[Simon Harris and Horus talk with Jeff Winston, founder of White Art Collective, and Nick Cotton, founder of Vile Media, and Unwashed. They discuss the need for promoting art, in all its forms, with a pro-White nationalist perspective and emphasis.
Simon also very kindly gave this site, katana17.com/wp/, a plug and urged listeners to help out with the transcripts here! Thanks Simon!
>(NOTE: This transcript has only been partially fully proofed (35/121 mins). Please volunteer some time and help complete the transcript. Instructions are given below. Doing even just a couple of minutes is helpful — thanks!)<<<
Contributors, so far: Dawn Browning.
European Freedom #55
The State of Art
with Jeff Winston &
May 19, 2020
Click here for the video:
Published on May 19, 2020
EF #25: The State of the Art with Jeff Winston (White Art Collective) and Nick Cotton (Vile/Unwashed)
Entropy Link for Superchats, Questions and Poll on Livestreams
Horus on Twitter @nastymutant
Unwashed on Twitter @ed_unwa
White Art Collective on Twitter @WhiteCollective
Support My Work
If you use the new Brave browser for 30 days, they’ll fund my channel with a bonus!
Here’s the link: https://brave.com/eur333
Simon Harris on BitChute
Join the conversation on the European Freedom Forum
Simon: Okay. Hello everyone! I hope the stream has started. Welcome to European Freedom livestream number 25. And this one’s called “The State of the Art”. And we’ve got some two great guests. Jeff Winston from the White Art Collective, and Nick Cotton! We were just talking about this. Not everybody knows Nick Cotton. But Nick Cotton is Unwashed, and he also is running the project Vile, Vile Media. So we’re gonna have a really interesting show.
But before we kind of get started before I talk about Horus’s dinner which is the traditional thing we do to start the stream. I just wanted to mention, well I just wanted to admonish listeners and subscribers, and give a shout out to a guy called “katana 17” who has a website. Let’s see if I can find a website. Yeah, here’s the katana 17 website. And what katana does is he transcribes, he uploads lots of documents, books, PDFs. But his main work has been transcribing speeches. He did various speeches of the both the PA conferences, and videos, and livestreams.
Basically what he’s doing is he’s documenting the intellectual basis of this movement. I think it’s incredibly important work! He’s a member of my forum, and I’ll put the forum in the chat. I’ll put various links in the chat. And we were kind of hoping when he got into the forum — I’m just putting the link in there now — that he gets some help doing this incredibly important transcription work. And I’ll put the link to his, … Yeah I mean, look at it! He’s got all this stuff here, this stuff by me, this stuff by Morgoth, Morgoth’s last video. I mean, loads and loads of really important stuff. Let me put his link in.
And, you know what he needs is he needs help doing this important work. I kind of get loads of people saying to me:
“Simon! Simon! What can I do to help?”
And the moment you say well something really useful would be transcribing five minutes of such and such a live stream, and helping katana with his work. And. What do you get? The sound of crickets. So I’m a little bit pissed off with people in general. I would suggest you can either go straight to his website, and he’s got instructions and you can help him by taking a piece of a live stream, or a document and using the comments section.
Alternatively you can go to my forum and you can interact with him there. Just sign up to the forum. And it would be nice to get a kind of community of people doing, … One of the reasons for the forum is that is to coordinate people. It’s where people have time and interact with each other. So those are your two options. Please help him! He really needs some help. It’s very, very important.
Anyway, after that little rant, I’ll say hello to my mate Horus first. How’s it going? What have you had for dinner today mate?
Horus: I had a Thai green curry, which I made myself.
Unwashed: Booo! [chuckling]
Horus: What it’s not British?
Unwashed: Well it’s normally fish and chips, or a pie, or something! [chuckling]
Horus: We don’t have pies often enough, actually. Yeah, no we do often have fish and chips. But green curry and rice, and broccoli, you know, the classic accompaniments with Thai green curry [word unclear] goes well.
Simon: And for pudding?
Horus: I had sort of Tesco’s own brand “After Eights”. Two of them, really nice. Do, you know what’s different tonight though?
Simon: Yes I know. We already knew this, so [trumpet sounds] come on, tell us!
Horus: You don’t know what I’m gonna say. Well, there’s that as well, I’ll tell you that after. The less interesting bit is that normally after dinner on a Tuesday, like ready for European Freedom, I’ll go for a quick walk to walk off my dinner. I come in and put my dressing gown on. But it’s just too warm!
So tonight I’m just sitting in shorts! No one really cares, but, … The other thing is I put out my new, well I started putting out my new videos — in six parts. There might be seven. I might do a seventh part. But yeah, they’re on my BitChute channel. Part 1 & 2, are on my BitChute channel. So thanks to everyone who’s watched in them. You know, check them out, they might be interesting.
Simon: Okay. I haven’t watched it yet, but I’m sure I will. As I was putting the links in the description box I noticed that you’ve done it. So this is the big news for this week!
Horus: And there’s another thing as well. I got banned off YouTube! So anyone who’s looking for me on YouTube I’m banned now. But I am still on BitChute, so yeah. Sorry, carry on.
Simon: Okay and the next person, the first person we got to say hello to is Nick. How’s it going Nick? Unwashed, Vile Media, man of many faces, and many things! How’s it going mate? We’d not talked for a while, actually.
Unwashed: Not on a stream, but, you know,
Simon: We have we talked privately, obviously, but not on a stream. So, I know what’s up with you, tell the viewers what’s up.
Unwashed: The viewers, what’s up with me? I’ve got Vile episode, six season finale, on Sunday. And I’ve set the bar too high for that one. So I haven’t started editing it, because I’m nervous! Like, I just want it to be this enormous White pill of all of our successes so far this year, and any sort of nostalgia that that we’ve missed, that we haven’t put in the past five!
So yeah, I’ve got to pull that one out of the bag for some day. But then I can have a rest! I’m really happy with what we’ve done over there. And the submissions that we’re getting for articles are just great. And Simon submitted a playlist for a mixtape! It’s all going well! It’s all good fun, the stuff that I’m involved in at the moment.
Simon: Yeah, yeah, I think it’s really cool. It’s kind of reclaiming recent culture isn’t it? That’s is that a fair summary of what you’re doing?
Unwashed: That’s a very good way to put it. Yes this reclaiming stuff, because. So I’m a refugee from the UK music scene. And I noticed that every single sub-genre is hard Left, for no good reason. But that every single, little, micro genre has been captured! And they all babble the same talking points about multiculturalism, pro-choice, whatever. And I just think it’s time to say:
“No! As British nationalist we get to be proud of anything that was by British people, fundamentally!”
So Sex Pistols, having that! All the British comedy that we love that other people around the world wouldn’t get, because it’s not from their culture, we’re having that! And that’s my logic for it, it doesn’t have to be like, you know, nationalists. We can’t go around just going:
“Oh Morrissey’s our boy, and no one else’!”
I think there’s a better way to do it. So that’s what we’re attempting.
Horus: Morrissey’s Screwdriver?
Unwashed: Yeah, exactly! You know, [chuckling] and yeah I’m not the biggest fan of their imagery, if I’m honest.
Horus: Or their pony songs?
Unwashed: I’ve never listened to them. But I did ask Mark about them. I was like:
“So is it overblown, or were they, you know, as the media’s described them?”
“Yeah, they went pretty full-on!”
Alright, okay. That’s not really what I’m about, and what I’m endorsing.
Simon: Okay let’s get on to the guest who we don’t know yet. And finally get to him. Jeff, Jeff Winston of the White Art Collective. How’s it going mate? It’s really nice to talk to you for the first time.
Jeff: Yeah it’s nice to talk to you guys. Hello, and thanks for having me on. This is the first time I’ve done a show in a different time zone. And it makes sense for it to be our brethren across the pond. So thank you guys very much for having me.
Simon: Yeah you had a bit of a problem didn’t you? Aren’t we on your lunch hour now?
Jeff: Yeah, thereabouts. Actually, I miscalculated that. It’s a little after my lunch hour. But I adjusted, because I badly wanted to be on here and talk to you guys. So I’m technically working from home. So, you know how that goes [loud laughter]
Simon: So you could move things about a bit.
Simon: Okay. Really, I mean, I think the truth is lots of our audience in the UK aren’t that familiar of what the White Art Collective is about. You seem to be mainly US based. But there are exceptions. There’s our own very good Jack White, who I had on a stream over Christmas. And there’s a few people here in Europe. But I think it’s fair to say that most of you are based the US, although we’d like to encourage more adherents here in Europe. Can you give us some kind of an introduction? However, you like, how it started, when it came together, and who’s involved, really.
Jeff: Yeah, first of all I’ll kind of give you our main mission statement. So the White Art Collective is a collection of artists of European descent whose mission is to preserve promote, celebrate and expand upon our shared European culture. And definitely like you said there, we are American centric. I’m the founder and director so, you know, I’m an American. And that went into like how I’ve shaped it, the reason I use the term White, rather than European, even though, I kind of obviously, we use that somewhat exchange to be very synonymous, obviously. And then turn around and defined as a collection of artists of European descent.
And we do have quite, we’re definitely American centric, but we do have quite a few people from across the euro sphere. We got quite a few from the UK. We’ve played some of Nick stuff as well. Looking forward to getting to some more stuff from him. And Jay Ray Do who’s also affiliated with Nick and Vile, he sent us the song “Jack is White”, is one of our main featured artists. Jack is great! Jack’s brilliant! And he’s a pillar of the White Art Collective community. He’s involved in a number of other shows and goings on behind the scenes. The Decency, also super talented guy. And we’ve worked with Zerious a lot. Hiris has done a couple collaborations with him. She’s one of our, she’s an American with a Welsh name there. And let’s see, Mama P from Mamas and the Pepe’s. She’s also done a couple collaborations with Zerious.
But yeah, we got people from Romania, Sweden, Australia, Canada, Hungary, Poland, France, Norway. One of the Whiter countries in South America. I cannot remember it off the top my head. It’s been a while since I talked to that gentleman. And also France. We just got a couple, got in contact with a couple of French guys. So it’s cool that we’re kind of expanding out in that way. And that one of the reasons that we wanted to come onto the show here, is to do that.
So the way it kind of got started was that I’ve been playing music, I’m an artist and a filmmaker myself, and I’ve also done some DJing and some event organizing. I’m also a writer as well. And so for a long time I’ve just seen the need for organization amongst artists. I see artists kind of get kicked around. You know, I’ve gone and lived in some of these like artist enclaves, like Nick was saying. These places and a lot of the genres and everything involved are very leftist. And there’s no reason that they should own those things. But they are at the moment for the most part. And so I’ve gone and lived in those places, and just seeing artists kind of get the short end of the stick from the business side of things, and just in general.
You know, artists are very independently minded people. It’s kind of hard to get them to organize. They’re probably the most non-conforming types you’re gonna come across. So it’s almost oxymoronic to try to get them to come together. But this isn’t the first time that artists have been organized. There was a time when there were, you know, guilds and things like that and different types of organizations that back in different parts of Europe where people organized in these types of ways.
But, so yeah, I just recognized that artists needed to be organized. And then when I saw, so I’d kind of had that in the back of my mind. But then in the last few years when I saw all of this very anti-nationalist, anti-traditional, anti-White, sentiment, I saw the need to organize to protect that culture and protect that art. Because we’re constantly under critique. And there really isn’t a meaningful organization that I’ve seen to push back against that.
And, you know, artists kind of need something, you need to have some kind of entity to get people to organize around. Like one of the elements of what we do, is just getting people to collaborate. Like a lot of people have met each other through the White Art Collective that would have never otherwise, you know, been affiliated with one another. Because everybody’s got their own channel, they’ve got their own page on Bandcamp and whatever deviantART, wherever they might be posted. And there’s not necessarily anyone like an entity encouraging them to come together.
So yeah, I started this back in January of 2018 with just me and a couple friends. Like I built a very simple DIY website, which we’re working on updating. I really want to get that set up for that to be where people go to find out what’s going on with White Art Collective and also for artists to be able to log in there. And for it to actually facilitate the collaboration itself.
But yeah, so we’ve been building this up since January of 2018. Started out with just a handful of musicians, and I’ve been slowly building a rapport with all these different artists. Started American centric, I mean, still American centric. But I started getting people all across the euro sphere, like I said before. And now we do have a pretty good blend of people and perspectives from different places. Like, sorry go ahead.
Simon: No, you continue. I thought you stopped.
Jeff: Yeah, that’s, I was about to I guess. I think that pretty much sums up what we’re doing, what we’re about. So the kind of the main functions, like that mission statement is fairly high-level. So like I said, one of the things we’re facilitating is collaboration.
It’s also community building. Just so that you have people, friends, you know, we live in a fairly alienated time, just modernity in general. This whole kind of global era. And so artists are gonna float around and kind of struggle more than a lot of people, just anyway. So we’re here to support them on that front as well. But also to try to get them resources. It’s my job, that’s kind of part of the collaboration, but I’m constantly looking at, like I have a couple people in the queue I need to get back in touch with. One of them is a like a metal singer, you know, he sings to metal stuff.
And then I have people submitting music to me that are, they like created an entire metal song, but they don’t have any vocals, right? So, I’m constantly looking for ways to help people get the pieces they need to kind of make the full and complete piece. And we have quite a few shows too. Like, we want to feature people, because another part of it is I think a lot of our folks have been, because the art scene is so inherently anti-White, whether it’s the fine arts, whether it’s the music industry, Hollywood, the film industry, anywhere is very leftist! And so our perspective, especially of a White male, but just White people in general, and people of European descent in general, is very much pushed out of that.
So just having a place where you feature stuff from our perspective inspires people to create! And I can’t tell you, I’ve had quite a few people who just come to me and said:
“Thank you so much for doing this! It just it inspired me to want to do something!”
Like that in and of itself is a huge part of what we’re doing.
Simon: I mean, I think it’s really important. As we were preparing this stream, I mean, one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on is I think it’s fundamental that we bring the kind of political and cultural wings of the dissident Right together. We’ve got to be talking to each other. And, in fact, the question I’ve got on Entropy:
“Is politics downstream from culture?”
It obviously is. And in many respects what we need to be working towards, … Nick and I did a stream with Semiogue a few days ago, and we were talking about how do we go about reclaiming and re-energizing culture, music, arts, poetry. I mean, it’s the whole gamut of things that seem to be totally decadent in my opinion! They really lost it! In my program notes I mentioned that I haven’t actually bought new music. I’ve kind of bought old CDs. I’m still kind of pretty into it.
And I’ve been rebuying some of my post-punk bands, and the odd progressive thing. But. I don’t think I bought any new music since 1995. I haven’t been to the cinema since 1998. And I haven’t really watched any television since 2014, I think.
And I never go to, I go to lots of museums, but never to contemporary art museums. Because the whole, you know what is shoved at me through the mainstream media just turns me off completely! So I think that the work that you’re doing is really important. One question I wanted to ask you is, do the people that collaborate have to be overtly political? Is that part of it, or do you have a more free concept of what you’re trying to achieve?
Jeff: No we definitely have a very free concept. I think initially it just kind of inherently drew people who were more oriented towards that, because we’re kind of like rejuvenating this thing and not everybody had quite internalized all of the ideas to where they could just create without, you know, kind of unintentionally putting, or putting that in there, you know, more than you probably normally would.
But I think as we’ve been developing and as we’ve all kind of gotten that out of our system, we’ve started to attract more people who kind of come from an apolitical perspective. Which is exactly in my opinion what we want to do is, you know, like you said, and I agree with you. You and I had been discussing this a little bit, that we definitely need to be a united front, the political realm and the cultural realm. And what we’re doing as artists. But at the same time they are distinctly different things and they serve a different purpose.
So I want people to be making genuinely inspired art. And if they feel that they have to shoehorn in propaganda into that — not that I’m against propaganda, that’s an art in and of itself and we’ve discussed that and some panels and things with the White Art Collective.
Another one of the things we do is kind of address these concepts. But still, we’ve actually had a number of people recently, … And a guy actually messaged me as a visual artist, actually a New Zealander, and so I guess I forgot to say New Zealand earlier! And he said, he was telling me, he was like:
“I’m not overtly traditionalist, or nationalist, so I don’t know if this is something you’d be interested in.”
But he sent me his links to his stuff and I responded that no, I was like:
“No that’s exactly what we want! That’s great!”
Because it doesn’t need to be overtly that, it’s basically just that we’re genuinely expressing the ‘bio-spirit’ as Jason Kohne would put it, of our people. We just want our essence and our perspective to be represented in it. And I want people to freely express themselves
Simon: Yeah. I mean, that sounds great. Nick? Horus? You got anything to chip in here? Let’s make this a free-for-all! Let’s grill Jeff on where the White Art Collective are coming from.
Jeff: Bring it!
Horus: Well I had a question, I suppose it could go to anyone. Would you say that often when people decide, we as a movement, we as like nationalists, need art, you know, we need to produce and compete in the cultural realm, that it can often be overly self-conscious? And be not really enjoyable in the way that other art is? And therefore not really penetrate beyond those who are already politically committed to liking it. Have you ever encountered that?
Jeff: Yeah, I mean,
Horus: I’m sorry, I would just to add, I was a libertarian before and like there was a few groups, or poets, or whatever, and they were known as libertarians. And they were like, you know, there are our movement’s musicians. But it was a bit shit, you know. [chuckling] Because it was self-consciously saying:
“We need to make such a thing as libertarian art.”
Whereas like, Simon asked you Jeff that like, you don’t have to be overtly political. And I assume that’s, you know, that goes a long way to not having that problem.
Jeff: Yeah, exactly! I mean, like I said, I think starting out it was kind of that way a little bit but the I think it had to have and another important part of this too of what we’re doing is like artists need the opportunity to develop, you know, there was a time when like record labels, you know, back in the 90s 80s 70s, you know, back into the classic rock they would have bands that would have two, or three albums before anything really hit with the public and that’s just totally unheard of now, because it’s like if it doesn’t sell like you were out it is a product it is a commodity. And if it doesn’t move then you’re just you don’t exist anymore so that’s another thing we’re doing like that can’t business can’t drive the art world there needs to be the opportunity for artists to develop so that’s another thing we’re doing and to that like I said when we kind of started out, you know, myself and I think some other people too we kind of were a little more overt, you know, maybe we weren’t as maybe, maybe sometimes you be a little trihard this, you know, it just it’s part of the developmental process of eventually kind of honing and refining not only people’s individual craft. But I think just our the honing the overall movement in and I think we have I think we’ve gotten to that place now like I said that we are starting to attract more people and our artists who are already with us feel more comfortable just expressing themselves and not necessarily feeling like they have to try to intentionally put some kind of political message in there. And I think that’s where we’re gonna have the greatest amount of success because, you know, when you’re doing I think when you’re doing art right it’s just gonna feel people are gonna identify it’s only gonna like you said about the British humor, right? Like it’s a perspective well and I do like some British humor and it is different than American humor obviously, you know. But I enjoy it, because it’s not it’s we’re still fairly closely related so it’s relatable and but, you know, it comes from a clear perspective it’s not really meant for out-groups they’re not going to understand it, you know, so if you do your perspective right then the [25:02] people will identify with it and like it and I think the less that we try to put a message in there, the better it will probably be. But again that is separate from propaganda and I think propaganda is kind of an it’s an art in and of itself but when artists are just expressing themselves freely they should just do that just let go, you know, be yourself.
Horus: Ingenious propaganda can be something that you admire artistically even if it’s from someone evil.
Jeff: Yeah I mean, as we’ve probably all done I’ve certainly been studying the propaganda of communist pretty extensively over the last few years and it is something to behold how especially in film but music — but film is just so immersive that I think it’s some of the most effective propaganda, because — like — the subconscious mind, or the unconscious mind it almost feels like a lived experience so people they see these historical events and they feel like that that image of that historical event is more real to them than the abstract information and data that they gather from like a history book, or something, you know, so that’s they felt that event when they see it on film and the way that the kind of globalists and communist types and Marxist types the way that they crafted propaganda when it was subtle I mean, it is something to behold and it is evil but it is like it’s impressive you gota, you know, again I don’t like him but it’s you got a study it to understand like wow how effective it’s been. And I think that’s what people lean leaning to the right and the traditionalist and nationalist I think they haven’t taken that seriously they don’t take art seriously enough in how powerful it is.
Horus: That sense of something well worth study news well, because on the Communist side you also have what I mentioned before about the very self-consciously politically agitated art and when communists do that is corneas when I mean, what anyone else does it but they do also, as you say, have things that are what wholly immersive what kind of thing all kind of like films, or whatever you refer to that are examples of them doing that very well on the Communist side the Marxist side?
Jeff: Good question.
Horus: I mean, I think of Eisenstein.
Jeff: Yeah I’m thinking like I don’t know Schindler’s List alright, you know, any basic Eleni thing from World War Two and the power of that also is that there’s just the insane the just the quantity of World War Two and “Holocaust” films is so plentiful that that narrative is so deeply burned into people’s minds, you know, it that is really something incredible, you know, because let’s say if you compare that to the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, I and actually it’s fun there’s like a there’s a Wikipedia page for the “Holocaust” and there’s a Wikipedia page kind of for like Bolshevik films, or whatever and I mean, it’s not even close and then, of course, most of the Bolshevik films like they’re, you know, no one’s ever heard of them they’ve barely been translated to English, or other languages, you know, so it’s just not even comparable as far as how the narrative of that event has reached of the world.
Horus: Yeah I mean, chambers listen list alone is enormous impact human people who almost don’t even need to watch it and know they were I imagine those people who on the way to the cinema were already letting themselves be emotionally offense. But I didn’t know they’re gonna go see this, you know, they’d heard these reviews described them as powerful and so on, you know, any but and he said this is going to make me more righteous in some way see it’s incredible I mean, that’s marketing as well isn’t it?
Jeff: Yeah yeah that’s why there has to be there’s a whole mechanism and ecosystem as to what legitimizes those messages to like it’s the critics that’s a part of its the marketing all of those things kind of combined and that’s why I’m excited about what Nick is doing with vial is, because I’ve been saying thinking for a while and cuff set it on some podcast and things that we needed like a non-communist rolling stone, you know, something that’s like chic and hip and has like youthful energy in it that kind of captures that same kind of vibe but from our perspective and I’m not saying that vial is necessarily doing that, but it has elements of that I mean, it’s definitely it’s very aesthetic and it is chic and hip and I’m just saying, you know, it’s not quite ruling stone, or non-communist really [30:00] Rolling Stone is a mess, you know, its own thing over there, but that’s why I really like what dick and Lucy are doing, because I think it’s incredibly important I got really excited when I saw that they were doing T
Simon: That’s the perfect moment for Nick to come in really isn’t it and do you think Nick that there’s a some kind of crossover between what you’re doing and watch what Jeff and his collective are doing.
Unwashed: There’s a huge crossover I mean, I’ve already we hosted their mixtape last week and I think we’re both being interviewed by them soon and we’re gonna return the favor and cross-pollination is the best thing that we can do in the cultural side of things. I mean, it’s the best thing that you can do in the political wing as well but like I just said one inch at four for the serious and high earth collaboration, because that made it further than any of the stuff that they’ve done before I think it was a really big deal that the two people that were sort of separately respected had to come together to do something it felt like a nice leap forward and there’s been lots of these in 2020. I do want to talk about like we’d already touched on the fact that you don’t have to be like a tub-thumping nationalists in your lyrics to fit in this that’s not what we’re aiming for and I seem a lot of people won’t know this but like before I started the channel I’d actually written a whole album of songs and I wasn’t an ethno-nationalism dabao things and I’d started writing about them so that’s like an example of how yeah I wasn’t where I am now. But I still needed to write something that was like a rejection of everything that I was being fed by my crap leftist music scene so there must be tons and tons of people out there like that and what’s really interesting about some of the songs I’ve written is they’ve actually become a lot more pertinent since then like I did one about the Covington kids where when I wrote it I thought I was just honing in on these kids and the fact that they were demonized and they’d been highlighted for being White and privileged and stuff by actually looking back on it a year later I’m like oh that’s a song about White people so I don’t know the fact that so many artists will feel unwelcome in the current paradigm and they’ll have that desire in them to create art, because Europeans have that stronger than anyone else I think. They’re gonna want to create and that doesn’t mean that it’s going to have to be addressing what really happened around the 1930s no it’s just gonna be what’s in them and what they’re concerned about what the real thoughts are but it started happening, you know, I think that the White Art Collective is people that were so desperate to do this that they found each other I’ll gonna pass it back to Jeff to see if that’s true but most of the people actually started writing before discovering that this was a thing, because that’s what I’ve heard.
Jeff: Yeah, I think there’s kind of a mixture there I think everybody was already, you know, an artist that had done something to some extent but maybe they’d kind of put it away, because you kind of implicitly pick up on the fact that what you’re creating if you just naturally create something that’s an expression of your European people that it, you know, comes from that perspective it’s a distinct thing you already know that’s like not wanted in society. They’re trying for more diversity they don’t want any of that Hollywood is too White the music industry is too White supposedly right and so people just feel disincentivized if that’s a word, you know, to create so you well yeah, I think like for me I’ve been doing this I mean, I’ve been creating independently for like 20 years. So I I’d yeah it is I’ve basically for me yeah was just like a frustration of like there’s there is no thing that’s there is no organization, or entity that I can join that it’s gonna help me do what I need to do so I guess I’ll have to create it, you know, that’s just the kind of guy I am. And I think you’re correct that there were people there were artists out there who were kind of seeking something even if they didn’t know it and then when they came across us they’re like oh cool, you know, this is exactly what I kind of need I need a group of people who think more like I do that I can work with on this kind of stuff, because you just can’t be an artist in a vacuum. And if you were it would kind of suck.
Unwashed: Well what’s really wonderful about the White Art Collective is I’ve seen it already today anytime [35:00] that one of you guys is guesting on someone else’s podcast the chat fills up with your guys and they’re so supportive and so happy and people are like keen to pitch in and help one another and it’s markedly different from the music scene that I was used to where it was a bit false, because it was a hierarchy and a ladder which everyone was trying to climb and everyone’s really rivals with one another but can’t really say it out loud and obviously everyone’s doing their whoa cover to signaling the whole way along so everyone’s just lying all day every day anyway. But there’s a desperation within this network where if you’ve got, you know, one talent, or one ability and someone else needs it boom you’re together and you’re going to be helping each other for free, because you’re working towards something much bigger, whereas the leftist music scene that I came from it was nothing more than self aggrandizement it was just like how big can I make my platform what’s the biggest gig that I can get how many people can I get looking at me whereas what we got over here is authentic and driven by something else I love it!
Simon: Isn’t this a relative oh it seems to me being the old guy here. I don’t know how old Jeff is but I’m pushing 60. So I’ve been around around the park a few times. But back in my day there was a strong sense of community between musicians back in when I was playing in punk and post-punk bands back in Natyam we had the Nottingham musician’s collective and we helped how each other’s out with gear all the hands used to go and see each other all the time when we recorded out for a single I remember people helping us out blending as a van to get down to London I mean, what are the things that has happened certainly during my lifetime is this community sense and it’s the anti-White the anti-White campaign is being successful this community sense is really full and full of their party so I think it’s what Jeff is doing and what we’re all trying to do is recapture something that is really part of very recent memory I don’t know what you think about that?
Unwashed: I’d like to hop in on that one really quickly is the scene that you’re describing the people pitching in helping each other out supporting the other bands that does exist that. That was still there in that music scene that I was involved with the problem was that they were unified against an enemy that didn’t even exist they were so anti-racist and anti Brexit and anti gammon and all of that stuff and I seriously mean it every single gig that I went to before just going, you know, will screw all this I give up I need a new life had an orange man bad spiel in it every last one had a Trump rant, or some pro-choice rant, or whatever it become a monoculture! So they still pitched in and helped each other out but they also were continually talking about how much they despised more than half of the country. So that’s where the rock really is.
Horus: I remember in about 2003 I think the last song it’s a Reading Festival there was all the hands I saw maybe one maybe two at most made some little spiel on stage about I think it’s holy blare at a time from the Left though and it was cringe-worthy then but it was exceptional and now you’re saying that almost is you almost can’t not do it is that right?
Unwashed: Yeah man I went to a Folk Festival last summer and, you know, in my head that’s sort of me getting away from it all this is me reveling in tradition all traditional performers playing instruments that you barely see anymore and still orange man bad every single set every single set and I’m there going you guys don’t actually know what you’re doing you’re actually fighting our fight without even realizing it you might you might say like oh we need to help the refugees but you’re on a stage with your hurdy-gurdy, or whatever holding up European tradition you’re actually fighting I’ll fight and you don’t even know it.
Jeff: Yeah the I think what kind of to what we were talking about earlier what the mistake that they’re making is now everything is overtly political in the art that they do and so I think it’s driving out a lot of artists who are not necessarily even political at all and who are not even necessarily leaning in our direction. But I think that the art scene on their side is so terrible and toxic that we could start picking up people who actually lean more left in the spectrum better more sensible reasonable folk who just are so sick of everything being political, because it’s [40:00] art is not supposed to be that political you know, they’ve basically the they’re kind of the people who’ve pushed all of that into art they used like we talked about earlier they used to be very clever it used to be subtle, because they had to be and then when they kind of gained more power and they’ve been consolidating power and now everything’s just right in your face and they’re just like bragging all the time and every single film has a very obvious race-mixing agenda. And it’s just obnoxious and even a lot of non-White people are tired of that, because everyone knows that they know that there’s an agenda behind it so you can’t just sit there and enjoy the music you can’t just sit there and enjoy the film you, you know, that you’re being force-fed this ham-fisted message and it ruins the experience. And I think that’s something that we need to use to our advantage which is why we can’t turn around and do the same thing we don’t want to fight, you know, bad propaganda with bad propaganda ham-fisted garbage we want to make great truly inspired art that comes from our perspective and I think in doing that a lot of people on the other side are just gonna be like I like what those guys are doing over there I don’t agree with everything but they look like they’re having a good time and they’re not talking about orange man bad every five seconds and they’re not pushing this agenda. So I’m just gonna go see what they’re all about, you know, and from there I think we just start winning them over in other areas.
Unwashed: There’s a song that I’ve found literally within the last week which touches basically on what Jeff is talking about Harris by a band called Fiddler’s then it’s called too real and I’ll just read some lyrics if I can do that very quickly, because I think what they are is they’re not nationalists they’re not right-wingers but they are people who have in a left-wing music scene that have realized what the problem is and absolutely sick of it so they’re rebelling against like woke authoritarians, rather than being, you know, all the way over our side they are some frustrated lefties from the looks of it so the lyrics are well I’ve been thinking about things I can’t say, because everybody freaks out every single day. And if they weren’t so stupid they’d open their eyes the dudududud drugs man saved my life and so on, but like they’re just frustrated with local authoritarian intersectional leftism and they’ve given up on that and then we did put out an article on vile this week which pointed out that on Twitter if you do one of these parody accounts whether you’re taking a piss out of the write with Barry Stanton or, you know, brixi it means Brexit those kind of accounts, or you’re taking a piss out the Left with titania McGrath, or Godfrey elf wick the joke is always on the Left and the people that get it are always on the right no matter what the target is the Left is just a lull Cal that’s based on falsehood so it’s so easy to take the piss out of it without even being, you know, where we are.
Horus: For those of them who are just doing an automatic kind of way as well they just caught up in the idea that you basically you more, or less have to o’clock these political talking points they a lot of them probably can be appealed to right there just caught up in a kind of sad and weak way but they’re not, you know, they’re not doing out of malevolence as such it’s just I would say this applies to so many things there’s just like a leading cadre of like more evil malevolent types. But there’s a lot of people who like what Jeff was describing before like the people having become so overly political that they’re gonna turn around and go what else is on like what else can I watch, because this is just this is freezing me out almost but it does seem like the ideal time for a more other mode joyful I don’t know exactly what the right word with people just like something coming of its cellular art for its own sake once more, you know, like which should never have gone away but somehow has become submerged for them to turn trying to find that right now it seems like a great time, you know, it seems like a great time for that to happen so. But I think what our collective and vile like it seems very, very timely menos.
Unwashed: I think because, as you say, like all of the art the mainstream art it’s expected to virtue signal now like everyone knew exactly what was gonna happen with that Doctor Who series as soon as it was announced there was a woman it’s like well that’s not gonna be the only woke thing in there it’s gonna just be a whole series of White guilt. But that gives us the freedom to, as you say, make something that actually appears on the surface quite neutral and might even be neutral, you know, I think up our team is [45:00] essentially fighting to do things that we always used to like village fete and stuff like that it’s all quite quaint.
Horus: Your story especially Nick over the last years is this quite a strong emotional strain so we’re talking about like you’ve actually been shunned right for doing nothing wrong and there’s a lot of other people who are ready for some sort of emotional some sort of welcoming once again, you know, not always having to harsh, or antifa as they are not aesthetic but the harsh antifa facet, or don’t know what the word is. But I the harshness of the nasty left, you know, some people are gonna want something that’s absent from which that is absent, you know, they’re gonna want something it’s just enjoyable and pleasant and lovely in some ways, you know, and things like that I mean, vile isn’t particularly lovely, but a vile is very funny but, you know, like lovely meaty like. But I think of higher if not, you know, things that people are just gonna want loveliness for his own sake and, you know, humor for as I say I mean, good I’ve said this before. But I used to love a lot of left-wing comedians I was already on the right I would say buy you some oblong left-wing committee that especially think of Stewart Lee until 2010 when the Tories got back in government and they just all suddenly became political and I was like oh right this is I figure this out over a while. This is a thing they do wooden when Labour are in government they’re funny when the Tories in government there’s just warriors and they’re not funny anymore, you know, they think they forget about laughing for its own sake I forget about is making people laugh just uh you can’t only think that we want we do want satire and stuff as well but the automaticity with which the Left adopted that kind of strategy almost, or something I was just auto response was just ugly and dismal and I would welcome anything that could break that pattern.
Simon: I was just wondering Jeff when you were in the communes and everything were you left-leaning back then how long have you actually been a been a nationalist, or White centric.
Jeff: So yeah, like when I was younger I mean, I was like I would always say that I was like a left-leaning independent there was a period where I watched John Stewart and thought that that was funny, because they were taking the piss out of the George with bush neocon, you know, corporatism kind of vibe and I liked that. And then, you know, then we went through with the Obama years and I was like wait a second, you know, the anti-White part came out and I still don’t like the neo-cons, you know, so that was like the one side and now there’s the far-left who’s like the global communist faction you got the right which is the Republican types that are more the global capitalist faction and then so now people are realizing like oh you don’t have to like either these guys these are two distinctly different sets of groups that aren’t with us either of them. So I kind of went through that process and also just getting a little bit older and more mature, you know, people tend to start to lean a little bit more to the right become a little more conservative close ranks a little bit and I think it was also just seeing the it was fine when the idea was like hey let’s all just be nice to each other, you know, it was okay tolerate this other groups differences okay sure, you know, and I’m the kind of guy who’s always been interested in other cultures, because I’m just a I’m interested in culture in general. So it’s kind of fascinating that all these different ways that different people are but that never meant I was giving up my own culture I’m very much an American and my family on my dad’s sides been here for four hundred years, you know, I think that’s I feel like that’s plenty of time to develop a very distinct identity so and, you know, so when I felt that they were encroaching on that like. But it’s not okay to be White as like no that was not part of the deal so that all of that I don’t feel like I really changed that much like everything else went crazy to the Left is what how it feels to me.
Simon: Yeah, I think that’s quite similar to me if I look back to my musician days which is pretty much 1977 to 1995, 1996 um so it’s a while ago now. But I want really often used the term to refer to myself default leftist I was kind of seriously left when I was at university that kind of rebellious stage when I read Marx and I made all this angry post-punk music but it wasn’t really [50:00] it was default leftist it was left it was rebellion left it certainly wasn’t anti-White it seems to me that this and today actually I was in preparing preparation for this stream is an odd preparation I watched the documentary on YouTube which was 60 years of the Shadows which Cliff Richard for the shadows and just watching it was this was everything was automatically White back then. It didn’t really cross anybody’s mind to be anything else this is typically British culture but looking at their autumn, you know, Brian May Pete Townsend the various Beatles talking about how much the shadows had influenced them and then me moving up into the 70s glam rock punk and even making this post-punk tape mix for Nick it’s only since I’ve stopped music that this anti-White agenda, or that I’ve become aware of its really kicked into kind of hyper mode. I certainly wasn’t aware of it when I was younger although as default leftist I imagine. This is a bit like you.
Jeff: Yeah and I mean, I grew up in a very rural Midwest ER and environment might, you know, my dad is the very blue-collar so I kind of was inherently born into this pretty right weaning right-leaning perspective, you know, we were all about collecting guns working on cars, you know, all that kind of stuff driving tractors around.
Simon: Having BBQs.
Jeff: Yeah BBQs [laughter] but burgers love them hamburgers. But yeah, I it was a very gradual process and it was like you said back then the like, you know, I really started kind of coming of age in the early 90s I started really paying attention to music and I realized I had a knack for it and an interest in it and I started playing and the music of the early 90s which I do think there was a legitimately inspired thing going on there with, you know, grunge movement and a lot of that kind of thing I’m a big fan of Radiohead the I know those guys politics are not the greatest. But I still like, you know, a lot of their music you can’t deny that they’re incredibly talented artists so I and, of course, I think Radiohead is super British right they’re super White that’s in same way with bands like a tool I’m a big fan of tool and all of this stuff was still very inherently White. It was nihilistic it was maybe not going in a the greatest direction, you know, obviously Nirvana to it stuff like that, but it still was very much an expression I think of people of European descent. And then that all kind of started to shift in the mid 90s things got more corporate I think also had a lot to do with the ownership of like record labels and just media in general became very centralized actually in the United States there was a Telecommunications Act of 1996 to where we used to have, you know, certain regulations you could only own somebody rate so many radio stations TV stations newspapers, etc., in a given market and they started breaking down all those regulations to where basically you could monopolize and then this company Clear Channel came in and just bought up all these radio stations and everything became very formatted you’ve probably seen those like Supercuts where they show like all these different local quote-unquote TV stations who are all literally reading the exact same script from, you know, that’s obviously been handed down from high on from the corporate down the ladder. And I think that’s played a huge part in who owns the media like who owns this is something I’ve found in working, you know, with what I’m doing with wack is like curation is an incredibly important important part of culture and art and someone is deciding what gets made and who gets played and it’s as important what is played as what isn’t played and that kind of goes back to my point about it’s clear that the people who get to decide who are very much anti-White those people who get to decide what gets put out there and are kind of the bottlenecks for mass distribution they clearly don’t want the kind of stuff I would make, or that Nick would make or, you know, anybody in the wider collective would make they don’t want that kind of stuff even if it’s they might not even always be aware of it doesn’t you don’t have to have some, you know, they don’t have to get like a handed down [55:00] memo although, at this point, they are they are that overt. But there was a time when they weren’t that over it was just kind of understood but yeah, I think that’s a huge part of like you’re saying it there was a point where it was still it was still an expression of us and then it kind of gradually changed and I just thrown that in there, because I think it has a lot to do with the media ownership was consolidated and now we’re in the situation where there’s just a small handful of companies that own all of this so they decide luckily they’re being their delegate amaizing themselves but they’re still incredibly powerful and I still a lot of people kind of fall for the trick, you know,
Simon: Yeah I mean, I come from a generation when Indy really when Indy wasn’t a music category when it was really independent when people really did make their own music and many of them, you know, became successful as on the basis of this I was hoping with the internet, you know, I’m kind of interesting culture I just find it, or interested in music I just find so little very, very inspiring these days and I’m very disappointed that the internet without organizations like the White Art Collective the internet hasn’t yes there’s lots of bands out there doing things getting their own small followings but relatively few people have broken through to the mainstream from the internet and I think. This is a real disappointment in and in many work ways what you’re saying about curating things and forming a collective and turning something like the White out collective whack as you like to call it turning whack into a vanguard that breaks down this barrier because, you know, we’ve got to get out in front of more people we’ve got to get on system onto the mainstream in many respects.
Jeff: Yeah for sure and it’s kind of that was another one of the reasons that I did I started the White Art Collective is that I recognize that it’s all about organization these people are able to decide what gets played and they get to shape culture by curating what’s played and what isn’t played what films get produced and what films don’t get produced, or even like how they are critiqued now we see that Rotten Tomatoes and sites like that, or clearly kind of yeah I don’t want to make any definitive statements but it seems like there’s a big difference between audience scores which there sometimes can be in critic scores. But there seems to be some Borg hivemind thing going on with critics on certain films seemingly the ones that are the most kind of politically driven but. But yeah, that’s kind of what we’re up against and I recognized that you have to get organized if you want to do anything about it, you know, you need a mechanism and something I’ve been thinking a lot about is that you need a distribution mechanism and you need an ecosystem of people doing various things like critique there’s the production itself you need the people kind of promoting it and talking about it and hyping it up like vile, you know, and things of that nature so that you can even begin to compete like we know that there’s a lot of people who are really frustrated with what’s going on but right now they’re not really seeing a legitimate alternative. And I think that’s the vacuum that we need to fill I see this as a huge opportunity and it’s not all about making money, of course, it has to be about making great art first. But I do think there’s an opportunity for that too, because there’s just so many people who are so tired everything all the stuff that’s being made with the orange man bad message constantly caulking them over the head there’s a huge there’s a huge vacuum to be filled. And it’s just a matter of us getting organized in a meaningful way as a united front with organizations like vile wack and also in the political realm with what you guys are doing.
Unwashed: I’ll give you a White pill on that note though, is that everyone who’s within our community is so keen to get on board with anything that’s pushed out that’s art, that’s ours! Like let’s do a quick one in chat – who’s heard “Keep in Mind” by “Xurious and Hiraeth” – you’re gonna get a sea of ones here. But if I was to say:
“Right let’s pick a decent song from the mainstream, from the last five years that we all know and we all like and we all agree on.”
We probably won’t be able to do it! Because (a) we’ve ducked out the mainstream, but (be) there’s nothing good comes through there. But we unify around this stuff. So as soon as someone pumps out something that’s from our gang we’re all really proud of it and desperate to share it and support it straight away. So I think that gives us a huge, huge advantage!
Jeff: Yeah, I agree there. And that was, and is, an excellent collaboration between Xurious and Hiraeth, and very exciting. When I first heard that I got a little behind-the-scenes. I was like “that’s really good” and I had a really good feeling about it. And yeah, I’m so happy that that has had the legs that it has. And there’s no reason that, I mean, it’s of the production value and the quality, talent-wise, that people couldn’t hear that. And it absolutely should be competing on the same level with anything that’s on top 40 radio.
But it’s better, because it has real heart in it. And I agree it is a White pill! And that’s just one of many to come. And I think too that that one is kind of more accessible, because it is kind of, somewhat in the style of things what is acceptable and hip right now in the music world. And what I want to do is build a bridge from that kind of thing into, … Because the thing is, there’s other incredibly brilliant stuff that Hiraeth, for instance, is doing. Some of its a little more experimental. Like things you would have heard, you know, it’s been a long time since you’ve heard like experimental kind of quote-unquote “weird music” become popular. But, like I say, in the 90s there was a lot of interesting wild stuff that I don’t think would have ever made it through now, in the music industry.
And like, she did a collaboration, another one, with a guy called “Dystopia Park”. And it’s called “Origin”, or “Origins” and it’s really cool! And I mean, I want to build a bridge with kind of like, the stuff that’s more accessible to the more interesting stuff that I think is going to, … That’s kind of what changes culture right? Our culture, everything’s been kind of watered down a little bit. So like, it’ll be interesting to see, you know, as hopefully we can get more people listening to the stuff that’s a little bit more out there, that maybe that will start to cultivate just more thought and kind of a more difference in culture in general. It seems like it’s become very mono, I don’t know, just very kind of myopic, I guess.
Unwashed: I’d like to quickly hop back to what you were saying about how the culture was clearly a White culture and that’s just sort of somehow been erased. The bands that you were mentioning. Grunge, name all the grunge artists? You’re not gonna find a black drummer in there are you? And “Tool” is another great example.
And I wrote a piece for Vile not too long ago that was all about —because I think Horus might have some insight into this as well — it was all about the Reading Festival and how when I went 50 Cent got booked as a second headliner. And we all knew exactly why that was wrong! Is because you’re stepping on our turf essentially! This is some part of culture that we do not approve of! And it wasn’t a strictly like racist “we hate hip-hop thing”, because there were other artists there who were black hip-hop artists who were, you know, like it was fine.
But 50 Cent, specifically — it was like you have wasted this slot on us, and we are really not happy about it! Because, you know, that this doesn’t represent us! We know that this doesn’t represent us! Even 50 Cent up there knows, because there’s a shower of bottles hitting him in the face! But now, Stormzy could be booked as the headliner without anyone batting an eyelid. That’s gone now! It’s not a White rock festival anymore. And you could watch it happen over the course of a decade. And I think 50 Cent getting bottled was the last truly great Reading Festival moment!
Jeff: What year was that?
Horus: Yeah like it’s true what you’re saying though, that there was plenty of hip hop elements at least accepted within metal, and, you know, alternative rock. Like you could have Biohazard and loads of other groups who had like sort of metal music, but a rap singer. And you’d have all these people listening to hip-hop, you know, like, but maybe not at the festival, but it was part of their repertoire, or whatever But that was something different.
I mean, because you had the same thing with dance music as well. That metallers, you know, if you were in the metal scene in the 90s and early 2000s, you weren’t allowed to like dance music really, right? But you could like “The Prodigy” [chuckling] and a couple of other groups. There was like a selection there. I don’t know what point I’m making here, but it’s exactly true what you said Nick.
Unwashed: That all got broken down with Pendulum, interestingly. Then it was okay for you to like both.
Horus: Who were alright in the first 5 minutes of their career, they were quite good. Then they just went awful!
Unwashed: I don’t think we’re gonna delve into the artistic integrity of Pendulum today [loud laughter], but I know what you mean. Another feature of Reading, was that when the dance tent started being expanded, I remember all the rock and metallers — who were there for the lineup, not to get pissed and just because their friends were going – the people actually liked Reading, because it was Reading were really not happy about it! They were like “we’re losing it!”. And they were right, because if you look at the poster now, it’s like, there’s some rock — none of it has any balls! Yeah, tons of grime, tons of dance — it’s gone!
Horus: So blending everything together. Jeff, I have a question. I assume you’re sort of like broadly in touch with the political side of things. But in case, like what I’m sure, most people have experienced this, that I’m like, you know, I don’t make any art — I do obviously listen to music and stuff — but I’m strongly politically focused. And I think Nick and Simon would agree as well, that this year there’s been a distinct optimism that has been lacking for well I dunno, I’ve never experienced before, in terms of what we can achieve politically. Like it may even be possible to convert, more or less, millions of people to our way of thinking. Do you find any corresponding sense of optimism on the cultural side? Is it the same, or is there anything equivalent to that?
Jeff: Yeah, I mean, I think in the spheres I’m in I think people are very optimistic about the cultural side. We’re kind of up and coming because, you know, I think the political element is kind of the immediate and more obvious thing that has developed. And that’s been around the political element of nationalism. And the cultural and art side of it has been lacking. I think partially just because things weren’t getting dire enough to where it was drawing kind of artistically minded people. Who I do think kind of lean naturally to the Left. That doesn’t mean that they’re – I don’t mean Left like necessarily Marxist, or communist – but just kind of more intuitive and kind of “feeling”, rather than “thinking”.
So I think, there’s an optimism there, because it is starting to shift. Like there’s kind of a natural process to all of this to where they, they’ve pushed too far. Like we were talking earlier. Like there was this long trajectory of shift to the far Left since, you know, probably after World War Two, and really gaining steam in the 1960s. And then it’s just been this non-stop, just bulldozer, to the most absurd ideas. Just everything goes, laissez faire, normalization of pedophilia, and all of these things that people couldn’t even imagine even 10, or 15 years ago! And I think that stuff being shoehorned into a lot of the art is really just waking people up. And just causing a natural kind of seismic shift back to a more traditional way of thinking, in the sense that it’s like:
“Look this stuff is a little bit too far, things were working better when we had families, and men and women were getting along.”
You know, it doesn’t have to be extreme, you don’t have to have “Third Reich” anything. It’s just just basic common sense that those things work better. We’ve been doing those things for thousands of years! And the nation is a the most obvious and functional type of organization.
And perhaps there will be some kind of greater, I think “confederacy”, I think of it that way as far as, you know, the alliances of European nations. But I think nationalism is still ultimately just the obvious way to organize. And there’s just a shift back to that in a common-sense way.
But yeah, back to the main question is that I think there definitely is an optimism, because we’re seeing, like I said, we’re seeing more bands and stuff contacting us. And who are just kind of like “yeah why not”, I mean, “White Art Collective”! We’ve kind of broken down that barrier of them thinking that, … I picked that name specifically, because it is a little bit “triggering” on a couple of fronts. And I’m not necessarily one who goes out trying to “trigger” people. [70:01] But obviously, because the “White” part. But also to kind of get people back into the concept of “collectivism” not belonging to the Left, you know? Any organization is a “collective”, and that doesn’t mean it has a Leftist bent necessarily at all. A family is a collective, you know.
But I think there’s a huge amount of optimism! And now that people are starting to see that what we can, the results of coming together like this. Just like the Xurious and Hiraeth song, what’s possible. What we’re capable of doing with like no resources other than our creativity and willingness to work together! Imagine when we actually start putting some money behind this. And people get more on board with what’s happening, and more and more people, and more of a critical mass.
We are going to be making our own films and things. We actually had a “Spooky Short Film Contest” in the fall, that didn’t get as much attention as it should have. But I mean, people weren’t quite there. We’re still growing and developing. But we’re doing it again this year, and we’re gonna continue to do stuff like that. And again I’m super optimistic about it! And I think more and more people are gonna come to us wanting to be part of that, to have fun and just to make great art!
Horus: Will that be for Halloween?
Jeff: Yeah, we did that for Halloween, yeah. So if anybody out there is interested, yeah, we’re gonna have a “Spooky Short Film Contest” for Halloween. And last year we had a $1,000 cash prize. I haven’t announced anything on that yet, but we’ll definitely at least have a $1,000 cash prize. We’ll look into the other stuff as well.
Horus: Or a year’s supply of pumpkins maybe? [laughter]
Simon: Okay. I just want to give a shout out to some of the White Art Collective people I’ve seen in the chat. I’ve seen Hiraeth, I’m not sure how to pronounce it properly, Hiraeth Music. I think Jack White was in there earlier. What’s the, I can’t find his name, what was the French guy “Iodore” or something like that, I’ve seen him there.
Jeff: Yeah, I think it’s “Hayard”? I think that’s like the English, or I like to say it with a French accent, like “Heyodd”, you know! [chuckling]
Simon: Someone else I want to give a big shout out to, and it’s a shame, perhaps we ought to stream sometime mate. But his name now is Edmond Marta. But in another life, he’s Champion Puffer. And he’s a kind of techno acid house DJ. I can’t remember the name of his radio station. But he’s definitely on our side. And it’s something, … Puffer, you need to be writing stuff! You need to get on board bringing your culture, ‘cos I know, you know, we’ve exchanged experiences back from those days.
Because I used to go down to a studio where – I don’t know if, you know, this label Nick – “Rising High” were based. And I used to know Casper Pound and Pete Smith. I was in the studio, when “The Shaman” were in there one time. Back in those days! So for me, that kind of period of music, it was a reliving of punk in many respects. I know you and I disagree with this. But for me, this was the last shout of rock and roll. It was the kind of acid house days.
Unwashed: Well I don’t think that it ever dies. I think that you see inklings of it everywhere. Because we discussed the other day that is just a natural thing that teenage boys go through, this rebellion thing. And it often comes out as art.
So I was saying, like I saw the same thing going on in dubstep, which will sound ridiculous to people older than me! But all of these scenes have like a kernel of truth in them, and then they get ridiculous and comical, and descend into self parody. But yeah, there is always something real there.
I love that in this chat today, everyone is basically on side with the idea of a lot of rave music is ours! Because months ago, I remember contending with this as an issue going, :
“Well it’s made by White people, for White people, and White people enjoy it.”
There’s a certain angle that is:
“You have to be on drugs to enjoy it!”
You don’t! Loads of people listen to it when they’re not on drugs.
And I like the idea of us claiming these scenes. I have a theory that drum and bass specifically, like most of the “jungleists” are based, because it’s just unignorable in those clubs. If you go to a club with less White people, it’s more dangerous. And they just know that. So that’s kind of why I was using drum and bass in those Groyper videos, because I was like, :
“I got an inkling here, this is not the most woke multi-culti scene, we can have this one.”
And everyone today, was saying like “happy hardcore”, everyone loves happy hardcore. And that’s specifically British! Like, French people don’t get it, German people don’t get it, Dutch people certainly don’t get it. They’ve all got their own strands of hardcore electronic music, which I don’t understand! I cannot get onboard with Dutch hardcore at all! I think is just horrendous noise! But “happy hardcore” is ours. So I mean, it busts this whole sort of degeneracy argument, which I think we’re all fed up of. Like, we all love folk music, but yeah, I think we’re gonna need more than that. So I like that we’ve got a pro-rave section in the chat going on today.
Horus: May I think you’re spot on trying to reclaim these scenes I was gonna say something before that I think there’s some sort of nostalgia rowing angle we can use as well like, because I would see nostalgia on the Left at least for like leftists who a big Institute overi doctrinaire no starter is considered generally a kind of fascistic thing right, or a reactionary, or fascistic thing whereas we don’t really have any fear of nostalgia I think like the idea has been put about by the Left over the last 70, or years that anything that pines for the past is not only reactionary and fascistic, but also idiocy idiocy, because they believe generally in the sort of Whiggish theory of history that things are always proceeding towards the ever better future whereas we don’t really that’s not really part of our thinking I think technology advances but, you know. A lot of things are lost, you know, and have to be refound, or never be found and the Left I think over the 20th century tried to convince us and have it has worked on a lot of people that it’s an illusion to think that things were ever better but as Simon said you haven’t bought any music any new music since like the mid 90s I’m pretty much saying maybe up to the late 90s and I am convinced that’s caused by an objective change music actually became crap by the millennium like pop music became crap it was like a few nuggets left. I don’t think I’ve bought any music made since 2010 anyway and I and the there was genuine brilliance still in the 90s I mean, a lot of my favorite music is from the first off the 90s electronic music in my case the Future Sound of London, or a fixed win orbital and stuff like that and again what we said Nick but basically these were White things they were mostly a lot of them were lefties even thickness, or most of them, but it was White stuff it was White music made, you know, made by YV been enjoyed by White people even I mentioned at all they were sort of a dub group right so, you know, this Caribbean thing even so it was White guys doing it and White people listened to it and there is something in there and you couldn’t awaken, or you can use the nostalgia people have for when music was still good to awaken some degree of racial consciousness I believe us I think you’re absolutely strategically spot on doing that.
Unwashed: Nostalgia has made like making these vile episodes ten times easier, because weird I know the simon doesn’t like me using the phrase counterculture, because I need you can expand on why I shouldn’t be using that phrase.
Simon: I will do.
Unwashed: Cool but we are pushing against something that’s been repressed and like mainstream culture is progressive so it’s all about change and what’s new what’s cutting-edge what’s the latest thing and everyone’s sick of that now, so really all we’ve had to do is go back over the last few decades of like, you know, clips of edgy Brits giving interviews like Johnny Rotten, or just I don’t know something from father Ted it’s all nostalgia and we just build it up and go hey remember this was better than it is now wasn’t it now you’ve got the last leg you don’t have any comedy anymore washed-out is easy.
Horus: We are saying quite clearly it was better at times in the past things are things now are shit it’s not just that every generation thinks that’s a lie whereas things now are crapper than they were 20 years ago in sounds of culture.
Unwashed: And again there’s people that hate all rap and they’re entitled to that opinion but storm Z is an objectively bad rapper.
Horus: I mean, I don’t like it less than I did five years ago I’ve become more of a sort of racialist sits in but like 2pac was a good rap our [80:00] storm Z is not, you know, maybe some people just chuckle of all of rap outs, or whatever but, you know, that isn’t they still an example of things in decline even on the backside, you know,
Jeff: Yeah I just want to say that I agree that the on the electronic music thing on that front I do think that’s overwhelmingly a White thing first of all you have to have electricity for it to work [loud laughter] just kidding okay that’s the first thing, but also we actually have a show called dance squared we have a DJ live DJ set on Saturday nights and he does like techno which house all these genres that I don’t underst Jones a bass some of them I know and, you know, some of them delve deeply into areas that I’m not familiar with vaporwave he does a lot of vaporwave but uh that and he’s definitely our guy DJ boxcar and it’s funny, because we’ve had a little interaction with kind of the vaporwave scene he kind of they were all, you know, when he started becoming a little bit more woke, so to speak, a lot of these people, of course, as we’ve been discussing we’re very much on the side of the spectrum and giving him a hard time and they’ve kind of tagged me in some of these discussions they’ve had on Twitter and it didn’t go well for them I think they were trying to tag me to be like oh he’s associating with this White Art Collective these evil people and really they just they’re like wait a second maybe I shouldn’t tag them, because they’re just giving them more attention and we got some follows from that little exchange and I was like just kind of doing some basic talking points of like which would you be really opposed to a black art collective, or a jewish art collective, you know, and it’s a very reasonable question to ask but it is good to see that we have more people and he’s kind of even got his own group of electronic artists that he’s been working with for a while called the modernity leave and so yeah we that’s definitely much definitely in our sphere I think and I love electronic music I’ve, you know, years ago been out to the clubs and stuff I’m not that old it wasn’t that long ago but, you know, is I definitely enjoy that kind of thing. And I think it’s important that kind of — what you guys were talking about with the pasts anything from the past seemingly being antiquated I think is a good word is they always want it to feel like that’s all over the future is always looking forward everything has to be more technologically advanced, etc. But I think we need to find a way to kind of to create that aesthetic that blends modern technology and kind of futurism and I know their existing bodies have thought on this like I think RKO futurism and this kind of thing that kind of blend that past aesthetic and the value with the future kind of technology and I think it’ll be interesting to see what kind of aesthetics we come up with, in doing that kind of thing and one other thing I was just curious if you guys were fans of Daft Punk at all.
Horus: [words unclear]
Unwashed: Okay our second one was better I think is homework the first one and discovery the second discovery had all the singles yeah, so I thought I’m an encyclopedia over here.
Jeff: I like I thought random access memories was really good I thought that was a really good album personally.
Unwashed: It was I waited ages before listening to that one, because it was really overhyped I like to avoid things like that for about six to eight months, because. I don’t think you get a clear picture it’s really good that album yeah I’ll give you that.
Horus: I think what was the Saturday night oh that’s a jeff: On our show?
Horus: Yeah I just wanna check out.
Jeff: Yeah, so Saturday nights dance squared on our DLive it’s after it’s usually about tits it’s gonna be late really late for you guys it’s like 10:00 p.m. Eastern so it’d be what like a.m. You guys time so that’s probably hard but wait the replays we put up on BitChute but uh and with our main flagship show we actually have like seven, or eight shows now our main show that the first one I started with Saturday night live stream which is every Saturday at 9 p.m. On our DLive and that’s where we like we kind of bring our musicians in and like feature a lot of new music like we’re usually featuring a new at least a couple new artists and a lot of new songs like pretty much every week okay.
Simon: And that’s DLive White Art Collective I mean, if you if any of you follow any of us you’ll find that, or certainly I follow Jeff I follow the White Art Collectives so just look at who I follow and you can follow them and find find out what’s going on. I just want to do before we move on I want to do the one [85:01] and only Entropy that were the one on a superchat that we’ve got so far hint hint nudge nudge.
Unwashed: I’m Paul saying it wasn’t up earlier Simon wait.
Simon: I think it’s back up now Michael yeah, so you roll on roll on up I’ll read them out. And the one we’ve got is from The Thin Red Line great boat bloke who tends uh sends us ten US dollars and says:
“Great stream more creators should seal for the White Art Collective that’s what we’re doing it is very important that we get a pro-White media company so we can start retaking our culture which start to raise funds for this project project.”
I quite agree any comments on this any kind of fundraising initiatives in the future Jeff.
Jeff: Yeah I’m definitely for that 100 percent I think that so kind of what I envision the White Art Collective is a kind of owner of an institution so I definitely encourage people to create more business-oriented like media type companies and I also think we probably are gonna have to build our own platforms too to do that kind of thing so also any like programmers out there and people who have that kind of talent are gonna be very much needed for that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, we’ve been making a little bit of money on DLive and I’m, you know, trying to figure out how we’re gonna reinvest that back in. But I 100% encourage people who are interested in ya creating like a company for that kind of thing envisioning something like that III had an idea for kind of a kind of like an Amazon like you site for our folk who, you know, it kind of you could get your music there you could get movies there and that kind of thing we definitely need to figure out how we’re gonna monetize that, because another one of the elements of what I’m doing with the White our collective I kind of want to function a little bit as a representative slash kind of a union for artists, because it’s so easy for artists to not get paid and a lot of people just expect all of this stuff for free now, you know, they’re like oh well I’ll just download that song oh we’ll all just download, or just watch it on YouTube, or BitChute and also films they’ll just download them, you know whatever and that’s a big problem for us that people are kind of conditioned into that mindset, because it’s not free for us to make and we’re gonna have to make money if we want to compete with Hollywood if we want to compete with the music industry and we’re gonna need money for projects for the fine arts and, you know, those things are often funded by tax dollars and things so it’s like we’re probably not getting tax dollars anytime soon so where that money’s gonna we’re gonna have to come up with that money somewhere so we need to get clever about how we’re gonna do that and I think to like I don’t expect we’re gonna be having any big daddy, you know, people philanthropist throwing their money at us anytime soon and, or at the very least. I don’t think we should wait around for that I think that’s something I’ve seen for a while but people like, you know what we need just that billionaire who’s gonna give us a bunch of money and.z I don’t think that it hasn’t happened yet I’ve talked to people who, you know, told me hey I’m talking to somebody who might, you know, be interested in what you guys are doing none of that ever came to fruition I think it’s a lot more likely that we’re gonna have to get clever with crowdfunding and people are just gonna have to kind of put there’s a like you said earlier like a lot of people are like well how do I help, you know, doing stuff and volunteering for things. And if someone actually throws out just like what you were saying with that website and the transcriptions and that kind of stuff definitely putting forward your actual Labour putting your shoulder into it and your time and your energy that is a big help also just promoting stuff is a big help and also investing in it, you know, vote with your dollars, so to speak, and actually buy stuff like we got a store we got a White our collective store we got music books magazines shirts, you know, we’re gonna start doing more merchandise I think people like physical objects in this very detached alienated world so we’re gonna probably start doing some more stuff like that, but it is definitely important that we get very serious about how we’re gonna fund these things, because I’m also like I’m already yet I have to work a full-time job to live I’m already at full-time capacity, or I mean, I’m at capacity of what I can do and I often takes me a week, or two to respond to people, you know, that I kind of lose a little bit of that momentum and people’s excitement of getting in contact me with which I hate. But I just I only have so much time so until we figure out how to formalize and professionalize and monetize, you know, we’re going to continue to struggle so we have to get that figured out.
Unwashed: And using the word serious there we have to get serious is really important, because I mean, it’s a big [90:01] problem over on this side is that people ask specious of anyone that asks for money, or even accept money there’s all this charge of grift chiming going on I mean, it’s worth reminding people that, at the end of the day, we’re up against the central banking system the guys that own and print all of the money so it’s a ridiculous thing to say people say to people they shouldn’t be asking for money, but also on top of that if you look at the Left take someone like Amanda Palmer who was a sort of front-runner of crowd funding they get full support there no one Chuck’s anyone down for crowdfunding their own projects no one’s biting at each other’s ankles for this stuff even though they’re the Communists so the lefties like they know how to support each other in our and that’s why they’re there absolutely trouncing the culture war obviously they’ve got the institutional power as well. But there’s just none of this mistrust and sniping and it’s so ridiculous to me when, you know, we don’t own the money that’s the other side.
Simon: On the subject of money we’ve got a second superchat the wonderful Penguins in the diorama sends 25 US dollars and says:
So that’s the second one thanks very much I want to go back to a point of contention that you and I have you mention it there, the word counterculture you and I disagree on this counterculture means against culture and I’m pretty convinced that back in the 60s the whole counter it mean it’s all disheveled people very much like those that they all look like the merely viral guys they had that kind of aesthetic back in the 60s and it’s not alternative culture it’s against culture and another point you made in one of our Telegram groups was Mick Jones, (((tiny hat))) Mike Jones could he have been responsible for some of the leftist message within that within the clash within the.z And if you look into punk both in Britain in the UK you look back at lots of the count country culture groups of the sixties and it all was very cool people like Lou Reed there’s a lot of tiny hat influence there and I kind of wonder if it wasn’t deliberately subversive which is its difficult to find a better word, because it’s become cool. But I think we need to divorce ourselves from it.
Horus: Did he I think so I know Mick Jones definitely.
Simon: Did he?
Horus: I think so.
Simon: I know Mike Jones definitely did and lost lots of the others I’m sure I reckon Malcolm McLaren was a tiny hat as well and horus: McLaren was McLaren has partial jewish ancestry yeah.
Unwashed: The that I mean, the Mick Jones one I only brought it up to you, because people keep tracking that one at me I’m fairly positive about the clash and they go well, you know, about Mick Jones.
Simon: I’m a big fan.
Unwashed: Yeah I mean, as far as I’m concerned this doesn’t affect anything. But then you look at him penning White riot and you just think okay let’s think about this for a second the one I’ve had to hire earth about this the one that really made me meet sit up and go oh god was this record label called Fat Wreck chords which is run by Fat Mike of NOFX who is of the Levantine tribe and it’s very interesting, because I was super into this label in my teens and they were aggressively anti-war very, very much against the invasion of Iraq and all of that stuff but very anti-racist i.e., anti-White. And when you just pick apart the ideology and what records are being released it’s like okay this was supposed to be edgy and counterculture and that ultimately it’s pushing all the same stuff ultimately it’s pushing less White people. And that was run by some Hebrew folks. So that was quite something to notice and that’s why I was sort of chucking out the thing about the clash with regards the counterculture thing though I do think the mainstream culture is, you know, horribly degenerate and multicultural and everything that.
Simon: It is now but it wasn’t back up just watch this shit this shadows documentary remember it wasn’t back in those days.
Unwashed: Hmm no I just mean I thought that the phrase counterculture means as he said against culture but the culture that we have now is everything that we want to push against I mean, it’s not our culture that’s what we’re actually fighting for our culture.
Simon: It’s bullshit.
Unwashed: What’s being supplied to us.
Simon: Yes I think so [95:01]
Unwashed: I’ll certainly give you that and.z But I think what we are doing is its like I still consider it kicking against that so I call it counter cultural but you’re saying it’s not even culture so how can you counter it which is a pretty good argument.
Jeff: That’s an interesting discussion for sure I’ve thought about that as well I mean, when I think counter culture I think Woodstock that’s like one of the first thing that comes to my mind is something like that and I do think we have to be careful and we’re having a lot of these kind of discussions in within the White Art Collective, of course, about, you know, kind of the language we use and how we frame things, because we have to try to shift the paradigm so I think those instances where well not just kind of shift it we need to have a massive shift and help facilitate that so I think that in some ways we can kind of like take terms back and redefine them and then other things, you know, maybe we should kind of stay away from counterculture to me kind of I kind of think of the term all right I was never a fan of that term I know that was a more American thing, but it did definitely went across the pond as well to some extent and it I was always thinking like what other kind of concepts are I’ve ever been like considered alternative, or kind of been labeled that way and one of them was like alternative lifestyle of the gays, you know, like that that was one thing and now it’s a big no-no to say it that way now it’s just completely accepted in mainstream and the other thing was alternative music and, of course, that also became popular in mainstream and then it lost the alternative people still some radio stations still say alternative and like what is that that what does that mean that’s been mainstream for like over twenty years but uh I think it is interesting to think about those things and consider it personally I wouldn’t use the term counterculture just, because yeah it does it does have a little bit of the leftist taint on it.
Simon: One of the things that we’re talking about in this stream that Nick and I did with semia go there a couple of weeks ago I can’t remember how semi ago actually phrased it but we ought to be out be creating what was it Nick we ought to be creating art that produces the kind of people we wants isn’t once want in our society was that was that his point?
Unwashed: It was pretty down closer yeah we should be creating art that produces the type of people that we want in society. I think he had it down to a snappy.
Simon: Yeah he does he very he’s very snappy isn’t he’s got everything off pat.
Simon: And this kind of lettuce and he was talking about flamenco and traditional music and I kind of had a road to Damascus moment throughout their stream I’ll throw out there again but and it comes back to my counterculture point that since the fifties the whole promotion of teenage rebellion it kind of overtook rock and roll and that was essentially of subversive whereas if you look at and I think this forms part of our movement I think we need to forget the teenage rebellion music. I don’t think it’s going to come back I think the industry has taken it over even though the industry introduces the industry now controls it and he was talking in the context of flamenco and it got got me thinking about much more incorporating young people into a multi-generational art community and encouraging young people to go through an apprenticeship and perhaps going through initiation right that that gives them the right as in flamenco to form part of the musical art whatever community and I think teen music is probably a thing of the past I know I’m coming out on a limb there, but part of the ethos of our movement is bringing the generations back together what better way to do it with is than with, in art and music.
Unwashed: I thought there were great conclusions from that discussion considering we had no idea where we were going and actually I’ve sat on those sort of conclusions from the end of that one since we chatted about it. And I think that you’re right that’s the way that we rebel is by reintroducing multi-generational sort of contact and then teaching like a father teaching this on how to play an instrument because, as you say, all of our subcultures all of our counterculture has been based on the opposite of that [100:00] it’s been based on rejecting your father and not learning from them so hearing Sammy agog talk about flamenco was fascinating, because it’s like yes that’s exactly what we want and yeah this teenage thing has got so out of control I’m sure you guys watched the debacle between Harry and those two the very nearly viral guys like they’re still teenagers and they’re nearly 40 and that’s what we need to reject I think.
Jeff: Yeah, I think I’ve thought a lot about the multi-generational element of that and how it relates to art and culture and I think you’re very much onto something there as far as there’s always been this appeal to the trends always following the teenage perspective and what kids think is cool, so to speak, and I personally think cool is like this Judeo African largely corporate-controlled concept where you have people jumping from one foot to the other following these fads really mostly for the purposes of just making money and maximizing it and then once that fad isn’t cool anymore then they move on to the next thing and everybody forgets about that last thing and then they come around in a cycle you’ll get made fun of for, you know, wearing a certain type of clothing, or whatever. But then it becomes cool again oh that whole thing is totally absurd to me and I think we have to break out of that mentality and I do see the right-wing does the dissident Right kind of falls into that somewhat I called it right-wing hipsterism too where you kind of create this very, very niche subculture out of a desire to want to belong so you create all this cryptic language and this aesthetic and people dress a certain way and people have certain types of haircuts and but and then they get comfortable being in that little segmented community, because that’s a large part of what they were seeking but what we need to do is appeal to a broader group of people and not just not just young men who are frustrated in angsty, you know, and that’s so that’s something I’ve thought a lot about we try to have a really good balance of masculine and feminine energy that’s a lot of what I think about when I’m curating and I also think about, you know, some stuff that is mostly overwhelmingly being family-friendly not in a ham-fisted hallmark kind of way but just to where things are, you know, there’s more of a value of purity and innocence you don’t, you know, to kind of remove that cynicism and nihilism and obviously, you know, kind of anything that’s too much an adult subject for children, of course, there’s a time and a place for that. But I think a lot of what’s happened definitely to American society and it seems like the West in general just this kind of business big corporations this hyper monopoly leading everything and everyone thinks in marketing terms so they’re constantly trying to break down groups of people into their segments as consumers it’s like let’s break down here’s let’s market this at teen kids so they’re gonna live in their own world and culture by itself over here listening to this and they’re gonna have a hard time relating to their parents who are they’re having this marketed at them they listen to this kind of music they watch these kind of shows and read these magazines and you see this huge gap where we’re having people having a really hard time relating to each other, you know, men and women can’t maintain the relationships and parents and kids don’t understand each other, you know, there was a long time I felt a huge gap between my parents like they lived a completely different in a completely different world than I did, you know. And. This is a really modern thing the world is not supposed to change this fast but it is so we have to figure out how to adapt to that and.z I don’t think that’s even just, you know, communist, or Marxist, or whatever it’s also just what the modern world there’s just an explosion of technology and things that’s changed the way we live and think so fast that we’re still kind of our heads are still spending. But yeah, just to that point is just we I think we really have to be mindful of exactly what Simon was saying there is that we need to intentionally while still making great art and culture we need to try to do things that bring people back together multi-generationally men and women, etc., in a healthy positive way families and to one more point on that I actually wrote a booklet called how to organize a traditional dance which is over on White date net it’s also on Amazon if you want a physical copy, or you can get a digital, but it’s also on White people’s press but so the idea there is like, you know, we actually speaking of the culture and things I kind of line out like, you know, here’s what the things you need to think about organizing an event like this you gotta [105:01] have you gotta have good music you got to know what the Dancing’s gonna be someone’s got to know how to do the dance, you know, it’s seemingly kind of obvious things but trying to give the people the tools to create something like that so that you can bring people back together and one of the elements of that is making sure that it’s multi-generational friendly.
Simon: Okay and one more another superchat from the lovely Lucy Brown who sends ten US dollars you’re your good friend Lucy brown and collaborator on viol fantastic work there Lucy:
“If someone has 50,000 subscribers and each subscriber paid one pound a month they’d have freedom to create and make a living. Thoughts?”
That would be heaven it was my immediate response anybody else.
Unwashed: It does look a little bit ridiculous when you look at the numbers that we’re chucking in, because like I’m getting used to howdy live works and I’m getting great contributions but it’s from like a handful of people. And I think it’s a really important point that one pound a month and then a whole bunch of us could not have to worry about working ever again!
Simon: I mean, the two contributions so far on super chance The Thin Red Line and in a diorama there’s various other. But I have what six, seven, eight, nine possibly regular contributors, you know, I know it’s free people are happy to listen but, you know, a couple of dollars every now and again. I think all of us put in hours and hours of effort into this what you see on these streams you don’t know how much work goes in and in the background it’s continual yeah we need more help.
Horus: But money as well right. But if you do like kick in a little contribution you’re gonna get more of what you enjoy, you know, the money will generally go to war as your village up to you’re donating to them if you donate to the things that you value you’re gonna generally increase the Malby that’s produced and I hope, you know, the quality of this helmet you’re gonna get more of it. I mean, if I could work full-time like I know that this certain core of people you love my videos like, you know, every time I release anyone immediately they’re like oh wait what’s this which is brilliant in and of itself like — it’s really one who feels like that if you contribute if you quit here and there I’ll do more and you love that feeling even more often I don’t really want to be on record saying like give us money but like I do agree with the general idea that like it’s a good right there it helps the movement, you know, just, you know, we’re moving with a great shortage of cash.
Unwashed: Well there’s two elements to what you say in there one was like I remember the week when you got your first donation, because I think I got mine a similar time and we were both on this stream together and we were both absolutely buzzing and it’s not enough money to like put you on easy street it doesn’t mean your money worries are out the window it literally just gives you that boost from someone who’s what I’m doing.
Horus: Does someone someone message me asking me how can I donate, you know, well if you insist, you know, and then yeah I felt what I heard someone actually wants someone telling me make more like this what you’re doing is good make more of it and that’s good that’s very encouraging.
Unwashed: And vote we all know that a vote is a total waste of time and you have to vote with your with your dollar so a percentage of any nationalist income should probably be going to nationalism right if you’re not doing anything else.
Jeff: A tithe, if you will, know it just kidding no but like yeah this goes to what we were saying earlier and I totally agreed that the thing is and this isn’t anybody’s fault but just in the Internet age everyone’s had the ability to go out and create their own show everybody can basically be their own TV station, you know, on their YouTube channel and it’s awesome but it’s also, you know, that gets everyone kind of competing to the bottom in a way for how willing, they are how much they’re were willing to give away for free I think we content creators are going to have to kind of form a collective interest here that we can’t just hand it all away for free forever if we want this to get off the ground we’re going to have to monetize and I think at some point we’ll probably I see people have some good models, you know, redeye says I think an effective model towards like this part is out here this powered is behind this and maybe at some point we might even get in May this is probably not gonna be popular but we might have to get a little bit more hard about it, than that and be like look if you want this [110:00] content you got to pay for it you can’t tell me that most people who watch this stuff couldn’t pay five to ten dollars a month E, or even if it was less than that two, or three bucks a month you telling me that you couldn’t sacrifice, or that, or sacrifice something you bought at the store, or whatever to support this, because that little bit if you had those 50,000 people giving just a little bit it would be massive and the other part of that, is that I also the donation model is just too inconsistent to build institutions off of we’ve been getting a decent amount of little, you know, again like Nick said it’s not like I’m over here like a rolling like Scrooge McDuck in money and coins, or whatever not even close but it’s like okay we had no budget now we have a little bit of a budget that’s something that’s, you know, it’s going in the right direction clearly more people are getting more comfortable with the idea maybe it’s the structure of DLive. But I don’t want to get dependent on that either, because we’ve already had a kind of a phantom copyright strike that I think was probably a targeted thing over there so it was just a six hour time out but we can’t depend on these platforms owned by other people we need to figure that out fundamentally for ourselves from the ground up and build our own structures and infrastructure and the only way to do that is if we get consistent funding so we’ll have to get off of just donation based funding if we really want to move forward.
Unwashed: You make a really important point about the about the sort of rush to the bottom there, because that destroyed my old industry when I started DJing a set of technics and a mixer and that set me back about grand and then within two, or three years you could get a controller for one hundred and fifty quid and literally anyone could do it and the wages just tanked, because everyone was going oh well you don’t need to pay me I’ll just do it and this goes for music across the board it’s not really it’s not a problem that’s unique to us as right-wing musicians but art across the board is completely devalued. So yeah, it’s just busting into people’s heads the idea yeah you can’t get something for nothing I’m sure the four of us are all in the same boat where it’s like yeah this took man hours to do and we with people looking at it saying it should be free there’s no leg to stand on there.
Horus: I would say to those who are principally opposed to donations and stuff who think it’s corrupting whether whoever I’ve said this once before but make your case explicit like right out your case and send it and, you know, publicize it to everyone and say what is it that you dread, or your pose, or you find disgusting about people being funded, because that will help us, you know, but maybe there’s some sense in there, you know, like there are some dumbasses you just well are they some people’s just see anything that involves money is jewish, or like, or they just see it as light as soon as you start learning money you’ll become corrupt, or you will start only serving those who donate yourself but can someone just make that cake, because then I’ll begin to understand, you know what’s the sensible side of that opposition what’s the, because it might be something we can learn from it as well, you know, because there will be there will be ways of funding they probably do spoil a movement, you know. But if we just suddenly it’s like Haim Saban, or someone, or like George Soros just suddenly came in and say apart from, you know, we go over a suspicion of it like why is he suddenly funding us it probably would be to ruin us and that that there can be corrupting influences of money. But I would just say, you know, I think we all agree that some great degree of funding is this well not everyone but we here, you know, we fallen low people do agree that some greater degree of funding is needed okay.
Simon: I’m gonna get in here before Jeff, or anybody else does, because I don’t want this tree to finish on shilling just as a point of principle and we’re, you know, we got six minutes to go I’m sorry Jeff if you had something to say on that. But. I mean, let’s move it back to, because it essentially we are activists and we do this, or I certainly do this out of love and, because I think it’s important is we’re making important contributions so on that note what are the immediate aims of objectives of the White Art Collective first Jeff and Vile Media second.
Jeff: Well our goals in the near term, or to continue to bring artists together so that they can collaborate so that they have a community of like-minded people and so that they can feed off of that creative energy and it inspires people who either were creating before and we’re never able to find a home, or perhaps people who never have really created and have always maybe had a creative penchant but never did it [115:02], because they were just they didn’t see the incentive they’re like yeah no one wants to hear what I have to say, you know, they sense that so we want to keep doing that and we want to keep trying to professionalize what we’re doing and kind of formalize it and that’s kind of a tricky situation to do that and it’s kind of we’re doing it very organically I think we’re doing it in the right way the same way that we would create a piece of art, you know, we’re seeing what works and I listen to people especially I talked to the core whack pack as we call it every day we’re talking about stuff we’re talking about our what our plans are for the future we’re working on quite a few shows that we’re doing we’ve got one we’re really excited about called our culture we had chimeras on there recently which was really a big gift for us and he had a lot of fascinating things to talk about so one of our goals is where we’re doing exactly this to what we’re doing on this show is that we’re trying to build a bridge out into the community and to across the pond across the euro sphere across different factions of thought also from the cultural side to the political side and eventually I hope we’ll build a bridge to like a more economic wing where people are more focused on, you know how do we make ourselves independent financially, you know, not that no more shilling. But yeah, just, you know, these are all important areas that I think we need to think about and yeah we’re gonna keep doing big projects like I said we’re gonna do the spooky short film contest and one of these days we’re going to do a whack fest we’re going to have a real in real life big festival and we’re gonna invite all of our friends and allies from all around the world to come and join us and we’re gonna have live music and we’re gonna have people’s oral poetry and paintings and films and it’s gonna be awesome so that’s a long-term goal I wanted to maybe do it this year in a small version but we, you know, this whole pandemic thing kind of put a kibosh on that. But yeah, we’re just going to keep our shoulder to the plow keep doing what we’re doing. And if anybody is interested in getting in contact any artists, or allies, or just any comments in general contact that White our collective comm and I’m on Twitter Gab our DLive channels where we stream and also our replays around BitChute thank you guys for having me so much I appreciate it’s great to finally get to speak with all of you it’s been a pleasure.
Simon: Fantastic before we move on to Nick I just want we’ve got a few more superchats. So let’s get them done penguins in a diorama another $25 thank you very, very much. And he says:
“Entropy works. Drinks all round.”
Picking gas 1972, three US dollars:
“Contribution with love from the wilderness.”
Thank you very much mate.
Aldous Asghar 5gb pounds:
“It seems to me that large amounts of parents seem to stop passing on the culture in a meaningful way what can we do to reverse this at least is true for me and I’m 29.”
Well I think we’ve discussed this already what I mean, we’re working at it I think we need to restructure the way we look at art and personally here on the right we need to think more intergenerationally and to close off Nick anything any round rounding off comments and summarizing comments.
Unwashed: That’s been a very enjoyable stream I think that there needs to be more of this more focus on this cultural side I think it needs a real real kick up the ass and vile is really just a way of venting frustration like I know Horus and Geoff’s focused on we need to return to sort of loveliness I’m really fueled by anger above all else so if there’s something that’s seriously pissed you off about our modern world then get the rage on the page and send it through to our contact form at file media don’t code it UK quickly with regards to lockdown like I do think if this hadn’t happened then we’d be well on the way to having events and doing stuff I don’t know that I’d be throwing gigs by this point but we’d Elise be in the pub and it did its such a shame it feels like it’s such a roadblock but we’ve all had to deal with here. But I think when it if it finally gets loosened then we’re gonna be so raring to go. So I’m really excited for when I get to have human contact with people again but this has been wonderful we should do it again.
Simon: Quick final thought Horus.
Horus: Doing great work and I’m gonna start paying more attention to what [120:00] collective, because I’m not too well-versed yet. So I’m looking forward to listen to the Saturday night show you mentioned Jeff I love vile every week especially on its based on Nathan body which I think was classic well not based on. But I mean, partly inspired well yeah. And if you want another playlist I’ve got one in mind there may be other consent through as an article as well.
Unwashed: Do it! Absolutely! Yes all any and all submissions are great, because because, you know, if I run out of submissions and I to write something and that’s an effort.
Simon: Okay yeah well thanks everyone for being here many thanks for Jeff Jeff for being here I think it’s been really interesting I think it’s the start of a beautiful friendship there are many other people on the White Hawk collective who I mean, touch with as I said, before the political wings and the cultural wings need to come in to come together we’re all in this together and yeah we need to be communicating with each other and we need to be united. I think this is the start of it is where it’s not the start of it but. This is a another step along the path and we’re going to do lots more in the future thanks Jeff thanks Nick. Thanks Horus for being here, and thank you to the audience. And we also we’ll see you next week. Have a wonderful night and look after yourselves.
Unwashed: Heil wack pack.
* Total words = 17,193
* Total images = 2
* Total A4 pages = xx
Click to download a PDF of this post (x.x MB):
Version 3: Jun 17, 2020. 15 more minutes (60 – 75 mins) proofed by Dawn. Transcript fully proofed = 35/121 mins.
Version 2: May 24, 2020. Added See Also links.
Version 1:: May 20, 2020 — Published post. Transcript fully proofed = 20/121 mins.