Mark Collett: Hello everybody. And welcome to tonight’s stream. It is, of course, the last Sunday of the month which can mean only one thing. It is PA Book Club. And PA Book Club tonight is reviewing Reactionary Modernism, which is a collection of essays by the late great Jonathan Bowden.

 

I want to call him Sir Jonathan Bowden. I can’t, because he isn’t a Sir. But he certainly deserves that title. He was a great man. He was somebody I actually knew, IRL [In Real Life]. I met him on numerous occasions and had the joy of hearing him speak live! So. This is going to be a pretty good stream.

 

And it’s going to be particularly good for me, because obviously I’ve got some personal history with the man. As I said, I did know him, I did speak to him. And I worked with him at one point when we were both in the British National Party. He was the British National Party’s Cultural Officer for a long period, before he fell out with Nick Griffin. And Nick Griffin expelled him from the party, along with a lot of other talented people. So Bowden was somebody who obviously fell foul of that regime, and he went on to do his own thing. And sadly he has passed away. He’s no longer with us.

 

But. Before we get into the stream. I just want to make the point that we are live on Odysee, we’re live on Radio Albion. And we’re live on Dlive. Make sure you are following us all there. And we’re also live on Entropy. So if you’d like to ask questions, or if you’d like to make donations you can make financial contributions to this stream via Odysee using the support button, or via Entropy. You can go into Entropy, you can ask non-paid, or paid questions I’ll answer all the non-paid and paid questions tonight on this stream.

 

So if you’ve got any points to make. If you want to ask anything about the book. Or if you want to just pay tribute to Jonathan Bowden, or just help us financially in a small way, you can do. Those are two ways you can do it.

 

You can also donate to me via crypto currency. All my crypto links are in the description of this video. If you’re on Odysee, or watching on replay on BitChute, or if you go to my Telegram, or GAB, or you can write to me at markatthefallofwesternman.com. That’s markatthefallofwesternman.com. And you can get in touch with me there. And if you want I can send you other crypto addresses, or my bank details if you want to donate, that way.

 

Now the book was supplied to us for free by Counter-Currents. It was edited by Greg Johnson, and Greg is here with us this evening. We’re lucky enough to have him here. But before we go over to Greg Johnson I usually always say we can get the author to start us off. And tell us a bit about the book. But this isn’t so much a book penned by Greg, but a collection of essays. So we’ll go to Greg in a minute.

 

We’ll start off with Natty. Natty how you doing my friend? Have you had a good weekend? What have you been up to? And did you enjoy the book?

 

Natty: I’m very well thanks Mark. Hello everyone. Hello Greg. Thank you for being here. Hello Laura. I hope you’ve all had a good weekend. Yeah, I’ve been paddle boarding down the Fowey in Cornwall in the glorious, glorious sunshine! So I’ve had quite a nice weekend, and stopping at little creeks along the way and reading the book whilst eating packed lunches. So yeah, I’ve had a wonderful weekend.

 

And despite only getting the book on Wednesday, last Wednesday, I’ve ploughed through it. Because I don’t like reading ebooks. I understand [chuckling] Laura got it somewhat later than that. So I don’t know how far though it she got. But I certainly enjoyed it.

 

And being that Bowden’s speeches are so good to listen to, I think it’s nice to have something that’s kind of a solid piece in my bookshelf where I’ve got Bowden’s words transcribed and edited so well by Greg. I know that you’ve said you’ve got a bit to say about what’s lost when you transcribe a speech onto paper. But I’m sure we’ll get into that. But nevertheless it’s good to have this book in hand I think.

 

Mark Collett: Thank you very much my friend. Laura how was your weekend? What did you get up to? And did you enjoy the book?

 

Laura Towler: Hi everyone. Yes I had a good weekend, thank you. It was Catherine’s Christening today. So we had a Christening ceremony. And then a bit of a party. Mark was there. And so I got home two hours ago and I, …

 

Mark Collett: Say my name Laura! What am I now?

 

Laura Towler: The Godfather! [chuckling]

 

Mark Collett: That is all I want to hear! That is me done for the night! I’ll see you next week!

 

Laura Towler: [chuckling] So I got given the book by Mark at Catherine’s Christening today. So as you can imagine I haven’t read much of it. Although I did come home and read it for two hours. Are we doing thoughts on the book now, Mark? Or just introductions for now?

 

Mark Collett: Well yeah, or what did you, because obviously you had the ebook a little bit in advance, because there was a little bit of a, …

 

Laura Towler: You had a PDF version.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah. The PDF.

 

Laura Towler: I don’t like to read on them.

 

Mark Collett: No! No! No. I’ll say this Greg is a better author than he is an organizer of getting books sent out on time! I think Greg will take that one on the chin! Would you agree with that Greg?

 

[05:11]

 

Greg Johnson: I blame Covid! Anyway, it’s nice to be on the show.

 

Mark Collett: It’s not even a thing! Get yourself [chuckling], …

 

Greg Johnson: I blame Covid [words unclear], …

 

Mark Collett: Right, carry on Laura.

 

Laura Towler: Yes. Well, I was very excited that we’re doing this book. And that this is a topic of discussion today, because even though I haven’t finished the book. I think it’s a very interesting topic. And you’ve got lots of questions for Greg. I think that we might disagree with each other a little bit about the topic in this. I’m not sure what Mark’s thoughts are on modern art and stuff. So it’d be good if we could get a bit of a debate going back and forward.

 

But I love this. And I talk about art quite a lot. I spoke about it in my first PA speech back when we launched in September 2019. And Sam and I did a show about art a few weeks ago on Tea Time. And what I really like about Bowden is that he isn’t just someone who wants to recreate what we’ve already done, and just drag up things from the past and say:

 

“This was a perfect time in our history, therefore let’s recreate it.”

 

He wants something fresh and modern and exciting. And I love that about him. So I think it’s going to be a really good conversation. And this is definitely a book that I’m going to finish. And I love my job, when I get sent books like this for free! Because it would have been a book that I bought anyway. So yeah, I’m looking forward to finishing it. And I’ll pass it back to you Mark.

 

Mark Collett: Okay our next guest is Aunt Sally. Hello Aunt Sally. How are you doing? Did you have a good weekend? And what did you think of the book? What are your first impressions?

 

Aunt Sally: Hello Mark. Hello everyone. Is my audio okay?

 

Mark Collett: We’ll have to deal with it.

 

Aunt Sally: Is it? Oh, okay well I’ve had a good weekend. It’s all fine. Yes, I have enjoyed the book. It is something I didn’t really know very much about as far as modernism and art. It’s been very interesting. It’s interesting to read. And I found myself going off in a tangent looking up these artists and their work, as I’m reading the book. Certain artists, Wyndham Lewis. And there’s a few of them that I’ve heard of, but didn’t really know much about. I found myself getting distracted a lot by the book itself. So yeah, I really enjoyed it.

 

Mark Collett: Okay! Well, I’ve had a good weekend. It was very nice to be at Catherine’s Christening earlier today. I really enjoyed that obviously. And I’ve got to say I got to sample some of Laura’s excellent gingerbread. And it is truly excellent! I’ve got to say, in fact, it’s probably the best gingerbread I’ve ever had. Actually, I really like soft gingerbread. And this was exceptional. So good news there.

 

Now on to the book. Firstly, I think this book’s really important! I’ve actually got it here in my hand now I’m just flying through! I’m just leafing through it, as we speak. Now I think the book is very important. It’s very important, because Jonathan sadly isn’t with us anymore.

 

And this is a collection of his works. And they’re a collection of speeches. And speeches are things that in Jonathan’s period mostly will be lost. There are many great speakers out there people like Jonathan Bowden, Richard Edmonds, John Tyndall. People who dedicated their life to nationalism and many of their speeches will be lost.

 

Now obviously we live in a different time. We live in a time where speeches aren’t lost, or we live in a time thankfully where most things are immortalized on the internet. So if you’ve been working on something. If you’ve been part of a project, that project will usually find its way onto the internet. And it’ll usually be archived somewhere and saved forever. And even if it’s in a tiny little backwater page on Odysee, or BitChute with only 50 subscribers, it’s still there for people to happen across it. And that’s very important.

 

Because back then, back when Bowden was making his speeches, that wasn’t the case. His speech speeches are lost to the sands of time, or many of them are. However, Greg has painstakingly gone back and captured these speeches in some form, or another. Put them together in a readable format. So you can read them as essays. And I think this book is so very important, because of that!

 

Now, I’m not initially going to comment on the content of the book. Because I don’t actually agree with Jonathan Bowden on a lot of what he was saying in the book, actually, I don’t agree with some of his takes on this. But what I will say is it is important.

 

However, there is a caveat to all of this. And it’s an unfortunate caveat. And it’s a caveat that shouldn’t detract from the book itself. And it shouldn’t stop you buying the book. So I’m not saying don’t buy the book. But I will say this. I knew Jonathan. I spent time with him one-on-one talking with him. I spent time with him around dinner tables with groups of people discussing things with him. I listened to his speeches in person on a number of occasions.

 

[10:16]

 

And Jonathan was a great British eccentric! He was a man that had certain mannerisms, certain ways of speaking, certain phrases. The way he postured, the way he threw his hands up in the air. The way he would enunciate his words. He was one of a kind. And he was quintessentially British.

 

But unfortunately that Britishness, the very nature of Jonathan which was captured in the moment, or you took in when you heard him speak, it’s very difficult to put that into a book. And although the book is excellent. And I do recommend it. And I do think these are important things, because they keep his memory alive. And that’s something that we should absolutely want to do. We should want to preserve his works and keep his memory alive.

 

Unfortunately some of it is slightly lost in translation when it comes to the book. Because you do, to some degree, miss out on Jonathan! You get his words. But they’re not coming from him. And, because they’re not coming from him, you miss that just “something else”, that he added. And he really did add “something else”. He really did put his heart and soul in there. If you like, these are the words of Jonathan, but minus Jonathan.

 

So yes, it’s important to preserve that. But it is no substitute really for listening to him speak. Because as a narrator he added so much. He’s one of the best speakers I’ve ever heard. He added so much to his speeches with his mannerisms, his hand gestures. And that’s lost. But I still think the project is brilliant, and very, very important, because without projects like this Jonathan’s work would be lost. It would just be lost to the sands of time. And that’s something we should never allow to happen.

 

So thank you to Greg, for doing this. Thank you to Greg for taking this, undertaking this project and keeping his work alive. So Greg we’ll introduce you now my friend. It’s always a pleasure to have you on everyone knows who you are! You’re a good friend of myself, good friend of Patriotic Alternative, good friend of PWR. We love having you on book club.

 

You collected this. You turned this into an essay. The first thing. I’m going to ask is, how did you do this? Can you tell us the story of how you came to collect these things and turn them into readable works?

 

Greg Johnson: Well, it’s great to be on the show. Thank you for having me on. I met Jonathan for the first time in 2009. I saw him speak twice in the United States. The first talk wasn’t recorded. The second one was at a Counter-Current retreat at the beginning of 2012. And we did record that. That’s the speech Western Civilization Bites Back.

 

I was shocked when he died. He died on the 29th of March, 10 years ago. And I was brought up short by it. I was shocked by it. And immediately I started trying to get a hold of things by him, recordings by him.

 

Mike Polignano who’s my business partner at the time started transcribing things. I had recorded the Western Civilization Bites Back speech. And also an interview with him. I think it was the last interview that was recorded by him. And they were on a flash drive that was broken. I ended having up having to spend [chuckling] $300 to get the information recovered from the broken flash drive. And so those audios are preserved.

 

It turns out that the most important person was Matt Tate. Matt Tate at a certain point, after seeing Jonathan speak a few times, thought:

 

“We really should record these!”

 

And so he went out and got a recorder and started taping speeches. And he taped all of Jonathan’s speeches that he went to from that point on.

 

And so we have a lot of them. We have about two-thirds, I think, of the talks that he gave for the New Right in London. There are a lot that were lost. I don’t have any idea how many speeches he gave for the BNP. We have more than 20 of those, that are extant. And I recently heard from a fellow in the north of England, who would record Jonathan when he spoke in that area. I guess in the Manchester area, he would record him.

 

[15:14]

 

He also recorded a couple of sort of documentary things where Jonathan talked about The Turner Prize, and British sculpture. There were sort of slide shows. In one of them Jonathan’s just turning the pages of a book and talking about the images. And he has all of these speeches in high quality files. He’s saved them all.

 

He has speeches by John Tyndall. There are a couple speeches by Jonathan that were only incomplete on the internet, that he has complete versions of and he’s got high quality versions of all of them. And so this is a big find.

 

And one of the things that we’re going to be doing with the Jonathan Bowden archive website, which I just put up last month, is we’ll start hosting the best quality versions of the videos and audios that we can get of Jonathan.

 

And one of the things that we started doing immediately after he died is transcribing his speeches. Mike Polignano was the first person to start doing that. Other people stepped forward to volunteer. A fellow who goes by his initials VS, he did a whole bunch of Jonathan’s speeches.

 

And then we would crowdsource the hard parts, the tricky parts, the words that were hard to understand. And one person who recently was very, very helpful with that is Millennial Woes. He has his followers on Telegram. And he would put clips, a little quote, little clips of audio that I couldn’t transcribe. And native, British English speakers, they could hear that. And they would know what he’s saying. Whereas, I couldn’t really make it out. And so he had a little brain trust working on that for me.

 

So it’s been a crowdsourced thing. It’s been a collective thing. But a few people really got it started. Matt Tate had a huge role in preserving this. This other fellow that I recently was contacted by who made these videos had the responsibility to history to keep these things.

 

And that’s the thing that gets me. I’ve worked for years gathering material for a biography of Savitri Devi. And over the years I’ve seen so much material lost, or heard about so much material lost! Because people don’t make any provisions for preserving things like their correspondence. And so forth. After they die they think:

 

“Well who would care about this?”

 

Right? And so that’s how history gets lost! People don’t take the responsibility to keep things. And then to make sure that once they die the stuff just isn’t binned by their kids, or a person who doesn’t approve of Jonathan Bowden, or something like that.

 

Years ago this woman in the UK who was the executor for Muriel Gantry, who was a friend of Savitri Devi, I got in touch with her after Muriel died. And she said:

 

“Well, I threw away 34 years of correspondence with Savitri Devi, because I found it offensive.”

 

And I just groaned! [chuckling] But that’s how history gets lost. So I really want to thank people like Matt to whom this book is dedicated, and others who save these things for history.

 

And one of the best ways of getting this stuff circulating is to get it in print, printed form. Someday the internet may go off! It’s amazing, it might go off all together. But many, many sites that I have known over the past, twenty years have disappeared. I’ve made a point of making copies of every translation that appears of my work, or other works at Counter-Currents, on other websites. And I’m glad I made a point of doing that. Because some of these websites just disappeared. And if I hadn’t made a copy there would be no copy available.

 

So I’m an archivist. I’ve created a Savitri Devi archive. I’ve created the Jonathan Bowden archive. I want to maintain history I want to keep the history of our movement alive. And keep the work of people like Jonathan alive.

 

And the 10th anniversary of his death was a really opportune time to create this archive. And I knew that as soon as the archive was out there I would start hearing from people who had new material. And that’s begun to happen. So I’m very, very encouraged by it.

 

There’s going to be another book coming out next year. Another collection of speeches and essays. I’m going to call it, The Cultured Thug. And I have enough for a pretty substantial volume of interviews by Jonathan. And finally enough for a very solid book, maybe a book as much as 400 pages of the transcripts of his surviving BNP stump speeches. So there’s a lot more to look forward to.

 

[20:29]

 

Mark Collett: Well, that is superb news. I’m really happy about that. I mean, as I said, I knew Jonathan, I know Matt Tate very well, in fact. I’ve met him on a number of occasions, spent a lot of time in his company. We have a lot of mutual friends. I’m pleased that Matt was involved in this project. And it’s good to see that so many people have come together to make this happen and to preserve his body of work, as best we can.

 

So let’s go into the book then. And we’ll start by going around the group. Because obviously we’ve talked about the importance of preserving the book but what do people actually think about the content of these speeches, or essays? We’ll start with you Natty. What was your thoughts on Bowden’s take on Modernism? Because in this he talks a lot about modern art. And he’s actually quite a fan of modern art. What was your take on this?

 

Natty: Well, I’ve got more notes for this book than I’ve made for any of the other books we’ve had on the book club. Which is strange, because it’s only 200 pages. So it’s probably one of the shorter books. And I’m not actually an enjoyer of art, especially not the kind of art that Jonathan Bowden’s talking about.

 

As a young boy I was probably dragged to galleries and looked at certain things. I do have a disdain for certain modern artists, like Tracy Emin. I know that towards the end of the book he talks about The Turner Prize. And I don’t know if Tracy Emin ever won it. But that art piece she did with her bed, even as a teenager not really understanding much about the world, that always disgusted me! And I always thought what’s this proto-Instagram thot who’s just taking a picture of her bed with tampons and beer bottles all over it, being allowed to earn millions and be lauded by the art world as some sort of revolutionary artist. And I think Jonathan Bowden rightly savages those type of people. Which is good, and I enjoy it, because it’s cathartic on that level.

 

But I wasn’t aware of Wyndham Lewis. And he talks a bit about TS Eliot. And some of the other guys in here. But I enjoyed reading about his takes on them. And I’m probably not going to have such a strong view of either of you guys, where you might go back and forth. So I’m looking forward to hearing a little bit more of an in-depth analysis from you guys. But I enjoyed it. And I’m willing to dig into some of these notes, when the discussion gets going.

 

Mark Collett: Okay. Laura, what was your thoughts on Jonathan’s opinions on modern art?

 

Laura Towler: Yeah. Well, I haven’t finished the book like I said. But from the first few essays I read, I agree with him. And I’m actually a fan of Modern art too. I think people get confused, because they think all the last few decades were Modern art. But I’d say that’s more Contemporary art. And Modern art is sort of 1860s to 1970s. And so like your post impressionism Van Gogh, that kind of stuff is Modern art. And I love that. I love that stuff.

 

Because I think there’s only so many times that you can replicate a near to photograph painting before you stop really feeling anything from it. And one of my favourite artists is Caravaggio, who came just after the Renaissance period. And I absolutely love his art. But I think if people were to try and replicate that today, I don’t really think I’d feel anything from it. I think I’d look at it and think:

 

“That’s really good, you’re really talented.”

 

But, I think, in order to inspire, you know, feelings of excitement, and fear, and terror, and all sorts of emotions, I think it needs to be a little bit deeper, and a little bit different.

 

And obviously this period correlates with when photography became more mainstream we didn’t have to paint things close to life anymore, because we had photographs, and obviously moving pictures, and films and stuff. So I agree with Bowden.

 

And I think when we go forward. And we create this new age, whatever it is that happens to our people, to White people in the future, I think it needs to be something fresh, and exciting, and modern. I don’t think it needs to be a replica of what we’ve already had. So yeah, I’m hash-tag Team Bowden! [chuckling] I’ll pass it back.

 

Mark Collett: Okay. Aunt Sally, what were your thoughts on Bowden’s opinions on Modern art?

 

[25:02]

 

Aunt Sally: I’m a bit, I’m more with Natty on this, I think. I’m not a massive fan of modern art. I’ve spent my life raising children, I haven’t really noticed it that much except when it came on with Tracy Emin thing. I just remember a sideways look at that and thinking:

 

“What the heck is going on!”

 

One thing I’ve learnt from this book is how art has historically been used to shape a nation. And what I found really interesting was the fact that these artists, Wyndham Lewis, and TS Elliot, they were the rock stars of their day. And they would have sought after crowd that everybody wanted to hang around. And they were the ones that were sort of worshipped instead of pop stars. I found that really fascinating.

 

And there’s so much, I wish I’d had this big book earlier, because there’s so much I’ve gone off in the tangent doing more research into these artists and looking at their work. I even looked at, … I didn’t even know Bowden was an artist! I don’t know that much about [word unclear] Bowden myself. I’ve watched a few of his speeches. I’m quite new to him. And I’m fascinated by him. I loved his art. But I didn’t like his modern art. I liked his landscapes and stuff.

 

But the book cover itself, that image of Mussolini, I really hate it! I’d love to know what everyone else thought that. I hate it! I can’t make head nor tail why those colours are there! It’s horrible! Anyway, I’m rambling on. I’ll let you carry on Mark.

 

Mark Collett: I’m with you Aunt Sally. I look at the picture on the cover and I think it’s ugly. I think it’s pointless. I think it’s childish. I think it’s the kind of dross that somebody might just churn out when they’re doodling something.

 

Now, I don’t think all art just has to be a replication of previous art. And I do like different sort of interpretations of imagery. And I do like certain forms of say animation, or certain forms of interpreting something that makes it look more stylized, or brings out say a certain darkness, or makes an image look more sinister, or more welcoming, or gives an image more depth. It doesn’t simply have to be photo realistic.

 

 

And there are some modern artists who produce art that isn’t particularly classical. Says like HR Giger. Now people will know who HR Giger is even if they don’t know his name, because he’s the guy who did the design of the alien in the Alien films. The xenomorph.

 

And if you look at Giger’s paintings, I think they’re absolutely spectacular! I think they are skillful. I think they are modern. I think they’re forward-looking. I think they’re haunting. I think sometimes they are out and out stomach churning and odd. But, they’re still clearly something.

 

They’re not just a nonsense. They’re not just a bizarre abstract scribbles and squiggles, thrown on a page with random colours and boxes and strange lines! You can tell what they are, you can tell they’re an alien life form.

 

And when I look at the picture on the front cover here, until I read it was Mussolini with planes going over him, it just I didn’t know whether it was somebody’s actually, I didn’t actually know whether it was someone’s sort of bizarre sort of interpretation of Bowden himself! It was just a mess!

 

And I do fundamentally disagree actually [chuckling] with Bowden’s thoughts on this. Now obviously me disagreeing with his thoughts, it doesn’t mean I don’t think his work should be preserved. It doesn’t mean I think of him as any less of a man.

 

But I certainly don’t think that modern art, in the sense of the abstract, and these strange angular shapes cobbled together with bright primary colours, approximating a human figure, when you kind of squinted it and, you know, look at it from an angle. I don’t really think that is art.

 

I think art is defined as being beautiful, which is very important. But it’s also very subjective. But I think art should also be defined as something that can only be produced by the few. I think it’s beauty and excellence. And the beauty is very, very subjective. But excellence is objective, in that not everyone can achieve that excellence.

 

So when I do see modern art, and I like it, it tends to be something that I would say has a large degree of skill involved in making it. And I think much of the modern art that we see today has no skill involved.

 

And I do understand what Laura is saying about photography. I’m not saying every artist has to perfectly recreate an image in the most photo realistic way possible. And I do think that you can take an image and add themes, or feelings, to that image by accentuating certain things. Making the image really tell more of a story than just it being a photo realistic depiction of something that was once there.

 

But I do think the kind of modern art that Jonathan’s talking about in this, it really isn’t my thing at all. But obviously this is a discussion show! So we’re open to discussion. And I’m sure we’re gonna have one now.

 

[30:50]

 

Natty: Can I just say, I didn’t realize that the picture on the front of a book was Mussolini, until you guys started talking about it now. So I’m getting an education in real time here! I think I’m gonna share the screen so everyone can see it. I do disagree with you. So I don’t know if you can put that up Mark? I’ve put it down the bottom of the thing. So you can put it up on the screen.

 

 

Now I’m looking at it, like there’s quite a like a hard glint in his eye. And it’s quite obvious like the angle of his nose and like a hard sweep of his chin, that’s a good, that’s not just you’ve looked at a photo of him and scribbled some lines down and thought:

 

“Yeah. Because that’s kind of representative of what he looks like.”

 

There’s clearly some thought being put into that of like what he looks like and the kind of person he was, right? I’m not, …

 

Mark Collett: Mate! If you have to be told what the image is, it’s not a good image! [Natty laughs] That’s like when my daughter scribbles something:

 

“Like, that’s lovely Sofia! Is it a dog?”

 

And she’s like:

 

“It’s a flower daddy!”

 

[chuckling]

 

Natty: Because I was just reading the book! So I was like:

 

“Okay there’s a funny drawing on the front.”

 

But now I’m taking it in, I can see that is art. For instance, I’ll bring her up again if anyone Googles just Tracy Emin, you can see – not the bed – but the actual art she did where she’s just like throwing paint at a canvas. That is trash! There’s no value to that. There’s nothing you can draw from that.

 

But this is actually a picture. And it definitely has some, like I said you can see his eye. There’s a way he looks in his eye that’s where thoughts being put into that. And some, there’s like an intelligence behind that piece, right? Maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know.

 

Aunt Sally: But can I just say that that picture is Bowden’s own work.

 

Natty: Yes.

 

Aunt Sally: Yeah. I don’t like it. I like his other work, his landscape stuff. But I don’t like this at all.

 

Natty: No! No!

 

Aunt Sally: I’m trying to work out is it a chess piece at the top? Is that what it’s supposed to be?

 

Natty: [chuckling] Don’t ask me! Maybe Mark knows [chuckling]? Maybe Greg’s knows?

 

Mark Collett: It’s just madness! It’s just madness! And you see, as much as I’m saying this is madness, as much as I’m not impressed by it in the slightest, it is very Jonathan! Because Jonathan was an eccentric. And I can see this being something that Jonathan would like. And he would see something in this. Whereas for me, I’m not really like that. I’m not wired the same way that he was wired. I don’t really see anything in this. I see it as a bit of a mess.

 

Now I do think there could be a stylized picture of Mussolini that made you feel something. I just don’t think this is it. I mean, maybe I’m getting it wrong. Maybe I’m being uncharitable. I mean, Laura what’s your thoughts on this? Because you said:

 

“Maybe we’re gonna have a bit of an argument about this one.”

 

Laura Towler: Yeah, should we actually have a bit of a fight about it [chuckling]?

 

Mark Collett: Come on then, promote your degenerate art.

 

Laura Towler: [chuckling] I quite like it. I mean, I don’t love it! It’s not the best piece of art I’ve ever seen. But it’s clearly Mussolini. And I think it’s clearly a powerful image. In fact, it looks a bit like Sam. [laughing] Don’t think it looks a bit like Sam, that picture [chuckling]?

 

Mark Collett: So now it’s such a good picture of Mussolini, it kind of looks like your husband! If you’re half squinting!

 

Laura Towler: Yeah. But let’s get Greg’s thoughts on modern art, because he’s our guest, and I’d be interested to hear what he thinks.

 

Greg Johnson: Well, first of all I’m not a huge, huge fan of Jonathan’s paintings. I do own three of them, though. And I’m very fond of the ones that I have. Before I left him. The last time I saw him. We had agreed that I would buy this painting. [chuckling] And he was going to bring it back the next time he came to the United States. And I also made a commission from him. So sadly that was never done.

 

But yeah, let’s just set his work aside. He did do work in visual arts. Some of it I like. Some of it I’m not crazy about. I know what he’s doing, though. It doesn’t just look like bollocks to me. It looks like there’s something going on. I wouldn’t say it’s not art. I would sometimes say, it’s not great art. Put it that way. But some of it I very much like.

 

[35:50]

 

So anyway, the basic point that he makes in the book and I think it’s a valid point, is that in representational art, photography changed everything. Because once it was possible to make pictures, or moving pictures, representation became something that could be done with by machines. And then the question became:

 

“Well, what contribution do artists make?”

 

How can we be creative? How can we do something on canvas, or in ink, and paper, whatever, that is not something that can be replicated by a machine.?

 

And I think it forced people to rethink what art is and to recognize that it’s not just the content, it’s not just representation, it’s also a style, it’s a slant, it’s an interpretation of the world, it’s an expression of something beyond just the objective content of an image.

 

Most of this book, though, is about literary modernism. Which is a whole different thing. And he talks a lot about literary modernists. But he doesn’t really talk about the motives that gave rise to modernism in literature. Which I think is an interesting question. He deals more with modernism in representational art.

 

A lot of the artists he talks about in this volume are people that I really like. I really like Wyndham Lewis. And Wyndham Lewis was not only a superb essayist and an interesting novelist. But he was also I think a superb painter. And if you want to pull up some of the paintings that Wyndham Lewis did, his early sort of futurist type paintings, they’re kind of abstract, or his portraits, I think they’re superb! He was a very talented fellow.

 

Ezra Pound, of course, he did a little bit of music composition, but primarily he was a poet and an essayist. I don’t find his poetry all that musical. I find it hard to get into. But I find his essays to be really interesting. His political writing is very interesting.

 

He talks about TS Eliot. Now that’s a poet that I really like as a poet. He was also an interesting critic, an essayist, and a writer on civilization. And he was a Rightist. And that’s the thing that I think is most valuable about this book. And it’s valuable. About an earlier book that Counter-Currents published by Kerry Bolton, called Artists of the Right, which is just to demonstrate that there’s a false idea that modernism in art is a Left-wing, progressive, thing. And it’s just not true!

 

This is an idea that was promoted primarily post-World War II. Primarily starting in the late 1950s, when you get right down to it. And a lot of it had to do with, believe it, or not, the Cold War, the CIA. The CIA, the American Central Intelligence Agency, got behind the promotion of abstract expressionism, non-representational art.

 

Why? Because they wanted to show that America is a really free, and “with it”, and progressive, and happening place! Unlike those stodgy people behind the Iron Curtain who insisted that paintings be about things, and music be intelligible. And that the masses can enjoy it, right?

 

And so that idea that modernism in art was a Leftist, progressive, thing really sort of some was cemented by a post-war propaganda campaign coming out of the United States. And funded by our tax dollars! Whereas before the war, certainly modernism was just across the board. Something that was happening in literature and the visual arts. And there were great artists in literature, and the visual arts, who were avowed modernists. And he talks about Pound, he talks about Elliott, he talks about WB Yates, who’s somewhat ambiguously related to modernism. But he belongs in this collection. Wyndham Lewis, of course, is in this collection.

 

[40:36]

 

In visual art there was an entire movement of Italian Futurism that did amazingly vital abstract art that was openly aligned with fascism, interestingly enough. And if you want to bring up some images of classics of say Italian Futurism. There’s a guy named Tullio Crali, C-R-A-L-I. I think he’s the greatest of the Italian Futurist painters! This is modernism. But it’s explicitly Rightist modernism. Which is interesting.

 

 

Another of the great 20th century visual artists, who was an open Rightist, was Salvador Dali! Dali was an Ardent Spanish nationalist. He made his peace with the Franco regime. He was quite comfortable there. In his later years he painted gigantic canvases on themes celebrating, for instance, the Spanish discovery of the New World, and the settlement there. He was an openly far-Right figure, which is little-known about his biography. People think:

 

“Well, if he’s painting melting clocks, and things like that, he’s got to be a Right-winger, I mean, a Left-winger! He’s got to be a progressive.”

 

Not so. And so, just to rediscover that before the war, and really before the 1950s, Modernism was not a thing of the Left. It was not identified with progressivism. It was not identified with decadence. In fact, it was identified with Vitalism, which is a very interesting cultural Strand that defines itself precisely as the opposite of decadent! Right? That is something lost to us.

 

And so I think it’s wonderful that revisionist scholarship like the Bolton book, Artists of the Right, and the speeches that Jonathan gave. Most of these speeches in this book were given near the end of his life. He made a point of covering people, like Pound, Elliot, Yates, and so forth, near the end of his life. I think that’s a really important chapter in history that’s been lost.

 

So it’s an embarrassment to Leftists who tend to be mindless, and impossibly smug, people today, to admit that some of the great literary figures of the 20th century who are supposedly part of the Progressive canon, because Modernism embraced, or Progressivism embraced Modernism, after the war. It’s an embarrassment that so many people who can’t be excluded from the Modernist canon really aren’t progressive! In fact, they were they might have been progressive in a certain sense, like the Italian futurists. But they were not Left-wing progressives. Let’s put it that way.

 

Mark Collett: That’s very interesting. Would anyone like to comment on that? Natty? Laura?

 

Natty: Yeah, I just found the Italian futurist, Tullio Crali and brought up some pictures. And I’ve shared one in the screen. If you want to pull that up Mark.

 

 

And you’re right. I mean, Bowden talks about this in speeches. And in the book he actually covers some of the same – if you read it all the way through – some of the same parts of his speeches are reoccurring. And he makes it clear that there are the two focal points of this kind of the movement, especially of these four, or five, gentlemen he’s talking about. Is the First World War and the Second World War, and how things changed after the Second World War. And in the 60s.

 

So yeah, I think Greg makes a good point. I think it’s good to remember that this isn’t the territory of the Left wing, or communism, or whatever. It was actually much more open before that time, after the invention of photography.

 

[45:02]

 

Aunt Sally: And this is where the book took me. It took me into looking at the art of all the artists he’s talking about. And even the ones that he didn’t. And that was a good thing for me, because I wasn’t aware of half of this. Now I quite like this image that we’re looking at now. I quite like it even though I’m not a massive fan of modern art. But it took me into, I spent for every hour I spent reading the book, I spent four hours looking at things that related to it. So it was really good for me in that way.

 

And even thinking about Wyndham Lewis, I Googled him and looking at what I said earlier about the rock star thing, they were the rock stars of their day. And he walked around in a sombrero, very tall, quite good-looking fellow. Lived the life of, … I think he was married. But he was having affairs everywhere. He was quite awful for women. It’s just interesting reading about them. And then the book took me off on a tangent, lots of tangents. And the art, there’s lots more that I want to look at through reading this book.

 

Natty: The funny thing is I’ve got in my notes actually about Wyndham Lewis, that if you Google him, one of the first couple of images that comes up, he actually looks like kind of the aesthetic that I’m going for in my avatar here. And that Woes, it kind of immediately reminded me of Millennial Woes when I looked at it! So I mean, if anyone could Google that now. And you’ll see this kind of [chuckling] like a Telegram profile picture, like a Right-winger profile picture from Telegram. It’s quite interesting. And this is a guy who was around, you know, 100 years ago.

 

Greg Johnson: Well, he died in the 1950s, so.

 

Natty: Yeah. So the aesthetics. And that the, I don’t know, obviously something is carried over. It’s not, in the same way that going off on a tangent, that Henry Ford understood. A lot of things that were repeated now, you know, 100 years ago, that he was bang on the money with. That this desire for a certain aesthetic was around then, as it is now.

 

Greg Johnson: Yeah. It’s interesting. And there’s a lot that you can take from this in terms of inspiration. And one of the reasons why I published the two volumes of Bolton. One is called Artists of the Right. And the other has the scintillating title, More Artists of the Right. I came up with the title. I’m not blaming that [chuckling] on Bolton. It’s simply to provide examples for people who are in our sphere of great artists, because I would like to encourage our, an artistic renaissance, right.

 

I’d like to have more Rightist artists who are upholding our values, and putting them across in really striking ways! So we can learn a lot from these people. They’re great, great figures to be emulated.

 

So, and I’m glad that Sally’s [chuckling] just furiously googling [chuckling], right! That’s one of the reasons why I did this book. It’s mind expanding! It’s mind expanding to hear about all these figures that have been either forgotten about, or hidden, or covered up, or just talked about in a very much revisionist way. Because of the post-war consensus, that’s the sort of permafrost, that we have to dig our way through to find all these interesting frozen mammoths underneath.

 

Natty: Mark, I’ve shared, I’ve shared a picture of Wyndham Lewis. So if you bring that up the audience can tell me. Tell me Woes isn’t channeling this guy! [chuckling] right! I don’t know if anyone else can see that. But yeah! That was my first, …

 

 

Greg Johnson: Coca-Cola, and a blue bathrobe!

 

Natty: [laughing] Yeah, straight up! Yeah. I was, in fact, going back to your the point you just made. You said that we need to bring these people out. And there are people like this who exist at the moment, right. But one of the, I think halfway through one of the speeches in the book, I was going to ask you a question that basically our pressing need. And the fact that the dissident Right and whatever you call this kind of movement, where we are now, we’re so pressed. And so hounded, that the art, or the art that’s coming out of this Right-wing space.

 

And I know there are artists, there’s Hireath, there’s Patriarch. And all these people who are making great art on our side of things, are less prominent than the kind of political speakers. And people who can kind of make sense of what’s going on, and react to the politics of the day. And that’s one of the reasons why although these people do exist, they’re less prominent. If that makes sense as a question, I’ll put that to you.

 

[50:20]

 

Greg Johnson: Well, I think that we have our own media now. And it would be nice to make these people more present. We have to do that. In the past these people were more mainstream, there’s no question about it. We can build on the fact that they were so mainstream. We can build on the fact that WBA, …

 

Mark Collett: You can say that. I just the want to say, as a counter to what you are saying. Like I really enjoy pushing, we heavily push artists, musicians, etc., anyone that produces music, or art that comes to us, we push it. But generally within our community, I find that is one of the things that is least taken up by the community as a whole.

 

So we have people now who are producing nationalist computer games, producing nationalist art, like the Patriart, producing wonderful nationalist music, like Haireth, and many other people. And I’ve done shows with the White Art Collective, with the Patriotic Arts Community, which is our version of that here in the UK. And those streams don’t seem to be as well received in terms of numbers of viewers, as say other streams.

 

And I’m not saying that we should dump the art, or anything like that. But how would we get more people into that. How can we get, … Because I do think it would be great for us to capture these sort of fields. I think it would be wonderful if we could make fantastic computer games, if we could make fantastic short films, beautiful music. If we could paint inspiring pictures, produce digital art that captured the imagination.

 

I think all of those things are very, very important. But that does seem to be a lower uptake. And I think it’s important that we do these things, because we need to create our own true counter culture that serves our people. So that we aren’t as tied to the system. So we’re not consuming the system’s version of this art.

 

Natty: I think it’s, I genuinely think it’s what I described. That the system that we live under makes so little sense, and is such a inversion of the natural order, that we crave for those of us who aren’t deep thinkers, and have other things going on lives, we crave just people who make sense of it. And can order things. And that mostly comes in the form of, like the Right wing thinkers, like Morgoth, or like your short videos Mark, where you just rip into the Tory Party, or some political event that’s happened that week, or something like that.

 

So people given everything else, and we’re bombarded with just lies all the time, it’s more important for people who like us find themselves under the boot of this system that makes absolutely no sense, is that some like an abstract art, or a song with a kind of subtle anti-system message is less important than someone who’s just going to say:

 

“This is why Ukraine is such a load of nonsense. This is why Monkeypox is such a load of nonsense. This is why they’re doing this on Covid.”

 

I think if we weren’t so hemmed in, if we weren’t so pressed on all sides, I think as we gain traction – if that ever happens as we expand – that desire to, I don’t know, to kind of show our show our victories in art would become more persistent, and more front and centre. If that makes sense.

 

Greg Johnson: I think the best fusion that we have of visual art and political commentary is the “meme”. And we do the best memes! Nobody beats the memes coming from our political sphere. And that is a kind of art! And there’s a lot of talent that goes into that. A lot of time goes into creating some of these. And I don’t think it should be disdained.

 

I want there to be more musicians. Definitely we need more musicians. We need more people writing novels. I swear once a week somebody sends me a novel that [chuckling] sort of like the Turner Diaries! At least once a week I get something like that, ….

 

 

[55:04]

 

Mark Collett: Yeah, you joke about that. But we have had some, … Okay, I’ll give you another one. The biz-archives. We did the biz-archives, Volume One here. Where these nationalists have come together and produced these sort of Pulp Fiction style, short stories, horror stories. And I think they’re great.

 

And if you’re talking about art as well, and you’re talking about some modern art. If you look at sort of fascist, or nationalist, World War II recruitment posters, I suppose there was a modernist twist to those as well. And I do think some of those were quite striking so I do see where you’re coming from in the fact that a certain strand of modern art is associated with nationalism. And I think we can do something like this.

 

But one thing you sort of bothered me then, sort of Natty laughed, you said that you get a deluge of books which are sort of like a bargain basement Turner Diaries. But that’s something that I do find quite worrying. That if we were to produce art, or books, we would express ourselves in such a way. And we laughed about that. But I do find that sort of genuinely quite worrying.

 

Greg Johnson: Well the point is that people are trying, and that seems to be the model [chuckling] that a lot of people go to! They want to do their race war novel! And I think as a genre that’s a little overplayed. And it would be cool if people would write other kinds of fiction, that doesn’t [chuckling] involve extensive descriptions of weapons, [chuckling] and explosions, and stuff like that. So yeah, there’s more work to be done.

 

Basically one of the ways that I like to describe the project of Counter-Currents, is that Counter-Currents is about everything from our point of view. And it’s about the whole tradition, the whole tradition of the West. Because ultimately we’re the only legitimate heirs for the whole tradition.

 

And these nitwits who are running our societies are basically they are bound and determined by their own principles whether they know it, or not, to liquidate our entire tradition, our entire civilization! Which they’re busily working on. We’re the only people who are the legitimate heirs of this. We’re the only people who will take care of it. And we’re the only people who can carry it forward.

 

And that means that every kind of fiction, every genre of novel, mystery novels. Mystery novels about horse racing [chuckling]! Romance novels! Every possible genre, young adult fiction, sci-fi, everything is ours for the taking! We’re the legitimate heirs. Our stamp can be put on everything. And we need to go out there and take it. And it would be good for people who want to explore writing fiction to say:

 

“Okay, well why not do sci-fi? Not another Turner Diaries. Let’s do sci-fi. Let’s do, …”

 

Natty: Greg, you know, you end up with just the sci-fi version of the Turner diary, set 200 years in the future! [chuckling] Right!

 

Greg Johnson: Well that’s why I’m worried about that a little bit. And there’s no question about that. How about Romance novels? Bodice rippers, right? We need to take the whole culture back!

 

Mark Collett: I’d like to see something positive! I’d like to see, you know, something that was maybe a vision of Western man conquering the stars, in like a futuristic version of the Roman Empire, going out there and taking Western civilization to a new level.

 

I do think one of the things that marrs the nationalist expression of our artistic souls. Is that often we express ourselves in a negative way. And joking aside, you know, obviously the Turner Diaries, it is negative. I mean, it’s a notorious book. But it is very, very negative. And it’s steeped in the sort of things that if you put your heart and soul into those things you probably are going to come out the other side, not in the best way. It’ll drag you down that kind of negativity.

 

But I do think that there is a way for us to express ourselves in a very positive manner through art. And I think one thing that art should be, if produced for our cause, is something that should be uplifting. It’s something that should make you feel like you want to get involved in the cause. That you want to do more for the cause.

 

And we’ve mentioned him tonight, the Patriarch. I mean, he doesn’t get really a lot of, a huge amount of praise. I mean, we praise him! We have him on our shows. But his digital art is absolutely fantastic! And he did a piece of art for St George’s Day. It was absolutely stunning!

 

And I think things like, that are uplifting, could actually be something that is not only art, but is a vital tool in our arsenal to promote ourselves. Because I think art can bring people into the cause. It can raise people’s spirits. It can be something that inspires people to do more. I think art doesn’t just have the function of being beautiful, or being there to be aesthetically pleasing, or to hang on a wall, and look at occasionally. It can be something that spurs men on to do greater things. And men that aren’t necessarily artistic themselves.

 

[61:01]

 

Greg Johnson: One thing that’s happened in recent years is that art has become so tendentious and politically correct, that you’re almost a reactionary, and you’re judged as a reactionary, simply for telling a straightforward story without sticking some blatant messaging in there. I’m thinking about The Northman, which I saw last week, and talked about with Gregory Hood last night. People are criticizing this, because it’s a movie about Vikings that doesn’t have any woke messaging in it.

 

 

Well, because how could you get woke messaging in a movie about Vikings, right? [chuckling]. I mean, that’s now considered reactionary! So at a certain point just any good story becomes subversive of the current paradigm it doesn’t even have to have a political message. A good story that doesn’t have a political message is now a political message! It’s now being politicized and being decried.

 

So folks, if you just love to tell stories and you’re good at it and want to be hugely successful, just do stories that don’t put up a particular point of view. And they’ll denounce you as a reactionary anyway, at this point!

 

Natty: I was going to say, the books that we, …. I mean, we’re all roughly of an age here, some of us are slightly older than others, but the books that we read as kids growing up. I remember one series of books called the Puddle Lane. This might be before, or after some of your times. And some of you may have read this. I kind of imagine that maybe Mark I think you’re a little bit older than me. Laura, roughly I think you’re the same age as me. But these Puddle Lane books were fantastic. And they’re kind of magical, very like European folktalesly kind of books. There were dragons in them and wooden boys who got made real, and magicians, and all this other stuff.

 

But to be released today you would never find those books! And I know we talked about this last month about the folktales book that we reviewed. You would never find them on the bookshelves in Waterstones, or Amazon, or anywhere. the types of books you’re going to see when you go in there. So Greg’s right. It would be subversive to the current system to produce a book with just White people in it, and no other messaging whatsoever!

 

Greg Johnson: Yeah a book where Heather has a mommy and a daddy!

 

Natty: Yes, yeah, exactly! [chuckling]

 

Greg Johnson: Subversive.

 

Natty: Yeah, there’s I’ve got nieces and nephews. And there’s a series called JoJo & Gran Gran. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’ve got the name wrong. But it’s about like a young black girl with like a black grandmother. And it doesn’t, it never explains where her mom is, or her dad is, or anything like this. It’s like, why is this. Now the thing? Why is this a norm? Like fair enough people may find themselves in that situation. But that’s not something that shouldn’t be the norm to be aspired to.

 

Laura Towler: I’ve seen that, yeah, is it JoJo & Gran Gran, or something? My niece was watching it on TV the other day. And I went to read it to see if the person who wrote it belonged to a certain ethnic group. I think it’s written by a black woman. And they make like a really conscious effort to get diversity in there. So like when the kid gets on the bus with her grandma the bus driver will be like a woman wearing a burqa, instead of just a White man, like it normally is. And it’s just so off-putting, because everything just seems the opposite of what it should be.

 

But it’s one of those ones where they just really try to make everything like pro-feminism and pro-immigration and they went to a museum actually in the episode that I watched. And I would say that probably about 75 percent of the cartoon characters that were drawn in it were non-White. It’s just crazy! It’s just mental!

 

But it’s all this subliminal stuff that they’re showing kids in that. They’ll grow up now thinking:

 

“Oh that’s what it’s like.”

 

And obviously it’s not. Yet.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah, I just, look I gotta jump in here, because obviously Sophia’s at the age where these books sort of attempt to weasel their way into our house. And we’ve had the old free book given to her which I’ve swiftly put into the recycling bin, because they are such trash!

 

And Laura made a really important point and I want other people [chuckling] to comment on this because. This is something that I just think is sort of it makes me roll my eyes. But it is also enraging! It’s also a complete and not a joke! You will have, like you say, diversity pushed into the book. So at least 50% of the people on every page, usually pushing two-thirds, will be non-White.

 

But the non-Whites will be pushed into roles that they typically wouldn’t have. So you’ll see like a bus with children going past a building site. And like you say there’ll be a woman in a burqa with a hi-vis vest, you know, applying cement with a trowel, building a house. And you’re thinking:

 

“I have never in my life seen a woman on a building site with a trowel and cement, let alone a woman in a burqa on a building site with a trowel and cement!”

 

And is it just me, or are these things pushed to the point of parody, and absurdity? Like, if I was doing a parody book about multiculturalism, aiming to mock and deride multiculturalism, and mock and deride, the way it’s pushed into every facet of our lives, I would have a woman in a burqa on a building site, next to a builder with his butt crack out, both of them applying cement. And you’d see reality juxtaposed with this multicultural fantasy, for the laughs! But then you actually read these children’s books. And that is how absurd it is. Is this just me, or are you guys seeing this stuff too?

 

[67:50]

 

Natty: You wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between your parody and the real thing, I’m afraid Mark.

 

Mark Collett: And I do think. I mean, we’re saying here obviously one of Bowden’s thing here is you shouldn’t hold on to the past. That modernism isn’t necessarily bad but something that Greg said at the beginning of the show about archiving. Well I’ll tell you this. Now, I do believe in archiving.

 

And I would urge anyone out there, if you have small children, or if you have children who have small children, or if you have brothers and sisters who have small children, or if you’re part of a community where small children are around, get yourself down to charity shops get yourself on Ebay, and archive old books, like the Puddle Lane books, Rupert the Bear, Wind in the Willows, Noddy, all of these wonderful old books. The Ladybug classics with things like Town Mouse Meets Country Mouse.

 

All of these books which were at one point a staple of sort of children’s education, learning, and also enjoyment, look after these things, because all of these are going down the memory hole! I don’t know if anyone wants to comment on that.

 

Laura Towler: Yeah. I think that’s why, I think it was you Mark that said at the start, that having Bowden’s words written down instead of listening to him speak it’s not the same. And I agree with you. It’s not the same as watching him live which I never had the opportunity to do while just watching, or listening to one of his speeches that were recorded.

 

But with a book that can never take that away from you. You’ve got it forever. Even if you had to say like a video recording, or a DVD recording. One day they could turn your electricity off, or something could happen so that you couldn’t watch it again. But with a book it’s yours to own forever. It’s immortal really.

 

So I do think it is important to get these things written down. And also preserve old books as well. And we’ve got Claremore books as well, haven’t we at PA. They’re reprinting some books that are old, or books that are unobtainable nowadays. So that we have a hard copy of them.

 

But yeah, it’s why, you know, organizations like Counter-Currents are so important, because they’re doing such fantastic work.

 

Mark Collett: So shall we get back to Bowden’s books? Because Natty I really feel that we’re doing ourselves a disservice here if you’re not doing most of the speaking, because you did say you’ve got more notes on this one book than you have on any other book that we’ve reviewed.

 

So what were your other thoughts, getting back to the main topic in hand, which is this particular book? What are the notes have you got? What other things did you find important to take away from this work?

 

Natty: So the thing is. I mean, one of the problems we’ve got is that I would be questioning. I mean, these notes here really should be answered by Bowden. But seeing as how you knew Bowden, and Greg you’ve probably spent more time putting this together, you probably will be good, these will be good for discussion.

 

Firstly, presumably. And I think you touched on this Greg at the beginning. There’s loads more Jonathan Bowden stuff that could be compiled into other books. So, for instance, this is Bowden on Reactionary Modernism in art. But presumably there’s more that you could collate into like books by Bowden, or Bowden speeches about certain other subjects. Am I right in thinking that?

 

Greg Johnson: Yeah, absolutely! I’ve done four volumes now. The first one’s called Pulp Fascism. It’s about basically Rightist themes in popular fiction, including comic books, and graphic novels, and pulp novels.

 

 

Then the second. One is called Western Civilization Bites Back. And those are speeches that deal more with the moral malaise at the heart of White decline.

 

 

The third one is called Extremists. And it’s portraits of extremist figures, Julius Evola, Enuzio [sp] who could have gone into this volume as another modernist reactionary writer. Savitri Devi, Yukio Mishima, another modernist writer who could have gone in this collection too.

 

So I put this together, because well it just made sense to group things under that rubric that he did. And the next volume I’m going to do is sort of a miscellany. I’m having trouble coming up with like a single theme. So I’m just gonna call it, The Cultured Thug. Which is a phrase that he used. And it’ll be just a collection of speeches and essays that I haven’t been able to [chuckling] fit into other categories! And then there’s a whole bunch of political speeches out there. And another book’s worth of interviews, too.

 

So I think in the end I will publish seven volumes of Bowden. Maybe eight if more political speeches come to light. Because I kind of don’t want to publish like a book up close to 400 pages. It’s just too big a read. So I might break up the political speeches into a couple more manageable volumes. But there’s a lot more out there.

 

And I’m hoping that things will come to light. A few years ago more, some lectures came to light that I was delighted to get. So I think there’s still a few other things out there by Jonathan, recordings that we might get our hands on. He worked with a number of different people that I’ve had difficulty tracking down. And so as some of these people turn up, or some of these people finally respond to me, I think more stuff will definitely come to light.

 

Natty: Good stuff! Good stuff. Well, I’ve got I think this is probably going to open it up. But this is one of these things where someone kind of reaches out from the past, although not the too distant past, and talks about themes that we know today. And I’m going to see if we can guess this. I’m going to read a passage. But in this part of the book Bowden’s speech is, he’s talking about TS Eliot. And he’s saying that the ideas that pervade today what we loosely define as wokeness, or Cultural Marxism, political correctness, were spoken about in tiny little groups, you know, tiny meetings of kind of dissident, or outcasts from the mainstream, you know, 100 years, or so, ago, or even more. That now pervade the culture. And how the reverse is now true. Where we’re the ones talking about our ideas in tiny little groups.

 

I’m going to read this. He’s talking about this. He says, … This is Bowden talking now. He says:

 

“These tiny little groups said to almost recognize each other with strange little handshakes and little nods, winks, and so on. You have to remember the pressure these people were under psychologically in the 1920s and 30s, …”

 

Obviously fascism’s on the rise:

 

“Everything that they liked was detested by the mainstream. They are in favour of atheism. They are in favour of dehumanization. They favoured it in a different way, because mass immigration hadn’t come about then. But they were in favour of various forms of multiculturalism as it would have been defined in that era. They are in favour of homosexuality. They’re in favour of the decline of the marriage bond. They’re in favour of alternative lifestyles and relationships as a norm. They’re in favour of drug usage and it’s privatization, if you like, in terms of a moral space. They’re in favour of all of the things which have come to pass, with the possible exception of euthanasia.”

 

That was Jonathan Bowden. And I would add to that they were also in favour of some of the things that are coming to pass, of paedophilia as well, because that’s one of the things that’s now everything that Jonathan Bowden says that these people are in favour of that were repressed in the 20s and 30s, have now come to pass. And are now just completely mainstream.

 

And euthanasia is, I mean, it’s being discussed now as well. You can go to Switzerland and get yourself killed. But presumably if they can’t crack the paedophilia issue, that might be one of the next areas they could move on to and break open as like a cultural, like another crack in the culture of Western civilization.

 

What do you guys think of that?

 

Greg Johnson: Well I think the reason why he tells that story is to give us hope. Because these people started out with mutterings in tiny rooms, and tiny low circulation journals. Things like that. Organizing groups of marginal people. It seemed like a hopeless, thankless, task. It seemed like they were up against a massive, unbending, establishment that was against them. And yet a hundred years later they are dominant! Their values have won out.

 

And if they can do it, we can do it! That’s the point he’s making. If they can do it, we can do it. And we can do it in the same way. And it’s an argument for our long march through the institutions. His argument for us taking art, and philosophy, and political theory, and meta-politics in general, very, very seriously! Not just thinking that:

 

“Oh dear! There are 12 of us. We’re doomed!”

 

No! There are 12 of us, the world is ours! Right? Just think what Jesus Christ did with 12 people, one of whom betrayed him [chuckling] right? That’s the attitude that one has to have. Things start small. The longest journey begins with a single step. World revolutionizing movements begin with tiny groups of people speaking in taverns, in meeting rooms, or now on the internet. And we’re doing the right thing, in other words and we should be of good cheer, and have hope that this is going to produce results!

 

And indeed it’s produced amazing results just in the past few years. Just think about the fact that the Great Replacement has gone mainstream. That’s huge! Pushing back against Critical Race Theory has gone mainstream. This is the stuff that we were talking about, out on the margins, only a few years ago. And now it’s gone mainstream. So we just need to keep doing what we’re doing. And eventually we’re going to win!

 

Mark Collett: Can I ask Natty. Did you say there that you think their next big push will be to normalize paedophilia?

 

Natty: Well, yeah. I mean, they’re already pushing for this. I mean, I don’t have anything prepared here, but at a cursory glance through Telegram, or if anyone’s active on Telegram. There are, in fact, Mark I think you shared something a few weeks ago of an ethnic Professor talking about this. And it seems to me that there are certain, not exactly mainstream publications, fringe publications that are stopping using the word “paedophilia”, and are starting using MAP, which is Minor Attracted Person, in order to soften this and try and link it with the LGBT

 

Mark Collett: Yeah! And they also have another one as well called N-O-M-A-P, which is Non-Offending Minor Attracted Person. So what they’re trying to do as well, is say that here are people that are attracted to minors. And here are, almost trying to say there’s a good group of those people, because they are, you know, “non-offending”, or “non-practicing”. And they’ve taken this vow of celibacy. But they’re not rapists!

 

Greg Johnson: Yeah, we should congratulate them, and give them gold stars, because they’re not rapists!

 

Mark Collett: Yeah, and this, …

 

Greg Johnson: Pat on the back please!

 

Natty: I’ve got gold stars for them [Laughter]!

 

Greg Johnson: Oh dear! I didn’t mean it in that precise way! Literally no pun intended!

 

Mark Collett: No. I mean, I find this a horrific thing to be talking about. What we’re talking about here is a group of people who are fundamentally paedophiles. That’s what they are. Paedophiles! They are absolutely 110 percent, you know, sick, you know, degenerate, vile, horrid, people who are basically preying on children. That is exactly what we have! And this is being normalized! This is being turned into another sexual preference. But it won’t end here.

 

There is also a movement as well to normalize bestiality. There’s also a movement in place that seeks to normalize sex with animals, and try to claim that it can be consensual. There is a movement to do that.

 

And I think these are two of the final big taboos that they want to knock down. And they’re already trying to frame, … It’s a fact! It’s funny you talk about this, because when I first started making my informative, little short snappy videos, one of the earliest ones I did and it eventually got banned off YouTube, before my whole channel got terminated.

 

But it was about the link between the LGBT movement and paedophilia. And how one would inevitably lead to the other. Because the argument for LGBT rights is exactly the same argument that will be used for the rights of people who want to carry out acts of bestiality, animal abuse, or child abuse. Because the fundamental underlying argument that normalizes the LGBT movement is that:

 

“People can’t help how they feel!”

 

And that if you can’t help how you feel, then expressing how you feel, can’t be wrong either. Because you can’t criminalize something that people can’t help. So, …

 

Greg Johnson: But yes, you can. I mean, the big difference is that people say well look it’s between consenting adults right. That’s the kind of libertarian argument for consensual same-sex relationships. Consensual same-sex relationships are between consenting adults. You can’t have that with animals. And you can’t have that with kids. So that crosses a line.

 

Mark Collett: No, no. This is where you misunderstand it. Now this is where you’re misunderstanding Greg. The first step towards this will be, okay. So the other party can’t consent. But we live in a day and age where virtual material, computer generated material, can be produced, where nobody is harmed. That will be the first step.

 

And the second step towards this. And you should have seen this, everyone should have seen this coming, is we are already seeing in schools – there’s 240 schools primary schools in Britain that are already teaching what they call self-stimulation – which is teaching children to masturbate, which is sickening.

 

And they already are teaching these children the fundamentals of “consent”. Now that’s a very odd thing to be teaching a child, isn’t it? The fundamentals of consent. But I believe that they’re teaching these children in inverted commas “the fundamentals of consent”, because eventually they hope to be able to say that children can consent, and legalize something, which is absolutely demonic!

 

And I think what also goes hand in hand with what I’m saying, what is also part of this agenda, is the trans agenda. Because what you have here we have a country where it is illegal to drive until you’re 17. It is illegal to buy, or consume alcohol until you’re 18. It is illegal to have any form of sex until you’re 16.

 

But, you can now decide that you want to transition your gender. You want to change your gender! You want to have life-changing irreversible surgery at any age! And I believe all this is leading to some inverted commas “experts” saying that children can indeed consent.

 

And I believe they are moving rapidly already towards this. And what Natty said was extremely wise, because what Natty was saying, is that they are already in the rebranding phase. And we see these rebranding phases hitting everything.

 

So we’ve seen multiple rebrandings of migration. You’ve got migrants, illegal immigrants. But now you call them “undocumented people”. And it’s constantly softening the terms you use to make people accept something more. So calling these people MAPs, or NOMAPs, is a way to soften public perception. To create a fluffy term around something which couldn’t be less fluffy. There couldn’t be more sickening, that couldn’t be more unconscionable, that couldn’t be more stomach churning and evil!

 

But they want to rebrand this. So fundamentally people will see it as another sexual preference, as another part of that rainbow alphabet, which already has a 196 genders! And all of these other different colours, and names. It’s very sinister. But it’s happening.

 

[87:05]

 

Greg Johnson: Yeah here’s the thing. I think that this might be the undoing of the progressive agenda though. In the sense that the transsexual stuff is so patently insane that it’s causing cracks in the Left political blocs, the Left political coalitions. This is certainly true in the United States, where people of colour, blacks and Hispanics, and so forth, used to be very reliable votes for the Left block. And now this trans stuff is being pushed so heavily that some of them are in rebellion against that.

 

So the trans stuff is patently insane! The paedophilia stuff is threatening people’s kids. Maybe I’m being optimistic. I mean, how many people just allow their kids to be basically abused psychologically, abused and tormented, for decades. So maybe they won’t snap at paedophilia? I don’t know! But I do think that they’re, …

 

Mark Collett: What do you mean, maybe they won’t snap? These are the same people that are taking their children to Drag Queens’ Story Hour. These are the same people who will sit, …

 

Greg Johnson: Oh look! I mean, these are shit-libs. I’m talking about the general normie public here.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah, but the problem with the general normie public, is the general normal public are herded by the people you call shit-libs.

 

Greg Johnson: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Because the general normie public are the ones that if they see two gay men fondling each other, semi-naked gay men fondling each other in the street at the gay pride parade, it will turn their stomachs. But because the shit-libs, as you call them, will say:

 

“Speaking out against that makes you homophobic!”

 

People keep their heads down and walk on. And my concern is that as time goes by. And as we see this progression, what we’re going to end up seeing here guys is some term coming into existence. Sort of whether it would be “pedophobic”. I don’t know, or something like that. And this will be applied as a pejorative, which will scare people away from ultimately speaking out against something, that everyone should be speaking out against!

 

I mean, that has happened. That’s why you go to these gay pride events. And I don’t go to them. But you see footage from these gay pride events, where you have grown men walking down the street with their bits hanging out, parading their partner who’s dressed as a dog, down the street! And this isn’t seen as something that you should call the police. If you called the police and said:

 

“Look there’s an indecent act taking place in the middle of my High Street, the police should turn up and arrest you!

 

Greg Johnson: Yeah, [chuckling] I think that maybe we need a movement to shame “rapophobes”, right? Rapophobia is one of the great irrational fears of our time! And we need a movement to shame that. I mean, you’re right people are being pushed by these people. The question is will they continue to be pushed forever, or will there be pushback? I think this is a great opportunity for pushing back. And I think there’s been a lot of success in pushing back against this. And I do think that there are cracks building in the Left-wing coalition, because of stuff like this.

 

Because the people who are in the establishment, can’t say no to these crazies, right? So we have Admiral Rachel Levine, now, in the United States! That’s not his real name! [chuckling] He’s not a Rachel!

 

But anyway, yeah. So but let’s go back to Bowden, because I’m wondering are there folks out there in radio land who have questions and maybe Superchats connected, …

 

Mark Collett: There’s only two Superchats. There’s only Superchats tonight. So we will read them. The first is from Reed Johnson who gave ten dollars. Thank you so much. He said:

 

“When you’re so buzzed on a streaming day, it’s exercise live stream, then continue exercising. PA and Counter-Currents together again. The pride of the Right as it should be.”

 

Well, thank you so much for your kind Superchat. And we have one more from Gaddius Maximus, who gives 10 US dollars. And he says:

 

“What is the panel’s favourite recorded Bowden speech?”

 

And I’ll start with you Natty.

 

Natty: I don’t actually know what the speech is called. But there’s a fantastic video that did the rounds a couple of years ago made by Nativist Concern, who I think still does the film reviews for PA. In which Nativist Concern has put together a series of clips of traditional masculinity, heroism, European excellence. There’s kind of long distance cyclists in there. There’s marching British soldiers on parade with all the brass, you know, helmets and buttons and everything polished, looking fantastic.

 

Which actually Bowden talks about in the final bit of this book, in regards to Turner and the return to kind of classical art. Where instead of promoting being a loser and a degenerate, you’re promoting the ideal man. You know, strength, beauty, the perfect aesthetic, basically. And overlaid in this video that Nativist made is a Jonathan Bowden speech that ends with:

 

“We can be great again!”

 

And it’s fantastic! And the way, … I guess I’m giving more praise to Nativist Concern here, than Bowden. But that’s my favourite speech, and I duck back to that video every so often. I’ll try and find the link for it as we go around the group, anyway.

 

Mark Collett: Laura have you listened to any Bowden speeches?

 

Laura Towler: Yeah, well, I’ve read more than I’ve listened to. I read them on Counter-Currents when they’re transcribed on there. I think my favourite, I like the ones that he does at the BNP meetings where he just kind of critiques the current government. And I think there’s one called The Failure of Liberalism, or something like that, that I particularly enjoyed.

 

And I’ve also listened to one where he was talking about the education system and how it’s very liberal. And it’s quite dangerous to be a Right-wing, or a nationalist Professor in the universities and stuff like that. I enjoyed that one. But I don’t know what it’s called.

 

And I’ve seen the Nativist video, as well, that Natty just mentioned. And that is very good.

 

 

Natty: I think it’s called Liberalism is Moral Syphilis, if anyone wants to look it up. I think it’s on Odysee.

 

Aunt Sally: I’ve watched a few of his speeches and I can’t think of which one. But is it him that said:

 

“What did they die for?”

 

That one to me is the one that sticks in my head. Those words stick in my head. [words unclear]

 

Mark Collett: I can’t hear what you’re saying at all. And we’re getting really bad feedback from you as well. Could you come a bit closer to the mic?

 

[95:02]

 

Aunt Sally: Okay, is that any better?

 

Mark Collett: That’s much better.

 

Aunt Sally: I’m sorry about this. Yeah is it him that said:

 

“What did they die for?”

 

Was it Bowden? Was it one of his speeches?

 

Mark Collett: I’m not sure.

 

Aunt Sally: I think it was. I’ve seen it somewhere. It’s talking about the soldiers in the war and saying:

 

“What did they die for? What was the point? What did they die for?”

 

And that one stuck in my head. I think it was him.

 

Greg Johnson: My favourite Bowden recordings are one called Credo: A Nietzschean Testament. It’s unfortunate that the audio quality isn’t great. But it’s an amazing talk! And another favourite of mine is Western Civilization Bites Back, which I had the pleasure of actually attending. And both of those are in a volume that I edited called Western Civilization Bites Back, of Bowden’s talks.

 

And the thread that joins them all together is basically how they deal with, … Basically it’s the moral problem that’s behind Western decline. We can’t take our own side anymore! [chuckling] We’ve been told to despise ourselves. We’ve been taught self-hatred, and self-doubt, and things like that. And how we need to get over that. So that’s a very, very good collection of essays. And some of his most inspirational talks.

 

Mark Collett: Well my favourite speech, is a very different one. It was after the demise of the BNP, Jonathan Bowden gave, … Well the BNP’s still going, what’s left of it. Jonathan Bowden gave a scathing kind of assessment of why the British National Party went down. And I think the speech was actually. I don’t even know if it’s still on YouTube.

 

 

When it was on YouTube it was actually time this is how long it must have been uploaded to YouTube, because it was actually in multiple parts. So originally YouTube, you could only put up sort of videos that were about either 10, or 15 minutes long. And people who wanted to upload longer videos, you’d sort of have, so and so’s speech part one of three, or one of four, or something. And I think this was in multiple parts. And I liked that speech, because I remember Jonathan going around the country as the BNP was declining.

 

And Jonathan was someone who spoke out about the problems the BNP were facing. He was very, very anti the man who was in charge of the party. And he had some very, very interesting takes, and some very humourous takes. And his eccentricities came through during those speeches. But it also showed a sort of different side of Bowden, because Bowden was somebody who had some great takes on certain things which were, how can I say it, very “academic”. But he also was quite a sharp political thinker, an organizer.

 

And he was one of those people that actually could apply himself to the real world. He wasn’t just an academic. Many academics are quite out of touch with reality, but he wasn’t. And I did enjoy those speeches. And it takes me back to a time, probably about a decade, or so, ago now. Maybe just over a decade ago, when things have taken a turn for the worst in the party. But there were quite a few people fighting back against that. And Jonathan was one of those.

 

And Jonathan also, regardless of the fortunes of nationalism at the time, … Because nationalism’s fortunes have ebbed and flowed over a period of time. Obviously we have ups and downs. I mean, you only have to look at the number of viewers that my small shows get. They go up and down! They go up and down. And you have something like the summer of BLM and your streams are being watched by thousands and thousands more people, than they would be if you have a time like now, where unfortunately I feel that at the moment post Covid, there seems to have been quite a few people who were new to the movement, were enjoying everything during Covid. But now life’s gone a bit more back to normal. And there’s no real big single issue dominating the papers that directly affects people along racial, or ethnic lines. People sort of drift off a little bit.

 

[100:00]

 

And Jonathan was one of those people who never drifted off! Jonathan was one of those people who rode the waves. He was there when you’re at the peak of a crest, riding it all the way. But when the wind wasn’t blowing as much and you’re in the doldrums, and you were sort of becalmed, as it were, Jonathan would be there on the ship. And he would still be chirpy. He would still be upbeat. He’d still have a good perspective on something.

 

And those speeches to me were quite indicative him as a man. He was a guy that never gave up his nationalism! He never gave up on this cause! He never gave up on his people! Nationalism was his life, for good, for bad, for better, for worse! He was in it for the long haul!

 

And as so many people have come into our ranks and left over say the last five, or six years, especially post-trump, Jonathan was a man that lived this. And his contribution should be kept alive today. And that’s why it’s good we’re talking about him.

 

But those speeches to me were very important, because obviously I was part of the British National Party. So yeah, I really enjoyed those.

 

We’ve got another Superchat here. This is from Trish 65-535. And she gave 14 pounds. Thank you so much Trish. She said:

 

“Sorry late to the party. But what I’ve heard is based. Thanks.”

 

Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much. And remember. If you want to ask any non-paid questions, people can ask non-paid questions as well through the Entropy chat. So if you want to do that feel free to. Obviously we are having a bit of a, this is sort of gone a bit off piste at different times.

 

I definitely would like to get Natty on an actual PWR again sometime soon. I definitely would enjoy a, maybe a whole stream, talking about the way this sexual revolution has led to the madness we’ve got on to. But obviously tonight’s not the place for that.

 

So before we go and do our final round ups, because there’s only about 15 minutes, or so of the stream left, is there anything anyone who’s read the book would like to bring up now? Is there anything additional that people would like to bring up, now?

 

Natty: I’ve got one more section of the book I want to read and get your takes on. So I don’t want to spin it off for too long. So if anyone else has anything, then we’ll do that first. But I’ll let anyone else go first, if they want to.

 

Mark Collett: No, no, no! You seem to be the man who’s got the most notes. So take the floor my friend.

 

Natty: Okay, so in his speech about TS Eliot, he talks about, I’m paraphrasing here. But he says, Jonathan Bowden says:

 

“It amazes me how when Margaret Thatcher took power the National Theatre put on a show called, The Unkindest Cut of All, in which Thatcher basically gets executed.”

 

And the Tories who were at that time this mean, nasty, Right-wing party, allowed this to happen. This kind of show where Thatcher gets executed. Which kind of is reminiscent of, … I don’t know if you remember this a couple of years ago, Kathy Griffin got in trouble for holding up the severed head of Trump. Although I don’t know if she did get in trouble, maybe she didn’t. But in response to this kind of happening, Bowden says:

 

“The Tories are completely culturally witless, except in private life, where you have often highly nuanced and educated men of Alan Clarke type. Although he was unusual in all sorts of ways and a cultural gap like that. But there is a degree to which the Tories have never understood what the enemy is, and who the enemy is. They’ve never understood how you engage in cultural struggle. They’ve never understood the importance of culture. Only the Left and the extreme right understand the importance of cultural struggle. The liberal centre has inherited the extreme left partiality for it.”

 

Now obviously Bowden died in 2012. We’ve seen, and I know that we’ve spent a lot of time talking about this recently. How the Tories aren’t just witless, kind of victims of this push to progressivism. How they’ve basically imported millions and millions of “refugees”.

 

And they’ve been party to basically this cultural decline in this country, despite a few good men still being in the Tory Party. Most of them have been kicked out. I can’t remember his name now. But there was a famous one recently, Roger Scrutton. That’s what I’m thinking of there were people like Roger Scrutton, who were the last vestiges of kind of this old school conservatism, who have now gone completely away, replaced by people like Boris Johnson, David Cameron, who stand for nothing, apart from the replacement of the British people. And the complete annihilation of us!

 

So in a way here, in my opinion, Bowden’s wrong! He’s saying that the Tories are basically witless. And they don’t understand. But, in my opinion, there was a core of the Conservative Party who did understand exactly what was going on, and were pushing it, right?

 

[105:13]

 

Mark Collett: I think it’s interesting what Bowden says there. And I’ve heard this from other people who are exconservatives, who were part of the Conservative Party. And somebody once said to me, who was part of the Conservative Party, that when the Conservatives won a vast majority at one point, this man asked:

 

“Well, now we’re in power, and we’ve got the majority, what are we going to reorientate what’s being taught in colleges and universities? How are we going to take these battlegrounds back, and stop them being lost to the Left? Because, if we lose these places to the Left, ultimately our children are going to be corrupted. And we will find it increasingly difficult to push our ideology in the future.”

 

And the answer he got back was simply:

 

“We aren’t gonna do anything. We’re not gonna do anything!”

 

And. I think there’s sort of two types of people that make up the Conservative Party. The first are people who are actually, by their nature, liberal, or Leftists, who wear the clothes of the conservative. They’re people like Boris Johnson. Boris Johnson who famously offered people a points-based immigration system, because his focus group testing told him that’s what people wanted to hear. And people thought it would be a system that was tough on immigrants. And it would placate people and win him a majority.

 

But as soon as he got into power he broke all immigration records, and just let Britain be completely flooded with more people than that have ever come here ever before! In any single year! Over a million people last year. Absurd! So there are people like him who are a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

 

And the other main body of conservatives are people who probably would, in private, agree with lots of what we say. But they just don’t want to rock the boat. They don’t want to rock the boat! They don’t want to endanger themselves, or their position, or the money they’re making.

 

And they understand that the people in charge of the Conservative Party are globalists! They are multiculturalists! They are degenerates! They are morally broken, or morally bent! And these people are just going to keep their heads down, keep making the money they can. And they think to themselves:

 

“Well, why would I give up my 84,000 pounds a year? Why would I give that up? I’m on 84 grand a year, plus all my expenses, plus a second house in London. If I don’t live in the capital already, the government pays my mortgage on that second house. I’ll sell it when I’m no longer a Minister. That’s a nice golden parachute for me. Plus I’ll get my Ministerial pension.”

 

Why would they rock the boat? And that’s the point. They don’t! You’ve got the people who are, I believe, fundamentally part of the globalist system. And then you’ve got a minority of Conservatives who probably are decent people behind closed doors, but are absolute cowards! And don’t want to mess up the sweet gravy train they’re on.

 

Does anyone else have any takes on that? Or, do you think I’ve hid it on the head? Or, do you think I’m being too charitable, or not charitably enough?

 

[108:35]

 

Greg Johnson: Well, that’s pretty much the same thing on this side of the pond, I’m afraid. The attitude of Republicans to the cultural struggle thing is if they control both Houses and the presidency and you recommend that they basically start trying to reorient higher education, the arts, and stuff like that, use the power of the federal government to do that and the power is awe-inspiring! It’s considerable. They’ll say:

 

“Let’s just cut their budgets!”

 

Basically what they’ll do is they’ll appeal to Philistinism:

 

“Ah, that’s just a bunch of high-minded crap! Let’s just cut their budgets. These people don’t matter.”

 

And then they never get around to cutting the budgets, of course, that’s just talk. But it prevents them from actually dealing with the issue. Or they’ll just be libertarian. They’ll be classical liberals. They’ll say:

 

“Well, we can’t really take any sides on these things. I mean, we’d be just as bad as the enemy!”

 

That kind of stuff. The common denominator is that they always come up with rationalizations for doing nothing on the cultural front. And they continue to lose. I think some of them are there to make sure that they continue to lose. There’s people placed in the Republican Party who basically are there to prevent it from becoming a real opposition to the Left. I’m 100% convinced of that!

 

And others are just weak, they’re just weak. They think somehow they’ll be a miracle. They can just keep doing the same self-defeating stuff over, and over, again. But somehow Jesus will reward them for being good sports, somehow, down the road. It’s utterly pathetic!

 

But Trump has changed the Republican Party in a lot of ways. There are a lot of people who are coming into the Republican Party and running for office who have more spine, and are willing to buck the consensus that the party used to have, which is not to question globalization, or multiculturalism. So there are some good things happening in the party.

 

And the best thing that can happen is just that these old cucks will either be defeated, or die out. And that’s happening in both ways. So there’s some positive change, frankly. And I hope some positive change happens in the UK too.

 

Mark Collett: I think we’re a long way off any positive change happening here my friend. And I’ll tell you why. Trump for all that some of our people may hate him, he was an outlier, and he wasn’t strictly part of the system. Obviously some of the things he did, many of our people won’t be happy with. And some of his affiliations, or some of his sympathies with Israel, people obviously aren’t happy about. But he did do something that was fundamentally brilliant. He did open up discussion on issues such as the Great Replacement, mass immigration, open borders.

 

And I don’t believe there is anybody in the Conservative Party today, let alone somebody with the influence that Trump ended up having, obviously he became President, who would ever, ever, open up that kind of debate. That is super taboo!

 

And if you look at Boris Johnson, what we’ve got here is we’ve got a Prime Minister who conned his way into power on the back of promises that he was going to be the man that finally got mass immigration under control. And he has since promised harsher, and harsher restrictions on immigrants. Harsher ways of dealing with illegal immigrants.

 

And what have we got? Record numbers of immigrants coming in! Not record numbers of immigrants going home! Not record numbers of immigrants being turned away! Not record lows of people crossing our border.

 

 

But just a few weeks ago, he was over in India offering an additional 200,000 visas to Indian tech workers. Well, that’s on top of the million he let in last year. I mean, what’s this year’s gonna be when we finally get the figure? 1.3 million, 1.4? I mean, sooner, or later it will hit two million. If it’s hit I million. If we breach that Rubicon of a million in a single year, it’s only a matter of time before it hits two. I don’t think we’re gonna ever be in that position that America was in. And a lot of people don’t like Trump. But there are a lot of reasons we should be happy for him.

 

But that brings this stream close to an end. So if Natty, Laura, and Aunt Sally, would all like to sum up on their thoughts on the book. And then we’ll call it a night.

 

Natty: Okay, there’s like I said, there’s loads more I could get into. Not the least of which is that every, almost every author in this book that Bowden goes into has had a kind of modern smear job done on them, simply for associating with the Right in the 20s the 30s and the 40s, and, or, naming the jews in some way, or other.

 

I mean, TS Eliot gets off the lightest, because it was like one transcript of a speech he did, or one piece of writing that he did that just mentions them. And then they tried to do a hit job on them, which failed. But again we haven’t gone into it. And there’s not really time to go into it anymore.

 

But this is like the one, the kind of Sauron of our world. You can’t name him, you can’t look at him, you can’t touch him. Anything you’d say to do with them, just brings this kind of massive like auto-immune response from the body politic! Where you just get attacked and demonized. And they’ll try and destroy your life.

 

So if nothing else to take away from this, that’s one constant that runs through all of this. It didn’t matter that these guys were producing a different type of art. It didn’t matter about what kind of art which we’ve argued about here today, [chuckling] the relative strengths, or weaknesses of these pieces of art, don’t matter to the people who are truly behind this system. It was their ideas, their associations, the people they hung out with, that was the thing that was going to destroy them.

 

That was the thing that means we can’t talk about these people anymore. And even us, on the Right, who were reading this book, were googling the art, the images, and the people, and what they had achieved, because they’re just lost to history, because of these people who stand in opposition to us.

 

[115:53]

 

Mark Collett: Laura?

 

Laura Towler: Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. And thank you for joining us Greg. It’s always a pleasure to speak with you. I’ve enjoyed what I’ve read of the book so far. But it isn’t much. So I would feel a bit cheeky telling people to go and buy it. But the topic is really great. And I’m looking forward to finishing it. And if this is a topic that you’re interested in, it’s one to check out for sure.

 

But yeah. I’ll be back tomorrow for tea time with Sam and Laura at seven o’clock. And that’s me. Thank you.

 

Mark Collett: Aunt Sally.

 

Aunt Sally: Yeah, I already said I did enjoy the book. It’s not for everyone. Particularly, because it’s about the arts. What it made me realize was how the arts are a form of indoctrination and subversion. And how much they’ve been used against our people for centuries, in the form of art and writing, and everything else. And now it’s media and TV that are doing the damage. But yeah, I did enjoy it. I do recommend it.

 

Mark Collett: Okay I’ll give my thoughts. And then we’ll let Greg have the final word. I like this book. I’m not in agreement with everything that Jonathan says. But I do like the book.

 

And why do I like the book? I like the book, because it preserves something about Jonathan, and that’s so very, very important. I think the issue we have today is that fundamentally so many great orators, so many great writers, have their work lost to time.

 

 

I mean if you look at John Tyndall’s body of work throughout Spearhead over decades, how many people have a complete collection of Spearhead? Is anyone actually archiving all of his wonderful articles and putting them together in a book for people to read? Probably not. And that’s a sad thing. That’s a sad thing. So many things are lost to time.

 

 

But what Greg has done here, is he has captured a little bit of Jonathan, a little bit of what Jonathan was. And he’s put it in a form that you can basically sit on your bedside table and enjoy at your leisure. And you might not agree with everything Jonathan says. But he makes a powerful case for the things that he believes in. And he’s a man that certainly shouldn’t be forgotten.

 

So, I’d like to thank Greg for doing this. And I would suggest you support Greg and Counter-Currents, especially when it comes to projects like this.

 

Greg would you like a final say before we wrap things up?

 

Greg Johnson: Well, thank you very much. Yes, I appreciate that. There’s going to be much more, as I said, of Jonathan. The new archive is up, new books are in the works, new things are coming to light. So we will make sure that he’s not forgotten.

 

And I always enjoy these shows. I want to thank you Mark, and Natty. Nice to meet you Laura and Sally. And I hope that we can do another one of these things in the future. Because, there are always going to be new books coming out from Counter-Currents. So thank you very much.

 

Mark Collett: Well, thank you my friend. Well, that brings it to the end of the stream. Thank you to everyone who watched. Thank you to Natty. Thank you to Laura. Thank you to Greg. Thank you to Aunt Sally. Thank you to everyone. Thank you to those who donated so generously.

 

And we will, of course, be back next week. We will be back for PWR on Wednesday. I will be back for a pre-recorded video come Friday. And I will also be back on Sunday for the Nationalist A-Team. So thank you so much. Would everyone say a quick goodbye. And then we’ll end the stream.

 

Greg Johnson: Good bye everybody.

 

Laura Towler: Bye!

 

Aunt Sally: Bye!

 

Mark Collett: I’m buying you a new mic Aunt Sally! I’m on Amazon buying it now! The echo will be over next week, or next month. And we will be back for book club next month. Thank you to everyone. And we’ll see you next week.

 

Have a great evening. And I’ll see you again soon. Thank you and good night.

 

[120:09]

 

 

END

 

top

 

 

============================================

 

 

ODYSEE COMMENTS

top

 

246 comments

[As of Jun 1, 2022]

 

@MarkCollett
2 days ago
Pinned by @MarkCollett
If you would like to contribute to the show, please use Entropy:
https://entropystream.live/app/markcollett
Reply

@NormalStyleCrew
2 days ago
get vetted in pa, njp or nordic resistance. stop putting it off
Reply
3

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
Good night all
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Thanks folks. Have a great night.
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
thanks all good stream
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
God Bless
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
i’ll be back
Reply

@Mighty_Whitey
2 days ago
\o 1488
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
o7
Reply

@BeauSauvage
2 days ago
buy the book frens
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
Natty is a good lad
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
The official Counter-Currents website:
https://counter-currents.com/
Reply

@dh
2 days ago
14
Reply

@dh
2 days ago
Good talk, cheers
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
14
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
don’t mind Greg
Reply

@Miss_Right
2 days ago
14
Reply

@ArcadeFate65
2 days ago
@NothinginParticular
and pro wrestling (without the ring action)
Reply

@oppoten
2 days ago
(((modern art)))
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
Well said again Natty
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Follow Counter-Currents on Telegram:
https://t.me/countercurrents
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@NothinginParticular
to no small extent
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
One of the first laws the Bolsheviks Introduced was ‘Anti Semiticism”
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
politics is theatre
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
To purchase Jonathan Bowden’s ‘Reactionary Modernism’ at Counter-Currents:
https://counter-currents.com/books/reactionary-modernism/
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
America has direct elections which makes these type of coups possible
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
therefore they want it
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
have they stopped it? No
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Catch Counter-Currents Radio hosted by Greg Johnson every Saturday at noon PST/3pm EST/8pm UK/9pm CET:
https://dlive.tv/Counter-Currents
Reply

@oppoten
2 days ago
a million in a year, wow
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
can the stop it yes
Reply

@ArcadeFate65
2 days ago
@ReedJohnson
Trump was a just a bigger, sexier version of the usual conservative party trick of opposing things out of power then doing nothing or worse after being elected.
Reply

@mikeenochcat
2 days ago
6 milliob
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
The Trump election was a coup against the system which is why they reacted so aggressively
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
record numbers
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@Mighty_Whitey
Trump is a fake populist who liked to flirt with racial nationalists
Reply

@ArcadeFate65
2 days ago
Yes they’re crypto-leftists or work directly for the system (intel/networks). Maybe a few are careerists who don’t really believe in p.c. but want to grift a lifestyle.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Trump brought media hegemony into question
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
‘Conserving” What exactly ?
Reply

@Mighty_Whitey
2 days ago
don’t @ me lol
Reply

@Mighty_Whitey
2 days ago
Trumpism was the worst thing to happen to racial nationalsts in decades
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
demoralising
Reply

@ThisIsNotAnArgument
2 days ago
right
Reply

@ThisIsNotAnArgument
2 days ago
Conservatism at this point is just ‘rigth wing’ virtue signalling. Achieves nothing.
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Mouse Utopia the” Beautiful Ones”
Reply

@wiseUp
2 days ago
quilt alert
Reply

@Miss_Right
2 days ago
They hate to turn off the lobbyists money spigot.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Sam Francis called conservatives “beautiful losers”
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
the left doesn’t exist
Reply

@wiseUp
2 days ago
cant even sort childcare out you grifters
Reply

@Miss_Right
2 days ago
“Turn it back to the States” also.
Reply

@ThisIsNotAnArgument
2 days ago
Many are conservative because they are cowards
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
@Mighty_Whitey
yes they are
Reply

@Miss_Right
2 days ago
Points based but no kill switch, if you have the “points” you’re in. Not thought through? Or purposefully aiding and abetting the invasion?
Reply

@Mighty_Whitey
2 days ago
they’re all neoliberal technocrats
Reply

@ThisIsNotAnArgument
2 days ago
These fake conservatives who claim that because they “believe in small government” they can’t undo the leftist institutions
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
I liked this one by Roger Scruton: “Fools, Frauds and Firebrands: Thinkers of the New Left” on Amazon UK:
https://tinyurl.com/5ncjy967
Reply

@ArcadeFate65
2 days ago
Treason May was a fellow traveller, flashing her Frida Kahlo bracelet was a signal imo
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
“I couldn’t live without my twitter and Onlyphans”
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
Well said Natty
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
Laura Sam gang
Reply

@Miss_Right
2 days ago
We Were Never Asked(TM)
Reply

@ArcadeFate65
2 days ago
Con Inc. are double agent leftists felloe travellers, careerists or just loyal to the system as a whole if not personally marxists.
Reply

@Miss_Right
2 days ago
“Immigrants” not “refugees” actually
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Disengage from Twitter. Let people stay there or find a better platform.
Reply

@ArcadeFate65
2 days ago
Twitter is full of those obnoxious leftists frothing about Tories and putting I Hate Tories in their bios. How many are real or fake I don’t know.
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
it’s in the Overton window now.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Greg Johnson’s “The White Nationalist Manifesto,” now in 2nd edition:
https://counter-currents.com/the-white-nationalist-manifesto-order/
Reply

@Carlota
2 days ago
Jesse Lee Peterson started this week speaking about the Great Replacement. He’s condemning it harshly
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
^ one way or another
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
PA has to become a political party
Reply

@Mighty_Whitey
2 days ago
\o
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Jonathan Bowden was a true “man of the Right”
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
if you have a child who is lgbtq whatever, you have failed your ancestors
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
we carry stones
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
Don’t see gays as evil but a product of evil and victims. However, they should not be in positions of power and influence
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
my white back is strong and my pockets deep.
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
brow beaten
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
“Western Civilization Bites Back” at Counter-Currents:
https://counter-currents.com/books/western-civilization-bites-back/
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
To purchase Jonathan Bowden’s ‘Reactionary Modernism’ at Counter-Currents:
https://counter-currents.com/books/reactionary-modernism/
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
bankers greed
Reply

@lux333
2 days ago
yes it was
Reply

@Online_Storage
2 days ago
much better
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
watched on youtube a while back
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
Liberalism is moral syfilis
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
all children are born impressionable
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
@ReedJohnson
Hello Brother
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
The fact that this type of topic is in the Public discourse and entertained demonstrates how far Society has fallen.
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
abortionivexia
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
the trans sexuals in women sports will become a problem for them
Reply

@Online_Storage
2 days ago
Dick Levine
Reply

@Oldmotherearth
2 days ago
anyone walking down the street like that needs putting away
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@TheThinRedLine
Good evening \o
Reply

@Miss_Right
2 days ago
Abortionophobia
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@Miss_Right
they try to marginalise the normal white majority
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
I agree with Greg
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Yes normalisation. Cowards repent and speak up.
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
lol
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
normalisation
Reply

@Miss_Right
2 days ago
Their “feelings” are validated but traditional “feelings” bad
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Greg Johnson’s book, “White Identity Politics” is available on Amazon UK, get it while you can:
https://tinyurl.com/57twb2mj
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
subversion of natural biological sexual desire
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Mothers who take their children to ‘Drag Queen Story Hour” need some reality checks, short sharp shock type
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
blacks really do not like gays and trans. They tolerate far less than whites (unless they’re on the down low themselves)
Reply

@Arrow
2 days ago
The same people who hide behind children to take your rights are the same who say adolescent hormone therapy is ok
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
much more effective than genocides or famines
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
(((they))) use words like it’s some hypnotic incantation
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
yes Mark
Reply

@SamMYorks
2 days ago
If you would like to contribute to the show, please use Entropy:
https://entropystream.live/app/markcollett
Reply

@Miss_Right
2 days ago
Illegal aliens.
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
institutional white abuse readying up for sharia and child marraige
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@dinolegovich1964
yeah, “consensual” and “legal” is not the same as making it openly public and polluting the public space
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
sounds like institutional child abuse
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
ffs bet its poor areas
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Bondage is consensual too but I do not want to see it publicly especially in front of kids
Reply

@BritishGammon
2 days ago
I feel paedos should be hanged. I can’t help how I feel!
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
Their bedroom doesn’t belong in the classroom.
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
much easier to train kids to not want to reproduce at a young age. They will defend it
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
“chicken chasers” is slang for gay men who go after under age children & teens.
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
14
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
our working class kids
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
^ “rough trade”
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
you mean rich people/posh use workin class kids for sport
Reply

@countercurrents
2 days ago
Folks, do you have any questions for the panel?
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
^^ that too
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
population control
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Join the Counter-Currents mailing list:
https://counter-currents.com/mailing-list/
Reply

@Arrow
2 days ago
based natty
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
profane indeed
Reply

@ThisIsNotAnArgument
2 days ago
In South Africa when there is rain and sunshine (therefore likely a rainbow) they call it a “monkey’s wedding”. you can draw your own conclusions.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
oy vey!
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
They are not “rapists” or at least they are not admitting to it.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
all this word salad to justify the profane is totally unacceptable
Reply

@BritishGammon
2 days ago
Today: can’t refine “woman”, tomorrow: can’t define “child”. We all know where this is going.
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Critical Retarded Thinking
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
the world is symbols, never forget how they pervert it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Saint_Peter
Reply

@oppoten
2 days ago
don’t say CRT, say the words
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
their means to indoctrinate children. Adopting the rainbow. Insidious
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
they’re already trying to normalise child sexual abuse
Reply

@oppoten
2 days ago
but the mainstream is trying to take control of these narratives
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
It is obvious.
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago

Bifrost

Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
Rainbow= the shimmering bridge
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
let them have it and fly it then we know who they are unlike jihadis
Reply

@TheThinRedLine
2 days ago
Bifrost
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
I like Rainbows that’s why I do not want homosexuals to claim them as their own. They belong to little kids not sickos
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
:rainbow_puke_2:
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@dinolegovich1964
Perhaps at least until the nonsense dies down.
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Rainbows are not rectangles
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
rainbows are fantastc
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
“Extremists: Studies in Metapolitics” at Counter-Currents:
https://counter-currents.com/books/extremists-studies-in-metapolitics/
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
undo what the rainbow means, not ban it
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Banning Rainbow Flags would be a good start
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
“Western Civilization Bites Back” at Counter-Currents:
https://counter-currents.com/books/western-civilization-bites-back/
Reply

@SamMYorks
2 days ago
If you would like to contribute to the show, please use Entropy:
https://entropystream.live/app/markcollett
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
CT did a respectable study on Yukio
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Rainbows can be like Swastikas. I get triggered, offended and disgusted by homosexuals parading with rainbow flags.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
“Pulp Fascism” at Counter-Currents:
https://counter-currents.com/books/pulp-fascism/
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
savitri devi was a saint
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
These sickos need something like 4 Chan to locate and take back the Rainbow
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
Bifröst
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Let’s take the Rainbow back. For the children.
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
the rainbow was Bifrost
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
A burka on a building site would be a death sentence.
Reply

@oppoten
2 days ago
this is a great idea, do parodies
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@dinolegovich1964
Good observation. Perhaps that’s part of why they chose the rainbow, or at least why they stick with it.
Reply

@mikeenochcat
2 days ago
lol
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
Mark swift with the wood-chipper
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Rainbows have become an evil subversive attractor for little children. Colour visuals are what kids notice and pay attention to. Rainbows belong to little kids not sick degenerate adults.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Catch Counter-Currents Radio hosted by Greg Johnson every Saturday at noon PST/3pm EST/8pm UK/9pm CET:
https://dlive.tv/Counter-Currents
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
‘certain ethnic group’
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
mythology
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
the cultural myth
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
At least it had cross dressing I heard
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
StoneToss is masterful:
https://stonetoss.com/
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
in group preference is natural
Reply

@NothinginParticular
2 days ago
racism doesn’t exist
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
The Unifier
http://murdoch-murdoch.net/html/mm/Coniugator.html
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
To purchase ‘Reactionary Modernism’ at Counter-Currents:
https://counter-currents.com/books/reactionary-modernism/
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
nitwits and midwits. And conning midwits currently rule the post-modern art world
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
posted that ADL article on Locals and outside of HASBARA, all the normies went WTF???
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
a great movie poster is artful. And it’s commercial and promotional power is undeniable
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
beggar belief with those scum-bags
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
“The Nazis on the left are much better than the Nazis on the Right”
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Are some Nazis more Racist than others ?
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
you can’t beat the power and value of a great meme
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
“Ukraine Nazis are ‘good’ Nazis” ~ ADL
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@PopcornPower
and their attention span goes away just that quickly
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
Wolfenstein New Order would have been great if we could play for the right side…
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
Not everyone loves every form of music. That is part of where the disconnect comes from. People tune in. Hear a genre of music they don’t enjoy so they tune out.
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Nursery Rhymes are catchy and easy to transmit
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
a strength of PA is it’s persistent support of culture
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
People will consume music.
Reply

@gaddiusmaximus
2 days ago
Patriotic Arts Community:
https://t.me/PatrioticArtsCommunity
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
“More Artists of the Right” at C-C:
https://counter-currents.com/books/more-artists-of-the-right/
Reply

@BillAtheling
2 days ago
I wrote an article for the PA website on German nationalist photographers as modernists
https://www.patrioticalternative.org.uk/a_view_from_the_right
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
9/11 prediction ? Blue Poles and Modern ‘Art”.
https://theconversation.com/heres-looking-at-blue-poles-by-jackson-pollock-51655
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
“Artists of the Right: Resisting Decadence” at C-C:
https://counter-currents.com/books/artists-of-the-right-resisting-decadence/
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
yes this pretty good
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
Millions of people dead, just like Covid, will have an effect on Societies
Reply

@dinolegovich1964
2 days ago
4.42am Sydney Australia. Good Morning and “Clear them all Out”.
Reply

@BillAtheling
2 days ago
@countercurrents
can’t wait to read this…
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
“The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters” on Amazon UK:
https://tinyurl.com/5e6wzdp2
Reply

@RoryHerbert
2 days ago
@LauraTowler
A portrait of Benito Melia then
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Gordon Gekko in the movie “Wall Street” (1987) had the best take on modern art: the illusion of value based on what people pay for it.
Reply

@gaddiusmaximus
2 days ago
Bowden painting trolling Jackson Pollock:
https://t.me/jonathanbowdenarchive/1267
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
Machines can now create “abstract art.” Now what artists?
Reply

@BillAtheling
2 days ago
go on
@LauraTowler
I’m hoping to help arrange a Bowden retrospective….
Reply

@TytoAlba
2 days ago
it’s fauvist, which was an offshoot of impressionism
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Catch The Writers’ Bloc hosted by Nix Jeelvy every Sunday at 1pm PST/4pm EST/9pm UK/10pm CET:
https://dlive.tv/Counter-Currents
Reply

@TytoAlba
2 days ago
horrible
Reply

@BillAtheling
2 days ago
@MarkCollett
the key thing to any graphic art, whether you are a cartoonist or portrait painter is drawing, if you can’t draw you will never cut it.
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
splish slposh £30,000 please is not art …
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
if it looks like a child did it, it’s probably not art
Reply

@RoryHerbert
2 days ago
@gaddiusmaximus
I have two rotary phones. No one’s ever complained about the microphone quality lol.
Reply

@gaddiusmaximus
2 days ago
sounds like she’s on a rotary phone. Sorry Zoomers, gotta look that one up.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
^ her audio is coming in and out
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
Aunt Sally is extremely quiet.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Follow Counter-Currents on Telegram:
https://t.me/countercurrents
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@BillAtheling
We’ve just gotten started. You’re good.
Reply

@BillAtheling
2 days ago
evening folks,damn,I’m late!
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
$10.00
When you’re so buzzed on a streaming day, it’s exercise, live stream, then continue exercising. PA and Counter-Currents together again. The pride of the Right. As it should be.
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
The official Counter-Currents website:
https://counter-currents.com/
Reply

@gaddiusmaximus
2 days ago
Jonathan Bowden Archive:
https://jonathanbowden.org
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Greg Johnson’s latest article at C-C:
https://counter-currents.com/2022/05/neema-parvinis-the-populist-delusion/
Reply

@RoryHerbert
2 days ago
Good evening folks.
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
fight fight fight fight
Reply

@JohanFredrickson1290
2 days ago
Hello all
Reply

@gaddiusmaximus
2 days ago
Congrats
Reply

@TytoAlba
2 days ago
ah congratulations
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
that Laura and Sam avatar is glorious, warms the old heart
Reply

@mikeenochcat
2 days ago
hello
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
To purchase ‘Reactionary Modernism’ on Counter-Currents:
https://counter-currents.com/books/reactionary-modernism/
Reply

@Homa_Tawk
2 days ago
Hey to all the fine people
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
yes, LIKE and BOOST this stream via support
Reply

@perpetuallypunk
2 days ago
suggested read: the war on the west: how to prevail in the age of non-reason by Douglas Murray.
Reply

@gaddiusmaximus
2 days ago
Fire Energy!
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
stream really needs a few minute countdown for stream to straighten out
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@SamMYorks
Cheers. Thanks.
Reply

@SamMYorks
2 days ago
@ReedJohnson
That’s fine. This is Laura. Logged in on Sam’s comp.
Reply

@PopcornPower
2 days ago
Loud & Clear
Reply

@NRxDraconarius
2 days ago
Greetings \o
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
some lovely music for the meantime
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No 2, arr. Franz Bendel. www.xuanna.nl
lbry://@XuannaOfficial#f/trim.1D80B52E-0232-44F3-9CC8-42AC154030BA#f
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
@MarkCollett
I’m a mod at Counter-Currents, and with your permission, I’d like to drop our links in the chat during the show. Is that ok?
Reply

@ChainReaction
2 days ago
Let’s gooooo
Reply

@ReedJohnson
2 days ago
Good evening patriots
Reply
0
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xx UNFINISHED TRANSCRIPTS — Volunteers Needed

 

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See Also

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Mark Collett – Book Review – The Host and the Parasite by Greg Felton – Jul 6, 2021 — Transcript

 

 

 

 

Mark Collett — It’s Okay To Be White — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Christmas Adverts – Multicultural Propaganda — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — What We Must Do To Win — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Assad Didn’t Do It – Faked Syrian Gas Attack — TRANSCRIPT

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Version 5:

 

Version 4: Jun 7, 2022 — Transcript now complete.

 

Version 3: Jun 6, 2022 — Added more transcript. 87/120 mins now complete.

 

Version 2: Jun 2, 2022 — Added more transcript. 60/120 mins now complete.

 

Version 1: Jun 1, 2022 — Published post. Includes Odysee comments (246).

Ayatollah: Good evening. Welcome to Friday Night Dinner Number 53. More, or less, on time tonight not quite. But better than I usually am. So we’ll get stuck in. You probably all know how it works by now. Please hit “Like”, if you haven’t already. If you aren’t already subscribed, again I really don’t know what to tell you. But I’d appreciate it if you did. And if you want to get notifications, which usually come at around about the same time every Friday. But there is the odd stream of midweek, as a lot of you will know, then please hit the bell icon.

 

Other than that if you’ve got questions you probably remember how that works. But I’ll just go over it again. The link for Entropy is in the chat. That’s generally the best way to get them in. It keeps them a bit more organized. The chat on YouTube can be quite hard to follow at times. But if you can’t get on Entropy just stick them on YouTube. But do make sure you tag me.

 

I’ve got a feeling tonight is going to be a difficult one to keep track of, because we’ve got a lot of subjects to talk about. So it might be difficult to get through everything. But yeah, do make sure. I can’t guarantee we’ll get through everything.

 

Do make sure you tag me. And to do that you just gotta type at symbol toller space hyphen space the space ayatollah, … Hang on! No. That’s wrong, isn’t it? For god’s sake! My own notes are wrong. Let’s do that again. See, I probably wouldn’t got that wrong if I wasn’t reading the notes, which I haven’t read for a while, which is a good thing, because they’re bloody wrong! But yeah. So you just type at symbol Tollahvision space hyphen space the space Ayatollah. And that’s it.

 

As I say, as ever, can’t promise we’ll get around to everything I’m tagged in. Get around to everything I’m tagged in. Did I say that right? Well you get the idea., you know what I mean, particularly I think tonight might be quite difficult, because we’ve got a lot to talk about. But I’ll do my best.

 

We’ve got a lot to talk about, because we’re joined tonight by a man whom I met for the first time at the third Patriotic Alternative conference, just under a fortnight ago. I was already well aware of him by name, not least, because my good mate and our stalwart moderator and discussion prompter, Beer Hall Pooch, was especially excited that he was going to be there.

 

And given that his nom de guerre is Pretty Ron Seal. Good little reference for our non-domestic listeners there. But it does exactly what it says on the tin. Just Google Ronseal YouTube. Put in Ronseal live on YouTube. If you want to know what I’m talking about. But you probably don’t. So I’ll move on.

 

His nom de guerre is pretty Ronseal. Anglos you’ll know what I mean by that. And if you don’t, where the fuck have you been the past 30 years? But I had a good idea based on that username of what his views would be, and I was looking forward to meeting myself.

 

But I only heard him speak for the first time on my way to the conference when I started listening to the episode of my alma mater podcast, The Absolute State of Britain, on which he recently appeared. Which only went live when I was about two thirds of the way through my drive up to the conference.

 

But based on that episode, and especially based on the conversations we had throughout the day, and until we all went our separate ways at a quarter two in the morning, I can say with utmost confidence that this is going to be one of the most enlightening streams I’ve ever hosted.

 

Now if you’re listening to this and you’re one of the majority who aren’t doing so on behalf of the state, or some other curtin-switching nonce operation, you probably identify yourself as a White nationalist of one sort, or another. So common sense would suggest that you’d find nothing more irritating, and nothing more enraging, than listening to swarthy foreigners using a platform they don’t deserve to pontificate on how your country should be run, who should run it, and who should live in it!

 

Then again most you turn up and listen to me every week. So you can’t mind it too much. But if you do like that you’ll love tonight’s stream. Because there are two of us! With a caveat that I guess tonight definitely does deserve the platform, because as you’re about to find out he’s a bloody interesting bloke!

 

Please welcome Arab Social Nationalist [Applause]!

 

I had to go full Orientalist with your intro music mate!

 

Arab SN: Look, I enjoyed it. Thank you.

 

 

 

Ayatollah: Well the thing is you see I couldn’t miss the opportunity. I thought right I’ve got a fella coming on. He’s partially Arab, you know, look I’ve got an old school racist in the intro, pretty racist myself, as we all should be. What I’ve got to do? You know, I’ve got to go for something that’s sufficiently other in and cliched in the context, you know, Casper, and all of that. Sharif don’t like it. Something that to normally sensibilities would seem so archaically off colour, and racist, and inappropriate, it’s almost quaint.

 

Because that’s the sort of Hackneyed rubbish I do best. But it was actually only just before I came to rip it off YouTube and edit it that I remembered that:

 

“This is not kosher!”

 

Exclamation toward the end. And I thought, yes! Yes! Gotta use that! Because honest to god, what could be less kosher than an Englishman and an Anglo-Arab Muslim talking about a certain oppressor they have in common, and the ideological and political antidotes to their regime? I can’t think of anything! So perfect!

 

Arab SN: But thank you for the intro. It was very, very generous intro. So thank you very much.

 

Ayatollah: I enjoyed putting that one together, because I’ve got to make a joke at my own expense, which is generally my stock in trade, because if I weren’t laughing at myself, I’d be crying.

 

But no, I’ve been looking forward to this one that the first formality we go through on these streams is to ask what you had for dinner?

 

Arab SN: I haven’t actually eaten yet.

 

Ayatollah: All right, okay.

 

Arab SN: I had a nap after work. And then did a bit of reading ahead of this.

 

Ayatollah: I’ve been doing that. I’ve been sleeping after work at times. My sleep patterns not being the best football managers out. So, you know. But I had some hot dogs for dinner. My meals are always bad ones on a Friday night. They’re always very carb heavy. Think of all the bread and that.

 

But anyway never mind! Never mind. But yeah, …. I mean, as I said, it the username pretty much does what it says on the tin. Although people might be surprised if they’ve not heard you on TASOB, or elsewhere, to hear that you’ve basically got, they’ve got me every week. It was like Chas and Dave, or one half of Chas and Dave. The one that’s not dead yet. Because I think one of them passed away a few years ago. But you’re very much more sort of BBC English really, received pronunciation.

 

Arab SN: I do my best.

 

Ayatollah: Well, so people might be surprised by that. But obviously what they’re going to be curious about, if they’re not already familiar with you, is how you arrived at your current world view. Now there are obviously certain things about your background you might not want to divulge. But to a great extent as you’re prepared to, introduce yourself, and how you got here.

 

Arab SN: Well. So I was born and raised in the UK. My dad’s from an Arab country, that I won’t name, obviously. And my mother is northern English. I’m in my 30s. I haven’t been in the orbit of this sort of political thinking formally, or actively, for very long. I wouldn’t even say that it’s two years. I would say how I arrived at my world view, which you can guess is social nationalist.

 

Ayatollah: Obviously.

 

Arab SN: Which Mark Collett always fumbles when he says it. But I think that my arrival here was quite long. And went from me simply not being psychologically on board with multiculturalism, and diversity. And as well, me not really being on board with anti-racist movements, etc., which I was expected to be at university.

 

Ayatollah: It’s interesting that I mean, was there ever a sort of a period, … Sorry to interrupt, … Was there ever a period in your life where you had that sort of, … It’s the sort of common cliche isn’t it, with people of mixed ancestry. That there’s a certain tension there. And it can make them sort of, … Particularly when they’re sort of an anti-White, anti-native, zeitgeist. Did you ever sort of have a certain resentment to the sort of the normative, you know, sort of normative Britishness, so to speak?

 

Arab SN: Yes I did. And I found it patronizing. But when I was younger I didn’t always have the language, or the intellectual framework, or even just the knowledge to articulate, or explain my discomfort with all of this.

 

And so in the beginning I was just keeping my distance from it. So at university, for example, people say:

 

“Oh, you know, come on this all that anti-racist march.”

 

And I’d be like:

 

“No! Thank you.”

 

Ayatollah: So you were always like that basically then? Because I think my question was sort of like the opposite. Did you have any degree of, ill will might be a strong way to put it, but towards the whole sort of White British culture and whatever? I don’t know. Yeah.

 

Arab SN: It would have been it would have been difficult to form an outlook like that, because I was born and raised in White culture, among Whites. My dad is the only member of his family that’s in this country.

 

And we didn’t really mix very much with other Muslims of whatever ethnic background. Beyond formal occasions at the mosque. So anti-Whitism, and how I came to realize what’s going on with Anti-Whitism, and what it means, I think it was in two stages.

 

In the first place, I suppose I didn’t think it was as serious as it is. And I would hear people talk about anti-Whitism. And I would just think:

 

“Oh really! You’re okay! You’re okay. Don’t worry.”

 

But in recent years it’s become so brazen. And so crass. And I do think it’s crass. And we’re in such trouble in terms of free speech, that we have to bear mute witness to this. We have to bear mute witness to anti-Whitism, where it comes from, who’s spreading it, what political agenda it’s serving at home and abroad. We have to see all this be really extravagantly and brazenly thrown around in front of us.

 

And yet we’re forbidden to discuss it! Or at least to discuss it as frankly as in as it needs to be discussed. I think that realization came to me later. I think that, yeah, you might have asked that question, because you supposed that I might have been like a super woke Lefty at some time in my life. But I haven’t been. I have always been, you know, economically on the Left. But the, ….

 

[12:00]

 

Ayatollah: Bill preaches shadow boxing, at this point, honest to god! He’s so excited, but sorry anyway yeah, …

 

Arab SN: The social justice stuff never sat with me. And yeah. So in terms of my sort of political leanings I’ve always been a traditional Leftist economically. But my social values, … I wouldn’t, you know, I don’t even like the word “conservative”. Traditional, I prefer.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Normal is a good one.

 

Arab SN: Normal, you know, I like authenticity. And I dislike enormously inauthentic things! Which I see so much all over the politics and the culture.

 

And I suppose my sympathy for White people, my White family, has become more pronounced, I suppose, as I’ve as I’ve come to realize what’s going on. And the extent of it.

 

Ayatollah: Right. Yeah. So I mean, it’s funny we’ve talked about this show and I forget who with exactly, but I’m trying to think which guest it would have been?

 

Not too long ago on here we discussed some of Jonathan Bowden’s stuff about, … Jonathan Bowden sort of said, we need to sort of issue a sort of a sense of victimhood. And I think, whoever it was I was talking to, might have been Tony Hovater from the National Justice Party actually, said:

 

“Well. Yeah, but you sort of can’t. We are being victimized.”

 

And the point I raised was:

 

“What might Bowden have thought?”

 

And maybe you wouldn’t thought much different. But Bowden probably said that anywhere between eight, well more than eight years ago. He’s been dead more than eight years ago. Anywhere between nine and fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, years ago. That victimhood was something to avoid. I’d be curious to know what you would say if he were around now.

 

And again knowing Bowden, it might not be that much different. But it might be different just because of how much is changing. And basically how much more brazen and aggressive the agenda has become against native people in the West. It’s become so aggressive! And particularly last year and a half especially!

 

The George Floyd thing was a real catalyst. I’m sure but by some degree of design it was like. Okay. This is the black getting killed by police, because of his own sort of belligerence and low time horizons. It’s low time horizons, and whatever. And poor flight, or fight, instincts that we’re going to use to just browbeat White people to fully sanctify blacks!

 

As if that wasn’t happening enough already! And really turn it up to 11! But the other element of it, I mean, being of partial Arab background was there always a certain degree of, how would I phrase this? “Opposition” I suppose, is one way to put it. But like negative negative attitude toward the zionist agenda? That’s probably a bit to gimme, that question.

 

[15:06]

 

Arab SN: Yes. I’ve always been awake in that respect. Always. I don’t, yeah. I mean, especially because my dad is older, the age that he was born into and reached adolescence, in the golden age of Arab nationalism.

 

Ayatollah: Nasser, …

 

Arab SN: Yeah. He used to crowd around the radio with his friends and listen to speeches by Nasser. And so his outlook was all, … He was never remembered the Bath Party. And he was never involved in politics. But that was always what his political views were.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And I’d say as well, being of immigrant, you know, stock, or background, isn’t the same experience for everyone. And I think my experience of being a partially Arab person in this country is informed by the circumstances of my dad’s immigration. Which was not it, wasn’t as part of the these synthetic waves of migration that are being driven.

 

It was rather a more normal route. And I think that because of that, he has never he’s never hated White people, or British people. Not least, because he’s always been very proud of his own ethnic background.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: He wasn’t de-racinated when he came to this country. He loves this country, and has enormous respect for it. But if you were to ask him if he were English he would say:

 

“No.”

 

I think. Because the question is silly and patronizing to him. He’s not English!

 

Ayatollah: To all parties.

 

Arab SN: He came from somewhere else!

 

Ayatollah: Well, if I say, it’s also predicated on this stupid assumption that there’s going to be some sort of animosity towards you if people don’t condescend to you and say:

 

“Oh yeah, you’re English!”

 

Now actually, I will say this. You said something very interesting about not being part of a synthetic wave of immigration. Where, as you say, it’s like a whole village of a hundred villages from [word unclear] relocating into West Yorkshire, or whatever.

 

Arab SN: Yeah.

 

Ayatollah: So there isn’t the thing of just literally colonizing, because you are an entity. I would guess probably more analogous to actually a lot of the Muslim immigration that there was into the US. And a lot of the time it was from Arab countries.

 

Arab SN: Yeah, yeah. And it was more successful, was it not, then Pakistani immigration to the Yorkshire heartland?

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Another thing another thing I’d add to that as well. As I mean, you said the thing about synthetic waves of immigration. Now Gary Murphy talked about this thing. It might have been when he was on Millennial once. Gary Murphy talked about this. And he talked about the whole thing of like people advocating for the wholesale neo-liberal erasure of Ireland as we know it, will cite some, …

 

There’s some half Fijian fella who plays, I think, plays Gaelic football, or rugby. I think he plays Gaelic football, or something.

 

Arab SN: Ireland?

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Talking about Ireland, because this is an example. But basically people who sort of advocate for the wholesale neoliberal erasure of Ireland, you know, which has obviously been going on a pace for a good few years now, but an alarming pace. Would cite the example of this fella and I can’t remember the specifics of him. But I think he was something like half Irish, half Fijian, or maybe even fully Fijian, I don’t know. I’ve don’t think he spent a lot of time there. Maybe born there if he was half Irish. I can’t remember.

 

But anyway, I think he plays like Gaelic football, or whatever and he speaks Irish, you know what I mean? And this is the thing. In small numbers. Like I said there’s a real awkwardness and condescension about the idea that you’ve got to say somebody’s English. No! They can be what they are. And you can accept them for what they are, on an isolated basis!

 

But then also what you will get if in a world where mass immigration was not wielded as well a tool of the neoliberal economic agenda. But then also as a sort of a weapon of demographic sabotage, which is interwoven with the economic agenda. But there’s also an ethno-religious agenda in terms of the people who pull the strings in the Western world. And a lot of the rest of the world as well. But by one means, or other.

 

However, without that if you had sort of isolated rounding error levels of immigration. Well, what would happen is, yeah people would become like you just become an honorary., you know what I mean? You become an honorary whatever where you are.

 

Because you probably wouldn’t have the choice to just stick with your own people. You just become adopted. You’re an adopted Englishman, an adopted Irishman, an adopted Swede, or whatever. That’s never been part of the agenda though, because it’s always been something else.

 

It’s funny, you made a point, … We talked about Yeminis in, was it Sunderland, or somewhere like that? I forget where it was.

 

Arab SN: Sunderland and in Cardiff.

 

[20:03]

 

Ayatollah: I forget. It was one, or the other, where you’d mentioned that they’re basically they’ve been there a long time. I know Sunderland they’ve been there a very long time. I think Cardiff as well, with the two port cities. But basically I don’t know if it was something that you’ve looked at. But you’d said that they’re basically just absorbed in.

 

Arab SN: Yeah. Those people you wouldn’t be able to identify. But that kind of migration is more natural, in the kind of migration that has always gone on. I’m wary of people on the Right who try to sell a vision of absolute ethnic integrity. It’s not something that’s ever happened historically. Like on the margins they’ll always be the odd foreigner that moves here, or there.

 

Ayatollah: And that’s just it, the “odd foreigner”, yeah.

 

Arab SN: Yes, the odd foreigner. You know, under normal circumstances in a normal, untroubled, uninterfered with, country you would not meet an immigrant! They may be there. You won’t meet one!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Because mass migration, by itself, as an idea, it is unnatural!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah and it’s malevolent as well!

 

Arab SN: Yes, it’s deliberate! It’s synthetic! It’s an agenda! And it has a reason. And it has, well it has two reasons. The first, to destroy the homeland for whatever reason, usually economic, or geopolitical, or both. And to dilute and ultimately erase indigenous, European, populations.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Or at least to turn Western Europe into a into a flabby, ineffective, racial soup, that has no underlying unity of tradition, world view, outlook, morals! Just this endless tolerant soup! Which does not bring out the best in anyone! It doesn’t bring out the best in the immigrants, that are subsumed into this inauthentic, nasty, situation! It definitely does not bring out, or contribute to the best expressions of Western culture, either.

 

Because the best expressions and the most authentic expressions of a culture are done in a context of homogeneity, and high trust societies, with a unity of tradition.

 

Part of the agenda of mass migration, I think, is to make the entire world incapable of that kind of potent creativity ever again! Except one ethnic group! One particular ethnostate! So there will be one ethnostate, and then around it, this mass of ineffective nonsense incapable of unifying behind a particular idea, because they share nothing! They share no history! No values! No blood!

 

What is a person? And you’ll find this in London. We’re told these fabulous stories about schools in London where 40, 50, or 60 languages are spoken in these primary schools. What happens to the product of these schools?

 

You know, they reach marriage age, they get married. Perhaps they don’t. And they just have children anyway. You’re going to end up with a generation of people who are one-quarter Eritrean, one quarter Somali, one quarter, I don’t know, Polish, and one quarter Congolese!

 

You were talking about the example of this Irish chap. I saw a clip of a supposedly black Irishman. You talk, …

 

Ayatollah: Sure in the chat clarified, by the way, that his name is Shauna Calpin. And I’ve since looked at him. But yeah, I think it was Hurling that he played. But anyways, sorry. Go ahead you.

 

Arab SN: So he was talking about how oh, you know, I met this woman and she was half African, half Chinese. And I thought:

 

“Wow! Ireland is unique now!”

 

I’m sorry this is garbage on its face! If you’re a quarter of this, a quarter that, a quarter of the other thing, it doesn’t make you some kind of super person! It all negates each other! If you’re a quarter Eritrean time unfortunately I don’t think you’re Eritrean.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: You’re a quarter Somali, unfortunately I don’t think you’re called Somalia.

 

Ayatollah: No.

 

Arab SN: And if you’re made up of this ethnic soup you have nothing to fall back on! You have no direct transmission really of anything. And how are you going to get in touch with all of this? Are you going to learn four languages? I don’t think you are.

 

Ayatollah: Well you won’t. What you’ll probably do, … Yeah, what you what you’ll do is you’ll have a sort of, … What you identify yourself as will be infinitely malleable. It’ll be this sort of urbanite, consumer-based, yeah.

 

[25:03]

 

Arab SN: You’ll be an administrative British person. Which is to say you have British papers.

 

Ayatollah: Which is a really good way to put it actually, yeah.

 

Arab SN: And you’re raised in London, where you, … What can you say about this youth that is developed in London? What are they? How would they even describe themselves? And ultimately it’s cruel, you know!

 

Multiculturalism, and waves of migration, they are built on war, and economic exploitation, or a mixture of the two. So that’s the first cruelty that these people are subjected to. And then, once you arrive at the so-called “melting pot”, this vaunted idea of melting away into nothing, as if it’s good! I find that word very sinister.

 

Ayatollah: Well, we know the origin of that. Melting pot was a term called by a Russian jew, Israel Zangwill. A man who’d never been to America, I don’t believe.

 

Arab SN: Yeah, you get to the melting pot. And then what happens to you? You’re deracinated! You have nothing! A Congolese person has a right to be Congolese. And he has a right as well to have Congolese children. Which isn’t going to happen in London, or Manchester, or anywhere else.

 

Ayatollah: Tolerant Fellow, ever the man of the very sort of pithy take has come up with a cracker there.:

 

“Four by two’s making the whole planet so mad, civilizations with thousands of animosity towards each other, being like, ‘We’re more similar than we thought!’.”

 

Arab SN: Well, you know, that’s really one of the more fascinating things for me, when I sought this political community out on Twitter, in the first place, was how pragmatic people on the so-called far-Right can be. And how sober in their thinking they can be. As opposed to other lesser Right-wing movements. There’s a certain, there’s an intellectual rigour to the sort of people that frequent this area of politics, than others, I’d say.

 

Ayatollah: That’s an interesting thing that I want to come back to as well later on, just with regard to my reaction to your perceptions of what you found when you turned up in real life for the first time. Something else I was going to say, … This is an important point actually what I was talking to JR Hartley about this week in the chat.

 

Because the point is often raised. And I think this is particularly true, probably the last 25, 30 years, but particularly the past 10, 15. The dual purpose of basically Western intervention, let’s call it. Sort of military aggression, usually in Muslim countries on behalf of the zionist agenda. And then having the secondary benefit of:

 

“Well there’s our pretext to just flood a load of people in.”

 

A lot of them aren’t even Syrian anyway. I mean, I’ll tell you a story about that in a minute. But flood a load of people sort of Syrian refugees into Europe. And so on and so forth. By the way, as I say on that subject, a couple of years ago I saw a country farm, I think, on the BBC. And they were somewhere, they were a working farm in the Ribel [sp] Valley.:

 

“And today a group of Syrian refugees have arrived to visit the farm.”

 

And there was a mini bus full of them. Every one of them who got off that bus was as black as a ghost [?] birthday party. And they’re taking the piss out, at this point, because it’s like:

 

“These people are Syrian! And you will believe that. And question or challenge that in any way, do so publicly, we might send the police round.”

 

And they’ll check your thinking.

 

Arab SN: Or perhaps Syria was more diverse and multicultural than you ever thought?

 

Ayatollah: It’s always being diverse! You know, Saint George was an Englishman. Usually the other way around they do that, isn’t it:

 

“Oh he was a Syrian! He was a Syrian! He was a Turkey, he was a Muslim, he was just, …”

 

The thing, is none of those things existed in the form that we know now. Then he was a Greek. He’s a Greek under the Roman Empire, he converts Christianity, he was killed for not recanting it basically, that’s it. [chuckling] So yeah, the midwits are fun on St George’s day. I wish I’d been on Twitter for that. It probably wasn’t on Twitter for that this year. Probably just didn’t bother with him.

 

But JR Hartley made a good point on that subject. He made the point about:

 

“We can lose sight though when we cite the example these days of like, …”

 

Well, because this is a refrain you get a lot from both Whites. And you get it from anti-Whites, sort of non-Whites, including Muslims, in this country. It’s like:

 

“Well if you didn’t bomb our countries!”

 

Now I will say on this. Suffice it to say, well look, we will talk a little while about the whole sort of the White nationalist reaction to the Western humiliation in Afghanistan. But it is an important point to remember. Because I will ask these people then:

 

“Okay so were we bombing Pakistan in the 50s and the 60s?”

 

Now don’t get me wrong. We were doing a lot of shitty things in different places. Like you look at what happened in Iran with the Mosaddegh. But we didn’t, as you say, there’s an economic agenda.

 

You look at stuff like the Windrush, there’s also just an agenda of racial malevolence.

 

Arab SN: Hartley’s comment, I don’t remember us bombing Jamaica in 1948. But the key to that statement is the year, 1948. It wasn’t Jamaica that you needed to have bombed. But there was bombing was there not? So Pakistan was not bombed. Jamaica was not bombed.

 

But Europe did engage in a Hebraic civil war, and wipe out a generation of young European lads that needed to be replaced. And because the Empire existed, the regime was able to simply, … Well, to use “lack of workers” in textile mills in Yorkshire as an excuse. They were able to, ….

 

[30:39]

 

Ayatollah: Yeah, “excuse” is the key point! Excuse is the key point. Because I’m never tired of pointing out when I get into exchanges with these people. Britain, for example, lost 450, 900 natives, I believe. Which was just under one percent of the population that we had in 1939.

 

The Japanese lost two and a half to 3.1 million people from a pre-war population of about seventy one and a quarter million. So they lost about four times what we did per capita. They had two atomic bombs. They did have an awful lot of American rebuilding, and military presence, after the war. But they had a not particularly high birth rate.

 

And they had far greater losses than we did. A lot more psychological devastation and probably a lot more infrastructural devastation, as well. I mean, two cities were hit with, albeit very primitive atomic bombs, atomic bombs. And again they were able to become, I think, the second biggest economy in the world probably by the late 60s.

 

So again it is a canard when these people say that we needed immigration to do this, that, and the other. A few thousand Jamaican bus conductors and substandard nurses, you know, really didn’t sort of didn’t swing it for us!

 

Arab SN: But of course Tollah, you know, all of that is perfectly true. But this country definitely did not need waves of post-war migration. But I suppose it’s academic. Because the people involved, both the people coming say from Jamaica being shipped over from there, and from the Asian subcontinent, they will all have been told, and would believe, that this is the reason.

 

Ayatollah: Yes!

 

Arab SN: That you’re going. So it’s a lie everybody was told.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And then these people, I suppose, expected to be welcomed, because they understood themselves to be going to rebuild after a World War. I’d say as well, I suppose still now, it’s fashionable to talk about the Second World War, … And the Second World War is a large part of My Awakening. It was my reassessment of it.

 

It’s very trendy to discuss the Second World War and the First World War in terms of how diverse and multicultural the war efforts were. So I think it’s in Brighton in this country, you can go to a Muslim cemetery. Just thousands of soldiers who all died for the Empire. I had always been really embarrassed for all of those people in those graves. But it was unfashionable to say so! And I wasn’t always sure why I necessarily thought it.

 

But I’d seen graves in France of Algerian soldiers who had died in the first of the second brother war for France. And I thought this is a humiliation for everybody concerned! It just doesn’t sit well with me. You’re encouraged as a Muslim in this country to be proud of Muslim contributions to to both of those wars. And the Muslim contribution to the rebuilding of the country after. But I’m afraid I see through it all. I just don’t accept any of it!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: It’s hard for me hard to find the words now. But it’s a tissue of lies, from the very beginning. I think we’re getting away from your original question. But I don’t want to get far, ….

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Trust me! If you were if you’re a seasoned listener of these streams you’d know that’s nothing out of the ordinary, honest to god! It’s like attention deficit disorder with me as the host. But, the best conversations are the ones that just sort of proceed as and where the thoughts take them.

 

But there was a question actually. We talked about the whole thing of how did we get onto this? Yeah, we got into the whole subject of the increasingly aggressive anti-Whiteness. Now Orthodoxy Proxy asked earlier on, do you consider Middle Easterners, and he puts in quotation marks “White” and he said:

 

“I’m sure there are people like Vargh who, …”

 

That’s obviously Vargh Vikinus – aka Lewis Cashe, aka Crack Count Grishnack in a previous incarnation when he was in a black metal, and killing other black metal rival people. He said:

 

“You know, I’m sure there are people like Varg who feel some people out there qualify as such.”

 

I mean, I’ll be in trouble, because Vargas said before that:

 

“If you’ve got brown eyes, it’s like I’m looking at shit!”

 

So I probably wouldn’t count. But then most of the people that met me, I probably wouldn’t count as White! [chuckling] But that’s another story! What was that, sorry?

 

[35:19]

 

Arab SN: That’s a bit severe! [chuckling]

 

Ayatollah: I would say a little bit. Yeah, I would. But yeah, I mean, do you consider Middle Eastern as White? That’s quite a broad question, because Middle Eastern is a very broad thing. It could be, …

 

Arab SN: I mean, yeah the answer is “some”. So there are White people all over North Africa, for example. Less so in Egypt. All over Syria. If I were gonna avoid the word White, I might say Caucasian.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: I would probably describe them as Caucasian first. But I would also lament the amount of racial mixing that they’ve done. Which I don’t think is their benefit. And is a legacy of their weakness for slavery.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: You know, which poisons all societies, as far as I can see.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: But yeah, so broadly Caucasian.

 

And actually it brings me to another subject that’s been, … It’s part of the sort of the general patronization of black people. So you’ll find among black people a sad. And I mean, sad. Because I do feel sorry for them when they do this, … A tendency to scour the historical record for people that they think might have been black, and whose achievements they can be proud of, as black people.

 

And it has always grated on me a bit that the Moorish civilization, for example, has been appropriated a certain kind of black nationalist, that’s based on how they see certain Moroccans today. Although Moroccans are not black and would never consider themselves to be.

 

But when I first came across that kind of thing, it got me thinking. Well, if that was done to you, would call it “erasure”, because when you claim the Moors, you’re basically erasing all of the people between Egypt and the Atlantic, and saying that they don’t exist and they’re actually black. But they’re not.

 

And so I’m half Arab. And my pride, I’ve always felt myself lucky, because at least, you know, I don’t think being mixed race is ideal. But at least I have my heritage in two high cultures.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Europe and the Middle East.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Despite how Arab people look, and their race mixing, they are a people with a civilization, which I’m not an expert. I’m not Robert Sepper, or this kind [chuckling] of these kinds of people! But it tends to tell me that this is a Caucasian people, simply, because of their civilizational behaviour, you know, organization, etc., language, literature, high art.

 

So I’ve always been quite proud of that. But never blatantly proud of it obviously, because you’re not allowed to be necessarily. But that always made me think, we’re not black, is basically the answer. I don’t know if that means that they are necessarily White, or always White. But it’s a mixed area. But I would settle on “Caucasian”, is all I’d say.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah, again I’m no expert on sort of HBD and sort of racial classification. And there are a lot of blurred edges. I mean, this is actually a bad faith argument used by race deniers, is to say that:

 

“Well, where do you draw the line between White and non-White?”

 

It’s like:

 

“Yeah, okay well the edges are blurred. And does the fact that you’ve got orange mean, there’s no red and there’s no yellow?”

 

Which is a really basic bitch way to reply, but you don’t need to reply with any more complexity than that, because it’s a really simple retort.

 

Arab SN: And blurred edges are a reality.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: I think ideally there wouldn’t be blurred edges, would there?

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: I think for a lot of people in Europe, a lot of nationalists, whether they’re White nationalists in a broad sense, or say they’re French nationalists in that particular sense, they too would lament blurred edges. It happens inevitably.

 

So the further east you go in France, things will get more German. As you approach Germany there won’t be proper German. Yeah. But if they’ll be Germanish.

 

[40:20]

 

Ayatollah: Arsene Wenger used to manage Arsenal. Where was he from? Was he from Strasbourg?

 

Arab SN: Yeah.

 

Ayatollah: So was that the clues in the name. I think that was Germany before the end of the First World War. I might be wrong. I don’t know. But I mean, he, … What was I going to say now? His accent doesn’t sound like a Parisian, because obviously, well one he’s not from Paris. But he doesn’t sound like a stereotypical French person either. It’s a much more Germanic sounding accent. Where was he from? Yes, Strasbourg.

 

Arab SN: As you go east in Turkey, for example, people get a lot more Asiatic.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: The closer you get to Asia. You can’t stop that unless you have really neurotic policies about marriage and childbirth. Which for most people I don’t think are very practical. But the blurred edges matter, and race mixing, as we alluded to earlier, in a healthy, normal, society, it doesn’t matter! You’ll never see it. It cannot happen unless massive populations of people are thrown together in a synthetic and unnatural way.

 

And since that [word unclear] happened to the Japanese. I’m certain that there definitely are mixed-race Japanese people. Some are mixed with American, because of the American soldiers. Others are mixed with this, or that other ethnicity. Well, there we are. Love happens! And it isn’t that beautiful. But it needn’t be the norm. It won’t even be common at all!

 

Ayatollah: And if it’s not common, then nobody is bothered about it in the collective level. Now the individual level, like me, well-known my girlfriend’s half Indian. Now if my parents were of that sort of inclination they might be in opposition to that, or if she was fully Indian, or whatever. But so that’s an issue for the individuals involved.

 

At the societal level if that was an incredibly rare thing, well it’s not kind of the end of the world. There is a vast amount of space between the historical reality, to varying degrees, because just for reasons of like the actual means of getting around this wasn’t true to nearly the degree, I don’t know, fifteen hundred years ago, as it would have been even two hundred years ago, perhaps.

 

But there is a vast space between yeah you don’t have absolute purity and homogeneity within borders. And then it’s completely different across the border and stays the same until the next border. Obviously not.

 

There’s a vast, vast space between that, and an agenda of just the wholesale dissolution of a race in its homeland! As we’ve seeing in Europe. And we’re seeing in other White countries as well. Pretty much all of them.

 

I mean they’re going to try and do it east of the Iron Curtain. They’re already trying. And yeah, there’s a vast amount of space. And again it’s the same as when people will say:

 

“Well look you’ve got people who are mixed race so how can you have White, a how can you have black, or whatever else it might be?”

 

And it’s like. Well okay, the fact that there’s middle ground in the odd case. There are edge cases, in citing those very edge cases you are defining them in reference to the norms. So you’re acknowledging the existence of the norms while trying to fucking argue against it! That’s how stupid people have to become to try and show fealty to the sort of ridiculous fucking things you have to profess to believe under the present order! That’s how ridiculous it is!

 

Like, I’ll give you an example. The World Cup, … Oh god! I don’t know what it was. But it’s a classic example, so the specifics don’t really matter. But there was somebody commenting on a black footballer, or something else, and some middle aged like shit munching football fan idiot goes:

 

“Well he looks English to me!”

 

It’s like he’s saying that in the knowledge that everybody’s seeing it knows have no he doesn’t! But that’s what I’m meant to say. So he’s fully aware that he lives under an order in a truth regime which rewards him for saying things which frankly, if everybody stripped away the conditioning, they would think:

 

“Yeah, that makes you a fucking moron!”

 

You are going out of your way to make a spectacle of yourself as a moron, or act like one, even worse, when you’re not! You’re humiliating yourself by acting like a complete and utter moron. Because that is what you were rewarded for doing. What sort of order did you live under when you were rewarded for that?

 

And, in fact, not just rewarded for it, but actually, and even the not particularly sort of aggressively conditioned people understand that. First of all. And secondly it’s not even that you’re necessarily awarded. But you’re actually punished if you don’t do that.

 

Arab SN: I mean, look at this tragic figure. This MP David Lammy, I think he’s an MP.

 

Ayatollah: And I do feel sort of sorry for him, because he is a fat retard.

 

Arab SN: I don’t feel sort of sorry for him, I feel fully and legitimately sorry for him. I think he’s a tragic figure.

 

Ayatollah: I think there is a definite element of that, yeah, yeah.

 

Arab SN: And for him in public, on Twitter, demand to be called “English”.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Pleading when you aren’t!

 

[45:13]

 

Ayatollah: This is the thing! I mean, to a degree is being psychologically abused as well. I talk a lot about people being psychologically abused. White people, far and away, more than anybody. Certainly in Europe. But in a way he’s been psychologically abused, you know.

 

Arab SN: It’s a similar way to trans people who want to be real women.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And [word unclear] there to be a difference. I think well we’re just participating in a fantasy with you. And we’re not helping you.

 

Ayatollah: It’s just a charade! Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And for David Lammy to want to be called “indigenous English”, you laugh! It’s funny! I laughed at him. But then I thought:

 

“You poor man! You’ve been lied to.”

 

And certainly there must be a level of hypocrisy on Mr Lammy’s part, as well. Because I don’t know where his origins are. I presume West Africa.

 

Ayatollah: Guyana, I think.

 

Arab SN: So I, … Oh Guyana!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. So obviously Guyana. I mean, it’s funny, because you get a right mix in Guyana. But he’s obviously predominantly, overwhelmingly, African by his actual racial ancestry.

 

Arab SN: [words unclear] in his racial homeland, and say.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Let’s say he were Nigerian. What if I would say:

 

“I want to be officially considered Hausa, or Ibo.”

 

I mean, I laughed saying it! I couldn’t possibly imagine saying something like that! To ask somebody to participate in my ethnic fantasies, is embarrassing to me. But it’s been hoisted to the level of politics in this country!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: You have to at once deracinate David Lammy and pretend that his blackness and his racial background are effectively meaningless, because they’re subject to complete change. And then you’re also saying that the indigenous English are also by themselves meaningless, because you can get off a boat tomorrow and be part of what? The traditions of this country? The wars that have gone on in this country? The land of this country that’s been worked by the people and the ancestors of the indigenous people? I don’t thinkz. So and it would be tasteless to demand to be part of it.

 

Ayatollah: But that tastelessness is regime compliance. If you counter-signal that in your workplace you’d be getting pulled in. If you said:

 

“Well look, he’s not.”

 

Even if you just said:

 

“Well look, he should be happy with what he really is, which is part of the African diaspora living in Britain.”

 

But what are you going to say?

 

Arab SN: He’s not English and I am indeed saying that he’s not to his benefit! I’m helping him to retain his authenticity, his cultural inheritance! The things that are owed to him.

 

Ayatollah: Are you aware, since we’re on the subject of David Lammy, … Are you aware of the red pill on David Lammy?

 

Arab SN: No. I don’t think so.

 

Ayatollah: Okay. Well, we’ll do a quick screen share. I’d imagine a lot of my audience probably are aware of this, but for those who aren’t, … Okay, here we go. This is David Lammy’s Wikipedia. He’s married to somebody called “Nicola Green”. Now it doesn’t say so on here, …

 

Arab SN: Green is a common, …

 

Ayatollah: A very common crypto name like Lewis’s, yeah. Now she’ll be having a big dinner tonight. So there’s your first bit. And your second one, … I feel like, I’ve got the accent, I suppose. I feel like an East London, … Well to a degree. But I’ve got to feel like an East London market trader here! Your second one, is this! David Lammy had his way through Harvard Law paid by a group of jewish lawyers, to the tune of 26 grand.

 

Arab SN: I didn’t know any of this. But, …

 

Ayatollah: It doesn’t change what you’re saying, either. He is a sad spectacle. But it’s interesting.

 

Arab SN: But every single time is not just a meme!

 

Ayatollah: No! It’s not! What it is a meme for good reason. It’s a meme, like cliches become cliches, because they’re bloody useful!

 

Arab SN: Yeah.

 

Ayatollah: The thing I’ll say on this, by the way, on Lammy, is that’s a White pill! Because the man is an embarrassment! And if you want another White pill. Diane Abbott went to, I think Cambridge. What did she, … Hang on a minute. Let me have a look at this:

 

“Dianne Abbot. She went to Cambridge and she read History.”

 

Now please bear with me on this while it loads, …

 

Arab SN: Who’s history, I wonder?

 

Ayatollah: [chuckling] So she scraped at to-to in History at Cambridge. She was supervised by Sir Simon Schama. Whose background I’m sure I don’t need to tell you. So there you go. And again, I suspect there’s a certain amount of stratagem there, in as much as that he probably held a hand through it. And it’s like:

 

“Well we’ve got this black girl from the inner city, or whatever. She’s got political aspirations. We’ll hold her hand and she’ll be there to do our bidding.”

 

I don’t see too many coincidences with these two examples. Now what I think is, if ever you can sort of feel like these people are strategically infallible and they never get it wrong and fuck it up, well look at David Lammy and Diane Abbott! Because even people who will not sort of acknowledge their racial biases, or maybe have them very well suppressed, see these people as utter morons and embarrassments!

 

[51:00]

 

Arab SN: Well, I have a question on that. For me, intellectually and culturally, I left normie life. I very rarely engage in normie news and opinions these days.

 

So I’m not in a position to say to what extent David Lammy, or Diane Abbott are viewed with pity and embarrassment by the general population. But I mean, how far do you think they are? I mean, because for us, it’s obvious! Part of this political environment is you have clarity of vision. And you can see through things. But the normie population can’t.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: So to what extent do you think that David Lammy is an impressive person, or brave, because everybody has to be brave? Perhaps he’s “brave” for wanting to be English in the eyes of normie people?

 

Ayatollah: You’ve answered the question, because, you know, it. And if you’re asking my perspective as you’re half English. I’m fully English. And you obviously have the Arab allegiance. But the deciding factor in understanding this correctly is, will we have the same, … God, it’s not even specific to a race as this proves. We have a correct understanding of race and identity.

 

So whereas that is suppressed out of most people. And even if it weren’t, most people wouldn’t think about it that deeply. Their instinct would suffice in a world where we didn’t live under a hostile occupation where they’re meddling with demographics. And so on!

 

Most people probably wouldn’t see them as sad figures. I don’t think so, no. If they thought about it long enough they might feel a little bit of that, if they really got thinking about it and was sort of led along and how they thought about it. Yes, most people just see them as fucking annoyances. And if they’re more on the Left they tell themselves that they think these people are brave and competent. If they’re sort of Labour supporters and whatever, unless they disagree with them on some policy to do with the NHS, or whatever.

 

No. They probably tell them that they think these people are entirely competent and they’ve not had a leg up for any racial reasons, or anything like that. And they delude themselves. Your average talk radio listener, or whatever, your average sort of egg on Twitter who doesn’t like these people I don’t think they feel sorry for them. I think they’re very irritated by them. The degree to which that is a sense of racial enmity, because they’re being dictated to by a foreigner in their own country, enmity, rather, will be suppressed.

 

But I don’t think they sort of have quite the depth of understanding of race as a sort of an inborn identity and whatever to think:

 

“Yeah, I feel sorry for him.”

 

Think about it long enough, and yeah you’d find feeling a bit sorry for these people, because of the sad spectacle they are. Quite common in our circles. We’re also very irritated by them. But we also recognize them as pawns, because that’s what they are. And that’s shown, you know, look again, and pawns of who? Well, that’s shown by the two examples we’ve given.

 

Arab SN: Yeah.

 

Ayatollah: A couple of other questions from the chat.

 

Viscount15 asked earlier on:

 

“What are your views on Bathism?”

 

Arab SN: My views on Bathism are, as you would imagine, very positive.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: But, of course, I suppose, as with any political ideology, you have yet to separate it’s ideological foundations from its execution, I suppose. So I have a lot of time for Bathism, but very little for Saddam Hussein.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Not least, because between them Saddam Hussein and the Assad families have split the Bath Party between Iraq and Syria, which was a crime. Bathism is the legitimate political inheritance of the Arab people. And it is the only thing that can help them. I say that objectively! Nothing is going to help the Arab world!

 

Islamism is good at destroying, nation, after nation, unfortunately. It builds nothing! Only Arab racial consciousness will help them! And only the Bath Party can provide it in an authentic way. And that, of course, is why Arab nationalist states have to be destroyed. Always! It’s been going on since the end of the Second World War.

 

The obsession, “the Assad must go” obsession is based on nothing than a desire to stamp out secular Arab nationalism from the Middle East! To the benefit of, you know, which (((country))). Because that country will brook no competitors!

 

And Arab nationalist regimes are the only competitors to the country we’re talking about. And I’d add! When it comes to Bathism, the Arab people have definitely been robbed!

 

In particular in the following way. Arab nationalism, whether it’s Bathism, or other iterations, owes everything to European nationalism! Down to everything. To symbolism, to uniforms. Not just the Bath Party, but also the SSNP in Syria. The Iraqi government of the 30s was, let us say, sympathetic to the Third Reich.

 

If you look at the history of Europe. If you look at the German nationalist project, which has obviously been going on for a couple of hundred years, the disparate, and broken up German states, were not able to unify, but for Prussia! Which was the big German state.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: You need a Prussia, always! And people will criticize and say:

 

“Well, that just means that the unification of Germany was less the unification of Germany, and more simply the aggrandizement of Prussia.”

 

Well, I say very well! Fine! At least the Prussians are German. The same goes for Italy. Critics of the unification of the Italian peninsula, and Sicily, and Sardinia, will say:

 

“Well, it wasn’t unification as much as it was simply the aggrandizement of Piedmont [?].”

 

And again, I say fine! Throughout, the post-colonial history of the Arab world people have been looking for a Prussia. It’s either been Egypt, or it’s been Iraq. Iraq was always the more credible Arab Prussia, or Arab Piedmont, so to speak. And that is the reason that it had to be destroyed.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah, well, I mean, with regards to the 2003 Iraq, War, Keith Woods, basically, I think, just posted like a photo, like sort of a page from a book recently pointing out the “Big Oil” in America. And we’re told:

 

“Oh! It was for the oil!”

 

Big oil actually said:

 

“Well, this is not in our interests. So who’s interests is it?”

 

Arab SN: That the oil should flow efficiently, and predictably, and reliably.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. What was I going to say now? Orthodoxy Proxy asked earlier on, as well. He asked, I suppose this is the both of us:

 

“Thoughts on the death of FW de Klerk and the wider prospect for Whites in South Africa.”

 

Well, it’s already pretty awful there for a lot of them. I mean, I don’t think I’ve got anything too definitive, or sort of insightful to say. I mean, I don’t know a lot about FW de Klerk. Was he the last leader of the old regime? Was he a transitional one?

 

Arab SN: Well, he was the last apartheid President, I believe. And he was Nelson Mandela’s, …

 

Ayatollah: Predecessor.

 

Arab SN: Well, he was both. He was Nelson Mandela’s predecessor. And I think his deputy.

 

Ayatollah: I see. Yes, right.

 

Arab SN: They both got the Nobel Prize together, for the end of apartheid. They were awarded it jointly.

 

Ayatollah: I suppose the question would be what he thinks of what it’s like there. Now I think a lot of the blacks in South Africa don’t particularly like things since apartheid changed, to be honest. But it’s not an area of expertise for me.

 

I mean, obviously we know about the atrocities perpetrated against the Boer, and the horrendous crime rates. And the fact that, well who’s going to give a shit and come to the rescue of Whites? Because no one in the international community will do it really.

 

And they’re not going to get any help from a black government, which was ultimately put there by the usual subversives. If you look at people like jews dominated the ANC. They were all around people like that.

 

Arab SN: George Galloway had some interesting remarks about that.

 

Ayatollah: Yes, he did.:

 

“Not a single meal, or car, or floor that we slept on [in a Galloway accent] was not provided by jews!”

 

[Arab SN chuckling] Yeah, something like that. I probably didn’t leave big enough spaces between my words there. He’s a bit like a buffer in video sometimes, isn’t he Galloway.

 

But there was an amusing thing when Galloway stood for election in Bradford West. And was railing against whoever is his opponent was. I don’t know if it was Bradford West, because that was where he stood against the lovely Naz Shah. And I do say that with some irony, let me be clear.

 

But yeah, it might have been no, because he’s stood against Luna King, certainly in the one election. She’s after that tribe as well obviously in support of the Iraq war, in Bethnal Green, was it? But you’re saying about this audiences hustings of like Bengalis, or Pakistanis, or whatever, talking about, … Sounds like:

 

“Who, … Drinks, … Alcohol? It is not, … Me! Who, … Is, … The, … True, … Muslim?”

 

And whatever. But anyway. Yeah, I digress. Yeah, any particular thoughts on de Klerk and the state of affairs in South Africa? And, by the way, it’s Idris isn’t it? Yeah we didn’t even clarify that at the start.

 

[60:30]

 

Arab SN: Well, obviously de Klerk was a party to the dismantling of apartheid. All I’d say about South Africa is that it’s not terribly different to other areas of the world, or other areas of the White world, except that it’s more extreme.

 

And South Africa also has a, I think, a lot in common with other African countries that are mostly constituted, which is to say established, I think, in order to fail. The South Africa that was created by Mandela and de Klerk between them, seems to me to be an experiment.

 

It does not seem to me to be Statecraft, or nation building. Because what possible nation can you build from a country as literally diverse as South Africa? The obvious answer to apartheid, which it was unacceptable to blacks. That’s not very interesting. That’s obvious that it would be that way.

 

The answer is for the Whites either in one big Anglo-Boer State, which I doubt they would allow. But perhaps two White states, one Afrikaner, one British. Something that involved national self-determination not just for the Whites. But for the Zulus too.

 

I mean, imagine as a sovereign Zulu kingdom run on its own terms. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. But they don’t have that. They have something in-between. Something that doesn’t work.

 

I don’t think that the post-apartheid settlement in South Africa works for anyone! I don’t think South Africa is a good staging ground for the national excellence of any ethnic group there! Not the Whites. And not any of the blacks, whatever group they belong to.

 

Ayatollah: A couple of things, actually, before we get on some other stuff. That earlier on I forgot to mention I did mention this to you.

 

But I think we were getting out the car to go to the pub after the conference the other week. And we mentioned, … It definitely was Cardiff we talked about, because this was the example. And I didn’t know this until recently. I was watching a feller called Barry Jones on the Boxing Social podcast in the run-up to the third fight between Fury and and Deontay Wilder, going back over a month now.

 

But anyway, I was reading about Barry Jones. Now Barry Jones is a boxer from Cardiff he was a Super Featherweight World Champion in the late 90s, I think. He’s actually a quarter Yemini.

 

So there you go there’s an example there, but just with regards to what we were talking about earlier on. But there you go. Another thing Jr Hartley up to no good in the chat. And he’s said:

 

“There are rumours that Tollah’s favourite darts player is Falen Sherif [sp]. Well, I had to Googler her. But I did recognize her. And I’ll tell you why. I watched a bit of the Formula One, and they’re advertising the darts. And it turns out this girl is a darts player. So there you go. She’s from Milton Keynes. So there you are. Yeah, I don’t watch the darts”

 

But it’s funny, because there’s a darts player now from Portugal who’s very popular. And his name’s Jose something so I call him the “Special One”, like calling him the Special One, like Mouringo [sp]. Which I think is quite funny.

 

But yeah, I want to get a shirt like a darts player, actually. And then maybe what I’ll do is, rather than having like William Hill and whatever on it, I’ll have like all my favourite streamers and podcasts logo types and stuff. That’ll be good. Turn up to a conference in that.

 

Right, let’s have a quick look at Entropy, because it’s been, well, it’s a bit mad. First of all couple of questions.

 

John Simonari has asked a good one. He said:

 

“What is an Arab? Sudanese, Mauritanians are considered Arab. But they look like Bantu’s, and [word unclear], not the stereotypical Arab look.

 

Arab SN: Yes. So it’s obvious to anyone, isn’t it? When you look at the Arab world it’s clearly not an ethnically unified region. I’d say that it’s probably more helpful to compare the Arab cultural sphere to Rome. In that you have, … I mean, Classical Rome.

 

[65:04]

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: In that you have an overarching sort of umbrella high culture that everybody is taught. Which comes from a particular ethnic group, but as has spread through the cultural apparatus to other groups. I’d see it like that. I think that there are in the Arab world people who take their Arab blood very seriously in that they like to trace their heritage back to the peninsula.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah from the [word unclear]. And so on.

 

Arab SN: Yeah. So if you can do that, you can do that, that’s fine. But yes, it’s definitely true, you know, Somalia is a member of the Arab league. They’re obviously not Arabs.

 

But again it’s I suppose it’s similar to the conversation that we were having some moments ago about the blurred edges, and the periphery. So in North Africa, the further south you go things are still Arab linguistically, culturally. They’re reading Arab newspapers. And they’re still taking direction from the Arab capital, or metropolis. But they’re African. So there is that.

 

But they’ve managed to build a cultural sphere that is at a certain level is unified. Not at the local level, but at higher cultural levels is unified. And the key to all of this is the Arabic language.

 

And so you had a situation in the heyday of Arab nationalism, the 50s, and the 60s, enormous amounts of cultural material being created in Cairo, and Beirut, and Damascus, and Baghdad, that was being consumed throughout the Arab linguistic sphere. So right into Africa.

 

So you had this, … Well the word “empire” is very tainted. But it’s a kind of “cultural empire” that used to exist in a more solid way, and still exists now. When I use the word “Arab” though, I’m not really using it ethnically. I’m referring to Arab States, and the Arab cultural centre.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Glenn the Chinaman, … I mean, funnily enough, on that subject, Glenn the Chinaman has said. And these are just questions. There are donations which we’re going to come to, including from Glenn the Chinaman, very generously. Glenn the Chinaman has said:

 

“Races aren’t a genetic island. There is overlap. Races come about from divergent evolution from separation for thousands of years.”

 

Yeah, well correct, that’s yeah, exactly! Yeah, what else do we have? [chuckling] I’m fairly sure this isn’t, … Sorry. Go ahead.

 

Arab SN: Tollah, what happens if I just need a one minute break?

 

Ayatollah: You go right ahead, you go right ahead, honestly. It’s absolutely fine.

 

Arab SN: All right. Thank you.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah be assured that I somehow keep this rabble entertained on their own a lot of the time, because they’ve got very low expectations. Oh dear! [chuckling] I’m just having a look through some of the stuff people posted on Entropy, some of which I will wait to come to until our guest rejoins us.

 

But yeah, it’s certainly been very, very interesting so far. I want to make sure I’m not falling behind on YouTube whilst we do this, as well, actually. It can be quite a lot to manage but do you know what, actually? I need to bring Idris’ attention to the private chat. Because that’s always there if he needs it, as well. Not all of them always great for remembering to look at it. Because I think it was around about this time last year, that Morgoth was on, and said at one point [in a Morgoth accent]:

 

“I’ve been waiting to go for a piss for the past five minutes, like!”

 

But anyway. Well actually you’ve had one there. Orthodoxy Proxy said:

 

“Care for an impression while we wait for Arab Social Nationalists?”

 

Well there’s one. If you want any more, to suggest any others. [chuckling]

 

Homa Tawk to the Shockmaster! Oh dear [chuckling]! Well the Shockmaster one, … The thing is Homa Tawk, the only bit I can really do is the British bulldog bit, which I pointed out to you which is very quiet. Whereas after the Shockmaster actually falls on his face for some reason. Like the British bulldog. Maybe it’s the thing about being from Bolton, or Wigan, or wherever he was from, he couldn’t distinguish between face and arse! Maybe that’s to say something about the womenutan up there, I don’t know! Don’t descend on me now Lancashire folk. But anyway. He goes:

 

“He found his arse, he fell flat on his fucking arse!”

 

But anyway. Howard long said impression of Dangerfield. I mean, I sound 90% the same as him I think, to be honest. Maybe I speak a little bit more quickly. If I develop develop a drug habit, and emigrate maybe I’ll slow down a little bit. But no plans for it at the moment.

 

[70:08]

 

Well good to have you back, because I’ve struggled to hold the fort, because people start asking for the most ridiculous things when they think they can get away, when I’m on my own!

 

There’s a fellow called Corbyn Army who it’s even been speculated that he’s behind, or was a guest on an antifa podcast, where they discussed Patriotic Alternative extensively, recently. Now, I’m pretty sure this isn’t the real one. The real one has commented on these streams previously. This is one of those situations where the audience are aware of all of this. But the guests typically won’t be.

 

But this fella agreed to a debate with me, pulled out of it. And then blocked me on all of his email accounts. And then asked for a debate, where he didn’t discuss the jews. Which was a little bit of a QED! But, I’m fairly sure this isn’t the real Corbyn Army and he said:

 

“I’ve seen that twat who pays Tollah $150 a show hasn’t shown his face. Probably woken up to the fact that Tollah is a grifting piece of shit!”

 

Well, we’ll come on to that, don’t you worry. But, I’m fairly sure it’s not the real one. And then he’s asked, … Well it says it’s Corbyn Army, but I’m pretty sure it’s not, says:

 

“So what would your advice be to mixed race English people with say a White mother, black father. Are they an outsider to you people, or would they be accepted?”

 

That’s a good question. Speaking from experience, if they are pro-White, and they are anti-regime, to a large degree, I’m probably going to have more time for them. Those are very, very small outliers. But I know one, or two. Although I’ve got a comment on that, but in a moment.

 

But I would say if basically they take our side, and that extends to its going to help if they sort of know what all of this is really about, then ultimately I’ve got a lot more time for them, than I’ve got for any fucking White liberal! It’s as simple as that! Because who you are, and what you stand for matters.

 

And there’s something to be said on this, which I’ll say just speaking for myself, as somebody perceiving it in others. But when, and you talked Idris about the expectation that you would go along with the anti-racist, i.e., anti-White agenda and whatever. Go on the marches, all this sort of stuff. There’s something to be commended in people where they would probably have it a lot easier, given the choice with some non-White ancestry. And all the advantages and sort of privileges that can confer in a White society under the occupation, we’re under.

 

First of all “clarity of thought” is something we’re going to talk about. To have the clarity of thought to actually, … And they might be helped along by meeting the right people, seeing the right video, whatever. To have the clarity of thought to arrive at the right conclusion which most people of any race don’t manage to do, because of all the propaganda and misinformation.

 

And then actually to take what is quite a courageous step to, … They’ve got an easier way out. They’ve got a way out that is potentially a bit easier than just being a White normie, who’s put upon and demonized all the time. They basically take the side of right, when first of all they’ve got the consideration that, well they understand as well as anybody else.

 

In some ways maybe it’s easier for them to say some of the things we say. But it’s still tends not to be welcomed. They’ve got that consideration that you become something of a pariah.

 

And then secondly, how, … And we’ll come on to this sort of thing. How are you going to be received by basically, White nationalists? So, to be quite honest when you get these very rare cases. But I know a few of them, of people of mixed ancestry taking up the sort of, … How would I put this? The dissident White nationalist cause. And I include the dissident part there, they’re pro-White. But they oppose fundamentally the present order, and it’s agendas. I’ve got a lot of admiration for that.

 

And again, I’ve talked before about honoraries and adopted. And I don’t think very many people just begrudge on face, somebody for what they are by racial category. We talk in generalities.

 

When you deal with individuals you’ve got to take the individual at face value. That’s what I would say on that.

 

But I’m curious to what you would say on that general subject? We’ve touched on some of it, but any sort of further thoughts?

 

Arab SN: Well I think that the question speaks to how long it took me to necessarily arrive at the dissident Right. Because I think one of the things, … For people who are half White, I think one of the things that stands in the way of them thinking more critically about the regime, and it’s orthodoxy, is childhood experiences of crass racism!

 

That really helps you to feel rejected by White people. And therefore to turn against them down the line. And I’ve never been anti-White. But if I was ever indifferent to White interests, it will have been, because of the bitterness of certain childhood experiences of rejection by White people. Some people don’t get over that.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And some people think that racism is more meaningful than it really is. And as I’ve gotten older, I can’t accept the Left wing view, … Actually, I don’t even think it’s Left-wing. I think it’s just the view, that racism, and angry demonstrations of racism, are fundamentally meaningless! Or they’re just expressions of hate, which is a word that I hate! [chuckling] Because it doesn’t mean anything.

 

If you can say to yourself:

 

“Well, what’s the root of the anger? Does this person really, instinctively, despise people who are not lily White?”

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Most of the time I don’t think so.

 

Ayatollah: No.

 

Arab SN: I think that, …

 

Ayatollah: It’s a feeling of encroachment.

 

Arab SN: Yes.

 

Ayatollah: And also kids cruel! Because kids are! And you’ll get singled out for anything!

 

Arab SN: Yeah, they’re bastards.

 

Ayatollah: And I had a story. I remember a fellow I know in our circles was saying once, like where I grew up. And he grew up in a fairly diverse area. But he was saying like:

 

“Everyone was White the school I went to, but like the Indian couple who owned the shop, naturally, their daughter went to our school. They must have been Sikhs, because her name was Cameljer.”

 

So he said:

 

“So naturally everybody called her Camel Shit!”

 

And you’re just thinking yeah kids are bastards, but it can be fucking hilarious! But then again, I digress.

 

[76:53]

 

Arab SN: They are. But the Left capitalizes on that. So you as an ethnic person, let’s say. You have these experiences of racism and the Left is not actually, I should stop saying the Left, because it’s actually the broader political culture. They’re waiting to tell you that’s the position of White people. That’s what White people are. Well, they’re not! And we’ll come to it when we introduce it.

 

But I have embraced a certain political philosophy that was predominant in Central and Western Europe in the 30s. And you would think that would be the precise environment where I would be on the receiving end of the worst, the crassiest, the scariest racism.

 

Ayatollah: If you believe the caricature, as you would. Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Yes. But it isn’t.

 

Ayatollah: No.

 

Arab SN: It just isn’t. The angry and scared, crass, racist is real. But I understand why that person exists. They’re scared. Yeah, they see what’s going on. And they think that I personally am the problem. So I can’t pretend that all of this stuff comes out of the ether.

 

But the point I was trying to make was that there is this experience of racism that can lead half White people away from their White side. And can lead them to reject it, because they feel rejected. I think, perhaps there’s something that White people could do.

 

Perhaps White people could take White blood more seriously and embrace it where they find it. Even if they don’t find it 100 percent present, they could say:

 

“Hello! Welcome!”

 

To you. Because if White blood and White ancestry matters, then it matters! And if somebody is fully half White, then perhaps you would do well to be a bit more welcoming to them. Not least, because my mother, she has ethnic rights. And she has the right for her children to have access to White culture and White life. That’s my inheritance from her.

 

So I mean, I was going to say, like if the Nuremberg Law was applied, I’d be a full citizen of the Reich. Because in the Reich German blood was taken seriously.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Even if you had a full half, you had a full half. You can’t argue.

 

[80:00]

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. This is the interesting thing. If you go and look at Nuremberg Laws. And do you know what, this was actually pointed out to me. When I was at the outset of the relationship I was getting into, I was talking to people about it. And somebody came back to me, and I’d honestly never considered it, or thought about it. And I didn’t know a lot about the Nuremberg Laws. And he basically said:

 

“Under the Nuremberg Laws your children will be full citizens. And I think so would she.”

 

However you have to caveat that by saying that we’re not the same demographic considerations at that time as there are. Now I will say that for the sort of the pro-White community, as and where you have outlier cases of people of mixed ancestry, look if they’re genuine and they’re valuable people, character matters! And I’m not saying it makes you any more virtuous, clearly it doesn’t.

 

But look, if you’re an outlier, look you’re just an outlier. And I’ll always take the individual on the merits. That’s my view on it.

 

I mean, Albion Forever has made a point:

 

“If our society was socially pro-White I think a lot of these people would just lean our way and identify with their White side.”

 

Yes, they would I do think there’s also a degree of what Idris talked about with the TASOB lads. Which is you’re always identified, even whether you want to be by your otherness, so that’s true.

 

But I also think, and not applicable in your case Idris, however something I’ve noticed with people I know who are sort of in the pro-White cause who are partially non-White ancestry, is they have White fathers. And I think an element of that is, …

 

For one thing when you say “mixed race” you probably picture somebody who’s half White, half black. And you think of having a White single mother and a black father. And it was just like to whatever extent it was even a relationship it was probably short-lived. That’s the cliche for good reason, because it’s a very common thing. Tends to be a lower status, you know, sort of maybe not the most sort of “chaste” White woman. And a sort of a just a black man who ain’t too fussy himself. That’s the cliche of it.

 

There are a lot of different dynamics and sort of archetypes of mixed race relationship, because you’ve got, … We talked about this a lot with Frodi Midjord, who was on. It’s a very prevalent thing even where he’s from the Faroes, it’s very remote place, but also throughout Scandinavia.

 

And it’s been a thing for a long time in this country as well. Which is the middle aged White man, very often divorced, goes and basically buys a bride from southeast Asia, because more younger, more submissive. They want to get out and have a better standard of living. And so on and so forth. You also have, … It’s a funny thing, because you even see this on a very, very small scale.

 

But these relationships statistically are quite stable, where you’ve got higher status White men with higher status black wives. And I know somebody like that as well, within our circles!

 

But there is a sort of a thing. And some of it can be maybe traveling in a professional career with work, where there is a certain type of higher status White man who sort of above average IQ, does well financially, ends up taking a foreign wife. It’s more often sort of a higher status man. And quite often it’ll be a higher status foreign woman. Maybe, or it’s the sort of Thai bride thing. So there are a lot of interesting dynamics to it.

 

But I think when people have got a strong White father that seems to go a long way. Whereas I suppose if you’re, maybe you’re in the cliched situation of like your dad’s parents were from Jamaica and your mum’s off the estate, or whatever. Well you’re probably raising a single parent household, you stand out for your otherness. And there’s no strong father figure in your life. But you end up identifying with the black side anyway. And the sort of the zeitgeist encourages you to do that anyway. And that you are also defined by your otherness, you know.

 

Arab SN: Yeah, I think that this is a big conversation. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I’m very mindful of that, as I said, I’m not going into too much depth. But yeah.

 

Arab SN: You’ve given a really good summary. Because, yes, there are different ways and circumstances in which a mixed race relationship will come about. And there are definitely class issues.

 

To use an example, it’s not always the case that the immigrant is always the same either. So people have a view of immigrants especially, you know, in our context now. So immigration and the waves that are coming now to the West, are basically the transfer of the peasantry of this, or that country, to Europe.

 

But immigration is not always worked that way. And so at a certain time in this country you might have had a trickle of migration from countries that were very oppressive dictatorships, because there is a certain kind of person in that country who simply cannot live in those circumstances.

 

[85:03]

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Who’s too clever, or too creative, or too cynical. A person who just can’t go along. And so they’ll seek a different life abroad. Their entire interaction with the new country is different. And I described a bit, …

 

My dad is of this sort. And it’s affected my relationship with White people. And it’s affected my relationship with White society, because I’ve always been able to interact with White society at a certain level. And so for other immigrants who are, let’s say at the bottom of this hierarchy. And who are having children with marginal White women, off the estate, as you say, the experience is entirely different.

 

And in the latter case, it just has the quality of a horrible experiment. Because those couplings at that end of society I think are less likely to be successful.

 

Ayatollah: Yes, yeah.

 

Arab SN: You are talking about White women, or White men, who choose a foreign partner. The success of those relationships is greater, because as you were saying, they’re at a social, or educational, or cultural, or background level, that makes them compatible beyond race.

 

Ayatollah: Yes.

 

Arab SN: And so for them you’re in love [chuckling] and, you know, love matters! You have to talk about that too. You’re in love, …

 

Ayatollah: This is not advocacy, I would stress, by the way, in any sense from either. What it is, it’s just an observation of the reality and how these things come to be. For example, with the high status middle-aged White man who takes a black wife. Well a lot of us would think:

 

“Well, that’s a strange taste!”

 

And okay, maybe he’s got sort of atypical inclinations. But he probably knows what he’s about and what he wants. And as you said, they are able to connect beyond, you know, okay, beyond the level of race. It seems to trivialize race.

 

But there are other things. And particularly in a sort of a, for better, or worse, largely for worse, of course, in a globalizing world where there is a world culture for a certain type of person. A certain level of education and professional attainment. And generally I dislike those people! [chuckling] But yeah, there is a sort of, …

 

Arab SN: And money, and high status change you, don’t they?

 

Ayatollah: They do. Exactly!

 

Arab SN: And make things available to you, and they make things acceptable. A mixed-race relationship undertaken by some millionaire, he’s not just in a relationship, … I don’t know, with some foreign peasant! It’s likely this person is probably also at the top of her society, as well.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: That matters! Class and money, all play their part. They play their part at the top end of race mixing. And at the bottom end of race mixing too. It’s relevant.

 

But yes, it’s not advocacy! Because I don’t think that race mixing is desirable. I think that’s its something, … And the reason that I know it’s not desirable isn’t that my experience of it has been particularly bad, because it hasn’t. It’s a problem that nobody ever asked to be solved.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: So your (((fellow Whites))) do a lot of advocacy for White race mixing.

 

Ayatollah: I think they do kind of more, or less, all of it, to be honest! But yes, [chuckling]

 

Arab SN: Yeah. Well, what problem is it solving? There isn’t a problem here.

 

Ayatollah: Well, it’s solving a problem for them.

 

Arab SN: For them! Yes! But not for White people. It’s very difficult for me to make a case for race mixing for White people. And I may not even have strong feelings about it. But it’d be difficult for me to make the case that a young English lad should make his life difficult by marrying some Nigerian woman. Why!

 

Ayatollah: Hmm.

 

Arab SN: It’s not answering any problem!

 

Ayatollah: Well, it’s like immigration itself. Again what problem is it solving that we didn’t have?:

 

“Oh, okay, we didn’t have enough people in that profession!”

 

Well, you know, bide your time and fucking train them! Or offer more money.

 

Arab SN: Yeah!

 

[90:01]

 

Ayatollah: You’d never in good faith, … I mean, okay, it happened on a small scale, you had the Yemini workers in the docks in Sunderland, or Cardiff, or whatever. Happened on small scales! It wasn’t:

 

“Let’s just import a thousand villages from Mirpura [sp] into West Yorkshire!”

 

Arab SN: Those Yeminis had a clear context. And it was the sailing business. They were sailors from Yemen. And they lived in these port cities. And they married locally, and there we are. And now you wouldn’t be able to identify those children from the population, because they were completely absorbed. Why? Because it wasn’t mass migration! It wasn’t deliberate! It was the migration and race mixing that comes from human interaction.

 

Ayatollah: It was a bit of an outlier, yeah.

 

Arab SN: But it was not a trend. It had no meaning beyond the individual marriages that occurred. It didn’t change the local culture. You may have had a Yemini coffee house [chuckling] in Tiger Bay, or Sunderland. You may have been able to procure Yemini food if you wanted it. There might have been a little mosque around the corner somewhere, down an alley.

 

But nothing meaningful! Nothing that had the character of a demographic experiment, where you’re trying to fundamentally change, or to eliminate the local culture!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah, there was something I was going to say about this now, and I’ve forgotten what it was. What was the point I was going to make, now?

 

Well, this was the point I was going to make. It’s like again, no one is really that bothered, I don’t think, no one is really that bothered about the odd, the isolated thing, which might have happened were we not under a sort of a hostile regime.

 

But nothing remotely akin to the project that has been ongoing more, or less, since the end of the Second World War, and has been accelerating the past couple of generations.

 

The analogy would be. Look, if you go out and get absolutely, … And I don’t drink. But if you go out and get absolutely hammered couple of times a year, look you’re going to have a headache the next day. But you’re probably not going to do yourself any long-term harm. Whereas if you’re knocking back five, or six pints five, six, nights a week. And then maybe getting completely addled on the weekend, you will feel the effect of it. And you’ll look beyond your age. And your memory will start to go. And your speech will start to slur, and whatever. And there you are, you know, outliers are outliers.

 

[92:29]

 

Arab SN: This experiment that we’re discussing, I am not certain in any case, whether it’s even working. Because there are your (((fellow Whites))) want it to work! And they work very hard to promote it.

 

But if we were to take Yorkshire, for example, I’m not sure how much race mixing goes on up there. I’m not sure how often you’ll see, you know, mixed-race, young people. And I’m not sure how much the Pakistanis even want it anyway.

 

Ayatollah: And sub-continentals in general, … But it probably applies more with Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, because then there’s also the religious factor where they’re more resistant to out-marriage than, …

 

Arab SN: They tend to be quite strict about these things. And one thing that I found peculiar about the Counter Jihad movement was that, … Well the Counter jihad movement, and the sort of less intellectually robust end of the BNP, there would be this bemoaning and bewailing of the quote “Muslim”. Which is to say in this country Pakistani’s lack of integration. And I would think to myself.:

 

“Well, hang on! How desirable is an integration? Do you even want it?”

 

It’s lamentable that entire towns, like Dewsbury, have been given over to a foreign ethnic group. However, at least they’re not mixing with the native population. I think that matters, … I think that’s the Counter Jihad movement, because it’s fundamentally globalist and globo-homo, and it’s pro everything basically.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. And trips over itself to declare itself so it gets a free pass for it’s kind of fundamentally territorial ill will, understandably so, toward a foreign group, …

 

Arab SN: Effectively complaining. And I have heard people like Robert Spencer complain about this explicitly. They lament that Muslims, which in the UK means Pakistanis, and in France means Arabs, I suppose.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Lamenting that they won’t marry off their daughters to White men! And I think well how terrible is that? Do you really want that? If that was happening in front of you. And if that were common, would you really be happy with it?

 

[95:03]

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: That’s some of the clues that, you know, that the Counter Jihad movement is a jewish movement! Because, under the guise of nationalism, it was promoting everything that was negative. So the massive presence of foreigners on these islands, I don’t think is good. But what I think is good, is the lack of integration, where you see a lack of integration. I think that’s better for Whites.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. I mean, I will say that. I mean, he’s not worded it too tactically. But I think Mr X has got a point in the chat where he said:

 

“Even if there’s no mix, the immigration doesn’t stop. And we will be swamped!”

 

So it’s shit either way, as you’ve said. But then that I could say that is basically what you said anyway.

 

Arab SN: Yeah, I agree. But if it were one thing or the other, … Being swamped yes, you’re swamped. But if your ethnic group has its ethnic integrity, then at least you have that. God forbid that these islands end up as some iteration of Brazil. Which for me is highly undesirable!

 

Ayatollah: You talked before. I mean, we did talk about the, because you have some firsthand experience of it growing up in the White area. And it’s a thing we both fully understand. Which is the reactive hostility you’ll get, particularly as a kid. If you stand out, you stand out for being non-White, or whatever.

 

Now on that subject something I always think back to, because you’ll get people will sort of come at you with the argument of oh, you know, they’ll overlook the Rotherham, the Telford, the Newcastle, Manchester, and there’s a certain sort of archetype of the kind of like the “sassy hijab” will come back about this and be like:

 

“Oh, what about the girl who gets a headscarf pulled off on the bus?”

 

And it’s like I’m advocating the solution to all of that. Which is that, … [Arab SN sneezes] Bless you, … Well, shouldn’t say “bless you”! I’m sure there’s an Islamic counterpart to that. But, you know, yeah there we are.

 

But basically you’ll have the sort of people arguing from their own interests. You’ve got the archetype of the sort of sassy, you know, “hijabi girl”, who’s distinctly lacking in traditional Islamic modesty, I’ll say that much. But, you know. Yeah, there’s no fucking argument there! There’s a reason why White nationalists said the old Islam is right about women’s stickers going around! [Laughter] But we had our own sort of solid ideas on that a long time ago as well, ….

 

But like to give the example, yeah they gloss over you sort of your Rotherham’s, your Newcastle’s, your Manchester’s, Telford, you name them. And it’s like:

 

“Well, what about the poor, what about Christchurch!”

 

Or what about:

 

“The poor girl who gets a scarf torn off on the bus, or whatever, by the dreaded gammon?”

 

Well, look, my ideal for society is a situation where none of it can happen! Right? To give an example of this, there was a boxer, a boxing trainer more he was. Better as a trainer than a boxer. I think a fella called Dave Caldwell from Sheffield. And he was born in Calcutta. His father was English and his mother is Indian. And growing up where he did in Sheffield he got a hell of a lot of stick.

 

I mean, I’m reading something from what he said here is like he get a lot of stick. And a lot of probably violence when he was a kid. And so he got into boxing. He’s only a little fella. He’s like five foot three. But he was saying:

 

“I’d always think about what happened when I had a family, revealed Caldwell, recalling the 1990s northern British climate, that viciously stole his childhood. What would happen if I was walking down the street with my kid. And one of the bullies just came over and beat me up? How can I protect the family when I couldn’t even look after myself? Those are the questions I asked myself.”

 

Now that is nothing other than tragic. But again as much as we’ve talked about the fringe cases, we advocate for a world view where those issues don’t arise! You could look at Rotherham, you could look at Christchurch. If you have a nationalist conception in the world. And people should broadly speak and be where they belong.

 

And we shouldn’t be under a regime which among other indignities and atrocities, you know, goes about the wholesale demographic sabotage of basically all of Europe, to name one, North America. And so on and so forth. Then you don’t have these problems!

 

The point is, it is the present order. And again there are people, other than people of my own race, who have their own grievances against it. And we have common grievances. I mean, well, you know, Afghanistan is a subject we’ll come to.

 

But there’s Entropy’s been busy tonight I want to go through a few things on there here quickly.

 

Corbyn Army asked again. And I don’t know if this is the real one, or not. It could be.:

 

“So will you be doing a stream on the diversity of the 2021 Christmas adverts. I always find your reaction somewhat amusing.”

 

Yeah, I might do.

 

[100:00]

 

Steve Choir CD Soho, Steve Squire, I struggled with this one last time. Steve Squire CD Soho Shop, said:

 

“Tollah, why do I get the feeling you do an incredible cover, or can do an incredible cover of ‘What is Love’ by Hadaway. Written by White people, by the way.”

 

You think wrong! I don’t think I could!

 

Also, JR Hartley asked earlier:

 

“Can I do an impression of Dr William Luther Pierce?”

 

And, not really. The best I can do is the only bit of Pierce that I can recall off the top of my head is what the little excerpt from him in the intro to The Daily Shoah podcast, where he goes, … And the key to this really is replicating the poor audio quality by putting my hand over my mouth. It’s sort of like:

 

“Men of their race are still being born with the Right stuff!”

 

That’s about as good as it gets. Sorry! But having finished embarrassing myself, for now [chuckling]. Steve Squire CD Soho Shop is doing a bit of TASOB nostalgia from when Idris was on there. And has simply said:

 

“Do you, … (because I’ve got to do the Charlie voice), … Do you denounce Muhammad? Mate! He’s on our fucking side!”

 

They’re a fun crowd I’ll give them that.

 

Alligator Snapping Turtle simply said:

 

“Okay, you win Tollah. Long Hot Summer is a fucking tune. Been listening to it for the last week now.”

 

And he’s just said then:

 

“Don’t matter what I do! Don’t matter what I do! Don’t matter what I do, because I end up hurting you!”

 

Which is the lyric from the song, anyway. But I appreciate that Alligator Snapping Turtle.

 

Now donations, donations, donations, donations [chuckling]. There’s a nice Peep Show reference in there. Mark the Shark has donated 10 pounds. And that’s very kind of you Mark! Because he simply said:

 

“Just a small token of gratitude for the streams.”

 

Well, I greatly appreciate it Mark. And I also appreciate the Peep Show reference though. You know, :

 

“Yes! Mark the Shark is in business!”

 

Are you a Peep Show fan, Idris?

 

Arab SN: Yes!

 

Ayatollah: Do, you know what? We wouldn’t have talked about politics if I’d known that on the day. So it’s probably for the better that we didn’t. But, …

 

Arab SN: And I think I have some political views about Peep Show.

 

Ayatollah: I’d love to hear this, go on.

 

Arab SN: So I’m in my mid thirties. So I’m a product of Tony Blair. I think it will only take a couple of years before Peep Show is not necessarily understandable to young people, who are, …

 

Ayatollah: Right.

 

Arab SN: Who are coming to it. I think it represents the degeneracy that I was raised in. The sort of Tony Blair bullshit world, neo-liberal.

 

Ayatollah: Actually going out to the fuck bunker, rather than go staying on [word unclear].

 

Arab SN: Yeah, [chuckling]. I think that Peep Show is a really interesting cultural snapshot.

 

Ayatollah: Yes. I think you’re right actually.

 

Arab SN: Of a period in this country where you’re perhaps more optimistic than justified.

 

Ayatollah: But there is still a futility and nihilism about it all. But yeah, definitely. Yeah, but nothing like now! Nothing like what we have now! Probably the generation to follow, … We are probably somewhere between the ages that Mark and Jez were and the Zoomers, I suppose, aren’t we?

 

Arab SN: Yeah, well it ends on Mark’s 40th birthday.

 

Ayatollah: Yes. Yeah, well, Jez’s fortieth birthday. And you’ve got the northern Irish ginger lad in the shop where he’s getting the banner. He has to say:

 

“Jeremy! You are 40 years old!”

 

I’m trying to remember what he says in his Ulster accent, the northern Irish lad. I can’t remember. But it’s an interesting thing, …

 

Arab SN: Do, you know what Mark? Exclamation mark, or anything?

 

Ayatollah: Yeah [chuckling].

 

Arab SN: You are 40!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah [chuckling] Peep Show is quite interesting. And the other thing is there’s loads of it. So there’s a lot that can kind of be discussed. And it covers a big time period. It covers 12, 13 years.

 

Arab SN: It’s nine seasons, yeah.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah! Fantastic show! Yeah.

 

Glenn the Chinaman has donated, well he’s done that more than once actually. But he’s very generously donated 10 US dollars. And he said:

 

“I think it is an obvious plan for zionists to empty out greater Israel of non-just. However, the need for endless growth of capitalism drives migration more. All countries with a shrinking worker population bringing workers. Saudi, Korea, Thailand, all bringing foreign workers.”

 

Yeah, it’s very true. I mean, I’ll say this. It’s obviously the case that the mass immigration into the West goes far, far, far, beyond, and is far older than any agenda to basically just depopulate the sort of the greater Israel area of Muslims. Because that doesn’t explain Jamaica, and India, and China, and whatever else.

 

[105:02]

 

Arab SN: There are several goals.

 

Ayatollah: Oh, yeah, absolutely! Yeah yeah.

 

Arab SN: At the top there’s a reason that they don’t direct all of this migration into Africa. They direct the migrants into Europe, because there is something that they do not like about Europe, and about White people. And that they would like to change, demographically.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: But in the case of Syria and Iraq, you’re able to do two things at the same time. You’re able to deal a serious blow to social cohesion and normalcy in Western Europe. And you’re also able to clear the ground for Israel’s expansion in the Middle East.

 

Ayatollah: Yes.

 

Arab SN: Yeah, it’s well observed. But it’s not representative of every case. I don’t think they have any particular animus towards Jamaica.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: In fact, I think Jamaica is probably a country they like very much.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah [chuckling]. Very influential there as well. The Gleaner company, and so on. To this day I think, as well.

 

Arab SN: Yeah. But there was population from Jamaica that you could move to these islands. So yeah, the model is not always the same.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah, ultimately when you have that level of power you have your fingers in many pies. And yeah, the population transfers and demographic sort of meddling could serve a great many purposes, be their economic, demographic.

 

Arab SN: Yes. And so I would say the Western interventions in Iraq and Syria are plainly designed to accommodate the strategic ambitions of Israel.

 

Ayatollah: Oh yeah!

 

Arab SN: However, the intervention in Haiti represents a different set of goals all together. Bad for Haiti. But they want something different out of those islands, I think. I encourage people to look at BitChute for material on that.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Glenn the Chinaman has followed up with another five dollars just to clarify. Because the you got the character limit on Entropy. But certainly if ever you’ve got a point you want to make. First of all just ask the question. There’s no donation obligation god. [chuckling] And if you run out of characters and you have donated, just put it in there and bring it to my attention. If it’s on Entropy I shouldn’t miss it.

 

But Glenn the Chinaman with another five dollars. Thank you very much Glenn. Has gone on, and he’s gone on again thereafter actually:

 

“The difference is with Saudi and Korea, and the UK, and Japan there is no pathway to citizenship. And they don’t get the rights of a citizen. That is from a different element pushing that. [word unclear] is the number one threat regardless.”

 

Yes! You have a sort of a neo-liberal dystopia in a place like the United Arab Emirates where eighty percent of the people there are foreigners. And there is a quite clearly delineated caste of foreign labour there that does pretty much everything. Because the natives are small in number and generally it’s a free house, and whatever else. And they get a stake in a foreign business. And so on.

 

And they have clear supremacy, and you can’t just become a citizen. So I will give them that at least. They’re looking after their own. It’s still a big shopping mall. And it’s still gaudy and not rooted in anything wholesome, or authentic. But, what we are, as White people, in our countries is we’re effectively hostages of a very malevolent regime that’s just working it dispossess us and demoralized.

 

Arab SN: It’s different in the Gulf. It’s also different in Malaysia. In those places they have clarity. So you can go, you know, as anybody as an Indian, as a White person, as anybody, you can go to the UAE, make your fortune, enjoy yourself.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: But you’re not Emirati! You never will be! They’ll never allow it. There’s no pathway to citizenship. There’s no cultural entree. It’s just simply is the case that the indigenous population, they really do just segregate themselves off from this massive foreign element.

 

And I’d add, as well, that in many of these countries it is considered impolite for foreigners to even speak to the locals. So I think that the model of the UAE is fundamentally depraved. And I would never recommend it for anybody.

 

But they’ve chosen to pursue endless economic growth by importing foreigners on a short-term basis, and having some kind of massive turnover of foreigners.

 

On the other hand, in Malaysia, you have a situation where under British rule a lot of Chinese, … Well, what was done to Malaysia is perhaps not terribly different to what’s being done to Western countries today. It’s a bit of a British Empire model to flood a subject country with a different race. So as to muddy waters, politically, and to create division. So in Malaysia you have about one-third Indians, one-third Chinese, and one-third indigenous Malay, who are Muslims.

 

[110:45]

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: The supremacy of the Malays isn’t questioned. And the primacy of their language, their culture, the Islamic religion, it’s all clear! Everybody knows! I would not worry about that kind of clarity in the United Kingdom.

 

Ayatollah: No!

 

Arab SN: At all!

 

Ayatollah: Which is a point I’ve made. That’s my vision of it, as well. Like, would I want the one-third this, one to that, demographics? Obviously not! But would that be more manageable, where it was just an unquestioned thing, that right, this is theirs. Which is to say that, okay, look you could be a foreigner in our country, and you might have British friends and whatever else. You might live your whole life here. But it’s not your place to have a say in the political process. And that’s not a snub against you, or any sort of hostility. It’s just like:

 

“Well, look, you’re a welcome guest in my house perhaps, …”

 

But this is.

 

Arab SN: You can’t [word unclear] the walls, …

 

Ayatollah: Yeah, exactly! You’re not picking the next sofa and all that. Yeah, which is a really sort of basic bitch way of putting it. But it works. And I think actually in discussing that we’ve answered another question, really, from Orthodoxy Proxy, which was.:

 

“What do you think of the policies of the Gulf states where, …”

 

It’s not just Indians. Indians are a big part of it. Indians, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, particularly in the construction industry. But he said:

 

“Indians make up close to 70 to 80% of the entire population.”

 

It’s generally 80 to maybe 85% in places like Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, which are foreign labour. But a large proportion of that is Indian sub-continent. But then you’ve got Filipinos, Chinese. You’ve got some Africans, East Africans. Domestic servants are often not treated too well as well. And Europeans, as well. But I think we’ve probably answered that. But any further thoughts on that general subject, Idris?

 

Arab SN: Yeah I do, in fact, just one. The development model of the smaller Gulf States. I don’t think is any good. I don’t think it was ever necessary. I just think it’s extravagant.

 

But yeah, they do take solid measures to protect the indigenous culture, and people as it’s primacy. I would add, as well, that those people in the Gulf, I’m talking about the locals. They have a racial consciousness that extends beyond their own Arabism.

 

And it used to be the case, I don’t know if it is now. When I was younger I used to periodically look on Indeed [?], and similar websites, for jobs in the Gulf. And I would often find adverts that would say. The advert would be in English, because they understood that they were going to need an expat for this. They weren’t going to find a local person. The advert would be in English. And it would stipulate the following:

 

“Must hold UK, Canadian, US, Australian, New Zealand, or South African, nationality.”

 

[Tollah laughs] They wanted White people.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: They know! And being a nationalist and being a racially conscious person under this regime, you have to do verbal gymnastics all the time, and try to find a way of speaking about something without really speaking about it.

 

And I found it in these in these job adverts that what these Gulf Arabs wanted was White people to come and do this or that job! [chuckling] But they couldn’t say something. So they had to find some other way! I don’t know if they still do that. But it would be a good, it would be instructive. Have a look and see what’s there.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. What you’ll also find, … I once had a sort of acquaintance with the lad from Iraq many years ago. This was all on the internet. But like a lad from Iraq. But I think he’d spent part of his life in the Gulf. And he said:

 

“A lot of the older folks in places, …”

 

Like, I don’t know, Dubai and whatever, were who were old enough to remember these places before they went mad and suddenly there were skyscrapers popping up out of the sand dunes. He didn’t like it all. Because you wouldn’t would you?

 

And also, even if you had the sense that I’m literally privileged, I have native privilege, you probably still wouldn’t like walking around, … So you wouldn’t hate it neither degree that I would dislike walking through parts of say Birmingham, or London, or whatever. Certainly not! But you would not like walking through a shopping mall, or whatever in, I don’t know, bloody Abu Dhabi, or Doha, or whatever, and everyone there’s like a Westerner, or they’re an Indian, or a Filipino, or sort of an Ethiopian. Of course, you wouldn’t! It’s just alienating!

 

[115:50]

 

Arab SN: I’ve been there.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Weird places!

 

Arab SN: I was in one of these shopping malls. And there was an old Emirati man. Very, very old. And he couldn’t speak English yeah.

 

Ayatollah: Which is rare. Among the younger ones they all will.

 

Arab SN: Yeah, they all can. But he couldn’t speak English. And we were in this like food court of a mall. And he couldn’t order food, because nobody around him spoke Arabic. And certainly nobody behind the counter spoke Arabic either. They were all immigrant Labour. And so I would order this food for him. But I thought:

 

“What sort of trade-off is it for this man?”

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: They’ve got oil, for fuck’s sake! I mean, you don’t need all of this rubbish. You could live traditionally, and quietly, and happily, from the oil industry to import all of this extra stuff. And to make an elderly local person feel that way. To feel literally, completely, like, there’s nobody to speak his language to.

 

And so these Emiratis they have to mix with each other in very specific contexts and places. Because the reality is they live in a country where they can’t speak their own language. And they’ve traded it up:

 

“Okay, we’re a rich country. We’re internationally famous. And we’ve got this. And we’ve got that.”

 

I’m not sure any of it really makes up for what they’ve given up.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Glenn the Chinaman has followed up with another three dollars. And he said:

 

“Would you have a nationalist from Japan on? I can possibly get one from Korea, as well. There’s a lot in common with you guys, even the dislike of migrants from Pakistan.”

 

Yeah if language isn’t a barrier then I possibly would, because these are interesting conversations. And it’s interesting to know what we’ve got in common.

 

My dream would probably be to get somebody from China, on. And then just do something really crude and ham-fisted and played “Turning Japanese” by the Vapors as their intro music, you know, something like that, or whatever. But no. I find these conversations quite interesting. But thank you very much Glenn the Chinaman. I do appreciate it.

 

Johnster has donated 10 pound and said:

 

“Let’s get the ball rolling!”

 

Well plenty of people got there before you Johnster. But I appreciate it all the same though it’s very kind of you.

 

Evil Sunglasses donated five pounds. He’s in there again Evil Sunglasses and that’s very generous indeed. And he said:

 

“Enjoying the stream.”

 

And he said:

 

“Could Idris tell us a bit about the relationship between Syria and Iran? Is that relationship critical for Assad?”

 

Arab SN: I think. Well I think it is critical for him. I think that Iran has saved Syria. Not by itself, you know, in collaboration with Hezbollah and the actual Syrian Arab Army. It’s a crucial relationship, and Assad has known it. Anybody who believes that ISIS was defeated by the Americans, is a fantasist ISIS! ISIS was defeated by the Iranians.

 

Ayatollah: And Lieutenant General Solomani [sp] had a fair hand in that as well in, … Which was the city? Tikrit, as well I think.

 

Arab SN: Yeah. And so Assad knows that that Iran has been crucial. And they do have a privileged place in Syria’s foreign affairs. Not that Syria has many choices. In terrible isolation. What I’m happy to see is that Arab regimes of the degenerate sorts, of the Gulf monarchies, etc., have been reaching out to Assad, because they have accepted, and they have internalized that he has won!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Syria has won! The Bath Party has won! Arabism has won! And Syria exists! And so we had the spectacle of this chimpanzee UAE Foreign Minister visiting visiting Damascus! Smiling like a German shepherd! He’s a ridiculous person!

 

But they’ve gone from actively funding the resistance, Assad and the Bath Party, sniveling in Damascus. And I’m very happy to see that. So yeah, I think that Assad’s options are broadening as people internalize that Syria has survived this.

 

But the relationship between Syria and Iran is special. And I hope it remains special. And I hope that when the big reconstruction contracts come, that they do go to Iranian companies, because they deserve it and they’ve earned it.

 

Ayatollah: The thing that’s, something that caught me out was, … Because I don’t know a lot about the Syrian civil war. It was quite a complicated thing. And I’m sure there was an awful lot of foreign meddling to make it happen.

 

Not least because, … And this is the example I’m going to cite. You look at somebody like, and she’s one person, you look at Syrian Girl. She’s actually a Sunni. Now Syria, I believe is sort of 85 percent Sunni and it’s largely run by Alawites, who to harder line Sunnis wouldn’t even really be considered Muslims in the true sense. You’ve then got a certain Christian contingent. You’ve got small amounts of possibly Druzes, although I think they’re more in Lebanon and Israel. And your Maronite Christians and Melkites and whatever else. And so on.

 

I don’t know about your sort of sect background, and you may not want to divulge that, because of OpSec, whatever. But I think that’s the first thing that sort of jars you, because when you sort of get the Western White Helmets line. And all of this sort of stuff. It’s like that it’s a big sectarian thing. And all the Sunnis can’t stand Assad. And basically his biggest cheerleader notably in sort of a Syrian cheerleader in kind of world media, is a Sunni herself.

 

[122:07]

 

Arab SN: Yeah.

 

Ayatollah: And people who do know a bit more about Syria would tell you that, yeah, you do have sort of different sects and different religions wholesale, and different ethnic groups as well. Kurds in the north, and whatever. And there were certainly tensions there, both in Bashar all-Assad’s time and Hafez all-Assad’s time. His father. But it broadly, as it goes, worked. And there was obviously outside meddling to bring about the situation. Why? Well again because, you know, …

 

Arab SN: How did it work, Tolla?

 

Ayatollah: Well, there’s a certain model of state. And I suppose it’s a certain form of, not that I’d know a lot about it. But it’s a certain form of basically Arabism.

 

Arab SN: Yes. Exactly! The answer is Arab nationalism.

 

Ayatollah: Which is probably why the greatest tension is actually an ethnic tension with the Kurds in the north.

 

Arab SN: Yes. Precisely. So you’ll find that Arab nationalism in its intellectual origins, is roughly half and half, Christian and Muslim. Although the Christians were more prominent, and more eminent.

 

Ayatollah: Tara Kazee [sp] would be an example in the government in Iraq.

 

Arab SN: Yeah.

 

Ayatollah: Because that wasn’t his birth name. He’s a Christian. But yeah.

 

Arab SN: And it might have been strategic thinking on the part of Christians. But in any case it worked, to say look Iraq, and Syria, and Lebanon, and Jordan, and Palestine, they can only be cohesive. And they can work only if we think racially! These people will always think religiously, to one extent, or another. And that’s fine.

 

Ayatollah: You need to be accommodated, yeah.

 

Arab SN: Yes. You need to be able to do that. But they put Arabism first. And it worked!

 

Ayatollah: Which is why I had to be stopped. A little bit like something that happened in Europe between the wars.

 

Arab SN: And I’d add the attack on Arab nationalism, and the obsession with its destruction, is not just, or not simply, because Arab nationalism is dangerous by itself. Rather, I believe, any robust and potentially successful nationalist movement anywhere in the world has to be destroyed! Because it is inspirational to other nationalist movements elsewhere!

 

And we, as a human race, we are being hammered by the regime into accepting that the only model, the only way, is neoliberal capitalism. That’s the only option that’s available to you! And it’s the only thing that will bring you peace and wherever you find anywhere in the world a nationalist movement, if it succeeds, it will always inspire foreigners! That’s why Arab nationalism exists! It wouldn’t exist really without the example of Europe. Without Europeans saying:

 

“Hey! Look what we’ve done! We’ve made this, …”

 

[125:20]

 

Ayatollah: It’s an inherently sort of modern status thing, of course, isn’t it? To get to that stage of well, you know, Arab identity comes before everything else. Because, as you say, when you think of the extended kinship and sort of clan structure of a lot of particularly the more sort of rural and agrarian Arab society, and the way things will work there, you think of Western Iraq and further reaches of Eastern Syria. And a lot of other places. It’s like, well nationalism is not the most natural fit, but done in the right way it can work, if it functions effectively. And you can get by.

 

And the same was true of Europe. At one time Germany, at one time, with 300 different sort of city states and whatever else. And the Holy Roman Empire and whatever.

 

Arab SN: But the key in international affairs always is to make people-driven nationalist movements fail, because their success reverberates beyond their borders. And that is the case whether the nationalist movement in question is a Right-wing one, or a Left-wing one.

 

Latin America has been ravaged by the United States, because if Latin America were able to produce a social nationalist government that was helping it’s people, it would be an embarrassment! I mean, …

 

Ayatollah: Bear in mind all of them, except the Brazilians, speak Spanish, as well.

 

Arab SN: Yes. It would be an embarrassment to the American order which is jewish, and multicultural. Because these things always reverberate beyond their borders. And that is danger for the elite. People forget that the Constitution of the United States, for example, reverberates in the Constitution of many Latin American countries! They were copy-pasting parts of the American constitution into their own.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: You know, this happens. We had Brown Shirts in Germany, Black Shirts in the UK, the Phalanges in Spain, the Fascists in Italy. And, as surely as the sun rises, similar movements in Iraq and Syria, very soon after.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: It spreads. And the reason that all of this has to be destroyed, is precisely because it is contagious.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Oh, yeah.

 

What else did we have? Ian Holloway’s donated 14 pounds. Thank you very much! Nice football reference as well Ian Holloway. I do appreciate that. I’ll have to work on my Ian Holloway impression I’ll have to go back and look at some of the things he said. But I can’t do it very well at the top of my head:

 

“I was, that was a badger at the start of mating season?”

 

Sorry! Just a bit of low brow football stuff for anyone who’s in all that sort of business. But he’s donated 14 pounds, Ian Holloway. And he said:

 

“I think at some point this spiritual struggle will traverse race. But not for a while. Excellent stream. Thanks.”

 

I think there are degrees of it, doing that, in the sense that there’s always the potential for alliances with people with common interests and where there’s no sort of particular immediate animosities, or conflicts of interest. And you do see that, particularly when the victimizer is as, all-powerful might be, going a bit too far, but as grotesquely powerful, and as malevolent as it is.

 

I don’t know what you would add on that?

 

Arab SN: In terms of alliances I just add I know that there are people that are suspicious of me, and suspicious of the idea of White people finding common cause with non-Whites in their struggle.

 

Maybe those people who are of the Crusader mindset, you might get your way, down the line, and eventually maybe there will be a massive reckoning between Islam and the West. I don’t know. But it’s not for us.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: It’s not for this generation. I think the job of this generation is to preserve the nation.

 

Ayatollah: Christendom and sort of Darwil Islam, if you were going to call it that, literally could not fight each other on their own terms, for their own interest, if they wanted to at the moment, anyway.

 

Arab SN: No.

 

Ayatollah: Certainly Christendom couldn’t, because look at it!

 

Arab SN: And yes, it’s a question for your descendants. And mine, ours. Our job is to solve the problems we can. And to deal with the issues that are in front of us. And we know what those issues are.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: It’s war. And the people that cause it.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Also Johnster is in there with five pounds. And well, I appreciate that Johnster. Thank you very much. And he said:

 

“Since his parents divorced, my half Pakistani slash English mate, identifies totally with his father’s British Muslim community. And his two mixed-race sisters are married to Englishmen and identify with English culture. Point being yes, this is gender-based.”

 

Yeah as I discussed, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

 

[130:24]

 

Arab SN: I think you’ll definitely see a trend, in any household I suppose, the father’s political, or national positions, will prevail in the house. I think that’s generally the case.

 

My mother, you know, she never had religion, neither did her parents. She’s a sort of a child of the 60s and 70s, I suppose, and part of the new experiment. And so she didn’t have a solid world view, as many British people don’t.

 

My dad did. When he came she wasn’t too bothered about that being the general theme of the house. And I think that’s, yeah, I think is gender-based. I think it’s male leadership.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

What else do we have? We have Cultura, our Flemish Belgian stalwart, with three US dollars. Good to have you in there again Cultura. And thank you very much. And he said:

 

“Evening. I almost missed it. How would you like to be disposed of when you’re dead?”

 

Well. There’s only one answer to that for myself, which is to be buried at sea in a green Peugeot 405, with the registration plate M478-GFJ!

 

That’s Friday Night Dinner lore, by the way, Idris. Which is basically a road rage incident that happened in Reading. Which features in the intro. It’s the man that says:

 

“Put your fucking mouth shut!”

 

[Chuckling] Bored you to death a couple weeks ago! I forget the conversations we had in certain elements.

 

But what about yourself? How would you like to be disposed of?

 

Arab SN: I think firing squad! And then a modest Islamic funeral, would be fine.

 

Ayatollah: Sorry [chuckling] just mad things are happening tonight. And I’ve got to preface this by saying, first of all there’s going to be a monumental refund in order, because something mad happened earlier, and it’s happened again. And I think somebody has not realized they donated with absolutely outrageous generosity earlier. We will correct that.

 

But while I do, regarding this person I think. You probably all know it was going to be. But we’ve talked a little bit about different countries in the sort of broader the broader Arab world. One we’ve not talked about too much is Egypt. But I’ve got something which is tangentially related to Egypt to tell you now, about a very generous backer of these streams.

 

Because back in March of this year, the remaining person that’s shown up in Entropy tonight, booked a two-week lads holiday in the Egyptian resort Sharm el Sheikh, for seven of his best mates. They didn’t realize until they’d arrived that the actual primary purpose of their trip as he explained very resolutely, was actually to plan and execute a cross-border operation in the northern fringes of the zionist occupied Makarb [sp] Desert, to disrupt the photo shoot for an IDF Girls Calendar. Which was going to be marketed to boomers in America as they do.

 

The lads were a bit taken aback at first. They thought they were going to be sat by the pool and whatever. But they had their appetites whetted when they were each handed a caliper before setting off on the job.

 

It was then explained to them that once the photo shoot party had been surrounded and taken hostages, the calipers would be used to identify the models who were actually gentile girls trafficked in from Eastern Europe, so that they can be rescued and flown home.

 

I will I’ll leave you all to speculate as to what the calipers were used to measure!

 

Anyway that method of identification proved to be a complete success. Because it left just two thin lipped rotters with botched rhinoplasty, and a photography enlightened crew of sweaty Harvey Weinstein archetypes to be driven across the border into Egypt. Where I’m told they continue to be kept in a very salubrious building in which all episodes of the Friday Night Dinner are played back-to-back on repeat, at 120 decibels or there abouts, 24 hours a day.!

 

And as if you didn’t envy them enough already for that, wait until I tell you that there’s an Olympic swimming pool, a football pitch, a cinema, and a concert hall, on site!

 

And knowing that Wyatt Gilbert treats his enemies as well as that, it gets a bit easier to understand, only a bit easier, but a bit easier, I suppose, to understand why he, at the outset donated 500 dollars tonight! A large sum of which will be a donation on my part that goes somewhere that’s good for our cause.

 

But there’s been a bit of a technical error, because it’s happened again. Because in the first instance [chuckling], he has said:

 

“Salamu alaykum, respect to the guests.”

 

By the way, he says that every week, Idris. That’s not just for your benefit! I have all sorts of theories about this man’s origins. I think he’s actually an Egyptian national, … Well, born in America to Egyptian parents, and his name is Willie Gillal. And he bought into the American dream and joined the CIA, and then saw it for what it was, and became a rogue agent meddling around in like Kunar province, causing mischief and whatever.

 

But he’s accidentally donated the same again later on, and said:

 

“Sorry, a bit late. Great guest.”

 

So I’ll be having a word with Entropy Wyatt. But I really don’t know what to say in the most generous way possible. You do make it difficult for me. So we’ll settle that one up mate. Because even from you, I’m fairly sure that is a very costly technical area. But one which we will correct, be sure.

 

[135:48]

 

Right what was I gonna say now. I think we’ve covered everything on Entropy for now. And I would really urge anybody. And this is something I’ll never ask for anyway. But I would really urge, please do not donate any more money. Please don’t! I don’t think anyone’s thinking that way anyway knowing what they know now!

 

So let’s just settle that there. What we can do whilst, because we’ve been going a good while, so I’m mindful of how you are for time Idris.

 

Arab SN: It’s flown, isn’t it?

 

Ayatollah: It has, yeah. And I knew this would happen, as well. I think we’ve dealt with both of those. And I think we’ve kind of covered the next thing I’ve got on my list, in the last thing we discussed, which is obviously, your nom de guerre is Arab Social Nationalism. As you go by that as your name, why do you sort of, I suppose, … And this is what I’ve got in my notes. What’s the basis for your view?

 

And I think it’s one that a lot of the chat would share, that means of organizing power. And so on and so forth. And that’s the founding ideology and then the political implementation thereof. It is a blueprint that’s suitable for basically, not necessarily all peoples. But, well maybe it is. I don’t know. You tell us.

 

Arab SN: I don’t know if Social Nationalism, or the other kind of nationalism are applicable to all people. But I think in this dichotomy that we’re in, if you’re a normie selecting a political framework, and an ideology, that is, at a basic level, practically helpful for you, is difficult.

 

So in our case, in the United Kingdom, your options are dreadful! You have the Tories who think that it is an object of patriotism to de-industrialize the country, to move strategic industries abroad, often to hostile countries, and to wholeheartedly embrace the so-called “Austrian school”. Which is, of course, as Austrian, as I am an Eskimo. [Tollah chuckles] So you have that option.

 

And then sort of attached to that, if you want to be a nationalist, what you have available to you is the Counter Jihad movement.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: On the Left, if you believe in the worker, the working class, the folk, all you have available to you at the moment in this country is the Labour Party. And we understand what that means.

 

Ayatollah: Oh yeah.

 

Arab SN: If I were to recommend Social Nationalism, or the other sort, to anybody it would be, because it strikes the perfect balance for the ordinary people. It enshrines your nationhood as legitimate and as central to the affairs of the state. It enshrines the economic status of the worker, and the rights that the worker has. It robustly and firmly, without nationalization necessarily, but it robustly and firmly places the banks and the industrial class at the service of the state, and the folk. Mussolini did this with the banks.

 

You don’t need to slap the elite around very much for them to fall into line. Adolf Hitler’s interactions with the industrial class are a good example of this.

 

I simply find it difficult to argue with the premises of socialism, because for me, I simply don’t believe that there is any such thing as nationalism without socialism. And anybody who tells you so is lying! They’re usually a degenerate libertarian who doesn’t believe in society, or the family at all!

 

[140:50]

 

Ayatollah: Without any sense of obligation to your nation. And if that can’t be fostered then actually facing consequences for getting the wrong side of a nationalist state, that will always be broken down because. There will always be incentives, you know. There will always be incentives to be venal, and whatever. And for the mercantile, to do that.

 

Arab SN: To do what? Sorry.

 

Ayatollah: Well basically to just sort of betray national interest. There will always be, you’re up against self-interest and mercantilism if they’re not brought into check.

 

Arab SN: Yes. This venal person is only at liberty to do what they do as long as they’re allowed to do it.

 

Ayatollah: Yes.

 

Arab SN: The moment that you tell a bank, or the banking sector clearly, that money is not a commodity in and of itself, and we will not allow money to be made a commodity in and of itself. And the proper position of banking and finance is to buttress industry. If you fail to abide by those principles, we will burn you to the ground!

 

Mussolini was clear! Hitler was clear! And it worked. These people will control their venal, disgusting, attitudes, if they know that there are consequences looming towards them with the certainty of prostate cancer!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. The same as the way the laws function to stop people, I don’t know, whatever it might be, driving at 90 miles an hour through a town, or whatever.

 

Arab SN: The reality is that we live in rogue states. We live in rogue states where the folk, the normal people, have no recourse to bring the banking class, or the political class, into line! We don’t have it anymore. There were regimes established in the 30s and around that time that we’re able to do it. We can’t! But we could!

 

Ayatollah: Well, while we’re on the subject of ideology, Beer Hall Pooch, good friend of both of us, has got a question on Entropy. He said:

 

“Idris. Why do you think the monied and landed should still be preserved. The Strasseries called for them to be cleared out. A certain uncle of ours disagreed and suffered many problems from them in assassination attempts.”

 

Arab SN: Is this Beer Hall Pooch?

 

Ayatollah: It is yes, of course.

 

Arab SN: Well, I think that my understanding of National Socialism as it developed in Germany, was that Adolf Hitler, and others around him, believed in the principle of aristocracy and nobility, as long as it worked. Adolf Hitler died with a portrait of Frederick the Great in the bunker with him. Adolf Hitler always had respect for the Hohenzollen dynasty, and he always said. So the Nazi party attracted, sorry, not the Nazi party, the NSDAP, …

 

Ayatollah: Remnants of that condition, …

 

Arab SN: I never, actually, I never do that. But the NSDAP did attract the German aristocracy. And in the UK, we know that, because all of Prince Philip’s sisters were married to SS officers. And that’s [chuckling] why Prince Philip was a rather difficult character, because he was German aristocracy. And all of his family were National Socialists.

 

And I think that’s, because in the Hitler wing of National Socialism there was a place for aristocracy and nobility. And indeed they were attempting to build a new one. Especially Himmler through the SS and stuff.

 

So there was to Hitler, I think, a definite view that a society needs an elite. Strasser, being more to the Left, and Beer Hall Pooch, being a devotee, would rather have gotten rid of the aristocracy altogether, because it was decrepit, or useless, or wasn’t working optimally. I think if you’re in a society where your aristocracy is decrepit and not working – the UK is one, …

 

[145:20]

 

Ayatollah: And has been for a fucking good while!

 

Arab SN: I think. So and then we may have to have some very serious conversations about the aristocracy and it’s future. I think at the time of the development of National Socialism you would have been able to argue much more robustly in favour of the German aristocracy. Because Hindenburg was part of that and Adolf Hitler was extravagant in his deference to Hindenburg, while Hindenburg was alive.

 

If you have aristocrats, and a traditional aristocracy, that are worth deference, then you should defer to them. But if they’re not, then you should throw them away! And I think the United Kingdom would have benefited much more from Strasser than the Third Reich did. I don’t know if that answers Beer Hall Pooch. But I know what he’s referring to, because we had this conversation in Spoons when [chuckling], …

 

Ayatollah: Among many other [chuckling] conversations. But none about Peep Show! So next time.

 

Steve Squire CD Soho Shop has got another couple on Entropy. And he said:

 

“The hideous four by two Gene Simmons (for those who don’t know that’s the bassist and the vocalist from KISS) is calling unvaxed people ‘the enemy’.”

 

Well the latest in a long line of these, you know, I don’t know what, well shit munchers to just buy into this hysteria. Yeah that just occurred to me! I’ve been using that loads this past year and a half. And yeah, I mean, Peep Show. It’s from Peep Show. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s perfect! It’s perfect for The Times in which we find ourselves, yeah. And it’s used more widely than I thought, as well. I’ve done over urban dictionary. So urban dictionary research, … What was that?

 

Arab SN: I’d only heard it on Peep Show.

 

Ayatollah: Well I’d only heard it on Peep Show. If you go on urban dictionary, there are a lot of very good definitions of it, actually. Not dissident Right definitions, but ones that aren’t that different.

 

Steve Squire’s CD Soho Shop asked another one and he said:

 

“What do you think of Mountain’s cover of Serve Somebody?”

 

Now this is a very Soprano centric question. Because, first of all Serve Somebody was a song done by Bob Dylan. Okay, obviously Robert Allen Zimmerman, when he sort of went through his sort of born-Again Christian phase. That was used in a Sopranos episode in Season Two. Mountain are not that well known sort of American band from the late 60s, early 70s.

 

I think that David Chase is a big fan of song of theirs features in an episode from Season Four, and they feature, … The young Tony Soprano listens to him in the Many Saints of Newark. I’m not sure if that cover features in the Many Saints of Newark, so I may have heard it. I have a feeling I may have heard a cover of Serve Somebody, recently, somewhere.

 

So I wish I could give you more definitive answer Steve Squire’s CD Soho Shop, but I’ve opened that on YouTube in my browser tab. So I will listen to it. And I might get back to you on that. You know what? My show notes next week, very, very quickly, I’m going to make a note. Just a moment. What a ridiculous thing to be writing!:

 

“Let Steve Squire’s CD Soho Shop know what I thought of Mountains cover of Serve Somebody.”

 

I started streaming on YouTube, and this is where I’ve ended up. But now I appreciate that Steve Squire’s CD Soho Shop. I’ll have a listen to it mate. Thank you.

 

What else do we have on the list? There’s other stuff from YouTube which is interesting. But I doubt we’re going to get through all of it. We’ll come to some of that in a minute. JR Harley had a good question earlier on:

 

“Is copping off with Blanca from the Sopranos, race mixing?”

 

Yes it is. But she wasn’t bad. You ever found Sopranos, Idris?

 

Arab SN: I’ve never seen it.

 

Ayatollah: Right. Okay. Well, we’ve got Peep Show, anyway. We’d never get anything productive talked about if there were anything else to be on that, to be honest.

 

A few questions actually from Orthodoxy Proxy again. And yeah, hang on. Yeah, so what have we got? Yeah he’s asked your views on the plight of, I think he means the Assyrian Christians, as opposed. Well, there are obviously Syrian Christians, who I think are mostly sort of Maronites and Melkites. There are then presumably I would think Assyrian Christians in Syria, as well. But he’s asked:

 

“Thoughts on the plight of Syrian, or Assyrian Christians. And just regarding many of the ancient cities in like Nineveh, and so on, having been destroyed. Are the Copts, as well, in Egypt.”

 

Arab SN: Well as regards the Levantine Christians that are described as Syrians, and Chardians, and others, I hope that their plight is over. That Islamic State has been more, or less, defeated. They are part of the region. And there’s no debate about it. They’re semitic people. They belong where they are. And their contributions to Arab civilization are beyond discussion, any discussion!

 

And so I hope that this invasion of foreign Islamists into the cultural centre of the Arab world is over, and with it the danger posed to those Christians. As we go forward I’m sure that there’s going to be communal trust building, that’s going to have to take place between different sects.

 

But I’m certain, as well, that those discussions can only take place under the umbrella of Arab nationalism. And I think that’s how they will take place. Yeah, go on.

 

[151:49]

 

Ayatollah: No, I was just going to say it’s notable. And I don’t know a lot of the detail on this. But obviously the atrocities perpetrated against the Assyrian Christians, and also groups like the Yazidis, by Islamic State, are well documented. Around the time of 2014 and thereabouts.

 

However, less well understood is the fact that the plight of the Assyrians, well obviously in Iraq, because it pertains to the Iraq war. But the plight of Assyrians, and the way they were treated in Iraq, got a lot worse after the Iraq war. But there was a lot of hostility to them, because as Christians they were seen as sort of synonymous to a degree with the Americans.

 

Arab SN: Well, one of the terrible things about the 2003 invasion of Iraq was that. Well actually, it’s one of the terrible things about the Saddam Hussein regime. He oppressed the Shiite community in Iraq very severely. But he drew the Christians very close to him.

 

And you see a similar pattern Lebanon. Christians are very able to make common cause with the Sunnies. And the Sunnies are generally Arab nationalists. And that’s all to the good. I wonder if this situation that you’re talking about in Iraq is a function of the extent to which Iraqi Christians were associated with the Bath Party regime.

 

Ayatollah: Right, yeah.

 

Arab SN: And Shiite vengefulness. Because one of the tragedies of what’s been done to Iraq is that with the defeat of Saddam Hussein, and the Bath Party there, it has made the Shiites of Iraq who are all Arabs, it’s made them anti-Arab nationalists. Because they are socially they associate Arab nationalism with Saddam Hussein.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Which they shouldn’t. But I understand perfectly why they do. So I think in the whole region, not just in Iraq, but in Syria too, there’s going to have to be a sort of truth and reconciliation process. And a kind of communal rebuilding. But I’m hopeful that they can do it.

 

Because as much as these people, as much as they can make a song and a dance about how Sunni they are, how Shiite they are, how Maronite they are, how Melchite [sp] they are, how Greek orthodox they are, they are semites, all! And Arabic by language.

 

And if they have another language, it’s a very similar language to Arabic, as well. And so I’m hopeful that under the framework of unified Arab nationalism, we can restore Christianity in that region. Not least, because Christians have always been a key part of the Arab nationalist movement. And they’re going to have to remain so. It’s their right. And any sober Arab nationalist who is a Muslim, accepts that.

 

[155:33]

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Where did we get to now. I’m just trying to have a look through questions we had. This is a good one on the sort of the broader thing I suppose of, yeah, well, I suppose it is. Culture asked. He said he picked up on the stream late and he asked:

 

“Which Middle East nationals who live in the West could be our allies according to Idris?”

 

Arab SN: Well thinking of Arab communities in Europe, I think the situation in France is rather beyond saving, with the French government as it stands. You have to remember the migration experience for certain Arab people is very peculiar.

 

So you are welcomed into a country as a migrant by the normies. And then they make you bear witness to the bombing of your homeland, and question whether you might be a wrongin, if you object to that bombing. And it’s a very peculiar situation to be in. It’s very peculiar for an Iraqi who’s lived in the UK for 20 years to watch the UK in Iraq, …

 

Ayatollah: Watch the war drums being beaten to sort of manipulate people into consent.

 

Arab SN: It’s really, it’s quite peculiar, is putting it lightly. But it’s traumatic!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And nevertheless, I think that we can all understand why these things happen, and who is responsible. I believe that any sober Arab person living in the West, is an Arab nationalist. I think it runs deep. And I think if Arab people in the West were to observe a different posture of Western countries to the Arab world, then we might be able to have some very exciting conversations about how we move forward together in our mutual interests.

 

I’d say it’s important to consider that, because in most Arab countries there’s no free speech. And there’s no way of being political opposition, you have a lot of communities and civil society people, in exile, often in London and Paris.

 

And so over the years, over the decades, London and Paris have been able to host Arab cultural and political institutions in exile, sort of and if things were to improve in the homeland then those people could go back. And I choose to be optimistic and believe that’s possible. Yeah, I think there’s a lot of fertile ground among Arab people in the West.

 

Ayatollah: Fertile ground both for, I suppose, for the Arab peoples and it applies to Europeans, fertile ground is always the threat.

 

Because I can tell you now that the powers that be, are not, there are not elements within the regime which are lobbying for like restrictions on something like Patriotic Alternative, because they’re afraid of what it is now, or that they are particularly afraid that you would instantly make vast swathes of British people agree with its 20-point plan, and it’s basic principles.

 

But I put it this way a few weeks ago talking about this possibly. I think I was talking about the Dominic Kennedy thing on Patriotic Alternative in The Times. They fear it, because pound-for-pound it’s the most potent of all sort of positions! It’s the one authentic one. And it therefore has the most potential. And what to us is potential, is a grave threat to the present order. That’s what it is.

 

[160:01]

 

Because ultimately our way of viewing the world is the normal way, it’s the normal way as it would manifest itself with the modern apparatus of state in a modern world. And it’s the one that serves. It’s the one that is in harmony with the instincts of the people and that serves their interests. And it would make greater demands of people in terms of their moral standards and how they live their lives.

 

But in other ways you’d be a lot more free, because who feels free under this? People are so repressed and having to police what they say so much in so many settings that they’re not even conscious they’re doing it anymore! You think of what we think of, what workplaces are like these days.

 

So the idea of free speech in a Western democracy is just an absolute fucking nonsense! Because whether it’s through state means, or whether it’s through other means, lobbyists who would get you out of your job.

 

Because it happens in America where you’ve got the First Amendment. Well, you know, it’s bullshit! And it’s funny, you know what? Beer Hall Pooch is big on his terminology. And he’s a big advocate of the use of the term “regime”, as am I. And it’s one that Gearoid Murphy uses. And I’ve talked about before. You’ve seen it used a lot more now. And I think it’s a good development.

 

Because, if you then get a situation where one of us is quoted responding to some sort of media thing about us. We talk in terms of the regime. And they’ve got to publish it. Just plant a seed in a few people’s minds. Thinking of this as a regime. It’s like, well actually that’s a more legitimate way of looking at it, first of all. And then secondly I saw a term used recently, “post-democratic”.

 

Now the thing with that is, if you’re going to be pedantic about what it actually means, I would say that “post-democratic” implies that at one stage the sort of democracy that we had, in its current form, actually served our interest.

 

And. I don’t think that was, …

 

Arab SN: And it implies that there was a time that your vote mattered.

 

Ayatollah: Exactly! Exactly! Now, all of that being said, there may be instances in which it’s a useful term just because the degree to which people have a perception that:

 

“Well things were a bit better once but look at it now.”

 

Because they’ve seen it get worse in their own lifetime. So I wonder about the utility of that term in certain contexts. But certainly “regime”, definitely!

 

But yeah:

 

“I agree:

 

Said [words unclear]:

“Ayatollah, you taken the Terry A Davis pill? Are you running Temple Operating System?”

 

No, I’m not, mate. I had to Google Terry A Davis, as well. So do forgive me. Good to have you back as well. I agree. I don’t know how you got blocked. I think I, probably one of us was trying to mute somebody else by accident. And then what happened is probably the comment moved. And it ended up being one of yours that went. That’s probably what happened, because none of us could figure it out. None of us with the moderator spanner could figure that one out, mate. That’s good to have you back.

 

Beer Hall Pooch said:

 

“Just use “tyranny’.”

 

Yeah. I’ve heard worse shouts than that well. Because it’s a tyranny that manifests itself in very sort of devious and oblique ways as well, as we all know. Like I said, it might not be the State that gets you. It’ll be some sort of privileged lobbyists.

 

Arab SN: Quite like “regime”, as well, because, ….

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: It’s important, especially for ethnic minority people to understand that they are, in the first place, pawns.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And that the so-called government doesn’t really have their interests at heart. That it represents something else. And if White people persist in referring to the system as a “government”, it implies legitimacy.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: We have to accept that intelligent thinking people can’t accept the prevailing regime in the West as legitimate, because it bears no resemblance to the popular will. It bears no resemblance to the popular moral position, I think, on anything.

 

Ayatollah: No. They’ve had to change people’s moral positions over generations with vast amounts of money going into propaganda and education, in order that they align better with what the regime wants. It’s like, were you to debate with the Leftists and say:

 

“Well no, it’s obviously a moral good that we have a permissive attitude towards paraphilias.”

 

They wouldn’t use the term “paraphilias”. But they’d be talking about LGBTQ map this, that, and the other. And you’d say:

 

“Look nobody thought in those terms that you couch it, previously. Your position on that is entirely a construct of the people that rule over you they turn you into something permissive and apathetic and just self-advocating!”

 

And that’s only one example of the way they’ve done it. They’ve done it on your attitudes to family! They’ve done it on your attitudes to ethnic and racial sovereignty! They’ve done it on your attitudes to sexual permissiveness! They’ve done it on your attitudes to sexual dysfunction! They’ve done it on everything! Because they needed to reduce us to this state! You are not something that your ancestors would recognize. You know, we had Remembrance Day this week. And when these people sort of argue about, they sort of rail against:

 

“Oh! We were fighting people like you!”

 

When the nationalist expresses their views on Remembrance Day, in remembrance for the fallen, of the fratricidal, … Well more than fratricidal tragedies those wars, because they’re called World Wars for a reason. But, the bulk of your casualties. Yeah, it’s Europeans! And it’s the European powers through manipulation, or otherwise, basically through manipulation and subversion, or defending themselves, that were key in all of it. But basically these people could never answer the question honestly:

 

“What the hell do you think the people who went over the top in World War One, or fought in World War Two, would think if you showed them London today?”

 

Or even if you showed them a lot of small towns in this country today. And you showed them the an average day in the life of some of their descendants. And the way they lived. And the state of their families.

 

Because demographics are the fundamental thing. Because those are not things that can be reversed without a big upheaval in the lives of a lot of people. A lot of innocent people of all races, by the way.

 

[166:03]

 

But it’s not just that! Look at the state of people’s families! Look at the way people live! Look at the atomization! Look at the way the current generation coming up, or even worse in their sort of social habits, or lack thereof. And the way they lived, than the Millennials were. The Zoomers are much worse in those respects. They’re just much more damaged by the rot! But anyway sorry. I kind of cut across you. Sorry.

 

Arab SN: I can’t remember what I was gonna say. But you’re perfectly right. I mean, one of the difficulties on the Right, well not a difficulty, but something I see is the Right desire, and the healthy desire of people to lionize their war dead. It’s normal and natural you want to do that.

 

But it’s, … Where are we now, it’s the 12th today is it? Yes. So it was the 11th yesterday. For me as an awake person, my views on both of those wars, would be horrifying to a normie!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And the things that I would say to a normie, who was perhaps weeping about their grandfather, or their great-grandfather, I think I would have some quite traumatic things to say to them about the sacrifices of their grandfather, or their great-grandfather, and the meaning of those sacrifices.

 

It’s a really difficult conversation to have. There’s a lot of legitimate feeling. But it’s perhaps a conversation for another time. But one of the key things about PA, the community around PA, and people who think along the lines of PA, you’re dealing intellectually with a different kind of person. You’re dealing with a person who is awake, a person who is able to interrogate historic events in a very robust way. And to give a really frank analysis of the wisdom of these wars, in the past, that we are called upon to commemorate, and to celebrate.

 

Ayatollah: Your point you’re making previously, by the way, I made a point of sort of taking the stream back on YouTube a bit and listening to it as you were speaking, just to find it. And this is the point in which I sort of got a bit carried away and cut across you.

 

You were making a point about the importance of making foreign groups within our societies understand that the government, there’s no relation to the will of the people. I think that was your basic point. That was what prompted me. I don’t know if that helps you recall what you were going to elaborate upon.

 

Arab SN: I’m afraid it doesn’t. Although I would say that ethnic minority people, once they realize that the regime that brought them here, and the regime that has patronized and promoted them while they are here, doesn’t have their interests at heart. And indeed will abandon them as soon as it becomes expedient. One thing that I’ve tried with other ethnic minorities in this country, to bring up, is to say:

 

“What happens to you and to me when White people will take no more? What happens when they have a leader who has the confidence of all White people and who can take drastic measures against us, as avatars of the prior regime?”

 

[170:14]

 

Ayatollah: And that’s the unfortunate thing. Because that’s all of them would be. They’re basically innocent people with their own sort of small scale, fairly innocent motives, which are economic, and whatever. Don’t get me wrong. There are great sways of foreigners who’ve committed atrocious acts against our people, in both the individual sense, and collectively. And those are things that would have to be addressed from that point of view, with those people.

 

But you’re absolutely, … What you say there’s very important, “avatars” of the previous order. And yeah, it’s a horrifying thought. But I’m sorry. Yeah, sorry. I’ve done it again.

 

Arab SN: I hope that it doesn’t get to that. And I hope that we’re able to wake up ethnic minorities too. And to be able to convey to them that this experiment in multiculturalism, and diversity, which is contrary to everything that we know about human behaviour, and about human ways, and folk ways in particular. We know that this experiment is contrary to all of that. And so we ought to set about fixing it before the hammer comes down, so to speak.

 

Because I don’t want anything terrible to happen. And people on either side, whether it’s on the White side, or the non-White side, will get frustrated with me. Because I don’t tend to get very emotional about atrocities. Whether it’s the massacre at the mosques in New Zealand, or grooming gangs.

 

Because for me these atrocities are of the moment. And they have a basis in that they have a larger context which is what I’m more interested in.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And for every atrocity that we’ve seen, on either side, there’ll be more! There’ll be way more! It will go on, and on! And we will be expected to respond emotionally. And in an of the moment way, forever! If we don’t stop this cycle. But it is a cycle. And it has its basis in the fact that White people have lost control of their countries!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: They have lost control! White people are not making decisions in their lands anymore. They’re not making, … God help us! They’re not even making basic decisions in their lands, anymore! But once they start, we can start fixing this.

 

The fact that mass migration is caused primarily by war is, I suppose, a good thing. Because it means if you can stop the war then you can stop the bulk of this migration. But it involves White people taking control of their affairs, which they have ceded, unfortunately, to another ethnic group.

 

Ayatollah: Feckless elites have been doing that for centuries. They’ve been ceding power, yeah.

 

Arab SN: Yeah, sorry go on.

 

Ayatollah: No, I was just saying, feckless elites have been siphoning that power off for centuries. And a part of it is an insufficient degree of racial consciousness in the beginning. And also, but more than that just being venal. Again, being able to be bought off. And so on, going back through the centuries unfortunately.

 

Arab SN: In the Tory regime that exists in the United Kingdom now, they came to power on the back of a parade of lies. One of which was that they would bring migration under control, or even reverse it! Not only have they not done that. But they don’t give a damn about the fact that they haven’t done it! They’re clearly, …

 

Ayatollah: They’ve got a worse record, overall, they’ve got a worse record for immigration levels than Labouir has! Even factoring in the Blair government and Brown.

 

Arab SN: And we know that the Tory politician is a corrupt person! They’ve all got rich over this Corona stuff.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Migration is far from their minds! The ethnic peace of the United Kingdom is far from their minds! The idea that we could create in this country a high trust society have that’s far from their minds! They don’t care about any of it! Any of it! Because White people have lost control!

 

White people are not in a position to set the tone of their countries, anymore! And I don’t know how to proceed with this conversation. Except to say that the Democratic process does not seem to be able to realize the ambitions of White people in this country.

 

[175:21]

 

Ayatollah: Yeah, certainly can’t.

 

There’s a comment that’s been up on the screen for a while from Beer Hall Pooch. Because I think it’s an important one. And it’s a thought that occurred to me actually regarding “regime”, actually during the stream, as we were talking about it. Which is the masses are primed for the term “regime”, because it’s the term that’s being used to demonize problematic foreign governments, the Assad regime, the Saddam Hussein’s evil regime, which actually, yeah in many respects it was in fairness.

 

But it not particularly for the reasons that it was sort of vilified for, other than for sort of expediency by our media and our regime. So yeah, you’re absolutely right Beer Hall Pooch. And it’s not lost to me it occurred to me, as well.

 

Arab SN: I remember basic bitch conservatives in America, they developed the habit of referring to the Obama government as the “Obama regime”.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: I agree. I think it’s useful, especially, because they like to use it to smear foreign governments time So we should, …

 

Ayatollah: And imply tyranny and illegitimacy.

 

Arab SN: Yes.

 

Ayatollah: Which is what we have! Which is what we’ve had for a bloody long time!

 

Arab SN: No intelligent thinking person could look at the British government, the American government, or the French government, and use the word “legitimate”, or “legitimacy” to describe these frameworks.

 

Ayatollah: The biggest giveaway on this. And I’ve said this for so I’ve said this so long. The biggest sort of rhetorical mask and lexical masks that they have, is the kevetch about populism! You know, I don’t know. If there’s ever been an op-ed, or whatever, in which they’ve said:

 

“Populism is a threat to our democracy!”

 

But it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. But it would be sort of the absolute zenith of Orwellian language. But yeah. I mean, the way they kevetch about populism, and the popular will, tells you everything about the nature of all facets of the regime. The actual, you know, executive and political apparatus of it. The commentariat, because again that’s where you’ll see it a lot.

 

You’ll see it in the media and fucking Guardian op-eds and whatever! The outcry about populism particularly since 2015, 2016. The run-up to like the Brexit referendum, the US presidential election. And so on and so forth.

 

Arab SN: The complaint about populism really is a complaint about the working class.

 

Ayatollah: Oh yeah! Non-compliant White people.

 

Arab SN: Yeah, the word “populist” is new. And you can just discard it! What they’re talking about is the “folk”.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah!

 

Arab SN: That’s all they’re talking about. Whereas in our political outlook the folk is the centre. And the folk leads. And it should lead, in service of national health. They want the folk to be silenced and destroyed. They call it populist today. They may call it in the future something else, they’ll find other words.

 

But it’s the folk that they’re after. It’s the authentic national group, it’s the people of the nation and their traditions that they’re after. They say “oh, it’s populist”. Although I’m not sure to what extent they’ve been able to adequately explain why populism is bad.

 

Ayatollah: They haven’t! The midwits in the commentary don’t do it. Because they just take it as a given. And this again is one of the consequences of, … I’ve talked about this before.

 

I mean, there was a fellow, I think he presented the today programme on Radio Four. But he basically wrote a book when he retired, a memoir. I remember we talked about it on the TASOB podcast toward the end of 2019. And I had a bit of a sort of a response to it, because in his book he acknowledged that like the BBC is just full of European Union loving urbanites who were just totally detached from vast ways of the country.

 

And I made the point that one of the problems you will run into as a regime which relies upon, which is just utterly at odds with truth and natural order, and has to for it’s true believers, call upon people that are sort of upper middle in intelligence, compliant in nature, aspirational, venal and petty in their aspirations, getting through the university system and make true believers of them in this deracinated, permissive, urbanite globalist world view!

 

That’s just it, they’re true believers. And they’re only associating with themselves, because ultimately their arguments would lose horrendously if, what would you call it, a more collegiate spectrum of opinion be allowed. So what happens is you get a media which ends up in some respects not being, … Some elements of it aren’t fit for purpose. The Brexit stuff is a good example. The way they go on about populism is though:

 

“Well, it’s just self-evident that it’s a bad thing.”

 

Is an example. I mean, that’s an example of their sneering contempt for the folk, as you say.

 

But it’s also just the fact that in certain respects they’re not fit for purpose at times, because, as I said, they do become an echo chamber. Because you have to cultivate these absolutely batshit mental true believers, who just believe things that are utterly ridiculous!

 

And that they don’t engage in dialogue with the enemy, because they have to be protected from that with deplatforming and whatever else. Because they just lose out, to basic fundamental common sense, and sound instinct! And that’s what you get!

 

[180:53]

 

Arab SN: Yes. And it’s my experience as well. Because, as I said earlier, my economic views are of the Left. And yet even though I could earn applause from a Leftist audience talking about my views of trade unions and other things.

 

If I were to discuss other matters of equal importance, but perhaps cultural, and ethnic, historical, there is no way I would be able to have an argument with anybody, because arguments cannot happen! What happens is they malfunction. They shut down! They exclude you! They expel you from the group you’re in! They do it before you’ve completed the sentence.

 

So even if you’re on your way to defending the White working class somebody will intervene and say:

 

“Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Hang on! What are you saying?”

 

Ayatollah: Oh yeah!

 

Arab SN: They’re conditioned [chuckling] to intervene even before the sin has been named! I mean, one thing that makes me hopeful is that a lot of people who have set the tone for the West and who have been in charge of things, they’ve had certain views. But I’m not certain at all. I’m talking about boomers, you know, boomers and the Israel worshipers, and the capitalists fetishists, etc., I’m not sure at all, how convincing their views are to young people. Even really young people! Even somebody who is say 16 years old.

 

I don’t know what inroads you can make with judeo-capitalism, judeo-Bolshevism, and war, with these people?

 

Ayatollah: I think it’s harder. Because the deal these people are getting – if they’ve got any sort of inclination to take a look at the world around them – the deal these people are getting is worse for them! What their material conditions are going to be like. Lots of stupid little comforts and trinkets, but any sort of fulfillment? No. They got friends? Probably not. They probably haven’t got a sex life, they’ve got OnlyFans.

 

Arab SN: Yeah. That makes me hopeful! I mean, yeah, not the sad situation that they’re in. I mean, one thing I’ve noticed on the so-called far-Right is you have certain people who are very queasy about historical revisionism in relation to certain events, and pattern recognition in relation to a certain ethnic group.

 

But those people, I tend to find, have their roots in the Republican Party in America. The Republican Party of a certain time. The Republican Party of a certain success, let’s say, under Reagan. And they cling to that feeling.

 

But my sense, and I hope I’m right, is that this cannot wash with young people today. And I think young people, they all belong to National Socialism. I think you can do it. I don’t know if you’d agree, or if you think I’m just a fantasist.

 

But I think that this, the system, is so decrepit, and so disgusting, on its face! And that the events that have been fetishized over the last 70 years are far enough away in the past for people of our mindset to have a fresh and influential influence on young people. Something new.

 

[185:18]

 

Ayatollah: I really wonder, because I wonder about the degree to which actually just the way of living for the generations sort of coming of age now, is so destructive! And I say this having known a few of them, you know, people in their early to mid 20s now. And then it’ll be worse for people younger, probably.

 

So destructive to large sways of them, that are they ever going to have any sort of political consciousness beyond what is given to them on social media? Because, you know, their dopamine receptors are fried. A lot of them will have sexual dysfunctions because, you know, sex was sort of degenerate. It was true of our generation relative to the parents generations. It’s certainly going to be true of this generation. It’s less of a participative thing. It’s almost become like the way sport because, you know, went from being a participative thing to a spectator sport. That sounds like I’m being bawdy. I’m not.

 

Again you look at the proliferation of pornography. We know who’s behind that. You look at your OnlyFans, and whatever. The phenomenon where there’s no sort of moral deterrent for girls to doing that sort of thing.

 

Like, what was I going to say now? I just wonder about the degree to which that enervates people, and just makes absolute wrecks of them? I don’t know, because I see a lot of it. And the dependency on SSRIs, and the atomization.

 

I mean, talking about the sort of the pornography thing. I remember hearing a story from a listener. He worked with a young girl about 19 years old. And she’d gone through a 30 gig data allowance in a month. And she said well most of it was watching pornography! A woman! A young woman.

 

So I don’t know. I mean, that’s an anecdotal example. But I think, will there be a steadily growing cohort of people who are so disillusioned with their lot, and what they are offered by the present order, that maybe you can sort of look around them with sufficient indignation and say:

 

“Have a look around you and pay a bit more attention.”

 

And then come back and tell me, you know, do sort of forget the worst horror stories of sort of past political systems, let’s say, which I can categorically tell you in certain instances were bullshit! And then look at other aspects of it. And the truth of it. And tell me, does that look worse than what you see around you now you live amidst, the fucking ruins?

 

And I’m reminded of this all the time, you know, working environment, the things I overhear about people in their lives. God almighty! But yes, sorry. Go ahead.

 

Arab SN: On the positive side, I think it really matters the fact that National Socialism and similar ideologies are banned from the public consciousness.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: So if you take Adolf Hitler as an example this is an individual who we are asked as Westerners to believe is in many ways central to the history of Western Europe. And we’re asked to believe that he was this important, uniquely evil, and terrible figure, who is central to Western Europe as it is today. And yet all of his speeches are banned from any mainstream media platforms.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Which ought to strike an intelligent person as peculiar. Because these are the primary documents of ultimate evil and madness. And so surely people should be able to review them and be able to laugh at them, and to mock them, and say:

 

“Oh! Look at this crazy person ranting and raving about jews!”

 

Except!

 

Ayatollah: Well, it’s a very quick interjection, Chris Cantwell is very sort of flavour of the month at the moment, because he’s been a pro se defendant in this ridiculous Charlottesville show trial, which doesn’t seem to be going that well for the judocracy. But I heard him make a very interesting point once where he said:

 

“Look, we’re told about the metaphysical evils of the Third Reich well and, how Mein Kampf is the sacred text of it. Why don’t you read it in school?”

 

Why don’t you read any of it in school? If that’s the case.

 

Arab SN: Yes!

 

Ayatollah: If it’s so egregious, well it’s a hard thing to argue against.

 

Arab SN: And so the absence of National Socialism, the National Socialist voice, matters! And it’s absence has meaning. And what it means is that were you to review by yourself the speeches of Adolf Hitler what would probably happen, would be goosebumps hairs going up in the back of your head! You might find yourself saluting in a certain way, because it’s uplifting! It’s positive stuff! It’s not the mental, jew obsessed, caricatures that we’re allowed to believe.

 

And the reason I raise it is that we have all of these problems among young people, social problems. But we don’t have anything we can give them. Because the best thing that we can give them, the most parsimonious, the simplest, the most humane thing, that we can give them in my view is National Socialism, or something similar.

 

But we’re forbidden. And so when people are in the grip of a porn addiction, of a drug addiction, an alcohol addiction, of a social isolation, all the things that are afflicting young people, for me the simplest the most efficient way of helping these people is love, and nationalism! Love, nationalism, and support. All the things that might have been provided by something like the Hitler Youth, for example. Somebody says here:

 

“I think Israel transmitted, …”

 

[191:32]

 

Ayatollah: The was Ramallah, during the Second Intifada. 2002.

 

Arab SN: Yes they did. Over the public networks.

 

Ayatollah: The Second Intifada, it was, yes.

 

Arab SN: Because pornography destroys morale. That’s why it’s ubiquitous. And as well, you know, I’d caution people to thinking that just because you don’t watch porn, that you’re not in a sort of pornified mindset. Because porn has leached into the mainstream culture too. So much of it is pornographic.

 

Ayatollah: It’s like not considering alcohol, or cigarettes drugs.

 

Arab SN: Yes.

 

Ayatollah: In that they are intoxicants. More potent than some controlled substances.

 

Arab SN: Yeah. But then there’s a definite pornographic quality to the mainstream culture. It’s a luxurious fantasy to believe that you’re not subject to porn, just because you don’t watch it.

 

And I think that the careful, meticulous, and detailed exclusion of such ideologies as National Socialism from the public consciousness, means that we don’t have a tool in our repertoire to help people. But I can tell you that when I, say a year and a half, or two, or two years ago, when I started on Twitter, I was lucky enough to be spoken to by a lot of very young Whites, good faith lads, who had embraced National Socialism. And their stories were wonderful! And their stories were positive. That their experience of National Socialism was positive! They didn’t really hate anyone, you know, beyond the obvious suspects.

 

But they were being encouraged to be fulfilled on their own terms, authentically, as members of their people. And the absence of all of this from the political menu that we’re provided with by the elite, is telling.

 

And I think as much as such things as OnlyFans, the ubiquity of porn, and as much as all of those social ills can make you pessimistic and despairing, I choose to believe that they are fixable! That they’re eminently fixable! It just needs the correct ideology and leadership to fix them. But they are fixable!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Somebody has defied my imperative to [chuckling] not send money on Entropy! It’s Johnster again with 20 pounds! I’m thinking of [words unclear]:

 

“Now, that’s aggressive generosity!”

 

But anyway, that’s very kind of your Johnster. It really is mate. And he’s emphasized:

 

“Every one of you absolutely has to oppose the quack scene passport. That means you must oppose the quack scene mandate. I’ve just gone through the process to keep my job. The NHS Act requires you scan your face. It also cross-references passport and DVL databases linking them up for validation purposes.”

 

And that’s validation in single quotation marks. You’re obviously in an industry where the net is tightening then Johnster. By the way, on that, just for the sake of details from somebody who’s gone through it, let me, … I can’t even remember my personal Telegram handle half the time. I’m going to get it now. I hope you’re on Telegram mate. Failing that, you can email me.

 

But I’m going to put those details in the chat on, hang on, probably Entropy. Bloody account settings now. Yeah. So it’s, … A second. Can you tag people in the chat on Entropy? Yes you can. Right. Because I’d like to hear more about that, because it might be something that I could raise. Hold on a second.

 

Because again, you’ve had these sort of injunctions this week, which apparently they put back. Is it care homes? No, care homes they’ve done. But I think was it social care that broadly they were going after? I don’t know.

 

But I appreciate your generosity there Johnster for the second time mate. Oh, I see what you mean when you say you’ve gone through the process. You’ve had to submit to it, right, … Yeah. Well, I’m sorry to hear that. But yeah, you wonder to what degree the net is gonna tighten here, because we know it’s actually a lot worse seems to be in most of most of the rest of Europe now, than it is here. Let alone places like Australia.

 

Arab SN: We Tolla, when we met, we had a discussion about PA and the meaning of PA in the context of that conference and how successful it was. And I remember talking to you about the importance of the vanguard.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And that the people at the front, or the people who can see more clearly than other people, they don’t necessarily need to be terribly numerous. And I think if you harbour ambitions of converting the vast majority of your people to your worldview, then you’re destined to be disappointed.

 

But as long as you are this robust, clear, vanguard, people will come. And I’m very weary, I don’t know what we can call it, “despair porn”, where we review the shortcomings of younger generations and their terrible struggles that they’re dealing with, and addictions, and whatnot. You can view all of that as helpless.

 

But it’s not helpless, as long as this vanguard exists. It exists in the UK in the form of PA, and perhaps other organizations. It exists in America in the form of the NJP. The obsessiveness of censorship, while it hurts us all, I tend to view optimistically, because it helps me know that we are causing problems!

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: So as eloquently as you it enumerated the problems facing young White people, I’d also say that there’s much to be hopeful about.

 

Ayatollah: I hope you’re right. I very much hope you’re right. That will bring us actually on to the last couple of agenda items. How are you doing for time? Because unless these would need to wait for another time, because I’m mindful we’ve been going a long while.

 

Arab SN: I can stay for a roundup.

 

Ayatollah: Okay. Well, what we’ll do now, I think anything from the chat, we’ll have to leave. But there were a couple of other agenda items. The first one was. And I think we did discuss this briefly when we met the other week. You were taken aback by the fervour [chuckling] with which White nationalists rejoiced as basically the ZOG machine was forced into a humiliating withdrawal from Afghanistan after it’s initial sort of military scaling back was followed by a very sort of swift capitulation by the Afghan National Army to the Taliban. Which is a complicated question, because actually one blurs into the other quite a lot.

 

People try and sort of apply a Western understanding of society and how institutions work to a completely different society, which, … Well I don’t know. A lot of sort of purported Afghan national army soldiers didn’t exist. They were there basically to collect money. They were there as a means of sort of fraudulently collecting money. There were a lot of people in there that would have switched sides. And so on.

 

But those complexities don’t really matter, that’s not the point. But you sort of commented I think in passing. And I found it very interesting. I don’t know whether you were taken aback. But had some comment on the zeal with which the White kind of dissident Right reacted to what happened in Afghanistan around about August.

 

[200:45]

 

Arab SN: Yeah, I was surprised at two things I saw coming out of people on the Right. One was their gleeful enjoyment of the collapse of the actual war effort, that the occupation ended and the Americans withdrew. There was that.

 

But also, and it wasn’t always entirely serious. It was tongue-in-cheek, I think. And a lot of time it was jokes. But a lot of talk about how based the Taliban are in this or that way. Which was surprising to me. Because you have to remember that I am old enough to remember the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan, and the pornographic way that they were broadcast on the television.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And the way that people cheered. And these were seen as righteous wars. To see a younger generation rejoice in the failure of the boomers to prevail in Afghanistan was interesting to me. Not only, because it’s obvious for a thinking Westerner. You don’t want to send your sons to die in Afghanistan for reasons that you can’t articulate. And you don’t want to spend a trillion dollars doing it! That should be obvious. And those kinds of celebrations were less surprising to me.

 

But what was more surprising was the sort of sympathy for what I saw as a kind of sympathy for the Taliban [chuckling] when they were [chuckling] getting rid of this George Flyod’s stuff, and rainbow flags! It has meaning! Like how degenerate, and how foreign, …

 

Ayatollah: Shit, they’re trying to do the same thing to them as they’re doing to us, essentially.

 

Arab SN: But how degenerate and how remote from White interests does your regime have to be?

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: For you to speak positively about the Taliban? And I think it spoke to how disgusted young White people, or young Western people, how disgusted they are with their own regime, that there’s something satisfying about watching people like the Taliban, who have no air force, [chuckling] they have nothing!

 

Ayatollah: They’ve got fucking sandals and rocket propelled grenades!

 

Arab SN: They have sandals, RPGs, and the sheer righteousness of knowing that they’re on their own fucking land!

 

Ayatollah: And that’s all they’ve got!

 

Arab SN: And there’s nowhere to go. This is your land, and the Americans are here. And you’ve got to deal with the Americans.

 

Ayatollah: And you’ll leave eventually, just like all the others did, because we made them.

 

Arab SN: And you resist for 20 years your will prevail over theirs! And it did. And I think that perhaps it may not be obvious. But there may be things to learn from the Taliban for White people going forward.

 

Ayatollah: There would be if we weren’t pacifists, I must stress in these parts. But anyway, yeah, I digress.

 

Arab SN: I know.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah, do carry on.

 

Arab SN: You have much to endure over the next say 10, or 20 years. But if you can remain White. And if you can remain righteous in your clear right to these islands, and to Europe, then that’s hard to defeat! The Afghans have shown you. The Palestinians show you every day! The Israelis, they despair, because there’s no number of bombs they can drop. No act of aggression that would persuade the Palestinians. Because, they just cannot be moved.

 

[205:10]

 

Ayatollah: If you can’t just outright wipe these people out, you will never be rid of them!

 

Arab SN: Yes! And so, I was surprised, as you say, by the reaction to the Taliban. But I was also very gratified by it, because it helped me know that there are a number of people in the West who know that these wars are the source of the issue. Source of the migration, the source of Israeli power. The source of degeneracy. The kids know! They clearly know! And so I choose to be positive on that basis.

 

Ayatollah: See you talked about the rejoicing. And I was no exception to this. You won’t have seen this I think you probably weren’t at all aware of me before we met. But this here. This was a stream I did on the 18th of August which I had a bit of fun with. Well, you can see my ex-National Front man Derek Day you sort of my literal avatar, you know, made a bit of an interesting cameo in Kabul. But there we go [chuckling]! I was quite proud of that one.

 

But yeah, this is the thing. And another thing that we’ve talked about, that sort of glee at the humiliation of basically that the Western, neoliberal, zionist order, … It got some mainstream media attention, because there was a Mail Online article that I read through, I think early September maybe. And I forget the author’s name, but she made some, …

 

Arab SN: It wasn’t something like “neo-Nazis and Islamists”?

 

Ayatollah: It was more sympathetic than that. It expressed dismay that young White men feel so alienated that they’re cheering on the Taliban, you know, they’re that disaffected. And it was very interesting. Now what was it? Now, I can’t find it. But I’ve talked through on another stream that I did going back, yes early September, or whenever.

 

Now the thing with this is. And I think this was the analogy I used when we discussed this in person. Was well ultimately imagine like you sort of were born into a family. And in the time before you could remember there was, your parents fell out a bit. But you had two good parents. Then in comes the most vile sadistic tyrannical stepfather! He’s abusive in every conceivable way, whilst accusing you of being aggressive and just basically crying out in pain strikes you.

 

Arab SN: He’s gaslighting you.

 

Ayatollah: Yes gaslighting you exactly. Which is just a feature of life in the West. It’s central to the whole sort of programme of psychological abuse. Imagine you had the most horrendously abusive stepfather. And then you had no means of defending yourself. You just had to suffer. You couldn’t get out, you couldn’t fight back.

 

And then one day you look out the window. And you see some bloke who’s nothing to do with the family whatever, probably wouldn’t have a lot of time for you, but he kicks the shit out of him! And maybe this fella, you know, maybe your stepfather’s this big hulk of a man. And then a little bloke who’s eight stone soaking wet flattens him and kicks the shit out of him! You would rejoice! You would think:

 

“Yeah! Fucking have it you twat!”

 

Because you can’t do anything about it. We are hostages of this regime. And we’ve just seen it. And we’ve seen the extent to which it tries to push the same shit on the people in Afghanistan. And we’ve seen it kicked out!

 

Arab SN: And it’s not dissimilar is it from the point I raised earlier about how Arab nationalism had to be destroyed. Not just because it would interrupt the Israeli agenda for the Middle East. But also because it would be a beacon to foreign nationalists elsewhere too.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: Which is exactly what you see in the victory of the Taliban. That the Taliban, whatever, they call themselves the Taliban. And they are Islamists. But in the end they are Afghans.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And these are Afghan people taking their country back. And it’s a symbol of hope to people who are not Afghan but who can hope to achieve something similar. And so I think the dismay in the establishment and how White people might have been cheering on the Taliban, is similar to their desire to wipe Syria from the earth, because Arab nationalism cannot be tolerated. Folkish politics in any form cannot be tolerated!

 

[210:02]

 

Ayatollah: They want sovereignty.

 

Arab SN: They will always try to destroy it.

 

Ayatollah: National sovereignty, yeah. Because if you’re in charge of your destiny they ain’t!

 

Arab SN: Yes! Wherever the folk is ascendant they will cry foul!

 

Ayatollah: Oh yes!

 

Arab SN: And demand war.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: And so I think that if there’s at a distance solidarity between White people and the Taliban, it’s folkish stuff.

 

Ayatollah: It’s grassroots. I mean, it is the popular will isn’t it? There’s not a lot else to say about it. So once you’ve peeled away the conditioning, when you’ve deprogrammed yourself, this sort of stuff is self-evident. Beer Hall Pooch I’m just going to put this up on screen. And all I’m going to say on this comment that is on screen now is, well look Beer Hall Pooch, if the stories you were telling me after we left the pub and I was giving you a lift back to where you were staying at are true, then maybe there’s some substance to what you’re saying. But I’ll leave that there.

 

Arab SN: Beer Hall Pooch, it has to be said, he lived, I would say in 1923 [chuckling]!

 

Ayatollah: You’ve got the Right moniker then hasn’t he! [Laughter]. But yeah, the point about your sort of what it revealed to you that there was this rejoicing at seeing in any respect really, a very sort of foreign, and very distant people basically bloody in the nose of our victimizers. And what that sort of revealed to you about kind of the, well the dissident Right let’s say. As an overwhelmingly White, you know, native sort of political subculture. If you want to call it that in our societies.

 

Going on from that I suppose the thing I’d be interested to close on. And we did discuss this in person. We sort of alluded to it tonight as well is, you were at the Patriotic Alternative conference a couple weeks ago. I don’t know if that was the first time you’d attended any real-life sort of British nationalist sort of event in Britain.

 

Arab SN: Yeah, it was my first in real life effort at anything in this sphere. Yeah.

 

Ayatollah: And I know a lot of what you’re going to say, because we talked about it in person. But obviously a lot of the people listening won’t. So naturally given you sort of have a different perspective being of a partially Arab background and identifying primarily with for political purposes with your Arab side. I know you discussed this on TASOB. The idea that:

 

“Well look there’s plenty of people that can advocate articulately and eloquently for our worldview on behalf of White people, I felt that my Arab side sort of need it more.”

 

Basically.

 

Arab SN: Yes.

 

Ayatollah: So coming in from that sort of partially outside perspective, I think it’d be very interesting for people to hear your impressions of the conference, and of the day, and of the people. And I suppose of the discourse. Because a lot of interesting things came up. I’ve got one other note on that, but primarily I’d like to just let you talk.

 

Arab SN: So the first thing I’d say, I’ve heard, for example, Charlie Big Potatoes, he’ll make fun of Tommy Robinson and similar people. Because they’re globalist, and they’re globohomo. And they don’t care about race. And they’ll make a big song and dance of embracing ethnic minority people. So Tommy Robinson will always want to be photographed with a black person. He cannot avoid it! That’s instance here, it’s garbage, it’s patronizing! And it’s shite. And I don’t want any of it.

 

What I get from PA people is the sort of clarity that we talked about earlier. These are White nationalists. They’re interested in the long-term survival and health of White people. And I believe that’s their entitlement. And I had a tremendous experience at the PA Conference precisely, because those things were clear. I’m not being patronized either by Mark Collett, or any of the people around him. I’m not being used as some kind of indicator that PA is for multiculturalism, or anything else. But rather, because PA values nationalism even if it prevails among non-Whites.

 

And what I found at the PA Conference was, I was accepted as a colleague. And as a similar-minded person. But I was accepted as I am. And I accepted the White nationalists around me as they are. And that made for a very healthy set of interactions, which you saw. Because we are all, most of you there, were indigenous British, or English people, White nationalists.

 

But we were all able to talk man-to-man about the real issues with mutual respect, but without giving anything. I simply believe it is normal and healthy that White people should be a super majority in the United Kingdom. I don’t even find that interesting, to be honest with you, as an idea. I don’t.

 

And I think I made that clear to every, … Well, I think most people the conference knew who I was before they met me. But this is not the case of sort of patronizing, multicultural, like oh, you know, everybody can be English. It’s not that it’s an intellectual level that you find among PA people, where they are able to accept that White interests are what they are. But they can also seek common cause with other nationalists who respect White Nationalism and their own nationalism too.

 

[217:01]

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Arab SN: I found it to be a really healthy and constructive environment to be in. It was exhilarating! Not least, because I was able to speak to people like Beer Hall Pooch, to you. You were at the same table, talk about our views without worrying, without self-censoring, without worrying who was listening. To be frank you as a White person with me, and me, as a Muslim with you, there’s much to be discussed. And much common ground to be explored.

 

And it’s ironic that a so-called far-Right organization like PA, is in a position to provide that that context.

 

But I say as well, to any of the feds listening, if you’re looking for skinheads, if you’re looking for potential terrorists that you could goad into doing something silly, I’m afraid in PA, you won’t find these people! In PA there are White nationalists whose views are clear, whose views are often absolute. But whose views are respectable. And I think that’s why the establishment hates PA so much.

 

Ayatollah: You see, this is the thing againc to advocate for your own interests, if you’re a person and you’re of a foreign background, a foreign allegiance. But you’ve cast off the anti-White sort of default. And I’ve known sort of Muslims who are anti-zionist. But they’re also anti-White. And aren’t aware of the degree to which they’re in the thrall of sort of an anti-White, …

 

Arab SN: If I can just say clearly, anti-Whitism is a form of zionist! That is all that it is.

 

Ayatollah: Yes!

 

Arab SN: It’s a form of zionism and it serves no interest other than zionist interests.

 

Ayatollah: Yes a manifestation of zionism.

 

Arab SN: It is. And hating White people brings no benefit to any non-White person, other than your fellow Whites. It is zionism, that’s all that it is.

 

Ayatollah: The point on this is basically that again I’ve had interactions with Muslims that have got their sort of opposition to zionism and whatever. But they’re not conscious of the degree to which, just as a lot of White people, you’ve got maybe White Leftists who’ve got some of the right economic ideas. And some of the right views on the sort of Israel Palestine. I don’t know, something like Jeremy Corbyn. But I don’t know about Corbyn given the circles he’s mixed in. And certainly things that have happened to him in the past few years when he fell foul of certain interest groups.

 

But certainly your more rank and file people like that, they’re not aware of the degree to which they’re still being manipulated by basically an anti-White agenda. If you’re the sort of person who has cast that off, and you used a very act term when we were talking, which we’ll get onto, which is “clarity of thought”. But if you’ve had the clarity of thought and the moral courage to cast that sort of thing off. And you’ve had the initiative at the outset to actually get to the stage where you could even start to do that. And then you’ve taken up, alongside the cause of White nationalists, it doesn’t matter if you’re not ancestrally one of us fully.

 

Look, you’re going to be judged on your merits. And to do that when you’ve got other options available to you through other allegiances and when, … Actually everybody faces the same sort of, it takes the same amount of initiative and courage for anybody to get out of doing those things. There are also things for you to gain by continuing to adhere to them if you could identify as non-White.

 

And there are also, how do I put it? Some of the same deterrents, maybe not all of them. But some of the same deterrents and taboos again of sort of speaking up for White interests. To then do that, when you could have done other things, I think it says a lot of the character of the individual. You would be one example. There are other people I know. And it would be remiss not to take the individual on their own merits in that respect. I’ve got a hell of a lot of respect for it!

 

Because we all understand how to do it is and how hard it is to just be pro-White. And again there are other interests, other sort of ethnic, and ethno-religious, interests which are not mutually exclusive from that at all. Because again, we’ve in many instances we have a common victimizer.

 

But there were a lot of things. You talked about the vanguard thing before. And it’s funny, because we talked about this. And I appreciated the point you made. But I sort of counter signaled you a little bit when I said:

 

“Look. I don’t think you’ve got to be any sort of genius to get into this thing. You’ve got to be reasonably intelligent, but nothing special at all. Not necessarily far above average. Your instincts are more important.”

 

But I thought about this again. And I think I made this point when you were watching in the PA Talk stream a couple of nights after the conference. I think it was a Monday, Tuesday night actually, I think after the conference. I made the point of reflection. And many people involved in PA have been around since the British National Party days. I’m certainly not. One of those. But I’ve been around since the earliest Patriotic Alternative events.

 

So it’s a little bit of fish not seeing water. I just take it for what it is, because I’ve never known anything else. Whereas yours was with the perspective of a newcomer, with a sort of a different background. And that sort of carries more weight really. And again you at some point in the same conversation, not that long after, you use the term:

 

“To get to where we are requires a certain clarity of thought.”

 

And it absolutely does! To recognize things as they are, in the first place, it then requires a certain amount of courage to accept them as they are, and formulate your views accordingly. But I thought the comments you made about a vanguard and perceiving it that way, I thought were very interesting, on that day.

 

[223:14]

 

[Remainder of transcript in progress. Please volunteer to do a small part by leaving a comment.]

 

[249:44]

 

 

END

 

[Readers: If you see any errors (however minor), or ways to improve things, in the transcript, please let me know in the Comment section. Also please share the link to this transcript, so others can benefit. Thanks.]

 

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xx UNFINISHED TRANSCRIPTS — Volunteers Needed

 

 

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See Also

 

 

Millennium Woes with Morgoth on Brexit — TRANSCRIPT

Millennial Woes’ Millenniyule 2017 No. 66 – Morgoth — TRANSCRIPT

Morgoth’s Review – YouTube Hangout 01 – Skeptics and Cucks — TRANSCRIPT

Morgoth’s Review – YouTube Hangout 02 – Merry Holocaustmas — TRANSCRIPT

Morgoth’s Review — Discussing the Government’s Anti-Extremism Agency ”Prevent” With Based British — TRANSCRIPT

Morgoth’s Review — Hate-Reading The Guardian – Hirsch, Critical Theory & Nihilism, Jan 2019 — TRANSCRIPT

Morgoth’s Review — The Psychotic Left, Feb 2019 — TRANSCRIPT

Morgoth’s Review – Fishing For White Pills, Feb 2019 — TRANSCRIPT

Morgoth’s Review – Hope Not Hate and the State of Play, Feb 2019 — TRANSCRIPT

 

 

Morgoth’s Review – A Conversation with Jacktion, Mar 2019 — TRANSCRIPT

Morgoth’s Review – YouTube Hangout 01 – Skeptics and Cucks — TRANSCRIPT

Red Ice TV – Extinction Rebellion, Our Future of Bugs and Pods – Morgoth’s Review – Oct 10, 2019 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Against The Controlled Warmongers of The Right – Jan 3, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Turbocharged Atomization – May 15, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Free Falling – Jun 1, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – ”Cracka” Is Anti-White Filth – Jun 29, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Edward Bernays – The Group and The Herd – Jul 1, 2020 — Transcript

 

 

Morgoth’s Review – Why The Conservative Party Conserves Nothing – Jul 16, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – The Telegraph vs The Guardian – Or How To Lose A Culture War – Jul 31, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – On Liberal Blindness To The Jewish Question – Aug 4, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Notes On Machiavelli – Aug 14, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Neo-Liberalism & the Ballad of Terry Bell – Sep 15, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Morgoth & Endeavour’s Classic Movies 1 – Lawrence of Arabia – Oct 10, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Systems of Control – China’s Social Credit vs Western Political Correctness – Oct 16, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – The Deep Breath Before the Plunge – Nov 3, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – The Twitterfication of Everything – Nov 17, 2020 — Transcript

 

Morgoth’s Review – My Image of 2020 – An Analysis – Dec 7, 2020 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – London’s New Year’s Firewoke Display – Jan 1, 2021 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Winter is Here – Jan 9, 2021 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – Reading ”American Extremist” by Josh Neal – Feb 6, 2021 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – The Frozen North & Frozen Thinking – Feb 10, 2021 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – The Equation That Destroyed Our World – Feb 14, 2021 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – The Last of Us – Feb 24, 2021 — Transcript

Morgoth’s Review – How Piers Morgan Shapes the Discourse – Mar 3, 2021 — Transcript

 

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Simon: Okay. Hello everyone. And welcome to European Freedom livestream number 23! And I’ve called this one “Is Populism and Patriotism Enough”. And we’ve got a really great guest tonight. Veteran activist Paul Rimmer. So we’ve got a really good show ahead of us. But before I introduce Paul, I’m gonna talk to my mate it’s Horus. How’s it going?

 

Horus: Good thanks Simon. Yeah it’s lovely and sunny here, but it’s a cold wind. Yeah I had a nice big satisfying dinner. I’m doing all right. How are you doing?

 

Simon: I’m doing okay. Did you have a Viennetta for pudding?

 

Horus: [laughter] No just a bit of chocolate.

 

Simon: Or it’s just special?

 

Horus: No we had one on Sunday [laughter] actually.

 

Simon: I had strawberries and very, very classic vanilla ice cream. So I’m doing okay really. Okay I have to ask you the eternal question. What’s the state of the video? It’s been about six weeks since the last video mate!

 

Horus: No more. Yeah I recorded another part to it the other day and I’m gonna record another one tomorrow as well. So it’s gonna be six parts. And then I’ve still got to edit a lot of it as well. So I don’t know. Still not ready.

 

Simon: Months and months!

 

Horus: Yeah, sorry. I did a live stream with Haryan Gláeddyv [Silver Sword] on Saturday though. If people wanna watch something on my channel, check out my channel for that.

 

Simon: Okay great! Okay now we’ve got to introduce our fantastic guest, who is Paul Rimmer, who’s a veteran activist. I use this in the broadest sense there, the word, because we’re gonna talk about a bit about his political history. And he and I have been chatting. Well not chatting really kind of interacting mainly through the comments section of my videos for about 6 months, or so. Haven’t we Paul?

 

 

Paul: Yep.

 

Simon: And I’ve heard of you before that from EDL [02:02] activist Johnny Banks, who I’ve been friends with for years. And, in fact, I streamed with him about three years ago. And I should have should sense of a message today’s to say that you were on. He’ll probably be annoyed with me now. But I suppose really. And this is my introduction to you. I think we’re gonna discover over the course of this conversation some differences in our points of view.

 

But I think immediately, or certainly I felt, I was really pleased to see you in the comments, because I’ve heard of you. And I think we’ve kind of hit it off immediately. And I suppose what I want to get out of this conversation is that nationalist, Patriots, we’re all in this together and should be moving more, or less in the Right in the same direction. I don’t know why what you think about that mate?

 

Paul: Absolutely! Yeah, I think unity is the key really. I mean, we’ve all got the same purpose which is to save our nations. But we need to come together to achieve that. If we don’t come together we fight it as small groups and individuals it’s just self effort. It will get nowhere. But if we have purpose but no unity, it will all just be self-indulgence. We’ve got to come together and sort of pool our resources, because we’ve got one heck of a fight going on!

 

Simon: Yeah definitely. Because really we’re in the state of its “make-or-break” isn’t it? We’re fighting for survival in the West here. We’re approaching a very crucial moment in our history.

 

Paul: I think we’re in desperate times to be honest. The scale of immigration, and the collapse of our own demographic sort of reproduction is frightening! I mean, this is going to augment massive changes over the next two decades. And if we don’t wake up we’re just going to be pushed aside! And we’ll be, you know, consigned to the [04:00] rubbish bin of history.

 

Simon: Yeah definitely. I suppose the point, the place I wanted to start with really was how you and I kind of got to know each other. You started commenting on my videos back in October, when the whole thing in Catalonia kicked off.

 

 

And I suppose what we could establish first is the similarities in our positions. I slowly came to the conclusion that’s Catalan nationalism the Catalan independence movement is its false nationalism. It’s globalism, international Socialism, you know, masquerading as nationalism really.

 

Yeah, how do you view for Spain from Liverpool? I’ve heard you talk quite a lot about the Vox party. But how do you view the situation in Catalonia?

 

Paul: It’s a bit like Scotland really. It’s these sort of micro nationalisms. These sort of fracturing nationalisms, which want to attack the established nation-states. And they’ve taken on this, … Being sort of infiltrated by Marxists I would say. Who’ve managed to get themselves at the head of these pseudo nationalist movements and have pulled them dramatically to the Left!

 

So although they seem to be using terms like National Party, or calling for national autonomy they are, in fact, destroying the areas that they’ve taking power over! So it’s quite deceptive really what they’re doing!

 

Simon: Isn’t it interesting that lots of these nationalists, we talk about this quite often, because obviously I’m in Catalonia. But the SNP, Catalonia, Plaid Cymru to a certain extent, Sein Fein in Ireland, as well. And even in Quebec. All these kind of false nationalisms end up selling out to the whole multiculturalism, diversity, [06:01], or what we call the “Globohomo” agenda. Have you got any theories as to why this is? I personally think they’re designed to be this way.

 

Paul: I think they buy into a grievance politics. And they make themselves out as victims, and they develop this false narrative where they’ve been abused throughout history. And they’re still being abused today. And it’s not true! I mean, Scotland was a partner with England to create the British Empire!

 

Catalonia has always been the most prosperous region of Spain, and the most privileged region of Spain! But they seem to want to present themselves as the victims of some big bully. And it’s a fiction. And in order to maintain that fiction they go further and further to the Left. And for me it’s absurdity!

 

But! There’s money in it! This is the thing, these activists these left-wing nationalist activist, they’re getting control of institutions they’re getting control of government organizations, and they’re raking in the money! And there’s a built-in incentive to keep it going. Even though I’m not quite sure what they want, at the end of the day, because do they really want to fracture these very successful nations? I mean, that would be disastrous!

 

Simon: I mean, I don’t know what you think about it, Horus go ahead.

 

Horus: Now you’ve mentioned before Simon the Open Society Foundation got involved in the Catalan struggle as well. Is that right?

 

Simon: Yeah, because Open Society Foundation is very, the whole Soros thing is deeply embedded here. Soros hasn’t got offices in every city, but he’s got offices in Barcelona. The reason why, I mean, I think everybody on the stream knows that I was kind of heavily involved in the independence movement.

 

And I used to have a show on in English radio in Catalonia. And we got head hunted by Catalan national radio to do a show for them. And it would have been, we started [08:02] to move in the highest circles of Catalan left-wing independence politics. And there were Soros types everywhere. There’s a kind of foreign office, kind of Catalan foreign office called Diplocat [The Public Diplomacy Council of Catalonia]. I think three of the people that work there, three out of the seven people that work there also work for Soros. There’s also a think tank called CIDOB, where the people that work there works on government policy. Where the people that work there move between open societies foundations. So they’re completely embedded. Catalonia really is a color revolution, completely!

 

Horus: And that’s where money becomes a factor for the activists, like Paul said as well, right? I mean, Soros is a sort of a fountain of money isn’t he?

 

Simon: Yeah. And also what’s very unfortunate is the useful idiots. I spent a lot of time with useful idiots, who actually believed in globalism! They actually are firmly committed to the destruction of their own culture, their own country. They want to break away from Spain and fill it with migrants!

 

Okay, before I stop, I’m gonna add one more thing. You’ve probably heard of “Open Arms” the group that saves refugees, or fake refugees. Well they’re based just outside Barcelona.

 

And it’s stop and think about. If it’s got “open” at the start of its name, it’s probably funded by Soros. And this is totally funded by Soros. Open society foundation, Open Arms, Open Democracy is another of his groups. And, you know, they’re, the normal Catalans, who I love, many of whom are my friends have bought into this “let’s flood our land with refugees”! [10:00] a bit like Plaid Cymru [The Party of Wales] wanting to turn Wales into the most accepting part of the world for accepting refugees! Catalonia is very much the same, it’s so depressing.

 

Paul: It just shows how false the whole narrative is. Because there they are to preserve Welsh traditions, and Welsh culture. And they want to flood it with people who have no connection with Welsh culture whatsoever! But Soros has got to be the most sinister character since Joseph Stalin! I mean, Stalin created the Third International and it was a huge network around the globe manipulating the Communist agenda, imposed it on nation’s.

 

And Soros seems to have this vast network, because he’s accumulated so much wealth through the financial system. Incredible amount of wealth! He’s just buying in people and he’s obviously totally committed to this agenda of destroying the Western nations! Destroying Christendom! And it’s very sinister!

 

Horus: I always wonder with us of the Left wing nationalists, like those Plaid, like those in the Catalan movement, and the SNP. Like do they ask themselves, or each other, do they ever try and answer:

 

“Why is it that we’re supported by one of the very richest men in the whole world?”

 

Like how does that fit with left-wing politics? Like do they never, does that not trouble them?

 

Paul: I think it’s all bogus! Beginning to end! It is about enriching and empowering themselves. And they are buying into the agenda that brings that forth.. I don’t think ideologically that actually they are that deep. I mean, they’ll probably switch horses very quickly if anything went wrong. But they seem to have did the media on their side. And the political establishment on their side. And therefore, like the globalist they’ll just into this game of constant manipulation of the public. Constantly deceiving the public!

 

Horus: So for most than the you reckon it’s mostly a case of just getting on a massive gravy train?

 

Horus: Well, I can’t see any other reason for it.

 

[12:02]

 

Simon: I’m gonna have to disagree with you Paul. I mean, certainly Esquerra Republicana [(Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya (Catalan Republican Left) are the SNP of Catalonia)]. But when I was doing this radio show I had the chance to interview most of the bigwigs in the party. And a lot of people that founded the Assamblea Nacional Catalana [pro-independence Catalan National Assembly] which is the kind of the Catalan civil organized organizing group for the independence movements. They’re the ones that organize all the marches. The Esquerra Republicana’s Foreign Minister who I got to know pretty well. I was involved in various groups with him. Interviewed him twice. Went out for drinks with him on a number of occasions. I think, yeah he did African Studies, and he’s just a fan of Africa!

 

You start talking to him, he knows his Catalan history, but he wants to turn it into Africa! The brother of the founder of the ANC, which is the Assemblée Nationale Catalana. He’s got two black African adopted sons, or at least one.

 

And you kind of talk to these people and most of them have really bought, have really bought into it! It’s utterly and completely disturbing! And I think they sincerely, or perhaps not all of them. The right-wing party is a lot more cynical. I think they want the money. But the Lefties actually believe this BS! I found it really, I used to come home from doing this show, and say to the missus,:

 

“You know, I’ve got to stop doing this! I can’t be around these people anymore!”

 

Because the terrible thing is, they thought I was one of them! That I’d spent a year with them completely under cover! So they’d kind of let all this stuff out in private. And yeah I have to disagree with you Paul.

 

[14:01]

 

Paul: Well what I would say Simon with that, is that these people hold this ideology, this globalist ideology, one-world ideology, bringing the whole human race together. They hold it almost like a religion. It’s their sort of, it gives their life meaning. And it’s their purpose in the world to break down all barriers between people. We all live in this supposed harmony, where all that created order is actually cast aside! But! There is a different reality which shows when they send their children to school.

 

And I’ve noticed this with a lot of left-wing people in England. They won’t send their children to school with the ethnic minorities! They insist on sending their children to school, posh English schools! And that shows you their heart really is. But, of course, that doesn’t pay for them. I mean, I know so many left-wing people who have lived in multicultural, multi-ethnic, areas.

 

Once they’ve had children and the children reach school age, they move out these areas into an exclusive sort of White, English, middle-class areas. And that’s, because, that’s where they really feel comfortable. But their earnings come from buying into the multicultural agenda. So I think they’re very schizophrenic in that sense. But the reality is the heart is against multiculturalism, even though they’re making a fortune out of it.

 

Horus: I think it can partly explained as well in terms of class, right? Like obviously we don’t have the same classes that Marx described, and there’s not simply a world, you know, like as leftists, like international leftists, there’s not simply a world working class, a world bourgeoisie, or whatever. But I think there is perhaps, or has been forming for some decades now, like a world cosmopolitan class where, yeah, like anti-racism and anti-nationalism, is probably the binding ideology of like what is a global class that exists across most of the nations of the world. And these people sort of like get assumed into it, assumes upwards, socially into this cosmopolitan class. That just sort of glides across the top of the world like cream, you know, and that’s how I see these people.

 

And obviously is greased very much like lubricated by money that comes from people like Soros, probably Bill Gates and people like that as well. And Bono [chuckling] and the anti-nationalism is the binding ideology of that class. They might not all really believe in it, but they all go along with it, because it serves to bind their class together. And what you said about the schools, Paul, I can imagine, yeah they go to schools that are mostly White. But there will also be the odd, very wealthy, Nigerian, with a very wealthy Indian, or something. They’re like this son of an Indian billionaire. So they will have multiculturalism to that degree, but it’ll be with other wealthy globalist, you know, cosmopolitan types.

 

Paul: I think that’s the higher echelon to the globalism, you know. People who can move around the world who are really at the top of these institutions. But, of course, globalism that has this huge constituency below that. Which goes right down to primary school teachers, and people working in hospitals, and so on.

 

Horus: Yeah.

 

Paul: Especially public sector unions, liberal professionals. And it’s they’re sort of slightly working-class, a lot of them. Just upper working class. And even amongst them you see this discrimination when it comes to their children in terms of education. They don’t want their children educated with the ethnic minorities! Shows what their heart is.

 

Horus: Yeah. And for those of us who remain in the normal in the working-class in the older sense, [18:02] there are some of the most repulsive people, because they’re really close to the action! They know what harm they’re causing, and they still serve this kind of ruling class. Because they hope to be, to sort of ascend up, up towards it, I think.

 

Paul: And their treason is blatant as well! I mean, you know, they’ll fly the Palestinian flag, but they won’t touch the Union Flag! You know, they want to ally with anybody who’s anti-British, or anti-White, or anti-Christian. They despise Christianity, that is another aspect of it.

 

Simon: Did you see all those Liberal Democrats celebrating Ramadan the other day? [chuckling] What a pathetic bunch! I found us this guy on Twitter the other day, had got up early in the morning to have breakfast. And he was gonna spend the rest of the day celebrating Ramadan. But significantly these people hadn’t celebrated St. George’s day, so their kindness is utterly and completely misplaced!

 

Paul: And their sincerity is really bogus as well, because, before they’ll celebrate Ramadan, they’ll go on a gay pride march and celebrate, you know, sexual perversity! So I mean, it doesn’t mean that. They’re just plugging in to people they regard as their constituency. There’s no real loyalty to any of this! It’s just absurd! The Liberal Democrats, I mean, they’re playing this sexual politics game now. You know, their leader, I think that one of the women who sort of campaigned to be leader the Liberal Democrats, she described herself as “pansexual”!

 

Horus: Layla Moron, isn’t it?

 

 

Paul: Yeah [chuckling] ten years ago that would have been totally absurd! But now that that plays well amongst the Liberal Democrats. There totally lost people.

 

[20:00]

 

Horus: I wonder, like if they actually, do they not realize that almost all Muslims will laugh at them for doing this! Right? It’s not something that actually earns the respect, or the affection, of Muslims. I don’t think so at all. It’s bizarre!

 

Simon: But Muslims are noble savages as far as they’re concerned! [loud laughter] Muslims can have no evil thoughts! Please bear in mind it is a religion of peace, isn’t it!

 

Horus: 100%!

 

Paul: Well I think if the Muslims appreciate the key elements of it. It’s false! It’s false adulation of Islam. But it helps them in advancing, you know, the dar al-Islam, their control of this country. So they’ll appreciate that.

 

Horus: I’m sure they welcome it, because, yeah, it increases their power. But I imagine their feelings about it are contemptuous.

 

Paul: We’re all dhimmis* aren’t we to them. So I mean, these are just showing that they’ve accepted this dhimmi status of inferiority and they’ll bow the knee at a Muslim festival.

 

[* Dhimmi refers to specific individuals living in Muslim lands, who were granted special status and safety in Islamic law in return for paying the capital tax.]

 

Horus: We will start seeing them convert as well. That can happen to a lot of White leftists. There’ll be a certain tipping point where a load of them will just convert all at once.

 

Paul: And they put the burqa* on.

 

[* Burqa — The terms niqab and burqa are often conflated; a niqab covers the face while leaving the eyes uncovered, while a burqa covers the entire body from the top of the head to the ground, with only a mesh screen allowing the wearer to see in front of her. The burqa is also not to be confused with the hijab, a garment which covers the hair, neck and all or part of the chest, but not the face. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa]

 

Horus: Yeah, all sorts. Well they’ll probably wear like a rainbow burqa, at first, or something. But they will slide towards just basically worshiping the Saudi version eventually.

 

Paul: Well, what’s got me about Keir Starmer when he first became Labour Party leader, he made a big speech about the Labour Party’s got to win back — who have they got to win back? The White working-class. They lost seats, they lost seats in White working-class areas to Conservatives. Now they’ve got to win back the Hindu vote! The Indian vote! And they sort of see themselves now as the party of the ethnic minorities! It’s almost as if they’ve sort of totally now ditched the working-class, the indigenous people of this country. They don’t really want to touch it. And the Liberal Democrat are the same.

[22:02]

 

Simon: Well, they completely have, haven’t they. And to continue talking about these kind of people, they must live in a world of complete cognitive dissonance, because of all the parts of the kind of progressive stack are mutually inconsistent with each other.

 

 

And I don’t know if you’ve seen the message. There’s a group in our circles called “The Hundred Handers“. A fantastic group who put out leaflets all over the country. And when you read in the papers about “White supremacist hate leaflets” being put in the city, it’s a group of our friends. But one are their leaflets is:

 

“Islam is right about women.”

 

Which  completely shows the cognitive dissonance that they must be feeling.

 

Paul: Islam is right about homosexuality!

 

Simon: [chuckling] It’s exactly the same! But I was reading the other day — I can’t remember the exact quote — but we are kind of living in a “1984” time.

 

 

And it seems to me that what the powers that be are trying to make us do is profess to believe increasingly evident lies! You know, we have to go along with transgenderism, Islam is consistent with homosexualism, this complete mass of weirdness!

 

And it the way to the way to really subjugate people is to make them make them lie to themselves. They have to go along with it and they have to say:

“Yeah transgenders really exist,”

 

And they have to pay lip service to that. And it’s even more humiliating if you actually start to bleep this stuff out. I mean, this is one of your big points, isn’t it Paul? I know that you’re Christian. I’m a kind of a borderline Christian but I feel that’s part of what us in the on the nationalistic, patriotic end of politics are, we’re people that are true to ourselves. I refuse to lie about this stuff! Two and two make four! Nobody on earth is gonna get me to tell you that they make five!

 

Paul: Yeah I mean, you know, we are authentic people. We speak the truth from the heart, simple truths, you know, about the nature of the world. But there is a simple truth about the Left, as well as the Liberals. Their agenda is not bringing this coalition together. Their agenda is hatred for us! It’s a hatred for our traditional societies, our traditional faith, a home, Britain, and what we’ve done for the world.

 

They’re actually united in this desire to destroy us! That’s what brings the Muslims, homosexuals, the feminists, the Marxists, all together in this coalition. I mean, they stay as a coalition, as long as we’re there to be attacked, you know. But the White male, the heterosexual White male from Christendom, that’s the hate figure they want to destroy. And that’s why they’re so sinister, so disturbing.

 

Horus: This is why I’d say tactically, it makes so much sense for us to encourage them to express that hatred as clearly and acutely as possible, because that gives us the best chance of our people awakening to this anti-White anti-male front that exists.

 

Paul: You see it best in the Trump derangement syndrome, where they absolutely hate Trump, because he’s a male, he’s White, he’s successful, he’s got a beautiful wife! They hate everything about him!

 

Horus: It’s amazing, because he’s barely done anything! Like he hasn’t done things anywhere near as bad as George White Bush. For the Left there’s so much more reasons to hate George White. He was responsible for, you know, huge number of deaths and misery and destruction. And Trump and done anything like that. But they hate Trump ten times more!

 

[26:15]

 

Paul: Because Trump mobilized the ordinary American patriots, the working-class, the White working-class. He brought them back into the political arena and has made them a political force again. Whether that’ll inspire the next elections is a question. But it really disturbed than that. They thought they destroyed the American patriots under Obama, you know, his eight years as President. They targeted them. They flooded their communities with drugs, they took away their manufacturing jobs. They constantly denigrated them and try to break their spirit! Trump brought them back from the dead! And they really loathe that.

 

Horus: Yeah, the fact that he just made nods towards ethnic identity, or White racial identity. That was what frightened and infuriated them so much, I think.

 

Paul: You see that Michigan sort of protest about the lockdown? In Michigan where the White militia turned up, the state militias with their guns. And they were so cocky and confident! And that’s what really disturbs the Left.

 

Horus: They really are terrified just by the appearance of that. It’s not even them doing anything, it’s just the fact that he exists! And it’s not on its knees. They really infuriates them.

 

Simon: Okay guys let’s move on a little bit with the conversation.

 

I was going to be self-indulgent dodging and talk about Jose Antonio. I’ve got his name in this week, because Paul, we got back in touch with me really commenting on my Jose Antonio primo de Rivera. But we’ll talk a little bit more about that Spain a little bit later.

 

I kind of wanted to do, as we as we kind of getting to know you. And perhaps a lot of the people in the audience don’t know Paul very well. I kind of like to go back a little bit through your history. And obviously I do my research. And you’ll tell me whether this is true, but I found lots of articles about you in the Liverpool Echo. The Liverpool Echo really love you, don’t they Paul.

 

[28:30]

 

Paul: Well I’ve stood for Mayor twice and stood for Police Commissioner. And I’ve stood for other political offices. So I got very well known on Merseyside side and engaged with lot of radio phone-ins. And I didn’t pull back, I really attacked the Left. Let them know what I thought about them. And people responded to that and really like it.

 

Simon: Okay this is, I mean, you can tell me if this is true I’ve got no idea this is what the Liverpool Echo says about you:

 

“As a young man growing up in Liverpool he was a member of the Labour Party and flirted with militant tendency. He later joined the Conservatives, the BNP, and more recently UKIP. And has now landed in the English Democrats and wants to be mayor of his home city.”

 

So perhaps I thought what we could do is we could go back through your political journey. I don’t know if it’s true whether you flirted with militants, or not. But I was a member of the Labour Party, probably around about the same same time as you were more on the Left. And I think it’s a very interesting thing to hear is how people go through their lives and finally reach, or when they reach the kind of, when they finally see the light when it comes to patriotism and nationalism.

 

So let’s go back to when you were a very young man. Were you involved with militants? This would have been cs.

 

[29:55]

 

Paul: Well I mean, my political odyssey started in the 1970s with the National Front. You know, first of all Enoch Powell, and then the National Front. Because in 1976 the National Front swept this nation! Swept the working-class communities, culturally, not politically. But we were all National Front supporters in north Liverpool. And there we were all on board to save this nation. We had an instinctive patriotism, an instinctive love of our people and we realized we were under threat. And in those days the White working-class was powerful. It was the biggest group in society and it could impose itself.

 

 

And it was only Mrs. Thatcher sort of picked up the National Front agenda. Started talking about putting White people at the top of council housing lists! Mrs. Thatcher used that language, “White people”. She started talking about the immigrants were threatening to swamp our cities and had to be stopped. And there so she sort of realized what way it was going into and she bought it. And she siphoned off that agenda and siphoned off the votes. So in 1979 Mrs. Thatcher won a very substantial majority in the general election.

 

And she brought out the Nationality Act. And she put down on immigration very quickly. And she started to stop the political correctness in the state system. And this led to the Toxteth riots [a Liverpool suburb] as a reaction in their sort of ethnic communities. But it’s really bizarre this, but in June 1979 the Conservatives won the European elections in Liverpool. People think Liverpool’s a left-wing city. In 1979 Liverpool backed Margaret Thatcher, believe it, or not. But, it then all went sour very quickly. When the recession hit, monetarism. She allowed Sterling to go too high, unemployment suddenly mushroomed to three million.

 

People were getting very disturbed by her agenda and the whole city just moved dramatically to the Left. And I was carried along with that tide. And I heard people in the militant tendency, preaching their message. And it had a passion in it! And it was a sort of was a rallying call to the people of Liverpool. And I was swept along in that.

 

[32:10]

 

And I read the Communist Manifesto. And I thought this is reality! This is what’s happening now! This is showing us away forward! And I bought into it completely. And then I got involved with militants and got involved with the Trotskyites, and explored Marxism. I mean, I read everything, you know, I devoured it! And I was really committed. I was really militant for about two years, three years.

 

And then I started to question it. I started to question, the people involved in it. Started to question it’s hostility to liberty and to our traditions. And I just became disillusioned with it, you know, to be honest. And, of course, in 1983 Margaret Thatcher won the general election, and the Left, the wind was taken out of its sail. And it was a new dawn in Britain really.

 

And I was a boxer, so I was around sort of military types at University, Cambridge. And I started to associate more with them and with it with their view of the world. And I read Roger Scruton’s book “The Meaning of Conservatism” [published 1980] and it give me this sort of intellectual ideological depth to take on the Left. And I just completely changed sides.

 

But really I was going back, I was reverting to what I believed as a kid, you know, to my instinctive patriotism, way back in 1976. I just reconnected with that. So I regard the whole left-wing period as just an aberration really. It was just part of that time. And a lot of working-class people were caught up in it. And I think a lot of us are shaking it off.

 

Simon: And then you joined, you actually joined the Conservative Party, didn’t you, throughout the Thatcher period?

 

Paul: I never got involved though in activism. And I went to work in the City of London which was a very conservative thing to do. But then I sort of, I mean, politics lost a bit of edge, you know, in the late 80s, early 90s. Things calmed down. Thatcher went didn’t she in 1990. Major come to the fore.

 

But I was very disturbed by the Maastricht Treaty. And I began to realize this was going to be a big issue in the future. I could see the way we were conceding more and more ground to the European Union. And this was impact on our sovereignty. And I thought eventually, it’s gonna impact everything! Including our control of our borders and immigration.

 

[34:33]

 

But don’t forget when John Major lost a general election 1997, immigration into this country was only 50,000 per year! So it was minuscule compared to today. I mean, it’s more than ten times that now. So it wasn’t a very big issue.

 

But I’ve become aware that demographically the West was being left behind by Islam, by India, and Africa. And as the youths were building up in these areas, we were aging, our population was aging. And I saw, I realized there was a danger there. There was a danger that we were actually going to be overwhelmed by the youthful vigor of these other continents. And we had to change direction. And I was really concerned about the level of abortion in Britain. And the fact the families are getting smaller and smaller. But it wasn’t panic stations at that point!

 

But when Blair won the election in 97, you know, like yourself Simon, I’ve been in the Labour party. And I knew what the Labour Party’s agenda was! I knew they were gonna hand over all our sovereignty to the European Union. They were gonna break up the United Kingdom! You were gonna flood the country with immigrants, on a vast scale!

 

And I tried to I try to warm people in 1997. Don’t vote for Blair, he’s a danger! But people were blind! They were so bought in by Blair, they believed in Tony Blair so much in 1997! It disillusioned me about the British people. I thought:

“Can they be manipulated so easily?”

 

Because I knew exactly what Blair and Mandelson were up to! And for me, that was that the day of catastrophe when they took power. And then I went back to nationalism, really, to the National Front in a sense. I went back to the British National Party. Because they were the only party that was speaking the truth on these issues.

 

[36:24]

 

Paul: Well my perspective was from, I went down south you see. So I saw the surge in prosperity in the south. And I knew eventually would actually go up north. When Margaret Thatcher began her attack on the trade unions and the imposition of monetarism, I think it was something like 365 leading economists wrote to the Guardian a letter and said:

 

“This is going to lead to economic catastrophe! It’s gonna destroy the British economy!”

 

But within two years the British economy was growing at 4% per annum. It was the fastest growing economy in Europe. And the investment just poured into this country. Because I was down south the investment initially went there. I saw the redevelopment! I saw factories being set up. I mean, Cambridge itself become a great industrial technological center. I saw a vast wealth. And in London the property prices started to surge. Stock market started to surge. And it was like a Renaissance of Britain. And, of course, Margaret Thatcher was a great figure on the international stage. Ronald Reagan loved her.

 

She began to influence the Communists. They began to listen to her ideas. Privatization, of course, was a big thing, creating efficiency in the public sector. And communism fell. I think Margaret Thatcher was sort of, was very much responsible for the victory in the Cold War. Of course, we also had the Falklands War as well.

 

Now, there was an underlying nationalism in Maggie. I mean, when I listened to her, I began to realize she had a passion about Britain and the British people! She really believed in our history. She really believed we had a mission in the world. And the English-speaking world was a Churchillian view really, and she was linked up with America. And she saw us as a leading light, and it inspired me! Because I’d got used to being in a decline and negativity in Liverpool! I’ve got used to like communist waffle and nonsense and people abusing the public sector. The inefficiency of the public sector, and the sense of national defeatism. You know, the hostility to Britain imposing itself on the world. And I’d grown tired of that.

 

And I think Thatcher was very inspirational! And I think I still think was a great tragedy that she was pulled down in 1990, because I think we would have left the European Union a lot earlier, to be honest.

 

[40:16]

 

Simon: Okay, that might be true, but my question is really what did Thatcher conserve? My big gripe, you know, the part of Nottingham where my family are traditionally from. My grandad —once again, everyone in the stream knows this — my granddad was a trade union leader, drove the buses, Transport and General Workers Union. The family had lived in my great, great, great, great — plenty of greats — was the first blacksmith on the river Leen before Radford even existed.

 

We were kind of an established family in Radford. And Radford had the Raleigh factory, the Players factory, and the pit. It was one of those traditional working-class communities where you could, I mean, I’m talking to up to the age of 10, 11, before we moved to the northwest, where everybody was auntie this, or uncle that, or where I could go into any house for an orange juice.

 

And really the miners strike was a massive turning point! It was becoming degraded already by the time I gone back to university. Because I actually had digs in the part of town where my family was from. So I was really going back to my roots. But really, the miners strike destroyed the Midlands and the north. I’ve got no idea, I haven’t been back to Liverpool for a long time.

 

But I can never really forgive Thatcher for that. And to be perfectly honest, you can talk to me about GDP and the economy all you like, but really what I want to say, I don’t care whether the economy’s booming, because if that money’s going to the wealthy, well it’s going into their pockets.

 

What I care about is the well-being, and now not in a kind of socialist way. In very much a kind of Jose Antonio primo de Rivera way! You’ve got to you have to look after the people. And I think Thatcher didn’t do this. Certainly not down our way.

 

[42:22]

 

Paul: I was down south and I was being told how desperate Liverpool was. And, you know, our poor the city had become, how shabby and sort of demoralized. I remember going back up north for me sort of break at the end of University. And the street where I lived, there was BMWs there. There was a Jaguar there. There was all sorts of flashy cars we had never seen before.

 

I mean, I just come from a working-class community and people were buying the council houses and renovating the council houses. People would actually become an entrepreneurial. They were starting their own companies! This is the true spirit of Britain! We’re not a nation that that buys into communism. We’re a nation that buys into enterprise, and actually, you know, making things happen, we’re a creative people. And I thought that was very much the sort of socialist propaganda that was being sold to us.

 

But there’s another factor as well, because I’m not an economic determinist. I don’t think people are shaped by the economy. I think people are shaped by cultural factors. And what really led to the collapse of the extended family, and the contraction in the number of children people had, and so on, was a turning away from Christianity.

 

I mean, it was the Labour Party in 1967 that brought abortion into this country. It was the Labour Party that legalized homosexuality! It was the Labour Party that made divorce easy! It was the Labour Party that undermined the social fabric of working-class communities.

 

And Margaret Thatcher understood this, because she always wanted to win back the inner cities and to revive them in a true British mode. But it proved very difficult, because the Labour Party had a grip on them. It’s only this recent election now, 2019, that the Labour Party’s finally lost it’s grip on the White working class in this country. And it was long overdue!

 

[44:12]

 

Simon: Sorry, I just switched my mic on. Horus, you’re a great, … I kind of accept your points Paul, but, you know, we have to have a productive conversation here. Horus, you’re a great critic of the Conservative Party, aren’t you? Have you got anything, any come back on Paul for this?

 

Horus: Yeah, probably that applies least to Thatcher though. I think she is one Tory who got a few things right.

 

Simon: That’s, because you’re a monetarist, aren’t you!

 

Horus: I’m not a monetarist. I’m against monetarism! Monetarism is bollocks. No, I’m an Austrian, … Yeah, she likes Hayek. And he was the worst of the Austrian school as well. But I like other Austrian school economists.

 

But with the miner’s strike, that was more, or less forced upon her. She prepared for it well, or you could say cynically. But that was caused, in my opinion, by NUM, or by the revolutionary leadership of the NUM, and by Scargill in particular. He was a revolutionary socialist! And he saw an opportunity, he believed wrongly, to bring her down and perhaps to bring down democracy, really. And to impose a “workers democracy”, you know, communist rule, basically.

 

It wouldn’t have been the same as the Soviet Union. But that was his aim. And. I don’t think she was closing, her government was closing mines any faster than Callahan and Wilson’s government had. As far as I could see, from what data I’ve seen, it might be manipulated. But from what I’ve seen, it was a pretty steady rate of closure going through the 70s, into the 80s. But whenever the Tories get into power — I saw this for the first time in my own life in 2007, very, very clearly — Labor, sorry the Left, just become one mass that swings into action! And they all know, they’re all ready, they all know that their program is to just bring down the Tories in any way they can.

 

[46:30]

 

And in the eighties, the Tories triggered a recession in the start of the eighties. So I mean, they sort of gave the Left an opportunity to attack them there. Didn’t quite bring her down, it was by a hair’s breadth that she hung on. But she did. Then the Falklands, they hoped, they supported the Argentine dictatorship, more, or less, hoping that would bring her down. And that didn’t go very well for them.

 

And then, they saw an opportunity with Scargill to try and bring her down. And yes, she sort of provoked the strike in some ways, by preparing for it. But that’s, because he was already pushing for it. And Scargill, he tried two, or three times, before he called the strike to get the NUM to vote for it. And they wouldn’t! The ordinary members didn’t want the strike. And eventually, after I think two, or three attempts, he just called a strike anyway, with minority support within his own Union. And the strike failed, partly, because several regions, I think, … Nottinghamshire might been one of them? Or Derbyshire?

 

Simon: Yeah. The Notts men, … Everybody hates Cargill! I mean, this is something I’ve argued about most of my life. I’m playing devil’s advocate with you a little bit Paul.

 

Paul: Yeah

 

Simon: But Scargill was a complete disaster. You see what you have to realize is that Notts and Yorkshire — I’m from, I’m Nottinghamshire born and bred, and pits are the best! Our coal seam is the best, that’s it! And what Scargill did, without consulting the Notts men he sent flying pickets down, and just put them outside the pit.

 

[48:20]

 

Paul: I remember it well.

 

Horus: Terroristic, right? Terroristic action!

 

Simon: And so the Notts men who tended to be more conservative and certainly didn’t like a Yorkshireman leading them, anyway. This just provoked them, not to come out. So basically Scargill scuppered it from the start off.

 

Horus: Attacking his own men?

 

Simon: Yeah. Completely!

 

Horus: Attacking his own class?

 

Simon: A completely ridiculous tactic!

 

Paul: I actually think though that there’s a lot of mythologizing about the coal industry. Digging for coal is a very primitive activity! It’s what people basically do in the Third World, now. I mean, if you can create a Technology Park, it would generate more wealth than any coal mines. I mean, the price of coal was collapsing in the 1980s, that’s why they didn’t need the pits. They could bring it in from Australia at 7 pound a ton! Seven pound for a ton of coal! I mean, how many tons of coal did you need to buy a BMW car? You want technology! We want a sophisticated productive economy.

 

We don’t want an economy based on primitive industry! So we had to move away from the coal industry. And it’s not a good job to go down and dig coal underground. It’s a very dangerous job, it’s very unpleasant. But to be honest. I don’t think it’s a job that we should be doing today. You know, I think it’s a very primitive job.

 

So all this mythologizing of the coal industry, I didn’t buy into it. But what was really significant about Thatcher was, she wasn’t Hayekian! She listened to the Austrian School of Economics, but that wasn’t where the heart was.

 

[49:55]

 

I was a Cambridge at the time and I was a bigger fan of Roger Scruton. And Roger Scruton mentor was a guy called Morris Cowling. He was a big friend of Enoch Powell. And they used to have a seminar in Peterhouse College. And Cowling would be there, Powell be there, Roger Scruton would turn up and Margaret Thatcher would turn up. That was it, she was a Tory nationalist, Margaret Thatcher. But here it was all about Britain.

 

When she died and they had a big funeral for her at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London. I went down to the funeral, and I gave her a speech in a pub afterwards with all the Tories. Where there was Tory MPs there. Michael Howard was there. And I said:

 

“Margaret Thatcher in essence was, she believed in Britain! She believed in the British spirit! She believed in the British people! And she believed that Britain could play a key role in the future of the world. And had a key role to play!”

 

Now a lot of Tories were really lifted by that.

 

But there was a group of Asian conservatives there, Hindus. There was a lot of Hindus now in the Tory Party. And they actually booed me when I said that. They said I was being fascististic, you know, for saying something like that. But that’s the essence of Margaret Thatcher. That she was a patriot. And that’s why really I admired her.

 

Horus: Morris Cowling is a fascinating character. He was quite working-class like her, wasn’t he? I think in origin.

 

Paul: He’s a tough cookie Morris Cowling! Didn’t take fools lightly, I tell you.

 

Horus: Do you remember about Scruton, they were like, sort of lower middle class, or working class, in origin? They weren’t toffs.

 

Paul: Roger Scruton’s father was a trade unionist and a Labour Party supporter.

 

Horus: Hmm. And Jonathan Bowden’s speech on Morris Cowling was really good. Have you heard that?

 

Paul: No. I mean, I was a great friend of Jonathan Bowden. It was just a tragedy when he died, aged 49. That man was a fantastic orator! I attended a lot of meetings where he spoke! We spoke together on many platforms. Real tragedy when he died.

 

[51:48]

 

Horus: Coming across his speeches, I think shortly after he died, maybe in the year after he died, was the first time I ever heard of him. I came across his speeches on YouTube. And that was the biggest red pill of all for me, because I was listening to something on YouTube and then it auto-played without me, you know, I was doing something else on my computer. And it auto-played on to a Bowden speech. And an hour passed and I looked down at the bottom, I was like that was interesting. What channel is this? And it was a BNP channel.

 

And until then in my life I’d never permit myself to click on anything to do with the BNP, right? Because I was just completely indoctrinated against all that. And just wholly believe that that was black magic! You don’t open that book! You know, I did by accident and he won me over, just like that.

 

Paul: I went to a meeting at the Irish National Party in Belfast. These are like it an anti-Sinn Féin Irish nationalists, genuine nationalists. And there was for a lot of lads there from West Belfast, you know, Catholic lads. So I said to them:

 

“So, how could you come here today and you’ve given up on Sinn Féin.”

 

And they said:

 

“We’ve all been listening to Jonathan Bowden on the Internet!”

 

Lol wow this guy I mean, I used to listen to his speeches, and I take a DVD home with the speeches. I’d listen to it 20 times! It was an education. I was amazed! And he’s still under-rated now. He still needs to be promoted more.

 

Horus: You’ve got any speeches that people haven’t seen already? You could publicize them, like people are gagging for more Bowden material. There’s speeches that people rumor about, that seemed not to have been recorded. And people are like:

 

“If we could only get this one!”

 

So if you’ve got any that aren’t already on YouTube.

 

Paul: There’s a guy in Wigan called Dr. Charles Martha, who sort of led the BNP in the northwest of England. Ex Labour guy but a [word unclear], but a great man. And Jonathan Bowden would just turn up at a meeting in a pub in St. Helens, or in Wigan and give one of his speeches, you know! And Charles Martha would actually film it. So he made DVDs of all these speeches. You know, he’s got quite a collection. I think someone needs to connect with them, you know, and release them. Because they are amazing speeches!

 

[54:04]

 

Horus: That would be gold dust! If there’s more you could put out there, that’d be amazing!

 

Paul: . I don’t think there’s been anybody in modern British politics who can touch Jonathan Bowden. For, you know, the way he would open up the cultural nature of conservativism. The way he’d talk about the glory of Britain. And his insight into actual politics, world politics, was unique!

 

Horus: I realized one one step when I realized how brilliant he was when I listened to his speech about Punch and Judy! Which I’ve never, you know, it’s a topic I never cared about whatsoever! And suddenly Punch and Judy’s really interesting! He’s brilliant! Because he I think he used to perform Punch and Judy shows sometimes as well.

 

Paul: [laughter] He was a very eccentric character Jonathan Bowden! You wondered where he came from! He was like a visitor from another planet! [chuckling]

 

Horus: I think many people, …

 

Paul: I think he must have had a super intellect. I think he had a Mensa IQ, because his mine was just a treasury, you know. But tragically, 49 he died!

 

Simon: That kind that kind of brings us on, going through your history really. Because we’ve done the Tory Party, Conservative Party. Then you were a BNP member weren’t you? Obviously this is where you coincided with Jonathan Bowden. What year did you join the BMP?

 

Paul: Well, I had almost given up hope in 2001 after Labour got reelected and the Tories were going nowhere. And suddenly Nick Griffin emerged in Oldham. And had that famous election where he muted his own mouth, you know, he put a thing around his mouth. And then I thought there’s some hope here! That Briton, there’s still some hope.

 

[55:56]

 

And then in 2002, they won some council seats in Burnley. I mean, it’s very hard to win elections in Britain, because they’re all first past the post, of course. And that’s when I joined. I thought, I’ve gotta get involved with this. Because I had boxed at Cambridge and so had Nick, so we had that connection. So I thought, I want to get behind him and make what contribution I can. What a fantastic journey that was! I was in it for 10 years. And the BNP was a tragedy when it collapsed! But for 10 years it was rockin, you know.

 

Simon: And this is the kind of, … I suppose this is really, you mentioned that you are aware of the Islamification of Britain previously. But this is one of the great misnomers isn’t it? That it was the EDL that revealed the grooming gangs and what was happening in the north of England. But, in fact, it was many, perhaps what, 2005, 2006 it was the BNP that were talking about this, even that early on.

 

Paul: Well the truth is, a lot of people were aware of what these Pakistanis were up to, these Pakistani grooming gangs. And they were basically fishing for our kids! You know, driving around in cars and they’re getting to know the young girls, and grooming them, and turning then into heroin addicts and prostitutes! And people would irate about this! But, the police wouldn’t listen to any complaints! The police were totally doing the Labour Party’s bidding! And the media wouldn’t listen to it. And ordinary people couldn’t make an impact on this situation.

 

But the BNP, because they were so well organized and so motivated! And so effective as well! They were a very professional party the BNP. They started to rattle the police and the media. And they started to a real campaign against these grooming gangs, especially in places like Keithley in Burnley. And they started to win council seats in these area. So they had political representatives you could speak out on behalf of these girls who were being groomed.

 

And we got a crescendo going! We got a movement going! And that’s when I saw the anti-democratic nature of the British State. The police came down on us like a ton of bricks! I mean, members of the BNP were beaten up by operatives of the state. People started to have their bank accounts closed, and then the arrests began.

 

[58:12]

 

And the arrested both Nick Griffin and Mark Collett. He was there right at the hub of it. And they went to court in Leeds, I think it was, 2005. And it become a big national case! And that was really when the whole nation became aware of what was going on with these grooming gangs. So yeah, I mean, EDL picked it up. But it was the BNP who led the fight back. The BNP were brilliant mobilizing working-class communities in the north of England, and the Midlands. And in London as well. And winning elections! I mean, they won over a hundred council seats! They won county council seats. And then eventually, of course, they won MEPs. [Member of the European Parliament]

 

But that was a danger then, because the establishment were fully mobilize against us. I mean, with a big organization we had maybe 17, 18 thousand members, official members. We had tens of thousands of non-official members. We would hold up meetings in Liverpool, 150 people would turn up!

 

I mean, I remember speaking at Lee in Lancashire, and there was over two hundred people in this pub listening to the speech. And this was a heartland of the Labour Party. Labor had held this seat since the First World War. And we were mobilizing the people of Lee behind us. But the Labour Party managed to thwart us from winning that seat. But Lee just voted Tory and I think we put down roots there in our campaigns in that decade between 2000, 2010, which have finally come to fruition now.

 

And the BNP, the fact that it collapsed so quickly was a tragedy. Because we used to have red White and blue, we’d have this summer fete, you know, where people come from all over the country. And we did can with the English people! It was the first time since 1976 when the National Front swept this nation, that we saw a nationalist movement sweep this nation! Because when Griffin won a seat in 2009 in the European elections, I can remember people coming to Liverpool town centre to party! Ordinary, working-class people. At last we had a voice, but tragically it collapsed very quickly.

 

[60:17]

 

Horus: Do you attribute the collapse largely to the activities of the state? Or to several different things, or what?

 

Paul: The state turned the screw, but Griffin played the wrong game. Instead of bending slightly, … I mean, when a strong wind comes, a tree must bend, or it will break. He should have bent. He refused to allow ethnic minorities into the party. And he actually went to court to defend that. And he wasn’t gonna win that case!

 

And the British people, I mean, they didn’t want the full board of nationalism. But they were keen on the policies we were offering, and they were keen on a lot of the solutions we were offering. And we had that support! We had we started to touch people’s hearts. It was fantastic to see! I mean, I saw in Liverpool. We got six thousand votes in Liverpool, you know, which had been a Left wing city for a long time.

 

And we would go round with a trailer, a jeep with a trailer behind, with the BNP on, and we’d blast our music, and the people would come out to the houses to buy newspapers off us and stuff. We were really impacting this nation. Well, I think Obama’s victory in 2008, was very much a check on us, because the Americans wanted us killed off as well. And they had the deep state, the British deep state began to work against us. And, as I say, we don’t live in a democratic society.

 

I can remember having pub meetings where there’d be 30, 40, 50 people just turned up to hear a few speeches, have a drink, socialize. The police would raid it! Like we were involved in a criminal activity! They would threaten the landlord, who would eject us from the pub! It was criminal activity by the state! And I began to think, the British state was acting like an East European communist state. It was really scary stuff.

 

[62:11]

 

And that they saw us as a threat. And. I don’t think the time was quite right for us to achieve much more to be honest. We passed the baton on to UKIP. And they got us out of the EU. But we’ve lost a lot of the nationalist sort of ideology, and we need to rekindle a nationalist movement in Britain. It’s desperate now! We really do.

 

Simon: Sorry. Go ahead.

 

Horus: No, go ahead Simon.

 

Simon: Because then you ended up leaving the BNP, didn’t you? And you joined UKIP, was it with UKIP was that the first time you stood for political office?

 

Paul: No. I stood for the English Democrats initially. And I did well in Liverpool. And I had a good campaign and UKIP noticed this. And they approached me and said:

 

“Look, why don’t you stand for us? You can stand there in Liverpool for UKIP. We’ve got a bigger platform than the English Democrats and we will support you.”

 

But then UKIP began to come under pressure for accepting exBNP people. And Farage panicked. You know, the media were threatening to sort of start to denigrate him and accuse him of being a fascist, and so on. He panicked and said:

 

“No we’ve got to get the BNP out the party!”

 

So I was told that I couldn’t stand as mayor for Liverpool for UKIP. So I stood for the English Democrats, instead. And I got 7,000 votes for Police Commissioner, which was quite a decent vote for Liverpool.

 

Simon: So, how long were you with the English Democrats? A lot of the press you get in Liverpool, is from that period, isn’t, I’m guessing?

 

Paul: Well I was arrested. I was arrested twice. And they were big court cases. Once I went into a police station and said:

 

“What’s the flag above the police station? Where’s the Union flag?”

 

He said:

 

“Oh. This is a gay flag!”

 

It was the gay rainbow flag. And I said:

“I don’t think that is right, flying that above a police station!”

 

But they arrested me and charged me with homophobia! And it become a big case! It got national attention! And Eric Pickles* had to make the gay flag an official police flag, because I counter-attacked, and charged the police flying this flag illegally, which they were.

 

[* Pickles was the Chairman of the Conservative Party from 2009 to 2010 and is currently the chairman of Conservative Friends of Israel. He is the United Kingdom Special Envoy for post-Holocaust issues, being appointed in 2015.]

 

[64:20]

 

You need special permission to fly a non-official flag above a police station. They didn’t have it! And had them on the run, the police. So that become a big case in Liverpool. That got me a lot of attention. But I stood for the mayor twice, and I crossed swords with their Joe Anderson, who’s the Liberal mayor in the debates. And I really put him in his place! And I got a lot of a attention.

 

Simon: Horus?

 

Horus: Eric Pickles is, even by Tory standards, an outstandingly contemptible prat! [chuckling] Oh God!

 

I was just I was quite stirred by what you said about the BNP. Like how well things were going for a while. And you said we need now, like something, I don’t know what was the term you used was, but something to spark off that kind of excitement again. Do you feel, …

 

Paul: A nationalist revival.

 

Horus: Yeah. I mean, did you see, …

 

Paul: Well, it’s happening in Europe! I mean, it’s happening in Italy would Salvini, before, you know, the coronavirus episode. And the brothers of Italy. It’s obviously, it’s had its day in France with Marine Le Pen. And then Simon must know about the Vox Party in Spain. Their recent performance has been astonishing in Spanish elections.

 

Simon: Yeah, very much.

 

Paul: I think there’s an appetite there! There’s an appetite there for a patriotic force, you know. But you are going to have to battle against the state!

 

Horus: Yeah.

 

Paul: What is really positive at the moment, is that the Left are totally demoralized! They’ve lost so many elections! They’ve been pushed out of power. And they don’t seem to have the will now to resist us.

 

I think if we moved up a gear. I mean, but I could see what Paul Golding and Britain first, … I mean, Paul Golding is an amazing political activist! He can create big things out to nothing! He have three million followers on Facebook. I mean, he had a campaign in Northern Ireland recently, it’s only exploded out of nowhere! But the state come down on him like a ton of bricks! They persecuted him. This is the problem, the deep state now. They are thwarting democratic activity in Britain. It’s very sinister!

 

[66:35]

 

Horus: Simon didn’t you put in the show notes for tonight’s show something saying like when we’re talking about persecution of say Paul Golding, or Tommy Robinson. We need to generally back each other across the dividing lines of our movements. Was that your words, or were you quoting Paul there?

 

Simon: I can’t remember what I said. When I put these show notes together I kind of cut and paste from lots of places. It’s definitely my sentiment. I think it’s a very important thing. Broadly we need to be supporting people.

 

Horus: I think the powers will be turning against all of us, obviously.

 

 

“Why don’t we talk about nationalism via email?”

 

So we’ve exchanged a few emails. And we seem to be more, or less in the same place. So it makes a lot of sense for all of us to know that we are working towards similar objectives. And broadly giving support to people when they come into trouble, I think.

 

Paul: Well the likes of Tommy and Paul Golding. I mean, Paul Golding’s been arrested more than ten times! And he’s been incarcerated. And he’s been fined. And he’s had this bank account closed so many times. I mean, not being arrested three times. And each time I’ve been vindicated! I’ve turned the tables on the police. I’ve actually prosecuted the police! Because if you get to know the legal system, you begin to realize that they just ride roughshod over the laws of this country! They think they can do what they want, the police.

 

[68:21]

 

Now the thing is with my prosecutions of the police, they went a long way, but they weren’t successful. Because when it looks like you’re going to defeat the police, the Crown Prosecution Service takes over the case, and closes it! You cannot defeat the police! It’s Orwellian what they have done to our state!

 

But yeah, this could be the problem for nationalist parties in the future. That they’ll use legal means to try and thwart us at every turn. I mean, Tony Blair introduced in 1998 “hate crimes”, you know, this novel idea that’s what you think could now be criminalized. And since then there’s been a whole series of laws which have limited how we can express ourselves. And even our freedom of assembly.

 

I mean, I was prosecuted in Northern Ireland, virtually for nothing! I made a speech which was pretty, you know, it was a very moderate speech, deliberately so. It was outside the City Hall in Belfast. And I realized it was a dangerous place to make the speech. I didn’t want to promote the authorities there. I made a very moderate speech and then three months later my house was raided by the police! And I was dragged to Northern Ireland to face a criminal prosecution! Which went on for two years! They got me involved in a criminal case which lasted two years, just to thwarth my political activity. This is how the State now operates in Britain! It’s deeply disturbing! It’s deeply undemocratic!

 

I mean, we’ve got Trump taken on the deep state in America. I’m hoping that if he gets reelected and he cleanses that state, and gets rid of all these sort of the globalist operatives. And that would come over here and Trump will say:

 

“Clean up your act in Britain and let democracy go forth.”

 

[70:12]

 

Simon: I think it was just a bit, … Excuse me. But I think you’re a bit optimistic about Trump. I mean, Trump has been in office for four years, and he really hasn’t built the wall. He hasn’t cleaned the swamp. You can see from the Epstein death that the swamp hasn’t been cleaned at all. They’re still, you know, sliming about all over the place.

 

Really what makes you think that if he gets in again, isn’t he just going to be kind of treading water and running out his term? And a little bit like the Tories. Yes, he dog whistles to nationalism, which is why he’s not liked. But when it really comes down to its he actually doesn’t do very much. And it by the same token Boris Johnson isn’t gonna do very much. Boris Johnson, the Left call him a fascist and a Nazi, but in reality these people are pretty much as globalist as anybody else. They just come out with the nationalist rhetoric.

 

Paul: I think Johnson’s a comedian like figure. He judges the environment and he fits in with it. If Trump can get reelected and pursue a truly nationalistic agenda in America, I think Johnson will follow that lead. But the thing is with Trump, Trump is a miracle! He came from nowhere! The globalist had taken over America. I mean, John Brennan and Comey, the head of the CIA, and FBI. John Brennan was a communist, an Islamic convert. I mean, Comey is just a liberal Lefty. And the Left had taken over the media in America. It was taking over the State, it was taking over a lot of the State governments, it was controlling Congress. It looked like America was lost!

 

[72:01]

 

I remember Jonathan Bowden said:

“America was gonna go down first and we’ll follow!”

 

But Trump came from nowhere and he mobilized the American patriotic spirit! And he’s faced horrendous opposition! I mean, judicial opposition initially. Everything he tried to do was blocked in the courts. He had to get the Supreme Court appointments, which enabled them to free up a lot of his movements. And then, of course, he lost the House of Representatives in the midterms, which thwarted a lot of his economic agenda.

 

But he got a big tax cut through. The wall is being built. I don’t know how much of it as being built! I don’t know how much of it is being built but it certainly is being built. He has certainly cut down massively on immigration into America. I mean, it was when these big trains going up through Mexico, in managed to tear them back. It’s almost miraculous! But he’s changed the culture of America’s! He polarized America!

 

And he’s mobilized the patriots to fight back against the Left. They were demoralized, the patriots. He mobilized them and he’s built up this alternative media. And there’s a big body of people now in America, he’s got maybe 60, 65 million people in the Trump train, who are ready to fight for America, and a patriots in America, against the Left. And it’s the first time in decades that the Left has really been put on the back foot. So given the opposition that he faced, I’m really impressed with what Trump achieved.

 

Simon: I would say, but he hasn’t turned around the demographics! The demographics are, you know, the original, or the original colonists, the White European colonists of America have been given a little bit of leeway, perhaps a little bit of extra time, but ultimately America is going to fall. This has got to be turned around. The person that we had on last week Gavin Boby, one of the expressions that I’ve always learned from him regarding immigration and demographics, he always used to sayc, or I think he still does say:

“Slow the tide, stop the tide, turn the tide!”

 

And really with this issue — I don’t know if you were aware — but here in Britain in 2066 the indigenous Britons are no longer going to be a majority in this country. Now these things have significant effects on the culture.

 

[74:23]

 

Paul: I think it’s going to be long before 2066! I think we’ve got, at the most, 15 years, realistically. Because the under forties group, it’s almost 25 percent now. I mean, what gives us this big advantage demographically, is the over 70s but the over 70s are going to die off very quickly.

 

And yeah Trump, … I like that expression of stopping and slowing down and turning around, because we were in a ship that was going the wrong way, we’re heading to the rocks, we were heading for national disaster! And these people at the top — the Merkels, the Clintons — this is exactly what they wanted, which is really disturbing!

 

But Trump got control of the ship, become the pilot, and he’s slowed it down as it’s heading to the rocks. And I think he started to turn around. It’s a process, it’s gonna take time. But I think Trump’s heart in the right place.

 

Trump has not come from a globalist perspective. He was in the Reform Party with Ross Perot. He’s always been on the fringe of American politics. Trump’s father was accused to be in a member of the Ku Klux Klan and Trump was a huge admirer of his father. I think Trump’s heart is much more aligned and nationalist than people actually give him credit. Dont know if you agree with that?

 

Simon: Yeah, Horus? Sorry I was switching my mic on. Any thoughts on this? I’m much less optimistic about Trump. I think Trump is a good optics. Trump looks good but, you know, he had John Bolton in his, … He’s controlled! He’s not free to act. His heart might be in the right place, but I’ve not seen enough action. I’m sorry Paul. Horus. What do you think?

 

[76:17]

 

Horus: I like Paul’s optimism. I would love to see Trump do radical, sort of deep state, swamp draining in the second term. But yeah, it doesn’t seem at all likely to me. My impression is that Trump is maybe completely compromised by Israel. I’m not sure, but maybe via Epstein? Epstein. I’m not sure. Like the zionist control of the US to me, just seems almost total! And I reckon Trump might be just one of their instruments. Maybe almost every President candidate is? I’m not sure.

 

Paul: I think Trump’s boxing very clever with the jewish lobby in America! Because he’s split them. I mean, 80% of the jews vote Democrat, and the left-leaning, the ultra globalist. But there is 20% of them there that are conservative leaning. And he’s managed to bring them on board. Because if Trump had gone totally against the jewish lobby he would have been totally destroyed.

 

I mean, when Obama was re-elected in 2012, the jews in America was saying:

 

“We’ve taken over America! We’re the ruling elite now!”

 

They were actually saying that explicitly. So when Trump won and threw Clinton off in 2016, they were very annoyed about that. And they had the power to bring Trump down

 

He had to win a slice of their support, and he managed to do that. And the way he’s done it is linking up with Likud and the ultra zionists in Israel. But and putting them against the Liberals in America.

 

Don’t forget the people who are really opposing Trump — Soros, Schumer, Shiff, [word unclear] — they’re all New York jews, you know. They’re all incredibly wealthy people on Wall Street. And they’ve got a heck of a lot of clout!

 

[78:02]

 

So to counteract that, he’s had to bring other jews on board who will defend him. But what really matters to me about Trump is that he is coming in from the West to save Europe. From the East we got Vladamir Putin. And I see Trump and Putin as very, almost like coworkers in throwing off the globalist control of the world. Because Putin, he’s so important to us, because he’s re-Christianized Russia, and he’s revived Russian nationalism, and he’s revived traditionalism in Russia. Russia has got no toleration of the homosexual agenda, they’re stopping abortions now in Russia. Starting to see an increase in the birthrate in Russia for the first time in a long time.

 

And this is what we need. And this has fed into Poland. It’s fed into Hungary. So it’s coming in from the East. Trump from the West. And we’re seeing the emergence of all these nationalist figures in Europe like Salvini, Thierry Baudet in the Netherlands. Vlaams Belang in Belgium, you know, Santiago Pascal in Spain. Marine Le Pen is going in France.

 

And so there’s hope! There’s hope! These figures are emerging, and they’re very significant figures. And they’re there and at every point they can challenge the globalists. And we need this international wave, we need this international alliance of nationalists! I mean, you can go extra-Europe, you can go to Abe in Japan, you can go to Duarte in the Philippines. And, of course, very importantly Modi in India! The Indian nationalists, especially in the fight back against Islam.

 

And there’s a new dialectic in the world now. It used to be Left against Right, freedom against communism. Now it’s nationalism against globalism!

 

And we’re not coming from a position of weakness. We might be doing so in Britain, itself, although we hope it can come back and change. But globally the nationalist forces are becoming stronger and stronger!

 

And so we can be optimistic that we can actually win this battle! And that’s really since 2016, since Trump’s election. And I think we can feel that. We can actually overcome globalism!

 

[80:11]

 

Horus: Which side is Jerusalem on?

 

Paul: Jerusalem is always on all sides! [chuckling] [words unclear] there’s a [word unclear] in both camps. [loud laughter]

 

Simon: Yeah I mean, I think we’re quite optimistic about the future, Horus and I. We’re not directly involved, but we’re kind of loosely associated with Patrick Alternative. And I particularly think that after the last election through the “Red wall” voting Tory leaves a massive opening for nationalists, because that these aren’t loyal Tory voters.

 

We need to have a nationalist party with a working class ethic that will appeal to people who are patriotic and socially conservative. But also want their concerns dealt with. You know, they want hospitals, they want a decent welfare system. And I think their concerns about the demographics, and things like rape gangs, being taken very seriously. So we’re faced with a massive opportunity now. Which I think to a certain extent has been delayed by Brexit.

 

I don’t think anybody could think about anything else. Unfortunately now we’ve got the coronavirus. But, assuming Brexit does happen, the fact that Brexit has happened it gives normal politics a chance to kick back in. And it’s an opening for the various nationalist, populist, and patriotic groups that existed in Britain today.

 

[82:00]

 

Paul: I think we’ve got to make immigration, the big issue now. And then the consequences of what immigration, … We need to bring up this notion of we’re being replaced. Our cities are being altered out of all recognition. And we are in danger here! It’s happening far too quickly. And since 1997, we’ve allowed 10 million immigrants into Britain! And that’s a threat to our very existence! It’s an existential threat here!

 

This is [word unclear] of Britain. And we’ve got to rally people around that point. I mean, the hope was that the Conservatives were pickle this issue of immigration, and run with it and start to take action. But they were dragging the feet even before the coronavirus. They were talking good, but they actually done very little! And we’ve got to apply pressure! We’ve got to seize political power, or apply pressure on the Conservatives to stop immigration. Because we’ve got control of our borders again, this what leaving the European Union was all about. It was all about immigration! I know sovereignty is an important issue, but it was people who realized that we were being overrun.

 

And there is a constituency out there. That is the seventeen and a half million people who voted to leave! The old Labour constituencies which have turned to the Conservatives, the White working-class, know that the Labour Party doesn’t want to represent them! The Labour Party’s become the party of the fringes, the margins, the immigrants, the public sector. And there’s a massive opening there! There’s a gap! There’s a big gap in the political life of Britain that needs to be filled.

 

Horus: With Brexit it was very, very, annoying that it took three and a half years to actually get done. And we’re still not properly, until the end of this year and then possibly some extension of that, but once we are fully out of Brexit that excuse for the Tories is now stripped away, and they are exposed! It is then clearly them who are replacing us with Somalians, and Afghans, and so on! And they will have no excuse anymore.

 

[84:01]

 

So, I agree with what you said. Like we’ve gotta get immigration and demographics on the agenda. And in my opinion the key thing along with that is to emphasize that it is the Tories doing it. Because I think our hope lies in essentially destroying —. And this is just a monumental task — but destroying the Tory Party!

 

And one good thing is that with Corbyn gone, it’s harder for Tory voters to sort of excuse themselves from switching away from the Tories, because they feel they betrayed them, by threatening themselves, or the rest of us with Corbyn. Because Keir Starmer is simply a less frightening figure. I mean, it’s still bloody awful, but like Corbyn was like a bogey figure! They could tell themselves:

 

“Now is not the time to switch away from the Tories, because I risk a Corbyn government.”

 

But whereas a Keir Starmer government sounds so much more moderate, whether it is, or not, fuck knows!

 

Paul: For me, Labor’s got off the edge of the cliff now! It’s totally anti British, anti-White, anti-Christian. I mean, it’s brought into this “woke” agenda completely! It’s not interested in the ordinary people of Britain anymore. And, because of that, for me, it’s no longer relevant in the situation.

 

Now the Tory party itself, is a very cagey institution. And it’s all about power! The Conservatives is the oldest political party in the world. It’s being in power most imposed of our last 200 years. And what they doing in the Tories, it’s very clever. They’re splitting the immigrants, bringing the Hindus on board, they’re bringing the jews on board, they’re bringing the Chinese on board. And they’re making the sort of Muslims, and the black inner cities, the black working class, they’re making them Labour’s constituency. And that’s how Boris got elected in Uxbridge. And that’s how they’re working this whole sort of demographic change now. And so, they’re always clever the Conservatives. They always know how to manipulate the situation.

 

[86:09]

 

But if we want Britain to survive, and for the true British people, the ethnic British, to prosper in the future, that’s an agenda that we can buy into. We need the British, the ethnic British have a voice again in this country. This is what’s really tragic is that, certainly since Blair, the only time we’ve ever really had a voice is through the BNP. A little bit under UKIP. But we’re almost excluded from the political process, the ethnic British. And we need to rebel against this! We can’t accept I! Because it will lead to disaster!

 

Simon: Yes, precisely. Sorry Horus.

 

Horus: It’s just gonna take serious, determined, organization, and a lot of intelligence, some luck, and a lot of [word unclear]. Yeah, like what you said before they’re gonna use all the legal means, you know, lawfare and stuff. Our movement is gonna need lawyers, apart from anything else.

 

And I had a conversation with a guy from Manchester, called Phil. It’s on my channel if anyone wants to watch it. And one thing that came out of that conversation, we agreed that, yeah, we’re taking on the state, not just, you know, political parties!

 

And I think attacking this state, has to be a part of our strategy. Taking legal action against them, wherever we can. Because one good thing is that I’ve seen two YouTube channels recently, just in the last couple of weeks, saying, they are going to do exactly that. One’s called Crime Bodge. I don’t think he’s a political guy, I don’t know, he’s always going on about police corruption, police malpractice.

 

He says he’s gonna start taking legal action against police in Rotherham over the rape scandal. It’s very encouraging and I would encourage people to check that out. Another one’s called Not-So-Obvious. He’s making some big documentary, or series, about the rape gangs, trying to bring all the information together. And this is all about just saying:

“Well we don’t care whether it’s Labour, or whatever, it’s about whoever is allowing these networks of foreign men of rape British children!”

 

The people allowing that are criminals themselves! And they have to be taken down! And I see some sort of increasing focus and determination on, you know, [words unclear] we are responsible for this, we’re gonna get them! And I think that’s really encouraging, and to be encouraged as well! So I like that.

 

[88:44]

 

Simon: Okay, let’s do a few questions and superchats. We’ve only got one superchat so far tonight. It’s from the fantastic Thin Red Line, who sends ten US dollars and says:

“Great stream very interesting! Paul Rimmer, …”

 

This is a slightly tongue it tongue in cheek question for Paul, but it takes us into interesting territory. The Thin Red Line asks:

 

“Paul Rimmer, will you join Patriotic Alternative?”

 

Paul: I believe we need nationalist unity in Britain, I mean, there’s a heck of a lot of talent out there. I mean, Horus has just talked about legal minds. But it needs a leader! Someone’s got to emerge to lead the nationalist movement. Mark Collett’s a very charismatic guy. He’s very intelligent. He’s very capable. If he could just drop his baggage, or turn against, it he could be a very effective leader.

 

Paul Golding is an immensely capable political activist! He can make things happen! He could be an effective leader. Again, he’s got problems, because he’s a got a criminal record. The state has persecuted him for so long.

 

But I almost go back to Enoch Powell. Enoch Powell came out of the establishment and created the earthquake. I mean, in 1968 80% of the British people backed Powell. They backed Enoch Powell. But he didn’t have a political party to take power.

 

[90:14]

 

When Boris Johnson came out to the establishment and fought for Brexit, it was successful. It’s sort of, I’ve got to believe that there’s somebody there in that mix, in that establishment who is a genuine patriot! A genuine nationalist who wants to preserve the British nation. Who wants the British people to survive. And we’ve got to hope that somebody does emerge as a leader. And the Patriotic Alternative, I mean, Ralph is a fantastic guy! He’s very inspirational. And he’s got great insight. And I’m learning a lot from Ralph from studying his ideas.

 

And the Patriotic Alternative is going places, it’s dynamic! But it needs to fit in with the nationalist wave, internationally, because you should be inspired by what’s happening across Europe and across the world with the nationalist movements. This is our hope. We get inspiration from that. And we get resources from that as well, and support. So I think we can be optimistic. And the Patriotic Alternative is part of the nationalist sort of resurgence in this country. Why not join it?

 

Simon: Yeah. I think what’s important is that we don’t counter signal each other. I know you’re pretty close to Britain, First. I’ll put this up on the screen now just to emphasize the point that you’ll be speaking along with Paul Golding and Tommy Robinson. Who we might touch on the issue of Tommy Robinson, who we tend to be more critical of but the good thing about Paul Golding is he doesn’t counter signal.

 

[91:55]

 

And yeah, both Horus and I are close to the Patriotic Alternative group, part of the general group. But one of our interests in speaking to you Paul is precisely this. That I felt that you would be the kind of person with whom we can build these kind of bridges. We need to be building bridges between these different groups, because we can’t be running around calling each other fascists, and Nazis, as we’ve been called recently. Because, you know, that’s behaving like the Left in our opinion.

 

Paul: We will all be called fascists, and Nazis, by the Left, anyway. Doesn’t mean, you know, it doesn’t matter if you are the real McCoy, or you are just an impersonator, or you are just a patriot, they will use these negative terms against you. But I think they’ll losing their power, their potency. Nazism’s a long time ago! Second World War finished in 1945.

 

For me, it belongs to history, you know, it’s like Cromwell and Napoleon. It’s from the past. And we’ve got to look forward! We’ve got to save our country, for our future generations! And this is what Ralph keeps emphasizing. We’ve got to look to the future now and see the opportunities ahead. Let go of the past and focus on what we can do to save this nation.

 

Simon: Yeah, the problem is that some of the groups. And this is why I retain my admiration. I think Paul’s style is a little bit different from ours, because he’s often quite confrontational, which is probably the reason why well he gets into trouble, so often. But and Marie waters, for example, recently made a video basically telling lies! Saying that we’re racists. Using using words like “Nazi”, and that we want to round all black and brown people up and throw them out of the country.

 

[94:03]

 

Which is a million miles from the truth! And I’m sorry for putting you on the spot here. But obviously I’ve done my research and I’ve seen that you’ve kind of given your support, or certainly did a video at a meeting with Anne Marie. And I find this kind of behavior, speaking honestly, reprehensible, because it’s not getting us anywhere really.

 

Paul: Well I’ve always regarded Anne Marie as an incredibly courageous woman! And I think her position on Islam is very strong. But I’ve actually pushed this said:

 

“What’s your ideology? You’ve come out of the Labour party, you’re anti-Islam, what’s your ideas for the future of Britain?”

 

And she won’t commit herself to anything. And I was very disappointed the way she attacked Patriotic Alternative, the language which she used, homophobic, misogynistic, fascist, racist! It was a tick list from the Social Justice Warriors! And that sort of exposed the heart of it. I was very disappointed in that.

 

I mean, there’s great people in For Britain. I mean, Eddie Butler was there, a lot of exBNP people. We need really to be part of the nationalist coalition to change this country round.

 

I mean For Britain, they’re using the electoral road, and they’re trying to create a shield, so they can’t be attacked. But I was really disappointed when she said those things. I just thought:

 

“No, I can’t buy that, I don’t go along with that. I’m sorry.”

 

That’s not the language I would use. That’s the language of the Left. That’s destructive! That’s negative! That is how the Left operates. It’s all about negativity and destruction.

 

We’ve got to recognize positives in all situations. We’ve got to see Patriotic Alternative, there’s a lot of very genuine, very worthwhile people in it. You can offer hope to this country.

 

Simon: Well this is what we think we are. [chuckling]

 

[96:02]

 

Horus: This should probably go for all nationalists, like ninety, ninety-five percent of our time should be spent fighting our real enemies, our mutual enemies. And there are occasions when you’re gonna need to stand up for your movement, because you’ve been attacked by another one. And that Anne Marie Waters attack on PA the other week was one [words unclear] not that significant in my opinion. I mean, it’s just, because For Britain, you know, it’s not that big a deal. And also that actually I think gained us some supporters from For Britain as well. But the other incident was when Tommy Robinson’s channel last summer, just unprovoked, made a really vicious attack on Shazia Hobbs, Dionne Moller and Mark Collett.

 

And that triggered off a huge surge of people moving from sort of the general Counter Jihad perspective into proper ethnic nationalism. Which videos I’ve made since then have all been in designed to encourage. And I would just say, yeah on those occasions you’ve got to make clear right that we disagree with you there, and we’re not standing for that.

 

But, I think among PA guysc like some of us, you know, in recent months have got overly focused on the groups just adjacent to us in ideological terms. And like we spent so much time just trying to destroy every little remnant of idiocy among them. Mostly our fight should be against the people actually bringing in foreigners into the country. Which, you know, is not to be blamed on Tommy Robinson, or Britain, First. That’s being done by the politicians and by this civil service, and so on. So I’d say if we’re spending more than five percent of our time attacking other patriot nationalists type people, we’re getting it wrong, I think. There’s a small call for it, but that is about all.

 

[98:09]

 

Simon: Yeah, I totally agree.

 

Paul: We need to campaign to win elections. We need an organization which is ready to fight elections and which can sort of persuade the British people that we are there to represent them. And get the British people involved in that organization. I mean, Britain, First has been thwarted a lot, because of the legal position. They’re not allowed to stand candidates at the moment, they’re trying to overcome that. But we need a political force.

 

And For Britain to their creditor, they’re the only people that are actually fighting elections from any sort of patriotic perspective. And we desperately need to fight elections, because then you do look outwards. Then you do connect with the people and you start to address people’s hearts. And realize we can’t be ahead of the British people, we’ve got to bring them with us, you know, in this crusade to save our nation.

 

Now Tommy Robinson is a folk hero in this country! I mean, he’s an incredibly brave guy. He’s been in prison. He’s been attacked and he stayed the course. He’s fought back! Now politically, he tried to get elected for the Northwest, he failed there. He needs to connect with a political party. Because he needs to have a real political ideology, and not just a Counter Jihad approach. So, maybe he is a work in progress, or maybe he’s not, but only time will tell.

 

Simon: Okay. Let me just do a few more, more superchats have come in this is great. Let’s have a look. We’ve got Jay Radio who says:

 

“Great show guys! Great to see discussion and cooperation. Collectivise to survive!”

 

Yes, we agree mate. And Steve Ben Bob, another three US dollars. And thanks very much Steve Ben Bob. Another regular contributor, says:

 

“Important discussion tonight we need more of them.”

 

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. And we need to be reaching out. And I really agree with what Horus has just said.

 

We need to be building bridges, and we need to identify who the real, .., or we need to be fighting against who the real enemy is! Which is primarily the Left and Islam. We can talk about this in broader terms and broader strategies, but the enemy is pretty visible. And we really ought not to be bickering amongst ourselves.

 

Horus: And find Eric Pickles as well! [laughter].

 

I was on them I was on a stream with Laura Towler the other night — Hail Laura! And I said on that, whatever differences I’ve got with For Britain, … I mean, I don’t share their zionist support for Israel and stuff, you know, things like that. But all the same, if the next election comes around that I see, you know, fifty For Britain counselors have been elected, I’ll be delighted! Because that’s still progress! That’s still good. So I still see them as sort of brothers in the cause, really. We just got differences. But. We really need to spend very little time on the differences, right? Because we’re the task we face is so monumental anyway!

 

Paul: There’s so much great talent in the nationalist movement. If we pool our resources and get properly organized, and get a decent leader — it’s all big “ifs”, like. But if that happens, we could really impact this country again like we did during the BNP years.

 

I mean, we haven’t mentioned Nick Griffin tonight. He’s an interesting character in the background.