Maria Zeee: We are live with Dr Ryan Cole. He runs the largest pathology lab in Idaho. 26 years experience in the Mayo Clinic. And is working with the Global Covid Summit and International Alliance Of Physicians And Medical Scientists. Thank you so much Dr Cole for joining us today.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: It’s an honour to be with you and with your listeners. So hopefully we can enlighten some people on some important matters.

 

Maria Zeee: Yes I think we have a lot to unpack here. So you started speaking last year about the increase in cancers. That you were seeing in your clinic. Let’s start there. Let’s talk about that increase. Has that further increased now?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yes. I mean, I’m still seeing it at the same degree increased in the different age groups above yearly averages. So like you mentioned I’ve been doing pathology for 26 years. I’ve seen about 500,000 patients in my career. So I know the annual patterns in certain types of diseases. So when the shots rolled out, it was interesting that correlating with each decile of age group coming downward I would start to see a bump up in certain types of cancers, which was very concerning.

 

And the first signal I saw was endometrial cancers, cancers of the uterus. And normally I would see maybe two of those a month, two, or three a month. And I was starting to see two, or three per week! Which was very, very concerning. And then I started seeing melanomas of the skin at younger ages. And those ended up being thicker.

 

And it was interesting, because I knew the clinics I was serving – we weren’t as tightly locked down here as many states and countries. So I know those clinics stayed open. So it wasn’t the excuse that:

 

“Gosh! Nobody could get into the doctor and these were all a delayed diagnosis.”

 

So yes, I’m still seeing that uptick. I’m still seeing shockingly odd cancers at shockingly odd ages! And so that pattern persists. And we’re starting to understand more, and more, the mechanisms as to why those are happening.

 

Maria Zeee: So could you talk us through those mechanisms and why we are seeing this uptick in cancer?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Certainly. So one of the biggest problems is the spike protein persists in the body after the shots. And so the synthetic RNA, we know from a Stanford study a couple months ago came out that showed the synthetic RNA doesn’t break down like scientists had hoped and predicted.

 

So with that synthetic RNA still in our lymph nodes spike is persistently produced. That spike protein can bind to two very important genes. One is called p53. And I call that one the “Guardian of the genome”. So goes your p53, it’s a tumor suppressor gene. So basically it’s a family of genes that keeps atypical cells from proliferating. But when that p53 gene is bound, those regulatory pathways are no longer regulated. Now cancer can take off.

 

And then another very important one that a lot of women I know are aware of is the BRCA gene. And that’s very responsible for breast cancers and ovarian cancers. We also know that that spike protein can bind to that BRCA receptor.

 

Now in addition to that the spike protein can get into our T-cells. And all day long we have little rips and tears in our DNA. And we have little zippers that zip it back together. Well when the spike gets into the nucleus of our very important White blood cells, the T-cells, then that DNA repair can’t happen anymore. The spike blocks that from happening.

 

And then there’s also another DNA repair mechanism that’s blocked. It’s a gene, MSH3, MSH2, MSH6. And again we know that if you have those in the wrong ratio that can also lead to cancer pathways. So I mean, this is just the tip of the iceberg of the different things that can induce that into happening.

 

And the problem is that synthetic spike is making spike that persists in the body. We know in the Stanford study at least 60 days. A colleague in Germany, Dr Burkhart found spike deposited in a post-vaccinated patient 128 days at time of autopsy. So this spike protein, the Salk Institute showed that it’s a toxin. That it can induce the same bad effects that the virus, the viral infection can produce itself.

 

Now the difference is, if you get the viral infection your body can clear the infection within about a week, or so, if you’re reasonably immune competent. Now you have the virus gone, you have the spike gone for the most part, and you’re not prone to these chronic pathways from a synthetic spike circulating constantly.

 

[05:26]

 

So that’s kind of the concern. A natural infection from this engineered virus, you know, no matter what it was a virus that was tinkered with, in a laboratory setting. But if you have the whole virus and you mount a whole immune response then you’re generally okay. If you get excess amount of spike from these shots then that becomes a very big concern.

 

Maria Zeee: Dr Cole, a lot of people who are immuno-compromised – because you mentioned there if your immune system’s fairly strong you can overcome the virus – a lot of people who are immuno-compromised have been told to go and get these injections. And what we’re seeing is that it’s much worse for them when they do. But they were worried that they wouldn’t be able to survive the virus. Can you talk to those people in particular?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah. I know and see this is frustrating. Because that’s so anti-science to say:

 

“Gosh! Your immune compromised. So we’re going to give you a shot, to an immune system that’s immune compromised, and isn’t going to be able to mount an immune response, even to a vaccine.”

 

So a lot of immune compromised people are actually very vitamin D deficient, which is interesting. And any individual that’s vitamin D deficient can’t mount a good immune response from any vaccine, for that matter!

 

That’s why we saw so many people in care homes, the elderly, pass on and be so susceptible. The majority of those individuals are vitamin D deficient most nursing homes around the world don’t supplement them, which is kind of foolishness.

 

But anyway those immune compromised individuals, … And I have an oncology colleague down in Texas and he showed that none of his patients that were immune compromised chemo patients mounted any immune response to the shots at all.

 

So again this is another international problem with the suppression of early treatment. Of all the patients I treated with early treatment, you know, be it Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin phenol vibrate, budestinide, steroids, anti-clotting agents, not a single patient I treated went to the hospital, not a single patient I treated passed on. About half of my patient cohort was elderly, multiply comorbid, individuals.

 

So even in those immune compromised individuals if you can treat them with something that inhibits the binding of the spike to the cell which many of those agents I just listed do, then their viral load goes down.

 

And a very simple one especially with Omicron is just mixing some iodine drops in some salt water, and the moment you have a symptom you start doing some nasal rinses and, or, gargling. And that will kill the virus straight away! Very, very, very quickly. So these immune compromised individuals, it’s foolishness in medicine to say we don’t have early treatment for a disease. It’s akin to me saying:

 

“Gosh, you have a broken leg with a bone sticking out! In two weeks when it’s gangrenous why don’t you come in? And then we’ll consider treating you.”

 

Gosh we’d never do that! Or a woman comes in with a urinary tract infection. I would never say:

 

“Gosh, why don’t you just go home. When it reaches up into your kidneys, and you need to be in the ICU, then we’ll treat you.”

 

Nonsense! Early treatment has always been the standard of care in Medicine. So be it an immune compromised patient, be it a healthy patient, no matter what, you treat you treat any and every disease early! If you want to have a good outcome.

 

Maria Zeee: What we’ve also seen. And I want to know whether you and your colleagues have seen the same, is people that were in remission, people who had been undergoing chemo, were doing better, got the shots. And now, all of a sudden they have aggressive cancers.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah. And that’s a huge, huge concern I have. I just got back from some travels Paris, France, Miami, Houston, LA. But everywhere I went I had doctors come up to me:

 

“Yes, I have a friend, a brother, a cousin, a colleague, they had a stable stage one cancer of this type, or that type, and after the second, or the third shot, it took off like wildfire!”

 

Some people call them “wildfire cancers, turbo cancers”. But they go from stage one to stage four within a couple of weeks of that second, or third, shot. Again this goes to that spike disregulating immune pathways and normal repair mechanisms.

 

And even more importantly what we’re seeing, you have White blood cells that keep cancers in check. Most of those are your T-cells, your killer T-cells, your natural killer cells. And you and I, sitting here, anybody listening, has about 30 billion T-cells in circulation right now in your body. And a good percentage of those are killer T-cells.

 

[10:14]

 

Their job is to go around, … I call them kind of the “Marines” of your immune system. They’re shaking hands with all your cells all day long, saying:

 

“Friend, or foe? Friend, or foe?”

 

And if a cell is atypical, your body, that T-cell will throw a little hand grenade and blow up that atypical cell, or an infected cell, or even a bacteria. So these Marines surveilling your body all day long, that’s what they’re doing.

 

Now after the shot, unfortunately, there’s a couple of receptors in our body. They’re called “toll-like” receptors, like a toll road. And when these receptors are down regulated, these pattern receptors, the T-cells, are kind of waiting for instructions, or a signal. And they don’t have that. And toll like receptor number three and four are responsible for the entrainment of T-cells to fight cancer. And these T-cells end up being like drunk marines going back to the barracks and snoozing. Now you don’t have these marines on guard. Now, they’re not circulating, or they just don’t even know how to react to that friend, or foe signal.

 

And. So these wildfire cancers normally would be kept in check by this population of T-cells just fighting it off as constantly as possible. And that’s why a lot of cancers can be kept in check for many years, because you will constantly have your immune system trying to fight it off. So when you have a weakened immune system. Because the spike protein, the shots, the mRNA, the lipid nanoparticle itself, all these toxic agents turning off that immune response. Now the cancer says:

 

“Hey! I have nobody fighting me off!”

 

And then the cancer starts doubling very quickly, and then can spread very quickly.

 

Maria Zeee: I think this answers a lot of questions for people who, because they see their family members now who were recovering. And there was hope. And, all of a sudden, it’s now, so aggressive in their bodies. So is there anything that can be done to reverse this? To treat this?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: That’s a good question. I wish I had an easy answer for you and I don’t. The key is trying to turn the immune system back on after it’s been suppressed.

 

I mentioned that Stanford study. We don’t know, there’s not a single study yet showing when the body stops making the spike protein from the synthetic mRNA. Not one study.

 

The Stanford study stopped at 60 days. There was a Journal of Immunology study that showed at four months, spike was still circulating in exosomes. You know, similar to Dr Burkhart’s autopsy study, 128 days there. Dr Bruce Patterson. In one of his studies showed spikes still circulating in pac-man cells in your blood, monocytes, CD16 monocytes. So we know that spike is persistent for a long time. We know it inhibits so many important immune pathways.

 

Vitamin D levels are critical. I’d say vitamin D is like the conductor of your immune system. If you have vitamin D and normal levels you have this [word unclear] conductor of a symphony that brings sections in and out appropriately. If you have low vitamin D your immune system is like the mosh pit at a punk rock concert. [chuckling] So, it’s so important to have vitamin D in normal levels.

 

A lot of individuals are deficient in trace minerals. Selenium will activate your the cell activity. Selenium, about three, or four Brazil nuts a day. If you like eating Brazil nuts, that’s a very good source of natural selenium is. A little bit of zinc just enough not too much, kind of the Goldilocks effect. Zinc will activate your T-cells. A little magnesium at bedtime is very good for mobilizing your vitamin D and also other enzyme pathways.

 

Cutting out the sugar, the high fructose corn syrup. You know, those will disregulate your immune system. So the closer you can get to eating close to nature and then supplementing as needed. We already live kind of in a toxic food jungle of bad things that get put into the body.

 

Sleep is critically important for your immune system. The more your rest you get, appropriately seven, eight hours a night, then your immune cells are stickier, literally stickier! And they can talk to each other. If you don’t get enough sleep your cortisol levels are disregulated, and then your immune response is disregulated.

 

So. I mean, those are a few things one can do. The honest problem is we just don’t know when the body stops making this spike, and continues to drive some of those cancer pathways. And what I’ve heard from many oncologists I’ve talked to is the normal chemotherapies, or the normal treatments they do, the cancers aren’t responding as usual.

 

[15:08]

 

There’s a couple other things. It’s interesting, because Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, there are multiple anti-cancer studies for both of those medications. And there’s another drug that I’ve taken for three years for chronic mononucleosis. But it’s good for a lot of autoimmune conditions and that’s called low-dose naltrexone which can be compounded by a pharmacy. And it also helps modulate your immune response your T-cell response.

 

So there’s a lot of, again, off label, out of the box, super safe, long proven modalities, especially when the cancer isn’t responding to the traditional allopathic type therapies.

 

Maria Zeee: You mentioned something there that that your colleagues were seeing that the cancers weren’t responding in the normal way that they would to treatment. What do you mean by that question.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well normally, … So we’ve studied certain cancers long enough that we know many of them are going to respond. You know, say breast cancer will respond to certain hormonal therapies and a couple other chemotherapies.

 

But a big part of those chemo reactions is working hand in hand with your immune system. So even though the chemical is there, some of the pathways to get those chemicals to the cells, and, or once those cells are injured by the chemo, then it’s kind of a one-two punch of your immune system coming in and mopping up those cancer cells. So for whatever reason, even though the chemo is being given, the body isn’t responding in a way that it normally would, saying:

 

“Okay, we got this first dose to knock down the first line of the cancer cells, now my immune system should come in knock down the second line and mop up the debris of the cells that have been killed.”

 

And our immune system is being disregulated enough by the chronic toxic present of the spike protein, that again, those cells are equivalent to the Marines drunk in the barrack. They’re just not on the battlefield doing what they’re supposed to do. And so it’s that augmented effect of having not only the chemo but the immune cells working together. And I think that’s part of the reason why we’re just not seeing that effect. We’re just not seeing those cancers respond the way they normally would to some of those therapies. And I think that’s why these cancers are taking off so much faster.

 

I mean, I’ve heard of individuals that had stable stage one cancer and were dead two, or three weeks later. And I mean, that’s unheard of with a lot of the cancers that I’ve seen over my career and diagnosed! Because the progression of, … Certain types of cancers we call them indolent, or smouldering, where you just look at it and go:

 

“All right, you’ve got a lot of life ahead. We can keep the cancer in check. You’re going to do fine.”

 

And certain ones, certain even low-grade lymphomas, or leukemias, all of a sudden transform to high grade. And again, we’ve just disregulated enough of the gene pathways that I think we’ve made a big mistake internationally!

 

And I don’t mean to sound alarmist. I’m hopeful. We’re not seeing it in everybody, that’s the good news. Hard to explain why, other than there are multiple facilities making the shots. And I think some of them have different quality control practices than others. So I think some doses may be lower than others.

 

And some it may just not even be effective doses at all. If you see where people were lined up in stadiums and those little vials sat out in the hot sun, and probably degraded to where nobody got toxic anything! Because by the time they got a shot it was mush!

 

So who knows? I mean, it’s not everybody. There may be certain genetic subtypes of individuals that are more predisposed. There’s multiple things that it’s going to take us years to study and find out.

 

Maria Zeee: I was just about to say. This is going to take years to answer. That there’s no quick fix to this. And thank god for the vials that were sitting out in the sun that aren’t toxic to people. If that’s the case! [chuckling] seriously.

 

I wanted to ask you what other problems is this immune suppression causing in individuals? We know about the cancer. We’ve seen the DOD data about miscarriages. We’ve seen so much data coming out. But what else are we seeing?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, one of the important ones is reactivation of latent viruses. So again due to those immune suppressive effects and those toll-like receptors I mentioned. Toll-like receptors number seven and eight, those are responsible for keeping viruses in check.

 

[19:56]

 

So the other thing we’re seeing is reactivation of mononucleosis, herpes family viruses, human papilloma virus. So I’ve seen an uptick in human papilloma viruses in pap smears and cervical biopsies. Which leads to an increase in cervical cancers as well.

 

There was a really good paper out of the Netherlands on the Pfizer shots by Dr Fossa et al. And that one showed, and the conclusion in that paper was there’s a concerning disregulation of the innate immune system. That’s your dendritic cells, your macrophages, and T-cells. Those are the ones that keep viruses in check. Those are the ones that keep cancers in check.

 

So just as much as we’re seeing activation of cancers. We’re also seeing activation of so many other viral families. I find it interesting that in the summer here in the States when the shots started rolling out in the kids, all of a sudden we had an RSV outbreak, Respiratory Syncytial Virus. And off season, the wrong time of year, in the summer. Well, it’s, because kids were getting their shot! And what did it do? It suppressed them. And they’re even in the Pfizer data dump, I think it was two weeks ago, they admitted:

 

“Yeah, well after you get the shot you’re immune suppressed for at least a week, or two.”

 

Which is exactly when everybody after their shots started getting Covid.

 

Maria Zeee: Correct.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: So the shots we knew, well, I knew it early on when the data started coming out. Every time a shot would roll out you’d see a peak in Covid cases wherever in the world that was. So that’s the other concerning finding.

 

And this is important too, because people with Long Covid and, or Long Covid-like symptoms after their shots, their doctor really should be checking them for reactivated herpes family viruses. I have a colleague down in Texas he says anywhere from six to eight out of ten patients post shot that are coming in with fatigue are testing positive for reactivated mononucleosis, Epstein-Barr virus number four.

 

And. I mean, there are some treatments you can do. I keep mine in check on and off. I’ve suffered chronic fatigue for many years. But there are things one can do. But you can’t find that for which you do not look. So I just like to make people at least aware, gosh if you’re feeling that chronic fatigue, make sure you get an appropriate reactivated microbe panel.

 

I don’t know how prevalent Lyme disease is down there in Australia. But I know here in the States many regions people who have chronic Lyme, they’ll get reactivated Lyme disease, and many other microbes. So that’s the other concern.

 

And then you pointed out as well the DMED [Defense Medical Epidemiology Database], the military database. A huge concern that I have is the neurologic conditions. Increase in multiple sclerosis, which can be Epstein-Barr related. By the way. About 80 percent of cases have high titers of Epstein-Barr. Tremorsc seizures, neurocognitive decline. So many things of that nature.

 

And. This is why the shot is more dangerous than the virus now. So the virus before, when it was the Alpha Delta variant, original Wuhan variant, the spike would split. You had a S2 and an S1 subunit. And that S1 would split off and go into circulation cause clotting. That S1 could land anywhere in the body across the blood-brain barrier.

 

Now the shot is made for that original Wuhan spike. The shot is made for a virus that went extinct in humanity over a year ago! The Wuhan variant doesn’t exist! They have not modified these shots whatsoever!

 

With the Omicron variant it acts more like a cold. Because the mutation in that spike doesn’t allow for the S2 and the S1 to split apart as much. So you end up with more of a whole spike subunit instead of this split subunit, S1 and S2. Which means we’re seeing less clotting with Omicron. We’re seeing less severe disease and hospitalization with Omicron.

 

But where are we seeing this severe disease, and where are we seeing the clotting? From the shots!

 

Maria Zeee: From vaccinated people.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, from the shots proper. And that’s the problem now. The shot is more dangerous than the virus from a scientific point of view.

 

Maria Zeee: I want to go into this genetic clotting disorder and mystery blood clots that you’ve recently been speaking about.

 

But before we do, I just really want to clarify. What is “Long Covid”? We hear this term, what is it?

 

[24:40]

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well, it’s a constellation of findings. It’s not the same thing in any given individual. An important aspect of the fatigue and the persistent feeling that you’re still sick, a lot of that comes from. Also this is one I didn’t mention yet, is the damage that the spike can do to our mitochondria. The mitochondria is the powerhouse of your cell. So you have tons of mitochondria in every cell in your body.

 

We know in neurologic tissue from a study out of Poland they show that spike can get into the cell, can get into the mitochondria and then what’s called the “electron transport chain” it down regulates cytochrome C, which is the beginning of the pathway that goes all the way down to ATP, which is the energy for your cell. So it’s basically respiration at the individual cellular level. So it’s really weakening and knocking out a lot of mitochondria.

 

So that fatigue, that brain fog, the inability to just day-to-day function at the level one had before it’s, because it’s like throwing sand in your gas tank basically, or petrol tank, or whatever you call it! But it’s inhibiting full combustion at the cellular level for your cells to produce the normal amount of energy. So that’s one pathway. Again reactivated viruses causing fatigue, that’s another pathway. This spike protein is such a sneaky little thing that can cause so many symptoms, and so many diseases!

 

Long Covid isn’t the same between any given two individuals per se. So and this is where it’s important for a doctor to be caring, astute, and listening. Because there are different things they need to test to see which of these many different pathways may be happening in these patients that are chronically suffering.

 

Maria Zeee: When I spoke to Dr Robert Malone last year he said that what they were seeing was that the spike was going into the body and potentially activating things that were dormant. Things that would have never been a problem for individuals.

 

And now, all of a sudden you had a flare-up of, like you said, maybe herpes, or things that people would have normally been able to fight off. And I think you’ve explained that process to us. But it would be amplified from the shots themselves, rather than Covid. Correct?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Correct. And again, if you get Covid most people that are immune competent clear that virus within about a week, within about seven days there’s no whole virus left in our body. When I had Covid, Covid was three days for me. You know, did I take some early treatment? Sure. Most people that are immune competent clear that very quickly.

 

So to your point you’re absolutely right. And Dr Malone and I are good friends, and we talk about these mechanisms very often. And even certain micro RNA arrays that are getting messed up, G proteins, all sorts of mechanisms. If we had never introduced this shot into the body most people wouldn’t be having these problems.

 

And the answer is don’t get another dose of a toxic spike! So if you’ve taken one, fine. If you’ve taken two, I’m not here to judge anybody. But as a scientist now knowing the mechanisms, I’m here to say the third shot’s not going to do anything for you other than cause harm. A fourth shot’s not going to do anything for you other than cause harm. Because the shots aren’t formulated for the virus that is present.

 

The virus that’s present is completely mutated enough that the shots don’t cover it. In fact, we’ve seen data out of the UK showing that the body has a two to five times increased risk of getting sick from Omicron if you got your second, or third shot, than if you hadn’t!

 

So Wuhan is extinct. These shots are expired! These are scientifically expired! They don’t do anything now other than cause all these conditions, you and I have been talking about.

 

And that’s my concern as a scientist. Do I get cancelled, or censored, or fact-checked? You bet! All the time! Do I care? No! Because I say look I have the data, I have the papers, I have the peer reviewed material. If you disagree with me, wonderful! I don’t need some high school opinion maker that’s paid by Facebook, or Reuters, or one of these big companies, to say:

 

“You’re wrong! I fact-checked you!”

 

I’m like:

 

“No. I’m the scientist that sees all this on a daily basis.”

 

So does Dr Malone, so my other colleagues at the Global Covid Summit. We see this. We’re reporting it. We’re publishing it. It’s happening! The shots are expired. They are going to make your body more prone to very bad outcomes!
We’re starting to see this as well. This is the other sad part. The all-cause mortality death from all causes is now going up, in those who have gotten the shots, compared to those who haven’t.

 

And we have this false construct in society that the vaccinated and unvaccinated. No. There’s the vaccinated, the Covid recovered, which is the majority of individuals. And then that handful of individuals that haven’t had Covid or a shot.

 

But this false dichotomy needs to go away. And that’s politically how they try to divide us. You’re either in this purity signaling group, or not. Nonsense! If you’ve had Covid your immunity is 13 to 30 times better than if you had a shot. And that’s data out of Israel, data out of Qatar. And then they say:

 

“Well gosh, if you had Covid get one, or two shots, it gives you, you know, super immunity!”

 

Nonsense! That’s about as equivalent as superman! It doesn’t happen! It actually can lead to increased adverse reactions if you’ve had Covid and then get a shot on top of it, because it leads to a hyper immune response that your body doesn’t know how to deal with.

 

So I’m kind of rambling. So you can redirect me if you want. But those are some additional thoughts.

 

[30:46]

 

Maria Zeee: No, this is really important information Dr Cole. Because we’re at a point in society where people don’t want the booster. They’ve had their one and two that the government sort of pushed them to have. Told them:

 

“You can’t eat unless you undertake, you know, participate in this medical experiment.”

 

Disgraceful! But most of these people have had Covid and recovered, or at least what they think is Covid, whether it really was, whether the PCR was, …

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Sure.

 

Maria Zeee: I won’t get into that. What I’m saying is most people have recovered. And they’ve been fine, and they know people that have had Covid and recovered. They know unvaccinated people who fared much better than those who’ve had the shots.

 

So this is why this information is so crucial. Because we are at a point where I think many are starting to realize this is not necessary anymore, despite the governments trying to drag out this crisis, which just isn’t a crisis anymore, at all.

 

I wanted to ask you there’s been reports of a spike in cervical ulcers in young girls.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: I saw that, yeah.

 

Maria Zeee: Is this also related?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, so and those are, I mean, there’s a genetic condition called Behcets’ disease. And these are Behcets like ulcers. And again, a lot of these different cutaneous ulcers and mucosal ulcers are generally driven by either a certain type of microbe, a certain type of anaerobic bacteria and, or, a virus. And again, is everybody getting them? No. Or is there enough of an uptick?

 

Yes. I mean, there’s almost 100 kids now, in the UK that have had hepatitis. And I think six, or eight of them have needed a liver transplant. Why is that? Spike protein is toxic! Spike protein suppresses other viruses. Now you’re more prone to hepatitis A, or C, or D, or B. And like in these young women and these ulcers, it’s plain and simple their body is immune suppressed. And certain organisms that can cause those ulcers aren’t being kept in check.

 

And so this is the insanity now of moving forward with any booster for anybody. Again the shot is expired, it doesn’t cover Omicron. The shot does suppress your immune system. And then the shot allows all these other microbes to wake up and cause, like you mentioned, these ulcers and young women, other autoimmune diseases, other neurologic diseases, etc., etc.

 

So public policy always lags science by months, and months. So we’re having these mandates by public health officials that have never seen a patient, never treated a patient. They have a Master’s in Public Health. They’re not clinicians. And so they think they’re doing something good, when they don’t understand!

 

I mean, I understand the deep mechanisms of genes, of genetics, of viruses, of immunology, of virology pathology. It’s what I do every day.

 

And when I hear these public health officials saying:

 

“No, get your shot!”

 

I’m like:

 

“Oh my gosh!”

 

And never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by ignorance. But they’re ignorant! That’s the problem. They don’t know the facts! They don’t know the hard science! And they don’t know that what they’re choosing to do and telling people to do.

 

And the people are waking up, like you said. The people are quite awake and aware. But these public policy makers are literally harming people! And when I went into Medicine I took an oath to first do no harm, “primo non nocere”. And that’s physical harm, psychological harm, financial harm. I promise not to harm human beings. So people say:

 

“Well, why are you speaking out? You should just be quiet.”

 

I’m like:

 

“Because I see society harming people!”

 

And it’s my duty, as a caring physician to step up and say stop it! This is wrong! This is scientifically wrong! It’s harmful!

 

And we don’t know the long-term outcomes. We don’t have that crystal ball. We’ve only been doing this for a year and change, with these shots. I can only imagine what we’re going to see long term down the road in terms of effects from this. And that’s what’s very concerning to me.

 

[34:52]

 

Maria Zeee: And speaking of long term we’ve seen data coming out of the UK and Canada. And I believe the US now as well, if I’m not mistaken, supporting the fact that after two shots there is a severe decline in the immune system. After three it’s particularly alarming! And now we’re talking about fourth and fifth doses even here in Australia.

 

So can you speak to us about what happens? Do we know what the percentage of decline in the immune system is? Do we know, is there data around that?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well. I mean, there’s some data that looks at that. And it depends on the individual I guess is the quick and the easy answer. Depends on the individual but the short answer is, if you’ve been poisoned the answer isn’t take more poison!

 

Maria Zeee: Of course.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: I mean, if I gave you a little arsenic on your eggs for breakfast this morning you may have a tummy ache and a little hair might fall out, but you’d probably recover and do okay. But if I said, you know, every eight weeks I’m giving you a little bit more arsenic on your eggs in the morning, eventually you’re dead.

 

Similarly, to that analogy, the spike protein, … Again Salk Institute, and many other studies, we know that spike is toxic. Why in the world would we continue to introduce a shot into the body that makes a toxic product, that spiked protein, that continues to suppress our immune system! And eventually that immune suppression.

 

Again the answer is, we have no idea when the body is going to stop making that spike. So why keep stacking spike, on top of spike, on top of spike?

 

And this is where it is absolutely criminal and shameful for any doctor, any health care agencies, any health system, any hospital, any public health official, anywhere in the world, to say any one more individual needs one more of these shots! They’re expired! Wrong protein! Wrong virus! Wuhan is gone. These are for Wuhan. Omicron is here. BA2 is here. XE is here. Completely different. Most people have natural immunity. To most people Omicron’s a cold.

 

We need to stop poisoning people! With a toxic spike that causes immune suppression, that causes cancer, that causes neurologic conditions, that causes infections of other types, that causes all sorts of bodily harm! It makes no sense, whatsoever, to say a shot is the answer in the middle of a pandemic! Early treatment is! Early treatment saves lives.

 

And then the double, triple, crime in all of this is that anyone would put any of this into a child’s body! We don’t know the long-term outcome to their fertility. We know that the lipid nanoparticle goes to the ovaries. We know there are a lot of base two receptors on the ovaries and the eggs. A woman is born with every egg she will ever have a lot of base two receptor there. What binds to that? Circulating spike protein! What does that lead to? Inflammation. And so any cell that that lipid nanoparticle goes into carrying that mRNA, that secondarily expresses the spike on its surface, is now an enemy to the immune system. And your body’s going to attack those cells.

 

Why would we do this to our children?

 

I mean, this is not an approved shot. These are all still experimental world-wide! They say there are quote “approved shots”. But if you look at their data they were approved like community here in the US, was approved on data through March 31st, before Delta ever appeared, before Omicron ever appeared. They got they got their biologic licensing agreement through data that was very old, and very irrelevant.

 

And these shots are causing harm to a lot of people! And there is no way we use our children as human shields and guinea pigs. When kids survive this virus statistically at a hundred percent anyway.

 

So if you have someone that’s surviving a virus at a hundred percent. And there’s a shot that is now all risk with no benefit, no reward, why would you put even one of those in the arm of a child? I mean, that would be like me saying in front of some public peace officer:

 

“Hey! I’m just going to shoot this person once with this bullet. I don’t mean any harm!”

 

You know, something’s as stupid as that! I would get thrown in jail for that. And we have health care providers around the world that are brainwashed into thinking they’re doing something good for a patient when they’re actually harming them.

 

We have government officials and public health officials mandating something that people don’t need. And actually harming them! This is where you’re absolutely right when you pointed out, people are waking up, because there’s no emergency! We see that, plain and simple in front of our eyes!

 

Are there a handful of individuals that are still weakened and frail? You bet! Should we have protected them from the beginning of all this two years ago? You bet!

 

Maria Zeee: With early treatment.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, with early treatment! Absolutely! Because it saves lives. Always has, always will.

 

[40:01]

 

Maria Zeee: I want to talk now about this genetic clotting disorder Dr Cole. I saw some footage with you and Steve Kirsch where you actually lifted up these mystery blood clots. What are they? It’s not the first that we’ve seen. We’re talking, how many feet coming out of people?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Three feet, four feet long, veins and arteries. So some patients get the shot. And then they’re short of breath, or fatigued, or lethargic. Usually what we think about is you’ll think of like a deep vein thrombosis in the leg. And then you’ll end up with a saddle embolus where somebody will quickly die from an embolus to the lungs.

 

What’s interesting about these is when the shots rolled out, just like I was seeing with some cancers, I was seeing interesting clotting conditions in skin biopsies. And then I had a pathology colleague down in Texas call me and say:

 

“Hey! I’m seeing a lot of micro clots in the GI tract!”

 

So we were seeing early on after the roll out, the clotting condition, even on the micro level!

 

Now these ones that I showed in front of the camera on that Steve Kirsch interview. And these are coming from morticians, and pathologists, around the country. And Dr Pretorius in South Africa has done some good studies on the mechanism of the spike protein. And so normally you have a lot of little clotting factors in the blood. And this little waterfall cascade, this triggers this, triggers this, triggers this, plus platelets, plus fibrin and thrombin, equals clot.

 

What Dr Pretorius showed is without all those little factors and without the platelets, if you put the spike protein into the blood it will cause all the blood proteins to clump into a clot. So that’s why these look odd. They’re really like firm and rubbery, because it’s a thickened clumped protein.

 

So in Alzheimer’s you hear about amyloid in the brain. Amyloid plaques in the brain. Amyloid is a unique type of protein that’s difficult to break down. And that’s what the spike is triggering in the human body. And so you’ll get basically this amyloid-like, or amyloid-esque clot that normally you have your plasminogen, this enzyme that will break clots down, … Because it’s not a normal clot, it’s not easy for the body to break it down. And that’s another huge concern! Again we have this unique toxic spike protein that bypasses all these other physiological processes of the human body.

 

And here we are two years later, or year and a half later, just learning about these mechanisms in the laboratory, and science papers, and research. These all should have been done long before any shot ever rolled out onto humanity! And instead we’re seeing people die suddenly from these clots blocking off circulation to the brain, or to the heart, or to the lungs, infarcting a liver, or a spleen, or an organ, a kidney. These are not normal clots. It’s a very unique type of protein deposited within these.

 

Maria Zeee: So to clarify. I just want to make sure I and the audience understand. The clots are happening, because of the spike. The spike again is the main culprit here. And are we saying that these amyloid clots that we see in Alzheimer’s patients, are we saying that for those who survive these clots that they could potentially end up with early onset Alzheimer’s, as well?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: That was another paper that just came out about a week ago showing the ability for these amyloid proteins to break off of the clot circulate and go to neurologic tissue. So that’s another potential concern. That was an animal study. But that amyloid again everything’s not these big clots. You’ve got the micro ones too. And that amyloid, a sheet of protein, can transmit and deposit in neurologic tissues. So that is a long-term concern.

 

Maria Zeee: And then these sort of larger clots that are killing people, are they restricted to one area, or are they could they happen anywhere?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: They can happen anywhere. And this is what was interesting, the morticians would find. Because normally when they would preserve a body, you know, they’ll find a vein, find an artery. And they’ll pump their preservative fluid in. They were finding that they couldn’t get the fluid to go in, because these clots were so thick and blocking off so many vessels!

 

So I have one patient where that individual had about a dozen of these large ones, anywhere from 12 inches to 48 inches. Literally, it’s like Iceman comes up in some Avenger movie and freezes everything! It’s just like freezing the blood into these tubes in certain patients!

 

So is it everybody? No, it’s not. But we still don’t know who’s genetically predisposed to this, versus others who aren’t. And it’s literally, … I mean, people demeaned me for calling these “the clot shot”, a year and a half ago, or I guess a year ago. And I’m like:

 

“Well, now I’m right!”

 

I didn’t want to be right! I don’t want to be right on any of these things I’m sharing with you! All I am, a pathologist. We’re the quality control of Medicine. We’re the observers. I’m a reporter. All I do is report what I see. I don’t cause the disease, I don’t prevent the disease, I don’t cure the disease. I report the disease!

 

So what I’m doing here is reporting the process. And I’m calling on my colleagues in the laboratories around the world to quit your silence and speak up. Because I have plenty of people that have approached me, that are also pathologists, saying:

 

“Hey, thanks for speaking out. I can’t say anything, I’ll lose my job!”

 

I’m like:

 

“Well, don’t make me the tall blade of grass! Join me!”

 

And that’s really what we need to end this narrative, and end this problem with all of these different things, is everybody to speak up! Because courage begets courage. And once some people wake up then more people wake up. And then this whole game is over. And then we don’t harm any more people.

 

But in the laboratory, I’m just reporting what we’re seeing. And these clots are a problem.

 

[46:21]

 

Maria Zeee: So with these clots is there anything that people can do preventatively, if someone has been injected?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well, it’s interesting. So one of them, the triggering mechanisms, there’s a receptor on the blood vessel linings, the red blood cells, as well as the platelets, called CD147. And that little protein marker is where the spike likes to bind. Well, guess what binds there and inhibits the spike? Ivermectin. That’s one of its about 20 mechanisms of action, that are not only antiviral, but also anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting. Another good anti-clotting agent is Hydroxychloroquine. One of the best anti-clotting agents of all is a normal vitamin D level. If you have a normal vitamin D level, above 50 nanograms per milliliter you’re far less inclined to clot! So everybody thinks:

 

“Oh gosh, I go out in the sunshine!”

 

Usually not during the hot peak of the day when you would be getting your normal amount. And in the spring and summer you can get adequate D. But in the fall and winter, the UVB rays bounce off of the atmosphere. You can’t synthesize D for several months in the winter time. People need normal vitamin D that inhibits clotting.

 

Now the primary clotting pathway for the virus itself is what we call the thromboxane A2 pathway. And the best inhibitor of that is plain and simple aspirin. Not too much! But just enough. So I’m again a big believer in the “Goldilocks effect” in life. Just enough, not too much.

 

So a baby aspirin every day, or every other day, is pretty harmless in terms of the human body. But it’s pretty helpful in terms of inhibiting that pathway from happening. If you’re going to get a shot make sure you’re doing something to inhibit clotting before you even get the shot.

 

And another one that’s really interesting that does break down fibrin quite well. There’s a traditional food in northern Japan called “natto”, which is a fermented soy product. And there’s an enzyme in that soy. It’s fascinating in that population, you don’t see a lot of deaths from heart disease, or strokes. And they live to a ripe old age. And that’s because in natto is an enzyme called nattokinase. And that enzyme is very prone to breaking down fibrin. So that’s just one other thing, one an individual can do.

 

As well as staying hydrated. I could put a needle in a hundred people’s arms right now and most people will be dehydrated. The more dehydrated you are, the more prone you are to clotting. So that’s just another thing to keep into consideration is. Just make sure you get adequate hydration during the day. I’m going to close my blind here. I noticed the sun’s peeking through.

 

Maria Zeee: Sure, sure. I’ll just speak to the audience for a moment. If you are watching this. And you have a loved one, or a friend or even if you meet a stranger that has been injected, encourage them to watch this and educate themselves, but also talk to them about these preventative measures from clotting.

 

I mean, like you said Dr Cole we’re not judging people that have done it. But we’re actually now, in the business of is saving lives and mopping up the devastating effects of these injections. And so it’s important to maintain our compassion for people in this time.

 

[49:43]

 

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Absolutely correct! Yes.

 

Maria Zeee: Do we know about natural blood thinners, like lemons, etc., are they things that can also assist?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: The closer you live in nature the better. So I mean, most Medicines actually come from nature until, you know, our modern era, you know, got into synthetic Medicines. There are so many things. The closer you can eat to the earth, I’m literally here on my organic farm right now. I have nine acres of veggies, I have 250 fruit trees, I have my lambs, and my cows out in my pasture. I try to live close to nature. And yes, there are plenty of things one can do.

 

Maria Zeee: Wonderful. I want to ask Dr Cole, if people want to follow you, you recently had the Global Covid Summit. Is that done now, or is that going to be a recurring event?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well it’s a recurring event. So if you go to globalcovidsummit.org, that’s usually where we’ll have our events. I know we have some down weeks as each of us in the group are kind of going in to different lecture circuits for the different next two, or three weeks. But then we’ll be back together in May sometime, as well as in June.

 

And usually at each one we try to bring what’s the most up-to-date science, what are the most up-to-date studies. Me personally, R as in Ryan R Cole, colermd.com. Which is very simple. I post some of my videos there. I’ll repost this there and share links. And then I get like frequently asked questions, you know, say to the clotting, or things like that, because I’ll get hundreds of inquiries per day and there’s only one of me.

 

Maria Zeee: Yes!

 

Dr Ryan Cole: With colleagues. So you’re probably thankfully Kelly connected us. But it’s so hard to get hold of me. I apologize.

 

Maria Zeee: It is! It’s okay.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: But when I do get a common question from about a hundred questions, then it’s easier just to convey that in one short synopsis for all those people. So I wish I could answer everybody. And like you mentioned we’re here to help people. This isn’t judgment. This is here’s the concerning factors. We need public policy to match what the science is. And we’re here to help people who have been injured and to prevent other people from being injured, absolutely!

 

Maria Zeee: You have some words of encouragement Dr Cole for those who are saying they’re desperately trying to wake up their loved ones. But they’re not listening.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Don’t give up hope. Don’t be judgmental. Be kind, be loving. Don’t forget we’re all in this human condition. Yes, this has been divisive. But we’re still all just humans. You can try, don’t force people, people don’t react to forcing quite well, quite too well. Just keep loving them. And they’re individuals they are going to make their individual choice. Hopefully you can help them be informed, so they don’t make a choice that’s going to harm.

 

So just remember to hug people! Remember to love your loved ones! Remember to laugh! Laughter really is the best Medicine, believe it, or not. Laughter releases nitric oxide. Not nitrous oxide! Nitric oxide in your circulation literally kills viruses!

 

Maria Zeee: Really!

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Right, really! Yep, laughter is the best Medicine. So let’s laugh!

 

And again, if you want somebody to listen to you make sure you listen to them. So hear their concerns. I try to be very balanced in what I do. If somebody opposes my thought I say:

 

“Great! Wonderful. Present your thoughts to me. So I can process it.”

 

And then, if I have an answer that’s different, at least the other individual has been heard. You can’t be heard until you hear someone else.

 

So I think it’s very important for all of us to get back around that campfire and listen to each other, whether we agree, or not. It’s so important to share. And again, we’re not always going to agree. That’s fine. But just having that voice and having that listening ear brings us back together as a human family. I think that’s so important.

 

Maria Zeee: And it’s something that we’re missing. It’s something that was really destroyed during the time of lockdowns. It’s something that social media has contributed really negatively to, as well, because it’s easier to connect through our phones. But that human contact is so crucial.

 

And I always say, someone who looks at my website Dr Cole might think what a crazy conspiracist! Right? But when you meet me in person. And you see the conviction in my eyes and you hear it in my tone, it’s a totally different thing. So we need to keep that human contact going in that care for our neighbour.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: We do. Absolutely we do! And that human contact. I mean, physical contact is so good for immune health. Giving that hug, being in proximity, and literally. I mean, sharing just our cloud of our own microbiome being in the physical space of each other is not a bad thing, it’s a good thing. In the sense that it trains our immune system.

 

And the real pandemic in my mind was fear. And they intentionally induced a fear into the people. And I’ll admit I was afraid for a hot minute for the first week, or two, until I really doubled down on my virology and immunology that I’d already studied. I’m like now, we don’t need to worry about this. And then it’s been trying to combat that fear for the last, you know, two plus years. Just anybody I could teach, I would teach. Because then they would go:

 

“Oh! I don’t need to be so afraid!”

 

I’m like:

 

“No you don’t.”

 

And so you’re right, just coming together in community in closeness. Lockdowns were evil. And they still are evil! Because they’ve accomplished absolutely zero! I like my colleague Dr Paul Alexander, he writes a lot at brownstone.org. And he has this one paper, “400 things we did and the studies that showed that nothing we did worked”. And including lockdowns. Lockdowns are nothing short of cruelty! They didn’t save a soul.

 

[55:48]

 

Maria Zeee: Dr Cole it’s potentially a conversation for another time. But I’ll quickly mention last night I interviewed Dr Tess Laurie. And we were discussing the WHO pandemic agreement. And we’re talking about giving an organization like the World Health Organization, who’s done nothing good for two years, power over every country’s constitution. This is going to supersede every country’s constitution.

 

And they’re talking about more measures, harsher measures, even use the word “punishment” for those countries who don’t go ahead with what they’re proposing for future pandemics! Could you just quickly comment on that? The risks of that.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, this is gravely important! Every citizen in the world needs to wake up to this right away. Because these international health regulations that they’re using literally to try to usurp the Constitution of any and every country. The WHO is owned by Pharma. 70% of its funding comes from Pharma. The rest comes from Bill Gates and China. And some of the nation donors.

 

The WHO spends more on travel than it does on disease. The WHO is an absolutely corrupt organization! And we need to stop! They need to go away! It’s not that we need to modify the WHO. No! It just needs to go away.

 

And we need to start a better, more ethical, health foundation. Dr Laurie would be, Tess would be a great leader of that, and World Council for Health. I’ll be with her in London next month at a meeting. And we’re trying to get the ethical doctors of the world together. Because we are not corrupted by Pharma money! That’s why we’re speaking out! We’re independent.

 

And the world needs to be aware of what you just said. And it’s not conspiracy. This is the WHO literally trying to become the power of the world, and to treat you with cruelty, and force you into Pharma drugs that you don’t need.

 

Maria Zeee: Yes, yes. Thank you for adding to that Dr Cole. I think it we really need global awareness around this. Thank you as well for your bravery, your courage, for being that person that other people look up to and saying, oh gosh! Thank you so much for speaking up! I encourage more to do it. Now the time really is now.

 

We’re at a crucial point in history particularly with these moves from the WHO. We can’t have this happen. And you’ve been silent for a couple of years you’ve been worried about your own skin, but really – I’m not talking to you, I’m talking to them – but really that time is over! You can’t worry about your own skin. This is about all of humanity and we need more people speaking up.

 

Dr Cole I’ll include those couple of links in the description. I’ll update it. And I’ll send you this. Please do share this interview far and wide! Subscribe to this Rumble channel, if you’re not already subscribed! Give this video a rumble, with a little plus in the bottom left-hand corner of the screen. And head to zeeemedia.com for all of my latest interviews.

 

Also a really quick plug to was media’s sponsor Dr Zelenko. There is a link down the bottom where you can get five percent off for his products.

 

And again, Dr Cole. Thank you so much for your time today, god bless!

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Thank you. You as well.

 

 

[58:57]

 

 

END

 

 

[Readers: If you see any errors (however minor), or ways to improve things, in the transcript, please let me know in the Comment section.

Also please share the link to this transcript, so others can benefit. Thanks.]

 

 

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Rumble Comments

 

79 Comments

 

PatrioticDuty01, 2 weeks ago
I recommend everyone to read Real Anthony Fauci by Bobby Kennedy Jr. On chapther 3 he explains how Ivermectin could have saved 80 percent of deaths Worldwide. This book have opened my eyes. I now know that, 90% of all medicine is not for anything else than profit for them. Low profit and effective medicines are bashed and marketed as ineffective because they go against their narrative and profit plans. One of them is wonder drug Ivermectin. I see that everyday people search for it but can’t find a place to obtain. You can get yours by visiting https://www.ivmcures.com
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56 rumbles

Libertarian99, 2 weeks ago
If you like that info you should check out dr Joel Wallach. In the year 1900 they knew how to cure 700 known diseases in livestock animals using only MINERALS & VITAMINS as they needed food prices to remain low. He says every disease is a NUTRIENT DEFICIENCY DISEASE as he promotes the 90 nutrients needed for health which he calls the MIGHTY90 and has been promoting it for almost 30 years now. Dr Wallach has always said your average MD is the 3rd worst serial killer due to their treatments and says antibiotics is the only thing he would buy from big pharma. Dr Wallach has brought the corrupt FDA to court 8 times and won as they tried to ban vitamins and minerals in the past. He says our bodies have divine intelligence to heal ourselves and all we have to do is give our bodies the raw nutrients to heal itself. Of course John D Rockefeller took over that industry around 1910 and called things that worked as QUACKERY. If people can’t get Ivermectin remember you can make your own HYDROXYCLORIQUINN at home by boiling the RINES of 3 cantaloupes & 3 lemons for 3 hours on simmer. Lots of info about that on YT. Heard Dr Sherry Tenpenny explain that too.
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22 rumbles

JMPG, 2 weeks ago
Thanks for info. I had seen recipes for HCQ on YT but was not sure about efficacy.
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6 rumbles

FordeeeJH, 2 weeks ago
On the same page as you. My friend has made hydro too with rinds of lemons and grapefruits. Big pharma have had their day.
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5 rumbles

Alohasunset, 1 week ago
Oh cantaloupes as well.. thought it was grapefruit. But yes this would be something we can all easily make to help us
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Libertarian99, 1 week ago
FordeeeJH & Alohasunset- Thanks for correcting that. Yes, Rines of Grapefruit and lemons.
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realKish, 16 hours ago
Love Wallace’s work, thanks for reminder. Is cantaloupe another name for grapefruit? Grapefruit peels contain quinine. I cook 3 grapefruit peels + 3 lemon peels (eat the flesh as normal). Cover with distilled water, cook in slow cooker six hours. Do not remove lid until cool. Can freeze portions – 2 tablespoons daily (1 x twice daily). Also, drink pine needle tea 3 cups daily) or dandelion leaf tea (3-4 cups daily) or star anise (ground like coffee), 2-3 cups daily. Blocks spike from docking on ACE2 receptor.
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1 rumble

yarnover128, 2 days ago
Using organic produce of course
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willowsong, 2 weeks ago
Great recommendation and fantastic book. Amazingly referenced. And every penny goes to support the work the Children’s Defense Fund does, which helps shed light on vax harms. He’s not taking a penny of profit. Really good man.
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14 rumbles

FordeeeJH, 2 weeks ago
Ive got the book at last now, I’ve been on the waiting list here in the UK to read the real Anthony Fauci. Kennedy is an amazing man, humanitarian and incredibly knowledgeable and compassionate. Thank God for people like him..he is heaven sent. I have listened to so many of his interviews now. I listened to him talk about the power of 5 last year. And although I don’t meet many people, I’m retired now, I spread the word now every chance I get. Great man.
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4 rumbles

baking0707, 2 weeks ago
Thank you. I will check it out
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5 rumbles

Endofdays333, 2 weeks ago
ya everytime they say covid death besides bs test of dying with should say , COVID/GOVERMENT MURDERS , PREMEDITATED,
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4 rumbles

PeterCryptoRoo, 2 weeks ago
Note: We do not ship Ivermectin products to Australia
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1 rumble

3rdGrace, 2 weeks ago
What has that got to do with anything?? Many countries have problems getting IVM, but we’re figuring out ways to get it!
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6 rumbles

PepeLePede, 2 weeks ago
I’m happy to report that I received two boxes of paste… for my horse of course.
7 rumbles

Corruptus, 2 weeks ago
Makes me sad. Everyone I know but my wife and kids took that crap.
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30 rumbles

willowsong, 2 weeks ago
My family and friends, too. Let’s hope all our loved ones got the saline or even the low-dose jabs.
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17 rumbles

NoAngelJustMe, 2 weeks ago
Thats what I’m hoping for to One daughter, my husband, the rest of my family and my friends all took it. And even 3 kids under 16.
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5 rumbles

yarnover128, 2 days ago
Red states got lethal lots of bioweapon…see reesereport
1 rumble

DaisysMum, 2 weeks ago
It is hard when even my brother and his young girls have all been given the clot shot. All my friends who are in the older age group. Heck apart from myself and the OH are shot. I hope it’s not going to be so lonely in 5 years time.
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9 rumbles

FordeeeJH, 2 weeks ago
We all need to keep hope and faith in all of the credible doctors, scientists desperately working to find an antidote. Go to The World Council for Health, you should find Dr Tess Lawrie, Dr Peter McCullough and lots of other high profile names. There is advice on how to detox metals etc, like Zeolite, NAC. It won’t remove all but it will help a lot. And vitamin D of course. I take so many now I rattle! I didn’t take the jabs cus I didn’t think they could have possibly explored interactions of this wonder vax with different medications and med conditions (as I have a few) but I am convinced I have high levels of metals myself even without the jabs. I am currently trying to get off opioid meds and other prescription meds. Point is we may all have a Health journey to face but now we know who are real enemies are. Big pharma and our Govs. Find our real allies now. We all in this together, from here in the UK to Aus, NZ, US and all over the world. Take care all. X
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5 rumbles

NoAngelJustMe, 2 days ago
I feel you My husband and one daughter has taken 2 each and my parents and extended family 3 so far I worry about them and I am so concerned about their future. Scared to loose them sooner and lots of worries about their health as months turns to year’s. I hope they all have stopped believing in the jab’s now but I don’t know. They get mad at me when I try to tell them anything
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lightfromabove, 2 weeks ago
same here
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TechMom7, 2 weeks ago
Same here.
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LuckyRain, 2 weeks ago
I had Covid. I was sick for a week. I was fine and able to go back to work after that. Yes, I did NOT take this experimental injections! I just let my God Given immune system for me. . Thank you Dr. Cole and Mariazeee.
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19 rumbles

youwho, 2 weeks ago
Dr Robert Malone and Dr Peter McCullough both say “Give the jab to immune compromised and old or vulnerable people”. That is the reason I have never trusted them. I think he is being over generous in saying doctors are doing this in ignorance. If they are still that ignorant they don’t qualify to call themselves doctors.
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17 rumbles

Ronaldlees, 2 weeks ago
I think Malone thinks that mRNA tech is valuable, but the way it was done this time was bad, mistakes were made, and all we have to do is fix the mistakes, and then the tech will be great. That’s my opinion of his opinion, which I perceive by the way he delivers his information, and the nuance I seem to pick up from it. I think mRNA is bad, period, becuz there will always be mistakes, and they are too costly.
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7 rumbles

NoAngelJustMe, 2 weeks ago
No one should get the MRNAshots Nobody. They are not a vaccine at all! And the people who forces them on us know that!
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7 rumbles

GypsyinAus, 2 weeks ago
Can’t wait for this show….love this channel…Thankyou Maria.
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17 rumbles

ExBabylonian, 2 weeks ago
Amazing Interview big thanks to you both.
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16 rumbles

JackBurtonKBF, 2 weeks ago
Dr Cole is the man. Top fella and I’ve been listening to him since his first talk on HCQ. Brilliant guy.
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13 rumbles

Built4Purpose, 2 weeks ago
A natural blood thinner that is also known to heal arteries – a wee pinch of cayenne pepper every morning. My husband was told to do this 5 years ago, his blood is fabulous now, I do it as a maintenance thing.
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12 rumbles

2dgamemania, 2 weeks ago
interesting, i have a raw garlic clove once a day. Done wonders for me.
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3 rumbles

heatheram29, 2 weeks ago
Complete Hero!!
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11 rumbles

laurakeet, 2 weeks ago
I love this guy. He is so full of truth.
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10 rumbles

Applesewer, 2 weeks ago
I really like your interviews Maria Zeee. You ask good, common sense questions.
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9 rumbles

joanie333, 2 weeks ago
Thank you Maria, for having such wonderful guests. Ryan is such a heart-felt, noble, empathic, honourable man! Very good information for everyone.
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9 rumbles

lightfromabove, 2 weeks ago
I would like you to ask these popular doctors about nano tech observed by microscopes… they never mention it, never explain it, so what are the others seeing with microscopes???? normal stuff or not? It bugs me nobody like Malone, Cole mention that???
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7 rumbles

Hedva, 2 weeks ago
Listening to Drs Corrie Madej and Lee Merrit on rumble, borax scrubbing was mentioned to remove nanoparticles.
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2 rumbles

HBGdave, 2 weeks ago
Thanks. Interesting and nice to hear such good advice. Don’t get the boosters, it is simply insane to do so.
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7 rumbles

fitnessrocker1, 2 weeks ago
These are smart people who created this poison vax..it is doing exactly as intended…helping to mass murder the gullible and venerable.
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6 rumbles

FatherCorapiCatholicChannel, 2 weeks ago
The jab is a killer, my cousin who was healthy was conned into getting the jabs, a few weeks after her 2nd jab she couldn’t breath, rushed to hospital was told she miraculously developed stage 3C ovarian cancer. She was so sick, her body kept filling up with fluid, so the hospital decided to try a small amount of chemo in the hope that helped, within a week she was dead. I have no doubt they know the jab caused her sudden cancer & death, but will remain silent. This jab is the perfect murder, it is genocide.
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6 rumbles

TechMom7, 2 weeks ago
I am so so sorry.
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3 rumbles

FordeeeJH, 2 weeks ago
So very sorry for your loss. Its absolutely shocking. Crimes against humanity. This time Nuremberg trials should ensure all of those guilty should be punished and not rewarded by a new life and job else where, so they can repeat their crimes. No compensation for your loss but it will hopefully one day help you some.
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3 rumbles

Contora78, 2 weeks ago
Great interview!
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6 rumbles

justpassinthru5, 2 weeks ago
Thank you Once again an amazing show!
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6 rumbles

PatrioticTrumpet, 2 weeks ago
tremendous amount of well needed information. THANK YOU
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6 rumbles

pickonme, 2 weeks ago
My concern is Doctors that promote this vaccine for elderly and compromised people…. in other words I read that as “LET THEM DIE”. IF you listen to many of these Doctors who are “against” the vaccine… they STILL promote it for our most vulnerable which I see as VERY HYPOCRITICAL! This vaccine is “DEADLY TO ALL WHO TAKE IT…… PLEASE NO ONE TAKE THIS VACCINE!” EVERY PERSON WHO PROMOTED THIS VACCINE IN ANY WAY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED FOR MURDER!
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5 rumbles

SaraSamec, 2 weeks ago
Such an interesting and informative interview and adorable doctor!
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5 rumbles

AEtherEMF, 2 weeks ago
https://theuniversalantidote.com SARS CoV2 air-infectious-particle not proven to exist, a S-Protein is a poison NOT the spiked TV ball virus delusion, Multi-Poisons are in WW3 war theatre, Synthethic S-Proteins only one, eg tests & jabs, more synthetic mRNA creations in LNPs,, graphene, Ethylene Oxide, Siver Azide, nano-tech, chemtrails, heavy metals RF Microwave Radiation antennae exposure, all sorts 177 health/science institutions globally all failed to cite even 1 record of “SARS-COV-2” purification, by anyone, anywhere, ever – As of February 25, 2022 – https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/68-health-science-institutions-globally-all-failed-to-cite-even-1-record-of-sars-cov-2-purification-by-anyone-anywhere-ever Downloaded insilico [computer] from China to manufacture jab potions because TV-virus-particle real-world does not exist – www.cormandrostenreview.com ***DOWNLOAD: The world must go to —-> www.bit.ly/awcevidence <—- download all pdf’s and videos. All the evidence the world needs to see to understand the COVID19 SARS-CoV-2 LIE will be found. Learn difference between legal & lawful ‘jurisdictions’, watch first x4 simple website foundational knowledge videos. —-> www.awarriorcalls.com – Livestreams —> https://rumble.com/c/c-443257 — https://www.brighteon.com/channels/awarriorcalls No ‘TV virus’ but a ‘mass poisoning’ of many different types deployed, even hospital protocol order following fiscally incentivised.
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5 rumbles

the20percent, 2 weeks ago
Awesome as always! Thank you!
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5 rumbles

iskwewak, 1 week ago
I learned about SaNOtize almost a year ago. It’s a nitric oxide nasal spray. That has been suppressed to the masses. It was invented in Canada. Did great in all the trials. Killed covid and varients in 2 minutes what more do we want?!!! With no side effects; so just more BS that our government is not looking after our health(we must), they’re not working for us. Nitric oxide has been used on premies for forever to prevent illness.
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4 rumbles

MollyBNC, 2 weeks ago
He’s an extraordinary man and doctor!
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4 rumbles

Endofdays333, 2 weeks ago
Faucie gates all governments and newscasters for DEATH PENALTY! LETHAL INJECTION!
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4 rumbles

3rdGrace, 2 weeks ago
Where is “doctor” Ruby, ranting about doctor Cole’s tie? Ugh!
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4 rumbles

willowsong, 2 weeks ago
She’s actually equivalent to a doctor–all the same prescribing rights, etc. But she hangs out with disinfo agent Stew Peters, so I no longer give her credence.
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1 rumble

pickonme, 2 weeks ago
WILLOW….. STEW PETERS BRINGS OUT A LOT OF REAL INFORMATION…. MAYBE YOU SHOULD STICK WITH DON LEMON AND JOY BEHAR.
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5 rumbles

DeeisFree, 1 week ago
Such a brilliant interview! As always from Dr. Cole; smart, intelligent, level headed facts. And as always from Maria; a smart, intelligent interview with well considered questions.
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3 rumbles

oxgmcx, 2 weeks ago
Here is another video featuring Ryan Cole … great work Maria! https://rumble.com/vxxcl9-saif-41-when-will-the-mantra-of-safe-and-effective-loose-its-appeal-among-t.html
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3 rumbles

PatrickJordan, 2 weeks ago
Steve Kirch sent us here. So the clotting is basically Mad Cow Blood. Prions in the Plumbing. The only thing that I’ve seen that can address amyloid (false word) tangles is to open the molecule with sodium laurel sulfate (coconut oil) lyse it with carboxylic acid (lactic/acetic) and then dissolve it with serine proteases. Other than black stone flower lichen that can deliver serine protease that I’m working on as a home remedy, I don’t know another source of that enzyme.
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3 rumbles

2dgamemania, 2 weeks ago
That last few minutes about the WHO is scary, i just hope they dont succeed.
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3 rumbles

SouWester, 2 weeks ago
Today in the Epoch Times: mRNA Vaccines Produce Persisting Spike Protein, Likely Causing Clots, Heart Inflammations, Cancers: Dr. Ryan Cole By Harry Lee and Roman Balmakov April 18, 2022 Updated: April 19, 2022 https://www.theepochtimes.com/mrna-vaccines-produce-persisting-spike-protein-likely-causing-clots-heart-inflammations-cancers-dr-ryan-cole_4407193.html?utm_source=morningbriefnoe&utm_campaign=Aomb-2022-04-19&utm_medium=Aoemail&est=OV6UbIue2EmssJV0BMs29NAcMaSoCWoYlUKyDBGrydySSpT0b9D4WrQWyndZRB0%3D
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3 rumbles

NelsonM67, 2 weeks ago
This video has also been made available and preserved on the uncensorable, permanent, distributed, peer-to-peer-network platform LBRY: lbry://@ZeeeMedia#3/Dr.-Ryan-Cole—Cancer,-Depleting-Immune-Systems-and-The-WHO-Pandemic-Treaty-vyss6t#6 *** and on the related web portal Odysee: https://odysee.com/@ZeeeMedia:3/Dr.-Ryan-Cole—Cancer%2C-Depleting-Immune-Systems-and-The-WHO-Pandemic-Treaty-vyss6t:6?r=HCLAAPgYMJ8zCjnm8BFRuxYCLTvj6CHe
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3 rumbles

AEtherEMF, 2 weeks ago
Mass multivector poisoning whats happening no SARS CoV infectious particle proven to exist, for that matter any other big-pharma-virus-infectious-particle, only deployed poisons do, eg spraying chemical DDT created Polio Explosive Evidence Virology a Global Lie NO COVID19 SARS-CoV-2 Exists – Part 1 – https://rumble.com/vzpdql-united-we-stand-with-police-genocide-is-occurring-part-1.html – 2h 19m 45s – 4Apr22 – A Warrior Calls Explosive Evidence Virology a Global Lie NO COVID19 SARS-CoV-2 Exists – Part 2 – https://rumble.com/vzpet7-united-we-stand-with-police-genocide-is-occurring-part-2.html – 1h 6m 23s – 4Apr22 – A Warrior Calls Rockefeller funded Pasteur Germ Theory Pt.1 | The scam of the century goes back to one man – https://www.brighteon.com/b14dba33-db7b-44dc-98aa-c9bf962e5bb3 – 12m 54s -Aug21 – FalconsCAFE Coronavirus Truths: Part 2: Koch’s Postulates Not Being Used at All for COVID-19, Why? July 3, 2020 – https://frankreport.com/2020/07/03/coronavirus-truths-part-2-kochs-postulates-not-being-used-at-all-for-covid-19-why Virology pseudo-science exposed – www.cormandrostenreview.com – insilico [computer model] downloaded poison – https://brandnewtube.com/@DrTomCowan
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3 rumbles

katana17, 2 weeks ago
Maria, here’s a transcript of your informative discussion with Dr Ryan Cole: Maria Zeee – Dr Ryan Cole – Cancer, Depleting Immune Systems, and the WHO Pandemic Treaty – Apr 18, 2022 – Transcript https://katana17.com/2022/04/24/maria-zeee-dr-ryan-cole-cancer-depleting-immune-systems-and-the-who-pandemic-treaty-apr-18-2022-transcript/ Also, some other Covid related transcripts.
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2 rumbles

realKish, 2 weeks ago
Great info, thank you! Not supplementing aged care residents with Vit D isn’t just foolishness, it’s by design. Just like the $2 and change allocated per main meal. Aged care facilities, unless you’re wealthy, are warehouses.The Rockefeller Medicine symptom suppression, disease management repeat business model was never about good outcomes – I think most ppl now understand that?
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2 rumbles

TechMom7, 2 weeks ago
This is the best interview I have heard all year!
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2 rumbles

johnbeaudoinsr, 2 weeks ago
This article has all the data necessary to cease all these faux-vaccines. Read this article or skim it and look at the data tables at the end. https://coquindechien.substack.com/p/c19-vaccine-the-cause-of-causes?s=w
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2 rumbles

JMPG, 2 weeks ago
Really good explanation by Dr Ryan Cole.
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2 rumbles

Watcher888, 2 weeks ago
Think about these neuro-degnerative people driving around like loose canons!
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2 rumbles

Jwtfuw, 2 weeks ago
Harry Vox, please beautiful Maria!!!
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2 rumbles

Ronaldlees, 2 weeks ago
As I mentioned on the Dowd thread, the bug is like doubling your pennies every day. On the first few days, and in the first week, you have small number of pennies. After 30 days of doubling your pennies, you have $5 million dollars worth of pennies. It’s the same with bugs. You can stop the bugs in the first week cuz they’re just like the few number of pennies. By day 30 you’re screwed (actually, well before that). So, purposely waiting til late in the game allowed the bugs to win the millionaire prize, and many of us to go broke or die.
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2 rumbles

Hedva, 2 weeks ago
Your metaphor of pennies is good. The red blood cells clump into penny rolls with progression of the blood contamination.
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2 rumbles

AEtherEMF, 2 weeks ago
Long Covid – poisoning of body by injection/ingestion of poisons &/or dose exposure absorption RF Microwave Radiation from Cell Towers / home WiFi, smart phones polluting the environment air cannot see or feel. RF connectable to any conductive particles in body. No suvery of RF Microwaves in environment to discount then your just guessing.
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2 rumbles

realKish, 15 hours ago
The lockdowns had nothing to do with Rona. None of the measures taken were. And the public health crew absolutely knew and know this. They are culpable.
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1 rumble

adjustyoursettings, 23 hours ago
Maria, you are a fantastic interviewer. Keep up the good work!
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1 rumble

Jonathanwalter, 2 weeks ago
which of the telegram channels in his name and photo is genuine..so many adds for cures on the big ones is suspicious.
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1 rumble

Evasic, 2 weeks ago
No offense but Maria kind of looks like a reptilian when she stares at her screen, broadcast on 240p… And if you’re schizophrenic, no this message is not from the pleyedians or Jesus telling you that Maria is a counter-agent working for constellation Draco or working working Satan. (I wanted to be inclusive of both manic Christians and new agers in psychedelic induced psychosis)
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-6 rumbles

SouWester, 2 weeks ago
It’s the look of shock and horror when hearing about how horrific something through empathy knowing that these horrific things are happening to friends, loved ones and people of the world. It’s Normal for Sane people with empathy that have the ability to critical think to have a look of horror, worry, sad, distraught all rolled into one when hearing more confirmations of how bad a situation is , and can put the pieces together of how enormous the deaths/injuries have been, will be, and that it all could have been prevented.
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7 rumbles

 

 

============================================

 

Unherd: Hello and welcome! Thanks for tuning in. You are watching lockdown TV. This is the pop up news and discussion program from Unherd. Throughout the lockdown weeks we have been bringing conversations and interesting people together to work out what’s going on and how we should be thinking about this current crisis.

 

I’m delighted that today we are joined, down the line from Sweden, by Dr. Johan Giesecke. Dr. Giesecke thank you so much for making the time today.

 

Prof Giesecke: My pleasure.

 

Unherd: If I can give you, help me a little bit here, but you trained originally at the London School of Tropical Medicine, is that right?

 

Prof Giesecke: No. It started before that actually. I used to be an infectious disease clinical doctor, and worked a lot with AIDS patients during the 1980s. And that’s what put me into epidemiology. And then I spent one year, or two years at the London School of Tropical Medicine in the early 90s. And then I came back to Sweden. And then I became State Epidemiologist for Sweden. Which means having control over all the infectious diseases.

 

Unherd: Which is the job Anders Tegnell apparently has?

 

Prof Giesecke: So, I actually hired him 20 years ago. And then I was his boss, and now he’s my boss. But he’s working actually quite well.

 

Unherd: And you then became Chief Scientist at the European Center for Disease Control?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yeah.

 

Unherd: And what roles do you have now? Who are you advising at the moment?

 

Prof Giesecke: I’m advising Anders [word unclear] the Swedish agency for public health, on a consultant basis. I’m retired really, so I’m doing this mostly, because it’s fun!

 

Unherd: And the World Health Organization? You were saying you’re on a call with them earlier today. Do you have an ongoing relationship, with them?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes. I’m advising the Director-General, together with a group of scientists. But that is unpaid, …

 

Unherd: Right.

 

Prof Giesecke: That is an honorary post.

 

Unherd: So having established your credentials, to talk with confidence on this topic, there’s been a lot of confused thinking, and a lot of confusion, about what the correct response to a threat such as Covid 19 should be. And I just wanted to begin by getting your kind of summary thoughts of how Sweden is differing from other countries, and why you think that is?

 

Prof Giesecke: The main reason is that we, or the Swedish government, decided early in January that the measures we should take against the pandemic should be evidence-based. And when you start looking around for the measures that are being taken now by different countries, you find that very few of them have the shred of evidence base!

 

But one, we know, that’s known for a hundred and fifty years, or more. And that is washing your hands is good for you and good for others when you’re in epidemic. But the rest like border closures, school closures, social distancing, there’s almost no science behind most of these.

 

Unherd: So, what is the current policy in Sweden? Social distancing is part of the policy, isn’t it? What is the regime that Sweden has gone with?

 

Prof Giesecke: The main difference to other countries is that there is no, you’re not locked up in your home. If you go out buy food, or groceries, or drugs, I mean, medicines, there’s no police to stop you in the street, and ask you what you’re doing here. That’s one thing. People are asked to stay inside. But there is no reinforcement, or enforcement of that. People do it anyway. So that’s one. We have the rule that a crowd cannot be bigger than 50 people.

 

Unherd: So I can still have an event for 49 people, if I want?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes. You could. And the schools, the upper schools are closed. Secondary education and universities are closed. Schools at age 15, 16, are open. What more do we have? The nursing homes, or houses for old people, are closed to visitors.

 

Unherd: So it sounds like it’s a moderate social distancing regime, then? At the moment.

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes. Sorry, it’s very similar to the one that the UK had before there was a famous paper by the Imperial College, by the modelers who made models for infectious diseases, that came out. And on the day after, you made a you-turn in England.

 

[05:00]

 

Unherd: Yes. So tell us about that. The original strategy in the UK and became known as a kind of “herd immunity” strategy. That is what it was called. And before we come on to talk about the Imperial Model, which I would like to talk about, is it correct to call it “herd immunity”? And is that the Swedish strategy?

 

Prof Giesecke: It’s not a strategy, but it’s a by-product of the strategy. But the strategy is to protect the old and the frail. Try to minimize their risk of becoming infected, and taking care of them if they get infected. And if you do that the way we’re doing it, you would probably get herd immunity then. But that’s a byproduct of it. It’s not the main reason to do it.

 

Unherd: So, you were saying then, so the initial UK response seemed to be similar to what Sweden is doing now. And you thought that was better?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yep! No, I think it was very good actually, and we were very pleased we were having the same policies as the UK. That gave some credibility to what we were doing. But then, Mr Johnson [Boris] made it made his hundred and eighty degree turn.

 

[Image — Britain’s Prime Minister Boris Johnson, right, and Health Minister Matt Hancock visit Bassetlaw District General Hospital on their General Election campaign in Worksop, England, on Nov. 22, 2019]

 

Unherd: Yes. So why, … There may have been other political factors involved. He was definitely under a lot of pressure, because lots of European countries were doing a formal lockdown at that point.

 

But the turning point did seem to be that Imperial College Report, which forecasted five hundred and ten thousand deaths in the UK, with a completely unmitigated approach. Two hundred and fifty thousand deaths with a mitigated approach, which is roughly equivalent to what you’re doing in Sweden. And then it suggests that it might be as few as 20,000 if we did a full suppression, or lockdown. What was your impression of that paper?

 

Prof Giesecke: I think it’s not very good! And the thing that they miss a little, is any models for infectious disease spread are very popular. Many people do them. They’re good for teaching. They seldom tell you the truth. Because — I make a small parenthesis — which model could have assumed that the outbreak would start in northern Italy, in Europe? Difficult to model that one.

 

And any such model, it looks complicated. There are strange mathematical formula, and integrals signs, and stuff, but it rests on the assumptions! And the assumptions in that articles could be heavily criticized. I won’t go through that, it would take to the rest of your day if I went through them all.

 

The paper was never published scientifically! It’s not peer-reviewed. Which a scientific paper should be. It’s just an internal departmental report from Imperial. And it’s fascinating! I don’t think any other scientific endeavor has made such an impression on the world, as that rather debatable paper!

 

Unherd: So, is your impression is that it was overly pessimistic?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes! Oh yes! Very much so.

 

Unherd: So what, I mean, I guess it comes down to some degree of speculation, but what’s your impression of how serious the disease is? And what kind of fatalities we would be looking at if we had a more moderate, or more mitigated approach?

 

Prof Giesecke: What’s the number of deaths in the UK now? I don’t know, I haven’t looked.

 

Unherd: Thirteen thousand. [As of Apr 25, 2020 the UK total is 20,319 — See chart at end.]

 

Prof Giesecke: So you’re getting close to twenty now?

 

Unherd: Yeah.

 

Prof Giesecke: But probably not 510 thousand! I think, … Well let me back one step. One thing that the model has missed is that it assumes that hospital capacity will remain the same. And that’s not what’s happening anywhere. I mean, in Sweden we tripled our intensive care capacity. And I think that’s happening in the UK as well. That the paper completely overlooks that. It cites that as a static thing.

 

Unherd: Hmm. So, just to sort of come back on this. The argument, what people watching will be asking, and I think what most people who support the lockdown would say, and that is the overwhelming majority of people in politics and in the media, is that the reason the curve is now flattening, and the numbers of deaths are gradually coming down on a daily basis, is because of the lockdown. And that shows that the policy has worked!

 

[Image — Professor Neil Ferguson of the School of Public Health at Imperial College London.]

 

And Professor Neil Ferguson who wrote the, or led the Imperial paper, suggest that he stands by his prediction that 500,000 odd people would have died had that not taken place. So if it wasn’t the lockdown that has been flattening our curve, what else could have been?

 

[10:01]

 

Prof Giesecke: One thing is immunity. The other is that the people who are frail and old, will die first. And when that group of people is sort of thinned out, you will get less deaths as well. The other thing is that when you start your “exit strategy”, that’s the favorite word now in all this public effort. The “exit strategy”. When you start that one, you’ll have some other deaths that we had already.

 

Unherd: Yes. So does that mean then that as the disease passes through the population, are we gonna see second and third spikes now, after this?

 

Prof Giesecke: It would be part of the exit strategy. Because the only way to check, if you taking away one restriction, and say we’ll open the schools again, as an example. How do you evaluate that? You have to:

 

“Oh! Numbers are going up again! More people are dying! We have to stop that! We have to pull back that softening, and try another.”

 

That’s what “exit strategy” will be in all countries! Countries will ease up a little on a restriction, see what happens over the next to-3 weeks:

 

“Ohh! It didn’t work very well! We will resume that! We try another restriction, we lift that one. Oh it worked!”

 

And so every country will have to do it that way. And that means that the increasing number of deaths will be part of checking which strategy should be kept or not.

 

Unherd: So what should we be doing instead?

 

Prof Giesecke: Well, you can’t! When I first heard — which is now six week ago — about the different draconic measures that were taken, I asked myself:

 

“How are they going to climb down from that one? When will they open the schools again? What should be the criterion to open schools?”

 

Did anyone, the strong and very decisive politicians even think about how to get out of this, when they introduced it? And I think that would be a problem for the UK, as well.

 

Unherd: So yes, let’s take as a comparison, the neighboring countries in Scandinavia.

 

Prof Giesecke: Yep.

 

Unherd: Because a lot of people are sending around these charts that showed that Denmark, and Norway, and Finland, have had much fewer deaths on a per capita basis. And in Sweden the rate is still climbing. And they take that as proof essentially that Sweden should have gone into a more draconian lockdown. What do you say to those people?

 

Prof Giesecke: Well first, that is not true for Denmark. Secondly, one important thing is that Norway, the nursing homes in Norway, are usually quite small. Whereas the nursing homes in Sweden are quite big, with hundreds of people. Which means that if you get the virus into one nursing home in Norway it will affect far fewer people. So that’s part of the reason, it’s not all the reasons.

 

For Finland the epidemic never really took off there. They started their measures before it had even started. But I think we should have this discussion a year from now! Let’s decide that. We do it on the 17th of April 2021! I think that the difference between countries would be quite small, in the end.

 

Unherd: So you don’t think that the severity of the these intervening measures are gonna make that much difference?

 

Prof Giesecke: No! I don’t think so. I think, … Should I tell you what I really think?

 

Unherd: Please!

 

Prof Giesecke: I almost never do this. I think what we’re seeing is a tsunami of a usually quite mild disease which is sweeping over Europe. And some countries do this, and some countries do that, and some countries don’t do that. And in the end, there will be very little difference.

 

Unherd: So when you say it’s a usually “quite mild” disease, what do you mean by that?

 

Prof Giesecke: That most people who get it will never even notice they were infected.

 

Unherd: So, does that mean that you think the actual fatality rate of this disease is much lower than the numbers that have been talked about?

 

Prof Giesecke: Much, much, lower!

 

Unherd: So have you made any speculations as to what sort of zone, the real fatality rate might be in?

 

Prof Giesecke: I think it would be like a severe influenza season. The same as, and which would be an order of 0.1 percent, maybe.

 

Unherd: So that would suggest then for a country like the UK that has already had, is heading towards 20,000 deaths, that would suggest, that millions, many millions, of people have already had it.

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes!

 

Unherd: And you believe, … Do you think that is also true in Sweden then? That a substantial percentage of the population has had it?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yep! I’m rather certain on that, actually. And when we get — we don’t have the tests really, yet. As you know, you have these two kinds, you know, this don’t you? Two kinds of tests.

 

[15:04]

 

Unherd: Yeah.

 

Prof Giesecke: One that tells that you have it now. Another one that tells you that you had it at some point before. An immunity, or serology test. And they are just being developed and are just being employed.

 

I know from discussions with friends in the UK, that you started last week with 3,500 such tests, and you have gone with eight in one week, and it will be about eight thousand per week. And when you get tests that show that people that have the disease, you’ll see that most of them never even dreamt they had it!

 

Unherd: But we don’t have yet any effective antibody tests, I don’t think. No. You’re right. But it’s coming.

 

Unherd: But you’re confident that we will get those tests?

 

Prof Giesecke: Oh, yes. That’s a matter of time.

 

Unherd: And so what sort of percentage of the population do you think we will discover has had it, once we get mass antibody testing in place?

 

Prof Giesecke: At least half.

 

Unherd: In the United Kingdom, or do you mean in Sweden, as well?

 

Prof Giesecke: Both countries.

 

Unherd: So, the whole sort of rationale for introducing these lockdowns across Europe, that has created such unbelievable side-effects, and pretty much stops the whole world in its tracks.

 

Prof Giesecke: Mmm.

 

Unherd: You believe is a misguided policy, and do you think it’s doing more harm than good?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes! I think so! Although, I mean, if you listen [a slight chuckle], what I’m saying is that people who will die a few months later, are dying now. And that’s taking months from their lives. So that’s maybe not nice. But, comparing that to the effects of the lockdown which may be, …

 

I mean, what am I most afraid of its the dictatorial trends in Eastern Europe, that Orban is now dictator for Hungary forever. There’s no finishing date. I think the same is popping up in other countries. It may pop up in more established democracies, as well. I think the ramifications can be huge from this! We don’t even start seeing that.

 

Unherd: So you think the correct policy from the start, just to get this clear, should have been to shield old and vulnerable groups, …

 

Prof Giesecke: There we failed! Sweden failed. We were not on our toes enough to really shield the old people. We should have banned visitors earlier. Many of the people working in nursing homes are from other countries, they’re refugees, or asylum seekers, in Sweden. Their Swedish may not be perfect. They may not always be understanding the information that has been spread to the population. There are many things we could have done better a couple of weeks, or a couple of months ago.

 

Unherd: So, at the point we are now, what you’re advocating in is we protect groups better.

 

Prof Giesecke: Mmm.

 

Unherd: And as far as the rest of the population is concerned we just allow it to pass through the population? Essentially.

 

Prof Giesecke: Essentially, yes.

 

Unherd: Which is, I mean, I know that it’s now, …

 

Prof Giesecke: Herd immunity, yes.

 

Unherd: That is commonly understood by what we call the “herd immunity” strategy, basically,

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes. There are others. It’s not just the old and frail. I mean, there are other people that should be protected. But I don’t think you can stop it. It’s spreading! You can try, you can stop it for some time, but then? I mean, countries that have been successful, South Korea is giving up now. They can’t maintain their policy. Taiwan, I don’t know about Taiwan, they were quite successful. Singapore, similar problem.

 

Unherd: Those countries that are held up is the most successful. In some cases they totally managed to suppress the outbreak. Do you think that it’s just a question of delay, and actually they won’t be able to hold that back?

 

Prof Giesecke: No!

 

Unherd: So how should we judge success, then? It seems like numbers of deaths does seem like a fair a measure. But if you’re saying that they’re essentially deaths that are just going to happen later, you know, it will sound to some people that’s a slightly cold-hearted approach, I suppose. That if you’re saying they’re going to die anyway, so we should allow the disease to take it’s path.

 

I think a lot of people might feel that a government can’t sit back and do that, if they’re, … If now having had this lockdown and we were headed towards 20,000 deaths, how many deaths might we have had if we had had no lockdown? Would it have been more?

 

[20:15]

 

Prof Giesecke: Yeah, probably a bit more. But in the end the result would be rather much the same. And I agree it’s a bit callous to say, let people, … We’re not saying that. We are saying protect the old, try to slow the spread of the epidemic a bit, so that the health care system will manage, when we have many sick people, many severely ill people. But it’s more, … Well, I don’t think you can’t, really. At some point it’s like, “tsunami” is not a bad, it will roll over Europe no matter what you do!

 

Unherd: And as it rolls over Europe, sooner, or later, will presumably treatments will improve?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes.

 

Unherd: We’ll get better at knowing how to treat it?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes.

 

Unherd: Already feels like the initial focus on ventilation has shifted to other ideas, and people are thinking of new ways to treat it. Is that in itself not an argument for suppressing it as much?

 

Prof Giesecke: But how long in a democracy do you think it would keep a lock-down? How long will it take before people say:

 

“No! I’m not taking it!”

 

You can do it in China. In China you can do it. You can tell people to stay at home and you can weld back that door, so they can’t get out. But in a democracy you can’t! And also in 3 or for weeks people will say:

 

“Well, I don’t know anyone who had the Covid, and I haven’t met any, and I want to go out! I want to go down to the pub!”

 

Unherd: I suppose.

 

Prof Giesecke: So how long do you think you could lock people up like? This stay in your home, you need a permit to go to the shop!

 

Unherd: We don’t actually need a permit. But yeah, I mean, I think we’ve now just had it extended by three weeks. There is an enormous amount of public support for it. And that’s one of the interesting factors about this. That at the moment the public is very much on side with the lockdown in the United Kingdom. Some people seem to like it. [Giesecke starts laughing] So maybe that it’s hard to persuade people to go back in some way.

 

But do you feel, Dr. Giesecke, that the policies that have been put in place by the UK and by other European governments, how did they come about? You’ve been a leading epidemiologist for your whole career. You dealt with influencers, and czars, and you advise the World Health Organization. What was it about this pandemic that was so different, that has led to this global shut down?

 

Prof Giesecke: New disease, a lot of people dying, don’t know really what will happen. And this fear of contagion, I think is almost genetic in people. And showing political strength, decisiveness, force, very important to politicians!

 

Unherd: Do you think the fact that it came out of China and we had witnessed such a enormous response, quarantining whole provinces, and so on, set the tone in some way? And that that felt like, …

 

Prof Giesecke: Yeah.

 

Unherd: … Like the response?

 

Prof Giesecke: Could be. “Let’s do like the Chinese”. But again you can’t compare to China. It’s a different world. And do you think you could keep the lock-down to protect the old people until we have good drugs and good vaccines? Six months, a year, 18 months? I think people would get a bit tired of it, even if they support the policy in the UK

 

Unherd: So a couple of specific things that have occurred to me during our conversation. One is, how many deaths do you foresee in Sweden? You are up at 1,400, or something? [As of Apr 25, 2020 the Swedish total is 2,192]

 

Prof Giesecke: I think it will be like a severe influenza. And it’s interesting with influenza, when the flu comes we all say:

 

“Oh, the flu is coming!”

 

Like every winter, it’s in the papers, the flu is here, okay. And it usually kills in this country around, 1,000, 2,000 people. But it’s normal, it’s influenza. We have it every year. And they’re old and they’re going to die soon anyway. So no one is very upset about influenza.

 

But I think if influenza came around as a “new disease”, you never had it before, but suddenly this new disease called “influenza” popped up, we would have exactly the same reaction as we have now! So I think the number of deaths will about be about the same as in a severe influenza. How many are you? Fifty million?

 

[25:14]

 

Unherd: Yeah. 65

 

Prof Giesecke: 65. So multiply by six. So it would be 12,000 cases in the UK.

 

Unherd: Well, we’ve already had 13,000

 

Prof Giesecke: And a lot of the influenza deaths are not booked, or they’re not recorded in that way, anyway. In [words unclear] disease. So I think this is similar. About the same anyway. It may be double as much, but it won’t be ten times as much.

 

Unherd: The reports from hospitals that are very different aren’t they? The way the disease progresses seems different from influenza.

 

Prof Giesecke: Oh yeah, it’s different. It’s not the same disease as influenza. But it’s not, … The shape of the epidemic is not that different. There are a few differences. For example, the influenza is driven by children. An influenza outbreak is driven by children in society. They are the ones who pass it on between the generations. And this does not hurt children very much. They don’t have any symptoms. And they’re not very infectious. So that there are epidemiological differences.

 

Unherd: Hmm. When talking about all people like you did, as opposed to children, a lot of people will say that young people have been dying of Covid 19. There are examples of young people dying, and some of the data out of America suggests that a large number of hospitalizations are among younger people. Is it responsible to describe it as just a disease for elderly people?

 

Prof Giesecke: No. But influenza can spread to those people too, even though not that many. And it much more, makes more headlines right now. And if you look at the data. I mean, people under 50, are a clear minority of all the cases.

 

Unherd: So, I’m 38. I’m on the sort of borders between young and old. If you’re younger than me, what is your advice to young people? I mean, should they be campaigning to have the lockdown eased, because it’s inappropriate? What are other risks for young people? We’re told that it’s about carrying the disease to other people, and they act as spreaders, even though they’re not vulnerable themselves. What should we be doing with younger people?

 

Prof Giesecke: No, I think it’s good thing you are doing. They won’t hurt that much! I mean, you can’t say that it’s completely without, what the English word? It’s not completely safe. I mean, there will be young people who die. But, for the majority it’s, … But what you said is correct, that they should think about protecting other people. That’s important, because they move around a lot. Then they shouldn’t meet the grandmother and grandfather too much. And until they’ve had it themselves, yet.

 

Unherd: So, I’m just trying to guess, … We’re nearing time now. I just want to get a sense. What should the British government do now, in your opinion? We should say:

 

“Okay, lockdown is canceled!”

 

Prof Giesecke: No! You can’t do that! Then you have a wave of cases. Then you really have a peak, one week, two weeks later, if you took away all the lock-down. No, you’ll have to climb down, one rung of the ladder at the time. And probably start with the school closures, maybe. It’s a good thing it makes society, … I mean, in this country Sweden we have one million people, children, between 0 and 10. They need to be looked after. If they’re not in school, someone has to stay at home with them.

 

And one of my friends is a nurse and head of an emergency room here, an emergency ward here in Stockholm. She prays every morning when she wakes up that the government will not close Junior School, because then she loses her office staff. So school closure is one thing. But I think, one step has to be taken at a time.

 

And it’s interesting how the countries in Europe are sort of, after the lock-down, are approaching the Swedish policy now. They’re opening up schools in all the Nordic countries. In Austria you can shop in a job that’s more than 400 square metres. In Germany they are going to do the same thing on Monday. In Germany they were also thinking about opening the schools again. So countries are approaching the Swedish, but they had a lock-down first.

 

[30:00]

 

Unherd: So you don’t think, … There’s two other there’s, two things that people get very hopeful about. One is a vaccine. And then someway we can suppress the disease completely until the vaccine comes. Is that a feasible strategy?

 

Prof Giesecke: No! We’ll take too long! It won’t work in a democracy.

 

Unherd: And one other idea are these so-called immunity passports, for people who have proven to have had the disease, they could then carry a wristband, or something, that and they would then be allowed back into jobs and in full society. Is that a feasible strategy in your view?

 

Prof Giesecke: There are some technical problems with [that]. Like you indicated the antibody tests are not that perfect yet. So it will be, but it’s not a bad idea. Do you need a passport? Do you tell your boss at work that I’m immune? Maybe he wants to see a paper. No, I mean, that’s the way we work. That you find people who are immune and they can go back and you can work in the hospital without all this spacesuit on. Things like that.

 

Unherd: Will that be part of the Swedish strategy?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yeah, yep.

 

Unherd: So, in terms of what happens next then in Sweden, you know, there’s a huge amount of pressure, a lot of people are looking to prove that it was a mistake in some way. Do you think the Swedish strategy will just stay as it has been?

 

Prof Giesecke: I don’t think it will be tougher. No. We’re talking now about opening the final year of schooling, so that people who spent 12 years in school can celebrate. Which is a big thing in this country. It’s not, because of the celebration is being done, but it’s to see that those who finish school get grades and finish all the tests they have to take and things like that.

 

Unherd: And so you feel like the curve is improving sufficiently in Sweden to start releasing further the suppression measures?

 

Prof Giesecke: Yes!

 

Unherd: And how did that happen without a lockdown? Just by voluntary social distancing, has already achieved that, you believe?

 

Prof Giesecke: Mm-hmm. And there are some, … Maybe we should finish this now, but one, it’s not a law. What do you call a minor law in English, an ordinance? That’s something that not as strong as a law.

 

Unherd: [word unclear]

 

Prof Giesecke: Yeah. Restaurants, the rule is you can only eat sitting down. The food should be hot and served at the table. You can’t stand up drinking. If you want your beer you have to sit down at the table, which is five feet away from the nearest table.

 

Unherd: Yeah.

 

Prof Giesecke: And that’s being checked now. But it’s not the government, it’s the local medical offices of health that go out and check restaurants. And when they closed two, or three restaurants, because the tables are too close, or people are standing at the bar, the other followed suite. You don’t need a law for that. They know that if the MOH, the Medical Officer of Health comes in, they’re closed for business.

 

Unherd: When do we get past that? When can we just back to normal, then? And no social distancing at all? What will be the metric for making that decision?

 

Prof Giesecke: That is a good question. I’m not quite sure I can answer that for you. But it will take a couple of months to climb down from a lockdown. Can you climb down from a lockdown? I don’t know.

 

Unherd: Professor Giesecke, thank you so much for your time. That was fascinating!

 

Prof Giesecke: Thank you!

 

Unherd: And we learnt an entirely different perspective there. And we will definitely be in touch in one year from now, but hopefully we will get a chance to talk to you before that.

 

Prof Giesecke: Okay.

 

Unherd: Thank you so much.

 

Prof Giesecke: Nice talking to you.

 

Unherd: Thank you. So there you have it!

 

You have been watching Lockdown TV from Unherd. That was Professor Johan Giesecke from Sweden, the former State Epidemiologist, adviser to the World Health Organization, who believes that the lockdown imposed across Europe and in the United Kingdom were the wrong policy. And that we’re going to find it very difficult to reverse out of. So that is a different perspective.

 

Thanks for tuning in. And we will be back next week

 

[34:24]

 

END

 

(Click images to enlarge)

 

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See Also

 

 

J-IDEA – Professor Neil Ferguson on the current 2019-nCoV coronavirus outbreak – Feb 6, 2020 — Transcript

UnHerd – Malcolm Turnbull – Don’t Count Trump Out – Jun 12, 2020 — Transcript

UnHerd – Why Lockdowns are the Wrong Policy – Swedish Expert Prof Johan Giesecke – Apr 17, 2020 — Transcript

UnHerd – Scott Atlas – I’m Disgusted and Dismayed – Oct 20, 2020 — Transcript

Ivor Cummins – Amazing Debate on Lockdown Ideology Versus Scientific Approach – Unmissable! – Oct 23, 2020 — Transcript

UnHerd – Prof Tim Spector – Hopes of a Vaccine Will Lead to More Lockdowns – Nov 11, 2020 — Transcript

 

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