[Simon Harris and Horus talk with long-time political activist Paul Rimmer about the state of nationalism in Britain. Paul talks about his political journey, his involvement with the BNP and what needs to be done to save Britain from the looming demographic disaster.
Contributors, so far: Simon
European Freedom #23
Is Populism and Patriotism Enough?
May 5, 2020
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Published on May 5, 2020
EF #23: Is Populism and Patriotism Enough? with Paul Rimmer
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Simon: Okay. Hello everyone. And welcome to European Freedom livestream number 23! And I’ve called this one “Is Populism and Patriotism Enough”. And we’ve got a really great guest tonight. Veteran activist Paul Rimmer. So we’ve got a really good show ahead of us. But before I introduce Paul, I’m gonna talk to my mate it’s Horus. How’s it going?
Horus: Good thanks Simon. Yeah it’s lovely and sunny here, but it’s a cold wind. Yeah I had a nice big satisfying dinner. I’m doing all right. How are you doing?
Simon: I’m doing okay. Did you have a Viennetta for pudding?
Horus: [laughter] No just a bit of chocolate.
Simon: Or it’s just special?
Horus: No we had one on Sunday [laughter] actually.
Simon: I had strawberries and very, very classic vanilla ice cream. So I’m doing okay really. Okay I have to ask you the eternal question. What’s the state of the video? It’s been about six weeks since the last video mate!
Horus: No more. Yeah I recorded another part to it the other day and I’m gonna record another one tomorrow as well. So it’s gonna be six parts. And then I’ve still got to edit a lot of it as well. So I don’t know. Still not ready.
Simon: Months and months!
Horus: Yeah, sorry. I did a live stream with Haryan Gláeddyv [Silver Sword] on Saturday though. If people wanna watch something on my channel, check out my channel for that.
Simon: Okay great! Okay now we’ve got to introduce our fantastic guest, who is Paul Rimmer, who’s a veteran activist. I use this in the broadest sense there, the word, because we’re gonna talk about a bit about his political history. And he and I have been chatting. Well not chatting really kind of interacting mainly through the comments section of my videos for about 6 months, or so. Haven’t we Paul?
Simon: And I’ve heard of you before that from EDL [02:02] activist Johnny Banks, who I’ve been friends with for years. And, in fact, I streamed with him about three years ago. And I should have should sense of a message today’s to say that you were on. He’ll probably be annoyed with me now. But I suppose really. And this is my introduction to you. I think we’re gonna discover over the course of this conversation some differences in our points of view.
But I think immediately, or certainly I felt, I was really pleased to see you in the comments, because I’ve heard of you. And I think we’ve kind of hit it off immediately. And I suppose what I want to get out of this conversation is that nationalist, Patriots, we’re all in this together and should be moving more, or less in the Right in the same direction. I don’t know why what you think about that mate?
Paul: Absolutely! Yeah, I think unity is the key really. I mean, we’ve all got the same purpose which is to save our nations. But we need to come together to achieve that. If we don’t come together we fight it as small groups and individuals it’s just self effort. It will get nowhere. But if we have purpose but no unity, it will all just be self-indulgence. We’ve got to come together and sort of pool our resources, because we’ve got one heck of a fight going on!
Simon: Yeah definitely. Because really we’re in the state of its “make-or-break” isn’t it? We’re fighting for survival in the West here. We’re approaching a very crucial moment in our history.
Paul: I think we’re in desperate times to be honest. The scale of immigration, and the collapse of our own demographic sort of reproduction is frightening! I mean, this is going to augment massive changes over the next two decades. And if we don’t wake up we’re just going to be pushed aside! And we’ll be, you know, consigned to the [04:00] rubbish bin of history.
Simon: Yeah definitely. I suppose the point, the place I wanted to start with really was how you and I kind of got to know each other. You started commenting on my videos back in October, when the whole thing in Catalonia kicked off.
And I suppose what we could establish first is the similarities in our positions. I slowly came to the conclusion that’s Catalan nationalism the Catalan independence movement is its false nationalism. It’s globalism, international Socialism, you know, masquerading as nationalism really.
Yeah, how do you view for Spain from Liverpool? I’ve heard you talk quite a lot about the Vox party. But how do you view the situation in Catalonia?
Paul: It’s a bit like Scotland really. It’s these sort of micro nationalisms. These sort of fracturing nationalisms, which want to attack the established nation-states. And they’ve taken on this, … Being sort of infiltrated by Marxists I would say. Who’ve managed to get themselves at the head of these pseudo nationalist movements and have pulled them dramatically to the Left!
So although they seem to be using terms like National Party, or calling for national autonomy they are, in fact, destroying the areas that they’ve taking power over! So it’s quite deceptive really what they’re doing!
Simon: Isn’t it interesting that lots of these nationalists, we talk about this quite often, because obviously I’m in Catalonia. But the SNP, Catalonia, Plaid Cymru to a certain extent, Sein Fein in Ireland, as well. And even in Quebec. All these kind of false nationalisms end up selling out to the whole multiculturalism, diversity, [06:01], or what we call the “Globohomo” agenda. Have you got any theories as to why this is? I personally think they’re designed to be this way.
Paul: I think they buy into a grievance politics. And they make themselves out as victims, and they develop this false narrative where they’ve been abused throughout history. And they’re still being abused today. And it’s not true! I mean, Scotland was a partner with England to create the British Empire!
Catalonia has always been the most prosperous region of Spain, and the most privileged region of Spain! But they seem to want to present themselves as the victims of some big bully. And it’s a fiction. And in order to maintain that fiction they go further and further to the Left. And for me it’s absurdity!
But! There’s money in it! This is the thing, these activists these left-wing nationalist activist, they’re getting control of institutions they’re getting control of government organizations, and they’re raking in the money! And there’s a built-in incentive to keep it going. Even though I’m not quite sure what they want, at the end of the day, because do they really want to fracture these very successful nations? I mean, that would be disastrous!
Simon: I mean, I don’t know what you think about it, Horus go ahead.
Horus: Now you’ve mentioned before Simon the Open Society Foundation got involved in the Catalan struggle as well. Is that right?
Simon: Yeah, because Open Society Foundation is very, the whole Soros thing is deeply embedded here. Soros hasn’t got offices in every city, but he’s got offices in Barcelona. The reason why, I mean, I think everybody on the stream knows that I was kind of heavily involved in the independence movement.
And I used to have a show on in English radio in Catalonia. And we got head hunted by Catalan national radio to do a show for them. And it would have been, we started [08:02] to move in the highest circles of Catalan left-wing independence politics. And there were Soros types everywhere. There’s a kind of foreign office, kind of Catalan foreign office called Diplocat [The Public Diplomacy Council of Catalonia]. I think three of the people that work there, three out of the seven people that work there also work for Soros. There’s also a think tank called CIDOB, where the people that work there works on government policy. Where the people that work there move between open societies foundations. So they’re completely embedded. Catalonia really is a color revolution, completely!
Horus: And that’s where money becomes a factor for the activists, like Paul said as well, right? I mean, Soros is a sort of a fountain of money isn’t he?
Simon: Yeah. And also what’s very unfortunate is the useful idiots. I spent a lot of time with useful idiots, who actually believed in globalism! They actually are firmly committed to the destruction of their own culture, their own country. They want to break away from Spain and fill it with migrants!
Okay, before I stop, I’m gonna add one more thing. You’ve probably heard of “Open Arms” the group that saves refugees, or fake refugees. Well they’re based just outside Barcelona.
And it’s stop and think about. If it’s got “open” at the start of its name, it’s probably funded by Soros. And this is totally funded by Soros. Open society foundation, Open Arms, Open Democracy is another of his groups. And, you know, they’re, the normal Catalans, who I love, many of whom are my friends have bought into this “let’s flood our land with refugees”! [10:00] a bit like Plaid Cymru [The Party of Wales] wanting to turn Wales into the most accepting part of the world for accepting refugees! Catalonia is very much the same, it’s so depressing.
Paul: It just shows how false the whole narrative is. Because there they are to preserve Welsh traditions, and Welsh culture. And they want to flood it with people who have no connection with Welsh culture whatsoever! But Soros has got to be the most sinister character since Joseph Stalin! I mean, Stalin created the Third International and it was a huge network around the globe manipulating the Communist agenda, imposed it on nation’s.
And Soros seems to have this vast network, because he’s accumulated so much wealth through the financial system. Incredible amount of wealth! He’s just buying in people and he’s obviously totally committed to this agenda of destroying the Western nations! Destroying Christendom! And it’s very sinister!
Horus: I always wonder with us of the Left wing nationalists, like those Plaid, like those in the Catalan movement, and the SNP. Like do they ask themselves, or each other, do they ever try and answer:
“Why is it that we’re supported by one of the very richest men in the whole world?”
Like how does that fit with left-wing politics? Like do they never, does that not trouble them?
Paul: I think it’s all bogus! Beginning to end! It is about enriching and empowering themselves. And they are buying into the agenda that brings that forth.. I don’t think ideologically that actually they are that deep. I mean, they’ll probably switch horses very quickly if anything went wrong. But they seem to have did the media on their side. And the political establishment on their side. And therefore, like the globalist they’ll just into this game of constant manipulation of the public. Constantly deceiving the public!
Horus: So for most than the you reckon it’s mostly a case of just getting on a massive gravy train?
Horus: Well, I can’t see any other reason for it.
Simon: I’m gonna have to disagree with you Paul. I mean, certainly Esquerra Republicana [(Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya (Catalan Republican Left) are the SNP of Catalonia)]. But when I was doing this radio show I had the chance to interview most of the bigwigs in the party. And a lot of people that founded the Assamblea Nacional Catalana [pro-independence Catalan National Assembly] which is the kind of the Catalan civil organized organizing group for the independence movements. They’re the ones that organize all the marches. The Esquerra Republicana’s Foreign Minister who I got to know pretty well. I was involved in various groups with him. Interviewed him twice. Went out for drinks with him on a number of occasions. I think, yeah he did African Studies, and he’s just a fan of Africa!
You start talking to him, he knows his Catalan history, but he wants to turn it into Africa! The brother of the founder of the ANC, which is the Assemblée Nationale Catalana. He’s got two black African adopted sons, or at least one.
And you kind of talk to these people and most of them have really bought, have really bought into it! It’s utterly and completely disturbing! And I think they sincerely, or perhaps not all of them. The right-wing party is a lot more cynical. I think they want the money. But the Lefties actually believe this BS! I found it really, I used to come home from doing this show, and say to the missus,:
“You know, I’ve got to stop doing this! I can’t be around these people anymore!”
Because the terrible thing is, they thought I was one of them! That I’d spent a year with them completely under cover! So they’d kind of let all this stuff out in private. And yeah I have to disagree with you Paul.
Paul: Well what I would say Simon with that, is that these people hold this ideology, this globalist ideology, one-world ideology, bringing the whole human race together. They hold it almost like a religion. It’s their sort of, it gives their life meaning. And it’s their purpose in the world to break down all barriers between people. We all live in this supposed harmony, where all that created order is actually cast aside! But! There is a different reality which shows when they send their children to school.
And I’ve noticed this with a lot of left-wing people in England. They won’t send their children to school with the ethnic minorities! They insist on sending their children to school, posh English schools! And that shows you their heart really is. But, of course, that doesn’t pay for them. I mean, I know so many left-wing people who have lived in multicultural, multi-ethnic, areas.
Once they’ve had children and the children reach school age, they move out these areas into an exclusive sort of White, English, middle-class areas. And that’s, because, that’s where they really feel comfortable. But their earnings come from buying into the multicultural agenda. So I think they’re very schizophrenic in that sense. But the reality is the heart is against multiculturalism, even though they’re making a fortune out of it.
Horus: I think it can partly explained as well in terms of class, right? Like obviously we don’t have the same classes that Marx described, and there’s not simply a world, you know, like as leftists, like international leftists, there’s not simply a world working class, a world bourgeoisie, or whatever. But I think there is perhaps, or has been forming for some decades now, like a world cosmopolitan class where, yeah, like anti-racism and anti-nationalism, is probably the binding ideology of like what is a global class that exists across most of the nations of the world. And these people sort of like get assumed into it, assumes upwards, socially into this cosmopolitan class. That just sort of glides across the top of the world like cream, you know, and that’s how I see these people.
And obviously is greased very much like lubricated by money that comes from people like Soros, probably Bill Gates and people like that as well. And Bono [chuckling] and the anti-nationalism is the binding ideology of that class. They might not all really believe in it, but they all go along with it, because it serves to bind their class together. And what you said about the schools, Paul, I can imagine, yeah they go to schools that are mostly White. But there will also be the odd, very wealthy, Nigerian, with a very wealthy Indian, or something. They’re like this son of an Indian billionaire. So they will have multiculturalism to that degree, but it’ll be with other wealthy globalist, you know, cosmopolitan types.
Paul: I think that’s the higher echelon to the globalism, you know. People who can move around the world who are really at the top of these institutions. But, of course, globalism that has this huge constituency below that. Which goes right down to primary school teachers, and people working in hospitals, and so on.
Paul: Especially public sector unions, liberal professionals. And it’s they’re sort of slightly working-class, a lot of them. Just upper working class. And even amongst them you see this discrimination when it comes to their children in terms of education. They don’t want their children educated with the ethnic minorities! Shows what their heart is.
Horus: Yeah. And for those of us who remain in the normal in the working-class in the older sense, [18:02] there are some of the most repulsive people, because they’re really close to the action! They know what harm they’re causing, and they still serve this kind of ruling class. Because they hope to be, to sort of ascend up, up towards it, I think.
Paul: And their treason is blatant as well! I mean, you know, they’ll fly the Palestinian flag, but they won’t touch the Union Flag! You know, they want to ally with anybody who’s anti-British, or anti-White, or anti-Christian. They despise Christianity, that is another aspect of it.
Simon: Did you see all those Liberal Democrats celebrating Ramadan the other day? [chuckling] What a pathetic bunch! I found us this guy on Twitter the other day, had got up early in the morning to have breakfast. And he was gonna spend the rest of the day celebrating Ramadan. But significantly these people hadn’t celebrated St. George’s day, so their kindness is utterly and completely misplaced!
Paul: And their sincerity is really bogus as well, because, before they’ll celebrate Ramadan, they’ll go on a gay pride march and celebrate, you know, sexual perversity! So I mean, it doesn’t mean that. They’re just plugging in to people they regard as their constituency. There’s no real loyalty to any of this! It’s just absurd! The Liberal Democrats, I mean, they’re playing this sexual politics game now. You know, their leader, I think that one of the women who sort of campaigned to be leader the Liberal Democrats, she described herself as “pansexual”!
Horus: Layla Moron, isn’t it?
Paul: Yeah [chuckling] ten years ago that would have been totally absurd! But now that that plays well amongst the Liberal Democrats. There totally lost people.
Horus: I wonder, like if they actually, do they not realize that almost all Muslims will laugh at them for doing this! Right? It’s not something that actually earns the respect, or the affection, of Muslims. I don’t think so at all. It’s bizarre!
Simon: But Muslims are noble savages as far as they’re concerned! [loud laughter] Muslims can have no evil thoughts! Please bear in mind it is a religion of peace, isn’t it!
Paul: Well I think if the Muslims appreciate the key elements of it. It’s false! It’s false adulation of Islam. But it helps them in advancing, you know, the dar al-Islam, their control of this country. So they’ll appreciate that.
Horus: I’m sure they welcome it, because, yeah, it increases their power. But I imagine their feelings about it are contemptuous.
Paul: We’re all dhimmis* aren’t we to them. So I mean, these are just showing that they’ve accepted this dhimmi status of inferiority and they’ll bow the knee at a Muslim festival.
[* Dhimmi refers to specific individuals living in Muslim lands, who were granted special status and safety in Islamic law in return for paying the capital tax.]
Horus: We will start seeing them convert as well. That can happen to a lot of White leftists. There’ll be a certain tipping point where a load of them will just convert all at once.
Paul: And they put the burqa* on.
[* Burqa — The terms niqab and burqa are often conflated; a niqab covers the face while leaving the eyes uncovered, while a burqa covers the entire body from the top of the head to the ground, with only a mesh screen allowing the wearer to see in front of her. The burqa is also not to be confused with the hijab, a garment which covers the hair, neck and all or part of the chest, but not the face. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa]
Horus: Yeah, all sorts. Well they’ll probably wear like a rainbow burqa, at first, or something. But they will slide towards just basically worshiping the Saudi version eventually.
Paul: Well, what’s got me about Keir Starmer when he first became Labour Party leader, he made a big speech about the Labour Party’s got to win back — who have they got to win back? The White working-class. They lost seats, they lost seats in White working-class areas to Conservatives. Now they’ve got to win back the Hindu vote! The Indian vote! And they sort of see themselves now as the party of the ethnic minorities! It’s almost as if they’ve sort of totally now ditched the working-class, the indigenous people of this country. They don’t really want to touch it. And the Liberal Democrat are the same.
Simon: Well, they completely have, haven’t they. And to continue talking about these kind of people, they must live in a world of complete cognitive dissonance, because of all the parts of the kind of progressive stack are mutually inconsistent with each other.
And I don’t know if you’ve seen the message. There’s a group in our circles called “The Hundred Handers“. A fantastic group who put out leaflets all over the country. And when you read in the papers about “White supremacist hate leaflets” being put in the city, it’s a group of our friends. But one are their leaflets is:
“Islam is right about women.”
Which completely shows the cognitive dissonance that they must be feeling.
Paul: Islam is right about homosexuality!
Simon: [chuckling] It’s exactly the same! But I was reading the other day — I can’t remember the exact quote — but we are kind of living in a “1984” time.
And it seems to me that what the powers that be are trying to make us do is profess to believe increasingly evident lies! You know, we have to go along with transgenderism, Islam is consistent with homosexualism, this complete mass of weirdness!
And it the way to the way to really subjugate people is to make them make them lie to themselves. They have to go along with it and they have to say:
“Yeah transgenders really exist,”
And they have to pay lip service to that. And it’s even more humiliating if you actually start to bleep this stuff out. I mean, this is one of your big points, isn’t it Paul? I know that you’re Christian. I’m a kind of a borderline Christian but I feel that’s part of what us in the on the nationalistic, patriotic end of politics are, we’re people that are true to ourselves. I refuse to lie about this stuff! Two and two make four! Nobody on earth is gonna get me to tell you that they make five!
Paul: Yeah I mean, you know, we are authentic people. We speak the truth from the heart, simple truths, you know, about the nature of the world. But there is a simple truth about the Left, as well as the Liberals. Their agenda is not bringing this coalition together. Their agenda is hatred for us! It’s a hatred for our traditional societies, our traditional faith, a home, Britain, and what we’ve done for the world.
They’re actually united in this desire to destroy us! That’s what brings the Muslims, homosexuals, the feminists, the Marxists, all together in this coalition. I mean, they stay as a coalition, as long as we’re there to be attacked, you know. But the White male, the heterosexual White male from Christendom, that’s the hate figure they want to destroy. And that’s why they’re so sinister, so disturbing.
Horus: This is why I’d say tactically, it makes so much sense for us to encourage them to express that hatred as clearly and acutely as possible, because that gives us the best chance of our people awakening to this anti-White anti-male front that exists.
Paul: You see it best in the Trump derangement syndrome, where they absolutely hate Trump, because he’s a male, he’s White, he’s successful, he’s got a beautiful wife! They hate everything about him!
Horus: It’s amazing, because he’s barely done anything! Like he hasn’t done things anywhere near as bad as George White Bush. For the Left there’s so much more reasons to hate George White. He was responsible for, you know, huge number of deaths and misery and destruction. And Trump and done anything like that. But they hate Trump ten times more!
Paul: Because Trump mobilized the ordinary American patriots, the working-class, the White working-class. He brought them back into the political arena and has made them a political force again. Whether that’ll inspire the next elections is a question. But it really disturbed than that. They thought they destroyed the American patriots under Obama, you know, his eight years as President. They targeted them. They flooded their communities with drugs, they took away their manufacturing jobs. They constantly denigrated them and try to break their spirit! Trump brought them back from the dead! And they really loathe that.
Horus: Yeah, the fact that he just made nods towards ethnic identity, or White racial identity. That was what frightened and infuriated them so much, I think.
Paul: You see that Michigan sort of protest about the lockdown? In Michigan where the White militia turned up, the state militias with their guns. And they were so cocky and confident! And that’s what really disturbs the Left.
Horus: They really are terrified just by the appearance of that. It’s not even them doing anything, it’s just the fact that he exists! And it’s not on its knees. They really infuriates them.
Simon: Okay guys let’s move on a little bit with the conversation.
I was going to be self-indulgent dodging and talk about Jose Antonio. I’ve got his name in this week, because Paul, we got back in touch with me really commenting on my Jose Antonio primo de Rivera. But we’ll talk a little bit more about that Spain a little bit later.
I kind of wanted to do, as we as we kind of getting to know you. And perhaps a lot of the people in the audience don’t know Paul very well. I kind of like to go back a little bit through your history. And obviously I do my research. And you’ll tell me whether this is true, but I found lots of articles about you in the Liverpool Echo. The Liverpool Echo really love you, don’t they Paul.
Paul: Well I’ve stood for Mayor twice and stood for Police Commissioner. And I’ve stood for other political offices. So I got very well known on Merseyside side and engaged with lot of radio phone-ins. And I didn’t pull back, I really attacked the Left. Let them know what I thought about them. And people responded to that and really like it.
Simon: Okay this is, I mean, you can tell me if this is true I’ve got no idea this is what the Liverpool Echo says about you:
“As a young man growing up in Liverpool he was a member of the Labour Party and flirted with militant tendency. He later joined the Conservatives, the BNP, and more recently UKIP. And has now landed in the English Democrats and wants to be mayor of his home city.”
So perhaps I thought what we could do is we could go back through your political journey. I don’t know if it’s true whether you flirted with militants, or not. But I was a member of the Labour Party, probably around about the same same time as you were more on the Left. And I think it’s a very interesting thing to hear is how people go through their lives and finally reach, or when they reach the kind of, when they finally see the light when it comes to patriotism and nationalism.
So let’s go back to when you were a very young man. Were you involved with militants? This would have been cs.
Paul: Well I mean, my political odyssey started in the 1970s with the National Front. You know, first of all Enoch Powell, and then the National Front. Because in 1976 the National Front swept this nation! Swept the working-class communities, culturally, not politically. But we were all National Front supporters in north Liverpool. And there we were all on board to save this nation. We had an instinctive patriotism, an instinctive love of our people and we realized we were under threat. And in those days the White working-class was powerful. It was the biggest group in society and it could impose itself.
And it was only Mrs. Thatcher sort of picked up the National Front agenda. Started talking about putting White people at the top of council housing lists! Mrs. Thatcher used that language, “White people”. She started talking about the immigrants were threatening to swamp our cities and had to be stopped. And there so she sort of realized what way it was going into and she bought it. And she siphoned off that agenda and siphoned off the votes. So in 1979 Mrs. Thatcher won a very substantial majority in the general election.
And she brought out the Nationality Act. And she put down on immigration very quickly. And she started to stop the political correctness in the state system. And this led to the Toxteth riots [a Liverpool suburb] as a reaction in their sort of ethnic communities. But it’s really bizarre this, but in June 1979 the Conservatives won the European elections in Liverpool. People think Liverpool’s a left-wing city. In 1979 Liverpool backed Margaret Thatcher, believe it, or not. But, it then all went sour very quickly. When the recession hit, monetarism. She allowed Sterling to go too high, unemployment suddenly mushroomed to three million.
People were getting very disturbed by her agenda and the whole city just moved dramatically to the Left. And I was carried along with that tide. And I heard people in the militant tendency, preaching their message. And it had a passion in it! And it was a sort of was a rallying call to the people of Liverpool. And I was swept along in that.
And I read the Communist Manifesto. And I thought this is reality! This is what’s happening now! This is showing us away forward! And I bought into it completely. And then I got involved with militants and got involved with the Trotskyites, and explored Marxism. I mean, I read everything, you know, I devoured it! And I was really committed. I was really militant for about two years, three years.
And then I started to question it. I started to question, the people involved in it. Started to question it’s hostility to liberty and to our traditions. And I just became disillusioned with it, you know, to be honest. And, of course, in 1983 Margaret Thatcher won the general election, and the Left, the wind was taken out of its sail. And it was a new dawn in Britain really.
And I was a boxer, so I was around sort of military types at University, Cambridge. And I started to associate more with them and with it with their view of the world. And I read Roger Scruton’s book “The Meaning of Conservatism” [published 1980] and it give me this sort of intellectual ideological depth to take on the Left. And I just completely changed sides.
But really I was going back, I was reverting to what I believed as a kid, you know, to my instinctive patriotism, way back in 1976. I just reconnected with that. So I regard the whole left-wing period as just an aberration really. It was just part of that time. And a lot of working-class people were caught up in it. And I think a lot of us are shaking it off.
Simon: And then you joined, you actually joined the Conservative Party, didn’t you, throughout the Thatcher period?
Paul: I never got involved though in activism. And I went to work in the City of London which was a very conservative thing to do. But then I sort of, I mean, politics lost a bit of edge, you know, in the late 80s, early 90s. Things calmed down. Thatcher went didn’t she in 1990. Major come to the fore.
But I was very disturbed by the Maastricht Treaty. And I began to realize this was going to be a big issue in the future. I could see the way we were conceding more and more ground to the European Union. And this was impact on our sovereignty. And I thought eventually, it’s gonna impact everything! Including our control of our borders and immigration.
But don’t forget when John Major lost a general election 1997, immigration into this country was only 50,000 per year! So it was minuscule compared to today. I mean, it’s more than ten times that now. So it wasn’t a very big issue.
But I’ve become aware that demographically the West was being left behind by Islam, by India, and Africa. And as the youths were building up in these areas, we were aging, our population was aging. And I saw, I realized there was a danger there. There was a danger that we were actually going to be overwhelmed by the youthful vigor of these other continents. And we had to change direction. And I was really concerned about the level of abortion in Britain. And the fact the families are getting smaller and smaller. But it wasn’t panic stations at that point!
But when Blair won the election in 97, you know, like yourself Simon, I’ve been in the Labour party. And I knew what the Labour Party’s agenda was! I knew they were gonna hand over all our sovereignty to the European Union. They were gonna break up the United Kingdom! You were gonna flood the country with immigrants, on a vast scale!
And I tried to I try to warm people in 1997. Don’t vote for Blair, he’s a danger! But people were blind! They were so bought in by Blair, they believed in Tony Blair so much in 1997! It disillusioned me about the British people. I thought:
“Can they be manipulated so easily?”
Because I knew exactly what Blair and Mandelson were up to! And for me, that was that the day of catastrophe when they took power. And then I went back to nationalism, really, to the National Front in a sense. I went back to the British National Party. Because they were the only party that was speaking the truth on these issues.
Simon: Let’s go back a bit to, I think we might have a slight, or certainly Horus will, slightly different disagreement, and I will too. I’ve heard you speak quite praisingly, quite glowingly of Margaret Thatcher. But being — as we said before we came on the street stream — I was born in Nottingham. Lived in the northwest, lived in a very nice village in the northwest throughout my adolescence. But then went back to Nottingham for University. And I was there back in Nottingham from 1978 till kind of late 1984.
And throughout all that period I was kind of strongly anti-Thatcher. I was definitely a lefty throughout those periods. And kind of looking back on that period is, it’s very but very difficult to see Thatcher positively. Yeah a lot of the rhetoric is more patriotic, more, yeah home ownership.
But basically she ripped the flesh, she ripped the bones out of the northern industrial working class. She closed down the steel industry. The miners strike, I suppose the unions had to be broken. But now we don’t produce any coal. And in many respects my politics have changed, but I can’t help but seeing Margaret Thatcher as overall being a bad thing for Britain. I’m guessing you’ll disagree with me here.
Paul: Well my perspective was from, I went down south you see. So I saw the surge in prosperity in the south. And I knew eventually would actually go up north. When Margaret Thatcher began her attack on the trade unions and the imposition of monetarism, I think it was something like 365 leading economists wrote to the Guardian a letter and said:
“This is going to lead to economic catastrophe! It’s gonna destroy the British economy!”
But within two years the British economy was growing at 4% per annum. It was the fastest growing economy in Europe. And the investment just poured into this country. Because I was down south the investment initially went there. I saw the redevelopment! I saw factories being set up. I mean, Cambridge itself become a great industrial technological center. I saw a vast wealth. And in London the property prices started to surge. Stock market started to surge. And it was like a Renaissance of Britain. And, of course, Margaret Thatcher was a great figure on the international stage. Ronald Reagan loved her.
She began to influence the Communists. They began to listen to her ideas. Privatization, of course, was a big thing, creating efficiency in the public sector. And communism fell. I think Margaret Thatcher was sort of, was very much responsible for the victory in the Cold War. Of course, we also had the Falklands War as well.
Now, there was an underlying nationalism in Maggie. I mean, when I listened to her, I began to realize she had a passion about Britain and the British people! She really believed in our history. She really believed we had a mission in the world. And the English-speaking world was a Churchillian view really, and she was linked up with America. And she saw us as a leading light, and it inspired me! Because I’d got used to being in a decline and negativity in Liverpool! I’ve got used to like communist waffle and nonsense and people abusing the public sector. The inefficiency of the public sector, and the sense of national defeatism. You know, the hostility to Britain imposing itself on the world. And I’d grown tired of that.
And I think Thatcher was very inspirational! And I think I still think was a great tragedy that she was pulled down in 1990, because I think we would have left the European Union a lot earlier, to be honest.
Simon: Okay, that might be true, but my question is really what did Thatcher conserve? My big gripe, you know, the part of Nottingham where my family are traditionally from. My grandad —once again, everyone in the stream knows this — my granddad was a trade union leader, drove the buses, Transport and General Workers Union. The family had lived in my great, great, great, great — plenty of greats — was the first blacksmith on the river Leen before Radford even existed.
We were kind of an established family in Radford. And Radford had the Raleigh factory, the Players factory, and the pit. It was one of those traditional working-class communities where you could, I mean, I’m talking to up to the age of 10, 11, before we moved to the northwest, where everybody was auntie this, or uncle that, or where I could go into any house for an orange juice.
And really the miners strike was a massive turning point! It was becoming degraded already by the time I gone back to university. Because I actually had digs in the part of town where my family was from. So I was really going back to my roots. But really, the miners strike destroyed the Midlands and the north. I’ve got no idea, I haven’t been back to Liverpool for a long time.
But I can never really forgive Thatcher for that. And to be perfectly honest, you can talk to me about GDP and the economy all you like, but really what I want to say, I don’t care whether the economy’s booming, because if that money’s going to the wealthy, well it’s going into their pockets.
What I care about is the well-being, and now not in a kind of socialist way. In very much a kind of Jose Antonio primo de Rivera way! You’ve got to you have to look after the people. And I think Thatcher didn’t do this. Certainly not down our way.
Paul: I was down south and I was being told how desperate Liverpool was. And, you know, our poor the city had become, how shabby and sort of demoralized. I remember going back up north for me sort of break at the end of University. And the street where I lived, there was BMWs there. There was a Jaguar there. There was all sorts of flashy cars we had never seen before.
I mean, I just come from a working-class community and people were buying the council houses and renovating the council houses. People would actually become an entrepreneurial. They were starting their own companies! This is the true spirit of Britain! We’re not a nation that that buys into communism. We’re a nation that buys into enterprise, and actually, you know, making things happen, we’re a creative people. And I thought that was very much the sort of socialist propaganda that was being sold to us.
But there’s another factor as well, because I’m not an economic determinist. I don’t think people are shaped by the economy. I think people are shaped by cultural factors. And what really led to the collapse of the extended family, and the contraction in the number of children people had, and so on, was a turning away from Christianity.
I mean, it was the Labour Party in 1967 that brought abortion into this country. It was the Labour Party that legalized homosexuality! It was the Labour Party that made divorce easy! It was the Labour Party that undermined the social fabric of working-class communities.
And Margaret Thatcher understood this, because she always wanted to win back the inner cities and to revive them in a true British mode. But it proved very difficult, because the Labour Party had a grip on them. It’s only this recent election now, 2019, that the Labour Party’s finally lost it’s grip on the White working class in this country. And it was long overdue!
Simon: Sorry, I just switched my mic on. Horus, you’re a great, … I kind of accept your points Paul, but, you know, we have to have a productive conversation here. Horus, you’re a great critic of the Conservative Party, aren’t you? Have you got anything, any come back on Paul for this?
Horus: Yeah, probably that applies least to Thatcher though. I think she is one Tory who got a few things right.
Simon: That’s, because you’re a monetarist, aren’t you!
Horus: I’m not a monetarist. I’m against monetarism! Monetarism is bollocks. No, I’m an Austrian, … Yeah, she likes Hayek. And he was the worst of the Austrian school as well. But I like other Austrian school economists.
But with the miner’s strike, that was more, or less forced upon her. She prepared for it well, or you could say cynically. But that was caused, in my opinion, by NUM, or by the revolutionary leadership of the NUM, and by Scargill in particular. He was a revolutionary socialist! And he saw an opportunity, he believed wrongly, to bring her down and perhaps to bring down democracy, really. And to impose a “workers democracy”, you know, communist rule, basically.
It wouldn’t have been the same as the Soviet Union. But that was his aim. And. I don’t think she was closing, her government was closing mines any faster than Callahan and Wilson’s government had. As far as I could see, from what data I’ve seen, it might be manipulated. But from what I’ve seen, it was a pretty steady rate of closure going through the 70s, into the 80s. But whenever the Tories get into power — I saw this for the first time in my own life in 2007, very, very clearly — Labor, sorry the Left, just become one mass that swings into action! And they all know, they’re all ready, they all know that their program is to just bring down the Tories in any way they can.
And in the eighties, the Tories triggered a recession in the start of the eighties. So I mean, they sort of gave the Left an opportunity to attack them there. Didn’t quite bring her down, it was by a hair’s breadth that she hung on. But she did. Then the Falklands, they hoped, they supported the Argentine dictatorship, more, or less, hoping that would bring her down. And that didn’t go very well for them.
And then, they saw an opportunity with Scargill to try and bring her down. And yes, she sort of provoked the strike in some ways, by preparing for it. But that’s, because he was already pushing for it. And Scargill, he tried two, or three times, before he called the strike to get the NUM to vote for it. And they wouldn’t! The ordinary members didn’t want the strike. And eventually, after I think two, or three attempts, he just called a strike anyway, with minority support within his own Union. And the strike failed, partly, because several regions, I think, … Nottinghamshire might been one of them? Or Derbyshire?
Simon: Yeah. The Notts men, … Everybody hates Cargill! I mean, this is something I’ve argued about most of my life. I’m playing devil’s advocate with you a little bit Paul.
Simon: But Scargill was a complete disaster. You see what you have to realize is that Notts and Yorkshire — I’m from, I’m Nottinghamshire born and bred, and pits are the best! Our coal seam is the best, that’s it! And what Scargill did, without consulting the Notts men he sent flying pickets down, and just put them outside the pit.
Paul: I remember it well.
Horus: Terroristic, right? Terroristic action!
Simon: And so the Notts men who tended to be more conservative and certainly didn’t like a Yorkshireman leading them, anyway. This just provoked them, not to come out. So basically Scargill scuppered it from the start off.
Horus: Attacking his own men?
Simon: Yeah. Completely!
Horus: Attacking his own class?
Simon: A completely ridiculous tactic!
Paul: I actually think though that there’s a lot of mythologizing about the coal industry. Digging for coal is a very primitive activity! It’s what people basically do in the Third World, now. I mean, if you can create a Technology Park, it would generate more wealth than any coal mines. I mean, the price of coal was collapsing in the 1980s, that’s why they didn’t need the pits. They could bring it in from Australia at 7 pound a ton! Seven pound for a ton of coal! I mean, how many tons of coal did you need to buy a BMW car? You want technology! We want a sophisticated productive economy.
We don’t want an economy based on primitive industry! So we had to move away from the coal industry. And it’s not a good job to go down and dig coal underground. It’s a very dangerous job, it’s very unpleasant. But to be honest. I don’t think it’s a job that we should be doing today. You know, I think it’s a very primitive job.
So all this mythologizing of the coal industry, I didn’t buy into it. But what was really significant about Thatcher was, she wasn’t Hayekian! She listened to the Austrian School of Economics, but that wasn’t where the heart was.
I was a Cambridge at the time and I was a bigger fan of Roger Scruton. And Roger Scruton mentor was a guy called Morris Cowling. He was a big friend of Enoch Powell. And they used to have a seminar in Peterhouse College. And Cowling would be there, Powell be there, Roger Scruton would turn up and Margaret Thatcher would turn up. That was it, she was a Tory nationalist, Margaret Thatcher. But here it was all about Britain.
When she died and they had a big funeral for her at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London. I went down to the funeral, and I gave her a speech in a pub afterwards with all the Tories. Where there was Tory MPs there. Michael Howard was there. And I said:
“Margaret Thatcher in essence was, she believed in Britain! She believed in the British spirit! She believed in the British people! And she believed that Britain could play a key role in the future of the world. And had a key role to play!”
Now a lot of Tories were really lifted by that.
But there was a group of Asian conservatives there, Hindus. There was a lot of Hindus now in the Tory Party. And they actually booed me when I said that. They said I was being fascististic, you know, for saying something like that. But that’s the essence of Margaret Thatcher. That she was a patriot. And that’s why really I admired her.
Horus: Morris Cowling is a fascinating character. He was quite working-class like her, wasn’t he? I think in origin.
Paul: He’s a tough cookie Morris Cowling! Didn’t take fools lightly, I tell you.
Horus: Do you remember about Scruton, they were like, sort of lower middle class, or working class, in origin? They weren’t toffs.
Paul: Roger Scruton’s father was a trade unionist and a Labour Party supporter.
Horus: Hmm. And Jonathan Bowden’s speech on Morris Cowling was really good. Have you heard that?
Paul: No. I mean, I was a great friend of Jonathan Bowden. It was just a tragedy when he died, aged 49. That man was a fantastic orator! I attended a lot of meetings where he spoke! We spoke together on many platforms. Real tragedy when he died.
Horus: Coming across his speeches, I think shortly after he died, maybe in the year after he died, was the first time I ever heard of him. I came across his speeches on YouTube. And that was the biggest red pill of all for me, because I was listening to something on YouTube and then it auto-played without me, you know, I was doing something else on my computer. And it auto-played on to a Bowden speech. And an hour passed and I looked down at the bottom, I was like that was interesting. What channel is this? And it was a BNP channel.
And until then in my life I’d never permit myself to click on anything to do with the BNP, right? Because I was just completely indoctrinated against all that. And just wholly believe that that was black magic! You don’t open that book! You know, I did by accident and he won me over, just like that.
Paul: I went to a meeting at the Irish National Party in Belfast. These are like it an anti-Sinn Féin Irish nationalists, genuine nationalists. And there was for a lot of lads there from West Belfast, you know, Catholic lads. So I said to them:
“So, how could you come here today and you’ve given up on Sinn Féin.”
And they said:
“We’ve all been listening to Jonathan Bowden on the Internet!”
Lol wow this guy I mean, I used to listen to his speeches, and I take a DVD home with the speeches. I’d listen to it 20 times! It was an education. I was amazed! And he’s still under-rated now. He still needs to be promoted more.
Horus: You’ve got any speeches that people haven’t seen already? You could publicize them, like people are gagging for more Bowden material. There’s speeches that people rumor about, that seemed not to have been recorded. And people are like:
“If we could only get this one!”
So if you’ve got any that aren’t already on YouTube.
Paul: There’s a guy in Wigan called Dr. Charles Martha, who sort of led the BNP in the northwest of England. Ex Labour guy but a [word unclear], but a great man. And Jonathan Bowden would just turn up at a meeting in a pub in St. Helens, or in Wigan and give one of his speeches, you know! And Charles Martha would actually film it. So he made DVDs of all these speeches. You know, he’s got quite a collection. I think someone needs to connect with them, you know, and release them. Because they are amazing speeches!
Horus: That would be gold dust! If there’s more you could put out there, that’d be amazing!
Paul: . I don’t think there’s been anybody in modern British politics who can touch Jonathan Bowden. For, you know, the way he would open up the cultural nature of conservativism. The way he’d talk about the glory of Britain. And his insight into actual politics, world politics, was unique!
Horus: I realized one one step when I realized how brilliant he was when I listened to his speech about Punch and Judy! Which I’ve never, you know, it’s a topic I never cared about whatsoever! And suddenly Punch and Judy’s really interesting! He’s brilliant! Because he I think he used to perform Punch and Judy shows sometimes as well.
Paul: [laughter] He was a very eccentric character Jonathan Bowden! You wondered where he came from! He was like a visitor from another planet! [chuckling]
Horus: I think many people, …
Paul: I think he must have had a super intellect. I think he had a Mensa IQ, because his mine was just a treasury, you know. But tragically, 49 he died!
Simon: That kind that kind of brings us on, going through your history really. Because we’ve done the Tory Party, Conservative Party. Then you were a BNP member weren’t you? Obviously this is where you coincided with Jonathan Bowden. What year did you join the BMP?
Paul: Well, I had almost given up hope in 2001 after Labour got reelected and the Tories were going nowhere. And suddenly Nick Griffin emerged in Oldham. And had that famous election where he muted his own mouth, you know, he put a thing around his mouth. And then I thought there’s some hope here! That Briton, there’s still some hope.
And then in 2002, they won some council seats in Burnley. I mean, it’s very hard to win elections in Britain, because they’re all first past the post, of course. And that’s when I joined. I thought, I’ve gotta get involved with this. Because I had boxed at Cambridge and so had Nick, so we had that connection. So I thought, I want to get behind him and make what contribution I can. What a fantastic journey that was! I was in it for 10 years. And the BNP was a tragedy when it collapsed! But for 10 years it was rockin, you know.
Simon: And this is the kind of, … I suppose this is really, you mentioned that you are aware of the Islamification of Britain previously. But this is one of the great misnomers isn’t it? That it was the EDL that revealed the grooming gangs and what was happening in the north of England. But, in fact, it was many, perhaps what, 2005, 2006 it was the BNP that were talking about this, even that early on.
Paul: Well the truth is, a lot of people were aware of what these Pakistanis were up to, these Pakistani grooming gangs. And they were basically fishing for our kids! You know, driving around in cars and they’re getting to know the young girls, and grooming them, and turning then into heroin addicts and prostitutes! And people would irate about this! But, the police wouldn’t listen to any complaints! The police were totally doing the Labour Party’s bidding! And the media wouldn’t listen to it. And ordinary people couldn’t make an impact on this situation.
But the BNP, because they were so well organized and so motivated! And so effective as well! They were a very professional party the BNP. They started to rattle the police and the media. And they started to a real campaign against these grooming gangs, especially in places like Keithley in Burnley. And they started to win council seats in these area. So they had political representatives you could speak out on behalf of these girls who were being groomed.
And we got a crescendo going! We got a movement going! And that’s when I saw the anti-democratic nature of the British State. The police came down on us like a ton of bricks! I mean, members of the BNP were beaten up by operatives of the state. People started to have their bank accounts closed, and then the arrests began.
And the arrested both Nick Griffin and Mark Collett. He was there right at the hub of it. And they went to court in Leeds, I think it was, 2005. And it become a big national case! And that was really when the whole nation became aware of what was going on with these grooming gangs. So yeah, I mean, EDL picked it up. But it was the BNP who led the fight back. The BNP were brilliant mobilizing working-class communities in the north of England, and the Midlands. And in London as well. And winning elections! I mean, they won over a hundred council seats! They won county council seats. And then eventually, of course, they won MEPs. [Member of the European Parliament]
But that was a danger then, because the establishment were fully mobilize against us. I mean, with a big organization we had maybe 17, 18 thousand members, official members. We had tens of thousands of non-official members. We would hold up meetings in Liverpool, 150 people would turn up!
I mean, I remember speaking at Lee in Lancashire, and there was over two hundred people in this pub listening to the speech. And this was a heartland of the Labour Party. Labor had held this seat since the First World War. And we were mobilizing the people of Lee behind us. But the Labour Party managed to thwart us from winning that seat. But Lee just voted Tory and I think we put down roots there in our campaigns in that decade between 2000, 2010, which have finally come to fruition now.
And the BNP, the fact that it collapsed so quickly was a tragedy. Because we used to have red White and blue, we’d have this summer fete, you know, where people come from all over the country. And we did can with the English people! It was the first time since 1976 when the National Front swept this nation, that we saw a nationalist movement sweep this nation! Because when Griffin won a seat in 2009 in the European elections, I can remember people coming to Liverpool town centre to party! Ordinary, working-class people. At last we had a voice, but tragically it collapsed very quickly.
Horus: Do you attribute the collapse largely to the activities of the state? Or to several different things, or what?
Paul: The state turned the screw, but Griffin played the wrong game. Instead of bending slightly, … I mean, when a strong wind comes, a tree must bend, or it will break. He should have bent. He refused to allow ethnic minorities into the party. And he actually went to court to defend that. And he wasn’t gonna win that case!
And the British people, I mean, they didn’t want the full board of nationalism. But they were keen on the policies we were offering, and they were keen on a lot of the solutions we were offering. And we had that support! We had we started to touch people’s hearts. It was fantastic to see! I mean, I saw in Liverpool. We got six thousand votes in Liverpool, you know, which had been a Left wing city for a long time.
And we would go round with a trailer, a jeep with a trailer behind, with the BNP on, and we’d blast our music, and the people would come out to the houses to buy newspapers off us and stuff. We were really impacting this nation. Well, I think Obama’s victory in 2008, was very much a check on us, because the Americans wanted us killed off as well. And they had the deep state, the British deep state began to work against us. And, as I say, we don’t live in a democratic society.
I can remember having pub meetings where there’d be 30, 40, 50 people just turned up to hear a few speeches, have a drink, socialize. The police would raid it! Like we were involved in a criminal activity! They would threaten the landlord, who would eject us from the pub! It was criminal activity by the state! And I began to think, the British state was acting like an East European communist state. It was really scary stuff.
And that they saw us as a threat. And. I don’t think the time was quite right for us to achieve much more to be honest. We passed the baton on to UKIP. And they got us out of the EU. But we’ve lost a lot of the nationalist sort of ideology, and we need to rekindle a nationalist movement in Britain. It’s desperate now! We really do.
Simon: Sorry. Go ahead.
Horus: No, go ahead Simon.
Simon: Because then you ended up leaving the BNP, didn’t you? And you joined UKIP, was it with UKIP was that the first time you stood for political office?
Paul: No. I stood for the English Democrats initially. And I did well in Liverpool. And I had a good campaign and UKIP noticed this. And they approached me and said:
“Look, why don’t you stand for us? You can stand there in Liverpool for UKIP. We’ve got a bigger platform than the English Democrats and we will support you.”
But then UKIP began to come under pressure for accepting exBNP people. And Farage panicked. You know, the media were threatening to sort of start to denigrate him and accuse him of being a fascist, and so on. He panicked and said:
“No we’ve got to get the BNP out the party!”
So I was told that I couldn’t stand as mayor for Liverpool for UKIP. So I stood for the English Democrats, instead. And I got 7,000 votes for Police Commissioner, which was quite a decent vote for Liverpool.
Simon: So, how long were you with the English Democrats? A lot of the press you get in Liverpool, is from that period, isn’t, I’m guessing?
Paul: Well I was arrested. I was arrested twice. And they were big court cases. Once I went into a police station and said:
“What’s the flag above the police station? Where’s the Union flag?”
“Oh. This is a gay flag!”
It was the gay rainbow flag. And I said:
“I don’t think that is right, flying that above a police station!”
But they arrested me and charged me with homophobia! And it become a big case! It got national attention! And Eric Pickles* had to make the gay flag an official police flag, because I counter-attacked, and charged the police flying this flag illegally, which they were.
[* Pickles was the Chairman of the Conservative Party from 2009 to 2010 and is currently the chairman of Conservative Friends of Israel. He is the United Kingdom Special Envoy for post-Holocaust issues, being appointed in 2015.]
You need special permission to fly a non-official flag above a police station. They didn’t have it! And had them on the run, the police. So that become a big case in Liverpool. That got me a lot of attention. But I stood for the mayor twice, and I crossed swords with their Joe Anderson, who’s the Liberal mayor in the debates. And I really put him in his place! And I got a lot of a attention.
Horus: Eric Pickles is, even by Tory standards, an outstandingly contemptible prat! [chuckling] Oh God!
I was just I was quite stirred by what you said about the BNP. Like how well things were going for a while. And you said we need now, like something, I don’t know what was the term you used was, but something to spark off that kind of excitement again. Do you feel, …
Paul: A nationalist revival.
Horus: Yeah. I mean, did you see, …
Paul: Well, it’s happening in Europe! I mean, it’s happening in Italy would Salvini, before, you know, the coronavirus episode. And the brothers of Italy. It’s obviously, it’s had its day in France with Marine Le Pen. And then Simon must know about the Vox Party in Spain. Their recent performance has been astonishing in Spanish elections.
Simon: Yeah, very much.
Paul: I think there’s an appetite there! There’s an appetite there for a patriotic force, you know. But you are going to have to battle against the state!
Paul: What is really positive at the moment, is that the Left are totally demoralized! They’ve lost so many elections! They’ve been pushed out of power. And they don’t seem to have the will now to resist us.
I think if we moved up a gear. I mean, but I could see what Paul Golding and Britain first, … I mean, Paul Golding is an amazing political activist! He can create big things out to nothing! He have three million followers on Facebook. I mean, he had a campaign in Northern Ireland recently, it’s only exploded out of nowhere! But the state come down on him like a ton of bricks! They persecuted him. This is the problem, the deep state now. They are thwarting democratic activity in Britain. It’s very sinister!
Horus: Simon didn’t you put in the show notes for tonight’s show something saying like when we’re talking about persecution of say Paul Golding, or Tommy Robinson. We need to generally back each other across the dividing lines of our movements. Was that your words, or were you quoting Paul there?
Simon: I can’t remember what I said. When I put these show notes together I kind of cut and paste from lots of places. It’s definitely my sentiment. I think it’s a very important thing. Broadly we need to be supporting people.
Horus: I think the powers will be turning against all of us, obviously.
Simon: Yeah. And one of the important things about speaking to Paul, I think, you know, once we kind of realized that it was a good vibe, then a couple of weeks ago I said to Paul:
“Why don’t we talk about nationalism via email?”
So we’ve exchanged a few emails. And we seem to be more, or less in the same place. So it makes a lot of sense for all of us to know that we are working towards similar objectives. And broadly giving support to people when they come into trouble, I think.
Paul: Well the likes of Tommy and Paul Golding. I mean, Paul Golding’s been arrested more than ten times! And he’s been incarcerated. And he’s been fined. And he’s had this bank account closed so many times. I mean, not being arrested three times. And each time I’ve been vindicated! I’ve turned the tables on the police. I’ve actually prosecuted the police! Because if you get to know the legal system, you begin to realize that they just ride roughshod over the laws of this country! They think they can do what they want, the police.
Now the thing is with my prosecutions of the police, they went a long way, but they weren’t successful. Because when it looks like you’re going to defeat the police, the Crown Prosecution Service takes over the case, and closes it! You cannot defeat the police! It’s Orwellian what they have done to our state!
But yeah, this could be the problem for nationalist parties in the future. That they’ll use legal means to try and thwart us at every turn. I mean, Tony Blair introduced in 1998 “hate crimes”, you know, this novel idea that’s what you think could now be criminalized. And since then there’s been a whole series of laws which have limited how we can express ourselves. And even our freedom of assembly.
I mean, I was prosecuted in Northern Ireland, virtually for nothing! I made a speech which was pretty, you know, it was a very moderate speech, deliberately so. It was outside the City Hall in Belfast. And I realized it was a dangerous place to make the speech. I didn’t want to promote the authorities there. I made a very moderate speech and then three months later my house was raided by the police! And I was dragged to Northern Ireland to face a criminal prosecution! Which went on for two years! They got me involved in a criminal case which lasted two years, just to thwarth my political activity. This is how the State now operates in Britain! It’s deeply disturbing! It’s deeply undemocratic!
I mean, we’ve got Trump taken on the deep state in America. I’m hoping that if he gets reelected and he cleanses that state, and gets rid of all these sort of the globalist operatives. And that would come over here and Trump will say:
“Clean up your act in Britain and let democracy go forth.”
Simon: I think it was just a bit, … Excuse me. But I think you’re a bit optimistic about Trump. I mean, Trump has been in office for four years, and he really hasn’t built the wall. He hasn’t cleaned the swamp. You can see from the Epstein death that the swamp hasn’t been cleaned at all. They’re still, you know, sliming about all over the place.
Really what makes you think that if he gets in again, isn’t he just going to be kind of treading water and running out his term? And a little bit like the Tories. Yes, he dog whistles to nationalism, which is why he’s not liked. But when it really comes down to its he actually doesn’t do very much. And it by the same token Boris Johnson isn’t gonna do very much. Boris Johnson, the Left call him a fascist and a Nazi, but in reality these people are pretty much as globalist as anybody else. They just come out with the nationalist rhetoric.
Paul: I think Johnson’s a comedian like figure. He judges the environment and he fits in with it. If Trump can get reelected and pursue a truly nationalistic agenda in America, I think Johnson will follow that lead. But the thing is with Trump, Trump is a miracle! He came from nowhere! The globalist had taken over America. I mean, John Brennan and Comey, the head of the CIA, and FBI. John Brennan was a communist, an Islamic convert. I mean, Comey is just a liberal Lefty. And the Left had taken over the media in America. It was taking over the State, it was taking over a lot of the State governments, it was controlling Congress. It looked like America was lost!
I remember Jonathan Bowden said:
“America was gonna go down first and we’ll follow!”
But Trump came from nowhere and he mobilized the American patriotic spirit! And he’s faced horrendous opposition! I mean, judicial opposition initially. Everything he tried to do was blocked in the courts. He had to get the Supreme Court appointments, which enabled them to free up a lot of his movements. And then, of course, he lost the House of Representatives in the midterms, which thwarted a lot of his economic agenda.
But he got a big tax cut through. The wall is being built. I don’t know how much of it as being built! I don’t know how much of it is being built but it certainly is being built. He has certainly cut down massively on immigration into America. I mean, it was when these big trains going up through Mexico, in managed to tear them back. It’s almost miraculous! But he’s changed the culture of America’s! He polarized America!
And he’s mobilized the patriots to fight back against the Left. They were demoralized, the patriots. He mobilized them and he’s built up this alternative media. And there’s a big body of people now in America, he’s got maybe 60, 65 million people in the Trump train, who are ready to fight for America, and a patriots in America, against the Left. And it’s the first time in decades that the Left has really been put on the back foot. So given the opposition that he faced, I’m really impressed with what Trump achieved.
Simon: I would say, but he hasn’t turned around the demographics! The demographics are, you know, the original, or the original colonists, the White European colonists of America have been given a little bit of leeway, perhaps a little bit of extra time, but ultimately America is going to fall. This has got to be turned around. The person that we had on last week Gavin Boby, one of the expressions that I’ve always learned from him regarding immigration and demographics, he always used to sayc, or I think he still does say:
“Slow the tide, stop the tide, turn the tide!”
And really with this issue — I don’t know if you were aware — but here in Britain in 2066 the indigenous Britons are no longer going to be a majority in this country. Now these things have significant effects on the culture.
Paul: I think it’s going to be long before 2066! I think we’ve got, at the most, 15 years, realistically. Because the under forties group, it’s almost 25 percent now. I mean, what gives us this big advantage demographically, is the over 70s but the over 70s are going to die off very quickly.
And yeah Trump, … I like that expression of stopping and slowing down and turning around, because we were in a ship that was going the wrong way, we’re heading to the rocks, we were heading for national disaster! And these people at the top — the Merkels, the Clintons — this is exactly what they wanted, which is really disturbing!
But Trump got control of the ship, become the pilot, and he’s slowed it down as it’s heading to the rocks. And I think he started to turn around. It’s a process, it’s gonna take time. But I think Trump’s heart in the right place.
Trump has not come from a globalist perspective. He was in the Reform Party with Ross Perot. He’s always been on the fringe of American politics. Trump’s father was accused to be in a member of the Ku Klux Klan and Trump was a huge admirer of his father. I think Trump’s heart is much more aligned and nationalist than people actually give him credit. Dont know if you agree with that?
Simon: Yeah, Horus? Sorry I was switching my mic on. Any thoughts on this? I’m much less optimistic about Trump. I think Trump is a good optics. Trump looks good but, you know, he had John Bolton in his, … He’s controlled! He’s not free to act. His heart might be in the right place, but I’ve not seen enough action. I’m sorry Paul. Horus. What do you think?
Horus: I like Paul’s optimism. I would love to see Trump do radical, sort of deep state, swamp draining in the second term. But yeah, it doesn’t seem at all likely to me. My impression is that Trump is maybe completely compromised by Israel. I’m not sure, but maybe via Epstein? Epstein. I’m not sure. Like the zionist control of the US to me, just seems almost total! And I reckon Trump might be just one of their instruments. Maybe almost every President candidate is? I’m not sure.
Paul: I think Trump’s boxing very clever with the jewish lobby in America! Because he’s split them. I mean, 80% of the jews vote Democrat, and the left-leaning, the ultra globalist. But there is 20% of them there that are conservative leaning. And he’s managed to bring them on board. Because if Trump had gone totally against the jewish lobby he would have been totally destroyed.
I mean, when Obama was re-elected in 2012, the jews in America was saying:
“We’ve taken over America! We’re the ruling elite now!”
They were actually saying that explicitly. So when Trump won and threw Clinton off in 2016, they were very annoyed about that. And they had the power to bring Trump down
He had to win a slice of their support, and he managed to do that. And the way he’s done it is linking up with Likud and the ultra zionists in Israel. But and putting them against the Liberals in America.
Don’t forget the people who are really opposing Trump — Soros, Schumer, Shiff, [word unclear] — they’re all New York jews, you know. They’re all incredibly wealthy people on Wall Street. And they’ve got a heck of a lot of clout!
So to counteract that, he’s had to bring other jews on board who will defend him. But what really matters to me about Trump is that he is coming in from the West to save Europe. From the East we got Vladamir Putin. And I see Trump and Putin as very, almost like coworkers in throwing off the globalist control of the world. Because Putin, he’s so important to us, because he’s re-Christianized Russia, and he’s revived Russian nationalism, and he’s revived traditionalism in Russia. Russia has got no toleration of the homosexual agenda, they’re stopping abortions now in Russia. Starting to see an increase in the birthrate in Russia for the first time in a long time.
And this is what we need. And this has fed into Poland. It’s fed into Hungary. So it’s coming in from the East. Trump from the West. And we’re seeing the emergence of all these nationalist figures in Europe like Salvini, Thierry Baudet in the Netherlands. Vlaams Belang in Belgium, you know, Santiago Pascal in Spain. Marine Le Pen is going in France.
And so there’s hope! There’s hope! These figures are emerging, and they’re very significant figures. And they’re there and at every point they can challenge the globalists. And we need this international wave, we need this international alliance of nationalists! I mean, you can go extra-Europe, you can go to Abe in Japan, you can go to Duarte in the Philippines. And, of course, very importantly Modi in India! The Indian nationalists, especially in the fight back against Islam.
And there’s a new dialectic in the world now. It used to be Left against Right, freedom against communism. Now it’s nationalism against globalism!
And we’re not coming from a position of weakness. We might be doing so in Britain, itself, although we hope it can come back and change. But globally the nationalist forces are becoming stronger and stronger!
And so we can be optimistic that we can actually win this battle! And that’s really since 2016, since Trump’s election. And I think we can feel that. We can actually overcome globalism!
Horus: Which side is Jerusalem on?
Paul: Jerusalem is always on all sides! [chuckling] [words unclear] there’s a [word unclear] in both camps. [loud laughter]
Simon: Yeah I mean, I think we’re quite optimistic about the future, Horus and I. We’re not directly involved, but we’re kind of loosely associated with Patrick Alternative. And I particularly think that after the last election through the “Red wall” voting Tory leaves a massive opening for nationalists, because that these aren’t loyal Tory voters.
We need to have a nationalist party with a working class ethic that will appeal to people who are patriotic and socially conservative. But also want their concerns dealt with. You know, they want hospitals, they want a decent welfare system. And I think their concerns about the demographics, and things like rape gangs, being taken very seriously. So we’re faced with a massive opportunity now. Which I think to a certain extent has been delayed by Brexit.
I don’t think anybody could think about anything else. Unfortunately now we’ve got the coronavirus. But, assuming Brexit does happen, the fact that Brexit has happened it gives normal politics a chance to kick back in. And it’s an opening for the various nationalist, populist, and patriotic groups that existed in Britain today.
Paul: I think we’ve got to make immigration, the big issue now. And then the consequences of what immigration, … We need to bring up this notion of we’re being replaced. Our cities are being altered out of all recognition. And we are in danger here! It’s happening far too quickly. And since 1997, we’ve allowed 10 million immigrants into Britain! And that’s a threat to our very existence! It’s an existential threat here!
This is [word unclear] of Britain. And we’ve got to rally people around that point. I mean, the hope was that the Conservatives were pickle this issue of immigration, and run with it and start to take action. But they were dragging the feet even before the coronavirus. They were talking good, but they actually done very little! And we’ve got to apply pressure! We’ve got to seize political power, or apply pressure on the Conservatives to stop immigration. Because we’ve got control of our borders again, this what leaving the European Union was all about. It was all about immigration! I know sovereignty is an important issue, but it was people who realized that we were being overrun.
And there is a constituency out there. That is the seventeen and a half million people who voted to leave! The old Labour constituencies which have turned to the Conservatives, the White working-class, know that the Labour Party doesn’t want to represent them! The Labour Party’s become the party of the fringes, the margins, the immigrants, the public sector. And there’s a massive opening there! There’s a gap! There’s a big gap in the political life of Britain that needs to be filled.
Horus: With Brexit it was very, very, annoying that it took three and a half years to actually get done. And we’re still not properly, until the end of this year and then possibly some extension of that, but once we are fully out of Brexit that excuse for the Tories is now stripped away, and they are exposed! It is then clearly them who are replacing us with Somalians, and Afghans, and so on! And they will have no excuse anymore.
So, I agree with what you said. Like we’ve gotta get immigration and demographics on the agenda. And in my opinion the key thing along with that is to emphasize that it is the Tories doing it. Because I think our hope lies in essentially destroying —. And this is just a monumental task — but destroying the Tory Party!
And one good thing is that with Corbyn gone, it’s harder for Tory voters to sort of excuse themselves from switching away from the Tories, because they feel they betrayed them, by threatening themselves, or the rest of us with Corbyn. Because Keir Starmer is simply a less frightening figure. I mean, it’s still bloody awful, but like Corbyn was like a bogey figure! They could tell themselves:
“Now is not the time to switch away from the Tories, because I risk a Corbyn government.”
But whereas a Keir Starmer government sounds so much more moderate, whether it is, or not, fuck knows!
Paul: For me, Labor’s got off the edge of the cliff now! It’s totally anti British, anti-White, anti-Christian. I mean, it’s brought into this “woke” agenda completely! It’s not interested in the ordinary people of Britain anymore. And, because of that, for me, it’s no longer relevant in the situation.
Now the Tory party itself, is a very cagey institution. And it’s all about power! The Conservatives is the oldest political party in the world. It’s being in power most imposed of our last 200 years. And what they doing in the Tories, it’s very clever. They’re splitting the immigrants, bringing the Hindus on board, they’re bringing the jews on board, they’re bringing the Chinese on board. And they’re making the sort of Muslims, and the black inner cities, the black working class, they’re making them Labour’s constituency. And that’s how Boris got elected in Uxbridge. And that’s how they’re working this whole sort of demographic change now. And so, they’re always clever the Conservatives. They always know how to manipulate the situation.
But if we want Britain to survive, and for the true British people, the ethnic British, to prosper in the future, that’s an agenda that we can buy into. We need the British, the ethnic British have a voice again in this country. This is what’s really tragic is that, certainly since Blair, the only time we’ve ever really had a voice is through the BNP. A little bit under UKIP. But we’re almost excluded from the political process, the ethnic British. And we need to rebel against this! We can’t accept I! Because it will lead to disaster!
Simon: Yes, precisely. Sorry Horus.
Horus: It’s just gonna take serious, determined, organization, and a lot of intelligence, some luck, and a lot of [word unclear]. Yeah, like what you said before they’re gonna use all the legal means, you know, lawfare and stuff. Our movement is gonna need lawyers, apart from anything else.
And I had a conversation with a guy from Manchester, called Phil. It’s on my channel if anyone wants to watch it. And one thing that came out of that conversation, we agreed that, yeah, we’re taking on the state, not just, you know, political parties!
And I think attacking this state, has to be a part of our strategy. Taking legal action against them, wherever we can. Because one good thing is that I’ve seen two YouTube channels recently, just in the last couple of weeks, saying, they are going to do exactly that. One’s called Crime Bodge. I don’t think he’s a political guy, I don’t know, he’s always going on about police corruption, police malpractice.
He says he’s gonna start taking legal action against police in Rotherham over the rape scandal. It’s very encouraging and I would encourage people to check that out. Another one’s called Not-So-Obvious. He’s making some big documentary, or series, about the rape gangs, trying to bring all the information together. And this is all about just saying:
“Well we don’t care whether it’s Labour, or whatever, it’s about whoever is allowing these networks of foreign men of rape British children!”
The people allowing that are criminals themselves! And they have to be taken down! And I see some sort of increasing focus and determination on, you know, [words unclear] we are responsible for this, we’re gonna get them! And I think that’s really encouraging, and to be encouraged as well! So I like that.
Simon: Okay, let’s do a few questions and superchats. We’ve only got one superchat so far tonight. It’s from the fantastic Thin Red Line, who sends ten US dollars and says:
“Great stream very interesting! Paul Rimmer, …”
This is a slightly tongue it tongue in cheek question for Paul, but it takes us into interesting territory. The Thin Red Line asks:
“Paul Rimmer, will you join Patriotic Alternative?”
Paul: I believe we need nationalist unity in Britain, I mean, there’s a heck of a lot of talent out there. I mean, Horus has just talked about legal minds. But it needs a leader! Someone’s got to emerge to lead the nationalist movement. Mark Collett’s a very charismatic guy. He’s very intelligent. He’s very capable. If he could just drop his baggage, or turn against, it he could be a very effective leader.
Paul Golding is an immensely capable political activist! He can make things happen! He could be an effective leader. Again, he’s got problems, because he’s a got a criminal record. The state has persecuted him for so long.
But I almost go back to Enoch Powell. Enoch Powell came out of the establishment and created the earthquake. I mean, in 1968 80% of the British people backed Powell. They backed Enoch Powell. But he didn’t have a political party to take power.
When Boris Johnson came out to the establishment and fought for Brexit, it was successful. It’s sort of, I’ve got to believe that there’s somebody there in that mix, in that establishment who is a genuine patriot! A genuine nationalist who wants to preserve the British nation. Who wants the British people to survive. And we’ve got to hope that somebody does emerge as a leader. And the Patriotic Alternative, I mean, Ralph is a fantastic guy! He’s very inspirational. And he’s got great insight. And I’m learning a lot from Ralph from studying his ideas.
And the Patriotic Alternative is going places, it’s dynamic! But it needs to fit in with the nationalist wave, internationally, because you should be inspired by what’s happening across Europe and across the world with the nationalist movements. This is our hope. We get inspiration from that. And we get resources from that as well, and support. So I think we can be optimistic. And the Patriotic Alternative is part of the nationalist sort of resurgence in this country. Why not join it?
Simon: Yeah. I think what’s important is that we don’t counter signal each other. I know you’re pretty close to Britain, First. I’ll put this up on the screen now just to emphasize the point that you’ll be speaking along with Paul Golding and Tommy Robinson. Who we might touch on the issue of Tommy Robinson, who we tend to be more critical of but the good thing about Paul Golding is he doesn’t counter signal.
And yeah, both Horus and I are close to the Patriotic Alternative group, part of the general group. But one of our interests in speaking to you Paul is precisely this. That I felt that you would be the kind of person with whom we can build these kind of bridges. We need to be building bridges between these different groups, because we can’t be running around calling each other fascists, and Nazis, as we’ve been called recently. Because, you know, that’s behaving like the Left in our opinion.
Paul: We will all be called fascists, and Nazis, by the Left, anyway. Doesn’t mean, you know, it doesn’t matter if you are the real McCoy, or you are just an impersonator, or you are just a patriot, they will use these negative terms against you. But I think they’ll losing their power, their potency. Nazism’s a long time ago! Second World War finished in 1945.
For me, it belongs to history, you know, it’s like Cromwell and Napoleon. It’s from the past. And we’ve got to look forward! We’ve got to save our country, for our future generations! And this is what Ralph keeps emphasizing. We’ve got to look to the future now and see the opportunities ahead. Let go of the past and focus on what we can do to save this nation.
Simon: Yeah, the problem is that some of the groups. And this is why I retain my admiration. I think Paul’s style is a little bit different from ours, because he’s often quite confrontational, which is probably the reason why well he gets into trouble, so often. But and Marie waters, for example, recently made a video basically telling lies! Saying that we’re racists. Using using words like “Nazi”, and that we want to round all black and brown people up and throw them out of the country.
Which is a million miles from the truth! And I’m sorry for putting you on the spot here. But obviously I’ve done my research and I’ve seen that you’ve kind of given your support, or certainly did a video at a meeting with Anne Marie. And I find this kind of behavior, speaking honestly, reprehensible, because it’s not getting us anywhere really.
Paul: Well I’ve always regarded Anne Marie as an incredibly courageous woman! And I think her position on Islam is very strong. But I’ve actually pushed this said:
“What’s your ideology? You’ve come out of the Labour party, you’re anti-Islam, what’s your ideas for the future of Britain?”
And she won’t commit herself to anything. And I was very disappointed the way she attacked Patriotic Alternative, the language which she used, homophobic, misogynistic, fascist, racist! It was a tick list from the Social Justice Warriors! And that sort of exposed the heart of it. I was very disappointed in that.
I mean, there’s great people in For Britain. I mean, Eddie Butler was there, a lot of exBNP people. We need really to be part of the nationalist coalition to change this country round.
I mean For Britain, they’re using the electoral road, and they’re trying to create a shield, so they can’t be attacked. But I was really disappointed when she said those things. I just thought:
“No, I can’t buy that, I don’t go along with that. I’m sorry.”
That’s not the language I would use. That’s the language of the Left. That’s destructive! That’s negative! That is how the Left operates. It’s all about negativity and destruction.
We’ve got to recognize positives in all situations. We’ve got to see Patriotic Alternative, there’s a lot of very genuine, very worthwhile people in it. You can offer hope to this country.
Simon: Well this is what we think we are. [chuckling]
Horus: This should probably go for all nationalists, like ninety, ninety-five percent of our time should be spent fighting our real enemies, our mutual enemies. And there are occasions when you’re gonna need to stand up for your movement, because you’ve been attacked by another one. And that Anne Marie Waters attack on PA the other week was one [words unclear] not that significant in my opinion. I mean, it’s just, because For Britain, you know, it’s not that big a deal. And also that actually I think gained us some supporters from For Britain as well. But the other incident was when Tommy Robinson’s channel last summer, just unprovoked, made a really vicious attack on Shazia Hobbs, Dionne Moller and Mark Collett.
And that triggered off a huge surge of people moving from sort of the general Counter Jihad perspective into proper ethnic nationalism. Which videos I’ve made since then have all been in designed to encourage. And I would just say, yeah on those occasions you’ve got to make clear right that we disagree with you there, and we’re not standing for that.
But, I think among PA guysc like some of us, you know, in recent months have got overly focused on the groups just adjacent to us in ideological terms. And like we spent so much time just trying to destroy every little remnant of idiocy among them. Mostly our fight should be against the people actually bringing in foreigners into the country. Which, you know, is not to be blamed on Tommy Robinson, or Britain, First. That’s being done by the politicians and by this civil service, and so on. So I’d say if we’re spending more than five percent of our time attacking other patriot nationalists type people, we’re getting it wrong, I think. There’s a small call for it, but that is about all.
Simon: Yeah, I totally agree.
Paul: We need to campaign to win elections. We need an organization which is ready to fight elections and which can sort of persuade the British people that we are there to represent them. And get the British people involved in that organization. I mean, Britain, First has been thwarted a lot, because of the legal position. They’re not allowed to stand candidates at the moment, they’re trying to overcome that. But we need a political force.
And For Britain to their creditor, they’re the only people that are actually fighting elections from any sort of patriotic perspective. And we desperately need to fight elections, because then you do look outwards. Then you do connect with the people and you start to address people’s hearts. And realize we can’t be ahead of the British people, we’ve got to bring them with us, you know, in this crusade to save our nation.
Now Tommy Robinson is a folk hero in this country! I mean, he’s an incredibly brave guy. He’s been in prison. He’s been attacked and he stayed the course. He’s fought back! Now politically, he tried to get elected for the Northwest, he failed there. He needs to connect with a political party. Because he needs to have a real political ideology, and not just a Counter Jihad approach. So, maybe he is a work in progress, or maybe he’s not, but only time will tell.
Simon: Okay. Let me just do a few more, more superchats have come in this is great. Let’s have a look. We’ve got Jay Radio who says:
“Great show guys! Great to see discussion and cooperation. Collectivise to survive!”
Yes, we agree mate. And Steve Ben Bob, another three US dollars. And thanks very much Steve Ben Bob. Another regular contributor, says:
“Important discussion tonight we need more of them.”
Yeah, I definitely agree with this. And we need to be reaching out. And I really agree with what Horus has just said.
We need to be building bridges, and we need to identify who the real, .., or we need to be fighting against who the real enemy is! Which is primarily the Left and Islam. We can talk about this in broader terms and broader strategies, but the enemy is pretty visible. And we really ought not to be bickering amongst ourselves.
Horus: And find Eric Pickles as well! [laughter].
I was on them I was on a stream with Laura Towler the other night — Hail Laura! And I said on that, whatever differences I’ve got with For Britain, … I mean, I don’t share their zionist support for Israel and stuff, you know, things like that. But all the same, if the next election comes around that I see, you know, fifty For Britain counselors have been elected, I’ll be delighted! Because that’s still progress! That’s still good. So I still see them as sort of brothers in the cause, really. We just got differences. But. We really need to spend very little time on the differences, right? Because we’re the task we face is so monumental anyway!
Paul: There’s so much great talent in the nationalist movement. If we pool our resources and get properly organized, and get a decent leader — it’s all big “ifs”, like. But if that happens, we could really impact this country again like we did during the BNP years.
I mean, we haven’t mentioned Nick Griffin tonight. He’s an interesting character in the background.
Simon: Yeah. Well Nick Griffin, I don’t know if you saw the interview we did with Nick Griffin three weeks ago? Very, very interesting. Quite strong differences of opinion, because Nick thinks and the basis of the difference of opinion is, Nick has given up on the electoral route. And he thinks we’re going to lose the electoral route. If it comes to a civil ethnic civil war, the indigenous people are also going to lose. So we ought to be going off into the country and creating, … Well I suppose this is an unkind and ungenerous summary of what he said. But we ought to be community building. And both Horus and my view of this is, of course, we need to community build!
All the nationalist groups, patriotic groups, that were involved in, community building is part of this. But firstly we shouldn’t give up on the electoral route! And if things did —. And this is in the worst of circumstances — if things did come to violence, I think you need to be very careful about completely giving up on the indigenous people of these islands who are much better rooted much more capable of looking after themselves. Obviously it’s a scenario that we don’t want to play out.
But we’re not finished yet! We’re not finished until we’re finished! And there’s plenty of votes left in it in his first. And if that doesn’t work, there’s plenty of fight left in us, I think. And that was basically Nick’s view. Nick is taking a back seat, I think. I’d like to speak to him again in the future. But. I don’t think we can count on him. Certainly in the kind of projects we’re talking about.
Paul: He did sound very jaundiced and disillusioned Nick. But, I think he probably can be re-inspired again. I mean, hope for me, hope springs eternal. That’s what being a Christian is all about. Even the dead can be resurrected, you know. And I think there’s so much hope out there and optimism. And. I don’t think he’s reading the demographics correctly. We’re not finished yet. We’ve still got a couple of decades to save this country. I mean, Ralph’s emphasized that point. And we need to:
“Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our English dead!”
That’s the cry of old Henry the V*. But we don’t give up! Griffin’s wrong about that. We need to keep fighting and winning this political battle.
[* Henry V, also called Henry of Monmouth, was King of England from 1413 until his death in 1422. Despite his relatively short reign, Henry’s outstanding military successes in the Hundred Years’ War against France made England one of the strongest military powers in Europe. Source: Wikipedia]
Horus: If things descend into violence which I mean, there is likely that there’ll be some sort of communal violence in the decades to come. But I mean, he mentioned that, yeah, obviously like nationalism has in many cases been populated by like fat, drunken, middle-aged, men. And I think he’s leaving aside the fact that they’re also quite a lot of young men, who if things start dividing along such clear lines, you will see that there is talk, like a fighting quality amongst Englishmen. We have made fine warriors over the centuries. And often very fearsome, vicious warriors as well! Psychopathic warriors in some cases, in a good way.
Paul: The Celts and the Saxons have a great heritage of fighting warriors, you know. And that’s what nationalism is about! Reinvigorating that and bringing it back to life! It’s not just about winning elections, it’s about stirring the national spirit again. Reviving the British soul! Oswald Mosely used to talk about that a lot. It’s the soul of Britain! It’s the inner spirit that needs to be revived. And that’s what we’ve got to do! And we’re the only people who are going to do that. We’re the vanguard of that. We’re the people who’ve kept hold of that spirit, or found that again. We might have gone off to the Left but we come back to patriotism. And I believe there’s a lot of young people out there who can be revived again. That spirit can be stirred in them, and we reconnect with our past. The positive things that are our past. The strength of our past.
Simon: This is one of the great things about the atmosphere we’re moving in at the moment. I’ve just turned 60. So I’m definitely the old man of this. But there’s lots of guys moving in our circles. We’ve got a young lad who’s 15, plenty of guys in their early twenties. So it’s really positive. There’s young people who are getting involved in this. And before we move on I don’t want to do another superchat from Johnny Jay, who’s another regular contributor. Thank you very much. He sends 25 US dollars and he says:
“Great show lads! Paul my mum and dad were born in Walton. Ripon Street and Eaton Street. Is there any hope for Walton now? Like what you are saying about the Left being in disarray, they are. The government is too, e.g., the tweet from the health account from ethnicities and genders adversely affected by Covid ridiculed. Time to pounce!”
Did you get that Paul, or do you want me to repeat any of it?
Paul: No I got that, yeah, I mean, Walton, I grew up in Walton as a kid. I used to live in the shadow of Goodison Park, Everton Football Club. And it’s an old traditional scouse working-class community. It voted Tory for most of its history. I mean, the famous Lord Birkenhead, Frederick Smith, he was the MP for Walton. And this is great hope there! There’s great hope for the people. I know people in Walton, and I know even though they’ve sort of voted Labour of late, they are patriotic people. And they are strong people! They are very masculine as well! Very traditional people.
And one way, or another, we’re gonna stir the British people again. We’re not gonna go down without a fight! We’re going to stir the British people! Were not prepared to see this nation Islamized! We’re not prepared for the British people to be pushed aside!
There’s a glory in this nation. That is what Jonathan began used to speak about. The glory of Britain! And it’s there. It went over to the United States in a sense. And this is one of the great things about Donald Trump, his mother is Scottish! She’s got that Scottish grit about her! And we have got to revive that Britishness, that Scottishness, that scouseness! The old Cockneys of the East End, they were pushed out, we can’t allow this to continue!
We’ve got to value our head our heritage! Our working-class heritage! The common people, the yeomanry. You know, the men of oak who fought at the Battle of Trafalgar. The men who fought at Waterloo! The men who built the British Empire! He crossed the five continents and made Britain the supreme nation of the world! And English is the language of the world!
So much glory of this nation. And it comes from the common folk, the common man. Because we’re a great people, we’re a gifted people, and we were in line with God, and we were in line with what was right, and we’ve got to stir that again! We got to awaken the British spirit again!
Simon: Fantastic stuff! And another superchat from Serena JB. Thank you Serena, and that three 3 GB pounds:
“Very interesting show as always.”
And we’ve got a few questions as well that are unpaid, but we’re going to read them out anyway. Chaé Ragnarson has got the top one with two votes:
“How was, or what was the message the NF [National Front] gave to be able to draw in the following they began to amass during those times?”
You know, what was it about the NF that that attracted so many people back in the 1970s?
Paul: Well, it fed on Enoch Powell’s message, that we were bringing about our own downfall. That the funeral pyre was being built! And when it was going to be lit, this great nation is gonna be extinguished. And we all had a duty as Englishmen, as British people, to stop this happening! And people bought into that. People were very patriotic, it wasn’t long after the war. It was only like, 30 years, after the war. And it was that war generation was still around.
But people still love this country! They love this island! I mean, it’s a beautiful place Britain! It’s got a fantastic history! And we’re all privileged to be British! I mean, Cecil Rhodes said:
“To be born British is to win first prize in the lottery of life!”
I mean, we passed the baton to America, and we’ve got the English-speaking world. But it’s still something of real value here. We have to rise for the challenge and defend it, and make Britain prosper again!
Simon: Okay, fantastic! And the second question from Chief Only Son Smith, who is definitely a gritty Scot, says:
“Bearing in mind the only enemy we really have is the White, smug, liberal, Libtard, normie, should we just double down on the bad optics and truth-telling, rather than grovel to these traitorous vermin? Discuss!”
So, I think he’s saying:
“Do we mind being called fascists?”
Paul: Well we don’t need, … These labels, they really should just fall away from us, because what we are is people who love our history, and our traditions, and other people going through the ages! Not just Britain, but part of Christendom. That’s really important. We fought in the Crusades to defeat Islam in the past. And that war against Islam started really in a 7th century and didn’t conclude until very recently! It went on for over a thousand years! You could say it ended at the gates of Vienna.
Simon: I think it still hasn’t concluded actually!
Paul: It’s rekindled hasn’t it. Now and we’ve got to rise to the challenge again. I think we’ve got to revive our churches. I’m really impressed the way Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church is reviving Russia. And you can see like Modi in India, Hinduism. He’s using religion to revive the nation. In Japan, Shintoism with Abe [Prime Minister]. And Viktor Orban, and in Poland, the Catholic Church is very conservative, very nationalistic. We need the churches, because we need the spiritual uplift as well.
We’ve got to realize that this is a spiritual battle were fighting. We’re not just fighting for our race and our history, were fighting for what is right and true! We’re fighting for what is decent, you know what is wholesome!
This is why our fight is against Cultural Marxism, as well as Islam, and as well as this globalist agenda. It’s a fight for what is worthwhile in life. This is about the purpose of our lives, to create a better future for our children. To value what we’ve received in the past, and to actually keep it strong in the present. This is the battle that were fighting. The spiritual battle! And we’ve got to revive the Christian spirit in Britain.
Simon: Yeah. I tend to agree. I’m so close to becoming a full Christian! I go to churches all the time — when the coronavirus doesn’t keep me at home! I’m kind of a massive fan of religious art, and wander around Catalonia, and all over Spain, actually. I love the architecture! I love everything about it! I love the way it makes me feel.
But there’s something very sad, is that religiosity, sadly, and I have to admit it, has been educated out of me! There’s a lot of time I kind of look around and like:
“Please! Please come and save me!”
I would really like it to happen, but it doesn’t seem to happen. But you’re completely right. You need to be fighting! We need to be poet warriors, fighting for a greater cause!
Paul: I like that!
Simon: That comes from the higher good really, I think.
Horus: Something we agreed on, … Oh sorry [interrupting Paul]. Just in the first few weeks of us doing this. I started doing this with Simon, what, last October sort of time. And within the first few weeks we sort of agreed on one particular point. That of a moral principle, I guess. Just that we believe in beauty, truth, and goodness, right? I mean, I’m not, I wouldn’t call myself a Christian. I did pray for the first one since I was a child earlier this year. And it was answered. I don’t know to whom exactly I was praying. But there was something happened, and I felt myself changing since.
So I’m beginning to agree with what you say about the spiritual cause. What never motivates me, is just when people say that we need to be spiritual, because it’s of utility to us. It has to be authentic, otherwise, it just seems like an imposition, if that makes sense. So that’s how it appears to me, anyway. But I’m speaking from a sort of atheist point of view.
But, you know, that has to be nurtured in the most, … I can’t even describe how it can be done! Like the nurturing of the spiritual side of the movement, if it presented to you as a matter of obligation, it’s very off-putting. This is how I find it anyway. But if it’s something that you actually, … I can’t finish off my thoughts, … That’s how I developed my thinking, is I can’t finish my sentence. [chuckling]
Paul: , you know what, we’re going through period of purification! And I see it mostly in Russian, the purifying. I mean, they got rid of communism. I mean, in the Ukraine alone they removed 5,000 statues of Lenin in Ukraine! I mean, millions of streets in Russia have been renamed! Places, artifacts have been removed!
The only thing they’ve left in the communist period it’s the war memorials. So it’s like a purification of the nation, going back to its heart, and it’s soul. Which is Russia, the Christian faith. But we need a purification in the churches as well in the West.
Pope Francis, the Jesuit Order, they were taken over by the Marxist in the 1960s. What should be a source of strength for us and the institution’s we can gather round, the Cultural Marxists have moved in and corrupted them! The Church of England has been really severely damaged! Maybe beyond redemption. Now this as part of the battle as well. Saving our culture, saving our spiritual life, saving our religious heritage! This is all its all part of the battle were fighting. It’s a much bigger battle just fighting for our race and our nation. It’s a battle really to save what is a glorious culture!
This is what Jonathan Bowden used to speak about. Something which it inspires us, and gives our life meaning, and gives us hope for the future. And something, which is worth fighting and dying for! This is what we’re losing in our culture. Now everything is losing it’s meaning, and it’s significance, and people are sort of apathetic.
That spirit that the British people could be stirred to actually fight to the death for something, this is what we had in the past! This is why we survived as a nation. Because don’t forget, Britain, the Spanish Armada came here, the French tried to destroy us, we had to fight across the five continents to establish our Empire. We had that inner zeal in us! You know, it’s really important! It’s like a force of life, and it’s a positive thing, it’s a positive energy! This is what we need in the nationalist movement. We need that vitality!
In the sense the National Front had in the 1970s, and the BNP had it between 2000 and 2010. And when you were part of it was so invigorating!
I remember going to like the Red, White, and Blues of the BNP and the atmosphere was electric! That sense of comradeship! Friendliness! Lifting each other up was amazing! It was like going back to a golden age Britain. And this is what the Left despise. They despise this collectivist spirit!
I mean, Simon talked about the NUM and stuff, they were Marxists and communists, but they did have, the has been lost in a sense, that working class community. That sense of solidarity. And it’s so important to make a nation strong and it came out of the churches in the past, and these are sources of energy for our people. These are sources of life, social reproduction. And they’re so important!
This is what Trump has brought back to America. When you see as rallies, you feel the energy of his rallies! They’re electric! And people are inspired by them! You have to raise people’s horizons! They have to see something beyond themselves, the bigger picture, that were not individuals just going through life, you know, struggling to get through each day, but we belong to a collective and ancient body.
Simon: Well, I think that is a great, … We have just come up to the two hours. I think that’s a great, an inspiring way to finish. It’s about the greater good. We have to collectivize. We talk a lot about collectivizing and re-racinating, about understanding who we are. And I don’t know what you think Paul. But I think this conversation has been really positive. It shows that people in this movement have plenty in common, and any minor differences that we have, can easily be overcome. And I think the audience should take that away as a really positive message.
Paul: Hear, hear! Thanks Simon! Thanks Horus! Appreciate it!
Simon: A pleasure having you on Paul. If you want to check out Paul’s YouTube channel. The link is in the description box.
Thanks for being here folks. I think it’s been a fantastic conversation. Look after yourselves, and we’ll see you all next week!
Horus: Thank you Paul!
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