Keith Woods: All right. Welcome, everyone. I’m back. I have a big guest today. A lot of you were really looking forward to this, and a lot of you have requested this before. It’s Ron Unz, the editor publisher of the Unz Review, one of my favourite websites. I often plug it at the end of streams here. You’ll notice when I’m recommending links for people to check out. And yeah, great, great aggregator of stuff that’s kind of broadly in the sort of dissident Right scene, or not even just dissident Right.

 

I mean, they publish people like Michael Hudson and so on. And his own series, American Pravda, is something I would recommend to everyone as well. I’ve been listening to the audio versions of that today where Ron goes over sort of revisionist history, takes on the 20th century as it relates to World War II and the JFK assassination, 9/11, and so on. And yeah, I’m excited to have one. It’s great to have you here, Ron.

 

Ron Unz: Hey, great to be here.

 

Keith Woods: Thank you. So what’s your own background? You don’t seem like the typical kind of person to end up in the position you’re in. It seems like you have a more sort of establishment conservatism background. You’ve been involved in Republican Party politics. So yeah, just like, what’s the general background there of how you made your way to kind of this side of things?

 

Ron Unz: Well, I mean, my original background was actually in theoretical physics.

 

In other words, I originally thought I studied theoretical physics in college, and I thought I’d probably be doing an academic career. And then basically around the mid 1980s, I ended up taking a detour where I took a summer job working on Wall Street. One thing led to another, and I ended up actually spending about the next ten years or 15 years of my life writing financial services software for Wall Street firms. And after about a year or so, I love to set up my own small company. And that really was sort of my main activity for a long period of time like that.

 

Now, I’d always been very interested in public policy and politics, and so after I moved back to California in the early mid 1990s, I ended up becoming involved in some of political campaigns out here. I just was very unhappy about what was going on in the state, and I actually ended up I didn’t expect to win, but I actually ended up challenging Governor Pete Wilson for renomination in his own Republican primary and then got involved in various other issues initiative campaigns, for example. I ran a series of successful initiative campaigns to shift California and the rest of the United States away from teaching immigrant children in their native language, so-called bilingual education towards making sure that they were taught English from the first day of school.

 

In other words, it seemed to me it really made no sense for children when they start school, not to be taught the English language and that ended up really being quite successful.

 

And in fact, bilingual education has largely disappeared around the United States because of those efforts. And I got involved in various other political activities as well. And then probably it was then probably about the mid to late 1990s when I became again actively involved in public policy, again more on the issue of international foreign policy.

 

In other words, I was very concerned about some of the actions we were taking, especially after the 9/11 attacks when we shifted towards the attack on Iraq, the Iraq, War, which I viewed as being probably a disaster.

 

And so I ended up actually providing some financial support to a magazine, the American Conservative, that was set up to oppose the policies of George W Bush with regard to Iraq and a lot of other things like that.

 

And so I ended up serving as a publisher of The American Conservative for about, I guess it was probably about seven or eight years. And then just about a decade ago, I ended up leaving to set up my own website, the Unz Review, which I thought would be a useful venue for my own writings.

 

In other words, at that point, at first I really was thinking more in terms of eventually doing a lot more writing of my own and having a website that I could basically use to publish my material on.

 

And then as it was, I got tied up with some software issues for a few years.

 

And so the website really primarily was providing a location for other writers, alternative media from the Left and the right to really have their articles published. Because in some ways one interesting thing I noticed gradually was that sometimes people, both who considered themselves very much on the Left or on the Right sometimes actually agreed with each other about many things that they might disagree with the more mainstream of the political spectrum on.

 

So it was the sort of thing where I felt by providing an Avenue for both people from the Left-Right libertarian camps to sort of cross-fertilize each other and trade ideas, it would show that sometimes they might agree with each other on things that they didn’t even realize. So that really had been probably the main thing I’ve been involved in over the last ten years.

 

And then about six or seven years ago, I ended up getting much more actively involved in going back to writing of my own. And just as you mentioned, the American Pravda series, which deals with a lot of controversial issues from the last 100 years of American society, is certainly the place where I’ve published most of my articles, basically during the 1990s. Most of my writings probably dealt with issues of race and ethnicity and social policy, affirmative action, bilingual education, multiculturalism, immigration. While probably in the last six or seven years, the focus probably has been more on foreign policy history and again, sort of looking at the history of the 20th century.

 

Now, one other thing I should mention is that from about the mid 1990s onward, I actually was involved in a major project to digitize the collected archives of many of America’s leading public policy magazines or opinion magazines of the last 100 years The Nation, The New Republic, National Review, Harpers, and also a lot of magazines that disappeared that had been once very influential but then had gone out of business. And by going through and digitizing all those old publications, I really came across a lot of facts and interesting aspects of American society from the 1920s, 1930s, 1950s that really I’d been very unaware of just by standard college history courses or things like that.

 

So, in other words, it provided a great deal of background information that was new to me and new to other people. And that’s actually one reason I started questioning a lot of the history that I learnt in college. Because when you actually come across articles published in America’s leading magazines from the 1910s and 1920s and you see the picture they portray of American society is so different than what you’d always imagined it was at the time, it really just opens your mind to other possibilities.

 

So, I mean, that’s a fairly long introduction, but that’s basically where I came from on these sorts of issues.

 

[0:07:50]

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, you mentioned immigration. You haven’t always had sort of an anti-immigration stance. That’s one thing I noticed looking back at your articles. When did that kind of change happen? You kind of evolved your stance on immigration in around the early 2010s, is that right?

 

Ron Unz: Right. I’ve always had mixed feelings about immigration, but generally very opposed to many of the anti-immigration activists around.

 

In other words, basically, it seems to me, immigration has both positives and negatives. And probably the biggest negative that’s become apparent to me in the last, 20 years looking at American society has been the impact of large scale immigration on economic issues.

 

In other words, one reason, for example, for the severe economic decline of much of American society has been, I think, the very large scale immigration we’ve seen over the last 30 or 40 years. A lot of the critics of immigrants say that immigrants are lazy, they’re on welfare or something like that, or they commit a lot of crime, and I don’t think there’s really any evidence for that at all in American society. Now, it may be different in other countries, but not in America.

 

The problem, though, is that when you bring in a large number of eager workers who are willing to work for low wages, you obviously, by the law of supply and demand, drive down the wages for everybody competing against them in American society. And that, I think, is probably one of the strongest arguments you can make against existing American immigration policy.

 

And the flip side of that is the exact reason why America’s business groups business interests have been so strongly pro-immigrant because they see that large scale immigration helps to keep down the wages of the workers. And so things that are beneficial for, obviously, employers or for business groups can be very harmful sometimes for the economic interests of the workers who they’re employing by driving down their wages.

 

And one of the interesting things about it is if the issue were handled, I think, the right way, it would be much easier for America to solve that problem than many of these, for example, anti-immigrant groups have focused on. And the reason for that is that the groups most competing with new immigrants in American society are existing immigrants, recent immigrants.

 

So for example, if the issue were cast in economic terms like that, I think a very substantial fraction of America’s immigrant or recent immigrant population would be certainly very supportive of the notion of taking steps to reduce the flow of future immigrants.

 

And in fact, one of the issues that I raised that probably was my own contribution to debate, which really had, I think, pretty substantial impact, is the issue of one of the best it’s the minimum wage.

 

In other words, the whole notion of raising the minimum wage to a much higher level by itself, I think would tremendously reduce some of the immigration problems because most of the immigrants who come here are obviously willing to work for relatively low wages. If you raise the wage, the minimum wage, to something much higher, 12 or $15 an hour, it would act as a formidable deterrent towards immigrants basically coming here since they wouldn’t be able to take those jobs very easily. And it would also act as a formidable deterrent towards business groups hiring workers at a lower wage since the wage would not be that much lower. And what I ended up doing about that was basically about seven or eight years ago, I ended up shifting the debate in American society on the minimum wage and successfully causing a revival of the minimum wage as a major issue in American society.

 

So for example, in California right now, the minimum wage is $15 an hour where as of a decade ago it was, I believe, about $8 an hour. So we’ve roughly doubled the minimum wage in California. And the same thing, for example, has happened in various other parts of the country as well, though it’s not happened on the national level. And if more effort were put into raising the minimum wage, I think that would be a very effective means of severely greatly reducing the problems that immigration has been causing in American society and decreased a lot of the incentive for immigration down the road.

 

[0:12:23]

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, your articles on immigration are interesting. To look back at them, you were making arguments that were seemed to be very unpopular at the time, that some tropes about Hispanics committing disproportionate amount of crime actually wasn’t accurate, Hispanic immigration.

 

And you also pushed back, which I thought was interesting, against the narrative about the 1965 Immigration Act, right. That’s pretty popular in Right-wing circles in the US. Like, it kind of all went wrong after the 65 Immigration Act. Like that’s what opened the borders. That’s what changed this immigration policy from exclusive to Europeans to open it to everyone. You had a very different take. You said the 1965 Immigration Act actually restricted immigration because it did something about the ease with which South Americans could immigrate to the US.

 

Ron Unz: Sure, it’s really a very simple issue. America traditionally had an open immigration policy for basically most of our history.

 

And then in 1924, an immigration act was passed severely restricting immigration from Europe.

 

In other words, we cut off most of our immigration from Europe, and at the same time it eliminated immigration almost entirely from Asia or from Africa.

 

So in other words, Eastern Hemisphere immigration was largely reduced in the 1920s partly because of concern over these economic issues or political issues.

 

In other words, there was a movement to restrict foreign immigration to the United States, but it excluded the entire Western Hemisphere.

 

So in other words, we kept our open borders policy towards Latin American and Caribbean immigration.

 

In other words, anybody from Mexico or the rest of Latin America who wanted to immigrate to the United States would have to pay something like, I think it was $14 or $18, wait a couple of days, and they could immigrate here. So in a sense, we kept what amounted to an open borders immigration policy towards Latin America. The reason we didn’t have much immigration from Latin America for the 40 years that followed was that Latin America was tremendously underpopulated.

 

In other words, the population density was lower. So there just weren’t that many people who would come here. Some came, but not that many. And then it turns out, in about the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s Mexico and Latin America, the rest of Latin America underwent a tremendous population boom, a population explosion.

 

For example, the population of Mexico, I think had quadrupled in a period of about 50 years, even excluding the large number of Mexicans who moved to the United States. So it turns out the 1965 Immigration Act was widely perceived as increasing immigration to the United States because it reopened the possibility of large scale immigration from Europe and from other parts around the world.

 

In other words, we undid the 1924 Immigration Act, and Europeans suddenly could move to the United States, where for about 40 years, very strict quotas had been placed against most of the European countries.

 

But at the same time, the 1965 Immigration Act also imposed quotas for the first time on Mexico and the rest of Latin America.

 

So in other words, prior to the 1965 Immigration Act, there was no limit on Latin American immigration. And given the fact that Latin America was right around then beginning to experience a tremendous population explosion. If not for the passage of the 1965 Immigration Act, you could imagine millions upon millions of Latin Americans moving to the United States as immigrants every year.

 

And so while it’s true that about 60 million Latin American, sorry, 60 million Americans are either immigrants or the descendants of immigrants from those parts of the world after 1965, if not for the passage of the 1965 Act, the numbers probably would have been much higher. It could have been 100 million or 150,000,000 or something like that, simply because changing immigration law in the United States is obviously a very difficult thing to do politically.

 

And in fact, as you know, I mean, for decades now we’ve been arguing about it, and simply because with business groups very interested in having immigration at very high levels, they can almost always block any members in Congress to reduce immigration.

 

And in fact, for the last, 20 years, business groups have been making an effort to even further open our borders, to have an amnesty and increase immigration even to much higher levels than before. So it sounds, I mean, it’s very counterintuitive. And certainly many individuals focused on immigration issues are under, are unaware of the facts. But the truth is, the 1965 Immigration Act, by sharply restricting immigration from Latin America for the first time, probably prevented much more immigration than it supported.

 

In other words, we had many more immigrants from Europe and we had many more immigrants from Asia than we would have without the 1965 Immigration Act. But if it hadn’t passed, probably Latin American immigration would have been far larger than it ended up being.

 

And since the majority of our immigrants have come from Latin America, it sounds counterintuitive, but the 1965 Immigration Act probably played a role in reducing net immigration to the United States rather than increasing it. And that’s something, again, that most people aren’t aware of its the sort of thing a lot of anti-immigration websites have written on the subject over the years. And when I’ve brought it to their attention and they’ve checked into it, they’ve found out that what I was saying was correct.

 

And so they’ve stopped writing new articles denouncing the 1965 Immigration Act. But they obviously can’t take down the hundreds of articles they’ve previously written on that subject.

 

And so it’s one of these things, it amounts to sort of a mistake that got into circulation about 30 or 35 years ago that probably will never be corrected. But it’s the sort of thing with all those thousands of articles there misfortune the 1965 Immigration Act. It’s hard to say what will happen, but I mean, basically anybody can go and just check the details.

 

In fact, you can even read Kevin MacDonald’s book on The Culture of Critique where he actually discusses the 1965 Act and the fact that it actually, for the first time, restricted immigration from Latin America. So it’s simply a factual matter. And there are a lot of stats floating around the Internet, and that’s simply one of them.

 

Keith Woods: Well, I don’t mind this narrative because it vindicates the Irish, right? We always get blamed for the 65 Immigration Act. Wasn’t it Ted Kennedy?

 

[0:19:26]

 

Ron Unz: Yeah, he actually played a very minor role.

 

In other words, basically he was a very junior Senator at the time. And it’s true. Certainly the Irish groups and jewish groups and Italian groups were all in favour of the 1965 Act because their immigration had been cut off to the United States.

 

And so it was suddenly opened up again after 40 years. But the number of European immigrants the point is, Europe was no longer suffering a population explosion at the time, and Europe had also become quite prosperous by 1965 or 1970. So there wasn’t the pressure to move to the United States that there probably would have been 30 or 40 years earlier.

 

Keith Woods: And you mentioned this a little bit earlier when you’re talking about the arguments around immigration and the fact that you think newer rivals in the US. Could be won over to Nancy immigration position. That’s another narrative that was very popular a few years ago, this narrative about immigration that if it’s not stopped in the US the Republicans will never win another election. And eventually they’ll realize this and they’ll become sort of an implicitly White anti-migration party. Didn’t quite play out that way.

 

But it is interesting looking at some of the polls from the last couple of years where it seems like among what’s classified as Hispanics, however they divide that up, that it’s like 50-50 Democrat-Republican, and some of them even lean Republican. So a lot of the things people took for granted about demographics and the political process there seem to be being challenged.

 

I’m just curious how you see that playing out. Like, do you think the Republican Party can become a party that’s viable in this new multiracial America? And then what does that do for the debate around immigration? It almost seems like it’s taken something of a backseat since Trump. Like there was a little bit of disappointment about Trump, and now I don’t know, I get this feeling among people on the Right in the US that they almost feel like that’s lost to an extent in terms of managing the demographics, like on the state level. But yeah, I don’t know what your feelings are about that.

 

Ron Unz: Well, I certainly think I’m not too surprised that there’s been a substantial shift of Hispanics and Asians towards the Republican Party.

 

In other words, they’re right now getting the Republicans are still getting less than half, but it’s probably 40, 45, sometimes closer to 50% from Hispanic and Asian groups. I don’t think it’s so much that the Republicans have attracted them, but many of the policies of the Democrats have been so disastrous that they’ve pushed many of those groups away.

 

For example, I think probably the biggest issue has been the crime issue.

 

In other words, there’s been a gigantic rise in urban crime in many parts of the country. And you’ve probably seen some of the videos where especially attacks by blacks on Asians, many times elderly Asians have been attacked and killed just walking on the street.

 

And so that, I think, has caused a tremendous shift of Asians towards the Republican Party simply because when you have a situation where there was a massive increase in crime in the United States, urban crime a year or two ago, and the response of many prominent Democrats was to say, we have to defund the police.

 

I mean, that’s utter insanity. And that, I think, is probably the reason many ordinary Hispanics and Asians started giving another look towards the Republican Party.

 

Also, for example, a lot of what I guess you could call the sort of wokeness or the transgenderism, those are not things that are particularly appealing to ordinary Hispanics or Asians or Whites, for that matter blacks. In other words, a lot of people who are more ordinary working class people have been pushed out of the Democratic Party because of some of its extreme positions it’s taken.

 

And so, again, it’s not a question of, like all the Republicans, the Republicans gaining necessarily 60% or 70% of these groups, but there’s definitely been a shift in that direction. It’s interesting that the shift started probably about four or five years ago.

 

In fact, if anything, when Donald Trump was elected, he ended up actually doing much better among Hispanic voters than anybody expected.

 

In other words, the media portrayed Trump as being a fanatic hater of Hispanics, that he attacked Hispanics, that he said all these nasty things about them, and surprisingly enough, he actually got a much larger share of the Hispanic vote than most people expected because he ran on working class concerns.

 

In other words, he ran saying, I intend to improve the economic position of ordinary working class Americans. Most Hispanics are working class, and so they were attracted by that argument, even if they were repelled by some of his other arguments. And then once he came into office, the fact that in some ways the economy was doing better under him caused again, many of those people to shift in his direction.

 

[0:24:30]

 

So the funny thing about it is, even though Donald Trump was portrayed as a tremendous villain by the media, somebody who hated Hispanics, who was anti-Hispanic, racist, he actually came close to getting the highest Hispanic percentage of any Republican president in modern times, almost equaling what Ronald Reagan had done 30 or 40 years ago.

 

So it’s the sort of thing, the Republican Party, if it’s simply concentrated on issues having to do with these economic facts or some of these social issues like the extreme policies in the public school. Sometimes I think it just naturally and a law and order policy I think would probably do much better among Hispanics and Asians and Whites and to some extent blacks than it would be if it simply tried some of these other things.

 

I mean, the whole thing about it, a lot of the Republican elites tend to believe that support for higher levels of immigration is the way to win Hispanic votes, and that’s not at all the case.

 

In other words, Hispanics are mostly motivated by bread and butter issues, by meat and potato issues, and larger scale immigration, in other words, is not something necessarily that improves the economic posture of ordinary Hispanic workers since they would be competing against these new immigrants.

 

And so for that reason, I think, for example, there certainly could be some political strategies the Republicans could follow that would be much more advantageous in that way. But I don’t really see any sign of the Republicans actually adopting it, partly because the Republicans are so much the captive of the same business interests that support large scale immigration that the Democratic Party is as well.

 

So, I mean, from my point of view, I think many of the attacks against immigration over the last, 20 or 30 or 40 years have been severely misguided. But I do think strong arguments can be made towards reducing immigration on entirely different grounds, and I think probably those lines of attack would be much more successful than what the Republican Party or what Conservatives have tried to achieve over the years.

 

Keith Woods: Another thing I’ve noticed recently, especially since I went back looking at Twitter, and I don’t know if this is due to Elon Musk’s, Twitter being more relaxed on this stuff and not having shadow banning, but it does seem like there’s something of a sea change in terms of people are really discussing the issue of black crime now. And it’s not just a few kooks out there like Jared Taylor or Colin Flaherty. It’s quite mainstream Conservatives that are discussing this issue. And you go on Twitter and there’s constantly these viral videos showing what it was like in public schools for White children and so on. Yet Scott Adams and his recent outbursts, which got a lot of support, actually. Yeah.

 

I’m just curious about that it’s kind of something people have been speculating on lately. Why do these mainstream Conservatives that have ignored this for so long seem to be embracing it now? Or is it just an organic thing that the viral effect of this stuff being out there, and after all the years of censorship, that eventually it just reached a boiling point. But yeah, I don’t know if you have a take on that or what, …

 

[0:28:00]

 

Ron Unz: Well, I mean, all of those things are factors, but another factor is black crime in the United States has become much, much worse than it was a few years ago.

 

In other words, in the aftermath of the George Floyd incident in Minneapolis that really forced a lot of the police to be adopting a much more defensive posture.

 

And again, there have been all these cases of, for example, police being prosecuted on grounds of, for example, sometimes even just shooting back at a black criminal and things like that. And so when you have so many police being very worried that they could become the next sacrificial lamb on something like that, if somebody takes a video of them, I think the police basically have pulled back in a lot of these cities.

 

And at the same time, the media narrative has been so extreme the last couple of years, the notion of, for example, police murdering large numbers of backs, killing blacks for no reason at all, that I think has in turn, enraged much of the black population.

 

And so there’s been a tremendous rise, I think, in the degree of black violence in many of these urban centres. Again, I mean, some of the things, for example, that have happened in San Francisco and other parts of the country, New York City as well. Elderly Asians simply walking on the street and suddenly being attacked and beaten or sometimes even killed by blacks in a random fashion. That was not something that was occurring five or six years ago. And things like that get on YouTube, they get on Twitter, and they go viral in just the way you’re saying.

 

So when you look, for example, at the rate of black homicides, it’s much, much higher than it was a few years ago.

 

Keith Woods: Do the policies of Trump have anything to do with that? He had the First Step Act, and he had a few Acts that kind of relaxed restrictions in terms of letting violent criminals out of prison early and so on. Did that play a factor?

 

Ron Unz: Oh, I think it certainly did.

 

In other words, Trump on that issue, in a sense, followed very much the liberal agenda, which was strange because.

 

I mean, the media portrayed him as an ultra Right-wing fascist or something like that. But I mean, he basically supported the media line of basically letting a lot of criminals out of prison.

 

So, for example, there’s been a tide of that.

 

For example, back about 20, 30 years ago, when crime was very high, there was a massive wave in California and other states to put people in prison for much longer periods of time. There was the three strikes movement, and in California, the percentage of the population incarcerated rose dramatically.

 

So in other words, many more people were put in prison, which might have gone too far in that direction. But on the other hand, with so many people in prison, obviously crime went down.

 

And so then for about 15 years, 15 or 20 years, with a decline in crime rates, partly because of those very high levels of incarceration, then there began a movement saying that we should really let more people out of prison, we should reduce sentencing, we. Should eliminate three strikes. And that ended up developing momentum of its own.

 

So now, for example, the number of people incarcerated in prison in California is much lower than it was ten or 15 years ago, and sentencing is much laxer. Unfortunately, one result of that is that crime rates are much, much higher than they had been, especially violent crime rates, which is what people are most concerned about.

 

There was also an effort, for example, on the part of various liberal or left liberal donors, George Soros being the best example, to fund District Attorneys who would be much less harsh on criminals than before. And that actually happened. The District Attorney, for example, in San Francisco was recalled from office because crime rates had spiked under his laxer policies. And there’s an effort actually to recall the District Attorney in Los Angeles for the same sort of reason.

 

So in other words, it’s been a mixture of a number of different factors. There was a sense that America was incarcerating too many individuals unfairly, and in many cases, those individuals were black. There were too many black men in prison.

 

And so that shifted towards an effort towards letting them out of prison, which resulted in tremendous increase in crime rates, especially in combination with the police being very nervous about being filmed and being sentenced if a criminal ended up dying or was an innocent person was shot in any of their actions.

 

So it’s a mixture of basically the police being much more cautious than they were in the past, District Attorneys sometimes refusing to press charges with the severity they had in the past, and many prisoners being let out of prison. And the result of that has just been much, much higher crime rates before.

 

Also, for example, in some cases in California, for example, I think shoplifting less than I think was like a couple was changed to misdemeanors.

 

So, for example, cases there were video cases where people would, for example, walk into a grocery store or walk into a drugstore and just fill a shopping bag with items that they then would sell on Ebay or sell on the Internet. And when someone like that basically is not prosecuted for the crimes, and when ordinary shoplifters are not prosecuted, it obviously gives people an incentive then to escalating to more serious crimes.

 

And here, for example, in Palo Alto, there have been many cases over the last few years of gangs of ten or 15 or 20 people coming here from Oakland or coming here from another city, rushing in a group into a high end department store and just stealing everything. Stealing, for example, Apple, looting an Apple store, looting other stores, sometimes breaking into, …

 

Keith Woods: Jewelry stores.

 

Ron Unz: Exactly. And when things like that get on the Internet and there’s a sense developing that crimes like that are not being punished, it obviously causes many other people to start considering doing something similar.

 

So I mean, crime is certainly a serious problem in the United States, and probably within a few years there’ll be such a reaction against it. We may go back to what we had 20 years ago with much stiffer sentencing, but at least for now, I mean, one reason there’s more concern about crime is that crime is much more severe than it was.

 

[0:34:45]

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, the popular issues for the Right are always crime and immigration. Right. I mean, you can see it with the guy in El Salvador, like, massive support for his policies. But yeah, it’s incredible. You get someone like Trump in office and he took extremely liberal positions on that issue. But I’m sure it’ll be more of a focus as maybe immigration becomes a bit more contentious and the country becomes more multiracial. I’m sure the crime issue will come more to the forefront.

 

But by the way, for the people watching, we’re also live on Cozy TV. We actually have more viewers on Cozy than YouTube tonight, which is interesting. The sort of old tech side is winning. There’s 500 watching there live. And you can send Super Chats if you have a question for Ron Unz on Power Chat. The link is there.

 

Now, actually, the reason I asked you on originally was because this thing about the origins of Covid right. The US government started putting this out that now they believe that it came from a Chinese laboratory.

 

And I thought it was interesting because immediately the reaction of the sort of old media types was like, oh, the conspiracy theorists have been proven correct again, and this kind of vindicates us. And we’re always right in the end, and the mainstream has to give in and not approach it with a great deal of skepticism. The government lies about everything, but not this kind of thing. And so, yeah, I went back to your articles on this because you’re one of the few people that has been pushing an alternative theory. There’s kind of been two theories, right. The sort of mainstream accepted theory was it came out of a wet market. It was like a natural mutation.

 

And then a lot of people speculated that it came from the laboratory in Wuhan. There are arguments for that. Supposedly someone that worked on the WHO investigation said that China pressured them heavily not to investigate the lab.

 

But then that’s something they would do either way, right, if they don’t want that narrative circulating. But you’ve promoted an alternative theory that you think elements of the US government or the US Deep State are responsible and that this was a means of sort of economic warfare against China. But instead of me summarizing it, maybe you can explain it to the audience.

 

[0:37:13]

 

Ron Unz: Sure. Well.

 

I mean, the whole thing about is when the virus first appeared in Wuhan, right towards the basically, it was first discovered probably right at the end of 2019.

 

So, in other words, the world started hearing about it in January, early January 2021, obviously, nobody had any idea what was going on.

 

In other words, a mysterious virus suddenly appeared in the city of Wuhan, and it seemed contagious it was spreading. And people also weren’t even sure how dangerous it was, what the death rate would be. And there were obviously a lot of concerns. And fairly quickly, within about a month or two, a standard narrative was formed, the sort of official narrative on the part of the American science establishment that the virus was natural.

 

In other words, it had mutated in probably a bat or some other form of animal, and it spread to the humans in Wuhan and then was going out from there.

 

So, in other words, the natural virus theory ended up being the dominant establishmentarian narrative for about a year, a year and a half in the West. And it was supported by a couple of paper, early papers that came out in nature health and in science magazine, where a number of very respectable scientists said that the virus was obviously natural.

 

Now, at the same time, there was a counter-narrative, fairly widespread in the alternative media and also anti-China groups that got started very early on. And that narrative was that the virus had come from a laboratory.

 

Keith Woods: I remember, sorry to interrupt. I remember Steve Bannon was pushing this very, …

 

Ron Unz: Exactly, and it got started very early.

 

In other words, basically, I ended up hearing it seeing on the internet in January, probably early to mid January, before almost anybody in the world was even focused on Wuhan.

 

In other words, before the virus had spread to any other country. And the story that they were putting out was that the virus had come from the Wuhan Institute of virology. Now, it just so happened the city of Wuhan, most Americans, most Westerners had probably never heard of Wuhan. I don’t think I’d ever heard of Wuhan until the viral outbreak.

 

Wuhan is a large city. It has a population of 11 million, but it’s an interior city, so it’s not the sort of city that most Westerners. It’s not like Beijing or Shanghai. And Wuhan is the site of China’s most advanced viral research facility, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which was set up, I think, about eight or nine years ago.

 

So it makes perfect sense. We suddenly have this mysterious virus appearing in a city in China, and by an amazing coincidence, that same city has China’s most advanced viral laboratory. So it didn’t take too much to put two to two plus two together. And to see that why many people started arguing that the virus had probably leaked out of the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

 

In other words, the argument was some people claimed it might have even been developed deliberately as a Chinese bioweapon. Others said, oh, the Chinese were just running experiments on viruses in that facility, and it suddenly leaked out.

 

So in other words, the two arguments that ended up being widespread for really the last three years are, first of all, the natural virus argument, which is basically that the virus is entirely natural. It simply came from some animal species and happened to appear in the city of Wuhan at that time.

 

The other narrative, which was supported by many members of the Donald Trump administration trump sometimes implied it. Mike Pompeo implied at some of the people of his administration is that it leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, the lab leak hypothesis. And then once it leaked, it then spread around parts of the city of Wuhan and eventually spread around the rest of the world.

 

So, in other words, it was a Chinese virus that devastated the United States eventually when it got here, that devastated Europe that’s probably killed 20 million people around the world.

 

And so, again, those are perfectly plausible theories.

 

But one thing that made me very suspicious early on, as early as January, before almost anybody was paying attention to that virus in the city of Wuhan, when it was just getting a little bit of coverage, there was already a tremendous propaganda campaign in the alternative media, especially the anti-China alternative media, portraying the virus as having come from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

 

In other words, it happened very early on. Radio Free Asia, which is one of America’s propaganda outlets, was talking about the virus having leaked from the Institute, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, as early as January 6, before anybody else in the world was even paying attention to this disease, before a single person had died in the city of Wuhan. And that basically made me suspicious about why would there have been such a massive propaganda campaign targeting China and targeting the virus before almost anybody in the world was even paying attention to some obscure disease in the city of Wuhan, which most people had never heard of at all.

 

So early on, I started thinking that there are obviously two possibilities. The virus might be natural, or the virus might have leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology the way some people were suggesting. But there was obviously a third possibility as well. At that point, the virus appeared in the city of Wuhan when America was at an extreme international confrontation with China over issues of trade, over issues of national security.

 

In other words, China and America were in a confrontation at that point in time. What then happened a few weeks later, …

 

[0:43:01]

 

Keith Woods: That was the time the Hong Kong protests were going on.

 

Ron Unz: Exactly.

 

Keith Woods: This is part of Covid as well.

 

Ron Unz: Exactly. Hong Kong protests. And there’s a lot of suspicion that America, …

 

Keith Woods: Well I mean, they were definitely like, funded by the National Endowment.

 

Ron Unz: Exactly!

 

In other words, basically there were a lot of suspicions that the CIA or some of the American intelligence organizations were putting together the Hong Kong protests to basically cause trouble for China to disrupt China’s control over Hong Kong.

 

And again, I mean, that’s the sort of thing countries do all the time. But it seems to me that at that point in time, first of all, you’ve got to understand, I mean, China already had a larger, real economy than the United States. As far back as 2014, the Chinese economy was growing much more rapidly than the American economy, and it was larger in real terms and had been larger for a number of years. China was building up it’s military, and by all measures, all American national security experts agreed that China was America’s most formidable international rival down the road. And in the immediate terms, in other words, there was a feeling that Russia was weak, Russia was declining. America, anyway, had two to three times Russia’s population, a vastly larger economy than Russia.

 

So China was considered the future threat for the United States. And that’s actually why, for example, when Donald Trump became into office, one of his first actions was to take economic action against China.

 

In other words, saying, we have to reduce China’s economic strength. We have to cut our trade ties with China. We have to block, for example, China’s technological development. And America ended up kidnapping the chief financial officer of Huawei, restricting exports to Huawei, China’s most important technological company.

 

So, in other words, America was taking all these actions targeting China.

 

And so it just made me suspicious at the time that this mysterious viral epidemic breaks out in China at the point when America is most hostile to China.

 

And then a few other things came out, probably by about the end of January, I’d come across some other facts which I hadn’t been aware of at the time. First of all, the virus appeared in Wuhan probably towards the beginning of probably early November, possibly late October, but more likely early November.

 

Now, it turns out that was exactly when Wuhan was holding the international military game, the world military games, at that point in time. And there were 300 American military officers participating in those games in the city of Wuhan.

 

So just looking at it logically, if 300 Chinese military officers visited the city of Chicago in the United States, and immediately after they left, a mysterious viral epidemic suddenly broke out in the city of Chicago, it would certainly make people quite suspicious of what was going on.

 

I also found out that it turns out in the years 2018, there had been I probably should step back a little bit. This is stuff that basically I ended up working out five months, six months later, but really all ended up falling into place.

 

There’s a man, for example, named Robert Kadlec who for decades has been America’s leading biowarfare advocate. As far back as the 1990s, he was writing articles saying that biowarfare was the wave of the future. Biowarfare was the best means of severely damaging an international adversary and doing it in a plausibly deniable means, in other words, so that nobody could prove what was going on, a virus would appear in another country. And he pointed specifically at the use of viruses to damage the food supply and the economy of a geopolitical rival.

 

Now, it turns out Robert Kadlec was brought into the Trump administration in 2017. In 2018, China was suddenly hit by a mysterious viral epidemic that severely damaged it’s poultry industry.

 

Then in early 2019, right at the beginning of 2019, China was hit by another mysterious viral epidemic that wiped out 40% of China’s pig herds, the largest in the world and China’s primary meat source.

 

So, in other words, we have America basically elevating a top biowar for advocate to the Trump administration.

 

And then in the following two years.

 

[0:47:50]

 

Keith Woods: What position did you say he had?

 

Ron Unz: In the Trump administration? Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services, which, strangely enough, that’s Fauci’s area, in other words, basically, he ended up being, he was basically put in as America’s chief biowarfare expert or something like that. He actually served a similar role in the George W Bush administration about 10 or 15 years earlier, but he was brought in in 2017 in the Trump administration.

 

And then in 2018 and, 20019, China’s food supply was suddenly hit by these mysterious viral epidemics, with some claims that the swine flu was being spread by small drones.

 

In other words, there were rumours in China, there were stories going around that drones were spreading the disease throughout the entire country.

 

And then in late 2019, suddenly the Covid virus appeared in the city of Wuhan.

 

Now the city of Wuhan, even though most Americans have not heard of it, it’s one of China’s leading transit hubs. It’s a city of 11 million, and it’s the place where many of the rail lines converge.

 

China has Lunar New Year holidays, which are the equivalent of Christmas, New Year’s, and several other holidays all rolled into one. During Lunar New Year 450,000,000 Chinese typically travel. In other words, they basically travel to their ancestral villages. They travel back home again if they’ve been working in cities. So it’s by far the biggest holiday for China. Now, the virus appeared in the city of Wuhan.

 

Keith Woods: That’s in February, right?

 

Ron Unz: Exactly, that’s basically January, February, late January, early February. The virus appeared in the city of Wuhan and then started growing exponentially. So since it was a new virus that nobody heard of I mean, the Chinese only discovered it’s existence on the last day of December in 2019, and the Chinese didn’t even realize that it was contagious until early January 2019.

 

Once it then began spreading in the city of Wuhan, the Chinese finally, then in mid to late January, ended up instituting a severe lockdown and managed to stamp it out. But if they waited just a couple of weeks, the virus then would have spread throughout the entire city of Wuhan. And Wuhan, being a transit hub it would have spread out throughout the entire country of China with probably tens or hundreds of millions of Chinese being infected. The result of that.

 

Keith Woods: I’m just sharing an image on screen there for the audience, just to illustrate what you said about the Wuhan as a transportation hub. You can see in the green is Wuhan, and it’s right in the middle of all of these lines that connect these major cities like Shanghai and Guangzhou and so on.

 

Ron Unz: Exactly. Now, the whole thing about the virus, at first, nobody really knew how dangerous it was, and most of the evidence that come out later, obviously, it’s very much more dangerous to elderly people than younger people.

 

In other words, I think if you’re over 60, you have 100 times greater chance of dying than if you’re under 40. But overall, for the average American population, the death rate is something between 0.5 and 1%.

 

So in other words, we’re talking of a sort of bioweapon potentially that would not wipe out a population, but still it ended up killing about a million Americans.

 

So the result of that, if it had spread out throughout China, China would have to if tens of millions or hundreds of millions of Chinese have been infected, China then would have had to take tremendous economic measures, locking down the entire country to prevent millions upon millions of Chinese deaths. In a sense, China would have had to do, under those circumstances, very much what America end up doing once it’s spread back here. And so we would have seen tremendous disruption to Chinese society, disruption to the economy, as happened all around the world.

 

And so the point about it is probably the best way of looking at this type of virus, of these characteristics, is that it would have the characteristics of a very effective anti-economy bioweapon.

 

In other words, something that isn’t an anti-personnel weapon. It’s not intended to kill 30% or 50% or 70% of the population, but because it would be fatal to enough people, it would cause tremendous disruption in a society if it became widespread in that society.

 

So anyway, I’m jumping at it myself on some of that. But what I then ended up, as the pieces started coming together, one thing I discovered about a year later, which really was quite surprising, was, as I said, Robert Kadlec was America’s leading biowarfare advocate. And it turns out from January to August, 2019, he ran something called the Crimson Contagion Exercise, which was a federal state planning session, a series of exercises on how America would prevent leakage of a dangerous respiratory virus if such a virus were to appear in China.

 

So we’re talking about from January to August, 2019, America, under it’s chief biowarfare advocate, ran this massive planning exercises exercise to prepare itself for the appearance of a potentially dangerous Covid like virus in China. And such a virus then appeared in the city of Wuhan, just a couple of months later, which seems an awfully remarkable coincidence, if it were a coincidence.

 

Another factor which, …

 

Keith Woods: Can I just ask. I’m just imagining, like, someone that’s skeptical, listen to what they’d be then pushing back. Why did the US seem so kind of unprepared for the whole thing? It took a few months to even react, right?

 

[0:54:01]

 

Ron Unz: Exactly. America’s reaction was unbelievably incompetent.

 

I mean, the whole thing about it is not only that, but we botched the production of the CDC testing kit.

 

In other words, we did almost everything wrong. You can imagine the scenario I’m talking about, this sort of biowarfare scenario. The key factor to keep in mind is there’s absolutely no evidence that Donald Trump himself was at all aware of or involved of what was going on.

 

In fact, there’s tremendous evidence that he was absolutely not aware of what had happened. When the Covid virus started leaking back to the United States, and infecting people here, Trump basically said, oh, it wasn’t a problem, it would go away itself, people should ignore it, it wasn’t dangerous, that sort of thing.

 

So there’s absolutely no chance that he under my scenario, that he would have been aware of what had happened.

 

My argument is that it probably was an action taken by lower level officials in the Trump administration, probably a small hand.

 

Keith Woods: Wouldn’t they have foreseen that America won’t be prepared for this, and this will potentially do as much damage to the US?

 

Ron Unz: You see, part of it is that America dominates the world of propaganda.

 

In other words, America really dominates the world of media and propaganda. And one problem is you sometimes tend to believe your own propaganda.

 

Remember when the SARS epidemic, the original Coronavirus epidemic, suddenly appeared in China in 2002 and, 20003. It never spread much outside of China. It had a very high fatality rate, I think it was 20% or 30%.

 

So it was a very dangerous virus, but very few people outside of China were ever infected or died. It never spread to the United States, I don’t think. I think maybe one person died in the entire country. When the MERS epidemic, another Coronavirus suddenly appeared in the Middle East. I think it was 2007, 2008, something like that. It never much spread outside the Middle East, and not a single American ever died of MERS. So we had these two previous waves of Coronavirus infection, both of them natural.

 

In other words, they found the animal reservoir, neither of which had done any damage to the United States, it turns out. The National Health Organization, in late 2019, did a study on which countries in the world were best prepared to cope with any epidemic that might appear. Any dangerous epidemic. America was ranked number one. Britain was ranked number two.

 

In other words, all the West European countries were considered to have the best healthcare systems at coping with any epidemic of any sort that might appear. China was down around 50 or 60.

 

So in other words, anybody naively looking at all these international comparisons would have thought, well, SARS never got to the United States, MERS never got to the United States. The previous Coronavirus epidemics from the Middle East and from China had never done any damage to the United States. All the international bodies agree that America is best prepared at coping for any respiratory or other epidemic that might happen.

 

And so they might have believed that by organizing these exercises, eight months worth of planning for potentially dangerous Chinese virus that might appear that plus these other steps would basically safeguard America from any significant blowback. So it’s possible a few Americans would be infected, a few Americans would die, but by contrast, China potentially would be devastated.

 

In other words, hundreds of millions of Chinese might have been infected if the Chinese hadn’t reacted as quickly as they did.

 

And so the problem was the reality ended up being very different.

 

In other words, partly because of Trump’s basically unwillingness to confront the virus once it started leaking back into the United States, America basically just reacted very, very poorly.

 

And in fact, we had no idea how to cope with it.

 

In other words, our testing kits didn’t work. We refused to use the German testing kit that they’d already produced. And so for that reason, we had no idea what we do. And we ended up implementing lockdowns, then off and on for about a year or two, and then a controversial vaccination drive after that.

 

So the problem is, the scenario I’m talking about is not a scenario where America’s national security establishment as an organized body spent months or years planning and biowarfare attack against China.

 

The scenario I’m talking about is a small group of individuals, probably one or two of them near the top of the Trump administration, deciding to take this step without Trump being aware of it, without getting his authorization and simply deploying the resources, the lower level resources of the American national security establishment in this action, but without Trump or the top officials knowing what had happened.

 

[0:59:15]

 

And so, because Trump didn’t realize the virus was dangerous, he basically prevented any effective reaction once the virus unexpectedly leaked here and started infecting people. And there are a lot of other factors involved as well.

 

One early thing that made me extremely suspicious about the virus being more than it seemed was the fact that the second country in the world hit the hardest with Covid early on was Iran.

 

In other words, Iran became the second epicenter of the Covid world-wide outbreak, even though it has one of the lowest Chinese populations in the world.

 

In other words, only a few thousand Chinese people live in Iran, while the other countries that were fairly early, like, for example, northern Italy, has 300,000 Chinese living and working there, many of whom had returned from the Lunar New Year holidays and been infected and carried the infection there. Spain was another very country early infected. 150,000 Chinese live and work in Spain. So we had countries that basically had hundreds of thousands of Chinese, as you would expect, getting early infections with Covid because they got it from travels back to China.

 

And then you had the holy city of Qom, the centre of Iran’s political and religious establishment, becoming the epicenter of Iran’s Covid outbreak sooner than anyone, any other country in the world. And the infections hitting China’s political and religious elite. For example, 10% of Iran’s entire Parliament became infected by Covid before a single political figure anywhere else in the world had become infected. And that all happened.

 

In other words, if you trace back the pattern of infections in Iran, the first Iranians probably became infected just two or three weeks after America had assassinated Iran’s top military commander, general Kostam Suleimani.

 

So in other words, we have a situation where America assassinates Iran’s top military commander, and just a few weeks later, the Iranian political elites are infected with this mysterious virus, even though Iran has much less of a connection to China than most of these other countries that have not yet been infected. Not only that, but at the time all this was happening, I really was very surprised that nobody in the world noticed what was happening in Iran.

 

I mean, the fact that the Iranian infections had happened right after Iran’s top military commander had been assassinated and I couldn’t imagine why the Iranians hadn’t noticed what I noticed just by reading the newspapers. And then I found out a year later, not only did the Iranians accuse America of having launched a biowarfare attack against Iran and China, it was in all the Iranian newspapers. The Iranian political leaders accused them. They even filed a formal complaint with the United Nations accusing America of having launched a Covid biowarfare attack against Iran. But none of it was ever reported in the American media.

 

[1:02:21]

 

So in other words, it never got into the New York Times, it never got into the Washington Post, it never got into the Wall Street Journal.

 

So Americans were simply not aware of the fact that the Iranians were accusing America of having launched a biowarfare attack.

 

So we have a situation where basically the two countries in the world at that point in time that America was most hostile towards were China and Iran. And those were the two countries hit with this mysterious viral epidemic that had characteristics later argued obviously came from laboratory. And that’s actually something I should say from the beginning. I’m not somebody who is a trained virologist. I’m not a microbiologist. So I’ve generally stayed away from the science aspects of the issue, even though my background is in physics. Physics is not microbiology.

 

So the point about it is I can’t say whether the virus itself is natural or artificial. But there’s been a tremendous amount of evidence that’s come. Out over the last year or two. That the virus. That the characteristics of the virus, the genetic characteristics of the virus, the [word unclear] and cleavage sites. Other aspects of the virus are exactly the sort of thing you would expect to be produced in a laboratory and are very different than would defined in any of the other Coronaviruses that would be found in nature.

 

So, in other words, the individuals who are advocating the lab leak hypothesis are really making two separate points. They’re pointing to a tremendous amount of evidence that the virus was produced in a laboratory, the virus was a product of bioengineering, the virus did not come from nature.

 

And then they’re making the case that, well, if it came from a laboratory, well, there’s the Wuhan Institute of Virology in the city of Wuhan. That’s obviously a place that must have come from the problem is that there’s very, very little evidence that the virus either was created in the Wuhan Institute of Virology or that there was any lab leak in that Institute.

 

For example, just to give an example, early on, there were all these claims made of, for example, people having gotten sick in the laboratory or the virus having spread earlier, but there’s really very little evidence for any of that.

 

And in fact, there have been some quite a lot of detailed examinations of the timing involved. And the timing really shows that virtually nobody in China was aware of any virus spreading until right towards the end of December, in other words, long after the virus had appeared in the city of Wuhan.

 

Furthermore, an Australian biologist named Danielle Anderson was actually working at the Wuhan Institute of Technology during the period in question. She was very friendly with the people. It’s a research Institute. It’s not a biowarfare lab or anything like that. And she specifically says she’s seen absolutely no sign that a virus of that type was being worked on in the laboratory, was being developed there. There were no indications of any lab leak having occurred, and she’s very skeptical of anything like that having happened.

 

Some Western journalists then interviewed a lot of the people at the laboratory, and there’s simply no indication that any of them were aware of anything going on, any sort of lab leak or anything like that.

 

Furthermore, when you look at the pattern of infections in the city of Wuhan, the pattern of infections is on the other side of the city from the Wuhan Institute of Technology.

 

So, in other words, if the virus had leaked out of the laboratory, you would expect at least some of the early infections to be in the vicinity of the laboratory. But instead, it’s about ten or 12 miles away on the other side of the river, centreed on the wet market that people were often talking about.

 

In other words, that’s clearly where the virus first appeared.

 

[1:06:22]

 

So we’re talking about a situation where there’s really quite a lot of scientific evidence and a lot of people who have great deal of expertise on the structure of viruses, on DNA issues say that the virus very clearly came from a laboratory, was bioengineered.

 

In fact, someone like, for example, Professor Jeffrey Sachs, who was the chairman of the Lancet’s Covid Commission, he really became very suspicious that the people he’d put on the commission who were investigating the origins of the virus were simply covering up the fact that the virus was artificial rather than natural.

 

In fact, many of the early statements that have come out, you have all these experienced biologists saying what they looked at. The structure, the structure of the virus clearly came from a laboratory.

 

In other words, it’s not the sort of thing you would expect to come from nature. So essentially, there are three possibilities. There’s the natural scenario, the lab leak, accidental lab leak scenario, and the third scenario, which I think is by far the most likely, which is the deliberate biowarfare scenario.

 

Most advocates of the lab leak scenario spend their time and effort arguing that the virus was bioengineered in a laboratory, that it has characteristics, genetic characteristics of that sort, and they have very little evidence to supporting anything like a lab leak having happened at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

 

Most of the supporters of the natural virus theory focus on the fact that there’s very little evidence of a lab leak. And when you look at, for example, the spread of early infections, it’s on the other side of the city. There’s simply no evidence for any lab leak having occurred. And they tend to soft pedal the characteristics of the virus itself, which arguably seem quite likely to have been produced in a laboratory.

 

So we’re talking about a situation where if you look at the third scenario, which I think has the advantages of the other two, but none of the disadvantages, we’re talking about a situation where America is in a major confrontation with China and Iran, the two countries America is most hostile towards.

 

America has the oldest and largest biowarfare programme in the world. We’ve probably spent about $100 billion over the last 60 or 70 years on biowarfare, and suddenly a mysterious virus breaks out in China and Iran, hitting those countries right after America spent eight months in the Crimson Contagion Exercise, preparing itself for the possible appearance of a dangerous respiratory virus in China.

 

And so all of that, I think, is really quite strong evidence. But there’s one piece of evidence that really constitutes something closer to a smoking gun.

 

As I said, Donald Trump almost certainly had nothing to do with this.

 

And by the way, I should say that under normal circumstances, the notion of America or any major country launching a biowarfare attack against a leading international adversary without the leader of that country, without the President of the United States being aware of it, is utterly ridiculous. But the Trump administration was not a normal administration.

 

In other words, there were all these other things going on that were entirely kept away from Donald Trump.

 

In fact, some of the stories came out afterwards. Some of Donald Trump’s top aides would hide his own Executive Orders from his desk.

 

Keith Woods: I remember there was something published in the New York Times where it was like the headline was something like, I’m a member of the Deep State, and I’m sabotaging Trump’s administration plan to be a senior member.

 

Ron Unz: They just ignored him totally. Again, what I’m talking about in this case is a small group of individuals deciding that America has to strike a major blow against China, it’s greatest long term adversary, severely damaging the Chinese economy, maybe even causing the overthrow of the regime, and also probably striking Iran at the same time. And obviously, they really felt, well, Trump is not the sort of person to bring it into the loop on something like this.

 

So the fact that Trump was totally unaware of this meant that when the virus started leaking into the United States in the way that nobody really expected at the time, our reactions, trump basically told people to ignore it, pay no attention to it, forget about it. It would go away by itself. And so we ended up having a huge epidemic. By April, tens of thousands of Americans were becoming infected, and many of them were dying. It was spreading around the country. It was a gigantic disaster.

 

So for very obvious reasons, our intelligence agencies decided to try to explain to the public that they were not the ones responsible for this horrible disaster that potentially could kill hundreds of thousands of Americans. And four separate intelligence sources went to ABC News and told them that the Defense Intelligence Agency, one of our leading intelligence agencies, had produced an intelligence report describing this potentially cataclysmic disease outbreak taking place in the city of Wuhan, had distributed to our top officials, had sent it to the White House and ignore it.

 

[1:11:46]

 

So in other words, the intelligence agencies were trying through the leak, through the leak to ABC News, to explaining that they had warned the government of what was going on. They had warned of this terrible epidemic taking place in the city of Wuhan and the danger of it spreading. And the government, the White House had just ignored the problem.

 

So it wasn’t the fault of the intelligence agencies. And basically, it’s exactly the sort of thing you would expect them to do they basically had a secret intelligence report.

 

Now, the truth is, probably many, many of these reports are constantly being produced, warning of all sorts of things going around the world.

 

And so it’s not too surprising that Trump paid no attention to it. But the key thing is, the date of the report was November. It was early November when the report was produced.

 

So, in other words, in early November, the Defense Intelligence Agency had produced a secret report describing a potentially cataclysmic disease outbreak taking place in the city of Wuhan before there was an outbreak in the city of Wuhan.

 

In other words, according to most of the current timelines, probably in early November, there might have been ten or 15 people who’d just gotten infected in the city of Wuhan and were starting to feel a little sick. In a city of 11 million, there’s no way the Defense Intelligence Agency or any outside source could have been aware of what was happening at that time.

 

So that, in effect, was a smoking gun of foreign knowledge of the events. Now, as you can imagine, the Pentagon immediately denied the existence of the report, even though four separate intelligence sources had confirmed the fact that the report existed when they leaked it to ABC News. And it had been reported by the top people at ABC, the Pentagon, when they realized they were talking about November, that the report had been produced in November, they claimed the report had never existed.

 

But then a week later, Israeli TV reported the fact that naturally the report existed. The report had been sent to Israel, the report had been sent to all of our NATO allies, the report certainly existed, and the report had been produced in the second week of November.

 

So we’re talking about a situation where the Defense Intelligence Agency had produced a secret report distributed to our NATO allies, to Israel, and to our top government officials about a potentially cataclysmic disease outbreak taking place in the city of Wuhan before any significant number of people have been infected. And that is exactly the sort of thing that I think demonstrates foreknowledge, again confirmed, …

 

[1:14:27]

 

Keith Woods: Just for the people watching what should people search just to find that specific report, because an interest in the report?

 

Ron Unz: No copy of the report was ever actually leaked.

 

In other words, we don’t have a copy of the report, but it was reported by four sources to ABC News and then separately confirmed by Israel that it was sent to Israel and our NATO allies. And they describe the report and that sort of thing. It’s in my articles, and in fact, there’s sort of a summary that provides links to the ABC News story and the Israeli TV news story that explain the nature of the report.

 

So we’re talking about a situation where if you have foreknowledge of something like that, it’s very, very difficult to explain that unless at least some people in the American government were aware of the disease outbreak before anybody in China.

 

In other words, there’s absolutely no evidence that anybody in China and the Chinese government was aware of the virus invisibly spreading in the city of Wuhan until right towards the end of December, six or seven weeks after the American Defense Intelligence Agency had produced a report talking about this potentially cataclysmic disease outbreak taking place in the city of Wuhan.

 

So when you’re talking about something like that, again, that is basically the hard information we have. We have these news stories. ABC News, the New York Times reported the Crimson Contagion Exercise that went on for eight months right prior to the appearance of the virus.

 

The scenario, I think that’s most plausible to explain that evidence is, again, a small group of officials, probably one or two of whom might have been near the top of the Trump administration, decided to deal a severe blow to our Chinese and Iranian adversaries using an anti-economy bioweapon of the sort releasing in Wuhan and then separately releasing in the whole city of Qom, infecting them and damaging them.

 

And then they probably then notified individuals in the Defense Intelligence Agency saying that they had some intelligence report about some disease epidemic in the city of Wuhan.

 

In other words, it’s not at all clear whether anybody who produced the report in the Defense Intelligence Agency would have been aware of what I believe was an American biowarfare attack against China. It’s simply that they would have then been leaked intelligence probably by some of the conspirators.

 

Keith Woods: Wouldn’t you expect China to be aware of this, China’s own intelligence agencies and so on? And would you have expected them to go public with this?

 

Ron Unz: That’s the whole thing.

 

In other words, the Chinese, early in 2020, in February and March 2020, started making some accusations towards the United States.

 

In other words, they basically claimed the virus had been brought to China, probably by American participants in the Wuhan war exercises.

 

Keith Woods: They haven’t been disclaimed?

 

Ron Unz: Again, they’ve never specifically accused America of a biowarfare attack.

 

In other words, they’ve claimed America probably brought the virus to China, without specifying the circumstances. And I think probably part of it is there’s no proof.

 

In other words, it’s not that the Chinese or anybody else has proof. America dominates the world media. And so if the Chinese made accusations, people would say, well, where’s your proof? And they wouldn’t really have any proof.

 

In other words, what I’ve explained right here is, I think, a lot of strong evidence in favour of this scenario, but it’s not hard proof.

 

In other words, there’s absolutely no hard proof. It’s not like we have a confession by any of the participants of the world military games or anything like that. And the other thing to remember is the Iranians did specifically accuse America of a biowarfare attack. Their media reported, the top leaders reported it. Nothing happened.

 

In other words, the world media, which is under the control of the West, totally ignored the Iranian accusations and it did them no good at all.

 

Keith Woods: Arguably the US, just after killing Soleimani. You’d imagine Iran would maybe accuse the US of being involved regardless, right?

 

Ron Unz: Well, that’s actually one reason they did it, is because the timing. In other words, the fact that the disease outbreak hit the Iranian political elites like three weeks after we’d assassinated their top military commander. I mean that sort of coincidence is just so amazingly strong. I mean, you know, the whole thing is the fact that the virus allegedly jumped 4,000 or 5,000 miles from the city of Wuhan in China, all the way to the holy city of Qom in Iran, which has almost no Chinese population, was just a very implausible thing.

 

And so the Iranians naturally put two and two together and accused America, but again, they didn’t have any proof.

 

Another thing I should mention is back, …

 

[1:19:28]

 

Keith Woods: You think there would have been a separate leak done by the US in Iran?

 

Ron Unz: Yeah.

 

In other words, there’s no way. It’s very unlikely it would have suddenly jumped thousands of miles to a city with almost no Chinese population. It’s possible, …

 

Keith Woods: I guess maybe one objection is you said like previous SARS viruses, like they didn’t leave China so the people conspiring this would have thought, well, this will do damage to China, but we won’t really have to worry about it. But if they were looking at the Covid virus specifically, what seems to make it unique is how contagious it is and how easily it spreads.

 

And even in January 2020, there were people saying like, restrictions lockdowns, that would all be pointless because the way this virus functions, there’s basically nothing we can do except let it spread. It’s too contagious to do anything about.

 

So the theoretical people planning this, would that not have factored in that, well, this is so contagious that it would be impossible to confine it to China and Iran and the whole West is going to have to deal with it.

 

Ron Unz: It obviously ended up being a total disaster. What you’re saying is exactly what happened. But remember the scenario.

 

Keith Woods: So you think they probably didn’t take exactly how the virus would, …

 

Ron Unz: Well, the whole thing about it is the scenario I’m talking about is typically when a government like the United States might consider an action like this, it probably would go through 20 levels of planning stages.

 

In other words, we’re talking about a huge number of different individuals being brought into setting up the procedures for something like that, going through all these different possibilities.

 

The scenario I’m talking about was basically a rogue operation run by probably a small group of conspirators in the Trump administration. Since it was a rogue operation that was kept away from Trump himself and kept away from most of other top officials, they couldn’t have basically had all these planning sessions. It was probably just a small group of people who really ran the thing more in a seat of the pants operation.

 

In other words, basically they assumed that some of these defensive measures like the Crimson Contagion Exercise, the fact that the SARS virus hadn’t spread, the fact that the DIA secret report would warn of the epidemic taking place in Wuhan. They probably believe that the combination of those factors and America’s outstanding public health system ranked internationally as the best in the world at coping with any epidemic.

 

Keith Woods: When you say elements of the Trump administrator, are you mentioning something like a John Bolton type figure that’s working with elements of the CIA?

 

Ron Unz: Probably the two most likely suspects.

 

And again, there’s no way of telling who would have been involved under my scenario, but the two most likely suspects, I think, would probably be Mike Pompeo, the Secretary of State who’d previously been head of the CIA, or John Bolton, the National Security adviser. They were both ferociously anti-China. They were the leaders.

 

Keith Woods: Pompeo was very bullish, very against China, I think. Wasn’t he head of the CIA when the Hong Kong protest. There’s a suggestion that he may have been heavily involved there.

 

Ron Unz: Exactly. And for example, and John Bolton, by some accounts, John Bolton, we basically ended up kidnapping the CFO of Huawei, the daughter of the founder, when she was changing planes in a Canadian airport, and we ended up holding her for about a year, a year and a half.

 

I mean, it really almost caused a complete rupture with China. Allegedly, John Bolton ordered that, the seizure of a top Chinese business leader without informing Donald Trump.

 

In fact, the story came out about six months ago. Donald Trump afterwards said, but you arrested somebody who’s like the equivalent of my daughter in China. Why did you do that? And Bolton basically had done it without Trump’s permission.

 

So when things like that happen, when America basically arrests one of China’s top executives and potentially imprisons her for 20 years in the United States and it’s done by John Bolton, without informing Donald Trump of what he’s doing.

 

I mean, that’s exactly the scenario I’m talking about, where you had Pompeo and Bolton, either of them being senior enough to have organized something like this with a small group of conspirators around them.

 

In other words, their aides, their assistants. But I think probably someone like that could have arranged something like this. And the whole thing about it is, from their point of view, Trump, they probably regarded as being they probably didn’t want to take the risk of raising this sort of possibility with someone like Trump and just basically deal a severe blow to China and Iran without Trump knowing about it.

 

And then, obviously, once it ended up being a gigantic disaster and a million Americans died as a consequence, with two years worth of lockdowns, with all the controversies over vaccines under that scenario, obviously the people involved would be very concerned about anybody being becoming aware of what happened.

 

[1:24:48]

 

Keith Woods: All right, just one other question, because I just imagined the other thing that the audience would maybe be skeptical of is how useful Covid would even be as means of economic warfare. I’m sure people will say, well, it only really killed people that were very elderly or had underlying conditions. And even if the Chinese didn’t deal with it with severe lockdowns or whatever, they could probably more or less get on with business as usual. That is kind of the, I think, sort of dominant consensus on Covid. Now, it’s maybe worse than the common cold, but not as serious as was originally taught when it entered the West?

 

Ron Unz: Right. Well, you’ve got to remember, right now we’re talking about the Omicron version of Covid which is much milder than the original Wuhan version. Also, at the time the virus first appeared, nobody would be sure about the fatality rate.

 

In other words, remember, the original SARS that appeared in China had, I think, something like a 15% fatality rate. And early on in the first few weeks, there were all these rumours going around that the virus was extremely deadly.

 

So, in other words, if you’re the Chinese government, and if you have a massive spread of this virus throughout your country and you don’t know anything about the fatality rate, you don’t know that it would generally be targeting only the elderly. You couldn’t take any risks.

 

So, in other words, if the virus had spread throughout the entire country, probably 10 or 15 million Chinese would have died.

 

In other words, the original version of the virus probably had a 0.5% to 1% fatality rate. China has 1.4 billion people.

 

So if you multiply it out, I mean, we’re talking about many, many millions or even tens of millions of deaths in the country, plus a complete collapse of the Chinese healthcare system because it wouldn’t only be the people who would be dying, but the people who would be very sick for a period of a few weeks.

 

And also, the thing about China is China is a country that is much more respectful of its elderly.

 

So, in other words, a disease that would kill a large fraction of their people in their 70s or 80s might be treated even as a greater risk than something in the West, where there isn’t as much respect for elderly, including, for example, the party leaders in China.

 

So the whole thing about it is I’m not saying, for example, that the virus involved necessarily would have wiped out China’s entire population, but it probably was sufficiently contagious and sufficiently deadly that a country like China would have had to take very strong lockdown measures to control it. And if hundreds of millions of Chinese had been infected, it would have had a devastating impact on Chinese society.

 

The interesting thing about it is there was actually a 40 year veteran of American biowarfare who ended up writing a number of pieces on the Internet. And I ended up checking into his background, and it looks like he probably is exactly what he claimed to be. And he really was arguing it was basically in January when I came across some of his statements. He argued that the ideal sort of anti-economy bioweapon is something with a low fatality rate, but a very high rate of contagion.

 

In other words, something that was very infectious but had low fatality rates would tremendously disrupt a society.

 

In other words, if you had something, for example, that would simply kill 10% of the population, it probably would do less damage to a society than something that would infect 80%, 70 or 80% of the population. Even if only made the people sick and only killed a small fraction of them, it would tremendously disrupt a society.

 

So the point about is if the original Covid virus had spread around China, killed many, many millions or even tens of millions of Chinese and devastated the country, you could easily imagine the result would be a collapse of order in China.

 

In other words, people would blame the government for having failed in its mission to protect them. I mean, just like for example, look at all the incredible anger there’s been in the West over the fact that the governments have fallen down on the job with regard to the lockdowns, with regard to all these other policies.

 

So the point about it is, again, it wasn’t designed to be 100% effective at destroying China, but it was probably felt by the people involved that it would have a good chance of dealing a severe body blow to China, damaging the Chinese economy, damaging Chinese society and destroying much of the political legitimacy of the ruling Communist Party, which it probably would have if they hadn’t reacted as effectively as they did.

 

Because remember, even in the last six months, or a year, there’s been a lot of growing resentment in China towards the endless lockdowns to control the virus. And that’s despite the fact that the West and the rest of the world had suffered much more severely over the last couple of years than China did.

 

So in other words, there was some loss of legitimacy in the Chinese government even under the circumstances where 20 million people have died around the world with almost nobody dying in China until very recently.

 

So the whole point about bioweapons, as Robert Kadlec had written back in the 1990s, they’re a plausibly deniable means of severely damaging an international adversary.

 

In other words, there’s no proof America had attacked China or Iran or any of these other countries with bioweapons.

 

And so there’s nothing really the Chinese or the Iranians could say internationally that the global media which America controls would take seriously.

 

Well, one other point I should make is about six or eight months ago, the Russian general in charge of biological warfare held a press conference focused on the biolabs, whatever the 20 or 30 biolabs that Russia claims to have found in Ukraine. Biological warfare labs that he claimed were preparing biological attacks on Russia. And he actually specifically accused America of having released Covid as a biowarfare attack against the rest of the world, especially China and Iran.

 

And again, it got almost no attention in the American media. So probably very few Americans are aware of the fact that the Russian government has now officially accused America of having released Covid as a biowarfare.

 

So we’re talking about the Iranian government, the Russian government, and to some extent the Chinese government have all pointed the finger of blame at the United States. But since none of it is ever reported in a serious way in the American media or the Western media, probably very few Westerners are even aware of it.

 

[1:31:53]

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, it’s a very interesting theory. I mean, like you said, there’ll probably never be a smoking gun. We’ll probably never know for sure. But I think out of the three plausible theories that you laid out, I think that probably is the most plausible in terms of fitting with the facts and explaining things.

 

Ron Unz: It’s partly, I’d say it’s the process of elimination.

 

In other words, there seems to be a great deal of evidence that the Covid virus was bioengineered in a laboratory.

 

So the natural theory goes out the window.

 

And also they’ve never found an animal reservoir.

 

If it came from a laboratory. The two possibilities are the Wuhan lab that leaked out or the sort of biowarfare scenario I’m talking about. And the problem is there’s just no evidence of a Wuhan lab leak. And there seems to be a lot of other evidence that elements of the American national security establishment were aware of the viral epidemic before it happened.

 

So I think the combination of those two things is strong enough that it’s the sort of thing if the American media or even the alternative media began reporting the story, in other words, if it got almost any coverage at all, it could be facts would be shaken loose. But virtually all the coverage, probably 99% of all the discussion has either been natural virus or lab leak. And nobody is focused on any of this other evidence, even though it comes from mainstream media sources.

 

Keith Woods: Now, another thing you’ve been writing about recently, which I shared to my Telegram because obviously this has been hot topic of discussion the last few months is the topic of excess deaths. And I don’t know if I can even see that says the V [vaccine] word on YouTube. The terms are so ridiculous but related to medical treatments broadly for Covid.

 

But you’re one of the few people I’ve seen in the kind of brother Alt media sphere that kind of actually took a hard look at this and broke it down by demographics, by vaccination status, by country, by obesity and health status. And yeah, they’re very interested in the articles. People complain to me a lot that I don’t talk enough about the topic of side effects and excess deaths.

 

But honestly, it’s like the only pushback I’ve really seen from the stuff you’ve presented is kind of a lot of anecdotal evidence. There’s a lot of articles of people dying from heart attacks, young people. The problem with that is it seems like if you had Covid, you’re seven times more likely to get myocarditis from the vaccine. Obviously, those numbers could be wrong, but still, in a time when a lot of people have had Covid, which does affect the heart, you would expect there’d be more myocarditis.

 

I mean, that’s the only thing I noticed from having Covid myself that was different from any regular flu, is I was getting like, very sharp heart pains, which was a pretty weird experience. But yeah, we know it affects the heart.

 

But anyway, the basis of your article is you broke it down and showed that although there are a lot of excess deaths in the US, the UK, some other countries, if you break it down by the working age population, a lot of countries actually have a mortality deficit. They have less than what would be the expected number of deaths.

 

And there’s a few interesting things to come out of your article. I’ll pull it up in a second while you’re talking. I should have had already. But yeah, there’s a few interesting things to come out of me.

 

One thing is that there’s no real correlation that can be established between the vaccine rollout and the excess deaths. Like, a lot of countries that’s pointed to they had excess deaths prior to the vaccine rollout, and then they have mortality deficit after.

 

Countries that have low vaccine rollout, like Bulgaria, I think it only has like, 34% uptake of vaccines. They have much higher excess deaths than some countries that have very higher vaccine rollout. There’s countries with almost 100% that have mortality deficits.

 

So the long and the short of it is there isn’t any direct correlation you can establish based on the numbers between vaccine status and deaths, even if there’s a lot of stories of a lot of people dying right now that’s being shared around.

 

And the other thing was the obesity element that you analyzed. So trying to find an explanation, you broke it down by obesity and well, maybe I’ll let you explain that aspect of it.

 

[1:36:30]

 

Ron Unz: Sure. What I focused on is the single most important factor that gives you a high risk of dying from Covid is your age.

 

In other words, elderly people have a vastly greater chance of dying of Covid than younger people. I think it’s probably if you’re over 60, you have 100 times higher chance of dying than if you’re under 40.

 

So the point is, when you’re looking at individual countries and seeing, for example, what the pattern is with vaccinations or with Covid deaths, excess deaths, it’s probably better to focus on the working age population. People who are I think the figure is generally from about 16 to about 60, 16 to about 64 in that age range. So that you’re sort of getting out of the fact that some countries have much higher elderly populations than other countries.

 

And then when I simply looked at those countries, I saw America had probably the highest rate of excess deaths of any country in the working age population. And strangely enough, the other countries with very high excess deaths were not the ones you’d sort of imagine.

 

In other words, basically, Canada, which had very different has a very different political system than the United States had very high excess deaths as well. Britain had high excess deaths. A few other countries did as well. While in the other countries, like Sweden or Denmark or the Netherlands had relatively low excess deaths. And the pattern seemed to be, more than anything else, it was due to obesity.

 

In other words, if you look at the charts of national obesity, those countries that have the highest rate of national obesity seem to have the highest rate of working age excess deaths. Which isn’t that surprising, because we know that Covid is much more dangerous to people who have weight problems, people who are obese than people who are thin or average weight.

 

So, in other words, it seemed to me that rather than looking at any patterns of vaccinations, or even the particular type of vaccination, the obesity factor was by far the most important element in determining the death rate, the excess death rate for working age populations. And when we’re talking about working age populations, excess deaths, we don’t have to worry about the fact of whether we’re talking about what they died, whether they died with Covid or whether they died from Covid. We’re simply talking about the total number of deaths in that country relative to deaths under normal circumstances for the few years before.

 

And so it seems to me that a lot of these concerns about vaccinations, I think, to be honest, are sort of misguided, or possibly due to the fact that in the United States we’ve had such a high rate of excess deaths. And the government the fact that the government and media in the United States has sacrificed the trust of so many Americans.

 

In other words, it’s been so dishonest about so many things for so many years that there’s naturally a sizable fraction of the American population that immediately becomes suspicious about anything the government or the authority or the media say on anything.

 

And so it seems to me that probably the obesity factor, just by looking at about 15 or 20 or 30 different countries, was the biggest factor in how much negative impact Covid had, how many people Covid killed outside of the elderly range.

 

Keith Woods: Now, one thing is, how is the expected deaths being calculated? Because for the countries that have a mortality deficit, this is something I’ve heard before for some of these projections is the expected deaths is based on the number of annual deaths from the past five years. Obviously, the past two, three years includes Covid itself. So maybe that expected number of deaths is higher than it should be, and then you get mortality deficit, but maybe you still have some excess deaths in there. Is that accounted for or how is, …

 

[1:40:36]

 

Ron Unz: There are lots of different ways of doing it.

 

So, in other words, every individual person can use the benchmark for excess deaths that they want. The one I was using was the simplest one possible.

 

In other words, in all of these countries, I just took the average deaths for the five previous years prior to the Covid epidemic, average prior to the Covid and comparing it now, that’s certainly not perfect.

 

In other words, for example, in some of these countries, there had been a steadily rising death rate over those five years.

 

And so it might be better to use, for example, a linear interpolation method or something like that. But the simplest possible method you can use is simply to average the deaths over the previous five years and compare it to the deaths for the last three years of the Covid epidemic. And that’s basically what I use in most of those countries.

 

Keith Woods: So, for example, I’m just sharing an image from the article you wrote.

 

So this is the US for 2022, ages 15 to 64, and orange is to say that there’s excess mortality.

 

So you can see it actually declines a little bit as the year goes on in 2022, which yeah, I don’t know what you make of that specifically, but I’ll pull up another one you included, which is the rate for France, where there’s actually a mortality deficit, like we said.

 

Ron Unz: Exactly.

 

Keith Woods: Yes, you can see that the blue is a mortality deficit.

 

So there’s actually less deaths than you would expect based on the five years prior to Covid.

 

Ron Unz: Right. And I mean, to some extent, we’re talking about, remember working age people where the death rate is normally very low with the lockdowns most of these countries had, the result was that, for example, regular illnesses like the ordinary flu was stamped out because of the lockdowns.

 

And also you had, for example, a decline generally in traffic accidents because fewer people were driving, factors like that. So it depends country by country. And I’m certainly not saying the differences are necessarily as enormous as those two tables there.

 

But when you’re looking at 30 or 40 different countries, each of them over three or four years, and the pattern seems very clear, that the ones with excess mortality in the working age population are the ones that have the highest obesity rates in the world charts that points towards obesity as being a very large factor. And it’s sort of interesting.

 

One thing I hadn’t realized is that for some reason, the countries in the Anglo sphere the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Britain tend to have much higher obesity rates than most of the other Western countries. I don’t know exactly why. Maybe it’s Western advertising, American advertising or something like that. But for example, you have much lower levels of obesity in the continent or in the Scandinavian countries than you do, for example, in Australia or Canada or Britain, and that seems to be the closest, the most important factor with excess deaths with Covid.

 

Keith Woods: Another thing I could think of in terms of trying to sort of steelman the other position of people we listen to this is could you say, okay, so we see some countries have a mortality deficit, but if we had two, three years of Covid couldn’t you say, like, Covid wiped out the low hanging fruit? In a sense, like it killed a lot of people.

 

And so then there are people that maybe would have died in 2022 or 23, but now they’re already dead. So then, basically, if you have a couple of years where there’s a lot of excess deaths and people with underlying conditions and overweight people are dying, then you’d expect that a couple of years after that, you’ll have a lot less excess deaths because, like I said, the kind of low hanging fruit is gone. So is that something you’re factored in? Because then maybe you could still have excess deaths against what you’d actually expect if you factor that in.

 

But if you compare it to the five years prior to Covid, it looked like a mortality deficit.

 

Ron Unz: Right. But what’s interesting is many of those countries had deficit mortality from the beginning of the Covid epidemic.

 

In other words, the deficit mortality began in 2020 and it continued in 2021 and, 20022.

 

So, in other words, there was no increase in deaths during the period of those years, despite the fact that, for example, many of them had very heavy vaccination drives.

 

Another example, which I focused on later in a later article, was that probably the country in the world that had the highest elderly population, the highest percentage of elderly population was actually Japan.

 

In other words, Japan had a much larger elderly population relative to its overall size than any other country in the world. I think 50% larger percentage or twice as large as any as the next most country in the world. So you’d expect a very high rate of Covid deaths in Japan for that reason. Also, Japan then had one of the world’s most extreme vaccination drives.

 

In other words, there was probably more vaccine in Japan than almost any other country around the world. And the result was Japan basically had relatively low mortality rates compared to most other countries.

 

So, in other words, when a country with a high elderly population that follows a very heavy vaccine schedule with boosting and vaccine still has relatively low deaths, to me, that’s evidence that the vaccinations aren’t nearly as dangerous as some people say.

 

[1:46:16]

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, I encourage everyone watching again to go and check out the archives. If you just search Ron on American Pravda, you’ll find the archive there. And I think that the Covid ones are all included in that because I’m sure a lot of the audience will be very triggered by that take, but I’d invite them to try and go through your article and disprove it because I tried to sort of steelman that position. But they’re the two objections that I could think of but you’ve dealt with them. And I really think what you presented in terms of cross analyzing the data is pretty solid.

 

But I guess that gets us to another question, actually, which again relates to another one of your articles, which I really liked, which is I think it’s called Alex Jones Cass Sunstein and Cognitive Infiltration. It’s something like that. I shared on my Telegram a while back. But it relates to the phenomenon of conspiracy theories, and obviously neither of us are blanket against conspiracy theories.

 

I mean, if people look at the American Bravo series, right, you have alternative texts on 9/11 and JFK, and your Covid theory and a host of other things. But you did analyze this phenomenon, which is interesting, the idea of cognitive infiltration. That there was this advisor to Barack Obama, Cass Sunstein, that wrote a paper where he talked about flooding the discourse of conspiracy theories to kind of introduce bad or ridiculous theories to kind of discredit anti-government narratives. It was actually Michael Collins Piper that talked about this a lot. You cited one of his books.

 

You thought an example of this was like the Sandy Hook thing, the narrative of crisis actors, which is a narrative that’s kind of persisted. I’ve seen that for other events like that since.

 

But maybe an obvious example people could think of is like some of the ridiculous theories that went around about 9/11. Like, that there was no planes, that there were holograms or missiles or something. But yeah, just a lot of very bad, very weird conspiracies related to 9/11.

 

I’m just curious because you’re obviously pushing this theory about the origins of Covid but at the same time, there’s been a lot of, I think, very bad, very weird conspiracies that have popped up on the Right since the origin of Covid And it seems like it kind of shifted the Right into a much more sort of conspiratorial frame. Like suddenly this old sort of Birch Society narrative about the UN controlling the world or Klaus Schwab and Bill Gates implementing global communism. This was like the very popular new frame among the Right. I’m kind of surprised in how mainstream it’s gone in terms of establishment. Conservatives talk about that kind of thing now, but you’re obviously pushing a theory about the origins of Covid.

 

But then you have theories out there. Covid doesn’t exist. There was these weird, like 5G theories I remember back in 2020, actually, I remember those few months. It was a weird time in terms of all the I almost forget about some of them, but like the 5G theory that there was nanobots going to be activated by 5G towers, all this kind of stuff.

 

So, yeah, I’m just curious. Do you think that was a case of what you described with the cognitive infiltration and flooding the zone with bad narratives. Do you think we’re seeing a lot of that on the Right?

 

[1:49:48]

 

Ron Unz: I think that’s very possible.

 

In other words, if you’re trying to basically hide something that is as serious as the scenario I’m talking about, one way of doing it is obviously just as you’re saying, to sort of flood the zone with a proliferation of every possible conspiracy theory so as to distract people, have them wandering off in different directions.

 

I mean, the strange thing about it is, in nearly all ways, my Covid scenario is actually a very mainstream establishment sort of scenario.

 

In other words, almost everything I’m saying about Covid is pretty much what you’d find in the New York times or most of these other publications, with the one exception being that it was an American biowarfare attack.

 

Now, the fact that America spent probably $100 billion on its biowarfare infrastructure over the last 60 or 70 years, the fact that we have the world’s largest biowarfare program, the fact that it’s the oldest biowarfare program, the fact that, again, it’s been giving out money through the Eco Health Alliance and all these other groups monitoring bio facilities around the world. I mean, all that is stuff you can just read in the New York times.

 

And the one element that is never discussed in the mainstream media is the possibility that elements of the American government might have used that biowarfare infrastructure.

 

And the truth is, when a mysterious, dangerous virus suddenly appears in the two countries that America is most hostile towards.

 

I mean, it’s not all that irrational to start wondering whether it might have been an American biowarfare attack. And when you start looking at the facts, I mean, one reason I’ve often said people are so reluctant even to raise this possible issue is because once they do, the pattern is so clear, the evidence is so strong.

 

I mean, the fact that basically the top Iranian leadership was infected with Covid in the holy city of Qom just a few weeks after we’d assassinated their top military commander.

 

I mean, that’s an awfully remarkable coincidence! And when all of these factors are brought into play, I think probably people would fairly quickly decide it’s at least as plausible as the other scenarios that they’ve been discussing.

 

So the problem is, once you sort of open the door, I think you’ll have a lot of people starting to ask themselves whether a million Americans died and we had years worth of lockdowns because of the blowback from a botched American biowarfare attack. And when you’re talking about, for example, Americans.

 

I mean, the suffering Americans underwent, I mean, probably the Covid epidemic, including everything about it, all the lockdowns, the deaths, the controversy over the vaccines, everything like that this is the worst disaster to hit the United States since the Great Depression. I mean, huge numbers of deaths huge amount of inconvenience. Our entire economy was disrupted.

 

And the fact that there’s a very real possibility it was because of a botched American biowarfare attack is probably almost too horrifying for most Americans to even contemplate. But we really have to ask ourselves, why did we get ourselves into the situation?

 

In other words, America’s biowarfare facilities had already gotten back in the 19, I think it was around 1968 or 1969, there was a famous case of a nerve gas facility in Utah that leaked and it killed 5000 sheep. If the wind had blown in a different direction, the nerve gas would have probably devastated Salt Lake City, Utah, and probably killed tens of thousands of Americans. For that reason, Richard Nixon, president Richard Nixon a year or two later, ended up announcing that we were terminating, we were abandoning our biowarfare facilities, and we signed on to international conventions to ban biowarfare. So in theory, biowarfare has been banned all these years, but it’s been brought in through the back door under the grounds of biodefense.

 

In other words, there’s really no difference between biodefense and biowarfare.

 

In other words, the argument is you produce all these dangerous viruses so that you can better defend against them. And the problem is whether it’s a lab leak or whether it’s something else. I mean, we’ve now had probably 20 million people around the world die from the impact of Covid. And if Covid had been more dangerous, if it had mutated in a more dangerous rather than a less dangerous direction, we could have had many, many tens of millions of deaths around the world.

 

So I just think it’s just unconscionable that neither the media, neither the mainstream media, nor even almost any of the alternative media until very recently has been willing to look at the facts regarding the Covid outbreak and the evidence that I’ve been writing about now for three years.

 

One thing I should say is, in the last few months I’ve been very impressed with the work that’s been done by the Daily Skeptic, which is a British alternative newspaper, alternative media outlet focused on Covid. They’ve really had a series, the editor has had a series of very good articles going through a lot of these issues, connecting up the dots, and I’d certainly recommend them very much.

 

But, I mean, the point is, aside from The Daily Skeptic and aside from the work that I’ve done, a very small number of people here or there, almost all of the alternative media has been very unwilling to look at the reality of what probably happened.

 

And now that, for example, the Covid epidemic is winding down now, I think to some extent, probably the controversy over the health measures taken to control it are subsiding. I think it’s much more important that people go back and ask how this disaster happened, especially with some of the hearings that the Republicans are now having in the House about the efforts that were made on the part of Fauci and others to basically start developing some of these dangerous viruses and do some of the bioengineering that could have led to the creation of Covid.

 

[1:56:04]

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, just on the topic more broadly of China and the US. We can get to the Superchats after this topic, but I guess this relates to the whole cognitive infiltration thing. You do observe this dynamic with the old media is very anti-China and the CCP, and they’ll often have a narrative like the mainstream media or the US Government is actually like pro-China, like we’re the anti-China ones. And you just get some utterly bizarre narratives, like the balloon thing recently that Biden is passing secrets to the Chinese, and he’s also letting them fly a massive spy balloon over the US. And all this kind of thing.

 

But, yeah, it does work. I mean, you get these conservative Right-wing types that are very skeptical of the mainstream media, very skeptical of the government.

 

But then their take on the sort of neocon push for war with China, it’s like the government isn’t saber rattling enough with China. They’re too soft on the CCP.

 

I’m just curious where you see that going, because you see Tucker Carlson now, he’s been a figure that’s been, you know, very good in terms of pushing a lot of populist talking points and pushing back on. He’s one of the few people to push back on the US involvement in war in Ukraine, and he platforms a lot of anti-war voices, but he’s getting very aggressive in his rhetoric on China. And this whole narrative has shifted to, like, we need to withdraw from Ukraine so that we can fight China over Taiwan, this kind of thing. He has these people like Eldridge Colby on that are very hawkish on China.

 

I’m just curious how you see that playing out.

 

I mean, that’s a very big question to ask you, but in terms of, would the US be willing to go to war over Taiwan? And maybe more importantly, do you think the US is capable of reforming itself to be able to fight China, or is there just too much ideological hubris there? You’ve mentioned that to an extent already.

 

Ron Unz: Well, I mean, the whole thing about it is for the last 30 years, America has reigned as the sole superpower on the world after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And for 60 years or 70 years, we’ve done our best to try to make sure that we prevented China and Russia from moving together.

 

In other words, basically, that was Richard Nixon’s great success, and it was followed by the people who came afterwards.

 

In other words, the fact that we were able to become, in effect, a quasi ally of China was one of the reasons we won the Cold War against the Soviet Union.

 

The one thing no geopolitical strategist in all of modern American history has ever considered is that any group of American leaders would be stupid enough to push China and Russia together again. And that’s exactly what we’ve done over the last couple of years.

 

In other words, we basically are almost at the verge of war with Russia right now over Ukraine. I mean, basically we are. I mean, NATO is more or less at war with Russia on Russia’s own border, which is an extremely dangerous situation. At the same time, we’re saber rattling towards China.

 

So the inevitable result, basically, we’ve pulled back on our agreement. Since Richard Nixon opened the door to China, we’ve always agreed that Taiwan is part of China, the One China policy. That was the pillar of our diplomatic relationship with China, and we’re not pulling back from that.

 

So what we’ve done is do everything we can to alienate both China and Russia at the same time and drive them together, which is exactly what happened a few days ago, the meeting in Moscow between the leaders of the two countries. We’ve also pushed Iran into that same camp, and most recently, we’ve even pushed Saudi Arabia into that camp. Even Saudi Arabia.

 

Keith Woods: That was very interesting, a deal brokered by China with Iran.

 

[2:00:20]

 

Ron Unz: It’s an incredibly important development! I mean, basically it means we’ve lost our strength in the Middle East.

 

I mean, Iran and Saudi Arabia re-established diplomatic relations after decades of hostility through the good auspices of China and the Chinese diplomats in Beijing. I mean, Saudi Arabia has been our most important Arab ally since Franklin Roosevelt met with them, I think, in 1944 and 1945.

 

So, I mean, we’re talking about 70 years of an alliance that we’ve now thrown away. And Saudi Arabia and Russia are two of the leading oil exporters in the world.

 

I mean, the two of them together, largely together with Iran, largely control the oil market around the world.

 

Basically, we’ve destroyed ourselves diplomatically. I certainly would agree with all of these Republican critics of the disastrous job the Biden administration has done on these issues. But they say we should have attacked China more ferociously than we did, which is ridiculous.

 

I mean, the point is, China has the world’s largest industrial capability. Russia has the world’s largest storehouse of natural resources. If you combine them together, they’re stronger than the US. And NATO. And what we’ve done is push them together.

 

And the fact that we destroyed the Nord Stream pipelines, I mean, everybody knows we did it, and most people were sure we did it even before Seymour Hersh, one of America’s most renowned investigative journalists, came out with all the details of it. The point is, we committed an act of war against Germany, our most important continental ally in Europe. We devastated the European economies because of these energy issues.

 

I mean, there’s a perfectly reasonable chance. I mean, it was a very mild winter. Not for the fact there was a mild winter, it would have been a terrible economic situation with the prices of energy and we still might have problems, for example, this summer because of air conditioning requiring a lot of energy. And the next winter. We have inflicted tremendous damage, economic damage upon Germany and our other NATO allies. We destroyed their infrastructure, illegally.

 

And so I think that is the sort of factor that went into the Saudi calculation.

 

In other words, the Saudis thought to themselves if we would destroy the Nord Stream pipelines of Germany, perhaps we’re not the sort of ally they should be involved with and when you take Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia, China and a few of the other countries who have alienated around the world we’re in a very weak situation compared to what we would have been a few years ago. And what we’ve done is just so utterly irrational driving all these countries together that if we were deliberately trying to sabotage America’s strategic position we couldn’t have probably done a better job of it.

 

And it’s unclear what will end up happening with the Ukraine, but I mean, for example, I’ve been following very closely general Colonel Douglas Macgregor, again, very highly regarded military analyst. And he’s convinced that the Ukrainians are suffering very severe losses, and that the Russians will end up winning the war probably in the next few months and gaining control of most of Ukraine or at least as much of it as they want.

 

Now, again, I’m not a military expert. There are people on the other side who claim that the Russians are the ones suffering losses.

 

But, I mean, the fact that we’re basically right now depleting our storehouses of ammunition and weapons, much of which is being lost in the Ukraine war. I mean, basically there have been all these stories in the mainstream media of the fact that the Ukrainians right now are using up in a month the sort of munitions that America typically produces in a year.

 

And so if at some point we got into war with either China or Russia or some other major power around the world we’ll be in a much weaker state than we otherwise would have been and it was so unnecessary.

 

In other words, I’m very impressed with someone like for example, with John Mearsheimer who you’ve probably seen his lecture about how we basically spent all these years provoking the war, provoking the Ukraine war with the Russians, doing everything we could to try to avert any early peace after the war broke out.

 

And we’re now in a position where we basically are committing an awful lot of our military resources and $120,000,000,000 of our financial support to a regime that I think has a very good chance of losing in the next few months. And then where will it be? The Russians ended up calling up their reserves. They’re basically mobilizing and they might end up coming out of this with a much stronger military force than they’ve had in decades. And we brought it on ourselves, and now we’re looking for another fight with China at the same time, which is just insane.

 

[2:05:27]

 

Keith Woods: And you do think the US would be willing to go as far as war with China over Taiwan?

 

Ron Unz: Well, I hope not.

 

I mean, the whole thing about is China does not want war with Taiwan. China has basically said from the beginning that they’re willing to wait decades to reunify with Taiwan.

 

And in fact, for example, Taiwan right now, there are two political parties in Taiwan. One of them is more anti-China, and the other one, which actually was the original Kuomintang that came from China, that had been traditionally the government of China. They’re much more friendly towards China, and I think they probably have a fairly good chance of winning the next election.

 

So China certainly doesn’t want to start a war with Taiwan. But if we persuaded the Taiwanese to move towards independence, it’s certainly possible that China might end up demanding a blockade over Taiwan.

 

In other words, China could use their long range of missiles to declare a naval blockade of Taiwan, and then that either America would try to break the blockade, which would mean war with China, or America would have to give in on something like that.

 

So it makes absolutely no sense that we’re in one conflict with Russia right now, and at the same time, we’re looking for a new conflict with China.

 

Basically, under the right circumstances, we could have perfectly amicable relations with both Russia and China.

 

In other words, it’s a give and take situation. They have to recognize our interests in certain areas, and we have to recognize theirs in other areas. Ukraine was a red line towards Russia, and by crossing that red line, by forcing the Ukrainians over it, we started a war. Taiwan is a red line for China, and I certainly hope we don’t start another war with China over Taiwan.

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, I mean, sometimes people have these very structuralist interpretations of geopolitics where everything is for some very sensible, objective international relations reasons.

 

But I really think you can’t make sense of the strategy as it relates to Russia, except just being downstream of the ideology of the people in the State Department and genuine hatred of Russia and what it represents and genuine commitment to global dominance, basically. Because, like you said, the way it’s played out really isn’t going to benefit them in the long run. But look, we’ve gone over 2 hours. I’ll get to the Superchats now.

 

Ron Unz: Sure.

 

Keith Woods: So let’s see. Imperious sent a Superchat. He said if America wanted to devastate China economically, it would simply remove it’s most favoured trade status and hasten the already ongoing exfiltration of manufacturing into the next 14 Latin and Asian countries with better labour costs.

 

Ron Unz: I’m skeptical. Really? It would be that important. The thing to realize is that most favoured nation status was certainly very important for China. 15 or 20 years ago when they were building up. But from what I’ve read, a large fraction of the Chinese economy is now entirely domestic.

 

In other words, they’re not nearly as dependent on exports to the United States as people think they are. And I would argue probably in many ways, America is more dependent on exports from China, low cost exports from China than the other way around.

 

In other words, if you go into Walmart or if you go into a lot of the stores, a huge fraction of our goods come from China. And if we ended up cutting off those goods, I think a large fraction of the American population would suffer even more than they are economically. And that’s certainly.

 

I mean, the economic scenario that he’s talking about was exactly what Donald Trump was focused on.

 

In other words, he was talking about decoupling America from China. But China already has a larger economy than the United States.

 

In fact, an interesting article by a top French policy analyst that I just was looking at a couple of days ago. If you look at, for example, on a real basis, purchase power parity basis, the productive sectors of the economy rather than service economy, which is much more nebulous, China’s economy is already three times larger in real productive terms than the American economy, already three times larger, and it’s larger overall in real terms in purchasing power parity.

 

So the point about it is we’ve passed the point where any of these actions America could take could really severely damage the Chinese economy. While, on the other hand, releasing a virus there could have caused devastating losses and could have really damaged the economy in a very much more effective way.

 

I mean, the truth is, trade issues don’t have the sort of impact of something that could have basically caused the collapse of the Chinese economy or the sort of lockdowns that could have inflicted on the Chinese economy would ultimately happen in the American economy.

 

And also, I’m not necessarily saying it was a sensible action to take, but I’m saying inflicting severe economic damage through a highly contagious, low lethality virus is exactly the sort of thing an experienced biowarfare expert would certainly consider. And the fact that America spent all those decades building up it’s biowar infrastructure means that some point somebody without even asking permission of Donald Trump might decide to use it.

 

Keith Woods: All right. Covid was a fear virus said: Those other Western countries didn’t push fear as a way to control their populations. They more or less used the well earned public trust to calm everyone. Couldn’t access debts just be explained by countries that push fear versus those that pushed calm. I have no idea what point you’re making there.

 

Ron Unz: I’m skeptical. I mean, we’re talking about basically a million Americans died over a couple of years more than previously died if things had gone on the same way. And the pattern of excess deaths seems very closely linked to the obesity of the country.

 

So I think those sorts of objective factors are probably much more likely than questions of fear or lockdowns or anything like that.

 

Keith Woods: Anonymous said Ron Unz versus Ron DeSantis. Who wins in one on one pickup basketball game winners crown king of Florida. May the best Ron win. All right, thank you, Anonymous. Some real high quality Superchats tonight.

 

Another anonymous said, does Ron Unz eat onions? You don’t have to answer that, Ron. Anonymous, why did left liberals in the USA and the EU fall in line to support lockdowns and other such measures which hurt their domestic economy if the attack was directed at China and Iran?

 

Ron Unz: Well, I think as far as I know, the whole thing is American lockdowns actually began right my own part of the country.

 

In other words, the first lockdown in the United States occurred in the San Francisco bay area and was organized by the public health officer of Santa Clara county.

 

In fact, she lives here in Palo Alto. America was suddenly faced with this spreading virus, and we didn’t have any kits, so we couldn’t even tell who was infected, but we knew it was invisibly spreading around the country. Nobody really knew what to do.

 

[2:13:08]

 

In other words, Donald Trump and most of the people in his administration just said, oh, don’t pay any attention to it. It’s not a danger. It’ll go away by itself.

 

And yet suddenly there were more and more cases of people being infected in the Bay area and other parts of the country. I think what probably happened is these public health officers saw that China successfully stamped out the virus through the use of lockdowns in the city of Wuhan in the province of Hubei, and decided, well, if China had used lockdowns to stamp out the virus, the best thing we could try is something similar to that.

 

So, for example, the first lockdowns in the United States began here in the five counties of the San Francisco bay area. A day or two later, it spread to Los Angeles. A day or two after that, it spread to the rest of California and then New York City, New York state and other parts around the country until probably about half or two thirds of the country was locking down. The original lockdowns were intended to last only two or three or four weeks. The problem is they weren’t strict lockdowns.

 

In other words, China basically implemented extremely strict lockdowns in a few cities. To begin with, they stamped out the virus, and within a month or two, the country was back to normal again in the United States, because the virus was very contagious and the lockdowns weren’t at all strict or extremely strong. What ended up happening is the virus continued to spread. And so since the government didn’t really know what to do, they continued the lockdowns then going for weeks and months and for basically a year, or a year and a half.

 

And so the lockdowns ended up really being very ineffective. But they were ineffective not because I think in theory they would have failed, but they just were ineffective given the nature of American society. And it was simply impossible to have the very strict lockdowns that the Chinese had followed.

 

So, again, whether the lockdowns were a good idea or not at the time, I can’t really say, because they ended up failing. Maybe if they’d been done differently, they would have been more successful. But as it is, we ended up getting about 70 or 80% of the population infected despite the lockdowns, and we had a million excess deaths. So it’s not clear whether the efforts really ended up achieving much.

 

Keith Woods: All right. Yeah, this is kind of your last chance to send a Superchat, so if you want to go to Power chat, send them in. Did We Fall sent this on YouTube. I don’t know if you can see that. He said Unz Review and American Pravda are both essential reading. Does Ron foresee any great upheavals in the coming years? A Soviet collapse type event for the West where the system loses credibility and dissenting views prevail?

 

Ron Unz: Well, unfortunately, I think something like that has definitely been happening in the West. I mean, when you look at the tremendous loss of credibility in the American government and the American media, I mean, you know, 40 or 50 years ago, most Americans believed whatever the media and the government told them.

 

One reason, for example, with something like the JFK assassination, that there wasn’t much more of a backlash against what happened is the government, the elites, the media said it was a lone gunman, a random nut, and most people believed it. Most people accepted what the government told them. Even at the time of the 9/11 attacks, I think there was still a strong reservoir of belief in the government and the media.

 

But now we’ve reached the point. I mean, take, for example, the Covid epidemic. You have probably 20% to 30% of the American public that believes the vaccines are deadly and that the government or our elites want to kill them.

 

I mean, that’s much worse than, I think, almost any other country around the world. And it’s because the ruling elites in the United States, the government, the media, the corporations, most of the power centres have just been so dishonest for so long about so many important issues, that I think they’re undergoing the same tremendous loss of trust that was found in the last stages of the Soviet Union before the Soviet collapse.

 

I think when you look at some of the things going on in American society, or even, for example, the events right now going on in France, the protests in France, I think we’re seeing the West really undergoing much of the same disintegration that the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc underwent, 30 or 40 years ago.

 

In other words, I don’t know whether we’re at 1985 or 1987 or 1989 or 1991, but I mean, the degree of hostility towards the American government, or look, for example, the fact that we had a protest over the Donald Trump’s election. The fact that Donald Trump was elected president. Donald Trump, in my opinion, was an extremely flawed candidate, and I think most people would probably agree with that. He was opposed by 99% of the American media. He was massively outspent.

 

The other side spent billions of dollars more than he spent in his 2016 campaign, and he ended up winning the presidency despite all those tremendous handicaps. The reason he won is that the ruling elites of the United States, as exemplified in Hillary Clinton, were so tremendously hated, so tremendously disliked, so tremendously distrusted by the American public that people were willing to vote for a reality star like Donald Trump, over basically keeping things the way they are.

 

And in the case of, for example, when he was running for reelection, the fact that all the elites have to get together and ban him from social media, they have to ban any reports from Hunter Biden’s laptop, all those other factors. If not for those tilts on the scale, I think Trump probably would have been reelected despite the fact that there was such a massive effort on the part of all the unified elites to get rid of him.

 

So, I mean, the point is, when you have something like that happening in American political campaign, it just shows the tremendous hostility there is deep within the American public towards so much of the American leadership class, the American establishment, the Deep State, whatever you want to call it. And I think that’s getting worse rather than better.

 

[2:19:46]

 

Keith Woods: All right, Imperious sent another Superchat. Very generous, Superchat. Thank you, Imperious. Always appreciate your contributions. He said:

 

“Should jews police their own regarding anti-White racism just as much as White people police their own regarding non-White racism? If so, how? Are words enough? Or should there be firings and fines and moderate jail time for incitement against Whites?

 

Ron Unz: Well, I mean, certainly one aspect of our website is that even though we cover a lot of controversial things, the fact that we have much more of an open discussion on jewish issues than most of the other alternative websites, I think, is one sort of important aspect of what we do now. The point about it is, I think the biggest problem we face on all these issues is the media.

 

So, for example, most people, their view of reality is constructed by the media. And if the media constructs a false view of reality, a distorted view of reality, the result is that people believe that they’re acting in a reasonable way when they’re actually not.

 

I mean, the perfect example is what I was saying in the aftermath of the George Floyd death.

 

I mean, there seems to be a lot of evidence that George Floyd died of a drug overdose and a lot of those other incidents of alleged blacks killed by the police in a wanton fashion.

 

I mean, the real stories are very different than what most people believe. But if the media portrays those incidents as being the random killings of innocent blacks by the police, it’s not at all surprising that you get a much higher rate of black crime, of black violence, of black attacks.

 

And so the media is the fault involved. In the same way, I think if more jews in the United States or the Western world became familiar with the true history of the last hundred years, rather than the media portrayed history, which portrays things in a very distorted way, their attitudes towards things would be very different.

 

In fact, a piece I’m just about to republish has to do with the famous case of Leo Frank, the ADL, which was the founding incident of the ADL.

 

In other words, we’re talking about an organization like the ADL. I would bet probably that the vast majority of people in the ADL, in its leadership, probably believe all of the propaganda that the ADL and similar organizations put out about the massive tide of anti-semitism, all of these horrible things that have been done to jews in the United States, around the world, some of which are true, but many of which are not true.

 

And so the point is, once we have a more realistic view of the history of the last 50 years or the last 100 years, I think by itself, that would cause many jewish individuals to take a much more reasonable approach to things than they do right now. Because they get their knowledge of the world from the same movies and TV shows that I think most other people do.

 

And it’s in many cases an extremely distorted view of the world, a view of the world that basically engenders a tremendous amount of hostility, most of which really should not exist.

 

And so that’s a very severe problem.

 

Now, the truth about it is that some of the criticism made against jews or organized jewish groups is correct. Some of it is not, but a great deal of it is correct. And once the facts are brought out, I think that’s the best way to have any chance at harmonious relationships between all these different groups in our society, including blacks and non blacks and jews and non-jews and other groups like that. So it’s a very difficult position. But I think the media and the false portrayal of reality by the media, by the academic community, is a large measure of the problem involved.

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, it’s funny. Some people in the chat, like, thought you were going to dodge that question or something. They’ve obviously never visited the Unz Review guys. You should just check out the American Pravda series. It doesn’t exactly shy away from these issues.

 

Okay. Anan said:

 

“Hi. What is your opinion on Bitcoin and CBDCs?”

 

That’s the Central Bank Digital Currency.

 

Ron Unz: To be honest, I’m very skeptical of Bitcoin. It’s not something I’ve really paid much attention to or investigated, but I just don’t see why it’s worth the money it is.

 

In other words, basically, it’s mostly used by people who want to buy it because they hope it’ll go up in value.

 

In other words, it doesn’t really have an economic use. It’s not that people use it in transactions.

 

And in fact, given, for example, the energy cost involved, it’s reached the point where I think Bitcoin is very ineffective. It’s too expensive to use in ordinary transactions.

 

So that’s why some of the other crypto-currencies, I think, are more being used in that. But I should say I’m not an all expert in crypto-currency, and I was amazed when Bitcoin first became as valuable as it was, and I couldn’t imagine why it was going up. And I was not at all surprised when it went back down again. And now I know it’s gone up again a little bit the last few days. So I really don’t have a strong opinion on it.

 

But probably to the extent I do have an opinion, it’s probably much more to the conventional wisdom of someone like Jeffrey Sachs or someone like Paul Krugman, or someone like basically most of the leading investors, basically traditional investors just don’t think Bitcoin really makes sense as an investment, and I’ve never been involved in it myself.

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, I agree with you.

 

I mean, I’m not exactly an expert on crypto, but everything Bitcoin can do, another coin can do better. If it’s digital cash, there’s things like nano that do instant transactions with no fees and barely any energy. If it’s privacy, it has no privacy. If it’s smart contracts, it doesn’t really have that.

 

So, I mean, yeah, it’s purely the network effect, which how long can that last? I just don’t really buy that it’s going to be like an infinitely expanding network. The richest man in the world has already bought it and dumped it.

 

[2:26:22]

 

Ron Unz: Warren Buffett has been very critical of Bitcoin.

 

I mean, the truth about it is, if you remember about 15 years ago, there was a feeling that housing prices, the mortgage markets, were going up infinitely in the United States.

 

In other words, everybody was buying houses and speculating on houses because they felt housing prices could only go upwards. And the end result was the market collapse, and a lot of people lost everything they had.

 

And so it wouldn’t surprise me if the same thing happens with Bitcoin.

 

In fact, I think there was one claim that right now, the energy cost to produce a single Bitcoin is not that much lower than the lower end of what Bitcoin value was, at one point back maybe a few months ago or something like that, after one of those collapses took place.

 

So if at some point, obviously, the value of a single Bitcoin becomes lower than the energy mining costs of the Bitcoin that produced it, you could see a complete collapse in the Bitcoin market.

 

So, again, it’s not something I’d really rather stick to things where I at least have done some investigation.

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, I do think crypto is around. It’ll get a lot bigger and there will be huge growth there. But I just don’t think it’s Bitcoin. I think Ethereum will flip Bitcoin and other coins will take over and eventually it’ll collapse.

 

Okay, I think this is the last Superchat, Mike said:

 

“Is the suppression of all the Chinese protests in 2019 sufficient motivation for China to have released the virus? At the time, it just seemed to me like it was the golden excuse for them to shut everything down?”

 

I do remember some people having that narrative that was like CCP pretence to end all the riots and anti-government protests and implement full authoritarianism.

 

Ron Unz: I’m very skeptical of that. I mean, the whole thing about it is the only protests I’m aware of really were in Hong Kong, which is not even really part of China proper, and Hong Kong is a very small postage stamp.

 

So, in other words, if the Chinese wanted to deploy heavy forces, they certainly could have stamped out the protests very easily to whatever extent they wanted. There were no protests anywhere else in China, and the clamp down, basically the lockdowns then were relaxed a month or two later, as soon as they said that, they’d stamped out the virus.

 

It was only last year or so, when the extremely contagious Omicron version got it leaked into China, that they had to have a series of lockdowns, which they finally gave up on and ended up letting the virus spread. And ended up I mean, probably like a million extra Chinese died probably in the last six months because of the spread of Omicron. But it would have been much more serious if the original Wuhan virus had been spread instead.

 

So, I mean, overall, I’m very skeptical of those sorts of scenarios, and I think probably what happened in China was exactly what the government said was happening.

 

In other words, they found this mysterious virus, whose lethality they weren’t sure of at the time, that was spreading very rapidly and threatened to infect the entire country and potentially kill many, many millions of Chinese. But the Chinese stamped it out very quickly in the city of Wuhan, in the provinces, and then life in China went back to normal.

 

So the funny thing about it is, six months after that, life in China was almost entirely back to normal everywhere in the country, while it was the West and America and other parts of the world that were suffering from these very severe lockdowns.

 

So I really am very skeptical of those sorts of complicated explanations. I don’t think the governments in either China or the West did anything other than what they claimed to do. It’s just that the Western governments did a poor job of stamping out the virus early on when they might have been able to.

 

Keith Woods: All right, well, that’s all of the Superchats. Yeah, we’ve gone, two and a half hours, so I do appreciate all your time, Ron. And yeah, again, I recommend everyone check out the American Pravda series. It’s great. I’ve been listening to them today. I need to catch up on more of them. Apparently, it had a big role in red pilling Nicholas Fuentes, I’ve heard him mention that.

 

Ron Unz: That’s great. And what I should say is that the side of the website, if you go to our basic website, there are sections, for example, there’s the Covid section, there’s the Public Health Vaccination section, and that has some of my articles grouped in those sections.

 

So if you’re interested in the Covid issues, going to that section basically contains those articles summaries and also the video clip of the ABC News report regarding basically what might be called the smoking gun of the Secret DIA Report, describing an epidemic in China before it actually happened.

 

Keith Woods: Yeah, and just in general, Unz is a great website to visit, Anyone that’s worth reading, Andrew Joyce, Michael Jones, all the sort of big names this side of things, you’ll catch what they write republished there.

 

So, yeah, this was great. Thanks for joining me, Ron. Thanks for everyone that Superchatted and tuned in and take care of one.

 

Ron Unz: Hey, thanks for having me.

 

[2:31:52]

 

END

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YouTube Comments

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173 Comments

@johnnywesley7695
1 day ago (edited)
Unz is wrong about the 1965 Immigration Act. What the Act did is allow immigration through family-based sponsorship which in turn has turned into what we call “chain migration”. The 1924 Immigration Act severely restricted immigration. Then, the 1952 Immigration Act allowed for certain kinds of immigrants with a preference strictly from Europe. The 1965 Act got rid of non-European restrictions and allowed immigrants to come from everywhere, but it did put country quotas and a cap on green cards. As things improved in Europe, less Europeans moved to the US and more third world immigrants who had families already settled in America had them sponsor them for green cards. Once they received green cards, they would eventually become citizens and end up sponsoring other family members left behind — chain migration. Today, the top 10 countries where immigrants are coming from, zero European countries are even on the top 10 list. Mexico ranks number one, followed by China. The rest are Latin American countries, Central American countries, and rest Asian countries. So Unz claiming it reduced Latino immigration is entirely false. Just look up the data via Pew Research.
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105

14 replies

@50centpb7
1 day ago
His take on this doesn’t seem to pass the smell test, just the intentions behind the 1965 immigration act were obviously not to reduce net migration. The complete opposite was true.
26

@wangChung-on4kx
22 hours ago
This entire thing is a larp use critical thinking
2

@nickmoser7785
21 hours ago (edited)
Also prior to the 1924 immigration act we had the Nationality Act of 1790 mostly limited access to U.S. citizenship to White Protestant immigrants from Western Europe—who had resided in the U.S. at least two years and their children under 21 years of age.
7

@wangChung-on4kx
21 hours ago
@nickmoser7785 God Bless I love you, without Christ, we are just Jews
1

@MichaelJohnson-ij5ei
21 hours ago
Am I wrong in thinking his woefully absurd take on this is purely determined by his chewish background? If everything was the same, except America was historically a chewish majority state, would he have the same take?
7

@wangChung-on4kx
21 hours ago
@MichaelJohnson-ij5ei Kanye I love you j-wish (Christian ) God bless

@nickmoser7785
20 hours ago
@wangChung-on4kx wrong Judaism split from Christianity not other way around. Christianity is the religion of the old and New Testament
4

@sergeytheweberian7064
15 hours ago (edited)
​ @MichaelJohnson-ij5ei Unz is tricky with this, sorta like Rothbard. In that he did call out The Lobby and tribe’s strong connection to Communism and censoring people to the right of neocons while also being a defacto civic nationalist. And i don’t think he is insincere about it. It’s just that people of his background have rather natural tendency to downplay ideas coming from ethnonationalist camp even when they come eventually to deconstruct the rest of leftist historical and political mythology.
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@kw8831
15 hours ago

@Sergey theWeberian I completely agree with your take. I just discovered Roy Unz several weeks ago so this has been on my mind recently. If you just read an article or two of his, you’d get the impression that he is the rarest type of Jew, a full blown based ethno-nat! but after reading many more of his works I kept getting off put by little things, & occasionally something major. It made much more sense after I discovered his heritage…
Not that his Jewishness necessarily makes him wrong or our foe. Roy Unz is not on our side & that’s okay, we should not expect that of anyone but ourselves. With that said some of his articles are brilliant and while he isn’t on our side he certainly isn’t on our enemies either. That’s fair enough to me!
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@magaelectrician657
11 hours ago
I don’t think he knew the audience he was talking to
2

@glaucon7337
7 hours ago
It’s not complicated. He is saying that without it the Hispanic immigration rates would have been higher, not that it would be non existent. He explained it very clearly.
1

@musphat3311
22 hours ago
His theories on the pandemic are genuinely intriguing and thought provoking
27
Keith Woods

1 reply
@p.pingtam7253

@p.pingtam7253
18 hours ago
What you thought it was the evil chinese, bruh?
, clever boy.
3

@pantsmonsterv6
1 day ago
Unz has done incredible work. Thank you!
51
Keith Woods

@LT-xb5su
1 day ago
Super excited to watch this. Two of my favorites
22
Keith Woods

@zonefreakman
1 day ago
I haven’t really read the Unz publication but I’ll give an open ear if Keith is willing to interview the owner of it. Starting off his immigration argument with saying that one of the biggest negatives of it is the economic problems that come with it is pretty milquetoast though. But I do like his perspective of having brought together people from the left and right on his website rather than being an echo chamber. I’m not sure if it will be effective long term but it’s something different.
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1 reply
@cascadiapatriot7831

@cascadiapatriot7831
17 hours ago
It’s obviously in our faces everyday, on the streets, at work, in schools, at stores, in advertising, media, entertainment, and many other areas that the most serious problem with immigration is something other than economics.
5

@k.k8291
1 day ago
Very interesting interview. I’ve always been curious about Ron Unz given his fantastic website (its comment section is of the highest quality I’ve ever came across).
22
Keith Woods

1 reply
@bigolboomerbelly4348

@bigolboomerbelly4348
1 day ago
Totally rocking interview bros!! Im gonna start the new Ron fan club!
9

@joeshmoe4656
23 hours ago
Everyone should check out Douglas MacGregor. Excellent analysis of the situation in Ukraine. He does a lot of interviews with smaller channels Keith, you should try and get him on!
20

1 reply
@brotherjamesstrang

@brotherjamesstrang
21 hours ago
Didn’t know Unz was so soft spoke, very soothing.
8

@UndergroundFriendly
13 hours ago (edited)
29:52 while discussing the subject of increasing amounts of black violence, Keith emphasizes the word “relaxed” followed by a distinct pause.
5

1 reply
@Andrew-cc4vk

@Andrew-cc4vk
9 hours ago
I caught that too

@rorschach6809
22 hours ago
The Pravda series is amazing. Great man
4

@justinhoward218
1 day ago
Yes, fantastic work from Unz. Might need to be backed up on Bufferchute and Odysee l think lol
8

@simonaguilar3646
1 day ago
Love the website. Unz’s own articles not so much.
7

@goodmorningweimerica9741
13 hours ago
Excellent interview with Ron “in other words” Unz!
3

2 replies
@GaryHost-zb5jv

@GaryHost-zb5jv
9 hours ago
I’m glad someone else picked up on this. In other words, I watched some of his talks after seeing Keith would be bringing him on, and noticed he uses the phrase a lot.
3

@goodmorningweimerica9741
8 hours ago
@GaryHost-zb5jv yeah just seems like a tic or something. I notice a lot of intelligent people do something similar when speaking for long periods of time.

@thethinredline4714
1 day ago
I have been for someone from our sphere to interview Ron Unz and who better than Keith Woods
14
Keith Woods

@retter2critical
9 hours ago
This was Unz-Believable!
1

@jewelcitizen2567
1 day ago
Wow… massive scoop kudos to you!
7
Keith Woods

@harryrichards4899
6 hours ago
Unz cheesin at keith is so funny
1

@hansnielsen6280
1 day ago
Great stream, very interesting
1

@indigo6981
9 hours ago
Great interview
1

@MichaelJohnson-ij5ei
22 hours ago (edited)
He’s wrong about migrants not being on more welfare & not committing more crime.
Stats across the board, regardless of nation/continent of origin, show that migrants are more likely to be on welfare. Bearing in mind that there was a time (for most of American history), when America was developing into a superpower, that migrants & settlers received no welfare at all. Welfare + mass migration is just asking for an economic disaster for the common man.
Then in terms of crime, a lot of the migrants flooding into America are coming over the Southern border, & they absolutely do commit more crime. They may not have crime rates as bad as African Americans, but it’s still substantially higher than the White population. I think it’s typically double/triple the rate, & they’re far more likely to be involved in gang activity. Then you also need to factor in that plenty of jurisdictions are now counting Hispanics as Whites, so the true discrepancy is even worse in reality.
Regardless, it’s not even about economics or crime for me, they could all be model citizens waiting on us hand & foot & I still wouldn’t want them here. It’s about the social cost, it’s about self-determination. America as a European melting pot, despite some national frictions, worked because it was formed by people with racially & culturally/religiously similar backgrounds. It’s a lot easier for these people to be absorbed into the host race/culture after a generation or two. Whereas an Indian or Muslim will always consider his interests foreign to those of a White Christian background.
In some ways it is even worse when they’re more capable migrants, because then they have the ability to obtain power & naturally, as I just pointed out, their alien interests agitate against those of the host race. You see this all the time by any alien migrant with any sort of political or legislative power. They’re not thankful towards the host people, they’re only concerned about transforming the nation to reflect/protect their interests & identity, just like chews do. In fact, the way Unz talks about immigration, not even factoring in the social/dispossession cost, reflects his own chewish out-group background. In other words, if Unz was living in Israel as part of the host race, then I’m almost certain he would be factoring in this cost, & it would likely be his primary concern.
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3 replies

@Leathal
18 hours ago
It’s clear that even the “good ones” see the native born population as essentially indistinguishable worker units that are no longer replacing themselves through reproduction and thus replacement through immigration is the only path that can be envisioned. It’s not their culture dying out. It’s not their standard of living decreasing. With one specific exception, nations have no purpose but to fill a prescribed role in the grander global machine
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@UndergroundFriendly
11 hours ago (edited)
the other thing he missed with regard to immigration and crime is that you tend to see much higher rates among the American born children of immigrants than their parents. they’re most often the ones who become gang members, etc.
1

@crimson1453
5 hours ago
Thank you! This dude genuinely seems very misinformed.

@calengr1
1 day ago
2:17:10 trust level analogous to late USSR
3

@louduva9849
1 day ago
Fascinating guy. I like Ron.
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Keith Woods

3 replies

@chrisandrews4927
18 hours ago
Glad you’re still around, Lou. Been making me laugh in the comment section for the better part of a decade.
6

@marylamb1407
15 hours ago
Unz is like Makow. “Just as Noam Chomsky strategizes to neutralize leftist anti-semitism by making it seem that Israel is a client state of the U.S. and “neo”-conservatives fund and theorize and promote only those ‘conservatisms’ which lead to bigger government, and military action abroad in favor of Israel.
Makow works the crowd that has its eyes on the NWO. He concedes to small J**ish crimes to direct what would otherwise be a beneficial anti-J**aism which could free us, to a fictional and illusory entity, the Illuminati.” Wintermute. You notice how Ron blames a lot on the CIA but never mentions the Mossad. One would think they are seperate organizations.
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@MrTrenttness
8 hours ago

Thank you

@kirktuss4819
14 hours ago
Unz Review legitimizes the internet.
1

@calengr1
1 day ago (edited)
2:22: 01 ADL :self perception and sense of history; 2:14:15 skeptical re crypto

@thevanillamaster8103
1 day ago
Unz was one of the first people who redpilled me early on
1

@cwilliams6884
11 hours ago
proud monolinguist here, thanks ron

@yankeecornbread8464
9 hours ago
Presents a believable political explanation for why “1965” doesn’t do what we think it does, until one looks at before and after photos taken in metro areas. And not just there. Rural areas in the interior are now visibly different.

@thethinredline4714
1 day ago
I don’t agree with Ron on the 1965 immigration act
48

14 replies
@odyssey9707

@odyssey9707
23 hours ago
Its okay to disagree with someone, believe it or not.
8

@donjuanmckenzie4897
22 hours ago
He has a point though
4

@moma8518
20 hours ago
Can you explain why? He gave good reasoning and has evidence to back it up, can you refute the reasoning he gave?
2

@thethinredline4714
19 hours ago
@odyssey9707 sure

@thethinredline4714
19 hours ago
@moma8518 look at America before and after 1965
17

@bruno.6610
15 hours ago
@thethinredline4714

@Kevin-kb9nz
12 hours ago
To some extent its inevitable that a rich country will be flooded by a poor one when there is no or very little natrual barrier.
2

@mooseolini1447
12 hours ago
​ @moma8518 I may misunderstand the finer details of the 1965 act and Ron’s arguement, so what follows is my very basic and probably flawed understanding.
As far I understand it, America’s immigration policy prior to the 1965 act, stressed that only “free white men of good character”, could migrate to the US and become citizens.
After the act was passed, anyone could potentially gain citizenship.
Ron is arguing that immigration was higher prior to 1965 and lower afterwards, without regard to the race of those immigrating.
Prior to 1965 only Whites would immigrate, afterwards, any race could immigrate.
I don’t know whether or not what Ron says is true, that immigration rates were higher before the act but regardless, I know which type of immigrant I prefer.
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@donjuanmckenzie4897
11 hours ago
​@Moose Olini His argument is that 1965 Act RESTRICTED Latin American immigration, and without it Latin American immigration would have been even higher than it has been
1

@mooseolini1447
11 hours ago
@donjuanmckenzie4897 “Latin American” is a deceptive term. Latin Americans can be White, black, Mestizo, Castizo, Indio, etc.
If “Latin American” immigration was higher prior to 1965 than after 1965 (doubtful, honestly), then it would’ve been White ones who were taken in, as immigration policy at the time restricted citizenship to other races.
My point is that regardless of immigration rates, American immigration policy was superior prior to 1965 because it only granted access to Whites.
Ron seems to dismiss the relevance of racial considerations in his argument.
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@enjoful
9 hours ago

@DudeReturns-ty1bg
3 hours ago
Dude the critical drinker complains about ethnic diversity then reinforces it.
1

@johnnywesley7695
2 hours ago
@donjuanmckenzie4897 It didn’t restrict Latin American immigration. 1965 Act opened immigration to any country through family-based sponsorship. As a result Mexico now is the number 1 country where family-based immigrants are coming from. China is second and India is third.
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@jmedlin81
22 hours ago
very ‘normie-tier’ COVID takes.. wild to hear people still speaking highly of the vaccine, and still speaking of COVID as if it’s a legitimate dangerous threat. I didn’t expect this chat to be so COVID dominated. As someone with several family members having had strokes and other lasting health issues just after the jab, I had to tune out.
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6 replies
@p.pingtam7253

@p.pingtam7253
18 hours ago
I betcha Keith is jabberwocky’d.
5

@cantankerouspatriarch4981
15 hours ago
Ron’s take on covid is strangely bluepilled. His views
on pretty much everything else are decently accurate.
5

@ryanthompson3446
15 hours ago
Yep super disappointing, big yikes for me.
5

@conoraq
9 hours ago
This isn’t Infowars, dunno how you ended up here but you’re out of your depth

@milan6555
9 hours ago (edited)
I am neither here nor there on the covid topic, but I know people who died from covid, who didn’t take vaccines. And no, they were not seniors. Does that mean the vaccine was not harmful to anyone? No, definitely not. But this topic is more complex. People on both sides are just obsessed with their one sided version of it and it’s tiresome.
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3

@magaelectrician657
1 day ago
Raising the minimum wage would reduce immigration??? He needs to flesh out this idea a bit more….this is bonkers
10

4 replies

@evanschulz7375
22 hours ago
Strict immigration policy and border enforcement/deportation would work better.
6

@peenweinerstein9968
16 hours ago
At least it’s a palatable proposal to a modern government… not sold on its effectiveness tho

@magaelectrician657
11 hours ago
@evanschulz7375 seriously I mean wtf.

@UndergroundFriendly
11 hours ago
yeah, and he didn’t even explain that claim in any level of detail that supported his argument.

@Kevin-kb9nz
13 hours ago
Please do a follow up with his views
on the holocaust.
2

@evolassunglasses4673
1 day ago
Very interesting. The only other person I have heard on the anti lab leak theory is Patrick Henningsen from 21st Century Wire (also presents UK Column on Fridays).
2

3 replies
@smashedpumpking

@smashedpumpking
1 day ago
Patrick’s great, excellent speaker. Really enjoyed his recent chat with James Delingpole
3

@evolassunglasses4673
1 day ago
@smashedpumpking yes, I saw that. I’d recommend that, it’s on James Delingpole’s Odysee channel.
2

@shayneswenson
23 hours ago
I love when he btfo’s Ukraine regime narrative enjoyers on Twitter spaces
1

@chrishsmith451
1 day ago
Interview steve sailer next
8

@thebrickton1947
1 day ago
Australia’s deindustrialisation, reduction in smoking, western diets and general affluence has contributed to the obesity epidemic, in my opinion, which is what I have seen, everyone was athletic in the 70-80s. Today, popular media promotes the obese clumsy father as an archetype, and the mass abide to the norm.
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4 replies

@zonefreakman
1 day ago
Reduction in smoking and deindustrialization? I don’t understand how those things are supposed to contribute to obesity rates. True you have less appetite if you smoke, but there are plenty of obese smokers. It’s a non sequitur. The diets which you’ve mentioned too, is one of the biggest factors in the obesity epidemic, and a lifestyle of laziness. And I’m not sure how lack of industrialization contributes to obesity. Before industrialization most people were not obese, then some time after industrialization obesity rates skyrocketed with mass produced unhealthy food, and comfortable lifestyles.
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2

@nolanhardy3320
23 hours ago
@zonefreakman what he is referring to is post-industrialization, which outsources the industrialization of a nation without removing the abundance that comes with it. This way it is different than pre-industrial state of a nation, because prior to industrialization men had to still toil in the fields. In post industrial societies, you have mostly desk jockeys and great reduction in laborious jobs.
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1

@thebrickton1947
23 hours ago
@zonefreakman smoking surpresses appetite, before automation when aus was expanding and industrial, a large portion of the workforce did manual labour, it ‘road the sheeps back’, and realied upon agriculure and mining, and we had a domestic industry supplying goods to themselves. I have worked many of these roles, many of which are gone due to outsourcing to chinese slave labour
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@thebrickton1947
23 hours ago
@zonefreakman otherwise, I agree with all your points

@gabbyk1391
1 day ago
“The largest problem I see with immigration has been economic.”
This guy doesn’t get it. Not worth conversing with him after he says something as shallow as that.
19

4 replies
@cascadiapatriot7831

@cascadiapatriot7831
17 hours ago
It’s in his genes.
5

@bruno.6610
15 hours ago
He’s jewish, c’mon be fair
1

@milan6555
9 hours ago (edited)
Any kind of argument against it, is appreciated.

@gabbyk1391
7 hours ago
@milan6555 I’m at the point now where I don’t even argue or discuss with people on YT anymore. It always leads to nothing. If someone like you ever asks to be told why something blatantly obvious is the way it is they’re trying to prove something. You can find arguments against it all day if you wanted. You’re on Keith Woods channel friend. He has entire videos about this very topic. So where did you come from and what are your motives?
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@jmedlin81
22 hours ago
1:34:55 I worry when people take Pfizer, CDC, WHO etc at their word, regarding COVID causing the heart issues. It seems these heart issues are vaccine caused, and they’re being blamed on COVID.
12

1 reply
@make756perday

@make756perday
19 hours ago
“If you’re going through hell keep going.” -Winston Churchill
1

2 replies
@whatda7705

@whatda7705
1 day ago

1

@MikeSmith-go8wk
18 hours ago
Unz fails to recognise that a mix of socialism and nationalism fixes everything. Therefore Unz fails.
3

1 reply
@Dixey71

@Dixey71
13 hours ago
Well he is Jewish
1

@marylamb1407
14 hours ago
Honestly Keith this stream was a flop. Unz is as cutting edge as Chomsky. BTW both serve the same purpose, inking the waters of truth.
5

@calengr1
1 day ago
2:09:50 China 3x USA in real goods

@dr.johnbarron746
23 hours ago
interesting man
2

@matthewcarpenter3137
1 day ago
Wow big guest indeed.
1

@marccroft3328
19 hours ago
Not saying he’s all wrong, but be careful, Keith – since you have apparently attracted these types
5

Keith Woods
·
4 replies

@moma8518
19 hours ago
Types of what? Can you elaborate

@marccroft3328
18 hours ago
The 60% revealers & 100% diverters
3

@KeithWoods
18 hours ago
Huh
8

@bruno.6610
14 hours ago
@marccroft3328 What does Unz divert from?

@seapigbs4167
1 day ago
Why does Ron get so little heat?
7

9 replies
@satireofcircumstance6458

@satireofcircumstance6458
1 day ago
Don’t know. But it’s not like he and the contributers on his site pull their punches at all about the taboo subjects.
6

@persiandrum9871
1 day ago (edited)
It’s a fair question. Some surmise that if the ADL and other hall-monitors bring any attention to Uno (especially his excellent article on Holocaustianity) it would only add to their ever-mounting problems. Others think that perhaps Ron is placed there as a relief valve. Who knows? Either way his American Pravda series, while not always on the money, is very worthwhile reading.
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@Leathal
1 day ago
He’s like Norm Finklestein on the left – neither are getting their doors knocked down for mainstream speaking engagements, but they’re both oddly allowed to freely speak on forbidden topics without repercussions. (Norm is strictly anti-Israel, he doesn’t discuss the ‘bunga and is mostly pro degeneracy but it’s certainly weird how he can casually drop hard r’s in interviews and such)
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@evanschulz7375
22 hours ago
Do a nose check.
5

@cromartie1984
17 hours ago
and yet zemmour had lot of trials.

@marccroft3328
15 hours ago
Controlled opposition

@smittywarbenyagermangensen4860
21 hours ago
In other words, on the other hand
1

@beatsbyjiro8291
16 hours ago
so funny ron is talking about american crime and woods is talking about crime being linked to immigration which is a european view, our biggest crime element has been here since the 1700s
2

@ArilandoArilando
16 hours ago (edited)
55:00

@gorillabiskut
1 day ago
Where Steve sailer at doe?

@ThomasBoyd-pe3wc
1 day ago
Based.
2

@nathanhoskins
11 hours ago
My covid related comment got scrubbed FFS.
2

@ryanthompson3446
15 hours ago
Rons c0vid take is cringe.
9

@schoenengutentag
16 hours ago
Very interesting interview. But wow, the chat is just full of nonsense and “just so-” or “heard it from dude on bitchute”-opinions.
4

1 reply

@milan6555
9 hours ago (edited)
I hate to say it, but bever underestimate the grug element within the dissident sphere.
2

@sniper6668
4 hours ago
The Giga-Jew

@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je
1 day ago
early life
8

@dancooper4733
20 hours ago
Unz is jewish. That doesnt matter anymore, eh?
4

6 replies
@australiafair5926

@australiafair5926
20 hours ago
If you refuse to engage with any Jewish research/literature you won’t be able to participate in any public conversation. Just don’t take on a Jew as a moral/political guru/leader.
9

@chrisandrews4927
18 hours ago
Honestly no, it doesn’t. Some people will give a nuanced answer involving making perfect the enemy of the good, optics, learning from your enemies, engagement with anyone outside of the “dissident right ghetto” is worthwhile, etc. I’ll give you the real answer- we already lost, our “fight” is over, so we might as well have interesting conversations with interesting people.
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@evolassunglasses4673
16 hours ago
He platforms Kevin Mcdonald.
2

@odinsire3879
1 day ago
Based Jew
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5 replies
@WakaWaka2468

@WakaWaka2468
1 day ago
Nah, the only truly based J was Bobby Fischer.
16

@johnnywesley7695
1 day ago
No. He’s wrong about the 1965 Immigration Act
9

@bruno.6610
14 hours ago
@WakaWaka2468 Otto Weininger

@odinsire3879
12 hours ago
Yeah, he is wrong about that. But overall he seems like a solid guy.
1

@alaskantundrawolf8831
1 day ago
One of the good ones, like Eric Zemmour and Doja Cat.
1

@ericmay4421
1 day ago
Unz is the best
1

2 replies
@Dixey71

@Dixey71
13 hours ago
Nah

@ericmay4421
12 hours ago
@Dixey71 Admittedly his voice can work your last good nerve.

@555Trout
22 hours ago
Weird dude. Fed sus.
1

1 reply
@Dixey71

@Dixey71
13 hours ago
He is Jewish
1

 

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See Also

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Mark Collett — It’s Okay To Be White — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Christmas Adverts – Multicultural Propaganda — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — What We Must Do To Win — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Assad Didn’t Do It – Faked Syrian Gas Attack — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — The Plot to Flood Europe with 200 Million Africans — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — The jewish Question Explained in Four Minutes — TRANSCRIPT

 

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Version 2: Mon, Mar 27, 2023 – Updated YouTube Comments (173).

Version 1: Sun, Mar 26, 2023 — Published post. Includes YouTube comments (xx).

 

 

Mark Collett — It’s Okay To Be White — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Christmas Adverts – Multicultural Propaganda — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — What We Must Do To Win — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Assad Didn’t Do It – Faked Syrian Gas Attack — TRANSCRIPT

 

 

Mark Collett — It’s Okay To Be White — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Christmas Adverts – Multicultural Propaganda — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — What We Must Do To Win — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Assad Didn’t Do It – Faked Syrian Gas Attack — TRANSCRIPT

Maria Zeee: We are live with Dr Ryan Cole. He runs the largest pathology lab in Idaho. 26 years experience in the Mayo Clinic. And is working with the Global Covid Summit and International Alliance Of Physicians And Medical Scientists. Thank you so much Dr Cole for joining us today.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: It’s an honour to be with you and with your listeners. So hopefully we can enlighten some people on some important matters.

 

Maria Zeee: Yes I think we have a lot to unpack here. So you started speaking last year about the increase in cancers. That you were seeing in your clinic. Let’s start there. Let’s talk about that increase. Has that further increased now?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yes. I mean, I’m still seeing it at the same degree increased in the different age groups above yearly averages. So like you mentioned I’ve been doing pathology for 26 years. I’ve seen about 500,000 patients in my career. So I know the annual patterns in certain types of diseases. So when the shots rolled out, it was interesting that correlating with each decile of age group coming downward I would start to see a bump up in certain types of cancers, which was very concerning.

 

And the first signal I saw was endometrial cancers, cancers of the uterus. And normally I would see maybe two of those a month, two, or three a month. And I was starting to see two, or three per week! Which was very, very concerning. And then I started seeing melanomas of the skin at younger ages. And those ended up being thicker.

 

And it was interesting, because I knew the clinics I was serving – we weren’t as tightly locked down here as many states and countries. So I know those clinics stayed open. So it wasn’t the excuse that:

 

“Gosh! Nobody could get into the doctor and these were all a delayed diagnosis.”

 

So yes, I’m still seeing that uptick. I’m still seeing shockingly odd cancers at shockingly odd ages! And so that pattern persists. And we’re starting to understand more, and more, the mechanisms as to why those are happening.

 

Maria Zeee: So could you talk us through those mechanisms and why we are seeing this uptick in cancer?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Certainly. So one of the biggest problems is the spike protein persists in the body after the shots. And so the synthetic RNA, we know from a Stanford study a couple months ago came out that showed the synthetic RNA doesn’t break down like scientists had hoped and predicted.

 

So with that synthetic RNA still in our lymph nodes spike is persistently produced. That spike protein can bind to two very important genes. One is called p53. And I call that one the “Guardian of the genome”. So goes your p53, it’s a tumor suppressor gene. So basically it’s a family of genes that keeps atypical cells from proliferating. But when that p53 gene is bound, those regulatory pathways are no longer regulated. Now cancer can take off.

 

And then another very important one that a lot of women I know are aware of is the BRCA gene. And that’s very responsible for breast cancers and ovarian cancers. We also know that that spike protein can bind to that BRCA receptor.

 

Now in addition to that the spike protein can get into our T-cells. And all day long we have little rips and tears in our DNA. And we have little zippers that zip it back together. Well when the spike gets into the nucleus of our very important White blood cells, the T-cells, then that DNA repair can’t happen anymore. The spike blocks that from happening.

 

And then there’s also another DNA repair mechanism that’s blocked. It’s a gene, MSH3, MSH2, MSH6. And again we know that if you have those in the wrong ratio that can also lead to cancer pathways. So I mean, this is just the tip of the iceberg of the different things that can induce that into happening.

 

And the problem is that synthetic spike is making spike that persists in the body. We know in the Stanford study at least 60 days. A colleague in Germany, Dr Burkhart found spike deposited in a post-vaccinated patient 128 days at time of autopsy. So this spike protein, the Salk Institute showed that it’s a toxin. That it can induce the same bad effects that the virus, the viral infection can produce itself.

 

Now the difference is, if you get the viral infection your body can clear the infection within about a week, or so, if you’re reasonably immune competent. Now you have the virus gone, you have the spike gone for the most part, and you’re not prone to these chronic pathways from a synthetic spike circulating constantly.

 

[05:26]

 

So that’s kind of the concern. A natural infection from this engineered virus, you know, no matter what it was a virus that was tinkered with, in a laboratory setting. But if you have the whole virus and you mount a whole immune response then you’re generally okay. If you get excess amount of spike from these shots then that becomes a very big concern.

 

Maria Zeee: Dr Cole, a lot of people who are immuno-compromised – because you mentioned there if your immune system’s fairly strong you can overcome the virus – a lot of people who are immuno-compromised have been told to go and get these injections. And what we’re seeing is that it’s much worse for them when they do. But they were worried that they wouldn’t be able to survive the virus. Can you talk to those people in particular?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah. I know and see this is frustrating. Because that’s so anti-science to say:

 

“Gosh! Your immune compromised. So we’re going to give you a shot, to an immune system that’s immune compromised, and isn’t going to be able to mount an immune response, even to a vaccine.”

 

So a lot of immune compromised people are actually very vitamin D deficient, which is interesting. And any individual that’s vitamin D deficient can’t mount a good immune response from any vaccine, for that matter!

 

That’s why we saw so many people in care homes, the elderly, pass on and be so susceptible. The majority of those individuals are vitamin D deficient most nursing homes around the world don’t supplement them, which is kind of foolishness.

 

But anyway those immune compromised individuals, … And I have an oncology colleague down in Texas and he showed that none of his patients that were immune compromised chemo patients mounted any immune response to the shots at all.

 

So again this is another international problem with the suppression of early treatment. Of all the patients I treated with early treatment, you know, be it Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin phenol vibrate, budestinide, steroids, anti-clotting agents, not a single patient I treated went to the hospital, not a single patient I treated passed on. About half of my patient cohort was elderly, multiply comorbid, individuals.

 

So even in those immune compromised individuals if you can treat them with something that inhibits the binding of the spike to the cell which many of those agents I just listed do, then their viral load goes down.

 

And a very simple one especially with Omicron is just mixing some iodine drops in some salt water, and the moment you have a symptom you start doing some nasal rinses and, or, gargling. And that will kill the virus straight away! Very, very, very quickly. So these immune compromised individuals, it’s foolishness in medicine to say we don’t have early treatment for a disease. It’s akin to me saying:

 

“Gosh, you have a broken leg with a bone sticking out! In two weeks when it’s gangrenous why don’t you come in? And then we’ll consider treating you.”

 

Gosh we’d never do that! Or a woman comes in with a urinary tract infection. I would never say:

 

“Gosh, why don’t you just go home. When it reaches up into your kidneys, and you need to be in the ICU, then we’ll treat you.”

 

Nonsense! Early treatment has always been the standard of care in Medicine. So be it an immune compromised patient, be it a healthy patient, no matter what, you treat you treat any and every disease early! If you want to have a good outcome.

 

Maria Zeee: What we’ve also seen. And I want to know whether you and your colleagues have seen the same, is people that were in remission, people who had been undergoing chemo, were doing better, got the shots. And now, all of a sudden they have aggressive cancers.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah. And that’s a huge, huge concern I have. I just got back from some travels Paris, France, Miami, Houston, LA. But everywhere I went I had doctors come up to me:

 

“Yes, I have a friend, a brother, a cousin, a colleague, they had a stable stage one cancer of this type, or that type, and after the second, or the third shot, it took off like wildfire!”

 

Some people call them “wildfire cancers, turbo cancers”. But they go from stage one to stage four within a couple of weeks of that second, or third, shot. Again this goes to that spike disregulating immune pathways and normal repair mechanisms.

 

And even more importantly what we’re seeing, you have White blood cells that keep cancers in check. Most of those are your T-cells, your killer T-cells, your natural killer cells. And you and I, sitting here, anybody listening, has about 30 billion T-cells in circulation right now in your body. And a good percentage of those are killer T-cells.

 

[10:14]

 

Their job is to go around, … I call them kind of the “Marines” of your immune system. They’re shaking hands with all your cells all day long, saying:

 

“Friend, or foe? Friend, or foe?”

 

And if a cell is atypical, your body, that T-cell will throw a little hand grenade and blow up that atypical cell, or an infected cell, or even a bacteria. So these Marines surveilling your body all day long, that’s what they’re doing.

 

Now after the shot, unfortunately, there’s a couple of receptors in our body. They’re called “toll-like” receptors, like a toll road. And when these receptors are down regulated, these pattern receptors, the T-cells, are kind of waiting for instructions, or a signal. And they don’t have that. And toll like receptor number three and four are responsible for the entrainment of T-cells to fight cancer. And these T-cells end up being like drunk marines going back to the barracks and snoozing. Now you don’t have these marines on guard. Now, they’re not circulating, or they just don’t even know how to react to that friend, or foe signal.

 

And. So these wildfire cancers normally would be kept in check by this population of T-cells just fighting it off as constantly as possible. And that’s why a lot of cancers can be kept in check for many years, because you will constantly have your immune system trying to fight it off. So when you have a weakened immune system. Because the spike protein, the shots, the mRNA, the lipid nanoparticle itself, all these toxic agents turning off that immune response. Now the cancer says:

 

“Hey! I have nobody fighting me off!”

 

And then the cancer starts doubling very quickly, and then can spread very quickly.

 

Maria Zeee: I think this answers a lot of questions for people who, because they see their family members now who were recovering. And there was hope. And, all of a sudden, it’s now, so aggressive in their bodies. So is there anything that can be done to reverse this? To treat this?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: That’s a good question. I wish I had an easy answer for you and I don’t. The key is trying to turn the immune system back on after it’s been suppressed.

 

I mentioned that Stanford study. We don’t know, there’s not a single study yet showing when the body stops making the spike protein from the synthetic mRNA. Not one study.

 

The Stanford study stopped at 60 days. There was a Journal of Immunology study that showed at four months, spike was still circulating in exosomes. You know, similar to Dr Burkhart’s autopsy study, 128 days there. Dr Bruce Patterson. In one of his studies showed spikes still circulating in pac-man cells in your blood, monocytes, CD16 monocytes. So we know that spike is persistent for a long time. We know it inhibits so many important immune pathways.

 

Vitamin D levels are critical. I’d say vitamin D is like the conductor of your immune system. If you have vitamin D and normal levels you have this [word unclear] conductor of a symphony that brings sections in and out appropriately. If you have low vitamin D your immune system is like the mosh pit at a punk rock concert. [chuckling] So, it’s so important to have vitamin D in normal levels.

 

A lot of individuals are deficient in trace minerals. Selenium will activate your the cell activity. Selenium, about three, or four Brazil nuts a day. If you like eating Brazil nuts, that’s a very good source of natural selenium is. A little bit of zinc just enough not too much, kind of the Goldilocks effect. Zinc will activate your T-cells. A little magnesium at bedtime is very good for mobilizing your vitamin D and also other enzyme pathways.

 

Cutting out the sugar, the high fructose corn syrup. You know, those will disregulate your immune system. So the closer you can get to eating close to nature and then supplementing as needed. We already live kind of in a toxic food jungle of bad things that get put into the body.

 

Sleep is critically important for your immune system. The more your rest you get, appropriately seven, eight hours a night, then your immune cells are stickier, literally stickier! And they can talk to each other. If you don’t get enough sleep your cortisol levels are disregulated, and then your immune response is disregulated.

 

So. I mean, those are a few things one can do. The honest problem is we just don’t know when the body stops making this spike, and continues to drive some of those cancer pathways. And what I’ve heard from many oncologists I’ve talked to is the normal chemotherapies, or the normal treatments they do, the cancers aren’t responding as usual.

 

[15:08]

 

There’s a couple other things. It’s interesting, because Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, there are multiple anti-cancer studies for both of those medications. And there’s another drug that I’ve taken for three years for chronic mononucleosis. But it’s good for a lot of autoimmune conditions and that’s called low-dose naltrexone which can be compounded by a pharmacy. And it also helps modulate your immune response your T-cell response.

 

So there’s a lot of, again, off label, out of the box, super safe, long proven modalities, especially when the cancer isn’t responding to the traditional allopathic type therapies.

 

Maria Zeee: You mentioned something there that that your colleagues were seeing that the cancers weren’t responding in the normal way that they would to treatment. What do you mean by that question.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well normally, … So we’ve studied certain cancers long enough that we know many of them are going to respond. You know, say breast cancer will respond to certain hormonal therapies and a couple other chemotherapies.

 

But a big part of those chemo reactions is working hand in hand with your immune system. So even though the chemical is there, some of the pathways to get those chemicals to the cells, and, or once those cells are injured by the chemo, then it’s kind of a one-two punch of your immune system coming in and mopping up those cancer cells. So for whatever reason, even though the chemo is being given, the body isn’t responding in a way that it normally would, saying:

 

“Okay, we got this first dose to knock down the first line of the cancer cells, now my immune system should come in knock down the second line and mop up the debris of the cells that have been killed.”

 

And our immune system is being disregulated enough by the chronic toxic present of the spike protein, that again, those cells are equivalent to the Marines drunk in the barrack. They’re just not on the battlefield doing what they’re supposed to do. And so it’s that augmented effect of having not only the chemo but the immune cells working together. And I think that’s part of the reason why we’re just not seeing that effect. We’re just not seeing those cancers respond the way they normally would to some of those therapies. And I think that’s why these cancers are taking off so much faster.

 

I mean, I’ve heard of individuals that had stable stage one cancer and were dead two, or three weeks later. And I mean, that’s unheard of with a lot of the cancers that I’ve seen over my career and diagnosed! Because the progression of, … Certain types of cancers we call them indolent, or smouldering, where you just look at it and go:

 

“All right, you’ve got a lot of life ahead. We can keep the cancer in check. You’re going to do fine.”

 

And certain ones, certain even low-grade lymphomas, or leukemias, all of a sudden transform to high grade. And again, we’ve just disregulated enough of the gene pathways that I think we’ve made a big mistake internationally!

 

And I don’t mean to sound alarmist. I’m hopeful. We’re not seeing it in everybody, that’s the good news. Hard to explain why, other than there are multiple facilities making the shots. And I think some of them have different quality control practices than others. So I think some doses may be lower than others.

 

And some it may just not even be effective doses at all. If you see where people were lined up in stadiums and those little vials sat out in the hot sun, and probably degraded to where nobody got toxic anything! Because by the time they got a shot it was mush!

 

So who knows? I mean, it’s not everybody. There may be certain genetic subtypes of individuals that are more predisposed. There’s multiple things that it’s going to take us years to study and find out.

 

Maria Zeee: I was just about to say. This is going to take years to answer. That there’s no quick fix to this. And thank god for the vials that were sitting out in the sun that aren’t toxic to people. If that’s the case! [chuckling] seriously.

 

I wanted to ask you what other problems is this immune suppression causing in individuals? We know about the cancer. We’ve seen the DOD data about miscarriages. We’ve seen so much data coming out. But what else are we seeing?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, one of the important ones is reactivation of latent viruses. So again due to those immune suppressive effects and those toll-like receptors I mentioned. Toll-like receptors number seven and eight, those are responsible for keeping viruses in check.

 

[19:56]

 

So the other thing we’re seeing is reactivation of mononucleosis, herpes family viruses, human papilloma virus. So I’ve seen an uptick in human papilloma viruses in pap smears and cervical biopsies. Which leads to an increase in cervical cancers as well.

 

There was a really good paper out of the Netherlands on the Pfizer shots by Dr Fossa et al. And that one showed, and the conclusion in that paper was there’s a concerning disregulation of the innate immune system. That’s your dendritic cells, your macrophages, and T-cells. Those are the ones that keep viruses in check. Those are the ones that keep cancers in check.

 

So just as much as we’re seeing activation of cancers. We’re also seeing activation of so many other viral families. I find it interesting that in the summer here in the States when the shots started rolling out in the kids, all of a sudden we had an RSV outbreak, Respiratory Syncytial Virus. And off season, the wrong time of year, in the summer. Well, it’s, because kids were getting their shot! And what did it do? It suppressed them. And they’re even in the Pfizer data dump, I think it was two weeks ago, they admitted:

 

“Yeah, well after you get the shot you’re immune suppressed for at least a week, or two.”

 

Which is exactly when everybody after their shots started getting Covid.

 

Maria Zeee: Correct.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: So the shots we knew, well, I knew it early on when the data started coming out. Every time a shot would roll out you’d see a peak in Covid cases wherever in the world that was. So that’s the other concerning finding.

 

And this is important too, because people with Long Covid and, or Long Covid-like symptoms after their shots, their doctor really should be checking them for reactivated herpes family viruses. I have a colleague down in Texas he says anywhere from six to eight out of ten patients post shot that are coming in with fatigue are testing positive for reactivated mononucleosis, Epstein-Barr virus number four.

 

And. I mean, there are some treatments you can do. I keep mine in check on and off. I’ve suffered chronic fatigue for many years. But there are things one can do. But you can’t find that for which you do not look. So I just like to make people at least aware, gosh if you’re feeling that chronic fatigue, make sure you get an appropriate reactivated microbe panel.

 

I don’t know how prevalent Lyme disease is down there in Australia. But I know here in the States many regions people who have chronic Lyme, they’ll get reactivated Lyme disease, and many other microbes. So that’s the other concern.

 

And then you pointed out as well the DMED [Defense Medical Epidemiology Database], the military database. A huge concern that I have is the neurologic conditions. Increase in multiple sclerosis, which can be Epstein-Barr related. By the way. About 80 percent of cases have high titers of Epstein-Barr. Tremorsc seizures, neurocognitive decline. So many things of that nature.

 

And. This is why the shot is more dangerous than the virus now. So the virus before, when it was the Alpha Delta variant, original Wuhan variant, the spike would split. You had a S2 and an S1 subunit. And that S1 would split off and go into circulation cause clotting. That S1 could land anywhere in the body across the blood-brain barrier.

 

Now the shot is made for that original Wuhan spike. The shot is made for a virus that went extinct in humanity over a year ago! The Wuhan variant doesn’t exist! They have not modified these shots whatsoever!

 

With the Omicron variant it acts more like a cold. Because the mutation in that spike doesn’t allow for the S2 and the S1 to split apart as much. So you end up with more of a whole spike subunit instead of this split subunit, S1 and S2. Which means we’re seeing less clotting with Omicron. We’re seeing less severe disease and hospitalization with Omicron.

 

But where are we seeing this severe disease, and where are we seeing the clotting? From the shots!

 

Maria Zeee: From vaccinated people.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, from the shots proper. And that’s the problem now. The shot is more dangerous than the virus from a scientific point of view.

 

Maria Zeee: I want to go into this genetic clotting disorder and mystery blood clots that you’ve recently been speaking about.

 

But before we do, I just really want to clarify. What is “Long Covid”? We hear this term, what is it?

 

[24:40]

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well, it’s a constellation of findings. It’s not the same thing in any given individual. An important aspect of the fatigue and the persistent feeling that you’re still sick, a lot of that comes from. Also this is one I didn’t mention yet, is the damage that the spike can do to our mitochondria. The mitochondria is the powerhouse of your cell. So you have tons of mitochondria in every cell in your body.

 

We know in neurologic tissue from a study out of Poland they show that spike can get into the cell, can get into the mitochondria and then what’s called the “electron transport chain” it down regulates cytochrome C, which is the beginning of the pathway that goes all the way down to ATP, which is the energy for your cell. So it’s basically respiration at the individual cellular level. So it’s really weakening and knocking out a lot of mitochondria.

 

So that fatigue, that brain fog, the inability to just day-to-day function at the level one had before it’s, because it’s like throwing sand in your gas tank basically, or petrol tank, or whatever you call it! But it’s inhibiting full combustion at the cellular level for your cells to produce the normal amount of energy. So that’s one pathway. Again reactivated viruses causing fatigue, that’s another pathway. This spike protein is such a sneaky little thing that can cause so many symptoms, and so many diseases!

 

Long Covid isn’t the same between any given two individuals per se. So and this is where it’s important for a doctor to be caring, astute, and listening. Because there are different things they need to test to see which of these many different pathways may be happening in these patients that are chronically suffering.

 

Maria Zeee: When I spoke to Dr Robert Malone last year he said that what they were seeing was that the spike was going into the body and potentially activating things that were dormant. Things that would have never been a problem for individuals.

 

And now, all of a sudden you had a flare-up of, like you said, maybe herpes, or things that people would have normally been able to fight off. And I think you’ve explained that process to us. But it would be amplified from the shots themselves, rather than Covid. Correct?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Correct. And again, if you get Covid most people that are immune competent clear that virus within about a week, within about seven days there’s no whole virus left in our body. When I had Covid, Covid was three days for me. You know, did I take some early treatment? Sure. Most people that are immune competent clear that very quickly.

 

So to your point you’re absolutely right. And Dr Malone and I are good friends, and we talk about these mechanisms very often. And even certain micro RNA arrays that are getting messed up, G proteins, all sorts of mechanisms. If we had never introduced this shot into the body most people wouldn’t be having these problems.

 

And the answer is don’t get another dose of a toxic spike! So if you’ve taken one, fine. If you’ve taken two, I’m not here to judge anybody. But as a scientist now knowing the mechanisms, I’m here to say the third shot’s not going to do anything for you other than cause harm. A fourth shot’s not going to do anything for you other than cause harm. Because the shots aren’t formulated for the virus that is present.

 

The virus that’s present is completely mutated enough that the shots don’t cover it. In fact, we’ve seen data out of the UK showing that the body has a two to five times increased risk of getting sick from Omicron if you got your second, or third shot, than if you hadn’t!

 

So Wuhan is extinct. These shots are expired! These are scientifically expired! They don’t do anything now other than cause all these conditions, you and I have been talking about.

 

And that’s my concern as a scientist. Do I get cancelled, or censored, or fact-checked? You bet! All the time! Do I care? No! Because I say look I have the data, I have the papers, I have the peer reviewed material. If you disagree with me, wonderful! I don’t need some high school opinion maker that’s paid by Facebook, or Reuters, or one of these big companies, to say:

 

“You’re wrong! I fact-checked you!”

 

I’m like:

 

“No. I’m the scientist that sees all this on a daily basis.”

 

So does Dr Malone, so my other colleagues at the Global Covid Summit. We see this. We’re reporting it. We’re publishing it. It’s happening! The shots are expired. They are going to make your body more prone to very bad outcomes!
We’re starting to see this as well. This is the other sad part. The all-cause mortality death from all causes is now going up, in those who have gotten the shots, compared to those who haven’t.

 

And we have this false construct in society that the vaccinated and unvaccinated. No. There’s the vaccinated, the Covid recovered, which is the majority of individuals. And then that handful of individuals that haven’t had Covid or a shot.

 

But this false dichotomy needs to go away. And that’s politically how they try to divide us. You’re either in this purity signaling group, or not. Nonsense! If you’ve had Covid your immunity is 13 to 30 times better than if you had a shot. And that’s data out of Israel, data out of Qatar. And then they say:

 

“Well gosh, if you had Covid get one, or two shots, it gives you, you know, super immunity!”

 

Nonsense! That’s about as equivalent as superman! It doesn’t happen! It actually can lead to increased adverse reactions if you’ve had Covid and then get a shot on top of it, because it leads to a hyper immune response that your body doesn’t know how to deal with.

 

So I’m kind of rambling. So you can redirect me if you want. But those are some additional thoughts.

 

[30:46]

 

Maria Zeee: No, this is really important information Dr Cole. Because we’re at a point in society where people don’t want the booster. They’ve had their one and two that the government sort of pushed them to have. Told them:

 

“You can’t eat unless you undertake, you know, participate in this medical experiment.”

 

Disgraceful! But most of these people have had Covid and recovered, or at least what they think is Covid, whether it really was, whether the PCR was, …

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Sure.

 

Maria Zeee: I won’t get into that. What I’m saying is most people have recovered. And they’ve been fine, and they know people that have had Covid and recovered. They know unvaccinated people who fared much better than those who’ve had the shots.

 

So this is why this information is so crucial. Because we are at a point where I think many are starting to realize this is not necessary anymore, despite the governments trying to drag out this crisis, which just isn’t a crisis anymore, at all.

 

I wanted to ask you there’s been reports of a spike in cervical ulcers in young girls.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: I saw that, yeah.

 

Maria Zeee: Is this also related?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, so and those are, I mean, there’s a genetic condition called Behcets’ disease. And these are Behcets like ulcers. And again, a lot of these different cutaneous ulcers and mucosal ulcers are generally driven by either a certain type of microbe, a certain type of anaerobic bacteria and, or, a virus. And again, is everybody getting them? No. Or is there enough of an uptick?

 

Yes. I mean, there’s almost 100 kids now, in the UK that have had hepatitis. And I think six, or eight of them have needed a liver transplant. Why is that? Spike protein is toxic! Spike protein suppresses other viruses. Now you’re more prone to hepatitis A, or C, or D, or B. And like in these young women and these ulcers, it’s plain and simple their body is immune suppressed. And certain organisms that can cause those ulcers aren’t being kept in check.

 

And so this is the insanity now of moving forward with any booster for anybody. Again the shot is expired, it doesn’t cover Omicron. The shot does suppress your immune system. And then the shot allows all these other microbes to wake up and cause, like you mentioned, these ulcers and young women, other autoimmune diseases, other neurologic diseases, etc., etc.

 

So public policy always lags science by months, and months. So we’re having these mandates by public health officials that have never seen a patient, never treated a patient. They have a Master’s in Public Health. They’re not clinicians. And so they think they’re doing something good, when they don’t understand!

 

I mean, I understand the deep mechanisms of genes, of genetics, of viruses, of immunology, of virology pathology. It’s what I do every day.

 

And when I hear these public health officials saying:

 

“No, get your shot!”

 

I’m like:

 

“Oh my gosh!”

 

And never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by ignorance. But they’re ignorant! That’s the problem. They don’t know the facts! They don’t know the hard science! And they don’t know that what they’re choosing to do and telling people to do.

 

And the people are waking up, like you said. The people are quite awake and aware. But these public policy makers are literally harming people! And when I went into Medicine I took an oath to first do no harm, “primo non nocere”. And that’s physical harm, psychological harm, financial harm. I promise not to harm human beings. So people say:

 

“Well, why are you speaking out? You should just be quiet.”

 

I’m like:

 

“Because I see society harming people!”

 

And it’s my duty, as a caring physician to step up and say stop it! This is wrong! This is scientifically wrong! It’s harmful!

 

And we don’t know the long-term outcomes. We don’t have that crystal ball. We’ve only been doing this for a year and change, with these shots. I can only imagine what we’re going to see long term down the road in terms of effects from this. And that’s what’s very concerning to me.

 

[34:52]

 

Maria Zeee: And speaking of long term we’ve seen data coming out of the UK and Canada. And I believe the US now as well, if I’m not mistaken, supporting the fact that after two shots there is a severe decline in the immune system. After three it’s particularly alarming! And now we’re talking about fourth and fifth doses even here in Australia.

 

So can you speak to us about what happens? Do we know what the percentage of decline in the immune system is? Do we know, is there data around that?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well. I mean, there’s some data that looks at that. And it depends on the individual I guess is the quick and the easy answer. Depends on the individual but the short answer is, if you’ve been poisoned the answer isn’t take more poison!

 

Maria Zeee: Of course.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: I mean, if I gave you a little arsenic on your eggs for breakfast this morning you may have a tummy ache and a little hair might fall out, but you’d probably recover and do okay. But if I said, you know, every eight weeks I’m giving you a little bit more arsenic on your eggs in the morning, eventually you’re dead.

 

Similarly, to that analogy, the spike protein, … Again Salk Institute, and many other studies, we know that spike is toxic. Why in the world would we continue to introduce a shot into the body that makes a toxic product, that spiked protein, that continues to suppress our immune system! And eventually that immune suppression.

 

Again the answer is, we have no idea when the body is going to stop making that spike. So why keep stacking spike, on top of spike, on top of spike?

 

And this is where it is absolutely criminal and shameful for any doctor, any health care agencies, any health system, any hospital, any public health official, anywhere in the world, to say any one more individual needs one more of these shots! They’re expired! Wrong protein! Wrong virus! Wuhan is gone. These are for Wuhan. Omicron is here. BA2 is here. XE is here. Completely different. Most people have natural immunity. To most people Omicron’s a cold.

 

We need to stop poisoning people! With a toxic spike that causes immune suppression, that causes cancer, that causes neurologic conditions, that causes infections of other types, that causes all sorts of bodily harm! It makes no sense, whatsoever, to say a shot is the answer in the middle of a pandemic! Early treatment is! Early treatment saves lives.

 

And then the double, triple, crime in all of this is that anyone would put any of this into a child’s body! We don’t know the long-term outcome to their fertility. We know that the lipid nanoparticle goes to the ovaries. We know there are a lot of base two receptors on the ovaries and the eggs. A woman is born with every egg she will ever have a lot of base two receptor there. What binds to that? Circulating spike protein! What does that lead to? Inflammation. And so any cell that that lipid nanoparticle goes into carrying that mRNA, that secondarily expresses the spike on its surface, is now an enemy to the immune system. And your body’s going to attack those cells.

 

Why would we do this to our children?

 

I mean, this is not an approved shot. These are all still experimental world-wide! They say there are quote “approved shots”. But if you look at their data they were approved like community here in the US, was approved on data through March 31st, before Delta ever appeared, before Omicron ever appeared. They got they got their biologic licensing agreement through data that was very old, and very irrelevant.

 

And these shots are causing harm to a lot of people! And there is no way we use our children as human shields and guinea pigs. When kids survive this virus statistically at a hundred percent anyway.

 

So if you have someone that’s surviving a virus at a hundred percent. And there’s a shot that is now all risk with no benefit, no reward, why would you put even one of those in the arm of a child? I mean, that would be like me saying in front of some public peace officer:

 

“Hey! I’m just going to shoot this person once with this bullet. I don’t mean any harm!”

 

You know, something’s as stupid as that! I would get thrown in jail for that. And we have health care providers around the world that are brainwashed into thinking they’re doing something good for a patient when they’re actually harming them.

 

We have government officials and public health officials mandating something that people don’t need. And actually harming them! This is where you’re absolutely right when you pointed out, people are waking up, because there’s no emergency! We see that, plain and simple in front of our eyes!

 

Are there a handful of individuals that are still weakened and frail? You bet! Should we have protected them from the beginning of all this two years ago? You bet!

 

Maria Zeee: With early treatment.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, with early treatment! Absolutely! Because it saves lives. Always has, always will.

 

[40:01]

 

Maria Zeee: I want to talk now about this genetic clotting disorder Dr Cole. I saw some footage with you and Steve Kirsch where you actually lifted up these mystery blood clots. What are they? It’s not the first that we’ve seen. We’re talking, how many feet coming out of people?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Three feet, four feet long, veins and arteries. So some patients get the shot. And then they’re short of breath, or fatigued, or lethargic. Usually what we think about is you’ll think of like a deep vein thrombosis in the leg. And then you’ll end up with a saddle embolus where somebody will quickly die from an embolus to the lungs.

 

What’s interesting about these is when the shots rolled out, just like I was seeing with some cancers, I was seeing interesting clotting conditions in skin biopsies. And then I had a pathology colleague down in Texas call me and say:

 

“Hey! I’m seeing a lot of micro clots in the GI tract!”

 

So we were seeing early on after the roll out, the clotting condition, even on the micro level!

 

Now these ones that I showed in front of the camera on that Steve Kirsch interview. And these are coming from morticians, and pathologists, around the country. And Dr Pretorius in South Africa has done some good studies on the mechanism of the spike protein. And so normally you have a lot of little clotting factors in the blood. And this little waterfall cascade, this triggers this, triggers this, triggers this, plus platelets, plus fibrin and thrombin, equals clot.

 

What Dr Pretorius showed is without all those little factors and without the platelets, if you put the spike protein into the blood it will cause all the blood proteins to clump into a clot. So that’s why these look odd. They’re really like firm and rubbery, because it’s a thickened clumped protein.

 

So in Alzheimer’s you hear about amyloid in the brain. Amyloid plaques in the brain. Amyloid is a unique type of protein that’s difficult to break down. And that’s what the spike is triggering in the human body. And so you’ll get basically this amyloid-like, or amyloid-esque clot that normally you have your plasminogen, this enzyme that will break clots down, … Because it’s not a normal clot, it’s not easy for the body to break it down. And that’s another huge concern! Again we have this unique toxic spike protein that bypasses all these other physiological processes of the human body.

 

And here we are two years later, or year and a half later, just learning about these mechanisms in the laboratory, and science papers, and research. These all should have been done long before any shot ever rolled out onto humanity! And instead we’re seeing people die suddenly from these clots blocking off circulation to the brain, or to the heart, or to the lungs, infarcting a liver, or a spleen, or an organ, a kidney. These are not normal clots. It’s a very unique type of protein deposited within these.

 

Maria Zeee: So to clarify. I just want to make sure I and the audience understand. The clots are happening, because of the spike. The spike again is the main culprit here. And are we saying that these amyloid clots that we see in Alzheimer’s patients, are we saying that for those who survive these clots that they could potentially end up with early onset Alzheimer’s, as well?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: That was another paper that just came out about a week ago showing the ability for these amyloid proteins to break off of the clot circulate and go to neurologic tissue. So that’s another potential concern. That was an animal study. But that amyloid again everything’s not these big clots. You’ve got the micro ones too. And that amyloid, a sheet of protein, can transmit and deposit in neurologic tissues. So that is a long-term concern.

 

Maria Zeee: And then these sort of larger clots that are killing people, are they restricted to one area, or are they could they happen anywhere?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: They can happen anywhere. And this is what was interesting, the morticians would find. Because normally when they would preserve a body, you know, they’ll find a vein, find an artery. And they’ll pump their preservative fluid in. They were finding that they couldn’t get the fluid to go in, because these clots were so thick and blocking off so many vessels!

 

So I have one patient where that individual had about a dozen of these large ones, anywhere from 12 inches to 48 inches. Literally, it’s like Iceman comes up in some Avenger movie and freezes everything! It’s just like freezing the blood into these tubes in certain patients!

 

So is it everybody? No, it’s not. But we still don’t know who’s genetically predisposed to this, versus others who aren’t. And it’s literally, … I mean, people demeaned me for calling these “the clot shot”, a year and a half ago, or I guess a year ago. And I’m like:

 

“Well, now I’m right!”

 

I didn’t want to be right! I don’t want to be right on any of these things I’m sharing with you! All I am, a pathologist. We’re the quality control of Medicine. We’re the observers. I’m a reporter. All I do is report what I see. I don’t cause the disease, I don’t prevent the disease, I don’t cure the disease. I report the disease!

 

So what I’m doing here is reporting the process. And I’m calling on my colleagues in the laboratories around the world to quit your silence and speak up. Because I have plenty of people that have approached me, that are also pathologists, saying:

 

“Hey, thanks for speaking out. I can’t say anything, I’ll lose my job!”

 

I’m like:

 

“Well, don’t make me the tall blade of grass! Join me!”

 

And that’s really what we need to end this narrative, and end this problem with all of these different things, is everybody to speak up! Because courage begets courage. And once some people wake up then more people wake up. And then this whole game is over. And then we don’t harm any more people.

 

But in the laboratory, I’m just reporting what we’re seeing. And these clots are a problem.

 

[46:21]

 

Maria Zeee: So with these clots is there anything that people can do preventatively, if someone has been injected?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well, it’s interesting. So one of them, the triggering mechanisms, there’s a receptor on the blood vessel linings, the red blood cells, as well as the platelets, called CD147. And that little protein marker is where the spike likes to bind. Well, guess what binds there and inhibits the spike? Ivermectin. That’s one of its about 20 mechanisms of action, that are not only antiviral, but also anti-inflammatory and anti-clotting. Another good anti-clotting agent is Hydroxychloroquine. One of the best anti-clotting agents of all is a normal vitamin D level. If you have a normal vitamin D level, above 50 nanograms per milliliter you’re far less inclined to clot! So everybody thinks:

 

“Oh gosh, I go out in the sunshine!”

 

Usually not during the hot peak of the day when you would be getting your normal amount. And in the spring and summer you can get adequate D. But in the fall and winter, the UVB rays bounce off of the atmosphere. You can’t synthesize D for several months in the winter time. People need normal vitamin D that inhibits clotting.

 

Now the primary clotting pathway for the virus itself is what we call the thromboxane A2 pathway. And the best inhibitor of that is plain and simple aspirin. Not too much! But just enough. So I’m again a big believer in the “Goldilocks effect” in life. Just enough, not too much.

 

So a baby aspirin every day, or every other day, is pretty harmless in terms of the human body. But it’s pretty helpful in terms of inhibiting that pathway from happening. If you’re going to get a shot make sure you’re doing something to inhibit clotting before you even get the shot.

 

And another one that’s really interesting that does break down fibrin quite well. There’s a traditional food in northern Japan called “natto”, which is a fermented soy product. And there’s an enzyme in that soy. It’s fascinating in that population, you don’t see a lot of deaths from heart disease, or strokes. And they live to a ripe old age. And that’s because in natto is an enzyme called nattokinase. And that enzyme is very prone to breaking down fibrin. So that’s just one other thing, one an individual can do.

 

As well as staying hydrated. I could put a needle in a hundred people’s arms right now and most people will be dehydrated. The more dehydrated you are, the more prone you are to clotting. So that’s just another thing to keep into consideration is. Just make sure you get adequate hydration during the day. I’m going to close my blind here. I noticed the sun’s peeking through.

 

Maria Zeee: Sure, sure. I’ll just speak to the audience for a moment. If you are watching this. And you have a loved one, or a friend or even if you meet a stranger that has been injected, encourage them to watch this and educate themselves, but also talk to them about these preventative measures from clotting.

 

I mean, like you said Dr Cole we’re not judging people that have done it. But we’re actually now, in the business of is saving lives and mopping up the devastating effects of these injections. And so it’s important to maintain our compassion for people in this time.

 

[49:43]

 

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Absolutely correct! Yes.

 

Maria Zeee: Do we know about natural blood thinners, like lemons, etc., are they things that can also assist?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: The closer you live in nature the better. So I mean, most Medicines actually come from nature until, you know, our modern era, you know, got into synthetic Medicines. There are so many things. The closer you can eat to the earth, I’m literally here on my organic farm right now. I have nine acres of veggies, I have 250 fruit trees, I have my lambs, and my cows out in my pasture. I try to live close to nature. And yes, there are plenty of things one can do.

 

Maria Zeee: Wonderful. I want to ask Dr Cole, if people want to follow you, you recently had the Global Covid Summit. Is that done now, or is that going to be a recurring event?

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Well it’s a recurring event. So if you go to globalcovidsummit.org, that’s usually where we’ll have our events. I know we have some down weeks as each of us in the group are kind of going in to different lecture circuits for the different next two, or three weeks. But then we’ll be back together in May sometime, as well as in June.

 

And usually at each one we try to bring what’s the most up-to-date science, what are the most up-to-date studies. Me personally, R as in Ryan R Cole, colermd.com. Which is very simple. I post some of my videos there. I’ll repost this there and share links. And then I get like frequently asked questions, you know, say to the clotting, or things like that, because I’ll get hundreds of inquiries per day and there’s only one of me.

 

Maria Zeee: Yes!

 

Dr Ryan Cole: With colleagues. So you’re probably thankfully Kelly connected us. But it’s so hard to get hold of me. I apologize.

 

Maria Zeee: It is! It’s okay.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: But when I do get a common question from about a hundred questions, then it’s easier just to convey that in one short synopsis for all those people. So I wish I could answer everybody. And like you mentioned we’re here to help people. This isn’t judgment. This is here’s the concerning factors. We need public policy to match what the science is. And we’re here to help people who have been injured and to prevent other people from being injured, absolutely!

 

Maria Zeee: You have some words of encouragement Dr Cole for those who are saying they’re desperately trying to wake up their loved ones. But they’re not listening.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Don’t give up hope. Don’t be judgmental. Be kind, be loving. Don’t forget we’re all in this human condition. Yes, this has been divisive. But we’re still all just humans. You can try, don’t force people, people don’t react to forcing quite well, quite too well. Just keep loving them. And they’re individuals they are going to make their individual choice. Hopefully you can help them be informed, so they don’t make a choice that’s going to harm.

 

So just remember to hug people! Remember to love your loved ones! Remember to laugh! Laughter really is the best Medicine, believe it, or not. Laughter releases nitric oxide. Not nitrous oxide! Nitric oxide in your circulation literally kills viruses!

 

Maria Zeee: Really!

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Right, really! Yep, laughter is the best Medicine. So let’s laugh!

 

And again, if you want somebody to listen to you make sure you listen to them. So hear their concerns. I try to be very balanced in what I do. If somebody opposes my thought I say:

 

“Great! Wonderful. Present your thoughts to me. So I can process it.”

 

And then, if I have an answer that’s different, at least the other individual has been heard. You can’t be heard until you hear someone else.

 

So I think it’s very important for all of us to get back around that campfire and listen to each other, whether we agree, or not. It’s so important to share. And again, we’re not always going to agree. That’s fine. But just having that voice and having that listening ear brings us back together as a human family. I think that’s so important.

 

Maria Zeee: And it’s something that we’re missing. It’s something that was really destroyed during the time of lockdowns. It’s something that social media has contributed really negatively to, as well, because it’s easier to connect through our phones. But that human contact is so crucial.

 

And I always say, someone who looks at my website Dr Cole might think what a crazy conspiracist! Right? But when you meet me in person. And you see the conviction in my eyes and you hear it in my tone, it’s a totally different thing. So we need to keep that human contact going in that care for our neighbour.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: We do. Absolutely we do! And that human contact. I mean, physical contact is so good for immune health. Giving that hug, being in proximity, and literally. I mean, sharing just our cloud of our own microbiome being in the physical space of each other is not a bad thing, it’s a good thing. In the sense that it trains our immune system.

 

And the real pandemic in my mind was fear. And they intentionally induced a fear into the people. And I’ll admit I was afraid for a hot minute for the first week, or two, until I really doubled down on my virology and immunology that I’d already studied. I’m like now, we don’t need to worry about this. And then it’s been trying to combat that fear for the last, you know, two plus years. Just anybody I could teach, I would teach. Because then they would go:

 

“Oh! I don’t need to be so afraid!”

 

I’m like:

 

“No you don’t.”

 

And so you’re right, just coming together in community in closeness. Lockdowns were evil. And they still are evil! Because they’ve accomplished absolutely zero! I like my colleague Dr Paul Alexander, he writes a lot at brownstone.org. And he has this one paper, “400 things we did and the studies that showed that nothing we did worked”. And including lockdowns. Lockdowns are nothing short of cruelty! They didn’t save a soul.

 

[55:48]

 

Maria Zeee: Dr Cole it’s potentially a conversation for another time. But I’ll quickly mention last night I interviewed Dr Tess Laurie. And we were discussing the WHO pandemic agreement. And we’re talking about giving an organization like the World Health Organization, who’s done nothing good for two years, power over every country’s constitution. This is going to supersede every country’s constitution.

 

And they’re talking about more measures, harsher measures, even use the word “punishment” for those countries who don’t go ahead with what they’re proposing for future pandemics! Could you just quickly comment on that? The risks of that.

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Yeah, this is gravely important! Every citizen in the world needs to wake up to this right away. Because these international health regulations that they’re using literally to try to usurp the Constitution of any and every country. The WHO is owned by Pharma. 70% of its funding comes from Pharma. The rest comes from Bill Gates and China. And some of the nation donors.

 

The WHO spends more on travel than it does on disease. The WHO is an absolutely corrupt organization! And we need to stop! They need to go away! It’s not that we need to modify the WHO. No! It just needs to go away.

 

And we need to start a better, more ethical, health foundation. Dr Laurie would be, Tess would be a great leader of that, and World Council for Health. I’ll be with her in London next month at a meeting. And we’re trying to get the ethical doctors of the world together. Because we are not corrupted by Pharma money! That’s why we’re speaking out! We’re independent.

 

And the world needs to be aware of what you just said. And it’s not conspiracy. This is the WHO literally trying to become the power of the world, and to treat you with cruelty, and force you into Pharma drugs that you don’t need.

 

Maria Zeee: Yes, yes. Thank you for adding to that Dr Cole. I think it we really need global awareness around this. Thank you as well for your bravery, your courage, for being that person that other people look up to and saying, oh gosh! Thank you so much for speaking up! I encourage more to do it. Now the time really is now.

 

We’re at a crucial point in history particularly with these moves from the WHO. We can’t have this happen. And you’ve been silent for a couple of years you’ve been worried about your own skin, but really – I’m not talking to you, I’m talking to them – but really that time is over! You can’t worry about your own skin. This is about all of humanity and we need more people speaking up.

 

Dr Cole I’ll include those couple of links in the description. I’ll update it. And I’ll send you this. Please do share this interview far and wide! Subscribe to this Rumble channel, if you’re not already subscribed! Give this video a rumble, with a little plus in the bottom left-hand corner of the screen. And head to zeeemedia.com for all of my latest interviews.

 

Also a really quick plug to was media’s sponsor Dr Zelenko. There is a link down the bottom where you can get five percent off for his products.

 

And again, Dr Cole. Thank you so much for your time today, god bless!

 

Dr Ryan Cole: Thank you. You as well.

 

 

[58:57]

 

 

END

 

 

[Readers: If you see any errors (however minor), or ways to improve things, in the transcript, please let me know in the Comment section.

Also please share the link to this transcript, so others can benefit. Thanks.]

 

 

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Rumble Comments

 

79 Comments

 

PatrioticDuty01, 2 weeks ago
I recommend everyone to read Real Anthony Fauci by Bobby Kennedy Jr. On chapther 3 he explains how Ivermectin could have saved 80 percent of deaths Worldwide. This book have opened my eyes. I now know that, 90% of all medicine is not for anything else than profit for them. Low profit and effective medicines are bashed and marketed as ineffective because they go against their narrative and profit plans. One of them is wonder drug Ivermectin. I see that everyday people search for it but can’t find a place to obtain. You can get yours by visiting https://www.ivmcures.com
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56 rumbles

Libertarian99, 2 weeks ago
If you like that info you should check out dr Joel Wallach. In the year 1900 they knew how to cure 700 known diseases in livestock animals using only MINERALS & VITAMINS as they needed food prices to remain low. He says every disease is a NUTRIENT DEFICIENCY DISEASE as he promotes the 90 nutrients needed for health which he calls the MIGHTY90 and has been promoting it for almost 30 years now. Dr Wallach has always said your average MD is the 3rd worst serial killer due to their treatments and says antibiotics is the only thing he would buy from big pharma. Dr Wallach has brought the corrupt FDA to court 8 times and won as they tried to ban vitamins and minerals in the past. He says our bodies have divine intelligence to heal ourselves and all we have to do is give our bodies the raw nutrients to heal itself. Of course John D Rockefeller took over that industry around 1910 and called things that worked as QUACKERY. If people can’t get Ivermectin remember you can make your own HYDROXYCLORIQUINN at home by boiling the RINES of 3 cantaloupes & 3 lemons for 3 hours on simmer. Lots of info about that on YT. Heard Dr Sherry Tenpenny explain that too.
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22 rumbles

JMPG, 2 weeks ago
Thanks for info. I had seen recipes for HCQ on YT but was not sure about efficacy.
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6 rumbles

FordeeeJH, 2 weeks ago
On the same page as you. My friend has made hydro too with rinds of lemons and grapefruits. Big pharma have had their day.
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5 rumbles

Alohasunset, 1 week ago
Oh cantaloupes as well.. thought it was grapefruit. But yes this would be something we can all easily make to help us
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Libertarian99, 1 week ago
FordeeeJH & Alohasunset- Thanks for correcting that. Yes, Rines of Grapefruit and lemons.
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realKish, 16 hours ago
Love Wallace’s work, thanks for reminder. Is cantaloupe another name for grapefruit? Grapefruit peels contain quinine. I cook 3 grapefruit peels + 3 lemon peels (eat the flesh as normal). Cover with distilled water, cook in slow cooker six hours. Do not remove lid until cool. Can freeze portions – 2 tablespoons daily (1 x twice daily). Also, drink pine needle tea 3 cups daily) or dandelion leaf tea (3-4 cups daily) or star anise (ground like coffee), 2-3 cups daily. Blocks spike from docking on ACE2 receptor.
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yarnover128, 2 days ago
Using organic produce of course
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willowsong, 2 weeks ago
Great recommendation and fantastic book. Amazingly referenced. And every penny goes to support the work the Children’s Defense Fund does, which helps shed light on vax harms. He’s not taking a penny of profit. Really good man.
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14 rumbles

FordeeeJH, 2 weeks ago
Ive got the book at last now, I’ve been on the waiting list here in the UK to read the real Anthony Fauci. Kennedy is an amazing man, humanitarian and incredibly knowledgeable and compassionate. Thank God for people like him..he is heaven sent. I have listened to so many of his interviews now. I listened to him talk about the power of 5 last year. And although I don’t meet many people, I’m retired now, I spread the word now every chance I get. Great man.
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4 rumbles

baking0707, 2 weeks ago
Thank you. I will check it out
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Endofdays333, 2 weeks ago
ya everytime they say covid death besides bs test of dying with should say , COVID/GOVERMENT MURDERS , PREMEDITATED,
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4 rumbles

PeterCryptoRoo, 2 weeks ago
Note: We do not ship Ivermectin products to Australia
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1 rumble

3rdGrace, 2 weeks ago
What has that got to do with anything?? Many countries have problems getting IVM, but we’re figuring out ways to get it!
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6 rumbles

PepeLePede, 2 weeks ago
I’m happy to report that I received two boxes of paste… for my horse of course.
7 rumbles

Corruptus, 2 weeks ago
Makes me sad. Everyone I know but my wife and kids took that crap.
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30 rumbles

willowsong, 2 weeks ago
My family and friends, too. Let’s hope all our loved ones got the saline or even the low-dose jabs.
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17 rumbles

NoAngelJustMe, 2 weeks ago
Thats what I’m hoping for to One daughter, my husband, the rest of my family and my friends all took it. And even 3 kids under 16.
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5 rumbles

yarnover128, 2 days ago
Red states got lethal lots of bioweapon…see reesereport
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DaisysMum, 2 weeks ago
It is hard when even my brother and his young girls have all been given the clot shot. All my friends who are in the older age group. Heck apart from myself and the OH are shot. I hope it’s not going to be so lonely in 5 years time.
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9 rumbles

FordeeeJH, 2 weeks ago
We all need to keep hope and faith in all of the credible doctors, scientists desperately working to find an antidote. Go to The World Council for Health, you should find Dr Tess Lawrie, Dr Peter McCullough and lots of other high profile names. There is advice on how to detox metals etc, like Zeolite, NAC. It won’t remove all but it will help a lot. And vitamin D of course. I take so many now I rattle! I didn’t take the jabs cus I didn’t think they could have possibly explored interactions of this wonder vax with different medications and med conditions (as I have a few) but I am convinced I have high levels of metals myself even without the jabs. I am currently trying to get off opioid meds and other prescription meds. Point is we may all have a Health journey to face but now we know who are real enemies are. Big pharma and our Govs. Find our real allies now. We all in this together, from here in the UK to Aus, NZ, US and all over the world. Take care all. X
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5 rumbles

NoAngelJustMe, 2 days ago
I feel you My husband and one daughter has taken 2 each and my parents and extended family 3 so far I worry about them and I am so concerned about their future. Scared to loose them sooner and lots of worries about their health as months turns to year’s. I hope they all have stopped believing in the jab’s now but I don’t know. They get mad at me when I try to tell them anything
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lightfromabove, 2 weeks ago
same here
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TechMom7, 2 weeks ago
Same here.
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1 rumble

LuckyRain, 2 weeks ago
I had Covid. I was sick for a week. I was fine and able to go back to work after that. Yes, I did NOT take this experimental injections! I just let my God Given immune system for me. . Thank you Dr. Cole and Mariazeee.
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19 rumbles

youwho, 2 weeks ago
Dr Robert Malone and Dr Peter McCullough both say “Give the jab to immune compromised and old or vulnerable people”. That is the reason I have never trusted them. I think he is being over generous in saying doctors are doing this in ignorance. If they are still that ignorant they don’t qualify to call themselves doctors.
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17 rumbles

Ronaldlees, 2 weeks ago
I think Malone thinks that mRNA tech is valuable, but the way it was done this time was bad, mistakes were made, and all we have to do is fix the mistakes, and then the tech will be great. That’s my opinion of his opinion, which I perceive by the way he delivers his information, and the nuance I seem to pick up from it. I think mRNA is bad, period, becuz there will always be mistakes, and they are too costly.
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7 rumbles

NoAngelJustMe, 2 weeks ago
No one should get the MRNAshots Nobody. They are not a vaccine at all! And the people who forces them on us know that!
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7 rumbles

GypsyinAus, 2 weeks ago
Can’t wait for this show….love this channel…Thankyou Maria.
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17 rumbles

ExBabylonian, 2 weeks ago
Amazing Interview big thanks to you both.
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JackBurtonKBF, 2 weeks ago
Dr Cole is the man. Top fella and I’ve been listening to him since his first talk on HCQ. Brilliant guy.
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13 rumbles

Built4Purpose, 2 weeks ago
A natural blood thinner that is also known to heal arteries – a wee pinch of cayenne pepper every morning. My husband was told to do this 5 years ago, his blood is fabulous now, I do it as a maintenance thing.
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12 rumbles

2dgamemania, 2 weeks ago
interesting, i have a raw garlic clove once a day. Done wonders for me.
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3 rumbles

heatheram29, 2 weeks ago
Complete Hero!!
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11 rumbles

laurakeet, 2 weeks ago
I love this guy. He is so full of truth.
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10 rumbles

Applesewer, 2 weeks ago
I really like your interviews Maria Zeee. You ask good, common sense questions.
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9 rumbles

joanie333, 2 weeks ago
Thank you Maria, for having such wonderful guests. Ryan is such a heart-felt, noble, empathic, honourable man! Very good information for everyone.
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9 rumbles

lightfromabove, 2 weeks ago
I would like you to ask these popular doctors about nano tech observed by microscopes… they never mention it, never explain it, so what are the others seeing with microscopes???? normal stuff or not? It bugs me nobody like Malone, Cole mention that???
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7 rumbles

Hedva, 2 weeks ago
Listening to Drs Corrie Madej and Lee Merrit on rumble, borax scrubbing was mentioned to remove nanoparticles.
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2 rumbles

HBGdave, 2 weeks ago
Thanks. Interesting and nice to hear such good advice. Don’t get the boosters, it is simply insane to do so.
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7 rumbles

fitnessrocker1, 2 weeks ago
These are smart people who created this poison vax..it is doing exactly as intended…helping to mass murder the gullible and venerable.
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6 rumbles

FatherCorapiCatholicChannel, 2 weeks ago
The jab is a killer, my cousin who was healthy was conned into getting the jabs, a few weeks after her 2nd jab she couldn’t breath, rushed to hospital was told she miraculously developed stage 3C ovarian cancer. She was so sick, her body kept filling up with fluid, so the hospital decided to try a small amount of chemo in the hope that helped, within a week she was dead. I have no doubt they know the jab caused her sudden cancer & death, but will remain silent. This jab is the perfect murder, it is genocide.
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6 rumbles

TechMom7, 2 weeks ago
I am so so sorry.
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3 rumbles

FordeeeJH, 2 weeks ago
So very sorry for your loss. Its absolutely shocking. Crimes against humanity. This time Nuremberg trials should ensure all of those guilty should be punished and not rewarded by a new life and job else where, so they can repeat their crimes. No compensation for your loss but it will hopefully one day help you some.
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3 rumbles

Contora78, 2 weeks ago
Great interview!
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6 rumbles

justpassinthru5, 2 weeks ago
Thank you Once again an amazing show!
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6 rumbles

PatrioticTrumpet, 2 weeks ago
tremendous amount of well needed information. THANK YOU
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6 rumbles

pickonme, 2 weeks ago
My concern is Doctors that promote this vaccine for elderly and compromised people…. in other words I read that as “LET THEM DIE”. IF you listen to many of these Doctors who are “against” the vaccine… they STILL promote it for our most vulnerable which I see as VERY HYPOCRITICAL! This vaccine is “DEADLY TO ALL WHO TAKE IT…… PLEASE NO ONE TAKE THIS VACCINE!” EVERY PERSON WHO PROMOTED THIS VACCINE IN ANY WAY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED FOR MURDER!
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5 rumbles

SaraSamec, 2 weeks ago
Such an interesting and informative interview and adorable doctor!
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5 rumbles

AEtherEMF, 2 weeks ago
https://theuniversalantidote.com SARS CoV2 air-infectious-particle not proven to exist, a S-Protein is a poison NOT the spiked TV ball virus delusion, Multi-Poisons are in WW3 war theatre, Synthethic S-Proteins only one, eg tests & jabs, more synthetic mRNA creations in LNPs,, graphene, Ethylene Oxide, Siver Azide, nano-tech, chemtrails, heavy metals RF Microwave Radiation antennae exposure, all sorts 177 health/science institutions globally all failed to cite even 1 record of “SARS-COV-2” purification, by anyone, anywhere, ever – As of February 25, 2022 – https://www.fluoridefreepeel.ca/68-health-science-institutions-globally-all-failed-to-cite-even-1-record-of-sars-cov-2-purification-by-anyone-anywhere-ever Downloaded insilico [computer] from China to manufacture jab potions because TV-virus-particle real-world does not exist – www.cormandrostenreview.com ***DOWNLOAD: The world must go to —-> www.bit.ly/awcevidence <—- download all pdf’s and videos. All the evidence the world needs to see to understand the COVID19 SARS-CoV-2 LIE will be found. Learn difference between legal & lawful ‘jurisdictions’, watch first x4 simple website foundational knowledge videos. —-> www.awarriorcalls.com – Livestreams —> https://rumble.com/c/c-443257 — https://www.brighteon.com/channels/awarriorcalls No ‘TV virus’ but a ‘mass poisoning’ of many different types deployed, even hospital protocol order following fiscally incentivised.
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5 rumbles

the20percent, 2 weeks ago
Awesome as always! Thank you!
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5 rumbles

iskwewak, 1 week ago
I learned about SaNOtize almost a year ago. It’s a nitric oxide nasal spray. That has been suppressed to the masses. It was invented in Canada. Did great in all the trials. Killed covid and varients in 2 minutes what more do we want?!!! With no side effects; so just more BS that our government is not looking after our health(we must), they’re not working for us. Nitric oxide has been used on premies for forever to prevent illness.
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4 rumbles

MollyBNC, 2 weeks ago
He’s an extraordinary man and doctor!
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4 rumbles

Endofdays333, 2 weeks ago
Faucie gates all governments and newscasters for DEATH PENALTY! LETHAL INJECTION!
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4 rumbles

3rdGrace, 2 weeks ago
Where is “doctor” Ruby, ranting about doctor Cole’s tie? Ugh!
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4 rumbles

willowsong, 2 weeks ago
She’s actually equivalent to a doctor–all the same prescribing rights, etc. But she hangs out with disinfo agent Stew Peters, so I no longer give her credence.
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1 rumble

pickonme, 2 weeks ago
WILLOW….. STEW PETERS BRINGS OUT A LOT OF REAL INFORMATION…. MAYBE YOU SHOULD STICK WITH DON LEMON AND JOY BEHAR.
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5 rumbles

DeeisFree, 1 week ago
Such a brilliant interview! As always from Dr. Cole; smart, intelligent, level headed facts. And as always from Maria; a smart, intelligent interview with well considered questions.
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3 rumbles

oxgmcx, 2 weeks ago
Here is another video featuring Ryan Cole … great work Maria! https://rumble.com/vxxcl9-saif-41-when-will-the-mantra-of-safe-and-effective-loose-its-appeal-among-t.html
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3 rumbles

PatrickJordan, 2 weeks ago
Steve Kirch sent us here. So the clotting is basically Mad Cow Blood. Prions in the Plumbing. The only thing that I’ve seen that can address amyloid (false word) tangles is to open the molecule with sodium laurel sulfate (coconut oil) lyse it with carboxylic acid (lactic/acetic) and then dissolve it with serine proteases. Other than black stone flower lichen that can deliver serine protease that I’m working on as a home remedy, I don’t know another source of that enzyme.
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3 rumbles

2dgamemania, 2 weeks ago
That last few minutes about the WHO is scary, i just hope they dont succeed.
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3 rumbles

SouWester, 2 weeks ago
Today in the Epoch Times: mRNA Vaccines Produce Persisting Spike Protein, Likely Causing Clots, Heart Inflammations, Cancers: Dr. Ryan Cole By Harry Lee and Roman Balmakov April 18, 2022 Updated: April 19, 2022 https://www.theepochtimes.com/mrna-vaccines-produce-persisting-spike-protein-likely-causing-clots-heart-inflammations-cancers-dr-ryan-cole_4407193.html?utm_source=morningbriefnoe&utm_campaign=Aomb-2022-04-19&utm_medium=Aoemail&est=OV6UbIue2EmssJV0BMs29NAcMaSoCWoYlUKyDBGrydySSpT0b9D4WrQWyndZRB0%3D
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3 rumbles

NelsonM67, 2 weeks ago
This video has also been made available and preserved on the uncensorable, permanent, distributed, peer-to-peer-network platform LBRY: lbry://@ZeeeMedia#3/Dr.-Ryan-Cole—Cancer,-Depleting-Immune-Systems-and-The-WHO-Pandemic-Treaty-vyss6t#6 *** and on the related web portal Odysee: https://odysee.com/@ZeeeMedia:3/Dr.-Ryan-Cole—Cancer%2C-Depleting-Immune-Systems-and-The-WHO-Pandemic-Treaty-vyss6t:6?r=HCLAAPgYMJ8zCjnm8BFRuxYCLTvj6CHe
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3 rumbles

AEtherEMF, 2 weeks ago
Mass multivector poisoning whats happening no SARS CoV infectious particle proven to exist, for that matter any other big-pharma-virus-infectious-particle, only deployed poisons do, eg spraying chemical DDT created Polio Explosive Evidence Virology a Global Lie NO COVID19 SARS-CoV-2 Exists – Part 1 – https://rumble.com/vzpdql-united-we-stand-with-police-genocide-is-occurring-part-1.html – 2h 19m 45s – 4Apr22 – A Warrior Calls Explosive Evidence Virology a Global Lie NO COVID19 SARS-CoV-2 Exists – Part 2 – https://rumble.com/vzpet7-united-we-stand-with-police-genocide-is-occurring-part-2.html – 1h 6m 23s – 4Apr22 – A Warrior Calls Rockefeller funded Pasteur Germ Theory Pt.1 | The scam of the century goes back to one man – https://www.brighteon.com/b14dba33-db7b-44dc-98aa-c9bf962e5bb3 – 12m 54s -Aug21 – FalconsCAFE Coronavirus Truths: Part 2: Koch’s Postulates Not Being Used at All for COVID-19, Why? July 3, 2020 – https://frankreport.com/2020/07/03/coronavirus-truths-part-2-kochs-postulates-not-being-used-at-all-for-covid-19-why Virology pseudo-science exposed – www.cormandrostenreview.com – insilico [computer model] downloaded poison – https://brandnewtube.com/@DrTomCowan
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3 rumbles

katana17, 2 weeks ago
Maria, here’s a transcript of your informative discussion with Dr Ryan Cole: Maria Zeee – Dr Ryan Cole – Cancer, Depleting Immune Systems, and the WHO Pandemic Treaty – Apr 18, 2022 – Transcript https://katana17.com/2022/04/24/maria-zeee-dr-ryan-cole-cancer-depleting-immune-systems-and-the-who-pandemic-treaty-apr-18-2022-transcript/ Also, some other Covid related transcripts.
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2 rumbles

realKish, 2 weeks ago
Great info, thank you! Not supplementing aged care residents with Vit D isn’t just foolishness, it’s by design. Just like the $2 and change allocated per main meal. Aged care facilities, unless you’re wealthy, are warehouses.The Rockefeller Medicine symptom suppression, disease management repeat business model was never about good outcomes – I think most ppl now understand that?
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2 rumbles

TechMom7, 2 weeks ago
This is the best interview I have heard all year!
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2 rumbles

johnbeaudoinsr, 2 weeks ago
This article has all the data necessary to cease all these faux-vaccines. Read this article or skim it and look at the data tables at the end. https://coquindechien.substack.com/p/c19-vaccine-the-cause-of-causes?s=w
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2 rumbles

JMPG, 2 weeks ago
Really good explanation by Dr Ryan Cole.
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2 rumbles

Watcher888, 2 weeks ago
Think about these neuro-degnerative people driving around like loose canons!
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2 rumbles

Jwtfuw, 2 weeks ago
Harry Vox, please beautiful Maria!!!
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2 rumbles

Ronaldlees, 2 weeks ago
As I mentioned on the Dowd thread, the bug is like doubling your pennies every day. On the first few days, and in the first week, you have small number of pennies. After 30 days of doubling your pennies, you have $5 million dollars worth of pennies. It’s the same with bugs. You can stop the bugs in the first week cuz they’re just like the few number of pennies. By day 30 you’re screwed (actually, well before that). So, purposely waiting til late in the game allowed the bugs to win the millionaire prize, and many of us to go broke or die.
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2 rumbles

Hedva, 2 weeks ago
Your metaphor of pennies is good. The red blood cells clump into penny rolls with progression of the blood contamination.
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2 rumbles

AEtherEMF, 2 weeks ago
Long Covid – poisoning of body by injection/ingestion of poisons &/or dose exposure absorption RF Microwave Radiation from Cell Towers / home WiFi, smart phones polluting the environment air cannot see or feel. RF connectable to any conductive particles in body. No suvery of RF Microwaves in environment to discount then your just guessing.
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2 rumbles

realKish, 15 hours ago
The lockdowns had nothing to do with Rona. None of the measures taken were. And the public health crew absolutely knew and know this. They are culpable.
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1 rumble

adjustyoursettings, 23 hours ago
Maria, you are a fantastic interviewer. Keep up the good work!
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1 rumble

Jonathanwalter, 2 weeks ago
which of the telegram channels in his name and photo is genuine..so many adds for cures on the big ones is suspicious.
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1 rumble

Evasic, 2 weeks ago
No offense but Maria kind of looks like a reptilian when she stares at her screen, broadcast on 240p… And if you’re schizophrenic, no this message is not from the pleyedians or Jesus telling you that Maria is a counter-agent working for constellation Draco or working working Satan. (I wanted to be inclusive of both manic Christians and new agers in psychedelic induced psychosis)
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-6 rumbles

SouWester, 2 weeks ago
It’s the look of shock and horror when hearing about how horrific something through empathy knowing that these horrific things are happening to friends, loved ones and people of the world. It’s Normal for Sane people with empathy that have the ability to critical think to have a look of horror, worry, sad, distraught all rolled into one when hearing more confirmations of how bad a situation is , and can put the pieces together of how enormous the deaths/injuries have been, will be, and that it all could have been prevented.
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7 rumbles

 

 

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Dr. Camilla Moller: We have been really working hard on flattening the curve, that was really what we did for a long time. And with Omicron, we simply don’t need anymore to flatten the curve as much as we used to. And that’s the reason we can have these more open societies.

 

Freddie Sayers: Hello. And welcome to UnHerd, I’m Freddie Sayers.

 

So a couple of days ago, on the 26th of January, England dropped most of its Covid regulations! Facemasks are no longer legally mandated anywhere. Vaccine passports are not legally mandated anywhere – some people still use them. But they’re not legally required. And stay at home advice, i.e., the idea that you need to work from home not go into the office, has also been dropped by the government.

 

Well, we thought we were the most liberated country in Europe, but Denmark has just overtaken us! As of February the first, they will have no Covid regulations whatsoever!

 

Well, here to discuss this with us and explain why Denmark felt confident enough to make that decision is Camilla Holten Moller. Who is an infectious disease epidemiologist working at the state public health agency in Denmark.

 

She’s also the head of the Expert Group on Mathematical Modelling over there in Denmark, which is the group that produces the predictions that helps the government make their decisions as to what they should do next about Covid.

 

Camilla, welcome!

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Thank you.

 

Freddie Sayers: What is actually happening on February first? Is it true that there will be no Covid regulations whatsoever, over in Denmark?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, to a large degree, yes. That is. So so what they also decided in the government is that Covid should no longer be considered critical to public health. And that also means that the legislation is also changing. So many of these interventions can no longer be supported by legal legislation.

 

So many things will simply be ruled out. For instance, the Corona pass will go away, and also, these restrictions on closing down of nightlife and cultural institutions is also ending by the first of February.

 

Freddie Sayers: If you get Covid, and you take a test. What do you do on the second of February in Denmark?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, we still recommend people to stay in isolation, for a minimum of three days. But then we also look at whether you have symptoms. If you don’t have any symptoms, you can actually go back out of isolation after three days. If you continue to have symptoms, you should stay in isolation until you’re symptom free.

 

Freddie Sayers: And so I noticed the verb there was “recommend”. So it’s no longer a legal requirement. It’s just a suggestion?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: It’s a suggestion, yeah.

 

Freddie Sayers: And what’s interesting is that Denmark is doing this big step of dropping all of the regulations at the exact moment that case numbers are higher than they’ve ever been. In the last few days, you’ve had the highest case numbers that Denmark has ever recorded of Covid-19 in the history of this pandemic.

 

Tell us about that. Why do high case numbers not make the government panic about dropping the restrictions?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, of course, it’s caused by the Omicron variant that we also saw taking over in Denmark. It started early December. And then it actually totally replaced Delta within a month.

 

And what we also saw is now that we actually have a sub variant of the Omicron, called BA.2. Which also seems to be a little bit more infectious, but still have the same – it’s simply less severe also, compared to the first Omicron variant. And that is why we see these really high case numbers each day. But we don’t really see it in the severity, or in hospitals. So patients going to hospital – of course, a lot of people with Covid. But they’re not necessarily ill from their Covid..

 

So, it’s basically, because we have this Omicron variant that we now are confident that we can actually start opening up again.

 

Freddie Sayers: So is it fair to say that you’re no longer worried about case numbers, especially? You no longer think that’s a useful metric?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, more, or less. Of course, the case number still indicates also that you could have a wave also in hospitalizations. So what we’re especially concerned about is, of course, our risk groups – old people and people with comorbidities – that they could still have a smaller wave with Omicron as well. But we really do see very few people in intensive care unit. And those people going into hospital are there for shorter stay. So for now, it isn’t really worrying to that extent.

 

Freddie Sayers: And what you mentioned earlier, are you saying that some of those hospitalizations, or numbers that count as people with Covid in hospital, were just in hospital for something else?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Yes.

 

Freddie Sayers: And now they have you happen to have Covid, so you’re not worried about them for that reason?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, still, of course, you need to take precautions in hospitals, when you have all these people showing up at hospital and still need treatment, but also have a positive test.

 

So it’s not like, you can rule them out. You still need to take care of these patients in a certain manner. But it’s not in the same way that we saw with the Delta wave, where we actually saw people got really ill – even vaccinated patients could have severe illness – we don’t see that to the same degree with the Omicron. And that’s also the reason we have based these decisions upon.

 

[05:19]

 

Freddie Sayers: So this is a huge moment, isn’t it? Not only for Denmark. But in the way that we understand this pandemic that has dominated all of our lives for two years.

 

Historically, for months, and months, and months, it’s been when cases rise, we know that there’s going to be a delayed, but coming, effect on hospitalizations and ultimately deaths. And that’s why all of the modelling people, such as yourself, have had this huge power, because they’ve been predicting what that relationship will be. Are we to now conclude then that this is basically the end of this pandemic?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, we have been really working hard on flattening the curve, that was really what we did for a long time. And with Omicron, we simply don’t need anymore to flatten the curve as much as we used to. And that’s the reason we can have these more open societies.

 

I definitely believe that SARS-Cov-2 will continue circulating during the summer period as well. And we also expect that in winter, we will start to see case counts going up again, simply, because we have the waning immunity of the vaccine. So the population immunity will start decreasing. We are also considering, of course, that we could end up seeing new variants that will have a play.

 

But for now, I think with the Omicron, we’re in a good place. And we definitely think that after we have peaked, which we also consider that we will be peaking in a short time, we expect the springtime and summertime will be pretty quiet, I think.

 

Freddie Sayers: I mean, you talk about the potential for new variants. Something that’s been said a lot is that the normal progress of a virus like this is to become more transmissible, but milder, because ultimately, that’s good for the virus in some way. That seems to be what’s happened with Covid-19. Does that not mean though, that it’s less likely that suddenly the next variant will be much more severe?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: I don’t think we can say that. I think it’s too soon, really. And of course, what we observed with the Delta variant was that it was actually both more transmissible and more severe. And it’s really kind of a lottery with these mutations. So I don’t think we can say with any certainty that it will be a less severe variant the next time. At least, I’m not confident in that.

 

But of course, what we do see now is that the immunity, the population immunity, is really high right now, both from vaccines, and hybrid vaccine, and recovered infections. So we’re in a different place, I think, with the Omicron that actually boosted our immunity, population immunity. And that’s a good thing from my chair.

 

Freddie Sayers: Because this is another really important question that you’ve just come upon, which is this whole idea of natural immunity. Previously, that was very controversial, because it was considered dangerous to either allow people to be exposed, or deliberately encourage people to be exposed, because they could get very sick.

 

If Omicron is as mild as it appears to be, is there some argument for actually saying, it’s a good time to be exposed to Covid-19?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well. You can also always argue whether that’s a good idea, or not. You never can foresee who is actually ending up with severe illness. So it’s a bit of a chance, I would say to do that. I wouldn’t advise people to get exposed deliberately. I still think that it’s part of the reason that we are actually opening our society now and annulling all of these restrictions is that we can see that it probably will still have good protection from the vaccines and that we can see that people get less severe illness in case you get infected.

 

So we’re not that worried anymore of people getting infected. But I wouldn’t say it’s part of our strategy to have people infected.

 

Freddie Sayers: But, it’s okay to observe that immunity from infection is powerful, at least as powerful, can we say as immunity from vaccination? What’s your professional view on that?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: You need to discuss that with an expert in looking into immunity. I think you could say that you have some protection from the Omicron. But how does it protect against former variants and new variants? That is the question. Just as we know that the vaccines don’t actually cover all variants equally, well, we will probably see the same that different variants that we had during the past will also protect against new variants in different terms.

 

So one person that had the Delta variant might be more protected against an upcoming new variant than if you have had Omicron. We don’t know that, simply.

 

Freddie Sayers: If you compare some of the continental European countries with a country like the United Kingdom, the UK opened up earlier, back in July. And there was a higher level of infection. And some people observed that we were less badly hit in the winter than some of those European countries, and suggest that might be partly why. Do you think that’s a reasonable way to think?

 

[10:01]

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, I think it definitely is something you need to consider. Simply the state of the population, or the “population immunity”, as we call it. How well is it built up? And what does it mean for next waves? In Denmark, we saw that the immunity is primarily by vaccination. We actually have had very low prevalences in Denmark. We didn’t have that large wave. And probably that is also why the Omicron have an advantage right now is simply, because it’s an immune evasive variant.

 

So in other countries where you used to have high waves, or high peaks of other variants, you might do better, or see less Omicron, simply because it doesn’t have an advantage as it does in high vaccinated countries like Denmark.

 

So definitely there are something about the population immunity and to what extent there’s population immunity from vaccines and recovering waves.

 

Freddie Sayers: What’s going on in terms of Denmark versus Sweden? Because this is something we’ve paid quite a lot of attention to – I’m partly Swedish. Earlier on in the pandemic, Denmark was very stringent. They were one of the first countries to close their borders. Even, they closed the border with Sweden controversially, while Sweden had a much more liberal attitude. And now it seems to have swapped around to some extent. Sweden is now discovering lockdown style measures, although not a full lockdown, but limits on parties and curfews, and those kinds of things, whilst Denmark is opening up. Have they swapped? What’s going on there do you think?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well not deliberately, I think. But what we do see in Denmark is we try to do precision epidemiology, so to say. So we try to really have good information. We’ve been testing quite a lot during the epidemic, and doing a lot of sequencing and variant detection. And a lot more than Sweden have done. And it’s always difficult to compare countries. But I think in the current situation, we might just be a little bit ahead of Sweden simply, because we’re looking at it in a different manner, so to say. We have these detailed information on the BA.2 variant, which is difficult if you don’t have a large testing system, or variant detection.

 

Freddie Sayers: Do you think we’re able to say which country of those two had a better policy, looking back on the last year and a half?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: I think that’s really difficult to judge! And historically, we’ll have to sit down and take a look into how did we handle this differently. And what was actually working well, and worked less well, or where did we overdo something. So there will be definitely a need to evaluate the strategies that we chose and how it actually went on from that, and looking at mortality, etc.

 

Freddie Sayers: Very diplomatic answer, if I may. Say.

 

So so let’s talk about politics for one minute, because your country, as far as I understand, all of the political parties support this opening up. Is that true?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Yes, that’s correct. Which is an unrecognisable world from here in the UK, or I think the United States, or many, many countries where it’s become such a political argument. And if the government says one thing, the opposition says the opposite thing. How did it come about that everybody agrees now, even though these cases are going through the roof, that it’s time to call an end to restrictions? What’s different about Denmark?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, I think there’s first of all, high trust to health authorities, and also for the epidemic commission, who is actually advising the government, and advising our politicians in Denmark, has a high trust. I think that it’s the correct, so to say, that they trust that these are the correct solutions. And this was actually by the Epidemic Commission that proposed that these restrictions were lifted. And the whole government and all of the politicians actually agreed to that. So yeah, in general. I think it’s related to high trust in health authorities.

 

Freddie Sayers: Let’s talk about your specific work here. Because a big part of the evidence for the government being able to release those restrictions was your reporting – you’re in charge of the mathematical modelling group.

 

And just before Christmas, you produced a report that looked at what the effect of the Omicron wave might be over in Denmark. And I think it’s worth actually spending a little time on the specific conclusions you reached, because they’re quite different to what the modelling groups concluded here in the UK.

 

 

So I think we’ve got a chart that we can put up on the screen of your predictions versus what actually happened. So first, there’s the question of cases – how many cases there would be.

 

So talk us through what we’re looking at here?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Yeah, so just before Christmas, we did this model, where we try to look at Omicron and Delta and how would the case counts develop until March, if we projected the epidemic, so to say.

 

Here, the black dots are the case counts and the grey bars are the total case count here, projected total case counts. And then you see in orange, the Delta, actually being totally replaced.

 

The red dot is simply, because we didn’t have a full case count from that day. But what you see here is that we’re actually hitting the roof of our projections here, and quite within, so to say, the span of the projected case counts. So the predictions turned out to be pretty well.

 

But we also see that something was growing a bit more than we actually anticipated. And that’s because we had the BA.2 taking over in week two. So underneath. You also see sort of two strains growing at the same time.

 

[15:53]

 

Freddie Sayers: Let’s look at the next one, which is similar, but shows hospitalisation. So these are new people being put into hospital with Covid each day.

 

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Yes. So these new to hospital is similarly also, we projected that we would have a peak here in the beginning of February. Simply, because you have kind of a delay from the case count peaking until you see the peak in hospitalisations. So what we see here is also that we are well within the projected span.

 

Actually, now we do expect that the peak might be postponed a little bit, because of the BA.2 having a little bit more growth than the BA.1. So it might be actually that we expecting to peak a little bit later, and maybe a little bit higher. But but we’re well within the span.

 

Freddie Sayers: I mean, we are not used to seeing this kind of thing over here in the UK. This looks like a pretty accurate model. The dots are mainly within the cone! [chuckling] This is what should happen, right, with a mathematical model? Both of the things you’ve shown us where the actual data falls roughly in the range that you expected it to. So I’m guessing you’re feeling quite pleased with your modelling?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, yes, definitely. I think we have fulfilled our task, which is to inform our decision makers of what to expect what to come.

 

Freddie Sayers: So the million dollar question is, how could it be that prior to Christmas, and in the early part of January, you remained confident that there wouldn’t be a huge dangerous surge in hospitalisations and deaths, that required very draconian lockdowns, whilst other modelling groups, such as some of the groups here in the UK that were advising our government, came to a different conclusion? What’s your understanding of that difference?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: I should say that it is really a difficult task. But also early in December, we also had some models where we actually projected those higher peaks in hospitalisations, which was mainly owed to the many uncertainties of the Omicron. At first, we simply didn’t know how severe that variant could be. But as soon as we had new data, we have put that into our models and informed the models. And that’s why we came up with this model that you just saw showed on the screen.

 

So knowledge is key, and really to follow this really closely. And that is, yeah, coming back to the detailed data we have in Denmark, that’s really what we owe it to.

 

Freddie Sayers: So I’m going to put another chart on the screen, if I may, which is one of the most famous modelling groups here in the UK, which, … Well there were two, there was one from Warwick University, one from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. They both came up with similar kind of conclusions. But I think this is the Warwick chart we have. And you’ll be able to see the difference between what was projected and what has actually happened.

 

 

So, [chuckling] it’s kind of a different story. This was, and I should say, this is actually with a severity of 50% of Delta. They also produced one with 100% of Delta, which was even more extreme.

 

And what’s happened in reality is just so far beneath what they were expecting. Do you have any insight into the technicality of that?

 

 

Because I looked in detail at your report here, which is your model. And. It seems to me that you were also factoring 50% of severity of Delta as the sort of mid-case scenario, which was the same as those UK groups. So, how could it be that your results were so different?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: It actually depends on what type of model you have here. And I don’t know the details of the Warwick model, but the type of model, whether it’s a population model, or an agent based model, but also the detail of the information that you put in.

 

We also have big issues related to the vaccine effectiveness for the Omicron, and also transmissibility when you are infected. Those are other parameters that are equally important to have a correct model estimate. And what we did in our model was simply to sample within a span saying that this is what we’re looking at that could be most feasible for the Omicron variant. So some of these – looking at these projections, what we know today is that it’s probably even less than 50%, maybe it’s 20% less severe the Omicron variant. But it could be some of the other parameters that you use in a model that are simply not correct, or didn’t get spot on.

 

[20:28]

 

Freddie Sayers: Do you think it’s fair to be worried that there is a kind of bias towards negativity in making these models?

 

For example, if we take this question of severity, in those days before Christmas, there was a lot of discussion of how confident we could be that Omicron was less severe than Delta. And to most common sense observers, the real world data we got from South Africa, made that pretty clear! Because had it been as severe as Delta, they would be having overflowing hospitals, and they weren’t.

 

And yet, there were these incredibly sophisticated reasons given why we couldn’t be certain, that it could still technically just be to do with differences in age profile, or prior immunity, or whatever, from South Africa.

 

So that data set was kind of ignored. And Professor Neil Ferguson produced a report at Imperial, on the 17th of December, I think, the same day that your model came out, saying that there is no evidence, no firm evidence, that Omicron is less severe than Delta.

 

And so that was the presumption that went into advising the government. And I suppose similar things with those other variables you talk about, with vaccine effectiveness. And those kinds of things.

 

Do you feel like it’s possible that in Denmark, when you’re doing these models, you’re looking at a kind of central scenario and just trying to estimate, whilst in some other countries, perhaps including England, we are training our modellers to be erring on the side of caution?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, of course, that’s a difficult question to answer. I would say that we also did this, the same approach, simply modelling different scenarios, also the severe scenario and the less severe scenario. So that would be a typical model approach, that you need to actually showcase your uncertainties. Because that’s truly, really important to the decision makers, that it could be A, but it could also B.

 

And then of course, you need to narrow in as soon as you have the information, you would need to reproduce your models and see now that we’re more certain. We can see that it’s actually going this direction.

 

So in the beginning, when we did our models, we also had a lot of uncertainty on the estimates. And we had been trying to narrow it down as fast as we could with the information we thought we had.

 

Freddie Sayers: So you haven’t been looking at other countries’ models and analysing why they were so different? You don’t have a theory as to what variable it was they chose wrong?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: No, not exactly. I can’t pinpoint that. And it is really a lot of work to get into other models. It’s not just a quick look you can do that. You’d really need to spend some time and understand the parameters you had chosen to put in your models to say why they’re so different.

 

What you also see sometimes is that you use a panel of models to inform your decision makers, because it can be quite different from the choice of model that you have, and the details in the model you have.

 

Freddie Sayers: One more question on this, because I’ve done some back of the envelope calculations here. Actually, if your numbers – Denmark is a population of 5.8 million – you were forecasting 25,000 to 55,000, roughly, cases as a peak. And 150 to 360 hospitalisations per day, as a peak. And as we’ve just seen roughly that is what happened.

 

 

England is almost exactly 10 times the size of Denmark, 56 million, as opposed to 5.8 million. And had our modellers been like you and forecasts 250 to 550 cases a day, and 1,500 to 3,000 hospitalizations a day, they would also have been roughly correct. We had slightly under that, our peak it looks like was 205,000 cases and hospitalizations, 2,300. So your model times 10, was a pretty good forecast of what happened in England!

 

What we got from Sage, the government committee, was actually 600,000 to two million cases a day, as the maximum. And 3,000 to 10,000 hospitalizations a day, which is five times plus what actually happened.

 

I know that you can’t be responsible for anyone else’s modelling. But I just want to ask one more time. Can you understand how groups in other universities came up with such wildly different numbers? And it leads people to feel conspiratorial, feel distrusting of the whole process of mathematical modelling, that different groups of experts can come up with such divergent things! What should we think about that difference, to try and understand it?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: I know that uncertainty and insecurity intervals that you have in these models, they’re really a difficult thing to communicate. We also had some issues to even communicate the span in our models. Because that’s also equally a wide span. And it is actually quite difficult to communicate, because when you do handle an epidemic, you want to be quite certain. And you can’t always have these certainties in models.

 

So basically, it comes back to what can you use a model for? And how do you interpret these uncertainties, into how to handle the epidemic? So there can be a number of reasons why they actually projected this, and why the span was so large. I think we saw it in other models trying to estimate, or project the Omicron wave, we also saw it in some of the Norwegian models that also had a quite a large span. And as I just said before, we also saw that in the Danish models in the beginning, where we have a lot of uncertainties.

 

But it is really a continuous work to inform your models and try to understand what is going on exactly in your country.

 

For instance, in our models, we have put in some assumptions about people also changing their behaviour underneath. So when cases go up, you actually see a population behaviour change. And that has been one of the key figures in our model, that we actually can see that people change behaviour, whenever cases go up. So that’s actually putting a lid on the top of our model, so to say.

 

Freddie Sayers: That’s very interesting. Because that’s explicitly something that the models that fed into the British government were not asked to consider.

 

So I’ve read within the Warwick model, for example, they say it is beyond the scope of this model to estimate endogenous, or natural behaviour changes that aren’t mandated. That’s a pretty significant difference! It could explain most of the difference even, couldn’t it?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, at least we saw, it was really important in Denmark. And we have been working quite a lot with our models for the last two years, and seeing that it was really an important thing to put in the model, these behaviour changes.

 

The other thing is about susceptible depletion, simply having no people anymore being susceptible of being infected. So you can have small groups, for instance, age groups, or specific geographical areas, where you start to see that there’s simply no longer any people susceptible to the infection. And then it starts to burn out more, or less. And that is also related to how you build up your model, if you actually can detect these susceptible depletions.

 

So there can be some small details in each model that actually defines whether you have these peak shaving, as we call it.

 

Freddie Sayers: Because that, what you’ve just mentioned, is another thing that has been so talked about, and so important in the last two years. Which is when a new wave is just getting going and everyone is talking about the doubling rate, it’s going to double every two days, or double every one day, or three days. And everyone then just extrapolates that for as long as they need until it gets into the millions. And everyone gets very frightened.

 

And then what seems to happen in the real world is that pace of exponential growth doesn’t last. And we get to a slowing down for other reasons, that are not to do with government intervention. Is that fair? Do you observe that, is that what you mean by this susceptible depletion?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: It’s more, or less, what I mean. Well, the susceptible depletion is, for instance, if you had a really high peak in schoolchildren, at some point, you wouldn’t have any more pupils that you could have infected, simply because the reproduction number in that specific group would be below one. So there wouldn’t be enough people to infect to actually keep it going in that group.

 

And that means that you would take out some of the growth of the epidemic. That’s what we call “susceptible depletion”. And you can have that in the whole population. You can also have it in areas, or small pockets of your population.

 

And the other thing is that behavioural changes. And that’s sort of a different matter. That is more so whenever you see, for instance, in Denmark, we had the municipalities sending links out on Facebook, or in your social media feeds. So now, case counts are really high in your area, it could be in your Parish, or in your municipality. And we would need to do something if case counts don’t go down.

 

So people would try to actually go and have a test, or they would actually annul a party, cancel a party, or do something differently than what they had actually planned. That we actually saw, that people try to change their behaviour simply to have the case count going down in that area.

 

Freddie Sayers: In other words, it doesn’t need to be a law.

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: No.

 

Freddie Sayers: People actually have common sense. And they have a brain. And they can observe what’s happening and adjust their behaviour anyway.

 

[29:58]

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, they do to some extent. And, of course, that also has a limitation. I mean, to some extent, you don’t really regulate yourself that much. You still need to go to work, you still need to send your children to school. So it also has a limitation of course. But we did see that it is a factor that actually plays a role.

 

And that is also to a high degree what you saw in Sweden. So even though we didn’t have the government mandating lockdowns, you actually saw that people would actually change the behaviour accordingly. So when you do try to measure the restriction level, it was kind of similar actually in Sweden, because people simply self regulated their behaviour.

 

Freddie Sayers: Are you worried about the role that your discipline and expertise has had in this pandemic? It’s become very controversial. At least here in the UK. Lots of people are happy to bash the modellers, because they always seem to be getting everything wrong. And there’s this presumption that they are fear mongers, or they’re trying to always look to the worst case scenario. How does your discipline emerge from this period, do you think? Is it’s reputation damaged?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: I know that there has been quite an, so to say, an issue that you really need to communicate these spans and uncertainties. But I still think that mathematical modelling has a place in how we inform our decision makers to know what’s lying ahead.

 

Freddie Sayers: When you’re building that model, when you’re instructing your team, and you’re sitting there, and there’s big pressure because the health of the nation depends on it. Do you feel pressure to err on the side of caution, ever? When you’re choosing what presumptions to make, or what inputs to put, or ranges, do you feel the sense that it might be safer to presume the worst? Or have you never felt that?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: No. [chuckling] We don’t do it like that! It’s really a large team and we try to use all our best knowledge in epidemiology, our best knowledge of vaccine effectiveness, all the estimates that we need to put in the model, we always strive to be updated, and to have the newest figures and newest information to inform our models.

 

So it is really a huge job to update these models and make sure that we understand what is going on in the model and that we can actually have the correct parameters in it.

 

And that is a quite a big task to keep up to speed all the time. And especially when you change variants all the time. And you don’t have that information, you need to choose really carefully, …

 

Freddie Sayers: So you block out any sense of whether it might be politically more welcome to veer one way, or the other. And you just try to make the best estimate?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Yeah. So in Denmark, we are a small country. So we don’t have that many model groups as you do in UK. But it is actually a combination of experts from different universities that are sitting together and doing these models. And it’s completely an external expert group. We only have a few modellers that are actually situated in the Statens Serum Institut. So they are detached from the political situation.

 

So they sit and simply do these models the same as you do in UK, basically. But they’re not really affected by the political level. So we always strive to use the information we have in hand.

 

Freddie Sayers: Camilla, what do we need to persuade you to come over here to the UK? Because there may be some vacancies in the modelling community coming up, I believe?

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: Well, [chuckling] I think the modelling community need to get together and look into each other’s successes and failures. We also have failures. I guess we can share the knowledge and build a stronger model community, ahead.

 

Freddie Sayers: Dr. Camilla Holten Moller, thank you so much for talking to us.

 

Dr. Camilla Moller: You’re welcome.

 

Freddie Sayers: That was Dr. Camilla Holten Moller from the Danish Public Health Institute. She is in charge of the mathematical modelling for Covid over in Denmark.

 

And it is on her advice that the Danish government has decided to do a bonfire of the Covid restrictions and reopen society from the first of February!

 

Interesting there to meet one of these modellers. There’s a lot of talk about how flawed, or complex mathematical models related to Covid have been. She seems like a very common sense and intelligent person. And sometimes I was wishing that maybe she would come over here to the UK and replace some of the Sage modellers that have made our lives so complicated for the past year and a half.

 

Thank you to her, and thanks for tuning in! This was UnHerd.

 

[34:46]

 

 

END

 

 

[Readers: If you see any errors (however minor), or ways to improve things, in the transcript, please let me know in the Comment section.

Also please share the link to this transcript, so others can benefit. Thanks.]

 

 

============================================

 

YouTube Comments

 

2,188 Comments

Pinned by UnHerd
UnHerd
3 days ago
Has Denmark made the right call by dumping all its covid restrictions?
If you found this video interesting, please do suggest other topics we should investigate in the comments below and don’t forget to subscribe, like and share this video – it helps other people find it!
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381

Hide 121 replies
Raireva
3 days ago
Compare other coronaviruses dynamics in relationship to CoV2…also the corresponding fluctuation of immunity over the seasons
8

Gary RunForSteFun
3 days ago
Yes
16

David Tomkinson
3 days ago
Indeed!
12

Tan Tan
3 days ago
Yes
10

chechay nidup
3 days ago
out of topic- has anyone ever told you that you look/handsome version of Prince William?
8

WitSystem
3 days ago
Absolutely- now we must deal with the far greater burgeoning problem of a myocarditis, cancer and blood clot epidemic.
48

CARPO719
3 days ago
Yes they have absolutely done the right thing, knowing that Omicron is dominant, the vaccines don’t completely block it, and how contagious it is we will all get it. time to get back to our lives
22

Red Baron
3 days ago (edited)
Unfortunately my comments are getting erased. Don‘t know why though because I have made a topic suggestion which is about Technocracy and Techno Feudalism (as coined by Yanis Varoufakis). Not sure what is triggering youtube but this kind of algorithm censorship is also a good topic.
22

apan gurra
3 days ago
Yes! Well done!
7

Madelaine Morch
3 days ago
There is severe illness from the vaccine as well!
Denmark has a very high level of vaccinated, the ever highest level of cases and the excess mortality significant highest in 2021.
Natural immunity is the key to stop this circus in my opinion and I don’t understand why Denmark chose the risk to vaccinate the children.
I am though very happy that they choose to stop all covid laws because many countries still have Denmark as role model and hopefully this will make the example trustful to copy the sooner the better!
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42

Megan McConaghy
3 days ago
Yes absolutely I believe they have made the right call! Now lets focus on strengthening people’s physical and mental health with encouraging healthy foods, exercise, and most importantly, allowing personal freedom and choice
23

Deborah Hebblethwaite
3 days ago
Yes. Canada should follow suit
22

Marleen Codougan
3 days ago
Yes, it has made the right choices.
11

Luann Rouff
3 days ago
Of course. The plandemic would have been over a long time ago had it been able to move through the population. That’s what the immune system is for. If it isn’t up to the task, then fix that. Don’t expect any government agency to protect you. They’re all compromised, with a revolving door to industry.
22

Christian e.g.
3 days ago
YES!!! Denkark is leading the way out of this manmade debacle! But dropping all the draconian measures is not enough! Those responsible for perpetrating this whole scam upon the world need to be held accountable in a Nuremberg 2.0 trial! Starting with Klaus Schwab, Bill Gates and the virus’ creator Anthony Fauci! And we need to revisit the publicly hang the perpetrators just as we hung their predecessors in the first Nuremberg trial
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23

H H
3 days ago
Denmark has made the right call. The government is deadlier than ANY virus
12

Bea Klu
3 days ago
What next? „You own nothing and you Happy”.
5

Bea Klu
3 days ago
WHO New Constitution coming new rules for all countries, more control over health.
3

Christian e.g.
3 days ago
@Bea Klu there are more of us than there are of klaus schwab’s minions. If his impish minions start returning to him with their property-confiscation orders stuffed sideways up their anal cavities, klaus schwab might think twice about confiscating the world’s personal property
7

KLRJUNE
3 days ago
I’ve often heard Denmark is the most medicated country in the world (antidepressants). I have no idea if it is true but someone started saying that for a reason.
1

N Sudatta-Roy
3 days ago
@CARPO719 Vacks are completely ineffective against omicron. It would be interesting to learn what the percent of difference between this and delta.
4

Corina
3 days ago
Your interviews are always brilliant Freddy. Thank you. I’m interested to know when I can visit family in the USA without proof of vaccine.
10

Chee Yong Pek
3 days ago
how about a topic on what could be done to facilitate the change that we hope to see? perhaps to fight the misinformation put out in the MSM.
6

Drew Dam
3 days ago
Yes.
1

Karen Barry
3 days ago
As Jonny cash says. You have to know when to fold them know when to hold them know when to walk away know when to run !
It’s time to run again and get back to our lives and change our horrible policies n stop polluting our world with filthy masks n over use of testing kits !
10

Gypsy Anna
3 days ago
@Karen Barry LOL! Hahaha. You meant Kenny Rogers. That was not a song by Johnny Cash.
7

donepearce
3 days ago
Yes, this is the correct response. Vaccination has done its job keeping people alive during the early, intense form of the disease. Now Covid is dropping into the background as just another virus we have to live with – it is not going away. Of course, if in the future a more virulent strain emerges, restrictions can always be re-applied.
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4

ann harding
3 days ago
This is correct information. One has to work hard to find it!! That is corruption.
2

Toto
3 days ago
We have enough data to conclude mRNA technology is not viable. Keep on financing it and more importantly keeping alive the very heavy logistics chain it requires makes no sense at all. Some countries like France and the US or Canada because they have woke government still hope (or pretend to hope) the HIV vaccine will be here in 2023 (Moderna said so) and they want to keep on pouring money in the logistics chain. But it makes no economical sense
Read more
3

donepearce
3 days ago
@Toto Restrictions have certainly had an effect. With isolation and masks I have not had a single illness – even a cold – for two years. I quite like that, and I intend to continue wearing a mask in enclosed public spaces. I don’t need instructions from a government to make sensible decisions.
3

James Smith
3 days ago
Stop chasing echo chambers! There are plenty of unheard people who disagree with your core audience. Try challenging yourself and them. The closest you got to that recently was the Israeli doctor. How about engaging with someone with an opinion on China different to the Global North like Daniel Dumbrill or Carl Zha or countless others? Otherwise, you’re just another edgy YouTube channel inviting the same traveling circus that all the other edgy channels do.
Show less
1

Drew Dam
3 days ago
Excellent review, thank you and thank you Camilla.
2

Drew Dam
3 days ago
@Karen Barry yes, exactly. I like your quotes, too. Have you, by chance, read the disclaimers on the packaging for the ‘masks’, where it says that the masks allow particles to pass through the things!
2

Drew Dam
3 days ago (edited)
@donepearce 17,371 is the number of deaths in the UK from Covid-19 since the ‘pandemic’ began. And, you ‘believe’ that the vaccines have saved a lot of lives? If you would like to have the source for this information, please ask…
4

donepearce
3 days ago
@Drew Dam I understand neither your “data” nor your point

Drew Dam
3 days ago
Yes, I do have a very specific topic, current and very much in vogue, that I would like to pass onto you via a secure link. It is more than controversial so how can we communicate?
1

Revolution Underground
3 days ago
All covid restrictions are out of date anyway
2

donepearce
3 days ago
@Drew Dam I’m really not interested. But thank you

BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
Look into the killing off the worlds best mink production – illegally – costing every dane ca 500 dollars + los of export and taxes for years – maybe for ever.. And Mette Frederiksen’s lies and deleting sms’s “so” the Mink comission can’t read her comunication in the days, where they were deciding to do it.. And the cops calling the mink owners and pushing them haard to kill their mink, before it had been legaized..
Read more
3

BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
@Red Baron Happens for me too – vree speeech my ace..

Drew Dam
3 days ago
@Revolution Underground Quite so, from day one! Sadly, it didn’t stop the economies of the world from crashing with overspending on needless pharmaceutical resources. Those over-educated, over-paid doctors struck yet again…
3

Drew Dam
3 days ago
@BØRGE ODK With the current bout of disinformation regarding Earth ‘changes’, there is going to be a great deal more culls of worthwhile livestock, and minks are truly undervalued considering the coming ‘changes’…
2

Drew Dam
3 days ago
@donepearce if you are so disinterested, why did you bother to comment? Fear of the truth has shyed you away…
1

Toto
3 days ago
@donepearce as a result your immune system is probably weaker. Your choice.
5

donepearce
3 days ago
@Drew Dam I comment on what I want, and I need no gratuitous judgement from you. Kindly fuck off. Oh, and look up the meaning of disinterested; you got the wrong word.

A#123
3 days ago
Heard that the government are quietly planning on changing the human rights policy?? Good you look into that?

BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
@Drew Dam Unless enough stop going full Stockholm syndrome”..

Drew Dam
3 days ago
@A#123 Oh, yes. No human rights is on the way. Earth’s catastrophe cycle in an over populated world, with no food, means hard times ahead. Who needs human rights, thinks the Governments of the world?
1

Madasin Paine
3 days ago
@Red Baron avoid urls except for YouTube’s.
Cite references the old fashioned way, but even then, on channels under duress by the censoring algorithm and turned up higher, even citing names of other media, like one of the big three US newspapers can get automatic or instant deletion of the comment.
Apparently typing out too many trigger words or phrases amy get instant deletion.
Try breaking up your comment and avoid trending vocabulary, especially proper nouns and meme words, particularly if any of this makes the US Chamber of Commerce or Gov or oligarchs look bad or phrasing qualifies the overly vague broad seemingly arbitrary and capricious Y T violation rules or more accurately highly tilted “guidelines”.
But what do I know‽
Read more
3

Drew Dam
3 days ago (edited)
@A#123 I apologise, very few people have awareness of the Earth’s catastrophe cycle so it is a little unfair of me to spring it on an unsuspecting person. It is the sort of subject, along with pre-deluvian civilisations, that should have been taught to us when we were children at school. Instead, academia prefered that we remain dumb, so they could earn money by selling us false details in their ‘history’ books and they decided to conceal our real history. If you require more information, please ask…
Read more

Madasin Paine
3 days ago
@Christian e.g.
Pop quiz. If typically a viral pandemic pitters out within 3 years, we should see what’s happening in Denmark London or South Africa or most elsewhere, regardless if the overbearing science lacking protocols of the wealthy West were employed or not.
Billions of humans will not be “fully vaccinated” and yet cases per hundred thousand are amongst the highest in places like Denmark London or many other extremely wealthy metropolitan corridors of the heavily inoculated Ivy like league anchored cities in blue states.
Let’s see which major or popular media or social media channel is the first to repeatedly hammer that answer home breathlessly over and over day after day, first thing out of their mouth
Don’t hold your breath.
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Madasin Paine
3 days ago (edited)
@KLRJUNE
About 9 million relatively speaking extremely well cared for people on a big sparsely populated isolated northern country, island qualities, nit entirely mind you, and they are well educated, have excellent services, tech penetration, communication, relatively homogeneous, and most importantly they have more control over and faith in their government.
If you want to die with CV, be very old, obese, have syndrome X, live in the southern US, be poor, in a crowded poor community, and or live as such in NYC estranged and isolated from “loved ones” and get forced into a nursing home full of similarly vulnerable victims.
Now compare that to how children old folks and fools are handled in Denmark.
Something is rotten in the U$.
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Edgar Karam
3 days ago
I have a question in regards to comparing the severity of covid variants. The question, which I feel should be obvious, is “how can anyone seriously compare effects of variants on a shifting population sample?”. I believe that the hyper vulnerable percentage of the population have been significantly reduced by previous variants. We are now looking at a different population sample and comparing the effects of new variants unfairly.
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Russell Brown
3 days ago
Sweden had it correctly judged and so did the the good doctor that was lampooned very early into the plandemic whose message about virology and immunology has been proven to be correct all along (I’m sure I would butcher the good doctor’s name). The “narrative” had people to ignore him because his expertise was in veterinary medicine. What about the US Naval vessel whose crew was 100% vaccinated, yet suffered a COVID outbreak. There are many other examples of this and contradicts what Dr. Holten-Moller claims about Denmark’s vaccine effectiveness. “Our response to the virus has caused more death and misery than the virus” – Jordan Petersen. “The Omicron variant is the vaccine we never made” – Dr. Machacha, Ugandan doctor.
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Shakti Kumar Kurup
3 days ago
Investigate Canadian Freedom Convoy and their MSM media. There are lots of misinformation coming out of there
1

Drew Dam
3 days ago
@Edgar Karam If only the Governments of the day thought as sinscintly as you do, then the whole pharmaceutical mess that they have created may have been a lot less complex. Only 17,371 deaths occured in the UK as a direct result of Corvid-19 (source provided upon request), not exactly close to the 137,133 number quoted by the NHS. The real ‘problem’ is elsewhere, but I like the construction of you query.
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BG
3 days ago
Document everything you get… And make the ultimate truth documentary so the responsibles are truly held responsible for this nightmare of humanity. The periode we are living in is a disgrace for humanity.
1

Doctors’ Bury Their Mistakes
3 days ago
Freddie what a great interview mate, such a big eye-opener. Sadly from the very beginning Australia clumsily got all the Covid 19 modelling wrong, so called “experts” with big egos, seem to be agenda driven by control freak, dictatorial politicians. Their police attacking good people, knocking them to the ground, putting them in gaol with massive $$$fines. Police barging into homes, loud police helicopters hovering around 24/7 like a war zone, politicians encouraging violence against the citizens. Australian universities have become corrupt, pay to play universities for millions of questionable? Chinese and Indian students, they all pass regardless and get citizenship?? Fair dinkum Aussies should be sending their children to a University in Denmark, the universities in Australia are bad, the degrees are worthless, almost a joke.
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Madasin Paine
3 days ago
@Doctors’ Bury Their Mistakes
It must be a tremendous wake up call and a demoralizing engaging one at that, especially those that initially were gung ho law and order oriented.
Do you feel like you have a lot of company amongst peers or on the “fringe”.
Its very troubling to me to take in your countries increasingly dire authoritarian turns of event. But I believe the roots and seeds are not so new foe this happening.
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Shan Rafnezden
3 days ago
YES!!!

Madasin Paine
3 days ago
Hold the course and stay on it. People will be astounded when they find decent work in the media to view. They’ll always be critics who take pop shots mostly through logical fallacies and ad hominem attacks —don’t let them get you down because you’ll never please everybody.
Be patient but persistent and not too greedy and your audience will eventually find you.
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Kylie Jones
3 days ago
Yes!!
Great interview.

Kylie Jones
3 days ago
@Owlish Art ok, whatever.

American Exile
3 days ago
Yes. The right call.

Corrina
3 days ago
@chechay nidup I’d save he looks related to Henry Cavill :]
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Corrina
3 days ago
Yes, Cyprus needs to do the same – they rely heavily on tourism, and nobody will want to go on holiday to a place with unnecessarily strict measures !

chechay nidup
3 days ago
@Corrina Ah..Yes, I see the resemblence:)

so dumb that i think for myself
2 days ago
this pandemic has been nothing but political one, this was clear after about 3 months had passed, n first lockdowns obviously made no much difference to “cases” yet affected esp young ppl’s mental health a lot, started to kill businesses, jobs etc. but i assume that restrictions will come back, either soon with next “variant” or with next “pandemic”. the pushers of this bs won’t give up so easily, esp now that moderna got fully authorized.
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Simon Brownbridge
2 days ago
@Madasin Paine Now you are getting closer to the truth of how ill health and sickness works. Additionally, where have the lockdowns created the most social pain? In poor confined lower class communities, more vulnerable to overcrowding, social and family difficulties, less access to services….and certainly not able to have organic food box deliveries, access to exercise, spending freely on Amazon , working from home and so on.
I am disgusted by the smugness and self righteousness of the wealthier members of my community who are vaxxed up to the eyeballs and shuffling around in muzzles. Their concern is only to self safety. They should coughup a tithe to help those who have suffered loss these past 2 years, starting with the po.itical and public servant classes.
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1

nadogrl
2 days ago
Absolutely!

John Buchman
2 days ago
@WitSystem Also autoimmune and neurological disorders as well as strokes…
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John Buchman
2 days ago
@Christian e.g. I completely agree!
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John Buchman
2 days ago
@Bea Klu That will be the circumstances of those found guilty of Crimes Against Humanity in the upcoming Nuremberg Code of 1947 trials.

John Buchman
2 days ago
@donepearce The early treatments which were suppressed by the governments and big pharma (e.g., FLCCC) always were more effective and safer than the Experimental Gene Therapy shots!
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donepearce
2 days ago
@John Buchman will every conspiracy theorist just leave me alone? I have no interest in your paranoia

Barbara Osimani
2 days ago
Could you please post the link to the study? I searched around in the SSI website, but I am not sure about which is exaxtly the one that Dr. Holten-Møller is talking about. I would need this for a Letter we are writing to the Italian Ministry of Research and other policy makers in Italy.

Rich Thompson
2 days ago
I would love to hear an unbiased investigation into the Canadian truckers story. There appears to be a media push to smear the protestors as simultaneously swastika bearing, while also opposing what they perceive to be fascist policies, which is a bizarre angle and like Christians protesting against Christmas!! Whether mandatory vaccination is justifiable for Omicron is clearly a perfectly reasonable debate to be had. The fact that many journalists are keen to just focus their reporting on a handful of bad actors in this protest and not state the views
of the peaceful majority in good faith, is a concerning trend that has been seen in Europe and Australia too. Clearly, the situation is not akin to the worse moments of authoritarianism but the passive normalization of state coercion, scapegoating, segregation, surveillance and suppression are not things that those educated and believe in liberal democracy should blindly ignore.
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donepearce
2 days ago
@Rich Thompson An unbiased investigation? How would that work. Everybody has an opinion. The moment you decide to talk to this person before that person you have thrown in a bias. The cameraman who chooses exactly where to point his camera has already edited the picture in line with his views
. Bias is unavoidable.
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Rich Thompson
2 days ago
@donepearce I completely agree that an element of bias is unavoidable and we are all human. I do trust good journalists like Freddie to ask the right questions and represent the key issues in a more balanced and nuanced manner than others. That is why we love Unherd, we are tired of biased soundbites, we like people who take the care to delve into an issue responsibly, so we can make an informed opinion.
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P Mustart
2 days ago
Thank you for this brilliant discussion by both interviewer and interviewee.
As a south African I am aghast that the UK and some other countries did not take seriously the early evidence of low omicron severity that we shouted out to the rest of the world
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donepearce
2 days ago
@Rich Thompson When I see someone describe a journalist as unbiased I translate that internally as meaning they broadly agree with that person’s viewpoint, but are not too blatant about it.

Rich Thompson
2 days ago
@donepearce I see where you are coming from. I do value the Unherd style of long form good faith journalism with some tough questioning too. I feel this a better method to get to the facts and make an informed opinion vs the sensationalist opinionated journalism that likes to polarize with one side of the story for clicks and comments. We are all prone to biases of course but I try to hear from a variety of sources to escape the echo chamber, as much as possible.
I have repeatedly heard these type of protests are full of far right hooligans. Out of curiosity, I attended one last year and found it to be full of peaceful, educated, concerned citizens with reasonable questions about Gov over reach. Some of whom were former political prisoners, who warned of the dangers of segregation, censorship and divided societies we have seen during this pandemic and cautioned these were fertile ground for the further centralization of power, Are they hyper sensitive in these concerns because of their trauma or are they greater attuned to early warning signs having lived through it? It’s an important conversation we should have.
I saw a picture of one of the truckers, who lived under Ceausescu and drew parralels with Trudeau. I find it interesting why he thinks that. Is he crazy and being dramatic or is he seeing something that those who have not had that experience do not?
Whenever those with different views
are painted as pariahs, I want to know whether that is really an accurate portrayal or just political smears. After all, they are just advocating for policies similar to those that the UK and Denmark have. I trust Freddie to do a good interview here.
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Rich Thompson
2 days ago
@P Mustart Well said!

RememberAllah
2 days ago
Idk bro, but I have the omicron right now and I’m very sick! The pain in my upper back is extreme too. Not mild in my case….

Amanda Thurston
2 days ago
We should of done it last week!

Amanda Thurston
2 days ago
@KLRJUNE lol, probably from the studies that say Danes are the happiest country of people ,and someone twisted it and said it’s because of drugs, my husband NEEDS some chill pills but his doctor won’t write for them.

Amanda Thurston
2 days ago
@BØRGE ODK I SECOND THAT, the handling, and bullying was a Total disgrace ! And the zombie returning to the surface, what an amateur move! It’s really tainted my belief that the gov is capable of handling the most basic simple tasks, even I could of told them burying a billion bodies in a shallow grave, near water would make it toxic and end very badly. A little common since, Incinerate on site, would of solved the slu of horror stories before it began, We wouldn’t of had mink on playgrounds, we wouldn’t have had truckloads of mink stolen for example, I do believe it was a disgusting political stunt to handle it so badly, so the industry could never recover, handling it all to China on a silver platter, because EVERYONE knows that the animals have rights there (insert major sarcasm)
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Amanda Thurston
2 days ago
@Drew Dam Denmark had 60% on the industry, and guess who had 40% ? CHI-ñAh guess who has a monopoly now?

René Borg
2 days ago
yes. given all the assumptions underlying the current ‘health crisis’ are demonstrable false and there is no clear justification for any measures, they should never have been employed in the first place
2

Joe
2 days ago
That’s a resounding yes from me.

Jens Angelsgaard
2 days ago
Camilla is a paid government talking head. Pure Puke!
1

GC
2 days ago
Are those responsible for the pandemic ever going to be exposed ?
Are they releasing new variants…e.g. ” NeoCoV ” ??
1

tfbbm
2 days ago
yes.
suggestion: how the “pandemic” coincided with when the aerodynamically shaped 2 dimensional printed metal aerosol fumigation making sea-ground level 2020. Everywhere on Earth at this time is breathing the contents of the insides of a hologram screen.
“H.A.A.R.P.” is a big part of it. The jets spraying the fumigation and the trails of are getting edited out of the open air sky. It has already begun.
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Elaine Steers
2 days ago
Yes

vadane vadas
2 days ago
Still, a lot of deliberate damage has been done to the society! We can’t forget about it. If we do, we’ll have similar story gain in the future.
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P.A. Arsenault
2 days ago
You need to change the focus of the conversation. I am worried these vaccine mandating governments are going to call victory for their strategies and they will never admit Ivermectin strategy in India was more succesful.
1

Richard Smith
2 days ago
If I was a young grad student and I wanted to study epidemiological modelling I would certainly rather study with this lady and learn how do to create proper models rather than learn from either Ferguson or Medley!

Cinderella De Vil
2 days ago
@donepearce that is not a sensible decision. We as a species got to this point by exercising our immunity. A cold will not kill you. It will keep your natural immunity fit, and will keep it from turning against yourself.
Much of the autoimmune diseases which are on the increase in the west is the result of too much hygene.
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Cinderella De Vil
2 days ago
@Drew Dam I am a doctor, and I am opposed to mass vaccination. I believe the West has gone mad. This is a narcissistic madness. Only people at risk should be vaccinated. And we should spend the savings from fewer jabs in tailoring individual immunization for the vulnerable.
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tattooair inc
2 days ago
Probably because someone in the Danish government has finally watched a recording of NBC Nightly News on January 24, 2021. Then they finally understood the reality. https://youtu.be/BTQAAZ-7OqQ

LadyWatchingBird
2 days ago
Yes they have.

Jenn Roberts
2 days ago
@Christian e.g. there would be back to back hangings. So many perpetrators….. worldwide
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Jenny Eyles
2 days ago
Gain of Function Experiments:- Whether the Sars-Cov2 virus escaped from a high security bio lab or not, why is there no public discussion on banning the Gain of Function experiments?
The GoF lab leaks are clearly very dangerous, but no one mentions it.
Are we all self censoring on that topic?
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Jan van der Zanden
2 days ago
@Madelaine Morch Yes, that’s the only point in Camilla’s exposé that is imo fundamentally wrong. But: that’s not her discipline/expert area.

tattooair inc
2 days ago
@Jenny Eyles https://youtu.be/ihjNDf32_Ac

Veda Vyasa
1 day ago
sorry, Danmark is not the first. Bosnia and Herzegovina was the first country free from V-pass and mandatory vaccination, because of lawyer Mirnes Ajanovic, who successfuly protected human rights on the basis of the the constitutional law. Please Ask him how he managed this 2 month ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVWIDJM4u4I&t=3437s Here is also italian interview with him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za6Nu18qO3o&t=2825s
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La Mel
1 day ago
Please, interview Dr. Tess Lawrie about ivermectin saga and let her play the recorded conversation with Dr. David Hill revealing he was coerced by Unitaid to change his conclusions about the benefit of ivermectin in C19 in 2020.

Sander Bauwens
1 day ago
Yes!

Moe No
1 day ago
ABSOLUTELY YES

Moe No
1 day ago
RememberAllah do you wear a necklace? If so what type of metal?

Jethro Bodine
1 day ago
Yes, but I think she was evasive about modelling per se, and the implication that the restrictions were right in the first place bothers me.

Angeline Briscoe-Sperling
1 day ago
I find the video very good. Just to add, Ireland has been free for many weeks.
Two important topics are; the adverse effects of vaccines and how injured people are not getting help or even recognition.
Another important topic is the surpression of medication and treatments that have cost many lives.
These topics are important because if ” it” happens again, the power will be in knowledge and may prevent it happening again.
These two topics have not been researched enough and not been made public.
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Andrew Messer
1 day ago
Yes they have done the right thing. May all countries follow swiftly

Murilo Borges
19 hours ago
Yes…everyone shoud have fallowed Sweden since beginning

Annkristin Barnes
15 hours ago (edited)
@Madelaine Morch There was also the threat of a draconian pandemic law earlier in Denmark, which stated that foreign military personel could be used to forcibly va**inate the public in case of an “emergency”. As I recall, it was altered after massive protests, but not abolished entirely? We are concerned in Sweden that our government is planning to override our constitution with something similar.
The remaining threat of these un-lawful laws should be discussed widely!
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antropologue
10 hours ago
Topic: the lack of constitutional citizenship (only found in constitutions) is killing the European societies.

mickeyh1961
10 hours ago
Yes and yes

Susan Winchcombe
7 hours ago
Good, about time countries started to get back to normal, but I’m afraid she lost me when she said the vaccine covers all Corona viruses, if that’s the case why are people Co tracing for a second time, one own immune system copes far better with variants!

Md. Ahsun Raju
7 hours ago
An investigation should be done about Denmark. It has fucked enough by importing & marketing China Lock down. It has surely got from the evil gates NWO, WEF

Joshua
5 hours ago
I was intrigued about all the intense media focus on the so called “Vaccine Inequity” in Sub-Saharan Africa. Since when does the media give a rats ass about those folks? I did some research: Most of these countries have a vax rate<3% and also have the lowest infection rates in the World. Conversely those countries with a vax rate>65% have the highest infection rates. Aside from being dangerous on other levels, it looks to me like the vax increases the infection rate drastically. This Sub Saharan “control group” for the “experiment” cannot be allowed to reveal the truth, that is why there is a push to jab them all and eliminate the control group, IMHO. I was stunned by the range of numbers, nothing close that could be attributed to “noise”. This is certainly a smoking gun!
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H L
2 hours ago
Its not covid laws, they’re all measures! Shldve asked her why they use incorrect terms.

Number 7
2 days ago
I love Fred’s style of interviews.
Appears to not have an agenda. Or if he does, he keeps it to himself.
Old fashioned journalism. Tough fair questions. And letting the person speak, but not unchallenged.
Breath of fresh air.
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WithMetta
WithMetta
6 hours ago
He always has an agenda which he never good at concealing. He repeatedly asked this interview subject leading questions to support his views
, and she consistently pushed back. I’m old enough to remember “old fashioned journalism” where reporters were expected to come from a place of neutrality. It’s a very difficult thing to do, and it’s absolutely not what you are watching here. It’s alarming, really, that this can pass for reportage without agenda. Seems the consumer no longer understands what neutral reporting looks like. This ain’t it, and he knows it.
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devonmackify
3 days ago
I am happy to hear this and I hope that this translates into others paying attention. Thanks from Canada !
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
Not even close… Politics – the “brain dead” guvment(al) went against the experts in the start, and have lyed and lyed and.. Look into the killing off the worlds best mink production – illegally – costing every dane ca 500 dollars + los of export and taxes for years – maybe for ever.. And Mette Frederiksen’s lies and deleting sms’s “so” the Mink comission can’t read her comunication in the days, where they were deciding to do it.. And the cops calling the mink owners and pushing them haard to kill their mink, before it had been legaized..
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sunflower
2 days ago
Have you notice mainstream media, such as CBC is not talking about it. They want us to be fearful , so that we keep on watching the news on CBC …I am so done with them.
Dr John Campbell from the UK was right all along he has his own channel, watch it if you can….over one million of subscribers…. That should count for something.
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codorin
2 days ago
Trudeau is not know for his smarts. he is more famous for his socks. hace fun in his ability to understand anything truthful.
5

Andrew JS
2 days ago
Denmark and England have now both made the right decision on this in my opinion.
4

Browneyez
1 day ago
Canada is waiting. Go truckers.
5

DDS Rdds
1 day ago
BØRGE ODK only good this production are gone ,

Jens Angelsgaard
1 day ago
Unherd = UN-herd

Jens Angelsgaard
1 day ago (edited)
@BØRGE ODK YES – Germans and Scandinavians can easily see through UNherds tricky spin. The danish government is scared of its own earlier Covid lies
1

Jens Angelsgaard
1 day ago
@Andrew JS – Is it the right decision to recently put legislation in place that can declare a new lockdown within the hour?
1

Jens Angelsgaard
1 day ago (edited)
@ DDS – The danish government, police and army broke the danish constitution GRUNDLOVEN. This is the issue.
2

Friendly One
5 hours ago
I’m praying Canadian Truckers can drive an 18-wheeler size hole through Trudeau’s tyranny.

Jesmond Mifsud
1 day ago
A country actually following the real science. Well done Denmark. Let’s hope that more countries follow this trend. It’s time to end this madness.
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Tosja Kaj
Tosja Kaj
14 hours ago
Рlus the echo of the Canadian protests..

Jonson Javier
12 hours ago
Denmark is one top happiest country in the world having less working hours per week, very high minimum wage rate with free university and medical and child care.
1

Klaus Larsen
3 days ago
One of the unsong hero researchers of the pandemic. I am Danish but I did not know of her until today
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tule fogger
1 day ago
her IQ must be waaaayyyyyy up there, high up there (so awesome)

Paul Whetstone
3 days ago
Fantastic interview, Freddie! We desperately need more Danish-style culture in the US.
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Kate-o
Kate-o
3 days ago
They have a unified culture and respect life aka never happening in the US.
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FuskerFisker
3 days ago
I’m from denmark …and i’ll tell you it has not been easy to be in the group of 19 % not vaxx’ed. There has been a lot of out-shaming from the vaxx’ed people, but i guees it has been the same all over the world. Anyway peace and love to all the pure blooded, greetings from John in Denmark
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fck munch
3 days ago
@FuskerFisker exactly that mate. The shaming and segregation all over the world of the unvxd, by gov, media and vaxd people is utterly disgusting and appears to be just washed over when a person from the establishment appears to be reasonable all of a sudden. I see it as Stockholm syndrome. This isn’t over,, not by a long shot. Something stinks.
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FuskerFisker
3 days ago
@fck munch agree
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James Smith
3 days ago
Will never happen. The US is highly polarized, aided and abetted by the winner-takes-all political system. In Denmark, no single party has had majority rule since around 100 years!
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
Not even close… Politics – the “brain dead” guvment(al) went against the experts in the start, and have lyed and lyed and.. Look into the killing off the worlds best mink production – illegally – costing every dane ca 500 dollars + los of export and taxes for years – maybe for ever.. And Mette Frederiksen’s lies and deleting sms’s “so” the Mink comission can’t read her comunication in the days, where they were deciding to do it.. And the cops calling the mink owners and pushing them haard to kill their mink, before it had been legaized..
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
@FuskerFisker Knæk og bræk – hvis du er stangfisker..

FuskerFisker
3 days ago
@BØRGE ODK hehe Børge det er jeg …og nu varer det ikke længe inden vi skal igang med sæsonens sild i limfjorden ….glæder mig som et lille barn ;-D og dig ?
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
@FuskerFisker Deep shit. Bor 10 km fra nærmeste vand, og 30 fra “min” Gudenå, hvor jeg plejede at to-håndsflue “konstant”, hvis jeg havde tid/råd. Og jeg “kan ikke” nøjes med af og til – får laksefeber, når sæsonen starter, og abstinenser i dagevis efter en tur – som jeg reelt ikke kan, fordi kun MC og ingen steder at sikre tøj osv mens jeg fisker 1 km væk.. Surt show.. :/
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FuskerFisker
3 days ago (edited)
@BØRGE ODK du må have fat i en bil hvor grejet altid ligger klar …anyway, sådan gør jeg året rundt alternativt er en 30 eller 45 scooter ikke dum til at klare opgaven, hvis det handler om økonomi.
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
@FuskerFisker Det er om penge. Har haft bil, og gjort som du siger – men det er bil eller nyt tag eller nye vinduer eller tandlæge osv.. Førtidspension – fedt nok at det er DK, men stadig surt in the middle of nowhere, hvor jeg fx ik ku få internet eller havde mobildækningen, så jeg måtte opgive firmaet – og knækkede psykisk.. Og jeg her ikke rigtig tillid til to hjul mere, efter jeg smadrede et korsbånd 3-4 år siden, foruden at jeg som sagt skal parkere langt fra vandet lige op af en cykel og gangsti, hvor læderjakke, hjelm stangrør osv er lige til at tage med.. Nogle gange er oddsene bare imod en.. ;P
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Madasin Paine
3 days ago
@FuskerFisker
Thank you for telling US. We really need to learn of the success failures and challenges of countries like yours.
2

Night Lily
2 days ago (edited)
yes, and in Canada! Canada’s handling of the pandemic has been pathetic.
1

Allan Frost
2 days ago
And pay 50% tax?
1

Eye of Horus
2 days ago
@FuskerFisker I find that horrible to hear. Too bad Freddie didn’t question her about that.

Craig Walters
2 days ago
It’s too late for us unfortunately. As soon as Trump uttered the words, “Democratic Party hoax”, we were doomed to lose this battle

Susan Drakenviller
2 days ago
@fck munch Well, I happen to be vaccinated and I never tried to convince others unless they ask my advice. However so many times I have been pressured by people not to get vaccinated, they call me a sheep, they bother me with their unfounded conspiracy theories and so on. All I hear is ‘elites’, ‘establishment!’ and no actual solid arguments. You know what stinks? Five former friends of mine dead of covid, all unvaccinated and members of their family too that they convinced not to protect themselves. Congratulations.
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fck munch
2 days ago
@Susan Drakenviller wow. Well, unfounded conspiracy theories? How about the fact that in 8 months, these new technologies have killed more people than in 30 years of all others combined. That’s official. Shame that when we try to share this information in a link it gets deleted by shittube or other guilty parties. Nothing to see here…just a coincidence i suppose. Not that we’re duty bound to provide this info. People have issues accepting it, on the whole, plus the colossal amount of other glaringly obvious social engineering and gaslighting tactics that have been used and officially admited. Try SAGE for one. And, as your story is so easily told, so is mine: everyone i know who’s had the poke is ill. Many people i know were refused treatment for other illnesses that could be easily treated but refusals of hospital admission made them drastically worse. Some are now dead. But of course, this is, i suppose, just a story to push my narrative. Not the “establishment elites” using utterly ridiculous policies which do the opposite of good, like refusing early treatmemts that have been proved to work time and time again. Oh no, not them. They never make billions by way of economic cronyism. No, never them. Enjoy your CBDC’s. The BIS and blackrock runs your info. You were warned. And I don’t give a monkeys.
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Susan Drakenviller
2 days ago
@fck munch Well if you don’t give a monkeys and don’t care, you are certainly not any better than the blackrocks, elites etc… and you are not worth talking to either.
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FuskerFisker
2 days ago
@Madasin Paine you’re velcome madasin, have a nice day

Milton Conde
2 days ago
@fck munch get a life
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Paul Whetstone
2 days ago
@Allan Frost …and get free health care, free education, free job training. Besides, if billionaires would just pony up, the average American wouldn’t be tax burdened.
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Allan Frost
2 days ago
@Paul Whetstone It is a long time since you have been in Denmark and don’t trust everything you read. Healthcare is the worst it has ever been, education is limited and you pay for books and so on, job training – maybe if you want to drive a bus. Many things have changed here over the last 25 years and not to the better!
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fck munch
2 days ago
@Milton Conde i have one thanks. And i intend to keep it.

fck munch
2 days ago
@Susan Drakenviller and you addressed no points in my original comment, which i addressed to someone else, which you used to reply to me. The segeragation is utterly disgusting. And you are no better than blackrock and the BIS if you just wash over that. Which i feel was your origin intent anyways. You just wanted a dig. Well done. Keep digging.
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Susan Drakenviller
2 days ago
@fck munch You haven’t heard me defending ‘segregation’ so what is your problem, what’s the dig?
1

Paul Whetstone
2 days ago
@Allan Frost I’ve visited Denmark several times in the last 10 years because my wife’s side of the family lives there. I believe them when they tell me the US is about the last place they would ever want to live.
1

Allan Frost
2 days ago
@Paul Whetstone I am not saying USA is a better place. But Denmark is getting more and more like the US.
1

db
2 days ago
thats impossible, it’s an oxymoron basically

Rock On
2 days ago
Nope. Utterly corrupt society!
1

fck munch
2 days ago
@Susan Drakenviller the shaming and segregation was the main point of my comment – to someone else. You washed over that and had a ramble about something different. You didn’t even address the main point. Instead you decided to talk about conspiracy theorists. Wtf! All of what i responded to you originally is easily verifiable facts and you didnt address any of it. Whether you like it or not, the “establishment” has it’s grip into just about everything, including CBDC’s which are a priority with regard to economic surveillance. You failed to address that also.
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Rock On
2 days ago
@FuskerFisker no shame in Africa for not taking white man’s poison. Locals know the poison is in the injection. Tanzania discovered this when sterilizing agents were in vaccines.
3

Rock On
2 days ago
@fck munch no shame in Africa over not being vaccinated!
5

fck munch
2 days ago
@Rock On Tanzania’s team didn’t fair so well with that rebellion. Shame, the president was very funny with his testing labelling, foiling their rigged tests. I would’ve liked to have seen more of him and his team. But they seen it a mile away. They weren’t daft.

Susan Drakenviller
2 days ago
@fck munch Did I? My point was that as much as people complain about shaming and ‘segregations’, they never consider the other side being harassed by them for having a completely valid different opinion. And again I am for free choice not mandates, however I never heard any convincing argument not too.
You are just stating that your facts are easily verifiable but sorry they are not. You can believe that but you are wrong.The only thing that supports it is your idea that the ‘establishment’ or what not is corrupt. People aren’t dying or ill because of the vaccine.
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Faz A
2 days ago
“High Trust in health authority” as rare as humanity in humans.
“SAGE, UK: people were “too relaxed about the pandemic.”
It then urged the government to increase ‘the perceived level of personal threat…”
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FuskerFisker
2 days ago
@Rock On so nice to hear …maybe i should go and live there …only 2,3 % vaxxed in tanzania sounds good in my ears
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D JSV
1 day ago
Here in Sweden no one wears masks indoors nor outdoors. Not in shops, not in restaurants, not in schools, not on buses. And no one is fighting, screaming or building their identity on this issue. Not only are masks not required, the health authorities don’t even recommend wearing them (with a handful of exceptions).
We stuoidly and recently introduced a very limited Covid passport (for some venues with 100+ people)
We are, rather famously, not a ‘right wing’ country. Nor are we anti-science. Watching the hysteria in America and the absolute hate is very depressing. Swedes are a very strange and paradoxical bunch. They can both be incredibly independent (going its own way policywise during the entire pandemic) but also cringe-inducing copycats. So far we have largely succeeded in holding the morons who want to copy the US culture war and hatred of unmasked/unvaxed at bay. I hope it stays that way.
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D JSV
1 day ago
@FuskerFisker I’m in Sweden. Unvaxed and doing fine. Not been exposed to too much shaming and none in person (though I’m independent so that helps).
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FuskerFisker
1 day ago
@D JSV the outshaming starts when they find out i was unwaxxed …i standed up to my rights and showed what freedom is about, so i was never scared of telling who i am. i’m glad to hear you not had been exposed to such thing. hav det godt kære svenske nabo
1

FuskerFisker
1 day ago
@D JSV i loved the way tegnell managed sweden right from the start ….you did it well in sweden …no doubt.

Paul Whetstone
22 hours ago
@D JSV Unfortunately, the collective IQ and EQ in the US has dropped significantly over the pandemic….of course it’s been in decline for decades. Thanks for your comment.

Fraser Bailey
3 days ago
It’s good to see the Danes Lego of all the stupid rules. The rest of the world needs to do the same.
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Ulrich Enevoldsen
Ulrich Enevoldsen
3 days ago
Lego? Was that a pun?
10

TheLenskjold
3 days ago
They have only eased restrictions as they did last year and will shut us down again for the winter!
The epidemic law has not been removed
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Kekistani Help Desk
3 days ago
Can’t decide if joke… Or spelling mistake

thundercity311
2 days ago
“Lego”. Nailed it.
6

Sheerluck Holmes
2 days ago
It’s good to see the Danes Lego of all the stupid rules
I daned to laugh at that.
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Scott D
2 days ago
Well done!

Herman Seabird
2 days ago
So funny you say Lego! Brilliant pun
2

Conor White
2 days ago (edited)
Seems Ireland and Uk did this earlier.. unfortunately as you move further east and south in Europe, it’s vaccine mandates, booster mandates and fines if you don’t comply – Austria
1

Drew Dam
2 days ago (edited)
The ‘stupid rules’ were set in place to see how ‘believed’ are the stupid rules. A test of the populas’ psychotic belief-system. There are, however, great changes afoot, not ‘Global Warming’, which is a short transitory phenomenon only, but far more sinister ‘Global Cooling’ that is also transitory, 100 year approximately, and that is how long the current Grand Solar Minimum will last. The BBC did two programmes on 17 January 2014, https://youtu.be/DueVWamHmYs, about the cyclical fact but at the time the scientists failed to understand exactly what is a Grand Solar Minimum! Nevertheless, the ‘paid-for’ scientists were more than happy to take the cash and the BBC changed their tune to comply with the narrative of ‘Climate Change’ with us all boiling in an overheated world. Now that the truth can be felt in a cold northern hemisphere with abundant snow and ice everywhere (except in the UK which for the moment continues to bathe in the comfortably warm North Atlantic Drift), the ‘Climate Warmers’ will not only appear silly, they will also be freezing cold. Wise up, do the research and buy some woolly undies…
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Clinton Boucheix
2 days ago
The rest of the world have no Ikea
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Miguel Planas
3 days ago
Brilliant. It’s wonderful to see what happens when modelling is done and used correctly.
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martifingers
martifingers
2 days ago
I can’t help feeling that this is a bit like the old adage about spending on advertising . Half of it is ineffective and wasted – the trouble is you don’t know which half.
My point is that it’s not sensible to just praise a model because you agree with its policy implications when it is accurate. The rational thing is to look in detail at the models and learn how to improve them – and this is clearly only possible if you are have expertise in this field.
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BobWidlefish
2 days ago
Nope, lockdowns never worked it was just theater. Modeling hasn’t helped at all, it’s done immense harm by making politicians think lockdowns would help.
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Sharon Combs
8 hours ago
Oh, bullshit! The only reason any of these countries is “relaxing” authoritarian over-reach are the massive protests occurring worldwide. But apparently Australia has gone full Nazi!
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Richard K
27 minutes ago
What about the flawed modelling of the last two years? Nothing brilliant about it.

Evolution Through Awareness
3 days ago
I imagine Denmark didn’t apply ‘nudge unit’ suggestions to their modelling. We have seen how certain countries were keen to apply the fear model of influence which has been destructive in many ways.
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L Palm
16 hours ago
Yes I agree.
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Israeldiegorivera Genius2 The real Genius
3 days ago
We have a moral duty not to comply. No to discriminatory vaccine passports and mandates, it is an utter disgrace. This must not happen England. Will never vote Labour or Tory again.
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Jean Dixon
3 days ago
These issues have nothing to do with parties, who are all under orders from their puppet masters. Not enough people understand that.
43

Liz Eggar
3 days ago
No. Vote REFORM UK. Great policies that make sense. Check them out.
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Anonosaurus
3 days ago
Same in the US. No compliance, no bended knee. Grew up Republican – now, not a registered voter, and complete contempt for both parties. I pray that they repent for what they’ve done, but they will never get my forgiving vote ever again.
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J OTowner
3 days ago
Same here in Florida. We’ve been done with it for over a year. I’ll never vote Dem or Republican. Independents or third party only!
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J OTowner
3 days ago
@Anonosaurus agreed. I was a lifelong Dem, but left that party in 2016 and joined the Greens. Now they’re corrupted too. I have nothing but contempt for these corporate/ bank owned parties. We need to get big money out of politics and decentralize everything!
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J OTowner
3 days ago
@Jean Dixon the Fed and world central banks are the true government.
15

Teresa Steele
3 days ago
A sole independent, and I will be voting as will my family and their families, we need rid of the party system world wide. INDEPENDENT.
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Ja Ozzie
3 days ago
@Jean Dixon so true! People are too naive and gullible about what is really happening and who’s running the country
10

Anonosaurus
3 days ago
@J OTowner Glad to hear I’m not the only one. We need to live like the free people we are, forgetting about the rotten political process in this country.
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Jean Dixon
3 days ago (edited)
@J OTowner And those above them.
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fuzfire
3 days ago
At this point Republicans are still far better than Democrats but yes still Repbs aren’t very godly anymore. They have this big tent mentality that pulls in groups bent on sin and selfish and Godless people. Not Good long term!
1

fuzfire
3 days ago
Then you are going to allow the worst elements to rule over you. If you exercise your vote for the least corrupt, I.E. Republicans you can still foe a while remain free and prosperous.
1

Stanbridge Scientific
3 days ago
common sense in DK, same in Sweden who refused to follow the rest of the world 2 years ago. What are other countries going to do now? How can they still justify their policies?
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Eduardo Viajero
3 days ago
With all these news, Philippines will now be more strict with the No Vax, No Ride policy. The unvaxed cant ride public transport. Even those with cars are also being checked.
1

Garry Holmes
3 days ago
Stay awake everyone
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Justin MacCurdy
2 days ago
Meanwhile in Canada the Liberal party is wreaking havoc on it’s citizens through draconian measures.
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The fat Controller
2 days ago
There are no political solutions.
1

Clara Wal
2 days ago
We clearly have the same views
! And watch the same channels!

Keep Keepers
2 days ago
@Jean Dixon deep state/elites are in control & they have no mercy upon us the general public
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Mia Ash
2 days ago
Absolutely!
No Mandatory drugs of any kind, EVER!
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Stanbridge Scientific
3 days ago
Common sense in DK, same in Sweden who refused to follow the rest of the world 2 years ago. What are other countries going to do now? How can they still justify their policies? Thank you DK and Unherd for making this video.
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
Not even close… Politics – the “brain dead” guvment(al) went against the experts in the start, and have lyed and lyed and.. Look into the killing off the worlds best mink production – illegally – costing every dane ca 500 dollars + los of export and taxes for years – maybe for ever.. And Mette Frederiksen’s lies and deleting sms’s “so” the Mink comission can’t read her comunication in the days, where they were deciding to do it.. And the cops calling the mink owners and pushing them haard to kill their mink, before it had been legaized..
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John S
3 days ago
The government and public health officials around the world have not demonstrated an ounce of emotional intelligence or common sense in the past two years. At least UK and Denmark are heading in right direction.
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Doctors’ Bury Their Mistakes
3 days ago
@Stanbridge Scientific you got it mate, it has all been a sham/scam, done by shambolic politicians and their “experts”, who must be put on trial in court.
5

mar gota
2 days ago
sad to say we have a stupid govt here in the PH by not letting the unvax go out of their house these past month, only the vax can go out freely, they think the unvax spread the disease
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HotBot
2 days ago
But Sweden did follow the rest of the world after a while?

Susanna Nielsen
2 days ago
@BØRGE ODK Jeg vil bare lige sige hej til dig. Er det ikke til at brække sig over, hvis det er det indtryk, udlandet får af Danmark – klassens duks. Opgaven er sandsynligvis at optræde som lokkeduer for at få tvivlerne i andre lande til at tage imod vaccinen Og nu kastes der så lidt smuler ud til folk. Se hvor godt det går her! Ja lad os nu se, hvad de ellers har i ærmet. For de stopper ikke med dette. De er beordret til at lyve for befolkningen. For god betaling sikkert og for visse privilegier.
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Veda Vyasa
1 day ago
It is worthy to hear Mirnes Ajanovic , lawyer and leader of BOSS party in Bosnia and Herzegovina what methos he used to make people in this country free from cov pass and mandatory vaccination, which was against the constitutional law of human rights. Someone sjhould make interview with him in English så that many people can hear!
here was italian interview, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za6Nu18qO3o&t=2825s. There are more interviews but not translated to english.
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D JSV
1 day ago
@BØRGE ODK They say that “the first casualty of war is truth.” I think that applies to pandemics as well. Everything became “push the official narrative” for better or worse
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BØRGE ODK
1 day ago
@D JSV Yep.!!!
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BØRGE ODK
1 day ago
@D JSV Claws Slob “Cowboy 19 – The nue Rezet” or something like that – a book..

Long _one
14 hours ago
It could be that Sweden already has digital I.D, that many countries are aiming to roll out under the guise of covid defense.. Just an idea Glad this woman is speaking sense though. It’s the common sense that should’ve been out there all along. A shame it’s not on mainstream media!

Lars Johansson
3 days ago
I’m aGP in Sweden. This is impressive. Danmark is a few steps ahead of some, and miles ahead of others. They’re showing the way.
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Greg Grimer
Greg Grimer
3 days ago
Belarus showed the way
6

Joe B
3 days ago
Why give them any credit? It’s like you are thanking the hostage taker for finally letting you go. They were wrong for 2 years and have ruined so many lives. Now they are trying to wash their hands. And it’s not over yet – there is always the possibility of introducing restrictings and lockdowns again.
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
Ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa – watch Dark Horse Podcast – you don’t have a clue… Not even close… Politics – the “brain dead” guvment(al) went against the experts in the start, and have lyed and lyed and.. Look into the killing off the worlds best mink production – illegally – costing every dane ca 500 dollars + los of export and taxes for years – maybe for ever.. And Mette Frederiksen’s lies and deleting sms’s “so” the Mink comission can’t read her comunication in the days, where they were deciding to do it.. And the cops calling the mink owners and pushing them haard to kill their mink, before it had been legaized..
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Asp Tuber
2 days ago
Normal person in Finland here: Agree totally.
I (re-)discovered SSI:s website in the beginning of December (early Omicron days). Their predictions, and especially their discussions of previous predictions (the prediction talked about here, dated 17/18th Dec, references their prediction from early December, and it was quite nice already around new year to compare the earlier one to reality), made the wait for the “Omicron-tsunami” much less stressful.
The Danish SSI also writes really clearly: not dumbed down (yeah, they do do those press-release things too), but lots of data and very easy to follow conclusions and arguments. (I usually read them in Danish, but they some things, like the models discussed here, they do publish in English too.)
From reading the tea-leaves of our experts it does seem that at least some of them were looking closely at the Danish models (a few oblique references here and there). Journalists and (some) politicians, not so much. Around Christmas we got the situation that our testing capacity (not to mention tracing) just couldn’t deal with it, and it can’t have been a surprise to those looking at Denmark. I’m not usually prone to conspiracy thinking, but I wonder if this (not working to extend testing capability) was a deliberate way to force our politicians out of a case-count mindset…
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Luis Crawford
2 days ago
I did a DNA test I had 3% Denmark and Sweden . Very proud of my Nordic brothers and sisters haha
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Mia Ash
2 days ago
Denmark is the most civilized country!
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meg JA
2 days ago
I’m in NZ we go under a traffic light system, whilst are boarders are closed we are living normally apart from can’t have gathering over 100 whilst we allow omicron to move through slowly. Our boarders are booked until April with thousands of people trying to get in however they are I think going to open the boarders.
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Luis Crawford
2 days ago
@meg JA I don’t think denying freedoms to people who are unvaxed normal. Unfortunately New Zealand, Canada and Australia turned into authoritarian hell holls. Definitely not the liberal and free counties people thought they were.
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MrSmokinDragon
2 days ago
@BØRGE ODK Rant a bit more and continue to use wrong words – that will surely convince everyone you are not a raving lunatic
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BØRGE ODK
2 days ago
@MrSmokinDragon Thank you – for showing your weakness. IF you had had anything to push back with, you would have started with that, and then gone to namecalling (like all good little lefty puppies do, when they can’t defend their claims or beliefs). And – sumtimz u haf 2 be a butt creative, to avoid getting vanished – besides the fact, that english isn’t my first language, and I sometimes hit the wrong key, and often let he mistake be (if I notice it) so weak fukz like you can expose their lack of arguments, by “going after the man instead of the ball”. Try going for some balls next time – I’m convinced you don’t have any.. Bye bye – feel free to use the scene to flash your weak lack of insight, and need to deminnish someone – I won’t use any more time on you – not even read that “answer”, that your narcissist ace can’t resist throwing up, even though yu know, I won’t read it… ;*
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Veda Vyasa
1 day ago
Sorry, Bosnia and Herzegovina was free from cov-passports and mandatory vaccination already from 20. Dec 2021. If you could hear lawyer Mirnes Ajanovic who managed to protect people using the basic laws about human rights , and sued the government of BiH for violating basic laws
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DDS Rdds
1 day ago
Joe B cut Down on your drug, not good for you

DDS Rdds
1 day ago
BØRGE ODK only good this part are closed

Shalini Varma
1 day ago (edited)
@Joe B yes the whole scam has been decades in the making. The narrative collapsing I feel is part of the plan. People need to be really on guard. This is NOT OVER. Remember the goal is Agenda 2030, one world govt, currency, freedom and rights gone, chinese social credit score, tracking, digital id. Please dont fall into the trap of thinking this is done folks
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akyhne
1 day ago
@Shalini Varma Get a life… And a job.

Normally Norma
3 days ago
Beautiful words, Hoping we get this in Canada and the whole world! Inspiring and nice to see someone in a healthcare position that gives us faith in the shambled system!
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Jennifer Neumann
3 days ago
I never thought I’d be scared living in Canada but I am. I feel like they are killing the patient to cure the disease.
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Phil Kubik
3 days ago
Hi Norma.! Greetings from Britsh Columbia. I like your comment, unfortunatley I think our system is set up so as to make it very easy for the goverments to impose rules( whether they make sence or not) on the general public. It’s very concerning and from here in BC there is no end in sight. They keep moving the light at the end of the tunnel. Cheers…!
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oldmoviemusic
3 days ago
@Phil Kubik at least now with the truckers convoy we have brought visibility to just how many people disagree with govt overreach!
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tjampman
3 days ago
@Phil Kubik It is called laws!
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Brent Atkins & Chrys Silvestre
3 days ago
@tjampman mandates are not laws. Canadian leaders went too far in my opinion and many others feel the same way.
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Garry Holmes
3 days ago
Don’t fall a sleep again.
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Normally Norma
3 days ago
@Jennifer Neumann I totally understand what you are saying.. I am starting to fee more hope! Take care
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Normally Norma
3 days ago
@Phil Kubik I am also in BC, on the Van Island and I have sure had enough.. I think we need to get our voices heard more here. Just coming home on the news I heard them being all negative about what is happening in Ottawa.. We must stay positive and stand our ground!!
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sunflower
2 days ago
We need to let Canada know about this , even though they have high number of omicron. They confirmed that omicron is not that severe, no matter what some politicians want to claim! They love to keep us fearful. Enough already.
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Cornel Popa
16 hours ago
Good on you lady
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Npc I’m knot
6 hours ago
this has to end/. its mo longer about covid.. it’s about gov control

Npc I’m knot
6 hours ago
are. they are. if omi is more deadly than cancer/…. people have lost their minds.
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MediaFilter
3 days ago
I’m so glad that voices of REASON are winning out over voices of HYSTERIA.
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VerySeriousUser
3 days ago
Many thanks to you, Unherd, and Camilla Holten-Möller for talking to you.
I think an important thing to bring up would have been the cost and damage caused by these measures.
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Sherry Bonnett
Sherry Bonnett
3 days ago
Yes , we need to talk about how much harm these measure have created.
7

J Weir
2 days ago (edited)
The governments do not care. All they want is to bleed you dry and regulate your life. Stupid people out number people with brains, governments will see no need to address this.
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Andy Evangel
3 days ago
I have to first commend you Sayers for your ability to ask the most intelligent questions-it speaks to you doing alot of background research about the chosen subject matter.
Second, my take away from this is that modelling isn’t and cannot be an exact science but it can be done more cleverly with a healthy dose of common sense thinking for it to produce reliably accurate results.
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Madasin Paine
3 days ago
Iteration!

TheKitty1952
3 days ago
Excellent interview. Dr. Camilla Holten-Moller showed the uncertainties of predictions and didn’t cast blame on those whose models didn’t reflect the current reality. Traditionally, epidemiology has been a science of hindsight/detective work for diseases. The rapid worldwide pandemic spread of a disease calling for genetic sequencing and population modeling is relatively new. The predictive models are a function of the parameters placed in their models.
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
Not even close… Politics – the “brain dead” guvment(al) went against the experts in the start, and have lyed and lyed and.. Look into the killing off the worlds best mink production – illegally – costing every dane ca 500 dollars + los of export and taxes for years – maybe for ever.. And Mette Frederiksen’s lies and deleting sms’s “so” the Mink comission can’t read her comunication in the days, where they were deciding to do it.. And the cops calling the mink owners and pushing them haard to kill their mink, before it had been legaized..
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Ioan Charnley-Parry
3 days ago
Sense, logic, rationality and honesty. A recipe for freedom.
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Spider
Spider
3 days ago
Don’t worry, USA will come liberate them from that
10

Bob Gillis
3 days ago
I would have more confidence in this pronouncement if they didn’t continue to lie about the faked “case numbers”. And her response to “Are all covid laws being dropped ?”. was “Largely” That’s another way of saying “No”
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Ioan Charnley-Parry
3 days ago
@Bob Gillis I agree. Why experts at the very least are still either unable or unwilling to state clearly why ‘cases’ are a misleading and flawed metric for the severity of the situation is beyond me, unless they’re clearly associated with governmental or pharmaceutical actors. MANY of us realised this extremely early on, it wasn’t a complicated distinction or point of necessary nuance. It does immediately throw up a question mark in your mind regarding their angle/agenda/intended message when they can’t or don’t immediately address the term.
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Bob Gillis
3 days ago
@Ioan Charnley-Parry
Well put. And until they address it and the felonies involved, they could easily use it to justify further renewals downstream.
And, if the UK, is any example, they eventually will, given enough faked numbers.
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Ioan Charnley-Parry
3 days ago
@Bob Gillis unfortunately I suspect you’re right. Baffling how they still persist to insist that we’re coming off the back of 150-160,000 ‘covid deaths’, when recently revealed details – distinctions we should have focused on the entire time – show the true, FAR lower extent of true CV19-related mortality. If only truly independent, honest public inquiries existed….
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
Not even close… Politics – the “brain dead” guvment(al) went against the experts in the start, and have lyed and lyed and.. Look into the killing off the worlds best mink production – illegally – costing every dane ca 500 dollars + los of export and taxes for years – maybe for ever.. And Mette Frederiksen’s lies and deleting sms’s “so” the Mink comission can’t read her comunication in the days, where they were deciding to do it.. And the cops calling the mink owners and pushing them haard to kill their mink, before it had been legaized..
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Ioan Charnley-Parry
3 days ago
@BØRGE ODK I agree that the government have somewhat done their own thing and lied continuously, but sorry you lost me after that. I’ll read it again and attempt to understand the mink story…
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
@Ioan Charnley-Parry They decided that “safety” required killing off all mink – which was not legal. I believe, they have wanted to do that (there “backing parties” have wanted it for ever) and just used this as a tool, to keep the backing group backing them up.. Glow ball izt fluffers…
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Eye of Horus
3 days ago
@Ioan Charnley-Parry Dr Vinay Prasad addresses this in one of his videos. He refers to most experts being interviewed as weather vanes. They shift with the wind and give middle of the road, safe answers.
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Garry Holmes
3 days ago
Now people will fall a sleep again.
Wake up.
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Madasin Paine
3 days ago
@Bob Gillis In general public health officials especially out front are guilty of massive unprecedented injustice and unprofessional oath breaking messups. So they act so “careful” now in phraseology and denialism.
Little countries tend to be more diplomatic and now doubt the UK is lucrative market and trade “partner”.
Not like some of the reactionary loud mouths in certain hegemons who could care less what another smaller country thinks with a few noteworthy exceptions, albeit conditionally so and subject to sudden extreme change.
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rov li
3 days ago
@Spider as long as there is Fauci and Walensky, i doubt

Lea Nielsen
2 days ago
@BØRGE ODK I agree with you 100% – and the reason why “slette mette” is calling off the restrictions right now is because we have the parliamentary election coming up within a year and she wants us to forget that she ordered injections, mask wearing, isolation aso. before we are supposed to vote again!! It is all political…
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BØRGE ODK
2 days ago
@Lea Nielsen spot on.!!!

Mia Ash
2 days ago
Danes are the most civilized people, EVER!
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db
2 days ago
yes, and these Scandinavian countries with their socialist democracies are always portrayed as “illiberal” by American. things are not so simple, or black/white

bzdtemp
2 days ago
@Bob Gillis What fake case numbers?
As for the answer, then “largely” covers it very well since it is exactly that way. The few measures that is left aren’t very different from what you expect people to otherwise if they are sick, as in stay home and don’t go around infecting others.
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bzdtemp
2 days ago
@Ioan Charnley-Parry You seem to have amazing abilities, only those abilities are normally called hindsight so they aren’t really amazing at all.
There is such a thing as caution, just as there is different COVID19 variants which is seems your hindsight is blind to.

bzdtemp
2 days ago
@BØRGE ODK COVID19 was spreading like crazy among those working with the animals – and there was a clear risk that with COVID19 infecting the animals them self they could have become of one or more new variants.
We can’t go back and see what would have happened, but while clumsy handled legality wise the safe thing to do was remove the problem.
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Bob Gillis
2 days ago
@bzdtemp
Provide a real name and I am happy to address your questions.
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BØRGE ODK
2 days ago
@bzdtemp I’m an inventor – I solve problems, when they apear – I don’t just blow up the business.. There are – it seems – no creative minds in the danish goverment. And I’m realistic about the size of the dangers, there were – pretty fuckin’ small.. I was !shamed” from the start, for asking, how “our” people could NOT have a lot od msks aso, when “eveybody” knew, that it was a matter of time, before something would happen, where we would need them. I also wrote to an “official” start up compaby, and suggested, that we got off our aces, and started to make masks and face shields, and filled our needs, and earned money by selling to other countries (it takes 2-3 days to make a mould for casting,. I was “shot down” – shorty after some private cmpanies bought a bunc of cloth in ””8i belive9 Beligium, and made masks. I don’t give a flying turd for “our” goverments (globalizt fluffers) “brains”.
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Ioan Charnley-Parry
2 days ago
@bzdtemp thank you very much indeed for your thoroughly strange comment. I’ve felt this way from the very beginning, no hindsight required. But thanks for saying I have ‘amazing abilities’, compliments are always welcomed

Sir Scofferoff
3 days ago
Other countries need to forget flattening the curve, and flatten their governments overreach.
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Garry Holmes
3 days ago
Thank you for this comment.
People will fall a sleep again
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Fuhgeddaboudit
2 days ago
The only thing that’s been flattened is our morale!
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Chandra Star
2 days ago
Well govts could extend their reach over big pharma, tech, etc and corruption.
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Zeta Reticuli
2 days ago
BRAVO!! Well said.
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Fuhgeddaboudit
2 days ago
@Chandra Star
Those things are government!
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Chandra Star
2 days ago
@Fuhgeddaboudit govt has become PR & spin doctors for those things. Not that they’re not shifty themselves. The Panama papers exposed a lot of these ppl.
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Mia Ash
2 days ago
So well stated!
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Don Tonno Con Fagioli
2 days ago
Yes, that ‘curve flattening’ comment from the modeller caught my ear – because NONE of these measures was ever required, at any time – and they were ALWAYS contrary to people’s inalienable freedoms.
This talking head never had ANY right to impose the measures that she and her sidekicks did.
Seriously, Freddie – are we supposed to feel grateful?
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TIME IS UP
2 days ago
haha well said !!!!!!!
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Nora S
2 days ago
As Dan says on the Pandemic Podcast, flatten the mandates!
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Careful Consumer
1 day ago
Fizzer and/or Bill Gates should be the ones funding the modeling and research.

Kim Berman
1 day ago
@Chandra Star
That’s what they’ve already been doing!

J Ttt
1 day ago
Meanwhile blackrock. Vanguard, Amazon etc have sucked up all the wealth and assets and plan to take it all so we’ll own nothing. It must be seized and the perps published.

L Palm
16 hours ago
Right on.
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Neo Dyne Loaders
2 days ago
Good to see Denmark keeping up basic freedom and human rights compared to other countries
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Janko G
Janko G
3 hours ago
Especially Austria, just approved a law for every adult to be vaccinated by law or face a fine of 3600 euros every 3 months.

SuzyStohrYoung
3 days ago
So grateful for UnHerd. Thank you for covering and the journalism you provide.
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debbiedogs1
debbiedogs1
3 days ago
He is still too biased in several ways, but does some decent work. Not impressive, jist decent for the most part.
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tshekedi walker
3 days ago
@debbiedogs1 i agree. overtime you can see some of his biases come out however, we are all bias. main stream media is extremely bias to the left or right, which ever they support.
With freddie though he’s a bit of fresh air and he’s very close to balanced as you’ll get.
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Kylie Jones
3 days ago
@debbiedogs1 Where do you think his biases lie?

hansiharjunharja
3 days ago
They should legally ban the passports, too. I know they aren’t mandated but it can still be used. It is a documents of segregation. It should not be allowed in a free democracy.
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lionel azulay
lionel azulay
3 days ago
What an eye opener… brilliant interview, both of you. Informative, enlightening, and exposing!
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Angie at Work
3 days ago (edited)
It’s wonderful that they relaxed their regulation, but it is still scary that simple modeling from some governmental “experts” can have such an impact on normal citizens lives. Many of us have done mathematical models. Garbagge in, Garbagge out. Modeling assumes the model design is correct, the assumptions are correct and there is uniformity of all data points. We humans are not all identical, so the government policies should never be made just based upon some mechanical computer models!
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BØRGE ODK
3 days ago
Politics – the “brain dead” guvment(al) went against the experts in the start, and have lyed and lyed and.. Look into the killing off the worlds best mink production – illegally – costing every dane ca 500 dollars + los of export and taxes for years – maybe for ever.. And Mette Frederiksen’s lies and deleting sms’s “so” the Mink comission can’t read her comunication in the days, where they were deciding to do it.. And the cops calling the mink owners and pushing them haard to kill their mink, before it had been legaized..
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MrSmokinDragon
2 days ago
LOL – how would you EVER make policies for an entire nation WITHOUT using modelling?

MrSmokinDragon
2 days ago
@BØRGE ODK Are you still ranting? LOL

Angie at Work
2 days ago
@MrSmokinDragon Don’t make policies for the sake of making! Keep the government small please

BØRGE ODK
2 days ago
@MrSmokinDragon Why do you call it ranting mMr Bad Breath?

Veda Vyasa
1 day ago
You should hear Mirnes Ajanovic who exposed government as criminals acting against the basic laws of human rights..and not following even instructions of producers of vaccine. there are some contraindications which should be considered , so everybody cannot take vaccine-. Here he is talking for italians lawyers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za6Nu18qO3o&t=2825s and there are many interviews (not in english ) where is explained how he was legally fighting for freedom in BiH and it should be done in all other countries.
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Pascal Lefrancq
3 days ago
She sounds like she also studied international relations. How careful not to judge the decisions of any other country. Great job and nice interview. Thanks for all the insight.
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RockManLP_Radio
RockManLP_Radio
3 days ago
nothing wrong with judging agianst the insane nazi madnates

Classy Compositions
3 days ago (edited)
It seems to me that we could use a little less modelling and a bit more rational philosophical debate about what is actually important in life and in what direction we want to go to as a society.
But most people prefer not to think about such difficult matters, and just want to here “the Truth” from a person in a white coat who has done some untransparent number-wizardry.
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LTVoyager
3 days ago
I have to laugh when restoring basic freedom and human rights is considered a “radical” policy. How far the world has fallen in the last two years.
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Ulrich Enevoldsen
Ulrich Enevoldsen
3 days ago
Agreed
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Luann Rouff
3 days ago
If you don’t laugh you will cry.
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Amelia Mulder
3 days ago
How right you are.
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Joakim Pettersson
3 days ago (edited)
It has taken 100 years to build up our phobophobia, political squabble, drug lobby and the resulting lack of self-agency – within all areas of society – to the levels they all peaked at during this pandemic!
If we only could be more adult, remember how we did know how to manage multiple interconnected risks, rather than panic about every click-bait presented to us.
We can deal with the multiple crisis our last decades of utter unreason expose us to. If we just could remember how. But there is no time for that now. We are playing out all crises at once. We forgot how to handle them.
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Andreas Grubhofer
3 days ago
fncking fauci, daszak n all the other corrupt scientists etc… fncking who, chinese government n msm.. n fncking gain of function in wuhan… they couldve warned the whole world way earlier n probably even stopped this pandemic (or at least wed have way less deaths, suffering…)
we need better systems… power to the people n not a few hundred people in parliament…
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TONY COLLYWESTON
3 days ago
@Andreas Grubhofer sounds like your brain is overheating because you don`t understand.
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TONY COLLYWESTON
3 days ago
Society can try and get back to normal because the majority got vaccinated.

Garry Holmes
3 days ago
Stay awake everyone
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69birdboy
3 days ago
@TONY COLLYWESTON ridiculous comment…so you know what the death rate is even for unvaccinated people under 50? 0.08 per 100,000. The death rate in car accident s is far higher.
The collateral damage will be huge and last a lifetime for many people.
We also have no idea what will happen long term with vaccine injuey
One thing that has become clear is that the vaccines have never affected transmission….only protection to the individual, so it should’ve always been an individual choice. You got played
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Susanna Nielsen
3 days ago
You are right. I have made a comment at the top at this side. I am from Denmark and my impression of what is going on is quite different. Now the Danes go to bars to get drunk. Hope they wake up one day with a hangover.
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DJ
3 days ago
This is just so wonderful to hear. Such a calm and measured conversation. Comparatively here in Australia, we have hysteria, fear and unhinged public servants and medical ‘experts’ driving division, kids with masks at schools, consideration of 4th boosters and that covid control will never end.
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Fauzia Choudhry
Fauzia Choudhry
3 days ago
That’s because there is no shortage of useful idiots and corporate sellout pollies, bureaucrats, public health officials, and media in Oz.
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David Fedele
3 days ago
I’m from Australia, I couldn’t agree with you more.
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Michael Mears
2 days ago
Pretty much nailed it, DJ. Federal Election coming up soon. Let’s see if enough people have had enough.
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Hayden E
22 hours ago
@Michael Mears probably lots of votes will go to labour and we’ll be just as bad off
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Tulsi Vana
20 hours ago
@Hayden E but what’s the alternative? I could never vote for an unctious selfish prat like Clive Palmer
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Michael Mears
20 hours ago
@Hayden E Yeah, that can happen, if people just vote out of spite. I keep in mind we have two votes: one for the House of Reps and one for the Senate. There are plenty of minor parties people can put high on their list, well before the majors. It’s all a matter finding parties with policies that align as much as possible with your own. Plus, any party you vote “1” for who also reach the required minimum 4% of first preference votes will receive electoral funding. It currently is $2.91 per “1” vote, and last time is was about $68M all up for those who received it. Well over $50M went to the two major parties, so by not voting “1” for them we rob them of that funding.
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Hayden E
18 hours ago
@Michael Mears very well put. I do vote independent with the party that closest resembles my beliefs and am concious of who their vote goes to at the end of the day. Glad to have more independents in parliament makes for a better system.
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Aline de Leandro
16 hours ago
@Hayden E Labour/Liberal are just 2 sides of the same coin. They are controlled by the same entity!

Aline de Leandro
16 hours ago
@Hayden E Independentd give their preference to a major part like Liberals. Greens are scary.

Hayden E
15 hours ago
@Aline de Leandro yes no greens for me, I prefer liberal over labour but you’re right. Labour and liberals same as the criminals

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K R
3 days ago
I might have missed it, but was there any mention of metabolic health and vitamin D levels. Wouldn’t it be amazing to see that figured into the modeling, meaning, what would the hospitalization rates be if everyone exercised and got sun or took the relevant supplements, and did not eat seed oils and other foods that cause inflammation.
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Gregory Cickavage
3 days ago
This pandemic has never dominated my life. Thats the problem, people over exaggerating the facts!
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fixfaxerify
fixfaxerify
3 days ago
On the same day that Austria is introducing mandatory vaccination, Denmark is doing the opposite. Looking at the numbers (daily deaths, new cases, etc) nothing is particularly more alarming in Austria as compared to Denmark as far as I can tell. Oh, there is a difference in vaccination uptake however
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David Paz
David Paz
3 days ago
Well done, Denmark. The Zero Covid strategy has proven to be untenable.
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Joe
3 days ago
Sanity in Denmark. Seriously well done!
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Project Dorcas
Project Dorcas
3 days ago
Thank you for this intellectual and balanced conversation. If only Australian modellers have a tiny fraction of Dr.Holten-Møller’s integrity & intelligence.
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metalfox28
metalfox28
3 days ago
This science needs to be shared with the leaders in Canada
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Oneva Lewa
Oneva Lewa
3 days ago
If you are sick, stay home…. Common sense. 2 years too late… But finally.
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Deborah Hebblethwaite
3 days ago
Well done as always. You should win the best host award
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Buddy
Buddy
3 days ago
I seriously hope you don’t get Rogan-ed for having an open dialogue. Keep up the great work, we support you!
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Brandon
Brandon
3 days ago
Congrats Denmark! This is wonderful News a government that actually follows real science. Peace and love from Canada! Go truckers!
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Michael Neuroth
Michael Neuroth
3 days ago
Finally! Science backed , logical decisions .
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Pensky File
Pensky File
2 days ago
Freddie, just ask her straight out: “how the hell did we get it so wrong?”!!
We need the Dane approach adopted globally.
Thanks for the interview
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CA
3 days ago
We desperately need professionals like Dr Holten-Møller in New Zealand help our govt act accordingly
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Tangle
Tangle
3 days ago
All this rhetoric about “being careful and seeing how things progress” only ever goes one way. They weren’t being careful with the unseen damage done to millions.
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BIGMAN TINGZ Network
3 days ago
The fact is the models haven’t proven reliable. Lives have been destroyed around the world following these “measures “and these models are to blame. These establishments need to be held responsible.
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Mister Fixie
3 days ago (edited)
Do the unaccountable US modelers who have caused so much harm ever go back and see where they have erred and build that new data into the model? Will they apologize for the damage? How have Denmark’s models differed from those of other countries, and why?
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Tom Loewen
3 days ago
Brilliant example of leadership. quote, “we have to communicate uncertanties” loved that line! Instills confidence
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steveevans946
3 days ago
We must end state emergency powers. It’s far too tempting for governments to be able to change laws and create new ones, without democratic scrutiny. These powers have been the only dangerous thing about the last two years.
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Andrei Aroutiounov
3 days ago
You amuse me Freddy. The UK models were wrong because they were produced by incompetent people. In a normal system you would fire incompetent and hire a new team (or better three teams). But, for that, the government itself needs to be competent.
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Bill C
3 days ago
Omicron is going through our house right now. I’ve been fighting it for a week. I have had worse colds. In our house, the one person that had gene therapy, had the worst symptoms.
Secondly, the recent study out of China showed people that had SARS had a huge immune response to SARS2. Much higher than the vaccines.
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Epi
3 days ago
Well done Denmark ! Great common sense policies !
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ranter7100
3 days ago
Finally some sort of sanity from the politicians in a country can this spread to NZ now please
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RC
7 hours ago (edited)
We’re into the 3rd year of the pandemic which began worldwide in 2019. We’re way past 18-month mark. Excellent interview!
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linda be
3 days ago
Could it have anything to do with the complaints filed in the ICC? I think so.Crimes against humanity.
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T G
3 days ago
This is very balanced. Keep up the good work!
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Lora M
3 days ago
excellent! Bravo, Denmark, putting the people first, as always!
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Privacy Matters
1 day ago
Please have her replace everyone’s modeling. She needs to win some sort of award.
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Renita
3 days ago
I’ve worked in patient based forecast modeling for Oncology for over ten years. She’s a very experienced and knowledgeable modeler who takes pride in the accuracy and quality of her work. Congratulations on your team in Denmark! Great job. Doing sensitivity analysis around each input variable into the model helps you understand which variables are the most important. These inputs have to be as accurate as possible with your estimates. Learning, validating and refining the input assumptions is key to success. She understands this process very well. Please share your successes and key learnings with your fellow modelers in Canada and around the world.
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Paul Taintor
Paul Taintor
2 days ago
This is the most surprising video about modeling. I had lost ALL faith in it the field. Glad to hear it can be useful if done by honest scientists. It’s sad how corrupt or incompetent our modelers have become.
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Pumpjack Piddlewick
3 days ago
As said below, brilliant interview. Particularly as you let the interviewee answer your questions fully, and don’t try to interrupt with your own agenda. Brilliant.
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Claude Studer
3 days ago (edited)
I’m so grateful to South Africa for keeping us ” up to date”, due to their impeccable statics information and sharing there of, pointing us, as it were, towards the direction this omicron virus could take us and subsequently leading us to undertake the actions we are currently seeing taking place today. God bless.
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DJ
3 days ago
This is just so wonderful to hear. Such a calm and measured conversation. Comparatively here in Australia, we have hysteria, fear and unhinged public servants and medical ‘experts’ driving division, kids with masks at schools, consideration of 4th boosters and that covid control will never end.
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Alien in drift
Alien in drift
3 days ago (edited)
It’s scary that uncertain mathematical modellings caused the chaos at the beginning of covid19 and will keep causing the chaos again.
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Learn Media
Learn Media
3 days ago (edited)
Denmark has Dr Camilla Holten-Møller who speaks knowledgeably and intelligently on a highly technical subject in a second language and the Uk has Professor Neil Ferguson who, ostensibly, does the same job and struggles to talk to anyone knowledgeably or intelligently in any language. Another high quality interview full of useful information. Excellent, thank you.
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Zeeshan Khan
3 days ago
Freddie, great thoughtful content. Grown-ups having real discussions which seems to be now absent from normal society. I am not sure if you have already done this but I’d recommend talking with the founders of the Great Barr1ngton Declarat1on as well as captains of the Canadian Truckers Convoy.
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Lucinda Brown
3 days ago
Well done Denmark! Let’s hope the rest of Europe follow suit.
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Sharon Pfeiffer
3 days ago
Go Denmark. The rest of the world will be watching and seeing if this will work so they can ease restrictions
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Flossy Park
3 days ago
Brilliant interview! So sensible and professional!
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Badabing
3 days ago (edited)
A VERY fitting question for Camilla would be why recommendation for the government (prior to January) always seems to be according to the worst case Mathematical Modeling? What “justified” the Draconian lockdowns used during the last two years.
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Raymond Ager
3 days ago
As ever, the best interviews, the best questions and so informative listening to such experts. Great job.
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Luis Crawford
2 days ago
Wow the interviewer is actually on point with all his questions. So clear and punctual absolutely brilliant interview and then you have great guests I really think this channel is a great source of information especially for UK audiences, something which has definitely been missing for us. Thank you sir!
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jpdp
3 days ago
Common sense from a public health official.
Can we get someone like her here in Australia?
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OnlyOneStarWarsFan
3 days ago
While I’m glad they’re returning to a semblance of sanity, I worry that too many rubicons have been crossed to think that this totalitarianism is remotely over. Hopefully the Danish populace is less NPC than the American populace.
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Marc H
2 days ago
In the USA there is almost no logic behind Covid restrictions. This is the most sensible approach that I have yet seen! It should be adopted world wide!
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Susan Smyth
3 days ago
Hoping Canada follows very soon!
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Making Sense With Robbie
3 days ago (edited)
I’d suspect that a lot of the ideas and news coming out from the government isn’t about telling people the truth, but about getting the public to act in an advantageous way to the government/party spreading the information. So rather than there being a fear of the predicted numbers being true, the idea is that over selling the fear results in an appropriate response from the people. tldr, we are told what we need to hear in order to take the actions we are supposed to take.
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SA_bluemonday
3 days ago
This woman is an absolute Rock Star! Thank you to her and whole of Denmark for BEING SANE!
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DJ
3 days ago
This is just so wonderful to hear. Such a calm and measured conversation. Comparatively here in Australia, we have hysteria, fear and unhinged public servants and medical ‘experts’ driving division, kids with masks at schools, consideration of 4th boosters and that covid control will never end.
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Don Camua
Don Camua
1 day ago
Australia should learn from this. We are still under paranoid stage in the pandemic although most Aussies are experiencing covid fatigue. plus the government lost my trust especially that most premier failed to follow a national model and the PM allowed state leaders to manipulate their citizens thru evil mandates
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Jason Shoulders
3 days ago
I’m so sick of covid. I don’t care anymore. If your scared don’t go outside. This really isn’t that deadly unless you’re old. You lived your life, life has risks, who cares if it just 1 percent more risky
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AnAverageHuman
AnAverageHuman
2 days ago
I wish we could have gotten such clear headedness earlier in this whole mess. If our government had been more open and transparent about the realities there probably wouldn’t have been nearly as much fear and distrust. Tragic but hopefully we will learn.
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Steli P M
2 days ago
Incredible how difficult it is to admit that natural immunity is potent.
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Maeyane Moeng
Maeyane Moeng
1 day ago
How I wish more of the so-called scientists could listen to this and try and bring back objectivity and common science back! We have being emotionally charged and clouded for too long
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Bobby Dread
2 days ago
Congrats to Denmark for pragmatic policies, based on real-world info and sound modeling. The UK needs to rethink its reliance on SAGE and fear-mongering professors such as N. Ferguson! Great interview. Thanks.
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Jean Ellis
3 days ago
Wow I hope someone tells Biden and Trudeau that they are no longer in the “In Group”.
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F. Hugh Eveleigh
F. Hugh Eveleigh
2 days ago
Excellent work. Penetrative questions and clear, balanced and informative answers. Fascinating. Thank you.
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MIO
3 days ago
Trying to seem like we have been resonable in two years. The hyppocracy runs so deep here in Denmark!
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Leszek Nagooglach
Leszek Nagooglach
3 days ago
Greets from Poland! We haven’t had any covid passports at all. And no lockdowns since last winter.
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Paul D’Attilio
Paul D’Attilio
1 day ago
This was incredibly informative. I wish I had more faith in government to tell the truth but unfortunately that is not the case. Great interview and a great format.
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LTVoyager
3 days ago
All countries should have opened up in the summer of 2020 when respiratory viruses tend to be much less severe. Letting the virus spread when the risk was relatively low would have made the winter of 2020 much less severe and might have made covid nearly nonexistent by this winter had things been open again in the summer of 2021.
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Richard Lyon
Richard Lyon
3 days ago
It’s fascinating to compare the head of the expert group on mathematical modelling in Denmark with the likes of “Independent” SAGE modeller tremulous Christina Pagel, who appears to live tweet her morbid fears and anxieties from a fainting couch
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butterflybeatles
butterflybeatles
3 days ago
Same in Cuenca, Ecuador:
The Cuenca Emergency Operations Committee voted Sunday to allow the reopening of bars, discos, entertainment centers and brothels and to increase the capacity for restaurants and public offices. The COE said that improving Covid-19 pandemic conditions dictated the changes.
Cuenca’s Social Security hospital reports a “modest” increase in Covid-19 admissions and says it is adding beds. (El Mercurio)
Previously under a 30 percent capacity limit, restaurants are now allowed to operate at 50 percent indoor and 75 percent outdoor capacity. In addition, public offices, theaters, gyms, spas, markets and shopping centers are allowed to open to 50 percent capacity.
“As a result of the declining number of Covid-19 infections, we are able to make these changes and hope to make more in the future as circumstances allow,” the COE said in a statement. “We continue to urge the public to observe all health protocols.”
The COE said it continues to urge private businesses, including restaurants, stores and shopping centers, to request vaccination certificates for entry, but said it is no longer mandated.
In a report to the COE, Cuenca’s Health Ministry office said that Covid-19 cases have peaked in the city and should drop rapidly in coming weeks. The Ministry said there is still pressure on hospitals since admissions lag behind new cases by an average of two weeks.
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Anja Oguegbu
3 days ago
Wish we would have that common sense in Germany…but our politicians are a joke…a pretty bad one.
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Andrea Re
3 days ago
Still to watch it. I hope she will say why they had done away with all restrictions before (only to reintroduce them again, so they could do it AGAIN tomorrow) and why they had, among other things, vaccine passports.
Will she show contrition?
Now let’s see…
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LTVoyager
3 days ago
No country has been ahead of Sweden as Sweden followed the science from the start and has always had the most rational policy of any country.
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Willa Frith
Willa Frith
2 days ago
Refreshing. Wow! People really don’t need to be force fed with unverified information because it came from an expert. Really enjoyed listening to this lady. I’m glad they got it right for Denmark. What a relief.
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Ping Pong
18 hours ago
As an eit engineer, my take away from 2 years of hysteria is: dont hire mathematical modellers. They suck.
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Martin Ruth Mohr
2 days ago
Maybe someone should model the past predictions of Neil Ferguson’s modelling. Using the data of his previous modelling, from BSE through Swine flu to Covid (all massive failures…) so that we can get an idea of how massive his next failure will be.
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elektron2kim
3 days ago
“Omicron” is a substance from hating the government and experts who are insanely taking everything away from you in your life. The anger and sadness gets stuck and your remaining life force try to squeeze it out.
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Helen Murray
3 days ago
Great common sense coming from Denmark. Sick of UK’s politicised fear mongering.
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L Palm
16 hours ago
Good on you Denmark, may your non-political stand get through to our bought lot.
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A Simpleton
2 days ago
Yeah, yeah, I like the science, and I enjoy her competence and rationality. BUT these are secondary matters on the issue of restrictions. The problem is whether she is okay with the inhumane government policies, and what line does she think is too far to cross?
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Kevin Hill
3 days ago
Great interview listening to people who know what their doing for a change.
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Catarina SM
3 days ago
Trust comes with truth, expertise and good communication. All that we couldn’t have in Europe and USA, Canada, Australia. etc.
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Greg B
2 days ago
Brilliant! Perhaps the Danish politicians feared a few large trucks parking on their doorstep? All kidding aside, I salute you from Canada.
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Just a Bird
22 hours ago
In the Netherlands we’d also love to have her. So much so that members of our parliament requested our government to please ask her to peer review the models we use.
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TheMasonator777
1 day ago
You should have brought up the fact that the models were very inaccurate, to say the least, in many countries.
I would really like to see a simple graph with modelled predictions vs actual events. I personally think that computer modelling is about as accurate (and ethical) as lie detection. Which means we shouldn’t base public policy on it, or at least take it with a whole bag of salt.
All that has to happen is have incomplete data or bad data and it’s worse than useless.
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Eidolon#
3 days ago (edited)
Nowadays being a specialist is a precocity, almost all are young people with “40 years of age” or less and with a lot of “experience”.
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Thai Thai
Thai Thai
18 hours ago
It’s like watching Henry Cavill from the Witcher doing a really good interview! It is surreal to know almost all basic rights taken away in two years returned on Feb 1st. Good thing it was not on April 1st. Denmark is awesome. Danka for the brave modelling!
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Nicola Mackenzie Dodds
2 days ago
This video was more than interesting, it was extremely useful! I live in France, currently suffering from Covid-19 as are my teenage children, and this video was enlightening! Thanks so much for this clear and down to earth sensible journalism.
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HIM1984
3 days ago
Great interview.
Shows what could be accomplished when we remove politics from a medical/public health issue and allow those trained in the relevant fields to genuinely follow science.
People aren’t as daft needing to be cowed to as the politicians, some talking heads in media and others that aim to manipulate seem to think.
Kudos to this good Dr, her team and the nation of Denmark on showing the way forward.
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Jo Voorhees Collins, MPH, BS, NBCHWC
1 day ago
Great discussion, thank you both!
I wish Denmark could impart their wisdom to officials in the US because we are majorly failing here.
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Miroslaw Turski
3 days ago
That lady is scarily impressive. No wonder Danish models have been so effective, when they have such caliber of experts working on them.
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Caroline D
3 days ago
Watch for the boost in tourism, well done Denmark for having common sense.
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Jill Fabing
3 days ago
Dr Muller surely made a lot of intelligent sense. She provided valuable insight and cleared many questions on the variants. Impressive indeed.
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Sweetness
3 days ago
I find it odd that several countries simultaneously reverse their tyrannical “laws”.
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Passion For Art
Passion For Art
2 days ago (edited)
999999+ for Denmark!
Yes everybody wants their own country to follow Denmarks example!
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Michael Ullman
3 days ago
Denmark has had a very low overall rate especially during Delta – I would like to hear her thoughts on that.
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J Spanyer
3 days ago (edited)
Excellent interview, thank you. And I think I can answer your question that you asked many times, but first I’ll give my background. I worked as an electrical engineer for years, then did a computer science degree and became a computer engineer for years, then at 40 my wife had terminal cancer so I went back and did a master’s in microbiology and Immunology to learn to boost her immune system, and she’s doing great 23 years later!
In the Masters program I passed the md/phd biostatistics class and was amazed and appalled at how imprecise the math and science was in statistics. I realized that public health programs are strongly based on statistics and are more of a practice than a science. It’s kind of like cancer medicine, there’s definitely some science but a whole lot of practice (educated guessing) too. So the answer to your question is believe the public health modelers and professionals just like you would believe a medical doctor: if he or she has been right most of the time in the past then they can probably be trusted and if not then they can’t. And if they don’t have a track record, just like a brand new doctor, then take what they say with a grain of salt until their models and advice prove accurate.
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wogfro
wogfro
2 days ago
I won’t hold my breath. The covid passport still exists in some areas. Until every single item related to this is scrapped, they’ll bring it back on a whim.
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Blaise Allen
2 days ago
Another great interview. It’s so refreshing to see a competent Public Health expert openly and honestly discuss modeling and pandemic policies. If only the FollowTheScience experts actually did what Norway has done, we would all be better off.

Glenn Mitchell
3 days ago
Regardless of the accuracy of the models, did the government of Denmark (or the medical professionals advising them) have an algorithm that told them when to adjust their COVID restrictions, or were those decisions simply political, with no direct mathematical link between the model and the decision?
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Dave Tus
Dave Tus
3 days ago
Sensationalizing of events and reality leads millions or billions of people into misery. Thanks Freddie for your great work and you proved that. Let us unherd ourselves in such insanity.

kristina
2 days ago
Dropping the restrictions is simply not enough. Someone has to answer for all the damages. It’s like you’ve been kidnapped and released and the kidnapper simply walked away unpunished.
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Sheena.mary.g
Sheena.mary.g
16 hours ago
Brilliant! Denmark is the happiest country in the world…not hard to see why.
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Jongwe Rachembera
2 days ago
Great interview Freddie! Very smart, no BS lady….just real “science” and facts.
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J D
3 days ago
natural immunity is still discussed as a dirty word … this must stop.
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Eli Bo
Eli Bo
3 days ago
I hope it happens in Canada !!! The truckers in Ottawa now are heroes now standing for our freedoms !!!
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KM
KM
22 hours ago
The difference between the UK and Denmark modeling is UK political interference with an intention to twist outcomes to suit the desired narrative. UK modelers have admitted that they modeled to the extreme worst case “on order” so to speak.
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Velvetanne Madro
2 days ago
When will these modelling “experts” start focusing on modelling and predicting the damage lockdowns do due to economy and mental health, and not just COVID “cases”.
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Eidolon#
3 days ago (edited)
Nowadays being a specialist is a precocity, almost all are young people with “40 years of age” or less and with a lot of “experience”.
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Morten Billcliff
2 days ago
Good interview. I’d like to know if any modellers have been asked to look at the other side of restrictions – to model the effects of social immobility, increased anxiety, domestic violence, etc.

Faith Mary Moore
3 days ago
Her defense of the thing that they put in people’s arms 2 or 3 times says it all.
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nextlvlng
nextlvlng
3 days ago
The epidemiologists usually make this a matter of math…
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STEPHAN OBERHOFF
STEPHAN OBERHOFF
2 days ago
Interesting that this obviously intelligent and articulate person would declare Delta as having been more infectious (which is the behavior of progressive variants – AND more severe. That is unfounded. Delta was not as severe in it’s MR (mortality rate) than Alpha or Beta. I would be currently on the watchout for NeoCov to see if it mutates enough to jump from bats to humans which requires significant mutations on multiple levels of that virus.
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Margaret Dertesi
3 days ago
I think some governments are recognizing public sentiment and are getting in early so it looks as though their reduction in restrictions was their own idea and not forced.
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GJW
3 days ago
Awesome Interview. Dr Camilla’s approach shows what can be done when the modelling is not politicised.

Cath
3 days ago
Sensible decision. And yet, in Italy, Austria and Germany there are the new mandates and draconian rules. Fascism hasn’t faded much over the intervening years, apparently.
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V G
V G
3 days ago
There has been much damage to economies, individual livelihoods as a result of this so called modelling. In Australia we continue with vaccine passport mandates and a division in our society as a result of all the mandates. The promotion of fear as a result of the modelling by our governments and MSM has been overwhelming and continues to this day. Some of the modelling numbers of infections and deaths that has been reported has been absolutely in ridiculous, yet our government has based the restrictions on this modelling. This has been so very damaging.
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Corina
3 days ago (edited)
This is wonderful news. Does it mean we can now visit Denmark without vax certificate and tests?
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Amazing Philippines
Amazing Philippines
2 days ago
Great discussion and interview. Thanks. Here in the Philippines, I believe almost everyone I know, their families and coworkers have had the Omicron symptoms for a week or so, cold/mild flu type. No medical treatments that I know of. People recover and go on with life.
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anonjan82
3 days ago (edited)
One thing I noticed that she said they worked with a large group of different experts from different universities. This is a big difference from the Netherlands were a small group of similar experts from a government agency who got it dead and dead wrong all the time uptill now.
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WeiWuWei
8 hours ago (edited)
In the UK the modellers were asked by the politicians to fit their models to their policies.
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Andrew Smith
3 days ago
Another good one Freddie!
If only you were in charge of BBC news and this lady replaced Imperial’s professor pants-down Neil Ferguson we would all have had a much better pandemic!
Please keep up the great work.
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Dean Thompson
3 days ago
Thank you, Ms. Moller and Mr. Sayers, for an excellent interview. It was very well explained and very rational. I would agree to have Ms. Moller and the group come to the US, and help the CDC, NIH. Mr. Sayers, this is one of an excellent series of interviews. My best to the UnHerd team. Take Care. Stay Safe.
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staninjapan07
2 days ago
Well done, Mr. Sayers.
A very nicely put together interview.
Neither sensational nor downplayed.
And how the Danish put we British to shame in terms of interviews in a 2nd language.

109PokerFace
1 day ago (edited)
Great guest! We desperately need people with her level of intelligence here in Canada!
All we have here are totalitarian psychopaths that have no understanding of science or statistics.

Beertus
3 days ago
Wow! Looks like Denmark has good data and competent researchers, unlike the Netherlands
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Lynn Geek
3 days ago (edited)
After hearing the difference between England’s and Denmark’s models, is AI being used in either model?
England’s failure to correctly model the course of its Covid pandemic may be due to the continued influence of Professor Neil Ferguson and his wildly incorrect initial model. Just because he resigned in disgrace doesn’t mean that he didn’t continue to influence the modelers.
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Becky Bolding
2 days ago
Great news! I recently had a positive test but I’ve had colds much worse than that virus. Chills, fatigue, and nasal stuffiness and that was it!

winstonsmasterplan
3 days ago
The question is if it’s ethical to use these models to install fear into people to change behaviour
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Marion
Marion
3 days ago
Wonderful presentation! Thank you, Freddie! Keep up the great work.
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Gulnar Kulybekova
3 days ago
Thanks. Good to learn by other countries.Would be great to ask from modeling groups about the reason of higher infections in highly vaccinated countries versus less vaccinated countries with early treatment were advised? Why these modeling group can not offer other modeling based on other options?
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Madelaine Morch
3 days ago
There is severe illness from the vaccine as well! Denmark has a very high level of vaccinated, the ever highest level of cases and the excess mortality ( raw numbers of death from all causes compared to projection based on previous years)significant highest in 2021. Natural immunity remains the important difference in my opinion and I don’t understand why Denmark chose to vaccinated the children.
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Alina Ishmurzina
Alina Ishmurzina
2 days ago
Wow! so good to hear some common sense finally appearing through the covid fog. Thank you, Freddie!

parallelworldsguy
3 days ago
This is the first expert statement I’ve heard that the latest Omicron variant, while more contagious, is actually less pathogenic than the first Omicron variant. Great news, the pandemic is on the ropes!
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A word from the wise
A word from the wise
2 days ago
Our EU country said: “Now Austria has mandatory vaccination, we will have to follow”. But now Denmark has ended all covid laws, our country has not yet said “we will have to follow Denmark”…
Kudos to all the wise people!
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Mark Lopez
3 days ago
You are a great interviewer! And thank you for having a common sense approach!
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Bart Vanraes
2 days ago
We can only hope they are right.
I’m lucky to live in Belgium and our wave is a little bit behind on Denmark, so we can learn from them.
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Peter Azlac
3 days ago
You should have asked whether any funding from Bill Gates or Pfizer was involved with any members of the Danish modeling group like there is with Imperial College
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Greg Abbott
3 days ago
Great interview. Very good insights into the world of epidemiology modelling!

Jo Watts
3 days ago
And yet more restrictions are being introduced here in Italy from Feb 1! I don’t understand how they can continue to justify them?!
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conny lake
conny lake
1 day ago
A breath of fresh air in this atmosphere of asphyxiating paranoia and fear.
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Tom
21 hours ago
One can only hope the common sense shown by Denmark comes to crazy places like Canada, New Zealand and Western Australia!
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Mar kor
11 hours ago
High case numbers are not an issue if people don’t end up in hospital or seriously ill. Governments need to release their citizens and stop dictating. Let people get on with their lives
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Stephanie Olsen
2 days ago
She’s brilliant. I think she was doing what her highest sense of right was guiding her to do.

Karl w
1 day ago
If only more modelers were like this. I have a feeling that in most of the western world the general starting point with these people is “covid bad”.

Bruno
3 days ago
Well Freddie, good interview as usual. I admire your diplomatic touch because when I talk to my danish friends and seen from Sweden at the time, all wasn’t well in the danish kingdom.
For one thing, Mette Fredriksen the PM, lied a hell of a lot. Borders didn’t have to be closed and she was advised not to. It was an entire political and populist decision along the Norwegian lines.
Now…..are the Danes right to lift all measures ? You bet !! And for one reason. As much as the Danes might good obedient citizens, there would be a time where no one would follow any kind of restrictions.
The Swedes, who do not turn this pandemic into a political show, understood it from day one.
Time will tell if they were right or wrong. I wish them to be right because, if not, the lockdown Krampus in France will have a field day trying to lock us down.
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Circus 11
2 days ago (edited)
This is a very interesting interview , thank you very much. I am writing from Germany, where many people are becoming more and more desperate because the government does not dream of ending the strict rules. Instead, people continue to be frightened and it is claimed – despite insufficient data – that we are not sufficiently vaccinated. Children have to wear masks even in the schoolyard and, depending on how hysterical their parents are, are hardly allowed to meet other children. People in Germany have not been allowed to sing for 2 years. We have students who have not sung a single song in school since they started school.
We have a health minister whose fear (before SARS-Cov-2 came into our lives) of eating salt was great enough to talk about it in several interviews. It is sick.
The scientists who did the modeling for us were regularly off the mark in much the same way as GB.
The population no longer has confidence in its government – on both sides: those in favor of strict measures and those who feel locked in.
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B.E. Lewis
3 days ago
Freddie is being very diplomatic asking how “Different groups of modelers can come up with such divergent things.” But at some point the obvious has to be addressed, which is that it’s irresponsible to come up with drastically inaccurate “things” in your modeling. You don’t get an A for effort in science. Only for correct results.
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Boomdiada.
3 days ago
Thank you for a rational discussion based on Science and facts. Much appreciated.
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Mofenyi Choma
3 days ago
I think Denmark made the right choice. For the next video I would like to suggest that you speak about mandatory policies being implemented in many South African Universities. I would also like to hear more about what African countries are doing now.
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FrühbisSpät TV
10 minutes ago
Mr. Sayers, you do an incredible job as an interviewer.
And you had a great guest today.

z
3 days ago
It’s nearly two years late.
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Barun Mitra
2 days ago
A very good discussion bringing out the significance of Transparency and Trust as the key elements in any public policy discourse, such as the pandemic. Both Denmark and Sweden illustrated it. Unfortunately, many governments chose to sacrificed transparency and people responded by mistrusting the government agencies.

Naoko1875
3 days ago
I really appreciate your work on this channel. It’s always refreshing to listen to people who argue just based on common sense.

Alistair Clark
1 day ago (edited)
This is great! I just hope China doesn’t continue to release more variants. We need to seriously consider this is intentional biowarfare and is far from over. I wish our Canadian government would speak honestly and sensibly without predicting with bias.

Jan Hemmer
2 days ago
As for the evolution of a virus, it was Pasteur in the 19th century noticing that the virulence of a virus also depended of the route it takes through different species.
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gerafina li
1 day ago
The inaccurate modelling of many countries could be based on the inaccuracies of the data collected. Especially when many countries can not differentiate people in hospital because of Covid and people in hospital with Covid.

Ken Van de Burgt
3 days ago
Modeling of COVID has the same problem as the climate change claptrap. The climate model projections are profoundly wrong when compared to empirical data yet the government policies continue to be made on the basis of the models. GIGO models are not helpful.
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Shawn Eavis
Shawn Eavis
1 day ago
God bless Denmark! Hopefully Canada and other countries will follow suit!

S Verhulst
3 days ago
This is what ethical and independent journalism should look like.
Something that the MSM has miserably failed to do so, the last 2 years !
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Lolita Tudayan
3 days ago
Leaders around the world pushing for vaccine mandates should follow Denmark’s good example!

Barb A
3 days ago
Unheard, you are a light in the window for the weary. Thank you for the hope offered through such thorough journalism and interviews.
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Tudor Arter
4 hours ago
Excellent interview.Questions polite but pointed. Critique of UK modellers and their predictions discreet and yet quite damning!

Lance Lickfold
2 days ago
In April of 2020, Professor Michael levitt ( who won a Nobel prize for his modeling) came out with weekly reports showing how wrong the modeling of Professor Ferguson was, he was censored, ridiculed and told to “two the line”.
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MyThoughts
2 days ago
Thank you Freddie. She really is not committing herself one way or the other. Does not want to say natural immunity is stronger than vaccine immunity (although data shows that). She does not want to say anything really outright… So yes, for a country that is much colder for much longer than US for instance, I think Denmark is either brave or reckless. Time will tell.
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adventure_photo
3 days ago
None of the variants have been serious enough to justify anything that has occurred over the last two years.
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John Awakening
10 hours ago
Thanks again Freddy. Not many of the commentators from the UK appeal to me from the point of view of; content, level of discussion and level of clarity of thought. There only really seems to be you and Peter Whittle who can produce this quality of balanced and intelligent discussions.
This is another super job, I look forward to your future presentations.
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Annafaith
3 days ago (edited)
A lovely Doctor, its heart warming to hear some one of her position speak common sense, and refreshing to learn the team she works with are objective in their data modeling without bias and without bringing politics into it. Please can we change Governments with the UK for Denmark. If only. (sigh)

A. Leeman
2 days ago (edited)
Thanks Freddie Sayers for a really good interview!
It shows, beyond doubt, how modelers in other European countries are strongly (negatively) biased by political contexts, instead of aiming for pragmatic data evaluation. Maybe we can even call those other modelers fraudulent, as they apparently serve a political purpose instead of a scientific one..
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Nathalie Veilleux
2 days ago
Bravo to the Denmark country! Everybody should follow your lead! Here in Canada with the “Freedom Convoy 2022” things are starting to turn around. Hoping that other countries will follow the Denmark and the Canada will follow as well. God bless you all who are trying to end this nonsense.

greenbank
2 hours ago
Brilliant interview, brilliant Dr Holten-Moller. Great questions Freddie.

Stefan Schuepfer
3 days ago
Cases cannot be compared, because the actual numbers are a multiple of the tested one, especially with Omicron
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Lisa Knudson LCSW
Lisa Knudson LCSW
1 day ago
Sensible policy from a trustworthy govt. Sigh…if only the U.S., Australia, Israel and others countries would follow suit.

Tlb
2 days ago
This is heartwarming, thank you Denmark love from Australia
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James Smith
3 days ago (edited)
Asking one modeler to assess another person’s model and to keep laboring this is crass.
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Sara Σοφία
3 days ago
This woman seems like a great scientist! Thank you for your service!

Mark Harding
1 day ago
Modelling has limited usefulness, in that models can only use the existing understanding of the phenomena. Any errors in the model, including inputs, but also the intrinsic mechanisms that the model uses to generate the output, can cause the output to be erroneous and these errors can often be non-linear. The perfect model is impossible to produce and if it could would likely involve creating a duplicate of the universe and running that simulation in real time, which is not particularly practical.
That given, the modelers who create more accurate models, as defined by being a better fit to the actual observed data, should be applauded and rewarded and the modelers who produced wildly inaccurate models should be stood aside. A natural evolution of models would then occur whereby the erroneous models would be pushed out by better models. The better models should be made available to the modeling community such that they can be “improved” by a wide range of modelers, and the evolutionary process repeated where the improved models survive and the lesser are discarded. As it stands, the modelers in the UK and Australia (who largely use the UK model as I understand it) should discard their models completely as they are clearly unfit for use. They would do well to learn from the Danish approach.
This would, however, be a very difficult task, in that it would require modelers to abandon their models (if they are found lacking). Some of these models have been worked on for many years and have huge investments of time and effort and ego. Such a radical approach may be too much to accomplish. But, if any area could do it, epidemiological modeling surely would be a good one as there is a large upside to cooperation and limited pressures against cooperation (there aren’t, or at least shouldn’t be, particularly large financial or political forces preventing it).
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sosaysthecaptain
3 days ago (edited)
So glad she had a change of heart, but permission from the government to live your life isn’t good enough. These tyrants need to be stripped of power, and measures must be put in place so that nothing like this can ever happen again.
This lady and her bosses belong in prison.
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Diane Bode
Diane Bode
2 days ago
Yea, Denmark. Heart to heart, mind to mind, we can reach out and help each other creatively.
Reach out to help Canada. What the Canadian Truckers and all the Canadians supporting them deserve all of our support worldwide. THANK YOU!
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drum2be I Markus Gerlach
3 days ago
Great Interview! Don’t forget, live is risky and ends: smoking, drinking, driving, sports, household,… And don’t understimate your natural immune system,-). In the meantime we should focus on a daily human, peaceful and joyful life here and now. Because that’s all there ever is.
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mowen0yuriko
3 days ago
Denmark uses models to inform health authorities whereas UK models are designed to increase fear among the general public
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Karl Juhnke
1 day ago
Slowly, ever slowly common sense makes a comeback. Let us hope this continues.

mark hughes
14 hours ago
Requoting Dr. Lynn Flynn
‘For the first time in history we can transmit a disease that we don’t have to a person who is immunised.’
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Josh Eastwold
3 days ago
Freddie is a freaking star, and Dr. Holten-Møller is an amazing guest; a perfect model for others in public health communication.
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Henk V
2 days ago
Thank you, I think much less of modelers these days, considering. I am glad to see some modelers still have integrity. The standard should be to see who hits the mark consistently and continue to use these academics compared to the “let’s do (use) the same thing hoping for a different result.”

Jackie Wakeham
3 days ago
We must talk about natural immunity as normal and better than vaccine
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Frederick Swartzendruber
Frederick Swartzendruber
2 days ago
Accurate modeling and forecasting = less panic and more reasonable recommendations by health authorities. In the US, models have to take into account that over half the population is diabetic or prediabetic.
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James Laver
1 day ago
Could it be Denmark’s ability to perform accurate modelling has something to do with the fact as a small country they weren’t given a seat at the pandemic “lockstep” planning that preceded the actual pandemic and therefore their modelling was not subject to the prescribed erroneous methodologies? Call me cynical but that’s how I interpret it.
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bzdtemp
2 days ago
It is almost to see those that suggest that Denmark ending corona restrictions, shows that restrictions have been unnecessary and even oppressive ie. abuse of power. Those people totally ignore that had Denmark not had restrictions and also population following medical experts, then many many more Danish lives would have been lost and likely many thousands Danes would suffering from long term or permanent health damages due to COVID.
That things have not been so bad in Denmark is a clear demonstration that restrictions have been necessary and effective, any one suggesting otherwise need look no further than to countries that did not get restrictive from day one and that have not run effective testing including requiring test/vaccine/immunity passports.
In Denmark we have had 647 Covid fatalities per million people, the number for Sweden is 1,562, for the UK it is 2,275 and for the US it is 2,724 deaths per million.
The numbers show restrictions work, the numbers are obvious and should be so even for those that do not wanna admit it is so.
The US number of deaths is btw. shocking because they had the chance to do much better than any European nation, COVID spread here sooner than in the US and also the US had a head starts with the vaccines only they messed up and are keeping to do so in many states. The US is far behind when it comes to being vaccinated, but even more importantly there is to many not following science and they are paying for it – the US is on the way to a million COVID deaths.
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John Wilhelm
3 days ago
Freddie, your program is always so refreshingly intelligent. We could also use that Professor from Denmark in the USA…..
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Joris Bolhuis
1 day ago
Very nice insights into the specifics of how she and her colleagues took into account individual behavior and the depletion effect. Also the very localized informing and advising is really insightful. Unfortunately, Dutch media only portray Denmark as: “the Danes did listen to their government, our people never do”. Instead, people in power should focus more on individuals being able to think for themselves and give good unbiased information to let them make choices.
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Jean Dixon
3 days ago
Next up – climate change mandates.
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Laura Dimama
Laura Dimama
2 days ago
Interesting how nervous “experts” get about natural immunity and yet are so confident in a new technology injection that we are seeing has waning immune protection per the data. And with more injections the immunity is shorter duration and increase risk of negative efficacy.
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MyLil Ramey
3 days ago
I applaud Denmark for having people external to the politics of the country involved in the modeling.
It is tragic that there are too many perverse incentives in some countries, especially the US where I live, to keep this pandemic alive. The degree of fear-mongering and mandatory actions that are unwarranted based on the data combined with the silence of the medical community is like nothing I’ve ever seen in 30 years as a healthcare professional.
I can only pray that Denmark will lead the way for other countries and our attention will turn to where this virus came from. And so many respects I believe the hysteria of the numbers is a convenient destruction to investigation of the truths.
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CaitoKal
2 days ago
I am looking forward to the day where Australia gets to this point. We are going the other way….
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M. Bouanane
3 days ago (edited)
SAGE’ modellers have recognised they were making models the government asked for. No other argument could explane why so enormous difference between UK & DK models, two close countries and cultures. And many other EU countries – at least FR – have believed in UK’s models and were prepared for the worst scenario thru imposing more restrictions…
In one case it was a political model, while in the other case, it was a mathematical model.
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Steve Smith
2 days ago
Instead of treating us like adults we were treated like idiots and had to have the scariest numbers to make us comply. And yet many people are still wearing masks in supermarkets while you can go into a crowded pub without one and that was the case throughout December and January!

David Barry
3 days ago
Not a UK citizen, but there still seems to be a lot of conflation of responsibility between modelers’ model results, and how the govt and media (BBC etc.) pick and choose the most alarmist version to present to the public. Modelers always present a range of possible forecasts, given that they are dealing with huge unknowns. Government response has to take into account the possibility that the worst cases MAY occur. Media reporting though – they’re just in it for the most sensational option possible; i.e. whatever will get the greatest number of readers/viewers – and they tend to de-emphasize (or fully ignore) the nuances.
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Mary Hudson
3 days ago
As ever, a first-class conversation!
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Vela Vilina
2 days ago (edited)
All i can say is that she was “very diplomatic” all the way! The other thing: “vaccines are great” when all true scientists talking about something totally different! We will see in time how great this gene therapy was actually.
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Clifford Cobsilen
2 days ago
It’s elating to know about this. Hope other countries follow.

SapphireStone
2 days ago
It’s interesting cause in my area it actually appeared to be the vaccinated that were infected first with omicron and in much larger quantity of infection, and then the non-vacccinated seemed to be infected by vaccinated people. Regardless though we certainly have herd immunity now, the vast amount of the population have had it.

Joe Shmoe
2 hours ago
Our ‘modeling’ in Canada was SOOOOOOOOOO far off as to be a total joke. Provincial numbers never reached the entire country’s numbers. The focus should have been on the truly vulnerable. Destroying my small business did not save 1 single life…..

Stan Weaver
1 day ago
It’s good to have some logical discussion being aired.
But it really just makes it so glaringly apparent how deficient logic has been ever since we had enough information to know roughly what the situation was.
In my country they are vigorously pushing the present ineffective shots for groups who have never become ill.?
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Lesley Hobbs
2 days ago
Congratulations Freddie – brilliant and refreshing interview.

Iga 27
3 days ago
better late than never
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Jen
Jen
3 days ago
all governments SHOULD LEARN from DENMARK
grateful to unherd for covering this

Dan L
2 days ago
Now its time to make sure that those that pushed this whole insanity do not get away without answering for their actions

santy asanuma
2 days ago
This one of the smartest move in way forward in dealing with Covid19. Kudos to Denmark

Kate
1 day ago
Way to go. Let’s hope Canada follows this
1

Nadine Tasmania
2 days ago
Brilliant interview, good reporting and sensible information. Thank you!

dabrupro
3 days ago
A prescription is the end of a process that involves describing, which is continual.
Narcissistic prescriptionism seems to be the prevailing thought pattern
3

Herman Seabird
2 days ago
Oh my Gawd! There is hope in this world! This is history in the making by logically thinking leaders and a Humane government.
1

Sooraj Subramaniam
2 days ago
At the risk of being unpopular, could the probability of higher degree of ‘common sense’ and societal compliance be because the population of Denmark is far more culturally and politically homogenous than say places like the USA and the UK? They also enjoy a greater standard of living, I assume, so people feel less boxed in by their governments?
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Believe URHappy
2 days ago
Excellent work from Denmark. Hopefully Australia will catch on soon and follow suit.

Alistair Williams
2 days ago
You need to remember its a smaller country with less immigration and congestion. The PPM (parts per million) would be a factor as the UK has more cities of larger scale so a coefficient factor has a bigger impact on a larger society in totally. Nice report, John Campbell is doing some good work on following the epidemic too.

Rael Sackey
2 days ago
Denmark was the colonial “master” of the islands from which I hail(US Virgin Islands). The USA bought the islands in 1917. Most people thought that was great. As a Progressive, I think we would be better off today. Most natives never enjoyed the individual economic wealth of the US, and experienced debilitating immigration and subsequent overpopulation from people wanting to live in a US territory. The most important thing is, we do not have a Progressive government.
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Ray Greenwood
3 days ago (edited)
no, there are still restrictions for unjabbed. we require a negative test yet the jabbed dont, we can all see the data that the jabbed are getting greater number/%of omicon infections than unjabbed. its not over
8

Bobbie Jay
3 days ago
Australia here … so different from our experience here. The quality of our advisors is on notice by the public. Very conservative thinking here. Healthy society, bravo Denmark. Our Princess Mary made the right move

marian lynch
3 days ago
Thank you to England…you started the ball rolling in these islands….and here in Ireland we followed you. You were the leader..
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Z
Z
2 days ago
Good for you! Hope our morons in Canadian government and Ontario can see it the way you do and give us back our freedom. I am sick of living in a prison.

Nkosi K
2 days ago
wonderfully informative interview, very insightful, wish SA would go the same route as Denmark

Bisbo Nian
1 day ago
Denmark is not pushing an agenda, but rather giving the public a realistic view of the situation.

dumb dumber
3 days ago
This was a very interesting interview. Thanks for posting. ALL political parties agreeing. Unherd of in modern times.
2

David price
2 days ago
My wife and I live in Nicaragua. Nicaragua was one of the last to close its borders. And that was because there was absolutely no way to get in. Nicaragua never closed schools and never closed business. The hospitals here are free so the hospitals are always full. Nicaragua had a higher amount of deaths in April,May and June. Things slowed down in July of 2020 and the hospitals or clinics never had the excess deaths again. I truly believe we got herd immunity. The public transportation never stopped and they pack them in. Some schools the kids wear masks and some doesn’t. I think the only reason this Administration changed some things is pressure from the world bank. The bank was paying all of the countries in Central America. The only thing hurting Nicaragua is no tourist. It has devastated business.
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Linda Zerr
3 days ago
Denmark is also mobilizing a Freedom 2022 convoy, like Canada.
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Abhi Anand
Abhi Anand
2 days ago
Denmark is opening up because they are humble enough to silently admit all their restrictions FAILED. They have the highest case rates; even compared to rates in Africa or SE Asia, mRNA countries have high rates of infections. Needs to be looked into

Egil Bru Overaa
3 days ago
Did Danmark go into lockDown in march 2020 after receiving a analysis report from Norway? How was the quality of the analysis assessed?
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Brian O’Flynn
3 days ago
Excellent interview, both well prepared , Dr Camilla very well informed

Nana Browne
3 days ago
So proud of UK and Denmark, hope the Netherlands is next!

batcryalok
3 days ago
Lots of people want to be taken care of and don’t want to think for themselves. Government can easily control them via care and scare.
2

Glenn Mitchell
3 days ago (edited)
It would be interesting to see a similar analysis and explanation of leading (and/or competing) climate change models.
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Marc Turmel
Marc Turmel
2 days ago
Great interview, good to see common sense slowly coming back…

d2
2 days ago
Humble, knowledgable and fine. Denmark knows how to make statisticians.

Roeland L.C. Heijting
3 days ago
Modelling is very difficult. As my final work was about simulation of chemical processes in industrial systems I know what I’m talking about, I know that one of the most important issues is to adapt your model continuously to make it fit to the old data. Only like this you can predict, with new influences like a new variant of a virus, the future in a useable way. That is what is missing in many countries.
A last question is the influence of certain measurements and vaccination on reality and how they inputted this in the Danish model, as we see quite some statistical analysis which show the marginal to none effect on the epidemic flow. I would love to go through this with the Danish modelling group.
Thanks for this positive video.
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Margareta Laine
13 hours ago
Congratulations to Denmark, Camilla ,for Teamworking, Seqvenserat, Small
Country
You won over Sweden Deathrates is Facit!

Flick Schmitt
2 days ago
Pleease send this educated and sensible lady to Australia for our all our sakes!
1

Simon Edge
3 days ago
I’m not form the UK, but I’m curious…
Can the UK make these progressive policy decisions RE COVID now because they are not tethered to the EU anymore?
(I mean it looks like countries like France, Germany & Austria are going into full-on “1984” mode whereas UK is a bit of a ray of light…)
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Tanya Edwards
Tanya Edwards
3 days ago
According to travel restrictions, it seems that people still need to show passports, unvaccinated people need to quarantine for up to 10 days? Or have the restrictions not been updated with this latest brilliant news?
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Dark Knight
3 days ago
I was with her until she started advocating for the jabs
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Miriam Tuazon
2 days ago
So at the end of the broadcast, the lovely Danish expert very diplomatically stated that Danish people’s common sense indeed was common enough that people willingly changed their behaviours before further restrictions had to be instituted by the government. Much respect to the Danish people!
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Janine de Villiers
2 days ago
Yes, I believe they made the right decision. It does not sound like Denmark would make rash decisions. And I’m sure they will closely monitor anything of concern that may arise, and adjust. South Africa was ignored.
It would be great if she would have been in Germany too! Thank you both for the interview.
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Dutch Super Empath
3 days ago
Yes. Indeed. I wouldn’t go partying when people are dying on the streets.
Let people think for themselves. It makes us better people.
2

Kilikina
3 days ago (edited)
Great news! Denmark leading the World in intelligence and sanity. Thank you!

The Spitfirer
1 day ago
Happy for the Danes but such heartbreaking to watch as here in Italy restrictions are being tightened again…

didanz100
3 days ago
I would like to know what cycle threshold they are using for the PCR test
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Ajmal khan Achakzai
Ajmal khan Achakzai
3 days ago
Seems like Denmark has no politics involved in corona virus management. Very sensible and knowledgeable doctor
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Crystal Marie
Crystal Marie
3 days ago
Kudos to ! May all countries follow suit. Keep up the good fight! Freedom over fear!

Johanna Barry
3 days ago
Gosh if I was a member of the SAGE modeling group I would be feeling very embarrassed. Can we sack the lot and get some of the money paid to them back. They are either charlatans or utterly incompetent.
2

Nick L
2 days ago
A sad indictment on the modelling community in the UK who have blatantly been manipulating fear mongering to out compete each other.

John Birman
2 days ago
Covid Restrictions “Death Nell” basically Ended when the Supreme Court of the USA said: “No!”
The Decision “herd” (Heh Heh) around the world.
It was similar to that little boy crying out: “Look! The Emperor has no clothes on!”
Once again, for all Her faults the United States Of America has proven Herself.
Well done Denmark – the Viking Blood still flows!
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Amber Lee Sealey
2 days ago
They keep the door open for new variants though, don’t they! Let’s keep the fear happening
4

Bernadette LaFave
3 days ago
Great discussion !! Thank you for this informative interview …. Wonderful news about the lifting of restrictions in Denmark !!

loloqueen87
3 days ago
I’m so impressed with the type of Journalism unHerd represents.

James Fitzgerald
3 days ago
Great podcast … as always. UnHerd is one of my faves.

Marie C
1 day ago
Can Dr Camilla come to the Philippines, too? We have gorgeous beaches and unlimited fresh coconuts! Thank you, Freddie Sayers for featuring her and for your thoughtful questions.

boxsterbenz
3 days ago
love the way that you ask your questions. greatly informative. have followed you channel since mid-2020. thank you.

Alfred Reithermann
3 days ago (edited)
Bit Bloody late…And why the Jab the Kids…. disgraceful…Next time, let the Virologists, NOT the bloody “Modellers”, run things..
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KMY
2 days ago
Every journalist in America should watch and listen this guy 23 hours a day and then do their reporting for 1 hr.

recent football nirvana
3 days ago
Freedom is at stake California woke should be taken as a comedy
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DJ
3 days ago
This is just so wonderful to hear. Such a calm and measured conversation. Comparatively here in Australia, we have hysteria, fear and unhinged public servants and medical ‘experts’ driving division, kids with masks at schools, consideration of 4th boosters and that covid control will never end.

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Ken Shackleton
Ken Shackleton
1 day ago
So happy to see this. They make recommendations now, not dictates.

Makumbo Lindo
1 day ago (edited)
I´m a 66 years old person, my wife 67. We never been vaccinated for influenza and corona, we are still alive without any symptoms at all. Motion/exercise, eat good, don´t stress, drink much water, some cup of wine sometimes, that´s all. “be positive and not negative” Good luck.

B McD
3 days ago
Such great questions from Freddie.
2

Rose Navan
1 day ago
Yes! very good for such right decision. I hope many countries will be awaken to reality.

jspyrogram
3 days ago
I have not experienced any restrictions where I live. Missouri, USA
3

iPhilGood
3 days ago
“The closer the collapse of an Empire, the crazier its laws.”
– Cicero
2

Eidolon#
3 days ago (edited)
Maths computer modeling: Building<->studying<->testing ->USE.
Moddeling goal is changing behaviors: “…actually we saw that people try to change their behavior…”, Dr Camilla Holten-Møller.
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Waitaki Orchards
3 days ago
Here in New Zealand I now find myself living in the middle of a red light district surrounded by people scared of spreading disease.

Richard Mulligan
16 hours ago
Fantastic interview – thank you both. I think a major factor with Denmark and other Scandinavian countries is their transparency with how they arrive at their decisions and the governments are less inclined to bash people with a big stick to do what they want them to do. This results in much more trust in the public health system and what they are saying – i mean how often do advisors in other countries admit they have made mistakes…
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Michelle Bistrup
1 day ago
This needs to happen worldwide

AjitB07
3 days ago
They did not end them all, some still need testing
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J
3 days ago
Bravo! Done with demonstration. Proud of you Denmark.
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Angela Bobanna
Angela Bobanna
2 days ago
New variants can change this in a heartbeat. And to quote a world renowned virologist “name a virus that has become LESS virulent?”
The vaccine has made this infection less severe for most not the virus.

Baby Tho.
2 days ago
Only one mandate to enforce “those who are symptomatic like cough, sneeze, runny nose etc. must use masks”

Adrian Ryan
2 days ago
It isn’t true that Delta was more severe. Wave 2 (Northern Hemisphere winter) took the highest toll of deaths in the UK. Delta did not appear until the Summer of 2021 and in total has a much smaller death toll.

Sue Edwards
2 days ago
If only other governments would see the logic of this. If they can do this, why can’t everywhere else.

VerySeriousUser
3 days ago
After a quick glance on the mortality with covid numbers for Denmark it seems weird that they suddenly did the opposite to what they thought was so important 2 years ago. Deaths now are more than during the initial wave. I have to rewatch it because I did not really understand her argument for just getting rid of all the measures, when looking at the numbers.
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Zeb Mason
Zeb Mason
2 days ago
Epidemics don’t grow exponentially otherwise they would break the laws of Mathematics. I don’t think any modeller would assume exponential growth as none of their models would reproduce it.

JC
3 days ago
Denmark and UK are doing the right actions. Here in Australia, God help us. @Dan andrews …..
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Dennis Enkurs
Dennis Enkurs
3 days ago
You guys are using common sense with this. God bless you with wisdom and understanding

Dave Walter
3 days ago
As the British statistician George Box is alleged to have said: “All models are wrong, but some are useful.” Seems like Denmark ended up with the useful models and the UK with the same garbage modelling they have been getting since at least Mad Cow days.

Casa del Agua Gerald Webb
1 day ago
What’s interesting..is, she refers always to an epidemic rather than a pandemic!

Nina L
2 days ago
Unherd do have many high quality interviews, Freddie is great.

GlobalRoamer
3 days ago
We need this lady here in Australia
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Tom Karnes
3 days ago
Let me get this straight we can have an open society only after we flatten the curve, I want a debate with Deloris Cahill, she will flatten your head
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Gary Rockliff
3 days ago
The healthcare system runs more effectively than other developed countries, such as the U.S. and other European countries. For instance, experts attribute low mortality in Denmark to its healthcare success. Health expenditure is high in Denmark, as the country spends 10.3% of its GDP on healthcare services.9 July 2020

Lee Court
3 days ago
Always such great questions Freddie
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earthflute
21 hours ago
Case numbers should NEVER have been used to determine policy. So what, people get sick all the time from flu, pneumonia, etc.. don’t care. Treat the symptoms.
You should be interested in the impact on medical systems and of course deaths.
1

Rommel Lagera
3 days ago (edited)
I always ask in comments if there are any model that say, at least with high probability, that this pandemic will end using current vaccines with given current rate of mutations. If none, why do majority of countries continue with policies that support such non existant model. Denying unvaccinated access to public transportation or restaurant are only expensive to implement but with unclear objectives and plausible results.
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daryl foster
3 days ago
Wow, if you’re sick, stay home. How profound. Seems like that was known as common sense, pre-Covid.
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ToonLinksDair
3 days ago
What information is there about Omicron and long covid? There are 1.3 million people in the UK with long covid. Just because deaths and hospitalisations are low does not mean that you can’t end up being unwell for months on end.
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HALLELUJAH PG
HALLELUJAH PG
3 days ago
I AM VERY VERY HAPPY TO HEAR THIS GOOD NEWS:GOD BLESS DENMARK
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Kurt Groat
3 days ago
Denmark and the rest of the Western world is opening up (slowly sometimes). Meanwhile in Zero COVID China the nightmare continues.
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Scott Watrous
3 days ago
This presentation would be more than sufficient to cause a grand jury to indict the relevant British authorities. That is also the case for the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. These nations are known as the English speaking world or variously the 5 eyes nations. Saying the latter reminds me that Bibi Netanyahu in a public forum stated Israel is the 6th eye and strongly implied that Israel ranked second in terms of intelligence capabilities. And we know how Israel has proceeded. Thank you Freddy and thank you to the Danish woman. If she contacted Danish ministries for permission to be so candid thank you to those officials as well.
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tudomerda
1 day ago
I’d like to ask that Expert why there wasn’t a lockdown nor any travel restrictions for countries with Ebola ?, not once was there a international embargo on any of those countries, Ebola has a 100% mortality rate.

Ruth Longridge
3 days ago
So now it appears that the whole thing was a way to stamp authority on the situation, in readiness for next time….
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C Forester
2 days ago
Great interview. Thumbs up to both interviewer and interviewee.

Kaj Jensen
2 days ago (edited)
As a danish citizen, i just have to say, that the statistical models that has been used for political decision making in Denmark has previously been HIGHLY overshooting the consequences of dropping restrictions, -e.g. this spring when masks were put down, the models suggested a “disaster”, which did not happen. So I believe, that with the most conservative models, -we are now on the safe side. The models have also in Denmark been outrageously wrong (to the preventive side), but as also said in the interview, there are so many parameters to be entered as input to such models that they have so far been quite un-useful (but used anyways by the politicians !!!!), and one should probably rather base future political decisions based on something else, -at least until a couple of years has passed, and the models are tuned into reality.
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Tony Conrad
10 hours ago
I am glad we were exposed to Omicron in our house over Christmas. I think the immunity will be better than from a vaccine personally.
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Gustav Skans
Gustav Skans
2 days ago
Finally. They are becoming more like Sweden as we have never had lockdown or face mask mandates.

Renier du Plessis
1 day ago
Policies on Public health can not be dictated to by a single disease. Legislation for one disease will impact the outcome of other health factors.

Mel BBB
2 days ago
thank you for speaking truth! In Canada we are still being lied to, i don’t understand it
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Patricia Delaney
3 days ago
Impeccable interview, as always
1

N. David Miller
3 days ago (edited)
Is it conspiratorial to recognize that more alarming predictions profit all of those who are connected to pharmaceutical companies or benefit from their money? Come now, let’s not be coy.
4

HighOnHill
1 day ago
One possible explanation for Denmark getting it so right when the UK got it so wrong is CHANCE. Maybe they just got lucky.

Gail
3 days ago
I wish she would come over the vast Atlantic Ocean ( via the internet of course) to the USA and tell them that they are wrong with what they are doing to its citizens and that they need to use their common sense from this day forward to end this pandemic!

Richard S
3 days ago
That’s a smart human there, absolutely measured responses, won’t speak about things they aren’t informed about, doesn’t pretend there are any simple soundbite responses.
Freddy sure fished for some moments but she absolutely stayed on target.
The question Freddy should have asked is ‘How can we in England learn from you and the way your politicians and science data modellers understand epistemic humility?’
Or something like that
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Paul Badics
3 days ago
Govts in canada & other countries would never acknowledge that population could modify behaviour without laws & mandates

lis t
2 days ago
What fantastic news. Flu, people stay at home, respect your fellow companion if you sneeze or cough use your elbow or tissue. If Denmark can do this please God other countries will follow. People respect your health, exercise, diet love your body it does everything for you, time to heal

David Wensbo Posaric
3 days ago
@29:50 “There doesn’t have to be a law… people have brains…”. We would all benifit from some politicians paying greater attention to this statement.
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Dave Andrews
3 days ago
CDC, NIH, Mayo and the MSM needs to wake up and listen to this! We should be following suit.
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Norman Lorrain
21 hours ago
Are these models open source? I’m interested in how modeling works.

Cinderella De Vil
3 days ago
The CDC published a big data paper supporting natural immunity.
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John Kooy
3 days ago
Another brilliant interview done by Freddie Sayers.
My two Favourite people for today are Camilla and Freddie for sure.
I hope that everything you said today you were allowed to say for you were being very honest there about you British goon squad of modellers.

Pat Nelson
2 days ago
I believe tourists will be flocking to Denmark when the weather warms up.
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Truformable
3 days ago
I am so sceptical about this voluntarily step by Denmark ‘officials’. The statistics says taht 80% of Danish people `took the jab`, so NGO decided to give puppet reward for being good and doing all the commands.
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Studebaker
Studebaker
2 days ago
The Danish government treats its population as intelligent beings, unlike the UK Establishment which treats people as serfs.

Jonnipon
3 days ago
Freddie is the one trying to politice the issue in this interview.
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Birds Aloud
2 days ago
It is great that Denmark scrapped the legal framework which had given the government emergency/dictatorship powers. They are the first European country todo so.

Leigh Cecil
1 day ago (edited)
Wow a government that listens to sound medical advice…! Not like the scaredemic in Australia..! Thankyou for the post

Adam Marr
3 days ago
Meanwhile here in Australia we still walk around like masked zombies towards a vaccine passport cliff.
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Andrew Sheehy
3 days ago
Thank goodness for this – common sense prevails at last.
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Larry Smith
1 day ago
To flatten the curve, flatten corporate-government overreach, something that is not ever going to happen.

Reald
3 days ago
FREEDOM !
Never Comply !
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Sarah Lloyd
Sarah Lloyd
2 days ago
Denmark leaders obviously are sane. Thank You, Denmark!

Charisma Hornum-Fries
3 days ago
So it’s probably fine to get rid of all restrictions. Some of the Danish experts wants the mask to stay around as every case of covid is equal to sick days and that might damage places of work. But we will see after tomorrow.

Shan Rafnezden
3 days ago
How can she still say, ‘you never know who could get severe illness.’ We do know who can get severe illness…

Donna Collingridge
2 days ago (edited)
Yes very good news now Canada should also end all these ridiculous mandates.Over 90% of Canadians have had these shots.Congratulations.
1

Ray’s Dad
3 days ago
Yes, the British modelers are fearmongers, and Neil Ferguson is the worst of the worst.
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Anthony Lemkendorf
3 days ago
Congratulations;A blind Squirrel can occasionally run into a nut .
It’s doubtful we’ll ever be able to trust ( in Western Countries)”Government sponsored science”in quiet the same way .
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Andrew Tannenbaum
2 days ago (edited)
10:29 She contradicts her premise that omicron cases are extremely high, but mild. There is a very strong case that they are in fact what will ‘vaccinate’ the population from all variants, going forward. She claims ignorance of this topic, while pushing vaccines.

C St
3 days ago
Dr Camila and Freddie thank you great news Denmark sounds like the place to be

Daniel Hartwig
3 days ago
Good on Denmark lead the world away from lies and mandates ! All governments who took freedom away from citizens need prosecution. Soldiers die for freedom so must politicians and public servants face death for taking freedom from citizens.
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Sunny Jo
19 hours ago
Austria desperately needs to listen to this rational sensible lady!!

Patrick VB
2 days ago
Fabulous guest, great questions also, thank you!!!
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cleve barnes
3 days ago
How many of the hospitalizations in that chart are vaccinated? We need to know because in the US we are being told no vaccinated are in the hospital.
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Commenter
Commenter
3 days ago
In terms of modeling, not sure if anybody is doing better than Japan, but nice what Denmark has done. What about the travel restrictions?

Spkay
3 days ago (edited)
If only our public servants in the UK could talk to the facts like this!
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Rony Zmiri
2 days ago
Simply an amazing interview with an amazing lady!

Jackie Wakeham
3 days ago
Well done Denmark, sanity at last
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Kennedy San
2 days ago
Interesting, some businesses continuing with vax passport requirements despite no legal mandate….i think these companies would want to be careful.
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Rowena McMahon
14 hours ago
Well Denmark is the place to visit now. Beautiful country!
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Anup Kumar
3 days ago
It is interesting case rising but Denmark is ending restrictions. Why? Although the source is leery to say that. Most likely explanation is the because Omicron is almost like a vaccine at the population level. Sure some may get severe infection but largely it seems Omicron infection at population level is the path to COVID becoming endemic.
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peachmelba1000
3 days ago (edited)
This woman seems nice enough, but honestly I have lost all trust in scientists and doctors at this point. They must never again be granted such sweeping powers as they have been these last two years.
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Mark Cox
Mark Cox
3 days ago
I have only one disagreement with Camilla. I don’t think we need fear future variants. A virus has only one purpose: its own reproduction. Omicron is so successful we probably won’t see a more harmful variant. The great tragedy is that lockdowns probably slowed the progress of the virus towards this mostly harmless form. I would have thought epidemiologists knew this. Camilla’s modelling was accurate nonetheless. And now sanity returns to Denmark. (Why was SAGE so wrong? They had a different agenda.)
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Paulina Pi
2 days ago
This interview was a pleasure to watch! Thanks!

Theo Risoe
1 day ago
Excellent interview but should have asked if she received funding from the Gates Foundation.
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Steve Brown
3 days ago
It would appear that Denmark’s modelers were not under political pressure regarding maintaining a specific narrative.

Jenaya_Laila
2 days ago
Well well..the next more severe variant could, possibly lerk around the corner, but not this summer. Interesting to see if this lady is a fortune teller like so many of these presumed “experts ” are..
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Toto
3 days ago
Does it mean Danemark will be expelled from all social media except Spotify?
3

Mia Ash
2 days ago
Well Done to Wonderful/Civilized Denmark!

Larry Go
3 days ago
Excellent interview and presentation. Thank you!

Lisa Fiel
2 days ago
So level headed. Italy Germany France Austria yes come to the same conclusions we are cheering you on

mats trommler
2 days ago
Wonderful that Denmark ends all covid laws. But thats not because of vaccination. We will still will see what the sideeffects will be on the long term.

Paul Badics
3 days ago
Clearly listening to this woman the biggest difference in modelling & policy is ATTITUDE ..UK has history of hysterical models & in Canada every “expert” on the govt science council always predict 10 times worse & always press govt to keep lockdowns & mandates harsher & longer even when case & hospitalizations are down

Nick the bubble
3 days ago
Anyone told the Australian prime minister?
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MARILOU LOO
MARILOU LOO
3 days ago
Highly intelligent and really humanly caring Denmark, your the best.

JuliusSP1
3 days ago (edited)
Hi. i want to tell you all something. the vaccines have set the stage for the NEXT pandemic. I think the damage has been done b/c so many have been administered them and will continue to be administered them freely or by mandate.
4

MIJ Greco
1 day ago
Deep down inside she really full of pride at what she has modelled and really wants to say ” look and learn bitches”.

Points HealthCoaching
3 days ago
Thank God that some countries are using their brains and science

Jenaya_Laila
2 days ago
“Open Society “. I can’t believe there are people out there who decide whether we have open societies or not…

Ingrid M.
2 days ago
Thank you very much for this awesome interview.

bruce wayne
1 day ago
“Flatten the curve”? Denmark currently has the U.S. equivalent of 2.2 million cases per day. They are currently averaging the U.S. equivalent of 1000 deaths per day. And just now they decide to end the restrictions? What the hell was the past two years for??????

multitablez
3 days ago
two years too late. so now shes like “oh we model this, so we go back to normal now” she talks like a politician. says a lot without saying anything. Something is not adding up. So today to say no restrictions, but in two months will you model something else and bring back lockdowns etc.
6

Hugo Hernandez
3 days ago
Thank you Denmark! Much love and respect from México

Temper Hollow
2 days ago
With our Prime Minister hiding in a bunker (from the Freedom Convoy participants), it is unlikely that Canadians will see these welcome freedoms anytime soon. Good for Denmark.

gx toast
2 days ago
Still no mention of early treatment or even just plain old vitamin D, Zinc, etc. It is mind boggling.
1

Leigh Kelly
3 days ago
Hooray A sensible, logical country at last

Patricia Lauria
3 days ago
Yes. There is now hope for other countries.

Yav
3 days ago
That’s basically Sweden since day one of this nonsense…
5

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Sebastian Gärtner
Sebastian Gärtner
12 hours ago
Well done Denmark!
1

Chris T
2 days ago
140 studies agree – natural immunity is both more robust (broader) and longer lasting.
2

Catarina SM
3 days ago
There are effective treatments that can help to overcome the surges and be free from further vaccination.

Gilbert Tessier
1 day ago
Great interview! Great interviewer and sensational interviewee! Many thanks!

Candice W Millones
3 days ago
Meanwhile in my state (U.S.A.) kindergarteners are still required to wear masks.
1

Darko
3 days ago
Lockdown in Sweden? Where have you got this information from?
4

Jennifer Smith
2 days ago
freddie you need to do one on canadian truckers, the true unheard

Lea Nielsen
2 days ago
As a Danish citizen I must say that this whole Corona-situation from inside of Denmark looks very political. We have a parliamentary election coming up within the next year and if the Primeminister’s polling numbers were up, she would have let the restrictions continue without a blink of the eye…. It is all dirty politics!
4

Tom Leander
3 days ago
Over 11,000 people in the UK have died of Covid in the last 3 months, still around 1000 deaths per week. Which is considerably more than die on the roads each year.
1

Tanne B
1 day ago
Must admit , I am proud of my small country

John
3 days ago
Definitely correct decision every country should do the same let’s get back to living again.

Ze Tristan
3 days ago
What a beautiful person and scientist!
(And Freddie Sayers top level as usual)
1

Raph Ael
3 days ago
Incredible.
3

Cotictimmy
2 days ago (edited)
What is the view of Stephen Kinnock’s Danish politician wife on this? Labour appears generally to favoured an authoritarian approach lockdown.
1

DDUS4
2 days ago
As from the 31st of Jan, a new European law became applicable regarding clinical trials. Informed consent is required and all the restrictions are no longer applicable.
1

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Bruno Paredes
Bruno Paredes
2 days ago
it points out that modeling without approaching reality is a matter of luck.

Rhonda McKnight
2 days ago
Denmark has universal Healthcare which means healthier population than the USA to start with. Higher vaccine than USA too.

Bing X
3 days ago
So today, in Quebec. We are applying more freaking rules….
2

a.l._819
3 days ago
Seriously help Italian Gov become sane again…
13

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Elaine Brown
Elaine Brown
2 days ago
Oh this was very interesting Freddy. Yes I wish this modeller would be in charge of Sage…
1

BC
2 days ago
The UK government is committed to updating the Human Rights Act 1998. I have only heard of this on one YT channel but was able to confirm this through google. They want to “update” it to be able to over ride our rights if we’re naughty and don’t do what we’re told.

F Roy
4 hours ago
Yes it’s all coming down. You made the right decisions.

Sandra Walker
3 days ago
Integrity and honesty will go a long way!
2

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Nona
Nona
8 hours ago
The last third of the interview is really interesting in terms of the specifics.
1

Beverley Saxophone
3 days ago
One thing you didn’t touch was the huge resistance to government policies led by Mads Palsvig who forced their hand in a number of important decisions. It would be interesting to see you interviewing him to hear another side of the story.
5

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StandAloneState
StandAloneState
3 days ago
Denmark… please openly advocate for other countries to drop their mandates. We desperately need more support
1

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Edward McLaughlin
Edward McLaughlin
3 days ago
Flatten the curve my fuckin arse.
13

wetchickenproduction
2 days ago
That’s what good leadership looks like!
1

Lynda Gordon
3 days ago
Excellent news for Dr James and all health care workers. NZ

Guyzer
1 day ago
Detached from political modelling committee…..amazing, mathematical modelling!!

David Ligon
1 day ago
Thank you. Another excellent interview.

wonderland78
2 days ago
Will this affect the vaccine makers’ profits?
1

Ralph Reilly
2 days ago
Lol. There was no curve to flatten.
3

Candice
3 days ago
Denmark and Mexico: two countries with common sense.

shantibel
3 days ago
Thanks for this marvelous news. Great interview.

Cristiano Holtz
2 hours ago
Great ! Hopefully other European countries will follow ! Our bodies belong to us, it’s no government property ! We decide what to take …or not…

Andrea Lindsay
2 days ago
Time for good common sense. People don’t need mandates, they have a God given rights.

Kika Nika
2 days ago
Dear people, what can I do and how to stop this horror. My 11-year-old daughter wants to get vaccinated, her father persuades her, society forces her, and she almost died of anaphylactic shock because she is allergic to some medications. What a world this is! I no longer see the meaning of life.

Harriet brown
3 days ago
thank you, beautiful people of good will, for this massage
5

Martin Clausen
3 days ago
The kind words are appreciated, and while we are happy to flood the Premier League with Danish players, Mrs. Holten-Møller is not for sale.

Gill Gimberg
3 days ago
Ah Freddie that made me laugh. Old Fergie is bonkers, I reckon. And being South African, I have a lot of experience with those who are bonkers.
2

Iain Benson
2 days ago
Australia needs to wake up! Western. Australia needs Commonwealth laws to override its Premier’s power grabs…

Thomas Schinkel
3 days ago
Freddie, you’re the best,
2

Dragon’s Red
3 days ago
Still late. None of this should have taken place after the first 2 months in 2020. We knew it was low risk for the majority by then.
1

Cosas de Tesla
3 days ago
Best news ever
3

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Killian potworoska
Killian potworoska
2 days ago
Top interview Freddie that’s journalism!

David Rogers
2 days ago (edited)
Since she keeps pushing the nonsense that the injections are safe and effective she obviously hasn’t got around yet to modelling the damage caused already by the injections.
3

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Martin Stewart
Martin Stewart
2 days ago
Great sensible move by Danés, great to be liberated

DJ NV
3 days ago
Sad that in the US the modelers are so influenced by political pressure. They wouldn’t even be selected or heard by the CDC or current administration if they shared data antithetical to their political ideologies.
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Nina L
2 days ago (edited)
This Danish woman still think that the result of not hospitalization is because of the vaccine, not because of the nature evolution of the virus, then how do you explain the situation in South Africa. during the Delta wave, there were a lot of hospitalization, but during the Omicron wave, not many hospitalization any more, and they have very low vaccination rate in South Africa.
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2

Lydia Malinovic
2 days ago
it would be interesting to investigate freedom convoy in Canada and USA

OneLine
2 days ago (edited)
Give her the upstanding Unherd medal.

J G
3 days ago
THE SACRIFICE OF GOD: There is only one God, God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. One God, three parts. Humans have a soul, spirit and body. One person, three parts.
The Bible says that we are all sinners.
As it is written: There is none righteous no not one. Romans 3:10
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23
But we are all as an unclean thing and all our righteousness are as filthy rags. Isaiah 64:6
For the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23(the word “death” in this verse means eternal separation, from God in hell).
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.Isaiah 1:18
Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and that He was buried and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures.1CORINTHIANS 15:3-8
In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:14
For by grace ye are saved, through faith; and not of yourselves
it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vein. Galatians 2:21
If you would like to receive Jesus as your Savior. Realize that you are a hopeless sinner and trust in Jesus and only Jesus to save you.
You can say a prayer expression your gratitude, sorrow for sins etc. but remember your prayer doesn’t save you.
Your trust in Jesus and what He did for you on the cross, is what saves you.
The moment you trust in Jesus and only Jesus, you are saved.
After people get saved they get baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
It is for believers only and has nothing to do with your salvation.
Read more
5

Martin Lund
3 days ago
US/UK Modeler produces a result. Politician demands that it be changed/altered to fit his/her narrative. There is the variable that went wrong.

Rita Antonio
3 days ago
perhaps Geert Von Bossche was right and that’s why ended up with delta. modellers throughout the pandemic have been off by several orders of magnitude on more than one occasion proving that more data doesn’t mean better decisions.

Paul Badics
3 days ago
Also in canada unlike Uk & denmark & others that just ended most or all restrictions when they do decide to loosen restrictions they spread it out over 2 months “abundance of caution”

Silvia Spampinato
2 days ago (edited)
I envy the people of Denmark. Having a government and scientists that can be trusted must be beautiful. In Italy, thank to our government, scientists and especially Media, it’s complete hysteria.

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Melusine
Melusine
3 days ago
Hmmm. So letting it rip in Australia is causing massive pressure on our health system, they’ve had to stop most elective surgery …

Marielle Ladt
2 days ago
Why did we start using models to organize the regulations about Covid. ? When that modelling started. ?
So if I understand correctly the covid crisis has been dictated with those models? This is frightening when we see the disastrous
results around the world. This information is essential to understand what happen. Besides the conflict of interest and the
political connection with labs etc we can add the influence of the mathematical model. This is fascinating to observe the
functioning of our political, + lobbying+ those models in question.
Thank you for helping us to understand.
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John James
2 days ago
Thank God for Sanity and true Science. God bless UK, Denmark , Japan and South Africa.

Careful Consumer
1 day ago
I hope the host has Dr Moller on again in 1-2 months for more follow up. Thanks.
1

Hameerudin Zawawi
2 days ago
This video made me subscribe. Thank you Unherd and Dr Camilla!
1

Paulina Pi
2 days ago (edited)
Models need to be detailed to age and risk groups, vaccinated and unvaccinated vs (the tight not broad) age groups. Denmark has system info on who how many for example have diabetes or prediabetes, other conditions etc. . UK seems not to follow or provide the numbers correctly. Or even collect the health data. For example most UK people with clear pre-diabetes I’ve met had no clue they had insulin resistance.
If a country has the entire healthcare in a social system (private and public) it’s easier for the gov to access the correct statistics/data.
Without correct and critically narrowed down data even the most perfect model won’t work.
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Artkido Lee
2 days ago
She’s firm n collected, won’t let anyone put words in her mouth

Haridas991
3 days ago
Well done Denmark. May God protect the Danish people for their guts to stand up to the virus. May the rest of the world follow suit. Amen

Mark McLetchie
1 day ago
The difference is that Denmark used the data of South African scientists. UK thought they knew better than “the colonies”.

Alida van Eeden
18 hours ago
Well done hope SouthAfrica will follow soon watching from SouthAfrica
1

Leonard Checchio
3 days ago
Wonderful news Bravo Denmark putting freedom and reason ahead of fear.

View reply
Bitcoin FightClub
Bitcoin FightClub
1 day ago
All of these worldwide Call kyle experts need to apologize for getting it wrong

Erast Van Doren
2 days ago
So, in summary: they got hospitalization right despite the facts that the uncertainties are at least 5 times larger, and the fact that they used omicron severity 5 times the real value. So in fact, they just got lucky. And this should be a good modelling?

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Gulnar Kulybekova
3 days ago
What I hear here that modeling group were focused only and exclusively on vaccines.
2

Fai BigHeart
2 days ago
Well, I am not an scientist but I like a way they think heading, that makes them special from us non scientist. For this lady, she is In a group of realistic scientist not influenced by politics, funder and definitely they aren’t a vaccine salesman

eslinc
2 hours ago
Greetings, Mr Sayers. I subscribed to your channel after watching this episode.

praisebewibble
2 days ago
About time, now the rest of the sane world should follow.
1

Darwin Maisner
3 days ago
It’s a bit silly to compare the two countries. You can predict what’s going to happen in Denmark because it’s predictable. The UK isn’t. Our mathematicians forgot to take into account that a million twats would be marching in the middle of a pandemic over racist cheese on toast regulations.

Not So Obscure
1 day ago
This makes no sense! Isn’t asymptomatic people still able to expose another person these people take away all confidence in their reasoning

Ami Kailua
2 days ago
Take a bow Denmark … you deserve kudos!

Tyra Masters-Heinrichs
2 days ago
Thank you, excellent interview. Take care from Manitoba, Canada

joop trumesant
3 days ago (edited)
Can this Chief Modelling please be lent to the Netherlands, they have a bunch of clowns called RIVM who just can’t count and the lockdown won’t stop, help!

笔名
2 days ago
If your govt values and champions transparency and avoid politicizing “science”, then your administrators will not consider the extra work of having to present with a negative bias. Fix your govt before your think of getting better modellers. If the top is crooked, the bottom will be slanted.

iMay
1 day ago
No to covid vaccine mandate
So help us God
1

benjamin franzuela
1 day ago
Great interview. Well discussed. Thank you from the Philippines.

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SUBSTEREO
SUBSTEREO
3 days ago
This is absolutely wonderful. So peoud to be Danish. Feeling very red and white right now

Rui Martins
2 days ago
The New Zealand government needs to watch this video!

Paul Veðrafjǫrðr
2 days ago
Impressive woman with a good head on her shoulders Love you Denmark!

james lynch
2 days ago
THANK YOU , AT LAST SOME ONE WITH COMMON SENSE.

Inana
3 days ago
Great work, Freddie
1

Celestial Teapot
3 days ago
The words “liberated” and “panicked” are ideologically loaded in this context.

Nic Andela
2 days ago
I think you need to look for NEW modellers in the UK, how long are you going to rely on the same faulty department, it’s been dismal.
1

Carol Leota
3 days ago
WELL DONE. WOW. HERE IN NZ adern JUST GIVE THE WHOLE COUTRY A RED LIGHT. ENJOY YOUR FREEDOM. DENMARK YOU SHOULD HAVE A MEMORIAL DAY FOR THIS. I’M HAPPY FOR U.LOVE U ALL.
1

raspberry treacle
3 days ago
Their institutions seem to be politically neutral how refreshing.

mtebor
2 days ago
And in the USA some states still have mask mandates and vax mandates if you want to work. Some entertainment venues and bars require to show your papers.

Diana Paloma
20 hours ago
Great interview. Thank you.

Scott Silburn
6 hours ago
WELL DONE DENMARK!!!
1

Flight Simulator Lessons
1 day ago
Hoping the New Zealand government can come to its senses and follow Denmark’s example as we are still living under such restrictive mandates, masks, vaccination passes!

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Hani Serhan
Hani Serhan
2 days ago
I suggest you bring on someone who’s extremely pro mandates and challenge their opinions and views
. They are after all opinions and not facts.

Lovely Linda
2 days ago
Thanks god for country’s like these leading the way!!!! Here in America we aren’t going to be so lucky with good old BRANDON at the controls!!!
Good for you!!!!

Gabriele Gaven
2 days ago
Common Sense prevails! also Democracy is there and also Honesty and more….meaning Respect etc.

Fuhgeddaboudit
2 days ago
Anyone that miss useless COVID mandates is welcome to swap places with me and exist in Australia while I live i Denmark!

Kathy Connolly
1 day ago
Wonderful. She is fully transparent.

Karina Bloom
4 hours ago
We need to keep the politics out if the science in every country

Luh Ariyadi Wangga Seruni
3 days ago
I’m whitnessing danish’s common sense, nice and deligent people.

DayDreamer
2 days ago
I’m overwhelmed by logic & common sense. Lol.. feels like magic

funkdoubt1
1 day ago
Denmark is not part of the International community in the way that the UK, is. Its geographic location, population control, Role in Finance, stock markets placement, historical racial make up and or role in empire. The uK and US have used this Covid opportunity and period surely, to secure new terms for mass migration and labor conditions for both industry and on a societal level. The African continent has designed plans for its own trade deals and partnerships, at the same time as NAFtA and T TIP.
This is the reason for the focus on ‘ multi culturalism ‘, the legal ability to mobilise large scale economic migration (an already fading but once popular sociological-media term)
and the way in which it is and has been handled, at gov level.
Im second gen foreigner in London and can plainly see that intention and implementation. The gay rights and LgBtQ communities have been given upward thrust in their plight at the same time as the rest of the facade. Creating yet more feigned corporate empathy, gov level intervention and legal will thrown in its direction. yet another division and crack in society whilst manoeuvring everyone closer to the noose and money making guillotine.
The little guy, girl or other identifier stand little to no chance. This Johnson govt have stuck to ideas of punishing us in the uk. Opted to hit us over talking to us. Shun us and remove our anity, literally in law, to make us , their enemy. Then encouraged and torched our chances of coming together, using the division to climb down further in to the cracks.
Never ever forget what side the politicians took when your basic human rights were up for sake and grabs. What they sold and took uo against you, the electorate. And held on to until the bitter end because your health and freedoms were merely chips, negotiated at the casinos of their choice.
Had new light not forced its way in, these guys were voting against your freedoms being upheld
Never, ever trust governmemt.
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Freedom Always
3 days ago
WAY TO GO DENMARK
1

H H
3 days ago
I’m moving. I can’t handle the tyranny in my country, it’s unfortunate
2

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tropolite
tropolite
2 days ago (edited)
Because we know Ferguson has historically been x10 fold on ALL his modelling. His models are really off big time.
Look at ALL of the previous models he’s constructed. A total loss. Bad, and total pessimistic view. Models must also reflect real world information. Omicron in Denmark is regarded totally different to that which Ferguson shunned as far less threatening but just infectious.
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Jack steiner
2 days ago
Perhaps, you should ask her whether the Gates Foundation paid for her statistical modelling, as they paid for the English ones…

Old Seer
3 days ago
It could be—could be, that Denmark has no tyrants.

Emily Williams
2 days ago
Perhaps the PR system helps create less of an attacking type of politics without so much tribalism instead looking at the data?

Jimothy Araian
3 days ago
Here in NZ it will be illegal for me to continue working in 2 weeks without a booster despite my last shot only 4 months ago
2

Stephen Morrell
2 days ago
It’s not a matter of modeller training. It’s more a matter of Anglo-academic public health ‘culture’: a long ‘tradition’ of elevating uncertainties around RCTs and Cochrane meta-analytic ‘evidence’, etc, to the extent of erecting elaborate arguments and scenarios, without any evidence in themselves, to negate actual evidence that’s not absolutely ‘perfect’. This has neutered the most ‘learned’ public health academics’ ability to see the forest for the trees, all the more so as they seek to earn academic kudos for perceiving or inventing new plausibly ‘fatal’ flaws and biases in studies they review. Very rarely to these ‘glass-half-empty’ purists attempt to quantify the biases and flaws they have supposedly detected.
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gerafina li
1 day ago
Maybe we should look into the relationship between governments and pharmaceutical companies to be able to predict accurately which country will have panicked based models and drastic measures, and which ones won’t.

Guy Pierce
3 days ago
They were never “laws” but none the less great news.

Hilltron eye
3 days ago
Greetings from Poland! To everyone, but special greetings for Canada. Get your freedom get your life in your hands!!!! Greetings and God bless all

J C
2 days ago
what about the changes happening for human rights? will they drop that? and drop all restrictions brought in for the common cold? Also NHSx…. what is that about, not health
2

Brad Stokes
3 days ago
Hope BC in Canada makes this move soon as well

First name Last name
3 days ago
Immunity is all that’s here as now
Thanks for this

How the world works
3 days ago
Just admit that you don’t know everything and you can be wrong about plenty of things. This is what ALL scientists should do and stop forcing people to do something detrimental to them on the long run based on your obsession with thinking that you are right all the time or at least most of the time. That is simply not true. No one is right all the time so stop acting like it.
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Tracey Google Serviced
3 days ago
Brilliant News! Brilliant work Freddie!

Richard K
39 minutes ago
Are the people supposed to be thankful for getting their freedoms back? They should never have taken them away in the first instance. A lot of people are coming out trying to cover their asses but we remember what you did.

G Hersh
2 days ago
Love this video. Excellent information. Love from USA.

Nic Andela
2 days ago
love it, normality, could not have come fast enough

quantumac
45 minutes ago
Justin Trudeau would do himself a favor if he paid attention to this. Instead, I expect he will double-down on his country’s mandates, but I would like to be wrong.

Lola Saint
3 days ago
Logical reporting, thank you !1

Jack steiner
2 days ago
Countries spent hundreds of billions of dollars on this pandemic. Can we trace and independently account for these funds? Is it possible, that among other things, this pandemic was used to funnel money to a WEF or UN account?

Mac Franks
2 days ago
When people quit getting boosters, if that happens, there may be another wave of infection with Omicron.

Rick Knight
3 days ago
Well done Freddie

All Seeing Eye
1 day ago
And to think here in the UK they have the temerity to bang on about our need to ‘listen to the experts’. By the look of it, our ‘experts’ are not very expert……

northrockboy
3 days ago
what happened to all the pandemic preparation manuals developed over many years to deal with future pandemics ?

Garry Holmes
3 days ago
Don’t just think THEIR plan has gone away. Keep your head on a swivel & stay awake.
1

anne marie
2 days ago
EXCELLENT !!!! LOVE YOUR SHOW

Selina F
2 days ago
Great conversation, thank you

Thu Vu
3 days ago
We’ve been suffered for 2 years enough is enough
2

Chris T
2 days ago
As always…. GO FREDDY!

Orgone Warrior
3 days ago
look at the reuters statistics, denmark has 112 percent vaccinated, sweden only has 93 percent, estimated +10 percent in 33 days…
they want everyone modified
2

Carlito Molina
2 days ago
Praise the Lord…
Denmark is waking up from reality…

sukhmanicambridge
3 days ago (edited)
love this dr UPDATING THE MODELS seems also to have been something UK missed out on, feedback loop from REAL WORLD local data.

MsChitterchat
1 day ago
While this is good news, I still don’t like the level of control these people have.

Becky Winchester
2 days ago
Way ta go you guys !love from Canada

Harry Delmar
3 days ago
Denmark flattened fuckall! The “pandemic” went away because it has now for the first time in 2 years the old normal/sanity has been allowed to resume.
2

Aunty Linda
2 days ago
It’s about time! Omicron and its descendants are not as serious as Delta. It’s only common sense to now protect the most vulnerable.

Åke Johansson
3 days ago
Love you guys of Demark keep fighting folks

Datahound
2 days ago (edited)
Praying it’s just not a interim decision on the way to another new normal .

Emma Batan
2 days ago
Excellent video!!!! Thanks so much ! CONTINUE!!!!
1

jack dempsey
3 days ago
Goddamn right they did make the right call.
1

Stephen A
3 days ago
DW just said all this is misinformation!! Love it!!!

M Harper
3 days ago
Excellent questions! No kidding we all want to fire our modellers!

Tricia Jones
2 days ago
He said people actually have common sense without a law lol.
1

金志誠
1 day ago
Let’s wait and see how Denmark’s plan works in two months.

Matthew Mentz
2 days ago
It seems to me you never never address vaccine injury with any of your interviews, do you think this is something irrelevant?
1

Tristan Solero
3 days ago
Tyllykke Camilla. Thank you Danes. Great interview Freddie. Well done

Paola Amato Sabatelli
2 days ago
This is a true democracy!! Denmark

Blittle Ing
3 days ago
Fantastic interview!
1

Elfreda Wright
3 days ago
Well done, Denmark!

View reply
Dutch Frisian mud digger.
Dutch Frisian mud digger.
2 days ago
Still a litle lockdown and 3G in the Netherlands…….. there are new rules to come
1

Black Knight
3 days ago (edited)
As Australia call for 3rd and 4th boosters!
Worlds gone mad
1

Marleen Codougan
3 days ago
Soon the World will regain normalcy again. I hope that America will follow these very smart Countries.
1

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dinola 326
dinola 326
1 day ago
Denmark: Freedom day. Germany: All in prison!

Rhodian Deetlefs
2 days ago
Great interview!

colly beans
1 day ago
Ended all Covid laws? Then why are Denmark still going ahead with the Vaccine Passports??

Tikhon Osipov
3 days ago
Thank you for this one!

Peteyz Zed
3 days ago (edited)
Domino effect will happen and other countries will follow. Thanks for whoever released it
1

Leunis van de Wege
3 days ago
The more dramatic the model, the more important the virologist. That’s the weak spot of modelling.
2

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Juby To
Juby To
2 days ago
Brilliant work!

Eemes1000
2 days ago
Nothing is rotten in the state of Denmark!

Paul Verheyden
1 day ago
for the same projection at 18:35 we in the netherlands were in lockdown from just before kristmas

Andrea Re
3 days ago (edited)
Freddie, where do you see in the UK the government saying one thing and the opposition another. They talk in unison here (unless you talk about the REAL opposition, which is the Tory party itself).
12:48
1

F S
2 days ago
great interview, cheers!
1

Alison Borchers
3 days ago
They’re all just caving to unrelenting pressure from business – greedily desperate to try to crank up their economies. I hope the people see through it and look after themselves. The thing with covid is that, though it might be mild for most people, it might kill you… Good luck Danes!
1

Carmen Ionescu
2 days ago (edited)
Are you complaining in UK? Look what happens in France
Thank you UnHerd , excellent.
1

Murilo Borges
19 hours ago
Just missed she talk a little more about natural imunity…i know Denamrk is a highly vaccinated country, but we are seeing that with omicron they do not protect that much…She always keeps praising vaccines, but we should praise the natural imunity that this variant, wich is milder than others,is bringing to people.
1

View reply
andreacostanza
andreacostanza
1 day ago
Great Freddie, thankYou!!

Susan Creed
3 days ago
How can anyone say “flatten the curve” with a straight face?
2

four tails
3 days ago
Common sense prevails in Denmark ..let’s hope more countries will follow suite

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Vilma Cordero
1 day ago
Silly question if it is a good time to get exposed. She is saying people are now expected to act responsibly to protect themselves.
People die everyday. It is a part if life.

r ar
3 days ago (edited)
Re exponential growth — this is only a reasonable approximation for the early phases of growth when the environment is open & unrestrained. After some time there is environmental response & push-back, or the growth fuel diminishes.
(E.g. an exponential growth of locusts leads to environmental push-back in the form of predators responding to the increased food supply and reducing the locusts; or in an explosion the early exponential expansion ends when the explosive fuel runs out or gets blown away.)
For a more realistic model of growth start with the
“Logistic_function” on Wikipedia (can’t post link)
— can’t expect policy-makers or ideological narratives to understand mathematics, but they could be better informed and then maybe “Follow the Science”.
Be careful who you trust!
Read more

d8ta scientist
2 days ago
Excellent questions!

Environmental Coffeehouse
2 days ago
Interview Vincent Racaniello- Virologist in NYC. He can definitely fill you in on the virus, vaccines & mitigation. Microbe TV

La Fleur Productions
2 days ago
So tactful all round!

Y K
3 days ago
Is it open for both vaccinated and unvaccinated?
2

Nelly Delcheva
3 days ago
Freddie is the best
1

Emma Batan
2 days ago
Excellent video!!!! Thanks so much ! CONTINUE!!!!

Joe Bueno
1 day ago
That is what you can call a smart government

ab bbb
3 days ago
It all goes down to probability: the less CoViD regulation and restriction, the more the probability of contamination, the more contaminated individual the higher the risk of mutation and the higher the risk of mutation, the higher the probabilty of a highly infectious fatal mutation killing most of the population. But this is maybe the underlying plan the lesser the population, the lesser the number of contact, and therefore the virus will naturally die lacking hosts.
Read more

View 2 replies

Iain Benson
2 days ago
SAGE needs to be shelved. It has demonstrated incompetence…..

Jip Meijer
2 days ago
Finally a real scientist! Where are the other ones?

Kaze Jah
3 days ago
What an intelligent, pleasant woman!!!

Idea Window
2 days ago
The map is not the terrain, models are not reality and data is not truth.
1

Bushveld Kid
2 days ago
Fantastic to hear!

N Bach
1 day ago
Did everyone read “The real Anthony Fauci ” by Robert F. Kennedy Jr?
Must read
1

Spencer Brown
1 day ago
Fricken LOVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Creanga
1 day ago
Denmark be blessed!

venividi credi
2 days ago (edited)
How much compensation did they give that poor footballer whose career they nearly destroyed with their nonsense.. and how much is being proposed for us lesser types in a not dissimilar boat

Ward Bray
1 day ago
An impressive person.

Teri Nunes
2 days ago
Denmark the only country that will be keeping the same government

Pat Hacker
2 days ago
Ferguson is still given credence? He is always far off the mark.

Mare S
3 days ago
Truth prevails!

Ged of Gont
3 days ago
It wasn’t the entire world that went mad then.
I bet Prof Ferguson has a wax figurine of this lady – and a very large supply of needles.
2

codica666
2 days ago
There’s one word missing in this discussion: luck. Models are called models because they are not reality. Denmark is only ahead of the curve until their model screws up. Then the whole discussion starts over: how could this happen? Whoever expects there to be the one “correct model” or “the right policies” just ignores the nature of reality.
Read more

ThomasSherrod
3 days ago
Discrepancies in the numbers…? How can this be?!
1

Jessica
3 days ago
Brilliant work

TS L
3 days ago
Why is it Florida has stayed open the whole time? Or stayed open for a longer time?

Jenaya_Laila
2 days ago
She is completely misinformed regarding natural immunity and unvaxxed people!

First name Last name
3 days ago
It’s a new day for the whole

2

Dirtpatcheaven
3 days ago
WOW!!!

Lil Crafty Nook
3 days ago
Germ vs terrain. If you aren’t healthy you tend to catch everything.

D K
3 days ago
British modellers are too academic. University staff are experts but not experts in how the world really works.
1

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Trevelina Delmar
Trevelina Delmar
13 hours ago
So can we travel there without having to show “the Great Reset”/aka VAx Pass?

stepmback
3 days ago
One critical thing. 80% of the Denmark population is fully vaccinated. If 80% of US was fully vaccinated it would be a miracle…. instead we are 40%. So when someone gets sick in Denmark they are more than likely vaccinated and are much less likely to go to hospital. Not the case in the US.
2

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The Artificial Society
The Artificial Society
2 days ago
Flattening the curve, what BS. None of the half baked measures they did accomplished anything.

Angeline Briscoe-Sperling
1 day ago
Ireland is free and has been for weeks.

Nick Ush
3 days ago
Beautiful mind, beautiful responses …… beautiful eyes….

Miss Cameroon
1 day ago
Bravo Denmark!

Jarmila Xymena Gorna
2 days ago
Thank you Freddie and Kamila

Slavica X
2 days ago
Have you seen the truck and car convoys in Canada..Australia and many more countries. It’s huge!

Daniel Shaw
3 days ago
Why don’t you get John Campbell on? The two of you could take down the whole house of cards. Cheers from the Colonies.

Gitte Bruun
3 days ago
Very good Work Finally

David Flusin
2 days ago
How many times does Pr. Fergusson need to be dramatically wrong before he becomes irrelevant?

aztlanplay
3 days ago
What a rational reasonable society.

View reply
Thien
Thien
3 days ago (edited)
Why isn’t Denmark following the science (gasp)? How dare they!

JonJonBoi
2 days ago
Its not just Denmark that is the only country that got rid of all covid laws or most covid laws. Most countries around the world are honestly mostly back to normal. Countries like Poland, Sweden, Russia, Hungary, Turkey, Czech Republic and Greece for example mostly got rid of their covid laws including mask mandates and have no vaccine mandates as well. Its mostly America and some countries especially in the Anglosphere and the Philippines that have extreme covid laws
Read more

Wayne Bateman
1 day ago
Only isolate if you have symptoms like you should do with the flu, but of course you should be vaccinated against both.

View 2 replies

mark hughes
16 hours ago (edited)
5:28
‘This pandemic’? Do not published state statistics for Britain say that over the last two years general mortality has decreased by 0.2%? A bit difficult to stuff a ‘pandemic’ in there? ‘World modelling’ – aye there’s the rub! Check out Russell Brand ‘Here we go again’ – a telling story of high finance!
Read more

iozsa tabita
3 days ago
AMAZING!

Mr. Mcgoo
2 days ago (edited)
Sane thinking in what is becoming an insane world. Surprised Bernie doesn’t come around
1

Jennifer Neumann
3 days ago
God Bless Denmark. Stay free.

View 2 replies
Ruzhyn, Ukraine: in the middle of nowhere
Ruzhyn, Ukraine: in the middle of nowhere
2 days ago
Why don’t they start hunting ghosts or flattening shadows?

GC
2 days ago (edited)
If we end up with a One World Government ….. can we have the Danes in charge of health…Brits run the footie ?

italo Souza
3 days ago
Excelente

Beatrice Lutchmiah
2 days ago
Denmark us doing what’s right

Happy
3 days ago
Brilliant

Daniel James
3 days ago
You’re a beautiful man Freddie

Vestland
2 days ago
I live in a city in Norway. I never ever wear a mask. I never got any of the wax. Yet I never got Covid! Care to explain?

Rise of the Infinite
1 day ago

Npc I’m knot
7 hours ago
denmark.. please please shame canada and america and australia.. it’s time to end this..
1

ClassifiE.D.
3 days ago
Yesss beautiful

Misti Colon
2 days ago
Premature action. New variants which could be more severe may come and people will not want to go from freedoms to restrictions again. We all hope Omicron antibodies in the majority of the population can help with herd immunity. Still too soon.

David De Ridder
3 days ago
True scientist, if you ask me!
1

Chris Knight
22 hours ago (edited)
Weird. Danish death rate the same as the peak of their first wave and rising, their infection rate not yet definitely peaked. Midwinter. I hope they know what they are doing! Population size is not everything, population density and localized population densities in conurbations makes huge differences in rates of infection of communicable diseases.
Read more

mark hughes
16 hours ago
10:30
Well meaning but a technocrat? – what exactly is the balance between those who – in any particular State – have died of the virus (as opposed to those with the virus) – and those who have died shortly after vaccination?

NileQueen
3 days ago
I would LOVE to have an Unherd bumper sticker. How can I get one? Thanks, Joanne

vaccinefraud
1 day ago
We don’t need anyone to ‘explain’ any of this, let alone with Math.
The true FACT CHECKERS exposed ALL of the lies so there is no ability for them to hide behind their lies and the lawsuits to follow. Will all of the mink get a letter of apology? Oh, wait… they’re all ded.

unclejake154
3 days ago
Tak Danemark! Well done!

Betsy Ulbrich
2 days ago
Variants, variants, variants….no test exists for these variants….did any of them ever exist?

raspel1960
23 hours ago
the very truth is that every free will human being
has to defend and clear the own territory …
free of foreign intruders, overcomers, mandatorists,
set zero’ers, robbers, inflaters, rapers, blackmailers,
kings of the road, squatters.
Do organize that free’s to help and support each other
Read more

Benjamin de Leeuw
1 day ago
So this is what an honest expert sounds like. Guess she didn’t get the memo from Klaus Schwab. Must have landed in the Spam folder. Doh!

happy joyjoy
3 days ago
the wheels are falling off the scandemic quicker than the titan sinking.
1

vehbi emre kesim
3 days ago (edited)
Congratulations Denmark. we are still living with fascism in Germany.
1

Karl D. Marx
2 days ago
Freddie … Don’t be a selfish bastard … This lady should go to Germany … No that I expect Karl Lauterbach to really understand what Camilla Holten-Møller is saying … but we should give it a shot.
Thanks for another great interview!!!

Robert Hart
3 days ago
Now it’s time to bring mandate tyrants to task
1

Monti Tate
2 days ago
A good interview, and we’ll done.

hoonosewut4
3 days ago
A country with people in charge who have COMMON SENSE??????????Please come and run Canada!!
1

View reply
Christi P
Christi P
2 days ago
So they’re NOT offering ANY TREATMENT of ANY KIND……THATS WHY!

will liam
2 days ago
Natural immunity still shunned by authorities
1

soredem
2 days ago
There’s always the push for vaccines

Sue Williams
19 hours ago
What does Denmark think of the PM here in the UK ?

w ss
2 days ago
Actually the Swedes were first to freedom through science and logic.

soredem
3 days ago
I wish that was the case in California, they have a new variant ….

Don Tonno Con Fagioli
2 days ago
Even her ‘reasonable’ comments are still all bollocks.
1

K L
6 hours ago
What about Mandatory Vaccinations? Please let us know what the Vaccination and passport issue is like. From Canada where we are fighting for FREEDOM.
1

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sorsocksfake
sorsocksfake
2 days ago
Basing your plans on facts and math? Strange concept. Everyone (at least in politics) knows you have to do it the other way around.
Clearly more evidence that Denmark is not a real country

jir1969
3 days ago
Professor Neil Ferguson and SAGE should take note.
1

dablackangel
3 days ago
I guess I’m going to Denmark then

DDUS4
2 days ago
BA2 is growing fast in the UK too.

Ubiquitary
3 days ago
Does she deserve credit because she came to her senses twenty months after us non-experts? Sorry, she was clearly part of the authoritarian gang for too long.
2

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Mari A
Mari A
1 day ago
I’m off to Denmark!

Ivan Baric
3 days ago
HOW REFRESHING . I AM NOT ALONE . GROWN UP AT WORK , back in the cupboard
with the snowflakes . Respect …. Sydney AUST.

Anita Berendsen
2 days ago
It’s not ended.
You still can’t go there without a damnd useless test!!!!
1

Peteyz Zed
3 days ago
I wish I could be a UK modeller, be crap and keep getting paid

Paul Badics
3 days ago
I canada they have said have to follow “worst cass models”
1

Trish Abbott
3 days ago
Love to Denmark.

Fish Mud
3 days ago
Love this channel but the amount of ads drive me crazy! Especially when I’m cooking

View 2 replies

Stephen A
3 days ago
Monoclonal vaccines are to blame of the failure of the vaccines. Polyclonal natural immunity or that from sinovac is better at protecting from more variants. Will it for all future one? UNKNOWN

Karen Young
2 days ago
An actual expert. Not Sage. How refreshing.

tule fogger
1 day ago
excellent interview

Sergi Yavorski
2 days ago
We need Camilla to replace Fauci here in the US

Patrick Bateman
3 days ago
Please come to Australia. Our modelers are broken…

Dysjoint
2 days ago
Send her and her team to New Zealand please!

marco polo
2 days ago
Go Denmark !!! We love u!
1

Yin Yang
2 days ago
amazing….at last some common sense!!
1

Antonio Da Rosa Martínez
1 day ago
Esta señora dice que los ciudadanos daneses tienen toda la confianza en sus políticos y autoridades sanitarias y todos los partidos han apoyado al gobierno. : . Nosotros también.

cchione
3 days ago
What is going on with the US??? Cases, not mild? Deaths

Arnold Attard
1 day ago
SPEAKS BETTER ENGLISH THAN MANY NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKERS.

Booniedog Chamorru
3 days ago (edited)
This is how to conduct
interview.
1

Suzanne Harry
2 days ago
yes good, But they are enforcing the Digital ID hard for total control.

Dan AWC
2 days ago
No questions about ivermectin?
What would happen if the higher susceptible people in the population would taken ivermectin daily?
Mmmm I wonder. Japanese dr’s started prescribing April 15, 12 days later cases were so so low and they still are very low.
Mmmmm???
Read more

james duncan
2 days ago
Came to there senses at last
1

Neil Fitzsimmons
3 days ago
Funny how you don’t hear about this on msm.
1

Nadia Darwish
3 days ago
I admire this channel

K H
3 days ago
FFS just give sick people the cheap therapeutic drugs that work.
1

keto3883
2 days ago (edited)
2mio cases a day in a 56mio country. how the fuck would that even possible ? there would be some insane interactions needed to make that realistic. looks like math theory vs real world case. ignore people interact in circles and just make it random etc. just guessing but thats a frequent problem.

in
3 days ago
Data beyond opinons doesn’t that get politics out of the way, but can data be corrupted, overall am trusting 1st commandment.
Thank you

Backspin66
2 days ago
That’s my type of woman. Congrats Denmark.

tonyjajou
2 days ago
I agree with you I hope she can come to NewZealand

Vilma Cordero
1 day ago
No longer living in fear..
Congratulations

michael bradley
2 days ago
Why is he asking medical questions from a modeller?
1

James Coffey
3 days ago
Denmark didn’t make a model, they just looked at South Africa, model don’t work for complex systems, observation does
1

View 2 replies
Olga Curita
Olga Curita
3 days ago
Finally they see the truth

Eddy mmm
2 days ago
Models weren’t just wrong, they were horrible
1

Dawn Webb
15 hours ago
I’m going to Denmark!
1

chris tophe
3 days ago
She should come here to France… help !

Kimberley down under
3 days ago
Dam I want to move to Denmark
Except I can’t , I’m under strict draconian rules from the muppets in charge .

Wirmish
3 days ago
What was the “curve” for the 0 to 65 years old ?

Algorithm, Inc.
1 day ago (edited)
Great stuff … wonderful lady …

Lo-boy69
1 day ago
Its going to get much worse, this is just the first phase. Wake up…

TheGudsdotter
2 days ago
Good work Denmark

WIT NESS PRO T E C T I O N
2 days ago
how do you claim these reports as fact and believe you based on what exactly? Clearly pushed from a standpoint view
for accomplishing … ??? Part of the script..imo

Richard Mulligan
3 days ago
Please can you get your Prime Minister to talk some sense into her good friend Jacinda Ardern!! She’s lost the plot!
1

RobertSmith0008
3 days ago
can you please make an interview with Geert Vanden Bossche?

ScooterNoMore
3 days ago
Love her, Love the Danes!

Koyaan Isqatsi
3 days ago
Painful… modelling is not an exact science… there is your answer. It is just a guess (best, professional but still guessing).
1

View reply
fly 202
fly 202
3 days ago
I guess they figured tourist season is coming up.

Tony Rule
2 days ago
Meanwhile, in NZ… Jabcinda is doubling down.
1

oneski io
3 days ago
Imagine climate change modelling!!!

cutpricetech
1 day ago
THANK THE LORD FOR THOSE STABLE DANISH GOV ‘CRITICAL THINKERS’; COME ON REST OF THE WORLD GOVS; WAKEY, WAKEY

Suzanne Lee
1 day ago
Excellent!!!

audience2
22 hours ago
Great questions
1

Adventures in Health and Wellbeing
3 days ago
Can someone please send this information to the Prime Minster of Canada… are lives are being dictated by last year’s information.
1

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George Mavrides
George Mavrides
2 days ago
Apha, Beta…Delta, Omicron…blah blah blah. Was telling friends last year that they will come up with variants till the greek alphabet letters run out. Nothing beats natural, real immunity in healthy individuals.

Khurram Malik
3 days ago
In the end rationalist end up swallowing their owl tail.
My be Ouroboros was a bored ,mostly irrelevant “modeler” of the day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

jg5555
2 days ago
I want to go to there.

The Dialogue
3 days ago
Wow honest government. Now that’s strange.

Les Nash
3 days ago
How do you say PANDEMIC without laughing?
1

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NanoRussian Bot
NanoRussian Bot
2 days ago
Less corruption in Denmark then perhaps?
1

A free man
3 days ago
Smart woman, I would love her hand in marriage.

Npc I’m knot
7 hours ago
agreee but not the stuff she talked about vaccines.

Denver Hornsby Jr.
2 days ago
Smart Denmark!!

Austin Jdn
2 days ago
Good on Denmark, but this lady is extremely difficult to get a straight answer out of. Always trying to be diplomatic rather than just stating a firm opinion.
1

mickeyh1961
10 hours ago
Oops sounds like Denmark is going to have a Regime change if this continues

Laura Kyplain
2 days ago
Omercon replaced Delta, we love Denmark!

ᛞᚫᚾᛖᚱ
2 days ago
Next topic. The world leaders (the elite) “Russia attacking Europa!” Run for the hills

Shazia Asif
2 days ago
Let’s go to Denmark to breathe freely…
2

Browneyez
1 day ago
Excellent! Let go and let God.

Peppy The Miniature Schnauzer
1 day ago
Their hospitals probably still function ok

Holly Kostera
3 days ago
Beware. This may not be what it seems.

effigy
12 hours ago
Nothing to do with the submission to the International Criminal Court

Dean Vorbach
23 hours ago
Hey Brett Bed wetter Sutton give this Lady a call, she seems to have some common sense.

raspel1960
1 day ago (edited)
good and only acceptable serious decision

mommyromey
3 days ago
Kudos!!!!!!

halfgroverathome
15 hours ago (edited)
High trust because of low corruption
SAGE = bought?
1

Kyle
2 days ago
Common sense has arrived just in time.

Dizon Lacia
1 day ago
Please Pres. Duterte! Tanggalin mo na ang vaccine mandate! It’s very discriminating, unscientific, unlawful and unconstitutional!!!!!

Xav911
1 day ago
that they don’t received the memo in many other european countries.

Revolution Underground
3 days ago
IT’S ABOUT TIME!

Harry R Soul
3 days ago
We had no opposition too anything in the uk. More of the same.

Wunderin Wynd Feather aka Skjeren
1 day ago
Great News!

Saed Uluso
3 days ago
Countries learning from Sweden after 3 years

Beth Mark
3 days ago
Maybe Israel will follow. That’s where I’m from.
2

Leon Mailfert
2 days ago
It’s Denmark taking refugees from Australia?
1

ladi jada
3 days ago
Why is anyone still listening to Neil Ferguson, given his inaccurate modelling?

Douglas McIntyre
3 days ago
Brilliant.

Talking Furkids
2 days ago
Sharing this got my shadow banned on facebook
1

Jay Watt
3 days ago
Flatten the curve, Now your Seaing Level, also the earth is a Flat Elevated In Areas Plane We Live, GoOD On Denmark !!!

Ali59
2 days ago
Too bad Canada doesn’t have any qualified experts…..

sacred
3 days ago
Great!
1

Martin Kopera
2 days ago
How come nobody talks about Sweden?
1

ahmed dakkak
3 days ago
Common Sense Prevails.

lord skidmarks
3 days ago
societal break down when the living dead find out their the living dead

Pips Osborn
2 days ago
South Africa drops isolation as well from Feb 1 2o22

D S
3 days ago
Let’s all visit Denmark!!!!!
1

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C Jackson
C Jackson
2 days ago
At last the Penny has dropped

David Crawford
3 days ago
Good for you Camilla

Inconsolable
3 days ago
A state modeller who looks like a model!

View 2 replies
shutteredimage1
shutteredimage1
2 days ago
Jab goal was reached , haven’t heard end of passport I bet.

jelly lizar
2 days ago
The model is misleading. Cause more harm than benefit

alan bell
3 days ago
too many modelers become muddelers.
1

Patrick Stewart
2 days ago
“This is the way.”

Manuela Stangier
2 days ago
Great!!!

Mimimac
1 day ago
Moving to Denmark anyone in nz or Australia?

Naiane
1 day ago
I’m soo happy!!!

Dee Jay Hand job Charnel House Crew
3 days ago
Great News.

rOsE TrEvInO
5 hours ago

1

CARPO719
3 days ago
At least some nations are coming out of their cocoon
1

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Jennifer Owen
Jennifer Owen
1 day ago
Love Unherd!

Linda Zerr
3 days ago
What vaccines are being used in Denmark?
1

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DO NOT BUG ME.
DO NOT BUG ME.
2 days ago
Because they want to be re elected!

Mister Camworks
2 days ago (edited)
please come and work in holland……they cant put a model together here,to safe ther life !! Two years of wrong scarry models !!! monkys throwing darts !!

Baby Yoda
2 days ago
Artist on spotify tries to cancel both denmark and spain!!

UpTheSaints 2021
2 days ago
I had no idea England is a country

forcedair 92gt
3 days ago
Is Denmark taking new citizens? haha

Catarina SM
3 days ago

Andi P.
3 days ago

seeking the truth
3 days ago
Time to move to Denmark

Peter Vogwill
1 day ago
Once WARFARE FUNDED BIO LABS ARE CONSIDERED IN THIS CONTINUUM… ACTS OF DESIRED GAIN OF FUNCTION OFFER GOAL POSTS FOR BETTING POOLS

MAMIE
2 days ago
Science not politics!

Jacob Rolfe
3 days ago
might have to learn Danish

Lena yeret
2 days ago
Bravo

Grooverman
3 days ago
Why would anyone be listening to modeling forecast by Neil Ferguson at this point?

Dan Buckley
3 days ago
Awesome
Go truckers !!
1

scher more
3 days ago
Listen up Canada!

Paul Worthington
2 days ago
I wish the interviewer would not do that stupid flapping around of his hands with fingers sticking out like twigs on a dead branch thing ( the “Look at me, I’m using body language”) that has become an institutional embarassment. It is nerdy. A total turnoff. That David Cameron numpty was addicted to it.

hugh helmrich
3 days ago
Bullshit from start to finish. A better title would be. Denmark’s state modeller: Please don’t throw me on the bonfire.

Breath of Home
3 days ago
Still won’t admit natural immunity is best.

Bulasha
1 day ago
Omicron boosted our immuniy.

Purple Soul
3 days ago
Hope Freedom in Italy now … No more pass
1

CJA Mwankana
2 days ago

Jason Holmes
18 hours ago
Freddie’s got a crush on Camilla.

TortoiseJohnny
2 days ago
Unheard is the perfect name

Enigma
3 days ago
Can I move to Denmark?
1

DMV Thrifty Nurse SDI
2 days ago
…and then you have the U.S.
1

Paul Hancock
5 hours ago
Is the bonkers Spanish government watching?

Graham Stevens
3 days ago
Thank you

Mantra Life Products LLC
3 days ago
Natural immunity

denise odaniels
7 hours ago
smart. john hopkins hospital did some research. they said the isolation was basically for nothing. doesnt make that much of a matter .
1

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carebear09 White
carebear09 White
3 days ago
Please bring that common sense to USA

View reply

LadyWatchingBird
2 days ago
Gooooo Denmaaaaaark!!!

Coool_Breeze_
3 days ago
My birthday is 1st Feb. Thanks Denmark.

MidwestRibeye
3 days ago
Al go rithm

Harold Roberts
2 days ago
Just say no!
1

Opa Perner
2 days ago
Do you allow Ivemectin treatment

Damian Walsh
3 days ago
like they can distinguish Omicron from Delta……..

Guyzer
1 day ago
Doomsayers….on their faces!

Max preA
2 days ago
YES!
1

Pablo Limo
7 minutes ago
That a dr or a politician?

Plint Dillion
3 days ago
People please, open up!

Paul Verheyden
2 days ago
why is anybody listening to neil ferguson after al of his mistakes

Lauretta Scalzo
3 days ago
Great.

Dr Scott
2 days ago

1

MRJTUK
3 days ago
Soooooooo, can I get in without being injected?
1

Npc I’m knot
7 hours ago
well she is still not thinking of natural immunity
1

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John Michael
John Michael
3 days ago
You pronounce all of your O’s like OY’s, and that’s not proper English.

Noumenon4Idolatry
3 days ago
Subscribed

Richard Lamer
3 days ago
Canada, PAY ATTENTION.
2

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swites
swites
2 days ago
As for the models… garbage in, garbage out.

Shokugeki chef
3 days ago
When neocov arrives, burials return

View reply
Lucie Dagesse
Lucie Dagesse
3 days ago
I you do not have symptoms then why take a test?
2

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No I’m Spartacus
No I’m Spartacus
3 days ago
I’m moving to Denmark

724tito83
2 days ago

aleks 430
8 hours ago
Freddies vaccinated:(

Son Quatsch
3 days ago
Germany does not want to see this video.
1

A Bee
1 day ago
Truth from Ottawa

sam sam
2 days ago
I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Vicchi Oleski | embodied spirit work
3 days ago
smart Governing
1

Richard Smith
2 days ago
Can we swap her for Ferguson?

grizzuh
3 days ago
Stop the Madness!

Let’s Go Brandon
1 day ago
You need to get new dogs for your ‘new cheap tricks’…we are not dogs we know all your tricks!!!!!

Nebojsa Jurik
3 days ago
it’s not over until Bill says it’s over

Gregory Cickavage
3 days ago
Why so many different models?

Colin Riordan
2 days ago
something smells wonderful in denmark.
1

Natural-HI
3 days ago

Philip Steeves
3 days ago
Thanks for sanity,

Michael Bo Hansen
2 days ago
OMG!! Cancel Denmark .. yesterday!

JetSurfing Nation jet boards & efoils
3 days ago
Finally
1

Alfie
3 days ago
Two years too late
1

klaaibaby
3 days ago
Seriously need to move
1

Katarzyna Olczyk
2 days ago
hi there, did any other country followed suit as denmark?

View 4 replies
PAUL FRANKLIN
PAUL FRANKLIN
3 days ago
Sense at last …
1

View reply
Nareshkumar Patel
Nareshkumar Patel
11 hours ago
Money is root of all evil. Follow the money trail and you will find reason why UK modellers got it wrong .I wonder how much donation uk universities involved got from external sources. It will be interesting.

View reply

Peter Vogwill
1 day ago
Fear not..the FLOOD THE ZONE CHOIR IS GOING AWAY…? Naaaah next Salvo will flip the relaxed on their heads…hmmmm

Fred Schwentafsky
2 days ago
Mexico did it long ago….wakey wakey.

Amanda Thurston
2 days ago
What about the mink?
1

Russ Monte
3 days ago
True vikings
1

Josh Kidd
3 days ago
Meanwhile in Australia..

Vinni Jones
3 days ago

FuskerFisker
3 days ago
okay let’s try it out again …is it the word ‘propaganda’ which youtube don’t like ??? since i got deleted my posts 3 times

Lori Ann
3 days ago

Pumpkin Lashes
3 days ago
Tanzania led the way

Elisabetta Bronzi
1 day ago
help us in Italy
1

Kimberly Sanchez
2 days ago
#FREEDOM

L D
3 days ago
Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior.

Gospel Bearer
3 days ago
In Silico has entered the chat

apan gurra
3 days ago

1

Adam Page
3 days ago
open discussion thats illegal
1

Richard de la Sota
3 days ago
Why is anyone still listening to Neil Ferguson?
1

diane doody
1 day ago
Sense…

Matthew Edward Snyder
3 days ago

1

michael jensen
3 days ago
I HATE this STUPID Telephone Change what i write all the time with danish words AI, Elon Musk, Robots is a sick plan The Youth you destroy with stupid toy machines

Dizon Lacia
1 day ago
Sana all!

Maria Garcia
2 days ago
Still promoting vetsin

woolengrappler
3 days ago
Please get on Rumble

J is the new Q
1 day ago
Old people with 4 plus underlying conditions .

Jürg Schüpbach
2 days ago
Belarus is still alive…….
1

View reply
lawrence Hoffman
lawrence Hoffman
3 days ago
Garage in Garage out XD

Alex Fong
2 days ago
Yay!!!!

Tulips ontheorgan
1 day ago
“Baaa baaaa baaaa”

3Kiwiana
7 hours ago
Funny that she doesn’t admit natural immunity is better than vaxed
1

View reply
Censored by Google
Censored by Google
2 days ago
21:47

David S. Tavadian
3 days ago
Probably, maybe, hope, not too confident, think….. it’s useless to listen to this woman…

View reply
Paul Aoki
Paul Aoki
2 days ago
Flatten what?

Jeff F
3 days ago
cdc that’s a joke
1

yeo
3 days ago
Cuz they smart?

Gino
1 day ago
Dr Camilla Holten-Møller very attractive girl

lolizorz
2 days ago
Ugh

Lana
2 days ago
B.s

Gordon Smith
2 days ago
Fauci!!’nnnn

 

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See Also

 

 

J-IDEA – Professor Neil Ferguson on the current 2019-nCoV coronavirus outbreak – Feb 6, 2020 — Transcript

UnHerd – Malcolm Turnbull – Don’t Count Trump Out – Jun 12, 2020 — Transcript

UnHerd – Why Lockdowns are the Wrong Policy – Swedish Expert Prof Johan Giesecke – Apr 17, 2020 — Transcript

UnHerd – Scott Atlas – I’m Disgusted and Dismayed – Oct 20, 2020 — Transcript

Ivor Cummins – Amazing Debate on Lockdown Ideology Versus Scientific Approach – Unmissable! – Oct 23, 2020 — Transcript

UnHerd – Prof Tim Spector – Hopes of a Vaccine Will Lead to More Lockdowns – Nov 11, 2020 — Transcript

 

 

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