Andrew Hitchcock: To learn who rules over you. Simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise. You are listening to ACH and I’m your host on today’s show.

 

I’m delighted to welcome that my dear friend who’s been with me since the very start, Mike Walsh.

 

So let’s bring him up right now. Mike, are you with us?

 

Mike Walsh: Yes. We’ve been together for a very long time, haven’t we? And I hope that we will be together for a very long time in the future, because it’s very rewarding talking with my friends around the world and hearing from them, which you do.

 

So thank you for all the messages of support since we last talked. It really is appreciated and very much helpful.

 

So I just want you to know that from this side of the world, you are very much appreciated. The whole family. Thank you, Andrew, for having me on your show again.

 

Andrew Hitchcock: Well, thank you so much, Mike.

 

And should we start off with, we’re recording this on Tuesday, May the 9th. And we’re going to be putting this up in about 15 hours, early on Wednesday, May the 10th. But, of course, today is this day that Russia celebrates every year, some military victory day. Mike will know more about it than me.

 

And, of course, we’ve had an increase in the violence in the Ukraine. So what is your current analysis of what’s going on between Russia and Ukraine and the West, Mike?

 

Mike Walsh: Yeah, I don’t consider it a war, Ukraine against Russia or Russia against Ukraine. They’re being used as a battering ram, Ukraine. And the war would have ended at least a year ago had it not been for the arms and the money pouring in from the Western alliance.

 

So it’s a proxy war. And it’s a war that they’re losing, but they will just not admit that they’re losing. I’m not talking about Ukraine. It’s going to be an absolute disaster! And this is why the Western Alliance is working so hard to keep the war going, because they don’t want to lose face, as they did with Afghanistan. And there’s no question about it, the war is being won in Russia’s favour only today.

 

[03:38]

 

And remember that Ukraine, in terms of population, is a very small country. It’s got about 20, 25 million, most of whom are female or the very old or the very young. They don’t have many men of fighting age. And yet today they’ve lost 460 fighting men in the war. The attrition rate is eight to one. So for every eight Ukrainians who die in this conflict, this NATO conflict, there’s only one Russian dying. And they are a much bigger population, a well organised army. They’re a world nuclear power. They can afford it. Ukraine can’t.

 

So far, the figures are staggering! Ukraine has lost, so far, an estimated 350,000 fighting men. Now out of a very small population, less than half of that of Spain, that is cataclysmic! When you bear in mind that they’ve never forgotten the Vietnam War, which lasted for 20 years.

 

And of course, the important thing to remember about that debacle is that 55,000 American servicemen lost their lives in the unfortunate hapless Vietnam War. Nearly seven times that number of casualties have occurred in this NATO conflict against Russia, which is only 14 months old now. That is the scale of this catastrophe! Ukraine will never recover from it.

 

But NATO, the Western alliance, Andrew, will never recover from it at all. Because even as I speak, even though the Russians, there is no triumphalism, not on this particular conflict anyway.

 

Another story. But the Russians don’t accept yesterday that they won. But everybody knows, even the Western pundits are bracing for a defeat for Ukraine.

 

Now, if Ukraine is defeated, and it is already defeated, it’s not just the defeat of Ukraine, because Ukraine really doesn’t matter anymore. Ukraine is half the size, or it will be half the size that it was in February 2022. They’ve already lost, 20% of their territory, which in terms of mineral resources is the richest, richer than the other 80%, to Russia.

 

There is absolutely no way that Donbas or Crimea is ever going to be under the Ukrainian or the NATO flag. That is not going to happen.

 

Kiev has already ceded western Ukraine to Poles. Because in 1945, when Europe was carved up by the military victors, a great slice of Poland was given to Ukraine in compensation. They were given a large swathe of territory, former German territory. So everything shifted to the West. Now, Poland being Poland, wants their territory back. They’re not going to give the territory that they took from Germany back to Germany, but they want the territory that was taken from Poland and given to Ukraine in 1945 under Stalin. They want that back, and they’ve already got it back. They’ve got de facto, they’re changing the laws.

 

So everybody living in western Ukraine, which again is about 20% of that country, is now under Polish influence.

 

[07:38]

 

Now, when this happens, and it is happening, Hungary, which again lost a lot of territory, Hungarian territory, to Ukraine in the aftermath of World War II, as did Romania, they want their populations back. Because again. In western Ukraine there are many people who are ethnic Hungarian, who see themselves as Hungarian. They speak only the Hungarian language. They go to Hungarian schools and Hungarian churches. They follow the Hungarian culture. Absolutely the same with Romania.

 

So the whole shift is occurring as we’re talking. And what will the outcome be for the Western alliance? A fiasco! A debacle far greater than was Afghanistan! If you think Afghanistan, which they scarpered from in a couple of days, was a fiasco for the United States and NATO, it’s going to be dwarfed by the collapse of the Ukrainian front.

 

All of the NATO Arsenals, and we’re talking about, I think it’s 20 countries or 30 countries, they have been emptied. Even Britain can’t even defend itself now.

 

I read that Poland has enough in their military Arsenals to last in a fire-fight for about two days.

 

So the Western alliance has completely collapsed! It couldn’t fight anything now.

 

So that’s completely gone.

 

Biden is hanging on by his teeth. If the war is lost, then the next election is going to be won by Trump. And the European Union, which stupidly followed the Washington line is going to be isolated as the United States collapses, and there’s going to be a Russia – that’s already happening with Hungary and other countries – they are already preparing to make friends with Russia, simply because they won’t have any choice.

 

The omnipotence of the United States, like the British Empire and like the Soviet Union, is evaporating.

 

And that means the two strongest powers, the true omnipotent powers of the world today, will be Russia and China. And Europe, the European Union. If the entire of Europe, from the Urals to the Atlantic Ocean, was a foot, the European Union would actually only be the size of one’s big toe!

 

So it’s insignificant, in world affairs, and it’s increasingly insignificant. The world is de-dollarizing, the West is gone.

 

So this is the outcome of this debacle, this latest NATO debacle.

 

Scott Ritter, the former Weapons Inspector for the United Nations, said:

 

“NATO is Europe’s suicide pill!”

 

And it absolutely is! All it’s good for is creating refugee crises, making the arms or weapons industry very rich, but impoverishing people and killing hundreds of thousands of people! I think there’s been more than 40 conflicts since 1945.

 

Today, the Soviet Union is celebrating what they call Victory Day. I don’t know whose victory it was, but we don’t live in a real world anymore. And I am a victim of those who don’t like the “truth”. Inconvenient history! That’s all I’ve ever written about, is inconvenient history.

 

[11:43]

 

And Russia will today forget. I’ve got nothing against Russia. I’ve always said that the war was against Bolshevism. Soviet Union, Bolshevism. There was no problems at all from Germany or anyone else about the Russian, or the Russian people or the Russian culture. If The Times would be turned back and Putin was in power instead of Stalin in 1942, there wouldn’t have been a Second World War. The Germans and the Russians would have gone on, fine.

 

What they also forget, and this will be an inconvenient history today is over a million in the Vlasav [sp] regiments. In the Vlasav regiments of World War II, over a million of Russians fought on the side of Hitler’s Germany against Bolshevik Russia. Vlasav himself was a former Red Army, a much Heralded Red Army general who saved Vladivistok, … Not Vladivistok, Moscow, rather. He saved Moscow. But he led the Resistance. So that in that respect, World War II for the Russians was a civil war.

 

And they also tend to forget that it wasn’t the Russians who won the war. They wouldn’t have done it unless they were in total collaboration and gaining the support of the West, which they deny.

 

So there wasn’t a Red Army soldier whose tunic was not made in the West. All of the buttons that held the tunics together were made in the United States. All the ships, all the tanks, everything on wheels was made in the United States. All of the railway rolling stock was made in the United States. They couldn’t have done it!

 

So the victory was a victory for three world empires who collaborating together, which was the greatest insanity ever, destroyed a country that was half the size of Texas! If they can call that “victory” and hold victory parades, then I find that they can probably make Father Christmas appear to be truth!

 

But this is the world we live in. We live in a world of total fantasy! We’re fighting to struggle, we’re fighting to avoid totalitarianism, and we tend to forget that we are already living in a totalitarian society.

 

The war is over. Ukraine is totally defeated. They’ve got no chance whatsoever of mounting a counter offensive. The Russians take the policy of:

 

“He who hits first, hits twice.”

 

I think they’ve hit them so many times, the Ukrainians, and, of course, NATO, that the war is decidedly over in Russia’s favour.

 

And when we emerge from it, when the muck flops, it’s going to be a totally different world from that that preceded February 2022.

 

There is no war, not even a 100 years war, that has ever created such a disaster for the West as this war! This NATO war, to ruin Russia. Russia has had 12, 600 sanctions imposed on it. It’s emerged stronger! It’s got a higher GDP than the West, [?] it’s got lower interest rates on absolutely everything. They’ve emerged from. It very successful while we are digging our own graves. There you are. Thank you for the opportunity for bringing you up to date, Andrew.

 

[15:38]

 

Andrew Hitchcock: Well, thank you so much, Mike, for that detailed analysis there. Very, very interesting.

 

And what I’m going to ask Mike about, many of you will know that Mike led the British movement. A political party, for many years, and took over from Colin Jordan, who took over from Arnold Lease. So certainly Arnold Lease is someone that I’ve read a lot about. I’m not so keen on Colin Jordan. I think I can speak for Mike as well there [chuckling].

 

But the reason I mention this is that there’s a guy who’s called Charlie, calls himself Charlie Big Potatoes. Interesting name, but his real name is Kristofer Kearney. And I’ve been following this case because, well, let me read to you from the Liverpool Echo newspaper online. This is from the 8 May:

 

“Charlie Big Potatoes claimed Hitler did nothing wrong. Court told Kristofer Thomas Kearney used the name Charlie Big Potatoes on Telegram when he shared the manifesto of Norway killer Anders Breivik, but said he did not know it was among the library of literature he posted as he just gave it a quick scan. A judge will determine whether posts shared by Kearny were reckless or if the evidence is consistent with an intent to encourage terrorism.

The self described British fascist is part of the Right-wing group known as Patriotic Alternative. He added the main aim of the organisation was not to become minorities in our own home. The Old Bailey heard. The 38 year old, who is originally from Liverpool, told Telegram users ‘Adolf Hitler showed people the way’ and ‘did nothing wrong’.

The defendant, a former soldier in the Parachute Regiment, regularly featured on Right-wing podcasts. He also set up his own channel called Fascist Fitness to hand out exercise and fitness tips.

An image of Kearny with a National Action flag was shown in court, which the defendant said was taken at an anti-grooming gang rally in Darlington. He is said to have been an active member of the neo-Nazi group until a week before it was banned for glorifying the murder of MP Joe Cox.

Kearny was extradited from Spain to face charges last September and pleaded guilty to two offences of disseminating terrorist publications.

He is believed to be the first member of Patriotic Alternative to be convicted of terrorist offences. On Friday, May the fifth. Last Friday, Ged O’Connor, defending, set out how Kearney was unaware he was posting Breivik’s manifesto. Prosecutor Naomi Parsons told the court Kearny’s Telegram channel contained themes of ‘White genocide’, anti-semitism and the glorification of Nazi Germany. Ms. Parsons said:

‘These themes are depicted by violence. There are numerous videos that suggest violence is looming. Violence is inevitable. The evidence is consistent with intent rather than recklessness. It is evident from the defendant himself, the images and words he has said, which suggest he is of the mind that violence is inevitable and that others should commit acts of violence.’

But Kearny told the court he viewed violence as ‘counter-productive’ and when questioned if he believes in violence, responded, ‘No other than in self defense, no.’

The offences relate to two Telegram posts on January 23 and March the 8th, 2021, which disseminated dozens of documents encouraging extreme Right-wing terror attacks, including the manifestos of Christchurch mosque killer Brenton Tarrant and Breivik, who murdered 77 people in Norway. Two other far-Right extreme extremist manifestos related to Texas Walmart, mass killer Patrick Crusius and John Earnest, who shot people at the California synagogue in 2019.

In 2021 he posted a numbered list and links to 89 extreme Right-wing documents. It is believed he was head of Fitness at Patriotic Alternative and regularly shared posts from its accounts such as White Lives Matter banners.

The issue of Kearney’s motivation will be decided on Tuesday before he is sentenced.”

 

[19:58]

 

Now, I found out that the court case was starting at 10:30 a.m., Tuesday, May the 9th. And I thought that he was just going in there to be sentenced because he’d gone guilty. But what he’s actually said I’ve been frantically trying to find things because I thought that I’d be able to present what was put in the media, present his sentence, get Mike’s response.

 

But the best I’ve come up with is this is 3 hours ago as we’re recording this off Twitter. So this is happening at 11:40 am UK time in his court. There’s five Twitter posts, but I’ll read them all together:

 

“Kristofer Kearney is back in the witness box. He is being cross examined by prosecutor Naomi Parsons at a New Tupton hearing after pleading guilty to sharing terrorist documents on his Telegram channel. She is going through some of the documents he linked to. Among them were the manifestos of Anders Breivik, Brenton Tarrant, Dylan Roof and Patrick Crusius, all of whom committed massacres against Left-wingers, Muslims, black people, and Latinos, in that order. And the novel, turner diaries. The Turner Diaries is a novel, which says Ms Parsons, depicts a revolution against the Jewish controlled government which leads to the creation of a new White order after an apocalyptic war.

She says Professor Paul Jackson says it and the manifestos gave moral justification for extremist Right-wing terrorists. Judge Marks asked Kearney if he was horrified at Professor Jackson’s opinion that he was encouraging political violence. He says, ‘He is.’

The court are being shown videos he posted on his Telegram channel. They include one which appeared to be produced by Russian far-Right and included the term ‘White Jihad’, and another which was violently anti-semitic.”

 

So this is pretty much all the up to date information that I can get so far. I’ve also got a statement from Patriotic Alternative on Kristofer Kearney, known as Charlie Big Potatoes. But before I read what they say, their statement on him. Any comments? Mike, over to you.

 

[022:12]

 

Mike Walsh: Well, there seem to be in the British Right-wing at least is a political in-sophistication. We have strong Right-wing movements throughout Europe and they wouldn’t be so foolish to be publishing things like that, certainly without making it absolutely clear that they did not support it. So it’s whether there was an “intent to” and with the likes of Brevik’s manifesto, who was a Left-winger anyway, and gave a clinched fist salute, which, ridiculously, the press said was a Nazi salute. I never ever saw a National Socialist in my life giving a clinched fist salute. But there you are, that’s the press. They turn the truth on its head.

 

But as far as I’m aware, Brevik’s manifesto has been published in the mainstream media! And much of the information that you’ve otherwise mentioned has likewise been covered. So it’s whether it is done with any “intent”. Now, this is where he has to wriggle out, if he’s not diplomatic enough in the first place, to be very careful about what he post. He’s got to make absolutely certain in what he posts that he doesn’t support it. He’s a news reporter.

 

That’s what I do with Europe Renaissance. I’m not supporting violence, I’m not a violent person, and I don’t think that violence achieves anything at all except bloodshed. It never has done. It’s got to be debate, and that’s the way I make it absolutely clear.

 

And this is what he should.

 

But he’s been very unwise in publishing this sort of thing. The days are gone when you could pick up a copy. I used to sell it in the days of the British movement. I was a leader of the British movement for 15 years. Not two or three years like Colin Jordan, but for 15 years.

 

And in those days you could sell the Turner Diaries. It was one of those I did. I used to sell the United States, Army Survival Manuals, and how to make explosives and all the rest of it. You can’t do that anymore!

 

These people need to drag themselves into the 20th century. There has been a quiet revolution which has turned against anybody of conservative thinking. All of my books have been banned, and yet they’re absolutely tame compared with some of the books that he has been perhaps or seem to be promoting! And they’ve certainly got to be a little bit more sensible in what they do, or stay out of comment altogether. We don’t have a free press! We don’t live in a free country!

 

As I said earlier, Andrew, we are living, and we’ve got to accept the fact that we are living in a totalitarian society and we are very limited to what we can do. And we have to be particularly careful about the way we handle world affairs. I do. Everybody else does.

 

But this again explains why Britain, alone in Europe, is showing the smallest Right-wing unity of any of them. Even Sweden has got a far stronger Right-wing than has Britain. The National Front is gone. The British National Party is gone. The National Party is gone. There is nothing!

 

[25:37]

 

As soon as anything reaches any level in which they can potentially achieve anything, a division occurs. It is so predictable. It’s like December the 25th! You know it’s going to be Christmas Day. And, you know, that as soon as a political party, a political movement in Britain, as soon as they get to any strength at all, where they could start vying for some kind of influence anyway, it divides and splits.

 

But you got your Brothers of Italy*. In Italy, it’s powerful! It’s in government!

 

[* Brothers of Italy (Italian: Fratelli d’Italia, FdI) is a national-conservative and Right-wing populist political party in Italy, the country’s largest after the 2022 Italian general election. The party is led by Giorgia Meloni, the incumbent Prime Minister of Italy.]

 

You got Marie Le Pen in France. That if they would hold an election, everybody regrets having voted for Macron. If there was an election tomorrow, then Marie Le Pen, the former National Front leader, would walk it!

 

It’s the same in Spain. Vox is now the most powerful kingmaker in the Spanish government in Madrid. But right the way through. You’ve got the AFP in Germany, you’ve got the Swedish, you got the Danish. Every single one of them is far more sophisticated, politically sophisticated, and aware than Britain. Britain, really, in terms of political activity, is really in the “pram stage”. It’s a Toddler. And I just about give up on it, simply because those who could have done anything with it, like myself, like John Tyndal, like Martin Webster, perhaps, and certainly like the others that preceded us, Oswald Mosley, what a great man he was! Have we ever been in a world in which there was a greater need for Oswald Mosley? There aren’t anymore. But it will take some kind of a social revolution anyway to change things.

 

And as I said before, Andrew, we’re going through a collapse. I’ve just done a story today in Europe Renaissance, the European Union is collapsing. I predicted it a long time ago. I predicted the collapse of the United States. I predicted the de-dollarisation of the dollar, the United States dollar. I predicted a shift to Russia, as did [word unclear] incidentally. So everything is happening just as I predicted.

 

So what you’re going to have in Europe, is you’re going to have a complete collapse of the European Union and one country after another, they’re already starting, they’re starting to shift their alliance from across the Atlantic. America will become self sufficient. It will withdraw all of its bases and all the rest of it. It doesn’t have any choice. It’s being kicked out of the Middle East. It’s being kicked out of the Persian Gulf. It’s being kicked out of Africa, it’s being kicked out of Indonesia. Everywhere else.

 

What we’re saying now is another collapsing empire, which on this day, in which the Russians call it Victory Day, good luck to that one. It just kept coming as I’m going for another 45 years. And the Gulag and everything else we were supposed to afford, it would just put them in charge. But there you are. I hope I didn’t wander off topic there.

 

[28:57]

 

But people have to be more circumspect when they’re publishing things, when they are living, as we are, in a totalitarian state. Britain is in a totalitarian state. It’s only three or four days ago when Republicans who wanted to simply put up placards and hand out leaflets calling for a referendum on the leadership, that kind of sovereignty of Britain, King Charles III, that’s all we were protesting. There was no violence or absolutely anything at all. They’ve all been released without charge, but they were all rounded up. If that doesn’t tell you whatever your views are on the Royal family, if that doesn’t tell you that you’re living in a totalitarian state, then I’m afraid you missed the boat altogether. Thank you, Andrew.

 

Andrew Hitchcock: Thank you, Mike. And I have actually got a conclusion to this Christopher Kearney case, though not the one that I guess most people the sort of final conclusion, if you like. But again from Twitter, where is it? Here. This is from 2 hours ago:

 

“Judge Mark says he will need to have a report from the probation service before he delivers sentence. He says sentencing of Kristofer Kearney will have to be put off for a month or so.”

 

Okay. So there is not going to be any verdict today, which is what I expected. So no doubt he has been returned to prison because when he was extradited to hear from Spain, I believe he was put in Chemlsford Prison [in Essex]. And initially he was going by video link to the court to submit his pleas. But it looks like what we were reporting today, that he actually was in the witness box today being spoken to by the prosecuting barrister.

 

But I want to go over to, … They mentioned in this other post, The Turner Diaries. Now I remember the Turner diaries were being carried on Amazon for many years.

 

In fact, I just checked to see if it was. I checked both the American site and the UK site and it isn’t. But there is something that is being carried on there. You can, however, go to Ebay. And I’ve typed in the Turner Diaries. Yeah. And several results have come up. People are selling it, so it’s very easy to get along with the book Hunter, which was by the same author.

 

And of course, Andrew McDonald was actually a pseudonym of National Alliances William Pierce.

 

[31:39]

 

But let’s go over to Amazon now. One thing that I thought was banned, and I’m sure I’d read about this being listed when people are being tried for whatever they want to call it, hate or terrorism or what have you. One publication that they don’t like is The Anarchist Cookbook. But on Amazon Co UK, you can buy the paperback for 21 pound, 36 Pence. Or you can buy a Kindle edition. It’s had its little Kindle work done. And it’s the original version by all looks of it. I’ll give you the description here:

 

“The Anarchist Cookbook will shock it, will disturb it, will provoke. It places in historical perspective an era when turn on, burn down, blow up are revolutionary slogans of the day. Says the author.

This book is not written for the members of fringe political groups such as the Weathermen or the Minutemen. Those radical groups don’t need this book. They already know everything that’s in here. If the real people of America, the silent majority, are going to survive, they must educate themselves. That is the purpose of this book. In what the author considers a survival guide. There is explicit information on the uses and effects of drugs, ranging from pot to heroin to peanuts. There is detailed advice concerning electronics, sabotage and surveillance, with data on everything from bugs to scramblers. There is a comprehensive chapter on natural, nonlethal and lethal weapons, running the gamut from cattle prods to submachine guns to bows and arrows. The section on explosives and booby traps ranges from TNT to whistle traps. 111 drawings supplement the recipes.

This book is for anarchists, says William Powell. Those who feel able to discipline themselves on all the subjects, from drugs to weapons to explosives that are currently illegal in this country. Techniques, disciplines, precautions and warnings pervade. That what may be the most disquieting how to book of contemporary times available on Amazon.”

 

And I’m just going to look at one review here that I noticed. It says:

 

“With power comes responsibility. First published in the turbulent sixties, this book has attained a sort of cult status for that time. It reflects many of the mores and problems of that generation of young people and is worth it for a read for that, if for no other reason.”

 

But get this:

 

“So far as bomb making and all of that, the book is technically good. But the methodology involving use of nitrogen compounds, particularly red fuming nitric acid and cotton to make gun cotton is fundamentally unsound and unsafe. You could blow a hand off, or worse, very easily following Powell’s directions.”

 

So here’s a reviewer saying that this book could actually tell you how to blow things up. Just maybe you’d be harming yourself in the process.

 

Mike, as someone who had all his books removed from Amazon, did your books give any ideas to people as to how they could make bombs that Amazon still sells books about like this?

 

[34:50]

 

Mike Walsh: None at all. The one of the hated of the most was Europe Arise, which was purely a defense manual for the White people. And that there was absolutely nothing that anybody could object to, but it was White. But the book that you’re just talking about, The Anarchist Cookbook, that was, of course, always a Left-wing book from the 1960s. And I shouldn’t think that if the police were to do their job and the Crown Prosecution Service, if that is what it’s called, was to do their job, and make some up raids in the Left-wing and the black power movement and all of the radical Left-wing movements, they would be able to jail the lot for the rest of their lives.

 

But of course, they’re not interested. The only one that puts the fear of God of them, the only side that puts up the fear of God of them is the conservative Right. And we see evidence of this all the time and they don’t like those who expose government.

 

Now, how can Britain possibly describe itself as a free society when in the high security Belmarsh prison. His Majesty’s Belmash Prison. You have Julian Assange, a genuine journalist, who has never, ever been prosecuted for anything, that he has ever written! Even the Brazilian Prime Minister this week, Lula, he condemned it. Everybody has condemned it. Mexico has condemned it. The entire world is standing up to the totalitarianism of the West, and Britain is in the forefront of that!

 

So when you’ve got the likes of Assange in jail, yet they’re selling, openly, The Anarchist Cookbook, then there is something radically wrong with society. And it is not the radical Right, it is the radical people who occupy the seats of power.

 

And this is what we’ve got to be up against.

 

Now, what you’ve got to be careful of here is that if you were to purchase this book, if you were read it for any reason at all, and the police confiscated it, they could claim, as the gentleman that you’ve just been talking about, is that you’re using it for ulterior motives. So you’ve got to be careful of what you possess. I always said that if you’re going out for a night out, there are so many attacks on Whites by blacks now that you really need to carry something that protects yourself. Now you’re not allowed to defend yourself in Britain. This is against the law, to defend yourself.

 

So if you take a knife, or well, you wouldn’t take a gun, even though it’s legal for you to carry one. No, it’s got to be. You couldn’t do it. But I always said, take a bunch of keys with you, and put your finger through the ring of the bunch of keys and use it as a knuckle duster. It is absolutely devastating! Far more damage than a knife could cause. But it’s legal. How are they going to prosecute you for carrying a bunch of keys in your house? Everybody walks around with the debit card and the credit card and plastic cards like it in their wallet. It’s nastier than any open razor, in opening a face. I did this for the ladies, primarily because the ladies are being attacked by migrants.

 

[38:19]

 

So I said:

 

“Take your card out, put it between your fingers and use it to open the skin of anybody’s faces who attacks you!”

 

And showed them how to stick your fingers up and attack his nostrils and rip back! Or how to give them a belt in between the eyes because it breaks the bone and goes into the eyes, but only at defense! And I have to make that absolutely clear all the time!

 

The British troops, when we had an empire and they were not allowed to carry guns, they carried a rolled up newspaper, because a rolled up newspaper, when you grasp it in your hand and bring up the rolled up bit onto somebody’s chin or into between their legs, is absolutely devastating!

 

But another trick that I always used to say is take a bottle of lemonade, or any bottle of bottle of beer. There’s no law against carrying a bottle of beer home.

 

But if you are surrounded by four or five thugs then you break the bottle of beer you hold onto it’s neck and you got a dozen vicious knives in your hand! At least you’ve got a chance. But this way it is very, very difficult for the state police. I don’t like calling them police officers anymore, just simply because they swear allegiance to the monarch. A lot of people apparently did that a few days ago. But it doesn’t make them officers, does it?

 

So I don’t like using the term “police officer”. Making an oath of allegiance to his majest, in my book, does not make an officer. I came from a society in which an officer was somebody of great competence who took a ship from Liverpool to Rio Janeiro and could do it competently and take it anywhere else in the world. That was an officer. An officer was somebody in the armed forces in the Royal Navy or in the Air Force, the Royal Air Force, or in the army. And they were well, officers.

 

But to relate, police officers I call them “state agents” as they were in Eastern Europe, as they were in East Germany. They were state operatives. And they’re not policemen! I say a policeman because I came from an earlier generation. I see a policeman as a Bobby who helps children across the road who helps grannies who are struggling with their bags and shows people the way. Not these uniformed pretend soldiers that we have now.

 

The people who wouldn’t go into a British Army uniform in case it brought a threat to them. But they wear a policeman’s uniform. I just don’t accept them as officers at all. But there you are. I think again, I went off topic. It’s typical of me. I hope people can live with me.

 

[41:14]

 

Andrew Hitchcock: Thank you, Mike. But you didn’t really go off topic. It was quite helpful because I’ve got, … This is the only self defense DVD I’ve got. I looked into this a few years ago. I’ve never been very good at, … When I was at police training school they used to do this thing you could do extra PE in an evening and stuff like that. There’d be a guy at the front doing all these movements and you’re copying them and stuff like that.

 

But I’m just all over the place.

 

So there were some people from my class and friends of mine that had come along just to watch how I was trying to keep up because it looked like I had Saint Vitus’ dance* or something. I just couldn’t do the moves that the instructor was doing that everyone else had seemed to do. So I’ve always been all over the place for things like that.

 

[* St. Vitus’s dance. Saint Vitus’s dance is another name for chorea, a disorder marked by involuntary spasms of the limbs and facial muscles.]

 

Consequently, I was trying to do the extra classes for, … It was called UDT, Unarmed Defense techniques. But a few years ago I bought this DVD that’s actually quite entertaining as well. The guy who does it, there are some out-takes at the end which are quite funny as well. I suppose that’s not the real reason for getting it. But it’s called “Self defense, empty hands and with everyday items”. It’s by a guy called Franck Ropers. Now, Franck is spelt F-R-A-N-C-K. Ropers. R-O-P-E-R-S. It’s available from Amazon in the UK. At least for about 15 pounds, new. And on the back it says:

 

“An item that can look harmless can become a formidable weapon. To know how to use the surroundings is a basic asset for self defense.

 

Therefore, it’s important to be able to use the improvised weapons found anywhere around you. Thus, a pen, a key or even a newspaper may, if needed, be improvised as a weapon and save your life. To this day, Franck Ropers remains an undisputed expert in fighting. In this video, he shows you his self defense method based on the Indonesian martial art, the “Pencak silat”*, a devastating discipline.”

 

[*Pencak silat is an umbrella term for a class of related Indonesian martial arts. In neighbouring countries, the term usually refers to professional competitive silat. It is a full-body fighting form incorporating strikes, grappling and throwing in addition to weaponry.]

 

And as I say, I’ve watched it and I think I’ll have another look at it actually, because people who listen regularly know watch quite a few things.

 

So I’m going to put that to look at again. Because the way that he does it, he’ll do the move, someone set up scene, someone comes to threaten him, trying to attack him, and then he does it. And then he does it bit by bit to show you what moves where. And it sounds complicated, but believe me, if I could follow it, you certainly can.

 

So it’s something worth looking at.

 

And as Mike says, you have to be so careful with what you possess now. I mean, in Ireland, they’re even looking to pass a law to jail people for having things on their computer that they don’t like. Doesn’t matter if you’ve distributed it or not. And we’re not talking about things that should be prosecutable, like child pornography. We’re talking about a meme that they don’t like, a radio show that they don’t like. You don’t have to have distributed it. If you own it, they can jail you. That’s the law that they want to pass.

 

[44:26]

 

But before we go, I did say that I was going to read a Patriotic Alternative statement on Kristofer Kearney. Now, this went up on March the first [2023]. So let me just read this for Mike now and then we’ll get his comments and then we’ll go:

 

“Earlier today, March the first, Kristofer Kearney, better known online as Charlie Big Potatoes, pleaded guilty to recklessness at the Old Bailey in relation to sharing a number of documents deemed as illegal.

Firstly, it is important to make clear what has actually taken place here. Christopher shared a link to a page on Telegram which contained a library of over 10,000 books. Among those books, which included novels, health and fitness advice, gardening tips, and historical texts were a number of items that are banned by the UK government, including a number of manifestos linked to individuals who carried out unconscionable acts. It is also important to note that the banned items made up less than 1% of the total items in the library.

Secondly, Kristofer maintains that he shared the link in good faith, without full knowledge of what was present in the library.

;

However, he concedes that his actions were ‘reckless’ and as such he has pleaded guilty with a view to a reduced sentence.

Finally, Kristofer was living in Spain when the offence took place and the actions were not committed on British soil, nor were they deemed illegal in Spain. Kristofer also has a young family and his partner gave birth to his fourth child shortly before he was arrested and remanded in custody. He has now spent over twelve months in custody, missing the majority of his young child’s life.

As such, we understand why he is eager to bring these legal proceedings to a close and be reunited with his family. We also understand the severity of the charges.

However, we must stress that the link that Kristofer shared was done so on his own private page. It was never shared to a Patriotic Alternative page. And it was not shared in any official capacity. We completely disavow any form of violence and or terrorism and are completely committed to peaceful Democratic change through our community building program.

This case should serve as a warning to all those using any online platform or social network as to the dangers of doing so under new government anti-terror legislation. By sharing links online from sources that you cannot trust or are unsure of, you may well be putting yourself and others at risk.

We urge all those within the nationalist community to exercise caution when interacting online and remind all those associated with Patriotic Alternative that we have a code of conduct which forbids the use of racial slurs or advocacy of undemocratic means of achieving political change. We also hope that this case will now be swiftly concluded and that Kristofer and his family will be reunited as soon as possible.”

 

So I think that we certainly learnt a few things there, didn’t we Mike, that we didn’t hear in the Twitter posts I read or the Liverpool Echo article I read, didn’t we?

 

[47:47]

 

Mike Walsh: He’s been targeted, hasn’t he? And he’s been very unwise because he’s given them the ammunition that they were looking for. And this is where we’ve all got to be careful. We mustn’t provide the enemy, which is the State, with the ammunition that they’re looking for. So we’ve just got to be more careful than we have done in the past.

 

As I said before, some of these books, they were openly sold. All of the US manuals, I was making reasonable money out of those when I was running the British moment. How to how to make improvised weapons, I seem to remember one of them. And my own book, Behind Enemy Lines, very, very popular books.

 

There is absolutely no way that they could be published today! So, as I say, we’ve slipped into a totalitarian state. We’ve got to accept that. You’re not going to see the headlines in the morning that Britain is now a totalitarian state, but it’s pretty damn obvious you can’t do anything, as the Republicans found out a few days ago during the Coronation, you can’t even hold a placard up now without the permission of the police! And that is a Police State.

 

I don’t care whether you’re Left or Right, Conservative or Labour or Liberal or Green, that is a totalitarian state! We’ve got to accept it and we’ve got to work our way through it, same as other people have done.

 

But they brought by mostly peaceful means, they brought the Soviet Union to this Eastern Bloc and the Soviet Union, actually, they brought it to its knees. There was very, very little violence. There was no violence at all, really, in the how many? 14 or 15 years from 1919 to 1933, when Adolf Hitler was elected, January 30, 1933. A lot of time passed.

 

But as Hitler, who was always against violence, he said himself that there were more people died in the two or three day abortive uprising, the Easter Uprising in Dublin, than died during the entire period of the National Socialist rise to power. So National Socialism and Fascism, it doesn’t have to have violence, just truth on his side, courage, and help those who are fighting on the front line. This is our weakness today. We don’t get behind our leaders, and that’s something that we should do!

 

[50:11]

 

Andrew Hitchcock: Thank you, Mike. And we’ve got a couple of minutes left, so let’s run through quickly Mike’s website.

 

And of course, we’ve got Europe Renaissance.com, which is something that I visit every day.

 

And if you want to go sort of get the most recent articles, you can scroll down to the slider. So there you go.

 

So at the moment, Knife Madness, Merkel’s Mayhem brings an epidemic of knife crime to Germany. Then we’ve got Russian SU 35 jet nearly knocks Polish patrol plane out of the sky over the Black Sea. US presidential candidate blames CIA for JFK assassination. That’s Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Of course.

 

And then, “You can shove your Coronation up your arse”, which is basically what the Liverpool fans were singing, or certainly a significant enough section of them at a recent Liverpool football match, showing that not everybody was behind the Coronation.

 

And I just saw along the top, it just went past me, the slider “Mass roundup of anti-monarchists in London”. And I even saw a BBC article. I was just looking on the BBC site because it was a top headline, where the Met police have actually admitted that they regret arresting these people. I think it was kind of a knee jerk thing. It was a case of:

 

“This is the Coronation, we’re just going to take anyone away that we’re worried about and then we’ll worry about the consequences later.”

 

That’s the way I see it.

 

And so now they’re all quick to apologise now, but they’d have still done the same thing in hindsight, in my opinion, because they just wanted that, whatever you want to call the Coronation, they wanted that to run without a hitch as much as possible. So they might claim to be regretful now, but as I say, I doubt they have done anything differently. What are your thoughts, Mike, before we go?

 

Mike Walsh: Yeah, they’re very selective in applying and dragging on the kid gloves. I remember a long time ago, must be 50 years ago, it was three or four of us, we went to Chester, beautiful city, and we took a part of the payment. We were not under anybody’s feet and we lifted three or four placards up, End Immigration Now, that’s all. End Immigration Now, Keep Britain, White, that sort of thing, very inoffensive. Within two minutes, the police came onto us and removed us. They said:

 

“Take your banners down and move away from here, otherwise we’ll all be arrested!”

 

And that was 50 or 60 years ago. But you’re seeing now these climate activists and all the rest of it, they’re gluing themselves to motorways. They’re calling in the most awful mayhem.

 

Well, I’ll tell you, if those ecology minded people were to lift a placard saying, Keep Britain, White, then they will not see the same kid gloves with them. The people who go into museums and art galleries and throw paint over priceless artifacts and paintings and sculptures and things like that, they get the kid glove treatment. But if any one of them was a Conservative, they would get 15 years in jail and fines up to 100,000! They would bankrupt them!

 

[53:43]

 

So it’s a very political, politicised political structure now, police structure. So the Left-wing can get away with more or less anything. The black power movement, the Black Rights movement and all the rest of it. It seems to me that there’s nothing they can do that is going to end them up in a jail.

 

But we’ve seen the gentleman that you were talking about earlier, just for something perfectly innocent, he should have been a little bit more diligent in what he was sending out. You got to be careful, and he wasn’t careful, so they will grab him.

 

There are lots of journalists out there who are saying things, but they’re not anti-State, so we are living in a totalitarian State. Please accept it and respond to it by working sensibly within it, work within the rules, and that will frustrate the people who want you behind bars. They want you behind bars. Don’t help them, as this gentleman obviously did.

 

Andrew Hitchcock: Thank you so much, Mike. We’re going to end it there today.

 

So I want to thank Mike so much for joining us today on a show entitled “Be Careful Out There”. I want to thank all of you for listening. I’ll, of course, be back with more tomorrow.

 

Until then, folks, have a wonderful day. Be careful out there. And bye for now.

 

[55:56]

 

 

END

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Comments

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(Comments as of 5/10/2023 = o)

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See Also

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Mark Collett — It’s Okay To Be White — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Christmas Adverts – Multicultural Propaganda — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — What We Must Do To Win — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Assad Didn’t Do It – Faked Syrian Gas Attack — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — The Plot to Flood Europe with 200 Million Africans — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — The jewish Question Explained in Four Minutes — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett at The Scandza Forum, Copenhagen – Oct 12, 2019 — Transcript

Patriotic Weekly Review – with Blair Cottrell – Dec 4, 2019 — TRANSCRIPT

Dangerfield – Talking Tough with Mark Collett – Mar 28, 2020 — Transcript

 

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Version History

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Version 5:

Version 4:

Version 3:

Version 2:

Version 1: Tue, May 16, 2023 — Published post.

Horus: We should now be live. I hope everyone can hear us. And right. So I’m Horus and I’m here with Unwashed [Nick Cotton] and Shazia Hobbs. And this is the tribute stream for our dear friend Simon Harris. And I’m sure everyone knows by now that he passed on last week. Which is terribly sad and a horrible shock as well. It came out of nowhere. And I miss him terribly already.

 

And the first question that he and I always used to discuss on our show, European Freedom — which Nick was a co-host on for some time — was:

“What did we have for dinner?”

 

I had fish and chips for dinner tonight. Shazia, what did you have for dinner?

 

Shazia: I had a salad. I haven’t got much of an appetite at the moment.

 

Horus: And Nick?

 

Nick: Likewise. Not very hungry, so I had cheese on toast. Yeah, not much of an appetite for some reason. Keep to tradition, yeah! [Chuckling] Did you enjoy your dinner?

 

Horus: It was lovely. I hope nobody finds this a trite beginning, but this was a tradition with me and Simon. And yeah, like a lot of things I’m going to try and keep a lot of things going. Like the thing that Simon mentioned as soon as we started doing our Harris and Horus show was that we were both bookish types. And I really appreciated that he noticed that, because I love reading books! And he was a man who not only read a lot, but he also produced books. And one very lovely thing that he did, was he sent me a copy of his version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, for Christmas, which I have not read yet. But I’m looking forward to.

 

And one thing that I’m gonna miss about him a great deal is discussing books and learning in general. And I was watching, one of our guests tonight is gonna be Jared George. And No White Guilt. And I watching the stream that Simon did with them. I think it’s called “Red Pill Machine — Simon Harris”. And every time I hear the man’s voice I think of him very fondly.

 

Shazia, I know you’ve been very upset in the last few days. Is there anything you just want to say about Simon before we start introducing guests?

 

Shazia: That is something I was going [words unclear] I just know I’ll end up bubbling [words unclear] I know I’m going to miss him. Now I just want to say a big thank you to the entire community, you know, everybody’s devastated [words unclear] Simon passing and I just wanted to [words unclear].

 

Horus: I think anyone who wants to learn a bit more about Shazia, and Simon’s relationship as well, you could watch a video from about middle of last year where, I can’t remember the name, but the thumbnail is a picture of Shazia with tape over her mouth. And it was about the sort of divergence, and then convergence, of their routes through Counter Jihad, and then on to fuller ethnic nationalism. And sort of the similarities of what they went through and where they arrived.

 

And I would also just agree that people have put out lovely things. I’ve not put out my own tribute, or anything, to Simon. I hope this stream partly functions as that.

 

But I think people have responded with great taste and affection, especially I think Ayatollah put out an absolutely brilliant tribute to Simon almost as soon as he heard the news. It’s just a testament to his ability with words and obviously the respect and the affection he had for Simon. Lovely to see.

 

I mean, Keith Woods put out a great video. So did Jared George. So did lots of people, Dionne. And we are all hit by tragedy, but it’s also heartwarming to see these things.

 

So Nick. Is there anything you want to say about the last few days, about Simon?

 

[05:21]

 

Nick: Yeah. I wonder if I’m in the same boat as you, where I found it hard to sum it up in a little status, or a short video. So I’ve just been sharing other people’s, because they’ve done a really good job of it.

 

I feel like I was really late to the Simon Harris train. But I got fully, fully, on-board! Still not even sure why he invited me to be a co-host on EF [European Freedom] for the first few weeks, because, like I’m not as bookish as you guys! I really felt like I had to keep up. I felt like I was sort of in the presence of giants! [chuckling]

 

But he was just the nicest man wasn’t he? The way he tackled every situation seemed to be measured, but he was also hilarious. We clicked on so many levels! And yeah, he was definitely my best 60 year old friend, at this point. Well, we’ll carry the torch forward won’t we? Like it was always obvious that this Tuesday show was gonna continue.

 

Horus: This is something I never anticipated making friends with people of the older generation, especially as so many of our generation like to disparage people as boomers. And obviously they are, the baby boomer generation. But to speak of them so disparaging, I don’t think there was anything about Simon that fitted with all that really! He was someone who absolutely did care about the state of the world, and where our society was going.

 

And he, well I think he welcomed you on to the show, just, because he saw, just quality in you, and energy! And it’s just a great person to talk to. So it made sense to me immediately. And we made a good trio.

 

But yeah, I mean, for my part, I think I’ve said this on another stream. But I said this to Simon as well. I was very happy to. Last summer I made that video called “Against Brian and Avi” in July. And that was related to Shazia and Dionne being expelled from the TR [Tommy Robinson] movement. I didn’t know if Simon having been in the similar position at that point. He seized on it immediately and just promoted it all over Twitter, and so on. And as did a few other big YouTubers. And Simon then promoted everything else that did, everything! And he was a kindred spirit. And I love that! [chuckling]

 

It’s just, I can’t, the reason I can’t really write a tribute at least at the moment is just, I’ve got very simple feelings towards it, that I can’t really make, I can’t really elaborate upon. I just think he was a sound fellow! And a curious, and interesting, and intelligent fellow! And that’s about all that comes to mind, you know, I just think of him as a good man. Which makes it all the more sorrowful that he just suddenly — suddenly died.

 

But, I think, the huge collection of people who were keen to show love and respect for him tonight, just speaks for itself really.

 

And everyone who’s watching the video, you can see in the description box the list of people that are coming up. And the first guest here who we have on, I believe the founder of White Art Collective, is Jeff Winston! Who is joining us now.

And Jeff you were, along with Nick, the guest on the last show of European Freedom. The last person who Simon invited on on. And welcome to this tribute stream. I hope you doing alright.

 

 

Jeff Winston (White Art Collective)

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Jeff Winston: Yeah thank you guys very much for having me. Can you hear me alright?

 

Horus: Yeah you’re great.

 

Jeff Winston: Yeah, cool. Yeah I’m honored that you asked to have me on. That last stream that we did last Tuesday, I would never imagined that we would be doing this, this week. But yeah, I didn’t know Simon, as well as a lot of people did. But I immediately was struck by just his good nature.

 

And I think I started talking with him about a month ago. And we were talking about music and he was saying that, everything before [after?] 1995 was rubbish! [chuckling] And I think that’s, I was like, yeah no lie detected, I think that’s a pretty true statement. And we were kind of discussing, you know, why that was, particularly. But then he revealed to me that he was a musician and shared that really cool picture of him from his younger days. Kind of looking like a punk rocker with the stiff upper lip kind of thing, going on.

 

And yeah I’m just, I feel lucky that I was able to get on, because we were kind of, we’re like, hey let’s collaborate, we want to bring the cultural and the political wings together. And we were both very much about that. And so I feel lucky that I was able to come on last week, just before he passed. And we were able to, … I think that was a very productive conversation.

 

And I had a number of people tell me that was the best appearance I’ve ever had on anything. And I think it had a lot to do with the host, you guys, of course. But also Simon, the way the conversation was framed. He was a true gentleman as everyone has been saying. And just a curious soul. And he had a way of cutting through the BS, kind of a straight shooter which is something I very much appreciate, and I think the world needs more of that.

 

[11:14]

 

Horus: Absolutely was a straight-shooter! About the way that he would make conversations is interesting. Because every week he sent out show notes and you can tell that he thought about what was gonna make this interesting. So:

 

“I’m not just putting on a stream, just to have a stream. Let’s get something out of this!”

 

And that was one great thing about it. And there’s was always particular things he wanted to discuss. If anything we wouldn’t always finish everything, because it’s like:

 

“Well, I want to cover this as well.”

 

About that photo of him onstage, I assumed that was from before 1995 wasn’t it? [chuckling] It must have been right?

 

Jeff Winston: Yeah, I think that was from, I think that was probably back from the 80s. It had an 80s look to it. But yeah, it was really cool, he’s looking like a rock star there! And I think he’s gonna be remembered like a rock star!

 

Horus: Yeah. And I would say there was a detectable “punkish” edge to his attitude, wasn’t there? Would you guys agree with that, Nick, Shazia?

 

Nick: I mean, totally! Look what’s happening right now. I always like drawing these parallels about how we’re a subculture. And we’ve lost one of our own that’s really important to us. And just look at the tribute lineup that we’ve got! Okay, technically, it’s not a gig, but seriously look at that list of names. It functions in exactly the same way.

 

And yes! He was a punk, or even though, I mean, Jeff it might be fun to talk about his sort of ideas, that he drove forth on Tuesday. How we need to reject the teenager, and how Punk is dead! It was some really interesting stuff that we ended up talking about last week.

 

Jeff Winston: Yeah, and don’t say “counterculture”, all, right? He’s specifically said, …

 

Nick: Yes! Of course!

 

Jeff Winston: [chuckling] Yeah! But what also is cool, … So I hadn’t, I wonder if anybody has any of the footage, or audio of any of that band from earlier? I don’t know if anybody has any of that, but I’d love to hear some of it. I did, someone did send me the links, so I know he’d played in more recently. He had a couple songs. He did a cover tune by Ace, I can’t remember the name of that song off the top of my head, but that’s a really cool tune. Very nice cover by Simon.

 

And then he had an original tune called “Love is a River”. And I’ve listened to that a few times. And he said he wrote that one back in 89. But it was cool. It kind of had a little bit of a, … What he had told me in our conversation about a month ago was like, he kind of ended up getting into like jazz, you know, kind of blue-eyed soul kind of stuff.

 

But he also liked reggae, obviously, definitely, some punk in there as well. And funny how those things kind of do make an interesting mix. But that song that he did, it kind of had a little bit, almost also a little bit of like maybe flamenco-ish kind of thing going on. But yeah, really nice tune. And I love the message that he was sending there. I think it’s, you know, he was just all about positivity and romanticism. He’s basically in the intro to that song he was saying, you know, sometimes you got a stop and just appreciate things, and do the romantic love thing. And I think he’s left a great message for everybody to try to emulate.

 

Horus: For me, I’ve had a lot of people come to me the last few days, saying:

 

“I know how close you were to him.”

 

But, I must admit some ignorance. I don’t know that much about his musical side. I mean, he was a great friend, you know, I wish I’d met him in real life! But I pretty much always engaged with him just about historical matters, and matters of power, and stuff like that. The sort thing that I go to, it probably shows how self-centered I am! [chuckling]

 

Just yesterday I saw someone had shared a clip of him singing on the acoustic guitar, like what you mentioned Jeff. And I’ve never heard that before. And there’s loads of other videos, and loads of things that he did that I’ve not seen. So I’m, you know, I’m hoping his YouTube channel will stay up for a while. Because there’s loads of things that I’ll discover as I go back and watch and go through his stuff. And yeah, …

 

Jeff Winston: I saved that song just in case anybody, just in case something did happen to his channel, I just downloaded it just in case, just for preservation, because I don’t know how those things go.

 

Horus: Yeah. I mean, you know, I’ve downloaded all the episodes of European Freedom that we did. But he’s got years of videos going back. And yeah, I mean, I hardly know anything about his creative side, so I’ll enjoy going through that, with some sadness, I suppose.

 

Nick: I’ll plug the mix-tape that he left for us. I asked him to do us a mix-tape last week, and he got me the playlist in time. And so we have, I think it’s 15 of his favorite songs? So I’ve posted the link in there. And it’s really good stuff! It’s really good!

 

Horus: Name a few of the bands that were on that?

 

Nick: It’s all post-punk. It’s Gang of Four, Public Image Limited, Susie and the Banshees. What else is on there? Magazine, Wire. Do, you know, any of these? I really like this stuff, yeah.

 

Horus: Was he a fan of The Jam?

 

Nick: All that kind of stuff, yeah! Post-punk, and yeah, because I leapt out my skin when I did my first interview with him, and he said he was 18 in 1977! And I was like:

“Oh! That was an important year! Tell me more!”

 

Horus: Was he at that gig in Manchester? [chuckling]

 

Nick: Not that one. But he said that it was tiny. And everyone assumes that it was massive, but it wasn’t. It was just a few people. But he was there!

 

Horus: Way of the World asked in the chat:

 

“Have we got the picture that was mentioned before?”

 

My answer to Way of the World is I’m absolutely basic. I’ve got it on my screen on Twitter. I don’t know much about sharing things. Let me try and share my screen. Is that showing? I’m sorry about this everyone, it’s very unprofessional. Can you see that? Can anyone see that?

 

Nick: Afraid not, my man! If you send me the link I can try and share screen in the private chat.

 

Horus: Will do. I’m bloody hopeless with all of this! It’s just a picture on Twitter. Okay I’ll send you it.

 

Shazia: [words unclear] onto BitChute.

 

Horus: Oh terrific! Okay well done BBJ. Yeah that will help publicize that.

 

Nick: You should be able to add it into the conversation. Now look at that! That’s great, isn’t it! [chuckling]

 

 

Horus: It’s kind of a snarl, but he doesn’t look like a asshole, you know! It’s brilliant.

 

Nick: He’s only an asshole when he needed to be!

 

Horus: [chuckling] I’m sure he, … I bet if anyone took against his family he would be a tiger!

 

Sorry Shazia. Did I talk over you there?

 

Shazia: [words unclear] Just jsaying he was an arsehole to people that deserved it.

 

Horus: I bet!

 

What I’m gonna do, as we’ve got loads of guests coming on and they will sort of overlap. So Jeff, you can stay on as long as you want. But obviously once we get to six we’re full, and you will have to make way for the next person. So just drop out when it suits you really.

 

Jeff Winston: Okay, yeah actually I’m probably gonna drop, because I’m in the middle my workday over here.

 

Horus: Of course!

 

Jeff Winston: On this side of the pond. But guys, it’s an honour you having me on here. I think Simon was a great man. I’m a lot more affected by it than I would ever think I would be. It sucks when we lose one of the good ones. And I think a lot of people feel it. So, …

 

[20:02]

 

 

Horus: It really does. An extra big thanks for coming on while you’re at work. And I hope to speak to you again soon. And whatever we can work on together, I look forward to that, mate.

 

Jeff Winston: Absolutely! And condolences to his family and his friends, and just the broader community. Guys, everyone have a good one.

 

Horus: Cheers Jeff. Thanks a lot!

 

Nick: Jeff.

 

Horus: I’m now going to welcome on, … I was going to welcome on Laura. Oh, here we go! [chuckling] I couldn’t see you there Laura.

 

Hello, welcome to the stream!

 

 

Laura Towler

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Laura Towler: Hello! How’s it going?

 

Horus: I’m doing all right. I’m a bit croaky. How are you doing?

 

Laura Towler: Yeah I’m okay. It’s been a crazy week, or so, hasn’t it? I think everyone’s really kind of being hit by it a lot harder than they thought that they would be.

 

So yeah, I’m okay. I mean, I’m glad that we have the community and that we can support each everyone and we can be there for each other, sorry. But yeah, it’s obviously not the nicest stream to do, is it?

 

Horus: It’s not. And I’m not the best host for it either. But with the help of great guests like you and with co-hosts, Nick and Shazia, we will make it through! [chuckling] I can’t promise anything great. I’m so much more nervous being the host, than a guest. I’m sure everyone can tell. But, yeah, [chuckling] thank you for coming on.

 

Laura Towler: You are doing fine! Don’t worry about it. It is difficult hosting, isn’t it? You think… When I’ve done a couple on my channel I’ve always been like:

 

“Oh you’ve got to watch everything. And you’ve got all the interface around the back and stuff.”

 

But yeah, you’re doing great, so don’t worry.

 

Horus: Well, good, good, good! So, I haven’t prepared questions for everyone. So I’m sure that shows as well. But I just, … If you’ve got any thoughts about Simon that you want to share? Please do.

 

Laura Towler: Yeah, so obviously Simon spoke at our conference, the Patriotic Alternative Conference in March. And he couldn’t actually make it to the event, because of the lockdown in Spain. Which was a shame. I mean, it’s gutting really, because that was maybe the last chance that we had to meet him and it was cancelled, because of the coronavirus lockdown.

 

So obviously he spoke and his speech was very well-received, people seem to really love that. But it’s just that… What if? You know… I wish we had the opportunity to meet him that day. And I know he was very excited about speaking. And I think he was, Mark might mention this later one actually, but I think he was planning on coming to the next conference as well, which would take place in autumn of this year.

 

Simon Harris – My Speech to the Patriotic Alternative Conference – Mar 16, 2020 — Transcript

 

 

And then another thing as well, is that he actually invited me on your show — the show that you guys do with him — and I had no internet at the time, because I’d just moved house. And he was like:

 

“Ah, no worries! We’ll rearrange it for another week.”

 

And then obviously we didn’t get to rearrange that. So I never got to stream with him either, which is a shame.

 

But yeah, I just, Simon reminds me of my dad. Just his mannerisms, he’s very thoughtful, I think. And very kind of well-spoken.

 

And he’s somebody, … If I could say one trait about him, it would be he is somebody who “chased the truth”, and it’s difficult for people I think to change their mind about things in private, but for him to do that so publicly, and to move over… Did he start off in the Left? And then it was the Counter Jihad movement, wasn’t it? And then he moved over to real nationalism. To do that publicly, I think that requires balls! And he was very brave person for doing that.

 

So those are my thoughts.

 

Horus: It’s absolutely true. Shazia, did you want to add something?

 

Shazia: Yeah just to agree with Laura, it takes balls to do that, to do that so publicly. To be a Lefty, he was a Lefty, and then to come to the Counter-Jihad movement. And then, you know, so publicly he spoke about it lots of times, that he became “deranged” when he went down that rabbit hole!

 

Horus: He did. He made a point of admitting that several times that he got “JQ Derangement Syndrome”! [chuckling]

 

Nick: Not the only one! And it was nice to have him there, to guide us through. [chuckling]

 

Shazia: His derangement with the JQ stopped me becoming so deranged, that time! He sort of paved the path. And on that journey I was obviously behind him. [words unclear] … not being so deranged, possibly? If that makes sense.

 

[25:00]

 

Horus: And obviously that “derangement”, as he refers to it, also produced some really good books, which people are still gonna be reading for a long time, as well. From his publishing activities.

 

One thing that’s, … Sorry this is not really relevant to you Laura, specifically I mean. There was a book that he wanted to publish but could never agree, make an agreement with the author. It was about the Stephen Lawrence affair. And I’ve read it. Presumably… I don’t know if it’s in the finished form that I read it, but it was an absolutely earth-shattering book! As far as I’m concerned. I really hope it gets published. So, there’s nothing I can do about it. I’ve got no contact with the author.

 

But, he was, yes, Simon wanted to publish his book and it could have changed the whole country. I mean, when it does come out, I presume it will in some form, it’ll be a very important book!

 

And so yeah, I mean, that absolutely proves, it’s one of many things, that proves what a truth seeker he was.

 

And yeah, he wanted people to know why we’re in the state were in. And yeah, I mean, everyone seems to have acknowledged, everyone seems to recognised that about him.

 

He wanted to figure out the world. And yeah, I love that about him.

 

Laura Towler: The last conversation that I had with him was on Wednesday, and he passed away on Thursday [May 21, 2020] and then we all found out about it on Friday. And it was in the one of the public, well, like kinda private DM [Direct Message] group you can be invited to on Telegram.

 

And he told us that he felt unwell.

 

And I asked him what his symptoms were, because my dad has had coronavirus. He said it was the most sick that he’s ever been in his entire life.

 

And he told me what symptoms were and then I just said:

 

“Have you got somebody to look after you?”

 

And he was like:

 

“My missus will be back tomorrow, and she’ll look after me.”

 

That was the last time I spoke to him. And I know it’s daft saying something in hindsight. But I really wish I elaborated, and just, I don’t know, maybe said some more, something else to him. Because I just kind of said:

 

“You’ve got someone to look after you. That’s fine.”

 

But, what was I gonna say?

 

I think, I uploaded the video of him playing guitar to my YouTube channel. And the comments underneath, if anyone wants to go read them, they’re just so lovely. And so many people are saying:

 

“I never actually spoke to him, but I felt like I could relate to him, and I felt like I knew him.”

 

And lots of people are telling me that they’ve been crying about it, and things. And even people who didn’t know him personally. And I think that’s a testimony really to the impact that he had on the community. When you can relate to somebody like that, and it’s not just a voice, when it’s actually a person and you get to know them, it’s so sad to lose them.

 

Horus: And you mentioned then, I’m sort of, …

 

By the way, Unwashed, I’m sorry, I just kicked you [off] by accident. I was trying to do something else. Come back.

 

About the Conference speech. When he made that speech he couldn’t hear us all, I think. He said afterwards he wasn’t even sure that everyone could hear what he was saying. And yeah, he had no sound coming from our end. But he delivered his speech as though he could, and it was superb! And he’s just kind of a natural performer, maybe it’s just he was just a sort of calm person.

 

Laura Towler: Yeah! I didn’t know that he couldn’t hear us. Because obviously there were a few laughs, and a few claps, and stuff. And it’s a shame he didn’t get to hear them.

 

But I guess, I don’t know, he was sent the audio, I think, wasn’t he? So hopefully they will… I don’t know if they’ll be picked up on the audio, … I think a lot of us told him that he was very well-received. So I hope that he does know that. I think he did know that.

 

Horus: I made sure to tell him after the Conference that it was as though you were there, right. It was as though you could hear us and everything. Because he seemed to pause whenever we clapped and laughed and stuff, so he did brilliantly! He just didn’t know it at the time.

 

Laura Towler: Yeah.

 

Horus: Yeah. It was terrific.

 

So, I’m gonna introduce the next guest. As I said before, Laura you don’t need to leave yet. You’re free to leave whenever you want, but I’m bringing on our guest now, which is Jared. Unless there is any last thing you want to say?

 

Laura Towler: I will get off actually, because I have another stream at 8 o’clock. But I just wanted to say that one thing that we can take from this, is that we should take that flag, or that banner, from Simon now, and take over the burden that he was carrying and continue his journey. And he sought the truth, so it’s up to us to continue to do that. And to spread it to as many people as possible.

 

So, that’s what I’d like to say going forward.

 

But thanks very much you three for organising this. And I also thank you for inviting me to speak. It’s a big honour.

 

Horus: Well said. And thank you Laura as well.

 

Laura Towler: See you soon! Bye bye.

 

[30:14]

 

Horus: See you soon. All right. I will now bring on Jared George of The Great Order. Hello Jared!

 

 

Jared George (The Great Order)

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Jared George: Hello mate!

 

Horus: Sorry, I’m talking over you, please.

 

Jared George: No, it’s quite all right! And it’s good to speak to you and Shazia. Nice to meet you, so to speak, I wish it could be under better circumstances. And Nick, of course, speaking again. Thank you all, as Laura said, for organizing this. I think Simon would be very pleased. I think he is very pleased! Somehow seeing this outpouring of love for him, well deserved, because of who he was and what he did for everyone.

 

Horus: I like to think that he’s enjoying this. I’ve no idea really what comes in the afterlife, but this, it’s a very nice thought, to think that he knows how loved and admired he was.

 

Jared George: I think so.

 

Horus: And your tribute video was excellent as well. I really enjoyed that. I recommend everyone to watch that.

 

Nick: Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. It was really touching.

 

Jared George: Thank you! Yeah it seems a lot of people, we all see the same things in him. I like how you guys were saying before, how he was a “straight shooter”. And he very much was. But then you also spoke about his songwriting and his romantic side. And it’s always fascinating when someone can combine a couple of different traits, that sometimes can be at odds, and really harmonizes them. Especially someone a bit older than some of us, it’s a good, you know, it could provide a good role model.

 

But he definitely hit these interesting balances in a few different ways. And you guys speaking, you know, listening before I came on, it reminded me of another one, the straight shooter. And on one hand, and yet, also being a romantic, on the other hand. I spoke in the video briefly about how he had a sharp mind, but at the same time didn’t have any pretense. And again sometimes it’s hard for people to get that balance right, sometimes they’re skewed more towards one way, or the other.

 

But he really, when you sit back and think about it, he really did have this amazing panoply of traits, or collection of traits, that were harmonized so well. And I think that’s what gave him that gravitas, that charisma, and why we’re all rallying around him, like this right now.

 

Horus: Maybe just to complement that, I see a comment from a Vigilante Jesus in the chat. And says, it’s a quote from Simon saying:

 

“Let’s knock away at the foundations! We need to make forays into enemy territory! We need bands of braves with incredible courage! We can beat them!”

 

[Chuckling] I don’t know, that might be from the stream that you did with him. You and Jason did with him?

 

Jared George: I can’t say I recognize it offhand. We did have some great conversations with him recently on our show, the second to last one, because we did two with him pretty, almost back to back, a couple weeks apart, in early April. Because we caught up with him first, and then soon after he had the Nick Griffin interview, and we wanted to get him right back on to talk about that, that you guys had done. It was interesting.

 

But when we did the first one, I think was on April 4th, it was a lot about his daughter. Jason’s clip included a little bit from that show. How he publicly spoke about reconnecting with his daughter. And he was able to, not only pick up where he left off with her, and have that great bond, he was just glow when he spoke about her!

 

But, he also began to “awaken” her, even though she’s still in the university system. I think she’s in her mid-20s. I don’t know if she’s doing graduate work now. But he was able to bring her over in a short amount of time to a lot of our perspectives. And when we asked him, how he did it, the first thing he began to talk about was love! He loved her, he loves his people, he obviously loved life itself — and that’s what we’re celebrating here and what reverberates throughout what everyone’s saying.

 

And we have to remember that! He was motivated by love! And I said this in the video — he was from Nottingham, and he talked about, the first time we spoke, way back, he talked about how he was from the land of Robin Hood! And that means something to me, too. And I said in the video, and I’ll say for anyone here who might not have seen it, that he did carry that spirit of the “Merry Men”. That you hold a song in your heart, even amidst trying circumstances — you’re gonna have ups and downs on your journey, you know. Even amidst those tough times you keep a song in your heart. That is an archetype.

 

And that is something Simon embodied that we really all do well to remember, in this thing. Because everything that we’re involved in, you know, it’s a marathon, it’s not a sprint! And there’s going to be ups and downs. And Simon is such an amazing example for all of us to keep in our minds and hearts going forward, forever now, in all of our lives in this!

 

[35:28]

 

Horus: You say you’ve got some connection with Nottingham, as well?

 

Jared George: Oh, with Robin, …

 

Horus: In the sense of the “Merry Men”?

 

Jared George: Yeah, that it means something to me. Yeah, not to Nottingham, the place specifically, though.

 

Horus: Do you have any British ancestry, yourself, or?

 

Jared George: Oh I have a little bit from here and there in Europe. I’ll just say I’m very connected to Britain. Yes.

 

Horus: Right. Go on Shazia.

 

Shazia: I have a connection to Nottingham.

 

Horus: Go on, … Oh, yeah, you do actually.

 

Shazia: I was born there!

 

Jared George: There you go!

 

Shazia: I think that’s why we can [words unclear] for Simon. Also, I’m in contact with Simon’s wife, and I’ve told her about all the tributes coming in for Simon, so [words unclear] …

 

Jared George: Sorry. I don’t know if anything was addressed to me, I’m having a little trouble hearing Shazia’s line, …

 

Nick: Shaz was saying that she’s passed your tribute on to Simon’s wife. And I just wonder how it must be for his family to see this wave of tributes just continually coming through YouTube and Twitter! Hopefully it’s really heartwarming.

 

Jared George: Well, Shazia, I tremendously appreciate that! Thank you so much! I was going to say on the stream, if any of his family members see this stream, just to send my love and respect. But the fact that you sent that, that’s a big honor! Thank you!

 

Shazia: I’ll be sending this one as well. [words unclear].

 

Jared George: Mmm. Thank you so much.

 

Horus: Lynx in the Shadows has just put a link in the stream of Simon talking about his daughter and in one of the streams. I think that was one of the ones that he did with you Jared, is that right?

 

Jared George: Yeah, I think it was the first time he spoke about it publicly, about reconnecting with his daughter. Yeah. And amazing in hindsight now. It only happened I think October, or November, of last year.

 

So, another reminder that if life is nudging you to do something, do it! You know, we don’t know what we have. And I’m sure everyone in their family, and his daughter especially, is extremely grateful that they reconnected when they did. I’m sure it’s very bittersweet right now. But imagine if they hadn’t, and then this happened. So it’s a great blessing.

 

Horus: That’s for sure. And it means so many things over the last six months changed for all of us, like in terms of the movement. And I think one brilliant thing about the show that he and I did, was he would just identify almost always the exactly the right guest to bring on. He sort of had an idea of the zeitgeist of the moment, because there is a zeitgeist now. Whereas, I mean, I’d say two years ago I was no part of any movement, in any way. I was just a spectator! Someone who wanted a movement and didn’t have one.

 

And you mentioned the stream that we did with Nick Griffin. One of the most controversial ones that we did. A lot of people took strong sides on either side. And it was, I mean, it was controversial even to have him on, but it seemed important to discuss these things, to challenge ourselves in these ways.

 

Simon Harris – EF 19 – A Conversation with Nick Griffin – Apr 14, 2020 — Transcript

 

And streams we did with Dangerfield and Iconoclast, we were discussing, you know:

 

“What are we as a movement? What are we trying to do at this moment! Not just talking about over the long term, but what are we doing at this moment?”

 

And I think he just had a terrific sense of “the moment”, you know, what we need to be thinking about, what we need to be talking about. Which is why it’s extra painful to lose him, …

 

Jared George: Absolutely! Yeah, I’ll underscore that. He had that artist’s sense, he had his antenna out! And he was always pushing forward! That’s why he did the kind of thing you guys did with Nick [Griffin], that he wanted to air out the questions, and even go into some, you know, difficult territory. He was willing to do that.

 

And yet, he also had a very long sense of tradition. So again, combining these different traits, a real, a real role model! And that will live on.

 

[40:10]

 

Horus: Well said! Well said Jared!

 

I’m gonna introduce now, Dionne, Secret Sources.

 

Jared, you’re welcome to stay on until we get full, sort of thing, or drop out as it suits you.

 

Jared George: I’ll give Dionne her time. But again thank you for organizing this. And love and honor to Simon and his family, and everyone listening. Again, keep him in your mind as a role model. And we’ll all talk soon. But thank you so much!

 

Horus: Thanks very much for coming on Jared.

 

Jared George: Bye!

 

Horus: And Dionne, you’re on. And you are how are you doing?

 

 

Dionne Moller (Secret Sources)

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Dionne Moller: I’m very well, thank you. Can you hear me okay?

 

Horus: I can.

 

Nick: Yep.

 

Dionne Moller: Great. Thanks for inviting me. Hello Nick, Shazia and Horus. I spoke to Shazia this morning before I made that in a stream, or tribute, or whatever it is. I don’t even know what to call it — for Simon. And I’m sorry I have to gate-crashing this way but something came up at home and I had to go out and I didn’t think I was going to get back in time, but hopefully I could. So thanks for letting me gate-crash!

 

Horus: Well, this was your slot and you’ve come on at the perfect moment. and I hope everything is well at your end. I won’t pry over the air. But I hope everything’s right.

 

And yeah, I think your your tribute this morning was just moving in the most simple and lovely way. And it was something for everyone to do at the same time, even though we were in our own homes. Like it was sort of something like, something equivalent to a funeral . And it was obviously happening at the same time as Simon’s real funeral. So, I think that was very well chosen and part of, I guess, of the healing process, the moving on process, or whatever the right term is. So I think you chose well, yeah.

 

Dionne Moller: Yeah, it was difficult to do. Well not difficult, because I didn’t actually say anything until the end. But I knew what I was going to say at the end. And when you kind of build yourself up to it, I don’t know whether you could hear, my voice was shaking so much, because I was crying, whilst I was reciting that funeral prayer. It’s a pagan, Viking, funeral prayer. And I didn’t think I’d be able to get through it without, you know, making a right fool of myself. But I did!

 

But I was glad it ended, I have to say that, because it was hard! Even though really nothing happened. But I think sometimes, … You know, I’ve seen a lot the tributes that are coming out from people. People are just amazing! Fantastic! But oh, I don’t know I like a bit of quiet, and I like, maybe the time to reflect and also the fact that Shazia and I yesterday were in a bit of a panic, because we wanted to do, ..  Well Shazia found out that Simon was being buried this morning, and we couldn’t get a wreath to the place of his funeral on time, because of Corona, and because of the lack of notice, they couldn’t do it.

 

So I was thinking to myself, after I’d spoken to Shazia:

 

“Well then, how can we get together?”

 

And I think it’s quite apt that it was over the internet, because everything we do really, 99 percent of the time, is over the internet. So I thought that was apt. So yeah. Well it turned out like it did, and it actually turned out okay, I think.

 

Horus: And also, … Oh sorry Shazia, you go, …

 

Shazia: [Words unclear]

 

Horus: To You’re really quite, by the way, Shazia. If you could speak closer closer to the mike, a bit.

 

Shazia: It was really beautiful what you did, … [Words unclear]

 

Horus: Also Dionne big credit for setting up the GoFundMe for people to send  tributes, .. Sorry for people to send some support to Simon’s family,  which is still going I think. I think Carrie will post that in the chat in a moment. Yeah, and we hope to send a wreath in the first place, didn’t we?  But it will go to another use instead, to Simon’s wife and daughter, I imagine.

 

[45:23]

 

Dionne Moller: Well, I’m trying to be as transparent about this GoFundMe for Simon, as absolutely as possible, because when money is involved, you know, I like to have everything clean and clean cut.

 

So yes, the original idea was to be able to send a wreath to Simon’s final resting place. But it turns out that, because Shazia was so fantastic in, and you Horus also for, getting hold of the number, we managed to get hold of Simon’s wife in time. And she actually said that she was going to buy flowers from us to put on to Simon’s grave this morning. And that if she could, she would send a photograph.

 

So that wreath, or those flowers were actually put on his grave, hopefully, this morning. And, of course, she will be reimbursed fully for that wreath, and plus everything, all of the money that is left over in that fund. Which at the moment is in British pounds. It’s well over three thousand pounds that’s been donated so far. So people have been extraordinarily generous! It is absolutely heartwarming to see. I didn’t expect it. But my god, I don’t know, I’m kind of blown away by people’s generosity!

 

Horus: And about the online element of, like you said, it was an online sort of equivalent to a funeral that you did this morning. [words unclear] As far as I know, none of us, …  Shazia you met him in real life, is that right?

 

Shazia: I didn’t.

 

Horus: You didn’t?

 

Shazia: I was supposed to meet him in 2017 and I cancelled going to that event . Then I was looking forward to meeting him next, …  [words unclear] So no, I didn’t meet him and that’s what I find really strange that I have this much sad now, for a man that I never met. You know, I just knew him online, like so many other of us.

 

Horus: You didn’t cancel the 2017 thing, because you were scared to meet him, did you? [chuckling]

 

Shazia: [words unclear] I was too scared to be seen out in public! [nervous laugh]

 

Horus: Right. So quite a serious reason then.

 

Shazia: [words unclear] I was not scared of him! [laughing]

Horus: [laughing] Not a scary bloke! But imagine if he gave someone a proper tongue lashing he could be quite scary, but usually in a well-meaning kind of way. But he was generally a friendly chap, wasn’t he?

 

Shazia: [word unclear] would think so.

 

Horus: I mean, I said earlier. But I mean, that all I ever knew from him was support. I mean, it was literally from the moment I made my first interesting video, till the day he died, it was just constant support and encouragement and friendliness.

 

And I think I haven’t really accepted — I’m sure others feel like this as well — I haven’t really accepted that he’s gone yet. Doesn’t really seem real. But, well, we’ll do our best to get used to it, bit by bit, I suppose.

 

Dionne Moller: That’s the thing with sudden death, Horus. You know, my mum she was ill with cancer for very long time before she died. So I think psychologically you kind of say to yourself:

 

“Well at some point my mother, or whoever it is, is going to die.”

 

And you kind of get used to that idea. But when somebody dies suddenly, and unexpectedly, it comes with such a blow, that you find that people react in different ways.

 

I’ve read people’s comments, … And Laura Towler, who was just on right now, said herself, she wishes that she could have probed deeper into how Simon was feeling that night.

 

And this is a very natural thing to do. To kind of blame yourself for something that youcouldn’t possibly have any control over. Because it’s one of the mechanisms that we have to cope with the fact that we’ve lost somebody that we loved, and liked, and respected, unexpectedly. So if all of this is a very, very natural reaction to Simon’s death.

 

[50:23]

 

Horus: Yes, comforting to hear. Like I feel like I took him for granted and I think I will still feel like that. But to hear you say that, it helps to sort of diminish the guilty feeling at least.

 

I must now bring on our next guest. So thank you Dionne for everything that you’ve done, and for coming on. Is there any last thing you want to say?

Dionne Moller: I’d like to say thanks to everybody that’s donated so far to Simon’s GoFundMe. If you can afford to, and if you wish to please, donate so that we can help Simon’s wife and daughter get through this really sad and bad time. And yeah, but that’s it. Thanks very much for inviting me, and I’ll even chat. Thanks very much.

 

Shazia: Thanks Dionne.

 

Horus: Thanks Dionne!

 

Nick: Thanks Dionne!

 

Horus: Okay. So our next guest is Gearóid Murphy. Hi Gearóid. How are you doing?

 

 

Gearóid Murphy

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Gearóid Murphy: Hi Horus. And to the other guys as well. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. And I just want to say as well, one thing Horus, you mentioned a while ago being slightly nervous hosting a stream by yourself. But am I think you’ve had what ten guests on already, you’ve had lots of guests and you’re doing a pretty good job as far as I can tell. So, don’t worry about it! [chuckling]

 

Horus: Oh that’s good! I’m glad to hear that, because it’s more self-conscious. When the guest is on it just feels like I don’t have to think about very much! [chuckling] But I mean, I’ve got great co-hosts here as well, so.

 

Gearóid, did you speak to Simon often? Obviously I know you were in touch, because you came on the show that we did about Ireland.

 

Gearóid Murphy: I had that show with him, and yourself, and Keith, I think it was. I hope I’m not forgetting anybody! And then a few weeks later it — again I haven’t actually gone back and done a timeline. But it was in, let’s just say the recent past, the last couple of months. Beginning with the stream we did including yourself. But since that time I started streaming a lot more myself, you know. And one night, the next stream I had with him, I saw him tweet about the pandemic, that Covid 19 and the lockdown, when it was just getting started in Spain, and in Ireland as well.

 

And he tweeted out that he wasn’t sure, he didn’t know what to make of it. That he was both skeptical, but also, you know, respected that it could be real, or was real, or well, you know, he had a perfect kind of a logical, rational take on it. And characterized by uncertainty. He said:

 

“I’m not really sure what to make of it. And I have an open mind, and I’m not dogmatic about either side. You know, this complicated narrative war.”

 

And I thought that’s exactly the take someone should have, an intellectually rigorous person should have. I love the uncertainty of it. That’s where I am, too. So I DMed him on Twitter and said:

 

“Would you come on and talk to me about it?”

 

And he did. And what was nice about that, obviously, is that he had, I don’t know, a big channel, or is a big kind of name in this scene in the UK, which is much bigger country than where I am. If anyone knows me, it’s mainly in Ireland. So yeah, much bigger name, I don’t know, more clout, whatever you want to call it.

 

And he just said:

 

“No problem.”

 

And that was about five hours before I had him on. You know, I didn’t give him notice, either. And he said, “sure thing“. And he came on and spoke to me for, I don’t know, an hour and a half? And that was a really nice conversation we had about that. It was about that, but it was about many more things as well.

 

And then the last time we spoke, the third and final time, was I asked him to come on and explain Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, to me. And which turned out to be, … it was very gracious of him, because he wanted to go deep dive into Primo de Rivera. And I had to just reel him in and say:

 

“I don’t even know what happened in the Spanish Civil War, you know!”

 

Which must have been hard for him, because he had to totally simplify it to my level! But he did! He did it without being resentful, or annoyed. He said:

 

“Okay. fair enough. I’ll baby step you through the whole thing.”

 

And we just had a great chat!

 

And so I don’t know, that’s all I ever knew of him. I never got to meet him. I’m sure I would have had met him. And I was looking forward to doing so, actually. But that’s life.

 

[55:00]

 

Horus: That’s right, there was a lot of us. I imagined he really enjoyed baby stepping through it, because that was kind of a labour of love for him. He was working on these videos and his book about it. But obviously, it isn’t finished.

 

By the way, I just wanted to say “waaayyy!” because you mentioned Jose Antonio! And that was a running joke through [chuckling]me and his show! He mentioned him every week for about six weeks! And then when he didn’t, I mentioned that he hadn’t mentioned it, to kind of rib him about it. And then it became something we had to mention every week. I think we didn’t the last week, or two, that we did the show. But it was a running joke until then. So I’m very glad that you cucked! I don’t know if you meant to. But I’m delighted that you mentioned him!

 

Gearóid Murphy: I didn’t know that he had spoken about him so much in some shows that I didn’t see, and all of that. But what a passion he had for Primo de Rivera! I can’t say that guy’s full name every time. But, and oh my god! He was like just so invested in that man’s life’s work. So I don’t know, in a way maybe if you want to, … and again I speak from a position of I spoke to him three times for three hours, which albeit small and non-physical, I feel like I did get to know him a little bit, you know, more than you might think in that period of time. And through watching his other stuff.

 

But I think maybe, you know, from our perspective from a distance if you wanted to pour over some works of a Primo de Rivera, or translations if you can’t speak Spanish, you’re almost getting to know and converse with Simon a little bit. because clearly it wasn’t just like reading for him. And I don’t know, maybe that’s a kind of a therapy, you know, to read that and just think:

 

“Oh yeah, he obviously knew this page and that page, because he was so obsessive about it.”

 

Horus: No, go for it.

 

Gearóid Murphy: I don’t know what I was gonna say in! [chuckling]

 

Horus: Okay. Just, because you mentioned about how you could feel like you knew the guy almost immediately. Nick, would you feel the same, that almost and as soon as you made contact with Simon, he just feels like a familiar person?

 

Nick: I think I felt that way the first time I saw him streaming with Dionne, because I wasn’t really familiar with him until we started talking. I’d seen him on one stream and then went:

“Okay, I want you on as a guest. You’re a lovely man!”

 

Yeah . I just remember the stream that they did, thinking:

 

“I want to know him!”

 

And I’m very, very glad that I got to.

 

Horus: Have you got a cat there, by the way?

 

Nick: Oh yeah, she’s always scrambling for attention. Sorry.

 

Horus: Does she want to say something about Simon?

 

Nick: I don’t know. I mean, she was always watching every week, so she was a fan just as much as anyone else. I think she’s short on words now. she’s gone shy.

 

Horus: And about Jose Antonio, as well, I believe Keith is gonna be our guest in a little while. And his tribute, he said that his favorite Simon Harris video was one of the episodes of the series that Simon was doing about Jose Antonio, as well.

 

One other great thing, but that, was that Simon would say, “Jose Antonio a Primo de Rivera” in the proper accent!  And, you know, better than any of us. So that’s another thing I’ll miss. [chuckling] Yeah, that was a mainstay of European Freedom! Every week Jose Antonio  got a mention. it’s pretty fitting that that you had him on to talk about exactly that, I think.

 

Gearóid Murphy: Yes. It was so strange as well — and you can just cut me off whenever you want to here, or give me a warning. But I learned about it [Simon’s passing] through,  and I think a lot of people are mentioning this kind of how strange this is. But I learned about it, I was streaming with two lads the other night. One of whom was Keith. And it came up in the chat just towards the end when I was getting ready to wrap up the show. And I just start seeing Simon Harris, PM [Private Message] in the chat. And I just couldn’t address it. I don’t know, I felt like is this tactful to do it, or not? Whatever. But I just thought like, I’m just gonna say goodnight and I’m gonna have to verify that, or something. It’s too strange just at the end of a chat, I don’t know what’s true, or what isn’t. But it was so strange and rattling to learn it that way. Kind of in a way insensitive.  Not that I blame the chat, or any of that, but just such a strange way to learn something like that.

 

[60:00]

 

Horus: Could it be true?

 

Gearóid Murphy: Slightly, but like, you know, understandable too. And then, yet I only ever knew him through streaming, and here we are and I’m streaming in this way. So it’s just such a strange experience in that way. And yeah people mentioning how they felt like they knew him. I just thought he felt kind of like — and again I might be overstepping the mark to anybody. He may have nieces and nephews, I don’t mean to make any comparison. A sort of a kind of an uncle slash friend type of guy.

 

There was one thing he mentioned in our stream, the long stream we did just a general conversation, he mentioned this festival in Spain that he goes to. He said it’s a festival about spring onions, or something like that. And how as he described it, a lot of back-slapping and a lot of swigging wine from the same bottle . This kind of festival just great fun, or whatever. And I said at the end of our stream that I would like to join him at some point. And obviously he said:

 

“You must come over. We’ll go, I’ll take you out.”

 

I had it fully in my mind that I was going to do that next year, the year after, the one after that, whatever!  But it wasn’t a flippant commitment. And I don’t know, he’s just that kind of guy.

 

 

The other thing as well, I would rate him as — like I sometimes within the movement think about the person who you would bring to a barbecue. You know, some people are intellectuals, some people are this and that.

 

I have this thing called the “barbecue test“. Like would you bring someone to a barbecue with your normie family, or something like that, right? And would they be able to speak to someone in a way that isn’t necessarily a political rant? And he would be maybe my number one guy. I think he could listen to someone, and engage, and have a good time and sing a song, drink a few beers, you know. And that’s what I think of him.

 

Horus: And he would drop in a deliberate red pill bomb here and there as well.

 

Gearóid Murphy: For sure! One or two.

 

Nick: On that note, I always had Simon pegged as the one person that I wanted my folks to meet, so that they would feel okay about all of this! I genuinely thought, if only I could just introduce them to Simon, then they’d just be like:

 

“Okay. It must be fine! This guy’s normal and like us!”

 

Horus: Keith, welcome! Do you have a barbecue test for people, as well?

 

 

Keith Woods

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Keith Woods: Yeah well, it’s funny hearing that, because yeah, that’s very relatable. I mean, I remember the first time I was talking to Simon, he did seem strangely familiar. But I think there was something about Simon, I have some family in the UK around his age, and I think he’s very representative of a certain generation of British, and Irish people as well, that are just good decent people. That kind of had their good nature taken advantage of. And he went in search of answers. And your show Horus, … I mean, Mark Collett’s show is probably, you know, the sort of the main show of this online space, whatever. But I’d really started enjoying yours and Simon’s show. And it turned into great show for the hot topic of the day, the big discussion. Whether it was the debate with Nick Griffin around electoral politics, or whatever else, you know.

 

And I think the reason for that is, because Simon himself was only interested in truth, and kind of honest inquiry. And so he always had his finger on the pulse because he was always genuinely looking for the same answers his audience were.

 

And it’s a strange thing like I put up the tribute to him and I mean, here we all are, you know, people that didn’t meet him personally. And there were so many people under my video said that they cried when they found out, or cried watching the video. And they were expressing sort of bemusement at it as well, that they were so emotional for someone that they’d never met.

 

And it is a weird thing, because it’s like I’ve been a few years kind of interacting with the space, listening to podcasts and following YouTubers, and so on. It’s never happened before that one of these people passed away, and it’s a weird thing, because it’s like when I heard Simon died, I went and watched the last show he did. And it was a weird feeling the last five minutes of the show, as it’s ending, you know, like Simon and many other people it’s like, you invite them into your home, and in a weird way it’s kind of an intimate experience, and you don’t realize how attached you are, or how much you feel like this person. And it was a strange feeling watching the stream knowing it’s the last time you’ll ever hear this man.

 

And yeah, it does make you really appreciate what a great guy he was.

 

Horus: Couldn’t agree more! Nick has said like that European Freedom should carry on. I got to tell in all truth, I don’t know if I’ve got what it takes to carry on, Nick. But I mean, I want to contribute, I want to do my bit. But I don’t know if I’ve got that same sort of continuous resolve that he had, or the ability to do , … I don’t know I’ve got my finger on the pulse quite so well.

 

[65:23]

 

Nick: I’m not sure it matters whether you do on your own. What’s important is that we have to, right? it’s not really an option on this one!

 

Horus: Well especially like Keith put his finger on like what was so valuable about it as well. I mean, is absolutely a good idea. it’s just, we’ll have to talk about it more in the next week.

 

Nick: No, I know what you mean, because he was so right about the zeitgeist thing. Especially in the last few months. Because we started off having quite broad discussions that were supposed to be sort of timeless. We were like:

 

“Okay, let’s unpack this word! Let’s see what this means.”

 

But then, the last couple of weeks it’s been like:

 

“We need to talk about this! This has been bubbling under the surface and I’m gonna rip that plaster off and make sure that we talk about it.”

 

That seemed to be Simon’s aim. Which made it sort of the unmissable point of the week! It was the most interesting point of the week, I think.

 

Horus: I’m delighted to hear that. I fully agree. And yeah, this is under the surface, let’s bring it to the surface . That is incredibly valuable! It’s dynamic!

 

Keith Woods: And he was the perfect person for that because, you know, everyone associated, loved him. No one had a bad word to say about Simon. And it was always clear that there was absolutely no ego involved. And that if he was taking a position it was, because he thought it was the best and the right position.

 

Even when me and Gearóid were on after the election, we were having like a mild disagreement, over like sort of an approach to electoral politics. And Simon was like the perfect mediator and all these discussions! You know, he was totally reasonable, and he could you could see both sides. And he’d gone through all of these sort of intellectual journeys himself. So he was the perfect person to face up to these conflicts and get a good resolution that everyone could agree on.

 

Gearóid Murphy: Mmm.  For sure! There’s one thing as well that before we streamed that time he messaged me. I think he might have said it on, or off, camera, I don’t know. But he told me he had been binging on my videos. And it was such an alien concept to me, because I don’t know if you ever get this feeling, or some of you do, or maybe it’s just me. But you kind of go, there’s a part of you that kind of wonders why anybody might watch you, you know? That kind of imposter syndrome! And to think that this guy who, you know, I think he’s a little bit of a big deal and all of that, would say something like that. It’s quite nice!

 

And a lot of people, even if they did do that, they might not say it to you, you know, they might not want to put themselves, humble themselves so much before you, or whatever. But he had no problem saying that. It felt good! [chuckling] It was nice of him to say. I appreciated that.

 

I don’t know if I should get, … I’ll probably be in someone’s way, so will I just knock out one, or two, more bits of spiel, and, … while I have a chance to?

 

Horus: You can, … I’m going to introduce Alison in a minute. You can still be, you know, …

 

Gearóid Murphy: Oh, okay, I didn’t know, …

 

 

Horus: And he wasn’t just being kind, was he? He was doing it because he recognized quality and he wants to encourage more people to come forward. To be surrounded by interesting, strong, voices and stuff. So I have the same thing even with a following of just a couple of thousand people. If I see someone who’s got only 50 followers, but they’re doing good stuff, I just want to push them forward, you know. I want to be crowded out, if anything.

 

Nick: That was clearly his focus! Because that applies to, like all of us! He gave me a leg up. He gave you Horus a leg up. Keith just said the same thing. Yeah! And I think that was pretty unsung, as well. I don’t think anyone really noticed that until today.

 

Horus: Well, I always keenly aware of it, because I noticed that every video that I put out, he was going:

 

“This is, …”

 

Well, I don’t blow my own trumpet, but:

 

“This is extraordinary stuff!”

 

Like, yes! Cheers mate! Terrific! [chuckling]

 

And so, as I say, Gearoid, I’ve got to introduce Alison now. I don’t know if there is any quick thing you want to say?

 

[70:00]

 

Gearóid Murphy: No, no, go ahead.

 

Horus: Okay. Well you guys just stay as long as you want. Obviously if I have to introduce the next person in ten minutes, I’ll have to boot one of you.

 

Here is Alison Chabloz. Welcome Alison! How you doing?

 

 

Alison Chabloz

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Alison Chabloz: Hello! Can you hear me?

 

Nick: You’re quite, quiet. I don’t know if there’s a way to fix that.

 

Alison Chabloz: Yes, I’ve had a some device problems over the last few days. Is that better?

 

Horus: Yeah, it’s a little better.

 

Alison Chabloz: Okay. I can also pump my volume. That’s it. That’s maximum. I’ll try to speak up.

 

Horus: That sounds good, sounds good. Hello Alison. When we had you on European Freedom that was one of my absolute favorite ones! We talked about fascinating things that night. So I have a very happy memory of that. I think there was first time, … no it wasn’t the first time you and I spoke. And I assume that wasn’t the first time you spoke to Simon, either.

 

Alison Chabloz: I was trying to remember. I’m not sure whether that was perhaps the only stream I’ve done on your show. I’m not sure whether we were perhaps guests on another show, at one point. I’ve spoken to Simon quite a bit in the background. As people have already been saying, you know, he was always very supportive and very level-headed, and very sensible. And an absolute blessing to our little scene!

 

So yeah, it was a big shock, a big shock! Black Friday, can we say that day? It will remain in the annals. Well it was a Thursday he passed away, but we found out on the Friday, well I found out on the Friday. Just so sudden! As Dionne was saying it was such a shock, and that we are such small things when it comes down to it. We really do have to live each day as if it could be our last.

 

And yes, it was always an honor to talk to people who are intellectuals of the movement. I don’t consider myself to be an intellectual! I consider myself to be a minstrel! [chuckling] And, of course, Simon and I had that in common. He was also a musician.

 

And another thing we had in common is that both our dads used to work in the same town. So there was already a kind of brotherly sisterly feeling. And as others have said, yes he’s easy to talk to and authentic! Authentic in a way that the messages of support and condolences I saw on Saturday just say it all about how loved he was, and always will be. He will always be remembered. And he did great work. He himself was on a journey, I think. And he talked about those different parts, those different parts of his journey with openness, and as I say, with authenticity! A treasure. He was a treasure.

 

Horus: Well said. A lot of people in their sort of 60s, and 70s, they think, not that they know everything, but it just becomes less interesting to learn about the world. You get that sense, not at all with Simon. You sense that he was accelerating in some ways, he was grasping life more enthusiastically than ever, it seemed to me.

 

Alison Chabloz: Yes. And I think it was a Gearoid, I’m sorry if I don’t pronounce your name correctly, but, …

 

Gearóid Murphy: That’s okay.

 

Alison Chabloz: [chuckling] My gosh I lose track because I am suffering from exhaustion, apologies. It was just the authenticity and the level-headedness, and you could see from his tweets that he was also quite a figure within the Spanish political scene. How he explained how he worked with the Catalan Independence movement before realizing that this wasn’t the right path for him to go down.

 

And we can see it with all of us, I think, as the tyranny increases and as the oppression, and the New World Order, there’s a big, slow, heavy, gear shift at the moment that the language was becoming more weighted! The language of Simon’s tweets. And the fact that he was also not only implicated in politics back here, back in his homeland, but also his adopted homeland.

 

That’s another thing we had in common. I could have easily been in Simon’s position. After my first university degree I went to Spain. That was in 1987, where I spent a year. And I lived in Barcelona briefly for about three months. Like, I could speak good Spanish back in the day! that would take a while to come back.

 

But yeah, he was a lovely man and a great friend. And it’s so grateful that he, and, of course, everybody here on this platform, the host of this show, Nick and Shazia, that you approached me. All of you approached me, and Simon as well, and talked about my case. And I apologize for talking about me, but it means so much to me, and it always will. People who have been courageous enough to point out the discrepancies and the authorities’ treatment of me, musician, singer, in this supposedly bastion of the free world! And Simon was there for me, and therefore I’ll always be grateful and always remember him with utmost fondness.

 

Horus: When you and I did a conversation, some six weeks ago, something like that, I said to you, I think that I really didn’t pay attention. I used to see this hashtag, whatever, people saying, “Free Alison Chabloz”, or:

 

“Why are you talking about free speech, but, you’re not talking about Alison Chabloz?”

 

I simply, I think I ignored your case for a while, and I just I didn’t realize the significance of it. And when I did, I sort of thought:

 

“Well, I’ve got something to make up for, I guess. Or just to get on the right path, you know.”

 

But obviously, … I don’t want to go into anything confidential, but you’ve got a special reason for mentioning this at the present time. So I totally don’t blame you for talking about it.

 

Alison Chabloz: You’ve tweeted out the article. I don’t need to go into it anymore  tonight. It’s not the right time, or place. But yes, the fact that the authorities would like me to be unpersoned, but thanks to Simon, and yourself, and Shazia, and many others, well I think the authorities were rather concerned, …

 

Horus: I mean, I was just looking at Jared’s channel The Great Order before I came on. He had a video that he’d cut out from his longer chat with him with Jason, No White Guilt, as well. And it was just, I think the title of the video was something like “Simon Harris Red Pill Machine“. [chuckling] That’s a brilliant appellation! I mean, whatever goes on his gravestone, which is nothing to do with us, but on his “virtual gravestone” you could have “Red Pill Machine!” and that’s a nice, not to sum up the whole of his character, but is one great thing to attribute to his name.

 

Alison Chabloz: Yeah, and another massive quality that he had was the tone of voice that he would use to put across his ideas, and his thoughts, and his questions. It was always just absolutely perfect! He had that way of putting putting himself across. The tone of voice which I can kind of hear as I’m talking about him and his voice. Yes, he really did have a wonderful voice in every sense of the word. And thank goodness, you know,  all these recordings will live on. His voice will live on by this legacy that was his gift.

 

Horus: It certainly will. Yeah, he was such a genial fellow, as well. And I must say Gearóid, I’m sorry I’m mispronouncing your name as well, I will have to remove you now to make way for Mark. But thank you very much for coming on.

 

Gearóid Murphy: That’s all good. Thanks for having me. Rest in peace Simon.

 

Keith Woods: You can drop me out as well if you want.

 

But before, I would just say one thing. I mean, we touched on it there, and I’m sure Mark will as well, but the fact that he set up his show in such a way that he wanted to kind of rip off the plaster and sort of resolve any contradictions, or any problems, he saw.

 

And he was obviously motivated by getting people on the same page, and having unity, and having people go on the same journey he did. I think if there’s one thing he definitely be proud of its the fact that here we all are tonight and he’s got, you know, people from the UK, and Ireland, and the US. And the show was called European Freedom, and here everyone has come together to honor him. So I’m sure he’d be more proud of that than anything. So well done to everyone.

 

Nick: Here! Here!

 

[80:37]

 

Horus: And just before I do introduce Mark, I saw Alphago in the chat say “Minstrellectual”. [chuckling] I think that goes quite well for him. So yeah, thanks for coming on Keith. You obviously you can stay on, or drop out, you know, when the next guest comes on. And yeah, cheers mate!

 

And so I will now introduce Mark Collett. Welcome Mark! how you doing?

 

 

Mark Collett

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Mark Collett: Hi. Yeah obviously I think we’re all a little shell-shocked by what happened. I think you were the one who told me something was wrong. You were texting me, I think it was late Thursday night, wasn’t it, saying, … or was it late Friday night?

 

Horus: Yeah, late Friday night.

 

Mark Collett: Friday night, saying you thought something had happened. And I immediately went onto his Facebook, because I was Facebook friends with him. And obviously my heart sank, because I saw the kind of messages that were being left on his Facebook wall. And I knew then, that what we all had feared after what he said in the karaoke chat:

 

“Had taken a real turn for the worst.”

 

And obviously, we lost him!

 

And the first thing I’ve got to do is say, not only was Simon very, very valued in our community, and very much loved, but he will also be very, very much missed! And he is someone that has been taken from us far, far, too young. He had so much to give. He’d already given so much.

 

But Simon was one of those guys that you felt would be in this for the long haul. I mean, I’ve got to say that I offer obviously my condolences to all of his friends and his family. And tomorrow night I’m going to dedicate the whole of PWR to Simon, to his memory. And if all of you guys want to join me, just drop in whenever you can for five minutes, or ten minutes, and give your thoughts on Simon. That would be fantastic!

 

PWR’s, in one form and another, being going now for over 150 episodes, that’s for three years. And we usually get very, very healthy viewing numbers. And I think Simon’s been a guest twice. He was very, very welcomed and very much loved by the community and the people who watch PWR. And I think that it would only be a fitting tribute for me to give him an entire final episode, so that we can all remember him. And so that can go in the PWR archives. And so we really all have something where we can come together.

 

I know you’re doing this tonight. But I just I couldn’t have gone ahead with the show. We had a show planned with Emily Youcis. Now, I just couldn’t have gone ahead with that and not given Simon a full episode to honor his work.

 

And the reason Simon’s work is so important, or the reason I feel that Simon’s work is so important, is  Simon was a very much a man’s man! He was a tough guy, but he could also acknowledge when he was wrong, he could acknowledge when he had taken the wrong path, and he was very thoughtful. And often those two things don’t go hand in hand. Often people who are strong men struggle to admit when they’ve taken the wrong path. But Simon was not only a strong man, but one of the great things about listening to his work was there was that clear evolution of who he was and what he believed in, a journey of truth that he was going on. And that journey of truth had taken him to the ethno-nationalist community.

 

And I’ll give you one of my reflections of Simon. And this is something that will live with me for the rest of my life. The last time I spoke to Simon privately, just mean him talking, he talked to me about the sadness he felt that he couldn’t make the conference in March. And me and him had a bit of a heart-to-heart. And he said he was very, very disappointed, because he didn’t feel that he got to truly experience meeting everyone. He felt that this community was a home, but he said the conference to him was meant to be like a homecoming.

 

[85:00]

 

He wanted to be in a room with people he felt were his political family. And I said to him at the time, I said:

 

“Look mate, don’t worry about it. There’s gonna be more conferences.”

 

I said:

 

“I hope you’ll join us in September.”

 

And he said:

 

“Of course I will. I’m gonna be there. I can’t wait to meet everyone!”

 

And reflecting on that final private conversation with him, it brings me an awful lot of sadness, because he was a man that had so much to live for. I know he was a slightly older gentleman, but he still had so much fire! So much passion! And after going on this long political journey, he felt like he’d found his home. And he just wanted to come home to us and meet us all, and be in the company of people who he could be himself around.

 

And it will always be a lasting sadness for me personally, that I never got to shake his hand, and I never got to meet him in person.

 

[86:03]

 

Horus: There is a tragic note that brings a tear to the eye. Yeah. I think it’s a lovely idea to have open house tomorrow. It’s sort of something that a lot of people do after someone’s dying, and before the funeral, or the wake afterwards. So I think in a way that’s what you’re doing. That’ll be a lovely thing to have tomorrow.

 

And when Laura was on earlier I said, and I think Shazia and Nick agreed that Simon’s speech, he couldn’t hear us. He couldn’t hear us applauding and laughing and stuff.

 

But we thought he could, because his speech came across so naturally. So it’s tragic that he was prevented from coming to the conference. But it is lovely and something cheerful to remember that he still did that much and he gave us something. I hope he got something out of it as well. But it is still lovely that he managed to do that much.

 

Mark Collett: The one thing that I do feel happy about though, is that at the conference when he said he couldn’t speak [hear], I know his speech wasn’t perfect in the sense that he didn’t get to hear us. And he was quite upset that during his speech he couldn’t hear the crowd. And it’s very difficult to speak to a crowd of people if you aren’t getting any form of reaction. When you speak on a show like this, you see the live chat, and it gives you real feedback to how things are going.

 

But his speech was superb!

 

But I am happy that even though he couldn’t attend on the morning of the conference we still moved everything around, we changed the order of the speakers, and we still made sure he could appear, even if it’s via videolink. And even though he wasn’t there in person, he was there. And that day he inspired so many people, as he’s been inspiring so many people for so long.

 

And when I say he went on a journey, some people go on a journey of discovery on their own. But the beautiful thing about Simon’s life, is he went on that journey of discovery. And it wasn’t alone! He took hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of people with him on that journey! And he led them to the truth, to this community. And I believe that Simon should always be remembered as a strong, heroic man, who always sought the truth.

 

And he didn’t just seek it for his own personal gratification, or knowledge. He sought the truth so he could help others. And so he could help others to that truth with him. And that’s what makes him stand out as such an incredible man! And a man that we’re all gonna miss so dearly.

 

I used to remember – this a little personal reflection of mine. But in the chat on a Wednesday night of PWR, you would always see Simon in the chat. And when he’d come in and say hello to everyone the chat would light up with:

 

“Hi Simon!”

 

To think that this Wednesday will be honoring him, but we won’t see his name pop up in the chat, we won’t see that string of really fast messages all saying:

 

“Hi Simon! How are you doing? Enjoyed your stream last week. Looking forward to your next one!”

 

That’s something, that very, very sad. And it’s very moving.

 

Because I know this community sometimes feels disjointed. And I know that it isn’t as close and as organic as it should be, because of the geographical separation between us. And the fact much of our work takes place online. But no one could ever accuse this community of not having heart.

 

And it’s moments like this. I know this is a very sad time, but seeing everyone being pulled together, and seeing such a genuine outpouring of love for such a wonderful man. I really hope he’s smiling down on us. And I really hope that he seems today, tomorrow, with all the tributes shows that are going on, just how much he was genuinely loved! And just how much he will be missed!

 

[90:43]

 

Horus: Yeah, I think he was a man who wanted to take us on the “truth journey”. And he wanted us to be there with him. He wanted us to be there alongside him. That’s the way I  see it.

 

Mark, if there’s any last thing you want to say? I’m gonna introduce St. Harrison, who’s the next guest.

 

Mark Collett: No I don’t want to take any one else’s time. I just want to thank everyone who’s here tonight. Please be with us tomorrow. Everyone who’s here now is welcome, even if it’s just two minutes, five minutes, just to come on and say hello. We will be spamming that link to the GoFundMe throughout the entire show.

 

So that if anyone wants to donate to his family they can. And just to reiterate what I’ve said, he was such an incredible man! He went on such an incredible journey. And it will always be a lasting sadness for me that I never got to shake his hand!

 

Simon Harris we will miss you so much my friend!

 

Horus: Well said mate. I’ll be there tomorrow.

 

St Harrison, welcome mate.

 

 

Saint Harrison [91:50]

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St. Harrison: Thank you for having me.

 

Horus: Cool! Yeah, so how’s things?

 

St. Harrison: Well, it’s very somber evening. But, it was weird wasn’t it? Because normally he’s quite active in our group chats. And then it’s kind of, … We’ve had not heard from Simon for a couple of days, … Maybe Simon’s had a day off, because occasionally people have a little rest from Telegram.

 

And then we found out what’s happened. And it’s kind of a case of, you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone.

 

I mean, I never spoke to Simon personally. I never got around to having a Harrison & Harris stream. Which would have been fun I think, because he did have the same sarcastic sense of humor as I do. Although I’m not sure what I would have called it, because he said he didn’t like how I titled my videos! And when he said that I thought:

 

“What a tart!”

 

[Horus chuckles] But then that might have been, because I took the piss out of him a bit in a video about the PA Conference! When I said:

 

“He appeared via video link, like someone who couldn’t be arsed to accept an award!”

 

But he knew I was joking.

 

I mean, the first video I watched of Simon’s was one about the “Three Girls” drama he did a few years back. And he pointed out things that are completely missed in that program. And how they just focused on the uselessness, rather than the racial element.

 

And then I started watching him more when he was covering the Catalan issues, because he was over there. He was obviously knew what was going on. And he was raising points again that I, and probably others, hadn’t thought of.

 

I know he came in for some stick I think a few times, for being an Englishman abroad, but like Dionne, Chris, Jake, he still cared about us, cared about England. And wanted, right until the end, he was pumping out stuff for the cause.

 

I think the good thing is that the wealth of content he’s made, it’s still there for everyone to watch over. And we can all bring over the higher intellect newbies to his videos. And he still got his European Freedom site as well. So his hard work, won’t go to waste. I think that’s what he’d want.

 

Horus: I think it’d be a struggle for anyone to cast doubt on his commitments to the cause, wherever he lived. And he spoke himself about how it was some discomfort for him that he lived abroad, where I think he said as he got older he would have liked to have returned to Britain. I don’t think he had any plans to.

 

About that Three Girls video, I watched that one a couple of months ago, because I was doing research for these videos I’m releasing at the moment, …

 

St. Harrison: Yeah.

 

Horus: And that is one minor source of regret for me, that he won’t see the Sixth Part of this series I’m doing. Because that discusses Three Girls as well. It’s not all about that.

 

But, yeah, I mean, if there is an afterlife, … Well he might have better things to do! [chuckling] But I hope he gets to see these last three parts of these videos I’m doing. Because I took some inspiration, … Sorry, say again.

 

[95:02]

 

St. Harrison: You never know, there might well be an after life! And if a comment in the chat appears from him, we’ll all shit ourselves! [Horus chuckling] But it will be for a good reason!

 

Horus: I mean, he might appear tomorrow to do with customary reply in the chat for PWR? I don’t know. It’s nice thought! It’ll be a comforting thought. It would be like ghosts, when Patrick Swayze manages to, … I’m cheapening it. Sorry!

 

St. Harrison: Are you cheapening ghosts, or are you cheapening the evening?

 

Horus: Oh, I’ll go with the first one, that gets me off the hook! There we go. [laughter].

 

I mean, I loved his sense of humor. He liked to rip people! He likes to throw some things out there. It was good. It was challenging.

 

St. Harrison: Yeah it wasn’t all serious was it? He wasn’t, … Although he sometimes came across as quite serious. I know when you two do your streams and you’re talking about the “Cathedral”, and half of us haven’t got clue what you’re talking about. And the other half understand. But then he’d also come out with these witty comments on Twitter, and in his videos as well. So he did appeal to everyone across the spectrum, which I think there’s another reason why he’ll be missed.

 

Horus: Such an easy guy to get along with. Vigilante Jesus, in the chat, has been putting in some of Simon’s tweets, and quotes, and stuff. And it makes you realise, apart from many other things, he was also quite a wordsmith, as well! I mean, we all know he was, he was a writer as well. But he could also be pithy as well. He’s a man of many talents.

 

Speaking of “The Cathedral”, Ralph is gonna be our next guest. I’m afraid Ralph, if you’re listening, there won’t be time to discuss “The Cathedral” tonight, unless you’re speaking about spiritual matters! Yeah, in that sense, yeah.

 

Which, of course, Simon did mention several times. He had a growing attraction to the Christian faith. I don’t know how orthodox. But I mean, he spoke of how much he got out of spending time in churches and cathedrals. And obviously he’s in the right place for that in Barcelona, as well.

 

St. Harrison: All that Catalan stuff was good as well, because he went out there a couple of times in the street and spoke to people. And he was saying how they didn’t have a plan for what they were going to do after. I think that’s something that he certainly brought to us in our plans, in knowing that it’s all very well us having an end point, so to speak, but no more with everything afterwards, ..

 

Horus: Yeah, whether it is the end, or not. Kerry Boomer just put in the chat an apt quote:

 

“Everyone in the Spanish government are cunts! — Simon Harris.”

 

And I think Nick shared that one earlier as well.

 

Nick: I did, I did! I saw that someone else had. And I just thought maybe, we should keep this up as a thing, because I’m sure there’s years of quality tweets. [Horus laughing] What I was gonna say about “The Cathedral” and struggling to follow it. This is a good thing about Simon’s channel is that some of them do require a re-watch. Some of them you probably can’t digest it at once. So it’s gonna be worth going back to it.

 

St. Harrison: Definitely! Because I didn’t understand it!

 

Horus: About “The Cathedral”, it is somewhat counterintuitive, and, …

 

St. Harrison: It’s far too big brain for me.

 

Horus: Yeah. I mean, it entails thinking not in terms of people. But in terms of roles as Ralph would remind us.

 

I’m gonna introduce Ralph in a moment now. I’m gonna have to drop out for about five minutes, because one can’t wholly sustain three and a half hours without some physical movements. God! I made that sound worse! It’s basically, what I mean, is I’m gonna need a wee. [laughter] But once I’m introduced Ralph, I will know that he’ll be able to talk for a long enough for me to go and come back. I’m not being emotional!

 

St. Harrison: I’ll drop out if you like.

 

Horus: Okay mate. Thank you very much coming on.

 

St. Harrison: Thank you for having me.

 

Horus: Yeah, excellent, and speak to you soon.

 

St. Harrison: Speak to you soon. Bye all!

 

Horus: Cheers mate! And Ralph welcome to the stream! How are you doing?

 

 

Ralph Masilamani (Right Reaction) [99:28]

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Ralph: Oh it’s quite moving listening to all. Evening everyone! How are you Nick, Allison, Shaz, Horus? But yeah, quite moving listening to it all. Yeah, I’m still quite in shock to be honest. I still could can’t believe he’s not there is. I only spoke to him a few days prior to the event. Yeah, I don’t know if you want to hear my, I guess, my journey with Simon. It’s quite a different one from you chaps.

 

I first spoke to him on the phone I think two and a half years ago. Because out of the blue I had a couple of friends when I was working my way around the movement, figuring out what was going on. And I had a couple of people kept saying:

 

“Do, you know, Simon Harris? Do you know, Simon Harris?”

 

I was like:

 

“No. I have no idea who he is.”

 

So, and they kept saying:

“Oh, I want to be introduced to Simon.”

 

And eventually I thought will just screw this! So I just reached out to Simon directly, out of the blue, and I said:

 

“Look I don’t really know you. I’ve been reading some of your blog stuff that looks really interesting. And can I just introduce you, … And you don’t know me, can I introduce you to random people?”

 

And he was so warm and said:

 

“Of course no problem.”

 

So I hooked up these, perhaps up to three people, that way. And then we spoke. I mean, we communicated by email maybe five, or six times from 2018-19, just randomly.

 

And then eventually I think I finally spoke to him, and properly, with you Horus on that first stream, where the three of us were, right? I think you remember that one. We talked about [word unclear] nationalism. And you say don’t mention, the “Cathedral”. But I think I have to, because what’s remarkable about Simon was we did those great streams that people liked about the Cathedral. And then he wanted more of them. And then he thought:

 

“This is just too much for me, and I’m gonna have to think about it.”

 

And before I came on tonight I counted, in total, he’d watched 37 different Neo-reactionary videos! And sent me about 40 different emails, and documents, and comments, as he was trying to reconcile his entire worldview against its all Neoreactionary madness, right? And I think it speaks like volumes, the fact that he was so like diligent, and dedicated, and just determined to understand something, that he put his mind to. And I had to check, even though he said:

 

“Okay, I’m gonna have to go back to my Spanish series videos.”

 

It was only like eight, or nine days ago, the last message going:

 

“Is this what that means? And this is what that means in Cathedral and Neoreactionary thinking?”

 

So I think it’s a speaks volumes to a man who has such, I think integrity intellectually, on that level. So that was all the Cathedral stuff.

 

And then on the personal stuff it’s quite interesting. Because, I think of my final phase at Simon, is I’m stumbling my way to all this kind of social media personality nonsense. And obviously we all make mistakes. And Simon was always there for me going:

 

“No pull that video down. Don’t say this, say that.”

 

And he was a great mentor. It was always very humble, very egoless, always replied very promptly to all my communications. And I can’t think of anything to spite the character of the man. And I genuinely feel like even though I’ve only known him for a short period of time, I feel a very personal lots I feel like the movement has lost a great man, and a stalwart, if you like.

 

And I think there’s one thing we should take from this is we should, do Simon’s memory justice, by giving our best for what time he would have wanted to. And that’s kind of my views on that.

 

Nick: I think the word “mentor”. I think that’s the word that we’re gonna agree is the word of the night, isn’t it? Because he’s given that to so many people. It seems like most of the people that have come on he helped them move on in some way.

 

[103:04]

 

Ralph: Yeah, I think even the personality, he was quite, yeah, I think the word “integrity” springs to mind. Because I remember even with my last stuff – I know the cathedral stuff can “mind-fuck” people – he just was determined like, you know, like Dastardly and Muttley in the Wacky Racist cartoons!   He was just like:

 

“Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!”

 

He just wanted to know.

 

And even when he thought like:

 

“Okay we’re done with this.”

 

I thought:

 

“Right, I won’t hear from Simon about the Cathedral.”

 

He just kept coming! Because he just wouldn’t let go of how to reconcile like his Third Position worldview against this stuff. And I think of, good gosh a man 60! And he was healthy, which was really bizarre. I’ve had the Covid, it’s been as bad, quite horrid really. And I spoke to him, and I could tell he wasn’t well. But he was very reticent to kind of share things. But didn’t take long for me to think:

 

“Right. You’ve got the same respiratory stuff.”

 

But he seemed very like, almost like, calm about it. And I know exactly how he felt, because I’m living it right now, or have been for six weeks. And I noticed even in that sickness he was very calm.

 

So I knew something in my spider-sense, I knew something was wrong. Because he always replied the next day, at the latest. And I hadn’t heard from over two, or three days. And then Horus was on the horn saying:

 

“I haven’t heard from Simon. Have you heard from Simon?”

 

And that point something was this kind of like visceral feeling you get. A kind of spidey sense. And yeah now we know, obviously. So yeah, it’s thoughts and prayers with Simon and his family, obviously. And, you know, great stuff with Shazia, Horus to do what they’re doing here, so.

 

Horus: You’re a Christian aren’t you, Ralph?

 

Ralph: I’m afraid I have, yes. [chuckling]

 

Horus: Don’t worry. I’m not criticizing. I mean, I’ve only known him for less than a year, or something, actually. Something I noticed he mentioned increasing, I first noticed when we had Jacktion on. Jacktion will be on here later, as well.

 

But when we first had him on the show, Simon’s first start talking about faith. I mean, maybe he’d been talking about it for years before. But it was the first I was aware of it. And did you talk to him about matters of faith, at all?

 

[105:07]

 

Ralph: It came up really in a very strange way, because we were talking about the cathedral stuff. And then I laughed, because I like Gaudi. I said:

 

“Well, you know,   you live in Barcelona. So obviously you have this [word unclear] of Sagrada Família, and stuff like that.”

 

And then we had two little conversations, and he asked me about how my faith changes my worldview and politics? And how does it feel like, have I ever been without faith? And I never asked him, I think it’s quite rude. I mean, personally I don’t like to inquire about people’s faith, unless they tell me first. But I could always sense there was something there. I wasn’t sure if he was a Christian, or used to be when I was young. Or was rediscovering his faith. But there was definitely something in that conversation, because I can tell by the tone.

 

And when we went through the Sagrada F amília, we did all the kind of mechanical stuff. And then I was like:

 

“Oh yeah.”

 

And I’ve been to a few churches, and we spoke about architecture in Barcelona, and Gaudi, specifically. And I would say:

 

“Yeah. But I was obviously going to the church, also to go to church.”

 

And I could tell there was something there. And that’s quite common I think, lots of people typically in their latter third of their life, do look for something beyond. So that would not surprise me if he was, let’s just say, rekindling his search for the spiritual.

 

Nick: I’m gonna have to listen to the very first one that the three of us did together, again. Because it ended up in that kind of zone, didn’t it? Where, do you remember this Horus? Where Simon was sort of looking straight at the:

 

“Do you believe in God question.”

 

And us and the whole audience were basically silent. [Horus chuckles] The only time when I’ve been on a stream when no one was saying anything, and no one minded. It’s amazing!

 

Horus: [chuckling] You’re a Christian too, Nick?

 

Nick: Ah, yes! Yes! It’s very, … Part of that is:

 

“Who done it?”

 

If you look at the map of what’s going on, and go:

 

“I mean it does say that in the book.”

 

Horus: Part of that is a matter of identity.

 

Nick: There’s all sorts in there. But I like teasing him with this concept of “good and evil”. Like:

 

“Do you believe in good and evil?”

 

Because, if you do, I don’t believe you can be a proper atheist. I don’t know. It was a fun conversation.

 

Ralph: Yeah. And it’s funny even with the cathedral stuff where we spoke a lot about, because I’m hoping to get Dr. E Michael Jones, now that things have lifted again, to have a debate with a big Christian chap at Speaker’s Corner. And I was talking to Simon about “blood and soil” and the ethnos without the logos, and I could feel even there he was like:

 

“Well, we need a spirit. If you’re an atheist you need some spiritual sense, right? There’s got to be some, … It can’t just be blood and soil right. It must be blood and soil and spirit.”

 

And he kept asking questions, that were questions a lot of people ask. I’d like to say spiritual, but not sure what that spirit means. They think there’s more than just mechanics. So he was definitely a very, very curious, very cognizant of spirit, for sure.

 

Alison Chabloz: So Ralph there is a famous pilgrimage, not far from Simon’s part of the world, the Santiago de Compostela. I was wondering if he knew about that. I am sure Simon did. I think I remember him saying something about that. Quite a lot of people that I know as well.

 

Ralph: Do you mean the actual famous, you mean the actual trail. Yeah that’s during the Reconquista when the Christians finally reconquered in the period going up to 1492, and the Reconquista, and taking out the Muslims. There’s a famous pilgrimage trail that marks all the – I’ve been to parts of it – that marks all the Spanish churches that literally were burned and fought over as a battle fault line to evict Islam from Europe. So when you think of the Reconquista, we think of the Santiago de Compostela  as that kind of fault line, if you like, between Christianity in Europe and the rejection of Islam.

 

And it has some of the most beautiful like baroque and Gothic churches. Very, very interesting fusion, Romanesque churches. If you’re ever in that part of the world it’s worth it just for the architecture. And it’s obviously quite a famous pilgrimage. So I think that’s what you’re referring to, I think, right?

 

Alison Chabloz: Yes, that is right. Yes.

 

Ralph: So yeah, that’s his part the world. I think Simon mentioned it. I think he mentioned he’d been mapping it for I think Spanish political reasons, as much as religious reasons, right. Because it’s quite significant in Spanish politics, as well. It’s a kind of fault line for cs.

 

Horus: Ralph, thanks for coming on. I’m going to introduce Dan the Iconoclast now, is there anything, any last thing you want to say?

 

Ralph: No. Well, god bless Simon and his family! And my thoughts and prayers are still with his family. Great stuff chaps for all the work you’ve done for this.

 

[110:04]

 

Horus: Yes, there’s no accident that Simon invited you to our show, I think, three times.

 

Ralph: [chuckling] Indeed. He made three mistakes! Have a good one guys.

 

Horus: Cheers for coming on. I’ll speak to you soon.

 

Alison Chabloz: I shall also say goodbye. Thank you very much, and well done for hosting this important stream. Thanks a lot. Good night everyone.

 

Horus: Thank you very much Alison.

 

Shazia: Thank you Alison.

 

Horus: Dan. Welcome! How are you doing?

 

 

 

Dan (The Iconoclast)

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Dan (Iconoclast): Hello! Well yeah, all things considered I’m doing okay mate. How you guys doing? It’s been a good show so far, lots of good guests coming in, lots of people paying their respects. It just goes to show how much Simon meant to basically everyone. And none of us met him in real life! Isn’t that a testament to the man?

 

Horus: It is literally none of us.

 

Nick: No, none of us! I said that in my PA wrap-up. Like, out of everyone, I wanted a pint with him, the most. And I did intend to go to Barcelona at some point. Mainly to get out of the UK. But now, I don’t think any, … Wait Shaz, did you? No you didn’t, did you. You pulled out of something that was supposed to happen. So yeah, none of us.

 

Dan (Iconoclast): Yeah, it’s funny, because at times like this you get all reflective. And you think back to all the times you interacted with Simon.

 

And the first time I came across him was three years ago, when I started my channel for the first time. I think it was only about a month, or two old. And he started messaging me on Twitter, … Again like many people have said tonight, just with words of encouragement and saying:

 

“Oh I really enjoyed this video of yours!”

 

And just compliments galore! And I didn’t know who he was at the time, and I checked him out. We chatted for a while, learnt who he was, a British guy living in Barcelona. He had a really interesting life story.

 

And it was a shame. Because the week before he messaged me I was actually in Barcelona, I was on a holiday with my girlfriend. And I thought, if he’d messaged me just before I went, I probably would have tried to see him, or something. Because he was such a warm guy! You could tell he wasn’t a bullshit artist. He wasn’t ill intended in any way. He’s just a good guy! And it came across immediately.

 

You know, it in these circles were always concerned about people trying to, in my case, you know, it’s happened many times, people trying to dox me by trying to get me out into a pub, or something, [chuckling] and sneakily taking a picture! You know, you’ve got to take these things into account sometimes.

 

But I knew Simon wouldn’t be that sort of man. He was a completely honest man. And we chatted for a good while. And then I interviewed him for my channel later on in 2017, about the Catalonia Independence marches. And after that we kind of went our separate ways for a few years.

 

And it all culminated Horus, with me coming on European Freedom a few weeks ago. And it was the first time Simon and I had spoken since then. Which is crazy to think! Now I’m feeling regretful! Because that’s three years that I could have been really valuing Simon as a friend! Whereas we were, you know, it’s funny how this happens, isn’t it?

 

But I guess there’s nothing you can do about it now. You don’t think that this person that you respect and admire, is suddenly just gonna disappear! Nobody thinks that way. So I think we’re all a bit guilty of thinking we’ve got more time with everyone than we do.

 

And that’s what I’ve been thinking about this weekend. It’s such a tragedy, but yeah. I mean, I don’t a ramble on, … It’s just amazing that none of us actually met him in person!

 

Horus: And I suppose maybe it’s extra galling, because you did me and Anne Marie Waters, both of you! [Dan and Horus laughing]

 

Nick: Good way to address that elephant in the room!

 

Dan (Iconoclast): [chuckling] Well, here’s the thing, I knew Simon and Anne Marie didn’t get on. But I don’t actually know the story as to why. And I was hoping that he’d tell the story to me one day. Maybe he told it somewhere else, and I can watch it back. But yeah, thanks for that Horus, that’s a nice reminder! [chuckling]

 

Horus: I’ve said to a few people, I just assumed, 100 percent assumed, that I would have years more of sort of friendship and comradeship with him. I just had no thought that he wouldn’t be around. And that’s probably just my self-centred nature. I just take people for granted sometimes. He was certainly one. His age didn’t occur to me. And I just thought, as I said earlier I thought he was accelerating, you know.

 

[115:00]

 

Dan (Iconoclast): The thing is mate, like yeah he’s 60 years old. But that’s not old these days! I mean, my dad is 60 years old, my mom is 60 years old. I don’t think if them as “elderly”, you know, that’s just not what that comes into my mind! And Simon, you know, his enthusiasm, and his energy every time you made a video, or whether he’s on a stream. And his humour as well, which is very under-appreciated, by the way, his humour. His sharp sense of humour, which I really appreciated.

 

You would never look at a guy like Simon and think:

 

“Oh, he’s an older guy!”

 

You just didn’t think about it at all. And in our circles age doesn’t really come into it. Which is interesting, because in almost every other aspect of life, that’s something that you would take note of, and it would matter in some way. But here, especially with Simon, none of us thought about that at all! And like you said Horus, you just assumed that you had a couple of decades left with him, because 60, it’s no age.

 

Horus: And he didn’t make much of his age. I don’t think he felt out of place, or anything whatsoever, I think. I mean, there are a few like people, I suppose, in their 50s but he was one of the older ones. I know you Shazia, your friend James Wills is one of the oldest people who was at the PA conference.

 

Shazia: [words unclear]

 

Horus: Sorry, you’re a bit muffled again, Shazia.

 

Shazia: I said he’s 85.

 

Horus: Right. And yeah, I was pleased to meet him at the conference. But yeah, age doesn’t seem to matter that much. I just assumed it wouldn’t, … I don’t know if it did matter in Simon in him dying.

 

But he seemed like he had loads of things on the go. He had loads of thoughts for the future. He had loads of things he wanted to do. He was publishing books. He was writing a book. He had more video ideas than he could make. And unlike me, he never seemed to get too stressed about that! He just did it. But I punish myself for not getting more things done! But he was calm and steady, which was really reassuring to be around and to talk to.

 

Nick: I think that is an age thing. I think he had hit the point where he’s like:

 

“Right. I’m going to decide what to give a fuck about!”

 

And he sort of piled things into and went:

 

“There’s everything I don’t give a fuck about! That can just go! Not gonna bother with that!”

 

But he definitely seemed like he was in his stride. Didn’t he? It’s crazy. We clipped a little bit of last week’s stream for the end of Vile. And just the way he was saying, like:

 

“I’ll see you next week.”

 

Really hit me in the guts! It’s really nasty.

 

Dan (Iconoclast): Yeah, I think with a guy like Simon, people are saying in the chat, he was just coming into his stride. And that’s true. And here’s the thing about him, he had the confidence of a man who had lived a life! Right?

 

I remember when I was speaking to him in 2017. Of course, we’re talking about the Catalonia thing. Because that’s what his passion was at the time. The Independence movement. It’s quite funny actually, if you look back at that video that we did together. I think it’s still on my channel, it must be. [chuckling] Because at the time the Spanish police were cracking down on the Catalonia protests. And, you know, proper civilization at attitudes from the pair of us, we were like:

 

“Yeah, those Spanish police are a bit fascistic aren’t they!”

 

I was like:

 

“Oh god!”

 

It’s a bit cringe to watch now! But Simon and I had a laugh about it on European Freedom a couple of weeks ago. Just how far we both came.

 

But yeah, getting back to my original point there, he had the confidence of a man who had lived a life. And he did live a life.

 

I remember speaking to him about his youth and how he first found himself in Barcelona. He was part of a band, he was a musician. I think he was a part of some sort of weird African band, or something! [laughter] Something very odd, and niche! [chuckling] And I’m just like:

 

“Wow! This guy he really tries a lot of stuff, doesn’t he? He really puts himself out there! He doesn’t give a shit! In the best possible way.”

 

And it’s that honesty that I think really shined through with Simon. That shined through in his content especially. And when you’re just speaking to him as a person. And yeah, I think a lot can be learned from Simon in the way he lived his life. How he did lots of different things.

 

And yeah! I mean, to get to 60 and still be really coming into your element and doing the best work that you’ve ever done! I mean, it’s a testament to him, it really is.

 

Horus: I couldn’t agree more.

 

If there’s any last thing you want to say, I want to introduce The Ayatollah soon.

 

Dan (Iconoclast): Oh no, that’s fine for me, mate. Yeah, rest in peace Simon! You will be missed. But you won’t be forgotten. And I hope people are consuming his content now. I’m really appreciating it in a different way. And I think while I’m here, I’ll just say that it’s probably a good idea if people start archiving his stuff, just in case YouTube get some dodgy ideas. I’m sure people are already doing that, I can’t imagine that they’re not.

 

So, yes. Thanks for having me on. And good show! And remember everyone, you can still donate to the GoFundMe to help his family out. I suggest you do. So, thanks guys. Good night!

 

[120:29]

 

Horus: Thank you Dan speaking of testaments to Simon I think Ayatollah’s avatar says something. Maybe a gesture towards the spirit of Simon in the last couple years.

 

Welcome Ayatollah.

 

Ayatollah (representing TASOB)

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Ayatollah: Evening all. Yeah I must confess I’ve not been able to listen to the stream. So I’ve literally just come on. So I’ve missed it all. But yeah, to be honest I think I spoke for us all, The Absolute State of Britain really, the other night, after we got the news. Which was the most horrendous shock. Put together a bit of a tribute that went out on our Telegram Channel and posted it through Twitter. And we probably said it all there.

 

The point Dan made there about archiving his works a really important one, because it wasn’t just that it was really enjoyable. I mean, Simon, I’ve made this point elsewhere, Simon really could have read the small print on a car insurance policy and made it sound interesting! Or a car loan and you would have been interested in, like consumer finance, having heard about it. He was just that sort of bloke in all sort of facets in his delivery.

 

But it was the fact that the work, a bit like what you’ve been doing Horus, it was unique, in that it was researched. It was so informative.

 

And I always refer back to the stuff about the Protocols, among other stuff. But obviously the work publishing books there’s a lot responsibility in that. And there’s a lot of discipline required.

 

You could do that sort of thing without necessarily be interesting and enjoyable. But in Simon’s case it was, because he just had this way of doing things.

 

But I could sit here and wax lyrical without pausing for breath. But yeah, there’s plenty I could say.

 

Horus: I think the thing that you wrote on Friday night, wasn’t it?

 

Ayatollah: Yeah, it was within a couple of hours of us getting the news. I sought first heard from Shazzia in one of the Telegram groups shortly after midnight. And it was, I think I posted it about quarter to two in the morning.

 

Horus: Certainly came from within. I could tell that immediately. I think you spoke very aptly. And I sense that you didn’t have much difficulty writing that either. I imagine that kind of, …

 

Ayatollah: As I said, at the time to a couple of people I was talking to at the time. For a moment, you know, not a moment, but for a very short time, I felt a little bit better for having done it. You know, there was a small element of catharsis. But even now, you sort of have that thing where it all hits you! Sure he’s not here anymore. And it sort of comes back at you. You’ll be thinking about other things and it comes back at you. And you sort of think, you know, I still can’t quite believe it! It’s just so, it’s so sudden!

 

And just the idea that he’s gone is, it’s horrific.

 

But the other thing, the point, I made in there is, … And I’m sure this has been asked out over and over, because it will be true the vast majority of us particularly. Because I don’t think Simon has been back here to the UK, post the process to really understand what we all understand, which I think the Simon’s case was shortly after myself. It was sort of the latter part of 2017.

 

And in Simon’s case it was very public. He was out there producing commentary and what-have-you at that time.

 

And there’s a particular value in people who make that step over in public view. Not just because they bring people with them. But it’s sort of instructive as well.

 

But again like pretty much everybody else, and we talked about this, I think, yesterday Horus, or possibly I think it was last night, having never got to meet him was just really sad, and really frustrating. Because he must be the most brilliant company. You think of the life he’d led. And I sort of tried to allude to it briefly in the thing we put out.

 

He just led such an interest in life with his involvement in music and all different sort of styles of music. I think is the band he was in Spain, in Catalonia, had sort of songs in the charts. He’d obviously done it’s professionally. He’s got his academic background with psychology.

 

Obviously he was adopted Catalan. But then there was a certain sensibility that never left him. It was sort of certain a certain grassroots, old Left, working-class sensibility which still manifested itself in his nationalists efforts.

 

I mean, we experienced this to agree really, [chuckling] because I was desperate to get him on The Absolute State of Britain. And we tried a couple of times. And in each case, once was just before Christmas, and once was just after.

 

It ultimately didn’t come through, because we’re having technical problems. And he didn’t suffer fools gladly. And I say that as a compliment. We announced for the [word unclear] for whatever reason. The technical problems. I’m not really sure. It just never really worked with the platform we were using.

 

But you knew where you stood with him. That goes a long way. I mean, I love going on the stream. You were on with us briefly as well, on New Year’s Eve. And then Nick was on with me.

 

And to be honest, that that night really was it was predominately just like myself and Nick talking. And Simon just really sort of sat back. And I said afterwards:

 

“I feel like I sort of hijacked that.”

 

He said:

 

“Well no, that’s what I wanted. I’ve got you both on, because I know you can talk.”

 

And that was obviously really flattering. Because in the year and a half before think, post sort of understanding the obvious question, he’d done more for me in terms of deepening and understanding have and the background to it, than anybody, with the stuff on the Protocols and various other things.

 

Which is a big undertakings, as I say. And it involved doing a lot of research. Somebody like me, too bloody lazy to do.

 

But it was also just done in an interesting way. Because he just got that sort of bearing, with the life he led. He was just one of those people who’s got like a good radio broadcaster’s voice. And just delivery, and doing things. He would have been such fantastic company, because I’m sure the stories he could tell, the anecdotes, and things he could talk to you about, and the experiences his own life.

 

It was just, it’s sort of cruel for us all, really. None of us ever really got to enjoy that.

 

Horus: I imagined going to [word unclear] I think the several people have said this.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah.

 

Horus: Shazia, you and Simon’s sort of progression like, intellectually, ideologically, and so on, was linked, wasn’t it, at several different stages. Did you say?

 

Shazia: You know what I really like to [words unclear]. And he moved on, … [words unclear] Simon was. And he just appeared on Gab one day. I hadn’t seen him on Gab. And he appeared on my gab timeline. And I forwarded him. And I commented under what he posted:

 

“How had he been doing.”

 

And he just picked up from there. And that’s really a sign of true kinship. He it didn’t have any ill feeling towards me for not getting to [word unclear] at the same time, if that makes sense? He just welcomed me.

 

Horus: Yeah. He seems to have done that for so many people. And it’s funny what you said Ayatollah, about he didn’t suffer fools gladly. And I was gonna say, as a sort of self-flattery to us all. That’s why he was surrounded by such high quality people! [chuckling] He got rid of all the fools! [chuckling]

 

Nick: Occasionally laid into one, or two, people that really deserved it! Occasionally!

 

Ayatollah: Even then, he did so with real equanimity, right up until, right until the last weeks of his life. You know, did it in a very measured way, that you just couldn’t argue with him on anything!

 

Nick: Gentlemanly.

 

Ayatollah: Oh. Yeah, absolutely! Yeah. But in the Right way. Not in a sort of affete, pretentious, way. Just honest and decent! You would have known where you stood with him.

 

And that was a lovely, on Vile on Sunday, Nick, that was a lovely little thing you included at the end, that just summed him up nicely.

 

I love that photograph, as well. I’ve seen that photograph around. In fact, it was something Simon posted a few weeks ago on Twitter, and somebody retweeted it. Where he’s there, and he’s probably in his post punk days, with his red Stratocaster! You know, I love that!

 

Horus: We did put this up earlier. My technical skills were absolutely novice! But I did put a picture up earlier at the start of the stream. If you watch it back later. I can see Calamity in the chat, has only just joined us. But Calamity if you want to see the picture we’re talking about, you’ll see it in the stream.

 

Ayatollah: I know Dionne did a bit of a stream this morning while his funeral was taking place. I missed that, as well, unfortunately. But I hope his family understand how much we valued him all. And how keenly we feel his lost. I mean, yourself Shazia, and yourself Horus, particularly, you obviously would have been even closer than most of us.

 

I never talked to Simon that much. But I listened back a lot to a bit of the stream I was on with him with Native, also of TASOB. We were a couple of the number of people that were on this Christmas Eve stream. It’s just delighted to be asked. It’s one of those things, … I’ve not been doing this sort of thing that long, it’s like less than a year. And I’m just one bloke on a single podcast.

 

But when you get to that stage where people you’ve been listening to and learning an awful lot from them and really enjoyed listening to for quite a while, it’s just sort of, they treat you as just one of the people within the general effort, and the general cause. It’s quite a flattering thing. And that was a good example of it.

 

But with the New Year’s Eve stream I was listening to that. And again, I was really sad listening to that. I think it was on probably on Saturday, or Sunday, listening to Simon talking about the Christmas’s he had, and how he’d been doing all the cooking. And it gave him licence to sort of edge to Overton Window along for people.

 

And I just thought that Christmas at Simon’s, something like that, just must have been brilliant! I mean, we would have met him at the Patriotic Alternative conference obviously. Well, we were all there weren’t we, in March. And it’s such a shame he couldn’t have made that.

 

Horus: He took dinnertime as an opportunity to drop, … Him being the cook, he took the opportunity to drop red pill bombs!

 

Ayatollah: Yes.

 

Horus: Speaking of TASOB, the first ever episode of TASOB I ever listened to was with our next guest. Which is Morgoth! Who I will introduce now. Hello Morgoth! How are you doing?

 

 

 

 

[131:45]

 

Morgoth

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Morgoth: Hello everybody.

 

Horus: Hello mate.

 

Nick: Howdy!

 

Horus: Welcome onto the tribute stream. And yeah, what was your first encounter with Simon?

 

Morgoth: Well it wasn’t until quite recently, because somebody’s, a fellow has been turning all of my old blog posts into an e-book, which is in different parts. And then Simon got in touch about a month or two back, saying that:

 

“Would I like to have all of my old blog posts in an actual book which I could put on a shelf?”

 

And I just seemed like the most amazing thing ever! But I get swamped with stuff. And I was like, yeah. So we were going to do that. And he even sent me a kind of graphic thing that showed me what it would look like. Having a solid hardback book of all me old edgy blog posts. And I might still get that done, just as a little thing.

 

But a thoroughly decent bloke. So sad that it has happened And I think just looking at the movement over the last year and a half or so, I remember when it was much angrier and more prone to spergery. And over the last year and a half it became normalized. Which is, of course, what we always wanted. It’s always about waking the normies up.

 

And for me I was happy about this normalization process, because you are getting more normal people coming in. And for me, Simon Harris was the face of that. Because here you actually see his face and he’s chatting away. Here you had a bloke you’d like to have a pint with, as part of the movement. And, instead of just always the most hardcore takes.

 

And I really like that. Because then you can get the information you can get the idea out there. And I think once you begin that normalization process it becomes much more difficult to stop.

 

And so Simon was, for me, the face of that happening. And I really like that. I liked him, as well. I only spoke to him actually on a live stream, a couple of weeks back with [word unclear] and Keith.

 

Horus: Yeah. He’s just a sound guy, through and through. And he had the effect of normalizing things, because he was just very normal, I think! [chuckling] I mean, disarmingly so, for our enemies, I’m sure!

 

Nick: I want to add on. I’m sorry, what you said Morgoth there. When I listen to the Protocols thing, it felt okay to be doing that, because it was Simon.

 

Morgoth: Yes, that’s what you want. You want the bloke that you can sit in the pub with, and he says:

 

“Have you ever read this? What do you make of that?”

 

Because that really gets through to people. And instead of framing it as:

 

“Shock, horror! You’re gonna be blown away by this! And I’m so edgy, and I’m so hard core!”

 

And it gets much easier when you’ve got people like Simon in the scene, I think. And we’ve heard it all night here.

 

[135:23]

 

Horus: Now that you say that, as well, I realize how much he liked to put questions other people, as well. Because that is generally the way to have a good conversation isn’t it? To encourage them to say what they are thinking. And he did that a lot, and I didn’t even [word unclear] until now.

 

Shazia: I like what you said Morgoth your blog and an actual book [words unclear].

 

Morgoth: Yeah. I wasn’t even aware that he did that. I didn’t know anybody could do that, because I’m still amazed that my old blog is still up there. And here I am these days later and you’ve got this fellow saying:

 

“Would you like to put them all into a hardback?”

 

Yeah! That would be amazing! I’m kind of determined to do it now. And just as a little thing for Simon

 

Horus: Is it Morgoth at the Movies? Is an e-book as well, isn’t it?

 

Morgoth: Yeah. I think that’s four all around. We just did My Greatest Hits, which the editor, George on Twitter, put together. There’s a book where it’s all my reviews of the movies and stuff. And then it’s all new stuff. But yeah, it’s Simon’s, … I don’t want to babble about my books.

 

Horus: No, no. But he was a lover of books. I’m sure he would appreciate that. He obviously appreciated, he obviously was an admirer of your work, as well, I think. I don’t want to relate everything to the movement. But it is like having the floor taking out from under us in some ways. Oh, that’s a pretty disparaging way of putting it, “the floor”. But he was a mainstay! He was a continuing sort of influence, he was a steady kind of person.

 

Ayatollah: That’s the thing. I mean, in that respect, yeah, he was, for the reasons everyone talked about. I mean, Nick made a great point there as well, just about normalizing things which in their substance are controversial. Because the person, and Morgoth said the same sort of thing, because the person delivering the information actually seems like a decent, likable, well-adjusted bloke to put it mildly in Simon’s case. He was pretty exception in one of the things he [word unclear] in his life. It makes it more accessible. And in that respect he was exactly the sort of person you want in this thing.

 

And another point I would make. And I’m sure this has been made already. Because I think, I’m not sure if it was Dan, as in The Iconoclast video, or whether it was Keith. But one of the video tributes that came out on Saturday that I listened to, somebody made the point that, … I mean, Simon wasn’t in this thing that long. It’s two and a half years. I mean, he’s obviously doing things before based on, you know, demographic changes he’d seen in Catalonia. And I think on visits back to the UK as well. But he’d only been in this thing two and a half years.

 

Now when he sort of had the change in views he did, he would have been 57. Now, you get these studies don’t you showing how very few people will radically change their views, in foundational terms past a certain age. It just sort of doesn’t happen. And I’m sure the points been made already. But it’s testament to him that he did that. Because a lot of people like they just sort of shut it out, I suppose at that time in their lives. That might sound condescending. But I don’t mean it in that way at all.

 

There aren’t necessarily many people that would just radically reassess everything. I mean, to actually do that at all is credit enough. But then to actually turn that sort of change in understanding to producing the sort of material and importantly the sort of research he did. Yeah, it just made him valuable in a way that was sort of unique.

 

Because as we’ve all said that the work he was doing, it wasn’t like say something like we do, which is just basically an audio version of what people have to say on Twitter about things, or whatever.

 

It’s not that high effort. You read a couple of articles. You maybe make some notes, you go on, you talk about it for a couple of hours. You stick it out. It’s like actually researching things and doing research other people haven’t necessarily done.

 

[140:01]

 

Horus: Just before I introduce our next guest, I’m just gonna read one more of these quotes from Simon, that Vigilante Jesus is putting up. And one was:

 

“If history teaches us anything, great civilizations fall when the people become decadent and self-indulgent, and I no longer prepared to fight for their own survival.”

 

That’s not directly relevant to what we were just saying. But I think there’s another good quote from him. Ayatollah, if you don’t mind, I’ll have to kick you off just to make space.

 

Ayatollah: Yes certainly. Was just about to say in the little stream chat. Yeah, just boot me whenever you are ready. But I’ll stay on as long as you want.

 

Morgoth: Keep Ayatollah on, and you can get rid of me.

 

Horus: All right. Well, I’ll say provisional good bye to you both. And thank you both very, very much for coming on.

 

Morgoth: I’ll just like to say, rest in peace Simon. Great bloke! Tragic to see you go.

 

Ayatollah: Yeah. Rest easy mate! See you in Valhalla.

 

Horus: All right. Thank you guys.

 

And welcome Jack Hwite. And how you doing mate?

 

 

Jack Hwite

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Jack Hwite: I’ve been doing all right, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate being invited. There are probably a lot of people that deserve to be invited much more than me. I’m not very good at this thing, so if I choke up or something it’s not because I’m sentimental or anything, it’s just kind of nervous. It’s not actually a tear, it’s just something in my eye! But yeah, thanks for having me on, I really appreciate it. I don’t know why this has hit so many of us so hard, ..

 

Horus: But yeah, well the reason I mean, we had to select people. I mean, there’s dozens and dozens of people that could come on, but I remember you were on the, … Was it the Christmas Eve stream?

 

Jack Hwite: Yeah, actually on the Christmas one. I think I spoke to all three you guys on the Christmas stream.

 

Nick: I remember it.

 

Jack Hwite: Unwashed, Shazia, and I think Jacktion… That guy as well.

 

Horus: Jacktion will be on again. I believe YouKipper was on that stream as well, and he’ll be on shortly as well. And yeah, it was a merry night I remember, I was drinking rum. [chuckling] I went on another stream straight after and I was fairly, eh…

 

Jack Hwite: Yeah, I always have to have a couple of beers before I do this stuff, because I’m not really a streamer. Like… This stuff sort of makes me nervous, to be honest..

 

Horus: You are a singer right?

 

Jack Hwite: Yeah, so is Unwashed! [chuckling]

 

Nick: I’m more nervous about that one though! I really want to point people towards the collab you did with ForNull that you have done. Because it’s such an anthem! I want to make sure as many people hear that as the Hiraeth and Xurious one, from the mixed tape.

 

Jack Hwite: Yeah, he [ForNull] sort of turned me into a god with that remix he did. He’s done a lot of really great stuff, like a lot of our artists. Hopefully he does more, he’s a real workhorse, as well.

 

Horus: I don’t know if you saw our show last week, Nick was on with Jeff Winston, I assume, you know, him, you must know?

 

Jack Hwite: Of course. Yeah, he’s like my boss! [chuckling] He’s a good friend of mine, a good colleague. I thought that show was amazing and um, it’s kind of eh… I think Simon did as well. You know, you guys have done really great shows this year. And you know, the Ryan Faulk one comes to mind. I thought that was amazing, because I thought that guy was gone, but, you know, lo and behold he turns up with you and Simon.

 

Horus: Simon said that apparently that was just because they’d been friends on Facebook from some years before and he just got back in touch, he just messaged Ryan out of the blue. And Ryan was like:

 

“Yep! Yep, sure.”

 

So I don’t know if that was because Ryan knew of our show, or he just fancied going on something, or anything, I’m not sure. But when he did come one, he was an absolute blast! I mean..

 

Jack Hwite: Yeah, he used to create really good content, but he sort of like disappeared. I think I’m, pretty sure, I’m friends with him on Facebook as well. He’s sort of like..

 

Horus: He’s got a different channel. He does Knights Move, as in the chess move.

 

 

[145:02]

 

 

Jack Hwite: Right no, I don’t know about that. But I loved that stream. I thought that was amazing. I thought like, holy hell, like this guy’s back!

 

And you guys did the one with like Nick [Griffin], big respect for that. I don’t think anybody really wanted to touch that. But, you know, it’s a testament to Simon’s sort of, and yours, sort of journalistic impulse.

 

Horus: [chuckling] I’ll give all the credits that for Simon. I had no input! I mean, I made the occasional suggestions. And if I made them he was up for what I suggested. But he pretty much, always, as soon as one show was done he had an idea what we wanted to do for the next one [Jack chuckling]. Yeah, I mean, he really had his finger on the pulse, as Nick [Unwashed] said a minute ago. Especially the last few months, he was, whatever was causing any sort of disturbance, or intrigue, or curiosity in the general movement, he would go there and say:

 

“Well let’s talk to that person, or go over that thing.”

 

Jack Hwite: Yeah! The one you did with like [Jeff]… I’m obviously biased, because I’m associated with the White Art Collective, the WacPack, you know, that interview was just so amazing, you know… And he felt the same way as well. Because, I sort of… He was in our White Art Collective group on Facebook and he was posting there. He actually, you know, before the show, he was asking people in the group what should we talk about, he was looking for input, he was like totally open to that kind of thing.

 

And then when he posted the link I sort of pinned it. And it’s very, this is gut wrenching, it was probably like his last post, or one of his last posts on Facebook. I think after the interview – I guess like he’s an early bird, he goes to bed early, right? So, you know, he commented on that post that I pinned in the group. And he said:

 

“I hope you guys liked that.”

 

And he said he just felt really optimistic about the future, you know, he said:

 

“I feel really optimistic about the future.”

 

And, two days later, ..

 

Horus: This was last Tuesday was it?

 

Jack Hwite: This was Tuesday night, I believe, he made that comment. Just after the show, I guess before he went to bed. He said how optimistic he felt about the community. And we wanted to work with him. He was a musician, it made total sense that he would work more with that side of things. And it would have been awesome.

 

I saw a Darkest Sky in the chat, I know they worked together on some stuff, like music kind of stuff. I didn’t know that until this week, he put out musical collaborations he did with Simon and whatnot. I recommend people check those out.

 

But it would have been awesome to… You know, we were sort of making plans and like I said, I didn’t know him that well, and what’s really become clear here is you guys obviously were like close to him, and I’m really sorry for that. I sort of feel like I was becoming friends with him and people were making plans. And everybody had this sort of fantasy that they would just like meet him, and go to the pub and he’d talk about his cooking, like we did on that chat [at Christmas]. Tell you about his days in punk and stuff. We really hoped to work with him a lot more, and maybe get him back into music and stuff, … Yes it’s really sad.

 

Horus: Well, being a man of absolutely no musical skill myself, [Jack chuckling] the one thing I can do to contribute to what I think he intended with his link-up with you and White Art Collective, and so on, is just to say to everyone watching, check out their work! Because I’m someone who’s only fairly dimly aware… I’ve heard a couple of your songs Jack. I know Xurious, I know about a couple of Hiraeth’s, [150:01] dunno if I’m saying that right, her songs and little else.

 

I’d just say, there shouldn’t even be such a thing as the political side and the cultural side. But there is to some extend. The more we can do to mutually just engage with and support each other the better, and the more we’ll get out of each other, and more will spread it to new people as well.

 

Jack Hwite: So another thing about Simon, like yeah I mean, I knew about Simon like maybe a couple of years ago and stuff. I think I first came across him like… I was looking for answers and I was going through the Red Ice interviews, archives. I think that’s where I first saw him being interviewed. I think it was Red Ice.

 

And he was on his own journey and I was on mine. But sort of in the last year, or so, I started paying a lot more attention to him. With obviously the Tommy Wars. I thought that was wonderful! He was one of the main renegades, along with yourself, Shazia.

 

Actually, the reason I think I came to his attention was really through Dionne. I met her at the first PA conference, along with… I know Nick did as well, though I didn’t actually meet Nick there personally. But I know he was there, and, ..

 

Horus: I was there as well. I didn’t meet you Jack.

 

Jack Hwite: Were you at the first one?

 

Horus: Sorry! No. I was at the second one. No, … My awakening of a certain kind was a little too late. I should just, at this point, just begin to introduce our next guest as well. Who is YouKipper. But Jack if, ..

 

Jack Hwite: Can I say a few words. And then like bail?

 

Horus: Yeah, of course! And you’re welcome to stay on until we get too full, and I’ve got to bring on another guest. But yeah, whatever you’d like to say to finish off.

 

Jack Hwite: Yeah, I just like to end it on a, … You know, this is a really big loss! A lot of people had sort of plans… It’s a big loss for the community. A community that’s really sort of come to life, and that Simon really helped to build and contributed so much to. And he had so much more to give. And I think we feel sort of robbed a little bit by that.

 

But on a positive note I would just say that in a relatively short period of time he accomplished so much, more than many people will probably accomplish in a lifetime.

 

And he went all the way! The truth was his compass and he red-pilled himself, and then he red-pilled many others. And the blossoming sort of community that we have now is sort of largely thanks to Simon, and others like him.

 

So I just say like say:

 

“Cheers Simon! And hail!”

 

Horus: He’ll he really did play a big role in just carrying things forward, there’s no doubt about it. So, well said mate! And thanks a lot for coming on. And you’re welcome to stay on until we need to make space.

 

Jack Hwite: I’m gonna leave, but thank you guys so much for having me on. Really appreciate it.

 

Horus: Thanks a lot Jack! Cheers mate!

 

And welcome YouKipper. How are you doing mate?

 

 

 

YouKipper

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YouKipper: I’m not doing too bad and I just thought the same but the streams being fantastic and you really have done Simon proud so well done that everyone who was being on so far it’s been really good with them.

 

Horus: I’ll say a big world on such as your and Nick for that you.

 

Nick: Had the range man.

 

Horus: I’m delighted there was enjoy in it. But yeah, you kept but you were on the stream on Christmas Eve was it yeah Christmas Eve.

 

YouKipper: Yeah yeah, it was Christmas even I have to say was I was surprised, because just out of the blue I’ve got a message from Simon saying he was just a bunch of people out on for Christmas tour getting it was solving in contrast with Millennial he was having this, or big sort of almost like the parties kind of stream I guess but these to be like that back in the day when things were a lot less organized so I sort of enjoyed the chaos that you saw brought back with it. But yeah in terms of my first interaction with Simon I’m a pear was quite a while back on Gab I thought we use anymore I should be honest were our [155:02] own Gavin was funny, because I at that time I was still quite a big proponent of UKIP and Gerald bans regime, so to speak, in they dropped a pretty decent London Vestal if I say so myself and I remember Simon for our video where as I usually would he methodically sort of dissect of a piece by piece, you know, as he would with all these other verticals if it could go on for god knows how long yeah I remember he died second bit and I was like there please actually come at it from a nationalist perspective and given the sort of the jew deserves the they it deserved it was a pretty piece of manifesto. So I’m um I think and thinking myself he was pretty switched on, because he was sort of going against the green at that times I know I was when I was. So I’m sort of surprised to have an ally in Simon, so to speak, hey.

 

Horus: Yeah I mean, I still have some sort of fondness for cherub but nothing that I think that he is someone who is, or ideas are somewhat muddled but.

 

YouKipper: Very muddled.

 

Horus: Sighs in yeah and he still does the thing of using fascist as an insult to describe other name, you know, leftists oh well it’s kind of daft but.

 

YouKipper: See this is the essentially the term fascist it does have a modern-day connotation doesn’t it would be an honest fascism is sort of taken on that turn but in the sense the jew-rod button is right we’re wrong by being these sort of autistic dictionary actually take it seriously I mean, if it being sort of honest about it maybe those people who use fascism in that sense all right in so in this content for every sense it’s your will.

 

Horus: Yeah and even if we disagree with him we’ve got to meet them somewhere so even if we’re just trying to guide them somewhere else, you know, speaking of Gab Shazia as well I don’t know whether she has a secret Twitter account but she she’s a gap a gap aficionado.

 

Shazia: Who’s no writer coming back on as my field, you know, it’s really there’s something Jungian about able to close forever I want anything and being able to compliment form and take out enough not things of been good no.

 

Horus: I couldn’t agree more, because I don’t use it a hardly at all at the moment, because I’m getting a lot of that on Twitter. But I still know that at some point someone perhaps someone of middle-eastern ancestry is going to get me banned from Twitter and, you know, that is gonna happen at some point, because I’ll just piss off the wrong person I know I want to start naming names. But I can think of the kind of people who go after me so and the Gab is there for us, you know, it’s a back channel if nothing else to you it’s your front channel which as your isn’t it but, you know what Simon active on cap buy-in in the past then.

 

YouKipper: He definitely was buckler and as far as I can tell I know that’s where I first interacted with him anyway.

 

Shazia: [words unclear]

 

Horus: It’s kind of like our home base and we go out on raids into Twitter I’m just not a particularly long and bloody one I think just.

 

YouKipper: Yes actually Missy the way  Is the gap sort of there’s something to fall back on oh isn’t it like if for some reason Michael on Twitter cause I could just sort of retreat back big gap in a sense yeah.

 

Horus: Well we’re doing an extended commando right behind enemy lines but at some point I’m gonna get strung up and then, you know. But yeah, that Christmas stream was happy chaos wasn’t it was I love that kind of here when he’s thought about what mark says you’re gonna do tomorrow night like an open house ping anyone can just, you know, say hi I’m backstage, you know, and jump on and like I love that especially when you better you got a drink in hand and there’s a what, you know, holiday atmosphere and stuff and I mean, it’s a sad time that it’s happening now but on the other end I know you saw a man would whoa I can’t speak for him boy oh I imagine he would be very pleased to see us having a laugh, you know, we’re thinking of him and wherever the laugh a same song I think it’s in the spirit of what he did

 

YouKipper: and I couldn’t remember a time when any time I logged on the YouTube Simon’s videos would without fail be in the recommended if you have that like all the time, or expiry would always be there.

 

Horus: Yeah very often not as often as Jordan Peterson and CNN. But yeah, I mean, that’s someone that’s not fiddling, but yes, Simon’s was there, because of quality it was this absolutely true. I’m gonna start to introduce our next guest Chris but you keep her if there’s anything else you want to say and you’re welcome to style until we, you know, it’s we’ll need the space but, you know,

 

YouKipper: That’s it. But I would just like to say rest in peace — Simon I think I speak for everyone when I say that it’s just kind of just left me to be to us and just sort of scratching my head and wondering, you know, if things sort of great other politics and the things that are generally go on in our sphere and all the pettiness and all that all that arguing all the infighting and all, you know, and I’m Simon would be the kind of person who would want to put that all the bed so I suppose I could see anything it would be but put all the daft in fine neuroscientists see if anything in there yeah good night and God bless.

 

Horus: Cheers my and yeah if thinking of him helps us turn our attention towards not just victory but whatever lies above, or beyond us, or it’ll still be doing as a service even in even in death so yeah well said my earth I couldn’t agree more and we miss him but we thank him, you know, Chris welcome mate how you doing?

 

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk)

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Chris (Patriotic Talk): Hello mate yeah heavy okay.

 

Horus: Yeah he’s fine yeah.

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Well I just before we move on to Simon Harris god bless his top soul I would like to thank her the previous guest is been a magnificent show the audience been brilliant as always and especially free, because I’m gonna show last night my tribute show the pursuit Patriotic Talk shown he was very tough to do that since iguana schlong guys I applaud you all so I would like the audience to put a 14 in the chat for Horus Unwashed and Shelia.

 

Horus: It’s actually not been a least there’s so many people who wanna speak it’s not been any struggle it’s always just so many good people I so we have to select people as well I mean, we could have had Gardens more.

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): I know it’s tough it’s good to see the forties in the chat to you guys. But if song I was on his deathbed right now I’m sure he would want us all to remain positive as much as it hurts our heart it was its been such a tough few days we have to remain positive we have to keep going for this guy just what a brilliant man I’m not like I wasn’t as close to him as I was we as you guys was with him, of course. But I got that sense if he was if he remained a lot longer than we would think I’m very close we had such a gun bonding that the two months we got to know each other he was our guest last week on the Patriotic Talk show he won the quays as well so I mean, it’s not hard against my advice and Charlie, of course, but he still he still won the quiz he smashed the Cui’s I mean, the bouncer here Ybor to that show last week was fantastic, because obviously, you know, our show we bring a pub stall atmosphere we do have our serious topics, of course, but we got two other laughs and he just feed him so well and I really miss him and again guys credit to you guys, because you missed a lot closer to him and then I was and I really struggled yesterday so much quickly to you guys for putting on tonight’s show.

 

Horus: Hey you Simon was one that was I think the last kiss that you’ve had on Patriotic Talk show and I was I think the first is that right.

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): She was a first.

 

Horus: Yeah and I was then I beat Charlie in the quiz.

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Yeah but everybody beats Charlie for yeah, it was brilliant I’m just absolutely devastated like during the quiz he was going on my rants about the Protocols I’m not gonna say too much I don’t like that you should go he logs a little bit more freedom but he’s good on the ROI Transbay I have actually I mean, that meat doesn’t download in last week stream. So I’m gonna be putting that. But then, if you want to use it Horus, or any advice if you want to watch three but I’m in the middle of downtown and it right now as we speak he’s only sure.

 

Horus: I meant to suggest I’d never go rancid I meant to say to you we could.

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Broadcast this one live on the — live as well as I stuff this one to the laptop so it’s been, or caste there was 50 people watching paying a visit bet server yeah it’s been good it’s big I know it’s such a shame like I don’t all three of you actually took part we’ve done the community of nationalism videos I’m sure you guys remember song Harris two-part it will be played on PWR tomorrow. But one of the last lines he said was I’ve got a few years left in me anyway and I wore a noble die with my boots on which it kind of caught me to hear those words he only said those words like Oh two weeks ago three weeks ago so that was kind of deep, or as I said, we’ve got to keep pushing [165:02] on the message, because I’m sure that’s what he wanted one of us to do it.

 

Horus: Nice amazing me said that means he assumed the same that I did then, because I just thought there’s no way he’s going anywhere well I never thought that even that never occurred to me, you know,

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Yes it’s a Christ experience, because obviously on Monday using such holy spirit such a laughing matter I think he, you know, I’ve had my quiz he’s very serious and he was ranting and raving about his Protocols and come on Simon get your head in the game we have to focus on the quiz and he went on the moan and then he’s like hey you could interrupt the quiz all you want an icon and obviously all in good fun sir but he bought us it was such a fantastic show last week alone and then just about two days I say was in our chat we was gonna do the karaoke which he was go to starring unfortunately that didn’t take place that’s a story for another day. But yeah, and he just came to Chancellor Phil I go by truck today and that was the last we heard of him oh absolutely devastated but we have to remain positive guys we but the best thing of you ease the nationís community the togetherness was bought I mean, from the last time a chassis was 3118 apparent we raise for Simon’s family which was fantastic keep donating guys it would mean a lot and, of course, on Thursday night over on Gaylord pagelet seesaw with hosting a quiz the Patriotic Alternative versus the top guys so I’ve been marking more reverses Ayatollahh euro and nice of his inner Cui’s we all try and make some fun of its not gonna be all sad and try and raise more money for that family.

 

Horus: That’s great let me know this I listen to your tribute show last night and that was a very nice no it looks like it’s a week of my remembrance and appreciation and it.

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Sure that’s a given us loose movement any obscene everyone Paul together finished man really makes me feel proud and unfortunately we have lost him and I’m sure that he’s looking over us right now is sMarting that we are going to take this a step further now and we’re going to do everything in his name and his family’s name and everyone involved even if you’ve not been on the show it’s all you should be proud of yourselves.

 

Horus: Thinks I’d see anything you want to say shows your Nick.

 

Shazia: It just I like what you’re generally thank you for Kristen for us tonight, because it has been heard of them on in Boston a good idea. So yeah, I’m looking forward to.

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Yeah I mean, I do remember no comment on the show last week obviously he’s wiping ways to see the Sun and one of the fuzziness it the pressure was on cookie I was just the moment she left are just open teens of food probably probably put in the microwave and what learn yeah proper man problem man and I just well what a legend but I’m just so I am devastated gots known focus I do believe he’s that con is such a fantastic family man and I think everyone would just look up to him as the father they never had a sort of thing just war bloke I can’t just it’s only after a few months I can’t be specimen orphans going they did make it to the conference but what a fantastic speech he also gave.

 

Horus: Well said main yeah I mean, the speech we mentioned earlier but he couldn’t hear us but it was as though he could, you know, be interested he had a natural way of speaking very, very natural and there’s some sort of it was it Nick there was someone said oh the other, you know, you would have been good on the radio why did do radio shows embossed owner I believe, you know,

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): The Yanks me she’s been fantastic I don’t know obviously Dionne bless her sold and a great little tribute this morning the candle lit a little prairie and I actually do live that stream myself I started off with us on Harry song played her YouTube video then ended with another song and Harry song and also his music he’s brilliant wasn’t it so he wrote some of these songs so you had a good taste in music so much credit to him just go eat that we’ve lost him so vile a but we have to keep positive guys everything that we do now from now on has to be done in the name of him and we just got to get ourselves off and go again that’s the best we can do.

 

Horus: I think so too mate I’m going to introduce our next guest who’s Jackson. But if there’s any last thing you want to say then.

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): No I just my condolences to the Harris family and whatever the other [170:00] names are I really hope you can get over these some pick ourselves up he will be looking down on you and protecting your family and, of course, the nationalist movement again thank you to Horus on Washington’s idea for putting on an excellent stream so proud of you guys, because I know how hard this would have been for you guys so again guys thank you rest in peace Simon Harris and much love to you all.

 

Horus: Having so many people want to come on and say touching and lovely things makes it a lot easier cheers Chris.

 

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Thank you guys. Enjoy the rest of your night and on all will listen to the rest may resonate peace out.

 

Horus: Speak to you soon speeches thing and church and welcome mate how you doing tonight?

 

 

Jacktion

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Jacktion: Evening mate and yeah first of all just want to say my condolences to you I know you too were quite close were together a lot, you know, I must be fuckin horrible.

 

Horus: I love the guy he was brilliant to a private I haven’t really accepted it yet but, you know, I’ll swallow it bit by bit name for that I mean, got the same. So I’m others others, you know, I think everyone’s yeah a lot of people hurtin is well I mean, uh in a funny way I mean, mark marks it’s mean are common for but not I mean, I didn’t even have that either I never added him on Facebook this is a much that’s I can put Romney didn’t have his phone number it’s a find that from other people so he we really had a meeting of minds I think that’s what it was for meaning but suddenly realizing that he’s gone but it does hit me emotionally unless, you know, it’s horrible but we did a great show when you came on and that, of course, was when the fire was just beginning to become an amazing talked about out and weeks about as spiritual as well.

 

Jacktion: Yeah it was we spoke quite a bit about the virus funnily enough and he was actually the first guest when I started streaming I said why would anyone be up for coming on and we’d sort of thought of each other on Twitter for a bit bad and really interacted so he said to me yeah but I’d be happy to come on. What do you want to talk about my sort would I got fucking close I don’t really have a structure for it and what I remember that really fondly was I was talking to him and then I happened to ask him what the fuck was the Catalonian independence thing about and he was just so knowledgeable and then the whole sort was strained ended up with us just talking about Franco and primo de Rivera which, you know, it was always a bit of trouble getting him to say the whole name I remember booing that there was a laugh the yeah and I remember sitting there, the whole time and it was I really don’t want to sound condescending to him and it’s also have nothing but respect to the man but he was so sort of approachable to me he reminded me everyone’s got that’s a well, you know, that’s all older patriarchal figure in the family that you can soar Garland sit live and you’ll just learn things, you know, from their life experience, or what have you and I’m yeah the whole time just talking about and I come away and it’s all like I just read a fucking book, you know, it was there.

 

Horus: I listen to my stream as well it was superb yeah and I yeah I seem to remember it’s awfully delved in C so you swerved into Spanish history and really hard and it illuminates oh it was clearly something he was keen to talk about, you know, I mean, well this is what he was working on when it when he thought it as well as his, you know,

 

Jacktion: Yeah I was going to ask about that as well I know he was translate and I think it was some of the works of the Rivera and he was translating them to English and I sort of had so many talents I just thought this isn’t something that’s lost with him I hope someone is able to sort carry on his good works there and especially with all the things he’s done with the movement in particular as well even though I don’t really consider myself to be a part of it oh you think so we’ll see how unifying he was, because even things you disagreed with him about even things where, you know, I know that we didn’t see eye to eye. And when he asked me about them it was never like you were on the spot it was a man that was genuinely, you know, I just wanted to learn more.

 

Horus: That’s right yeah they really I mean, it was like I mean, it was conversation with a cloud plus one it was less less less figure this well this brings some illumination to this yeah let’s this find out what these ideas were about yes so Valley bought this and it’s so enjoyable with this all I spending my [175:01] time I mean, I’ve spent so my life were of it, you know, friends who are really like your loads of ways I really enjoy their company but they’re not in some way intellectual stuff but Simon absolutely was I mean, 30 and that’s our we went from not knowing anything about each other’s doing a show together in the space of a few weeks and he just seemed completely natural development as well so it’s just this brilliant scenario that’s worth I suppose why I felt more shocked than sad the last few days and what it is that I, you know, I’ve lost him in the sense that he was with us and now he’s not in but in the same way sorry in another way at least we knew him, you know, at least we did know him and at least we had what we did have and that’s the bright side of it. I mean,

 

Jacktion: No one can argue that he’s left a legacy there this I mean, I’m not gonna lie I caught myself when I sort of comeback started looking at the political stuff of YouTube again I saw a lot of his interviews I was Nick Griffin and some of the other ones he channel okay that’s going to be something I’ll catch up with him and I think the very next day I looked on Twitter and I can remember the buyers name sorry but he broke in the nose and I was just shot and I was watching the Christmas string the other day and I’m not gonna lie Bobby fucking jokes I’ve seen him there with his father Christmas hat on it was another case of where, you know, some of the conversation some of the things he talked about it was I think we ended up somehow I think Charlie was on this one as well and I know one washe was and yeah, I think it ended up I learned something about a Norwegian, or Scandinavian whatever folks how about a man who comes and shits in your chimney if you’ve been all especially when you’ve had a few drinks as well it was a really enjoyable Christmas stream and, you know, yeah, it was a complete sort of contrast to Millennial and he really come well with what he set out to go there.

 

Horus: It was really good I was on that one as well, because I remember you and me went on Bruce history office we said some relations and many others were always we weren’t going through.

 

Jacktion: Yeah that’s another thing I know even when I watched them his criticisms of Brutus and that he seemed like took him apart but in such a way this are so fucking respectful and it was coming from a point of its um it’s a talent I would completely lack I will just as you probably heard was on their Springs start come in the mouth but, you know, goodness it was a so sort of level-headed about it and it’s something that was something we’ll definitely been aided in the future wherever the movement happens to go that’s a talent that um it’s gonna be sorely sorely missed. But, …

 

Nick: I say no one knew how to tackle the Brutus situation no one everyone was like one earth do you do about this and Simon pulled out this hat.

 

Jacktion: Fire fire and Rehab is what you various but they’re fuckin it’s not about them no it’s genuinely alright I think than know him like as well as you guys did but I’ve never, you know, had a bad word to say about it even long things we’ve disagreed about it’s always been by completely respectful and, you know, not I’ve been really know him well enough to consider him a friend. But I remember I think it was post dream one so I said like, you know, next time you’re back in Blighty death and let you let me know and I’ll definitely like to have a beer with you.

 

Horus: Yeah I thought through about matters of faith at all we did on a screen Emory yeah I’ve got a couple of DMs. Jerry asked me some questions and I really wish I died not try I wish I’d learn it a bit more but it was kind of the time where I was just crying winding down from YouTube and man uh I couldn’t really answer him but I’m hoping like sort of closer and towards the end I don’t know he was definitely interested we spoke to fair a bit like when we was on the streaming when there and I’d know he was definitely sympathetic to the five. So yeah, I’m hoping I’m definitely like them at the time that it definitely on some sort of path in that direction no doubt about that.

 

Jacktion: He was my Vande happens from there that’s up to God yeah I don’t know the man shot by another man’s man but I’m oh, you know, he [180:01] seems to have a full life I know he leaves behind a ball up and a wife as well I believe.

 

Horus: And having each of this that’s good all right well Jack I’m good Jack. So I’m just going to introduce the next guest.

 

Shazia: [words unclear]

 

Horus: Jason if there’s anything you want to say yeah and I just want to say.

 

Jacktion: I’m really glad to hear that oh um he’s doing really well I’ll tweet their first moments of that as well. Yeah no we have lost a really good bloke I’m genuinely gutted as I’m sure all of us are and yeah he’s gonna be my prayers so I encourage you to do the same.

 

Horus: Thanks for the injection cheers make no drop off as you wish but.

 

Jacktion: No I’m gonna drop off thank you very much for having me on you’ve done a really good trip you to the amount of I’m sure we definitely be happy with its all yeah that’s big respects what were you so that.

 

Horus: Cheers mate. Thanks a lot James.

 

Jacktion: Cheers mate have a good one.

 

Horus: Jason welcome. How you doing?

 

 

Jason Köhne (No White Guilt)

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Jason (NWG): I’m good and I just want to say to you all first right out of the gate a big thank you to everyone who has participated everyone who put this together this tribute to Simon it means a lot to me I know it’s gonna mean a lot to all of those of you who put it together and everyone who is watching and we’ll watch and replay so I a deep thank you to every single one of you and I condole with Simon’s family members I can deal with everyone who cared about him it’s been quite a shock it’s been tragic to learn about this sudden passing and I guess potentially as a consequence of something that could not have happened had we been in control of our destiny I know you all are going the distance tonight having a lot of people on and I’ve been loquacious already quite a bit on Simon on my own stream so I don’t want to take up too much time.

 

But I will just I won’t I do want to jump in and say that Mr George and I came across Simon some time back and we watched him we enjoyed his content we enjoyed his intelligence and his integrity his pursuit of the truth despite what might have been uncomfortable too many people do not demonstrate such integrity their characters are not as good and he pursued the truth he cared about his people and that we think is the highest acclaim the highest and most honorable thing that we can say about a man, or woman especially given our circumstances today he cared about his people and he moved toward the truth with that as a guiding principle and he was willing to admit where he was wrong and willing to look places that others were not necessarily willing to look he had a heart of gold the things he said that were the kind of things that we all just sort of uncured advice we all look for and that’s how it was delivered and that’s how it was received.

 

And that’s why not only him as a person but him too White well-being is such a big loss, because he was able to speak to so many in that avuncular way that is so rare a man that we all easily developed a liking for was amiable and uniformly anyone who spoke with him wanted to end up at a pub with him, or at his home we talked about that Mr George and I and Simon plenty of times [185:00] we had him over on tap numerous times and he was a fan of taffy watched tap and he would make comments to us the final shows about that we had with him we touched upon some very of personal issues that he hadn’t touched upon before and that we’ve been able to do with quite a few guests over a tap is a dig in some places where they haven’t revealed things revealed revealing some secrets revealing some raw areas in their lives and he dug right down into the story of his daughter and the separation this inability to build memories with her and that was one of the things that was so crushing for me when I learned about his sudden passing along with feeling like I was had abruptly had a friend snatched from me and along with thinking about him as a man as a person and having his life snatched from him so young still so young were the thoughts about the memories that he was trying to make with his daughter this starting this past November being reunited discovering that she had anti-White some anti-White sentiments, because she’s growing up in an anti-White world and he got right to work and in pure love and you could tell it was coming straight from the heart he said as much and he worked every minute I believe in that time from their reunion all the way up into his passing to build those memories that they never had the opportunity to build so many of our young go without fathers so they go without mothers today most I think without fathers and this young woman my heart goes out to her obviously and Simon’s wife as I said, I can duel with them I know that all of those moments each and every one that she made with her father that are going to be gems that she will keep with her for the rest of her life I was absolutely shattered when I heard the news we were actually doing the garage party show that we do on Friday nights and p.m. Eastern Standard Time where we play music we play skits it’s meant to be a fun time Chuck Martell garage party and somebody wrote in the chat Simon Harris has died and, of course, having been in the White positive sphere for my whole life I immediately thought okay this is somebody who has shown up just to make this god-awful claim and to ruin the fun that we’re trying to have here at the garage party and the if, of course, Simon isn’t dead, of course, he’s not dead and so I wrote back in the live chat on that show please DM me and then that person did and said again yes I’m afraid he’s passed and other a couple others during the show said that they had heard as well and Mr George and I were furiously in the background trying to contact people reaching out to see is this true did we really just lose this guy that we thought this is a great friend and as I say, in the final time that we had contact with him we after the show when we talked about during the show getting together at some point future perhaps at his home for one of his meals where he drops these truth bombs that have been available that he talked about and really looking forward to that and then the part that was really tough was.

 

If you excuse me when he after the show he was so proud of that daughter in America and I’m sure it’s the same way elsewhere I’m sure it’s same in the UK and the rest of Western world when a parent is really proud of their child but it’s but it happens more so when they’re babies when they’re children when they’re very young they pull out their wallet, you know, they open up their purse and they’re like let me show and, of course, this is the way it used to be with all of us Graham now that everybody has their phones with the pictures on them and so they’ll open up the phone and they’ll show everybody look at the pictures of my of my baby look at here look at the pictures of my baby and he sent us pictures after the show of his daughter that he had finally been able to be reunited with.

 

 

Anyhow he was watching one of the taps episode tap episode if you folks watching don’t know what it is its the after-party that Mr George and I do and it’s usually toward the end of the week like a Thursday, or Friday, or Saturday it takes place, in fact, this coming Saturday we’re going to have the official launch for Prometheus rising and I’m gonna reference this in one second the standalone version of Prometheus rising and Simon like the story he watched the tap episodes where we talked with Laura Leigh we talked about Lord of the Rings and in conjunction with Lord of the Rings Prometheus rising which some of the fans of Prometheus rising have said is the White man’s and the White woman’s Lord of the Rings it’s the White the person the White positive persons Lord of the Rings and he watched one of one of those episodes and he ended up after watching the launching the episode making a video and at the beginning of the video he referenced watching tap and Mr Georgia myself and Laura-leigh and then he talked about when he was young and reading The Hobbit and then reading Lord of the Rings as a child and he noted that there was a song, or poem I guess that was supposed to be a song in the book I think it was in The Hobbit and he it was I think he said he was eight, or nine and he, or no he said he was eight, or nine and he felt like he couldn’t read any further into the book until he knew exactly what that song sounded like even though, you know, it’s just the words on the page so he said he sat at the end of the bed and made up the tune and sang the song and then he could proceed with the rest of the story and so he in this video he said all of these years later as a grown man let’s just say at his prime he decided that he was going to sing that song on the video and I thought it was when the first time I heard it when he made that video available he brought, you know, made my eyes wet I was its a beautiful tune and it’s lovely lovely piece and before I mean, if you all have something to ask of me it’s its don’t need like two minutes long I will, rather than doing like a screen share if I could it if you all have anything to ask, or say to me I’ll listen to it but I’d like to yield whatever time I have left with you all to Simon himself and the singing of this tune that he made up, or that he the tune he made up but this words from I think the Hobbit.

 

Horus: Were you gonna play on from your computer.

 

Jason (NWG): I’ll just play it right now I’ll move the mic over to the speaker and it’s only it’s less than two minutes long it’s just time singing.

 

Horus: Sure.

 

Nick: Obviously be wonderful.

 

Jason (NWG): [recording of Simon]

 

“This is exactly the tune I made up when I was eight, or nine I’ve done I remember sitting on the bed and making up actually anyway here it goes it’s the King beneath the mountains as by JRR Tolkien it’s about three-quarters of the way through the hobbit it’s a lovely lovely lovely lyric and I hope you learned another the awkward to it. So here goes:

‘The king beneath the mountains the king of carven stone shall come into his own his crown shall be his harp shall be restrung his hall shall echo golden it’s the songs of your song the words shall wave on mountains on the grass beneath the Sun his wells shall flow and the rivers cold the stream shall run in gladness the lakes shall shine and burn all sorrow fail and sadness at the mountain Kings return.’”.

 

Horus: Oh Jason you often speak about fire spirit and that word comes to mind right now.

 

Nick: It does it does I’m sure the White Pat can do something with that now one needs to live on.

 

Horus: I must introduce her next gift arrives, or Aref in a moment. But if there’s any last thing you want to say Jackson go ahead.

 

Jason (NWG): Last thing I’ll say is again thank you all for doing this Simon is, if you look at the world the way we do and going free Simon is no more gone than the Sun when it sets at night I love you all love you Simon rest in peace and talk to you also bye-bye.

 

Horus: Love you so you wait thank you very much. And hi riff, or awright if you wouldn’t mind beginning by telling me how to correctly pronounce your name and then tell us how you’re doing.

 

 

Hiraeth

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Hiraeth: Well technically, I mispronounce my own name. But I just say “hi-rith“, because it’s easier. [laughing]

 

 

Horus: All right, that sorted that out.

 

 

Hiraeth: Sorry to Welsh kin out there, that I say the word wrong. [laughing]

 

 

Horus: But what should it be? Should it be “he-rath”?

 

 

Hiraeth: I think it’s like “here-eye-eth”, or something yeah.

 

 

Nick: The great irony of this is no one knows! Everyone asks you how to pronounce your name. And then you spit it right back at us, going:

 

“It’s Welsh, you should know!” [Hiraeth chuckling]

 

 

Horus: I don’t imagine the Welsh saying “hi-rith”, …

 

 

Nick: It could be a rolled “r” in it, and all sorts of noises. [Hiraeth chuckling]

 

 

Horus: I’ve got a Welsh speaking friend I’m going to ask him, yeah, okay. “He-ray-eth”. So are you of Welsh ancestry?

 

 

Hiraeth: Um, I am not! Actually, I’m majority English. I have like maybe 2% Welsh, but majority English. [chuckling]

 

Horus: Okay.

 

Nick: It’s the meaning of the words, it’s got a particular resonance to us.

 

 

Hiraeth: Yes, it’s searching, you know, it’s a longing for a home that either it could be a home from the past, or something that hasn’t been created yet. It could be a home in the future,… but it’s just a “longing for home” basically. And nostalgia is a big part of it.

 

 

Horus: And did you meet Simon online? Or, I know you were always in often in the chat, listening to European Freedom.

 

 

Hiraeth: Yeah well I mean, I feel like I’m almost here as like a representation of a lot of folks in the live chat tonight, like a lot of the anonymous folks. Because I didn’t actually personally know Simon, like on a personal level. But we had interacted on Twitter some, publicly about music and stuff, and in live chats on YouTube. We were like Facebook friends and things like that.

 

But I never actually got to interact with him privately. But I feel like I am sure a lot of people feel this way, where you almost it’s kind of one-sided, because you almost feel like you do know them to an extent, because he was such an influential figure in the community. And there’s things that I just really loved about his work, and his streams, and his character, just all around. So.

 

 

Horus: Yeah, well said. I agree. And you are part of the White Art Collective as well, aren’t you?

 

 

Hiraeth: Yes. I am a singer/songwriter, member of the White Art Collective.

 

 

Horus: I mean, I first heard of you with your collaborations with Xurious, who’s sort the English side of the music makers. But yes, so I know you by your singing voice, first of all.

 

 

Hiraeth: Yeah. Xurious is awesome! [chuckling]

 

 

Horus: So did you enjoy hearing Simon’s voice, singing voice?

 

 

Hiraeth: Yes, actually, like I just learned about, or I just heard his videos. Well I enjoyed what Jason just played, just now. And I had heard that I think yesterday, and it’s very, very touching.

 

But I also there’s people like posting his some of his live things that he’s done. He did a I think two other videos that I’ve seen circulating of him just playing live. And he did one original song, and then he did a cover. And the cover he did has been stuck in my head since, gosh, like since Saturday, I think. And it’s that one that’s like it’s like:

 

“How long has this been going on!” [chuckling]

 

 

Horus: Isn’t that Mike and the Mechanics? Paul Carrack singing? Okay, alright maybe I heard a cover version.

 

[200:00]

 

Hiraeth: Could be. I’m not sure. I just definitely know that song. But I don’t really know the band. I think it’s by Ace, but I’m not sure. I’m sure it’s been covered by a bunch of people.

 

He did such a great cover of that, and I saw that video and there was like, I don’t know, 22 likes and there’s like two dislikes. And I remember getting pissed! I was like why?.. who would dislike this? This is a great cover of this!

 

Well that was something that I really liked about him, from just from what I picked up on, is that when he decided to do something, he just went for it! And he went for it full force, no matter like what it was. And I have a lot of respect for that, because when you play, just from a musical standpoint I’ve never even played in front of a live audience before, and I just feel like the thought of that is so terrifying, because I have a lot of stage fright.

 

And he just seems such a natural, very comfortable, and just at ease. And I think he seems like the type of person that would put others at ease as well. People seemed to connect with him on many different levels, which is really cool, so.

 

 

Horus: The picture of the night, I think by consensus, has been that one of him on stage with, … Iconoclast said it was a Stratocaster with a red strap. Yes, assuming the 80s I think. I don’t know whether he’s in England, or Barcelona.

 

But yeah, I mean, he did seem like a guy who was particularly like, as you say, he was at ease, he wasn’t, you know, I didn’t seem like the kind who’s embarrassed to perform.

 

 

Hiraeth: Right! Yeah he never like second-guessed himself at the time, or anything, where I feel like I would be like oh my gosh! like I don’t knowc I feel like I’d be freaking out! [laughing]

 

 

Horus: Absolutely. And he was beginning to really try and put forward like the White Art Collective, and their work, I don’t know if, … Well, of course, you heard our show last week.

 

 

Hiraeth: I did, yeah. I was in the live chat and it seemed like he was really getting on board with the fact that, like I think he had an understanding of how important culture is, or just art and music, as part of culture. And that side to this whole, to this fight that we’re in! That really plays a really important role. And I think he had a good understanding of that as a musician, and as a music lover, because he was very passionate about music.

 

And that tape, that mixtape he made for Unwashed, that Unwashed asked him to make for Vile, that was awesome! I listened to that it was great! I hadn’t heard of all those bands. But, I love Joy Division. And I know on Twitter he had said that he actually went to, he saw Joy Division in concert like two weeks before Ian Curtis actually killed himself, which is crazy! I was like, I’m so jealous that you got to see that. That’s awesome!

 

So he just seemed like a really good, all-around, good dude. A very cool dude, also, so yeah!

 

 

Horus: I don’t know about you Shazia and Nick, I’ve found out quite a lot about Simon tonight that I didn’t know a few hours ago. Hearing all these different perspectives on him has like been illuminating, apart from anything else.

 

I mean, some people have come to me in the last few days and said:

 

“I know how close you guys were.”

 

And this is true in the sense that I worked with him all the time. But as I said, to one of the guests earlier, that to some extent for me it was kind of a meeting of minds, like intellectual, political, stuff. I didn’t even know his phone number, or I don’t connect with him on Facebook, and all this stuff. But, I didn’t feel the need, because I took it for granted, I just assumed there was no need. And, how wrong I was.

 

I mean, not that it made any difference whether he lived or died. But I, .. I think he would say the same, I just felt an instant appreciation for the guy, an immediate sort of easy friendship! There was nothing to figure out. There was nothing to get past, it was, … the first time I spoke to him I just thought, so we’re mates now, you know! [chuckling] That’s a thing now, that’s great!

 

And yeah, I mean, he made it easy, and he was really, …

 

Shazia: [words unclear] he written sorry and have his number I don’t have Facebook I don’t need to have his plate — I just thought he was going to be here, you know, you take for granted. It’s exactly what you say I mean, I would in a room and you team over back always the same day so, because I had that connection left. And if I needed to meet him for something even if he was out he would email and say he’ll reply in detail when he gets back home. So I don’t ever feel the need to contact him on the telephone.

 

 

[205:00]

 

Horus: Yeah. A friend of mine, after I said on Friday that Simon had died, I said, to him, life is fragile, and the takes moments like to actually, … In my case to realize that, because there’s not been a lot of bereavement, or death, that I’ve experienced so far. But this a real loss.

 

I hope that at least the way we are responding to it, sort of plants seeds for the future that we might hopefully make something good come of it. And, yeah, so, …

 

 

Hiraeth: It seems like you’re doing a pretty good job of that already though, because like, well I loved it when Simon did these kinds of streams with a bunch of people like around New Year’s for instance. I loved that stream and I just thought it was so cool, because I remember thinking like:

 

“Gosh that’s got to be a lot like to switch all of these guests and stuff, in and out!”

 

There’s so much that goes on behind the scenes. I don’t think a lot of people really think about that and you have to be really focused to be able to be engaged in what people are saying, and still like, switching people in and out like crazy! And trying to keep the everything on time, you know?

 

 

Horus: That’s very true. I was nervous. I said to Nick and Shazia that I was nervous before, you know.

 

 

Hiraeth: Well, you’ve done awesome! I mean, I’ve listened to this stream you know, I couldn’t really talk in the chat before because I was at work earlier. But I’ve listened to the stream since it started, and it’s been amazing!

 

I mean, everything that everyone has said has just been so nice. You know, I didn’t personally know Simon, like I said, but I think anybody, I think he would have really appreciated this. And I think anybody would, you know. So, …

 

 

Horus: I really hope so. Yeah, I really, really, hope so!

 

I guess we’ll begin to draw this to a close, but Shazia, you know, if there’s anything you want to say before we come towards the end?

 

 

Shazia: I was really nervous before we came o. And I was really emotional. I feel myself crying. And every guest that you’ve had on have just shared so many beautiful memories. I’m really happy and I’m really glad it’s been really good. just, yeah, rest in peace Simon. Just one last thing if we are in this much, you know, shock and sadness, I can’t even begin to imagine what his family is going through.

 

 

Horus: With what Jason said, yeah I can only imagine how painful it must be for his daughter to have reconnected, and now to lose him completely. I hope, I mean, I don’t know at all, but I hope that she can draw some strength from the time that they did spend together.

 

Nick is there any last things you want to say?

 

 

Nick: Oh I’ve said an awful lot about Simon over the past few days! I’ve written words and all sorts. But this has been a lovely way to send off? I don’t know what the right word is! Yeah, still lost for words! Still haven’t really been able to sum it up.

 

I’m just very, very, honored to have known Simon since the end of last year. And yeah it can all be summed up in one word which is “gratitude”! It’s like I just have huge gratitude for everything that he gave me and everything that he gave all of us. What a wonderful dude!

 

 

Horus: Well said, mate.

 

Heraeth, … Hiraeth, is there any last things you want to say?

 

 

Hiraeth: I just would like to say thank you all for having me on. Thank you for doing this for three and a half hours. That’s a long time to be streaming for. And I know Simon did that really, really, well.

 

And like I said, I enjoyed those very much. I like that he was willing to give smaller voices the time of day. It wasn’t really like a popularity contest with him, he just, when he saw something that he thought was, or somebody that he thought was talented, he would boost them up. And I think that’s just really cool!

 

So rest in peace, Simon.

 

 

Horus: He really did like to boost people up. Yeah, and he did that for me.

 

I feel like there’s a various, I don’t know, loads of things I could say, but the words won’t really come to me.

 

But I will say that a bit, … I feel that I’ve got someone’s fingers around my throat! But I will just say:

 

“Mate, you were a brother!”

 

And well, you still are!

 

Thanks a lot. I’m gonna bring it to an end. Thanks everyone for listening. And do him proud! And I think I’ll see some of you tomorrow on Patriotic Weekly Review. And let’s just try and continue in his spirit.

 

So thanks everyone! I’m going to end it now.

 

So take care! Good bye.

 

[210:36]

 

 

END

 

 

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See Also

 

Simon Harris – My Speech to the Patriotic Alternative Conference – Mar 16, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 19 – A Conversation with Nick Griffin – Apr 14, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 21 – Keeping A Political Project On Point with Dangerfield – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 23 – Is Populism and Patriotism Enough? with Paul Rimmer – May 5, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 22 – Gavin Boby on Mosque-busting and the Breakdown of Society – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 25 – The State of the Art with Jeff Winston & Nick Cotton – May 19, 2020 — Transcript

 

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Version History

 

Version 21: Jul 2, 2022 — Fully proofed Morgoth section (9 mins). Total fully proofed = 142/210.

 

 

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Version 10: Oct 10, 2020 — Added an update regarding Simon. Mark Collett said that he was told that Simon died from a heart attack, and not COVID-19 as previously thought.

 

Version 9: Sep 13, 2020 — Received proofed transcript from Laura Towler, for his part. Proofed again and entered.

 

Version 8: Aug 31, 2020 — Received proofed transcript from Jared George, for his part. Proofed again and entered.

 

Version 7: Aug 25, 2020 — Received proofed transcript from Hireath, for her part. Proofed again and entered.

 

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Version 1:: May 30, 3020 — Published post. Transcript fully proofed = 20/210 mins.

Simon: Okay. Hello everyone! I hope the stream has started. Welcome to European Freedom livestream number 25. And this one’s called “The State of the Art”. And we’ve got some two great guests. Jeff Winston from the White Art Collective, and Nick Cotton! We were just talking about this. Not everybody knows Nick Cotton. But Nick Cotton is Unwashed, and he also is running the project Vile, Vile Media. So we’re gonna have a really interesting show.

 

But before we kind of get started before I talk about Horus’s dinner which is the traditional thing we do to start the stream. I just wanted to mention, well I just wanted to admonish listeners and subscribers, and give a shout out to a guy called “katana 17” who has a website. Let’s see if I can find a website. Yeah, here’s the katana 17 website. And what katana does is he transcribes, he uploads lots of documents, books, PDFs. But his main work has been transcribing speeches. He did various speeches of the both the PA conferences, and videos, and livestreams.

 

Basically what he’s doing is he’s documenting the intellectual basis of this movement. I think it’s incredibly important work! He’s a member of my forum, and I’ll put the forum in the chat. I’ll put various links in the chat. And we were kind of hoping when he got into the forum — I’m just putting the link in there now — that he gets some help doing this incredibly important transcription work. And I’ll put the link to his, … Yeah I mean, look at it! He’s got all this stuff here, this stuff by me, this stuff by Morgoth, Morgoth’s last video. I mean, loads and loads of really important stuff. Let me put his link in.

 

And, you know what he needs is he needs help doing this important work. I kind of get loads of people saying to me:

 

“Simon! Simon! What can I do to help?”

 

And the moment you say well something really useful would be transcribing five minutes of such and such a live stream, and helping katana with his work. And. What do you get? The sound of crickets. So I’m a little bit pissed off with people in general. I would suggest you can either go straight to his website, and he’s got instructions and you can help him by taking a piece of a live stream, or a document and using the comments section.

 

Alternatively you can go to my forum and you can interact with him there. Just sign up to the forum. And it would be nice to get a kind of community of people doing, … One of the reasons for the forum is that is to coordinate people. It’s where people have time and interact with each other. So those are your two options. Please help him! He really needs some help. It’s very, very important.

 

Anyway, after that little rant, I’ll say hello to my mate Horus first. How’s it going? What have you had for dinner today mate?

 

Horus: I had a Thai green curry, which I made myself.

 

Unwashed: Booo! [chuckling]

 

Horus: What it’s not British?

 

Unwashed: Well it’s normally fish and chips, or a pie, or something! [chuckling]

 

Horus: We don’t have pies often enough, actually. Yeah, no we do often have fish and chips. But green curry and rice, and broccoli, you know, the classic accompaniments with Thai green curry [word unclear] goes well.

 

Simon: And for pudding?

 

Horus: I had sort of Tesco’s own brand “After Eights”. Two of them, really nice. Do, you know what’s different tonight though?

 

Simon: Yes I know. We already knew this, so [trumpet sounds] come on, tell us!

 

Horus: You don’t know what I’m gonna say. Well, there’s that as well, I’ll tell you that after. The less interesting bit is that normally after dinner on a Tuesday, like ready for European Freedom, I’ll go for a quick walk to walk off my dinner. I come in and put my dressing gown on. But it’s just too warm!

 

So tonight I’m just sitting in shorts! No one really cares, but, … The other thing is I put out my new, well I started putting out my new videos — in six parts. There might be seven. I might do a seventh part. But yeah, they’re on my BitChute channel. Part 1 & 2, are on my BitChute channel. So thanks to everyone who’s watched in them. You know, check them out, they might be interesting.

 

Simon: Okay. I haven’t watched it yet, but I’m sure I will. As I was putting the links in the description box I noticed that you’ve done it. So this is the big news for this week!

 

[05:01]

 

Horus: And there’s another thing as well. I got banned off YouTube! So anyone who’s looking for me on YouTube I’m banned now. But I am still on BitChute, so yeah. Sorry, carry on.

 

Simon: Okay and the next person, the first person we got to say hello to is Nick. How’s it going Nick? Unwashed, Vile Media, man of many faces, and many things! How’s it going mate? We’d not talked for a while, actually.

 

Unwashed: Not on a stream, but, you know,

 

Simon: We have we talked privately, obviously, but not on a stream. So, I know what’s up with you, tell the viewers what’s up.

 

Unwashed: The viewers, what’s up with me? I’ve got Vile episode, six season finale, on Sunday. And I’ve set the bar too high for that one. So I haven’t started editing it, because I’m nervous! Like, I just want it to be this enormous White pill of all of our successes so far this year, and any sort of nostalgia that that we’ve missed, that we haven’t put in the past five!

 

So yeah, I’ve got to pull that one out of the bag for some day. But then I can have a rest! I’m really happy with what we’ve done over there. And the submissions that we’re getting for articles are just great. And Simon submitted a playlist for a mixtape! It’s all going well! It’s all good fun, the stuff that I’m involved in at the moment.

 

Simon: Yeah, yeah, I think it’s really cool. It’s kind of reclaiming recent culture isn’t it? That’s is that a fair summary of what you’re doing?

 

Unwashed: That’s a very good way to put it. Yes this reclaiming stuff, because.  So I’m a refugee from the UK music scene. And I noticed that every single sub-genre is hard Left, for no good reason. But that every single, little, micro genre has been captured! And they all babble the same talking points about multiculturalism, pro-choice, whatever. And I just think it’s time to say:

 

“No! As British nationalist we get to be proud of anything that was by British people, fundamentally!”

 

So Sex Pistols, having that! All the British comedy that we love that other people around the world wouldn’t get, because it’s not from their culture, we’re having that! And that’s my logic for it, it doesn’t have to be like, you know, nationalists. We can’t go around just going:

 

“Oh Morrissey’s our boy, and no one else’!”

 

I think there’s a better way to do it. So that’s what we’re attempting.

 

Horus: Morrissey’s Screwdriver?

 

Unwashed: Yeah, exactly! You know, [chuckling] and yeah I’m not the biggest fan of their imagery, if I’m honest.

 

Horus: Or their pony songs?

 

Unwashed: I’ve never listened to them. But I did ask Mark about them. I was like:

 

“So is it overblown, or were they, you know, as the media’s described them?”

 

It’s like:

 

“Yeah, they went pretty full-on!”

 

Alright, okay. That’s not really what I’m about, and what I’m endorsing.

 

Simon: Okay let’s get on to the guest who we don’t know yet. And finally get to him. Jeff, Jeff Winston of the White Art Collective. How’s it going mate? It’s really nice to talk to you for the first time.

 

Jeff: Yeah it’s nice to talk to you guys. Hello, and thanks for having me on. This is the first time I’ve done a show in a different time zone. And it makes sense for it to be our brethren across the pond. So thank you guys very much for having me.

 

Simon: Yeah you had a bit of a problem didn’t you? Aren’t we on your lunch hour now?

 

Jeff: Yeah, thereabouts. Actually, I miscalculated that. It’s a little after my lunch hour. But I adjusted, because I badly wanted to be on here and talk to you guys. So I’m technically working from home. So, you know how that goes [loud laughter]

 

Simon: So you could move things about a bit.

 

Jeff: Exactly.

 

Simon: Okay. Really, I mean, I think the truth is lots of our audience in the UK aren’t that familiar of what the White Art Collective is about. You seem to be mainly US based. But there are exceptions. There’s our own very good Jack White, who I had on a stream over Christmas. And there’s a few people here in Europe. But I think it’s fair to say that most of you are based the US, although we’d like to encourage more adherents here in Europe. Can you give us some kind of an introduction? However, you like, how it started, when it came together, and who’s involved, really.

 

Jeff: Yeah, first of all I’ll kind of give you our main mission statement. So the White Art Collective is a collection of artists of European descent whose mission is to preserve promote, celebrate and expand upon our shared European culture. And definitely like you said there, we are American centric. I’m the founder and director so, you know, I’m an American. And that went into like how I’ve shaped it, the reason I use the term White, rather than European, even though, I kind of obviously, we use that somewhat exchange to be very synonymous, obviously. And then turn around and defined as a collection of artists of European descent.

 

And we do have quite, we’re definitely American centric, but we do have quite a few people from across the euro sphere. We got quite a few from the UK. We’ve played some of Nick stuff as well. Looking forward to getting to some more stuff from him. And Jay Ray Do who’s also affiliated with Nick and Vile, he sent us the song “Jack is White”, is one of our main featured artists. Jack is great! Jack’s brilliant! And he’s a pillar of the White Art Collective community. He’s involved in a number of other shows and goings on behind the scenes. The Decency, also super talented guy. And we’ve worked with Zerious a lot. Hiris has done a couple collaborations with him. She’s one of our, she’s an American with a Welsh name there. And let’s see, Mama P from Mamas and the Pepe’s. She’s also done a couple collaborations with Zerious.

 

But yeah, we got people from Romania, Sweden, Australia, Canada, Hungary, Poland, France, Norway. One of the Whiter countries in South America. I cannot remember it off the top my head. It’s been a while since I talked to that gentleman. And also France. We just got a couple, got in contact with a couple of French guys. So it’s cool that we’re kind of expanding out in that way. And that one of the reasons that we wanted to come onto the show here, is to do that.

 

[11:44]

 

So the way it kind of got started was that I’ve been playing music, I’m an artist and a filmmaker myself, and I’ve also done some DJing and some event organizing. I’m also a writer as well. And so for a long time I’ve just seen the need for organization amongst artists. I see artists kind of get kicked around. You know, I’ve gone and lived in some of these like artist enclaves, like Nick was saying. These places and a lot of the genres and everything involved are very leftist. And there’s no reason that they should own those things. But they are at the moment for the most part. And so I’ve gone and lived in those places, and just seeing artists kind of get the short end of the stick from the business side of things, and just in general.

 

You know, artists are very independently minded people. It’s kind of hard to get them to organize. They’re probably the most non-conforming types you’re gonna come across. So it’s almost oxymoronic to try to get them to come together. But this isn’t the first time that artists have been organized. There was a time when there were, you know, guilds and things like that and different types of organizations that back in different parts of Europe where people organized in these types of ways.

 

But, so yeah, I just recognized that artists needed to be organized. And then when I saw, so I’d kind of had that in the back of my mind. But then in the last few years when I saw all of this very anti-nationalist, anti-traditional, anti-White, sentiment, I saw the need to organize to protect that culture and protect that art. Because we’re constantly under critique. And there really isn’t a meaningful organization that I’ve seen to push back against that.

 

And, you know, artists kind of need something, you need to have some kind of entity to get people to organize around. Like one of the elements of what we do, is just getting people to collaborate. Like a lot of people have met each other through the White Art Collective that would have never otherwise, you know, been affiliated with one another. Because everybody’s got their own channel, they’ve got their own page on Bandcamp and whatever deviantART, wherever they might be posted. And there’s not necessarily anyone like an entity encouraging them to come together.

 

So yeah, I started this back in January of 2018 with just me and a couple friends. Like I built a very simple DIY website, which we’re working on updating. I really want to get that set up for that to be where people go to find out what’s going on with White Art Collective and also for artists to be able to log in there. And for it to actually facilitate the collaboration itself.

 

But yeah, so we’ve been building this up since January of 2018. Started out with just a handful of musicians, and I’ve been slowly building a rapport with all these different artists. Started American centric, I mean, still American centric. But I started getting people all across the euro sphere, like I said before. And now we do have a pretty good blend of people and perspectives from different places. Like, sorry go ahead.

 

[15:00]

 

Simon: No, you continue. I thought you stopped.

 

Jeff: Yeah, that’s, I was about to I guess. I think that pretty much sums up what we’re doing, what we’re about. So the kind of the main functions, like that mission statement is fairly high-level. So like I said, one of the things we’re facilitating is collaboration.

 

It’s also community building. Just so that you have people, friends, you know, we live in a fairly alienated time, just modernity in general. This whole kind of global era. And so artists are gonna float around and kind of struggle more than a lot of people, just anyway. So we’re here to support them on that front as well. But also to try to get them resources. It’s my job, that’s kind of part of the collaboration, but I’m constantly looking at, like I have a couple people in the queue I need to get back in touch with. One of them is a like a metal singer, you know, he sings to metal stuff.

 

And then I have people submitting music to me that are, they like created an entire metal song, but they don’t have any vocals, right? So, I’m constantly looking for ways to help people get the pieces they need to kind of make the full and complete piece. And we have quite a few shows too. Like, we want to feature people, because another part of it is I think a lot of our folks have been, because the art scene is so inherently anti-White, whether it’s the fine arts, whether it’s the music industry, Hollywood, the film industry, anywhere is very leftist! And so our perspective, especially of a White male, but just White people in general, and people of European descent in general, is very much pushed out of that.

 

So just having a place where you feature stuff from our perspective inspires people to create! And I can’t tell you, I’ve had quite a few people who just come to me and said:

 

“Thank you so much for doing this! It just it inspired me to want to do something!”

 

Like that in and of itself is a huge part of what we’re doing.

 

 

Jeff: No we definitely have a very free concept. I think initially it just kind of inherently drew people who were more oriented towards that, because we’re kind of like rejuvenating this thing and not everybody had quite internalized all of the ideas to where they could just create without, you know, kind of unintentionally putting, or putting that in there, you know, more than you probably normally would.

 

But I think as we’ve been developing and as we’ve all kind of gotten that out of our system, we’ve started to attract more people who kind of come from an apolitical perspective. Which is exactly in my opinion what we want to do is, you know, like you said, and I agree with you. You and I had been discussing this a little bit, that we definitely need to be a united front, the political realm and the cultural realm. And what we’re doing as artists. But at the same time they are distinctly different things and they serve a different purpose.

 

So I want people to be making genuinely inspired art. And if they feel that they have to shoehorn in propaganda into that — not that I’m against propaganda, that’s an art in and of itself and we’ve discussed that and some panels and things with the White Art Collective.

 

Another one of the things we do is kind of address these concepts. But still, we’ve actually had a number of people recently, … And a guy actually messaged me as a visual artist, actually a New Zealander, and so I guess I forgot to say New Zealand earlier! And he said, he was telling me, he was like:

 

“I’m not overtly traditionalist, or nationalist, so I don’t know if this is something you’d be interested in.”

 

But he sent me his links to his stuff and I responded that no, I was like:

 

“No that’s exactly what we want! That’s great!”

 

Because it doesn’t need to be overtly that, it’s basically just that we’re genuinely expressing the ‘bio-spirit’ as Jason Kohne would put it, of our people. We just want our essence and our perspective to be represented in it. And I want people to freely express themselves

 

[21:18]

 

 

Simon: Yeah. I mean, that sounds great. Nick? Horus? You got anything to chip in here? Let’s make this a free-for-all! Let’s grill Jeff on where the White Art Collective are coming from.

 

Jeff: Bring it!

 

Horus: Well I had a question, I suppose it could go to anyone. Would you say that often when people decide, we as a movement, we as like nationalists, need art, you know, we need to produce and compete in the cultural realm, that it can often be overly self-conscious? And be not really enjoyable in the way that other art is? And therefore not really penetrate beyond those who are already politically committed to liking it. Have you ever encountered that?

 

Jeff: Yeah, I mean,

 

Horus: I’m sorry, I would just to add, I was a libertarian before and like there was a few groups, or poets, or whatever, and they were known as libertarians. And they were like, you know, there are our movement’s musicians. But it was a bit shit, you know. [chuckling] Because it was self-consciously saying:

 

“We need to make such a thing as libertarian art.”

 

Whereas like, Simon asked you Jeff that like, you don’t have to be overtly political. And I assume that’s, you know, that goes a long way to not having that problem.

 

Jeff: Yeah, exactly! I mean, like I said, I think starting out it was kind of that way a little bit but the I think it had to have and another important part of this too of what we’re doing is like artists need the opportunity to develop, you know, there was a time when like record labels, you know, back in the 90s 80s 70s, you know, back into the classic rock they would have bands that would have two, or three albums before anything really hit with the public and that’s just totally unheard of now, because it’s like if it doesn’t sell like you were out it is a product it is a commodity. And if it doesn’t move then you’re just you don’t exist anymore so that’s another thing we’re doing like that can’t business can’t drive the art world there needs to be the opportunity for artists to develop so that’s another thing we’re doing and to that like I said when we kind of started out, you know, myself and I think some other people too we kind of were a little more overt, you know, maybe we weren’t as maybe, maybe sometimes you be a little trihard this, you know, it just it’s part of the developmental process of eventually kind of honing and refining not only people’s individual craft. But I think just our the honing the overall movement in and I think we have I think we’ve gotten to that place now like I said that we are starting to attract more people and our artists who are already with us feel more comfortable just expressing themselves and not necessarily feeling like they have to try to intentionally put some kind of political message in there. And I think that’s where we’re gonna have the greatest amount of success because, you know, when you’re doing I think when you’re doing art right it’s just gonna feel people are gonna identify it’s only gonna like you said about the British humor, right? Like it’s a perspective well and I do like some British humor and it is different than American humor obviously, you know. But I enjoy it, because it’s not it’s we’re still fairly closely related so it’s relatable and but, you know, it comes from a clear perspective it’s not really meant for out-groups they’re not going to understand it, you know, so if you do your perspective right then the [25:02] people will identify with it and like it and I think the less that we try to put a message in there, the better it will probably be. But again that is separate from propaganda and I think propaganda is kind of an it’s an art in and of itself but when artists are just expressing themselves freely they should just do that just let go, you know, be yourself.

 

Horus: Ingenious propaganda can be something that you admire artistically even if it’s from someone evil.

 

Jeff: Yeah I mean, as we’ve probably all done I’ve certainly been studying the propaganda of communist pretty extensively over the last few years and it is something to behold how especially in film but music — but film is just so immersive that I think it’s some of the most effective propaganda, because — like — the subconscious mind, or the unconscious mind it almost feels like a lived experience so people they see these historical events and they feel like that that image of that historical event is more real to them than the abstract information and data that they gather from like a history book, or something, you know, so that’s they felt that event when they see it on film and the way that the kind of globalists and communist types and Marxist types the way that they crafted propaganda when it was subtle I mean, it is something to behold and it is evil but it is like it’s impressive you gota, you know, again I don’t like him but it’s you got a study it to understand like wow how effective it’s been. And I think that’s what people lean leaning to the right and the traditionalist and nationalist I think they haven’t taken that seriously they don’t take art seriously enough in how powerful it is.

 

Horus: That sense of something well worth study news well, because on the Communist side you also have what I mentioned before about the very self-consciously politically agitated art and when communists do that is corneas when I mean, what anyone else does it but they do also, as you say, have things that are what wholly immersive what kind of thing all kind of like films, or whatever you refer to that are examples of them doing that very well on the Communist side the Marxist side?

 

Jeff: Good question.

 

Horus: I mean, I think of Eisenstein.

 

Jeff: Yeah I’m thinking like I don’t know Schindler’s List alright, you know, any basic Eleni thing from World War Two and the power of that also is that there’s just the insane the just the quantity of World War Two and “Holocaust” films is so plentiful that that narrative is so deeply burned into people’s minds, you know, it that is really something incredible, you know, because let’s say if you compare that to the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, I and actually it’s fun there’s like a there’s a Wikipedia page for the “Holocaust” and there’s a Wikipedia page kind of for like Bolshevik films, or whatever and I mean, it’s not even close and then, of course, most of the Bolshevik films like they’re, you know, no one’s ever heard of them they’ve barely been translated to English, or other languages, you know, so it’s just not even comparable as far as how the narrative of that event has reached of the world.

 

Horus: Yeah I mean, chambers listen list alone is enormous impact human people who almost don’t even need to watch it and know they were I imagine those people who on the way to the cinema were already letting themselves be emotionally offense. But I didn’t know they’re gonna go see this, you know, they’d heard these reviews described them as powerful and so on, you know, any but and he said this is going to make me more righteous in some way see it’s incredible I mean, that’s marketing as well isn’t it?

 

Jeff: Yeah yeah that’s why there has to be there’s a whole mechanism and ecosystem as to what legitimizes those messages to like it’s the critics that’s a part of its the marketing all of those things kind of combined and that’s why I’m excited about what Nick is doing with vial is, because I’ve been saying thinking for a while and cuff set it on some podcast and things that we needed like a non-communist rolling stone, you know, something that’s like chic and hip and has like youthful energy in it that kind of captures that same kind of vibe but from our perspective and I’m not saying that vial is necessarily doing that, but it has elements of that I mean, it’s definitely it’s very aesthetic and it is chic and hip and I’m just saying, you know, it’s not quite ruling stone, or non-communist really [30:00] Rolling Stone is a mess, you know, its own thing over there, but that’s why I really like what dick and Lucy are doing, because I think it’s incredibly important I got really excited when I saw that they were doing T

 

Simon: That’s the perfect moment for Nick to come in really isn’t it and do you think Nick that there’s a some kind of crossover between what you’re doing and watch what Jeff and his collective are doing.

 

Unwashed: There’s a huge crossover I mean, I’ve already we hosted their mixtape last week and I think we’re both being interviewed by them soon and we’re gonna return the favor and cross-pollination is the best thing that we can do in the cultural side of things. I mean, it’s the best thing that you can do in the political wing as well but like I just said one inch at four for the serious and high earth collaboration, because that made it further than any of the stuff that they’ve done before I think it was a really big deal that the two people that were sort of separately respected had to come together to do something it felt like a nice leap forward and there’s been lots of these in 2020. I do want to talk about like we’d already touched on the fact that you don’t have to be like a tub-thumping nationalists in your lyrics to fit in this that’s not what we’re aiming for and I seem a lot of people won’t know this but like before I started the channel I’d actually written a whole album of songs and I wasn’t an ethno-nationalism dabao things and I’d started writing about them so that’s like an example of how yeah I wasn’t where I am now. But I still needed to write something that was like a rejection of everything that I was being fed by my crap leftist music scene so there must be tons and tons of people out there like that and what’s really interesting about some of the songs I’ve written is they’ve actually become a lot more pertinent since then like I did one about the Covington kids where when I wrote it I thought I was just honing in on these kids and the fact that they were demonized and they’d been highlighted for being White and privileged and stuff by actually looking back on it a year later I’m like oh that’s a song about White people so I don’t know the fact that so many artists will feel unwelcome in the current paradigm and they’ll have that desire in them to create art, because Europeans have that stronger than anyone else I think. They’re gonna want to create and that doesn’t mean that it’s going to have to be addressing what really happened around the 1930s no it’s just gonna be what’s in them and what they’re concerned about what the real thoughts are but it started happening, you know, I think that the White Art Collective is people that were so desperate to do this that they found each other I’ll gonna pass it back to Jeff to see if that’s true but most of the people actually started writing before discovering that this was a thing, because that’s what I’ve heard.

 

Jeff: Yeah, I think there’s kind of a mixture there I think everybody was already, you know, an artist that had done something to some extent but maybe they’d kind of put it away, because you kind of implicitly pick up on the fact that what you’re creating if you just naturally create something that’s an expression of your European people that it, you know, comes from that perspective it’s a distinct thing you already know that’s like not wanted in society. They’re trying for more diversity they don’t want any of that Hollywood is too White the music industry is too White supposedly right and so people just feel disincentivized if that’s a word, you know, to create so you well yeah, I think like for me I’ve been doing this I mean, I’ve been creating independently for like 20 years. So I I’d yeah it is I’ve basically for me yeah was just like a frustration of like there’s there is no thing that’s there is no organization, or entity that I can join that it’s gonna help me do what I need to do so I guess I’ll have to create it, you know, that’s just the kind of guy I am. And I think you’re correct that there were people there were artists out there who were kind of seeking something even if they didn’t know it and then when they came across us they’re like oh cool, you know, this is exactly what I kind of need I need a group of people who think more like I do that I can work with on this kind of stuff, because you just can’t be an artist in a vacuum. And if you were it would kind of suck.

 

Unwashed: Well what’s really wonderful about the White Art Collective is I’ve seen it already today anytime [35:00] that one of you guys is guesting on someone else’s podcast the chat fills up with your guys and they’re so supportive and so happy and people are like keen to pitch in and help one another and it’s markedly different from the music scene that I was used to where it was a bit false, because it was a hierarchy and a ladder which everyone was trying to climb and everyone’s really rivals with one another but can’t really say it out loud and obviously everyone’s doing their whoa cover to signaling the whole way along so everyone’s just lying all day every day anyway. But there’s a desperation within this network where if you’ve got, you know, one talent, or one ability and someone else needs it boom you’re together and you’re going to be helping each other for free, because you’re working towards something much bigger, whereas the leftist music scene that I came from it was nothing more than self aggrandizement it was just like how big can I make my platform what’s the biggest gig that I can get how many people can I get looking at me whereas what we got over here is authentic and driven by something else I love it!

 

Simon: Isn’t this a relative oh it seems to me being the old guy here. I don’t know how old Jeff is but I’m pushing 60. So I’ve been around around the park a few times. But back in my day there was a strong sense of community between musicians back in when I was playing in punk and post-punk bands back in Natyam we had the Nottingham musician’s collective and we helped how each other’s out with gear all the hands used to go and see each other all the time when we recorded out for a single I remember people helping us out blending as a van to get down to London I mean, what are the things that has happened certainly during my lifetime is this community sense and it’s the anti-White the anti-White campaign is being successful this community sense is really full and full of their party so I think it’s what Jeff is doing and what we’re all trying to do is recapture something that is really part of very recent memory I don’t know what you think about that?

 

Unwashed: I’d like to hop in on that one really quickly is the scene that you’re describing the people pitching in helping each other out supporting the other bands that does exist that. That was still there in that music scene that I was involved with the problem was that they were unified against an enemy that didn’t even exist they were so anti-racist and anti Brexit and anti gammon and all of that stuff and I seriously mean it every single gig that I went to before just going, you know, will screw all this I give up I need a new life had an orange man bad spiel in it every last one had a Trump rant, or some pro-choice rant, or whatever it become a monoculture! So they still pitched in and helped each other out but they also were continually talking about how much they despised more than half of the country. So that’s where the rock really is.

 

Horus: I remember in about 2003 I think the last song it’s a Reading Festival there was all the hands I saw maybe one maybe two at most made some little spiel on stage about I think it’s holy blare at a time from the Left though and it was cringe-worthy then but it was exceptional and now you’re saying that almost is you almost can’t not do it is that right?

 

Unwashed: Yeah man I went to a Folk Festival last summer and, you know, in my head that’s sort of me getting away from it all this is me reveling in tradition all traditional performers playing instruments that you barely see anymore and still orange man bad every single set every single set and I’m there going you guys don’t actually know what you’re doing you’re actually fighting our fight without even realizing it you might you might say like oh we need to help the refugees but you’re on a stage with your hurdy-gurdy, or whatever holding up European tradition you’re actually fighting I’ll fight and you don’t even know it.

 

Jeff: Yeah the I think what kind of to what we were talking about earlier what the mistake that they’re making is now everything is overtly political in the art that they do and so I think it’s driving out a lot of artists who are not necessarily even political at all and who are not even necessarily leaning in our direction. But I think that the art scene on their side is so terrible and toxic that we could start picking up people who actually lean more left in the spectrum better more sensible reasonable folk who just are so sick of everything being political, because it’s [40:00] art is not supposed to be that political you know, they’ve basically the they’re kind of the people who’ve pushed all of that into art they used like we talked about earlier they used to be very clever it used to be subtle, because they had to be and then when they kind of gained more power and they’ve been consolidating power and now everything’s just right in your face and they’re just like bragging all the time and every single film has a very obvious race-mixing agenda. And it’s just obnoxious and even a lot of non-White people are tired of that, because everyone knows that they know that there’s an agenda behind it so you can’t just sit there and enjoy the music you can’t just sit there and enjoy the film you, you know, that you’re being force-fed this ham-fisted message and it ruins the experience. And I think that’s something that we need to use to our advantage which is why we can’t turn around and do the same thing we don’t want to fight, you know, bad propaganda with bad propaganda ham-fisted garbage we want to make great truly inspired art that comes from our perspective and I think in doing that a lot of people on the other side are just gonna be like I like what those guys are doing over there I don’t agree with everything but they look like they’re having a good time and they’re not talking about orange man bad every five seconds and they’re not pushing this agenda. So I’m just gonna go see what they’re all about, you know, and from there I think we just start winning them over in other areas.

 

Unwashed: There’s a song that I’ve found literally within the last week which touches basically on what Jeff is talking about Harris by a band called Fiddler’s then it’s called too real and I’ll just read some lyrics if I can do that very quickly, because I think what they are is they’re not nationalists they’re not right-wingers but they are people who have in a left-wing music scene that have realized what the problem is and absolutely sick of it so they’re rebelling against like woke authoritarians, rather than being, you know, all the way over our side they are some frustrated lefties from the looks of it so the lyrics are well I’ve been thinking about things I can’t say, because everybody freaks out every single day. And if they weren’t so stupid they’d open their eyes the dudududud drugs man saved my life and so on, but like they’re just frustrated with local authoritarian intersectional leftism and they’ve given up on that and then we did put out an article on vile this week which pointed out that on Twitter if you do one of these parody accounts whether you’re taking a piss out of the write with Barry Stanton or, you know, brixi it means Brexit those kind of accounts, or you’re taking a piss out the Left with titania McGrath, or Godfrey elf wick the joke is always on the Left and the people that get it are always on the right no matter what the target is the Left is just a lull Cal that’s based on falsehood so it’s so easy to take the piss out of it without even being, you know, where we are.

 

Horus: For those of them who are just doing an automatic kind of way as well they just caught up in the idea that you basically you more, or less have to o’clock these political talking points they a lot of them probably can be appealed to right there just caught up in a kind of sad and weak way but they’re not, you know, they’re not doing out of malevolence as such it’s just I would say this applies to so many things there’s just like a leading cadre of like more evil malevolent types. But there’s a lot of people who like what Jeff was describing before like the people having become so overly political that they’re gonna turn around and go what else is on like what else can I watch, because this is just this is freezing me out almost but it does seem like the ideal time for a more other mode joyful I don’t know exactly what the right word with people just like something coming of its cellular art for its own sake once more, you know, like which should never have gone away but somehow has become submerged for them to turn trying to find that right now it seems like a great time, you know, it seems like a great time for that to happen so. But I think what our collective and vile like it seems very, very timely menos.

 

Unwashed: I think because, as you say, like all of the art the mainstream art it’s expected to virtue signal now like everyone knew exactly what was gonna happen with that Doctor Who series as soon as it was announced there was a woman it’s like well that’s not gonna be the only woke thing in there it’s gonna just be a whole series of White guilt. But that gives us the freedom to, as you say, make something that actually appears on the surface quite neutral and might even be neutral, you know, I think up our team is [45:00] essentially fighting to do things that we always used to like village fete and stuff like that it’s all quite quaint.

 

Horus: Your story especially Nick over the last years is this quite a strong emotional strain so we’re talking about like you’ve actually been shunned right for doing nothing wrong and there’s a lot of other people who are ready for some sort of emotional some sort of welcoming once again, you know, not always having to harsh, or antifa as they are not aesthetic but the harsh antifa facet, or don’t know what the word is. But I the harshness of the nasty left, you know, some people are gonna want something that’s absent from which that is absent, you know, they’re gonna want something it’s just enjoyable and pleasant and lovely in some ways, you know, and things like that I mean, vile isn’t particularly lovely, but a vile is very funny but, you know, like lovely meaty like. But I think of higher if not, you know, things that people are just gonna want loveliness for his own sake and, you know, humor for as I say I mean, good I’ve said this before. But I used to love a lot of left-wing comedians I was already on the right I would say buy you some oblong left-wing committee that especially think of Stewart Lee until 2010 when the Tories got back in government and they just all suddenly became political and I was like oh right this is I figure this out over a while. This is a thing they do wooden when Labour are in government they’re funny when the Tories in government there’s just warriors and they’re not funny anymore, you know, they think they forget about laughing for its own sake I forget about is making people laugh just uh you can’t only think that we want we do want satire and stuff as well but the automaticity with which the Left adopted that kind of strategy almost, or something I was just auto response was just ugly and dismal and I would welcome anything that could break that pattern.

 

Simon: I was just wondering Jeff when you were in the communes and everything were you left-leaning back then how long have you actually been a been a nationalist, or White centric.

 

Jeff: So yeah, like when I was younger I mean, I was like I would always say that I was like a left-leaning independent there was a period where I watched John Stewart and thought that that was funny, because they were taking the piss out of the George with bush neocon, you know, corporatism kind of vibe and I liked that. And then, you know, then we went through with the Obama years and I was like wait a second, you know, the anti-White part came out and I still don’t like the neo-cons, you know, so that was like the one side and now there’s the far-left who’s like the global communist faction you got the right which is the Republican types that are more the global capitalist faction and then so now people are realizing like oh you don’t have to like either these guys these are two distinctly different sets of groups that aren’t with us either of them. So I kind of went through that process and also just getting a little bit older and more mature, you know, people tend to start to lean a little bit more to the right become a little more conservative close ranks a little bit and I think it was also just seeing the it was fine when the idea was like hey let’s all just be nice to each other, you know, it was okay tolerate this other groups differences okay sure, you know, and I’m the kind of guy who’s always been interested in other cultures, because I’m just a I’m interested in culture in general. So it’s kind of fascinating that all these different ways that different people are but that never meant I was giving up my own culture I’m very much an American and my family on my dad’s sides been here for four hundred years, you know, I think that’s I feel like that’s plenty of time to develop a very distinct identity so and, you know, so when I felt that they were encroaching on that like. But it’s not okay to be White as like no that was not part of the deal so that all of that I don’t feel like I really changed that much like everything else went crazy to the Left is what how it feels to me.

 

Simon: Yeah, I think that’s quite similar to me if I look back to my musician days which is pretty much 1977 to 1995, 1996 um so it’s a while ago now. But I want really often used the term to refer to myself default leftist I was kind of seriously left when I was at university that kind of rebellious stage when I read Marx and I made all this angry post-punk music but it wasn’t really [50:00] it was default leftist it was left it was rebellion left it certainly wasn’t anti-White it seems to me that this and today actually I was in preparing preparation for this stream is an odd preparation I watched the documentary on YouTube which was 60 years of the Shadows which Cliff Richard for the shadows and just watching it was this was everything was automatically White back then. It didn’t really cross anybody’s mind to be anything else this is typically British culture but looking at their autumn, you know, Brian May Pete Townsend the various Beatles talking about how much the shadows had influenced them and then me moving up into the 70s glam rock punk and even making this post-punk tape mix for Nick it’s only since I’ve stopped music that this anti-White agenda, or that I’ve become aware of its really kicked into kind of hyper mode. I certainly wasn’t aware of it when I was younger although as default leftist I imagine. This is a bit like you.

 

Jeff: Yeah and I mean, I grew up in a very rural Midwest ER and environment might, you know, my dad is the very blue-collar so I kind of was inherently born into this pretty right weaning right-leaning perspective, you know, we were all about collecting guns working on cars, you know, all that kind of stuff driving tractors around.

 

Simon: Having BBQs.

 

Jeff: Yeah BBQs [laughter] but burgers love them hamburgers. But yeah, I it was a very gradual process and it was like you said back then the like, you know, I really started kind of coming of age in the early 90s I started really paying attention to music and I realized I had a knack for it and an interest in it and I started playing and the music of the early 90s which I do think there was a legitimately inspired thing going on there with, you know, grunge movement and a lot of that kind of thing I’m a big fan of Radiohead the I know those guys politics are not the greatest. But I still like, you know, a lot of their music you can’t deny that they’re incredibly talented artists so I and, of course, I think Radiohead is super British right they’re super White that’s in same way with bands like a tool I’m a big fan of tool and all of this stuff was still very inherently White. It was nihilistic it was maybe not going in a the greatest direction, you know, obviously Nirvana to it stuff like that, but it still was very much an expression I think of people of European descent. And then that all kind of started to shift in the mid 90s things got more corporate I think also had a lot to do with the ownership of like record labels and just media in general became very centralized actually in the United States there was a Telecommunications Act of 1996 to where we used to have, you know, certain regulations you could only own somebody rate so many radio stations TV stations newspapers, etc., in a given market and they started breaking down all those regulations to where basically you could monopolize and then this company Clear Channel came in and just bought up all these radio stations and everything became very formatted you’ve probably seen those like Supercuts where they show like all these different local quote-unquote TV stations who are all literally reading the exact same script from, you know, that’s obviously been handed down from high on from the corporate down the ladder. And I think that’s played a huge part in who owns the media like who owns this is something I’ve found in working, you know, with what I’m doing with wack is like curation is an incredibly important important part of culture and art and someone is deciding what gets made and who gets played and it’s as important what is played as what isn’t played and that kind of goes back to my point about it’s clear that the people who get to decide who are very much anti-White those people who get to decide what gets put out there and are kind of the bottlenecks for mass distribution they clearly don’t want the kind of stuff I would make, or that Nick would make or, you know, anybody in the wider collective would make they don’t want that kind of stuff even if it’s they might not even always be aware of it doesn’t you don’t have to have some, you know, they don’t have to get like a handed down [55:00] memo although, at this point, they are they are that overt. But there was a time when they weren’t that over it was just kind of understood but yeah, I think that’s a huge part of like you’re saying it there was a point where it was still it was still an expression of us and then it kind of gradually changed and I just thrown that in there, because I think it has a lot to do with the media ownership was consolidated and now we’re in the situation where there’s just a small handful of companies that own all of this so they decide luckily they’re being their delegate amaizing themselves but they’re still incredibly powerful and I still a lot of people kind of fall for the trick, you know,

 

Simon: Yeah I mean, I come from a generation when Indy really when Indy wasn’t a music category when it was really independent when people really did make their own music and many of them, you know, became successful as on the basis of this I was hoping with the internet, you know, I’m kind of interesting culture I just find it, or interested in music I just find so little very, very inspiring these days and I’m very disappointed that the internet without organizations like the White Art Collective the internet hasn’t yes there’s lots of bands out there doing things getting their own small followings but relatively few people have broken through to the mainstream from the internet and I think. This is a real disappointment in and in many work ways what you’re saying about curating things and forming a collective and turning something like the White out collective whack as you like to call it turning whack into a vanguard that breaks down this barrier because, you know, we’ve got to get out in front of more people we’ve got to get on system onto the mainstream in many respects.

 

Jeff: Yeah for sure and it’s kind of that was another one of the reasons that I did I started the White Art Collective is that I recognize that it’s all about organization these people are able to decide what gets played and they get to shape culture by curating what’s played and what isn’t played what films get produced and what films don’t get produced, or even like how they are critiqued now we see that Rotten Tomatoes and sites like that, or clearly kind of yeah I don’t want to make any definitive statements but it seems like there’s a big difference between audience scores which there sometimes can be in critic scores. But there seems to be some Borg hivemind thing going on with critics on certain films seemingly the ones that are the most kind of politically driven but. But yeah, that’s kind of what we’re up against and I recognized that you have to get organized if you want to do anything about it, you know, you need a mechanism and something I’ve been thinking a lot about is that you need a distribution mechanism and you need an ecosystem of people doing various things like critique there’s the production itself you need the people kind of promoting it and talking about it and hyping it up like vile, you know, and things of that nature so that you can even begin to compete like we know that there’s a lot of people who are really frustrated with what’s going on but right now they’re not really seeing a legitimate alternative. And I think that’s the vacuum that we need to fill I see this as a huge opportunity and it’s not all about making money, of course, it has to be about making great art first. But I do think there’s an opportunity for that too, because there’s just so many people who are so tired everything all the stuff that’s being made with the orange man bad message constantly caulking them over the head there’s a huge there’s a huge vacuum to be filled. And it’s just a matter of us getting organized in a meaningful way as a united front with organizations like vile wack and also in the political realm with what you guys are doing.

 

 

Unwashed: I’ll give you a White pill on that note though, is that everyone who’s within our community is so keen to get on board with anything that’s pushed out that’s art, that’s ours! Like let’s do a quick one in chat – who’s heard “Keep in Mind” by “Xurious and Hiraeth” – you’re gonna get a sea of ones here. But if I was to say:

 

“Right let’s pick a decent song from the mainstream, from the last five years that we all know and we all like and we all agree on.”

 

We probably won’t be able to do it! Because (a) we’ve ducked out the mainstream, but (be) there’s nothing good comes through there. But we unify around this stuff. So as soon as someone pumps out something that’s from our gang we’re all really proud of it and desperate to share it and support it straight away. So I think that gives us a huge, huge advantage!

 

Jeff: Yeah, I agree there. And that was, and is, an excellent collaboration between Xurious and Hiraeth, and very exciting. When I first heard that I got a little behind-the-scenes. I was like “that’s really good” and I had a really good feeling about it. And yeah, I’m so happy that that has had the legs that it has. And there’s no reason that, I mean, it’s of the production value and the quality, talent-wise, that people couldn’t hear that. And it absolutely should be competing on the same level with anything that’s on top 40 radio.

 

But it’s better, because it has real heart in it. And I agree it is a White pill! And that’s just one of many to come. And I think too that that one is kind of more accessible, because it is kind of, somewhat in the style of things what is acceptable and hip right now in the music world. And what I want to do is build a bridge from that kind of thing into, … Because the thing is, there’s other incredibly brilliant stuff that Hiraeth, for instance, is doing. Some of its a little more experimental. Like things you would have heard, you know, it’s been a long time since you’ve heard like experimental kind of quote-unquote “weird music” become popular. But, like I say, in the 90s there was a lot of interesting wild stuff that I don’t think would have ever made it through now, in the music industry.

 

And like, she did a collaboration, another one, with a guy called “Dystopia Park”. And it’s called “Origin”, or “Origins” and it’s really cool! And I mean, I want to build a bridge with kind of like, the stuff that’s more accessible to the more interesting stuff that I think is going to, … That’s kind of what changes culture right? Our culture, everything’s been kind of watered down a little bit. So like, it’ll be interesting to see, you know, as hopefully we can get more people listening to the stuff that’s a little bit more out there, that maybe that will start to cultivate just more thought and kind of a more difference in culture in general. It seems like it’s become very mono, I don’t know, just very kind of myopic, I guess.

 

Unwashed: I’d like to quickly hop back to what you were saying about how the culture was clearly a White culture and that’s just sort of somehow been erased. The bands that you were mentioning. Grunge, name all the grunge artists? You’re not gonna find a black drummer in there are you? And “Tool” is another great example.

 

And I wrote a piece for Vile not too long ago that was all about —because I think Horus might have some insight into this as well — it was all about the Reading Festival and how when I went 50 Cent got booked as a second headliner. And we all knew exactly why that was wrong! Is because you’re stepping on our turf essentially! This is some part of culture that we do not approve of! And it wasn’t a strictly like racist “we hate hip-hop thing”, because there were other artists there who were black hip-hop artists who were, you know, like it was fine.

 

But 50 Cent, specifically — it was like you have wasted this slot on us, and we are really not happy about it! Because, you know, that this doesn’t represent us! We know that this doesn’t represent us! Even 50 Cent up there knows, because there’s a shower of bottles hitting him in the face! But now, Stormzy could be booked as the headliner without anyone batting an eyelid. That’s gone now! It’s not a White rock festival anymore. And you could watch it happen over the course of a decade. And I think 50 Cent getting bottled was the last truly great Reading Festival moment!

 

Jeff: What year was that?

 

Unwashed: 2004.

 

Horus: Yeah like it’s true what you’re saying though, that there was plenty of hip hop elements at least accepted within metal, and, you know, alternative rock. Like you could have Biohazard and loads of other groups who had like sort of metal music, but a rap singer. And you’d have all these people listening to hip-hop, you know, like, but maybe not at the festival, but it was part of their repertoire, or whatever But that was something different.

 

I mean, because you had the same thing with dance music as well. That metallers, you know, if you were in the metal scene in the 90s and early 2000s, you weren’t allowed to like dance music really, right? But you could like “The Prodigy” [chuckling] and a couple of other groups. There was like a selection there. I don’t know what point I’m making here, but it’s exactly true what you said Nick.

 

Unwashed: That all got broken down with Pendulum, interestingly. Then it was okay for you to like both.

 

[65:01]

 

Horus: Who were alright in the first 5 minutes of their career, they were quite good. Then they just went awful!

 

Unwashed: I don’t think we’re gonna delve into the artistic integrity of Pendulum today [loud laughter], but I know what you mean. Another feature of Reading, was that when the dance tent started being expanded, I remember all the rock and metallers — who were there for the lineup, not to get pissed and just because their friends were going – the people actually liked Reading, because it was Reading were really not happy about it! They were like “we’re losing it!”. And they were right, because if you look at the poster now, it’s like, there’s some rock — none of it has any balls! Yeah, tons of grime, tons of dance — it’s gone!

 

Horus: So blending everything together. Jeff, I have a question. I assume you’re sort of like broadly in touch with the political side of things. But in case, like what I’m sure, most people have experienced this, that I’m like, you know, I don’t make any art — I do obviously listen to music and stuff — but I’m strongly politically focused. And I think Nick and Simon would agree as well, that this year there’s been a distinct optimism that has been lacking for well I dunno, I’ve never experienced before, in terms of what we can achieve politically. Like it may even be possible to convert, more or less, millions of people to our way of thinking. Do you find any corresponding sense of optimism on the cultural side? Is it the same, or is there anything equivalent to that?

 

Jeff: Yeah, I mean, I think in the spheres I’m in I think people are very optimistic about the cultural side. We’re kind of up and coming because, you know, I think the political element is kind of the immediate and more obvious thing that has developed. And that’s been around the political element of nationalism. And the cultural and art side of it has been lacking. I think partially just because things weren’t getting dire enough to where it was drawing kind of artistically minded people. Who I do think kind of lean naturally to the Left. That doesn’t mean that they’re – I don’t mean Left like necessarily Marxist, or communist – but just kind of more intuitive and kind of “feeling”, rather than “thinking”.

 

So I think, there’s an optimism there, because it is starting to shift. Like there’s kind of a natural process to all of this to where they, they’ve pushed too far. Like we were talking earlier. Like there was this long trajectory of shift to the far Left since, you know, probably after World War Two, and really gaining steam in the 1960s. And then it’s just been this non-stop, just bulldozer, to the most absurd ideas. Just everything goes, laissez faire, normalization of pedophilia, and all of these things that people couldn’t even imagine even 10, or 15 years ago! And I think that stuff being shoehorned into a lot of the art is really just waking people up. And just causing a natural kind of seismic shift back to a more traditional way of thinking, in the sense that it’s like:

 

“Look this stuff is a little bit too far, things were working better when we had families, and men and women were getting along.”

 

You know, it doesn’t have to be extreme, you don’t have to have “Third Reich” anything. It’s just just basic common sense that those things work better. We’ve been doing those things for thousands of years! And the nation is a the most obvious and functional type of organization.

 

And perhaps there will be some kind of greater, I think “confederacy”, I think of it that way as far as, you know, the alliances of European nations. But I think nationalism is still ultimately just the obvious way to organize. And there’s just a shift back to that in a common-sense way.

 

But yeah, back to the main question is that I think there definitely is an optimism, because we’re seeing, like I said, we’re seeing more bands and stuff contacting us. And who are just kind of like “yeah why not”, I mean, “White Art Collective”! We’ve kind of broken down that barrier of them thinking that, … I picked that name specifically, because it is a little bit “triggering” on a couple of fronts. And I’m not necessarily one who goes out trying to “trigger” people. [70:01] But obviously, because the “White” part. But also to kind of get people back into the concept of “collectivism” not belonging to the Left, you know? Any organization is a “collective”, and that doesn’t mean it has a Leftist bent necessarily at all. A family is a collective, you know.

 

But I think there’s a huge amount of optimism! And now that people are starting to see that what we can, the results of coming together like this. Just like the Xurious and Hiraeth song, what’s possible. What we’re capable of doing with like no resources other than our creativity and willingness to work together! Imagine when we actually start putting some money behind this. And people get more on board with what’s happening, and more and more people, and more of a critical mass.

 

We are going to be making our own films and things. We actually had a “Spooky Short Film Contest” in the fall, that didn’t get as much attention as it should have. But I mean, people weren’t quite there. We’re still growing and developing. But we’re doing it again this year, and we’re gonna continue to do stuff like that. And again I’m super optimistic about it! And I think more and more people are gonna come to us wanting to be part of that, to have fun and just to make great art!

 

Horus: Will that be for Halloween?

 

Jeff: Yeah, we did that for Halloween, yeah. So if anybody out there is interested, yeah, we’re gonna have a “Spooky Short Film Contest” for Halloween. And last year we had a $1,000 cash prize. I haven’t announced anything on that yet, but we’ll definitely at least have a $1,000 cash prize. We’ll look into the other stuff as well.

 

Horus: Or a year’s supply of pumpkins maybe? [laughter]

 

Simon: Okay. I just want to give a shout out to some of the White Art Collective people I’ve seen in the chat. I’ve seen Hiraeth, I’m not sure how to pronounce it properly, Hiraeth Music. I think Jack White was in there earlier. What’s the, I can’t find his name, what was the French guy “Iodore” or something like that, I’ve seen him there.

 

Jeff: Yeah, I think it’s “Hayard”? I think that’s like the English, or I like to say it with a French accent, like “Heyodd”, you know! [chuckling]

 

Simon: Someone else I want to give a big shout out to, and it’s a shame, perhaps we ought to stream sometime mate. But his name now is Edmond Marta. But in another life, he’s Champion Puffer. And he’s a kind of techno acid house DJ. I can’t remember the name of his radio station. But he’s definitely on our side. And it’s something, … Puffer, you need to be writing stuff! You need to get on board bringing your culture, ‘cos I know, you know, we’ve exchanged experiences back from those days.

 

Because I used to go down to a studio where – I don’t know if, you know, this label Nick – “Rising High” were based. And I used to know Casper Pound and Pete Smith. I was in the studio, when “The Shaman” were in there one time. Back in those days! So for me, that kind of period of music, it was a reliving of punk in many respects. I know you and I disagree with this. But for me, this was the last shout of rock and roll. It was the kind of acid house days.

 

Unwashed: Well I don’t think that it ever dies. I think that you see inklings of it everywhere. Because we discussed the other day that is just a natural thing that teenage boys go through, this rebellion thing. And it often comes out as art.

 

So I was saying, like I saw the same thing going on in dubstep, which will sound ridiculous to people older than me! But all of these scenes have like a kernel of truth in them, and then they get ridiculous and comical, and descend into self parody. But yeah, there is always something real there.

 

I love that in this chat today, everyone is basically on side with the idea of a lot of rave music is ours! Because months ago, I remember contending with this as an issue going, :

 

“Well it’s made by White people, for White people, and White people enjoy it.”

 

There’s a certain angle that is:

 

“You have to be on drugs to enjoy it!”

 

You don’t! Loads of people listen to it when they’re not on drugs.

 

And I like the idea of us claiming these scenes. I have a theory that drum and bass specifically, like most of the “jungleists” are based, because it’s just unignorable in those clubs. If you go to a club with less White people, it’s more dangerous. And they just know that. So that’s kind of why I was using drum and bass in those Groyper videos, because I was like, :

 

“I got an inkling here, this is not the most woke multi-culti scene, we can have this one.”

 

And everyone today, was saying like “happy hardcore”, everyone loves happy hardcore. And that’s specifically British! Like, French people don’t get it, German people don’t get it, Dutch people certainly don’t get it. They’ve all got their own strands of hardcore electronic music, which I don’t understand! I cannot get onboard with Dutch hardcore at all! I think is just horrendous noise! But “happy hardcore” is ours. So I mean, it busts this whole sort of degeneracy argument, which I think we’re all fed up of. Like, we all love folk music, but yeah, I think we’re gonna need more than that. So I like that we’ve got a pro-rave section in the chat going on today.

 

[75:53]

 

 

Horus: May I think you’re spot on trying to reclaim these scenes I was gonna say something before that I think there’s some sort of nostalgia rowing angle we can use as well like, because I would see nostalgia on the Left at least for like leftists who a big Institute overi doctrinaire no starter is considered generally a kind of fascistic thing right, or a reactionary, or fascistic thing whereas we don’t really have any fear of nostalgia I think like the idea has been put about by the Left over the last 70, or years that anything that pines for the past is not only reactionary and fascistic, but also idiocy idiocy, because they believe generally in the sort of Whiggish theory of history that things are always proceeding towards the ever better future whereas we don’t really that’s not really part of our thinking I think technology advances but, you know. A lot of things are lost, you know, and have to be refound, or never be found and the Left I think over the 20th century tried to convince us and have it has worked on a lot of people that it’s an illusion to think that things were ever better but as Simon said you haven’t bought any music any new music since like the mid 90s I’m pretty much saying maybe up to the late 90s and I am convinced that’s caused by an objective change music actually became crap by the millennium like pop music became crap it was like a few nuggets left. I don’t think I’ve bought any music made since 2010 anyway and I and the there was genuine brilliance still in the 90s I mean, a lot of my favorite music is from the first off the 90s electronic music in my case the Future Sound of London, or a fixed win orbital and stuff like that and again what we said Nick but basically these were White things they were mostly a lot of them were lefties even thickness, or most of them, but it was White stuff it was White music made, you know, made by YV been enjoyed by White people even I mentioned at all they were sort of a dub group right so, you know, this Caribbean thing even so it was White guys doing it and White people listened to it and there is something in there and you couldn’t awaken, or you can use the nostalgia people have for when music was still good to awaken some degree of racial consciousness I believe us I think you’re absolutely strategically spot on doing that.

 

Unwashed: Nostalgia has made like making these vile episodes ten times easier, because weird I know the simon doesn’t like me using the phrase counterculture, because I need you can expand on why I shouldn’t be using that phrase.

 

Simon: I will do.

 

Unwashed: Cool but we are pushing against something that’s been repressed and like mainstream culture is progressive so it’s all about change and what’s new what’s cutting-edge what’s the latest thing and everyone’s sick of that now, so really all we’ve had to do is go back over the last few decades of like, you know, clips of edgy Brits giving interviews like Johnny Rotten, or just I don’t know something from father Ted it’s all nostalgia and we just build it up and go hey remember this was better than it is now wasn’t it now you’ve got the last leg you don’t have any comedy anymore washed-out is easy.

 

Horus: We are saying quite clearly it was better at times in the past things are things now are shit it’s not just that every generation thinks that’s a lie whereas things now are crapper than they were 20 years ago in sounds of culture.

 

Unwashed: And again there’s people that hate all rap and they’re entitled to that opinion but storm Z is an objectively bad rapper.

 

Horus: I mean, I don’t like it less than I did five years ago I’ve become more of a sort of racialist sits in but like 2pac was a good rap our [80:00] storm Z is not, you know, maybe some people just chuckle of all of rap outs, or whatever but, you know, that isn’t they still an example of things in decline even on the backside, you know,

 

Jeff: Yeah I just want to say that I agree that the on the electronic music thing on that front I do think that’s overwhelmingly a White thing first of all you have to have electricity for it to work [loud laughter] just kidding okay that’s the first thing, but also we actually have a show called dance squared we have a DJ live DJ set on Saturday nights and he does like techno which house all these genres that I don’t underst Jones a bass some of them I know and, you know, some of them delve deeply into areas that I’m not familiar with vaporwave he does a lot of vaporwave but uh that and he’s definitely our guy DJ boxcar and it’s funny, because we’ve had a little interaction with kind of the vaporwave scene he kind of they were all, you know, when he started becoming a little bit more woke, so to speak, a lot of these people, of course, as we’ve been discussing we’re very much on the side of the spectrum and giving him a hard time and they’ve kind of tagged me in some of these discussions they’ve had on Twitter and it didn’t go well for them I think they were trying to tag me to be like oh he’s associating with this White Art Collective these evil people and really they just they’re like wait a second maybe I shouldn’t tag them, because they’re just giving them more attention and we got some follows from that little exchange and I was like just kind of doing some basic talking points of like which would you be really opposed to a black art collective, or a jewish art collective, you know, and it’s a very reasonable question to ask but it is good to see that we have more people and he’s kind of even got his own group of electronic artists that he’s been working with for a while called the modernity leave and so yeah we that’s definitely much definitely in our sphere I think and I love electronic music I’ve, you know, years ago been out to the clubs and stuff I’m not that old it wasn’t that long ago but, you know, is I definitely enjoy that kind of thing. And I think it’s important that kind of — what you guys were talking about with the pasts anything from the past seemingly being antiquated I think is a good word is they always want it to feel like that’s all over the future is always looking forward everything has to be more technologically advanced, etc. But I think we need to find a way to kind of to create that aesthetic that blends modern technology and kind of futurism and I know their existing bodies have thought on this like I think RKO futurism and this kind of thing that kind of blend that past aesthetic and the value with the future kind of technology and I think it’ll be interesting to see what kind of aesthetics we come up with, in doing that kind of thing and one other thing I was just curious if you guys were fans of Daft Punk at all.

 

Horus: [words unclear]

 

Unwashed: Okay our second one was better I think is homework the first one and discovery the second discovery had all the singles yeah, so I thought I’m an encyclopedia over here.

 

Jeff: I like I thought random access memories was really good I thought that was a really good album personally.

 

Unwashed: It was I waited ages before listening to that one, because it was really overhyped I like to avoid things like that for about six to eight months, because. I don’t think you get a clear picture it’s really good that album yeah I’ll give you that.

 

Horus: I think what was the Saturday night oh that’s a jeff: On our show?

 

Horus: Yeah I just wanna check out.

 

Jeff: Yeah, so Saturday nights dance squared on our DLive it’s after it’s usually about tits it’s gonna be late really late for you guys it’s like 10:00 p.m. Eastern so it’d be what like a.m. You guys time so that’s probably hard but wait the replays we put up on BitChute but uh and with our main flagship show we actually have like seven, or eight shows now our main show that the first one I started with Saturday night live stream which is every Saturday at 9 p.m. On our DLive and that’s where we like we kind of bring our musicians in and like feature a lot of new music like we’re usually featuring a new at least a couple new artists and a lot of new songs like pretty much every week okay.

 

Simon: And that’s DLive White Art Collective I mean, if you if any of you follow any of us you’ll find that, or certainly I follow Jeff I follow the White Art Collectives so just look at who I follow and you can follow them and find find out what’s going on. I just want to do before we move on I want to do the one [85:01] and only Entropy that were the one on a superchat that we’ve got so far hint hint nudge nudge.

 

Unwashed: I’m Paul saying it wasn’t up earlier Simon wait.

 

Simon: I think it’s back up now Michael yeah, so you roll on roll on up I’ll read them out. And the one we’ve got is from The Thin Red Line great boat bloke who tends uh sends us ten US dollars and says:

 

“Great stream more creators should seal for the White Art Collective that’s what we’re doing it is very important that we get a pro-White media company so we can start retaking our culture which start to raise funds for this project project.”

 

I quite agree any comments on this any kind of fundraising initiatives in the future Jeff.

 

Jeff: Yeah I’m definitely for that 100 percent I think that so kind of what I envision the White Art Collective is a kind of owner of an institution so I definitely encourage people to create more business-oriented like media type companies and I also think we probably are gonna have to build our own platforms too to do that kind of thing so also any like programmers out there and people who have that kind of talent are gonna be very much needed for that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, we’ve been making a little bit of money on DLive and I’m, you know, trying to figure out how we’re gonna reinvest that back in. But I 100% encourage people who are interested in ya creating like a company for that kind of thing envisioning something like that III had an idea for kind of a kind of like an Amazon like you site for our folk who, you know, it kind of you could get your music there you could get movies there and that kind of thing we definitely need to figure out how we’re gonna monetize that, because another one of the elements of what I’m doing with the White our collective I kind of want to function a little bit as a representative slash kind of a union for artists, because it’s so easy for artists to not get paid and a lot of people just expect all of this stuff for free now, you know, they’re like oh well I’ll just download that song oh we’ll all just download, or just watch it on YouTube, or BitChute and also films they’ll just download them, you know whatever and that’s a big problem for us that people are kind of conditioned into that mindset, because it’s not free for us to make and we’re gonna have to make money if we want to compete with Hollywood if we want to compete with the music industry and we’re gonna need money for projects for the fine arts and, you know, those things are often funded by tax dollars and things so it’s like we’re probably not getting tax dollars anytime soon so where that money’s gonna we’re gonna have to come up with that money somewhere so we need to get clever about how we’re gonna do that and I think to like I don’t expect we’re gonna be having any big daddy, you know, people philanthropist throwing their money at us anytime soon and, or at the very least. I don’t think we should wait around for that I think that’s something I’ve seen for a while but people like, you know what we need just that billionaire who’s gonna give us a bunch of money and.z I don’t think that it hasn’t happened yet I’ve talked to people who, you know, told me hey I’m talking to somebody who might, you know, be interested in what you guys are doing none of that ever came to fruition I think it’s a lot more likely that we’re gonna have to get clever with crowdfunding and people are just gonna have to kind of put there’s a like you said earlier like a lot of people are like well how do I help, you know, doing stuff and volunteering for things. And if someone actually throws out just like what you were saying with that website and the transcriptions and that kind of stuff definitely putting forward your actual Labour putting your shoulder into it and your time and your energy that is a big help also just promoting stuff is a big help and also investing in it, you know, vote with your dollars, so to speak, and actually buy stuff like we got a store we got a White our collective store we got music books magazines shirts, you know, we’re gonna start doing more merchandise I think people like physical objects in this very detached alienated world so we’re gonna probably start doing some more stuff like that, but it is definitely important that we get very serious about how we’re gonna fund these things, because I’m also like I’m already yet I have to work a full-time job to live I’m already at full-time capacity, or I mean, I’m at capacity of what I can do and I often takes me a week, or two to respond to people, you know, that I kind of lose a little bit of that momentum and people’s excitement of getting in contact me with which I hate. But I just I only have so much time so until we figure out how to formalize and professionalize and monetize, you know, we’re going to continue to struggle so we have to get that figured out.

 

Unwashed: And using the word serious there we have to get serious is really important, because I mean, it’s a big [90:01] problem over on this side is that people ask specious of anyone that asks for money, or even accept money there’s all this charge of grift chiming going on I mean, it’s worth reminding people that, at the end of the day, we’re up against the central banking system the guys that own and print all of the money so it’s a ridiculous thing to say people say to people they shouldn’t be asking for money, but also on top of that if you look at the Left take someone like Amanda Palmer who was a sort of front-runner of crowd funding they get full support there no one Chuck’s anyone down for crowdfunding their own projects no one’s biting at each other’s ankles for this stuff even though they’re the Communists so the lefties like they know how to support each other in our and that’s why they’re there absolutely trouncing the culture war obviously they’ve got the institutional power as well. But there’s just none of this mistrust and sniping and it’s so ridiculous to me when, you know, we don’t own the money that’s the other side.

 

Simon: On the subject of money we’ve got a second superchat the wonderful Penguins in the diorama sends 25 US dollars and says:

 

“Number two!”

 

So that’s the second one thanks very much I want to go back to a point of contention that you and I have you mention it there, the word counterculture you and I disagree on this counterculture means against culture and I’m pretty convinced that back in the 60s the whole counter it mean it’s all disheveled people very much like those that they all look like the merely viral guys they had that kind of aesthetic back in the 60s and it’s not alternative culture it’s against culture and another point you made in one of our Telegram groups was Mick Jones, (((tiny hat))) Mike Jones could he have been responsible for some of the leftist message within that within the clash within the.z And if you look into punk both in Britain in the UK you look back at lots of the count country culture groups of the sixties and it all was very cool people like Lou Reed there’s a lot of tiny hat influence there and I kind of wonder if it wasn’t deliberately subversive which is its difficult to find a better word, because it’s become cool. But I think we need to divorce ourselves from it.

 

Horus: Did he I think so I know Mick Jones definitely.

 

Simon: Did he?

 

Horus: I think so.

 

Simon: I know Mike Jones definitely did and lost lots of the others I’m sure I reckon Malcolm McLaren was a tiny hat as well and horus: McLaren was McLaren has partial jewish ancestry yeah.

 

Unwashed: The that I mean, the Mick Jones one I only brought it up to you, because people keep tracking that one at me I’m fairly positive about the clash and they go well, you know, about Mick Jones.

 

Simon: I’m a big fan.

 

Unwashed: Yeah I mean, as far as I’m concerned this doesn’t affect anything. But then you look at him penning White riot and you just think okay let’s think about this for a second the one I’ve had to hire earth about this the one that really made me meet sit up and go oh god was this record label called Fat Wreck chords which is run by Fat Mike of NOFX who is of the Levantine tribe and it’s very interesting, because I was super into this label in my teens and they were aggressively anti-war very, very much against the invasion of Iraq and all of that stuff but very anti-racist i.e., anti-White. And when you just pick apart the ideology and what records are being released it’s like okay this was supposed to be edgy and counterculture and that ultimately it’s pushing all the same stuff ultimately it’s pushing less White people. And that was run by some Hebrew folks. So that was quite something to notice and that’s why I was sort of chucking out the thing about the clash with regards the counterculture thing though I do think the mainstream culture is, you know, horribly degenerate and multicultural and everything that.

 

Simon: It is now but it wasn’t back up just watch this shit this shadows documentary remember it wasn’t back in those days.

 

Unwashed: Hmm no I just mean I thought that the phrase counterculture means as he said against culture but the culture that we have now is everything that we want to push against I mean, it’s not our culture that’s what we’re actually fighting for our culture.

 

Simon: It’s bullshit.

 

Unwashed: What’s being supplied to us.

 

Simon: Yes I think so [95:01]

 

Unwashed: I’ll certainly give you that and.z But I think what we are doing is its like I still consider it kicking against that so I call it counter cultural but you’re saying it’s not even culture so how can you counter it which is a pretty good argument.

 

Jeff: That’s an interesting discussion for sure I’ve thought about that as well I mean, when I think counter culture I think Woodstock that’s like one of the first thing that comes to my mind is something like that and I do think we have to be careful and we’re having a lot of these kind of discussions in within the White Art Collective, of course, about, you know, kind of the language we use and how we frame things, because we have to try to shift the paradigm so I think those instances where well not just kind of shift it we need to have a massive shift and help facilitate that so I think that in some ways we can kind of like take terms back and redefine them and then other things, you know, maybe we should kind of stay away from counterculture to me kind of I kind of think of the term all right I was never a fan of that term I know that was a more American thing, but it did definitely went across the pond as well to some extent and it I was always thinking like what other kind of concepts are I’ve ever been like considered alternative, or kind of been labeled that way and one of them was like alternative lifestyle of the gays, you know, like that that was one thing and now it’s a big no-no to say it that way now it’s just completely accepted in mainstream and the other thing was alternative music and, of course, that also became popular in mainstream and then it lost the alternative people still some radio stations still say alternative and like what is that that what does that mean that’s been mainstream for like over twenty years but uh I think it is interesting to think about those things and consider it personally I wouldn’t use the term counterculture just, because yeah it does it does have a little bit of the leftist taint on it.

 

Simon: One of the things that we’re talking about in this stream that Nick and I did with semia go there a couple of weeks ago I can’t remember how semi ago actually phrased it but we ought to be out be creating what was it Nick we ought to be creating art that produces the kind of people we wants isn’t once want in our society was that was that his point?

 

Unwashed: It was pretty down closer yeah we should be creating art that produces the type of people that we want in society. I think he had it down to a snappy.

 

Simon: Yeah he does he very he’s very snappy isn’t he’s got everything off pat.

 

Unwashed: Yeah.

 

Simon: And this kind of lettuce and he was talking about flamenco and traditional music and I kind of had a road to Damascus moment throughout their stream I’ll throw out there again but and it comes back to my counterculture point that since the fifties the whole promotion of teenage rebellion it kind of overtook rock and roll and that was essentially of subversive whereas if you look at and I think this forms part of our movement I think we need to forget the teenage rebellion music. I don’t think it’s going to come back I think the industry has taken it over even though the industry introduces the industry now controls it and he was talking in the context of flamenco and it got got me thinking about much more incorporating young people into a multi-generational art community and encouraging young people to go through an apprenticeship and perhaps going through initiation right that that gives them the right as in flamenco to form part of the musical art whatever community and I think teen music is probably a thing of the past I know I’m coming out on a limb there, but part of the ethos of our movement is bringing the generations back together what better way to do it with is than with, in art and music.

 

Unwashed: I thought there were great conclusions from that discussion considering we had no idea where we were going and actually I’ve sat on those sort of conclusions from the end of that one since we chatted about it. And I think that you’re right that’s the way that we rebel is by reintroducing multi-generational sort of contact and then teaching like a father teaching this on how to play an instrument because, as you say, all of our subcultures all of our counterculture has been based on the opposite of that [100:00] it’s been based on rejecting your father and not learning from them so hearing Sammy agog talk about flamenco was fascinating, because it’s like yes that’s exactly what we want and yeah this teenage thing has got so out of control I’m sure you guys watched the debacle between Harry and those two the very nearly viral guys like they’re still teenagers and they’re nearly 40 and that’s what we need to reject I think.

 

Jeff: Yeah, I think I’ve thought a lot about the multi-generational element of that and how it relates to art and culture and I think you’re very much onto something there as far as there’s always been this appeal to the trends always following the teenage perspective and what kids think is cool, so to speak, and I personally think cool is like this Judeo African largely corporate-controlled concept where you have people jumping from one foot to the other following these fads really mostly for the purposes of just making money and maximizing it and then once that fad isn’t cool anymore then they move on to the next thing and everybody forgets about that last thing and then they come around in a cycle you’ll get made fun of for, you know, wearing a certain type of clothing, or whatever. But then it becomes cool again oh that whole thing is totally absurd to me and I think we have to break out of that mentality and I do see the right-wing does the dissident Right kind of falls into that somewhat I called it right-wing hipsterism too where you kind of create this very, very niche subculture out of a desire to want to belong so you create all this cryptic language and this aesthetic and people dress a certain way and people have certain types of haircuts and but and then they get comfortable being in that little segmented community, because that’s a large part of what they were seeking but what we need to do is appeal to a broader group of people and not just not just young men who are frustrated in angsty, you know, and that’s so that’s something I’ve thought a lot about we try to have a really good balance of masculine and feminine energy that’s a lot of what I think about when I’m curating and I also think about, you know, some stuff that is mostly overwhelmingly being family-friendly not in a ham-fisted hallmark kind of way but just to where things are, you know, there’s more of a value of purity and innocence you don’t, you know, to kind of remove that cynicism and nihilism and obviously, you know, kind of anything that’s too much an adult subject for children, of course, there’s a time and a place for that. But I think a lot of what’s happened definitely to American society and it seems like the West in general just this kind of business big corporations this hyper monopoly leading everything and everyone thinks in marketing terms so they’re constantly trying to break down groups of people into their segments as consumers it’s like let’s break down here’s let’s market this at teen kids so they’re gonna live in their own world and culture by itself over here listening to this and they’re gonna have a hard time relating to their parents who are they’re having this marketed at them they listen to this kind of music they watch these kind of shows and read these magazines and you see this huge gap where we’re having people having a really hard time relating to each other, you know, men and women can’t maintain the relationships and parents and kids don’t understand each other, you know, there was a long time I felt a huge gap between my parents like they lived a completely different in a completely different world than I did, you know. And. This is a really modern thing the world is not supposed to change this fast but it is so we have to figure out how to adapt to that and.z I don’t think that’s even just, you know, communist, or Marxist, or whatever it’s also just what the modern world there’s just an explosion of technology and things that’s changed the way we live and think so fast that we’re still kind of our heads are still spending. But yeah, just to that point is just we I think we really have to be mindful of exactly what Simon was saying there is that we need to intentionally while still making great art and culture we need to try to do things that bring people back together multi-generationally men and women, etc., in a healthy positive way families and to one more point on that I actually wrote a booklet called how to organize a traditional dance which is over on White date net it’s also on Amazon if you want a physical copy, or you can get a digital, but it’s also on White people’s press but so the idea there is like, you know, we actually speaking of the culture and things I kind of line out like, you know, here’s what the things you need to think about organizing an event like this you gotta [105:01] have you gotta have good music you got to know what the Dancing’s gonna be someone’s got to know how to do the dance, you know, it’s seemingly kind of obvious things but trying to give the people the tools to create something like that so that you can bring people back together and one of the elements of that is making sure that it’s multi-generational friendly.

 

Simon: Okay and one more another superchat from the lovely Lucy Brown who sends ten US dollars you’re your good friend Lucy brown and collaborator on viol fantastic work there Lucy:

 

“If someone has 50,000 subscribers and each subscriber paid one pound a month they’d have freedom to create and make a living. Thoughts?”

 

That would be heaven it was my immediate response anybody else.

 

Unwashed: It does look a little bit ridiculous when you look at the numbers that we’re chucking in, because like I’m getting used to howdy live works and I’m getting great contributions but it’s from like a handful of people. And I think it’s a really important point that one pound a month and then a whole bunch of us could not have to worry about working ever again!

 

Simon: I mean, the two contributions so far on super chance The Thin Red Line and in a diorama there’s various other. But I have what six, seven, eight, nine possibly regular contributors, you know, I know it’s free people are happy to listen but, you know, a couple of dollars every now and again. I think all of us put in hours and hours of effort into this what you see on these streams you don’t know how much work goes in and in the background it’s continual yeah we need more help.

 

Horus: But money as well right. But if you do like kick in a little contribution you’re gonna get more of what you enjoy, you know, the money will generally go to war as your village up to you’re donating to them if you donate to the things that you value you’re gonna generally increase the Malby that’s produced and I hope, you know, the quality of this helmet you’re gonna get more of it. I mean, if I could work full-time like I know that this certain core of people you love my videos like, you know, every time I release anyone immediately they’re like oh wait what’s this which is brilliant in and of itself like — it’s really one who feels like that if you contribute if you quit here and there I’ll do more and you love that feeling even more often I don’t really want to be on record saying like give us money but like I do agree with the general idea that like it’s a good right there it helps the movement, you know, just, you know, we’re moving with a great shortage of cash.

 

Unwashed: Well there’s two elements to what you say in there one was like I remember the week when you got your first donation, because I think I got mine a similar time and we were both on this stream together and we were both absolutely buzzing and it’s not enough money to like put you on easy street it doesn’t mean your money worries are out the window it literally just gives you that boost from someone who’s what I’m doing.

 

Horus: Does someone someone message me asking me how can I donate, you know, well if you insist, you know, and then yeah I felt what I heard someone actually wants someone telling me make more like this what you’re doing is good make more of it and that’s good that’s very encouraging.

 

Unwashed: And vote we all know that a vote is a total waste of time and you have to vote with your with your dollar so a percentage of any nationalist income should probably be going to nationalism right if you’re not doing anything else.

 

Jeff: A tithe, if you will, know it just kidding no but like yeah this goes to what we were saying earlier and I totally agreed that the thing is and this isn’t anybody’s fault but just in the Internet age everyone’s had the ability to go out and create their own show everybody can basically be their own TV station, you know, on their YouTube channel and it’s awesome but it’s also, you know, that gets everyone kind of competing to the bottom in a way for how willing, they are how much they’re were willing to give away for free I think we content creators are going to have to kind of form a collective interest here that we can’t just hand it all away for free forever if we want this to get off the ground we’re going to have to monetize and I think at some point we’ll probably I see people have some good models, you know, redeye says I think an effective model towards like this part is out here this powered is behind this and maybe at some point we might even get in May this is probably not gonna be popular but we might have to get a little bit more hard about it, than that and be like look if you want this [110:00] content you got to pay for it you can’t tell me that most people who watch this stuff couldn’t pay five to ten dollars a month E, or even if it was less than that two, or three bucks a month you telling me that you couldn’t sacrifice, or that, or sacrifice something you bought at the store, or whatever to support this, because that little bit if you had those 50,000 people giving just a little bit it would be massive and the other part of that, is that I also the donation model is just too inconsistent to build institutions off of we’ve been getting a decent amount of little, you know, again like Nick said it’s not like I’m over here like a rolling like Scrooge McDuck in money and coins, or whatever not even close but it’s like okay we had no budget now we have a little bit of a budget that’s something that’s, you know, it’s going in the right direction clearly more people are getting more comfortable with the idea maybe it’s the structure of DLive. But I don’t want to get dependent on that either, because we’ve already had a kind of a phantom copyright strike that I think was probably a targeted thing over there so it was just a six hour time out but we can’t depend on these platforms owned by other people we need to figure that out fundamentally for ourselves from the ground up and build our own structures and infrastructure and the only way to do that is if we get consistent funding so we’ll have to get off of just donation based funding if we really want to move forward.

 

Unwashed: You make a really important point about the about the sort of rush to the bottom there, because that destroyed my old industry when I started DJing a set of technics and a mixer and that set me back about grand and then within two, or three years you could get a controller for one hundred and fifty quid and literally anyone could do it and the wages just tanked, because everyone was going oh well you don’t need to pay me I’ll just do it and this goes for music across the board it’s not really it’s not a problem that’s unique to us as right-wing musicians but art across the board is completely devalued. So yeah, it’s just busting into people’s heads the idea yeah you can’t get something for nothing I’m sure the four of us are all in the same boat where it’s like yeah this took man hours to do and we with people looking at it saying it should be free there’s no leg to stand on there.

 

Horus: I would say to those who are principally opposed to donations and stuff who think it’s corrupting whether whoever I’ve said this once before but make your case explicit like right out your case and send it and, you know, publicize it to everyone and say what is it that you dread, or your pose, or you find disgusting about people being funded, because that will help us, you know, but maybe there’s some sense in there, you know, like there are some dumbasses you just well are they some people’s just see anything that involves money is jewish, or like, or they just see it as light as soon as you start learning money you’ll become corrupt, or you will start only serving those who donate yourself but can someone just make that cake, because then I’ll begin to understand, you know what’s the sensible side of that opposition what’s the, because it might be something we can learn from it as well, you know, because there will be there will be ways of funding they probably do spoil a movement, you know. But if we just suddenly it’s like Haim Saban, or someone, or like George Soros just suddenly came in and say apart from, you know, we go over a suspicion of it like why is he suddenly funding us it probably would be to ruin us and that that there can be corrupting influences of money. But I would just say, you know, I think we all agree that some great degree of funding is this well not everyone but we here, you know, we fallen low people do agree that some greater degree of funding is needed okay.

 

Simon: I’m gonna get in here before Jeff, or anybody else does, because I don’t want this tree to finish on shilling just as a point of principle and we’re, you know, we got six minutes to go I’m sorry Jeff if you had something to say on that. But. I mean, let’s move it back to, because it essentially we are activists and we do this, or I certainly do this out of love and, because I think it’s important is we’re making important contributions so on that note what are the immediate aims of objectives of the White Art Collective first Jeff and Vile Media second.

 

Jeff: Well our goals in the near term, or to continue to bring artists together so that they can collaborate so that they have a community of like-minded people and so that they can feed off of that creative energy and it inspires people who either were creating before and we’re never able to find a home, or perhaps people who never have really created and have always maybe had a creative penchant but never did it [115:02], because they were just they didn’t see the incentive they’re like yeah no one wants to hear what I have to say, you know, they sense that so we want to keep doing that and we want to keep trying to professionalize what we’re doing and kind of formalize it and that’s kind of a tricky situation to do that and it’s kind of we’re doing it very organically I think we’re doing it in the right way the same way that we would create a piece of art, you know, we’re seeing what works and I listen to people especially I talked to the core whack pack as we call it every day we’re talking about stuff we’re talking about our what our plans are for the future we’re working on quite a few shows that we’re doing we’ve got one we’re really excited about called our culture we had chimeras on there recently which was really a big gift for us and he had a lot of fascinating things to talk about so one of our goals is where we’re doing exactly this to what we’re doing on this show is that we’re trying to build a bridge out into the community and to across the pond across the euro sphere across different factions of thought also from the cultural side to the political side and eventually I hope we’ll build a bridge to like a more economic wing where people are more focused on, you know how do we make ourselves independent financially, you know, not that no more shilling. But yeah, just, you know, these are all important areas that I think we need to think about and yeah we’re gonna keep doing big projects like I said we’re gonna do the spooky short film contest and one of these days we’re going to do a whack fest we’re going to have a real in real life big festival and we’re gonna invite all of our friends and allies from all around the world to come and join us and we’re gonna have live music and we’re gonna have people’s oral poetry and paintings and films and it’s gonna be awesome so that’s a long-term goal I wanted to maybe do it this year in a small version but we, you know, this whole pandemic thing kind of put a kibosh on that. But yeah, we’re just going to keep our shoulder to the plow keep doing what we’re doing. And if anybody is interested in getting in contact any artists, or allies, or just any comments in general contact that White our collective comm and I’m on Twitter Gab our DLive channels where we stream and also our replays around BitChute thank you guys for having me so much I appreciate it’s great to finally get to speak with all of you it’s been a pleasure.

 

Simon: Fantastic before we move on to Nick I just want we’ve got a few more superchats. So let’s get them done penguins in a diorama another $25 thank you very, very much. And he says:

 

“Entropy works. Drinks all round.”

 

Picking gas 1972, three US dollars:

 

“Contribution with love from the wilderness.”

 

Thank you very much mate.

 

Aldous Asghar 5gb pounds:

 

“It seems to me that large amounts of parents seem to stop passing on the culture in a meaningful way what can we do to reverse this at least is true for me and I’m 29.”

 

Well I think we’ve discussed this already what I mean, we’re working at it I think we need to restructure the way we look at art and personally here on the right we need to think more intergenerationally and to close off Nick anything any round rounding off comments and summarizing comments.

 

Unwashed: That’s been a very enjoyable stream I think that there needs to be more of this more focus on this cultural side I think it needs a real real kick up the ass and vile is really just a way of venting frustration like I know Horus and Geoff’s focused on we need to return to sort of loveliness I’m really fueled by anger above all else so if there’s something that’s seriously pissed you off about our modern world then get the rage on the page and send it through to our contact form at file media don’t code it UK quickly with regards to lockdown like I do think if this hadn’t happened then we’d be well on the way to having events and doing stuff I don’t know that I’d be throwing gigs by this point but we’d Elise be in the pub and it did its such a shame it feels like it’s such a roadblock but we’ve all had to deal with here. But I think when it if it finally gets loosened then we’re gonna be so raring to go. So I’m really excited for when I get to have human contact with people again but this has been wonderful we should do it again.

 

Simon: Quick final thought Horus.

 

Horus: Doing great work and I’m gonna start paying more attention to what [120:00] collective, because I’m not too well-versed yet. So I’m looking forward to listen to the Saturday night show you mentioned Jeff I love vile every week especially on its based on Nathan body which I think was classic well not based on. But I mean, partly inspired well yeah. And if you want another playlist I’ve got one in mind there may be other consent through as an article as well.

 

Unwashed: Do it! Absolutely! Yes all any and all submissions are great, because because, you know, if I run out of submissions and I to write something and that’s an effort.

 

Simon: Okay yeah well thanks everyone for being here many thanks for Jeff Jeff for being here I think it’s been really interesting I think it’s the start of a beautiful friendship there are many other people on the White Hawk collective who I mean, touch with as I said, before the political wings and the cultural wings need to come in to come together we’re all in this together and yeah we need to be communicating with each other and we need to be united. I think this is the start of it is where it’s not the start of it but. This is a another step along the path and we’re going to do lots more in the future thanks Jeff thanks Nick. Thanks Horus for being here, and thank you to the audience. And we also we’ll see you next week. Have a wonderful night and look after yourselves.

 

Unwashed: Heil wack pack.

 

Jeff: Thanks!

 

[121:26]

 

 

 

END

 

 

============================================

 

See Also

 

Simon Harris – My Speech to the Patriotic Alternative Conference – Mar 16, 2020 — Transcript

 

Simon Harris – EF 21 – Keeping A Political Project On Point with Dangerfield – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

 

 

Simon Harris – My Speech to the Patriotic Alternative Conference – Mar 16, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 19 – A Conversation with Nick Griffin – Apr 14, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 21 – Keeping A Political Project On Point with Dangerfield – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 23 – Is Populism and Patriotism Enough? with Paul Rimmer – May 5, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 22 – Gavin Boby on Mosque-busting and the Breakdown of Society – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 25 – The State of the Art with Jeff Winston & Nick Cotton – May 19, 2020 — Transcript

 

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PDF Notes

* Total words = 17,193

* Total images = 2

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Click to download a PDF of this post (x.x MB):

 

Version History

 

 

Version 3: Jun 17, 2020. 15 more minutes (60 – 75 mins) proofed by Dawn. Transcript fully proofed = 35/121 mins.

 

Version 2: May 24, 2020. Added See Also links.

 

Version 1:: May 20, 2020 — Published post. Transcript fully proofed = 20/121 mins.

Simon: Okay. Hello everyone. And welcome to European Freedom livestream number 23! And I’ve called this one “Is Populism and Patriotism Enough”. And we’ve got a really great guest tonight. Veteran activist Paul Rimmer. So we’ve got a really good show ahead of us. But before I introduce Paul, I’m gonna talk to my mate it’s Horus. How’s it going?

 

Horus: Good thanks Simon. Yeah it’s lovely and sunny here, but it’s a cold wind. Yeah I had a nice big satisfying dinner. I’m doing all right. How are you doing?

 

Simon: I’m doing okay. Did you have a Viennetta for pudding?

 

Horus: [laughter] No just a bit of chocolate.

 

Simon: Or it’s just special?

 

Horus: No we had one on Sunday [laughter] actually.

 

Simon: I had strawberries and very, very classic vanilla ice cream. So I’m doing okay really. Okay I have to ask you the eternal question. What’s the state of the video? It’s been about six weeks since the last video mate!

 

Horus: No more. Yeah I recorded another part to it the other day and I’m gonna record another one tomorrow as well. So it’s gonna be six parts. And then I’ve still got to edit a lot of it as well. So I don’t know. Still not ready.

 

Simon: Months and months!

 

Horus: Yeah, sorry. I did a live stream with Haryan Gláeddyv [Silver Sword] on Saturday though. If people wanna watch something on my channel, check out my channel for that.

 

Simon: Okay great! Okay now we’ve got to introduce our fantastic guest, who is Paul Rimmer, who’s a veteran activist. I use this in the broadest sense there, the word, because we’re gonna talk about a bit about his political history. And he and I have been chatting. Well not chatting really kind of interacting mainly through the comments section of my videos for about 6 months, or so. Haven’t we Paul?

 

 

Paul: Yep.

 

Simon: And I’ve heard of you before that from EDL [02:02] activist Johnny Banks, who I’ve been friends with for years. And, in fact, I streamed with him about three years ago. And I should have should sense of a message today’s to say that you were on. He’ll probably be annoyed with me now. But I suppose really. And this is my introduction to you. I think we’re gonna discover over the course of this conversation some differences in our points of view.

 

But I think immediately, or certainly I felt, I was really pleased to see you in the comments, because I’ve heard of you. And I think we’ve kind of hit it off immediately. And I suppose what I want to get out of this conversation is that nationalist, Patriots, we’re all in this together and should be moving more, or less in the Right in the same direction. I don’t know why what you think about that mate?

 

Paul: Absolutely! Yeah, I think unity is the key really. I mean, we’ve all got the same purpose which is to save our nations. But we need to come together to achieve that. If we don’t come together we fight it as small groups and individuals it’s just self effort. It will get nowhere. But if we have purpose but no unity, it will all just be self-indulgence. We’ve got to come together and sort of pool our resources, because we’ve got one heck of a fight going on!

 

Simon: Yeah definitely. Because really we’re in the state of its “make-or-break” isn’t it? We’re fighting for survival in the West here. We’re approaching a very crucial moment in our history.

 

Paul: I think we’re in desperate times to be honest. The scale of immigration, and the collapse of our own demographic sort of reproduction is frightening! I mean, this is going to augment massive changes over the next two decades. And if we don’t wake up we’re just going to be pushed aside! And we’ll be, you know, consigned to the [04:00] rubbish bin of history.

 

Simon: Yeah definitely. I suppose the point, the place I wanted to start with really was how you and I kind of got to know each other. You started commenting on my videos back in October, when the whole thing in Catalonia kicked off.

 

 

And I suppose what we could establish first is the similarities in our positions. I slowly came to the conclusion that’s Catalan nationalism the Catalan independence movement is its false nationalism. It’s globalism, international Socialism, you know, masquerading as nationalism really.

 

Yeah, how do you view for Spain from Liverpool? I’ve heard you talk quite a lot about the Vox party. But how do you view the situation in Catalonia?

 

Paul: It’s a bit like Scotland really. It’s these sort of micro nationalisms. These sort of fracturing nationalisms, which want to attack the established nation-states. And they’ve taken on this, … Being sort of infiltrated by Marxists I would say. Who’ve managed to get themselves at the head of these pseudo nationalist movements and have pulled them dramatically to the Left!

 

So although they seem to be using terms like National Party, or calling for national autonomy they are, in fact, destroying the areas that they’ve taking power over! So it’s quite deceptive really what they’re doing!

 

Simon: Isn’t it interesting that lots of these nationalists, we talk about this quite often, because obviously I’m in Catalonia. But the SNP, Catalonia, Plaid Cymru to a certain extent, Sein Fein in Ireland, as well. And even in Quebec. All these kind of false nationalisms end up selling out to the whole multiculturalism, diversity, [06:01], or what we call the “Globohomo” agenda. Have you got any theories as to why this is? I personally think they’re designed to be this way.

 

Paul: I think they buy into a grievance politics. And they make themselves out as victims, and they develop this false narrative where they’ve been abused throughout history. And they’re still being abused today. And it’s not true! I mean, Scotland was a partner with England to create the British Empire!

 

Catalonia has always been the most prosperous region of Spain, and the most privileged region of Spain! But they seem to want to present themselves as the victims of some big bully. And it’s a fiction. And in order to maintain that fiction they go further and further to the Left. And for me it’s absurdity!

 

But! There’s money in it! This is the thing, these activists these left-wing nationalist activist, they’re getting control of institutions they’re getting control of government organizations, and they’re raking in the money! And there’s a built-in incentive to keep it going. Even though I’m not quite sure what they want, at the end of the day, because do they really want to fracture these very successful nations? I mean, that would be disastrous!

 

Simon: I mean, I don’t know what you think about it, Horus go ahead.

 

Horus: Now you’ve mentioned before Simon the Open Society Foundation got involved in the Catalan struggle as well. Is that right?

 

Simon: Yeah, because Open Society Foundation is very, the whole Soros thing is deeply embedded here. Soros hasn’t got offices in every city, but he’s got offices in Barcelona. The reason why, I mean, I think everybody on the stream knows that I was kind of heavily involved in the independence movement.

 

And I used to have a show on in English radio in Catalonia. And we got head hunted by Catalan national radio to do a show for them. And it would have been, we started [08:02] to move in the highest circles of Catalan left-wing independence politics. And there were Soros types everywhere. There’s a kind of foreign office, kind of Catalan foreign office called Diplocat [The Public Diplomacy Council of Catalonia]. I think three of the people that work there, three out of the seven people that work there also work for Soros. There’s also a think tank called CIDOB, where the people that work there works on government policy. Where the people that work there move between open societies foundations. So they’re completely embedded. Catalonia really is a color revolution, completely!

 

Horus: And that’s where money becomes a factor for the activists, like Paul said as well, right? I mean, Soros is a sort of a fountain of money isn’t he?

 

Simon: Yeah. And also what’s very unfortunate is the useful idiots. I spent a lot of time with useful idiots, who actually believed in globalism! They actually are firmly committed to the destruction of their own culture, their own country. They want to break away from Spain and fill it with migrants!

 

Okay, before I stop, I’m gonna add one more thing. You’ve probably heard of “Open Arms” the group that saves refugees, or fake refugees. Well they’re based just outside Barcelona.

 

And it’s stop and think about. If it’s got “open” at the start of its name, it’s probably funded by Soros. And this is totally funded by Soros. Open society foundation, Open Arms, Open Democracy is another of his groups. And, you know, they’re, the normal Catalans, who I love, many of whom are my friends have bought into this “let’s flood our land with refugees”! [10:00] a bit like Plaid Cymru [The Party of Wales] wanting to turn Wales into the most accepting part of the world for accepting refugees! Catalonia is very much the same, it’s so depressing.

 

Paul: It just shows how false the whole narrative is. Because there they are to preserve Welsh traditions, and Welsh culture. And they want to flood it with people who have no connection with Welsh culture whatsoever! But Soros has got to be the most sinister character since Joseph Stalin! I mean, Stalin created the Third International and it was a huge network around the globe manipulating the Communist agenda, imposed it on nation’s.

 

And Soros seems to have this vast network, because he’s accumulated so much wealth through the financial system. Incredible amount of wealth! He’s just buying in people and he’s obviously totally committed to this agenda of destroying the Western nations! Destroying Christendom! And it’s very sinister!

 

Horus: I always wonder with us of the Left wing nationalists, like those Plaid, like those in the Catalan movement, and the SNP. Like do they ask themselves, or each other, do they ever try and answer:

 

“Why is it that we’re supported by one of the very richest men in the whole world?”

 

Like how does that fit with left-wing politics? Like do they never, does that not trouble them?

 

Paul: I think it’s all bogus! Beginning to end! It is about enriching and empowering themselves. And they are buying into the agenda that brings that forth.. I don’t think ideologically that actually they are that deep. I mean, they’ll probably switch horses very quickly if anything went wrong. But they seem to have did the media on their side. And the political establishment on their side. And therefore, like the globalist they’ll just into this game of constant manipulation of the public. Constantly deceiving the public!

 

Horus: So for most than the you reckon it’s mostly a case of just getting on a massive gravy train?

 

Horus: Well, I can’t see any other reason for it.

 

[12:02]

 

Simon: I’m gonna have to disagree with you Paul. I mean, certainly Esquerra Republicana [(Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya (Catalan Republican Left) are the SNP of Catalonia)]. But when I was doing this radio show I had the chance to interview most of the bigwigs in the party. And a lot of people that founded the Assamblea Nacional Catalana [pro-independence Catalan National Assembly] which is the kind of the Catalan civil organized organizing group for the independence movements. They’re the ones that organize all the marches. The Esquerra Republicana’s Foreign Minister who I got to know pretty well. I was involved in various groups with him. Interviewed him twice. Went out for drinks with him on a number of occasions. I think, yeah he did African Studies, and he’s just a fan of Africa!

 

You start talking to him, he knows his Catalan history, but he wants to turn it into Africa! The brother of the founder of the ANC, which is the Assemblée Nationale Catalana. He’s got two black African adopted sons, or at least one.

 

And you kind of talk to these people and most of them have really bought, have really bought into it! It’s utterly and completely disturbing! And I think they sincerely, or perhaps not all of them. The right-wing party is a lot more cynical. I think they want the money. But the Lefties actually believe this BS! I found it really, I used to come home from doing this show, and say to the missus,:

 

“You know, I’ve got to stop doing this! I can’t be around these people anymore!”

 

Because the terrible thing is, they thought I was one of them! That I’d spent a year with them completely under cover! So they’d kind of let all this stuff out in private. And yeah I have to disagree with you Paul.

 

[14:01]

 

Paul: Well what I would say Simon with that, is that these people hold this ideology, this globalist ideology, one-world ideology, bringing the whole human race together. They hold it almost like a religion. It’s their sort of, it gives their life meaning. And it’s their purpose in the world to break down all barriers between people. We all live in this supposed harmony, where all that created order is actually cast aside! But! There is a different reality which shows when they send their children to school.

 

And I’ve noticed this with a lot of left-wing people in England. They won’t send their children to school with the ethnic minorities! They insist on sending their children to school, posh English schools! And that shows you their heart really is. But, of course, that doesn’t pay for them. I mean, I know so many left-wing people who have lived in multicultural, multi-ethnic, areas.

 

Once they’ve had children and the children reach school age, they move out these areas into an exclusive sort of White, English, middle-class areas. And that’s, because, that’s where they really feel comfortable. But their earnings come from buying into the multicultural agenda. So I think they’re very schizophrenic in that sense. But the reality is the heart is against multiculturalism, even though they’re making a fortune out of it.

 

Horus: I think it can partly explained as well in terms of class, right? Like obviously we don’t have the same classes that Marx described, and there’s not simply a world, you know, like as leftists, like international leftists, there’s not simply a world working class, a world bourgeoisie, or whatever. But I think there is perhaps, or has been forming for some decades now, like a world cosmopolitan class where, yeah, like anti-racism and anti-nationalism, is probably the binding ideology of like what is a global class that exists across most of the nations of the world. And these people sort of like get assumed into it, assumes upwards, socially into this cosmopolitan class. That just sort of glides across the top of the world like cream, you know, and that’s how I see these people.

 

And obviously is greased very much like lubricated by money that comes from people like Soros, probably Bill Gates and people like that as well. And Bono [chuckling] and the anti-nationalism is the binding ideology of that class. They might not all really believe in it, but they all go along with it, because it serves to bind their class together. And what you said about the schools, Paul, I can imagine, yeah they go to schools that are mostly White. But there will also be the odd, very wealthy, Nigerian, with a very wealthy Indian, or something. They’re like this son of an Indian billionaire. So they will have multiculturalism to that degree, but it’ll be with other wealthy globalist, you know, cosmopolitan types.

 

Paul: I think that’s the higher echelon to the globalism, you know. People who can move around the world who are really at the top of these institutions. But, of course, globalism that has this huge constituency below that. Which goes right down to primary school teachers, and people working in hospitals, and so on.

 

Horus: Yeah.

 

Paul: Especially public sector unions, liberal professionals. And it’s they’re sort of slightly working-class, a lot of them. Just upper working class. And even amongst them you see this discrimination when it comes to their children in terms of education. They don’t want their children educated with the ethnic minorities! Shows what their heart is.

 

Horus: Yeah. And for those of us who remain in the normal in the working-class in the older sense, [18:02] there are some of the most repulsive people, because they’re really close to the action! They know what harm they’re causing, and they still serve this kind of ruling class. Because they hope to be, to sort of ascend up, up towards it, I think.

 

Paul: And their treason is blatant as well! I mean, you know, they’ll fly the Palestinian flag, but they won’t touch the Union Flag! You know, they want to ally with anybody who’s anti-British, or anti-White, or anti-Christian. They despise Christianity, that is another aspect of it.

 

Simon: Did you see all those Liberal Democrats celebrating Ramadan the other day? [chuckling] What a pathetic bunch! I found us this guy on Twitter the other day, had got up early in the morning to have breakfast. And he was gonna spend the rest of the day celebrating Ramadan. But significantly these people hadn’t celebrated St. George’s day, so their kindness is utterly and completely misplaced!

 

Paul: And their sincerity is really bogus as well, because, before they’ll celebrate Ramadan, they’ll go on a gay pride march and celebrate, you know, sexual perversity! So I mean, it doesn’t mean that. They’re just plugging in to people they regard as their constituency. There’s no real loyalty to any of this! It’s just absurd! The Liberal Democrats, I mean, they’re playing this sexual politics game now. You know, their leader, I think that one of the women who sort of campaigned to be leader the Liberal Democrats, she described herself as “pansexual”!

 

Horus: Layla Moron, isn’t it?

 

 

Paul: Yeah [chuckling] ten years ago that would have been totally absurd! But now that that plays well amongst the Liberal Democrats. There totally lost people.

 

[20:00]

 

Horus: I wonder, like if they actually, do they not realize that almost all Muslims will laugh at them for doing this! Right? It’s not something that actually earns the respect, or the affection, of Muslims. I don’t think so at all. It’s bizarre!

 

Simon: But Muslims are noble savages as far as they’re concerned! [loud laughter] Muslims can have no evil thoughts! Please bear in mind it is a religion of peace, isn’t it!

 

Horus: 100%!

 

Paul: Well I think if the Muslims appreciate the key elements of it. It’s false! It’s false adulation of Islam. But it helps them in advancing, you know, the dar al-Islam, their control of this country. So they’ll appreciate that.

 

Horus: I’m sure they welcome it, because, yeah, it increases their power. But I imagine their feelings about it are contemptuous.

 

Paul: We’re all dhimmis* aren’t we to them. So I mean, these are just showing that they’ve accepted this dhimmi status of inferiority and they’ll bow the knee at a Muslim festival.

 

[* Dhimmi refers to specific individuals living in Muslim lands, who were granted special status and safety in Islamic law in return for paying the capital tax.]

 

Horus: We will start seeing them convert as well. That can happen to a lot of White leftists. There’ll be a certain tipping point where a load of them will just convert all at once.

 

Paul: And they put the burqa* on.

 

[* Burqa — The terms niqab and burqa are often conflated; a niqab covers the face while leaving the eyes uncovered, while a burqa covers the entire body from the top of the head to the ground, with only a mesh screen allowing the wearer to see in front of her. The burqa is also not to be confused with the hijab, a garment which covers the hair, neck and all or part of the chest, but not the face. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa]

 

Horus: Yeah, all sorts. Well they’ll probably wear like a rainbow burqa, at first, or something. But they will slide towards just basically worshiping the Saudi version eventually.

 

Paul: Well, what’s got me about Keir Starmer when he first became Labour Party leader, he made a big speech about the Labour Party’s got to win back — who have they got to win back? The White working-class. They lost seats, they lost seats in White working-class areas to Conservatives. Now they’ve got to win back the Hindu vote! The Indian vote! And they sort of see themselves now as the party of the ethnic minorities! It’s almost as if they’ve sort of totally now ditched the working-class, the indigenous people of this country. They don’t really want to touch it. And the Liberal Democrat are the same.

[22:02]

 

Simon: Well, they completely have, haven’t they. And to continue talking about these kind of people, they must live in a world of complete cognitive dissonance, because of all the parts of the kind of progressive stack are mutually inconsistent with each other.

 

 

And I don’t know if you’ve seen the message. There’s a group in our circles called “The Hundred Handers“. A fantastic group who put out leaflets all over the country. And when you read in the papers about “White supremacist hate leaflets” being put in the city, it’s a group of our friends. But one are their leaflets is:

 

“Islam is right about women.”

 

Which  completely shows the cognitive dissonance that they must be feeling.

 

Paul: Islam is right about homosexuality!

 

Simon: [chuckling] It’s exactly the same! But I was reading the other day — I can’t remember the exact quote — but we are kind of living in a “1984” time.

 

 

And it seems to me that what the powers that be are trying to make us do is profess to believe increasingly evident lies! You know, we have to go along with transgenderism, Islam is consistent with homosexualism, this complete mass of weirdness!

 

And it the way to the way to really subjugate people is to make them make them lie to themselves. They have to go along with it and they have to say:

“Yeah transgenders really exist,”

 

And they have to pay lip service to that. And it’s even more humiliating if you actually start to bleep this stuff out. I mean, this is one of your big points, isn’t it Paul? I know that you’re Christian. I’m a kind of a borderline Christian but I feel that’s part of what us in the on the nationalistic, patriotic end of politics are, we’re people that are true to ourselves. I refuse to lie about this stuff! Two and two make four! Nobody on earth is gonna get me to tell you that they make five!

 

Paul: Yeah I mean, you know, we are authentic people. We speak the truth from the heart, simple truths, you know, about the nature of the world. But there is a simple truth about the Left, as well as the Liberals. Their agenda is not bringing this coalition together. Their agenda is hatred for us! It’s a hatred for our traditional societies, our traditional faith, a home, Britain, and what we’ve done for the world.

 

They’re actually united in this desire to destroy us! That’s what brings the Muslims, homosexuals, the feminists, the Marxists, all together in this coalition. I mean, they stay as a coalition, as long as we’re there to be attacked, you know. But the White male, the heterosexual White male from Christendom, that’s the hate figure they want to destroy. And that’s why they’re so sinister, so disturbing.

 

Horus: This is why I’d say tactically, it makes so much sense for us to encourage them to express that hatred as clearly and acutely as possible, because that gives us the best chance of our people awakening to this anti-White anti-male front that exists.

 

Paul: You see it best in the Trump derangement syndrome, where they absolutely hate Trump, because he’s a male, he’s White, he’s successful, he’s got a beautiful wife! They hate everything about him!

 

Horus: It’s amazing, because he’s barely done anything! Like he hasn’t done things anywhere near as bad as George White Bush. For the Left there’s so much more reasons to hate George White. He was responsible for, you know, huge number of deaths and misery and destruction. And Trump and done anything like that. But they hate Trump ten times more!

 

[26:15]

 

Paul: Because Trump mobilized the ordinary American patriots, the working-class, the White working-class. He brought them back into the political arena and has made them a political force again. Whether that’ll inspire the next elections is a question. But it really disturbed than that. They thought they destroyed the American patriots under Obama, you know, his eight years as President. They targeted them. They flooded their communities with drugs, they took away their manufacturing jobs. They constantly denigrated them and try to break their spirit! Trump brought them back from the dead! And they really loathe that.

 

Horus: Yeah, the fact that he just made nods towards ethnic identity, or White racial identity. That was what frightened and infuriated them so much, I think.

 

Paul: You see that Michigan sort of protest about the lockdown? In Michigan where the White militia turned up, the state militias with their guns. And they were so cocky and confident! And that’s what really disturbs the Left.

 

Horus: They really are terrified just by the appearance of that. It’s not even them doing anything, it’s just the fact that he exists! And it’s not on its knees. They really infuriates them.

 

Simon: Okay guys let’s move on a little bit with the conversation.

 

I was going to be self-indulgent dodging and talk about Jose Antonio. I’ve got his name in this week, because Paul, we got back in touch with me really commenting on my Jose Antonio primo de Rivera. But we’ll talk a little bit more about that Spain a little bit later.

 

I kind of wanted to do, as we as we kind of getting to know you. And perhaps a lot of the people in the audience don’t know Paul very well. I kind of like to go back a little bit through your history. And obviously I do my research. And you’ll tell me whether this is true, but I found lots of articles about you in the Liverpool Echo. The Liverpool Echo really love you, don’t they Paul.

 

[28:30]

 

Paul: Well I’ve stood for Mayor twice and stood for Police Commissioner. And I’ve stood for other political offices. So I got very well known on Merseyside side and engaged with lot of radio phone-ins. And I didn’t pull back, I really attacked the Left. Let them know what I thought about them. And people responded to that and really like it.

 

Simon: Okay this is, I mean, you can tell me if this is true I’ve got no idea this is what the Liverpool Echo says about you:

 

“As a young man growing up in Liverpool he was a member of the Labour Party and flirted with militant tendency. He later joined the Conservatives, the BNP, and more recently UKIP. And has now landed in the English Democrats and wants to be mayor of his home city.”

 

So perhaps I thought what we could do is we could go back through your political journey. I don’t know if it’s true whether you flirted with militants, or not. But I was a member of the Labour Party, probably around about the same same time as you were more on the Left. And I think it’s a very interesting thing to hear is how people go through their lives and finally reach, or when they reach the kind of, when they finally see the light when it comes to patriotism and nationalism.

 

So let’s go back to when you were a very young man. Were you involved with militants? This would have been cs.

 

[29:55]

 

Paul: Well I mean, my political odyssey started in the 1970s with the National Front. You know, first of all Enoch Powell, and then the National Front. Because in 1976 the National Front swept this nation! Swept the working-class communities, culturally, not politically. But we were all National Front supporters in north Liverpool. And there we were all on board to save this nation. We had an instinctive patriotism, an instinctive love of our people and we realized we were under threat. And in those days the White working-class was powerful. It was the biggest group in society and it could impose itself.

 

 

And it was only Mrs. Thatcher sort of picked up the National Front agenda. Started talking about putting White people at the top of council housing lists! Mrs. Thatcher used that language, “White people”. She started talking about the immigrants were threatening to swamp our cities and had to be stopped. And there so she sort of realized what way it was going into and she bought it. And she siphoned off that agenda and siphoned off the votes. So in 1979 Mrs. Thatcher won a very substantial majority in the general election.

 

And she brought out the Nationality Act. And she put down on immigration very quickly. And she started to stop the political correctness in the state system. And this led to the Toxteth riots [a Liverpool suburb] as a reaction in their sort of ethnic communities. But it’s really bizarre this, but in June 1979 the Conservatives won the European elections in Liverpool. People think Liverpool’s a left-wing city. In 1979 Liverpool backed Margaret Thatcher, believe it, or not. But, it then all went sour very quickly. When the recession hit, monetarism. She allowed Sterling to go too high, unemployment suddenly mushroomed to three million.

 

People were getting very disturbed by her agenda and the whole city just moved dramatically to the Left. And I was carried along with that tide. And I heard people in the militant tendency, preaching their message. And it had a passion in it! And it was a sort of was a rallying call to the people of Liverpool. And I was swept along in that.

 

[32:10]

 

And I read the Communist Manifesto. And I thought this is reality! This is what’s happening now! This is showing us away forward! And I bought into it completely. And then I got involved with militants and got involved with the Trotskyites, and explored Marxism. I mean, I read everything, you know, I devoured it! And I was really committed. I was really militant for about two years, three years.

 

And then I started to question it. I started to question, the people involved in it. Started to question it’s hostility to liberty and to our traditions. And I just became disillusioned with it, you know, to be honest. And, of course, in 1983 Margaret Thatcher won the general election, and the Left, the wind was taken out of its sail. And it was a new dawn in Britain really.

 

And I was a boxer, so I was around sort of military types at University, Cambridge. And I started to associate more with them and with it with their view of the world. And I read Roger Scruton’s book “The Meaning of Conservatism” [published 1980] and it give me this sort of intellectual ideological depth to take on the Left. And I just completely changed sides.

 

But really I was going back, I was reverting to what I believed as a kid, you know, to my instinctive patriotism, way back in 1976. I just reconnected with that. So I regard the whole left-wing period as just an aberration really. It was just part of that time. And a lot of working-class people were caught up in it. And I think a lot of us are shaking it off.

 

Simon: And then you joined, you actually joined the Conservative Party, didn’t you, throughout the Thatcher period?

 

Paul: I never got involved though in activism. And I went to work in the City of London which was a very conservative thing to do. But then I sort of, I mean, politics lost a bit of edge, you know, in the late 80s, early 90s. Things calmed down. Thatcher went didn’t she in 1990. Major come to the fore.

 

But I was very disturbed by the Maastricht Treaty. And I began to realize this was going to be a big issue in the future. I could see the way we were conceding more and more ground to the European Union. And this was impact on our sovereignty. And I thought eventually, it’s gonna impact everything! Including our control of our borders and immigration.

 

[34:33]

 

But don’t forget when John Major lost a general election 1997, immigration into this country was only 50,000 per year! So it was minuscule compared to today. I mean, it’s more than ten times that now. So it wasn’t a very big issue.

 

But I’ve become aware that demographically the West was being left behind by Islam, by India, and Africa. And as the youths were building up in these areas, we were aging, our population was aging. And I saw, I realized there was a danger there. There was a danger that we were actually going to be overwhelmed by the youthful vigor of these other continents. And we had to change direction. And I was really concerned about the level of abortion in Britain. And the fact the families are getting smaller and smaller. But it wasn’t panic stations at that point!

 

But when Blair won the election in 97, you know, like yourself Simon, I’ve been in the Labour party. And I knew what the Labour Party’s agenda was! I knew they were gonna hand over all our sovereignty to the European Union. They were gonna break up the United Kingdom! You were gonna flood the country with immigrants, on a vast scale!

 

And I tried to I try to warm people in 1997. Don’t vote for Blair, he’s a danger! But people were blind! They were so bought in by Blair, they believed in Tony Blair so much in 1997! It disillusioned me about the British people. I thought:

“Can they be manipulated so easily?”

 

Because I knew exactly what Blair and Mandelson were up to! And for me, that was that the day of catastrophe when they took power. And then I went back to nationalism, really, to the National Front in a sense. I went back to the British National Party. Because they were the only party that was speaking the truth on these issues.

 

[36:24]

 

Paul: Well my perspective was from, I went down south you see. So I saw the surge in prosperity in the south. And I knew eventually would actually go up north. When Margaret Thatcher began her attack on the trade unions and the imposition of monetarism, I think it was something like 365 leading economists wrote to the Guardian a letter and said:

 

“This is going to lead to economic catastrophe! It’s gonna destroy the British economy!”

 

But within two years the British economy was growing at 4% per annum. It was the fastest growing economy in Europe. And the investment just poured into this country. Because I was down south the investment initially went there. I saw the redevelopment! I saw factories being set up. I mean, Cambridge itself become a great industrial technological center. I saw a vast wealth. And in London the property prices started to surge. Stock market started to surge. And it was like a Renaissance of Britain. And, of course, Margaret Thatcher was a great figure on the international stage. Ronald Reagan loved her.

 

She began to influence the Communists. They began to listen to her ideas. Privatization, of course, was a big thing, creating efficiency in the public sector. And communism fell. I think Margaret Thatcher was sort of, was very much responsible for the victory in the Cold War. Of course, we also had the Falklands War as well.

 

Now, there was an underlying nationalism in Maggie. I mean, when I listened to her, I began to realize she had a passion about Britain and the British people! She really believed in our history. She really believed we had a mission in the world. And the English-speaking world was a Churchillian view really, and she was linked up with America. And she saw us as a leading light, and it inspired me! Because I’d got used to being in a decline and negativity in Liverpool! I’ve got used to like communist waffle and nonsense and people abusing the public sector. The inefficiency of the public sector, and the sense of national defeatism. You know, the hostility to Britain imposing itself on the world. And I’d grown tired of that.

 

And I think Thatcher was very inspirational! And I think I still think was a great tragedy that she was pulled down in 1990, because I think we would have left the European Union a lot earlier, to be honest.

 

[40:16]

 

Simon: Okay, that might be true, but my question is really what did Thatcher conserve? My big gripe, you know, the part of Nottingham where my family are traditionally from. My grandad —once again, everyone in the stream knows this — my granddad was a trade union leader, drove the buses, Transport and General Workers Union. The family had lived in my great, great, great, great — plenty of greats — was the first blacksmith on the river Leen before Radford even existed.

 

We were kind of an established family in Radford. And Radford had the Raleigh factory, the Players factory, and the pit. It was one of those traditional working-class communities where you could, I mean, I’m talking to up to the age of 10, 11, before we moved to the northwest, where everybody was auntie this, or uncle that, or where I could go into any house for an orange juice.

 

And really the miners strike was a massive turning point! It was becoming degraded already by the time I gone back to university. Because I actually had digs in the part of town where my family was from. So I was really going back to my roots. But really, the miners strike destroyed the Midlands and the north. I’ve got no idea, I haven’t been back to Liverpool for a long time.

 

But I can never really forgive Thatcher for that. And to be perfectly honest, you can talk to me about GDP and the economy all you like, but really what I want to say, I don’t care whether the economy’s booming, because if that money’s going to the wealthy, well it’s going into their pockets.

 

What I care about is the well-being, and now not in a kind of socialist way. In very much a kind of Jose Antonio primo de Rivera way! You’ve got to you have to look after the people. And I think Thatcher didn’t do this. Certainly not down our way.

 

[42:22]

 

Paul: I was down south and I was being told how desperate Liverpool was. And, you know, our poor the city had become, how shabby and sort of demoralized. I remember going back up north for me sort of break at the end of University. And the street where I lived, there was BMWs there. There was a Jaguar there. There was all sorts of flashy cars we had never seen before.

 

I mean, I just come from a working-class community and people were buying the council houses and renovating the council houses. People would actually become an entrepreneurial. They were starting their own companies! This is the true spirit of Britain! We’re not a nation that that buys into communism. We’re a nation that buys into enterprise, and actually, you know, making things happen, we’re a creative people. And I thought that was very much the sort of socialist propaganda that was being sold to us.

 

But there’s another factor as well, because I’m not an economic determinist. I don’t think people are shaped by the economy. I think people are shaped by cultural factors. And what really led to the collapse of the extended family, and the contraction in the number of children people had, and so on, was a turning away from Christianity.

 

I mean, it was the Labour Party in 1967 that brought abortion into this country. It was the Labour Party that legalized homosexuality! It was the Labour Party that made divorce easy! It was the Labour Party that undermined the social fabric of working-class communities.

 

And Margaret Thatcher understood this, because she always wanted to win back the inner cities and to revive them in a true British mode. But it proved very difficult, because the Labour Party had a grip on them. It’s only this recent election now, 2019, that the Labour Party’s finally lost it’s grip on the White working class in this country. And it was long overdue!

 

[44:12]

 

Simon: Sorry, I just switched my mic on. Horus, you’re a great, … I kind of accept your points Paul, but, you know, we have to have a productive conversation here. Horus, you’re a great critic of the Conservative Party, aren’t you? Have you got anything, any come back on Paul for this?

 

Horus: Yeah, probably that applies least to Thatcher though. I think she is one Tory who got a few things right.

 

Simon: That’s, because you’re a monetarist, aren’t you!

 

Horus: I’m not a monetarist. I’m against monetarism! Monetarism is bollocks. No, I’m an Austrian, … Yeah, she likes Hayek. And he was the worst of the Austrian school as well. But I like other Austrian school economists.

 

But with the miner’s strike, that was more, or less forced upon her. She prepared for it well, or you could say cynically. But that was caused, in my opinion, by NUM, or by the revolutionary leadership of the NUM, and by Scargill in particular. He was a revolutionary socialist! And he saw an opportunity, he believed wrongly, to bring her down and perhaps to bring down democracy, really. And to impose a “workers democracy”, you know, communist rule, basically.

 

It wouldn’t have been the same as the Soviet Union. But that was his aim. And. I don’t think she was closing, her government was closing mines any faster than Callahan and Wilson’s government had. As far as I could see, from what data I’ve seen, it might be manipulated. But from what I’ve seen, it was a pretty steady rate of closure going through the 70s, into the 80s. But whenever the Tories get into power — I saw this for the first time in my own life in 2007, very, very clearly — Labor, sorry the Left, just become one mass that swings into action! And they all know, they’re all ready, they all know that their program is to just bring down the Tories in any way they can.

 

[46:30]

 

And in the eighties, the Tories triggered a recession in the start of the eighties. So I mean, they sort of gave the Left an opportunity to attack them there. Didn’t quite bring her down, it was by a hair’s breadth that she hung on. But she did. Then the Falklands, they hoped, they supported the Argentine dictatorship, more, or less, hoping that would bring her down. And that didn’t go very well for them.

 

And then, they saw an opportunity with Scargill to try and bring her down. And yes, she sort of provoked the strike in some ways, by preparing for it. But that’s, because he was already pushing for it. And Scargill, he tried two, or three times, before he called the strike to get the NUM to vote for it. And they wouldn’t! The ordinary members didn’t want the strike. And eventually, after I think two, or three attempts, he just called a strike anyway, with minority support within his own Union. And the strike failed, partly, because several regions, I think, … Nottinghamshire might been one of them? Or Derbyshire?

 

Simon: Yeah. The Notts men, … Everybody hates Cargill! I mean, this is something I’ve argued about most of my life. I’m playing devil’s advocate with you a little bit Paul.

 

Paul: Yeah

 

Simon: But Scargill was a complete disaster. You see what you have to realize is that Notts and Yorkshire — I’m from, I’m Nottinghamshire born and bred, and pits are the best! Our coal seam is the best, that’s it! And what Scargill did, without consulting the Notts men he sent flying pickets down, and just put them outside the pit.

 

[48:20]

 

Paul: I remember it well.

 

Horus: Terroristic, right? Terroristic action!

 

Simon: And so the Notts men who tended to be more conservative and certainly didn’t like a Yorkshireman leading them, anyway. This just provoked them, not to come out. So basically Scargill scuppered it from the start off.

 

Horus: Attacking his own men?

 

Simon: Yeah. Completely!

 

Horus: Attacking his own class?

 

Simon: A completely ridiculous tactic!

 

Paul: I actually think though that there’s a lot of mythologizing about the coal industry. Digging for coal is a very primitive activity! It’s what people basically do in the Third World, now. I mean, if you can create a Technology Park, it would generate more wealth than any coal mines. I mean, the price of coal was collapsing in the 1980s, that’s why they didn’t need the pits. They could bring it in from Australia at 7 pound a ton! Seven pound for a ton of coal! I mean, how many tons of coal did you need to buy a BMW car? You want technology! We want a sophisticated productive economy.

 

We don’t want an economy based on primitive industry! So we had to move away from the coal industry. And it’s not a good job to go down and dig coal underground. It’s a very dangerous job, it’s very unpleasant. But to be honest. I don’t think it’s a job that we should be doing today. You know, I think it’s a very primitive job.

 

So all this mythologizing of the coal industry, I didn’t buy into it. But what was really significant about Thatcher was, she wasn’t Hayekian! She listened to the Austrian School of Economics, but that wasn’t where the heart was.

 

[49:55]

 

I was a Cambridge at the time and I was a bigger fan of Roger Scruton. And Roger Scruton mentor was a guy called Morris Cowling. He was a big friend of Enoch Powell. And they used to have a seminar in Peterhouse College. And Cowling would be there, Powell be there, Roger Scruton would turn up and Margaret Thatcher would turn up. That was it, she was a Tory nationalist, Margaret Thatcher. But here it was all about Britain.

 

When she died and they had a big funeral for her at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London. I went down to the funeral, and I gave her a speech in a pub afterwards with all the Tories. Where there was Tory MPs there. Michael Howard was there. And I said:

 

“Margaret Thatcher in essence was, she believed in Britain! She believed in the British spirit! She believed in the British people! And she believed that Britain could play a key role in the future of the world. And had a key role to play!”

 

Now a lot of Tories were really lifted by that.

 

But there was a group of Asian conservatives there, Hindus. There was a lot of Hindus now in the Tory Party. And they actually booed me when I said that. They said I was being fascististic, you know, for saying something like that. But that’s the essence of Margaret Thatcher. That she was a patriot. And that’s why really I admired her.

 

Horus: Morris Cowling is a fascinating character. He was quite working-class like her, wasn’t he? I think in origin.

 

Paul: He’s a tough cookie Morris Cowling! Didn’t take fools lightly, I tell you.

 

Horus: Do you remember about Scruton, they were like, sort of lower middle class, or working class, in origin? They weren’t toffs.

 

Paul: Roger Scruton’s father was a trade unionist and a Labour Party supporter.

 

Horus: Hmm. And Jonathan Bowden’s speech on Morris Cowling was really good. Have you heard that?

 

Paul: No. I mean, I was a great friend of Jonathan Bowden. It was just a tragedy when he died, aged 49. That man was a fantastic orator! I attended a lot of meetings where he spoke! We spoke together on many platforms. Real tragedy when he died.

 

[51:48]

 

Horus: Coming across his speeches, I think shortly after he died, maybe in the year after he died, was the first time I ever heard of him. I came across his speeches on YouTube. And that was the biggest red pill of all for me, because I was listening to something on YouTube and then it auto-played without me, you know, I was doing something else on my computer. And it auto-played on to a Bowden speech. And an hour passed and I looked down at the bottom, I was like that was interesting. What channel is this? And it was a BNP channel.

 

And until then in my life I’d never permit myself to click on anything to do with the BNP, right? Because I was just completely indoctrinated against all that. And just wholly believe that that was black magic! You don’t open that book! You know, I did by accident and he won me over, just like that.

 

Paul: I went to a meeting at the Irish National Party in Belfast. These are like it an anti-Sinn Féin Irish nationalists, genuine nationalists. And there was for a lot of lads there from West Belfast, you know, Catholic lads. So I said to them:

 

“So, how could you come here today and you’ve given up on Sinn Féin.”

 

And they said:

 

“We’ve all been listening to Jonathan Bowden on the Internet!”

 

Lol wow this guy I mean, I used to listen to his speeches, and I take a DVD home with the speeches. I’d listen to it 20 times! It was an education. I was amazed! And he’s still under-rated now. He still needs to be promoted more.

 

Horus: You’ve got any speeches that people haven’t seen already? You could publicize them, like people are gagging for more Bowden material. There’s speeches that people rumor about, that seemed not to have been recorded. And people are like:

 

“If we could only get this one!”

 

So if you’ve got any that aren’t already on YouTube.

 

Paul: There’s a guy in Wigan called Dr. Charles Martha, who sort of led the BNP in the northwest of England. Ex Labour guy but a [word unclear], but a great man. And Jonathan Bowden would just turn up at a meeting in a pub in St. Helens, or in Wigan and give one of his speeches, you know! And Charles Martha would actually film it. So he made DVDs of all these speeches. You know, he’s got quite a collection. I think someone needs to connect with them, you know, and release them. Because they are amazing speeches!

 

[54:04]

 

Horus: That would be gold dust! If there’s more you could put out there, that’d be amazing!

 

Paul: . I don’t think there’s been anybody in modern British politics who can touch Jonathan Bowden. For, you know, the way he would open up the cultural nature of conservativism. The way he’d talk about the glory of Britain. And his insight into actual politics, world politics, was unique!

 

Horus: I realized one one step when I realized how brilliant he was when I listened to his speech about Punch and Judy! Which I’ve never, you know, it’s a topic I never cared about whatsoever! And suddenly Punch and Judy’s really interesting! He’s brilliant! Because he I think he used to perform Punch and Judy shows sometimes as well.

 

Paul: [laughter] He was a very eccentric character Jonathan Bowden! You wondered where he came from! He was like a visitor from another planet! [chuckling]

 

Horus: I think many people, …

 

Paul: I think he must have had a super intellect. I think he had a Mensa IQ, because his mine was just a treasury, you know. But tragically, 49 he died!

 

Simon: That kind that kind of brings us on, going through your history really. Because we’ve done the Tory Party, Conservative Party. Then you were a BNP member weren’t you? Obviously this is where you coincided with Jonathan Bowden. What year did you join the BMP?

 

Paul: Well, I had almost given up hope in 2001 after Labour got reelected and the Tories were going nowhere. And suddenly Nick Griffin emerged in Oldham. And had that famous election where he muted his own mouth, you know, he put a thing around his mouth. And then I thought there’s some hope here! That Briton, there’s still some hope.

 

[55:56]

 

And then in 2002, they won some council seats in Burnley. I mean, it’s very hard to win elections in Britain, because they’re all first past the post, of course. And that’s when I joined. I thought, I’ve gotta get involved with this. Because I had boxed at Cambridge and so had Nick, so we had that connection. So I thought, I want to get behind him and make what contribution I can. What a fantastic journey that was! I was in it for 10 years. And the BNP was a tragedy when it collapsed! But for 10 years it was rockin, you know.

 

Simon: And this is the kind of, … I suppose this is really, you mentioned that you are aware of the Islamification of Britain previously. But this is one of the great misnomers isn’t it? That it was the EDL that revealed the grooming gangs and what was happening in the north of England. But, in fact, it was many, perhaps what, 2005, 2006 it was the BNP that were talking about this, even that early on.

 

Paul: Well the truth is, a lot of people were aware of what these Pakistanis were up to, these Pakistani grooming gangs. And they were basically fishing for our kids! You know, driving around in cars and they’re getting to know the young girls, and grooming them, and turning then into heroin addicts and prostitutes! And people would irate about this! But, the police wouldn’t listen to any complaints! The police were totally doing the Labour Party’s bidding! And the media wouldn’t listen to it. And ordinary people couldn’t make an impact on this situation.

 

But the BNP, because they were so well organized and so motivated! And so effective as well! They were a very professional party the BNP. They started to rattle the police and the media. And they started to a real campaign against these grooming gangs, especially in places like Keithley in Burnley. And they started to win council seats in these area. So they had political representatives you could speak out on behalf of these girls who were being groomed.

 

And we got a crescendo going! We got a movement going! And that’s when I saw the anti-democratic nature of the British State. The police came down on us like a ton of bricks! I mean, members of the BNP were beaten up by operatives of the state. People started to have their bank accounts closed, and then the arrests began.

 

[58:12]

 

And the arrested both Nick Griffin and Mark Collett. He was there right at the hub of it. And they went to court in Leeds, I think it was, 2005. And it become a big national case! And that was really when the whole nation became aware of what was going on with these grooming gangs. So yeah, I mean, EDL picked it up. But it was the BNP who led the fight back. The BNP were brilliant mobilizing working-class communities in the north of England, and the Midlands. And in London as well. And winning elections! I mean, they won over a hundred council seats! They won county council seats. And then eventually, of course, they won MEPs. [Member of the European Parliament]

 

But that was a danger then, because the establishment were fully mobilize against us. I mean, with a big organization we had maybe 17, 18 thousand members, official members. We had tens of thousands of non-official members. We would hold up meetings in Liverpool, 150 people would turn up!

 

I mean, I remember speaking at Lee in Lancashire, and there was over two hundred people in this pub listening to the speech. And this was a heartland of the Labour Party. Labor had held this seat since the First World War. And we were mobilizing the people of Lee behind us. But the Labour Party managed to thwart us from winning that seat. But Lee just voted Tory and I think we put down roots there in our campaigns in that decade between 2000, 2010, which have finally come to fruition now.

 

And the BNP, the fact that it collapsed so quickly was a tragedy. Because we used to have red White and blue, we’d have this summer fete, you know, where people come from all over the country. And we did can with the English people! It was the first time since 1976 when the National Front swept this nation, that we saw a nationalist movement sweep this nation! Because when Griffin won a seat in 2009 in the European elections, I can remember people coming to Liverpool town centre to party! Ordinary, working-class people. At last we had a voice, but tragically it collapsed very quickly.

 

[60:17]

 

Horus: Do you attribute the collapse largely to the activities of the state? Or to several different things, or what?

 

Paul: The state turned the screw, but Griffin played the wrong game. Instead of bending slightly, … I mean, when a strong wind comes, a tree must bend, or it will break. He should have bent. He refused to allow ethnic minorities into the party. And he actually went to court to defend that. And he wasn’t gonna win that case!

 

And the British people, I mean, they didn’t want the full board of nationalism. But they were keen on the policies we were offering, and they were keen on a lot of the solutions we were offering. And we had that support! We had we started to touch people’s hearts. It was fantastic to see! I mean, I saw in Liverpool. We got six thousand votes in Liverpool, you know, which had been a Left wing city for a long time.

 

And we would go round with a trailer, a jeep with a trailer behind, with the BNP on, and we’d blast our music, and the people would come out to the houses to buy newspapers off us and stuff. We were really impacting this nation. Well, I think Obama’s victory in 2008, was very much a check on us, because the Americans wanted us killed off as well. And they had the deep state, the British deep state began to work against us. And, as I say, we don’t live in a democratic society.

 

I can remember having pub meetings where there’d be 30, 40, 50 people just turned up to hear a few speeches, have a drink, socialize. The police would raid it! Like we were involved in a criminal activity! They would threaten the landlord, who would eject us from the pub! It was criminal activity by the state! And I began to think, the British state was acting like an East European communist state. It was really scary stuff.

 

[62:11]

 

And that they saw us as a threat. And. I don’t think the time was quite right for us to achieve much more to be honest. We passed the baton on to UKIP. And they got us out of the EU. But we’ve lost a lot of the nationalist sort of ideology, and we need to rekindle a nationalist movement in Britain. It’s desperate now! We really do.

 

Simon: Sorry. Go ahead.

 

Horus: No, go ahead Simon.

 

Simon: Because then you ended up leaving the BNP, didn’t you? And you joined UKIP, was it with UKIP was that the first time you stood for political office?

 

Paul: No. I stood for the English Democrats initially. And I did well in Liverpool. And I had a good campaign and UKIP noticed this. And they approached me and said:

 

“Look, why don’t you stand for us? You can stand there in Liverpool for UKIP. We’ve got a bigger platform than the English Democrats and we will support you.”

 

But then UKIP began to come under pressure for accepting exBNP people. And Farage panicked. You know, the media were threatening to sort of start to denigrate him and accuse him of being a fascist, and so on. He panicked and said:

 

“No we’ve got to get the BNP out the party!”

 

So I was told that I couldn’t stand as mayor for Liverpool for UKIP. So I stood for the English Democrats, instead. And I got 7,000 votes for Police Commissioner, which was quite a decent vote for Liverpool.

 

Simon: So, how long were you with the English Democrats? A lot of the press you get in Liverpool, is from that period, isn’t, I’m guessing?

 

Paul: Well I was arrested. I was arrested twice. And they were big court cases. Once I went into a police station and said:

 

“What’s the flag above the police station? Where’s the Union flag?”

 

He said:

 

“Oh. This is a gay flag!”

 

It was the gay rainbow flag. And I said:

“I don’t think that is right, flying that above a police station!”

 

But they arrested me and charged me with homophobia! And it become a big case! It got national attention! And Eric Pickles* had to make the gay flag an official police flag, because I counter-attacked, and charged the police flying this flag illegally, which they were.

 

[* Pickles was the Chairman of the Conservative Party from 2009 to 2010 and is currently the chairman of Conservative Friends of Israel. He is the United Kingdom Special Envoy for post-Holocaust issues, being appointed in 2015.]

 

[64:20]

 

You need special permission to fly a non-official flag above a police station. They didn’t have it! And had them on the run, the police. So that become a big case in Liverpool. That got me a lot of attention. But I stood for the mayor twice, and I crossed swords with their Joe Anderson, who’s the Liberal mayor in the debates. And I really put him in his place! And I got a lot of a attention.

 

Simon: Horus?

 

Horus: Eric Pickles is, even by Tory standards, an outstandingly contemptible prat! [chuckling] Oh God!

 

I was just I was quite stirred by what you said about the BNP. Like how well things were going for a while. And you said we need now, like something, I don’t know what was the term you used was, but something to spark off that kind of excitement again. Do you feel, …

 

Paul: A nationalist revival.

 

Horus: Yeah. I mean, did you see, …

 

Paul: Well, it’s happening in Europe! I mean, it’s happening in Italy would Salvini, before, you know, the coronavirus episode. And the brothers of Italy. It’s obviously, it’s had its day in France with Marine Le Pen. And then Simon must know about the Vox Party in Spain. Their recent performance has been astonishing in Spanish elections.

 

Simon: Yeah, very much.

 

Paul: I think there’s an appetite there! There’s an appetite there for a patriotic force, you know. But you are going to have to battle against the state!

 

Horus: Yeah.

 

Paul: What is really positive at the moment, is that the Left are totally demoralized! They’ve lost so many elections! They’ve been pushed out of power. And they don’t seem to have the will now to resist us.

 

I think if we moved up a gear. I mean, but I could see what Paul Golding and Britain first, … I mean, Paul Golding is an amazing political activist! He can create big things out to nothing! He have three million followers on Facebook. I mean, he had a campaign in Northern Ireland recently, it’s only exploded out of nowhere! But the state come down on him like a ton of bricks! They persecuted him. This is the problem, the deep state now. They are thwarting democratic activity in Britain. It’s very sinister!

 

[66:35]

 

Horus: Simon didn’t you put in the show notes for tonight’s show something saying like when we’re talking about persecution of say Paul Golding, or Tommy Robinson. We need to generally back each other across the dividing lines of our movements. Was that your words, or were you quoting Paul there?

 

Simon: I can’t remember what I said. When I put these show notes together I kind of cut and paste from lots of places. It’s definitely my sentiment. I think it’s a very important thing. Broadly we need to be supporting people.

 

Horus: I think the powers will be turning against all of us, obviously.

 

 

“Why don’t we talk about nationalism via email?”

 

So we’ve exchanged a few emails. And we seem to be more, or less in the same place. So it makes a lot of sense for all of us to know that we are working towards similar objectives. And broadly giving support to people when they come into trouble, I think.

 

Paul: Well the likes of Tommy and Paul Golding. I mean, Paul Golding’s been arrested more than ten times! And he’s been incarcerated. And he’s been fined. And he’s had this bank account closed so many times. I mean, not being arrested three times. And each time I’ve been vindicated! I’ve turned the tables on the police. I’ve actually prosecuted the police! Because if you get to know the legal system, you begin to realize that they just ride roughshod over the laws of this country! They think they can do what they want, the police.

 

[68:21]

 

Now the thing is with my prosecutions of the police, they went a long way, but they weren’t successful. Because when it looks like you’re going to defeat the police, the Crown Prosecution Service takes over the case, and closes it! You cannot defeat the police! It’s Orwellian what they have done to our state!

 

But yeah, this could be the problem for nationalist parties in the future. That they’ll use legal means to try and thwart us at every turn. I mean, Tony Blair introduced in 1998 “hate crimes”, you know, this novel idea that’s what you think could now be criminalized. And since then there’s been a whole series of laws which have limited how we can express ourselves. And even our freedom of assembly.

 

I mean, I was prosecuted in Northern Ireland, virtually for nothing! I made a speech which was pretty, you know, it was a very moderate speech, deliberately so. It was outside the City Hall in Belfast. And I realized it was a dangerous place to make the speech. I didn’t want to promote the authorities there. I made a very moderate speech and then three months later my house was raided by the police! And I was dragged to Northern Ireland to face a criminal prosecution! Which went on for two years! They got me involved in a criminal case which lasted two years, just to thwarth my political activity. This is how the State now operates in Britain! It’s deeply disturbing! It’s deeply undemocratic!

 

I mean, we’ve got Trump taken on the deep state in America. I’m hoping that if he gets reelected and he cleanses that state, and gets rid of all these sort of the globalist operatives. And that would come over here and Trump will say:

 

“Clean up your act in Britain and let democracy go forth.”

 

[70:12]

 

Simon: I think it was just a bit, … Excuse me. But I think you’re a bit optimistic about Trump. I mean, Trump has been in office for four years, and he really hasn’t built the wall. He hasn’t cleaned the swamp. You can see from the Epstein death that the swamp hasn’t been cleaned at all. They’re still, you know, sliming about all over the place.

 

Really what makes you think that if he gets in again, isn’t he just going to be kind of treading water and running out his term? And a little bit like the Tories. Yes, he dog whistles to nationalism, which is why he’s not liked. But when it really comes down to its he actually doesn’t do very much. And it by the same token Boris Johnson isn’t gonna do very much. Boris Johnson, the Left call him a fascist and a Nazi, but in reality these people are pretty much as globalist as anybody else. They just come out with the nationalist rhetoric.

 

Paul: I think Johnson’s a comedian like figure. He judges the environment and he fits in with it. If Trump can get reelected and pursue a truly nationalistic agenda in America, I think Johnson will follow that lead. But the thing is with Trump, Trump is a miracle! He came from nowhere! The globalist had taken over America. I mean, John Brennan and Comey, the head of the CIA, and FBI. John Brennan was a communist, an Islamic convert. I mean, Comey is just a liberal Lefty. And the Left had taken over the media in America. It was taking over the State, it was taking over a lot of the State governments, it was controlling Congress. It looked like America was lost!

 

[72:01]

 

I remember Jonathan Bowden said:

“America was gonna go down first and we’ll follow!”

 

But Trump came from nowhere and he mobilized the American patriotic spirit! And he’s faced horrendous opposition! I mean, judicial opposition initially. Everything he tried to do was blocked in the courts. He had to get the Supreme Court appointments, which enabled them to free up a lot of his movements. And then, of course, he lost the House of Representatives in the midterms, which thwarted a lot of his economic agenda.

 

But he got a big tax cut through. The wall is being built. I don’t know how much of it as being built! I don’t know how much of it is being built but it certainly is being built. He has certainly cut down massively on immigration into America. I mean, it was when these big trains going up through Mexico, in managed to tear them back. It’s almost miraculous! But he’s changed the culture of America’s! He polarized America!

 

And he’s mobilized the patriots to fight back against the Left. They were demoralized, the patriots. He mobilized them and he’s built up this alternative media. And there’s a big body of people now in America, he’s got maybe 60, 65 million people in the Trump train, who are ready to fight for America, and a patriots in America, against the Left. And it’s the first time in decades that the Left has really been put on the back foot. So given the opposition that he faced, I’m really impressed with what Trump achieved.

 

Simon: I would say, but he hasn’t turned around the demographics! The demographics are, you know, the original, or the original colonists, the White European colonists of America have been given a little bit of leeway, perhaps a little bit of extra time, but ultimately America is going to fall. This has got to be turned around. The person that we had on last week Gavin Boby, one of the expressions that I’ve always learned from him regarding immigration and demographics, he always used to sayc, or I think he still does say:

“Slow the tide, stop the tide, turn the tide!”

 

And really with this issue — I don’t know if you were aware — but here in Britain in 2066 the indigenous Britons are no longer going to be a majority in this country. Now these things have significant effects on the culture.

 

[74:23]

 

Paul: I think it’s going to be long before 2066! I think we’ve got, at the most, 15 years, realistically. Because the under forties group, it’s almost 25 percent now. I mean, what gives us this big advantage demographically, is the over 70s but the over 70s are going to die off very quickly.

 

And yeah Trump, … I like that expression of stopping and slowing down and turning around, because we were in a ship that was going the wrong way, we’re heading to the rocks, we were heading for national disaster! And these people at the top — the Merkels, the Clintons — this is exactly what they wanted, which is really disturbing!

 

But Trump got control of the ship, become the pilot, and he’s slowed it down as it’s heading to the rocks. And I think he started to turn around. It’s a process, it’s gonna take time. But I think Trump’s heart in the right place.

 

Trump has not come from a globalist perspective. He was in the Reform Party with Ross Perot. He’s always been on the fringe of American politics. Trump’s father was accused to be in a member of the Ku Klux Klan and Trump was a huge admirer of his father. I think Trump’s heart is much more aligned and nationalist than people actually give him credit. Dont know if you agree with that?

 

Simon: Yeah, Horus? Sorry I was switching my mic on. Any thoughts on this? I’m much less optimistic about Trump. I think Trump is a good optics. Trump looks good but, you know, he had John Bolton in his, … He’s controlled! He’s not free to act. His heart might be in the right place, but I’ve not seen enough action. I’m sorry Paul. Horus. What do you think?

 

[76:17]

 

Horus: I like Paul’s optimism. I would love to see Trump do radical, sort of deep state, swamp draining in the second term. But yeah, it doesn’t seem at all likely to me. My impression is that Trump is maybe completely compromised by Israel. I’m not sure, but maybe via Epstein? Epstein. I’m not sure. Like the zionist control of the US to me, just seems almost total! And I reckon Trump might be just one of their instruments. Maybe almost every President candidate is? I’m not sure.

 

Paul: I think Trump’s boxing very clever with the jewish lobby in America! Because he’s split them. I mean, 80% of the jews vote Democrat, and the left-leaning, the ultra globalist. But there is 20% of them there that are conservative leaning. And he’s managed to bring them on board. Because if Trump had gone totally against the jewish lobby he would have been totally destroyed.

 

I mean, when Obama was re-elected in 2012, the jews in America was saying:

 

“We’ve taken over America! We’re the ruling elite now!”

 

They were actually saying that explicitly. So when Trump won and threw Clinton off in 2016, they were very annoyed about that. And they had the power to bring Trump down

 

He had to win a slice of their support, and he managed to do that. And the way he’s done it is linking up with Likud and the ultra zionists in Israel. But and putting them against the Liberals in America.

 

Don’t forget the people who are really opposing Trump — Soros, Schumer, Shiff, [word unclear] — they’re all New York jews, you know. They’re all incredibly wealthy people on Wall Street. And they’ve got a heck of a lot of clout!

 

[78:02]

 

So to counteract that, he’s had to bring other jews on board who will defend him. But what really matters to me about Trump is that he is coming in from the West to save Europe. From the East we got Vladamir Putin. And I see Trump and Putin as very, almost like coworkers in throwing off the globalist control of the world. Because Putin, he’s so important to us, because he’s re-Christianized Russia, and he’s revived Russian nationalism, and he’s revived traditionalism in Russia. Russia has got no toleration of the homosexual agenda, they’re stopping abortions now in Russia. Starting to see an increase in the birthrate in Russia for the first time in a long time.

 

And this is what we need. And this has fed into Poland. It’s fed into Hungary. So it’s coming in from the East. Trump from the West. And we’re seeing the emergence of all these nationalist figures in Europe like Salvini, Thierry Baudet in the Netherlands. Vlaams Belang in Belgium, you know, Santiago Pascal in Spain. Marine Le Pen is going in France.

 

And so there’s hope! There’s hope! These figures are emerging, and they’re very significant figures. And they’re there and at every point they can challenge the globalists. And we need this international wave, we need this international alliance of nationalists! I mean, you can go extra-Europe, you can go to Abe in Japan, you can go to Duarte in the Philippines. And, of course, very importantly Modi in India! The Indian nationalists, especially in the fight back against Islam.

 

And there’s a new dialectic in the world now. It used to be Left against Right, freedom against communism. Now it’s nationalism against globalism!

 

And we’re not coming from a position of weakness. We might be doing so in Britain, itself, although we hope it can come back and change. But globally the nationalist forces are becoming stronger and stronger!

 

And so we can be optimistic that we can actually win this battle! And that’s really since 2016, since Trump’s election. And I think we can feel that. We can actually overcome globalism!

 

[80:11]

 

Horus: Which side is Jerusalem on?

 

Paul: Jerusalem is always on all sides! [chuckling] [words unclear] there’s a [word unclear] in both camps. [loud laughter]

 

Simon: Yeah I mean, I think we’re quite optimistic about the future, Horus and I. We’re not directly involved, but we’re kind of loosely associated with Patrick Alternative. And I particularly think that after the last election through the “Red wall” voting Tory leaves a massive opening for nationalists, because that these aren’t loyal Tory voters.

 

We need to have a nationalist party with a working class ethic that will appeal to people who are patriotic and socially conservative. But also want their concerns dealt with. You know, they want hospitals, they want a decent welfare system. And I think their concerns about the demographics, and things like rape gangs, being taken very seriously. So we’re faced with a massive opportunity now. Which I think to a certain extent has been delayed by Brexit.

 

I don’t think anybody could think about anything else. Unfortunately now we’ve got the coronavirus. But, assuming Brexit does happen, the fact that Brexit has happened it gives normal politics a chance to kick back in. And it’s an opening for the various nationalist, populist, and patriotic groups that existed in Britain today.

 

[82:00]

 

Paul: I think we’ve got to make immigration, the big issue now. And then the consequences of what immigration, … We need to bring up this notion of we’re being replaced. Our cities are being altered out of all recognition. And we are in danger here! It’s happening far too quickly. And since 1997, we’ve allowed 10 million immigrants into Britain! And that’s a threat to our very existence! It’s an existential threat here!

 

This is [word unclear] of Britain. And we’ve got to rally people around that point. I mean, the hope was that the Conservatives were pickle this issue of immigration, and run with it and start to take action. But they were dragging the feet even before the coronavirus. They were talking good, but they actually done very little! And we’ve got to apply pressure! We’ve got to seize political power, or apply pressure on the Conservatives to stop immigration. Because we’ve got control of our borders again, this what leaving the European Union was all about. It was all about immigration! I know sovereignty is an important issue, but it was people who realized that we were being overrun.

 

And there is a constituency out there. That is the seventeen and a half million people who voted to leave! The old Labour constituencies which have turned to the Conservatives, the White working-class, know that the Labour Party doesn’t want to represent them! The Labour Party’s become the party of the fringes, the margins, the immigrants, the public sector. And there’s a massive opening there! There’s a gap! There’s a big gap in the political life of Britain that needs to be filled.

 

Horus: With Brexit it was very, very, annoying that it took three and a half years to actually get done. And we’re still not properly, until the end of this year and then possibly some extension of that, but once we are fully out of Brexit that excuse for the Tories is now stripped away, and they are exposed! It is then clearly them who are replacing us with Somalians, and Afghans, and so on! And they will have no excuse anymore.

 

[84:01]

 

So, I agree with what you said. Like we’ve gotta get immigration and demographics on the agenda. And in my opinion the key thing along with that is to emphasize that it is the Tories doing it. Because I think our hope lies in essentially destroying —. And this is just a monumental task — but destroying the Tory Party!

 

And one good thing is that with Corbyn gone, it’s harder for Tory voters to sort of excuse themselves from switching away from the Tories, because they feel they betrayed them, by threatening themselves, or the rest of us with Corbyn. Because Keir Starmer is simply a less frightening figure. I mean, it’s still bloody awful, but like Corbyn was like a bogey figure! They could tell themselves:

 

“Now is not the time to switch away from the Tories, because I risk a Corbyn government.”

 

But whereas a Keir Starmer government sounds so much more moderate, whether it is, or not, fuck knows!

 

Paul: For me, Labor’s got off the edge of the cliff now! It’s totally anti British, anti-White, anti-Christian. I mean, it’s brought into this “woke” agenda completely! It’s not interested in the ordinary people of Britain anymore. And, because of that, for me, it’s no longer relevant in the situation.

 

Now the Tory party itself, is a very cagey institution. And it’s all about power! The Conservatives is the oldest political party in the world. It’s being in power most imposed of our last 200 years. And what they doing in the Tories, it’s very clever. They’re splitting the immigrants, bringing the Hindus on board, they’re bringing the jews on board, they’re bringing the Chinese on board. And they’re making the sort of Muslims, and the black inner cities, the black working class, they’re making them Labour’s constituency. And that’s how Boris got elected in Uxbridge. And that’s how they’re working this whole sort of demographic change now. And so, they’re always clever the Conservatives. They always know how to manipulate the situation.

 

[86:09]

 

But if we want Britain to survive, and for the true British people, the ethnic British, to prosper in the future, that’s an agenda that we can buy into. We need the British, the ethnic British have a voice again in this country. This is what’s really tragic is that, certainly since Blair, the only time we’ve ever really had a voice is through the BNP. A little bit under UKIP. But we’re almost excluded from the political process, the ethnic British. And we need to rebel against this! We can’t accept I! Because it will lead to disaster!

 

Simon: Yes, precisely. Sorry Horus.

 

Horus: It’s just gonna take serious, determined, organization, and a lot of intelligence, some luck, and a lot of [word unclear]. Yeah, like what you said before they’re gonna use all the legal means, you know, lawfare and stuff. Our movement is gonna need lawyers, apart from anything else.

 

And I had a conversation with a guy from Manchester, called Phil. It’s on my channel if anyone wants to watch it. And one thing that came out of that conversation, we agreed that, yeah, we’re taking on the state, not just, you know, political parties!

 

And I think attacking this state, has to be a part of our strategy. Taking legal action against them, wherever we can. Because one good thing is that I’ve seen two YouTube channels recently, just in the last couple of weeks, saying, they are going to do exactly that. One’s called Crime Bodge. I don’t think he’s a political guy, I don’t know, he’s always going on about police corruption, police malpractice.

 

He says he’s gonna start taking legal action against police in Rotherham over the rape scandal. It’s very encouraging and I would encourage people to check that out. Another one’s called Not-So-Obvious. He’s making some big documentary, or series, about the rape gangs, trying to bring all the information together. And this is all about just saying:

“Well we don’t care whether it’s Labour, or whatever, it’s about whoever is allowing these networks of foreign men of rape British children!”

 

The people allowing that are criminals themselves! And they have to be taken down! And I see some sort of increasing focus and determination on, you know, [words unclear] we are responsible for this, we’re gonna get them! And I think that’s really encouraging, and to be encouraged as well! So I like that.

 

[88:44]

 

Simon: Okay, let’s do a few questions and superchats. We’ve only got one superchat so far tonight. It’s from the fantastic Thin Red Line, who sends ten US dollars and says:

“Great stream very interesting! Paul Rimmer, …”

 

This is a slightly tongue it tongue in cheek question for Paul, but it takes us into interesting territory. The Thin Red Line asks:

 

“Paul Rimmer, will you join Patriotic Alternative?”

 

Paul: I believe we need nationalist unity in Britain, I mean, there’s a heck of a lot of talent out there. I mean, Horus has just talked about legal minds. But it needs a leader! Someone’s got to emerge to lead the nationalist movement. Mark Collett’s a very charismatic guy. He’s very intelligent. He’s very capable. If he could just drop his baggage, or turn against, it he could be a very effective leader.

 

Paul Golding is an immensely capable political activist! He can make things happen! He could be an effective leader. Again, he’s got problems, because he’s a got a criminal record. The state has persecuted him for so long.

 

But I almost go back to Enoch Powell. Enoch Powell came out of the establishment and created the earthquake. I mean, in 1968 80% of the British people backed Powell. They backed Enoch Powell. But he didn’t have a political party to take power.

 

[90:14]

 

When Boris Johnson came out to the establishment and fought for Brexit, it was successful. It’s sort of, I’ve got to believe that there’s somebody there in that mix, in that establishment who is a genuine patriot! A genuine nationalist who wants to preserve the British nation. Who wants the British people to survive. And we’ve got to hope that somebody does emerge as a leader. And the Patriotic Alternative, I mean, Ralph is a fantastic guy! He’s very inspirational. And he’s got great insight. And I’m learning a lot from Ralph from studying his ideas.

 

And the Patriotic Alternative is going places, it’s dynamic! But it needs to fit in with the nationalist wave, internationally, because you should be inspired by what’s happening across Europe and across the world with the nationalist movements. This is our hope. We get inspiration from that. And we get resources from that as well, and support. So I think we can be optimistic. And the Patriotic Alternative is part of the nationalist sort of resurgence in this country. Why not join it?

 

Simon: Yeah. I think what’s important is that we don’t counter signal each other. I know you’re pretty close to Britain, First. I’ll put this up on the screen now just to emphasize the point that you’ll be speaking along with Paul Golding and Tommy Robinson. Who we might touch on the issue of Tommy Robinson, who we tend to be more critical of but the good thing about Paul Golding is he doesn’t counter signal.

 

[91:55]

 

And yeah, both Horus and I are close to the Patriotic Alternative group, part of the general group. But one of our interests in speaking to you Paul is precisely this. That I felt that you would be the kind of person with whom we can build these kind of bridges. We need to be building bridges between these different groups, because we can’t be running around calling each other fascists, and Nazis, as we’ve been called recently. Because, you know, that’s behaving like the Left in our opinion.

 

Paul: We will all be called fascists, and Nazis, by the Left, anyway. Doesn’t mean, you know, it doesn’t matter if you are the real McCoy, or you are just an impersonator, or you are just a patriot, they will use these negative terms against you. But I think they’ll losing their power, their potency. Nazism’s a long time ago! Second World War finished in 1945.

 

For me, it belongs to history, you know, it’s like Cromwell and Napoleon. It’s from the past. And we’ve got to look forward! We’ve got to save our country, for our future generations! And this is what Ralph keeps emphasizing. We’ve got to look to the future now and see the opportunities ahead. Let go of the past and focus on what we can do to save this nation.

 

Simon: Yeah, the problem is that some of the groups. And this is why I retain my admiration. I think Paul’s style is a little bit different from ours, because he’s often quite confrontational, which is probably the reason why well he gets into trouble, so often. But and Marie waters, for example, recently made a video basically telling lies! Saying that we’re racists. Using using words like “Nazi”, and that we want to round all black and brown people up and throw them out of the country.

 

[94:03]

 

Which is a million miles from the truth! And I’m sorry for putting you on the spot here. But obviously I’ve done my research and I’ve seen that you’ve kind of given your support, or certainly did a video at a meeting with Anne Marie. And I find this kind of behavior, speaking honestly, reprehensible, because it’s not getting us anywhere really.

 

Paul: Well I’ve always regarded Anne Marie as an incredibly courageous woman! And I think her position on Islam is very strong. But I’ve actually pushed this said:

 

“What’s your ideology? You’ve come out of the Labour party, you’re anti-Islam, what’s your ideas for the future of Britain?”

 

And she won’t commit herself to anything. And I was very disappointed the way she attacked Patriotic Alternative, the language which she used, homophobic, misogynistic, fascist, racist! It was a tick list from the Social Justice Warriors! And that sort of exposed the heart of it. I was very disappointed in that.

 

I mean, there’s great people in For Britain. I mean, Eddie Butler was there, a lot of exBNP people. We need really to be part of the nationalist coalition to change this country round.

 

I mean For Britain, they’re using the electoral road, and they’re trying to create a shield, so they can’t be attacked. But I was really disappointed when she said those things. I just thought:

 

“No, I can’t buy that, I don’t go along with that. I’m sorry.”

 

That’s not the language I would use. That’s the language of the Left. That’s destructive! That’s negative! That is how the Left operates. It’s all about negativity and destruction.

 

We’ve got to recognize positives in all situations. We’ve got to see Patriotic Alternative, there’s a lot of very genuine, very worthwhile people in it. You can offer hope to this country.

 

Simon: Well this is what we think we are. [chuckling]

 

[96:02]

 

Horus: This should probably go for all nationalists, like ninety, ninety-five percent of our time should be spent fighting our real enemies, our mutual enemies. And there are occasions when you’re gonna need to stand up for your movement, because you’ve been attacked by another one. And that Anne Marie Waters attack on PA the other week was one [words unclear] not that significant in my opinion. I mean, it’s just, because For Britain, you know, it’s not that big a deal. And also that actually I think gained us some supporters from For Britain as well. But the other incident was when Tommy Robinson’s channel last summer, just unprovoked, made a really vicious attack on Shazia Hobbs, Dionne Moller and Mark Collett.

 

And that triggered off a huge surge of people moving from sort of the general Counter Jihad perspective into proper ethnic nationalism. Which videos I’ve made since then have all been in designed to encourage. And I would just say, yeah on those occasions you’ve got to make clear right that we disagree with you there, and we’re not standing for that.

 

But, I think among PA guysc like some of us, you know, in recent months have got overly focused on the groups just adjacent to us in ideological terms. And like we spent so much time just trying to destroy every little remnant of idiocy among them. Mostly our fight should be against the people actually bringing in foreigners into the country. Which, you know, is not to be blamed on Tommy Robinson, or Britain, First. That’s being done by the politicians and by this civil service, and so on. So I’d say if we’re spending more than five percent of our time attacking other patriot nationalists type people, we’re getting it wrong, I think. There’s a small call for it, but that is about all.

 

[98:09]

 

Simon: Yeah, I totally agree.

 

Paul: We need to campaign to win elections. We need an organization which is ready to fight elections and which can sort of persuade the British people that we are there to represent them. And get the British people involved in that organization. I mean, Britain, First has been thwarted a lot, because of the legal position. They’re not allowed to stand candidates at the moment, they’re trying to overcome that. But we need a political force.

 

And For Britain to their creditor, they’re the only people that are actually fighting elections from any sort of patriotic perspective. And we desperately need to fight elections, because then you do look outwards. Then you do connect with the people and you start to address people’s hearts. And realize we can’t be ahead of the British people, we’ve got to bring them with us, you know, in this crusade to save our nation.

 

Now Tommy Robinson is a folk hero in this country! I mean, he’s an incredibly brave guy. He’s been in prison. He’s been attacked and he stayed the course. He’s fought back! Now politically, he tried to get elected for the Northwest, he failed there. He needs to connect with a political party. Because he needs to have a real political ideology, and not just a Counter Jihad approach. So, maybe he is a work in progress, or maybe he’s not, but only time will tell.

 

Simon: Okay. Let me just do a few more, more superchats have come in this is great. Let’s have a look. We’ve got Jay Radio who says:

 

“Great show guys! Great to see discussion and cooperation. Collectivise to survive!”

 

Yes, we agree mate. And Steve Ben Bob, another three US dollars. And thanks very much Steve Ben Bob. Another regular contributor, says:

 

“Important discussion tonight we need more of them.”

 

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. And we need to be reaching out. And I really agree with what Horus has just said.

 

We need to be building bridges, and we need to identify who the real, .., or we need to be fighting against who the real enemy is! Which is primarily the Left and Islam. We can talk about this in broader terms and broader strategies, but the enemy is pretty visible. And we really ought not to be bickering amongst ourselves.

 

Horus: And find Eric Pickles as well! [laughter].

 

I was on them I was on a stream with Laura Towler the other night — Hail Laura! And I said on that, whatever differences I’ve got with For Britain, … I mean, I don’t share their zionist support for Israel and stuff, you know, things like that. But all the same, if the next election comes around that I see, you know, fifty For Britain counselors have been elected, I’ll be delighted! Because that’s still progress! That’s still good. So I still see them as sort of brothers in the cause, really. We just got differences. But. We really need to spend very little time on the differences, right? Because we’re the task we face is so monumental anyway!

 

Paul: There’s so much great talent in the nationalist movement. If we pool our resources and get properly organized, and get a decent leader — it’s all big “ifs”, like. But if that happens, we could really impact this country again like we did during the BNP years.

 

I mean, we haven’t mentioned Nick Griffin tonight. He’s an interesting character in the background.

 

Simon: Yeah. Well Nick Griffin, I don’t know if you saw the interview we did with Nick Griffin three weeks ago? Very, very interesting. Quite strong differences of opinion, because Nick thinks and the basis of the difference of opinion is, Nick has given up on the electoral route. And he thinks we’re going to lose the electoral route. If it comes to a civil ethnic civil war, the indigenous people are also going to lose. So we ought to be going off into the country and creating, … Well I suppose this is an unkind and ungenerous summary of what he said. But we ought to be community building. And both Horus and my view of this is, of course, we need to community build!

 

[102:26]

 

All the nationalist groups, patriotic groups, that were involved in, community building is part of this. But firstly we shouldn’t give up on the electoral route! And if things did —. And this is in the worst of circumstances — if things did come to violence, I think you need to be very careful about completely giving up on the indigenous people of these islands who are much better rooted much more capable of looking after themselves. Obviously it’s a scenario that we don’t want to play out.

 

But we’re not finished yet! We’re not finished until we’re finished! And there’s plenty of votes left in it in his first. And if that doesn’t work, there’s plenty of fight left in us, I think. And that was basically Nick’s view. Nick is taking a back seat, I think. I’d like to speak to him again in the future. But. I don’t think we can count on him. Certainly in the kind of projects we’re talking about.

 

Paul: He did sound very jaundiced and disillusioned Nick. But, I think he probably can be re-inspired again. I mean, hope for me, hope springs eternal. That’s what being a Christian is all about. Even the dead can be resurrected, you know. And I think there’s so much hope out there and optimism. And. I don’t think he’s reading the demographics correctly. We’re not finished yet. We’ve still got a couple of decades to save this country. I mean, Ralph’s emphasized that point. And we need to:

 

“Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our English dead!”

 

That’s the cry of old Henry the V*. But we don’t give up! Griffin’s wrong about that. We need to keep fighting and winning this political battle.

 

 

[104:14]

 

 

Horus: If things descend into violence which I mean, there is likely that there’ll be some sort of communal violence in the decades to come. But I mean, he mentioned that, yeah, obviously like nationalism has in many cases been populated by like fat, drunken, middle-aged, men. And I think he’s leaving aside the fact that they’re also quite a lot of young men, who if things start dividing along such clear lines, you will see that there is talk, like a fighting quality amongst Englishmen. We have made fine warriors over the centuries. And often very fearsome, vicious warriors as well! Psychopathic warriors in some cases, in a good way.

 

Paul: The Celts and the Saxons have a great heritage of fighting warriors, you know. And that’s what nationalism is about! Reinvigorating that and bringing it back to life! It’s not just about winning elections, it’s about stirring the national spirit again. Reviving the British soul! Oswald Mosely used to talk about that a lot. It’s the soul of Britain! It’s the inner spirit that needs to be revived. And that’s what we’ve got to do! And we’re the only people who are going to do that. We’re the vanguard of that. We’re the people who’ve kept hold of that spirit, or found that again. We might have gone off to the Left but we come back to patriotism. And I believe there’s a lot of young people out there who can be revived again. That spirit can be stirred in them, and we reconnect with our past. The positive things that are our past. The strength of our past.

 

Simon: This is one of the great things about the atmosphere we’re moving in at the moment. I’ve just turned 60. So I’m definitely the old man of this. But there’s lots of guys moving in our circles. We’ve got a young lad who’s 15, plenty of guys in their early twenties. So it’s really positive. There’s young people who are getting involved in this. And before we move on I don’t want to do another superchat from Johnny Jay, who’s another regular contributor. Thank you very much. He sends 25 US dollars and he says:

 

“Great show lads! Paul my mum and dad were born in Walton. Ripon Street and Eaton Street. Is there any hope for Walton now? Like what you are saying about the Left being in disarray, they are. The government is too, e.g., the tweet from the health account from ethnicities and genders adversely affected by Covid ridiculed. Time to pounce!”

 

Did you get that Paul, or do you want me to repeat any of it?

 

Paul: No I got that, yeah, I mean, Walton, I grew up in Walton as a kid. I used to live in the shadow of Goodison Park, Everton Football Club. And it’s an old traditional scouse working-class community. It voted Tory for most of its history. I mean, the famous Lord Birkenhead, Frederick Smith, he was the MP for Walton. And this is great hope there! There’s great hope for the people. I know people in Walton, and I know even though they’ve sort of voted Labour of late, they are patriotic people. And they are strong people! They are very masculine as well! Very traditional people.

 

And one way, or another, we’re gonna stir the British people again. We’re not gonna go down without a fight! We’re going to stir the British people! Were not prepared to see this nation Islamized! We’re not prepared for the British people to be pushed aside!

 

There’s a glory in this nation. That is what Jonathan began used to speak about. The glory of Britain! And it’s there. It went over to the United States in a sense. And this is one of the great things about Donald Trump, his mother is Scottish! She’s got that Scottish grit about her! And we have got to revive that Britishness, that Scottishness, that scouseness! The old Cockneys of the East End, they were pushed out, we can’t allow this to continue!

 

We’ve got to value our head our heritage! Our working-class heritage! The common people, the yeomanry. You know, the men of oak who fought at the Battle of Trafalgar. The men who fought at Waterloo! The men who built the British Empire! He crossed the five continents and made Britain the supreme nation of the world! And English is the language of the world!

 

So much glory of this nation. And it comes from the common folk, the common man. Because we’re a great people, we’re a gifted people, and we were in line with God, and we were in line with what was right, and we’ve got to stir that again! We got to awaken the British spirit again!

 

Simon: Fantastic stuff! And another superchat from Serena JB. Thank you Serena, and that three 3 GB pounds:

 

“Very interesting show as always.”

 

And we’ve got a few questions as well that are unpaid, but we’re going to read them out anyway. Chaé Ragnarson has got the top one with two votes:

 

“How was, or what was the message the NF [National Front] gave to be able to draw in the following they began to amass during those times?”

 

You know, what was it about the NF that that attracted so many people back in the 1970s?

 

Paul: Well, it fed on Enoch Powell’s message, that we were bringing about our own downfall. That the funeral pyre was being built! And when it was going to be lit, this great nation is gonna be extinguished. And we all had a duty as Englishmen, as British people, to stop this happening! And people bought into that. People were very patriotic, it wasn’t long after the war. It was only like, 30 years, after the war. And it was that war generation was still around.

 

[110:04]

 

But people still love this country! They love this island! I mean, it’s a beautiful place Britain! It’s got a fantastic history! And we’re all privileged to be British! I mean, Cecil Rhodes said:

 

“To be born British is to win first prize in the lottery of life!”

 

I mean, we passed the baton to America, and we’ve got the English-speaking world. But it’s still something of real value here. We have to rise for the challenge and defend it, and make Britain prosper again!

 

Simon: Okay, fantastic! And the second question from Chief Only Son Smith, who is definitely a gritty Scot, says:

 

“Bearing in mind the only enemy we really have is the White, smug, liberal, Libtard, normie, should we just double down on the bad optics and truth-telling, rather than grovel to these traitorous vermin? Discuss!”

 

So, I think he’s saying:

 

“Do we mind being called fascists?”

 

Paul: Well we don’t need, … These labels, they really should just fall away from us, because what we are is people who love our history, and our traditions, and other people going through the ages! Not just Britain, but part of Christendom. That’s really important. We fought in the Crusades to defeat Islam in the past. And that war against Islam started really in a 7th century and didn’t conclude until very recently! It went on for over a thousand years! You could say it ended at the gates of Vienna.

 

Simon: I think it still hasn’t concluded actually!

 

Paul: It’s rekindled hasn’t it. Now and we’ve got to rise to the challenge again. I think we’ve got to revive our churches. I’m really impressed the way Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church is reviving Russia. And you can see like Modi in India, Hinduism. He’s using religion to revive the nation. In Japan, Shintoism with Abe [Prime Minister]. And Viktor Orban, and in Poland, the Catholic Church is very conservative, very nationalistic. We need the churches, because we need the spiritual uplift as well.

 

We’ve got to realize that this is a spiritual battle were fighting. We’re not just fighting for our race and our history, were fighting for what is right and true! We’re fighting for what is decent, you know what is wholesome!

 

This is why our fight is against Cultural Marxism, as well as Islam, and as well as this globalist agenda. It’s a fight for what is worthwhile in life. This is about the purpose of our lives, to create a better future for our children. To value what we’ve received in the past, and to actually keep it strong in the present. This is the battle that were fighting. The spiritual battle! And we’ve got to revive the Christian spirit in Britain.

 

Simon: Yeah. I tend to agree. I’m so close to becoming a full Christian! I go to churches all the time — when the coronavirus doesn’t keep me at home! I’m kind of a massive fan of religious art, and wander around Catalonia, and all over Spain, actually. I love the architecture! I love everything about it! I love the way it makes me feel.

 

But there’s something very sad, is that religiosity, sadly, and I have to admit it, has been educated out of me! There’s a lot of time I kind of look around and like:

 

“Please! Please come and save me!”

 

I would really like it to happen, but it doesn’t seem to happen. But you’re completely right. You need to be fighting! We need to be poet warriors, fighting for a greater cause!

 

Paul: I like that!

 

Simon: That comes from the higher good really, I think.

 

Horus: Something we agreed on, … Oh sorry [interrupting Paul]. Just in the first few weeks of us doing this. I started doing this with Simon, what, last October sort of time. And within the first few weeks we sort of agreed on one particular point. That of a moral principle, I guess. Just that we believe in beauty, truth, and goodness, right? I mean, I’m not, I wouldn’t call myself a Christian. I did pray for the first one since I was a child earlier this year. And it was answered. I don’t know to whom exactly I was praying. But there was something happened, and I felt myself changing since.

 

So I’m beginning to agree with what you say about the spiritual cause. What never motivates me, is just when people say that we need to be spiritual, because it’s of utility to us. It has to be authentic, otherwise, it just seems like an imposition, if that makes sense. So that’s how it appears to me, anyway. But I’m speaking from a sort of atheist point of view.

 

But, you know, that has to be nurtured in the most, … I can’t even describe how it can be done! Like the nurturing of the spiritual side of the movement, if it presented to you as a matter of obligation, it’s very off-putting. This is how I find it anyway. But if it’s something that you actually, … I can’t finish off my thoughts, … That’s how I developed my thinking, is I can’t finish my sentence. [chuckling]

 

Paul: , you know what, we’re going through period of purification! And I see it mostly in Russian, the purifying. I mean, they got rid of communism. I mean, in the Ukraine alone they removed 5,000 statues of Lenin in Ukraine! I mean, millions of streets in Russia have been renamed! Places, artifacts have been removed!

 

The only thing they’ve left in the communist period it’s the war memorials. So it’s like a purification of the nation, going back to its heart, and it’s soul. Which is Russia, the Christian faith. But we need a purification in the churches as well in the West.

 

Pope Francis, the Jesuit Order, they were taken over by the Marxist in the 1960s. What should be a source of strength for us and the institution’s we can gather round, the Cultural Marxists have moved in and corrupted them! The Church of England has been really severely damaged! Maybe beyond redemption. Now this as part of the battle as well. Saving our culture, saving our spiritual life, saving our religious heritage! This is all its all part of the battle were fighting. It’s a much bigger battle just fighting for our race and our nation. It’s a battle really to save what is a glorious culture!

 

This is what Jonathan Bowden used to speak about. Something which it inspires us, and gives our life meaning, and gives us hope for the future. And something, which is worth fighting and dying for! This is what we’re losing in our culture. Now everything is losing it’s meaning, and it’s significance, and people are sort of apathetic.

 

That spirit that the British people could be stirred to actually fight to the death for something, this is what we had in the past! This is why we survived as a nation. Because don’t forget, Britain, the Spanish Armada came here, the French tried to destroy us, we had to fight across the five continents to establish our Empire. We had that inner zeal in us! You know, it’s really important! It’s like a force of life, and it’s a positive thing, it’s a positive energy! This is what we need in the nationalist movement. We need that vitality!

 

In the sense the National Front had in the 1970s, and the BNP had it between 2000 and 2010. And when you were part of it was so invigorating!

 

I remember going to like the Red, White, and Blues of the BNP and the atmosphere was electric! That sense of comradeship! Friendliness! Lifting each other up was amazing! It was like going back to a golden age Britain. And this is what the Left despise. They despise this collectivist spirit!

 

I mean, Simon talked about the NUM and stuff, they were Marxists and communists, but they did have, the has been lost in a sense, that working class community. That sense of solidarity. And it’s so important to make a nation strong and it came out of the churches in the past, and these are sources of energy for our people. These are sources of life, social reproduction. And they’re so important!

 

This is what Trump has brought back to America. When you see as rallies, you feel the energy of his rallies! They’re electric! And people are inspired by them! You have to raise people’s horizons! They have to see something beyond themselves, the bigger picture, that were not individuals just going through life, you know, struggling to get through each day, but we belong to a collective and ancient body.

 

Simon: Well, I think that is a great, … We have just come up to the two hours. I think that’s a great, an inspiring way to finish. It’s about the greater good. We have to collectivize. We talk a lot about collectivizing and re-racinating, about understanding who we are. And I don’t know what you think Paul. But I think this conversation has been really positive. It shows that people in this movement have plenty in common, and any minor differences that we have, can easily be overcome. And I think the audience should take that away as a really positive message.

 

Paul: Hear, hear! Thanks Simon! Thanks Horus! Appreciate it!

 

Simon: A pleasure having you on Paul. If you want to check out Paul’s YouTube channel. The link is in the description box.

 

Thanks for being here folks. I think it’s been a fantastic conversation. Look after yourselves, and we’ll see you all next week!

 

Paul: Bye!

 

Horus: Thank you Paul!

 

[120:14]

 

 

 

 

END

 

 

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See Also

 

Simon Harris – My Speech to the Patriotic Alternative Conference – Mar 16, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 19 – A Conversation with Nick Griffin – Apr 14, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 21 – Keeping A Political Project On Point with Dangerfield – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 23 – Is Populism and Patriotism Enough? with Paul Rimmer – May 5, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 22 – Gavin Boby on Mosque-busting and the Breakdown of Society – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 25 – The State of the Art with Jeff Winston & Nick Cotton – May 19, 2020 — Transcript

 

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PDF Notes

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Version History

 

Version 9: May 26, 2020 — Added 24 minutes of proofed text. Transcript now fully proofed!

 

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