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Horus – Discussing the ‘Russian Pogroms’ with Andrew Joyce – Jan 20, 2021 — Transcript

admin — Tue, 09 Feb 2021 08:00:16 +0000

[The Occidental Observer (TOO) contributor and scholar Andrew Joyce on the “jewish problem/question“, has a fascinating discussion with Horus on the so-called “pogroms” against jews in Russia and how they were greatly exaggerated, and often outright fabrications. This propaganda served jewish interests through generating sympathy for the flooding of the West with jewish-Russian immigrants, with disastrous results.

— KATANA]

Horus

Discussing the ‘Russian Pogroms’

with Andrew Joyce

Jan 20, 2021

Click here for the video:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/NwijxJcZzOY2/

Published on Jan 20, 2021

Bitchute Description

Discussing the ‘Russian pogroms’ with Andrew Joyce

First published at 17:49 UTC on January 20th, 2021.

Andrew Joyce and I discuss the so-called pogroms that occurred in the western Russian Empire in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, especially the events in Kishinev (Chisinau) in 1903 and 1905, the wave of westward Jewish migration occurring at the same time and the consequences of that migration.

Dr Joyce’s series of essays that sparked my interest in this matter:
https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/05/08/revisiting-the-19th-century-russian-pogroms-part-1-russias-jewish-question/
https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/05/11/myth-and-the-russian-pogroms-part-2-inventing-atrocities/
https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/05/13/myth-and-the-russian-pogroms-part-3-the-jewish-role/

A few Jewish perspectives on the same events:
https://news.stanford.edu/press-releases/2018/04/23/separating-fact-myth-1903-anti-jewish-riot/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-a-small-pogrom-in-russia-changed-the-course-of-history/
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/kishinev-moldova
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-kishinev-massacre-judaic-treasures

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_____________

TRANSCRIPT

(49:51 mins)

Horus: Thanks for joining me Dr Joyce. And we’re gonna talk about the Kishinev so-called “pogrom”, or riot, depending on how you describe it. And this conversation is particularly triggered by this article that you wrote, or an essay that you wrote, which was one of one of the first things you did on Occidental Observer. And you’d read various books about the events in Kishinev, which is now called Chisinau, I think it’s in Moldova now. Used to be in the Russian Empire when these when these riots happened.

[Map of Pale of Settlement and Kishinev (click image to enlarge)]

And you particularly based your critique of the prevailing view of that, of the history of those events, on the work of John Doyle Klier, who is not a particularly famous academic. But he seems a more honest and serious one than some of the people who write about this event.

I’ve been just doing some reading around it, just in articles that are easily available. One recent writer is Steven Zipperstein*. Have you read his work?

[*Steven J. Zipperstein (born 1950) is the Daniel E. Koshland Professor in Jewish Culture and History at Stanford University.]

Andrew Joyce: Yeah.

Horus: And he wrote a book I believe it’s just called “Pogrom”. But I mean, based partly on what Klier said you would dispute whether it deserves the title of a “pogrom” at all. Is that correct?

Andrew Joyce: Yeah. And that applies for most of the so-called “pogroms” that happened in the Russian Empire towards the end of the 19th century.

My studies in jewish issues began very, very basically with the “Holocaust”. Because that’s what everyone’s introduced to really at the beginning when they go to school, whether it’s in the United Kingdom, whether it’s in Ireland, whether it’s across Europe, or the United States. That’s your first introduction to the jews. The jews as victims of what you’re told is the most extravagant and most awful and most demonic genocide ever perpetrated. So it began there.

And it was only much later that I started to sort of snoop around into other corners of jewish history. One of which, of course, was the pogroms, which is presented in a lot of texts as a kind of precursor, or predecessor, to the “Holocaust”. So it sparked my interest, and I read widely on it.

And the first series of essays that I did on the pogroms, the myth of the Russian pogroms, sort of charted in a way my exploration through that historiography.

Now you mentioned that John Doyle Klier is not a well-known individual, in other words, the public will never have heard of him. And this is one of the problems that we have. A lot of people — and I’ve interacted with so-called normies and Leftists, and what have you, on Twitter at times, or social media, or even in real life — and they all think that they know the history. They all think that they know the history of the “Holocaust”. They all think they know the history of the jews, or at least the rough outlines of it and how it makes sense to them. And always and everywhere that involves a heavy dose of victimhood.

But they actually haven’t read that much of the actual scholarship. And there is a sizable element within the mainstream scholarship that is very revealing! And which in a way is kind of revisionist, or quasi revisionist. And John Doyle Klier’s work performs that function absolutely, when it comes to the pogroms.

For example, if I was to walk down the street and start telling people that the pogroms were a myth invented by the jews, or if I was to write that probably — and post that through people’s letter boxes, and what have you — you’d be liable to some kind of speech legislation I’m sure but the fact remains that that is the truth! And the fact remains that that has been verified without controversy, and to an extent that is not debatable in the work of John Doyle Klier, and people like him.

People who went to the original archives who possessed the necessary language skills, and research skills, to go into the archives and pull out all of the original documents and try and see how they matched up. And try and find what actually happened in the Russian Empire and the Pale of Settlement in Ukraine, around the period 1880s to about 1910, when various of these riots actually took place.

And John Doyle Klier’s work, I’ll never forget reading him. In particular his 2005 book “Russians, Jews, and the Pogroms of 1881-1882”, which really laid the groundwork for my understanding of what I’ve later discovered happened in Kishinev. I just remember being just stunned at reading certain sentences within that text! Especially when he said that claims that the pogroms had taken place should be treated, … And this is his wording:

“With extreme caution.”

Because to cast doubt upon these jewish victimhood narratives is not something that we’re used to. And even today if someone was to come along and say that you should treat, for example, the “Holocaust” narratives, or certain aspects of them, with “extreme caution” you would be looked at as somewhere between a lunatic and a criminal! So you can imagine my reaction on seeing that.

Again, it’s a niche text. It’s difficult to get your hands on. It’s very expensive to buy. And not many people have read it. And unfortunately that that allows certain preconceptions and certain myths to be perpetuated.

And jews in much of their historiography have ignored Klier’s findings and just continued to write their own narratives about what happened in Kishinev, or what happened in certain of the other towns and cities in the Russian Empire. And just simply allege that these events were the irrational results of bigoted peasants manipulated by government officials, who then undertook to commit wholesale massacres against the jews. To bludgeon women with hammers, and axes, and to throw living babies onto fires!

I mean, these are the kind of stories that were coming out, along with women having their breasts hacked off, etc., etc. I mean, the most obscene and caricatured kind of violence imaginable! Which does find it’s echoes in certain of the exposed frauds of the “Holocaust”. I’m thinking of Jerzy Kozinski’s novel “The Painted Bird”, which book for a long time was presented as a kind of semi-autobiographical novel, in which the violence in it is just so obscene, and quasi pornographic, that really one should have known that this was a total and sick fantasy! But in any case all of that is as prefigured in the Russian pogroms.

Horus: Jerzy Konzinski, it turns out, was actually protected by ethnic Poles during the war, I think, rather than persecuted. Well, I suppose he was in hiding, but yeah.

And this is the story of, well there’s a much, much longer historical narrative of essentially, as you pointed out in the article, about these pogroms, or these riots. There’s a much longer narrative of which this, the “Holocaust”, and many other events through the centuries, especially in European countries, are portrayed as like just these eruptions, these irrational incidents of just anti-semitic hate!

More recently they’ve started to describe this in terms of a “virus”. Like anti-semitism is a virus that just is sort of endemic in European civilization, and it erupts in certain episodes. Typically just triggered by some lie, like what they call the “blood libel”. What I found looking at, … Which also constitutes a slander against our whole civilization, I would always emphasize that as well. But what I found looking over some of the jewish sources.

One was an interview with Zipperstein, another was from the Jewish Virtual Library, another was from the Times of Israel. The consensus narrative among jewish sources at the moment seems to be that 49 people were murdered during this so-called pogrom. Hundreds of people were injured. Thousands were de-housed. And it was all triggered off by just the blood libel. Which I think you said also some gentile professors going on with the same. David Dutton was one, wasn’t it? Go along with the same kind of interpretation.

Andrew Joyce: Yeah.

Horus: I mean, from what you’ve seen those numbers of people killed are not borne out, right?

[08:45]

Andrew Joyce: No. I mean, we have a problem of sources, first of all. And where these numbers are derived from. And one of the problems is that a lot of the jewish historical work that’s been carried out, has been based on newspaper reports, either from within Russia, or which were transmitted eventually to the West. And as Klier has very clearly demonstrated these reports were either full of exaggeration, or by Klier demonstrating that certain travel patterns by the journalists involved, were simply impossible. That they were just wholesale inventions!

On top of that we have official investigations that were carried out by members of the British embassy, for example, who were sent across to conduct an investigation into these so-called pogroms in the Russian Empire, and to bring back at least some kind of information so that certain diplomatic efforts could be put in place. Now this kind of outreach work has some kind of pedigree within the British government.

Now there’s a great book, very interesting book, called “The Rise of Modern Jewish Politics” by an academic called, CS Monaco, which I would certainly recommend to anyone. And it basically gets into the question of when did jewish politics become international? Because we know that there were sort of jewish elite groups in Germany and France, going back to medieval times, and earlier, etc., etc.

But when did sort of international jewish cooperation really begin to accelerate? And Monaco pinpoints it around the time of the 1840s, when you have the Damascus Affair in 1840. The Damascus Affair being the allegation that, I think it was 15, no, 13 jewish leaders of the jewish community in Damascus had been involved in some way in the murder of a Christian monk. So it was, for all intents and purposes, like a kind of a blood libel accusation. And I’m not going to get into the ins and outs and details of that here, because it’s actually quite a protracted tale. And I just encourage people to look into it in their own time, the Damascus Affair.

[11:00]

But, because that was ongoing and, because of the growth of the British Empire, certain jewish cliques within the British Empire got Moses Montefiore, who was part of the Anglo-jewish cousinhood, to go across as a diplomat to Syria, to go to Damascus and intervene on behalf of the jews there. And this is the beginning of sort of large-scale government interactions by jewish elites to protect, or overlook, the situation of jews in other lands.

So, fast forward 50, 60 years when news starts emerging that there are pogroms ongoing in the Russian Empire. Delegations are sent once again. And they’re not jewish delegations, this is the crucial difference. They send a couple of Brits. I think one was a Scotsman. And these individuals go out and investigate what’s happening with a view to giving the British government a clear-sighted opinion on what exactly was going on.

And those reports were unanimous in saying that the entire thing had been exaggerated. That the numbers were ridiculous. That were perhaps there were being 50, or 60 murders claimed, only one verified murder could be confirmed. That whereas whole villages had been said to have been burned to the ground, perhaps one hut managed to lose it’s roof. So just the grossest of exaggerations were being discovered.

But only really with Klier do we find that there’s an emphasis on the reports of the latter, the delegates, the ambassadors, and the diplomats, rather than the newspaper reports. Which as Klier pointed out were being compiled dubiously by correspondence from the jewish world. Which were then transmitted to a rabbi called Yitzhak Wolfe in Prussia. Who then sort of gathered them all up and passed them on to people like Lucian Wolfe. I think it was Lucian Wolfe at The Times [newspaper]. He was also involved in quote-unquote “exposing The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”

Horus: And was jewish himself, right?

Andrew Joyce: Yeah. Basically Klier was able to demonstrate the genealogy of this fraud, in terms of tracing it back to its origins. Klier never denied that some riots had taken place. Although he did say that the context of these particular riots deserved a lot of attention. We’ll probably get into that in a minute. But yes, the idea that there were these really brutal and bloody, and irrational, massacres over the blood libel, is a total illusion!

Horus: And basically I mean, a lie! I mean, it seems to me anyway, that there are clear reasons which, well I’ve read your essay, I’ve not managed to read Klier’s book yet. But I mean, in your essay you lay out clear reasons [chuckling] why these things happen. There’s no need to, as some writers do — obviously people who are basically, who think it’s their duty to fall in line with a pro-jewish narrative — I think, there’s no need for them to look for ridiculously simplistic, or just, I don’t know, fanciful explanations like, …

I mean, the blood libel thing is supposed to be an ever present since many centuries back, right? So what I mean, why on earth would that be the explanation, you know, in a particular time? Why would that ever be a trigger? I mean, are they saying that it’s something, … I’m musing here. I mean, this is not necessary, you can’t speak for other people’s mistakes obviously.

But it seems to me that one would only resort to something as sort of simplistic, and kind of blase, as blaming the blood libel, if one was determined to ignore any causes that admitted any fault on the part of any jews. I mean, do you think that’s roughly, right?

[15:06]

Andrew Joyce: Yeah. I mean, when it comes to the blood libel it’s certainly a tool that’s been used as much by the jews as it has been by non-jews. My own perspective on the blood libels shaped predominantly by the medieval stories, in which it was always clear to me that whereas there might be a real groundswell of underlying resentment towards jews for socio-economic reasons, the blood libel could provide a way of lighting a match, that would basically, you know, finally, set the spark of a kind of a riot, or an action against the jews that would kind of release a lot of this pressure that had been building up. So it was a tool.

But there’s no denying that modern historiography produced by jews is always keen to try and tie dissatisfaction with jews, or antagonism involving jews, back to the irrational. And the ultimate in the irrational in jewish eyes is the blood libels. So wherever an accusation like this can be found, all antagonisms are basically attributed to it, even though that’s not the case.

I mean, when you look at Kishinev you have the, Kishinev just prior to the riots that occurred there, and they were modest riots, they weren’t severe. But they were a riots. The question is:

“Well, why did it happen?”

Well it wasn’t a blood libel. I mean, the context there speaks for itself. Between 1860 and 1897 the jewish proportion of the population rose from about 20 percent to 45 percent. That’s a population explosion! In no time at all. And that feeling of being swamped, or surrounded by jews, all of whom you already had a very, very substantial control and certain monopolies within the city. That’s devastating to the other populations that are there.

I mean, even Edward Judge who wrote the book “Easter in Kishinev: Anatomy of a Pogrom” which is one of the first books that was written on kishinev, and which actually is sympathetic to the jews. Even Judge wrote that over 80 percent of the merchants were jews. And that the grain trade — which is one of the cities like that, was one of its main industries — was almost entirely in jewish hands. And judge writes that, I’ll just quote from him:

“This circumstance not only increased jewish influence and visibility, it also added to the concerns of those who feared that the province’s economy, especially in the cities, was coming increasingly under jewish control.”

So there’s a sense of threat there. And then he goes on to say:

“In economic terms the jews were even more influential and their numbers would indicate. The majority of Kishinev’s commercial, financial, industrial, enterprises, including three-fourths of the city’s factories, were in jewish hands. Jewish-owned businesses included four mills, wineries, tobacco processing plants, credit loan agencies, trading companies, and the like. The skilled trades especially sewing, tailoring, shoe making, and cabinet making, were likewise dominated by the jews.”

In other words, if you wanted a job you were probably going to go to a jew. If you needed money you were going to have to go to a jew. If you required services you were going to be reliant on the jews. I mean, this is a suffocation of your life and a total dependence on a people that you probably correctly view as unremittingly hostile towards you! So, there is a tinder box there just waiting for a match to come along and strike it.

Horus: Yeah. One thing that intrigues me about the general narrative, not only in this instance but in many places and times of irrational persecution, is that, … I mean, you gave an example there from Judge who wrote a broadly pro-jewish book but still tries to address the causes. Nothing about him doing that in any way condones any crimes against jews.

And yet most scholars would still feel that they can’t go, I mean, increasingly so at present I think would increase, would feel that they can’t go where he went, you know, they can’t even list just material reasons, or reasons that could trigger off anger at jews. I mean, there’s an obvious case there for sort of an ethnic pushback against the sort of jewish stranglehold, if we call it that, over that town that makes it understandable why people would want to push back. That still doesn’t condone any sort of violent crimes against them. It just means getting organized. The native people of that region would have a reason to organize.

So it intrigues me that even though most of us would agree that none of that is grounds for crimes, jewish historians generally seem to still want to swerve away from acknowledging — and pro-jewish gentile historians as well — want to swerve away from acknowledging those material reasons. Which are very illuminating! Like it’s illuminating just to know the ethnic, I don’t know what the term is, the ethnographic situation, right?

But again, and again we find with so many historical events, not only this one, that nevertheless we have to swerve away to a position of complete exculpation of the jews! And, do you find that?

[20:20]

Andrew Joyce: Yeah. Look, to put it in the most basic terms, it is, and always has been, in jewish interest to push the narrative, or the theory that prejudice itself is something that is self-generated. I in an article I wrote a few months ago looking at the merits and inadequacies of middle minority theory and explaining the jews, I pointed to the very good comments actually by a jewish Marxist, strangely enough, Edna Bonacich. She was one of the founders of middleman minority theory. And she said that:

“Look, all through sociology, and history, and politics, and psychology, you’re basically maligned and ostracized if you suggest that prejudice even against middlemen minorities — who can basically engage in socially, and politically, and economically, antagonistic behaviors — that if you imply that prejudice is in any way other than self-generated, you’ll be ostracized.”

But what she was saying is that it’s very, very clear that antagonism is being created in these situations by the presence of two different populations, both of whom have antagonistic, or competing goals, and ambitions, and interests. And you’re right in what you’re saying that we’re not implying that the violence is an answer, or anything else. We’re simply saying that:

“Let’s be honest about the real causes of friction here.”

Which is something that was also mentioned by Hilaire Belloc in his 1922 book “The jews”. He’s simply saying:

“Look, it is clear that anti-semitism is simply a social friction. And we need to understand and be honest about the causes of this social friction.”

But jews don’t want that, because when jews say that prejudice is self-generated, then it’s a White problem. It’s something that Whites need to sort themselves out. And the way that jews have always postulated as the solution there is for Whites just to shut up and just accept things how they are. In the best case scenario, that’s what they’re supposed to do. Just shut up and accept things how they are! Because to complain about it is simply to be prejudiced!

But clearly that’s leaving much unsaid, and it never addresses the fundamental problems that are creating conflict in the first place. Because you can stop people from talking about something. But you can’t stop them from feeling really annoyed about the realities of the situation facing them.

So yes, in the vast majority of jewish historiography on the pogroms, or indeed on the origins of the “Holocaust”, or in any of the medieval expulsions, the historians always bring into place something that a term I’ve coined called “the cropped timeline explanation”. Which is you pick a certain point in time, normally just prior to the event itself, and you say that something happened here, which occasionally is a blood libel accusation. You say:

“That is the cause of everything! This is where it begins!”

And when you do that you ignore the previous 30, 40, 50, or 100 years of economic competition, of exploitation, of money lending, of loan sharking, of the monopoly of the tavern system in the Russian Empire, and so on, and so forth. You cut all of that out! Because what you want to do is you want to say:

“It has nothing to do with what jews are doing! It’s entirely self-generated!”

And it’s a problem that Whites have.

Horus: And to the extent these things are being spoken over a century and so later. I mean, the sort of proponents of that view will obviously find it politically useful now, because it says that this is a reason for us to combat your prejudices now. And to suppress your ethnic consciousness of yourselves now. Because we’ve seen, as with the “Holocaust”, we’ve seen in the past what happens when Whites are allowed to organize as Whites. [chuckling]

There are some even quite explicit expressions of that. Some people are quite frank. I can’t think of a clear example right now but some people are quite frank in saying, … Oh well, one example actually, recently, was Constantine Kisin, who’s from the Triggernometry channel on YouTube. And he said it sort of in the midst of a sentence. But you can quite clearly see his meaning. And he says, … He’s talking to a survivor of Muslim rape gangs in Britain. And he says:

“One danger about not addressing this issue, …”

Obviously this is a question of crimes against Whites, so it’s different in that sense, but:

“One danger of not addressing this properly is that it leads to, …”

I’m paraphrasing slightly, but he says:

“Leads to a rise in a sort of White racial consciousness. And we know where that leads! We know the dark places that leads!”

He’s jewish himself. He’s from the Russian Empire. He was from Russia, sorry. And so that was a particularly crystalline example. But it serves a purpose in sort of in establishing basically sort of jewish control of how active Whites are allowed to be in their own cause basically. But would you agree with that? It sort of serves purposes that go on much, much later than the events themselves. Obviously there’s actually a different narrative among jewish historians now than there was at the time. Would you say that’s right?

[26:01]

Andrew Joyce: Yeah. I mean, one of the problems with our circles, our method of politics, is that it is still steeped in sort of this kind of tendency towards reaction. And we are very reactive. And we’re reacting towards the inauguration of Biden today. And tomorrow we’ll react against something else. And then we’ll react against transsexuals and bathrooms again. And we’ll react against that.

We live in this kind of, and it’s one of the critiques that I would have of our movement, is that we live in a constant state of either enduring crisis, waiting for the next crisis, or panicking about an impending crisis. And it’s not healthy. And it’s especially not healthy when you look at the tactics that are employed by so many of our opponents. Which are that they’re always playing the long game.

I mean, it ’s not overnight did jews come up with this strategy of a “cropped timeline explanation”, or insisting that prejudice is self-generated these are people who’ve been working for years, and years, and years, before the Second World War, but especially afterwards, and moving into fields like sociology, mass communication, psychology, criminology, you name it! And in all of them becoming influential and adapting “ways of seeing”, as Kevin MacDonald’s phrase goes.

In such a way that certain ideas become anathema, and other ideas like this idea of self-generated prejudice, reach the pinnacle of academic respectability. And once those foundations are in place you have a monolithic element within culture that is very difficult to move, or even go around. And one of the problems that we have, as you’ve highlighted, is that every example of basically taking your own side in modern culture is held up as an example of an irrational bigotry.

And yeah, the amount of times I’ve had interactions with people, either in real life, or on social media, Leftists, or even normies, and you try and address some of jewish history, and whatever, that they will speak to me, … Who’s invested probably about 15 years of my life reading about this stuff now. About 10 years of very serious research and writing on it, … And have read, … I just I couldn’t even begin to tell you how many books and journal articles, …

And someone on the street — probably the last thing they read was Harry Potter. They have no background of either training in history, or literary studies, or are anything serious in terms of analyzing a text, or learning how to research something academically. And they won’t have any background. But they would deem to say to me that I’m completely off the Mark! That I’m an ignorant bigot! Someone yesterday called me, what was it?:

“A racist chud! Who believes that Braveheart was a documentary.”

No! No! No! So people like that need a very, very serious reality check! Because it’s not even David and Goliath. It’s like they aren’t even coming to the battle. I mean, people like that don’t have a, they’re living in Disneyland! That’s where their mentality is. They have this Disneyland mentality! Completely undisturbed by anything remotely disturbing about the real way in which the world works.

And I have no time for people like that. And no sympathy for them. And this phrase that went around after the Joker film came out, of:

“You get what you fucking deserve!”

There are a lot of Whites in our society, believe you me, that will get what they fucking deserve, because they won’t come out of Disneyland! They don’t want to let go with a comfort blanket. And so be it!

[29:34]

Horus: Unfortunately though, it seems that our fate is to some extent tied to theirs, right? So that’s why we probably try again, and again engaging with people, even though the chances of any sort of anything productive coming from it are usually low. When people react to you like that, just dismissal of you, who’s actually a scholar, you know, based on literally just sentences that were sent to them years ago. And that would have taken on faith. I presume the psychology there is really based upon the fact that certain conclusions are forbidden. Is that how you see it?

Andrew Joyce: Certain conclusions are forbidden. I mean, as I said, at the outset, in terms of how you’re taught things at school, it begins right there, or it begins with the History Channel, or it begins with any other method of mass indoctrination that’s in place.

And all of these methods are going to be intensified in the coming years. Because, as I explained in the essay I wrote on Moshe Kantor and this plan for “Secure Tolerance”, diversity propaganda is going to be obligatory for governments. And the uttering of certain things isn’t just going to be criminalized to the extent that if you’re stirring up hatred you get maybe one, or two, years in prison, or a fine, or something. These prison sentences are going to go to around a decade in prison. They’re going to be on a par with terrorism charges.

And all of this is due to changes in language, which are themselves accelerating. I mean, look, I was speaking this morning about this Biden inauguration and the aftermath of the Capitol protest, and what have you. And what I said — I was speaking to Nick Griffin about it — and I said to Nick:

“The language has changed since Trump came to office, in terms of describing our politics. We used to be bigots, and racists, and just horrible, nasty people. But now we’re terrorists, …!”

Horus: They’re using “traitors” against us now, as well.

Andrew Joyce: Yeah, traitors, unpatriotic, because they’re redefining what it means to be a “nationalist”, even. And this is an old tactic of jews. Because they would, say there was an “anti-semitism” in France in the early 20th century, the jews there would say:

“This is a German import! You’re acting on behalf of the Germans!”

Or if it was in Britain, they would say:

“You’re acting on behalf of the Germans.”

Well, if you’re a jew in Germany you would say:

“Ah! This anti-semitic stuff is British propaganda!”

You always inflect it back. You always divert it. And you always try and change what it means to be a patriot. So this is an old, old tactic. But it’s revived now and it’s very, very powerful in the United States. And the impact of that has been that it’s much, much easier to ban a “terrorist” than it is to ban a “bigot”. That’s what we’re dealing with here.

Horus: Yeah.

Andrew Joyce: American free speech, the vulnerability there, is that eventually they reinterpret us, so that whenever lawyers and judges interpret the First Amendment, they interpret it in such a way that there is no exemption for “terrorism”. There is an exemption, … They decide there is an exemption for bigots, there is an exemption for racists, etc., etc. But there will be no exemption for seditionists, for traitors, for terrorists!

So that this is the bracket that we will be moved into. This is the bracket that we’re almost fully moved into. This is the bracket which allows the “Prevent” program, for example, in the United Kingdom to shuffle young autistic boys into anti-terrorism programs, etc., etc, because they’ve been going on suspect websites, in their eyes. I mean, this is the nature of what we’re facing.

Horus: Yeah I mean, obviously it became especially clear in the last two weeks, since that storming of the capital. Well “storming” might be too strong. But yeah, I noticed the eagerness with which the anti-White front adopted, well calling the woman who died especially, she died as a “terrorist”, she died as a “traitor”. That was the first time I really started noticing people saying “traitor” and obviously they mean “failing to obey the ideology of the ruling class”. That’s apparently what “traitor” means now. I use the word traitor very freely as well. And I did sort of vaguely anticipate that this would happen. But it’s still ugly to see.

One thing I wanted to ask about the Kishinev events. It obviously happened, the first one happened, and the one that we mostly talk about as the Kishinev pogrom, as they say, was in 1903, if I’m not mistaken. And then there was a further eruption of violence there in 1905, as well. I’m interested by the fact that in 1905 we also had, well 1904 to 5, there was the war between Russia and Japan, which Russia lost unexpectedly. And in which Japan was supported by Jacob Schiff among other major jewish financiers. But Jacob Schiff seems to have been an important figure in so many different ways.

And also in 1905, of course, there was the first revolution against the Tsar, which failed, but helped crack it open, I think. Do you think that either the so-called pogroms themselves, or the narrative that was derived from them, served sort of geopolitical aims, or, I don’t know if this is a word, but “geo-ethnic” aims?

[35:04]

Andrew Joyce: Geo-ethnic games certainly. I mean, don’t forget that the jews in the Russian Empire at the end of the 19th century were a lot like a young adolescent boy who’s outgrowing his clothes faster than his parents can buy them, more, or less. I mean, their population was booming.

And the resources they could obtain from the peasantry were being hindered. One, by the fact that they were having to compete with each other to get gentile clients, but also, because the laws, the structure of Russian society, had changed. I mean, it wasn’t a matter of the serfs anymore, and you had them sort of compelled basically to come to your taverns and borrow money from you, and so on, and so forth. The serfs had been emancipated. So they weren’t as vulnerable as they had been before.

And one of the rationales behind emancipating the serfs was in a sense to liberate them from the jews. So this had changed. The profitability of jewish life in Russia had declined at the same time that the Russian [jewish] population was growing larger and larger. So they needed to spread out. So the pogrom narratives in a way provided an international wave of sympathy, manufactured, that would ease the path of these Russian jews to move west, and to settle in a lot of new lands. And basically carry on the same tactics and things there.

And, of course, when they go to the United States they set up in money lending and pawn broking. And all of the rest of it. And then the next generation moves into the professions. And then they slowly move into a quite controlling role within the media, and within academia, and politics, and so on.

So the primary sort of geo-ethnic role of the “pogroms”, if we want to use that terminology, is that it simply allowed the outspread of the jews. And I would say that it accelerated the development of modern international jewish politics.

I mean, I mentioned earlier how it really begins in 1840 with the Damascus Affair. But it really, it disperses the diaspora a bit more. It creates a more diffuse, international, jewish diaspora that’s much more financially capable. It’s much more organizationally well-developed.

And very soon, of course, we start seeing that the structuring of formal defense bodies, like the Anti-Defamation League, founded at the start of the 20th century. And the Board of Deputies of British jews undergoes the transformation. And we see some organizations in France and Germany and elsewhere. And these bodies start communicating. This is a vast and important evolution away from the Kahal structure which was in Russia in earlier times, which were certainly intensive and well organized.

But we’re still, compared to these other organizations, somewhat primitive. So international jewish politics is the result of the pogroms, as well as the more sort of finite dispersal of the jewish population as a whole.

Horus: Yeah. So we are talking about if the pogroms themselves were not a major event in world history, certainly what flowed from them, the effects of them, are majorly important, current in world history, from then on. And I think continuing now, right?

I mean, the reason I got in touch with you about this topic. I mean, apart from it just being interesting, is that I’ve begun, and it’s quite a large task it’s going to take me a while, but I’m making a series of videos. The first of which addresses this pogrom and the myths around it. And the fact that it led to immigration westward, especially into Britain.

My focus in the video will be on Britain. And I’ve got a list of names of people who ever moved at that time, or descended from those who did. And my sort of thesis in the video will be to say just how different Britain. I mean, you can never quite be sure about how different Britain would have been, were it not for accepting this massive wave of so-called “refugees”, or “immigrants”. Yeah, jewish ones from the Russian Empire.

Tell me if you think that this thesis is, or this statement, is overly strong. So in my notes, is it fair to say that the jewish immigration that resulted from this, was a necessary factor in bringing about the Second World War? If people want to see the basis of why I would suggest that, they could watch my video called “The Judean German War”. It’s on my BitChute channel, where I argued that were it not for jewish influence the Second World War probably would not have happened. Especially in America.

[40:04]

And I also stated sort of a list of things. I had Britain not admitted a huge wave of these so-called refugees Britain probably would have avoided it’s role in causing, or taking part in the Second World War, and thereby the Cold War as well. Although that’s stretching it somewhat. Would have good relations with many countries that hate us now.

Would be probably still 99% plus ethnic British. Again that’s maybe that’s a bit tenuous, maybe. Would be virtually unconstrained in free speech. Almost wholly free of self-hatred. Again that’s a bit of a stretch probably. But be far more free and genuinely prosperous. And I’m alluding to central banking and banking in general there. Would be far less indebted, or not at all perhaps that relates to the war, of both the World Wars. Have an education system that put learning over indoctrination. And be governed by political parties that put British people first and didn’t give their loyalty primarily to Israel. A state which, of course, Britain might never have brought into existence, or helped to bring into existence.

Do you think that’s going too far?

I mean, basically, one, I’m saying that jews — and I’m talking about the Ashkenazi jews who moved in over the sort of late 19th to 20th century — I’m basically saying they had such a huge impact that they’ve transformed our country into something completely different on all those grounds. Do you think that’s going too far?

Andrew Joyce: No. I think your general thesis there is absolutely perfect! I mean, even, for example, let’s just take the example of:

“Would Hitler have come to power without the Russian pogroms?”

And the answer is probably not. Because even though there would have been a dissatisfaction around the Treaty of Versailles, if the First World War itself had gone ahead, the presence of a mass anti-semitic political movement would have been less likely, had it not been for Hitler’s immediate predecessors, like Carl Lugar in Austria. Who was active in the 1880s primarily against in Vienna the mass influx of Russian pogrom, so-called “pogrom” refugees there. The German, or the sort of central European, I suppose also in France as well, these political anti-semitic movements of the late 19th century orbit around the mass influx of the Russian pogrom victims, so-called.

So without that impetus you would never have seen the energy and dynamism in those particular movements. And they just, without any kind of raison d’être to exist, without any reason for existence, they would either have been very weak, or they would have been nonexistent in the first place.

So you may have had an alternative party come to power pursuing a revision of the Treaty of Versailles, but it may not have had quite the aggressive position of the National Socialist German Workers Party. And without such a party coming to power it’s debatable as to whether the Second World War would have taken place.

You’re absolutely correct when you point out that most of the, or imply, that most of the figures who actually introduced hate speech laws and into the United Kingdom, in the mid to late 20th century were all the descendants of jewish pogrom refugees. That’s absolutely correct! From Leon Britain through to what was his name Cohen Frank Sauskus [sp]. What do you call him? Malcolm Rifkind.

Horus: Yeah, Anthony Lester, as well.

Andrew Joyce: Yeah, Anthony Lester. Yeah, they were all the descendants of these migrants, these Russian jewish migrants.

So when you deduct all of those personalities from the equation, absolutely you wouldn’t have had any of those laws! You may not have had some of those wars. You wouldn’t have had a lot of that legislation and activism. And certainly you wouldn’t have had the cultural interference. I mean, even today we’ve got people like Jonathan Freedland of The Guardian, who’s pumping out all kinds of propaganda against White people. And people like him, David Aaronovitch, you know.

All of them are simply the grandchildren and great grandchildren of these Russian-jewish fake pogrom migrants. And it’s been nothing but trouble for the British people! And, as I said, if you’d have had, you know, and it’s always in a sense counterfactual to say the “what ifs”.

But I think we can say with some clarity that had these people not been allowed to mass migrate to the United Kingdom, and elsewhere, the world would be a very, very different place. Russia might be a shithole however! [laughter]

[44:41]

Horus: Yeah. So yeah, I might find that actually the video, or the series of videos, that I’ve set out to make is actually too narrow in scope. I might even need to make it more grand in my statement. But I have a tendency to focus on Britain just because I find that so many other people cover America very well. And it’s not uninteresting to talk about America at all. But I just I just feel that I can add some value to people’s understanding by focusing on Britain.

So I’m encouraged that you think that thesis is in the Right area. And I’m gonna continue working on that with renewed energy. I’m aware that you’ve got to finish very shortly.

I suppose just one quick question to finish this off. Is it true to say that the influx of Askenazis introduced a far more kind of aggressively ethnic and revolutionary, or subversive, or corrosive, element than Sephardis ever had? Because I’m aware of various subversive activities that arise out of Sephardis in Britain. But they seem, you know, there seems to be one for every thousand incidents that that come from Ashkenazis. Do you think that’s correct?

Andrew Joyce: Yeah there is a difference between the Sephardis and the Ashkenazis. The Sephardis will have a slightly lower intelligence which makes them less challenging as opponents in various spheres.

They also, I would say, the main difference would be a lower level of psychological aggression. So the Sephardis still have the same level of ethnocentrism, I would argue.

But they’re more risk-averse, whereas the Ashkenazis, I would argue, as a kind of adaptation to the fact that they’ve always had a really rocky experience in Europe, are almost born gamblers! That they’re quite risk-prone and they’re willing to push the envelope so much further. And when you combine the higher intelligence with that gung-ho, risk-taking strategy, what you get is the recipe for interesting friction with the host population. And certainly an almost sociopathic refusal to learn from mistakes.

So you end up seeing patterns throughout history of just repeated behaviors again, and again, and again, often with the stakes rising higher, and higher, and higher. And that certainly has been the history of interactions between Europeans and the Ashkenazi.

Whereas at times the Sephardis have been able to exist for long periods without much trouble. I mean, yes the jews were exiled from England in 1290 and weren’t readmitted until Cromwell. But there were Sephardis that we know that were active in London in the interim period. And they’ve seem to have been there without much trouble. There were the odd incidents. I think that one of Queen Elizabeth’s physicians was a Sephardi. I think there was some possible treason on his part. But for the most part they’re much much more low-key. And to some extent less offensive socially, and culturally also.

Horus: Yeah. I mean, I immediately think of Benjamin Disraeli. A man who is really quite different from say, I don’t know, Philip Pyritin say. Well, I don’t know! One could name loads of the Ashkenazis. But and also. I mean, I know we’re about to finish, but just the last thing that you said about like the sort of them losing their minds. That just immediately puts me in mind of the ADL tweet from the other day, calling for Trump to be removed from office. I just thought:

“You’re going too far! You are going too far there! You’re getting too brazen! If you carry on like that you’ll [chuckling] cause yourself problems.”

Andrew Joyce: Yeah. The problem is, there is no limit! There is no “too far” in they’re mental horizons. So the ADL will always push. They will take on anyone! Because part of it is a superiority complex, too. And they literally cannot conceive that they will lose. That’s what part of this is. They cannot conceive a situation in which they will lose!

Horus: And the consequences could be terrible for everyone, or we could resolve it peacefully. I’m still not sure. I’ve talked to Gilad Atzmon a few times. And I’ve talked to him about this as well and he says:

“Yeah it is possible to resolve all this peacefully, but we don’t see how yet, there’s no obvious way at the moment.”

Andrew Joyce: All you all you can do is hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Horus: Yeah. So I’ll bring it to a close now as I know you’ve got to go. But there’s ten different things I could ask you about, you know, off the back of this. So I wanted to mention Douglas Reed The Controversy of zion. I wanted to mention Chabad-Lubavitch, and all sorts of other things.

But thank you very much for your time.

Andrew Joyce: Yeah. And we’ll do it again. We’ll do this again.

Horus: Yeah, that’d be absolutely great! And this as I say, has encouraged me to resume work on this series of videos I’m making. So I thank you for that as well. And yeah, thanks very much for talking to me today Andrew. I look forward to speak to you again.

Andrew Joyce: Okay.

Horus: Thanks. Bye.

[49:51]

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Laura Towler – Are We The Bad Guys? Featuring Mark Collett, The Ayatollah and Horus – Aug 24, 2020 — Transcript

admin — Sun, 06 Sep 2020 07:16:36 +0000

[Laura Towler, Deputy Leader of Patriotic Alternative, has a lively, humorous, and informative chat with Mark Collett, Leader of PA, the Ayatollah (of TASOB — The Absolute State of Britain podcast), and Horus (videographer) about the current state of nationalist politics and tactics in Britain today, and PA’s progress as a movement to unite patriots.

The subject, “Are We the Bad Guys?” dealt with how hate organizations, such as Hope Not Hate, and the hostile “elite” and its (((media))), attempt to portray nationalists as “evil” for wanting to stand up for the British people and fight to keep Britain from being turned further into the Third World in coming years and decades.

It was also a special occasion for Laura as she celebrated her birthday during the week, making ever quicker progress towards her 40th year, according to rumour!

— KATANA]

Laura Towler

Are We the Bad Guys?

Mark Collett, the Ayatollah

and Horus

Aug 24, 2020

Click here for the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uznm5-3xowE

Published on Aug 24, 2020

Are We The Bad Guys? Feat. Mark Collett, The Ayatollah and Horus
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•Streamed live on Aug 23, 2020
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Laura Towler
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Mark’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/mark318i

Mark’s BitChute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/IYXq…

Mark’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkACollett

Horus’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3R1…

Horus’s BitChute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/mOmf…

Horus’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/nastymutant

The Ayatollah’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKSe…

The Ayatollah’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/DerrickDayTASOB

TASOB (podcast): https://therightstuff.biz/category/al…

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TRANSCRIPT

(96:28)

[00:00]

Laura: Okay. Good evening ladies and gentlemen. We should be live welcome to the stream. I hope everybody’s doing well it’s Sunday evening at seven o’clock in the United Kingdom. And anybody who’s listened to the last couple of streams that I’ve done you might remember that I said I was going to do a stream every month.

So this is my August stream. And I thought I’d do it this week, because this week is my birthday. So, I thought it might be fun to do a bit of a birthday stream. It’s not actually today but it is this week. So it’s like my birthday week stream, I guess.

So I’ve had a really good weekend. Yesterday we went away and stayed overnight in like a converted barn kind of thing. It was really cozy went out for some food for my birthday and then today we had a Yorkshire regional group, you know, the Patriotic Alternative regional group meet up. And we went for a hike and we walked about I think about six and a half miles.

And Mark we actually broke the record for the youngest ever hiker. The previous record was a young girl of 10 years old who comes with a dad. But today we had a six-year-old boy who walked with us and he walked about six and a half miles. I mean, to be fair he did spend most of that on his dad’s shoulders, but he gave it a shot.

So let’s just jump straight in. We’ve got until about half past eight. So we’ve got an hour and a half.

But let me introduce my three guests. So first of all I’m joined by Mark Collett who needs no introduction but I’ll give him a quick introduction anyway. He was described by Hope Not Hate last week as being one of the UK’s most notorious fascist figures! [chuckling] Mark and how are you?

Mark: I’m very well I’m just slightly disappointed that I wasn’t the most, just one of the most, which means I have more work to do. Very happy birthday to you Laura! How does it feel to reach the big 4-0 [laughter]?

Laura: There’s gonna be another rumor going round!

Mark: That’s just a little troll for all the people who have spent the last month trying to work out your age. And after all of their big brain takes they still got it wrong. We know you are not over 40! Thank you for such a lovely introduction. And also well done on the event today. That is fantastic news that we’ve got a new youngest PA hiker! That is absolutely brilliant! That is what I like to hear!

I really look forward to the eventual time when we get a proper family event up and running, so we actually get whole families turning up. And I think that would be a really positive development for us.

Laura: Yeah the hikes if anyone’s not been to a PA event before, do get involved, because they are very family focused. We also had a girl who came to our group today and she’s never been to any event before. So it was her first event. She had a really nice time we went for the hike. She actually threw it down as well.

I got home and my socks were wet! There’s nothing worse than wet socks! But afterwards we went for some food in the pub and yeah, it was just really nice.

You know, if women are turning up by themselves, then it must be quite a comfortable safe environment. So yeah, it was really good!

So I’ll move on to the Ayatollah who is back by popular demand. My audience absolutely loved the Ayatollah. I’m not sure what to say to be honest, but I’m joking. But so he is one third of the TASOB podcast, The Absolute State Of Britain podcast, and I hear you’ve actually started your own YouTube channel as well. Is that right the Ayatollah?

Ayatollah: Yeah I have, although I’m starting to feel a little bit guilty, because I’ve been plugging it for a good month, or more now, I’ve not actually done anything yet. But the plan is, once I’ve figured out things like, you know, Entropy and Superchats to start doing a sort of a light-hearted stream on a Friday night. Now D-Day at the moment, if you forgive the inclement analogy, given all the things we understand, is going to be Friday the 4th of September. So I’ll get something sorted out for them. But it should be a good laugh.

But yeah, happy birthday Laura! I logged into Twitter to promote, sort of retweet, and let everyone know that I was on your channel. And then like my mentions were deluged with like birthday wishes for you. I suppose, you know, when I’m in the 80s, I hope people care about me as much as they do about you! [chuckling].

Because, you know, I was leafing through my bible earlier on and I forgot that you do actually get a couple of mentions in the last stages of the Old Testament when they’re talking about, you know, rising nativism, over in northwestern Europe!

So it sounds like you spent your birthday on the set of Emmerdale Farm, and then like you went to see the wolf pack. And then you like the next day you went for a ramble with the Dingle family, or something. Am I sort missing any details, I’m missing there?

Laura: It was exactly like that, yeah!

Ayatollah: Yeah, yeah very, Yorkshire!

[05:00]

Laura: Yeah proper Yorkshire. Yeah, it was in North Yorkshire that we went to. It was dead good.

So yeah, so my third and final guest, sorry for making you wait so long, but it’s Horus! Who is a video maker and he makes really informative videos about, usually about historical topics, but all sorts of stuff. I think everybody who’s watching will be familiar with who Horus is. But hello Horus how are you?

Horus: I’m good thanks, yeah. Happy birthday! And did you have Yorkshire pudding yesterday, or?

Laura: No, I didn’t actually I’m kind of addicted to Hunter’s Chicken at the moment. Every time I go out, I just have Hunter’s Chicken. So it’s like chicken, bacon, cheese, and barbecue sauce. And I’ll just have that with salad. But yeah, I had Hunter’s Chicken. I’m actually going to start doing keto tomorrow. And yeah, we’ve decided, me and my fiancee, that we’re going to start doing keto tomorrow

Ayatollah: Tomorrow!

Laura: yeah [chuckling] because I’ve been eating really healthy for about six months now. But I just want to kind of speed things up a little bit. Obviously getting married in November. So yeah, high fat, low carbs, I think it is. But I need to research it a bit more. But yeah.

So we’ve got some good topics to talk about today. And I mentioned earlier that Mark was described by Hope Not Hate as one of the UK’s most notorious fascist figures. I’m not sure who the other ones are. But I thought we’d talk about the report from Hope Not Hate, because I’ve titled this video “Are We the Bad Guys?”.

And obviously according to Hope Not Hate we are the bad guys. Just one moment let me share my screen. Entire screen. So the screen should be sharing now. And this is the tweet that Hope Not Hate put out when they announced their incredibly scary report.

Look how over-dramatic it is. It’s like:

“WARNING: NEW FASCIST GROUP IS TRYING TO REVIVE RACE SUPREMACY IN THE UK

Read our report on Patriotic Alternative, a fascist, anti-semitic, White nationalist organization trying to unite the British far-right.

READ IT NOW”

It’s just so over emotional and effeminate. And they always use this photograph of me and Mark, where I think we just look incredible and nice! [chuckling] And it just doesn’t make sense to have those crazy emojis and capital letters and stuff next to that photo.

But let’s take a look at the report, because it’s just so over emotional and, so over the top! So it’s Patriotic Alternative let’s see if I can, … Can you guys see that on the screen all right?

Horus: Love that picture!

Laura: Yeah. So that’s the banner that we did at the top of Mam Tor*, White Lives Matter. There’s obviously me and Mark stood at the side. Yes, so it’s like:

“It’s founder is Mark Collett, formerly Director of Publicity for the British National Party, one of the UK’s most notorious fascist figures.”

It talks about who we are:

“What is Patriotic Alternative?”

That’s our excellent banner as well, that we did outside York Minster, for Indigenous Peoples Day. The speakers from the last conference. And then it talks about our “extremism”. So it’s things like “fascism, racism ‘Holocaust’ denial”.

There’s a bit about the Hundred Handers there. Mark Collett. I’ve got my bit. It’s now Laura Tyrie, aka, Laura Towler. I think it’s going to be Laura Axley Lennon [laughter]! One of those things now, where they always feel the need to say that. And there’s some quotes from Mark.

I was laughing my head off at these quotes, [chuckling] because they’re from like 20 years ago! And they just seem like so out of place, and mental!

I hate that photograph that they use of me as well. I feel like I look bug eyed. But I think I chose that one, because I wasn’t smiling on it. Some more photos from Indigenous People’s Day.

It’s just a really kind of rushed, over emotional, report. And I thought it might be good this evening to kind of explore what it means to be “good” and “bad”. Because we get told all the time that we’re really bad people, that we’re extreme! That we want to like murder everyone, and stuff like that. And we don’t! We just love the British! And we love Britain, and we want to keep it safe.

And I think the difference between nationalism and globalism, is that nationalists care about their people and understand that they can’t save the whole world, whereas globalists want to save the whole world, but they’ll do that to a detriment of their own people. And it puts our own people at risk. So I don’t understand why, well I do understand why, but, you know, playing devil’s advocate, we have to be the bad guys all the time.

But if we go around the panel. Mark do you want to talk about it first? You’ve put up with this for 20 years haven’t you? You’ve been like the most evil person in the world!

[* Mam Tor — is a 517 m hill near Castleton in the High Peak of Derbyshire, England. Its name means “mother hill”, so called because frequent landslips on its eastern face have resulted in a multitude of “mini-hills” beneath it.]

[09:30]

Mark: Official? Is that now my official title? Officially, de facto, the most evil person in the whole world! Yeah, I have! And it’s kind of one of those crosses that you have to bear. And it’s very interesting really, because really we’re trying to simply create a future for our children. We’re trying to secure the existence of our people. And what really could be more noble, or more natural than making your life’s work to ensure that your kind survive, that you prosper? And doing so in your own nation. We’re not talking about setting up empire 2.0! We’re not talking about colonizing other people’s nations. We’re not saying:

“Well our nation is going to be destroyed by natural disasters, so we need to invade another country and take it over.”

We’re just saying:

“We want the land our ancestors lived on, we want it for us! And we want to survive! And we want to take our destiny into our own hands!”

Now, none of that is really, particularly, outrageous. It’s not outrageous at all in fact! And it is something that’s afforded to every other group.

Yet when we try to do it we are the bad guys. And often one of the difficult things is, you’re treated as bad guys for trying to warn people that such terror is coming their way.

And for two decades I’ve been saying this is going to get worse! We’re going to become a minority! And as we become a minority, we will become victims of racial attacks, of grooming, we will be treated worse than second-class citizens, and will become an absolute underclass!

And obviously, as those two decades went by, my position has become more and more vindicated.

But even so, even in today’s climate. When you see so many problems in the West. When you see “Black Lives Matter”. When you see the problem with the promotion of pedophilia by the mainstream media, by Netflix. When you see who controls the media. When you see the messages they’re pushing on school children. When you see mass immigration. When you see the number of people coming in illegally. You see all of these problems, we’re still treated as the bad guys for pointing it out. And I think that is a cross we have to bear, we have to bear it, and we have to smile.

The only thing we must always be careful not to do is when we present ourselves, we must always be smiley and nice.

And I think in the past one of the problems that nationalism’s had is, because we’ve always been called the bad guys people have played up to that stereotype. And I think that’s a bad thing. And one of the great things about PA, is the pictures they’ve got from us at all PA events absolutely fantastic! And anyone looking at the pictures of us and the kind of events we hold and the people who attend it and then looking at the bad guy narrative, are going to be very confused, because there’s a huge disconnect there between their narrative and reality.

Laura: Yeah, that’s absolutely spot on! And I remember when I gave my speech at the last Patriotic Alternative conference and I finished by saying the words:

“If we have to bear the burden of being villains, then so be it.”

And I think in a way you kind of you do end up embracing it and just thinking:

“Call me whatever you want, I do not care!”

And it’s like water off of a ducks back. You get called every single name so many times you just you stop caring. Like you literally do not care. But that doesn’t mean that we should start acting like bad people. I think you should embrace it in a way where you don’t allow it to get to you.

I think the thing that I really love about PA is how it’s so family focused, and it’s not people wanting to go out and have a scrap. I mean, sometimes you get really angry and you do just kind of want to punch someone. But we always have to remember why we’re involved in this.

And Ayatollah, if I could come to you, you’re probably, if I had to name one person who responds the best to being called names, [chuckling] it’s probably you. You really do embrace it, don’t you, on Twitter?

Ayatollah: Yeah, with a little help from the late, great, Derrick Day. Yeah, you know, to be honest, the older I get the less, and less, patience I have with these people. So what I did was I set a little time aside, took some video clips from things like Father Ted, and other sorts of things like that. And I tend to just respond to these people with those.

These people, look. There are certain ways in which they got power over you if they’re able to dox you, you know, try and get you sacked, or whatever, threaten you with violence.

In a lot of context though if you’re upset, like the most they can do is wield their anti-White false morality. And if you show them, if you just give that the finger, all they can do is be outraged at you for being a transgressor against the occupier’s morality.

I mean, just to pick up pick up on something Mark was saying about, you know, his position’s always been the same, and he’s been vindicated. I mean, just to attest to that, if you look back at the old Russell Brand thing featuring Mark from years ago. There’s clips of it on YouTube. You go in the comments on those YouTube clips and it’s full of people saying:

“Yeah, well Collett was right wasn’t he Russell? He was right, wasn’t he?”

I mean, look at us now! Look at the ‘new normal’ Russell, 15 years on, or however long ago it is. It’s maybe longer ago than that now, 18? I don’t know.

But yeah, you know, on the idea of us being the bad guys, I’m going to sound like a broken record, obviously I’ve appeared on a couple of streams on your channel before Laura. I’m mindful that you’ve got a much larger and sort of broader, you know, ideologically broader audience than I usually speak to on The Absolute State Of Britain. [15:07] But we’ll have some regular listeners, listening. And they’ll be familiar with me saying like the same things every week. But it bears repeating, this only makes sense if you understand, and again I say this mindful of the fact that you’ve got some people who are basically nationalist in their instinct, but don’t fully understand maybe all the issues yet, and they’re getting there. As are a lot of the people that sort of come to our podcast and they, you know, things start sort of falling into place, if I’m not giving us too much credit.

But all of this only makes sense, the idea that people that want to preserve, the people that want to defend their own collective interests, and just basically want to be left alone, and want to have a normal functional society which is going to be largely homogenous. And to the extent that it’s not homogeneous it’s going to be understood that the indigenous group are the politically, and culturally, and institutionally, dominant group, no questions asked. And that is preserved, and that is respected, doesn’t need to be any animosity in with that. It’s just something that’s understood.

Same as if you’re a guest in somebody’s house. You might very well feel at home, however, you don’t get to start saying what color they paint the bathroom. Now that’s a crude analogy. However, I think it probably makes sense to people. But none of this makes sense again without understanding that we are under the occupation of — we’re about to be hostages, at this point, really — of (((people))) who bitterly resent us, they have a historic sense of vengeance against us! They’ve got a pathological sadism, and vindictiveness! And they wish to dispossess us, to humiliate us, and ultimately, … Yeah, they want to blend us out!

You know, they control media, they’ve subverted the institutions, they’ve subverted all the apparatus of power. And they had to do it that way. And to be able to do what they’re doing, they’ve had to cultivate, and a lot of work has gone into this, they had to cultivate a false consciousness, and a false sort of morality and moral code, within the collective consciousness of our people, through sort of making being territorial and defensive of your own people, sort of presenting it as low status, and like unintelligent, and boorish. And many other things obviously.

The harder deterrences as well, of penalizing speech law and what have you. And efforts to sort of break up any of our efforts to organize, historically. That they had to do all of that, at great effort, through controlling media, and entertainment, and academia, and the education system.

They had to sort of cultivate this false consciousness, and this false morality, through indoctrinating people through all those means. Which has engendered this sense of guilt, and timidity, among White people for standing up for their own interests and saying:

“Well, this isn’t very good for us!”

However, reasonably. So, you know, they have to invert reality. And basically they have to pathologize, and they have, all that is normal and that is healthy and is self-preserving. If they couldn’t do that, they wouldn’t be able to do any of this.

And the problem they’re coming up against is, you’re never going to be totally, you’re never going to be able to totally stamp that out. There’s always going to be some people who’ve got enough about them to say:

“No!”

Essentially. And the problem they’ve got is that’s happening more and more, because it’s getting worse for people as the demographics get worse, as the propaganda gets worse.

You’ve only got a look at the past couple of months. You’ve only got to look at what Hope Not Hate said themselves in their report, or what the Independent said in their analysis of it, where they said like, you know, “Black Lives Matter” and things like that, they’re making the Right more racially conscious. They said:

“Oh they’re making them more racist!”

No! They’re making us more racially conscious, and they’re increasing our numbers. And I can tell you this from our listeners that people come to us. And from anecdotes from our listeners, and my own personal life.

Image: Black ~~Lives~~ Lies Matter

Yeah, things like the “Black Lives Matter” riots and the propaganda and everything else. Yeah, it can only go one way. This is an inevitable consequence of what they want to do. And they are sort of talking about it like, you know:

“How did this happen? It seems as though it’s radicalized people! It seems as though it’s polarized opinion! And it seems as though it’s cultivating a greater sense of racial consciousness, and racial awareness among White people.”

Well, what do you expect? You know, you cannot do what you’re doing without people pushing back and without people thinking:

“Well, I keep getting attacked for being White! I keep being brow beaten for it on the television, and on the internet, and in the media, and I keep seeing these riots and people pulling down statues and burning our flag.”

Well, yeah, it’s gonna wake people up. So it can only go one way. Yeah.

Laura: It’s interesting that they say that we’re the ones reviving “race supremacy”. I mean, obviously “supremacy” is not the right word to use. But racial politics. Yes. Absolutely! We do advocate for racial politics, because we recognize that race is real, and we want a homeland for our own ethnic group.

Image: Black ~~Lives~~ Lies Matter

But I don’t think it’s us that’s reviving it. I think the reason why the majority of people are noticing race now is because of all the other races, especially the BLM riots. Even people like my sister, who’s not into politics at all. The riots woke her up. And she’s been texting me about all sorts of stuff saying:

“What does ‘MSM’ mean? What does ‘mainstream media’ mean and what’s ‘virtue signaling’ Laura?”

And she’s now interested in politics, because the people have been pulling down statues in London, and stuff.

But Horus, if I can come to you, because I know you’ve been following all of this on Twitter as well. Do you think that they’re panicking? Do you think that Hope Not Hate are panicking? Because they do this thing where they kind of try and play down how serious of a threat we are. But then at the same time they’ll be like:

“Oh but they’re going to unite the fascist Right, and we need to keep an eye on them, because they’re dangerous!”

Do you think they see us as a threat? Do you think it’s like a coping mechanism that they pretend that we’re not? What are your thoughts on that?

[20:26]

Horus: I think they definitely see us as a threat. And they are right to some extent. But yeah, my impression is that they’re in disarray, because obviously we had Indigenous, … Well, White Lives Matter Day, what was it about a week before this report came out? Maybe even less than a week. And the media, I think, they have like coordinated Whatsap, or Slack groups where, you know, they’re saying:

“No. Let’s all agree not to report on this.”

And The Star broke from that for a moment, and then withdrew their story. Yeah, within a couple of hours, wasn’t it?

And I think the media did their job that day, but they and the political class, and the sort of range of organizations like Hope Not Hate, are not fully coordinated across all of them. I’d say all these people sort of constitute the ruling class. But it is not a thing that can easily be managed although all in one, you know, all to one purpose.

My impression is that people like Hope Not Hate, yeah they’re what’s the word? Sort of flailing around a bit, somewhat disorderly. I mean, yeah, so that they coordinated non-reporting of White Lives Matter, and all the amazing banners that people did. Hundreds and hundreds of them in the end, right?

But then a few days later Hope Not Hate putting out this Report, which to me, looks like publicity! I mean, accidentally on their part. But it, you know, those pictures are amazing! They look brilliant! [chuckling] And they’re sending that out to people. And they’re saying:

“You need to hate this!”

Right? Because. I mean, let’s not be, you know, I don’t need to point this out to you. But let’s not be confused by their name. Hope Not Hate is a hate organization! That’s what it exists for, right?

But yeah, my impression is they don’t really know what they’re doing. And they don’t have any clear idea of what to do with this. I mean, they’re used to having the State on their side. And the State and the Government are on their side, but the government doesn’t know exactly what it’s doing either.

I mean, this thing, maybe I’m straying from the point a little bit. But this thing in Calais, I mean, I believe the Tories want to make us a minority. They want as much immigration as possible to finish us off, as soon as possible. That’s roughly how they see it. I’m sure they’re not united on that, but the leadership of the party, I think that’s what they want.

But this stuff in Calais even though it’s small numbers right so it’s not actually benefiting that aim very much. It’s still happening, right? And it’s terrible for the Tory’s reputation! It’s really making them look bad! So my impression is that the whole ruling class is struggling to sort of hold itself together. And this, you know, seeing basically missteps like this, is a sign of that. I mean, the subtitle of the report was “Uniting the Far Right”, or whatever, and a question mark. I mean, ..

Ayatollah: That’s right, yeah.

Horus: I get the impression, in a way, they sort of fancy us, you know what I mean? [chuckling] Like they want, well actually, they kind of admire us. They kind of want to be us, in a way, because, you know,

Laura: Well they always used to use that photo with Mark, where he was like, … What were you doing Mark? Like in the forest on your bike, or something?

Mark: Yeah on my mountain bike. They used to love the one of me.

Ayatollah: An action shot, yeah! Like mud on his face!

Mark: That was a perfect, fantastic day.

Horus: And yeah, I mean, it really seemed like [words unclear] the gentile ones involved anyway. And of the others we’re talking about people who have such a strange psychology anyway. And just my impression is they, even among themselves, you know, even if they have a meeting that all the, however many people are, the same a dozen people work for Hope Not Hate, whatever. When they have a meeting, I bet their meetings are all over the place. And they don’t really have a point. They don’t really come to any conclusion, because they don’t know what to do!

All they’ve really know is how to use their sort of terror and intimidation tactics, which are just working less, and less.

And the last thing I’ll say is that another sign of this is you look under their tweets and it’s pretty much unified rejection of what they’re doing! Nobody likes them! You don’t even see a bunch of their supporters trying to combat us, it’s just rejection! It’s just people not even, you know, not even people who are wide awake, red pill nationalists. Just everyone who’s heard of Hope Not Hate, hates them!

Ayatollah: Telling them to get on their bike, basically.

Horus: Yeah, I think they’re flailing around! They still have some effect they still have the power to really cause some people some problems, but as a movement they don’t know how to deal with this. And I think it’s very encouraging.

[25:01]

Ayatollah: I had a quick scan, if I can make a quick point, I had a quick scan some months back through Hope Not Hate’s YouTube channel, right? [chuckling] And I can tell you now over a period of like nine years of it, they had like three, or four, videos that have had more views than a weekly TASOB podcast gets. Now we’ve not got a massive audience, right?

And the best part was almost every video, if I can recall correctly, or a lot of them, had the likes and dislikes disabled. And obviously the comments disabled. But of the ones that didn’t have the like to dislike ratio disabled the best ratio I saw was four dislikes to one like! So look, that doesn’t accord as any power. But it does tell you, as if any of us needed it, the extent to which these people are astro turf stooges.

And I mean, it goes back again to the sort of, I mean, this isn’t just true of Hope Not Hate, it’s true of the sort of the anti-White Left in general. It’s a bit of an old meme now, but it still rings true, the bio-Leninism thing. The idea of like a hostile elite weaponizing the absolute, you know, the dysfunctional dregs of a society, and according them power as a sort of, in various ways, to terrorize the functional middle, or to sort of even in some cases to sort of police them to act as like moral arbiters and moral police. They give them a little bit of power to act. It’s like sort of a supervisory class.

And these people are a lot of them, you know, they’ve either got hostile ethnic interests — I’ll let you read between the lines as to what I mean, on that because there are very powerless, very oppressed people, who’ve got, very powerless, disenfranchised lobbying societies, that will come after Laura’s YouTube channel if I speak a little bit too freely! As powerless and as oppressed as they are, that might happen, by a sheer fluke!

See: Patriotic Weekly Review – with Edward Dutton

But a lot of these people are freaks. They’re just dysgenic freaks who wield, you know, they’re Dutton’s spiteful mutants! Yeah! But, you know, they wield the power. The little power they’re given by the occupiers, incredibly vindictively. And I mean, sadistically! Because they resent the functionality and just the normality, and the wholesomeness, of the people they wield it against. Because they understand that they’ve only got that power, because we’re not in a normal situation.

They understand that the normal functional people are disempowered, they want to punish them, and they understand that if those normal functional people were, as ought to be the case, the people that had the cultural and institutional power, these people would be not vindictively, but just sort of quietly shunned and not really given any say in society. That’s basically it.

Laura: Do you do a Dutton impression, too?

Ayatollah: Yeah, well actually I can actually do a passable impression of all three of the former panelists of the expansive group channel, in three seconds, just by saying “yes” in their respective voices.

So it’d be sort of like, you know, obviously you’ve got Dr Dutton, you’ve got Spencer, then you’ve got Keith Woods. So it’d be something like “yaah”, “yeaar”, “heheyair”.

Horus: [laughing] Dutton’s a little bit more posh, though. I think you need to posh it up.

Ayatollah: Yeah I’m being lazy mate, yeah.

Horus: I would just say one more thing. Like, anyone who wants to know more about Hope Not Hate, just look into their funding as well, because it comes from just billionaires and mega millionaires, and stuff.

See: Against Brian and Avi

And I did a video last year called “Against Brian Avi”, which is on my BitChute channel. It tells you some more about them. Or just go on their website. That’s what I did. So, I think it says a lot about them.

Laura: Yeah did, you know, they actually blocked Patriotic Alternative on Twitter? Hope Not Hate did, because.

Ayatollah: Yeah. I saw that.

Laura: And they said something like:

“We’re not sorry! And we’re not gonna change our view, so keep it coming.”

And they got a big pile on from our followers. And they ended up blocking us on Twitter. Which was pretty funny!

Horus: They fancy PA, and they’re trying to “negative” you., you know what I mean? They’re trying to like act like they hate you, but actually they really fancy PA! Because PA is kind of like really good looking as well. It’s got a lovely logo and everything. But it’s not like the old days. Like old times fascism where the design wasn’t that good.

Ayatollah: Like [word unclear] climbing out of his front room window, yeah. [laughter]

Horus: Yeah, PA actually looks really swish! They’re trying to act like they hate you, but really they’re fancy you.

Ayatollah: That that sort of thing always terrifies them as well. And again it tells you again the psychology of these people. They’re like curtain switching voyeurs! And they love to sort of morally place us:

“No you can’t say that!”

And then the problem they have when people just sort of do the:

“Yeah and what? Yeah sharp nerd.”

When people do that to them, it’s like it becomes apparent they’re like calling somebody racist is like to start trying to give the Terminator a “Chinese burn”. Yeah, it’s not really going to work.

Horus: [chuckling] They’re really put down by just unapologeticness, you know.

Ayatollah: Yeah. There’s no answer to it, other than doxing and everything else, you know.

Laura: Ayatollah, since it’s my birthday will you do your impression of me?

Ayatollah: Well I just have to talk about David Lammy now, I can’t really get my voice quite high enough! [laughter] If I just say that, that’ll have to do. So I’ll just say, like the thing about David Lammy, is one moment he’ll say he’s British, because like he wants to sort of play civic nationalism, and then the next moment, he’ll say he’s ~~Ghanaian~~, or Guyana, or wherever his parents are from. And then the next moment he’ll say he’s African, [laughter], because he wants to campaign for reparations for slavery. This really winds me up!

But I don’t know what that says about your psychology that your idea of a birthday gift from me is that, I have the mick taken out of you, but, ..

Horus: The accent is good, but you just sound like a gay man, it’s just.

Ayatollah: Yeah, well I keep saying I sound like a gay hairdresser from Luton, that’s the problem. [laughter] But yeah, I can’t get my voice high enough, you know.

Laura: Mark. I wanted to ask you about the media attention that we got, because when we did Indigenous People’s Day it was picked up by the local media. But I think the only sort of like major news outlet that wrote an article about was the Daily Star. And then all the comments underneath the article were really positive about us. They ended up deleting the article! And then Hope Not Hate did their report, and then obviously the entire mainstream media picked it up and we had articles in the Independent, the Daily Mirror, The Jewish Times, 44 million Facebook followers, Unilad published a post about it. And most of the comments, like 99 percent of the comments were in support of us.

But what do you think? Why do you think that was Mark? Because they were silent until Hope Not Hate did the report and then the Daily Star deleted their article. It’s a bit weird. Do you think they have like a coordinated news cycle, or something?

Mark: I think they’re very scared about talking about us. And they’re scared about talking about us for two reasons. The first is that we’re totally unapologetic! We don’t apologize for anything! We say how it is. And really if they call us “fascists”, if they call us “racist”, if they call “Nazi”, we don’t start groveling. Now that scares them a lot, because if you look at any of the other nationalist parties, especially the ones that are civic nationalist parties that openly advocate that anyone can be “British”, or that once you come here, if you say that you love the English flag, if you say you love the cross of Saint George, then England’s in your heart, and you’re just as England, English as anyone else!

The parties that say that, they don’t really fear them, because they know as soon as they get them in any form of debate, or they get them on the television, or they start speaking to them, they will crumble! And they’ll start dancing to the media’s tune!

And then there’s another thing that they are afraid of as well, that they really hate about us, is that when we do things, we do things very professionally! Everything we do looks professional, it looks slick. All of our events have been in very classy venues. They’ve all been carried off. So that anyone coming to them would be absolutely impressed by what was going on!

And something else that they love about the old style of nationalism is that it’s always a tatty old Union Jack that’s being badly folded, … You know, the sort that I mean, unfolded over a place table with four speakers sat behind the place table. The flag looks like it could do with a good iron. Three of the speakers look absolutely bored! And are sat there drinking their beers! And the audience is sat in the back room of some old-fashioned pub. And it looks like a scene out of a, … What was that film called? The one where, ..

Ayatollah: “This is England”.

Mark: Exactly! It looks like a scene out of “This is England”!

Laura: How did you get that?

Ayatollah: I can remember like there’s a particular scene where they go to some sort of rally, or whatever, and they’re in the back room in a pub. Having said that Jonathan Bowden did most of his speeches in the back room of a pub, didn’t they? You know, sort of:

“Liberalism is moral syphilis!”

And whatever! But, you know. Yeah, I don’t know.

Mark: Well, we all did at one point. But those times have passed! And it’s very interesting that we’re different to that. And I think they’re scared of us for those two reasons.

First thing we’re not gonna apologize, and secondly we look really professional.

And if you think of a group, or a group that tried to become a party. A few months ago, just after we launched PA, in fact, or, it might have been just before we launched PA. But either way, it was a good few months ago now. A group of people tried to start a party that were called “Integrity”. And it was meant to get Tommy Robinson on board. It was meant to get Sargon on board. Loads of people were meant to be joining up. And they held this inaugural meeting in a pub. Can any of you remember the footage of that meeting? It was really awful!

Laura: Yeah.

Mark: And there was guys sat at the front on those old-fashioned, you know, pub chairs, and they were cradling their beers, slowly making their way through the beers, as people stood at the front, not behind a lectern, or anything like that. It was all filmed from an awkward angle. You could tell there was only about 20 people in the room, because there was a, … You know, people were applauding. But there was a notable lack of applause. And it did look like such a throwback to the 1970s!

And that little group, I think they disappeared already, they were going to sweep PA away, they were going to be a fresh future for the Right in Britain.

[35:00]

But that group had everything wrong with it! Was one of those groups that apologizes for everything! Denies that the English, and the Scottish, the Welsh, and the Irish are distinct ethnic groups.

And on top of that, they were doing their meetings in a way that has been so overdone, and it just puts people off! Because it’s a negative stereotype that nationalism often plays up to. And I think that, because we do everything so differently, they’re kind of in love with us, but they’re terrified of us at the same time!

Laura: Do you know, they were saying that we were:

“Playing fake clapping sounds over our speeches?”

So like your audience was actually really small and you were playing fake clapping sounds of, ..

Mark: Oh no, this is brilliant! You see, because you see, this is such wonderful projection! Because they can only get 20, or so, people at their meetings, they have to assume that we’ve only got 20, or so, people at our meetings! So they’re thinking how could we get such good applause at our next meeting? Well PA must be playing an applause track!

No! No! You could just times your meeting attendance by 10 and have the same number of people at your meetings that PA does. [chuckling] But that, to them, they don’t understand that! Because they can’t imagine why we’re popular! They think we’re unpopular. They think we’re the bad guys! They think by standing up there and saying that the English don’t exist, that all of a sudden all these blacks, all these minorities, they’ll be rushing through the door to join “Integrity Purple”, you know, it’s just not gonna happen! Because no one wants that.

The fact is everyone is becoming racinated, and White people are looking for any group that’s big enough and strong enough to stand up and say:

“Hey! We stand up for the White people!”

And the best thing is, people will call us a “bad guy”, but the fact is, sometimes you need somebody who’s gonna stand up, take the abuse, and say:

“So what? We’re not backing down!”

And ultimately I think at a time like this, people are going to respect that.

Horus: Damn right! Integrity, I think in a way, they asked it around, because haven’t they just basically become Hearts of Oak? I think it’s the same guys. It’s Peter McElveen and Alan Craig, they’re certainly the two who run Hearts of Oak. I think they were the founders of Integrity, as well.

Mark: And they just, so basically [chuckling] they lasted about three months! [laughter] There was also this guy who calls himself “Steve Speaker’s Corner”, who thinks he’s a real big deal. He’s one of those, I’ve never, this is gonna sound really bad, and I [chuckling] probably shouldn’t say this. But do you understand, I don’t understand those Speaker’s Corner people. I don’t understand those people who go and stand at Speaker’s Corner and just shout at other people, who have diametrically opposed ideas! And they just screech each other all day and go home, and think that’s going to change the discourse.

But they had a guy at the Integrity [word unclear] meeting called Steve Speaker’s Corner. And he’s one of these people who just thinks that if everyone who comes there, is given a little plastic flag and waves it with all their might, that makes them absolutely British! And they should all be integrated and then we’ll all be one big happy, multi-coloured, family! What a joke organization they are!

Horus: He’s the sort of person who shows that civic nationalism is really just a leftist thing, right? He seems to have his main mission as just defeating ethnic nationalism. And it’s just ridiculous! It’s a joke! Complete joke! He’s really effeminate as well.

Laura: I think he’s always asking me to debate him on YouTube. And I just muted him, because I don’t know who he is. But Mark I want to to ask you, did you see that that Wikipedia early life guy that you’ve debated, was photographed with antifa?

Mark: I did. Joseph Cohen. Yes, indeed. And that doesn’t surprise me either and that’s another thing that I absolutely love about the civic nationalists! The civic nationalists, they can never ever say it’s anybody’s fault if it’s a person of color. So they’re very much like the Left.

[NOTE: I haven’t put this transcript up yet.]

And I saw all of this during the “Black Lives Matter” events, riots, looting. All of the civic nationalists were saying that it was White antifa that caused the problems, that whipped the blacks up, that made them do the crazy things. And if only the White antifa weren’t there, the blacks would all be waving flags and would be good patriots, and would be fitting in and integrating.

And it’s so funny, because these civic nationalists don’t realize just how close they are, to their liberal foes in terms of their narrative. They, just as much as the liberals, like to blame White people for all the failings of blacks! And it’s the same when you look at people like Joseph Cohen. If you said to all these civnats:

“Oh! There’s a group called the Israel Advocacy Movement.”

They’d all be falling over themselves to join up, and make a donation. And here you have the leader, or the organizer, of this group, and he’s there with the antifa, opposing the very people who would fall over themselves to donate to them. It’s hilarious!

These people are so blinkered, but blinkered by choice, for some of them, because they actually choose to ignore the facts we’re talking about.

Horus: I mean, Laura’s debate with Rikki Doolan, spoke volumes, because I mean, he fits in with civic nationalism. And he really, in most ways, he fits in with antifa. Like, because I think we’d all agree that antifa functions as an arm of the State, in a lot of ways. I mean, they wouldn’t admit that themselves, but, ..

Ayatollah: Definitely. Yeah.

Horus: Yeah, they serve the purposes of the State. They act as sort of an auxiliary terrorist organization against people, you know, against anyone who tries to organize as patriots, or nationalists. And I would say some civic nationalists are so stupid that they’re like an arm of antifa, also without realizing it. And they’ll convince themselves that they’re enemies of them, but they serve almost exactly the same purpose. It’s like suppressing racial consciousness.

And then in the case of people like Rikki Doolan especially, they do it really cack-handedly as well! [chuckling] I mean, that was beautiful! So, well done again Laura.

Ayatollah: Yeah, this is the thing as well, just to add to that really quickly is, … I made this point when we were on PWR, and I also made it on the episode of TASOB the week before last. Where we had Mark and Laura on.

The more these people have got to answer us and the more they’ve got to engage with us, the more we can expose them. And what gets exposed is the fact that again, as you’ve all said, that their founding assumptions, their principles, are those of the Left. Because ultimately all they are, is impotent hostages to the Left. They’re hostages!

In a lot of cases they’ve got Stockholm syndrome, they believe in blank slateism, egalitarianism. And the really important one, Mark pointed out of course the example of how if a statue gets pulled down, they’ll say:

“Well it wasn’t the based blacks, it was White antifa, and whatever.”

Yeah, again it’s like:

“Shall not speak ill of the non-Whites under any circumstances!”

You know, there are no circumstances under which they can ever attribute blame to a non-Whites. Unless they’re blaming the non-White for being insufficiently liberal. So they can be critical of Muslims on those grounds, for example, to give you an example of one group, but on no other grounds. And the other sort of trait they’ll again, recourse to, is the “tactical nihilism”:

“Well, what even is English? What even is British? What is White?”

And again, the they really are just hostages! Because I mean, I think back to an article on the For Britain website, in which somebody sort of did a hit piece on Patriotic Alternative and then he was saying, he wasn’t actually called Graham surprisingly.

I think he might have been the one person involved other than, you know, Anne-Marie Whiskey, [Mark laughing] sorry Anne Marie Waters, who isn’t called “Graham”. I thought you had to change your name by deed poll, you know, Golden Grahams at the For Britain conference for like, you know, start a main course, for dessert.

But yeah, like he said:

“These people are the real racists, maybe we should report them to Hope Not Hate?”

And it’s like you’re threatening to grass on somebody to your own abusers! Because again these people get pilloried and attacked by Hope Not Hate, the likes themselves. It’s also interesting, like another one of these lower tier things, I don’t know, like “Resisting Hate”, or something like that?

One of these things, some months ago published this blog post saying like, :

“Well we’ve battled with the counter.”

Well they didn’t call them Counter-Jihad, …:

“We battled with the Islamophobes and the EDL types, and whatever, for years!”

And they’re almost sort of openly hearkening back on it, as like the good old days! Like, :

“Because we’ve got a bigger problem now! We’ve got racinated White people, collectivising as White people!”

And now, you know, it’s the end of level boss forum! Like:

“Those are the good old days, because those people they did our heads in, but they weren’t that bad! Now we’ve really got a problem, because look at it now, we’ve got this situation!”

Where they’re sort of, they’re having to deal with the real thing. And it’s like well I wish we could deal with people that would just backpedal all the time have and try and tell us how they weren’t racist after all and try and be on the back foot and defend themselves. And only put their guard up, rather than punch back.

And that’s why all these things like Hearts of Oak, and whatever else have and Integrity, or whatever. I’ve forgotten that even existed to be honest. It only rang a distant bell. They’re always dead ends! Because ultimately they can’t be honest! They can’t be honest, and there’s no sort of visceral appeal to it really, to anybody that’s got any sort of agency, and any will to really do anything. And so it’s all a bit, I wouldn’t even go as far as to say it’s a lot. But yeah, above all they’re hostages to principles which are by design anti-White and designed to work against our people! That’s it!

[45:00]

Horus: I would just mention, at this point, Gerard Batten as well, is kind of in the middle of a tug of war between us and the sort of committed civic nationalists. Because Batten, I don’t know if people have been following this, like he’s spent most of the last week on Twitter kind of counter-signaling us. But also he’s got a history of tweeting things that are very much consistent with proper nationalism, and even racial thinking. I mean, he’s spoken about replacement, you know, :

“Gerard, if that’s not about race, what on earth are you referring to?”

But he’s got this poll, I think it’s still open for another day, or so, and we’re winning it. And it’s:

“Do we want to, …?”

I can’t remember the question, but it’s basically civic versus ethnic nationalism. And we are winning 60 – 40 when I last looked. And there’s been loads of votes! Like 12,000 votes, or more. That was this morning as well.

But he, I mean, we all know that he’s married to an Asian lady, and I think he’s maybe got mixed-race children and stuff. So for him obviously you can see why he’s got a motive for trying to buttress the civic nationalist narrative.

On the other hand he does know, I think he does acknowledge the truth. It’s like that this country is not going to still be Britain if it becomes 70, 80 percent African-Asian, right? He knows, because he said — this is one of the things that people have sort of leapt on him — for he said that:

“Race is hard to pin down.”

I don’t disagree with him there. Race is not an easy thing to define. But it still is there, you know, orange is not an easy thing to define, but we still don’t say that orange doesn’t exist. And so I think he’s, in a way, he’s kind of sparring with us. He’s kind of saying:

“Sharpen up your arguments and I will move more in your direction.”

Whether we care, or not, is it is another debate, you know, whether we need Batten.

But I mean, I suppose, I don’t know if you’re about to change the topic Laura, but just maybe I could just mention this thing I had on Friday evening. I went on.

Laura: Yeah, go ahead, yeah.

Horus: I went on Unity News Network, which I think it’s David Vance’s thing, I think he set that that, but it was David Klues who hosts their Friday night show. And it’s open to call-ins, like phone calls. And I phoned in, intending to groyp him really. I mean, I’ve never groyped before, and I was sort of thinking I’ll do a sort of practice groyp.

But, the guy took it in such good faith, and, in fact, picked it up and ran with it and asked me all sorts of questions. Nothing like calling into the big radio stations. But I ended up talking to him for an hour! And he knew all our talking points! [chuckling] And he, without me saying it, mentioned PA. He mentioned “White racial consciousness”, he used that phrase I think. And all these things, right? So him and I assume most of his audience are really talking the same language.

And that just makes me think, like we are in such a good position for reaching out to people at the moment. Loads of people are thinking along the same lines as we are. A lot of them don’t feel like they’re allowed to go as far as we do.

But that’s how I see that as our job, in meta-political terms, is making people feel like they can say exactly what they think! And I think we’re doing quite a good job with that at the moment. So everyone just needs to carry on.

I mean, White Lives Matter Day was just was brilliant for that! It let’s people all over the country know you have friends! You have a network and a community that you can join! So it was such a great initiative, and carried out so well!

I mean, I think Laura, or Mark, one of you guys, said you had no idea how many pictures would come in. And it’s just so encouraging, right? So I think we’re doing well.

Laura: Yeah we had over 300 pictures in total and and then, we weren’t sure how many we’d get in. I think we knew we had maybe at least five groups that were going to go out and do something. But for us to get over 300 pictures!

And obviously some of those pictures, like some people might have sent us three different pictures. But some people might have only sent us one picture. It was just mental, wasn’t it Mark! We just we had people all over Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, England. And then we had people in like America, I think was it Denmark, we had people as well. Yeah it was just such a show of force, and such a show of optimism and enthusiasm it was brilliant!

Mark: Canada, America, Denmark, Spain, Ibiza, Greece, and as far afield as New Zealand! It was amazing!

And whenever you do something like that you obviously want people to get on board. And to a degree, you are nervous. You’re thinking:

“Well we’ve asked everyone to go out and do this. We’re still quite a nebulous organization. We don’t have a head office. We don’t have branches in every city, and town, in the UK. And we’re not funding this centrally.”

We’re saying to people:

“Well you can either buy a banner, or you can print off a poster, or a sticker, or you can go and write ‘White Lives Matter’ in the sand on a local beach.”

And, you know, people are going to do it. You know, some people get it, but you never know how many. And you never know if it’s going to fall flat on its face.

But I can honestly say, I was not expecting as many people to get involved. I was blown away by the support! I’m so thankful that everyone pulled together! And to see people online saying:

“This was one of the biggest White pills they’ve ever seen. This made them feel part of an international community.”

That fills me with absolute happiness! Because that’s exactly what we’re trying to do. We’re not doing this to say:

“Ha! Ha! You know, isn’t PA the biggest and the best!”

We’re doing this so that people walk away from the day and go:

“Wow! I’m part of a massive international community! And I’m part of something! I’m not on my own anymore. I feel as if I’m part of this big group that everyone around me is looking out for me and doing the same thing as me! And I’m not isolated anymore! I’m not alone!”

And that’s what this is all about. And I think the feedback, and the feeling of kinship, and friendship, and being part of something bigger, really raised everyone’s spirits.

And as far as I’m concerned there isn’t any other group, especially not in Britain, doing anything like that! If you look at what other groups in Britain are doing it’s either the same tired and worn activities, or it’s quite simply just grifting. No one’s doing the kind of activities we are! And we’ve got plenty more things planned. And I hope that we can keep raising everyone’s morale. I hope that we can keep bringing people together.

And the fact that this weekend there are a number of different activities — which I’ve only just been told of today, that I didn’t know about — happening all over the country. That just shows how big we are getting. People are now feeling empowered just to hold their own events just to meet with other people. Just to do some little or some big activities.

But that’s what we need! And I’m filled with happiness, because I know that there’s so many people out there who before we started PA, they felt so alone and so isolated. And they don’t feel that way anymore.

When we started this we said primarily this was about community building. And we’re not only community building, but we really are dragging the Overton Window in our direction.

And I’ve just got to add this one last thing. None of these other shill parties were talking about race! None of them would even use the word “White” until we popped up. And it’s so funny how groups like For Britain attack me constantly, and say that I’m never gonna get anywhere, that I’ll never have any influence, that I’m wasting everyone’s time! Well if I was never going to get anywhere, if I was never going to influence anyone, then why on earth are they now talking about demographics?

And why is Anne Marie Waters talking about writing a book called “The War on White”? She’s using the word “White”, because we made her! And don’t let her ever forget that!

Laura: Well, she openly said in her video that she did about demographics that she was taking control of that issue now to stop extremists from picking it up and running with it! Because that’s our topic isn’t it, demographics? But yeah, I’m gonna read through some superchats if that’s okay.

So yeah. So there’s a few superchats. So let’s go through them. So there’s one from Gamergames for five pounds and it says:

“I am sorry you have to deal with this anti-woman rhetoric Laura. They are an embarrassment to us, it’s a shame feminism has totally soured them on women.”

Well, thank you very, very much for the superchat and like seriously don’t worry about it. I don’t pay any attention to anything that they say. There’s also a ten pounds from Lord Ian in Houston and it says:

“Many, many happy returns Laura!”

Thank you very much. 20 pounds from Me in It and it says:

“Happy birthday! Lovely lady!”

Thank you very much. Angelo Scott has superchatted five pounds and it says:

“Come on tell it in capital letters!”

I’m not sure what we were talking about. And then there’s 10 pounds from Lord Ian in Houston again. And it says:

“There is only one movement to be part of, Patriotic Alternative. It’s time for change!”

Indeed there is. And if anybody who’s listening who hasn’t registered on the Patriotic Alternative website yet, do go and do that, because you’ll be added to our mailing list and you’ll get emails about all of our events and everything that we’re getting up to. And also thank you for the superchat.

There’s one from Theolac for 20 CHF. I’m not sure what that is. Hmm, I’m not sure what currency that is. And there’s no message. But thank you very much for the superchat.

[55:00]

Damien Demento nine pound 99 pence. And it said:

“Happy birthday Laura! Enjoy it’s well deserved!”

Thank you so much that’s very sweet. Michael Stoddard superchatted five US dollars and said:

“My challenge. I have five Anglo-Saxon kids, highly educated and accomplished. Go do likewise!”

I will do my best. [chuckling] But thank you for the superchat. Kevin Savage superchatted five pounds and said:

“The next time I vote it will be for PA. I hope it’s soon.”

That would be amazing I would love to vote for Peter as well myself, hopefully one day. And thank you for the superchat. There’s a few more to go through. DB Cooper superchatted five US dollars and said:

“Much love from the states! Keep up the good work. Let’s all go free from the anti-White narrative.”

Thank you very much for the superchat. Color Sergeant Bourne superchatted five pounds and said:

“Ethno nationalism is the only antidote to this chaos. Looking forward to Mark Collett and Laura Towler ruling GB! Anglos are rising!”

Thank you very much. And Theolac has superchatted another 10 CHF. I’m not sure what that is. Do you guys know what currency?

Ayatollah: Might be, it’s not Swiss francs is it? Yeah, I think it is Swiss francs. Yeah.

Laura: So it says:

“This is a high class high intelligence stream today congrats! Hope Not Hate have promoted PA despite their efforts.”

Thank you very much. And there’s a superchat from Belligerent Governor for five pounds. It says:

“Any thoughts on the March for Children and Veterans on Saturday? Active Patriot had a live stream on the event.”

I have actually followed this, but Active Patriot and I are mutuals on Twitter, although we’ve never spoken. Have you guys seen what they March for Children and Veterans thing is?

Horus: I haven’t seen that. No.

Ayatollah: Is it Nottingham? I’m not sure.

Laura: No I’m not 100 percent sure what it is. We’ll have to look into that. But, you know, anything that brings attention to the issues that matters we support it.

Lord Ian Houston superchatted ten pounds and says:

“If PA require funding for projects just ask.”

Well, thank you that’s very sweet. We do actually have a donation button on the website now. And for the last 11 months Mark and I have paid for everything ourself. And there is a way to donate to PA now if you do support our work. We don’t send out begging emails, or anything like that.

But if people do like the work that we do, then there is that option. But thank you for the superchat. I think that’s four superchats from this person.

Ayatollah: He’s giving all his money to you, hasn’t he? In one stream!

Laura: There’s nothing left for PA it’s all going on my birthday stream! [chuckling] And then there’s Daryl who’s superchatted five pounds. And it says:

“The “something” like let’s do a “blankety blank”. The “blank” forced multiculturalism on Europe! Say no to genocide!”

Does anyone know what the (((blank))) might be? We probably shouldn’t answer it.

Ayatollah: Yeah, no idea [chuckling]

Laura: Thank you for the superchat. And then there’s Daniel Archer for five pounds. And it says:

“Thank you all for your hard work with PA. You guys are doing great!”

Thank you so much. Bugleby superchatted ten pounds:

“Happy birthday Laura! Have a break.”

Thank you very much. And the Lovely Irish Rose, nine pounds 99 pence:

“Happy birthday Laura! Hope you’ve had a good one.”

Thank you very much. Johanna’s Day five pounds. As much as, yeah, what’s that, sorry?

Ayatollah: I just said:

“Oh not him.”

Laura: Sorry do you know, who it is?

Ayatollah: Yeah.

Laura: But it’s I’m not sure what this is its a quote:

“As winter approaches the animals go into hibernation, and the ridiculousness of the 999 calls.”

I don’t know. [chuckling]

Ayatollah: I do, I do! I should explain it. It’s not that bad. Alex McNabb from TDS was like a paramedic and then he got hauled out after like Huffington Post did an expose on him. And he got hauled up in front of his like local like EMT paramedic sort of administration. And he was getting railed against by the bloke running it, who was quite a funny character, and now deceased unfortunately. Her name was like Boyce, god rest him. But he was then reading out excerpts from this satirical thing that Alex McNabb did on the TDS podcast. And that was one of the things you read out. But yeah, I’ll put a link on my Twitter account to a video of the hearings. But yeah, I’ll digress.

Laura: Yeah, well thanks for explaining that and also Johannes thanks for the superchat.

Sally Annette superchatted five pounds and said:

“Happy birthday Laura!”

Thank you very much. Jt Smith 101 five pounds:

“Please help promote Patriotic Alternative, all our good folks.”

Thank you very much. Julian Martin four US dollars and 99 cents.:

“What do you guys think of the National Party in Ireland?”

I actually know nothing at all about the National Party. Do either of you three know anything about it?

Horus: Yeah. Keith Woods is pretty positive about them. Yeah and they’re proper nationalists, I think. They did a good action I mean, I think they’re pretty small. I think they’re polling something like one, or two percent, or something.

But I think they did a good action recently [60:00] against like, pedophiles sort of ingratiating themselves into the Irish government in the form of Peter Tatchell. He’s not pedophile, but he’s a pedophile condoner, I think. Yeah, National Party seem quite solid, I think. Yeah.

Laura: All right, okay. I’ve never heard of them, but we’ll have to check them out then. So thank you Julian for the superchat. And there’s just a few more to get through. Roger Richard for 20 US dollars:

“Love you guys! Keep up the good work.”

Thank you very much. Tilak, 410 CHF:

“I would love to drop some more shekels, but YouTube is taking too much. You should run Entropy in parallel.”

I actually should get Entropy. I will try and get Entropy for next time. And thank you for the superchat.

David Marcus, 10 pounds:

“Thoughts on mandatory vaccinations coming our way?”

I’m not taking a mandatory vaccination. What do you three think?

Mark: Absolutely not!

Horus: Yeah, I’m in favor of like organized action to prevent that’s evil!

Laura: Yeah we need to actually explore in more depth, I think. Mark I think you and I spoke about it quite briefly once. But the stuff that they’re allowed to do you know, taking your way into isolation and all that stuff, it’s mental! So we should actually produce some content on it I think.

Ayatollah: Yeah. If you believe your establishment is under hostile control, and is basically engaged in dispossessing and destroying you, and you believe they’re profoundly evil, then like why would you have unquestioning trust in them to have the right intentions when it comes to vaccinations and so on, and so forth. I can’t really say a lot more on it than that.

But yeah, I mean, that potentially if that really sort of happens and there’s enough resistance to it, it could actually be a good way of conveying nationalist thinking to people really, and getting them on board with it.

Laura: Yeah. I can’t imagine many people accepting that.

Ayatollah: No. There’s a lot of skepticism.

Laura: Yeah, definitely. It’s intrusive. But thank you David for the superchat. And Lord Ian Houston superchatted two pounds and said:

“1, 200 likes equals 50 pounds for the Laura Tea Fund. Easy ask!”

Ah thank you. I don’t think I’m anywhere near that, 800 likes, so if I get another 400 likes. But thank you for the superchat.

Carlos Tasty Wiener superchatted three Australian dollars, and just a little picture of a dancing pair. Thank you for that. And I’ll do two more.

Eddie from Glasgow five pounds and it says:

“Happy birthday Laura! Keep up the good work folks.”

Thank you very much.

And then there’s one from Mark Mullett and it says, five pounds:

“All you are brilliant! Mark Collett for PM within the next 10 years. We can do it!”

I would love to see Mark as the Prime Minister within the next 10 years. Mark, if you’re the Prime Minister can I be the Minister of Repatriation?

Mark: Umm, no! [laughter]

Laura: Why not?

Mark: You are supposed to be Deputy Leader, so that is your role! You would be Deputy! You can’t then run off and have your own other Department, as well as being Deputy! You’ve got to be Deputy.

Horus: The Prime Minister hogs the best.

Mark: But then I’d have to find a new Deputy, and that would be time consuming and annoying! It’s job that everyone wants to do, the deportations.

Horus: Obviously it’s not only the Minister of Repatriation that’s the plum job. Also the person who actually gets to physically do the action. It’s also really going to be really enjoyable! Like I actually dream, .

Mark: Repatriation gets to sort of go around in like an armored car literally, .

Ayatollah: With 15 grand!

Mark: [laughter] Loading illegal migrants onto carriers, or anything. I’m not sure it works like that guys.

Horus: I want to have a boat ready. And I want to have like a gang plank leading up to it. And I push David Lammy up to the door of the boat. And I put like a muddy boot print on his bum as he goes in! I really want to do that! [chuckling]

Laura: Yeah, I legitimately have fantasies about doing things like that [chuckling]

Mark: I can tell you this, if this stream had been on my YouTube channel, my YouTube channel would not exist anymore! [chuckling] this is such a miracle we are still live!

Horus: We’ll rein it in, I’m sorry.

Laura: We’re obviously talking about in Minecraft, because in real life, obviously we’re just talking about in Minecraft. And do you guys want to talk about the second topic, because I’m actually really impressed with this. Horus, of course, I think you should lead on this, because. Was It’s to do with Operation Broken Fence. Do you want to introduce that?

Horus: Yeah, all right. So I suppose if you put it in one sentence it would be, like a lot of us spend a lot of time online anyway on social media, Twitter especially. I’m calling for everyone who pays any attention to me [65:00], or to others around me, and to just make the most of that time online. And by that, I generally refer to [chuckling] I don’t want to single them out, but, you know, Friendly Spurg on, … I don’t know if he’s listening, but he’s a good fellow. He’s a bright fella. I assume he’s quite young, as well.

But he’s on Adam’s Friday Night Britain podcast, which is pretty good. Everyone should check it out. He spends his time arguing with people online, who are just not only never going to be swayed, or like persuaded of that position, but are also likely to report him! I’m saying, let’s do the exact opposite of that. And it’s look out for people quite focusedly, find people who are already frustrated patriots but who feel like they’ve got no one looking out for them and tell them about PA.

And so it consists mainly in identifying threads where there’s a lot of replies, you know, a few dozen, or more, sometimes obviously hundreds. And there’s two main things. One is just look at who’s retweeted these things. Say there’s a thread saying:

“How can we let these people have hotels when there’s veterans on the streets?”

Absolutely, right? Just look at who’s retweeting that, follow all of them right. And then 24 hours later all the ones who haven’t followed you back, unfollow them. That gets your follower account up with highly active people, and people of similar mind, right?

So you’re blending your following with new people. You’re widening your circle with people who want to hear what you want to say, and who want representation.

And the second thing, which is probably I don’t know, more maybe more time consuming. But I think it is quite fruitful, is go in the reply, never ever waste any time replying to the actual main tweet, because by and large, you know, a huge timeline full of replies. Don’t bother replying to them, pointless, waste of time!

Go through and look at all the people replying. You will find especially now with this illegal immigrant invasion going on across the channel, loads of people going:

“I can’t believe I voted Tory!”

Right. Tell them about PA! They’re crying out for it! Send them the plan, or just send them the home page. And say:

“Look there’s a mailing list on here. You can stay in the loop.”

I hope this, you know, you guys who run the website you can tell me if this is actually a good tactic from your end. I mean, I don’t know, maybe you’ve got a limit on the mailing list, or whatever. But if not, I’m basically just trying to tell people:

“Get in the loop, right! You don’t have to join. Doesn’t cost you any money. You’re not committed to anything. But you can just hear from an organization that wants to stand up for you!”

So it’s just, because it’s kind of like evangelizing right? And I tell, you know, there’s other tips that go along with this. Don’t be rude. Don’t be obnoxious in any way. Don’t tell people that they’re sheep. You know, [chuckling] anything like that. Also don’t be really blunt and extreme. Don’t obviously post pictures of the Austrian painter! Don’t lead in with, don’t just go:

“Watch ‘Europa the Last Battle’!”

See: EUROPA – The Last Battle – Part 01 — TRANSCRIPT

It’s too, it’s like going in dry, you know what I mean! You’ve gotta have some sense of where they are, right? And who wants to hear what, you know, who wants slogans? Who wants essays? Who wants, … But by and large, posting the plan, people love it! Honestly! You get people every day going:

“Wow! This plan is amazing!”

Right. So I’ve already got a few people doing this. And yeah it works. Especially as you work in a team. I see say Steve Stream Fellow, he’s one guy on Twitter who does it. I’ll see he’s talking to someone, it comes up in my feed. And I’ll then reply to that person who showed some interest. I’ll say to them:

“Oh yeah just if you look on the main page of this website, there’s a mailing list you can join.”

Or others will reply, and just:

“Go follow the Twitter account.”

That’s taking the Twitter account. So we just, you know, working as a team. And we’re just getting more and more people into the sort of the wide circle, getting informed about what PA is doing. And so it really all it is, is just organized and, you know, coordinated Twitter activity.

Also there’s people doing it on Facebook. Facebook’s somewhat different, because you’re using your real name and, you know, it works differently. The site works differently. But Twitter’s great for it! Because it’s just so open! And the other thing I would say about it is just I did a stream on this a couple of months ago. So you can see that on my BitChute channel is just called “Operation Broken Fence”.

But I keep banging on about it all the time. And my main aim with it is just to get dozens of us doing it. And together we’ll have a far stronger effect than one person doing it. And it’s just, you know, every day another few dozen, or even a few hundred more people who haven’t heard of PA, who want a group like PA, are hearing about it. And I really think it’s working.

So anyone listening, you know, all you need is a Twitter account. And I’ve told you how to get your follower account up again. I mean, I’ve got nearly 7000 followers now. At the start of 2019, I had, I think, less than 1000. And I got it up by the method I said, just following and unfollowing. And I did it by looking out for popular tweets by Gerard Batten, typically.

But there’s others, like Farage, and so on. Batten’s a good one, because he [70:00] straddles civinat and ethno-nationalist. You know, he says some ethnat things. So you you’ll just see exactly the kind of people who are ready to hear our message are following him and retweeting his stuff.

So I hope that gives some explanation of it. It’s just being trying to be efficient with your time online, and on social media. Trying to get as much out of it as you can.

Laura: Yeah. So there’s the hashtag Operation Broken Fence. If you go check that out on Twitter you can see all of our guys doing this. And I actually manage the Patriotic Alternative Twitter account, and I see our guys sending the plan to people and then comments from those people saying:

“Thanks. I’ll check it out.”

And then they follow us. And it happens quite a lot, every single day. And our followers are going up quite fast, because I think when it’s one-on-one and, rather than you just reading somebody else’s comment, you’re actually getting a message saying “check out this”, you do click on it. And you do have a look. So it might take you, you know, 20, 30 seconds, or something to write our tweet and send it to somebody. But it does seem to have a big impact.

And our followers are going up, and lots of new people are checking up PA. So it’s a really good tactic! If you are on Twitter and you’re just messing about, you’re scrolling through, you’ve got a spare half an hour, or something, just send people our plan, or just the website, or there’s a guy called Steve that usually sends my videos and says:

“Laura’s the deputy of PA. What do you think about this?”

He actually finds specific topics that people are talking about. So if somebody’s complaining about indoctrination in the education system, he’ll send them one of my videos about that.

Or if somebody’s complaining about the environment being damaged, because of mass immigration, he’ll send them my video about that. It’s just really good! Yeah, it’s just helping people discover PA.

So Horus I need to say thank you for doing this, and also everybody else who’s been helping out. Mark. What do you think?

Mark: I think this is an incredible idea! And Horus said something that’s so important. And it’s something that we’ve said as well in the past. Don’t waste your time arguing with people who are diametrically opposed to you! Don’t waste your time talking to people who are never, ever, going to come over to the other side! Or to our side, should I say.

Now the issue you’ve got here is highlighted by Rikki Doolan. He spent the, I think this Saturday, down in Nottingham. And there’s some really cringe-worthy footage of that guy, where he’s arguing with antifa. And he’s desperately saying to them:

“But don’t all lives matter? You’ve got to agree that everyone’s lives matter, don’t they?”

And he’s trying to win these people over! He’s trying to beg them! He’s trying to prove to them that he’s not racist! He’s trying to out debate them. They’re not joining his movement! He’s wasting his time!

What you need to do, is speak to people who are just about to join our movement. Who are sick of UKIP, who have probably been through several political parties. Are looking for real answers, real solutions. Talk to them! Don’t waste your time!

And I see loads of nationalists doing this. They’re in all these public debate groups on Facebook, and they spend hours in these back and forths with people having the same arguments, day in, day out, being led round by the nose by the same group of trolls! Don’t! Absolute complete waste of time! Do what Horus is saying. It works, it’s a really good use of your time. That is what you want to be doing.

Horus: And with antifa type people as well, they just want to get you booted off. They just want to de-platform you. So, I just block anyone who looks anything like antifa, whatsoever. And another tip is like vary your tweets a little bit. Like don’t just post exactly the same tweet partly also, because Twitter will maybe treat you as a spam bot if you do that. But also just, because it looks robotic if someone, you know, thinks what you’re saying is interesting but they look on your feed and they see that you’ve spammed it to everyone else. Don’t do that right, because it just looks robotic to them. So vary it about, which does take a little bit more time. But it’s worth it.

Also, anyone who wants to contribute who hasn’t got much time, if you see something in your timeline that just looks like a thread that’s going to be full of people replying who are, you know, fertile ground for our message, just retweet it with the hashtag operationbrokenfence. And me, or one of the other accounts will see it and retweet it and get it going. So it just becomes a team effort.

And I just, yeah, I’ll echo again what Mark said. I’m so glad that we agree on this. Like it’s just, do not bother talking to people who are just committed enemies of us! It’s going nowhere! And just the mention of Rikki Doolan, just makes me laugh as well. [chuckling]

Laura: Yeah! Ayatolla, did you want to jump in?

Ayatollah: Yeah. This sort of thing does work, but as both Mark and Horus have said, the key is look we’ve only got so much time. The key is to know who’s likely to be receptive and who can be brought around. And obviously that sort of common sense. You can gauge that by the sort of things they’re saying [75:01]. And it’s a matter of knowing how to talk to people.

I mean, I sort of think, you know, I probably wouldn’t be the best for this really, because I tend to sort of favor the aggressive Socratic question. But then that’s usually when I’m dealing with people that I’ve got utter contempt for, rather than people I’m trying to bring round.

Again, you know, you’ve got to be sort of friendly with people. And in some ways you can sort of present maybe the Socratic question in a way that is just making it clear that it’s favorable to their interests. It’s like:

“Well why do you think?”

You know in fact, a lot of times you don’t want to talk about “you”, because don’t make them feel like they’re an idiot, like they’ve been hoodwinked, you know. Don’t say:

“This is what they’re trying to do to you! This is how they’re trying to make you think!”

Say:

“This is how they make us think.”

So you’re making it an “us and them”. You know, your language and the subtleties are important. But don’t think this sort of thing in general doesn’t make a difference. I mean, I can tell you now, I talk to a lot of our listeners, and in the time I’ve been doing that, it’s immensely encouraging, because you hear about people who’ve had their views changed radically in a short space of time by listening to a couple of podcasts and whatever. Just through things they’ve learned, and just through certain little rhetorical questions that they’ve had put to them while they’re listening. It can come in many forms.

Obviously a lot of people are sort of racially awakened by things like the “Black Lives Matter” situation, and so on, and so forth.

I’ve also had people tell me that that their knowledge was expanded and their views change dramatically by reading comments on YouTube videos. Reading, not watching the videos, you know, obviously they’ve watched the videos, but reading the comments. And so everybody can contribute to this.

Again as we said you don’t need a YouTube channel, you don’t need a sort of a major profile, like that. You don’t need a podcast. You just need the knowledge and you need the will to contribute.

But again, it does need to be sort of organized, and people need to sort of share their knowledge of what works, and sort of do it in a concerted way. Which is what’s so good about what Horus has been doing, and what he’s been leading.

And another thing that’s important in this, and this sort of goes back to something we were talking about earlier with regard to making people know they’re not alone, and they’ve got friends, and they’ve got people who think the same way, and have the same questions about the situation in which we find ourselves, and about where the power lies, is, … Volume is important as well, because a majority of people, they’re decent people, but they’re not going to be renegades. They’re going to be led.

They’re going to think there’s something wrong with them if they have the impression they’re in a minority thinking the way they do. They’re going to need validation by numbers. So if they see a lot of people saying the same sort of thing it’s like:

“Well, I’m not morally flawed. I’m not a bad person. I’m not losing my mind! I am right!”

You know, we’re a social species, so that’s natural. So we need a lot of people doing it sometimes, because obviously, you know, engaging with people one-on-one is obviously one thing, but in the sort of the gamut of these sort of tactics more broadly, yeah, the reason we talked with such glee about people like, was it Unilad getting ratioed when they did the thing on Indigenous People’s Day? Is, because it’s one thing that you’ve got a load of people saying:

“Well I totally agree with what they’re doing.”

That’s great! And that’s a great sign of where we already are. But how many more people would have read that and thought:

“Yeah there’s nothing wrong with me thinking the world I think, because I agree with these people. But I was in denial about it and I would have been afraid to say it. But actually now I can see there’s loads of other people that agree.”

So how many more people now have come out about it? That’s what’s so important about having volume! That’s also why the enemy tries so hard to sort of atomize us and to shut us up, because god almighty! If people had the impression that, yeah, most people agree with this!

See: Laura Towler – We Were Never Asked – Oct 24, 2019 — Transcript

That’s why they were so annoyed about “We Were Never Asked” and coming out 70 percent of people don’t want to be a minority in their own country! If people, if they have the sense they’re not alone and that everyone agrees with them, well they’ve got a massive problem on their hands!

Horus: And the enemy are so good at making themselves look big as well.

Ayatollah: Yes.

Horus: The other thing I was going to say is that you touched on YouTube. Yeah, and I think John Smithy in the chat put the same thing. We can do exactly the same thing on YouTube as well. I mean, it’s a little harder, obviously you can’t use hashtags on YouTube, but organized YouTube comment domination is also very effective! Some people have found the Right through YouTube comments.

So by all means if anyone wants to organize the equivalent, I mean, Telegram can be good for this. Some equivalent for dominating YouTube. And as I said before, Facebook as well. We’re totally not making the most of Facebook, yet. I’ve gone for Twitter, because it’s the easiest so far. But other ideas on how to dominate YouTube comments and Facebook, like what we did with Unilad, was very, very encouraging! By all means throw that forward as well. We can call that all Operation Broken Fence. I mean, it’s great.

The reason it’s called “Operation Broken Fence” is, because it’s an operation to get people off the fence! And that works so well for us, because hardly anyone wants to get off the fence and move further Leftward! All the people who want to go Left have already gone, I think. [chuckling] So breaking the fence just sways everyone our way instead. Sorry, what did you say?

Ayatollah: No, I’m saying that they’re encouraged to. Like I remember I was on a normie Facebook account I had a while ago. I saw somebody in a group called his Facebook name, he was some middle aged bloke, with a middle class job, or whatever. And his Facebook name was “Left Wing Dave”, or something like that. [80:01] We were in the same apolitical group for something. I just thought:

“Well that’s nice isn’t it?”

Because there’s virtue points in that for you isn’t there? For sort of banging on about austerity and how wonderful the NHS is, and how Boris is a slightly better than average, you know, artist from a village in, you know, Austria, or whatever! [chuckling].

So yeah, I mean, I’m getting quite convoluted with these dog whistles now. [chuckling] Yeah, it’s obviously that’s the prestige position in this sort of inverted morality we’re subjected to. So yeah, like they’ll be quite happy to sort of say:

“Oh yeah, I’m Left-wing!”

It’s only the same as what? Even Sargon has done this before, I’m sure. And it’s only the same as what these idiots, these Rikki Doolan types would say:

“Oh! I’m a liberal!”

You know, they’re so keen, again they’re hostages of a sort of a hostile, they don’t know, yeah they’re hostages essentially. And they’re sort of trying to show fealty to people who are basically abusers!

Horus: And the Left is gradually becoming the “uncool” thing to be, because nobody can ignore the fact that BLM, however much it claims to be a rebellion against institutions, you know, the establishment, institutional racism, it had the backing of almost every major corporation in the whole world! And most governments!

So it’s not cool to be on the same side as Nike, and Amazon, and stuff! It’s never it’s never cool to be on the same side as corporate bosses. So they are losing the cachet, of, I don’t know, just they’re not the thing to be anymore. And we’re trying to upset that and overthrow that. It’s becoming more vogue-ish to be on the Right.

Ayatollah: They’re not Che Guevara anymore, they’re the Che Guevara T-shirt. But yeah, I’m gonna say, actually, yeah credit to John Smithy actually. I forgot to mention it. It was rude of me. But I was scanning the chat and I saw John Smith. He mentioned the YouTube comments, and it reminded me of a particular listener of ours I talked to. He was describing his trajectory into nationalism. And he was like saying:

“Well I watched this. And I watched that. And I was watching, I don’t know, Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro, and I saw people talking about things to the Right of that in the comments. And that really brought me along.”

It does work! It really does work! So everybody can contribute to that. It’s just a matter of knowing how to do it without wasting your time. And again the more we can organize it and the greater volume we can get the more effective it will be.

Horus: And there’s no shame in blocking people! Anyone who’s just wasting your time, or wants to get you suspended, or whatever, just block them! It’s fine. You’re not doing anything wrong.

Laura: Yeah, so just to clarify, this does work. I run the PA Twitter account and there’s like a pattern. I’ll see one of our guys sort of like saying:

“Have you thought about this?”

And send in the plan from the PA website. And then someone will go:

“I’ll check it out.”

And then all of a sudden the follower does. And it’s like those three stages that people seem to go through. So yeah, if you’re on Twitter and you’re messing about, if you’ve got a spare 30 minutes, try that tactic to bring some people over to our side.

And just to remind everybody who’s on this panel tonight, the links for their social media accounts are in the description below this video. So if you want to check out Horus’s Twitter account, he has lots of hashtag operationbrokenfence tweets on his Twitter.

So I’m just gonna read through the final Superchats if that’s okay. One moment, it’s just refreshing. Which was the last one I read out? There’s so many Superchats! I can’t believe people have done this!

Okay so Sam Gray superchatted five pounds and there’s no message. But thank you very much for that.

Rodney Falberg superchatted five US dollars and it says:

“Civic nationalism is not flawed. The Persian and Roman empire lasted for centuries and defined history. Ethno-nationalism is violent, evil, and unsustainable.”

Well ethno-nationalism is the norm in pretty much every country, and always has been, apart from European countries. Japan, for example, is an ethno-nationalist country. It’s 98.5 percent ethnically Japanese. It’s just the natural state of things, you know, we’ve never had multiculturalism.

Ayatollah: Somebody paid to say that, did they?

Laura: Yeah! I mean, pretty much every country apart from White country, with a few exceptions, is an ethno-nationalist country, because they have a homeland for their people. So it’s not violent, it’s not evil, it’s natural. Do you guys have any thoughts on that?

Ayatollah: Yeah, if I could just sort of say quickly — and I was saying this to somebody fairly recently, and I’ve said it time and again, and I’ve never really had good answers to it. The question to ask people is always like, well okay, so you’ve got homogeneous society, and in the case of the vast majority of White countries, they’re pretty, in terms of like standards of living, and human development, and all these other things, they’re pretty advanced. And they’re nice places. They’re fairly high trust I mean, some, you know, some countries more than others, within our race. But you get the point. You just gotta ask them like:

“Okay so give me some examples of things that group A, or group B, outside of our race that have come into our countries against our will. Reel off for me, if you can, some of the things they can do that we can’t, that we actually need that we can’t do for ourselves?”

Because there’s never anything! Like if people want to say like:

“Oh well, you know what about, …”

You know, they usually they resort to the most frivolous sort of ridiculous things. It’s the food, isn’t it? It’s the wonderful range of restaurants and all that! It’s like, well look, if you want it that bad, buy a bloody cookbook first of all!

And secondly, like I’ve been to towns in this country, small towns where they’ve got Thai restaurants. They’ve got a population of about 7,000 people. If you want it that badly you can find it, if it matters that much to you.

But then you’ve got to set that against the other consequences of shattering a society’s homogeneity, and bringing in groups who quite often are frankly hostile, and absolutely detrimental to things like trust, and law, and order, and the general character of a place. But also it’s a matter of like, okay, if food’s that important to you, do you know, the Japanese population of Britain is? It’s about 50,000, and most of them are students. It’s not that hard to find sushi here if that’s what you want. Right?

So again as you said, Laura, ethnic homogeneity is the norm. And where it’s not the norm what you can see is, there tends to be a lot of strife in those places, because it’s just another thing to disagree about, and to come into conflict over. So yeah, what did we need it for?

We had the industrial revolution, so I think we’ve got enough work ethic and, you know, enough ingenuity in this country specifically. And you could apply the same to any other White country. We do all right, okay? It’s as simple as that! These people will never have an answer. If you simply ask them, right:

“Give me examples of some of the things that these people do that we can’t do ourselves, that we absolutely need?”

Because do we need *balti? You know, there you go! There’s never an answer to it.

Horus: We know the recipes anyway. As history Bro just said in the chat.

[* A balti or bāltī gosht is a type of lamb meat or goat meat curry served in a thin, pressed-steel wok called a “balti bowl”. It is served in restaurants throughout the United Kingdom. The name may have come from the metal dish in which the curry is cooked, rather than from any specific ingredient or cooking technique. Wikipedia]

Ayatollah: Look, we can use a grill, all right? We can cook with spices, it’s fine!

Laura: Yeah and also we need to point out that we were actually a nationalist country ourself, up until 1948.

Ayatollah: Yeah, what happened there? Yeah, and then some people are a bit further along you can get into the specifics of how that changed.

Laura: Yes. But thank you for the superchat and the comment as well. So there’s one from Stella J Atkins for nine US dollars and 99 cents. It says:

“Cheers from the dying American empire. Love you all. May the future be bright for us all!”

Thank you so much and best wishes to you guys in America, as well. And there’s one from Kate for 500, … I think that’s Norway, NOK? And it says:

“Happy birthday Laura! Support to PA, from Norway.”

Yes! I got it right! Well, thank you very much for that. And then there’s Mort Goldberg ADL Hate Speech superchatted two pounds and just wrote:

“Shalom!”

Thank you very much.

Horus: From Mort Goldberg? I used to know him. What a great guy! Hello Mort. How are you doing?

Laura: Yeah, I can’t say the full name. I think it says Mort Goldberg.

Horus: No, I’m joking [chuckling] sorry.

Ayatollah: From Mark Goldberg? Is that like a sort of a like a Levantine form of Morgoth, or something? [chuckling]

Laura: Thank you for the superchat. And then there’s Viking Dude for four pounds 99 pence, and no message. But thank you for the superchat. Tristan von Brickenstein for five Australian dollars. And it says:

“Some shekels from the future king of Neo Prussia.”

Thank you very much.

Pep superchatted two pounds and said:

“Bayern Munich for the win! Deutschland uber alles!”

Thank you very much. Dale jones superchatted two UK pounds. No message. But thank you very much. Thieleks superchatted 25 CHF, I think we said that was Swiss, didn’t we? And it says:

“Happy birthday Laura! You are a diamond! Have some more Swiss francs for your efforts.”

Thank you very much.

And then there’s S Grim for 100 Norway currency. I’m not sure what you call it.:

“Cheers Laura! PA’s policy is directly applicable to Norway. Good work!”

Thank you very much.

Mort Goldberg again [chuckling] and it says:

“Oh god! I thought this was an ADL fundraiser!”

Thank you very much for the superchat!

Horus: I’m a big fan of Mort Goldberg! What a great guy [chuckling]

Laura: And then there’s Infinite Thoughts for 1 pound 99. And it’s just a little sticker of a yellow person blowing a kiss. [chuckling] thank you very much!

Bob Carlin, five pounds:

“Hello! Bob Carlin here, for the birthday bird!”

Thank you very much!

And considering, how do you say that? Velvets, 20 pounds. It says:

“Happy birthday Laura!”

And a smiley face. Thank you very much.

Frank Slater for five pounds:

“We should work on cultural, social clubs which are non-political, but implicitly White, and traditionalist, a party without foundations is vulnerable.”

Well this is pretty much exactly what we do at Patriotic Alternative. We have regional groups [90:01] across the country. We have groups in Yorkshire, the East Mid to West Mids, London, the Southeast. And Mark and I might have another one to announce pretty soon.

But we have all these cultural and social clubs where we do things like hiking, paint-balling, all sorts of stuff. And we find that the conversation isn’t usually about politics. It’s just community building. So thank you for the superchat.

And then there’s Ale Robot Two for 139 Canadian dollars and 99 cents. I think that’s Canadian dollars? Wow! Thank you very much! And it says:

“Trust the plan! Happy birthday Laura!”

Thank you so much, that’s so sweet!

And then there’s DW for five pounds:

“Have a great birthday! Is there such a thing as keto birthday cake?”

I’m not sure. And I haven’t actually had any birthday cake, this birthday. I’m trying to be healthy. But thank you for the superchat.

And then there’s one from James L for five pounds. And it says:

“Please correct those in the chat misrepresenting PA’s repatriation policy. My Filipino wife would not be forcibly removed. Explain in full yeah.”

Yeah. So PA’s repatriation policy is voluntary. So for people who aren’t ethnically British, if they want to take voluntary repatriation, they can. But nobody’s going to be forcibly removed. So nobody needs to have any concern there. Apart from people who are in the country illegally, and apart from foreign citizens who commit crime. But yeah, we don’t believe in forcibly removing good people.

So I think that’s it. And it’s half past eight now. I’m just, oh there’s some more, some more came in while I was doing that. I’ll just finish them, sorry.

So there’s Bill Bays for 20 US dollars and it says:

“Greetings from Seattle. Laura did absolutely wonderful in the debate!”

Thank you very much.

And there’s one from Sick for two pounds. And it says:

“Multi-ethnic society is an exoticism fetish!”

I think people do fetishize multiculturalism, to be honest. Thank you for the superchat.

And then there’s also The Thin Red Line, for 10 US dollars. And it says:

“Birthday girl!”

Thank you very much.

And then there’s one from Count Dooblover, for five US dollars. And it just says:

“Testing.”

So that worked! And thank you very much for the superchat.

Well I’m so touched from all the Superchats that everybody’s giving me for my birthday. Thank you! I never expect any. But I always get them. But thank you!

And so you guys ready to finish now is there anything that anybody wants to add about any other thing? Anything you’ve got coming up that you want to plug?

Horus: I’d just like to give a thanks to all the moderators. I’ve got some of the same ones as you Laura. And this Beer Hall Pooch, Jewel Citizen, St Harrison, and also on my channel you got Lynx, In the Shadows, and Adam. They’re not just really helpful, they’re also like essential at the moment because, you know, we’ve had some saboteurs and stuff.

So I really appreciate their efforts. And they just make it more fun as well. So yeah.

And I’m probably gonna start doing a weekly show. I’m not quite sure it might be this week, or next week, or something. I’m gonna start using DLive more, as well. So if anyone wants to follow me on DLive, I’m on there.

But thanks very much from me Laura. It’s really good to talk to you on your birthday. I’m looking forward to seeing all you guys in real life soon, as well.

Laura: Thanks for coming on. And Horus’s social media links are in the description below the video, so do check them out and go show him some support. And Ayatollah, I hear you’re maybe starting your own show. Do you want to plug that? Your YouTube channel is linked in the description below this, so people can go in support you before you’ve even begun. But you’re going to be doing that on YouTube, BitChute, or DLive?

Ayatollah: Yeah it’ll be YouTube. I’ll try and think out with DLive, if I can sort of figure out all the technical stuff. So if anybody wants to offer me any sort of instruction on that, you can message me on Telegram, at Ayatollah underscore TASOB.

I do intend to start streaming on a Friday. Probably like, light-hearted, largely off-topic sort of stuff. I mean, I forget whether it was yourself Mark, or whether it was you Laura, saying that a lot of the conversation, you know, like PA events ends up not being political. And you sort of want those conversations at first, because you’re sort of starved of being able to talk about that sort of thing with people. And it’s like you can’t really be yourself in any other place among nationalists.

But you get to a certain point there, where it’s nice to actually just talk about normal and apolitical things with people who you understand of basically, they’re fundamentally sound in the things they believe, in like wanting their own people to sort of survive and act in their own interests.

But yeah, so Friday the 4th of September I intend to do my first stream on a Friday night. I’ve got to figure out the time at the moment, because I know Horus mentioned Adam’s Britain, Out show on a Friday night. I don’t want to clash with that if I can avoid it. I don’t want to sort of clashing with each other. I want us to sort of compliment each other. But I’ll figure something out for that.

I’ve got some format ideas I’ll have a bit of a think about it this coming weekend and I’ll get something together.

But yeah, thanks for having me on. Delighted to be asked as ever. And yeah, obviously Absolute State of Britain we’re at the right stuff.biz. That’s also in the description. So is my Twitter, and I’ll sort of shut up with the shameless self promotion there! [chuckling]

Laura: Well thanks for coming on. It’s always lovely to talk to you. And Mark I think everybody knows who you are and where to find you. But your links are in the description below, as well. And I think me and you are going to do a stream soon, is that right?

[95:00]

Mark: I think we will be doing a stream soon, yes. So yeah, that’s something to look forward to. And obviously people know that we’ve got some upcoming activism in a few weeks time! So there’s plenty of things to look forward to. I hope you had a lovely birthday. And thank you for inviting me on the stream.

Mark: Well thanks for being here and giving up your Sunday evening. And yeah anybody who’s listening who doesn’t know this, Mark and I work together at Patriotic Alternative. So if you check out our website you can register on there and you’ll get emails about all of our events.

And just before we close I’m just going to answer a couple of quick Superchats really fast. So there’s Darren McKinney for two pounds. And it says:

“Just home from the synagogue. What did I miss?”

Thank you for the superchat. You missed quite a lot, because we’re finished now. But you can go back and watch it [chuckling]. And then this that that Foley for two pounds:

“Happy birthday!”

Thank you very much.

And Jeff Stewart for 20 pounds. No message. But thank you very much!

So I think we’ll call it a day now. But I just want to say thank you to everybody for being here. I hope you enjoyed the rest of your Sunday evening. Thank you to the people who moderated the chat. I think it was Jewel Citizen, Postman, Patriot and Saint Harrison, who did that. Thank you all for being there.

Thank you to the Ayatollah, and Horus, and Mark, for giving up their Sunday night and coming on my birthday stream.

But yeah, we’re going to call it a night now. So yeah, just subscribe to everybody on the links below the video. And we’ve got lots more content coming up, so stay safe, and I’ll see you all again, soon. Bye.

[96:28]

[END]

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Horus Live – European Freedom – A Tribute to Simon Harris – May 26, 2020 — Transcript

admin — Sat, 30 May 2020 09:36:50 +0000

[Horus — who was the co-host with Simon Harris on the European Freedom YouTube channel — Shazia Hobbs, and Nick Cotton (Unwashed) host a tribute to Simon who suddenly passed away, aged just 60, on Thu, May 21 (I believe) from the coronavirus.* Nineteen guests appear on the stream to give their condolences and share their memories of Simon.

— KATANA]

* UPDATE Oct 10, 2020 —: Mark Collett said* in the PWR stream [30:05 — https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZAt4ai25Gvhr/] with Ayatollah (Oct 7, 2020) that he’s been told by a source close to Simon that Simon in fact died from a heart attack, and not Covid-19.

“Just to correct that. I actually spoke to someone who is close to Simon. Simon actually died of a heart attack.”

>(NOTE: This transcript has only been partially fully proofed (120 mins). Please volunteer some time and help complete the transcript. Instructions are given below. Doing even just a couple of minutes is helpful — thanks!)<<<

Contributors, so far:

Horus

Saint Harrison

Jack Hwite

Dan (The Iconclast)

Hireath

Jared George

Laura Towler

_____________

Horus Live

European Freedom

A Tribute to

Simon Harris

May 26, 2020

Click here for the video:

~~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVllmz3ADvY~~

[The above YouTube link is no longer available (as of Jul, 2020). Please use the link below from Horus’ BitChute channel.]

https://www.bitchute.com/video/3SbjgN89LNNa/

Published on May 26, 2020

Horus Live
986 subscribers

Shazia Hobbs, Unwashed and I host a tribute to Simon Harris with many guests.

For any donations to help Simon’s family, please see here. Exchange rate – approx 84 KR to 10 GBP – https://www.gofundme.com/f/a-wreath-f…

Simon’s site – https://www.europeanfreedom.com/

YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/spainfoo…

BitChute – https://www.bitchute.com/channel/simo…

Shazia – https://dreamingofsunshinesite.wordpr… / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/zMwi… / https://t.me/ShaziaH / https://gab.com/Shazia

Unwashed – https://www.vilemedia.co.uk/ / https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQXb… / https://dlive.tv/UNWAShED / https://twitter.com/ed_unwa

Horus – https://www.bitchute.com/channel/mOmf… / https://twitter.com/nastymutant / https://t.me/WarmasterHorus

White Art Collective – https://www.whiteartcollective.com/ / https://twitter.com/WhiteCollective / https://t.me/wacannounce

Laura Towler – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRWR… / https://twitter.com/thisislaurat / https://t.me/lauratowler

Jared George (The Great Order) – https://thegreatorder.com / https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQec… / https://twitter.com/TheGreatOrderIs / https://t.me/thegreatorder

Secret Sources – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh6v… / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/4eYj… / https://twitter.com/dionne4210 / https://t.me/secretsources

Gearóid Murphy – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRdu… / https://twitter.com/gearoidmurphy_ / https://t.me/gearmurphy

Keith Woods – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGe8… / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/m3ln… / https://twitter.com/KeithWoodsYT / https://t.me/keith_woods

Alison Chabloz – https://alisonchabloz.com/ / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/TMPI…

Mark Collett – http://www.thefallofwesternman.com/ / https://www.youtube.com/user/mark318i / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/mark… / https://twitter.com/MarkACollett / https://t.me/markacollett

Saint Harrison – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_9b… / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/uvBY… / https://t.me/saintharrison

Ralph Masilamani – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5ae… / https://twitter.com/reaction_right

The Iconoclast – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClJ8… / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/1Oh7… / https://t.me/theiconoclast

Ayatollah (representing TASOB) – https://www.spreaker.com/show/the-abs… / https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhg… / https://twitter.com/GhostofTollah

Morgoth – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzIe… / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/33WK… / https://twitter.com/LivesMorgoth

Jack Hwite – https://soundcloud.com/jackhwite / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/6NgV… / https://twitter.com/JackHwite

YouKipper – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1wm… / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/d2RD… / https://twitter.com/YouKipperLad

Chris (Patriotic Talk) – https://dlive.tv/PatrioticTalk / https://www.bitchute.com/channel/9lNl… / https://twitter.com/PatrioticTalk14

Jacktion – https://twitter.com/JacktionYT / https://www.youtube.com/user/titan2019

Jason Köhne (No White Guilt) – https://nowhiteguilt.org/ / https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkY8… / https://www.spreaker.com/user/nowhite… / https://theafterparty.tv/ / https://www.instagram.com/nowhiteguil…

Hiraeth – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLjM… / https://soundcloud.com/hiraeth-music-… / https://twitter.com/HiraethMusic9 / https://hiraeth9.bandcamp.com/

____________

Shazia, Nick Cotton (Unwashed) & Horus [00:16]

Jeff Winston (White Art Collective) [09:18] [transcript now OK]

Laura Towler [20:36] — [transcript now OK]

Jared George (The Great Order) [30:32] — [transcript now OK]

Dionne Moller (Secret Sources) [40:53] [transcript now OK]

Gearóid Murphy [51:33] [transcript now OK]

Keith Woods [62:22] [transcript now OK]

Alison Chabloz [70:22] [transcript now OK]

Mark Collett [81:06] [transcript now OK]

Saint Harrison [91:50] — [transcript now OK]

Ralph Masilamani (Right Reaction) [99:28] [transcript now OK]

Dan (The Iconoclast) [110:33] — [transcript now OK]

Ayatollah (representing TASOB) [120:48] – [transcript now OK]

Morgoth [131;46] – [Transcript now OK]

Jack Hwite [141:14] — [transcript now OK]

YouKipper [153:54]

Chris (Patriotic Talk) [161:18]

Jacktion [170:48]

Jason Köhne (No White Guilt) [182:23]

Hiraeth [196:10] — [transcript now OK]

TRANSCRIPT

(210:36 mins)

[00:15]

Shazia, Nick Cotton (Unwashed) & Horus

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Horus: We should now be live. I hope everyone can hear us. And right. So I’m Horus and I’m here with Unwashed [Nick Cotton] and Shazia Hobbs. And this is the tribute stream for our dear friend Simon Harris. And I’m sure everyone knows by now that he passed on last week. Which is terribly sad and a horrible shock as well. It came out of nowhere. And I miss him terribly already.

And the first question that he and I always used to discuss on our show, European Freedom — which Nick was a co-host on for some time — was:

“What did we have for dinner?”

I had fish and chips for dinner tonight. Shazia, what did you have for dinner?

Shazia: I had a salad. I haven’t got much of an appetite at the moment.

Horus: And Nick?

Nick: Likewise. Not very hungry, so I had cheese on toast. Yeah, not much of an appetite for some reason. Keep to tradition, yeah! [Chuckling] Did you enjoy your dinner?

Horus: It was lovely. I hope nobody finds this a trite beginning, but this was a tradition with me and Simon. And yeah, like a lot of things I’m going to try and keep a lot of things going. Like the thing that Simon mentioned as soon as we started doing our Harris and Horus show was that we were both bookish types. And I really appreciated that he noticed that, because I love reading books! And he was a man who not only read a lot, but he also produced books. And one very lovely thing that he did, was he sent me a copy of his version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, for Christmas, which I have not read yet. But I’m looking forward to.

And one thing that I’m gonna miss about him a great deal is discussing books and learning in general. And I was watching, one of our guests tonight is gonna be Jared George. And No White Guilt. And I watching the stream that Simon did with them. I think it’s called “Red Pill Machine — Simon Harris”. And every time I hear the man’s voice I think of him very fondly.

Shazia, I know you’ve been very upset in the last few days. Is there anything you just want to say about Simon before we start introducing guests?

Shazia: That is something I was going [words unclear] I just know I’ll end up bubbling [words unclear] I know I’m going to miss him. Now I just want to say a big thank you to the entire community, you know, everybody’s devastated [words unclear] Simon passing and I just wanted to [words unclear].

Horus: I think anyone who wants to learn a bit more about Shazia, and Simon’s relationship as well, you could watch a video from about middle of last year where, I can’t remember the name, but the thumbnail is a picture of Shazia with tape over her mouth. And it was about the sort of divergence, and then convergence, of their routes through Counter Jihad, and then on to fuller ethnic nationalism. And sort of the similarities of what they went through and where they arrived.

And I would also just agree that people have put out lovely things. I’ve not put out my own tribute, or anything, to Simon. I hope this stream partly functions as that.

But I think people have responded with great taste and affection, especially I think Ayatollah put out an absolutely brilliant tribute to Simon almost as soon as he heard the news. It’s just a testament to his ability with words and obviously the respect and the affection he had for Simon. Lovely to see.

I mean, Keith Woods put out a great video. So did Jared George. So did lots of people, Dionne. And we are all hit by tragedy, but it’s also heartwarming to see these things.

So Nick. Is there anything you want to say about the last few days, about Simon?

[05:21]

Nick: Yeah. I wonder if I’m in the same boat as you, where I found it hard to sum it up in a little status, or a short video. So I’ve just been sharing other people’s, because they’ve done a really good job of it.

I feel like I was really late to the Simon Harris train. But I got fully, fully, on-board! Still not even sure why he invited me to be a co-host on EF [European Freedom] for the first few weeks, because, like I’m not as bookish as you guys! I really felt like I had to keep up. I felt like I was sort of in the presence of giants! [chuckling]

But he was just the nicest man wasn’t he? The way he tackled every situation seemed to be measured, but he was also hilarious. We clicked on so many levels! And yeah, he was definitely my best 60 year old friend, at this point. Well, we’ll carry the torch forward won’t we? Like it was always obvious that this Tuesday show was gonna continue.

Horus: This is something I never anticipated making friends with people of the older generation, especially as so many of our generation like to disparage people as boomers. And obviously they are, the baby boomer generation. But to speak of them so disparaging, I don’t think there was anything about Simon that fitted with all that really! He was someone who absolutely did care about the state of the world, and where our society was going.

And he, well I think he welcomed you on to the show, just, because he saw, just quality in you, and energy! And it’s just a great person to talk to. So it made sense to me immediately. And we made a good trio.

But yeah, I mean, for my part, I think I’ve said this on another stream. But I said this to Simon as well. I was very happy to. Last summer I made that video called “Against Brian and Avi” in July. And that was related to Shazia and Dionne being expelled from the TR [Tommy Robinson] movement. I didn’t know if Simon having been in the similar position at that point. He seized on it immediately and just promoted it all over Twitter, and so on. And as did a few other big YouTubers. And Simon then promoted everything else that did, everything! And he was a kindred spirit. And I love that! [chuckling]

It’s just, I can’t, the reason I can’t really write a tribute at least at the moment is just, I’ve got very simple feelings towards it, that I can’t really make, I can’t really elaborate upon. I just think he was a sound fellow! And a curious, and interesting, and intelligent fellow! And that’s about all that comes to mind, you know, I just think of him as a good man. Which makes it all the more sorrowful that he just suddenly — suddenly died.

But, I think, the huge collection of people who were keen to show love and respect for him tonight, just speaks for itself really.

And everyone who’s watching the video, you can see in the description box the list of people that are coming up. And the first guest here who we have on, I believe the founder of White Art Collective, is Jeff Winston! Who is joining us now.

And Jeff you were, along with Nick, the guest on the last show of European Freedom. The last person who Simon invited on on. And welcome to this tribute stream. I hope you doing alright.

Jeff Winston (White Art Collective)

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Jeff Winston: Yeah thank you guys very much for having me. Can you hear me alright?

Horus: Yeah you’re great.

Jeff Winston: Yeah, cool. Yeah I’m honored that you asked to have me on. That last stream that we did last Tuesday, I would never imagined that we would be doing this, this week. But yeah, I didn’t know Simon, as well as a lot of people did. But I immediately was struck by just his good nature.

And I think I started talking with him about a month ago. And we were talking about music and he was saying that, everything before [after?] 1995 was rubbish! [chuckling] And I think that’s, I was like, yeah no lie detected, I think that’s a pretty true statement. And we were kind of discussing, you know, why that was, particularly. But then he revealed to me that he was a musician and shared that really cool picture of him from his younger days. Kind of looking like a punk rocker with the stiff upper lip kind of thing, going on.

And yeah I’m just, I feel lucky that I was able to get on, because we were kind of, we’re like, hey let’s collaborate, we want to bring the cultural and the political wings together. And we were both very much about that. And so I feel lucky that I was able to come on last week, just before he passed. And we were able to, … I think that was a very productive conversation.

And I had a number of people tell me that was the best appearance I’ve ever had on anything. And I think it had a lot to do with the host, you guys, of course. But also Simon, the way the conversation was framed. He was a true gentleman as everyone has been saying. And just a curious soul. And he had a way of cutting through the BS, kind of a straight shooter which is something I very much appreciate, and I think the world needs more of that.

[11:14]

Horus: Absolutely was a straight-shooter! About the way that he would make conversations is interesting. Because every week he sent out show notes and you can tell that he thought about what was gonna make this interesting. So:

“I’m not just putting on a stream, just to have a stream. Let’s get something out of this!”

And that was one great thing about it. And there’s was always particular things he wanted to discuss. If anything we wouldn’t always finish everything, because it’s like:

“Well, I want to cover this as well.”

About that photo of him onstage, I assumed that was from before 1995 wasn’t it? [chuckling] It must have been right?

Jeff Winston: Yeah, I think that was from, I think that was probably back from the 80s. It had an 80s look to it. But yeah, it was really cool, he’s looking like a rock star there! And I think he’s gonna be remembered like a rock star!

Horus: Yeah. And I would say there was a detectable “punkish” edge to his attitude, wasn’t there? Would you guys agree with that, Nick, Shazia?

Nick: I mean, totally! Look what’s happening right now. I always like drawing these parallels about how we’re a subculture. And we’ve lost one of our own that’s really important to us. And just look at the tribute lineup that we’ve got! Okay, technically, it’s not a gig, but seriously look at that list of names. It functions in exactly the same way.

And yes! He was a punk, or even though, I mean, Jeff it might be fun to talk about his sort of ideas, that he drove forth on Tuesday. How we need to reject the teenager, and how Punk is dead! It was some really interesting stuff that we ended up talking about last week.

Jeff Winston: Yeah, and don’t say “counterculture”, all, right? He’s specifically said, …

Nick: Yes! Of course!

Jeff Winston: [chuckling] Yeah! But what also is cool, … So I hadn’t, I wonder if anybody has any of the footage, or audio of any of that band from earlier? I don’t know if anybody has any of that, but I’d love to hear some of it. I did, someone did send me the links, so I know he’d played in more recently. He had a couple songs. He did a cover tune by Ace, I can’t remember the name of that song off the top of my head, but that’s a really cool tune. Very nice cover by Simon.

And then he had an original tune called “Love is a River”. And I’ve listened to that a few times. And he said he wrote that one back in 89. But it was cool. It kind of had a little bit of a, … What he had told me in our conversation about a month ago was like, he kind of ended up getting into like jazz, you know, kind of blue-eyed soul kind of stuff.

But he also liked reggae, obviously, definitely, some punk in there as well. And funny how those things kind of do make an interesting mix. But that song that he did, it kind of had a little bit, almost also a little bit of like maybe flamenco-ish kind of thing going on. But yeah, really nice tune. And I love the message that he was sending there. I think it’s, you know, he was just all about positivity and romanticism. He’s basically in the intro to that song he was saying, you know, sometimes you got a stop and just appreciate things, and do the romantic love thing. And I think he’s left a great message for everybody to try to emulate.

Horus: For me, I’ve had a lot of people come to me the last few days, saying:

“I know how close you were to him.”

But, I must admit some ignorance. I don’t know that much about his musical side. I mean, he was a great friend, you know, I wish I’d met him in real life! But I pretty much always engaged with him just about historical matters, and matters of power, and stuff like that. The sort thing that I go to, it probably shows how self-centered I am! [chuckling]

Just yesterday I saw someone had shared a clip of him singing on the acoustic guitar, like what you mentioned Jeff. And I’ve never heard that before. And there’s loads of other videos, and loads of things that he did that I’ve not seen. So I’m, you know, I’m hoping his YouTube channel will stay up for a while. Because there’s loads of things that I’ll discover as I go back and watch and go through his stuff. And yeah, …

Jeff Winston: I saved that song just in case anybody, just in case something did happen to his channel, I just downloaded it just in case, just for preservation, because I don’t know how those things go.

Horus: Yeah. I mean, you know, I’ve downloaded all the episodes of European Freedom that we did. But he’s got years of videos going back. And yeah, I mean, I hardly know anything about his creative side, so I’ll enjoy going through that, with some sadness, I suppose.

Nick: I’ll plug the mix-tape that he left for us. I asked him to do us a mix-tape last week, and he got me the playlist in time. And so we have, I think it’s 15 of his favorite songs? So I’ve posted the link in there. And it’s really good stuff! It’s really good!

Horus: Name a few of the bands that were on that?

Nick: It’s all post-punk. It’s Gang of Four, Public Image Limited, Susie and the Banshees. What else is on there? Magazine, Wire. Do, you know, any of these? I really like this stuff, yeah.

Horus: Was he a fan of The Jam?

Nick: All that kind of stuff, yeah! Post-punk, and yeah, because I leapt out my skin when I did my first interview with him, and he said he was 18 in 1977! And I was like:

“Oh! That was an important year! Tell me more!”

Horus: Was he at that gig in Manchester? [chuckling]

Nick: Not that one. But he said that it was tiny. And everyone assumes that it was massive, but it wasn’t. It was just a few people. But he was there!

Horus: Way of the World asked in the chat:

“Have we got the picture that was mentioned before?”

My answer to Way of the World is I’m absolutely basic. I’ve got it on my screen on Twitter. I don’t know much about sharing things. Let me try and share my screen. Is that showing? I’m sorry about this everyone, it’s very unprofessional. Can you see that? Can anyone see that?

Nick: Afraid not, my man! If you send me the link I can try and share screen in the private chat.

Horus: Will do. I’m bloody hopeless with all of this! It’s just a picture on Twitter. Okay I’ll send you it.

Shazia: [words unclear] onto BitChute.

Horus: Oh terrific! Okay well done BBJ. Yeah that will help publicize that.

Nick: You should be able to add it into the conversation. Now look at that! That’s great, isn’t it! [chuckling]

Horus: It’s kind of a snarl, but he doesn’t look like a asshole, you know! It’s brilliant.

Nick: He’s only an asshole when he needed to be!

Horus: [chuckling] I’m sure he, … I bet if anyone took against his family he would be a tiger!

Sorry Shazia. Did I talk over you there?

Shazia: [words unclear] Just jsaying he was an arsehole to people that deserved it.

Horus: I bet!

What I’m gonna do, as we’ve got loads of guests coming on and they will sort of overlap. So Jeff, you can stay on as long as you want. But obviously once we get to six we’re full, and you will have to make way for the next person. So just drop out when it suits you really.

Jeff Winston: Okay, yeah actually I’m probably gonna drop, because I’m in the middle my workday over here.

Horus: Of course!

Jeff Winston: On this side of the pond. But guys, it’s an honour you having me on here. I think Simon was a great man. I’m a lot more affected by it than I would ever think I would be. It sucks when we lose one of the good ones. And I think a lot of people feel it. So, …

[20:02]

Horus: It really does. An extra big thanks for coming on while you’re at work. And I hope to speak to you again soon. And whatever we can work on together, I look forward to that, mate.

Jeff Winston: Absolutely! And condolences to his family and his friends, and just the broader community. Guys, everyone have a good one.

Horus: Cheers Jeff. Thanks a lot!

Nick: Jeff.

Horus: I’m now going to welcome on, … I was going to welcome on Laura. Oh, here we go! [chuckling] I couldn’t see you there Laura.

Hello, welcome to the stream!

Laura Towler

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Laura Towler: Hello! How’s it going?

Horus: I’m doing all right. I’m a bit croaky. How are you doing?

Laura Towler: Yeah I’m okay. It’s been a crazy week, or so, hasn’t it? I think everyone’s really kind of being hit by it a lot harder than they thought that they would be.

So yeah, I’m okay. I mean, I’m glad that we have the community and that we can support each everyone and we can be there for each other, sorry. But yeah, it’s obviously not the nicest stream to do, is it?

Horus: It’s not. And I’m not the best host for it either. But with the help of great guests like you and with co-hosts, Nick and Shazia, we will make it through! [chuckling] I can’t promise anything great. I’m so much more nervous being the host, than a guest. I’m sure everyone can tell. But, yeah, [chuckling] thank you for coming on.

Laura Towler: You are doing fine! Don’t worry about it. It is difficult hosting, isn’t it? You think… When I’ve done a couple on my channel I’ve always been like:

“Oh you’ve got to watch everything. And you’ve got all the interface around the back and stuff.”

But yeah, you’re doing great, so don’t worry.

Horus: Well, good, good, good! So, I haven’t prepared questions for everyone. So I’m sure that shows as well. But I just, … If you’ve got any thoughts about Simon that you want to share? Please do.

Laura Towler: Yeah, so obviously Simon spoke at our conference, the Patriotic Alternative Conference in March. And he couldn’t actually make it to the event, because of the lockdown in Spain. Which was a shame. I mean, it’s gutting really, because that was maybe the last chance that we had to meet him and it was cancelled, because of the coronavirus lockdown.

So obviously he spoke and his speech was very well-received, people seem to really love that. But it’s just that… What if? You know… I wish we had the opportunity to meet him that day. And I know he was very excited about speaking. And I think he was, Mark might mention this later one actually, but I think he was planning on coming to the next conference as well, which would take place in autumn of this year.

Simon Harris – My Speech to the Patriotic Alternative Conference – Mar 16, 2020 — Transcript

And then another thing as well, is that he actually invited me on your show — the show that you guys do with him — and I had no internet at the time, because I’d just moved house. And he was like:

“Ah, no worries! We’ll rearrange it for another week.”

And then obviously we didn’t get to rearrange that. So I never got to stream with him either, which is a shame.

But yeah, I just, Simon reminds me of my dad. Just his mannerisms, he’s very thoughtful, I think. And very kind of well-spoken.

And he’s somebody, … If I could say one trait about him, it would be he is somebody who “chased the truth”, and it’s difficult for people I think to change their mind about things in private, but for him to do that so publicly, and to move over… Did he start off in the Left? And then it was the Counter Jihad movement, wasn’t it? And then he moved over to real nationalism. To do that publicly, I think that requires balls! And he was very brave person for doing that.

So those are my thoughts.

Horus: It’s absolutely true. Shazia, did you want to add something?

Shazia: Yeah just to agree with Laura, it takes balls to do that, to do that so publicly. To be a Lefty, he was a Lefty, and then to come to the Counter-Jihad movement. And then, you know, so publicly he spoke about it lots of times, that he became “deranged” when he went down that rabbit hole!

Horus: He did. He made a point of admitting that several times that he got “JQ Derangement Syndrome”! [chuckling]

Nick: Not the only one! And it was nice to have him there, to guide us through. [chuckling]

Shazia: His derangement with the JQ stopped me becoming so deranged, that time! He sort of paved the path. And on that journey I was obviously behind him. [words unclear] … not being so deranged, possibly? If that makes sense.

[25:00]

Horus: And obviously that “derangement”, as he refers to it, also produced some really good books, which people are still gonna be reading for a long time, as well. From his publishing activities.

One thing that’s, … Sorry this is not really relevant to you Laura, specifically I mean. There was a book that he wanted to publish but could never agree, make an agreement with the author. It was about the Stephen Lawrence affair. And I’ve read it. Presumably… I don’t know if it’s in the finished form that I read it, but it was an absolutely earth-shattering book! As far as I’m concerned. I really hope it gets published. So, there’s nothing I can do about it. I’ve got no contact with the author.

But, he was, yes, Simon wanted to publish his book and it could have changed the whole country. I mean, when it does come out, I presume it will in some form, it’ll be a very important book!

And so yeah, I mean, that absolutely proves, it’s one of many things, that proves what a truth seeker he was.

And yeah, he wanted people to know why we’re in the state were in. And yeah, I mean, everyone seems to have acknowledged, everyone seems to recognised that about him.

He wanted to figure out the world. And yeah, I love that about him.

Laura Towler: The last conversation that I had with him was on Wednesday, and he passed away on Thursday [May 21, 2020] and then we all found out about it on Friday. And it was in the one of the public, well, like kinda private DM [Direct Message] group you can be invited to on Telegram.

And he told us that he felt unwell.

And I asked him what his symptoms were, because my dad has had coronavirus. He said it was the most sick that he’s ever been in his entire life.

And he told me what symptoms were and then I just said:

“Have you got somebody to look after you?”

And he was like:

“My missus will be back tomorrow, and she’ll look after me.”

That was the last time I spoke to him. And I know it’s daft saying something in hindsight. But I really wish I elaborated, and just, I don’t know, maybe said some more, something else to him. Because I just kind of said:

“You’ve got someone to look after you. That’s fine.”

But, what was I gonna say?

I think, I uploaded the video of him playing guitar to my YouTube channel. And the comments underneath, if anyone wants to go read them, they’re just so lovely. And so many people are saying:

“I never actually spoke to him, but I felt like I could relate to him, and I felt like I knew him.”

And lots of people are telling me that they’ve been crying about it, and things. And even people who didn’t know him personally. And I think that’s a testimony really to the impact that he had on the community. When you can relate to somebody like that, and it’s not just a voice, when it’s actually a person and you get to know them, it’s so sad to lose them.

Horus: And you mentioned then, I’m sort of, …

By the way, Unwashed, I’m sorry, I just kicked you [off] by accident. I was trying to do something else. Come back.

About the Conference speech. When he made that speech he couldn’t hear us all, I think. He said afterwards he wasn’t even sure that everyone could hear what he was saying. And yeah, he had no sound coming from our end. But he delivered his speech as though he could, and it was superb! And he’s just kind of a natural performer, maybe it’s just he was just a sort of calm person.

Laura Towler: Yeah! I didn’t know that he couldn’t hear us. Because obviously there were a few laughs, and a few claps, and stuff. And it’s a shame he didn’t get to hear them.

But I guess, I don’t know, he was sent the audio, I think, wasn’t he? So hopefully they will… I don’t know if they’ll be picked up on the audio, … I think a lot of us told him that he was very well-received. So I hope that he does know that. I think he did know that.

Horus: I made sure to tell him after the Conference that it was as though you were there, right. It was as though you could hear us and everything. Because he seemed to pause whenever we clapped and laughed and stuff, so he did brilliantly! He just didn’t know it at the time.

Laura Towler: Yeah.

Horus: Yeah. It was terrific.

So, I’m gonna introduce the next guest. As I said before, Laura you don’t need to leave yet. You’re free to leave whenever you want, but I’m bringing on our guest now, which is Jared. Unless there is any last thing you want to say?

Laura Towler: I will get off actually, because I have another stream at 8 o’clock. But I just wanted to say that one thing that we can take from this, is that we should take that flag, or that banner, from Simon now, and take over the burden that he was carrying and continue his journey. And he sought the truth, so it’s up to us to continue to do that. And to spread it to as many people as possible.

So, that’s what I’d like to say going forward.

But thanks very much you three for organising this. And I also thank you for inviting me to speak. It’s a big honour.

Horus: Well said. And thank you Laura as well.

Laura Towler: See you soon! Bye bye.

[30:14]

Horus: See you soon. All right. I will now bring on Jared George of The Great Order. Hello Jared!

Jared George (The Great Order)

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Jared George: Hello mate!

Horus: Sorry, I’m talking over you, please.

Jared George: No, it’s quite all right! And it’s good to speak to you and Shazia. Nice to meet you, so to speak, I wish it could be under better circumstances. And Nick, of course, speaking again. Thank you all, as Laura said, for organizing this. I think Simon would be very pleased. I think he is very pleased! Somehow seeing this outpouring of love for him, well deserved, because of who he was and what he did for everyone.

Horus: I like to think that he’s enjoying this. I’ve no idea really what comes in the afterlife, but this, it’s a very nice thought, to think that he knows how loved and admired he was.

Jared George: I think so.

Horus: And your tribute video was excellent as well. I really enjoyed that. I recommend everyone to watch that.

Nick: Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. It was really touching.

Jared George: Thank you! Yeah it seems a lot of people, we all see the same things in him. I like how you guys were saying before, how he was a “straight shooter”. And he very much was. But then you also spoke about his songwriting and his romantic side. And it’s always fascinating when someone can combine a couple of different traits, that sometimes can be at odds, and really harmonizes them. Especially someone a bit older than some of us, it’s a good, you know, it could provide a good role model.

But he definitely hit these interesting balances in a few different ways. And you guys speaking, you know, listening before I came on, it reminded me of another one, the straight shooter. And on one hand, and yet, also being a romantic, on the other hand. I spoke in the video briefly about how he had a sharp mind, but at the same time didn’t have any pretense. And again sometimes it’s hard for people to get that balance right, sometimes they’re skewed more towards one way, or the other.

But he really, when you sit back and think about it, he really did have this amazing panoply of traits, or collection of traits, that were harmonized so well. And I think that’s what gave him that gravitas, that charisma, and why we’re all rallying around him, like this right now.

Horus: Maybe just to complement that, I see a comment from a Vigilante Jesus in the chat. And says, it’s a quote from Simon saying:

“Let’s knock away at the foundations! We need to make forays into enemy territory! We need bands of braves with incredible courage! We can beat them!”

[Chuckling] I don’t know, that might be from the stream that you did with him. You and Jason did with him?

Jared George: I can’t say I recognize it offhand. We did have some great conversations with him recently on our show, the second to last one, because we did two with him pretty, almost back to back, a couple weeks apart, in early April. Because we caught up with him first, and then soon after he had the Nick Griffin interview, and we wanted to get him right back on to talk about that, that you guys had done. It was interesting.

But when we did the first one, I think was on April 4th, it was a lot about his daughter. Jason’s clip included a little bit from that show. How he publicly spoke about reconnecting with his daughter. And he was able to, not only pick up where he left off with her, and have that great bond, he was just glow when he spoke about her!

But, he also began to “awaken” her, even though she’s still in the university system. I think she’s in her mid-20s. I don’t know if she’s doing graduate work now. But he was able to bring her over in a short amount of time to a lot of our perspectives. And when we asked him, how he did it, the first thing he began to talk about was love! He loved her, he loves his people, he obviously loved life itself — and that’s what we’re celebrating here and what reverberates throughout what everyone’s saying.

And we have to remember that! He was motivated by love! And I said this in the video — he was from Nottingham, and he talked about, the first time we spoke, way back, he talked about how he was from the land of Robin Hood! And that means something to me, too. And I said in the video, and I’ll say for anyone here who might not have seen it, that he did carry that spirit of the “Merry Men”. That you hold a song in your heart, even amidst trying circumstances — you’re gonna have ups and downs on your journey, you know. Even amidst those tough times you keep a song in your heart. That is an archetype.

And that is something Simon embodied that we really all do well to remember, in this thing. Because everything that we’re involved in, you know, it’s a marathon, it’s not a sprint! And there’s going to be ups and downs. And Simon is such an amazing example for all of us to keep in our minds and hearts going forward, forever now, in all of our lives in this!

[35:28]

Horus: You say you’ve got some connection with Nottingham, as well?

Jared George: Oh, with Robin, …

Horus: In the sense of the “Merry Men”?

Jared George: Yeah, that it means something to me. Yeah, not to Nottingham, the place specifically, though.

Horus: Do you have any British ancestry, yourself, or?

Jared George: Oh I have a little bit from here and there in Europe. I’ll just say I’m very connected to Britain. Yes.

Horus: Right. Go on Shazia.

Shazia: I have a connection to Nottingham.

Horus: Go on, … Oh, yeah, you do actually.

Shazia: I was born there!

Jared George: There you go!

Shazia: I think that’s why we can [words unclear] for Simon. Also, I’m in contact with Simon’s wife, and I’ve told her about all the tributes coming in for Simon, so [words unclear] …

Jared George: Sorry. I don’t know if anything was addressed to me, I’m having a little trouble hearing Shazia’s line, …

Nick: Shaz was saying that she’s passed your tribute on to Simon’s wife. And I just wonder how it must be for his family to see this wave of tributes just continually coming through YouTube and Twitter! Hopefully it’s really heartwarming.

Jared George: Well, Shazia, I tremendously appreciate that! Thank you so much! I was going to say on the stream, if any of his family members see this stream, just to send my love and respect. But the fact that you sent that, that’s a big honor! Thank you!

Shazia: I’ll be sending this one as well. [words unclear].

Jared George: Mmm. Thank you so much.

Horus: Lynx in the Shadows has just put a link in the stream of Simon talking about his daughter and in one of the streams. I think that was one of the ones that he did with you Jared, is that right?

Jared George: Yeah, I think it was the first time he spoke about it publicly, about reconnecting with his daughter. Yeah. And amazing in hindsight now. It only happened I think October, or November, of last year.

So, another reminder that if life is nudging you to do something, do it! You know, we don’t know what we have. And I’m sure everyone in their family, and his daughter especially, is extremely grateful that they reconnected when they did. I’m sure it’s very bittersweet right now. But imagine if they hadn’t, and then this happened. So it’s a great blessing.

Horus: That’s for sure. And it means so many things over the last six months changed for all of us, like in terms of the movement. And I think one brilliant thing about the show that he and I did, was he would just identify almost always the exactly the right guest to bring on. He sort of had an idea of the zeitgeist of the moment, because there is a zeitgeist now. Whereas, I mean, I’d say two years ago I was no part of any movement, in any way. I was just a spectator! Someone who wanted a movement and didn’t have one.

And you mentioned the stream that we did with Nick Griffin. One of the most controversial ones that we did. A lot of people took strong sides on either side. And it was, I mean, it was controversial even to have him on, but it seemed important to discuss these things, to challenge ourselves in these ways.

Simon Harris – EF 19 – A Conversation with Nick Griffin – Apr 14, 2020 — Transcript

And streams we did with Dangerfield and Iconoclast, we were discussing, you know:

“What are we as a movement? What are we trying to do at this moment! Not just talking about over the long term, but what are we doing at this moment?”

And I think he just had a terrific sense of “the moment”, you know, what we need to be thinking about, what we need to be talking about. Which is why it’s extra painful to lose him, …

Jared George: Absolutely! Yeah, I’ll underscore that. He had that artist’s sense, he had his antenna out! And he was always pushing forward! That’s why he did the kind of thing you guys did with Nick [Griffin], that he wanted to air out the questions, and even go into some, you know, difficult territory. He was willing to do that.

And yet, he also had a very long sense of tradition. So again, combining these different traits, a real, a real role model! And that will live on.

[40:10]

Horus: Well said! Well said Jared!

I’m gonna introduce now, Dionne, Secret Sources.

Jared, you’re welcome to stay on until we get full, sort of thing, or drop out as it suits you.

Jared George: I’ll give Dionne her time. But again thank you for organizing this. And love and honor to Simon and his family, and everyone listening. Again, keep him in your mind as a role model. And we’ll all talk soon. But thank you so much!

Horus: Thanks very much for coming on Jared.

Jared George: Bye!

Horus: And Dionne, you’re on. And you are how are you doing?

Dionne Moller (Secret Sources)

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Dionne Moller: I’m very well, thank you. Can you hear me okay?

Horus: I can.

Nick: Yep.

Dionne Moller: Great. Thanks for inviting me. Hello Nick, Shazia and Horus. I spoke to Shazia this morning before I made that in a stream, or tribute, or whatever it is. I don’t even know what to call it — for Simon. And I’m sorry I have to gate-crashing this way but something came up at home and I had to go out and I didn’t think I was going to get back in time, but hopefully I could. So thanks for letting me gate-crash!

Horus: Well, this was your slot and you’ve come on at the perfect moment. and I hope everything is well at your end. I won’t pry over the air. But I hope everything’s right.

And yeah, I think your your tribute this morning was just moving in the most simple and lovely way. And it was something for everyone to do at the same time, even though we were in our own homes. Like it was sort of something like, something equivalent to a funeral . And it was obviously happening at the same time as Simon’s real funeral. So, I think that was very well chosen and part of, I guess, of the healing process, the moving on process, or whatever the right term is. So I think you chose well, yeah.

Dionne Moller: Yeah, it was difficult to do. Well not difficult, because I didn’t actually say anything until the end. But I knew what I was going to say at the end. And when you kind of build yourself up to it, I don’t know whether you could hear, my voice was shaking so much, because I was crying, whilst I was reciting that funeral prayer. It’s a pagan, Viking, funeral prayer. And I didn’t think I’d be able to get through it without, you know, making a right fool of myself. But I did!

But I was glad it ended, I have to say that, because it was hard! Even though really nothing happened. But I think sometimes, … You know, I’ve seen a lot the tributes that are coming out from people. People are just amazing! Fantastic! But oh, I don’t know I like a bit of quiet, and I like, maybe the time to reflect and also the fact that Shazia and I yesterday were in a bit of a panic, because we wanted to do, .. Well Shazia found out that Simon was being buried this morning, and we couldn’t get a wreath to the place of his funeral on time, because of Corona, and because of the lack of notice, they couldn’t do it.

So I was thinking to myself, after I’d spoken to Shazia:

“Well then, how can we get together?”

And I think it’s quite apt that it was over the internet, because everything we do really, 99 percent of the time, is over the internet. So I thought that was apt. So yeah. Well it turned out like it did, and it actually turned out okay, I think.

Horus: And also, … Oh sorry Shazia, you go, …

Shazia: [Words unclear]

Horus: To You’re really quite, by the way, Shazia. If you could speak closer closer to the mike, a bit.

Shazia: It was really beautiful what you did, … [Words unclear]

Horus: Also Dionne big credit for setting up the GoFundMe for people to send tributes, .. Sorry for people to send some support to Simon’s family, which is still going I think. I think Carrie will post that in the chat in a moment. Yeah, and we hope to send a wreath in the first place, didn’t we? But it will go to another use instead, to Simon’s wife and daughter, I imagine.

[45:23]

Dionne Moller: Well, I’m trying to be as transparent about this GoFundMe for Simon, as absolutely as possible, because when money is involved, you know, I like to have everything clean and clean cut.

So yes, the original idea was to be able to send a wreath to Simon’s final resting place. But it turns out that, because Shazia was so fantastic in, and you Horus also for, getting hold of the number, we managed to get hold of Simon’s wife in time. And she actually said that she was going to buy flowers from us to put on to Simon’s grave this morning. And that if she could, she would send a photograph.

So that wreath, or those flowers were actually put on his grave, hopefully, this morning. And, of course, she will be reimbursed fully for that wreath, and plus everything, all of the money that is left over in that fund. Which at the moment is in British pounds. It’s well over three thousand pounds that’s been donated so far. So people have been extraordinarily generous! It is absolutely heartwarming to see. I didn’t expect it. But my god, I don’t know, I’m kind of blown away by people’s generosity!

Horus: And about the online element of, like you said, it was an online sort of equivalent to a funeral that you did this morning. [words unclear] As far as I know, none of us, … Shazia you met him in real life, is that right?

Shazia: I didn’t.

Horus: You didn’t?

Shazia: I was supposed to meet him in 2017 and I cancelled going to that event . Then I was looking forward to meeting him next, … [words unclear] So no, I didn’t meet him and that’s what I find really strange that I have this much sad now, for a man that I never met. You know, I just knew him online, like so many other of us.

Horus: You didn’t cancel the 2017 thing, because you were scared to meet him, did you? [chuckling]

Shazia: [words unclear] I was too scared to be seen out in public! [nervous laugh]

Horus: Right. So quite a serious reason then.

Shazia: [words unclear] I was not scared of him! [laughing]

Horus: [laughing] Not a scary bloke! But imagine if he gave someone a proper tongue lashing he could be quite scary, but usually in a well-meaning kind of way. But he was generally a friendly chap, wasn’t he?

Shazia: [word unclear] would think so.

Horus: I mean, I said earlier. But I mean, that all I ever knew from him was support. I mean, it was literally from the moment I made my first interesting video, till the day he died, it was just constant support and encouragement and friendliness.

And I think I haven’t really accepted — I’m sure others feel like this as well — I haven’t really accepted that he’s gone yet. Doesn’t really seem real. But, well, we’ll do our best to get used to it, bit by bit, I suppose.

Dionne Moller: That’s the thing with sudden death, Horus. You know, my mum she was ill with cancer for very long time before she died. So I think psychologically you kind of say to yourself:

“Well at some point my mother, or whoever it is, is going to die.”

And you kind of get used to that idea. But when somebody dies suddenly, and unexpectedly, it comes with such a blow, that you find that people react in different ways.

I’ve read people’s comments, … And Laura Towler, who was just on right now, said herself, she wishes that she could have probed deeper into how Simon was feeling that night.

And this is a very natural thing to do. To kind of blame yourself for something that youcouldn’t possibly have any control over. Because it’s one of the mechanisms that we have to cope with the fact that we’ve lost somebody that we loved, and liked, and respected, unexpectedly. So if all of this is a very, very natural reaction to Simon’s death.

[50:23]

Horus: Yes, comforting to hear. Like I feel like I took him for granted and I think I will still feel like that. But to hear you say that, it helps to sort of diminish the guilty feeling at least.

I must now bring on our next guest. So thank you Dionne for everything that you’ve done, and for coming on. Is there any last thing you want to say?

Dionne Moller: I’d like to say thanks to everybody that’s donated so far to Simon’s GoFundMe. If you can afford to, and if you wish to please, donate so that we can help Simon’s wife and daughter get through this really sad and bad time. And yeah, but that’s it. Thanks very much for inviting me, and I’ll even chat. Thanks very much.

Shazia: Thanks Dionne.

Horus: Thanks Dionne!

Nick: Thanks Dionne!

Horus: Okay. So our next guest is Gearóid Murphy. Hi Gearóid. How are you doing?

Gearóid Murphy

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Gearóid Murphy: Hi Horus. And to the other guys as well. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. And I just want to say as well, one thing Horus, you mentioned a while ago being slightly nervous hosting a stream by yourself. But am I think you’ve had what ten guests on already, you’ve had lots of guests and you’re doing a pretty good job as far as I can tell. So, don’t worry about it! [chuckling]

Horus: Oh that’s good! I’m glad to hear that, because it’s more self-conscious. When the guest is on it just feels like I don’t have to think about very much! [chuckling] But I mean, I’ve got great co-hosts here as well, so.

Gearóid, did you speak to Simon often? Obviously I know you were in touch, because you came on the show that we did about Ireland.

Gearóid Murphy: I had that show with him, and yourself, and Keith, I think it was. I hope I’m not forgetting anybody! And then a few weeks later it — again I haven’t actually gone back and done a timeline. But it was in, let’s just say the recent past, the last couple of months. Beginning with the stream we did including yourself. But since that time I started streaming a lot more myself, you know. And one night, the next stream I had with him, I saw him tweet about the pandemic, that Covid 19 and the lockdown, when it was just getting started in Spain, and in Ireland as well.

And he tweeted out that he wasn’t sure, he didn’t know what to make of it. That he was both skeptical, but also, you know, respected that it could be real, or was real, or well, you know, he had a perfect kind of a logical, rational take on it. And characterized by uncertainty. He said:

“I’m not really sure what to make of it. And I have an open mind, and I’m not dogmatic about either side. You know, this complicated narrative war.”

And I thought that’s exactly the take someone should have, an intellectually rigorous person should have. I love the uncertainty of it. That’s where I am, too. So I DMed him on Twitter and said:

“Would you come on and talk to me about it?”

And he did. And what was nice about that, obviously, is that he had, I don’t know, a big channel, or is a big kind of name in this scene in the UK, which is much bigger country than where I am. If anyone knows me, it’s mainly in Ireland. So yeah, much bigger name, I don’t know, more clout, whatever you want to call it.

And he just said:

“No problem.”

And that was about five hours before I had him on. You know, I didn’t give him notice, either. And he said, “sure thing“. And he came on and spoke to me for, I don’t know, an hour and a half? And that was a really nice conversation we had about that. It was about that, but it was about many more things as well.

And then the last time we spoke, the third and final time, was I asked him to come on and explain Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, to me. And which turned out to be, … it was very gracious of him, because he wanted to go deep dive into Primo de Rivera. And I had to just reel him in and say:

“I don’t even know what happened in the Spanish Civil War, you know!”

Which must have been hard for him, because he had to totally simplify it to my level! But he did! He did it without being resentful, or annoyed. He said:

“Okay. fair enough. I’ll baby step you through the whole thing.”

And we just had a great chat!

And so I don’t know, that’s all I ever knew of him. I never got to meet him. I’m sure I would have had met him. And I was looking forward to doing so, actually. But that’s life.

[55:00]

Horus: That’s right, there was a lot of us. I imagined he really enjoyed baby stepping through it, because that was kind of a labour of love for him. He was working on these videos and his book about it. But obviously, it isn’t finished.

By the way, I just wanted to say “waaayyy!” because you mentioned Jose Antonio! And that was a running joke through [chuckling]me and his show! He mentioned him every week for about six weeks! And then when he didn’t, I mentioned that he hadn’t mentioned it, to kind of rib him about it. And then it became something we had to mention every week. I think we didn’t the last week, or two, that we did the show. But it was a running joke until then. So I’m very glad that you cucked! I don’t know if you meant to. But I’m delighted that you mentioned him!

Gearóid Murphy: I didn’t know that he had spoken about him so much in some shows that I didn’t see, and all of that. But what a passion he had for Primo de Rivera! I can’t say that guy’s full name every time. But, and oh my god! He was like just so invested in that man’s life’s work. So I don’t know, in a way maybe if you want to, … and again I speak from a position of I spoke to him three times for three hours, which albeit small and non-physical, I feel like I did get to know him a little bit, you know, more than you might think in that period of time. And through watching his other stuff.

But I think maybe, you know, from our perspective from a distance if you wanted to pour over some works of a Primo de Rivera, or translations if you can’t speak Spanish, you’re almost getting to know and converse with Simon a little bit. because clearly it wasn’t just like reading for him. And I don’t know, maybe that’s a kind of a therapy, you know, to read that and just think:

“Oh yeah, he obviously knew this page and that page, because he was so obsessive about it.”

Horus: He was doing it in a scholarly way, I would say.

Gearóid Murphy: Yeah. Sorry, carry on.

Horus: No, go for it.

Gearóid Murphy: I don’t know what I was gonna say in! [chuckling]

Horus: Okay. Just, because you mentioned about how you could feel like you knew the guy almost immediately. Nick, would you feel the same, that almost and as soon as you made contact with Simon, he just feels like a familiar person?

Nick: I think I felt that way the first time I saw him streaming with Dionne, because I wasn’t really familiar with him until we started talking. I’d seen him on one stream and then went:

“Okay, I want you on as a guest. You’re a lovely man!”

Yeah . I just remember the stream that they did, thinking:

“I want to know him!”

And I’m very, very glad that I got to.

Horus: Have you got a cat there, by the way?

Nick: Oh yeah, she’s always scrambling for attention. Sorry.

Horus: Does she want to say something about Simon?

Nick: I don’t know. I mean, she was always watching every week, so she was a fan just as much as anyone else. I think she’s short on words now. she’s gone shy.

Horus: And about Jose Antonio, as well, I believe Keith is gonna be our guest in a little while. And his tribute, he said that his favorite Simon Harris video was one of the episodes of the series that Simon was doing about Jose Antonio, as well.

One other great thing, but that, was that Simon would say, “Jose Antonio a Primo de Rivera” in the proper accent! And, you know, better than any of us. So that’s another thing I’ll miss. [chuckling] Yeah, that was a mainstay of European Freedom! Every week Jose Antonio got a mention. it’s pretty fitting that that you had him on to talk about exactly that, I think.

Gearóid Murphy: Yes. It was so strange as well — and you can just cut me off whenever you want to here, or give me a warning. But I learned about it [Simon’s passing] through, and I think a lot of people are mentioning this kind of how strange this is. But I learned about it, I was streaming with two lads the other night. One of whom was Keith. And it came up in the chat just towards the end when I was getting ready to wrap up the show. And I just start seeing Simon Harris, PM [Private Message] in the chat. And I just couldn’t address it. I don’t know, I felt like is this tactful to do it, or not? Whatever. But I just thought like, I’m just gonna say goodnight and I’m gonna have to verify that, or something. It’s too strange just at the end of a chat, I don’t know what’s true, or what isn’t. But it was so strange and rattling to learn it that way. Kind of in a way insensitive. Not that I blame the chat, or any of that, but just such a strange way to learn something like that.

[60:00]

Horus: Could it be true?

Gearóid Murphy: Slightly, but like, you know, understandable too. And then, yet I only ever knew him through streaming, and here we are and I’m streaming in this way. So it’s just such a strange experience in that way. And yeah people mentioning how they felt like they knew him. I just thought he felt kind of like — and again I might be overstepping the mark to anybody. He may have nieces and nephews, I don’t mean to make any comparison. A sort of a kind of an uncle slash friend type of guy.

There was one thing he mentioned in our stream, the long stream we did just a general conversation, he mentioned this festival in Spain that he goes to. He said it’s a festival about spring onions, or something like that. And how as he described it, a lot of back-slapping and a lot of swigging wine from the same bottle . This kind of festival just great fun, or whatever. And I said at the end of our stream that I would like to join him at some point. And obviously he said:

“You must come over. We’ll go, I’ll take you out.”

I had it fully in my mind that I was going to do that next year, the year after, the one after that, whatever! But it wasn’t a flippant commitment. And I don’t know, he’s just that kind of guy.

The other thing as well, I would rate him as — like I sometimes within the movement think about the person who you would bring to a barbecue. You know, some people are intellectuals, some people are this and that.

I have this thing called the “barbecue test“. Like would you bring someone to a barbecue with your normie family, or something like that, right? And would they be able to speak to someone in a way that isn’t necessarily a political rant? And he would be maybe my number one guy. I think he could listen to someone, and engage, and have a good time and sing a song, drink a few beers, you know. And that’s what I think of him.

Horus: And he would drop in a deliberate red pill bomb here and there as well.

Gearóid Murphy: For sure! One or two.

Nick: On that note, I always had Simon pegged as the one person that I wanted my folks to meet, so that they would feel okay about all of this! I genuinely thought, if only I could just introduce them to Simon, then they’d just be like:

“Okay. It must be fine! This guy’s normal and like us!”

Horus: Keith, welcome! Do you have a barbecue test for people, as well?

Keith Woods

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Keith Woods: Yeah well, it’s funny hearing that, because yeah, that’s very relatable. I mean, I remember the first time I was talking to Simon, he did seem strangely familiar. But I think there was something about Simon, I have some family in the UK around his age, and I think he’s very representative of a certain generation of British, and Irish people as well, that are just good decent people. That kind of had their good nature taken advantage of. And he went in search of answers. And your show Horus, … I mean, Mark Collett’s show is probably, you know, the sort of the main show of this online space, whatever. But I’d really started enjoying yours and Simon’s show. And it turned into great show for the hot topic of the day, the big discussion. Whether it was the debate with Nick Griffin around electoral politics, or whatever else, you know.

And I think the reason for that is, because Simon himself was only interested in truth, and kind of honest inquiry. And so he always had his finger on the pulse because he was always genuinely looking for the same answers his audience were.

And it’s a strange thing like I put up the tribute to him and I mean, here we all are, you know, people that didn’t meet him personally. And there were so many people under my video said that they cried when they found out, or cried watching the video. And they were expressing sort of bemusement at it as well, that they were so emotional for someone that they’d never met.

And it is a weird thing, because it’s like I’ve been a few years kind of interacting with the space, listening to podcasts and following YouTubers, and so on. It’s never happened before that one of these people passed away, and it’s a weird thing, because it’s like when I heard Simon died, I went and watched the last show he did. And it was a weird feeling the last five minutes of the show, as it’s ending, you know, like Simon and many other people it’s like, you invite them into your home, and in a weird way it’s kind of an intimate experience, and you don’t realize how attached you are, or how much you feel like this person. And it was a strange feeling watching the stream knowing it’s the last time you’ll ever hear this man.

And yeah, it does make you really appreciate what a great guy he was.

Horus: Couldn’t agree more! Nick has said like that European Freedom should carry on. I got to tell in all truth, I don’t know if I’ve got what it takes to carry on, Nick. But I mean, I want to contribute, I want to do my bit. But I don’t know if I’ve got that same sort of continuous resolve that he had, or the ability to do , … I don’t know I’ve got my finger on the pulse quite so well.

[65:23]

Nick: I’m not sure it matters whether you do on your own. What’s important is that we have to, right? it’s not really an option on this one!

Horus: Well especially like Keith put his finger on like what was so valuable about it as well. I mean, is absolutely a good idea. it’s just, we’ll have to talk about it more in the next week.

Nick: No, I know what you mean, because he was so right about the zeitgeist thing. Especially in the last few months. Because we started off having quite broad discussions that were supposed to be sort of timeless. We were like:

“Okay, let’s unpack this word! Let’s see what this means.”

But then, the last couple of weeks it’s been like:

“We need to talk about this! This has been bubbling under the surface and I’m gonna rip that plaster off and make sure that we talk about it.”

That seemed to be Simon’s aim. Which made it sort of the unmissable point of the week! It was the most interesting point of the week, I think.

Horus: I’m delighted to hear that. I fully agree. And yeah, this is under the surface, let’s bring it to the surface . That is incredibly valuable! It’s dynamic!

Keith Woods: And he was the perfect person for that because, you know, everyone associated, loved him. No one had a bad word to say about Simon. And it was always clear that there was absolutely no ego involved. And that if he was taking a position it was, because he thought it was the best and the right position.

Even when me and Gearóid were on after the election, we were having like a mild disagreement, over like sort of an approach to electoral politics. And Simon was like the perfect mediator and all these discussions! You know, he was totally reasonable, and he could you could see both sides. And he’d gone through all of these sort of intellectual journeys himself. So he was the perfect person to face up to these conflicts and get a good resolution that everyone could agree on.

Gearóid Murphy: Mmm. For sure! There’s one thing as well that before we streamed that time he messaged me. I think he might have said it on, or off, camera, I don’t know. But he told me he had been binging on my videos. And it was such an alien concept to me, because I don’t know if you ever get this feeling, or some of you do, or maybe it’s just me. But you kind of go, there’s a part of you that kind of wonders why anybody might watch you, you know? That kind of imposter syndrome! And to think that this guy who, you know, I think he’s a little bit of a big deal and all of that, would say something like that. It’s quite nice!

And a lot of people, even if they did do that, they might not say it to you, you know, they might not want to put themselves, humble themselves so much before you, or whatever. But he had no problem saying that. It felt good! [chuckling] It was nice of him to say. I appreciated that.

I don’t know if I should get, … I’ll probably be in someone’s way, so will I just knock out one, or two, more bits of spiel, and, … while I have a chance to?

Horus: You can, … I’m going to introduce Alison in a minute. You can still be, you know, …

Gearóid Murphy: Oh, okay, I didn’t know, …

Keith Woods: I had a very similar experience. Because Simon used to leave comments on my channel when I only had a few hundred subscribers. So at the time, you see this guy with 17 or 18 thousand subs, whatever. And it’s all his words of encouragement.

You know that really means a lot, because I do think he went out of his way, because he saw it was so new on the scene and maybe didn’t have that many subs. I do think he went out of his way to always be very encouraging, and leave positive comments. So I mean, that’s a small thing, but you look back on that and you’re like, what a decent guy!

Horus: And he wasn’t just being kind, was he? He was doing it because he recognized quality and he wants to encourage more people to come forward. To be surrounded by interesting, strong, voices and stuff. So I have the same thing even with a following of just a couple of thousand people. If I see someone who’s got only 50 followers, but they’re doing good stuff, I just want to push them forward, you know. I want to be crowded out, if anything.

Nick: That was clearly his focus! Because that applies to, like all of us! He gave me a leg up. He gave you Horus a leg up. Keith just said the same thing. Yeah! And I think that was pretty unsung, as well. I don’t think anyone really noticed that until today.

Horus: Well, I always keenly aware of it, because I noticed that every video that I put out, he was going:

“This is, …”

Well, I don’t blow my own trumpet, but:

“This is extraordinary stuff!”

Like, yes! Cheers mate! Terrific! [chuckling]

And so, as I say, Gearoid, I’ve got to introduce Alison now. I don’t know if there is any quick thing you want to say?

[70:00]

Gearóid Murphy: No, no, go ahead.

Horus: Okay. Well you guys just stay as long as you want. Obviously if I have to introduce the next person in ten minutes, I’ll have to boot one of you.

Here is Alison Chabloz. Welcome Alison! How you doing?

Alison Chabloz

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Alison Chabloz: Hello! Can you hear me?

Nick: You’re quite, quiet. I don’t know if there’s a way to fix that.

Alison Chabloz: Yes, I’ve had a some device problems over the last few days. Is that better?

Horus: Yeah, it’s a little better.

Alison Chabloz: Okay. I can also pump my volume. That’s it. That’s maximum. I’ll try to speak up.

Horus: That sounds good, sounds good. Hello Alison. When we had you on European Freedom that was one of my absolute favorite ones! We talked about fascinating things that night. So I have a very happy memory of that. I think there was first time, … no it wasn’t the first time you and I spoke. And I assume that wasn’t the first time you spoke to Simon, either.

Alison Chabloz: I was trying to remember. I’m not sure whether that was perhaps the only stream I’ve done on your show. I’m not sure whether we were perhaps guests on another show, at one point. I’ve spoken to Simon quite a bit in the background. As people have already been saying, you know, he was always very supportive and very level-headed, and very sensible. And an absolute blessing to our little scene!

So yeah, it was a big shock, a big shock! Black Friday, can we say that day? It will remain in the annals. Well it was a Thursday he passed away, but we found out on the Friday, well I found out on the Friday. Just so sudden! As Dionne was saying it was such a shock, and that we are such small things when it comes down to it. We really do have to live each day as if it could be our last.

And yes, it was always an honor to talk to people who are intellectuals of the movement. I don’t consider myself to be an intellectual! I consider myself to be a minstrel! [chuckling] And, of course, Simon and I had that in common. He was also a musician.

And another thing we had in common is that both our dads used to work in the same town. So there was already a kind of brotherly sisterly feeling. And as others have said, yes he’s easy to talk to and authentic! Authentic in a way that the messages of support and condolences I saw on Saturday just say it all about how loved he was, and always will be. He will always be remembered. And he did great work. He himself was on a journey, I think. And he talked about those different parts, those different parts of his journey with openness, and as I say, with authenticity! A treasure. He was a treasure.

Horus: Well said. A lot of people in their sort of 60s, and 70s, they think, not that they know everything, but it just becomes less interesting to learn about the world. You get that sense, not at all with Simon. You sense that he was accelerating in some ways, he was grasping life more enthusiastically than ever, it seemed to me.

Alison Chabloz: Yes. And I think it was a Gearoid, I’m sorry if I don’t pronounce your name correctly, but, …

Gearóid Murphy: That’s okay.

Alison Chabloz: [chuckling] My gosh I lose track because I am suffering from exhaustion, apologies. It was just the authenticity and the level-headedness, and you could see from his tweets that he was also quite a figure within the Spanish political scene. How he explained how he worked with the Catalan Independence movement before realizing that this wasn’t the right path for him to go down.

And we can see it with all of us, I think, as the tyranny increases and as the oppression, and the New World Order, there’s a big, slow, heavy, gear shift at the moment that the language was becoming more weighted! The language of Simon’s tweets. And the fact that he was also not only implicated in politics back here, back in his homeland, but also his adopted homeland.

That’s another thing we had in common. I could have easily been in Simon’s position. After my first university degree I went to Spain. That was in 1987, where I spent a year. And I lived in Barcelona briefly for about three months. Like, I could speak good Spanish back in the day! that would take a while to come back.

But yeah, he was a lovely man and a great friend. And it’s so grateful that he, and, of course, everybody here on this platform, the host of this show, Nick and Shazia, that you approached me. All of you approached me, and Simon as well, and talked about my case. And I apologize for talking about me, but it means so much to me, and it always will. People who have been courageous enough to point out the discrepancies and the authorities’ treatment of me, musician, singer, in this supposedly bastion of the free world! And Simon was there for me, and therefore I’ll always be grateful and always remember him with utmost fondness.

Horus: When you and I did a conversation, some six weeks ago, something like that, I said to you, I think that I really didn’t pay attention. I used to see this hashtag, whatever, people saying, “Free Alison Chabloz”, or:

“Why are you talking about free speech, but, you’re not talking about Alison Chabloz?”

I simply, I think I ignored your case for a while, and I just I didn’t realize the significance of it. And when I did, I sort of thought:

“Well, I’ve got something to make up for, I guess. Or just to get on the right path, you know.”

But obviously, … I don’t want to go into anything confidential, but you’ve got a special reason for mentioning this at the present time. So I totally don’t blame you for talking about it.

Alison Chabloz: You’ve tweeted out the article. I don’t need to go into it anymore tonight. It’s not the right time, or place. But yes, the fact that the authorities would like me to be unpersoned, but thanks to Simon, and yourself, and Shazia, and many others, well I think the authorities were rather concerned, …

Horus: I mean, I was just looking at Jared’s channel The Great Order before I came on. He had a video that he’d cut out from his longer chat with him with Jason, No White Guilt, as well. And it was just, I think the title of the video was something like “Simon Harris Red Pill Machine“. [chuckling] That’s a brilliant appellation! I mean, whatever goes on his gravestone, which is nothing to do with us, but on his “virtual gravestone” you could have “Red Pill Machine!” and that’s a nice, not to sum up the whole of his character, but is one great thing to attribute to his name.

Alison Chabloz: Yeah, and another massive quality that he had was the tone of voice that he would use to put across his ideas, and his thoughts, and his questions. It was always just absolutely perfect! He had that way of putting putting himself across. The tone of voice which I can kind of hear as I’m talking about him and his voice. Yes, he really did have a wonderful voice in every sense of the word. And thank goodness, you know, all these recordings will live on. His voice will live on by this legacy that was his gift.

Horus: It certainly will. Yeah, he was such a genial fellow, as well. And I must say Gearóid, I’m sorry I’m mispronouncing your name as well, I will have to remove you now to make way for Mark. But thank you very much for coming on.

Gearóid Murphy: That’s all good. Thanks for having me. Rest in peace Simon.

Keith Woods: You can drop me out as well if you want.

But before, I would just say one thing. I mean, we touched on it there, and I’m sure Mark will as well, but the fact that he set up his show in such a way that he wanted to kind of rip off the plaster and sort of resolve any contradictions, or any problems, he saw.

And he was obviously motivated by getting people on the same page, and having unity, and having people go on the same journey he did. I think if there’s one thing he definitely be proud of its the fact that here we all are tonight and he’s got, you know, people from the UK, and Ireland, and the US. And the show was called European Freedom, and here everyone has come together to honor him. So I’m sure he’d be more proud of that than anything. So well done to everyone.

Nick: Here! Here!

[80:37]

Horus: And just before I do introduce Mark, I saw Alphago in the chat say “Minstrellectual”. [chuckling] I think that goes quite well for him. So yeah, thanks for coming on Keith. You obviously you can stay on, or drop out, you know, when the next guest comes on. And yeah, cheers mate!

And so I will now introduce Mark Collett. Welcome Mark! how you doing?

Mark Collett

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Mark Collett: Hi. Yeah obviously I think we’re all a little shell-shocked by what happened. I think you were the one who told me something was wrong. You were texting me, I think it was late Thursday night, wasn’t it, saying, … or was it late Friday night?

Horus: Yeah, late Friday night.

Mark Collett: Friday night, saying you thought something had happened. And I immediately went onto his Facebook, because I was Facebook friends with him. And obviously my heart sank, because I saw the kind of messages that were being left on his Facebook wall. And I knew then, that what we all had feared after what he said in the karaoke chat:

“Had taken a real turn for the worst.”

And obviously, we lost him!

And the first thing I’ve got to do is say, not only was Simon very, very valued in our community, and very much loved, but he will also be very, very much missed! And he is someone that has been taken from us far, far, too young. He had so much to give. He’d already given so much.

But Simon was one of those guys that you felt would be in this for the long haul. I mean, I’ve got to say that I offer obviously my condolences to all of his friends and his family. And tomorrow night I’m going to dedicate the whole of PWR to Simon, to his memory. And if all of you guys want to join me, just drop in whenever you can for five minutes, or ten minutes, and give your thoughts on Simon. That would be fantastic!

PWR’s, in one form and another, being going now for over 150 episodes, that’s for three years. And we usually get very, very healthy viewing numbers. And I think Simon’s been a guest twice. He was very, very welcomed and very much loved by the community and the people who watch PWR. And I think that it would only be a fitting tribute for me to give him an entire final episode, so that we can all remember him. And so that can go in the PWR archives. And so we really all have something where we can come together.

I know you’re doing this tonight. But I just I couldn’t have gone ahead with the show. We had a show planned with Emily Youcis. Now, I just couldn’t have gone ahead with that and not given Simon a full episode to honor his work.

And the reason Simon’s work is so important, or the reason I feel that Simon’s work is so important, is Simon was a very much a man’s man! He was a tough guy, but he could also acknowledge when he was wrong, he could acknowledge when he had taken the wrong path, and he was very thoughtful. And often those two things don’t go hand in hand. Often people who are strong men struggle to admit when they’ve taken the wrong path. But Simon was not only a strong man, but one of the great things about listening to his work was there was that clear evolution of who he was and what he believed in, a journey of truth that he was going on. And that journey of truth had taken him to the ethno-nationalist community.

And I’ll give you one of my reflections of Simon. And this is something that will live with me for the rest of my life. The last time I spoke to Simon privately, just mean him talking, he talked to me about the sadness he felt that he couldn’t make the conference in March. And me and him had a bit of a heart-to-heart. And he said he was very, very disappointed, because he didn’t feel that he got to truly experience meeting everyone. He felt that this community was a home, but he said the conference to him was meant to be like a homecoming.

[85:00]

He wanted to be in a room with people he felt were his political family. And I said to him at the time, I said:

“Look mate, don’t worry about it. There’s gonna be more conferences.”

I said:

“I hope you’ll join us in September.”

And he said:

“Of course I will. I’m gonna be there. I can’t wait to meet everyone!”

And reflecting on that final private conversation with him, it brings me an awful lot of sadness, because he was a man that had so much to live for. I know he was a slightly older gentleman, but he still had so much fire! So much passion! And after going on this long political journey, he felt like he’d found his home. And he just wanted to come home to us and meet us all, and be in the company of people who he could be himself around.

And it will always be a lasting sadness for me personally, that I never got to shake his hand, and I never got to meet him in person.

[86:03]

Horus: There is a tragic note that brings a tear to the eye. Yeah. I think it’s a lovely idea to have open house tomorrow. It’s sort of something that a lot of people do after someone’s dying, and before the funeral, or the wake afterwards. So I think in a way that’s what you’re doing. That’ll be a lovely thing to have tomorrow.

And when Laura was on earlier I said, and I think Shazia and Nick agreed that Simon’s speech, he couldn’t hear us. He couldn’t hear us applauding and laughing and stuff.

But we thought he could, because his speech came across so naturally. So it’s tragic that he was prevented from coming to the conference. But it is lovely and something cheerful to remember that he still did that much and he gave us something. I hope he got something out of it as well. But it is still lovely that he managed to do that much.

Mark Collett: The one thing that I do feel happy about though, is that at the conference when he said he couldn’t speak [hear], I know his speech wasn’t perfect in the sense that he didn’t get to hear us. And he was quite upset that during his speech he couldn’t hear the crowd. And it’s very difficult to speak to a crowd of people if you aren’t getting any form of reaction. When you speak on a show like this, you see the live chat, and it gives you real feedback to how things are going.

But his speech was superb!

But I am happy that even though he couldn’t attend on the morning of the conference we still moved everything around, we changed the order of the speakers, and we still made sure he could appear, even if it’s via videolink. And even though he wasn’t there in person, he was there. And that day he inspired so many people, as he’s been inspiring so many people for so long.

And when I say he went on a journey, some people go on a journey of discovery on their own. But the beautiful thing about Simon’s life, is he went on that journey of discovery. And it wasn’t alone! He took hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of people with him on that journey! And he led them to the truth, to this community. And I believe that Simon should always be remembered as a strong, heroic man, who always sought the truth.

And he didn’t just seek it for his own personal gratification, or knowledge. He sought the truth so he could help others. And so he could help others to that truth with him. And that’s what makes him stand out as such an incredible man! And a man that we’re all gonna miss so dearly.

I used to remember – this a little personal reflection of mine. But in the chat on a Wednesday night of PWR, you would always see Simon in the chat. And when he’d come in and say hello to everyone the chat would light up with:

“Hi Simon!”

To think that this Wednesday will be honoring him, but we won’t see his name pop up in the chat, we won’t see that string of really fast messages all saying:

“Hi Simon! How are you doing? Enjoyed your stream last week. Looking forward to your next one!”

That’s something, that very, very sad. And it’s very moving.

Because I know this community sometimes feels disjointed. And I know that it isn’t as close and as organic as it should be, because of the geographical separation between us. And the fact much of our work takes place online. But no one could ever accuse this community of not having heart.

And it’s moments like this. I know this is a very sad time, but seeing everyone being pulled together, and seeing such a genuine outpouring of love for such a wonderful man. I really hope he’s smiling down on us. And I really hope that he seems today, tomorrow, with all the tributes shows that are going on, just how much he was genuinely loved! And just how much he will be missed!

[90:43]

Horus: Yeah, I think he was a man who wanted to take us on the “truth journey”. And he wanted us to be there with him. He wanted us to be there alongside him. That’s the way I see it.

Mark, if there’s any last thing you want to say? I’m gonna introduce St. Harrison, who’s the next guest.

Mark Collett: No I don’t want to take any one else’s time. I just want to thank everyone who’s here tonight. Please be with us tomorrow. Everyone who’s here now is welcome, even if it’s just two minutes, five minutes, just to come on and say hello. We will be spamming that link to the GoFundMe throughout the entire show.

So that if anyone wants to donate to his family they can. And just to reiterate what I’ve said, he was such an incredible man! He went on such an incredible journey. And it will always be a lasting sadness for me that I never got to shake his hand!

Simon Harris we will miss you so much my friend!

Horus: Well said mate. I’ll be there tomorrow.

St Harrison, welcome mate.

Saint Harrison [91:50]

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St. Harrison: Thank you for having me.

Horus: Cool! Yeah, so how’s things?

St. Harrison: Well, it’s very somber evening. But, it was weird wasn’t it? Because normally he’s quite active in our group chats. And then it’s kind of, … We’ve had not heard from Simon for a couple of days, … Maybe Simon’s had a day off, because occasionally people have a little rest from Telegram.

And then we found out what’s happened. And it’s kind of a case of, you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone.

I mean, I never spoke to Simon personally. I never got around to having a Harrison & Harris stream. Which would have been fun I think, because he did have the same sarcastic sense of humor as I do. Although I’m not sure what I would have called it, because he said he didn’t like how I titled my videos! And when he said that I thought:

“What a tart!”

[Horus chuckles] But then that might have been, because I took the piss out of him a bit in a video about the PA Conference! When I said:

“He appeared via video link, like someone who couldn’t be arsed to accept an award!”

But he knew I was joking.

I mean, the first video I watched of Simon’s was one about the “Three Girls” drama he did a few years back. And he pointed out things that are completely missed in that program. And how they just focused on the uselessness, rather than the racial element.

And then I started watching him more when he was covering the Catalan issues, because he was over there. He was obviously knew what was going on. And he was raising points again that I, and probably others, hadn’t thought of.

I know he came in for some stick I think a few times, for being an Englishman abroad, but like Dionne, Chris, Jake, he still cared about us, cared about England. And wanted, right until the end, he was pumping out stuff for the cause.

I think the good thing is that the wealth of content he’s made, it’s still there for everyone to watch over. And we can all bring over the higher intellect newbies to his videos. And he still got his European Freedom site as well. So his hard work, won’t go to waste. I think that’s what he’d want.

Horus: I think it’d be a struggle for anyone to cast doubt on his commitments to the cause, wherever he lived. And he spoke himself about how it was some discomfort for him that he lived abroad, where I think he said as he got older he would have liked to have returned to Britain. I don’t think he had any plans to.

About that Three Girls video, I watched that one a couple of months ago, because I was doing research for these videos I’m releasing at the moment, …

St. Harrison: Yeah.

Horus: And that is one minor source of regret for me, that he won’t see the Sixth Part of this series I’m doing. Because that discusses Three Girls as well. It’s not all about that.

But, yeah, I mean, if there is an afterlife, … Well he might have better things to do! [chuckling] But I hope he gets to see these last three parts of these videos I’m doing. Because I took some inspiration, … Sorry, say again.

[95:02]

St. Harrison: You never know, there might well be an after life! And if a comment in the chat appears from him, we’ll all shit ourselves! [Horus chuckling] But it will be for a good reason!

Horus: I mean, he might appear tomorrow to do with customary reply in the chat for PWR? I don’t know. It’s nice thought! It’ll be a comforting thought. It would be like ghosts, when Patrick Swayze manages to, … I’m cheapening it. Sorry!

St. Harrison: Are you cheapening ghosts, or are you cheapening the evening?

Horus: Oh, I’ll go with the first one, that gets me off the hook! There we go. [laughter].

I mean, I loved his sense of humor. He liked to rip people! He likes to throw some things out there. It was good. It was challenging.

St. Harrison: Yeah it wasn’t all serious was it? He wasn’t, … Although he sometimes came across as quite serious. I know when you two do your streams and you’re talking about the “Cathedral”, and half of us haven’t got clue what you’re talking about. And the other half understand. But then he’d also come out with these witty comments on Twitter, and in his videos as well. So he did appeal to everyone across the spectrum, which I think there’s another reason why he’ll be missed.

Horus: Such an easy guy to get along with. Vigilante Jesus, in the chat, has been putting in some of Simon’s tweets, and quotes, and stuff. And it makes you realise, apart from many other things, he was also quite a wordsmith, as well! I mean, we all know he was, he was a writer as well. But he could also be pithy as well. He’s a man of many talents.

Speaking of “The Cathedral”, Ralph is gonna be our next guest. I’m afraid Ralph, if you’re listening, there won’t be time to discuss “The Cathedral” tonight, unless you’re speaking about spiritual matters! Yeah, in that sense, yeah.

Which, of course, Simon did mention several times. He had a growing attraction to the Christian faith. I don’t know how orthodox. But I mean, he spoke of how much he got out of spending time in churches and cathedrals. And obviously he’s in the right place for that in Barcelona, as well.

St. Harrison: All that Catalan stuff was good as well, because he went out there a couple of times in the street and spoke to people. And he was saying how they didn’t have a plan for what they were going to do after. I think that’s something that he certainly brought to us in our plans, in knowing that it’s all very well us having an end point, so to speak, but no more with everything afterwards, ..

Horus: Yeah, whether it is the end, or not. Kerry Boomer just put in the chat an apt quote:

“Everyone in the Spanish government are cunts! — Simon Harris.”

And I think Nick shared that one earlier as well.

Nick: I did, I did! I saw that someone else had. And I just thought maybe, we should keep this up as a thing, because I’m sure there’s years of quality tweets. [Horus laughing] What I was gonna say about “The Cathedral” and struggling to follow it. This is a good thing about Simon’s channel is that some of them do require a re-watch. Some of them you probably can’t digest it at once. So it’s gonna be worth going back to it.

St. Harrison: Definitely! Because I didn’t understand it!

Horus: About “The Cathedral”, it is somewhat counterintuitive, and, …

St. Harrison: It’s far too big brain for me.

Horus: Yeah. I mean, it entails thinking not in terms of people. But in terms of roles as Ralph would remind us.

I’m gonna introduce Ralph in a moment now. I’m gonna have to drop out for about five minutes, because one can’t wholly sustain three and a half hours without some physical movements. God! I made that sound worse! It’s basically, what I mean, is I’m gonna need a wee. [laughter] But once I’m introduced Ralph, I will know that he’ll be able to talk for a long enough for me to go and come back. I’m not being emotional!

St. Harrison: I’ll drop out if you like.

Horus: Okay mate. Thank you very much coming on.

St. Harrison: Thank you for having me.

Horus: Yeah, excellent, and speak to you soon.

St. Harrison: Speak to you soon. Bye all!

Horus: Cheers mate! And Ralph welcome to the stream! How are you doing?

Ralph Masilamani (Right Reaction) [99:28]

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Ralph: Oh it’s quite moving listening to all. Evening everyone! How are you Nick, Allison, Shaz, Horus? But yeah, quite moving listening to it all. Yeah, I’m still quite in shock to be honest. I still could can’t believe he’s not there is. I only spoke to him a few days prior to the event. Yeah, I don’t know if you want to hear my, I guess, my journey with Simon. It’s quite a different one from you chaps.

I first spoke to him on the phone I think two and a half years ago. Because out of the blue I had a couple of friends when I was working my way around the movement, figuring out what was going on. And I had a couple of people kept saying:

“Do, you know, Simon Harris? Do you know, Simon Harris?”

I was like:

“No. I have no idea who he is.”

So, and they kept saying:

“Oh, I want to be introduced to Simon.”

And eventually I thought will just screw this! So I just reached out to Simon directly, out of the blue, and I said:

“Look I don’t really know you. I’ve been reading some of your blog stuff that looks really interesting. And can I just introduce you, … And you don’t know me, can I introduce you to random people?”

And he was so warm and said:

“Of course no problem.”

So I hooked up these, perhaps up to three people, that way. And then we spoke. I mean, we communicated by email maybe five, or six times from 2018-19, just randomly.

And then eventually I think I finally spoke to him, and properly, with you Horus on that first stream, where the three of us were, right? I think you remember that one. We talked about [word unclear] nationalism. And you say don’t mention, the “Cathedral”. But I think I have to, because what’s remarkable about Simon was we did those great streams that people liked about the Cathedral. And then he wanted more of them. And then he thought:

“This is just too much for me, and I’m gonna have to think about it.”

And before I came on tonight I counted, in total, he’d watched 37 different Neo-reactionary videos! And sent me about 40 different emails, and documents, and comments, as he was trying to reconcile his entire worldview against its all Neoreactionary madness, right? And I think it speaks like volumes, the fact that he was so like diligent, and dedicated, and just determined to understand something, that he put his mind to. And I had to check, even though he said:

“Okay, I’m gonna have to go back to my Spanish series videos.”

It was only like eight, or nine days ago, the last message going:

“Is this what that means? And this is what that means in Cathedral and Neoreactionary thinking?”

So I think it’s a speaks volumes to a man who has such, I think integrity intellectually, on that level. So that was all the Cathedral stuff.

And then on the personal stuff it’s quite interesting. Because, I think of my final phase at Simon, is I’m stumbling my way to all this kind of social media personality nonsense. And obviously we all make mistakes. And Simon was always there for me going:

“No pull that video down. Don’t say this, say that.”

And he was a great mentor. It was always very humble, very egoless, always replied very promptly to all my communications. And I can’t think of anything to spite the character of the man. And I genuinely feel like even though I’ve only known him for a short period of time, I feel a very personal lots I feel like the movement has lost a great man, and a stalwart, if you like.

And I think there’s one thing we should take from this is we should, do Simon’s memory justice, by giving our best for what time he would have wanted to. And that’s kind of my views on that.

Nick: I think the word “mentor”. I think that’s the word that we’re gonna agree is the word of the night, isn’t it? Because he’s given that to so many people. It seems like most of the people that have come on he helped them move on in some way.

[103:04]

Ralph: Yeah, I think even the personality, he was quite, yeah, I think the word “integrity” springs to mind. Because I remember even with my last stuff – I know the cathedral stuff can “mind-fuck” people – he just was determined like, you know, like Dastardly and Muttley in the Wacky Racist cartoons! He was just like:

“Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!”

He just wanted to know.

And even when he thought like:

“Okay we’re done with this.”

I thought:

“Right, I won’t hear from Simon about the Cathedral.”

He just kept coming! Because he just wouldn’t let go of how to reconcile like his Third Position worldview against this stuff. And I think of, good gosh a man 60! And he was healthy, which was really bizarre. I’ve had the Covid, it’s been as bad, quite horrid really. And I spoke to him, and I could tell he wasn’t well. But he was very reticent to kind of share things. But didn’t take long for me to think:

“Right. You’ve got the same respiratory stuff.”

But he seemed very like, almost like, calm about it. And I know exactly how he felt, because I’m living it right now, or have been for six weeks. And I noticed even in that sickness he was very calm.

So I knew something in my spider-sense, I knew something was wrong. Because he always replied the next day, at the latest. And I hadn’t heard from over two, or three days. And then Horus was on the horn saying:

“I haven’t heard from Simon. Have you heard from Simon?”

And that point something was this kind of like visceral feeling you get. A kind of spidey sense. And yeah now we know, obviously. So yeah, it’s thoughts and prayers with Simon and his family, obviously. And, you know, great stuff with Shazia, Horus to do what they’re doing here, so.

Horus: You’re a Christian aren’t you, Ralph?

Ralph: I’m afraid I have, yes. [chuckling]

Horus: Don’t worry. I’m not criticizing. I mean, I’ve only known him for less than a year, or something, actually. Something I noticed he mentioned increasing, I first noticed when we had Jacktion on. Jacktion will be on here later, as well.

But when we first had him on the show, Simon’s first start talking about faith. I mean, maybe he’d been talking about it for years before. But it was the first I was aware of it. And did you talk to him about matters of faith, at all?

[105:07]

Ralph: It came up really in a very strange way, because we were talking about the cathedral stuff. And then I laughed, because I like Gaudi. I said:

“Well, you know, you live in Barcelona. So obviously you have this [word unclear] of Sagrada Família, and stuff like that.”

And then we had two little conversations, and he asked me about how my faith changes my worldview and politics? And how does it feel like, have I ever been without faith? And I never asked him, I think it’s quite rude. I mean, personally I don’t like to inquire about people’s faith, unless they tell me first. But I could always sense there was something there. I wasn’t sure if he was a Christian, or used to be when I was young. Or was rediscovering his faith. But there was definitely something in that conversation, because I can tell by the tone.

And when we went through the Sagrada F amília, we did all the kind of mechanical stuff. And then I was like:

“Oh yeah.”

And I’ve been to a few churches, and we spoke about architecture in Barcelona, and Gaudi, specifically. And I would say:

“Yeah. But I was obviously going to the church, also to go to church.”

And I could tell there was something there. And that’s quite common I think, lots of people typically in their latter third of their life, do look for something beyond. So that would not surprise me if he was, let’s just say, rekindling his search for the spiritual.

Nick: I’m gonna have to listen to the very first one that the three of us did together, again. Because it ended up in that kind of zone, didn’t it? Where, do you remember this Horus? Where Simon was sort of looking straight at the:

“Do you believe in God question.”

And us and the whole audience were basically silent. [Horus chuckles] The only time when I’ve been on a stream when no one was saying anything, and no one minded. It’s amazing!

Horus: [chuckling] You’re a Christian too, Nick?

Nick: Ah, yes! Yes! It’s very, … Part of that is:

“Who done it?”

If you look at the map of what’s going on, and go:

“I mean it does say that in the book.”

Horus: Part of that is a matter of identity.

Nick: There’s all sorts in there. But I like teasing him with this concept of “good and evil”. Like:

“Do you believe in good and evil?”

Because, if you do, I don’t believe you can be a proper atheist. I don’t know. It was a fun conversation.

Ralph: Yeah. And it’s funny even with the cathedral stuff where we spoke a lot about, because I’m hoping to get Dr. E Michael Jones, now that things have lifted again, to have a debate with a big Christian chap at Speaker’s Corner. And I was talking to Simon about “blood and soil” and the ethnos without the logos, and I could feel even there he was like:

“Well, we need a spirit. If you’re an atheist you need some spiritual sense, right? There’s got to be some, … It can’t just be blood and soil right. It must be blood and soil and spirit.”

And he kept asking questions, that were questions a lot of people ask. I’d like to say spiritual, but not sure what that spirit means. They think there’s more than just mechanics. So he was definitely a very, very curious, very cognizant of spirit, for sure.

Alison Chabloz: So Ralph there is a famous pilgrimage, not far from Simon’s part of the world, the Santiago de Compostela. I was wondering if he knew about that. I am sure Simon did. I think I remember him saying something about that. Quite a lot of people that I know as well.

Ralph: Do you mean the actual famous, you mean the actual trail. Yeah that’s during the Reconquista when the Christians finally reconquered in the period going up to 1492, and the Reconquista, and taking out the Muslims. There’s a famous pilgrimage trail that marks all the – I’ve been to parts of it – that marks all the Spanish churches that literally were burned and fought over as a battle fault line to evict Islam from Europe. So when you think of the Reconquista, we think of the Santiago de Compostela as that kind of fault line, if you like, between Christianity in Europe and the rejection of Islam.

And it has some of the most beautiful like baroque and Gothic churches. Very, very interesting fusion, Romanesque churches. If you’re ever in that part of the world it’s worth it just for the architecture. And it’s obviously quite a famous pilgrimage. So I think that’s what you’re referring to, I think, right?

Alison Chabloz: Yes, that is right. Yes.

Ralph: So yeah, that’s his part the world. I think Simon mentioned it. I think he mentioned he’d been mapping it for I think Spanish political reasons, as much as religious reasons, right. Because it’s quite significant in Spanish politics, as well. It’s a kind of fault line for cs.

Horus: Ralph, thanks for coming on. I’m going to introduce Dan the Iconoclast now, is there anything, any last thing you want to say?

Ralph: No. Well, god bless Simon and his family! And my thoughts and prayers are still with his family. Great stuff chaps for all the work you’ve done for this.

[110:04]

Horus: Yes, there’s no accident that Simon invited you to our show, I think, three times.

Ralph: [chuckling] Indeed. He made three mistakes! Have a good one guys.

Horus: Cheers for coming on. I’ll speak to you soon.

Alison Chabloz: I shall also say goodbye. Thank you very much, and well done for hosting this important stream. Thanks a lot. Good night everyone.

Horus: Thank you very much Alison.

Shazia: Thank you Alison.

Horus: Dan. Welcome! How are you doing?

Dan (The Iconoclast)

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Dan (Iconoclast): Hello! Well yeah, all things considered I’m doing okay mate. How you guys doing? It’s been a good show so far, lots of good guests coming in, lots of people paying their respects. It just goes to show how much Simon meant to basically everyone. And none of us met him in real life! Isn’t that a testament to the man?

Horus: It is literally none of us.

Nick: No, none of us! I said that in my PA wrap-up. Like, out of everyone, I wanted a pint with him, the most. And I did intend to go to Barcelona at some point. Mainly to get out of the UK. But now, I don’t think any, … Wait Shaz, did you? No you didn’t, did you. You pulled out of something that was supposed to happen. So yeah, none of us.

Dan (Iconoclast): Yeah, it’s funny, because at times like this you get all reflective. And you think back to all the times you interacted with Simon.

And the first time I came across him was three years ago, when I started my channel for the first time. I think it was only about a month, or two old. And he started messaging me on Twitter, … Again like many people have said tonight, just with words of encouragement and saying:

“Oh I really enjoyed this video of yours!”

And just compliments galore! And I didn’t know who he was at the time, and I checked him out. We chatted for a while, learnt who he was, a British guy living in Barcelona. He had a really interesting life story.

And it was a shame. Because the week before he messaged me I was actually in Barcelona, I was on a holiday with my girlfriend. And I thought, if he’d messaged me just before I went, I probably would have tried to see him, or something. Because he was such a warm guy! You could tell he wasn’t a bullshit artist. He wasn’t ill intended in any way. He’s just a good guy! And it came across immediately.

You know, it in these circles were always concerned about people trying to, in my case, you know, it’s happened many times, people trying to dox me by trying to get me out into a pub, or something, [chuckling] and sneakily taking a picture! You know, you’ve got to take these things into account sometimes.

But I knew Simon wouldn’t be that sort of man. He was a completely honest man. And we chatted for a good while. And then I interviewed him for my channel later on in 2017, about the Catalonia Independence marches. And after that we kind of went our separate ways for a few years.

And it all culminated Horus, with me coming on European Freedom a few weeks ago. And it was the first time Simon and I had spoken since then. Which is crazy to think! Now I’m feeling regretful! Because that’s three years that I could have been really valuing Simon as a friend! Whereas we were, you know, it’s funny how this happens, isn’t it?

But I guess there’s nothing you can do about it now. You don’t think that this person that you respect and admire, is suddenly just gonna disappear! Nobody thinks that way. So I think we’re all a bit guilty of thinking we’ve got more time with everyone than we do.

And that’s what I’ve been thinking about this weekend. It’s such a tragedy, but yeah. I mean, I don’t a ramble on, … It’s just amazing that none of us actually met him in person!

Horus: And I suppose maybe it’s extra galling, because you did me and Anne Marie Waters, both of you! [Dan and Horus laughing]

Nick: Good way to address that elephant in the room!

Dan (Iconoclast): [chuckling] Well, here’s the thing, I knew Simon and Anne Marie didn’t get on. But I don’t actually know the story as to why. And I was hoping that he’d tell the story to me one day. Maybe he told it somewhere else, and I can watch it back. But yeah, thanks for that Horus, that’s a nice reminder! [chuckling]

Horus: I’ve said to a few people, I just assumed, 100 percent assumed, that I would have years more of sort of friendship and comradeship with him. I just had no thought that he wouldn’t be around. And that’s probably just my self-centred nature. I just take people for granted sometimes. He was certainly one. His age didn’t occur to me. And I just thought, as I said earlier I thought he was accelerating, you know.

[115:00]

Dan (Iconoclast): The thing is mate, like yeah he’s 60 years old. But that’s not old these days! I mean, my dad is 60 years old, my mom is 60 years old. I don’t think if them as “elderly”, you know, that’s just not what that comes into my mind! And Simon, you know, his enthusiasm, and his energy every time you made a video, or whether he’s on a stream. And his humour as well, which is very under-appreciated, by the way, his humour. His sharp sense of humour, which I really appreciated.

You would never look at a guy like Simon and think:

“Oh, he’s an older guy!”

You just didn’t think about it at all. And in our circles age doesn’t really come into it. Which is interesting, because in almost every other aspect of life, that’s something that you would take note of, and it would matter in some way. But here, especially with Simon, none of us thought about that at all! And like you said Horus, you just assumed that you had a couple of decades left with him, because 60, it’s no age.

Horus: And he didn’t make much of his age. I don’t think he felt out of place, or anything whatsoever, I think. I mean, there are a few like people, I suppose, in their 50s but he was one of the older ones. I know you Shazia, your friend James Wills is one of the oldest people who was at the PA conference.

Shazia: [words unclear]

Horus: Sorry, you’re a bit muffled again, Shazia.

Shazia: I said he’s 85.

Horus: Right. And yeah, I was pleased to meet him at the conference. But yeah, age doesn’t seem to matter that much. I just assumed it wouldn’t, … I don’t know if it did matter in Simon in him dying.

But he seemed like he had loads of things on the go. He had loads of thoughts for the future. He had loads of things he wanted to do. He was publishing books. He was writing a book. He had more video ideas than he could make. And unlike me, he never seemed to get too stressed about that! He just did it. But I punish myself for not getting more things done! But he was calm and steady, which was really reassuring to be around and to talk to.

Nick: I think that is an age thing. I think he had hit the point where he’s like:

“Right. I’m going to decide what to give a fuck about!”

And he sort of piled things into and went:

“There’s everything I don’t give a fuck about! That can just go! Not gonna bother with that!”

But he definitely seemed like he was in his stride. Didn’t he? It’s crazy. We clipped a little bit of last week’s stream for the end of Vile. And just the way he was saying, like:

“I’ll see you next week.”

Really hit me in the guts! It’s really nasty.

Dan (Iconoclast): Yeah, I think with a guy like Simon, people are saying in the chat, he was just coming into his stride. And that’s true. And here’s the thing about him, he had the confidence of a man who had lived a life! Right?

I remember when I was speaking to him in 2017. Of course, we’re talking about the Catalonia thing. Because that’s what his passion was at the time. The Independence movement. It’s quite funny actually, if you look back at that video that we did together. I think it’s still on my channel, it must be. [chuckling] Because at the time the Spanish police were cracking down on the Catalonia protests. And, you know, proper civilization at attitudes from the pair of us, we were like:

“Yeah, those Spanish police are a bit fascistic aren’t they!”

I was like:

“Oh god!”

It’s a bit cringe to watch now! But Simon and I had a laugh about it on European Freedom a couple of weeks ago. Just how far we both came.

But yeah, getting back to my original point there, he had the confidence of a man who had lived a life. And he did live a life.

I remember speaking to him about his youth and how he first found himself in Barcelona. He was part of a band, he was a musician. I think he was a part of some sort of weird African band, or something! [laughter] Something very odd, and niche! [chuckling] And I’m just like:

“Wow! This guy he really tries a lot of stuff, doesn’t he? He really puts himself out there! He doesn’t give a shit! In the best possible way.”

And it’s that honesty that I think really shined through with Simon. That shined through in his content especially. And when you’re just speaking to him as a person. And yeah, I think a lot can be learned from Simon in the way he lived his life. How he did lots of different things.

And yeah! I mean, to get to 60 and still be really coming into your element and doing the best work that you’ve ever done! I mean, it’s a testament to him, it really is.

Horus: I couldn’t agree more.

If there’s any last thing you want to say, I want to introduce The Ayatollah soon.

Dan (Iconoclast): Oh no, that’s fine for me, mate. Yeah, rest in peace Simon! You will be missed. But you won’t be forgotten. And I hope people are consuming his content now. I’m really appreciating it in a different way. And I think while I’m here, I’ll just say that it’s probably a good idea if people start archiving his stuff, just in case YouTube get some dodgy ideas. I’m sure people are already doing that, I can’t imagine that they’re not.

So, yes. Thanks for having me on. And good show! And remember everyone, you can still donate to the GoFundMe to help his family out. I suggest you do. So, thanks guys. Good night!

[120:29]

Horus: Thank you Dan speaking of testaments to Simon I think Ayatollah’s avatar says something. Maybe a gesture towards the spirit of Simon in the last couple years.

Welcome Ayatollah.

Ayatollah (representing TASOB)

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Ayatollah: Evening all. Yeah I must confess I’ve not been able to listen to the stream. So I’ve literally just come on. So I’ve missed it all. But yeah, to be honest I think I spoke for us all, The Absolute State of Britain really, the other night, after we got the news. Which was the most horrendous shock. Put together a bit of a tribute that went out on our Telegram Channel and posted it through Twitter. And we probably said it all there.

The point Dan made there about archiving his works a really important one, because it wasn’t just that it was really enjoyable. I mean, Simon, I’ve made this point elsewhere, Simon really could have read the small print on a car insurance policy and made it sound interesting! Or a car loan and you would have been interested in, like consumer finance, having heard about it. He was just that sort of bloke in all sort of facets in his delivery.

But it was the fact that the work, a bit like what you’ve been doing Horus, it was unique, in that it was researched. It was so informative.

And I always refer back to the stuff about the Protocols, among other stuff. But obviously the work publishing books there’s a lot responsibility in that. And there’s a lot of discipline required.

You could do that sort of thing without necessarily be interesting and enjoyable. But in Simon’s case it was, because he just had this way of doing things.

But I could sit here and wax lyrical without pausing for breath. But yeah, there’s plenty I could say.

Horus: I think the thing that you wrote on Friday night, wasn’t it?

Ayatollah: Yeah, it was within a couple of hours of us getting the news. I sought first heard from Shazzia in one of the Telegram groups shortly after midnight. And it was, I think I posted it about quarter to two in the morning.

Horus: Certainly came from within. I could tell that immediately. I think you spoke very aptly. And I sense that you didn’t have much difficulty writing that either. I imagine that kind of, …

Ayatollah: As I said, at the time to a couple of people I was talking to at the time. For a moment, you know, not a moment, but for a very short time, I felt a little bit better for having done it. You know, there was a small element of catharsis. But even now, you sort of have that thing where it all hits you! Sure he’s not here anymore. And it sort of comes back at you. You’ll be thinking about other things and it comes back at you. And you sort of think, you know, I still can’t quite believe it! It’s just so, it’s so sudden!

And just the idea that he’s gone is, it’s horrific.

But the other thing, the point, I made in there is, … And I’m sure this has been asked out over and over, because it will be true the vast majority of us particularly. Because I don’t think Simon has been back here to the UK, post the process to really understand what we all understand, which I think the Simon’s case was shortly after myself. It was sort of the latter part of 2017.

And in Simon’s case it was very public. He was out there producing commentary and what-have-you at that time.

And there’s a particular value in people who make that step over in public view. Not just because they bring people with them. But it’s sort of instructive as well.

But again like pretty much everybody else, and we talked about this, I think, yesterday Horus, or possibly I think it was last night, having never got to meet him was just really sad, and really frustrating. Because he must be the most brilliant company. You think of the life he’d led. And I sort of tried to allude to it briefly in the thing we put out.

He just led such an interest in life with his involvement in music and all different sort of styles of music. I think is the band he was in Spain, in Catalonia, had sort of songs in the charts. He’d obviously done it’s professionally. He’s got his academic background with psychology.

Obviously he was adopted Catalan. But then there was a certain sensibility that never left him. It was sort of certain a certain grassroots, old Left, working-class sensibility which still manifested itself in his nationalists efforts.

I mean, we experienced this to agree really, [chuckling] because I was desperate to get him on The Absolute State of Britain. And we tried a couple of times. And in each case, once was just before Christmas, and once was just after.

It ultimately didn’t come through, because we’re having technical problems. And he didn’t suffer fools gladly. And I say that as a compliment. We announced for the [word unclear] for whatever reason. The technical problems. I’m not really sure. It just never really worked with the platform we were using.

But you knew where you stood with him. That goes a long way. I mean, I love going on the stream. You were on with us briefly as well, on New Year’s Eve. And then Nick was on with me.

And to be honest, that that night really was it was predominately just like myself and Nick talking. And Simon just really sort of sat back. And I said afterwards:

“I feel like I sort of hijacked that.”

He said:

“Well no, that’s what I wanted. I’ve got you both on, because I know you can talk.”

And that was obviously really flattering. Because in the year and a half before think, post sort of understanding the obvious question, he’d done more for me in terms of deepening and understanding have and the background to it, than anybody, with the stuff on the Protocols and various other things.

Which is a big undertakings, as I say. And it involved doing a lot of research. Somebody like me, too bloody lazy to do.

But it was also just done in an interesting way. Because he just got that sort of bearing, with the life he led. He was just one of those people who’s got like a good radio broadcaster’s voice. And just delivery, and doing things. He would have been such fantastic company, because I’m sure the stories he could tell, the anecdotes, and things he could talk to you about, and the experiences his own life.

It was just, it’s sort of cruel for us all, really. None of us ever really got to enjoy that.

Horus: I imagined going to [word unclear] I think the several people have said this.

Ayatollah: Yeah.

Horus: Shazia, you and Simon’s sort of progression like, intellectually, ideologically, and so on, was linked, wasn’t it, at several different stages. Did you say?

Shazia: You know what I really like to [words unclear]. And he moved on, … [words unclear] Simon was. And he just appeared on Gab one day. I hadn’t seen him on Gab. And he appeared on my gab timeline. And I forwarded him. And I commented under what he posted:

“How had he been doing.”

And he just picked up from there. And that’s really a sign of true kinship. He it didn’t have any ill feeling towards me for not getting to [word unclear] at the same time, if that makes sense? He just welcomed me.

Horus: Yeah. He seems to have done that for so many people. And it’s funny what you said Ayatollah, about he didn’t suffer fools gladly. And I was gonna say, as a sort of self-flattery to us all. That’s why he was surrounded by such high quality people! [chuckling] He got rid of all the fools! [chuckling]

Nick: Occasionally laid into one, or two, people that really deserved it! Occasionally!

Ayatollah: Even then, he did so with real equanimity, right up until, right until the last weeks of his life. You know, did it in a very measured way, that you just couldn’t argue with him on anything!

Nick: Gentlemanly.

Ayatollah: Oh. Yeah, absolutely! Yeah. But in the Right way. Not in a sort of affete, pretentious, way. Just honest and decent! You would have known where you stood with him.

And that was a lovely, on Vile on Sunday, Nick, that was a lovely little thing you included at the end, that just summed him up nicely.

I love that photograph, as well. I’ve seen that photograph around. In fact, it was something Simon posted a few weeks ago on Twitter, and somebody retweeted it. Where he’s there, and he’s probably in his post punk days, with his red Stratocaster! You know, I love that!

Horus: We did put this up earlier. My technical skills were absolutely novice! But I did put a picture up earlier at the start of the stream. If you watch it back later. I can see Calamity in the chat, has only just joined us. But Calamity if you want to see the picture we’re talking about, you’ll see it in the stream.

Ayatollah: I know Dionne did a bit of a stream this morning while his funeral was taking place. I missed that, as well, unfortunately. But I hope his family understand how much we valued him all. And how keenly we feel his lost. I mean, yourself Shazia, and yourself Horus, particularly, you obviously would have been even closer than most of us.

I never talked to Simon that much. But I listened back a lot to a bit of the stream I was on with him with Native, also of TASOB. We were a couple of the number of people that were on this Christmas Eve stream. It’s just delighted to be asked. It’s one of those things, … I’ve not been doing this sort of thing that long, it’s like less than a year. And I’m just one bloke on a single podcast.

But when you get to that stage where people you’ve been listening to and learning an awful lot from them and really enjoyed listening to for quite a while, it’s just sort of, they treat you as just one of the people within the general effort, and the general cause. It’s quite a flattering thing. And that was a good example of it.

But with the New Year’s Eve stream I was listening to that. And again, I was really sad listening to that. I think it was on probably on Saturday, or Sunday, listening to Simon talking about the Christmas’s he had, and how he’d been doing all the cooking. And it gave him licence to sort of edge to Overton Window along for people.

And I just thought that Christmas at Simon’s, something like that, just must have been brilliant! I mean, we would have met him at the Patriotic Alternative conference obviously. Well, we were all there weren’t we, in March. And it’s such a shame he couldn’t have made that.

Horus: He took dinnertime as an opportunity to drop, … Him being the cook, he took the opportunity to drop red pill bombs!

Ayatollah: Yes.

Horus: Speaking of TASOB, the first ever episode of TASOB I ever listened to was with our next guest. Which is Morgoth! Who I will introduce now. Hello Morgoth! How are you doing?

[131:45]

Morgoth

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Morgoth: Hello everybody.

Horus: Hello mate.

Nick: Howdy!

Horus: Welcome onto the tribute stream. And yeah, what was your first encounter with Simon?

Morgoth: Well it wasn’t until quite recently, because somebody’s, a fellow has been turning all of my old blog posts into an e-book, which is in different parts. And then Simon got in touch about a month or two back, saying that:

“Would I like to have all of my old blog posts in an actual book which I could put on a shelf?”

And I just seemed like the most amazing thing ever! But I get swamped with stuff. And I was like, yeah. So we were going to do that. And he even sent me a kind of graphic thing that showed me what it would look like. Having a solid hardback book of all me old edgy blog posts. And I might still get that done, just as a little thing.

But a thoroughly decent bloke. So sad that it has happened And I think just looking at the movement over the last year and a half or so, I remember when it was much angrier and more prone to spergery. And over the last year and a half it became normalized. Which is, of course, what we always wanted. It’s always about waking the normies up.

And for me I was happy about this normalization process, because you are getting more normal people coming in. And for me, Simon Harris was the face of that. Because here you actually see his face and he’s chatting away. Here you had a bloke you’d like to have a pint with, as part of the movement. And, instead of just always the most hardcore takes.

And I really like that. Because then you can get the information you can get the idea out there. And I think once you begin that normalization process it becomes much more difficult to stop.

And so Simon was, for me, the face of that happening. And I really like that. I liked him, as well. I only spoke to him actually on a live stream, a couple of weeks back with [word unclear] and Keith.

Horus: Yeah. He’s just a sound guy, through and through. And he had the effect of normalizing things, because he was just very normal, I think! [chuckling] I mean, disarmingly so, for our enemies, I’m sure!

Nick: I want to add on. I’m sorry, what you said Morgoth there. When I listen to the Protocols thing, it felt okay to be doing that, because it was Simon.

Morgoth: Yes, that’s what you want. You want the bloke that you can sit in the pub with, and he says:

“Have you ever read this? What do you make of that?”

Because that really gets through to people. And instead of framing it as:

“Shock, horror! You’re gonna be blown away by this! And I’m so edgy, and I’m so hard core!”

And it gets much easier when you’ve got people like Simon in the scene, I think. And we’ve heard it all night here.

[135:23]

Horus: Now that you say that, as well, I realize how much he liked to put questions other people, as well. Because that is generally the way to have a good conversation isn’t it? To encourage them to say what they are thinking. And he did that a lot, and I didn’t even [word unclear] until now.

Shazia: I like what you said Morgoth your blog and an actual book [words unclear].

Morgoth: Yeah. I wasn’t even aware that he did that. I didn’t know anybody could do that, because I’m still amazed that my old blog is still up there. And here I am these days later and you’ve got this fellow saying:

“Would you like to put them all into a hardback?”

Yeah! That would be amazing! I’m kind of determined to do it now. And just as a little thing for Simon

Horus: Is it Morgoth at the Movies? Is an e-book as well, isn’t it?

Morgoth: Yeah. I think that’s four all around. We just did My Greatest Hits, which the editor, George on Twitter, put together. There’s a book where it’s all my reviews of the movies and stuff. And then it’s all new stuff. But yeah, it’s Simon’s, … I don’t want to babble about my books.

Horus: No, no. But he was a lover of books. I’m sure he would appreciate that. He obviously appreciated, he obviously was an admirer of your work, as well, I think. I don’t want to relate everything to the movement. But it is like having the floor taking out from under us in some ways. Oh, that’s a pretty disparaging way of putting it, “the floor”. But he was a mainstay! He was a continuing sort of influence, he was a steady kind of person.

Ayatollah: That’s the thing. I mean, in that respect, yeah, he was, for the reasons everyone talked about. I mean, Nick made a great point there as well, just about normalizing things which in their substance are controversial. Because the person, and Morgoth said the same sort of thing, because the person delivering the information actually seems like a decent, likable, well-adjusted bloke to put it mildly in Simon’s case. He was pretty exception in one of the things he [word unclear] in his life. It makes it more accessible. And in that respect he was exactly the sort of person you want in this thing.

And another point I would make. And I’m sure this has been made already. Because I think, I’m not sure if it was Dan, as in The Iconoclast video, or whether it was Keith. But one of the video tributes that came out on Saturday that I listened to, somebody made the point that, … I mean, Simon wasn’t in this thing that long. It’s two and a half years. I mean, he’s obviously doing things before based on, you know, demographic changes he’d seen in Catalonia. And I think on visits back to the UK as well. But he’d only been in this thing two and a half years.

Now when he sort of had the change in views he did, he would have been 57. Now, you get these studies don’t you showing how very few people will radically change their views, in foundational terms past a certain age. It just sort of doesn’t happen. And I’m sure the points been made already. But it’s testament to him that he did that. Because a lot of people like they just sort of shut it out, I suppose at that time in their lives. That might sound condescending. But I don’t mean it in that way at all.

There aren’t necessarily many people that would just radically reassess everything. I mean, to actually do that at all is credit enough. But then to actually turn that sort of change in understanding to producing the sort of material and importantly the sort of research he did. Yeah, it just made him valuable in a way that was sort of unique.

Because as we’ve all said that the work he was doing, it wasn’t like say something like we do, which is just basically an audio version of what people have to say on Twitter about things, or whatever.

It’s not that high effort. You read a couple of articles. You maybe make some notes, you go on, you talk about it for a couple of hours. You stick it out. It’s like actually researching things and doing research other people haven’t necessarily done.

[140:01]

Horus: Just before I introduce our next guest, I’m just gonna read one more of these quotes from Simon, that Vigilante Jesus is putting up. And one was:

“If history teaches us anything, great civilizations fall when the people become decadent and self-indulgent, and I no longer prepared to fight for their own survival.”

That’s not directly relevant to what we were just saying. But I think there’s another good quote from him. Ayatollah, if you don’t mind, I’ll have to kick you off just to make space.

Ayatollah: Yes certainly. Was just about to say in the little stream chat. Yeah, just boot me whenever you are ready. But I’ll stay on as long as you want.

Morgoth: Keep Ayatollah on, and you can get rid of me.

Horus: All right. Well, I’ll say provisional good bye to you both. And thank you both very, very much for coming on.

Morgoth: I’ll just like to say, rest in peace Simon. Great bloke! Tragic to see you go.

Ayatollah: Yeah. Rest easy mate! See you in Valhalla.

Horus: All right. Thank you guys.

And welcome Jack Hwite. And how you doing mate?

Jack Hwite

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Jack Hwite: I’ve been doing all right, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate being invited. There are probably a lot of people that deserve to be invited much more than me. I’m not very good at this thing, so if I choke up or something it’s not because I’m sentimental or anything, it’s just kind of nervous. It’s not actually a tear, it’s just something in my eye! But yeah, thanks for having me on, I really appreciate it. I don’t know why this has hit so many of us so hard, ..

Horus: But yeah, well the reason I mean, we had to select people. I mean, there’s dozens and dozens of people that could come on, but I remember you were on the, … Was it the Christmas Eve stream?

Jack Hwite: Yeah, actually on the Christmas one. I think I spoke to all three you guys on the Christmas stream.

Nick: I remember it.

Jack Hwite: Unwashed, Shazia, and I think Jacktion… That guy as well.

Horus: Jacktion will be on again. I believe YouKipper was on that stream as well, and he’ll be on shortly as well. And yeah, it was a merry night I remember, I was drinking rum. [chuckling] I went on another stream straight after and I was fairly, eh…

Jack Hwite: Yeah, I always have to have a couple of beers before I do this stuff, because I’m not really a streamer. Like… This stuff sort of makes me nervous, to be honest..

Horus: You are a singer right?

Jack Hwite: Yeah, so is Unwashed! [chuckling]

Nick: I’m more nervous about that one though! I really want to point people towards the collab you did with ForNull that you have done. Because it’s such an anthem! I want to make sure as many people hear that as the Hiraeth and Xurious one, from the mixed tape.

Jack Hwite: Yeah, he [ForNull] sort of turned me into a god with that remix he did. He’s done a lot of really great stuff, like a lot of our artists. Hopefully he does more, he’s a real workhorse, as well.

Horus: I don’t know if you saw our show last week, Nick was on with Jeff Winston, I assume, you know, him, you must know?

Jack Hwite: Of course. Yeah, he’s like my boss! [chuckling] He’s a good friend of mine, a good colleague. I thought that show was amazing and um, it’s kind of eh… I think Simon did as well. You know, you guys have done really great shows this year. And you know, the Ryan Faulk one comes to mind. I thought that was amazing, because I thought that guy was gone, but, you know, lo and behold he turns up with you and Simon.

Horus: Simon said that apparently that was just because they’d been friends on Facebook from some years before and he just got back in touch, he just messaged Ryan out of the blue. And Ryan was like:

“Yep! Yep, sure.”

So I don’t know if that was because Ryan knew of our show, or he just fancied going on something, or anything, I’m not sure. But when he did come one, he was an absolute blast! I mean..

Jack Hwite: Yeah, he used to create really good content, but he sort of like disappeared. I think I’m, pretty sure, I’m friends with him on Facebook as well. He’s sort of like..

Horus: He’s got a different channel. He does Knights Move, as in the chess move.

[145:02]

Jack Hwite: Right no, I don’t know about that. But I loved that stream. I thought that was amazing. I thought like, holy hell, like this guy’s back!

And you guys did the one with like Nick [Griffin], big respect for that. I don’t think anybody really wanted to touch that. But, you know, it’s a testament to Simon’s sort of, and yours, sort of journalistic impulse.

Horus: [chuckling] I’ll give all the credits that for Simon. I had no input! I mean, I made the occasional suggestions. And if I made them he was up for what I suggested. But he pretty much, always, as soon as one show was done he had an idea what we wanted to do for the next one [Jack chuckling]. Yeah, I mean, he really had his finger on the pulse, as Nick [Unwashed] said a minute ago. Especially the last few months, he was, whatever was causing any sort of disturbance, or intrigue, or curiosity in the general movement, he would go there and say:

“Well let’s talk to that person, or go over that thing.”

Jack Hwite: Yeah! The one you did with like [Jeff]… I’m obviously biased, because I’m associated with the White Art Collective, the WacPack, you know, that interview was just so amazing, you know… And he felt the same way as well. Because, I sort of… He was in our White Art Collective group on Facebook and he was posting there. He actually, you know, before the show, he was asking people in the group what should we talk about, he was looking for input, he was like totally open to that kind of thing.

And then when he posted the link I sort of pinned it. And it’s very, this is gut wrenching, it was probably like his last post, or one of his last posts on Facebook. I think after the interview – I guess like he’s an early bird, he goes to bed early, right? So, you know, he commented on that post that I pinned in the group. And he said:

“I hope you guys liked that.”

And he said he just felt really optimistic about the future, you know, he said:

“I feel really optimistic about the future.”

And, two days later, ..

Horus: This was last Tuesday was it?

Jack Hwite: This was Tuesday night, I believe, he made that comment. Just after the show, I guess before he went to bed. He said how optimistic he felt about the community. And we wanted to work with him. He was a musician, it made total sense that he would work more with that side of things. And it would have been awesome.

I saw a Darkest Sky in the chat, I know they worked together on some stuff, like music kind of stuff. I didn’t know that until this week, he put out musical collaborations he did with Simon and whatnot. I recommend people check those out.

But it would have been awesome to… You know, we were sort of making plans and like I said, I didn’t know him that well, and what’s really become clear here is you guys obviously were like close to him, and I’m really sorry for that. I sort of feel like I was becoming friends with him and people were making plans. And everybody had this sort of fantasy that they would just like meet him, and go to the pub and he’d talk about his cooking, like we did on that chat [at Christmas]. Tell you about his days in punk and stuff. We really hoped to work with him a lot more, and maybe get him back into music and stuff, … Yes it’s really sad.

Horus: Well, being a man of absolutely no musical skill myself, [Jack chuckling] the one thing I can do to contribute to what I think he intended with his link-up with you and White Art Collective, and so on, is just to say to everyone watching, check out their work! Because I’m someone who’s only fairly dimly aware… I’ve heard a couple of your songs Jack. I know Xurious, I know about a couple of Hiraeth’s, [150:01] dunno if I’m saying that right, her songs and little else.

I’d just say, there shouldn’t even be such a thing as the political side and the cultural side. But there is to some extend. The more we can do to mutually just engage with and support each other the better, and the more we’ll get out of each other, and more will spread it to new people as well.

Jack Hwite: So another thing about Simon, like yeah I mean, I knew about Simon like maybe a couple of years ago and stuff. I think I first came across him like… I was looking for answers and I was going through the Red Ice interviews, archives. I think that’s where I first saw him being interviewed. I think it was Red Ice.

And he was on his own journey and I was on mine. But sort of in the last year, or so, I started paying a lot more attention to him. With obviously the Tommy Wars. I thought that was wonderful! He was one of the main renegades, along with yourself, Shazia.

Actually, the reason I think I came to his attention was really through Dionne. I met her at the first PA conference, along with… I know Nick did as well, though I didn’t actually meet Nick there personally. But I know he was there, and, ..

Horus: I was there as well. I didn’t meet you Jack.

Jack Hwite: Were you at the first one?

Horus: Sorry! No. I was at the second one. No, … My awakening of a certain kind was a little too late. I should just, at this point, just begin to introduce our next guest as well. Who is YouKipper. But Jack if, ..

Jack Hwite: Can I say a few words. And then like bail?

Horus: Yeah, of course! And you’re welcome to stay on until we get too full, and I’ve got to bring on another guest. But yeah, whatever you’d like to say to finish off.

Jack Hwite: Yeah, I just like to end it on a, … You know, this is a really big loss! A lot of people had sort of plans… It’s a big loss for the community. A community that’s really sort of come to life, and that Simon really helped to build and contributed so much to. And he had so much more to give. And I think we feel sort of robbed a little bit by that.

But on a positive note I would just say that in a relatively short period of time he accomplished so much, more than many people will probably accomplish in a lifetime.

And he went all the way! The truth was his compass and he red-pilled himself, and then he red-pilled many others. And the blossoming sort of community that we have now is sort of largely thanks to Simon, and others like him.

So I just say like say:

“Cheers Simon! And hail!”

Horus: He’ll he really did play a big role in just carrying things forward, there’s no doubt about it. So, well said mate! And thanks a lot for coming on. And you’re welcome to stay on until we need to make space.

Jack Hwite: I’m gonna leave, but thank you guys so much for having me on. Really appreciate it.

Horus: Thanks a lot Jack! Cheers mate!

And welcome YouKipper. How are you doing mate?

YouKipper

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YouKipper: I’m not doing too bad and I just thought the same but the streams being fantastic and you really have done Simon proud so well done that everyone who was being on so far it’s been really good with them.

Horus: I’ll say a big world on such as your and Nick for that you.

Nick: Had the range man.

Horus: I’m delighted there was enjoy in it. But yeah, you kept but you were on the stream on Christmas Eve was it yeah Christmas Eve.

YouKipper: Yeah yeah, it was Christmas even I have to say was I was surprised, because just out of the blue I’ve got a message from Simon saying he was just a bunch of people out on for Christmas tour getting it was solving in contrast with Millennial he was having this, or big sort of almost like the parties kind of stream I guess but these to be like that back in the day when things were a lot less organized so I sort of enjoyed the chaos that you saw brought back with it. But yeah in terms of my first interaction with Simon I’m a pear was quite a while back on Gab I thought we use anymore I should be honest were our [155:02] own Gavin was funny, because I at that time I was still quite a big proponent of UKIP and Gerald bans regime, so to speak, in they dropped a pretty decent London Vestal if I say so myself and I remember Simon for our video where as I usually would he methodically sort of dissect of a piece by piece, you know, as he would with all these other verticals if it could go on for god knows how long yeah I remember he died second bit and I was like there please actually come at it from a nationalist perspective and given the sort of the jew deserves the they it deserved it was a pretty piece of manifesto. So I’m um I think and thinking myself he was pretty switched on, because he was sort of going against the green at that times I know I was when I was. So I’m sort of surprised to have an ally in Simon, so to speak, hey.

Horus: Yeah I mean, I still have some sort of fondness for cherub but nothing that I think that he is someone who is, or ideas are somewhat muddled but.

YouKipper: Very muddled.

Horus: Sighs in yeah and he still does the thing of using fascist as an insult to describe other name, you know, leftists oh well it’s kind of daft but.

YouKipper: See this is the essentially the term fascist it does have a modern-day connotation doesn’t it would be an honest fascism is sort of taken on that turn but in the sense the jew-rod button is right we’re wrong by being these sort of autistic dictionary actually take it seriously I mean, if it being sort of honest about it maybe those people who use fascism in that sense all right in so in this content for every sense it’s your will.

Horus: Yeah and even if we disagree with him we’ve got to meet them somewhere so even if we’re just trying to guide them somewhere else, you know, speaking of Gab Shazia as well I don’t know whether she has a secret Twitter account but she she’s a gap a gap aficionado.

Shazia: Who’s no writer coming back on as my field, you know, it’s really there’s something Jungian about able to close forever I want anything and being able to compliment form and take out enough not things of been good no.

Horus: I couldn’t agree more, because I don’t use it a hardly at all at the moment, because I’m getting a lot of that on Twitter. But I still know that at some point someone perhaps someone of middle-eastern ancestry is going to get me banned from Twitter and, you know, that is gonna happen at some point, because I’ll just piss off the wrong person I know I want to start naming names. But I can think of the kind of people who go after me so and the Gab is there for us, you know, it’s a back channel if nothing else to you it’s your front channel which as your isn’t it but, you know what Simon active on cap buy-in in the past then.

YouKipper: He definitely was buckler and as far as I can tell I know that’s where I first interacted with him anyway.

Shazia: [words unclear]

Horus: It’s kind of like our home base and we go out on raids into Twitter I’m just not a particularly long and bloody one I think just.

YouKipper: Yes actually Missy the way Is the gap sort of there’s something to fall back on oh isn’t it like if for some reason Michael on Twitter cause I could just sort of retreat back big gap in a sense yeah.

Horus: Well we’re doing an extended commando right behind enemy lines but at some point I’m gonna get strung up and then, you know. But yeah, that Christmas stream was happy chaos wasn’t it was I love that kind of here when he’s thought about what mark says you’re gonna do tomorrow night like an open house ping anyone can just, you know, say hi I’m backstage, you know, and jump on and like I love that especially when you better you got a drink in hand and there’s a what, you know, holiday atmosphere and stuff and I mean, it’s a sad time that it’s happening now but on the other end I know you saw a man would whoa I can’t speak for him boy oh I imagine he would be very pleased to see us having a laugh, you know, we’re thinking of him and wherever the laugh a same song I think it’s in the spirit of what he did

YouKipper: and I couldn’t remember a time when any time I logged on the YouTube Simon’s videos would without fail be in the recommended if you have that like all the time, or expiry would always be there.

Horus: Yeah very often not as often as Jordan Peterson and CNN. But yeah, I mean, that’s someone that’s not fiddling, but yes, Simon’s was there, because of quality it was this absolutely true. I’m gonna start to introduce our next guest Chris but you keep her if there’s anything else you want to say and you’re welcome to style until we, you know, it’s we’ll need the space but, you know,

YouKipper: That’s it. But I would just like to say rest in peace — Simon I think I speak for everyone when I say that it’s just kind of just left me to be to us and just sort of scratching my head and wondering, you know, if things sort of great other politics and the things that are generally go on in our sphere and all the pettiness and all that all that arguing all the infighting and all, you know, and I’m Simon would be the kind of person who would want to put that all the bed so I suppose I could see anything it would be but put all the daft in fine neuroscientists see if anything in there yeah good night and God bless.

Horus: Cheers my and yeah if thinking of him helps us turn our attention towards not just victory but whatever lies above, or beyond us, or it’ll still be doing as a service even in even in death so yeah well said my earth I couldn’t agree more and we miss him but we thank him, you know, Chris welcome mate how you doing?

Chris (Patriotic Talk)

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Chris (Patriotic Talk): Hello mate yeah heavy okay.

Horus: Yeah he’s fine yeah.

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Well I just before we move on to Simon Harris god bless his top soul I would like to thank her the previous guest is been a magnificent show the audience been brilliant as always and especially free, because I’m gonna show last night my tribute show the pursuit Patriotic Talk shown he was very tough to do that since iguana schlong guys I applaud you all so I would like the audience to put a 14 in the chat for Horus Unwashed and Shelia.

Horus: It’s actually not been a least there’s so many people who wanna speak it’s not been any struggle it’s always just so many good people I so we have to select people as well I mean, we could have had Gardens more.

Chris (Patriotic Talk): I know it’s tough it’s good to see the forties in the chat to you guys. But if song I was on his deathbed right now I’m sure he would want us all to remain positive as much as it hurts our heart it was its been such a tough few days we have to remain positive we have to keep going for this guy just what a brilliant man I’m not like I wasn’t as close to him as I was we as you guys was with him, of course. But I got that sense if he was if he remained a lot longer than we would think I’m very close we had such a gun bonding that the two months we got to know each other he was our guest last week on the Patriotic Talk show he won the quays as well so I mean, it’s not hard against my advice and Charlie, of course, but he still he still won the quiz he smashed the Cui’s I mean, the bouncer here Ybor to that show last week was fantastic, because obviously, you know, our show we bring a pub stall atmosphere we do have our serious topics, of course, but we got two other laughs and he just feed him so well and I really miss him and again guys credit to you guys, because you missed a lot closer to him and then I was and I really struggled yesterday so much quickly to you guys for putting on tonight’s show.

Horus: Hey you Simon was one that was I think the last kiss that you’ve had on Patriotic Talk show and I was I think the first is that right.

Chris (Patriotic Talk): She was a first.

Horus: Yeah and I was then I beat Charlie in the quiz.

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Yeah but everybody beats Charlie for yeah, it was brilliant I’m just absolutely devastated like during the quiz he was going on my rants about the Protocols I’m not gonna say too much I don’t like that you should go he logs a little bit more freedom but he’s good on the ROI Transbay I have actually I mean, that meat doesn’t download in last week stream. So I’m gonna be putting that. But then, if you want to use it Horus, or any advice if you want to watch three but I’m in the middle of downtown and it right now as we speak he’s only sure.

Horus: I meant to suggest I’d never go rancid I meant to say to you we could.

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Broadcast this one live on the — live as well as I stuff this one to the laptop so it’s been, or caste there was 50 people watching paying a visit bet server yeah it’s been good it’s big I know it’s such a shame like I don’t all three of you actually took part we’ve done the community of nationalism videos I’m sure you guys remember song Harris two-part it will be played on PWR tomorrow. But one of the last lines he said was I’ve got a few years left in me anyway and I wore a noble die with my boots on which it kind of caught me to hear those words he only said those words like Oh two weeks ago three weeks ago so that was kind of deep, or as I said, we’ve got to keep pushing [165:02] on the message, because I’m sure that’s what he wanted one of us to do it.

Horus: Nice amazing me said that means he assumed the same that I did then, because I just thought there’s no way he’s going anywhere well I never thought that even that never occurred to me, you know,

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Yes it’s a Christ experience, because obviously on Monday using such holy spirit such a laughing matter I think he, you know, I’ve had my quiz he’s very serious and he was ranting and raving about his Protocols and come on Simon get your head in the game we have to focus on the quiz and he went on the moan and then he’s like hey you could interrupt the quiz all you want an icon and obviously all in good fun sir but he bought us it was such a fantastic show last week alone and then just about two days I say was in our chat we was gonna do the karaoke which he was go to starring unfortunately that didn’t take place that’s a story for another day. But yeah, and he just came to Chancellor Phil I go by truck today and that was the last we heard of him oh absolutely devastated but we have to remain positive guys we but the best thing of you ease the nationís community the togetherness was bought I mean, from the last time a chassis was 3118 apparent we raise for Simon’s family which was fantastic keep donating guys it would mean a lot and, of course, on Thursday night over on Gaylord pagelet seesaw with hosting a quiz the Patriotic Alternative versus the top guys so I’ve been marking more reverses Ayatollahh euro and nice of his inner Cui’s we all try and make some fun of its not gonna be all sad and try and raise more money for that family.

Horus: That’s great let me know this I listen to your tribute show last night and that was a very nice no it looks like it’s a week of my remembrance and appreciation and it.

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Sure that’s a given us loose movement any obscene everyone Paul together finished man really makes me feel proud and unfortunately we have lost him and I’m sure that he’s looking over us right now is sMarting that we are going to take this a step further now and we’re going to do everything in his name and his family’s name and everyone involved even if you’ve not been on the show it’s all you should be proud of yourselves.

Horus: Thinks I’d see anything you want to say shows your Nick.

Shazia: It just I like what you’re generally thank you for Kristen for us tonight, because it has been heard of them on in Boston a good idea. So yeah, I’m looking forward to.

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Yeah I mean, I do remember no comment on the show last week obviously he’s wiping ways to see the Sun and one of the fuzziness it the pressure was on cookie I was just the moment she left are just open teens of food probably probably put in the microwave and what learn yeah proper man problem man and I just well what a legend but I’m just so I am devastated gots known focus I do believe he’s that con is such a fantastic family man and I think everyone would just look up to him as the father they never had a sort of thing just war bloke I can’t just it’s only after a few months I can’t be specimen orphans going they did make it to the conference but what a fantastic speech he also gave.

Horus: Well said main yeah I mean, the speech we mentioned earlier but he couldn’t hear us but it was as though he could, you know, be interested he had a natural way of speaking very, very natural and there’s some sort of it was it Nick there was someone said oh the other, you know, you would have been good on the radio why did do radio shows embossed owner I believe, you know,

Chris (Patriotic Talk): The Yanks me she’s been fantastic I don’t know obviously Dionne bless her sold and a great little tribute this morning the candle lit a little prairie and I actually do live that stream myself I started off with us on Harry song played her YouTube video then ended with another song and Harry song and also his music he’s brilliant wasn’t it so he wrote some of these songs so you had a good taste in music so much credit to him just go eat that we’ve lost him so vile a but we have to keep positive guys everything that we do now from now on has to be done in the name of him and we just got to get ourselves off and go again that’s the best we can do.

Horus: I think so too mate I’m going to introduce our next guest who’s Jackson. But if there’s any last thing you want to say then.

Chris (Patriotic Talk): No I just my condolences to the Harris family and whatever the other [170:00] names are I really hope you can get over these some pick ourselves up he will be looking down on you and protecting your family and, of course, the nationalist movement again thank you to Horus on Washington’s idea for putting on an excellent stream so proud of you guys, because I know how hard this would have been for you guys so again guys thank you rest in peace Simon Harris and much love to you all.

Horus: Having so many people want to come on and say touching and lovely things makes it a lot easier cheers Chris.

Chris (Patriotic Talk): Thank you guys. Enjoy the rest of your night and on all will listen to the rest may resonate peace out.

Horus: Speak to you soon speeches thing and church and welcome mate how you doing tonight?

Jacktion

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Jacktion: Evening mate and yeah first of all just want to say my condolences to you I know you too were quite close were together a lot, you know, I must be fuckin horrible.

Horus: I love the guy he was brilliant to a private I haven’t really accepted it yet but, you know, I’ll swallow it bit by bit name for that I mean, got the same. So I’m others others, you know, I think everyone’s yeah a lot of people hurtin is well I mean, uh in a funny way I mean, mark marks it’s mean are common for but not I mean, I didn’t even have that either I never added him on Facebook this is a much that’s I can put Romney didn’t have his phone number it’s a find that from other people so he we really had a meeting of minds I think that’s what it was for meaning but suddenly realizing that he’s gone but it does hit me emotionally unless, you know, it’s horrible but we did a great show when you came on and that, of course, was when the fire was just beginning to become an amazing talked about out and weeks about as spiritual as well.

Jacktion: Yeah it was we spoke quite a bit about the virus funnily enough and he was actually the first guest when I started streaming I said why would anyone be up for coming on and we’d sort of thought of each other on Twitter for a bit bad and really interacted so he said to me yeah but I’d be happy to come on. What do you want to talk about my sort would I got fucking close I don’t really have a structure for it and what I remember that really fondly was I was talking to him and then I happened to ask him what the fuck was the Catalonian independence thing about and he was just so knowledgeable and then the whole sort was strained ended up with us just talking about Franco and primo de Rivera which, you know, it was always a bit of trouble getting him to say the whole name I remember booing that there was a laugh the yeah and I remember sitting there, the whole time and it was I really don’t want to sound condescending to him and it’s also have nothing but respect to the man but he was so sort of approachable to me he reminded me everyone’s got that’s a well, you know, that’s all older patriarchal figure in the family that you can soar Garland sit live and you’ll just learn things, you know, from their life experience, or what have you and I’m yeah the whole time just talking about and I come away and it’s all like I just read a fucking book, you know, it was there.

Horus: I listen to my stream as well it was superb yeah and I yeah I seem to remember it’s awfully delved in C so you swerved into Spanish history and really hard and it illuminates oh it was clearly something he was keen to talk about, you know, I mean, well this is what he was working on when it when he thought it as well as his, you know,

Jacktion: Yeah I was going to ask about that as well I know he was translate and I think it was some of the works of the Rivera and he was translating them to English and I sort of had so many talents I just thought this isn’t something that’s lost with him I hope someone is able to sort carry on his good works there and especially with all the things he’s done with the movement in particular as well even though I don’t really consider myself to be a part of it oh you think so we’ll see how unifying he was, because even things you disagreed with him about even things where, you know, I know that we didn’t see eye to eye. And when he asked me about them it was never like you were on the spot it was a man that was genuinely, you know, I just wanted to learn more.

Horus: That’s right yeah they really I mean, it was like I mean, it was conversation with a cloud plus one it was less less less figure this well this brings some illumination to this yeah let’s this find out what these ideas were about yes so Valley bought this and it’s so enjoyable with this all I spending my [175:01] time I mean, I’ve spent so my life were of it, you know, friends who are really like your loads of ways I really enjoy their company but they’re not in some way intellectual stuff but Simon absolutely was I mean, 30 and that’s our we went from not knowing anything about each other’s doing a show together in the space of a few weeks and he just seemed completely natural development as well so it’s just this brilliant scenario that’s worth I suppose why I felt more shocked than sad the last few days and what it is that I, you know, I’ve lost him in the sense that he was with us and now he’s not in but in the same way sorry in another way at least we knew him, you know, at least we did know him and at least we had what we did have and that’s the bright side of it. I mean,

Jacktion: No one can argue that he’s left a legacy there this I mean, I’m not gonna lie I caught myself when I sort of comeback started looking at the political stuff of YouTube again I saw a lot of his interviews I was Nick Griffin and some of the other ones he channel okay that’s going to be something I’ll catch up with him and I think the very next day I looked on Twitter and I can remember the buyers name sorry but he broke in the nose and I was just shot and I was watching the Christmas string the other day and I’m not gonna lie Bobby fucking jokes I’ve seen him there with his father Christmas hat on it was another case of where, you know, some of the conversation some of the things he talked about it was I think we ended up somehow I think Charlie was on this one as well and I know one washe was and yeah, I think it ended up I learned something about a Norwegian, or Scandinavian whatever folks how about a man who comes and shits in your chimney if you’ve been all especially when you’ve had a few drinks as well it was a really enjoyable Christmas stream and, you know, yeah, it was a complete sort of contrast to Millennial and he really come well with what he set out to go there.

Horus: It was really good I was on that one as well, because I remember you and me went on Bruce history office we said some relations and many others were always we weren’t going through.

Jacktion: Yeah that’s another thing I know even when I watched them his criticisms of Brutus and that he seemed like took him apart but in such a way this are so fucking respectful and it was coming from a point of its um it’s a talent I would completely lack I will just as you probably heard was on their Springs start come in the mouth but, you know, goodness it was a so sort of level-headed about it and it’s something that was something we’ll definitely been aided in the future wherever the movement happens to go that’s a talent that um it’s gonna be sorely sorely missed. But, …

Nick: I say no one knew how to tackle the Brutus situation no one everyone was like one earth do you do about this and Simon pulled out this hat.

Jacktion: Fire fire and Rehab is what you various but they’re fuckin it’s not about them no it’s genuinely alright I think than know him like as well as you guys did but I’ve never, you know, had a bad word to say about it even long things we’ve disagreed about it’s always been by completely respectful and, you know, not I’ve been really know him well enough to consider him a friend. But I remember I think it was post dream one so I said like, you know, next time you’re back in Blighty death and let you let me know and I’ll definitely like to have a beer with you.

Horus: Yeah I thought through about matters of faith at all we did on a screen Emory yeah I’ve got a couple of DMs. Jerry asked me some questions and I really wish I died not try I wish I’d learn it a bit more but it was kind of the time where I was just crying winding down from YouTube and man uh I couldn’t really answer him but I’m hoping like sort of closer and towards the end I don’t know he was definitely interested we spoke to fair a bit like when we was on the streaming when there and I’d know he was definitely sympathetic to the five. So yeah, I’m hoping I’m definitely like them at the time that it definitely on some sort of path in that direction no doubt about that.

Jacktion: He was my Vande happens from there that’s up to God yeah I don’t know the man shot by another man’s man but I’m oh, you know, he [180:01] seems to have a full life I know he leaves behind a ball up and a wife as well I believe.

Horus: And having each of this that’s good all right well Jack I’m good Jack. So I’m just going to introduce the next guest.

Shazia: [words unclear]

Horus: Jason if there’s anything you want to say yeah and I just want to say.

Jacktion: I’m really glad to hear that oh um he’s doing really well I’ll tweet their first moments of that as well. Yeah no we have lost a really good bloke I’m genuinely gutted as I’m sure all of us are and yeah he’s gonna be my prayers so I encourage you to do the same.

Horus: Thanks for the injection cheers make no drop off as you wish but.

Jacktion: No I’m gonna drop off thank you very much for having me on you’ve done a really good trip you to the amount of I’m sure we definitely be happy with its all yeah that’s big respects what were you so that.

Horus: Cheers mate. Thanks a lot James.

Jacktion: Cheers mate have a good one.

Horus: Jason welcome. How you doing?

Jason Köhne (No White Guilt)

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Jason (NWG): I’m good and I just want to say to you all first right out of the gate a big thank you to everyone who has participated everyone who put this together this tribute to Simon it means a lot to me I know it’s gonna mean a lot to all of those of you who put it together and everyone who is watching and we’ll watch and replay so I a deep thank you to every single one of you and I condole with Simon’s family members I can deal with everyone who cared about him it’s been quite a shock it’s been tragic to learn about this sudden passing and I guess potentially as a consequence of something that could not have happened had we been in control of our destiny I know you all are going the distance tonight having a lot of people on and I’ve been loquacious already quite a bit on Simon on my own stream so I don’t want to take up too much time.

But I will just I won’t I do want to jump in and say that Mr George and I came across Simon some time back and we watched him we enjoyed his content we enjoyed his intelligence and his integrity his pursuit of the truth despite what might have been uncomfortable too many people do not demonstrate such integrity their characters are not as good and he pursued the truth he cared about his people and that we think is the highest acclaim the highest and most honorable thing that we can say about a man, or woman especially given our circumstances today he cared about his people and he moved toward the truth with that as a guiding principle and he was willing to admit where he was wrong and willing to look places that others were not necessarily willing to look he had a heart of gold the things he said that were the kind of things that we all just sort of uncured advice we all look for and that’s how it was delivered and that’s how it was received.

And that’s why not only him as a person but him too White well-being is such a big loss, because he was able to speak to so many in that avuncular way that is so rare a man that we all easily developed a liking for was amiable and uniformly anyone who spoke with him wanted to end up at a pub with him, or at his home we talked about that Mr George and I and Simon plenty of times [185:00] we had him over on tap numerous times and he was a fan of taffy watched tap and he would make comments to us the final shows about that we had with him we touched upon some very of personal issues that he hadn’t touched upon before and that we’ve been able to do with quite a few guests over a tap is a dig in some places where they haven’t revealed things revealed revealing some secrets revealing some raw areas in their lives and he dug right down into the story of his daughter and the separation this inability to build memories with her and that was one of the things that was so crushing for me when I learned about his sudden passing along with feeling like I was had abruptly had a friend snatched from me and along with thinking about him as a man as a person and having his life snatched from him so young still so young were the thoughts about the memories that he was trying to make with his daughter this starting this past November being reunited discovering that she had anti-White some anti-White sentiments, because she’s growing up in an anti-White world and he got right to work and in pure love and you could tell it was coming straight from the heart he said as much and he worked every minute I believe in that time from their reunion all the way up into his passing to build those memories that they never had the opportunity to build so many of our young go without fathers so they go without mothers today most I think without fathers and this young woman my heart goes out to her obviously and Simon’s wife as I said, I can duel with them I know that all of those moments each and every one that she made with her father that are going to be gems that she will keep with her for the rest of her life I was absolutely shattered when I heard the news we were actually doing the garage party show that we do on Friday nights and p.m. Eastern Standard Time where we play music we play skits it’s meant to be a fun time Chuck Martell garage party and somebody wrote in the chat Simon Harris has died and, of course, having been in the White positive sphere for my whole life I immediately thought okay this is somebody who has shown up just to make this god-awful claim and to ruin the fun that we’re trying to have here at the garage party and the if, of course, Simon isn’t dead, of course, he’s not dead and so I wrote back in the live chat on that show please DM me and then that person did and said again yes I’m afraid he’s passed and other a couple others during the show said that they had heard as well and Mr George and I were furiously in the background trying to contact people reaching out to see is this true did we really just lose this guy that we thought this is a great friend and as I say, in the final time that we had contact with him we after the show when we talked about during the show getting together at some point future perhaps at his home for one of his meals where he drops these truth bombs that have been available that he talked about and really looking forward to that and then the part that was really tough was.

If you excuse me when he after the show he was so proud of that daughter in America and I’m sure it’s the same way elsewhere I’m sure it’s same in the UK and the rest of Western world when a parent is really proud of their child but it’s but it happens more so when they’re babies when they’re children when they’re very young they pull out their wallet, you know, they open up their purse and they’re like let me show and, of course, this is the way it used to be with all of us Graham now that everybody has their phones with the pictures on them and so they’ll open up the phone and they’ll show everybody look at the pictures of my of my baby look at here look at the pictures of my baby and he sent us pictures after the show of his daughter that he had finally been able to be reunited with.

Anyhow he was watching one of the taps episode tap episode if you folks watching don’t know what it is its the after-party that Mr George and I do and it’s usually toward the end of the week like a Thursday, or Friday, or Saturday it takes place, in fact, this coming Saturday we’re going to have the official launch for Prometheus rising and I’m gonna reference this in one second the standalone version of Prometheus rising and Simon like the story he watched the tap episodes where we talked with Laura Leigh we talked about Lord of the Rings and in conjunction with Lord of the Rings Prometheus rising which some of the fans of Prometheus rising have said is the White man’s and the White woman’s Lord of the Rings it’s the White the person the White positive persons Lord of the Rings and he watched one of one of those episodes and he ended up after watching the launching the episode making a video and at the beginning of the video he referenced watching tap and Mr Georgia myself and Laura-leigh and then he talked about when he was young and reading The Hobbit and then reading Lord of the Rings as a child and he noted that there was a song, or poem I guess that was supposed to be a song in the book I think it was in The Hobbit and he it was I think he said he was eight, or nine and he, or no he said he was eight, or nine and he felt like he couldn’t read any further into the book until he knew exactly what that song sounded like even though, you know, it’s just the words on the page so he said he sat at the end of the bed and made up the tune and sang the song and then he could proceed with the rest of the story and so he in this video he said all of these years later as a grown man let’s just say at his prime he decided that he was going to sing that song on the video and I thought it was when the first time I heard it when he made that video available he brought, you know, made my eyes wet I was its a beautiful tune and it’s lovely lovely piece and before I mean, if you all have something to ask of me it’s its don’t need like two minutes long I will, rather than doing like a screen share if I could it if you all have anything to ask, or say to me I’ll listen to it but I’d like to yield whatever time I have left with you all to Simon himself and the singing of this tune that he made up, or that he the tune he made up but this words from I think the Hobbit.

Horus: Were you gonna play on from your computer.

Jason (NWG): I’ll just play it right now I’ll move the mic over to the speaker and it’s only it’s less than two minutes long it’s just time singing.

Horus: Sure.

Nick: Obviously be wonderful.

Jason (NWG): [recording of Simon]

“This is exactly the tune I made up when I was eight, or nine I’ve done I remember sitting on the bed and making up actually anyway here it goes it’s the King beneath the mountains as by JRR Tolkien it’s about three-quarters of the way through the hobbit it’s a lovely lovely lovely lyric and I hope you learned another the awkward to it. So here goes:

‘The king beneath the mountains the king of carven stone shall come into his own his crown shall be his harp shall be restrung his hall shall echo golden it’s the songs of your song the words shall wave on mountains on the grass beneath the Sun his wells shall flow and the rivers cold the stream shall run in gladness the lakes shall shine and burn all sorrow fail and sadness at the mountain Kings return.’”.

Horus: Oh Jason you often speak about fire spirit and that word comes to mind right now.

Nick: It does it does I’m sure the White Pat can do something with that now one needs to live on.

Horus: I must introduce her next gift arrives, or Aref in a moment. But if there’s any last thing you want to say Jackson go ahead.

Jason (NWG): Last thing I’ll say is again thank you all for doing this Simon is, if you look at the world the way we do and going free Simon is no more gone than the Sun when it sets at night I love you all love you Simon rest in peace and talk to you also bye-bye.

Horus: Love you so you wait thank you very much. And hi riff, or awright if you wouldn’t mind beginning by telling me how to correctly pronounce your name and then tell us how you’re doing.

Hiraeth

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Hiraeth: Well technically, I mispronounce my own name. But I just say “hi-rith“, because it’s easier. [laughing]

Horus: All right, that sorted that out.

Hiraeth: Sorry to Welsh kin out there, that I say the word wrong. [laughing]

Horus: But what should it be? Should it be “he-rath”?

Hiraeth: I think it’s like “here-eye-eth”, or something yeah.

Nick: The great irony of this is no one knows! Everyone asks you how to pronounce your name. And then you spit it right back at us, going:

“It’s Welsh, you should know!” [Hiraeth chuckling]

Horus: I don’t imagine the Welsh saying “hi-rith”, …

Nick: It could be a rolled “r” in it, and all sorts of noises. [Hiraeth chuckling]

Horus: I’ve got a Welsh speaking friend I’m going to ask him, yeah, okay. “He-ray-eth”. So are you of Welsh ancestry?

Hiraeth: Um, I am not! Actually, I’m majority English. I have like maybe 2% Welsh, but majority English. [chuckling]

Horus: Okay.

Nick: It’s the meaning of the words, it’s got a particular resonance to us.

Hiraeth: Yes, it’s searching, you know, it’s a longing for a home that either it could be a home from the past, or something that hasn’t been created yet. It could be a home in the future,… but it’s just a “longing for home” basically. And nostalgia is a big part of it.

Horus: And did you meet Simon online? Or, I know you were always in often in the chat, listening to European Freedom.

Hiraeth: Yeah well I mean, I feel like I’m almost here as like a representation of a lot of folks in the live chat tonight, like a lot of the anonymous folks. Because I didn’t actually personally know Simon, like on a personal level. But we had interacted on Twitter some, publicly about music and stuff, and in live chats on YouTube. We were like Facebook friends and things like that.

But I never actually got to interact with him privately. But I feel like I am sure a lot of people feel this way, where you almost it’s kind of one-sided, because you almost feel like you do know them to an extent, because he was such an influential figure in the community. And there’s things that I just really loved about his work, and his streams, and his character, just all around. So.

Horus: Yeah, well said. I agree. And you are part of the White Art Collective as well, aren’t you?

Hiraeth: Yes. I am a singer/songwriter, member of the White Art Collective.

Horus: I mean, I first heard of you with your collaborations with Xurious, who’s sort the English side of the music makers. But yes, so I know you by your singing voice, first of all.

Hiraeth: Yeah. Xurious is awesome! [chuckling]

Horus: So did you enjoy hearing Simon’s voice, singing voice?

Hiraeth: Yes, actually, like I just learned about, or I just heard his videos. Well I enjoyed what Jason just played, just now. And I had heard that I think yesterday, and it’s very, very touching.

But I also there’s people like posting his some of his live things that he’s done. He did a I think two other videos that I’ve seen circulating of him just playing live. And he did one original song, and then he did a cover. And the cover he did has been stuck in my head since, gosh, like since Saturday, I think. And it’s that one that’s like it’s like:

“How long has this been going on!” [chuckling]

Horus: Isn’t that Mike and the Mechanics? Paul Carrack singing? Okay, alright maybe I heard a cover version.

[200:00]

Hiraeth: Could be. I’m not sure. I just definitely know that song. But I don’t really know the band. I think it’s by Ace, but I’m not sure. I’m sure it’s been covered by a bunch of people.

He did such a great cover of that, and I saw that video and there was like, I don’t know, 22 likes and there’s like two dislikes. And I remember getting pissed! I was like why?.. who would dislike this? This is a great cover of this!

Well that was something that I really liked about him, from just from what I picked up on, is that when he decided to do something, he just went for it! And he went for it full force, no matter like what it was. And I have a lot of respect for that, because when you play, just from a musical standpoint I’ve never even played in front of a live audience before, and I just feel like the thought of that is so terrifying, because I have a lot of stage fright.

And he just seems such a natural, very comfortable, and just at ease. And I think he seems like the type of person that would put others at ease as well. People seemed to connect with him on many different levels, which is really cool, so.

Horus: The picture of the night, I think by consensus, has been that one of him on stage with, … Iconoclast said it was a Stratocaster with a red strap. Yes, assuming the 80s I think. I don’t know whether he’s in England, or Barcelona.

But yeah, I mean, he did seem like a guy who was particularly like, as you say, he was at ease, he wasn’t, you know, I didn’t seem like the kind who’s embarrassed to perform.

Hiraeth: Right! Yeah he never like second-guessed himself at the time, or anything, where I feel like I would be like oh my gosh! like I don’t knowc I feel like I’d be freaking out! [laughing]

Horus: Absolutely. And he was beginning to really try and put forward like the White Art Collective, and their work, I don’t know if, … Well, of course, you heard our show last week.

Hiraeth: I did, yeah. I was in the live chat and it seemed like he was really getting on board with the fact that, like I think he had an understanding of how important culture is, or just art and music, as part of culture. And that side to this whole, to this fight that we’re in! That really plays a really important role. And I think he had a good understanding of that as a musician, and as a music lover, because he was very passionate about music.

And that tape, that mixtape he made for Unwashed, that Unwashed asked him to make for Vile, that was awesome! I listened to that it was great! I hadn’t heard of all those bands. But, I love Joy Division. And I know on Twitter he had said that he actually went to, he saw Joy Division in concert like two weeks before Ian Curtis actually killed himself, which is crazy! I was like, I’m so jealous that you got to see that. That’s awesome!

So he just seemed like a really good, all-around, good dude. A very cool dude, also, so yeah!

Horus: I don’t know about you Shazia and Nick, I’ve found out quite a lot about Simon tonight that I didn’t know a few hours ago. Hearing all these different perspectives on him has like been illuminating, apart from anything else.

I mean, some people have come to me in the last few days and said:

“I know how close you guys were.”

And this is true in the sense that I worked with him all the time. But as I said, to one of the guests earlier, that to some extent for me it was kind of a meeting of minds, like intellectual, political, stuff. I didn’t even know his phone number, or I don’t connect with him on Facebook, and all this stuff. But, I didn’t feel the need, because I took it for granted, I just assumed there was no need. And, how wrong I was.

I mean, not that it made any difference whether he lived or died. But I, .. I think he would say the same, I just felt an instant appreciation for the guy, an immediate sort of easy friendship! There was nothing to figure out. There was nothing to get past, it was, … the first time I spoke to him I just thought, so we’re mates now, you know! [chuckling] That’s a thing now, that’s great!

And yeah, I mean, he made it easy, and he was really, …

Shazia: [words unclear] he written sorry and have his number I don’t have Facebook I don’t need to have his plate — I just thought he was going to be here, you know, you take for granted. It’s exactly what you say I mean, I would in a room and you team over back always the same day so, because I had that connection left. And if I needed to meet him for something even if he was out he would email and say he’ll reply in detail when he gets back home. So I don’t ever feel the need to contact him on the telephone.

[205:00]

Horus: Yeah. A friend of mine, after I said on Friday that Simon had died, I said, to him, life is fragile, and the takes moments like to actually, … In my case to realize that, because there’s not been a lot of bereavement, or death, that I’ve experienced so far. But this a real loss.

I hope that at least the way we are responding to it, sort of plants seeds for the future that we might hopefully make something good come of it. And, yeah, so, …

Hiraeth: It seems like you’re doing a pretty good job of that already though, because like, well I loved it when Simon did these kinds of streams with a bunch of people like around New Year’s for instance. I loved that stream and I just thought it was so cool, because I remember thinking like:

“Gosh that’s got to be a lot like to switch all of these guests and stuff, in and out!”

There’s so much that goes on behind the scenes. I don’t think a lot of people really think about that and you have to be really focused to be able to be engaged in what people are saying, and still like, switching people in and out like crazy! And trying to keep the everything on time, you know?

Horus: That’s very true. I was nervous. I said to Nick and Shazia that I was nervous before, you know.

Hiraeth: Well, you’ve done awesome! I mean, I’ve listened to this stream you know, I couldn’t really talk in the chat before because I was at work earlier. But I’ve listened to the stream since it started, and it’s been amazing!

I mean, everything that everyone has said has just been so nice. You know, I didn’t personally know Simon, like I said, but I think anybody, I think he would have really appreciated this. And I think anybody would, you know. So, …

Horus: I really hope so. Yeah, I really, really, hope so!

I guess we’ll begin to draw this to a close, but Shazia, you know, if there’s anything you want to say before we come towards the end?

Shazia: I was really nervous before we came o. And I was really emotional. I feel myself crying. And every guest that you’ve had on have just shared so many beautiful memories. I’m really happy and I’m really glad it’s been really good. just, yeah, rest in peace Simon. Just one last thing if we are in this much, you know, shock and sadness, I can’t even begin to imagine what his family is going through.

Horus: With what Jason said, yeah I can only imagine how painful it must be for his daughter to have reconnected, and now to lose him completely. I hope, I mean, I don’t know at all, but I hope that she can draw some strength from the time that they did spend together.

Nick is there any last things you want to say?

Nick: Oh I’ve said an awful lot about Simon over the past few days! I’ve written words and all sorts. But this has been a lovely way to send off? I don’t know what the right word is! Yeah, still lost for words! Still haven’t really been able to sum it up.

I’m just very, very, honored to have known Simon since the end of last year. And yeah it can all be summed up in one word which is “gratitude”! It’s like I just have huge gratitude for everything that he gave me and everything that he gave all of us. What a wonderful dude!

Horus: Well said, mate.

Heraeth, … Hiraeth, is there any last things you want to say?

Hiraeth: I just would like to say thank you all for having me on. Thank you for doing this for three and a half hours. That’s a long time to be streaming for. And I know Simon did that really, really, well.

And like I said, I enjoyed those very much. I like that he was willing to give smaller voices the time of day. It wasn’t really like a popularity contest with him, he just, when he saw something that he thought was, or somebody that he thought was talented, he would boost them up. And I think that’s just really cool!

So rest in peace, Simon.

Horus: He really did like to boost people up. Yeah, and he did that for me.

I feel like there’s a various, I don’t know, loads of things I could say, but the words won’t really come to me.

But I will say that a bit, … I feel that I’ve got someone’s fingers around my throat! But I will just say:

“Mate, you were a brother!”

And well, you still are!

Thanks a lot. I’m gonna bring it to an end. Thanks everyone for listening. And do him proud! And I think I’ll see some of you tomorrow on Patriotic Weekly Review. And let’s just try and continue in his spirit.

So thanks everyone! I’m going to end it now.

So take care! Good bye.

[210:36]

END

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Simon Harris – EF 25 – The State of the Art with Jeff Winston & Nick Cotton – May 19, 2020 — Transcript

admin — Wed, 20 May 2020 05:02:48 +0000

[Simon Harris and Horus talk with Jeff Winston, founder of White Art Collective, and Nick Cotton, founder of Vile Media, and Unwashed. They discuss the need for promoting art, in all its forms, with a pro-White nationalist perspective and emphasis.

Simon also very kindly gave this site, katana17.com/wp/, a plug and urged listeners to help out with the transcripts here! Thanks Simon!

— KATANA]

>(NOTE: This transcript has only been partially fully proofed (35/121 mins). Please volunteer some time and help complete the transcript. Instructions are given below. Doing even just a couple of minutes is helpful — thanks!)<<<

Contributors, so far: Dawn Browning.

_____________

European Freedom #55

The State of Art

with Jeff Winston &

Nick Cotton

May 19, 2020

Click here for the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awpVp1jbOlY

Published on May 19, 2020

Simon Harris
17.4K subscribers
Programme Notes
EF #25: The State of the Art with Jeff Winston (White Art Collective) and Nick Cotton (Vile/Unwashed)
https://www.europeanfreedom.com/2020/…

Entropy Link for Superchats, Questions and Poll on Livestreams
https://entropystream.live/app/Simon

Horus on Twitter @nastymutant

Unwashed on Twitter @ed_unwa
Website https://www.vilemedia.co.uk

White Art Collective on Twitter @WhiteCollective
Website https://www.whiteartcollective.com

Support My Work
https://www.subscribestar.com/simonha…
https://ko-fi.com/europeanfreedom
http://www.paypal.me/simonharrisbcn
http://www.patreon.com/simonharris
https://entropystream.live/app/Simon

ETH: 0xE5E735486b1b623D5D5B8Bf4a37Ab8C81c74B74f

If you use the new Brave browser for 30 days, they’ll fund my channel with a bonus!
Here’s the link: https://brave.com/eur333

Twitter: https://twitter.com/EuropeanFreedo1
Minds https://www.minds.com/SimonHarris
Gab https://gab.ai/simonharris

Simon Harris on BitChute
https://www.bitchute.com/channel/zlj8…

Join the conversation on the European Freedom Forum
http://talk.europeanfreedom.com/index…

____________

TRANSCRIPT

(121:26 mins)

[00:00]

Simon: Okay. Hello everyone! I hope the stream has started. Welcome to European Freedom livestream number 25. And this one’s called “The State of the Art”. And we’ve got some two great guests. Jeff Winston from the White Art Collective, and Nick Cotton! We were just talking about this. Not everybody knows Nick Cotton. But Nick Cotton is Unwashed, and he also is running the project Vile, Vile Media. So we’re gonna have a really interesting show.

But before we kind of get started before I talk about Horus’s dinner which is the traditional thing we do to start the stream. I just wanted to mention, well I just wanted to admonish listeners and subscribers, and give a shout out to a guy called “katana 17” who has a website. Let’s see if I can find a website. Yeah, here’s the katana 17 website. And what katana does is he transcribes, he uploads lots of documents, books, PDFs. But his main work has been transcribing speeches. He did various speeches of the both the PA conferences, and videos, and livestreams.

Basically what he’s doing is he’s documenting the intellectual basis of this movement. I think it’s incredibly important work! He’s a member of my forum, and I’ll put the forum in the chat. I’ll put various links in the chat. And we were kind of hoping when he got into the forum — I’m just putting the link in there now — that he gets some help doing this incredibly important transcription work. And I’ll put the link to his, … Yeah I mean, look at it! He’s got all this stuff here, this stuff by me, this stuff by Morgoth, Morgoth’s last video. I mean, loads and loads of really important stuff. Let me put his link in.

And, you know what he needs is he needs help doing this important work. I kind of get loads of people saying to me:

“Simon! Simon! What can I do to help?”

And the moment you say well something really useful would be transcribing five minutes of such and such a live stream, and helping katana with his work. And. What do you get? The sound of crickets. So I’m a little bit pissed off with people in general. I would suggest you can either go straight to his website, and he’s got instructions and you can help him by taking a piece of a live stream, or a document and using the comments section.

Alternatively you can go to my forum and you can interact with him there. Just sign up to the forum. And it would be nice to get a kind of community of people doing, … One of the reasons for the forum is that is to coordinate people. It’s where people have time and interact with each other. So those are your two options. Please help him! He really needs some help. It’s very, very important.

Anyway, after that little rant, I’ll say hello to my mate Horus first. How’s it going? What have you had for dinner today mate?

Horus: I had a Thai green curry, which I made myself.

Unwashed: Booo! [chuckling]

Horus: What it’s not British?

Unwashed: Well it’s normally fish and chips, or a pie, or something! [chuckling]

Horus: We don’t have pies often enough, actually. Yeah, no we do often have fish and chips. But green curry and rice, and broccoli, you know, the classic accompaniments with Thai green curry [word unclear] goes well.

Simon: And for pudding?

Horus: I had sort of Tesco’s own brand “After Eights”. Two of them, really nice. Do, you know what’s different tonight though?

Simon: Yes I know. We already knew this, so [trumpet sounds] come on, tell us!

Horus: You don’t know what I’m gonna say. Well, there’s that as well, I’ll tell you that after. The less interesting bit is that normally after dinner on a Tuesday, like ready for European Freedom, I’ll go for a quick walk to walk off my dinner. I come in and put my dressing gown on. But it’s just too warm!

So tonight I’m just sitting in shorts! No one really cares, but, … The other thing is I put out my new, well I started putting out my new videos — in six parts. There might be seven. I might do a seventh part. But yeah, they’re on my BitChute channel. Part 1 & 2, are on my BitChute channel. So thanks to everyone who’s watched in them. You know, check them out, they might be interesting.

Simon: Okay. I haven’t watched it yet, but I’m sure I will. As I was putting the links in the description box I noticed that you’ve done it. So this is the big news for this week!

[05:01]

Horus: And there’s another thing as well. I got banned off YouTube! So anyone who’s looking for me on YouTube I’m banned now. But I am still on BitChute, so yeah. Sorry, carry on.

Simon: Okay and the next person, the first person we got to say hello to is Nick. How’s it going Nick? Unwashed, Vile Media, man of many faces, and many things! How’s it going mate? We’d not talked for a while, actually.

Unwashed: Not on a stream, but, you know,

Simon: We have we talked privately, obviously, but not on a stream. So, I know what’s up with you, tell the viewers what’s up.

Unwashed: The viewers, what’s up with me? I’ve got Vile episode, six season finale, on Sunday. And I’ve set the bar too high for that one. So I haven’t started editing it, because I’m nervous! Like, I just want it to be this enormous White pill of all of our successes so far this year, and any sort of nostalgia that that we’ve missed, that we haven’t put in the past five!

So yeah, I’ve got to pull that one out of the bag for some day. But then I can have a rest! I’m really happy with what we’ve done over there. And the submissions that we’re getting for articles are just great. And Simon submitted a playlist for a mixtape! It’s all going well! It’s all good fun, the stuff that I’m involved in at the moment.

Simon: Yeah, yeah, I think it’s really cool. It’s kind of reclaiming recent culture isn’t it? That’s is that a fair summary of what you’re doing?

Unwashed: That’s a very good way to put it. Yes this reclaiming stuff, because. So I’m a refugee from the UK music scene. And I noticed that every single sub-genre is hard Left, for no good reason. But that every single, little, micro genre has been captured! And they all babble the same talking points about multiculturalism, pro-choice, whatever. And I just think it’s time to say:

“No! As British nationalist we get to be proud of anything that was by British people, fundamentally!”

So Sex Pistols, having that! All the British comedy that we love that other people around the world wouldn’t get, because it’s not from their culture, we’re having that! And that’s my logic for it, it doesn’t have to be like, you know, nationalists. We can’t go around just going:

“Oh Morrissey’s our boy, and no one else’!”

I think there’s a better way to do it. So that’s what we’re attempting.

Horus: Morrissey’s Screwdriver?

Unwashed: Yeah, exactly! You know, [chuckling] and yeah I’m not the biggest fan of their imagery, if I’m honest.

Horus: Or their pony songs?

Unwashed: I’ve never listened to them. But I did ask Mark about them. I was like:

“So is it overblown, or were they, you know, as the media’s described them?”

It’s like:

“Yeah, they went pretty full-on!”

Alright, okay. That’s not really what I’m about, and what I’m endorsing.

Simon: Okay let’s get on to the guest who we don’t know yet. And finally get to him. Jeff, Jeff Winston of the White Art Collective. How’s it going mate? It’s really nice to talk to you for the first time.

Jeff: Yeah it’s nice to talk to you guys. Hello, and thanks for having me on. This is the first time I’ve done a show in a different time zone. And it makes sense for it to be our brethren across the pond. So thank you guys very much for having me.

Simon: Yeah you had a bit of a problem didn’t you? Aren’t we on your lunch hour now?

Jeff: Yeah, thereabouts. Actually, I miscalculated that. It’s a little after my lunch hour. But I adjusted, because I badly wanted to be on here and talk to you guys. So I’m technically working from home. So, you know how that goes [loud laughter]

Simon: So you could move things about a bit.

Jeff: Exactly.

Simon: Okay. Really, I mean, I think the truth is lots of our audience in the UK aren’t that familiar of what the White Art Collective is about. You seem to be mainly US based. But there are exceptions. There’s our own very good Jack White, who I had on a stream over Christmas. And there’s a few people here in Europe. But I think it’s fair to say that most of you are based the US, although we’d like to encourage more adherents here in Europe. Can you give us some kind of an introduction? However, you like, how it started, when it came together, and who’s involved, really.

Jeff: Yeah, first of all I’ll kind of give you our main mission statement. So the White Art Collective is a collection of artists of European descent whose mission is to preserve promote, celebrate and expand upon our shared European culture. And definitely like you said there, we are American centric. I’m the founder and director so, you know, I’m an American. And that went into like how I’ve shaped it, the reason I use the term White, rather than European, even though, I kind of obviously, we use that somewhat exchange to be very synonymous, obviously. And then turn around and defined as a collection of artists of European descent.

And we do have quite, we’re definitely American centric, but we do have quite a few people from across the euro sphere. We got quite a few from the UK. We’ve played some of Nick stuff as well. Looking forward to getting to some more stuff from him. And Jay Ray Do who’s also affiliated with Nick and Vile, he sent us the song “Jack is White”, is one of our main featured artists. Jack is great! Jack’s brilliant! And he’s a pillar of the White Art Collective community. He’s involved in a number of other shows and goings on behind the scenes. The Decency, also super talented guy. And we’ve worked with Zerious a lot. Hiris has done a couple collaborations with him. She’s one of our, she’s an American with a Welsh name there. And let’s see, Mama P from Mamas and the Pepe’s. She’s also done a couple collaborations with Zerious.

But yeah, we got people from Romania, Sweden, Australia, Canada, Hungary, Poland, France, Norway. One of the Whiter countries in South America. I cannot remember it off the top my head. It’s been a while since I talked to that gentleman. And also France. We just got a couple, got in contact with a couple of French guys. So it’s cool that we’re kind of expanding out in that way. And that one of the reasons that we wanted to come onto the show here, is to do that.

[11:44]

So the way it kind of got started was that I’ve been playing music, I’m an artist and a filmmaker myself, and I’ve also done some DJing and some event organizing. I’m also a writer as well. And so for a long time I’ve just seen the need for organization amongst artists. I see artists kind of get kicked around. You know, I’ve gone and lived in some of these like artist enclaves, like Nick was saying. These places and a lot of the genres and everything involved are very leftist. And there’s no reason that they should own those things. But they are at the moment for the most part. And so I’ve gone and lived in those places, and just seeing artists kind of get the short end of the stick from the business side of things, and just in general.

You know, artists are very independently minded people. It’s kind of hard to get them to organize. They’re probably the most non-conforming types you’re gonna come across. So it’s almost oxymoronic to try to get them to come together. But this isn’t the first time that artists have been organized. There was a time when there were, you know, guilds and things like that and different types of organizations that back in different parts of Europe where people organized in these types of ways.

But, so yeah, I just recognized that artists needed to be organized. And then when I saw, so I’d kind of had that in the back of my mind. But then in the last few years when I saw all of this very anti-nationalist, anti-traditional, anti-White, sentiment, I saw the need to organize to protect that culture and protect that art. Because we’re constantly under critique. And there really isn’t a meaningful organization that I’ve seen to push back against that.

And, you know, artists kind of need something, you need to have some kind of entity to get people to organize around. Like one of the elements of what we do, is just getting people to collaborate. Like a lot of people have met each other through the White Art Collective that would have never otherwise, you know, been affiliated with one another. Because everybody’s got their own channel, they’ve got their own page on Bandcamp and whatever deviantART, wherever they might be posted. And there’s not necessarily anyone like an entity encouraging them to come together.

So yeah, I started this back in January of 2018 with just me and a couple friends. Like I built a very simple DIY website, which we’re working on updating. I really want to get that set up for that to be where people go to find out what’s going on with White Art Collective and also for artists to be able to log in there. And for it to actually facilitate the collaboration itself.

But yeah, so we’ve been building this up since January of 2018. Started out with just a handful of musicians, and I’ve been slowly building a rapport with all these different artists. Started American centric, I mean, still American centric. But I started getting people all across the euro sphere, like I said before. And now we do have a pretty good blend of people and perspectives from different places. Like, sorry go ahead.

[15:00]

Simon: No, you continue. I thought you stopped.

Jeff: Yeah, that’s, I was about to I guess. I think that pretty much sums up what we’re doing, what we’re about. So the kind of the main functions, like that mission statement is fairly high-level. So like I said, one of the things we’re facilitating is collaboration.

It’s also community building. Just so that you have people, friends, you know, we live in a fairly alienated time, just modernity in general. This whole kind of global era. And so artists are gonna float around and kind of struggle more than a lot of people, just anyway. So we’re here to support them on that front as well. But also to try to get them resources. It’s my job, that’s kind of part of the collaboration, but I’m constantly looking at, like I have a couple people in the queue I need to get back in touch with. One of them is a like a metal singer, you know, he sings to metal stuff.

And then I have people submitting music to me that are, they like created an entire metal song, but they don’t have any vocals, right? So, I’m constantly looking for ways to help people get the pieces they need to kind of make the full and complete piece. And we have quite a few shows too. Like, we want to feature people, because another part of it is I think a lot of our folks have been, because the art scene is so inherently anti-White, whether it’s the fine arts, whether it’s the music industry, Hollywood, the film industry, anywhere is very leftist! And so our perspective, especially of a White male, but just White people in general, and people of European descent in general, is very much pushed out of that.

So just having a place where you feature stuff from our perspective inspires people to create! And I can’t tell you, I’ve had quite a few people who just come to me and said:

“Thank you so much for doing this! It just it inspired me to want to do something!”

Like that in and of itself is a huge part of what we’re doing.

Simon: I mean, I think it’s really important. As we were preparing this stream, I mean, one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on is I think it’s fundamental that we bring the kind of political and cultural wings of the dissident Right together. We’ve got to be talking to each other. And, in fact, the question I’ve got on Entropy:

“Is politics downstream from culture?”

It obviously is. And in many respects what we need to be working towards, … Nick and I did a stream with Semiogue a few days ago, and we were talking about how do we go about reclaiming and re-energizing culture, music, arts, poetry. I mean, it’s the whole gamut of things that seem to be totally decadent in my opinion! They really lost it! In my program notes I mentioned that I haven’t actually bought new music. I’ve kind of bought old CDs. I’m still kind of pretty into it.

And I’ve been rebuying some of my post-punk bands, and the odd progressive thing. But. I don’t think I bought any new music since 1995. I haven’t been to the cinema since 1998. And I haven’t really watched any television since 2014, I think.

And I never go to, I go to lots of museums, but never to contemporary art museums. Because the whole, you know what is shoved at me through the mainstream media just turns me off completely! So I think that the work that you’re doing is really important. One question I wanted to ask you is, do the people that collaborate have to be overtly political? Is that part of it, or do you have a more free concept of what you’re trying to achieve?

Jeff: No we definitely have a very free concept. I think initially it just kind of inherently drew people who were more oriented towards that, because we’re kind of like rejuvenating this thing and not everybody had quite internalized all of the ideas to where they could just create without, you know, kind of unintentionally putting, or putting that in there, you know, more than you probably normally would.

But I think as we’ve been developing and as we’ve all kind of gotten that out of our system, we’ve started to attract more people who kind of come from an apolitical perspective. Which is exactly in my opinion what we want to do is, you know, like you said, and I agree with you. You and I had been discussing this a little bit, that we definitely need to be a united front, the political realm and the cultural realm. And what we’re doing as artists. But at the same time they are distinctly different things and they serve a different purpose.

So I want people to be making genuinely inspired art. And if they feel that they have to shoehorn in propaganda into that — not that I’m against propaganda, that’s an art in and of itself and we’ve discussed that and some panels and things with the White Art Collective.

Another one of the things we do is kind of address these concepts. But still, we’ve actually had a number of people recently, … And a guy actually messaged me as a visual artist, actually a New Zealander, and so I guess I forgot to say New Zealand earlier! And he said, he was telling me, he was like:

“I’m not overtly traditionalist, or nationalist, so I don’t know if this is something you’d be interested in.”

But he sent me his links to his stuff and I responded that no, I was like:

“No that’s exactly what we want! That’s great!”

Because it doesn’t need to be overtly that, it’s basically just that we’re genuinely expressing the ‘bio-spirit’ as Jason Kohne would put it, of our people. We just want our essence and our perspective to be represented in it. And I want people to freely express themselves

[21:18]

Simon: Yeah. I mean, that sounds great. Nick? Horus? You got anything to chip in here? Let’s make this a free-for-all! Let’s grill Jeff on where the White Art Collective are coming from.

Jeff: Bring it!

Horus: Well I had a question, I suppose it could go to anyone. Would you say that often when people decide, we as a movement, we as like nationalists, need art, you know, we need to produce and compete in the cultural realm, that it can often be overly self-conscious? And be not really enjoyable in the way that other art is? And therefore not really penetrate beyond those who are already politically committed to liking it. Have you ever encountered that?

Jeff: Yeah, I mean,

Horus: I’m sorry, I would just to add, I was a libertarian before and like there was a few groups, or poets, or whatever, and they were known as libertarians. And they were like, you know, there are our movement’s musicians. But it was a bit shit, you know. [chuckling] Because it was self-consciously saying:

“We need to make such a thing as libertarian art.”

Whereas like, Simon asked you Jeff that like, you don’t have to be overtly political. And I assume that’s, you know, that goes a long way to not having that problem.

Jeff: Yeah, exactly! I mean, like I said, I think starting out it was kind of that way a little bit but the I think it had to have and another important part of this too of what we’re doing is like artists need the opportunity to develop, you know, there was a time when like record labels, you know, back in the 90s 80s 70s, you know, back into the classic rock they would have bands that would have two, or three albums before anything really hit with the public and that’s just totally unheard of now, because it’s like if it doesn’t sell like you were out it is a product it is a commodity. And if it doesn’t move then you’re just you don’t exist anymore so that’s another thing we’re doing like that can’t business can’t drive the art world there needs to be the opportunity for artists to develop so that’s another thing we’re doing and to that like I said when we kind of started out, you know, myself and I think some other people too we kind of were a little more overt, you know, maybe we weren’t as maybe, maybe sometimes you be a little trihard this, you know, it just it’s part of the developmental process of eventually kind of honing and refining not only people’s individual craft. But I think just our the honing the overall movement in and I think we have I think we’ve gotten to that place now like I said that we are starting to attract more people and our artists who are already with us feel more comfortable just expressing themselves and not necessarily feeling like they have to try to intentionally put some kind of political message in there. And I think that’s where we’re gonna have the greatest amount of success because, you know, when you’re doing I think when you’re doing art right it’s just gonna feel people are gonna identify it’s only gonna like you said about the British humor, right? Like it’s a perspective well and I do like some British humor and it is different than American humor obviously, you know. But I enjoy it, because it’s not it’s we’re still fairly closely related so it’s relatable and but, you know, it comes from a clear perspective it’s not really meant for out-groups they’re not going to understand it, you know, so if you do your perspective right then the [25:02] people will identify with it and like it and I think the less that we try to put a message in there, the better it will probably be. But again that is separate from propaganda and I think propaganda is kind of an it’s an art in and of itself but when artists are just expressing themselves freely they should just do that just let go, you know, be yourself.

Horus: Ingenious propaganda can be something that you admire artistically even if it’s from someone evil.

Jeff: Yeah I mean, as we’ve probably all done I’ve certainly been studying the propaganda of communist pretty extensively over the last few years and it is something to behold how especially in film but music — but film is just so immersive that I think it’s some of the most effective propaganda, because — like — the subconscious mind, or the unconscious mind it almost feels like a lived experience so people they see these historical events and they feel like that that image of that historical event is more real to them than the abstract information and data that they gather from like a history book, or something, you know, so that’s they felt that event when they see it on film and the way that the kind of globalists and communist types and Marxist types the way that they crafted propaganda when it was subtle I mean, it is something to behold and it is evil but it is like it’s impressive you gota, you know, again I don’t like him but it’s you got a study it to understand like wow how effective it’s been. And I think that’s what people lean leaning to the right and the traditionalist and nationalist I think they haven’t taken that seriously they don’t take art seriously enough in how powerful it is.

Horus: That sense of something well worth study news well, because on the Communist side you also have what I mentioned before about the very self-consciously politically agitated art and when communists do that is corneas when I mean, what anyone else does it but they do also, as you say, have things that are what wholly immersive what kind of thing all kind of like films, or whatever you refer to that are examples of them doing that very well on the Communist side the Marxist side?

Jeff: Good question.

Horus: I mean, I think of Eisenstein.

Jeff: Yeah I’m thinking like I don’t know Schindler’s List alright, you know, any basic Eleni thing from World War Two and the power of that also is that there’s just the insane the just the quantity of World War Two and “Holocaust” films is so plentiful that that narrative is so deeply burned into people’s minds, you know, it that is really something incredible, you know, because let’s say if you compare that to the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, I and actually it’s fun there’s like a there’s a Wikipedia page for the “Holocaust” and there’s a Wikipedia page kind of for like Bolshevik films, or whatever and I mean, it’s not even close and then, of course, most of the Bolshevik films like they’re, you know, no one’s ever heard of them they’ve barely been translated to English, or other languages, you know, so it’s just not even comparable as far as how the narrative of that event has reached of the world.

Horus: Yeah I mean, chambers listen list alone is enormous impact human people who almost don’t even need to watch it and know they were I imagine those people who on the way to the cinema were already letting themselves be emotionally offense. But I didn’t know they’re gonna go see this, you know, they’d heard these reviews described them as powerful and so on, you know, any but and he said this is going to make me more righteous in some way see it’s incredible I mean, that’s marketing as well isn’t it?

Jeff: Yeah yeah that’s why there has to be there’s a whole mechanism and ecosystem as to what legitimizes those messages to like it’s the critics that’s a part of its the marketing all of those things kind of combined and that’s why I’m excited about what Nick is doing with vial is, because I’ve been saying thinking for a while and cuff set it on some podcast and things that we needed like a non-communist rolling stone, you know, something that’s like chic and hip and has like youthful energy in it that kind of captures that same kind of vibe but from our perspective and I’m not saying that vial is necessarily doing that, but it has elements of that I mean, it’s definitely it’s very aesthetic and it is chic and hip and I’m just saying, you know, it’s not quite ruling stone, or non-communist really [30:00] Rolling Stone is a mess, you know, its own thing over there, but that’s why I really like what dick and Lucy are doing, because I think it’s incredibly important I got really excited when I saw that they were doing T

Simon: That’s the perfect moment for Nick to come in really isn’t it and do you think Nick that there’s a some kind of crossover between what you’re doing and watch what Jeff and his collective are doing.

Unwashed: There’s a huge crossover I mean, I’ve already we hosted their mixtape last week and I think we’re both being interviewed by them soon and we’re gonna return the favor and cross-pollination is the best thing that we can do in the cultural side of things. I mean, it’s the best thing that you can do in the political wing as well but like I just said one inch at four for the serious and high earth collaboration, because that made it further than any of the stuff that they’ve done before I think it was a really big deal that the two people that were sort of separately respected had to come together to do something it felt like a nice leap forward and there’s been lots of these in 2020. I do want to talk about like we’d already touched on the fact that you don’t have to be like a tub-thumping nationalists in your lyrics to fit in this that’s not what we’re aiming for and I seem a lot of people won’t know this but like before I started the channel I’d actually written a whole album of songs and I wasn’t an ethno-nationalism dabao things and I’d started writing about them so that’s like an example of how yeah I wasn’t where I am now. But I still needed to write something that was like a rejection of everything that I was being fed by my crap leftist music scene so there must be tons and tons of people out there like that and what’s really interesting about some of the songs I’ve written is they’ve actually become a lot more pertinent since then like I did one about the Covington kids where when I wrote it I thought I was just honing in on these kids and the fact that they were demonized and they’d been highlighted for being White and privileged and stuff by actually looking back on it a year later I’m like oh that’s a song about White people so I don’t know the fact that so many artists will feel unwelcome in the current paradigm and they’ll have that desire in them to create art, because Europeans have that stronger than anyone else I think. They’re gonna want to create and that doesn’t mean that it’s going to have to be addressing what really happened around the 1930s no it’s just gonna be what’s in them and what they’re concerned about what the real thoughts are but it started happening, you know, I think that the White Art Collective is people that were so desperate to do this that they found each other I’ll gonna pass it back to Jeff to see if that’s true but most of the people actually started writing before discovering that this was a thing, because that’s what I’ve heard.

Jeff: Yeah, I think there’s kind of a mixture there I think everybody was already, you know, an artist that had done something to some extent but maybe they’d kind of put it away, because you kind of implicitly pick up on the fact that what you’re creating if you just naturally create something that’s an expression of your European people that it, you know, comes from that perspective it’s a distinct thing you already know that’s like not wanted in society. They’re trying for more diversity they don’t want any of that Hollywood is too White the music industry is too White supposedly right and so people just feel disincentivized if that’s a word, you know, to create so you well yeah, I think like for me I’ve been doing this I mean, I’ve been creating independently for like 20 years. So I I’d yeah it is I’ve basically for me yeah was just like a frustration of like there’s there is no thing that’s there is no organization, or entity that I can join that it’s gonna help me do what I need to do so I guess I’ll have to create it, you know, that’s just the kind of guy I am. And I think you’re correct that there were people there were artists out there who were kind of seeking something even if they didn’t know it and then when they came across us they’re like oh cool, you know, this is exactly what I kind of need I need a group of people who think more like I do that I can work with on this kind of stuff, because you just can’t be an artist in a vacuum. And if you were it would kind of suck.

Unwashed: Well what’s really wonderful about the White Art Collective is I’ve seen it already today anytime [35:00] that one of you guys is guesting on someone else’s podcast the chat fills up with your guys and they’re so supportive and so happy and people are like keen to pitch in and help one another and it’s markedly different from the music scene that I was used to where it was a bit false, because it was a hierarchy and a ladder which everyone was trying to climb and everyone’s really rivals with one another but can’t really say it out loud and obviously everyone’s doing their whoa cover to signaling the whole way along so everyone’s just lying all day every day anyway. But there’s a desperation within this network where if you’ve got, you know, one talent, or one ability and someone else needs it boom you’re together and you’re going to be helping each other for free, because you’re working towards something much bigger, whereas the leftist music scene that I came from it was nothing more than self aggrandizement it was just like how big can I make my platform what’s the biggest gig that I can get how many people can I get looking at me whereas what we got over here is authentic and driven by something else I love it!

Simon: Isn’t this a relative oh it seems to me being the old guy here. I don’t know how old Jeff is but I’m pushing 60. So I’ve been around around the park a few times. But back in my day there was a strong sense of community between musicians back in when I was playing in punk and post-punk bands back in Natyam we had the Nottingham musician’s collective and we helped how each other’s out with gear all the hands used to go and see each other all the time when we recorded out for a single I remember people helping us out blending as a van to get down to London I mean, what are the things that has happened certainly during my lifetime is this community sense and it’s the anti-White the anti-White campaign is being successful this community sense is really full and full of their party so I think it’s what Jeff is doing and what we’re all trying to do is recapture something that is really part of very recent memory I don’t know what you think about that?

Unwashed: I’d like to hop in on that one really quickly is the scene that you’re describing the people pitching in helping each other out supporting the other bands that does exist that. That was still there in that music scene that I was involved with the problem was that they were unified against an enemy that didn’t even exist they were so anti-racist and anti Brexit and anti gammon and all of that stuff and I seriously mean it every single gig that I went to before just going, you know, will screw all this I give up I need a new life had an orange man bad spiel in it every last one had a Trump rant, or some pro-choice rant, or whatever it become a monoculture! So they still pitched in and helped each other out but they also were continually talking about how much they despised more than half of the country. So that’s where the rock really is.

Horus: I remember in about 2003 I think the last song it’s a Reading Festival there was all the hands I saw maybe one maybe two at most made some little spiel on stage about I think it’s holy blare at a time from the Left though and it was cringe-worthy then but it was exceptional and now you’re saying that almost is you almost can’t not do it is that right?

Unwashed: Yeah man I went to a Folk Festival last summer and, you know, in my head that’s sort of me getting away from it all this is me reveling in tradition all traditional performers playing instruments that you barely see anymore and still orange man bad every single set every single set and I’m there going you guys don’t actually know what you’re doing you’re actually fighting our fight without even realizing it you might you might say like oh we need to help the refugees but you’re on a stage with your hurdy-gurdy, or whatever holding up European tradition you’re actually fighting I’ll fight and you don’t even know it.

Jeff: Yeah the I think what kind of to what we were talking about earlier what the mistake that they’re making is now everything is overtly political in the art that they do and so I think it’s driving out a lot of artists who are not necessarily even political at all and who are not even necessarily leaning in our direction. But I think that the art scene on their side is so terrible and toxic that we could start picking up people who actually lean more left in the spectrum better more sensible reasonable folk who just are so sick of everything being political, because it’s [40:00] art is not supposed to be that political you know, they’ve basically the they’re kind of the people who’ve pushed all of that into art they used like we talked about earlier they used to be very clever it used to be subtle, because they had to be and then when they kind of gained more power and they’ve been consolidating power and now everything’s just right in your face and they’re just like bragging all the time and every single film has a very obvious race-mixing agenda. And it’s just obnoxious and even a lot of non-White people are tired of that, because everyone knows that they know that there’s an agenda behind it so you can’t just sit there and enjoy the music you can’t just sit there and enjoy the film you, you know, that you’re being force-fed this ham-fisted message and it ruins the experience. And I think that’s something that we need to use to our advantage which is why we can’t turn around and do the same thing we don’t want to fight, you know, bad propaganda with bad propaganda ham-fisted garbage we want to make great truly inspired art that comes from our perspective and I think in doing that a lot of people on the other side are just gonna be like I like what those guys are doing over there I don’t agree with everything but they look like they’re having a good time and they’re not talking about orange man bad every five seconds and they’re not pushing this agenda. So I’m just gonna go see what they’re all about, you know, and from there I think we just start winning them over in other areas.

Unwashed: There’s a song that I’ve found literally within the last week which touches basically on what Jeff is talking about Harris by a band called Fiddler’s then it’s called too real and I’ll just read some lyrics if I can do that very quickly, because I think what they are is they’re not nationalists they’re not right-wingers but they are people who have in a left-wing music scene that have realized what the problem is and absolutely sick of it so they’re rebelling against like woke authoritarians, rather than being, you know, all the way over our side they are some frustrated lefties from the looks of it so the lyrics are well I’ve been thinking about things I can’t say, because everybody freaks out every single day. And if they weren’t so stupid they’d open their eyes the dudududud drugs man saved my life and so on, but like they’re just frustrated with local authoritarian intersectional leftism and they’ve given up on that and then we did put out an article on vile this week which pointed out that on Twitter if you do one of these parody accounts whether you’re taking a piss out of the write with Barry Stanton or, you know, brixi it means Brexit those kind of accounts, or you’re taking a piss out the Left with titania McGrath, or Godfrey elf wick the joke is always on the Left and the people that get it are always on the right no matter what the target is the Left is just a lull Cal that’s based on falsehood so it’s so easy to take the piss out of it without even being, you know, where we are.

Horus: For those of them who are just doing an automatic kind of way as well they just caught up in the idea that you basically you more, or less have to o’clock these political talking points they a lot of them probably can be appealed to right there just caught up in a kind of sad and weak way but they’re not, you know, they’re not doing out of malevolence as such it’s just I would say this applies to so many things there’s just like a leading cadre of like more evil malevolent types. But there’s a lot of people who like what Jeff was describing before like the people having become so overly political that they’re gonna turn around and go what else is on like what else can I watch, because this is just this is freezing me out almost but it does seem like the ideal time for a more other mode joyful I don’t know exactly what the right word with people just like something coming of its cellular art for its own sake once more, you know, like which should never have gone away but somehow has become submerged for them to turn trying to find that right now it seems like a great time, you know, it seems like a great time for that to happen so. But I think what our collective and vile like it seems very, very timely menos.

Unwashed: I think because, as you say, like all of the art the mainstream art it’s expected to virtue signal now like everyone knew exactly what was gonna happen with that Doctor Who series as soon as it was announced there was a woman it’s like well that’s not gonna be the only woke thing in there it’s gonna just be a whole series of White guilt. But that gives us the freedom to, as you say, make something that actually appears on the surface quite neutral and might even be neutral, you know, I think up our team is [45:00] essentially fighting to do things that we always used to like village fete and stuff like that it’s all quite quaint.

Horus: Your story especially Nick over the last years is this quite a strong emotional strain so we’re talking about like you’ve actually been shunned right for doing nothing wrong and there’s a lot of other people who are ready for some sort of emotional some sort of welcoming once again, you know, not always having to harsh, or antifa as they are not aesthetic but the harsh antifa facet, or don’t know what the word is. But I the harshness of the nasty left, you know, some people are gonna want something that’s absent from which that is absent, you know, they’re gonna want something it’s just enjoyable and pleasant and lovely in some ways, you know, and things like that I mean, vile isn’t particularly lovely, but a vile is very funny but, you know, like lovely meaty like. But I think of higher if not, you know, things that people are just gonna want loveliness for his own sake and, you know, humor for as I say I mean, good I’ve said this before. But I used to love a lot of left-wing comedians I was already on the right I would say buy you some oblong left-wing committee that especially think of Stewart Lee until 2010 when the Tories got back in government and they just all suddenly became political and I was like oh right this is I figure this out over a while. This is a thing they do wooden when Labour are in government they’re funny when the Tories in government there’s just warriors and they’re not funny anymore, you know, they think they forget about laughing for its own sake I forget about is making people laugh just uh you can’t only think that we want we do want satire and stuff as well but the automaticity with which the Left adopted that kind of strategy almost, or something I was just auto response was just ugly and dismal and I would welcome anything that could break that pattern.

Simon: I was just wondering Jeff when you were in the communes and everything were you left-leaning back then how long have you actually been a been a nationalist, or White centric.

Jeff: So yeah, like when I was younger I mean, I was like I would always say that I was like a left-leaning independent there was a period where I watched John Stewart and thought that that was funny, because they were taking the piss out of the George with bush neocon, you know, corporatism kind of vibe and I liked that. And then, you know, then we went through with the Obama years and I was like wait a second, you know, the anti-White part came out and I still don’t like the neo-cons, you know, so that was like the one side and now there’s the far-left who’s like the global communist faction you got the right which is the Republican types that are more the global capitalist faction and then so now people are realizing like oh you don’t have to like either these guys these are two distinctly different sets of groups that aren’t with us either of them. So I kind of went through that process and also just getting a little bit older and more mature, you know, people tend to start to lean a little bit more to the right become a little more conservative close ranks a little bit and I think it was also just seeing the it was fine when the idea was like hey let’s all just be nice to each other, you know, it was okay tolerate this other groups differences okay sure, you know, and I’m the kind of guy who’s always been interested in other cultures, because I’m just a I’m interested in culture in general. So it’s kind of fascinating that all these different ways that different people are but that never meant I was giving up my own culture I’m very much an American and my family on my dad’s sides been here for four hundred years, you know, I think that’s I feel like that’s plenty of time to develop a very distinct identity so and, you know, so when I felt that they were encroaching on that like. But it’s not okay to be White as like no that was not part of the deal so that all of that I don’t feel like I really changed that much like everything else went crazy to the Left is what how it feels to me.

Simon: Yeah, I think that’s quite similar to me if I look back to my musician days which is pretty much 1977 to 1995, 1996 um so it’s a while ago now. But I want really often used the term to refer to myself default leftist I was kind of seriously left when I was at university that kind of rebellious stage when I read Marx and I made all this angry post-punk music but it wasn’t really [50:00] it was default leftist it was left it was rebellion left it certainly wasn’t anti-White it seems to me that this and today actually I was in preparing preparation for this stream is an odd preparation I watched the documentary on YouTube which was 60 years of the Shadows which Cliff Richard for the shadows and just watching it was this was everything was automatically White back then. It didn’t really cross anybody’s mind to be anything else this is typically British culture but looking at their autumn, you know, Brian May Pete Townsend the various Beatles talking about how much the shadows had influenced them and then me moving up into the 70s glam rock punk and even making this post-punk tape mix for Nick it’s only since I’ve stopped music that this anti-White agenda, or that I’ve become aware of its really kicked into kind of hyper mode. I certainly wasn’t aware of it when I was younger although as default leftist I imagine. This is a bit like you.

Jeff: Yeah and I mean, I grew up in a very rural Midwest ER and environment might, you know, my dad is the very blue-collar so I kind of was inherently born into this pretty right weaning right-leaning perspective, you know, we were all about collecting guns working on cars, you know, all that kind of stuff driving tractors around.

Simon: Having BBQs.

Jeff: Yeah BBQs [laughter] but burgers love them hamburgers. But yeah, I it was a very gradual process and it was like you said back then the like, you know, I really started kind of coming of age in the early 90s I started really paying attention to music and I realized I had a knack for it and an interest in it and I started playing and the music of the early 90s which I do think there was a legitimately inspired thing going on there with, you know, grunge movement and a lot of that kind of thing I’m a big fan of Radiohead the I know those guys politics are not the greatest. But I still like, you know, a lot of their music you can’t deny that they’re incredibly talented artists so I and, of course, I think Radiohead is super British right they’re super White that’s in same way with bands like a tool I’m a big fan of tool and all of this stuff was still very inherently White. It was nihilistic it was maybe not going in a the greatest direction, you know, obviously Nirvana to it stuff like that, but it still was very much an expression I think of people of European descent. And then that all kind of started to shift in the mid 90s things got more corporate I think also had a lot to do with the ownership of like record labels and just media in general became very centralized actually in the United States there was a Telecommunications Act of 1996 to where we used to have, you know, certain regulations you could only own somebody rate so many radio stations TV stations newspapers, etc., in a given market and they started breaking down all those regulations to where basically you could monopolize and then this company Clear Channel came in and just bought up all these radio stations and everything became very formatted you’ve probably seen those like Supercuts where they show like all these different local quote-unquote TV stations who are all literally reading the exact same script from, you know, that’s obviously been handed down from high on from the corporate down the ladder. And I think that’s played a huge part in who owns the media like who owns this is something I’ve found in working, you know, with what I’m doing with wack is like curation is an incredibly important important part of culture and art and someone is deciding what gets made and who gets played and it’s as important what is played as what isn’t played and that kind of goes back to my point about it’s clear that the people who get to decide who are very much anti-White those people who get to decide what gets put out there and are kind of the bottlenecks for mass distribution they clearly don’t want the kind of stuff I would make, or that Nick would make or, you know, anybody in the wider collective would make they don’t want that kind of stuff even if it’s they might not even always be aware of it doesn’t you don’t have to have some, you know, they don’t have to get like a handed down [55:00] memo although, at this point, they are they are that overt. But there was a time when they weren’t that over it was just kind of understood but yeah, I think that’s a huge part of like you’re saying it there was a point where it was still it was still an expression of us and then it kind of gradually changed and I just thrown that in there, because I think it has a lot to do with the media ownership was consolidated and now we’re in the situation where there’s just a small handful of companies that own all of this so they decide luckily they’re being their delegate amaizing themselves but they’re still incredibly powerful and I still a lot of people kind of fall for the trick, you know,

Simon: Yeah I mean, I come from a generation when Indy really when Indy wasn’t a music category when it was really independent when people really did make their own music and many of them, you know, became successful as on the basis of this I was hoping with the internet, you know, I’m kind of interesting culture I just find it, or interested in music I just find so little very, very inspiring these days and I’m very disappointed that the internet without organizations like the White Art Collective the internet hasn’t yes there’s lots of bands out there doing things getting their own small followings but relatively few people have broken through to the mainstream from the internet and I think. This is a real disappointment in and in many work ways what you’re saying about curating things and forming a collective and turning something like the White out collective whack as you like to call it turning whack into a vanguard that breaks down this barrier because, you know, we’ve got to get out in front of more people we’ve got to get on system onto the mainstream in many respects.

Jeff: Yeah for sure and it’s kind of that was another one of the reasons that I did I started the White Art Collective is that I recognize that it’s all about organization these people are able to decide what gets played and they get to shape culture by curating what’s played and what isn’t played what films get produced and what films don’t get produced, or even like how they are critiqued now we see that Rotten Tomatoes and sites like that, or clearly kind of yeah I don’t want to make any definitive statements but it seems like there’s a big difference between audience scores which there sometimes can be in critic scores. But there seems to be some Borg hivemind thing going on with critics on certain films seemingly the ones that are the most kind of politically driven but. But yeah, that’s kind of what we’re up against and I recognized that you have to get organized if you want to do anything about it, you know, you need a mechanism and something I’ve been thinking a lot about is that you need a distribution mechanism and you need an ecosystem of people doing various things like critique there’s the production itself you need the people kind of promoting it and talking about it and hyping it up like vile, you know, and things of that nature so that you can even begin to compete like we know that there’s a lot of people who are really frustrated with what’s going on but right now they’re not really seeing a legitimate alternative. And I think that’s the vacuum that we need to fill I see this as a huge opportunity and it’s not all about making money, of course, it has to be about making great art first. But I do think there’s an opportunity for that too, because there’s just so many people who are so tired everything all the stuff that’s being made with the orange man bad message constantly caulking them over the head there’s a huge there’s a huge vacuum to be filled. And it’s just a matter of us getting organized in a meaningful way as a united front with organizations like vile wack and also in the political realm with what you guys are doing.

Unwashed: I’ll give you a White pill on that note though, is that everyone who’s within our community is so keen to get on board with anything that’s pushed out that’s art, that’s ours! Like let’s do a quick one in chat – who’s heard “Keep in Mind” by “Xurious and Hiraeth” – you’re gonna get a sea of ones here. But if I was to say:

“Right let’s pick a decent song from the mainstream, from the last five years that we all know and we all like and we all agree on.”

We probably won’t be able to do it! Because (a) we’ve ducked out the mainstream, but (be) there’s nothing good comes through there. But we unify around this stuff. So as soon as someone pumps out something that’s from our gang we’re all really proud of it and desperate to share it and support it straight away. So I think that gives us a huge, huge advantage!

Jeff: Yeah, I agree there. And that was, and is, an excellent collaboration between Xurious and Hiraeth, and very exciting. When I first heard that I got a little behind-the-scenes. I was like “that’s really good” and I had a really good feeling about it. And yeah, I’m so happy that that has had the legs that it has. And there’s no reason that, I mean, it’s of the production value and the quality, talent-wise, that people couldn’t hear that. And it absolutely should be competing on the same level with anything that’s on top 40 radio.

But it’s better, because it has real heart in it. And I agree it is a White pill! And that’s just one of many to come. And I think too that that one is kind of more accessible, because it is kind of, somewhat in the style of things what is acceptable and hip right now in the music world. And what I want to do is build a bridge from that kind of thing into, … Because the thing is, there’s other incredibly brilliant stuff that Hiraeth, for instance, is doing. Some of its a little more experimental. Like things you would have heard, you know, it’s been a long time since you’ve heard like experimental kind of quote-unquote “weird music” become popular. But, like I say, in the 90s there was a lot of interesting wild stuff that I don’t think would have ever made it through now, in the music industry.

And like, she did a collaboration, another one, with a guy called “Dystopia Park”. And it’s called “Origin”, or “Origins” and it’s really cool! And I mean, I want to build a bridge with kind of like, the stuff that’s more accessible to the more interesting stuff that I think is going to, … That’s kind of what changes culture right? Our culture, everything’s been kind of watered down a little bit. So like, it’ll be interesting to see, you know, as hopefully we can get more people listening to the stuff that’s a little bit more out there, that maybe that will start to cultivate just more thought and kind of a more difference in culture in general. It seems like it’s become very mono, I don’t know, just very kind of myopic, I guess.

Unwashed: I’d like to quickly hop back to what you were saying about how the culture was clearly a White culture and that’s just sort of somehow been erased. The bands that you were mentioning. Grunge, name all the grunge artists? You’re not gonna find a black drummer in there are you? And “Tool” is another great example.

And I wrote a piece for Vile not too long ago that was all about —because I think Horus might have some insight into this as well — it was all about the Reading Festival and how when I went 50 Cent got booked as a second headliner. And we all knew exactly why that was wrong! Is because you’re stepping on our turf essentially! This is some part of culture that we do not approve of! And it wasn’t a strictly like racist “we hate hip-hop thing”, because there were other artists there who were black hip-hop artists who were, you know, like it was fine.

But 50 Cent, specifically — it was like you have wasted this slot on us, and we are really not happy about it! Because, you know, that this doesn’t represent us! We know that this doesn’t represent us! Even 50 Cent up there knows, because there’s a shower of bottles hitting him in the face! But now, Stormzy could be booked as the headliner without anyone batting an eyelid. That’s gone now! It’s not a White rock festival anymore. And you could watch it happen over the course of a decade. And I think 50 Cent getting bottled was the last truly great Reading Festival moment!

Jeff: What year was that?

Unwashed: 2004.

Horus: Yeah like it’s true what you’re saying though, that there was plenty of hip hop elements at least accepted within metal, and, you know, alternative rock. Like you could have Biohazard and loads of other groups who had like sort of metal music, but a rap singer. And you’d have all these people listening to hip-hop, you know, like, but maybe not at the festival, but it was part of their repertoire, or whatever But that was something different.

I mean, because you had the same thing with dance music as well. That metallers, you know, if you were in the metal scene in the 90s and early 2000s, you weren’t allowed to like dance music really, right? But you could like “The Prodigy” [chuckling] and a couple of other groups. There was like a selection there. I don’t know what point I’m making here, but it’s exactly true what you said Nick.

Unwashed: That all got broken down with Pendulum, interestingly. Then it was okay for you to like both.

[65:01]

Horus: Who were alright in the first 5 minutes of their career, they were quite good. Then they just went awful!

Unwashed: I don’t think we’re gonna delve into the artistic integrity of Pendulum today [loud laughter], but I know what you mean. Another feature of Reading, was that when the dance tent started being expanded, I remember all the rock and metallers — who were there for the lineup, not to get pissed and just because their friends were going – the people actually liked Reading, because it was Reading were really not happy about it! They were like “we’re losing it!”. And they were right, because if you look at the poster now, it’s like, there’s some rock — none of it has any balls! Yeah, tons of grime, tons of dance — it’s gone!

Horus: So blending everything together. Jeff, I have a question. I assume you’re sort of like broadly in touch with the political side of things. But in case, like what I’m sure, most people have experienced this, that I’m like, you know, I don’t make any art — I do obviously listen to music and stuff — but I’m strongly politically focused. And I think Nick and Simon would agree as well, that this year there’s been a distinct optimism that has been lacking for well I dunno, I’ve never experienced before, in terms of what we can achieve politically. Like it may even be possible to convert, more or less, millions of people to our way of thinking. Do you find any corresponding sense of optimism on the cultural side? Is it the same, or is there anything equivalent to that?

Jeff: Yeah, I mean, I think in the spheres I’m in I think people are very optimistic about the cultural side. We’re kind of up and coming because, you know, I think the political element is kind of the immediate and more obvious thing that has developed. And that’s been around the political element of nationalism. And the cultural and art side of it has been lacking. I think partially just because things weren’t getting dire enough to where it was drawing kind of artistically minded people. Who I do think kind of lean naturally to the Left. That doesn’t mean that they’re – I don’t mean Left like necessarily Marxist, or communist – but just kind of more intuitive and kind of “feeling”, rather than “thinking”.

So I think, there’s an optimism there, because it is starting to shift. Like there’s kind of a natural process to all of this to where they, they’ve pushed too far. Like we were talking earlier. Like there was this long trajectory of shift to the far Left since, you know, probably after World War Two, and really gaining steam in the 1960s. And then it’s just been this non-stop, just bulldozer, to the most absurd ideas. Just everything goes, laissez faire, normalization of pedophilia, and all of these things that people couldn’t even imagine even 10, or 15 years ago! And I think that stuff being shoehorned into a lot of the art is really just waking people up. And just causing a natural kind of seismic shift back to a more traditional way of thinking, in the sense that it’s like:

“Look this stuff is a little bit too far, things were working better when we had families, and men and women were getting along.”

You know, it doesn’t have to be extreme, you don’t have to have “Third Reich” anything. It’s just just basic common sense that those things work better. We’ve been doing those things for thousands of years! And the nation is a the most obvious and functional type of organization.

And perhaps there will be some kind of greater, I think “confederacy”, I think of it that way as far as, you know, the alliances of European nations. But I think nationalism is still ultimately just the obvious way to organize. And there’s just a shift back to that in a common-sense way.

But yeah, back to the main question is that I think there definitely is an optimism, because we’re seeing, like I said, we’re seeing more bands and stuff contacting us. And who are just kind of like “yeah why not”, I mean, “White Art Collective”! We’ve kind of broken down that barrier of them thinking that, … I picked that name specifically, because it is a little bit “triggering” on a couple of fronts. And I’m not necessarily one who goes out trying to “trigger” people. [70:01] But obviously, because the “White” part. But also to kind of get people back into the concept of “collectivism” not belonging to the Left, you know? Any organization is a “collective”, and that doesn’t mean it has a Leftist bent necessarily at all. A family is a collective, you know.

But I think there’s a huge amount of optimism! And now that people are starting to see that what we can, the results of coming together like this. Just like the Xurious and Hiraeth song, what’s possible. What we’re capable of doing with like no resources other than our creativity and willingness to work together! Imagine when we actually start putting some money behind this. And people get more on board with what’s happening, and more and more people, and more of a critical mass.

We are going to be making our own films and things. We actually had a “Spooky Short Film Contest” in the fall, that didn’t get as much attention as it should have. But I mean, people weren’t quite there. We’re still growing and developing. But we’re doing it again this year, and we’re gonna continue to do stuff like that. And again I’m super optimistic about it! And I think more and more people are gonna come to us wanting to be part of that, to have fun and just to make great art!

Horus: Will that be for Halloween?

Jeff: Yeah, we did that for Halloween, yeah. So if anybody out there is interested, yeah, we’re gonna have a “Spooky Short Film Contest” for Halloween. And last year we had a $1,000 cash prize. I haven’t announced anything on that yet, but we’ll definitely at least have a $1,000 cash prize. We’ll look into the other stuff as well.

Horus: Or a year’s supply of pumpkins maybe? [laughter]

Simon: Okay. I just want to give a shout out to some of the White Art Collective people I’ve seen in the chat. I’ve seen Hiraeth, I’m not sure how to pronounce it properly, Hiraeth Music. I think Jack White was in there earlier. What’s the, I can’t find his name, what was the French guy “Iodore” or something like that, I’ve seen him there.

Jeff: Yeah, I think it’s “Hayard”? I think that’s like the English, or I like to say it with a French accent, like “Heyodd”, you know! [chuckling]

Simon: Someone else I want to give a big shout out to, and it’s a shame, perhaps we ought to stream sometime mate. But his name now is Edmond Marta. But in another life, he’s Champion Puffer. And he’s a kind of techno acid house DJ. I can’t remember the name of his radio station. But he’s definitely on our side. And it’s something, … Puffer, you need to be writing stuff! You need to get on board bringing your culture, ‘cos I know, you know, we’ve exchanged experiences back from those days.

Because I used to go down to a studio where – I don’t know if, you know, this label Nick – “Rising High” were based. And I used to know Casper Pound and Pete Smith. I was in the studio, when “The Shaman” were in there one time. Back in those days! So for me, that kind of period of music, it was a reliving of punk in many respects. I know you and I disagree with this. But for me, this was the last shout of rock and roll. It was the kind of acid house days.

Unwashed: Well I don’t think that it ever dies. I think that you see inklings of it everywhere. Because we discussed the other day that is just a natural thing that teenage boys go through, this rebellion thing. And it often comes out as art.

So I was saying, like I saw the same thing going on in dubstep, which will sound ridiculous to people older than me! But all of these scenes have like a kernel of truth in them, and then they get ridiculous and comical, and descend into self parody. But yeah, there is always something real there.

I love that in this chat today, everyone is basically on side with the idea of a lot of rave music is ours! Because months ago, I remember contending with this as an issue going, :

“Well it’s made by White people, for White people, and White people enjoy it.”

There’s a certain angle that is:

“You have to be on drugs to enjoy it!”

You don’t! Loads of people listen to it when they’re not on drugs.

And I like the idea of us claiming these scenes. I have a theory that drum and bass specifically, like most of the “jungleists” are based, because it’s just unignorable in those clubs. If you go to a club with less White people, it’s more dangerous. And they just know that. So that’s kind of why I was using drum and bass in those Groyper videos, because I was like, :

“I got an inkling here, this is not the most woke multi-culti scene, we can have this one.”

And everyone today, was saying like “happy hardcore”, everyone loves happy hardcore. And that’s specifically British! Like, French people don’t get it, German people don’t get it, Dutch people certainly don’t get it. They’ve all got their own strands of hardcore electronic music, which I don’t understand! I cannot get onboard with Dutch hardcore at all! I think is just horrendous noise! But “happy hardcore” is ours. So I mean, it busts this whole sort of degeneracy argument, which I think we’re all fed up of. Like, we all love folk music, but yeah, I think we’re gonna need more than that. So I like that we’ve got a pro-rave section in the chat going on today.

[75:53]

Horus: May I think you’re spot on trying to reclaim these scenes I was gonna say something before that I think there’s some sort of nostalgia rowing angle we can use as well like, because I would see nostalgia on the Left at least for like leftists who a big Institute overi doctrinaire no starter is considered generally a kind of fascistic thing right, or a reactionary, or fascistic thing whereas we don’t really have any fear of nostalgia I think like the idea has been put about by the Left over the last 70, or years that anything that pines for the past is not only reactionary and fascistic, but also idiocy idiocy, because they believe generally in the sort of Whiggish theory of history that things are always proceeding towards the ever better future whereas we don’t really that’s not really part of our thinking I think technology advances but, you know. A lot of things are lost, you know, and have to be refound, or never be found and the Left I think over the 20th century tried to convince us and have it has worked on a lot of people that it’s an illusion to think that things were ever better but as Simon said you haven’t bought any music any new music since like the mid 90s I’m pretty much saying maybe up to the late 90s and I am convinced that’s caused by an objective change music actually became crap by the millennium like pop music became crap it was like a few nuggets left. I don’t think I’ve bought any music made since 2010 anyway and I and the there was genuine brilliance still in the 90s I mean, a lot of my favorite music is from the first off the 90s electronic music in my case the Future Sound of London, or a fixed win orbital and stuff like that and again what we said Nick but basically these were White things they were mostly a lot of them were lefties even thickness, or most of them, but it was White stuff it was White music made, you know, made by YV been enjoyed by White people even I mentioned at all they were sort of a dub group right so, you know, this Caribbean thing even so it was White guys doing it and White people listened to it and there is something in there and you couldn’t awaken, or you can use the nostalgia people have for when music was still good to awaken some degree of racial consciousness I believe us I think you’re absolutely strategically spot on doing that.

Unwashed: Nostalgia has made like making these vile episodes ten times easier, because weird I know the simon doesn’t like me using the phrase counterculture, because I need you can expand on why I shouldn’t be using that phrase.

Simon: I will do.

Unwashed: Cool but we are pushing against something that’s been repressed and like mainstream culture is progressive so it’s all about change and what’s new what’s cutting-edge what’s the latest thing and everyone’s sick of that now, so really all we’ve had to do is go back over the last few decades of like, you know, clips of edgy Brits giving interviews like Johnny Rotten, or just I don’t know something from father Ted it’s all nostalgia and we just build it up and go hey remember this was better than it is now wasn’t it now you’ve got the last leg you don’t have any comedy anymore washed-out is easy.

Horus: We are saying quite clearly it was better at times in the past things are things now are shit it’s not just that every generation thinks that’s a lie whereas things now are crapper than they were 20 years ago in sounds of culture.

Unwashed: And again there’s people that hate all rap and they’re entitled to that opinion but storm Z is an objectively bad rapper.

Horus: I mean, I don’t like it less than I did five years ago I’ve become more of a sort of racialist sits in but like 2pac was a good rap our [80:00] storm Z is not, you know, maybe some people just chuckle of all of rap outs, or whatever but, you know, that isn’t they still an example of things in decline even on the backside, you know,

Jeff: Yeah I just want to say that I agree that the on the electronic music thing on that front I do think that’s overwhelmingly a White thing first of all you have to have electricity for it to work [loud laughter] just kidding okay that’s the first thing, but also we actually have a show called dance squared we have a DJ live DJ set on Saturday nights and he does like techno which house all these genres that I don’t underst Jones a bass some of them I know and, you know, some of them delve deeply into areas that I’m not familiar with vaporwave he does a lot of vaporwave but uh that and he’s definitely our guy DJ boxcar and it’s funny, because we’ve had a little interaction with kind of the vaporwave scene he kind of they were all, you know, when he started becoming a little bit more woke, so to speak, a lot of these people, of course, as we’ve been discussing we’re very much on the side of the spectrum and giving him a hard time and they’ve kind of tagged me in some of these discussions they’ve had on Twitter and it didn’t go well for them I think they were trying to tag me to be like oh he’s associating with this White Art Collective these evil people and really they just they’re like wait a second maybe I shouldn’t tag them, because they’re just giving them more attention and we got some follows from that little exchange and I was like just kind of doing some basic talking points of like which would you be really opposed to a black art collective, or a jewish art collective, you know, and it’s a very reasonable question to ask but it is good to see that we have more people and he’s kind of even got his own group of electronic artists that he’s been working with for a while called the modernity leave and so yeah we that’s definitely much definitely in our sphere I think and I love electronic music I’ve, you know, years ago been out to the clubs and stuff I’m not that old it wasn’t that long ago but, you know, is I definitely enjoy that kind of thing. And I think it’s important that kind of — what you guys were talking about with the pasts anything from the past seemingly being antiquated I think is a good word is they always want it to feel like that’s all over the future is always looking forward everything has to be more technologically advanced, etc. But I think we need to find a way to kind of to create that aesthetic that blends modern technology and kind of futurism and I know their existing bodies have thought on this like I think RKO futurism and this kind of thing that kind of blend that past aesthetic and the value with the future kind of technology and I think it’ll be interesting to see what kind of aesthetics we come up with, in doing that kind of thing and one other thing I was just curious if you guys were fans of Daft Punk at all.

Horus: [words unclear]

Unwashed: Okay our second one was better I think is homework the first one and discovery the second discovery had all the singles yeah, so I thought I’m an encyclopedia over here.

Jeff: I like I thought random access memories was really good I thought that was a really good album personally.

Unwashed: It was I waited ages before listening to that one, because it was really overhyped I like to avoid things like that for about six to eight months, because. I don’t think you get a clear picture it’s really good that album yeah I’ll give you that.

Horus: I think what was the Saturday night oh that’s a jeff: On our show?

Horus: Yeah I just wanna check out.

Jeff: Yeah, so Saturday nights dance squared on our DLive it’s after it’s usually about tits it’s gonna be late really late for you guys it’s like 10:00 p.m. Eastern so it’d be what like a.m. You guys time so that’s probably hard but wait the replays we put up on BitChute but uh and with our main flagship show we actually have like seven, or eight shows now our main show that the first one I started with Saturday night live stream which is every Saturday at 9 p.m. On our DLive and that’s where we like we kind of bring our musicians in and like feature a lot of new music like we’re usually featuring a new at least a couple new artists and a lot of new songs like pretty much every week okay.

Simon: And that’s DLive White Art Collective I mean, if you if any of you follow any of us you’ll find that, or certainly I follow Jeff I follow the White Art Collectives so just look at who I follow and you can follow them and find find out what’s going on. I just want to do before we move on I want to do the one [85:01] and only Entropy that were the one on a superchat that we’ve got so far hint hint nudge nudge.

Unwashed: I’m Paul saying it wasn’t up earlier Simon wait.

Simon: I think it’s back up now Michael yeah, so you roll on roll on up I’ll read them out. And the one we’ve got is from The Thin Red Line great boat bloke who tends uh sends us ten US dollars and says:

“Great stream more creators should seal for the White Art Collective that’s what we’re doing it is very important that we get a pro-White media company so we can start retaking our culture which start to raise funds for this project project.”

I quite agree any comments on this any kind of fundraising initiatives in the future Jeff.

Jeff: Yeah I’m definitely for that 100 percent I think that so kind of what I envision the White Art Collective is a kind of owner of an institution so I definitely encourage people to create more business-oriented like media type companies and I also think we probably are gonna have to build our own platforms too to do that kind of thing so also any like programmers out there and people who have that kind of talent are gonna be very much needed for that kind of thing. But yeah, I mean, we’ve been making a little bit of money on DLive and I’m, you know, trying to figure out how we’re gonna reinvest that back in. But I 100% encourage people who are interested in ya creating like a company for that kind of thing envisioning something like that III had an idea for kind of a kind of like an Amazon like you site for our folk who, you know, it kind of you could get your music there you could get movies there and that kind of thing we definitely need to figure out how we’re gonna monetize that, because another one of the elements of what I’m doing with the White our collective I kind of want to function a little bit as a representative slash kind of a union for artists, because it’s so easy for artists to not get paid and a lot of people just expect all of this stuff for free now, you know, they’re like oh well I’ll just download that song oh we’ll all just download, or just watch it on YouTube, or BitChute and also films they’ll just download them, you know whatever and that’s a big problem for us that people are kind of conditioned into that mindset, because it’s not free for us to make and we’re gonna have to make money if we want to compete with Hollywood if we want to compete with the music industry and we’re gonna need money for projects for the fine arts and, you know, those things are often funded by tax dollars and things so it’s like we’re probably not getting tax dollars anytime soon so where that money’s gonna we’re gonna have to come up with that money somewhere so we need to get clever about how we’re gonna do that and I think to like I don’t expect we’re gonna be having any big daddy, you know, people philanthropist throwing their money at us anytime soon and, or at the very least. I don’t think we should wait around for that I think that’s something I’ve seen for a while but people like, you know what we need just that billionaire who’s gonna give us a bunch of money and.z I don’t think that it hasn’t happened yet I’ve talked to people who, you know, told me hey I’m talking to somebody who might, you know, be interested in what you guys are doing none of that ever came to fruition I think it’s a lot more likely that we’re gonna have to get clever with crowdfunding and people are just gonna have to kind of put there’s a like you said earlier like a lot of people are like well how do I help, you know, doing stuff and volunteering for things. And if someone actually throws out just like what you were saying with that website and the transcriptions and that kind of stuff definitely putting forward your actual Labour putting your shoulder into it and your time and your energy that is a big help also just promoting stuff is a big help and also investing in it, you know, vote with your dollars, so to speak, and actually buy stuff like we got a store we got a White our collective store we got music books magazines shirts, you know, we’re gonna start doing more merchandise I think people like physical objects in this very detached alienated world so we’re gonna probably start doing some more stuff like that, but it is definitely important that we get very serious about how we’re gonna fund these things, because I’m also like I’m already yet I have to work a full-time job to live I’m already at full-time capacity, or I mean, I’m at capacity of what I can do and I often takes me a week, or two to respond to people, you know, that I kind of lose a little bit of that momentum and people’s excitement of getting in contact me with which I hate. But I just I only have so much time so until we figure out how to formalize and professionalize and monetize, you know, we’re going to continue to struggle so we have to get that figured out.

Unwashed: And using the word serious there we have to get serious is really important, because I mean, it’s a big [90:01] problem over on this side is that people ask specious of anyone that asks for money, or even accept money there’s all this charge of grift chiming going on I mean, it’s worth reminding people that, at the end of the day, we’re up against the central banking system the guys that own and print all of the money so it’s a ridiculous thing to say people say to people they shouldn’t be asking for money, but also on top of that if you look at the Left take someone like Amanda Palmer who was a sort of front-runner of crowd funding they get full support there no one Chuck’s anyone down for crowdfunding their own projects no one’s biting at each other’s ankles for this stuff even though they’re the Communists so the lefties like they know how to support each other in our and that’s why they’re there absolutely trouncing the culture war obviously they’ve got the institutional power as well. But there’s just none of this mistrust and sniping and it’s so ridiculous to me when, you know, we don’t own the money that’s the other side.

Simon: On the subject of money we’ve got a second superchat the wonderful Penguins in the diorama sends 25 US dollars and says:

“Number two!”

So that’s the second one thanks very much I want to go back to a point of contention that you and I have you mention it there, the word counterculture you and I disagree on this counterculture means against culture and I’m pretty convinced that back in the 60s the whole counter it mean it’s all disheveled people very much like those that they all look like the merely viral guys they had that kind of aesthetic back in the 60s and it’s not alternative culture it’s against culture and another point you made in one of our Telegram groups was Mick Jones, (((tiny hat))) Mike Jones could he have been responsible for some of the leftist message within that within the clash within the.z And if you look into punk both in Britain in the UK you look back at lots of the count country culture groups of the sixties and it all was very cool people like Lou Reed there’s a lot of tiny hat influence there and I kind of wonder if it wasn’t deliberately subversive which is its difficult to find a better word, because it’s become cool. But I think we need to divorce ourselves from it.

Horus: Did he I think so I know Mick Jones definitely.

Simon: Did he?

Horus: I think so.

Simon: I know Mike Jones definitely did and lost lots of the others I’m sure I reckon Malcolm McLaren was a tiny hat as well and horus: McLaren was McLaren has partial jewish ancestry yeah.

Unwashed: The that I mean, the Mick Jones one I only brought it up to you, because people keep tracking that one at me I’m fairly positive about the clash and they go well, you know, about Mick Jones.

Simon: I’m a big fan.

Unwashed: Yeah I mean, as far as I’m concerned this doesn’t affect anything. But then you look at him penning White riot and you just think okay let’s think about this for a second the one I’ve had to hire earth about this the one that really made me meet sit up and go oh god was this record label called Fat Wreck chords which is run by Fat Mike of NOFX who is of the Levantine tribe and it’s very interesting, because I was super into this label in my teens and they were aggressively anti-war very, very much against the invasion of Iraq and all of that stuff but very anti-racist i.e., anti-White. And when you just pick apart the ideology and what records are being released it’s like okay this was supposed to be edgy and counterculture and that ultimately it’s pushing all the same stuff ultimately it’s pushing less White people. And that was run by some Hebrew folks. So that was quite something to notice and that’s why I was sort of chucking out the thing about the clash with regards the counterculture thing though I do think the mainstream culture is, you know, horribly degenerate and multicultural and everything that.

Simon: It is now but it wasn’t back up just watch this shit this shadows documentary remember it wasn’t back in those days.

Unwashed: Hmm no I just mean I thought that the phrase counterculture means as he said against culture but the culture that we have now is everything that we want to push against I mean, it’s not our culture that’s what we’re actually fighting for our culture.

Simon: It’s bullshit.

Unwashed: What’s being supplied to us.

Simon: Yes I think so [95:01]

Unwashed: I’ll certainly give you that and.z But I think what we are doing is its like I still consider it kicking against that so I call it counter cultural but you’re saying it’s not even culture so how can you counter it which is a pretty good argument.

Jeff: That’s an interesting discussion for sure I’ve thought about that as well I mean, when I think counter culture I think Woodstock that’s like one of the first thing that comes to my mind is something like that and I do think we have to be careful and we’re having a lot of these kind of discussions in within the White Art Collective, of course, about, you know, kind of the language we use and how we frame things, because we have to try to shift the paradigm so I think those instances where well not just kind of shift it we need to have a massive shift and help facilitate that so I think that in some ways we can kind of like take terms back and redefine them and then other things, you know, maybe we should kind of stay away from counterculture to me kind of I kind of think of the term all right I was never a fan of that term I know that was a more American thing, but it did definitely went across the pond as well to some extent and it I was always thinking like what other kind of concepts are I’ve ever been like considered alternative, or kind of been labeled that way and one of them was like alternative lifestyle of the gays, you know, like that that was one thing and now it’s a big no-no to say it that way now it’s just completely accepted in mainstream and the other thing was alternative music and, of course, that also became popular in mainstream and then it lost the alternative people still some radio stations still say alternative and like what is that that what does that mean that’s been mainstream for like over twenty years but uh I think it is interesting to think about those things and consider it personally I wouldn’t use the term counterculture just, because yeah it does it does have a little bit of the leftist taint on it.

Simon: One of the things that we’re talking about in this stream that Nick and I did with semia go there a couple of weeks ago I can’t remember how semi ago actually phrased it but we ought to be out be creating what was it Nick we ought to be creating art that produces the kind of people we wants isn’t once want in our society was that was that his point?

Unwashed: It was pretty down closer yeah we should be creating art that produces the type of people that we want in society. I think he had it down to a snappy.

Simon: Yeah he does he very he’s very snappy isn’t he’s got everything off pat.

Unwashed: Yeah.

Simon: And this kind of lettuce and he was talking about flamenco and traditional music and I kind of had a road to Damascus moment throughout their stream I’ll throw out there again but and it comes back to my counterculture point that since the fifties the whole promotion of teenage rebellion it kind of overtook rock and roll and that was essentially of subversive whereas if you look at and I think this forms part of our movement I think we need to forget the teenage rebellion music. I don’t think it’s going to come back I think the industry has taken it over even though the industry introduces the industry now controls it and he was talking in the context of flamenco and it got got me thinking about much more incorporating young people into a multi-generational art community and encouraging young people to go through an apprenticeship and perhaps going through initiation right that that gives them the right as in flamenco to form part of the musical art whatever community and I think teen music is probably a thing of the past I know I’m coming out on a limb there, but part of the ethos of our movement is bringing the generations back together what better way to do it with is than with, in art and music.

Unwashed: I thought there were great conclusions from that discussion considering we had no idea where we were going and actually I’ve sat on those sort of conclusions from the end of that one since we chatted about it. And I think that you’re right that’s the way that we rebel is by reintroducing multi-generational sort of contact and then teaching like a father teaching this on how to play an instrument because, as you say, all of our subcultures all of our counterculture has been based on the opposite of that [100:00] it’s been based on rejecting your father and not learning from them so hearing Sammy agog talk about flamenco was fascinating, because it’s like yes that’s exactly what we want and yeah this teenage thing has got so out of control I’m sure you guys watched the debacle between Harry and those two the very nearly viral guys like they’re still teenagers and they’re nearly 40 and that’s what we need to reject I think.

Jeff: Yeah, I think I’ve thought a lot about the multi-generational element of that and how it relates to art and culture and I think you’re very much onto something there as far as there’s always been this appeal to the trends always following the teenage perspective and what kids think is cool, so to speak, and I personally think cool is like this Judeo African largely corporate-controlled concept where you have people jumping from one foot to the other following these fads really mostly for the purposes of just making money and maximizing it and then once that fad isn’t cool anymore then they move on to the next thing and everybody forgets about that last thing and then they come around in a cycle you’ll get made fun of for, you know, wearing a certain type of clothing, or whatever. But then it becomes cool again oh that whole thing is totally absurd to me and I think we have to break out of that mentality and I do see the right-wing does the dissident Right kind of falls into that somewhat I called it right-wing hipsterism too where you kind of create this very, very niche subculture out of a desire to want to belong so you create all this cryptic language and this aesthetic and people dress a certain way and people have certain types of haircuts and but and then they get comfortable being in that little segmented community, because that’s a large part of what they were seeking but what we need to do is appeal to a broader group of people and not just not just young men who are frustrated in angsty, you know, and that’s so that’s something I’ve thought a lot about we try to have a really good balance of masculine and feminine energy that’s a lot of what I think about when I’m curating and I also think about, you know, some stuff that is mostly overwhelmingly being family-friendly not in a ham-fisted hallmark kind of way but just to where things are, you know, there’s more of a value of purity and innocence you don’t, you know, to kind of remove that cynicism and nihilism and obviously, you know, kind of anything that’s too much an adult subject for children, of course, there’s a time and a place for that. But I think a lot of what’s happened definitely to American society and it seems like the West in general just this kind of business big corporations this hyper monopoly leading everything and everyone thinks in marketing terms so they’re constantly trying to break down groups of people into their segments as consumers it’s like let’s break down here’s let’s market this at teen kids so they’re gonna live in their own world and culture by itself over here listening to this and they’re gonna have a hard time relating to their parents who are they’re having this marketed at them they listen to this kind of music they watch these kind of shows and read these magazines and you see this huge gap where we’re having people having a really hard time relating to each other, you know, men and women can’t maintain the relationships and parents and kids don’t understand each other, you know, there was a long time I felt a huge gap between my parents like they lived a completely different in a completely different world than I did, you know. And. This is a really modern thing the world is not supposed to change this fast but it is so we have to figure out how to adapt to that and.z I don’t think that’s even just, you know, communist, or Marxist, or whatever it’s also just what the modern world there’s just an explosion of technology and things that’s changed the way we live and think so fast that we’re still kind of our heads are still spending. But yeah, just to that point is just we I think we really have to be mindful of exactly what Simon was saying there is that we need to intentionally while still making great art and culture we need to try to do things that bring people back together multi-generationally men and women, etc., in a healthy positive way families and to one more point on that I actually wrote a booklet called how to organize a traditional dance which is over on White date net it’s also on Amazon if you want a physical copy, or you can get a digital, but it’s also on White people’s press but so the idea there is like, you know, we actually speaking of the culture and things I kind of line out like, you know, here’s what the things you need to think about organizing an event like this you gotta [105:01] have you gotta have good music you got to know what the Dancing’s gonna be someone’s got to know how to do the dance, you know, it’s seemingly kind of obvious things but trying to give the people the tools to create something like that so that you can bring people back together and one of the elements of that is making sure that it’s multi-generational friendly.

Simon: Okay and one more another superchat from the lovely Lucy Brown who sends ten US dollars you’re your good friend Lucy brown and collaborator on viol fantastic work there Lucy:

“If someone has 50,000 subscribers and each subscriber paid one pound a month they’d have freedom to create and make a living. Thoughts?”

That would be heaven it was my immediate response anybody else.

Unwashed: It does look a little bit ridiculous when you look at the numbers that we’re chucking in, because like I’m getting used to howdy live works and I’m getting great contributions but it’s from like a handful of people. And I think it’s a really important point that one pound a month and then a whole bunch of us could not have to worry about working ever again!

Simon: I mean, the two contributions so far on super chance The Thin Red Line and in a diorama there’s various other. But I have what six, seven, eight, nine possibly regular contributors, you know, I know it’s free people are happy to listen but, you know, a couple of dollars every now and again. I think all of us put in hours and hours of effort into this what you see on these streams you don’t know how much work goes in and in the background it’s continual yeah we need more help.

Horus: But money as well right. But if you do like kick in a little contribution you’re gonna get more of what you enjoy, you know, the money will generally go to war as your village up to you’re donating to them if you donate to the things that you value you’re gonna generally increase the Malby that’s produced and I hope, you know, the quality of this helmet you’re gonna get more of it. I mean, if I could work full-time like I know that this certain core of people you love my videos like, you know, every time I release anyone immediately they’re like oh wait what’s this which is brilliant in and of itself like — it’s really one who feels like that if you contribute if you quit here and there I’ll do more and you love that feeling even more often I don’t really want to be on record saying like give us money but like I do agree with the general idea that like it’s a good right there it helps the movement, you know, just, you know, we’re moving with a great shortage of cash.

Unwashed: Well there’s two elements to what you say in there one was like I remember the week when you got your first donation, because I think I got mine a similar time and we were both on this stream together and we were both absolutely buzzing and it’s not enough money to like put you on easy street it doesn’t mean your money worries are out the window it literally just gives you that boost from someone who’s what I’m doing.

Horus: Does someone someone message me asking me how can I donate, you know, well if you insist, you know, and then yeah I felt what I heard someone actually wants someone telling me make more like this what you’re doing is good make more of it and that’s good that’s very encouraging.

Unwashed: And vote we all know that a vote is a total waste of time and you have to vote with your with your dollar so a percentage of any nationalist income should probably be going to nationalism right if you’re not doing anything else.

Jeff: A tithe, if you will, know it just kidding no but like yeah this goes to what we were saying earlier and I totally agreed that the thing is and this isn’t anybody’s fault but just in the Internet age everyone’s had the ability to go out and create their own show everybody can basically be their own TV station, you know, on their YouTube channel and it’s awesome but it’s also, you know, that gets everyone kind of competing to the bottom in a way for how willing, they are how much they’re were willing to give away for free I think we content creators are going to have to kind of form a collective interest here that we can’t just hand it all away for free forever if we want this to get off the ground we’re going to have to monetize and I think at some point we’ll probably I see people have some good models, you know, redeye says I think an effective model towards like this part is out here this powered is behind this and maybe at some point we might even get in May this is probably not gonna be popular but we might have to get a little bit more hard about it, than that and be like look if you want this [110:00] content you got to pay for it you can’t tell me that most people who watch this stuff couldn’t pay five to ten dollars a month E, or even if it was less than that two, or three bucks a month you telling me that you couldn’t sacrifice, or that, or sacrifice something you bought at the store, or whatever to support this, because that little bit if you had those 50,000 people giving just a little bit it would be massive and the other part of that, is that I also the donation model is just too inconsistent to build institutions off of we’ve been getting a decent amount of little, you know, again like Nick said it’s not like I’m over here like a rolling like Scrooge McDuck in money and coins, or whatever not even close but it’s like okay we had no budget now we have a little bit of a budget that’s something that’s, you know, it’s going in the right direction clearly more people are getting more comfortable with the idea maybe it’s the structure of DLive. But I don’t want to get dependent on that either, because we’ve already had a kind of a phantom copyright strike that I think was probably a targeted thing over there so it was just a six hour time out but we can’t depend on these platforms owned by other people we need to figure that out fundamentally for ourselves from the ground up and build our own structures and infrastructure and the only way to do that is if we get consistent funding so we’ll have to get off of just donation based funding if we really want to move forward.

Unwashed: You make a really important point about the about the sort of rush to the bottom there, because that destroyed my old industry when I started DJing a set of technics and a mixer and that set me back about grand and then within two, or three years you could get a controller for one hundred and fifty quid and literally anyone could do it and the wages just tanked, because everyone was going oh well you don’t need to pay me I’ll just do it and this goes for music across the board it’s not really it’s not a problem that’s unique to us as right-wing musicians but art across the board is completely devalued. So yeah, it’s just busting into people’s heads the idea yeah you can’t get something for nothing I’m sure the four of us are all in the same boat where it’s like yeah this took man hours to do and we with people looking at it saying it should be free there’s no leg to stand on there.

Horus: I would say to those who are principally opposed to donations and stuff who think it’s corrupting whether whoever I’ve said this once before but make your case explicit like right out your case and send it and, you know, publicize it to everyone and say what is it that you dread, or your pose, or you find disgusting about people being funded, because that will help us, you know, but maybe there’s some sense in there, you know, like there are some dumbasses you just well are they some people’s just see anything that involves money is jewish, or like, or they just see it as light as soon as you start learning money you’ll become corrupt, or you will start only serving those who donate yourself but can someone just make that cake, because then I’ll begin to understand, you know what’s the sensible side of that opposition what’s the, because it might be something we can learn from it as well, you know, because there will be there will be ways of funding they probably do spoil a movement, you know. But if we just suddenly it’s like Haim Saban, or someone, or like George Soros just suddenly came in and say apart from, you know, we go over a suspicion of it like why is he suddenly funding us it probably would be to ruin us and that that there can be corrupting influences of money. But I would just say, you know, I think we all agree that some great degree of funding is this well not everyone but we here, you know, we fallen low people do agree that some greater degree of funding is needed okay.

Simon: I’m gonna get in here before Jeff, or anybody else does, because I don’t want this tree to finish on shilling just as a point of principle and we’re, you know, we got six minutes to go I’m sorry Jeff if you had something to say on that. But. I mean, let’s move it back to, because it essentially we are activists and we do this, or I certainly do this out of love and, because I think it’s important is we’re making important contributions so on that note what are the immediate aims of objectives of the White Art Collective first Jeff and Vile Media second.

Jeff: Well our goals in the near term, or to continue to bring artists together so that they can collaborate so that they have a community of like-minded people and so that they can feed off of that creative energy and it inspires people who either were creating before and we’re never able to find a home, or perhaps people who never have really created and have always maybe had a creative penchant but never did it [115:02], because they were just they didn’t see the incentive they’re like yeah no one wants to hear what I have to say, you know, they sense that so we want to keep doing that and we want to keep trying to professionalize what we’re doing and kind of formalize it and that’s kind of a tricky situation to do that and it’s kind of we’re doing it very organically I think we’re doing it in the right way the same way that we would create a piece of art, you know, we’re seeing what works and I listen to people especially I talked to the core whack pack as we call it every day we’re talking about stuff we’re talking about our what our plans are for the future we’re working on quite a few shows that we’re doing we’ve got one we’re really excited about called our culture we had chimeras on there recently which was really a big gift for us and he had a lot of fascinating things to talk about so one of our goals is where we’re doing exactly this to what we’re doing on this show is that we’re trying to build a bridge out into the community and to across the pond across the euro sphere across different factions of thought also from the cultural side to the political side and eventually I hope we’ll build a bridge to like a more economic wing where people are more focused on, you know how do we make ourselves independent financially, you know, not that no more shilling. But yeah, just, you know, these are all important areas that I think we need to think about and yeah we’re gonna keep doing big projects like I said we’re gonna do the spooky short film contest and one of these days we’re going to do a whack fest we’re going to have a real in real life big festival and we’re gonna invite all of our friends and allies from all around the world to come and join us and we’re gonna have live music and we’re gonna have people’s oral poetry and paintings and films and it’s gonna be awesome so that’s a long-term goal I wanted to maybe do it this year in a small version but we, you know, this whole pandemic thing kind of put a kibosh on that. But yeah, we’re just going to keep our shoulder to the plow keep doing what we’re doing. And if anybody is interested in getting in contact any artists, or allies, or just any comments in general contact that White our collective comm and I’m on Twitter Gab our DLive channels where we stream and also our replays around BitChute thank you guys for having me so much I appreciate it’s great to finally get to speak with all of you it’s been a pleasure.

Simon: Fantastic before we move on to Nick I just want we’ve got a few more superchats. So let’s get them done penguins in a diorama another $25 thank you very, very much. And he says:

“Entropy works. Drinks all round.”

Picking gas 1972, three US dollars:

“Contribution with love from the wilderness.”

Thank you very much mate.

Aldous Asghar 5gb pounds:

“It seems to me that large amounts of parents seem to stop passing on the culture in a meaningful way what can we do to reverse this at least is true for me and I’m 29.”

Well I think we’ve discussed this already what I mean, we’re working at it I think we need to restructure the way we look at art and personally here on the right we need to think more intergenerationally and to close off Nick anything any round rounding off comments and summarizing comments.

Unwashed: That’s been a very enjoyable stream I think that there needs to be more of this more focus on this cultural side I think it needs a real real kick up the ass and vile is really just a way of venting frustration like I know Horus and Geoff’s focused on we need to return to sort of loveliness I’m really fueled by anger above all else so if there’s something that’s seriously pissed you off about our modern world then get the rage on the page and send it through to our contact form at file media don’t code it UK quickly with regards to lockdown like I do think if this hadn’t happened then we’d be well on the way to having events and doing stuff I don’t know that I’d be throwing gigs by this point but we’d Elise be in the pub and it did its such a shame it feels like it’s such a roadblock but we’ve all had to deal with here. But I think when it if it finally gets loosened then we’re gonna be so raring to go. So I’m really excited for when I get to have human contact with people again but this has been wonderful we should do it again.

Simon: Quick final thought Horus.

Horus: Doing great work and I’m gonna start paying more attention to what [120:00] collective, because I’m not too well-versed yet. So I’m looking forward to listen to the Saturday night show you mentioned Jeff I love vile every week especially on its based on Nathan body which I think was classic well not based on. But I mean, partly inspired well yeah. And if you want another playlist I’ve got one in mind there may be other consent through as an article as well.

Unwashed: Do it! Absolutely! Yes all any and all submissions are great, because because, you know, if I run out of submissions and I to write something and that’s an effort.

Simon: Okay yeah well thanks everyone for being here many thanks for Jeff Jeff for being here I think it’s been really interesting I think it’s the start of a beautiful friendship there are many other people on the White Hawk collective who I mean, touch with as I said, before the political wings and the cultural wings need to come in to come together we’re all in this together and yeah we need to be communicating with each other and we need to be united. I think this is the start of it is where it’s not the start of it but. This is a another step along the path and we’re going to do lots more in the future thanks Jeff thanks Nick. Thanks Horus for being here, and thank you to the audience. And we also we’ll see you next week. Have a wonderful night and look after yourselves.

Unwashed: Heil wack pack.

Jeff: Thanks!

[121:26]

END

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Version 3: Jun 17, 2020. 15 more minutes (60 – 75 mins) proofed by Dawn. Transcript fully proofed = 35/121 mins.

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Simon Harris – EF 22 – Gavin Boby on Mosque-busting and the Breakdown of Society – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

admin — Fri, 15 May 2020 13:03:19 +0000

[Simon Harris and Horus talk with Gavin Boby, who has been using his legal skills to oppose the building of mosques in England. Boby subscribes to the Counter Jihadist, philo-semitic ideology that sees jews as a positive force in Western society, while seeing Muslims and other non-Whites as a negative.

Needless to say Boby’s views on organized jewry are considered downright wrong, subversive, among many White nationalists!

Simon and Horus, attempt to find common ground in regard to how to deal with the invaders, especially the Muslim invaders, that have been allowed into Britain by the traitor political class (that governs on behalf of orgjew).

— KATANA]

>(NOTE: This transcript has only been partially fully proofed (first 15/110 mins). Please volunteer some time and help complete the transcript. Instructions are given below. Doing even just a couple of minutes is helpful — thanks!)<<<

Contributors, so far:

_____________

European Freedom #22

Gavin Boby

On Mosque-busting and the

Breakdown of Society

Apr 28, 2020

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Published on Apr 28, 2020

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TRANSCRIPT

(120:11 mins)

[00:00]

Simon: Okay, hello everyone. We’re live once again this evening with European Freedom livestream 22. I didn’t know whether to call it 21b, or 22. I’ll call it 22.

And we’ve got Gavin Boby here. And it’s really great to have Gavin back. Gavin, you and I spoke for the first time in September, October, 2017, I think it was. And then we had another stream a little while after. And in many respects what we could do today is we could run over some of that background.

But I think, as I was saying to Chris Dangerfield just a few minutes ago, what interests us particularly at the moment is not just the mosque-busting, it’s really the strategy for facing the future we’ve got at the moment. Anyway.

Gavin Boby: Yeah.

Simon: How are you my friend?

Gavin Boby: Very well, thank you! Very well. What’s great is suddenly I don’t know if when I was on your stream last I was complaining and moaning in you about how I wasn’t getting much, people weren’t being as supportive as they should be about what I was doing. That has changed! People suddenly have an interest and they’re keen to do something. They came to support it. And that it’s just fantastic! It’s so much better, makes everything so much easier, morale, and just the ability to take on the cases. To go after these places and yeah it’s not just about moss busting it’s not just about disliking Muslims, Muslims are bad, it’s we are good. We want to survive.

Simon: Yeah I mean, Chris said that as a result of your stream with him and then later the one with Jake’s and I hope this continues, that you’ve heard an increase in the very necessary funding. Unfortunately folks Gavin I have put this together, or partly mainly through a fault of mine. I’ve just got to switch that stream off. So I haven’t had a chance to put the links in. Obviously when we finish this stream I’ll put all the necessary links to Gavin’s contact in the description box, and spread around social media. You really ought to be contributing to the stellar work that Gavin does. Can you give us a little bit of an outline of what you do in case people don’t already know?

Gavin Boby: Well yes. And I’m very flattered that people refer to me as the “mosque buster”! That’s a very flattering nickname that people give me. I stopped, I help local neighborhoods stop planning permissions for mosques getting planning permission. So if there’s a planning application for a mosque in your area and you want to resist it then I’ll help you resist it. And it’s probably necessary probably going to suffer if you don’t. Even if you resisting you lose, you’ll get up better if you’ve put up a bit of a fight. That’s what I do. So that’s, I think, how you knew me initially. I have views about what’s going to happen to Western society. How we reverse the problems that we’re in. We’re in pretty deep problems, and they’ve got to be reversed! And that’s not going to be easy. But. I think it will be easy, but it could go wrong.

Simon: Okay. Before we continue I know we’ve talked about this on email. There’s a slight elephant in the room that we need to discuss. So I’m completely willing to, I’m happy to discuss. I think that I have great respect for you. I think the feeling is mutual and yeah, so if we can have a gentlemen disagreements, or meeting of minds, I don’t know. But can you can you introduce the slight disagreement that we had a couple of years ago?

Gavin Boby: Yes. The disagreement is over the perception of the influence that jewish people have. In general. I don’t think, my view, if I set up my view and we can talk to and fro about it. And my view is that I think it is, at best, a blind alley for us. At worst actually a dead rabbit hole! I think you’ve referred to as being a bit of a rabbit hole. I think that’s probably a good a good image for it.

But also think it’s some unjust, again at best unjust, and potentially very cruel! I think it can be jew hating and jew bashing as I’ll call it, ends up, it has a very low flash point. It quickly ends up in a pile of dead jewish bodies. And. I don’t think there is any upside to it. I think it is in general a way to avoid looking at where the problems come from, which is from ourselves.

[05:02]

That’s where our current problems, our current problems don’t come from jews, don’t come from jewish influence! They come from ourselves! But I think it’s possible to pick this apart in detail at the things that jews, jewish people are blamed for.z Things like either the Frankfurt School and such. I just don’t think it is the influence that the people say is. Personally I think the jewish people are a beneficial influence. A good influence. If anything a slightly reinforcing influence on Western civilization. Which I realize might provoke some people to hear.

Simon: I mean, I do have a slightly different view, as we were saying before the stream. And as I’ve said to many other people. When you’ve been on the receiving end of an attack it’s very, very difficult. And when my relationship was Brian of London broke down, this did happen. And I also said on the previous stream that I suffered briefly from what I often refused it refer to as the “JQ derangement syndrome”!

Because what tends to happen, is that you, because you’ve often when you come to what appears to be a great revelation then all of a sudden for a very short period of time until you’ve integrated it into your general worldview it seems to be the explanation for everything. I want to state very clearly and I think probably we do have a difference of opinion.

I do think that jewish people are over represented in positions of power, both on the Left and right, and they do tend to be have an ethnocentric view of jewish people. They tend to stick together in a way to a much greater extent than we Gentiles do. And this is why I think you’re right to say in part the problem is with us. What I would like us to do is to develop a sense of community, of collectivization, quite similar to what the jewish people are capable of doing. I also think that communism, historical events that occurred at the start of the century such as the Bolshevik Revolution and the Frankfurt School they did have an over-representation of jews. But the current problems we’re facing, I also concur with you that primarily our own decadence, our own degradation, to a certain extent. What we need to do is recuperate our own moral values and our sense of ourselves. I think we probably do differ on to a certain extent in certain aspects.

Gavin Boby: Yes. Yes. I think I would agree with you. I would say the jewish people are disproportionately represented in senior positions. I would say that’s, because jewish people I would say are, in general, disproportionately successful, or able. I would go along with the view that European jews, Ashkenazi jews have in general higher IQs. The figure that I’ve heard is about one standard deviation higher than a Western European. A Western European would have an IQ of about a 100 and the European jew, an Ashkenazi jewish guy, would have an IQ of about 114, 115. And on top of that I would see a tendency towards things like stable family structures, and education effort, work ethic, probably a self-confident morality. Not a moral tradition, I’m not jewish, it’s not my moral tradition, but it’s a self-confident, an ethical base.

All of those things I think are very useful if you want to achieve something, if you want to accomplish something. Now I think that probably I would say, in general, that probably means that those things, I mean, the jewish people will be successful at what they do. So for instance if I had to have an operation I found out I had a jewish surgeon operating on me, I’d be really relieved, I’ll breathe a sigh of relief.

But maybe that’s a racist prejudice, or pro-semitic prejudice. And I think that is, if I’m right on that, I think that explains how people can get a crossed-wire about jewish people and jewish influence. Because if people are successful and accomplish things, you notice them, they become noticeable. And that then makes it very easy for people to do what I think some people in Patriotic Alternative will do, which is to make the mistake, a historic mistake that is made in respect of jews. And that is to say:

“This person is jewish! Look at that person! That person that person jewish! They’re prominent in this and this, therefore there is something jewish about this. Because jewish individuals get noticed.

[10:38]

And is that people fall for, I think the two mistakes that people make which are first of all. what I call the:

“Is he? Isn’t he?”

Game. That is, is this person jewish, isn’t he? Therefore he’s representative of other jews, which is not the case.

And secondly, singling out jewish people for criticism for doing what non-jews do just as much of so if I give two examples. The first example I’d give of this happening of that process. In World War One, in think in 2016 [1916] German politicians, they were convinced, because they saw jewish businessman perhaps running munitions factories, or uniform factories, or supply companies, not going to the front. And they were convinced jewish men we’re not pulling their weight at the battlefront.

And to prove it they said we’re gonna get a jewish census done to prove this. When that census came back it showed that jewish people were volunteering, or going to war at about twice the rate of non-jewish Germans. And eighty percent were in battlefront roles with bullets flying past. Which I think was nearly twice as much as was true for the German army in general. And these German politicians, they were so convinced that the survey must be wrong, they suppressed it, but allowed some massage, or false data to get leaked to the press.

And that was, you could say that these were raging anti-semites. My guess is they probably saw well this “he’s a jew! He’s a jew! He’s a jew!” and said that means jews are doing this. And not take into account that maybe jewish people will tend to be disproportionately successful, clearly is that a problem? I don’t think that’s a problem.

That’s the first example. It was wrong, it was just flat wrong then. And the tragedy of it was that is often seen as the source of this the split between Germany and German jews. It sort of started, some historians say, that’s where when it started.

The other example I give you is the Frankfurt School. From what I’ve researched, that the little research that I’ve done on Wikipedia and tooled around on Google. I would say there were lots of jewish academics and thinkers in the Frankfurt School. But the Frankfurt School was one of many slow-motion socialists organizations it was trivial! It was pathetic, if you compare it to the Fabian’s.

The Fabian’s are massively successful, very English. It appears pretty much, from what I can tell, to have been a “jew free zone”! I think the only guy who appears of any correspondence with them was a fellow called Harold Laski. I suspect, I speculate he might have just got frozen out. Really, the Fabians were incredibly English! I think, I probably would have loved it, would have fit right in! I would have loved to gone to one of their country house weekends, with all these tough, clipped, sort of humorous, slightly Bohemian individuals. It would have been great! I’d have loved it! But there were no jews involved!

And just you know, that the Fabian School, … Fabian was a [Roman] general. He said:

“I achieve victory through slow motion methods. Slow marches. That’s how I achieve victory.”

Fabians saw revolution hadn’t come, we will achieve socialism slowly. Their logo was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Every leader of the Labour Party has been a member of the Fabian Society. Tory cabinet ministers have been members of the Fabian society. There are probably not many Labour MPs are not members of the Fabian Society. It there ever were an organization that whispers in Prime Minister’s ears, it is the Fabian Society.

Now, if that was made up of jewish people, it would, I can just hear what people would say. But it’s not! It’s so English, incredibly English!

[15:02]

You know, the Italian Marxist again they sought revolution come we want to go for cultural Marxism cultural Marxism that phrase came from grounding the Italian Marx’s appear to have consisted of Italians from the provinces and, rather than from very Catholic backgrounds from what I can tell again no jewish people involved in them, or you look at that phrase the long march through the institutions that came from the German students movement in the late sixties. The German students movement is pretty much defined as being made up of German students who were born between 1940 and 1945. Now there weren’t many German students born in nineteen between 40 and 45 for obvious reasons and in rudi dutschke the leader he came up with that phrase the long march through the institution’s you look at the postmodernist there were jewish post modernist I think Derrida was one of the leading lights but most of them appear to have been French perhaps Rhenish, or Eastern Germans again it took on its own ethnic characteristics Fabian the Fabian Society was very English the ground is the Italian Marx is from Italian and the postmodern is very French Precog feel very elegant looking at culture sticking ray-ban sunglasses on the Statue of David as a that is cultural Marxism undermining again much more influential than the Frankfurt School I would guess if you stop people in the streets and said who are the post modernists they’ll know if you say who are the Franklin school probably as an economics called something to do with Frankfurt banks, or you might assume if something to do with sausages okay they were if you say whose grandsheikh people will know, or the Fabian’s people might know the Frankfurt school I had to look it up I’m not aware of having ever been influenced in any way by the Frankfurt School. And I think that is again that’s an example I’m not trying to say the Frankfurt School didn’t contain a lot of it seems to me that it did contain hot jewish thinkers in it what I’m saying is it is unfair it is unjust and potentially really cruel to single out jews for doing what non jews do moral and in those times in terms of culture and slow motion Marxism non-jews do far more of it and far more effectively it’s just unfair it’s a blind alley to say okay you get rid of the Frankfurt School you won’t stop all those other schools you won’t stop the fading society dominating the Labour party the Labour politicians so know what those are the examples are given figure me I’m not getting air rated at you I dislike the I find it unfair I find unjust that’s why I’m if I’m getting a bit Sun I under the collar about.

Simon: Yes I take the points the frankly. And I think it’s an important point to make that it’s not only jews the Frankfurt School definitely what and some of the big names of the Frankfurt School is its definitely jewish thinking Adorno hoc I’m mark Uzi Eric from Reich Villa is it vill hammerite Reich and it’s the combination of two jewish ideologies Marxism and you we can argue tweet with Chris we just argued a little bit about the jewishness of Marxism I don’t really want to go there and Freudianism. But I think you are correct in pointing out and as I said, earlier once you get out of the JQ derangement syndrome you begin to look at the world and see it see it a little bit more broadly as we are talking about before the stream increasingly coming to think that some of the important roles in society are a result of the system often they’re often I think four out of the last five presidents the Federal Reserve have been jews. But the current one isn’t it is a Gentile and well any person that occupies that role has to occupy that role irrespective of their ethnicity.

Gavin Boby: Yes what you could sell the other side is named the head of any central bank right now it was jewish Jerome Powell in the States I began his Carney still head of the Bank of England, I think he’s just about to leave you have the guard head of the IMF it was and the Pollack walk the policies have got worse I mean, all of the mmm massive money printing has happened you haven’t needed jews too to get that going it just it strikes me as a little unfair I think [20:01] the one the other one this were the other two arrays Dharam the Bolshevik Revolution from again from my reading of history they were quite a few jewish people revolutionaries.

Simon: Four out of seven of the original the first Politburo.

Gavin Boby: Yeah involved originally, but they quickly seem to have got really sick of it so by the end of Lenin’s rule a lot of them were drawing back and by the time styling got into power very few but by the end of starlings rule Starling was saying the reverse he was saying to himself he was very really outright anti-semitic I think Golda Meir visited Moscow and fifty thousand jewish people turned out to welcome her and he said these damn jews I can’t swallow them I can’t spit them out and he created what looks suspiciously like a southern Siberian ghetto to ship all the jews to and killed off and killed off all his jewish doctors and his issue seems to be these jews will not fit in with Bolshevism they will not fit in. So I’m gonna give it to them and luckily he died just before you got on with her so it’s I think I can understand I think I can I think Trotsky was a nasty real nasty son of a bitch probably the only guy I think you could have been worse than Starling, which is a bit like saying there’s a temperature worth lower than absolute zero ri why can I think it’s forgivable that a lot of jewish thinkers a lot of jewish activists coming out of the pogroms and the discrimination of Czarist Russia we use just as a rather big for the right to breathe some of the time but they would be attracted to Marxism and see. This is a way of solving anti-semitism and it’s also where the way of solving through that lens we can see so that will benefit the whole of humankind by getting rid of the class war and create creating a utopia for everyone I can see how people would think that I can see how intelligent people would have the means to dismiss contrary evidence so, or maybe we’ll be able to say as a meta crap no rubbish but smart intelligent educated thinkers could rationalize away all the country evidence so I think there’s. I don’t think it’s quite the way say I think Mark Collett I think he talks about that quite a bit and I think that’s unfair given the way history panned out there, the thing with Freud and why when I could talk about the supposed jewish influence on Freudianism we’re queer either jewish Freud was conscious of that which is why he took on young as a prototype partly, because you young wasn’t jewish but how much harm has been done by that I remember when my mum died I went he spoke to someone and we were when I was talking to this person wasn’t jewish, or not jewish but the model was the psychotherapeutic model where you go you said Danny you talk to someone in and you talk to some that apparently was the psychotherapeutic model established by Freud I’m not aware I was undermining Western civilization by doing that quite the reverse.

Simon: I mean, and I mean, my degrees I’m not a fan of I think the Oedipus complex and that there are various things about Freud that I find very, very subversive. But to a certain extent I’ll be honest with you I accept many of your points I think the standard version of what is known as the JQ is over simplistic I agree with you that the Fabian’s many, many non-jews, or non jews are as involved in the destruction of the West as jews Oh I think we’re gonna have to agree to disagree on certain aspects I kind of really don’t want to get back there was 13th century, because. I don’t think it. I don’t think it’s gonna gonna lead the conversation was it positively I-Iing I accept that that people tend to over simplify the jewish Question but one of the reasons why it’s interesting to talk about is, because it is a question I would prefer to consider it a question, rather than a problem there was a jewish that there’s a German Texas there’s often translated as the jewish [25:00] problem if you actually look at the original translation in German it should be the jewish Question. I think the question is its acceptable to ask the question tarring people with the same brush always is probably an over simplistic idea.

Gavin Boby: Well that will let will that is that acceptable together yeah you don’t have to agree with me but the reason the reason I’m raising I think as, you know, and some of your viewers listeners, you know, I think we’re heading for some pretty tough chaotic violent times in tough chaotic violent times very often the first people yet I’m done over in personal persecuted, or caught in the crossfire are jews and that’s why I want to be mindful of it in what’s coming which might be a nice way for us to lead into what’s coming it’s.

Simon: Okay that’s great. But let’s introduce Horus who’s just had his tea, because we had a short break between this stream of the last stream you’re right Horus how’s it going mate?

Horus: Oh yeah good to me given and thanks for comin off bit of confusion that.

Gavin Boby: No thank you for embody your chat.

Horus: Yeah I’ll try it was hard to I’ve tried to represent you but I couldn’t fully, you know, I for my part demand that we spend the next hour resolving fully and finally the jewish Question and the basically the entire relationship between jews and Western civilization he’s blowing the last two thousand years no I’m sorry I know that there’s the topic of many days of conversation even then you’re probably still wouldn’t resolve it. But yeah, are we moving on, or they do you don’t me together a take on that yeah, sorry cut out Margaret Kevin sir tell.

Gavin Boby: You a few consignment on the home comfortable giving you one if you wanted.

Simon: I think we can let’s move on to the question in hand and what has brought Gavin here really.

Horus: Well just one thing Gavin just them until last summer I was sort broadly in the Counter Jihad what sympathetic to the Counter Jihad movement. But there was a video that that well I won’t go through all the history of it but basically I started making videos last summer and this with one called against Brian avi at some point maybe if you want to watch that and let me know what you think just I’d be interested to know your thoughts that’s all. But I saw what I’ll say.

Gavin Boby: Yes yeah that’s Brian of London and I don’t know a V an O’Brien in London. I think Brian and I would say we’re just not friends in any in any sense of what the horus: Simon’s not friends of you mean for anymore the video is not the video is not actually about them except for a few minutes at the star in the end there were just sort of a title to give it. But it’s about other things related to Islam and the relationship between jews and Islam in Britain. Sorry if you’re interested but no worries if you’re not.

Gavin Boby: Yeah I’ll watch T

Simon: Okay okay as this isn’t a completely prepared stream but fortunately we know each other so it’s oh I know what you want to talk about. Um okay we were gonna move on to the question of the troubled times ahead. I know you and I have spoken this about this in the past about how society is likely to break down. Can you give us a quick overview of your thinking on this? It’s a long in.

Gavin Boby: Hmm yeah big cavity I think that our society is likely to break down. I think that people will think that means we’ve lost I think that’s the point at which we will have won if we want to win. Which is just a question it’s in ourselves do we want to deal with these problems I’ve got the motivation to do so if we do we can do and we can do it easily. What I would say is if we look at the current problems the problems are, because the politicians are doing it and we are letting the politicians do it. I think the politicians are doing it, because it creates it gives them more power by making us more manageable, easy to rule, grinding us down, denying us a sense of identity. I think we let the politicians do that, because we think they’re going to take care of us. Think of the manage the economy, manage the welfare state. Actually, you’ve seen Simon you’ve commented on them I’m perfectly people out in the streets clapping like seals for the NHS! Yes banging this I think it is embarrassing it and people that is what I think that [30:01] is born of anxiety people can feel it slipping away. Now I think that the economics are likely to break down go into quite some depression. I thought that for I don’t decade 15 years and as a result of that the welfare state will cease to function you won’t get the freebies. Suddenly the dole check won’t land on your mat, the housing office won’t send you the rent checks you’ll go into the council to give them out full of abuse to the housing officer and you’ll find there are no employees in the council offices. And they’re not going to tell you that I’m going to tell you it’s broken that we can’t pay you a welfare check, or you’ll find you can’t get on an operating table in the NHS. Again they won’t tell you about that you just turn up where your operation will be cancelled. And at that point I think people will get angry! People will riot. They will say the deal’s off we’ve put up with you politician for you’d be able to give us food for your promise to look after us you’ve stopped looking after us the deal’s off you just get a chaotic society that will break down! In those circumstances I think this has already happening I can go through thatism in those circumstances I think Society will settle out along ethnic lines. As it did very briefly during the rites the London riots of 2011. And you will see de facto Muslim immigrant third-world ghettos in our country becoming official Islamic immigrants further world enclaves. Declaring independence. Basically saying we’re no longer part of England anymore we got our own door get out you need our permission to come in. And those places will become wretched fast. I don’t mean a simply a question of them being denied welfare I needs a question of being high every service under the Sun the question I pose is how long do you live in an area like that that produces nothing! And once it’s drainage is cut off and vaster. I don’t think it will work simply to walk up to a Muslim Enclave and offer 15,000 pounds to go. I think that will fail I’d like to talk about that, but that that already that does fail there’s abundant evidence for that. I think it is not working it is not going to work. But I think when societies separated out and you have a loss of the what i’ma call invaders invaders in self segregated in on the unsurvivable helble’s of their own making. And when they have to stew in their own juice they will be amenable to taking an airplane ticket. And that is not genocide that is not ethnic cleansing that is not the Warsaw Ghetto. The jews of the Warsaw Ghetto didn’t wall themselves up in it. If you’d offer the jews of the Warsaw Ghetto and had plane ticket up they would have taken it! It was not that was not self segregation. That was not jews stewing in their own juice! That was mass murder this is people self segregating and then they will be amenable I think we would accomplish it and it would be quite easy to accomplish it. I think this is likely to happen whatever I do. If I got run of like bus tomorrow I think this scenario is like likely to play out. The reason I do what I did the ultimate motivation is I want to preserve our moral authority! I want us to do this without massacre! Without the kind of eye watering massacre that I would expect to see in France, or the multicultural heaven of Belgium and Brussels. So where you just need to wear wellies to wade through it. And I want us to achieve it so that the towering moral authority that we possess and having had inherited and continued to have, higher than any other country in the world, that that continues that that goes down to future generations. And it’s difficult to do that if you’ve got a lot of massacre on your hands. So that’s why I think it’s going to.

Simon: Do you think there’s a difference between the Muslim community, obviously there’s a difference in the communities and their ethics, but the Muslim communities and the black communities, do you think they’ll they will break down in similar ways, or, … There are other ethnic communities that do tend to separate to a certain certain extent already. Are we just talking about Muslims, or are we talking about immigrants in a broader sense?

Gavin Boby: I think it will work out in a broader sense. And I think for two reasons I think people want and will want the [35:01] sense of belonging that comes from having people around you who look and think and speak like you do. I think there’s a very strong evolved an ethnic element to that. So I suspect quite a lot of this would apply to sub-saharan Africa as well. Whatever indeed so what I think is likely to happen what I would predict on here it could be wrong. I suspect that the state systems are going to break down I don’t see how that can be avoided. I think it’s probably just starting now in those circumstances the question is how do people then satisfy their fundamental need for law and order, or insecurity. I think people will say to themselves the states no longer here to provide for, nor for me so I will provide for it. People will provide for it to privately. It’s almost like a club. You join a club where you each agree to observe laws in your dealings with each other. So that you can live safely with each other so you can continue to trade. Now if I’m right on that the question that I had asked perhaps the question I think it’s an interesting little sort of conundrum off and after-dinner gain but in those situations would you join a system and an area that allowed Islam and the followers of Islam in it I think you’re I think most English people will say no, of course, not no way there’s no reason there’s no incentive so what Islam me. And people know everything they need to know about Islam and people with young children would record in horror. No wait no wait I don’t want any Islam, or the practition of the followers of Islam anywhere in this area why would there is it the right games the parasitism the hatred what is it and then okay. And then the next question. What about some sub-saharan Africans you look at the stab fest in London you look at the crime rates tendency for lower economic achievement. What will people say then I suspect what people’s what English in English people like a little bit of a little bit of difference almost like spice in the society where the Scandinavians don’t. So an English people might say well maybe, you know, a few maybe a few like many Henry that kind of I’m trivializing. But in journal I think people will say you look at the massive numbers of sub-saharan Africans arriving starting to right now I suspect was the authorities to started to rotate out of Islam into sub-saharan Africa this is recruit recruiting ground. What will people say they I wonder I suspect is well you can tell me what are people going to same what is I suspect given it is simply when eventually start saying to themselves I don’t hate you don’t had any one but we have the right to continue we have the right to our own sense of home and a right to a sense of belonging that’s what we want, you know, don’t take offense of this but we want our land we wanna have no it’s the only one we’ve got you have one in Afghanistan you have one in Gambia, or Nigeria Oman, or Iraq we want out here and I think people have every right to do that and I suspect that will apply to a lot of different groups. Again the interesting question is, if you apply that to jewish people I suspect most people would say not uncomfortable with having an English jewish guy as a next-door neighbor into Deer Island I would say that. I said so I suspect that practically speaking when the divine will come.

Simon: Like in many respect going I think it’s probably simpler than that I think if this scenario scenario that you’re suggesting plays out the world would become the society would become a lot more hostile place. And a White guy walking in what would quickly develop into a mainly black area, or a mainly Muslim area is going to be a target. Simple as that. And what will happen there will be and there are nice Muslims in the Muslims at area areas your friendly Larry Henry for your to repeat your example your the nice black guy that we go further down the pub with. But when at once things break down on ethnic lines the only key you’ve got is color. And quite simply a White guy won’t want to be in a mainly black area. And equally once this sense of hostility Rises once that once [40:00] though tension increases black guys and Muslims well what’s it going into why stick White areas, because there might be a number. And this to a certain extent is that would be the way to nullify the effect of the Left there may be plenty of lefties within the White areas who would want to be sympathetic but they won’t be allowed to be simply, because they’re the same color of skin as everyone else and they won’t anybody who stubbornly insists on multiculturalism will be wiped out pretty damn quickly I think. So people will run away and escape to these homogeneous areas. That’s what occurs to me immediately. Have you got any thoughts on this Horus?

Horus: Yeah quite a few. It’s no wish to mention first just what my I would like to believe this, because it suggests that the problems will essentially sort themselves out right I mean, albeit with some pain and some, you know, some losses on all sides. But what my big doubt is that the state, or the ruling class will allow this to happen. Say if it’s, you know, the loss of welfare and others notice a sewerage provisions, and so on, that would ultimately make these different enclaves or, you know, not get those but your enclaves say begin to re migrate themselves away from Britain and away from the West. And if that’s what it will take for them to leave of their own accord I suspect that our rulers will prioritize keeping those things going, because I see it I guess in a more conspiratorial, or malevolent at least a malevolent sense that our rulers have done this quite deliberately. Have brought these people here oh well you’ve said that yourself actually haven’t you, you know, that it helps them to control us — yeah — divided and fractures in terms against each other, and so on, yeah and so make us and so alienate us from other parts of our land, and so on, and I was putting on my words there. But I think I doubt that they’re gonna lose control to that extent. And I think that they’ll exactly, because they want these people here they will put keeping those services going so they’re almost the highest priority other than their own personal security. What do you think about that?

Gavin Boby: I think you’re exactly right, except for one point. Well the question I asked why do you think the politicians can’t lose control?

Horus: And well I mean, I’m all right in thinking that you’re saying that the currency that this will ultimately the debt problems will be what drives this?

Gavin Boby: I think the Western society will break down either, because of the debt problems if the debt problems don’t do it then the growth of mass immigration particularly Islamic immigration will break down the system. That breakdown of the system is unavoidable. My view is that it will be the debt burden that does it. And I think at the moment that is being borne out by events happening at the moment. The reason the reason I think politicians won’t be able to continue to enforce it is, because politicians are I think will be hightailing in hightailing it out on the last pokin out of the airport [to Tel Aviv?]

Horus: But as long as we mention it’s genes I hope that’s true. But I expected in 2008 I had a half it, because I was already into Austrian economics and the idea that the ultimately monetary reality will reassert itself. I was very disappointed 2009, 2010 to find out that there appeared to be almost no price at all for the people who’d caused that crisis. And I came to think it’s more that they will basically go to any length and they may be capable of just in one way, or another just keeping this off candyfloss of money just whipping up more and more in some way. Like it might be that in the next great credit panic they all which could be this year goodness language but they might just sort of force us all into a new currency. Like, because that did happen in with the rentenmark in 1924 I think in Germany. They just but the currency bra got so bad they just created a new currency and everyone did lose their savings but they still did it. So I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens. And then it might just be sustainable for so many more decades to say that by that point we are actually destroy it as a people. That’s sort of my [45:02] expectation at the moment. I’d like to be persuaded otherwise.

Gavin Boby: Do you mind if I jump.

Horus: Yeah of course.

Gavin Boby: Well if you look at the moment the theme what governments are on do you look at thee I’ve done a couple of videos on this if you look at the economic problems particularly in the States I think last week 26 million Americans have been made unemployed in the last four, five weeks. The amounts it’s I find it impossible to keep track of the trillions that are getting printed and just spent. I think in America it’s 5.2 I think in the EU is three from three that’s trillion I don’t know how much money that is actually three one three trillion now it sounds a lot to me. And from 5.2 in the States. That’s different from 2008 2008 you printed money you made it available to banks to lend to business people and it was leant against an asset so there was a corresponding asset. This time most of that money is just getting printed handed out to businesses just given away you’re a business you’ve got a debt you can’t meet your bills here’s some money spend it. This is some what this does is to undermine Ida and that lining that’s happened just over the process of about three weeks I mean, the lines incredibly steep if you look at the grass those graphs look like you’re dad’s viagra chart! I mean, it’s just going right up to the ceiling huh it’s absurd he said like something out of carry on me Karen carry on printing ridicule. But if that goes on people will these confidence in the Gaussian in the government. What I think is different from Vermont Germany 1923 Germany today is where we have what is different today from any time since we crawled out of a puddle is we have this belief and this expectation and you see it’s right when people are clapping the NHS people believe that the state can should and will take care of them. People believe it’s like oxygen. I mean, that is denied to people are going to go nuts people are gonna get really quite angry and violent. I think I don’t see how society fails to break down at that point. But I suspect we are living at the beginning of the end of the age of the state. That’s a different conversation but uh. I don’t think I’d be open to politicians to say don’t worry that’s alright we’re gonna institute a new currency now and everything we find will wipe the slate clean people will say well great where’s my operation where’s my doll check man oh no we haven’t got that we’re only printing have a new currency, or print up some more of it and you get the same problems. I don’t see getting revolt resolved as easily as that, but nothing is news as they could turn 23 1923 Germany whether the state has collapsed anyway it’s really Germany wasn’t providing things.

Simon: I suspect that what’s happening with coronavirus at the moment is I’m not optimistic, or let me give you a different take anyway but possibly what they’re doing with coronavirus is transit transitioning into a new crypto credit card the abolition of physical money. So we’re moving into a new system that probably will mean everybody getting poorer. I’m not all whether I agree with you that the system will break down completely, because it’s happening globally I think that the powers that be the elites for want of a better word are interns is enough to realize that things can’t get fall apart completely. So there’s got to be basic education there’s got to be a basic health service it might be much worse than it was before. But there’s got to be basic a basic very, very basic basic welfare state people will get increasingly impoverished and just where we’re moving into a neo feudalism, rather than the complete breakdown Society. And I’m not hard and fast on this that this is going to happen, but I’m just putting it forward as an alternative view.

Gavin Boby: Well perhaps if I give accounts of you that there appears that the rule the law from the rule from history case from the Soviet Union the collapse of the Soviet Union I would say if what you were saying applied to us would have applied to the Soviet Union in 1991. The rule varies for the Soviet Union and for the dictatorships and military codes of Latin America during the 1980s. Also from the hyperinflations of central and eastern Germany the Eastern Europe in the middle of the 20th century the rule is when a state’s annual deficit so the annual credit card debt is 20% of GDP that the rule is that’s when society just becomes uncover noble. And the way I put it you might have seen me say is that’s when the window cleaner he won’t clean the government offices windows without money up front. And then govern his living hand-to-mouth. And then it can’t you just can’t afford to pay for services that people think people today you think the purpose of government is not the maintenance of order they think it’s the provision of welfare. And I don’t see I think that will reinforce that law of history about annual deficits collapsing Society III don’t see how we are going to escape what appears to be a law of history, because politicians are ruthless but, of course, that ruthless they have no scruples whatever I mean, the semi psychopaths that’s how you succeed as a politician sorry okay.

Horus: That we definitely agree on they are undoubtedly undoubtedly attracts almost inhuman people in some in some cases. I’ll just come say oh we go we nearly at that debt to GDP ratio already for 20 percent you mention? In well I don’t know how much has been I can’t find out how much has been printed in the UK. Where I inferred the stains they would be that debt 2gb GDP level except they haven’t taken it on as debt they’ve simply printed the money and handed it out, or so they gonna print the money and having dinner I serve American GDP and what is it that 22 trillion. And I think 5.2 that’s more than 20% they’ve said they’re going to print up that much currency if I point to so it’s about a quarter but the thing is they’re not take most of that I think only 700 billion which is not very much money 700 billion US a tiny’mon only 700 billion he’s being taken on his government debt. The read the rest is just printing and giving it out so my guess is they but they must know you must know well if we take this on as debt always if we sell this as bonds out in the market will collapse there’s no way we can be painted so we just got a pretty tough they have no option. That’s their completely their favorite athlete but like most Psychopaths completely without strategy.

Simon: But this is my questions as you said, they must know. This the response to the coronavirus I’m not going completely down the conspiracy rabbit hole! Yes the I think some kind of disease does exist but it’s pretty clear that the response to it has been completely exaggerated. And it looks like I suspect that this some kind of controlled demolition! Perhaps perhaps they know what they’re doing. And if they do know what they’re doing that the aim is to make us all a lot poorer and, you know, turn everything into Brazil. Where the politicians the psychopathic politicians and the leaders of society would live in gated communities and the rest of us would be rioting and killing each other outside the gated communities plebs like us! I don’t know what you think about that getting.

Gavin Boby: I think there’s a lot of evidence to add color and credulity to that. Particular bathing house of businesses that have no right to expect a bailer that’s not bailing up the businesses the employees giving the employees employed that’s just bailing out the shareholders he might take a loss.

Simon: Yes.

Gavin Boby: That’s transferring money from the poor to the rich which has been a debt as a decade so what’s been going on for a long time. Loosen loose monetary policy feminism mass immigration it transfers money from the poor to the rich. It’s a war on the poor. And I come I don’t know enough to say if there’s a conspiracy if they’re not they’re giving you a good impression of it.

Simon: Yeah can I can I just do some Superchats, because there was some super chance at the end of the last show and we’ve got a superchat now which is a question directly for Gavin. I felt a bit guilty when I switched off the last stream and saw that people had given us some very generous donations and I had not mention their names. So a big thanks to Joe are who it for that seems stream sent three [55:02] US dollars and said:

“Great stream guys I think Chris and Horus are right about what could happen vision might appear in a less extreme form perhaps.”

Yeah we were talking a little bit about the breakdown of society and kind water loss vision of what was going to happen in the future.

Strip stripey White sent five u5gb pounds and says:

“Brilliant brilliant discussion gents!”

And Mark Hooper sent a very generous fifty pounds and said:

“Keep doing what you do guys you’re all brilliant!”

Thank you well so are you mark and thanks very much for the generous donation.

And finally a question for you Gavin which comes from White is the new green who sends five pounds and he says:

“Assuming Gavin is a barrister he mentioned his pupil master a few days ago. Why is he allowed to still practice with his anti-Muslim stance, while Ian Millard was expelled from the bar in 2016 for a pro-Hitler tweet?”

Gavin Boby: I don’t practice as a pastor. I secure planning permissions for people. That’s what I do. I don’t practice I don’t work as a barrister. I don’t wanna sell houses I mean, it’s a little bit it goes around people saying I’m a barrister. Would be shy about it, because he sounds like I’m holding myself out. I don’t work as a barrister. I just assume people just drop that one. But I mean, it’s a qualification I’m a little bit proud of that I don’t work as a barrister when I’m taking down moss what most applications I’m not doing it as a barrister. I’m doing it as a private citizen. Doing a job that you could do.

Horus: You’re not a Queen’s Counsel then?

Gavin Boby: No no!

Horus: I was just joking! But I’ve noticed quite a lot of the scumbags I’ve noticed over the last few years have been Queen’s Counsel! A lot of people who were most vehemently in favor of keeping us in the EU regardless of what people wanted so many of them were Queen’s Counsel! It was horrible! Like Joanna cherry and loads of terrible it seems like a lot I meet sorry but our culture not only clearing out but I’m sure not as a class though, you know, not as a whole category of people. I’ll just go mention to everyone watching as well if you’re not aware that Gavin has a Patreon where you can donate to help him his prevention of mosques activities. Which is like saving thousands of people from the scourge of having a mosque built near their home. So check out Kevin on Patreon.

Simon: This was the subject I wanted to move on. And move on to I know that people are quite familiar with your musk busking busting work but it’s important to remind people that apart from our predictions of what’s going to happen in the future you are you’re practically engaged in stopping mosques from being built in small towns and in particular areas. I remember when we spoke a while ago giving a graphic description you giving your graphic description of what happens when people get a mosque. So perhaps you could go through that again in order to remind people. And anyone who’s feeling slightly multicultural and thinking Oh husbands shouldn’t they have a right to religious freedom and have their nice place to pray um it’s not really about that is it going?

Gavin Boby: No I love the lefty liberal people who say just that they’re my best customers, because when there’s a mosque proposed in their neighborhood they know exactly how to write strongly worded letters to their local authority. They do extremely courtesy impolitely as if they’re writing to the guard. It’s fantastic more of them please! And then afterwards they go back to their multicultural PC drivel! It’s is this it’s very funny it’s very amusing I mean, forms of themselves but they work hard for me unbidden unpaid fuel by the power of one of their own self-image meet Amy. But what goes on if there’s a mosque in your area what I talk about is the four the four stages, or visit okay that the first stage is refer to as the parking jihad you will notice oh my goodness there’s a lot of parking here very inconsiderate parking these people I thought they were religious so I thought they park a bit more considerately than this that means people parking across your driveway parking inside your driveway and I’m just not. And when you’re gonna say can you move your car please no not on me what should I move my car No not going and that leads onto the second stage which is what I call the of off this is our area now stage, because Housewives guys excuse me I’m going to collect the children in a minute I’m going to do some [60:00] shopping could you please if you’ll come out of my driveway please F what missus this is our area now we usually it’ll be it’s only for a couple of hours in our air for and it’s the women who get gifts Warner it is not they’re not many White nice within Islam I think we can say the third stage is the plastic particle the plastic bag stage which is where you go to knock on the door and you get a couple of nice nice Muslim gentlemen saying wouldn’t you like to sell your house we have a plastic bag with some money in it, or a briefcase with some money and from what people have told me the figure is usually about a third of its market value, or maybe a bit less and that’s what you’ll get offered and when you say this it’s just not for so can you stop coming around doing this you will get to the reply you will get is no White person is going to buy this place off you’re going to have to sell some time and the impression I have is that’s done as it is a subtle, or not so subtle intimidation campaign you’ll get it and one of the tactic is the taxi driver takes you back from the airport will if this has started he’ll start doing it as well maybe you can’t afford to buy a house but he’s just a way of saying we’re gonna be taking over this so you’d better move and the fourth stage is that when it’s really advanced is the we have no reason to believe there’s any racial element to this crime Madame stage, because again when say they’ll have a housewife, or someone goes to the police saying I’ve had something nasty come through my letterbox, or my front windows been broken, or my gate post has been smashed into reversed into that’s all the police will say they’ll say oh I was a lot more trouble going on around here these days madam we have no reason to believe there’s any racial element this crime and your life will be miserable the value of your property will go down simply, because the BC multicultural person you even the PC multicultural person that we were talking about will not buy your house from you, or if he does he’ll say I’m not going to offer so much money, because I won’t be able to sell it on to so many people support them on will reduce the value of it and you will have to move I get people saying emailing me constantly saying this has happened it’s a problem for me I can’t go shopping I get sworn in my life is unpleasant what do I do and all I can say is move that’s all I can say until we are able to go back and retake those areas in future years future decades it’s not nice I’m having a mosque in your area which is why the people who advocate for it they’re very keen to have enough money to live away from the mosques and to leave it to them but lucky poor people to sit and celebrate.

Horus: You have any experience in olden Govan?

Gavin Boby: Little I have one for Tomas me I musta fought and lost in all around all them I’ve done 62 may be 63 and it, or Mulvaney Oldham his son is just sad that’s really he’s horrible horrible people that people are ground down they’re bitter, or in depressed and demotivated this depression I had.

Simon: Going going back to the topic of the breakdown of society, because it is relevant to the mosque I think um don’t the mosques again aren’t we under estimating the power of the Muslims and the organizational power of the Muslims. Mosques I don’t know if I spoke to you before, or after I’d been back to London I think there’s possibly after um but I, because I’ve got into the Counter Jihad and I didn’t really know have very much first-hand experience, because there are still relatively few mosques here in Spain there are four small prayer rooms and the Left are trying to push for them for more mosques to be opened people will start campaigning here if this starts to happen well I’ve had very little direct experience of a mosque in my area. So I went back to finish early part where it’s spent for three, or four years in the 80s and it had just that the state of what had once been a beautiful neighborhood a happy neighborhood with great pubs music have great memories of my time in frensley Park, you know, it’s an. Hole it’s the only it’s turned into a dreadful place. And walking past them the mosque I felt pretty intimidated. I began walking past on the same side of the [65:00] road and felt our hands across the road, because I didn’t feel comfortable and then I went to another one mine I was staying with a friend in Chizik and I was just taking some photos outside the mosque and all of a sudden a car came up with four heavies inside it and told me to quite simply told me to get out of the area. It was very, very clear that they felt that they owned the area around the mosque. So the point I’m getting to is that the mosque don’t serve a religious purpose there, the Muslims are obviously organized wouldn’t they have weapons wouldn’t they have provisions with which to stage a battle against the White community communities around them aren’t they a little bit more dangerous than your weight you’re giving them credit for.

Gavin Boby: So dangerous only very hostile very, very violent but bad a war not competent organizing I think probably well there are two things first if you just Google why Arabs, or why Muslims use Wars half a million hits will come back I mean, that and it’s generally put-downs the fact that there are all these jealousies and hey within the Islamic community paragraphs you don’t get coordination you don’t get discipline military formation, the other thing the second thing is, if you imagine an Islamic law yeah an Islamic self ghettoized and clave to walk around one of those places walk around there is no wealth production in there’s no self starting infrastructure no civil infrastructure legal system on government system no financial structure there’s no way of growing food there’s no way of developing getting the material to make way, because there’s no way to train in those weapons it’s youth I just don’t think. I don’t think that had the slightest hope even if we have no army if suddenly the British Army just disbanded then there would be no way they could take us on their beard a huge massive disadvantage probably made worse by their own viciousness that they would provoke the United opposition of the rest of the English people. I don’t see I certainly see they have the will and the hive mind to gather together but not the competence and ability. It’s a one I was surprised to find one of the basic and elements have gained theory one of the basic conclusions appears to be that the good has in people who can go tell the truth and keep to their word and I’ll not malevolent will tend to drive out the bat and it’s, because the good can trust each other but the bad come and that I think applies to apply to Muslim arizim as we get it I seen no way I think the wounded seal are taking on a killer whale on some tropical beach has more of a chance of killing that killer whale than some Muslim ghetto would we have of overtaking us. How many soldiers with not even the sniper rifles wouldn’t would be needed to contain an Islamic enclaves how many probably not many I don’t 50 maybe just perched on rooftops? Don’t based and then how do you train when you don’t have drainage how do you train me you’ve got no food coming in you’ve got no your electricity mobile phone is switched off it’s I know I just can’t see it happening.

Horus: What about the threat of a lot of British leftists joining them?

Gavin Boby: This is what I find so delicious is one of fun funny when let’s suppose half the British public are convinced liberal lefty Bourbons okay just community multiculturalism diversity diversity is our strength I’m good and I will live, or die by that okay it’s certainly, rather than half of the population are singing that then well let’s suppose behalf of the population like us with any brain half the population it’ll be more than half the population, because there’s no incentive to have anything to do with Islam. But let’s suppose only half the population can see them half of operations say we want nothing to do with Islam and Muslims and let’s say the other half the population these liberal lefties say no no lovely is what I want to go I want to live Oh Muslims are [70:01] welcome here immigrants welcome here and then what you find is suddenly in that area the concentration of Muslims has doubled. So you no longer living in an area that’s 10, or 20 percent Muslim in a living it’s 20, or 40 percent Muslim and as we know Muslim of confidence and aggression increases exponentially with numbers and so I think what you probably find is a few of those liberal lefty baboons would start to say well I was okay when it was 10, or 20 percent now it’s 20, or 40 percent I think I’m going to change the White area from with its young I’m decamp into the White area I’m still a multicultural baboon but I’m going to be a multi ultra-beam amongst any White people, because that’s where I can do the most good and the votive and then what you might find so half of them decamp then that that area goes from 20 to 40 percent so forty to eighty percent Islamic good luck to you if you’re living in an 80 percent of Islamic area you’ll be lucky to get up with your skin intact! So third well I think what you’d see what I think we’re what we will see is these historic feedback loops and this idea of segregating out will it will go into an accelerating feedback loop even if you don’t even if you discount the reality which I think is coming of European people in general including White English people saying we want this sense of belonging we like a sense of belonging we like a sense of neighborhood a sense of home and discovering that basic human need that the modern Puritans have tried to burn out of the Western culture and psychology this is something people babies need this babies need to know leave it on they die if they don’t adults contemplate suicide if they don’t have that feeling of a sense of belonging it’s a basic human II and but even if people don’t discover that I don’t know how you stop people discovering even if people don’t you’ll still get that that net that feedback to me hardening the separation I think the separation will be every bit as hard as an assignment is saying it will be and then these people are going to have to steer in their own juice and good luck to you if you do that you do not.

Simon: Do you really think I mean, you said we were gonna you wanted to talk about the plans that we’ve been discussing about of repatriation you really think yeah I mean, I think it’s an interesting topic in that and one of the things we like to do here is that the reason why these conversations are good is you’ve got a knock that knock around the ideas um I think that the main stumbling block at the moment is as we all agree we have completely disloyal traitorous politicians so the initial problem and when we were speaking to Nick Griffin to a certain extent he’s right about the difficulty of gaining power how many barriers would be put in the way of any kind of party that was proposing repatriation we’re kind of all aware of those difficulties but do you really think that the policies that we’ve been discussing are a non-starter?

Gavin Boby: Yeah. I don’t think there’s any chance of a sensible policy gaining power point for the reasons I’ve said if it did I think it. I don’t think it will benefit from the kind of feedback loop I’ve talked about in that supposing it managed to deport a number of people I think Apollo the more people it Deportes the less strongly people are going to feel about it whereas I’m if you don’t think it was just play out the way I think they’ve got to play out more people separates out the more they will separate out you get increasing separation but I’d like to talk specifically about the proposal whose Patriotic Alternative and have put forward a repatriation proposal which I think will fail I think it had already fails and maybe I should talk to their face about this maybe I’ll talk to him what might one day but they’re a political movement so I feel comfortable discussing them even though they’re not here to defend themselves and what I look at is well there are two things firstly there’s the platform that the Donora towner has outlined 15k per person to go and also the chart that Horus and you salmon and found and put up if I deal with your Atanas Rotel is 15,000 to go dent Denmark already has [75:02] that Denmark in 1997 I’ve put together a policy that says we’ll give you 1, 200 quid to go I know in the 12 year is until 2009 about 200 people per year let’s turn off our left over that 12 year period in 2009 they said we’ve got to get more to go more people to leave and so they increased in tenfold to 12,000 pounds okay not dollars not euros path toward the equivalent of 12,000 pounds and then I think in 2000 I think it’s 2011 they put it up to 15,000 nots and 16,000 pounds and in addition you get help buying a home you get health insurance I don’t if you get the full panoply of deli initial offer benefits in the foreign country then you offered payments but I understand you get health insurance and you get help buying a house I only get 16 grand now in I think in 2011 I think my little hazy I think the number was a hundred and no 260 and the last figures that I’ve read will lower 150 in 2015 what appears to be happening again similar to the table of all is posted the more it goes on and the more you pay the less they leave now this is done lock system I think it’s mainly oguns people around over 55, or over 60 I would say those are the people more light it, because I don’t have a life they’re not selling a life of welfare ahead of them like 50 years of welfare receipts please lovely it’s just a few years and you’re getting those the health care benefits abroad and they just it has felt though I’m not taking it up I mean, you’d have to work God know like I could work a hundred thousand years you had after two hundred thousand years to defer for that to work the so that is feigning that is not working I wonder if, nor at our Mark Collett know that it won’t work I’d like to put that question to them they must have done their homework on this, because they’ve put this forward in on a public platform I’d like to know I wonder if it’s a soft introduction to harder policies I don’t know the other one is the table I think you’re at the town are tweeted announcing repatriation voluntary repatriation is already working and you might want to bring up some table that table I looked at it took me 30 seconds to Google voluntary repatriation scheme UK okay and toppling I found it couple of minutes to read the first few paragraphs what that is for that is for people who are illegal immigrants and they’ve come to the end of the road you come in as an illegal immigrant you apply for asylum you apply for a passport I’m gonna leave it to remain you’re told them though your appeal against its hold now every Avenue is closed and eventually the immigration photo comes to you and says listen we’re now going to forcibly deport you if we do you will go into detention 91% going to detention will put you into detention why don’t you leave under your own steam save yourself the humiliation just go, because you are you’ve come to the end of the line and then sometimes you get someone will say oh well you can’t do that to me I can’t afford to go so you’re stuck with me I can’t afford to buy a ticket and then the government will say we’ll buy you a ticket and then they’ll stay oh. But if you do that I’ll be homeless on the streets of Karachi, or Kabul and then I’ll die and that’ll be on your conscience when that beat oh so nice Mr immigration is able to say we have a grant for that it’s called reintegration support and that is its one and a half grand for an individual to act for a family I think but it’s this is not what is being portrayed with this table what has been pierced immediately being put forward is this is some Home Office guy walking up to a an immigrant with a passport someone who might be third generation and saying here’s to Germar why don’t you go and he says all, you know, okay okay no no it’s not this is simply people who have come to the end of the road and are agreeing to go quietly I think and the numbers there are going down and a thank you I don’t Oris a keeper though thank you and you see the numbers there since 2015 going down and down and down I think in I read that in 2018 the numbers were for compulsory forced repatriation and volunteer in corner repatriation a quarter turn the forced and volunteer appreciation zone I think was ten thousand forced 15,000 voluntary. And this is not evidence of our being able to take our country back [80:00] simply by paying people to go it’s.z I don’t think there’s no evidence I think that is not going to work there’s no evident with the evidence from other schemes is that it 1-1 why would it if you’ve got a life of the wealth of the English welfare state a house English rates pay even if you’re not on welfare state health care systems education of your children rose policing UK rates of pay compared to Afghan intensive pay what is an Afghan rate of $1 a day I don’t there’s don’t know where you’re gonna do it for 15 grand I don’t I see it I only see evidence that that will fail I saw adjusted. I don’t think that will work I think what will happen is it’ll fail and then the people putting that in place we’ll see right no we’re gonna get serious we’re going to use we are going with that the hard measures now and then what you will get is the on is war that’s when you get massacred coming I think that approach will be taken in places like France and I think you learned a lot of blood now that’s again why I’m getting a sigh from getting a rate of my getting a bit aerated about it is I don’t want to see us the English having that blood on our hands the blood of Massacre on our hands I think European countries will have that are going to have them on their hands Brussels Paris parts of maybe parts of Spain parts of Italy maybe parts of Germany as well I don’t want us to do that and I think if we go down this note that status route is likely to lead to that and besides I just don’t think the government system will be there for a political party to gain control so.

Simon: We were talking earlier about I mean, making, you know, with Wells remaining as moderate as possible making the environments in Britain as hostile as possible, or as non conducive as possible so making it less stiff it difficult to get benefits to once you make a the plank field more level at the moment immigrants and Muslims in particular are upsetting favourable treatments but once they’re not getting favorable treatment for housing for welfare for jobs once you can a Muslim man can only have one wife kosher food is illegal any kind of mutilation gentlemen means like is illegal Sharyl Sharia law is illegal it’s a question of reimposing the English system once that is imposed and the environment is left less comfortable for them surely there would be more inclined to accept a an offer your muta that Gavin.

Gavin Boby: Forgive me. I don’t think that is likely to be. I don’t think that I need to be anywhere near enough if I go through that in a second the other issue of kosher and genital mutilation I think brings us back to the issue the question we were having about jews and jewish people. Personally I think I would allow kosher slaughter it might seem illogical I think I would I’d allow I’m jewish circumcision I’ve never met a jewish guy who regrets having been servant sized although non-jews I’ve read accounts of them regretting it I think it probably is in some ways beneficial for jewish people circumcision, because it’s a way to create that sense of belonging which for a persecuted people is probably necessary so I wouldn’t I just wanted to sort of flag up my that if we’re talking about if we talk about some immigration here mass immigration in general let’s say I think you’re taught you might be talking about here is let’s say a Muslim man who has four wives and a lot of children he gets welfare for all of his wives and that’s a disgrace we can agree that it’s so it’s dismal watching civil servants and politicians pander to that it’s just disgusting but let me put it this way supposing that was in man has one wife one recognized wife then suppose he thinks he has three others but they’re not registered as his wives they’re just single mums who as far as the state is concerned they’re single moms who he has impregnated and so they claim single mothers benefit and honey he goes around and hits around the head [85:02] until they give him the money every week I mean, how does how does that decrease it probably isn’t going to decrease the money that is available to them by very much might increase I thought it would increase it actually, but I remember. And if you ban halal slaughter my guess is Muslims, or would how about that I don’t even cause them to go I think they’d say we’re on a jihad here where we’re taking over probably you’d you would probably get a lot of from halal slaughter in people’s back gardens too much for the police to deal with is my guess how would you stamp it out but I suppose you could start the stamp it out it would take a lot of police resource I don’t. I can’t see it being enough to get them to go III don’t think Muslims are that principled I think they would say world KarenT will take up they’ll give gifts some dispensation from the earmark from some bloke with it’s, or no Santa hat, you know, from Cairo University to say that’s okay you can disobey Islamic law whilst you’re at war, or she’s taking over and then they’ll say well star Islamic sorcerer as we’ve taken over and I just don’t see that being enough when you can serve with a slew of money and the religious command to take over through war and genocide a bit of cheering on non-compliant meat isn’t I think that’s gonna be enough.

Horus: Do you think any scenario that leads to deportations on a scale of tens, or hundreds of thousands of years like forcible, you know, using force if necessary so you think that any scenario that leads to that is a bad idea should be avoided?

Gavin Boby: Well let’s play it out let’s say we go to let’s say half of his Birmingham is we want to deport half the population of Birmingham say half a million people and you go up and you say you’ve got to go now what if those Muslims say no we’re not going this is our area we’re not going. What do you do so presumably your and snatch rates, or you move the army in and you circle off a part of that area that contains enough people to fit on a budget okay so let’s say you can get [10,000 people on a cruise liner, or a destroyer belowdecks want to destroy it so you cordon off an area of Birmingham that has well it, or Bradford let’s say that has, or less than that has 10,000 people in it. And then you go house to house dragging people out now just how are you gonna and how you gonna do that supposing that they say no we’re not going out of our house and the women are weeping and wailing and the men are fighting and throwing god knows what improvised item that is going to be a situation of war people are going to you’re gonna get a lot of III see that breaking down I don’t know how you do that first a house and then supposing where does that go to do you take Iraqis and Moroccans to Bangladesh do you shoot them there okay what if Bangladesh, or if you’re taking them to a port in Karachi what if the Pakistani government says no you can’t dock your shoot here no way when allowing you, or do you can’t do it by open an aeroplane is too delicate a mechanism too many ways to bring you time and again Karachi Islamabad Airport could simply say you’re not allowed to land how do you do it how do you get ten thousand people out of their houses onto a boat how do you get ten thousand people out of their houses into a holding camp next to the harbour particularly with a suicidal religion that doesn’t have the same concept of the value of its own life I would see it as a religious duty to perish resisting that I don’t know how that works without what I would call massacre well am I wrong and we explained it me.

Horus: Know I’ve always assumed that if you did that I mean, if I was seeing government this yeah this would be one of the hardest considerations, because I both acknowledge two difficulties that you sped up by also literally can’t stand the thought of not deporting. But yeah, I mean, it’s gotta be done in such a way that it obviously improves things, rather than causes, you know, an even worse situation one way you might find huge numbers of your own [90:01] people trying to overthrow your [90:02] government, because it’s causing such, you know, evils so yeah, I don’t necessarily have a clear idea of how that work but I always assumed that you could section off you could use sufficient force and inducements to the foreign governments like, you know, by either by leveraging them with the foreign aid that’s given to them and stuff, or deportations in combination with payments to those governments in some way I always assumed it can be done if piece by piece I always thought suppose. This is a bit off topic but the first most difficult like pressing task every government wants to deport hundreds of thousands of people is for us to fight as for us to defeat your internal enemies to defeat much of a civil service and to replace many, or most of the chief constables of police parts of the intelligence services close the BBC, or suspended various things are that and a defeat massive Left-Right oddity you get to government by the time you’ve got into government they know that you’re what they call Nazi is right they’re determined to what bring you down and hang you if you can if I can but so by, you know, after having been in government for six months he wouldn’t even have stayed on a program people say she probably spent that whole time fighting your internal enemies but by the time you’ve done that you may have demonstrated such will and frankly terror to the at least for some external you may have begun to reverse the process that’s likely, you know, just a the show of will that you’d have to show anyway in order to get that far might actually I mean, you have to consider the geopolitical situation there, because you put out the US like threatening you with God knows what as well and the UN and other countries so it’s really hard to map out.

Gavin Boby: It is its important to do this and have this kind of conversation, because of the biggest one of the biggest inhibitors we have is that enemies can say you can’t do this without unthinkable methods there for you can’t think about it’s unthinkable don’t think about it and I saw a an interview, or Nigel Farage getting asked about the Prophet of Islam there’s immediate response was well then you have to kill any you’ll have to kill everyone when you so you can’t dig like no now what’re you gonna do kill everyone that’s it and walked away now and that is the card they’re going to play that is what it’s necessary to think this through to think this through realistically and to see are there ways that we can take back our own home without having to dirty our hands and to commit Massacre atrocity yeah that is worth thinking true I think I was I found myself thinking about this 15 years ago how is this how does this going to happen and moralism I think actually this is it seems to me will play itself out just a human nature that the main problem is our governments once they’ve gone Society segregate us out Islamic areas become hard form in Islamic areas unlivable and they might come to us saying please give us an airplane ticket at least the weather’s nice back there and there’s a people like us though and I think it’d be a lot easier those regards the BBC enemies like the BBC tell me if the politicians are clinging on by their craws how important priority is the BBC licence fee games it’d be like the porgy DC’s hi I’m your BBC’s panicking the BBC is not reporting any what hardly at all the current economic problems become an economic situation, the money printing you won’t find it anyone the BBC I suspect they want to report on people clapping the NHS that’s wonderful the reason for the reason for that they can see that the gravy train where they have a nice front row one of the stiffs and the front carriage the gravy train is going to hit the buffers and they don’t know what to do about since I think a lot of the enemies will just melt away I like it I look forward to the delicious excuses that the lefty liberal the beings are going to come up with when they think I’m.

Simon: Okay one of the expressions odd from our previous conversations that I’ve always has always stayed in my mind I’ve said [95:01] I’ve already told you about this previously Gavin was well it slowed the tide stop the tide turn the tide now it seems to me that. This is a lot more consistent with the repatriation product policy then I mean, we’re all talking about the same thing all of us want to avoid bloodshed and atrocities so all of us are knocking around the suit all of us want our countries back but we don’t want to do it violently so wait so all it was a thinking of a way thinking of ways in which this can possibly come about I’m very, very uncomfortable about reaching this kind of Mad Max post-apocalyptic world where, you know, society is completely broke broken down and we’ve kind of laughed about this, because yep I also think that the indigenous population will tend to have an advantage, because if you’re in rural areas at least you’ve got a chance to sustain yourself you’ve got farmlands you’ve got, you know, you can produce your own food food what on earth can you do in hansworth not a great deal what on earth can you do in the East End of London not a great deal but at the same time the idea of society completely breaking down I’m sure you understand that I’m not very happy about it about this.

Gavin Boby: Well there’s another side to which it could it could lead to something better quite quickly I actually wrote a little it’s on my website a little book a little guide to this what to do when the state the state breaks down the key thing is people need law so I wrote a legal code that people can use just take it away and use if they want just so people can have laws and agree to abide by the laws I suspect what you will get is the breakdown of the state that doesn’t mean the loss, or law I think you’ll move from state imposed law to self-government state and post government to self government I think that will be a lot freer and a lot nicer a lot more prosperous and a lot more run a lot more humane a lot more communal, because people will be achieved choose legal systems for themselves and so you get a greater sense of pride it’s not something that’s just forced on you I suspect I think people will do that pretty quickly what people will need to acclimatize themselves to is the loss of the welfare state that’s the thing that I think is unthinkable to people but my I would guess if this if this happens although it’s without the state imposing mass immigration feminism which declined dumps wage rates and the loose monetary policy which again increases the cost of living by enriching your already rich I would expect your average workers only raped pay rate to treble probably quadrupling massively increase and I think people rather support themselves they’ll have to accept freebies from the man with the upper-class accent so yeah the difficult thing for be able to contemplate with people are not going to contemplate and in essence porcelain it’s a lot of the welfare state. But I think the idea of a form of self-government would actually be create a much nicer society I actually think it would create probably a new form of British Empire where in those circumstances I can see let’s say you live in Nigeria who and you’re just a trader who do you want administering your private legal code do you want Nigerians administering it, or do you want English people administering it you’ll probably go the way of the Hong Kong Chinese they love the fact that the English their laws they were quite happy with they’re very comfortable with it and they did a fabulously wealthy I think you’re probably in those circumstances getting a lot of other countries saying we want you to come in and basically governor will form create and run the forms of law and security in place, because you did a better job than us so. I don’t think it’s necessarily a horrible prospect I think the transition, the dislocation will be absolutely eye-watering the example I gave is let’s suppose you’re a single mum on the seventh floor for each doing you don’t know who the fathers were different three fathers you don’t know who they [100:00] were the lifts don’t work it starts working in the stairway fills up with rubbish you’re me might be a bit it’s too old to prostitute yourself in any way if, you know, you’ve got three children what would you live on how do you I presume you try to find it a man you can be nice to, I don’t know, matter so I mean, it will be I think they’ll be appalling an appalling transition as a result of the way society has been so damaged by blood first order our politicians making rougher promises for power in order to get gather more and more power and control I think it rude will be for the best.

Simon: That’s good anything more to add horrors before I do we’ve got one super Chet and we’ve got a few questions that seemed quite interesting so any points to make?

Horus: Well that scenario has occurred to me as well that at some point in the future you might find Third World countries kind of contracting rulership from the West from countries like Britain who they’ve just found through experience they don’t want to be colonized as such, or ruled by force but they will like contract our rulership to some extent that occurred smooth for as well that you may actually find a sword will re not recolonization some sort of new westernization in term year in terms of life yeah look, or codes and legal administrations though. But yeah, I’m just sort of adding my agreements there, but by us I only plan to be on till nine some. So I’m gonna drop off in five minutes of us alright bulb I don’t is with questions.

Simon: Alright yeah the first question is I knew this is gonna come back and bite you Gavin but Joe are says since five pounds and says Gavin he’s given you a some information here Gavin the reason the USSR killed religious jews is, because the Soviet jews were savety and Franky’s they believed and practiced the Torah in Reverse basically Satanism you should research saboteurs every quick guides on those, or not at all.

Gavin Boby: I will like I knew nothing about this I will yes.

Simon: Yes a besides every is quite an interesting character 1666 okay questions do Matthias asks how does Gavin individually NPC armed forces and their silently mega-wealthy globalist Empress acting in a time of collapse?

Gavin Boby: What are the NPC armed forces.

Simon: Okay the NPC NPC was and what was MPC Horus?

Horus: Non-player non-American answering.

Simon: The non-player character and, nor the, nor me the pro-pro globalist armed forces how will they react.

Gavin Boby: I would expect normies once if the world fair driven fee is torn out of people’s arms I mean, people are going to wake up in a bad mood and suddenly take responsibility and my experience is when people have to make individual decisions for themselves they make very, very sensible decisions I would expect suddenly the question will be like appeasement in nineteen forty who wasn’t at peace who was a multiculturalist I would expect that to happen then what will happen with the armed forces I friend of mine told me that he was at a demo where the there were some what some semi why they were some armed forces there, but he walked up to him and said if you were ordered to shoot us to maintain order would you shoot us the soldier said no no way no way ice what would the army do I would have thought they’ll side with people, rather than with the man with the upper-class accent.

Simon: Yeah, I think so too if once the command structure is removed to a certain extent pega Mead asks do you agree that the real enemy is the traitor White liberal happily ignoring mosque building, because they live far away, rather than a visible mental case jihad Warriors destroying our culture?

Gavin Boby: Yeah that’s right.

Simon: I think we I think we all agree on that don’t we it’s that it’s not so much the well we don’t like the people being here, but the people that open the gates for them they’re definitely the traitors and we’ve got this one from Marty morosely there’s I’m gonna skip this Angela, because I think it’s a bit too incendiary sorry Marty morosely would go and consider working with Patrick pashyati alternative, or at least maintaining friendly relations [105:00] despite his take on the JQ and not aligning with Mark Collett.

Gavin Boby: Yes I don’t know about not aligned with Mark Collett, because I haven’t done the courtesy of talking to him face to face that’s I haven’t had the opportunity I would certainly maintain friendly relationships despite any we can differ like a couple of gentlemen seems to me.

Simon: Okay well we’ve gone on foodon to — is it two hours and 20 minutes I think.

Horus: Nearly an hour and fifty.

Simon: An hour I know okay yeah now I’m 50 so we got 10 minutes to go any summing up to do, or 10 minutes maximum to go.

Horus: I’m gonna have I’m gonna have to drop off if you don’t want so long as you’ve got a bit of work to do.

Simon: Okay all right see you Horus thing thanks for being here.

Horus: Good to meet you having welcome.

Gavin Boby: Nice to meet you thank you.

Simon: Okay I think clothed that closing and we don’t have to do a whole ten minutes if we run out I think the important thinks of stress is can you give us information about the current work that you’re doing current and future mas busking projects if you’ve got any and how people are speaking to think in particular how people can help you and support your Patreon and give us some contact details?

Gavin Boby: That’s very nicely thank you yes what if I deal with that last one first and people can help me by going to these Patreon if you go Gavin going to be patron owners Patreon the/up junk on four slash Gavin Toby and that’s the one thing I need I’m afraid is money it’s not money for me none of that money goes to me it goes on most goes on the costs of fighting individual mosque campaigns it costs money you have to pay for publicity just to let people know that it’s happening that cost money not tends to need to be come in hard copy form so and I’ve heard a little bit of money to power who does the horrible job of researching council website to find these applications so I can get onto the burning so I don’t find out about them after they’ve been granted planning permission that’s basically the, or the horrible awful truth is, if you want to help it’s about funding supplying the funding so I can go after these places as regards since I went on Dangerfield’s stream he was so good about it people what as followers is scrubs so these subscribers given me enough to go after one mosque a month so it’s great suddenly I can I get previously people were just expecting me to pay for it they wouldn’t contribute themselves it was really bizarre you’ve got a mosque to know two doors down ah can’t be bothered no it’s not worth it to me and well your house will go down by ten percent overnight and but now people are people feeling engage and I can go after one I’ve to campaign I don’t like to name the campaigns and doing at the time so I’d like refer to name them in retrospect after they’ve been dealt with preferably after they fit once it.

Simon: Makes perfect sense.

Gavin Boby: Brag but I am going through I’ve had about a list of four pin three to me yesterday and another two comes I think the two I saw today I’m gonna try to go after both of those and they’re not expecting this.

Simon: Okay well that’s I mean, that’s great music it’s been a real pleasure seeing you again after all these years Gavin I think all of us think and believe as, you know how Horus is a massive fan of yours we’ve been we’ve been speaking highly of you this is I want to stress to everybody this is important work this is practical work me and Horus do history and we have our ideas and we’re entertainers really what Gavin’s doing is he’s down on the ground fighting the battle and, you know, fighting to stop Islam gaining more power in this country so please please support him I will put out our gets his Patreon link and I’ll put it in the district description of the video once it’s finished I also tweet it out and do a little bit of publicity for him but it’s been fantastic having him on and a pleasure to see you thanks very much for coming.

Gavin Boby: Likewise thank you very much Simon has been a great pleasure and thank you to all US as well.

Simon: Yeah so look after yourself Gavin and we’ll speak soon good eye everybody bit bit a long night tonight.

[109:52]

END

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Simon Harris – EF 23 – Is Populism and Patriotism Enough? with Paul Rimmer – May 5, 2020 — Transcript

admin — Wed, 06 May 2020 04:38:54 +0000

[Simon Harris and Horus talk with long-time political activist Paul Rimmer about the state of nationalism in Britain. Paul talks about his political journey, his involvement with the BNP and what needs to be done to save Britain from the looming demographic disaster.

— KATANA]

Contributors, so far: Simon

_____________

European Freedom #23

Is Populism and Patriotism Enough?

Paul Rimmer

May 5, 2020

Click here for the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnFzDBPqCuE

Published on May 5, 2020

17.3K subscribers

Programme Notes
EF #23: Is Populism and Patriotism Enough? with Paul Rimmer
https://www.europeanfreedom.com/2020/…

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Support My Work
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Join the conversation
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____________

TRANSCRIPT

(120:14 mins)

[00:08]

Simon: Okay. Hello everyone. And welcome to European Freedom livestream number 23! And I’ve called this one “Is Populism and Patriotism Enough”. And we’ve got a really great guest tonight. Veteran activist Paul Rimmer. So we’ve got a really good show ahead of us. But before I introduce Paul, I’m gonna talk to my mate it’s Horus. How’s it going?

Horus: Good thanks Simon. Yeah it’s lovely and sunny here, but it’s a cold wind. Yeah I had a nice big satisfying dinner. I’m doing all right. How are you doing?

Simon: I’m doing okay. Did you have a Viennetta for pudding?

Horus: [laughter] No just a bit of chocolate.

Simon: Or it’s just special?

Horus: No we had one on Sunday [laughter] actually.

Simon: I had strawberries and very, very classic vanilla ice cream. So I’m doing okay really. Okay I have to ask you the eternal question. What’s the state of the video? It’s been about six weeks since the last video mate!

Horus: No more. Yeah I recorded another part to it the other day and I’m gonna record another one tomorrow as well. So it’s gonna be six parts. And then I’ve still got to edit a lot of it as well. So I don’t know. Still not ready.

Simon: Months and months!

Horus: Yeah, sorry. I did a live stream with Haryan Gláeddyv [Silver Sword] on Saturday though. If people wanna watch something on my channel, check out my channel for that.

Simon: Okay great! Okay now we’ve got to introduce our fantastic guest, who is Paul Rimmer, who’s a veteran activist. I use this in the broadest sense there, the word, because we’re gonna talk about a bit about his political history. And he and I have been chatting. Well not chatting really kind of interacting mainly through the comments section of my videos for about 6 months, or so. Haven’t we Paul?

Paul: Yep.

Simon: And I’ve heard of you before that from EDL [02:02] activist Johnny Banks, who I’ve been friends with for years. And, in fact, I streamed with him about three years ago. And I should have should sense of a message today’s to say that you were on. He’ll probably be annoyed with me now. But I suppose really. And this is my introduction to you. I think we’re gonna discover over the course of this conversation some differences in our points of view.

But I think immediately, or certainly I felt, I was really pleased to see you in the comments, because I’ve heard of you. And I think we’ve kind of hit it off immediately. And I suppose what I want to get out of this conversation is that nationalist, Patriots, we’re all in this together and should be moving more, or less in the Right in the same direction. I don’t know why what you think about that mate?

Paul: Absolutely! Yeah, I think unity is the key really. I mean, we’ve all got the same purpose which is to save our nations. But we need to come together to achieve that. If we don’t come together we fight it as small groups and individuals it’s just self effort. It will get nowhere. But if we have purpose but no unity, it will all just be self-indulgence. We’ve got to come together and sort of pool our resources, because we’ve got one heck of a fight going on!

Simon: Yeah definitely. Because really we’re in the state of its “make-or-break” isn’t it? We’re fighting for survival in the West here. We’re approaching a very crucial moment in our history.

Paul: I think we’re in desperate times to be honest. The scale of immigration, and the collapse of our own demographic sort of reproduction is frightening! I mean, this is going to augment massive changes over the next two decades. And if we don’t wake up we’re just going to be pushed aside! And we’ll be, you know, consigned to the [04:00] rubbish bin of history.

Simon: Yeah definitely. I suppose the point, the place I wanted to start with really was how you and I kind of got to know each other. You started commenting on my videos back in October, when the whole thing in Catalonia kicked off.

And I suppose what we could establish first is the similarities in our positions. I slowly came to the conclusion that’s Catalan nationalism the Catalan independence movement is its false nationalism. It’s globalism, international Socialism, you know, masquerading as nationalism really.

Yeah, how do you view for Spain from Liverpool? I’ve heard you talk quite a lot about the Vox party. But how do you view the situation in Catalonia?

Paul: It’s a bit like Scotland really. It’s these sort of micro nationalisms. These sort of fracturing nationalisms, which want to attack the established nation-states. And they’ve taken on this, … Being sort of infiltrated by Marxists I would say. Who’ve managed to get themselves at the head of these pseudo nationalist movements and have pulled them dramatically to the Left!

So although they seem to be using terms like National Party, or calling for national autonomy they are, in fact, destroying the areas that they’ve taking power over! So it’s quite deceptive really what they’re doing!

Simon: Isn’t it interesting that lots of these nationalists, we talk about this quite often, because obviously I’m in Catalonia. But the SNP, Catalonia, Plaid Cymru to a certain extent, Sein Fein in Ireland, as well. And even in Quebec. All these kind of false nationalisms end up selling out to the whole multiculturalism, diversity, [06:01], or what we call the “Globohomo” agenda. Have you got any theories as to why this is? I personally think they’re designed to be this way.

Paul: I think they buy into a grievance politics. And they make themselves out as victims, and they develop this false narrative where they’ve been abused throughout history. And they’re still being abused today. And it’s not true! I mean, Scotland was a partner with England to create the British Empire!

Catalonia has always been the most prosperous region of Spain, and the most privileged region of Spain! But they seem to want to present themselves as the victims of some big bully. And it’s a fiction. And in order to maintain that fiction they go further and further to the Left. And for me it’s absurdity!

But! There’s money in it! This is the thing, these activists these left-wing nationalist activist, they’re getting control of institutions they’re getting control of government organizations, and they’re raking in the money! And there’s a built-in incentive to keep it going. Even though I’m not quite sure what they want, at the end of the day, because do they really want to fracture these very successful nations? I mean, that would be disastrous!

Simon: I mean, I don’t know what you think about it, Horus go ahead.

Horus: Now you’ve mentioned before Simon the Open Society Foundation got involved in the Catalan struggle as well. Is that right?

Simon: Yeah, because Open Society Foundation is very, the whole Soros thing is deeply embedded here. Soros hasn’t got offices in every city, but he’s got offices in Barcelona. The reason why, I mean, I think everybody on the stream knows that I was kind of heavily involved in the independence movement.

And I used to have a show on in English radio in Catalonia. And we got head hunted by Catalan national radio to do a show for them. And it would have been, we started [08:02] to move in the highest circles of Catalan left-wing independence politics. And there were Soros types everywhere. There’s a kind of foreign office, kind of Catalan foreign office called Diplocat [The Public Diplomacy Council of Catalonia]. I think three of the people that work there, three out of the seven people that work there also work for Soros. There’s also a think tank called CIDOB, where the people that work there works on government policy. Where the people that work there move between open societies foundations. So they’re completely embedded. Catalonia really is a color revolution, completely!

Horus: And that’s where money becomes a factor for the activists, like Paul said as well, right? I mean, Soros is a sort of a fountain of money isn’t he?

Simon: Yeah. And also what’s very unfortunate is the useful idiots. I spent a lot of time with useful idiots, who actually believed in globalism! They actually are firmly committed to the destruction of their own culture, their own country. They want to break away from Spain and fill it with migrants!

Okay, before I stop, I’m gonna add one more thing. You’ve probably heard of “Open Arms” the group that saves refugees, or fake refugees. Well they’re based just outside Barcelona.

And it’s stop and think about. If it’s got “open” at the start of its name, it’s probably funded by Soros. And this is totally funded by Soros. Open society foundation, Open Arms, Open Democracy is another of his groups. And, you know, they’re, the normal Catalans, who I love, many of whom are my friends have bought into this “let’s flood our land with refugees”! [10:00] a bit like Plaid Cymru [The Party of Wales] wanting to turn Wales into the most accepting part of the world for accepting refugees! Catalonia is very much the same, it’s so depressing.

Paul: It just shows how false the whole narrative is. Because there they are to preserve Welsh traditions, and Welsh culture. And they want to flood it with people who have no connection with Welsh culture whatsoever! But Soros has got to be the most sinister character since Joseph Stalin! I mean, Stalin created the Third International and it was a huge network around the globe manipulating the Communist agenda, imposed it on nation’s.

And Soros seems to have this vast network, because he’s accumulated so much wealth through the financial system. Incredible amount of wealth! He’s just buying in people and he’s obviously totally committed to this agenda of destroying the Western nations! Destroying Christendom! And it’s very sinister!

Horus: I always wonder with us of the Left wing nationalists, like those Plaid, like those in the Catalan movement, and the SNP. Like do they ask themselves, or each other, do they ever try and answer:

“Why is it that we’re supported by one of the very richest men in the whole world?”

Like how does that fit with left-wing politics? Like do they never, does that not trouble them?

Paul: I think it’s all bogus! Beginning to end! It is about enriching and empowering themselves. And they are buying into the agenda that brings that forth.. I don’t think ideologically that actually they are that deep. I mean, they’ll probably switch horses very quickly if anything went wrong. But they seem to have did the media on their side. And the political establishment on their side. And therefore, like the globalist they’ll just into this game of constant manipulation of the public. Constantly deceiving the public!

Horus: So for most than the you reckon it’s mostly a case of just getting on a massive gravy train?

Horus: Well, I can’t see any other reason for it.

[12:02]

Simon: I’m gonna have to disagree with you Paul. I mean, certainly Esquerra Republicana [(Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya (Catalan Republican Left) are the SNP of Catalonia)]. But when I was doing this radio show I had the chance to interview most of the bigwigs in the party. And a lot of people that founded the Assamblea Nacional Catalana [pro-independence Catalan National Assembly] which is the kind of the Catalan civil organized organizing group for the independence movements. They’re the ones that organize all the marches. The Esquerra Republicana’s Foreign Minister who I got to know pretty well. I was involved in various groups with him. Interviewed him twice. Went out for drinks with him on a number of occasions. I think, yeah he did African Studies, and he’s just a fan of Africa!

You start talking to him, he knows his Catalan history, but he wants to turn it into Africa! The brother of the founder of the ANC, which is the Assemblée Nationale Catalana. He’s got two black African adopted sons, or at least one.

And you kind of talk to these people and most of them have really bought, have really bought into it! It’s utterly and completely disturbing! And I think they sincerely, or perhaps not all of them. The right-wing party is a lot more cynical. I think they want the money. But the Lefties actually believe this BS! I found it really, I used to come home from doing this show, and say to the missus,:

“You know, I’ve got to stop doing this! I can’t be around these people anymore!”

Because the terrible thing is, they thought I was one of them! That I’d spent a year with them completely under cover! So they’d kind of let all this stuff out in private. And yeah I have to disagree with you Paul.

[14:01]

Paul: Well what I would say Simon with that, is that these people hold this ideology, this globalist ideology, one-world ideology, bringing the whole human race together. They hold it almost like a religion. It’s their sort of, it gives their life meaning. And it’s their purpose in the world to break down all barriers between people. We all live in this supposed harmony, where all that created order is actually cast aside! But! There is a different reality which shows when they send their children to school.

And I’ve noticed this with a lot of left-wing people in England. They won’t send their children to school with the ethnic minorities! They insist on sending their children to school, posh English schools! And that shows you their heart really is. But, of course, that doesn’t pay for them. I mean, I know so many left-wing people who have lived in multicultural, multi-ethnic, areas.

Once they’ve had children and the children reach school age, they move out these areas into an exclusive sort of White, English, middle-class areas. And that’s, because, that’s where they really feel comfortable. But their earnings come from buying into the multicultural agenda. So I think they’re very schizophrenic in that sense. But the reality is the heart is against multiculturalism, even though they’re making a fortune out of it.

Horus: I think it can partly explained as well in terms of class, right? Like obviously we don’t have the same classes that Marx described, and there’s not simply a world, you know, like as leftists, like international leftists, there’s not simply a world working class, a world bourgeoisie, or whatever. But I think there is perhaps, or has been forming for some decades now, like a world cosmopolitan class where, yeah, like anti-racism and anti-nationalism, is probably the binding ideology of like what is a global class that exists across most of the nations of the world. And these people sort of like get assumed into it, assumes upwards, socially into this cosmopolitan class. That just sort of glides across the top of the world like cream, you know, and that’s how I see these people.

And obviously is greased very much like lubricated by money that comes from people like Soros, probably Bill Gates and people like that as well. And Bono [chuckling] and the anti-nationalism is the binding ideology of that class. They might not all really believe in it, but they all go along with it, because it serves to bind their class together. And what you said about the schools, Paul, I can imagine, yeah they go to schools that are mostly White. But there will also be the odd, very wealthy, Nigerian, with a very wealthy Indian, or something. They’re like this son of an Indian billionaire. So they will have multiculturalism to that degree, but it’ll be with other wealthy globalist, you know, cosmopolitan types.

Paul: I think that’s the higher echelon to the globalism, you know. People who can move around the world who are really at the top of these institutions. But, of course, globalism that has this huge constituency below that. Which goes right down to primary school teachers, and people working in hospitals, and so on.

Horus: Yeah.

Paul: Especially public sector unions, liberal professionals. And it’s they’re sort of slightly working-class, a lot of them. Just upper working class. And even amongst them you see this discrimination when it comes to their children in terms of education. They don’t want their children educated with the ethnic minorities! Shows what their heart is.

Horus: Yeah. And for those of us who remain in the normal in the working-class in the older sense, [18:02] there are some of the most repulsive people, because they’re really close to the action! They know what harm they’re causing, and they still serve this kind of ruling class. Because they hope to be, to sort of ascend up, up towards it, I think.

Paul: And their treason is blatant as well! I mean, you know, they’ll fly the Palestinian flag, but they won’t touch the Union Flag! You know, they want to ally with anybody who’s anti-British, or anti-White, or anti-Christian. They despise Christianity, that is another aspect of it.

Simon: Did you see all those Liberal Democrats celebrating Ramadan the other day? [chuckling] What a pathetic bunch! I found us this guy on Twitter the other day, had got up early in the morning to have breakfast. And he was gonna spend the rest of the day celebrating Ramadan. But significantly these people hadn’t celebrated St. George’s day, so their kindness is utterly and completely misplaced!

Paul: And their sincerity is really bogus as well, because, before they’ll celebrate Ramadan, they’ll go on a gay pride march and celebrate, you know, sexual perversity! So I mean, it doesn’t mean that. They’re just plugging in to people they regard as their constituency. There’s no real loyalty to any of this! It’s just absurd! The Liberal Democrats, I mean, they’re playing this sexual politics game now. You know, their leader, I think that one of the women who sort of campaigned to be leader the Liberal Democrats, she described herself as “pansexual”!

Horus: Layla Moron, isn’t it?

Paul: Yeah [chuckling] ten years ago that would have been totally absurd! But now that that plays well amongst the Liberal Democrats. There totally lost people.

[20:00]

Horus: I wonder, like if they actually, do they not realize that almost all Muslims will laugh at them for doing this! Right? It’s not something that actually earns the respect, or the affection, of Muslims. I don’t think so at all. It’s bizarre!

Simon: But Muslims are noble savages as far as they’re concerned! [loud laughter] Muslims can have no evil thoughts! Please bear in mind it is a religion of peace, isn’t it!

Horus: 100%!

Paul: Well I think if the Muslims appreciate the key elements of it. It’s false! It’s false adulation of Islam. But it helps them in advancing, you know, the dar al-Islam, their control of this country. So they’ll appreciate that.

Horus: I’m sure they welcome it, because, yeah, it increases their power. But I imagine their feelings about it are contemptuous.

Paul: We’re all dhimmis* aren’t we to them. So I mean, these are just showing that they’ve accepted this dhimmi status of inferiority and they’ll bow the knee at a Muslim festival.

[* Dhimmi refers to specific individuals living in Muslim lands, who were granted special status and safety in Islamic law in return for paying the capital tax.]

Horus: We will start seeing them convert as well. That can happen to a lot of White leftists. There’ll be a certain tipping point where a load of them will just convert all at once.

Paul: And they put the burqa* on.

[* Burqa — The terms niqab and burqa are often conflated; a niqab covers the face while leaving the eyes uncovered, while a burqa covers the entire body from the top of the head to the ground, with only a mesh screen allowing the wearer to see in front of her. The burqa is also not to be confused with the hijab, a garment which covers the hair, neck and all or part of the chest, but not the face. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa]

Horus: Yeah, all sorts. Well they’ll probably wear like a rainbow burqa, at first, or something. But they will slide towards just basically worshiping the Saudi version eventually.

Paul: Well, what’s got me about Keir Starmer when he first became Labour Party leader, he made a big speech about the Labour Party’s got to win back — who have they got to win back? The White working-class. They lost seats, they lost seats in White working-class areas to Conservatives. Now they’ve got to win back the Hindu vote! The Indian vote! And they sort of see themselves now as the party of the ethnic minorities! It’s almost as if they’ve sort of totally now ditched the working-class, the indigenous people of this country. They don’t really want to touch it. And the Liberal Democrat are the same.

[22:02]

Simon: Well, they completely have, haven’t they. And to continue talking about these kind of people, they must live in a world of complete cognitive dissonance, because of all the parts of the kind of progressive stack are mutually inconsistent with each other.

And I don’t know if you’ve seen the message. There’s a group in our circles called “The Hundred Handers“. A fantastic group who put out leaflets all over the country. And when you read in the papers about “White supremacist hate leaflets” being put in the city, it’s a group of our friends. But one are their leaflets is:

“Islam is right about women.”

Which completely shows the cognitive dissonance that they must be feeling.

Paul: Islam is right about homosexuality!

Simon: [chuckling] It’s exactly the same! But I was reading the other day — I can’t remember the exact quote — but we are kind of living in a “1984” time.

And it seems to me that what the powers that be are trying to make us do is profess to believe increasingly evident lies! You know, we have to go along with transgenderism, Islam is consistent with homosexualism, this complete mass of weirdness!

And it the way to the way to really subjugate people is to make them make them lie to themselves. They have to go along with it and they have to say:

“Yeah transgenders really exist,”

And they have to pay lip service to that. And it’s even more humiliating if you actually start to bleep this stuff out. I mean, this is one of your big points, isn’t it Paul? I know that you’re Christian. I’m a kind of a borderline Christian but I feel that’s part of what us in the on the nationalistic, patriotic end of politics are, we’re people that are true to ourselves. I refuse to lie about this stuff! Two and two make four! Nobody on earth is gonna get me to tell you that they make five!

[24:26]

Paul: Yeah I mean, you know, we are authentic people. We speak the truth from the heart, simple truths, you know, about the nature of the world. But there is a simple truth about the Left, as well as the Liberals. Their agenda is not bringing this coalition together. Their agenda is hatred for us! It’s a hatred for our traditional societies, our traditional faith, a home, Britain, and what we’ve done for the world.

They’re actually united in this desire to destroy us! That’s what brings the Muslims, homosexuals, the feminists, the Marxists, all together in this coalition. I mean, they stay as a coalition, as long as we’re there to be attacked, you know. But the White male, the heterosexual White male from Christendom, that’s the hate figure they want to destroy. And that’s why they’re so sinister, so disturbing.

Horus: This is why I’d say tactically, it makes so much sense for us to encourage them to express that hatred as clearly and acutely as possible, because that gives us the best chance of our people awakening to this anti-White anti-male front that exists.

Paul: You see it best in the Trump derangement syndrome, where they absolutely hate Trump, because he’s a male, he’s White, he’s successful, he’s got a beautiful wife! They hate everything about him!

Horus: It’s amazing, because he’s barely done anything! Like he hasn’t done things anywhere near as bad as George White Bush. For the Left there’s so much more reasons to hate George White. He was responsible for, you know, huge number of deaths and misery and destruction. And Trump and done anything like that. But they hate Trump ten times more!

[26:15]

Paul: Because Trump mobilized the ordinary American patriots, the working-class, the White working-class. He brought them back into the political arena and has made them a political force again. Whether that’ll inspire the next elections is a question. But it really disturbed than that. They thought they destroyed the American patriots under Obama, you know, his eight years as President. They targeted them. They flooded their communities with drugs, they took away their manufacturing jobs. They constantly denigrated them and try to break their spirit! Trump brought them back from the dead! And they really loathe that.

Horus: Yeah, the fact that he just made nods towards ethnic identity, or White racial identity. That was what frightened and infuriated them so much, I think.

Paul: You see that Michigan sort of protest about the lockdown? In Michigan where the White militia turned up, the state militias with their guns. And they were so cocky and confident! And that’s what really disturbs the Left.

Horus: They really are terrified just by the appearance of that. It’s not even them doing anything, it’s just the fact that he exists! And it’s not on its knees. They really infuriates them.

Simon: Okay guys let’s move on a little bit with the conversation.

I was going to be self-indulgent dodging and talk about Jose Antonio. I’ve got his name in this week, because Paul, we got back in touch with me really commenting on my Jose Antonio primo de Rivera. But we’ll talk a little bit more about that Spain a little bit later.

I kind of wanted to do, as we as we kind of getting to know you. And perhaps a lot of the people in the audience don’t know Paul very well. I kind of like to go back a little bit through your history. And obviously I do my research. And you’ll tell me whether this is true, but I found lots of articles about you in the Liverpool Echo. The Liverpool Echo really love you, don’t they Paul.

[28:30]

Paul: Well I’ve stood for Mayor twice and stood for Police Commissioner. And I’ve stood for other political offices. So I got very well known on Merseyside side and engaged with lot of radio phone-ins. And I didn’t pull back, I really attacked the Left. Let them know what I thought about them. And people responded to that and really like it.

Simon: Okay this is, I mean, you can tell me if this is true I’ve got no idea this is what the Liverpool Echo says about you:

“As a young man growing up in Liverpool he was a member of the Labour Party and flirted with militant tendency. He later joined the Conservatives, the BNP, and more recently UKIP. And has now landed in the English Democrats and wants to be mayor of his home city.”

So perhaps I thought what we could do is we could go back through your political journey. I don’t know if it’s true whether you flirted with militants, or not. But I was a member of the Labour Party, probably around about the same same time as you were more on the Left. And I think it’s a very interesting thing to hear is how people go through their lives and finally reach, or when they reach the kind of, when they finally see the light when it comes to patriotism and nationalism.

So let’s go back to when you were a very young man. Were you involved with militants? This would have been cs.

[29:55]

Paul: Well I mean, my political odyssey started in the 1970s with the National Front. You know, first of all Enoch Powell, and then the National Front. Because in 1976 the National Front swept this nation! Swept the working-class communities, culturally, not politically. But we were all National Front supporters in north Liverpool. And there we were all on board to save this nation. We had an instinctive patriotism, an instinctive love of our people and we realized we were under threat. And in those days the White working-class was powerful. It was the biggest group in society and it could impose itself.

And it was only Mrs. Thatcher sort of picked up the National Front agenda. Started talking about putting White people at the top of council housing lists! Mrs. Thatcher used that language, “White people”. She started talking about the immigrants were threatening to swamp our cities and had to be stopped. And there so she sort of realized what way it was going into and she bought it. And she siphoned off that agenda and siphoned off the votes. So in 1979 Mrs. Thatcher won a very substantial majority in the general election.

And she brought out the Nationality Act. And she put down on immigration very quickly. And she started to stop the political correctness in the state system. And this led to the Toxteth riots [a Liverpool suburb] as a reaction in their sort of ethnic communities. But it’s really bizarre this, but in June 1979 the Conservatives won the European elections in Liverpool. People think Liverpool’s a left-wing city. In 1979 Liverpool backed Margaret Thatcher, believe it, or not. But, it then all went sour very quickly. When the recession hit, monetarism. She allowed Sterling to go too high, unemployment suddenly mushroomed to three million.

People were getting very disturbed by her agenda and the whole city just moved dramatically to the Left. And I was carried along with that tide. And I heard people in the militant tendency, preaching their message. And it had a passion in it! And it was a sort of was a rallying call to the people of Liverpool. And I was swept along in that.

[32:10]

And I read the Communist Manifesto. And I thought this is reality! This is what’s happening now! This is showing us away forward! And I bought into it completely. And then I got involved with militants and got involved with the Trotskyites, and explored Marxism. I mean, I read everything, you know, I devoured it! And I was really committed. I was really militant for about two years, three years.

And then I started to question it. I started to question, the people involved in it. Started to question it’s hostility to liberty and to our traditions. And I just became disillusioned with it, you know, to be honest. And, of course, in 1983 Margaret Thatcher won the general election, and the Left, the wind was taken out of its sail. And it was a new dawn in Britain really.

And I was a boxer, so I was around sort of military types at University, Cambridge. And I started to associate more with them and with it with their view of the world. And I read Roger Scruton’s book “The Meaning of Conservatism” [published 1980] and it give me this sort of intellectual ideological depth to take on the Left. And I just completely changed sides.

But really I was going back, I was reverting to what I believed as a kid, you know, to my instinctive patriotism, way back in 1976. I just reconnected with that. So I regard the whole left-wing period as just an aberration really. It was just part of that time. And a lot of working-class people were caught up in it. And I think a lot of us are shaking it off.

Simon: And then you joined, you actually joined the Conservative Party, didn’t you, throughout the Thatcher period?

Paul: I never got involved though in activism. And I went to work in the City of London which was a very conservative thing to do. But then I sort of, I mean, politics lost a bit of edge, you know, in the late 80s, early 90s. Things calmed down. Thatcher went didn’t she in 1990. Major come to the fore.

But I was very disturbed by the Maastricht Treaty. And I began to realize this was going to be a big issue in the future. I could see the way we were conceding more and more ground to the European Union. And this was impact on our sovereignty. And I thought eventually, it’s gonna impact everything! Including our control of our borders and immigration.

[34:33]

But don’t forget when John Major lost a general election 1997, immigration into this country was only 50,000 per year! So it was minuscule compared to today. I mean, it’s more than ten times that now. So it wasn’t a very big issue.

But I’ve become aware that demographically the West was being left behind by Islam, by India, and Africa. And as the youths were building up in these areas, we were aging, our population was aging. And I saw, I realized there was a danger there. There was a danger that we were actually going to be overwhelmed by the youthful vigor of these other continents. And we had to change direction. And I was really concerned about the level of abortion in Britain. And the fact the families are getting smaller and smaller. But it wasn’t panic stations at that point!

But when Blair won the election in 97, you know, like yourself Simon, I’ve been in the Labour party. And I knew what the Labour Party’s agenda was! I knew they were gonna hand over all our sovereignty to the European Union. They were gonna break up the United Kingdom! You were gonna flood the country with immigrants, on a vast scale!

And I tried to I try to warm people in 1997. Don’t vote for Blair, he’s a danger! But people were blind! They were so bought in by Blair, they believed in Tony Blair so much in 1997! It disillusioned me about the British people. I thought:

“Can they be manipulated so easily?”

Because I knew exactly what Blair and Mandelson were up to! And for me, that was that the day of catastrophe when they took power. And then I went back to nationalism, really, to the National Front in a sense. I went back to the British National Party. Because they were the only party that was speaking the truth on these issues.

[36:24]

Simon: Let’s go back a bit to, I think we might have a slight, or certainly Horus will, slightly different disagreement, and I will too. I’ve heard you speak quite praisingly, quite glowingly of Margaret Thatcher. But being — as we said before we came on the street stream — I was born in Nottingham. Lived in the northwest, lived in a very nice village in the northwest throughout my adolescence. But then went back to Nottingham for University. And I was there back in Nottingham from 1978 till kind of late 1984.

And throughout all that period I was kind of strongly anti-Thatcher. I was definitely a lefty throughout those periods. And kind of looking back on that period is, it’s very but very difficult to see Thatcher positively. Yeah a lot of the rhetoric is more patriotic, more, yeah home ownership.

But basically she ripped the flesh, she ripped the bones out of the northern industrial working class. She closed down the steel industry. The miners strike, I suppose the unions had to be broken. But now we don’t produce any coal. And in many respects my politics have changed, but I can’t help but seeing Margaret Thatcher as overall being a bad thing for Britain. I’m guessing you’ll disagree with me here.

[38:00]

Paul: Well my perspective was from, I went down south you see. So I saw the surge in prosperity in the south. And I knew eventually would actually go up north. When Margaret Thatcher began her attack on the trade unions and the imposition of monetarism, I think it was something like 365 leading economists wrote to the Guardian a letter and said:

“This is going to lead to economic catastrophe! It’s gonna destroy the British economy!”

But within two years the British economy was growing at 4% per annum. It was the fastest growing economy in Europe. And the investment just poured into this country. Because I was down south the investment initially went there. I saw the redevelopment! I saw factories being set up. I mean, Cambridge itself become a great industrial technological center. I saw a vast wealth. And in London the property prices started to surge. Stock market started to surge. And it was like a Renaissance of Britain. And, of course, Margaret Thatcher was a great figure on the international stage. Ronald Reagan loved her.

She began to influence the Communists. They began to listen to her ideas. Privatization, of course, was a big thing, creating efficiency in the public sector. And communism fell. I think Margaret Thatcher was sort of, was very much responsible for the victory in the Cold War. Of course, we also had the Falklands War as well.

Now, there was an underlying nationalism in Maggie. I mean, when I listened to her, I began to realize she had a passion about Britain and the British people! She really believed in our history. She really believed we had a mission in the world. And the English-speaking world was a Churchillian view really, and she was linked up with America. And she saw us as a leading light, and it inspired me! Because I’d got used to being in a decline and negativity in Liverpool! I’ve got used to like communist waffle and nonsense and people abusing the public sector. The inefficiency of the public sector, and the sense of national defeatism. You know, the hostility to Britain imposing itself on the world. And I’d grown tired of that.

And I think Thatcher was very inspirational! And I think I still think was a great tragedy that she was pulled down in 1990, because I think we would have left the European Union a lot earlier, to be honest.

[40:16]

Simon: Okay, that might be true, but my question is really what did Thatcher conserve? My big gripe, you know, the part of Nottingham where my family are traditionally from. My grandad —once again, everyone in the stream knows this — my granddad was a trade union leader, drove the buses, Transport and General Workers Union. The family had lived in my great, great, great, great — plenty of greats — was the first blacksmith on the river Leen before Radford even existed.

We were kind of an established family in Radford. And Radford had the Raleigh factory, the Players factory, and the pit. It was one of those traditional working-class communities where you could, I mean, I’m talking to up to the age of 10, 11, before we moved to the northwest, where everybody was auntie this, or uncle that, or where I could go into any house for an orange juice.

And really the miners strike was a massive turning point! It was becoming degraded already by the time I gone back to university. Because I actually had digs in the part of town where my family was from. So I was really going back to my roots. But really, the miners strike destroyed the Midlands and the north. I’ve got no idea, I haven’t been back to Liverpool for a long time.

But I can never really forgive Thatcher for that. And to be perfectly honest, you can talk to me about GDP and the economy all you like, but really what I want to say, I don’t care whether the economy’s booming, because if that money’s going to the wealthy, well it’s going into their pockets.

What I care about is the well-being, and now not in a kind of socialist way. In very much a kind of Jose Antonio primo de Rivera way! You’ve got to you have to look after the people. And I think Thatcher didn’t do this. Certainly not down our way.

[42:22]

Paul: I was down south and I was being told how desperate Liverpool was. And, you know, our poor the city had become, how shabby and sort of demoralized. I remember going back up north for me sort of break at the end of University. And the street where I lived, there was BMWs there. There was a Jaguar there. There was all sorts of flashy cars we had never seen before.

I mean, I just come from a working-class community and people were buying the council houses and renovating the council houses. People would actually become an entrepreneurial. They were starting their own companies! This is the true spirit of Britain! We’re not a nation that that buys into communism. We’re a nation that buys into enterprise, and actually, you know, making things happen, we’re a creative people. And I thought that was very much the sort of socialist propaganda that was being sold to us.

But there’s another factor as well, because I’m not an economic determinist. I don’t think people are shaped by the economy. I think people are shaped by cultural factors. And what really led to the collapse of the extended family, and the contraction in the number of children people had, and so on, was a turning away from Christianity.

I mean, it was the Labour Party in 1967 that brought abortion into this country. It was the Labour Party that legalized homosexuality! It was the Labour Party that made divorce easy! It was the Labour Party that undermined the social fabric of working-class communities.

And Margaret Thatcher understood this, because she always wanted to win back the inner cities and to revive them in a true British mode. But it proved very difficult, because the Labour Party had a grip on them. It’s only this recent election now, 2019, that the Labour Party’s finally lost it’s grip on the White working class in this country. And it was long overdue!

[44:12]

Simon: Sorry, I just switched my mic on. Horus, you’re a great, … I kind of accept your points Paul, but, you know, we have to have a productive conversation here. Horus, you’re a great critic of the Conservative Party, aren’t you? Have you got anything, any come back on Paul for this?

Horus: Yeah, probably that applies least to Thatcher though. I think she is one Tory who got a few things right.

Simon: That’s, because you’re a monetarist, aren’t you!

Horus: I’m not a monetarist. I’m against monetarism! Monetarism is bollocks. No, I’m an Austrian, … Yeah, she likes Hayek. And he was the worst of the Austrian school as well. But I like other Austrian school economists.

But with the miner’s strike, that was more, or less forced upon her. She prepared for it well, or you could say cynically. But that was caused, in my opinion, by NUM, or by the revolutionary leadership of the NUM, and by Scargill in particular. He was a revolutionary socialist! And he saw an opportunity, he believed wrongly, to bring her down and perhaps to bring down democracy, really. And to impose a “workers democracy”, you know, communist rule, basically.

It wouldn’t have been the same as the Soviet Union. But that was his aim. And. I don’t think she was closing, her government was closing mines any faster than Callahan and Wilson’s government had. As far as I could see, from what data I’ve seen, it might be manipulated. But from what I’ve seen, it was a pretty steady rate of closure going through the 70s, into the 80s. But whenever the Tories get into power — I saw this for the first time in my own life in 2007, very, very clearly — Labor, sorry the Left, just become one mass that swings into action! And they all know, they’re all ready, they all know that their program is to just bring down the Tories in any way they can.

[46:30]

And in the eighties, the Tories triggered a recession in the start of the eighties. So I mean, they sort of gave the Left an opportunity to attack them there. Didn’t quite bring her down, it was by a hair’s breadth that she hung on. But she did. Then the Falklands, they hoped, they supported the Argentine dictatorship, more, or less, hoping that would bring her down. And that didn’t go very well for them.

And then, they saw an opportunity with Scargill to try and bring her down. And yes, she sort of provoked the strike in some ways, by preparing for it. But that’s, because he was already pushing for it. And Scargill, he tried two, or three times, before he called the strike to get the NUM to vote for it. And they wouldn’t! The ordinary members didn’t want the strike. And eventually, after I think two, or three attempts, he just called a strike anyway, with minority support within his own Union. And the strike failed, partly, because several regions, I think, … Nottinghamshire might been one of them? Or Derbyshire?

Simon: Yeah. The Notts men, … Everybody hates Cargill! I mean, this is something I’ve argued about most of my life. I’m playing devil’s advocate with you a little bit Paul.

Paul: Yeah

Simon: But Scargill was a complete disaster. You see what you have to realize is that Notts and Yorkshire — I’m from, I’m Nottinghamshire born and bred, and pits are the best! Our coal seam is the best, that’s it! And what Scargill did, without consulting the Notts men he sent flying pickets down, and just put them outside the pit.

[48:20]

Paul: I remember it well.

Horus: Terroristic, right? Terroristic action!

Simon: And so the Notts men who tended to be more conservative and certainly didn’t like a Yorkshireman leading them, anyway. This just provoked them, not to come out. So basically Scargill scuppered it from the start off.

Horus: Attacking his own men?

Simon: Yeah. Completely!

Horus: Attacking his own class?

Simon: A completely ridiculous tactic!

Paul: I actually think though that there’s a lot of mythologizing about the coal industry. Digging for coal is a very primitive activity! It’s what people basically do in the Third World, now. I mean, if you can create a Technology Park, it would generate more wealth than any coal mines. I mean, the price of coal was collapsing in the 1980s, that’s why they didn’t need the pits. They could bring it in from Australia at 7 pound a ton! Seven pound for a ton of coal! I mean, how many tons of coal did you need to buy a BMW car? You want technology! We want a sophisticated productive economy.

We don’t want an economy based on primitive industry! So we had to move away from the coal industry. And it’s not a good job to go down and dig coal underground. It’s a very dangerous job, it’s very unpleasant. But to be honest. I don’t think it’s a job that we should be doing today. You know, I think it’s a very primitive job.

So all this mythologizing of the coal industry, I didn’t buy into it. But what was really significant about Thatcher was, she wasn’t Hayekian! She listened to the Austrian School of Economics, but that wasn’t where the heart was.

[49:55]

I was a Cambridge at the time and I was a bigger fan of Roger Scruton. And Roger Scruton mentor was a guy called Morris Cowling. He was a big friend of Enoch Powell. And they used to have a seminar in Peterhouse College. And Cowling would be there, Powell be there, Roger Scruton would turn up and Margaret Thatcher would turn up. That was it, she was a Tory nationalist, Margaret Thatcher. But here it was all about Britain.

When she died and they had a big funeral for her at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London. I went down to the funeral, and I gave her a speech in a pub afterwards with all the Tories. Where there was Tory MPs there. Michael Howard was there. And I said:

“Margaret Thatcher in essence was, she believed in Britain! She believed in the British spirit! She believed in the British people! And she believed that Britain could play a key role in the future of the world. And had a key role to play!”

Now a lot of Tories were really lifted by that.

But there was a group of Asian conservatives there, Hindus. There was a lot of Hindus now in the Tory Party. And they actually booed me when I said that. They said I was being fascististic, you know, for saying something like that. But that’s the essence of Margaret Thatcher. That she was a patriot. And that’s why really I admired her.

Horus: Morris Cowling is a fascinating character. He was quite working-class like her, wasn’t he? I think in origin.

Paul: He’s a tough cookie Morris Cowling! Didn’t take fools lightly, I tell you.

Horus: Do you remember about Scruton, they were like, sort of lower middle class, or working class, in origin? They weren’t toffs.

Paul: Roger Scruton’s father was a trade unionist and a Labour Party supporter.

Horus: Hmm. And Jonathan Bowden’s speech on Morris Cowling was really good. Have you heard that?

Paul: No. I mean, I was a great friend of Jonathan Bowden. It was just a tragedy when he died, aged 49. That man was a fantastic orator! I attended a lot of meetings where he spoke! We spoke together on many platforms. Real tragedy when he died.

[51:48]

Horus: Coming across his speeches, I think shortly after he died, maybe in the year after he died, was the first time I ever heard of him. I came across his speeches on YouTube. And that was the biggest red pill of all for me, because I was listening to something on YouTube and then it auto-played without me, you know, I was doing something else on my computer. And it auto-played on to a Bowden speech. And an hour passed and I looked down at the bottom, I was like that was interesting. What channel is this? And it was a BNP channel.

And until then in my life I’d never permit myself to click on anything to do with the BNP, right? Because I was just completely indoctrinated against all that. And just wholly believe that that was black magic! You don’t open that book! You know, I did by accident and he won me over, just like that.

Paul: I went to a meeting at the Irish National Party in Belfast. These are like it an anti-Sinn Féin Irish nationalists, genuine nationalists. And there was for a lot of lads there from West Belfast, you know, Catholic lads. So I said to them:

“So, how could you come here today and you’ve given up on Sinn Féin.”

And they said:

“We’ve all been listening to Jonathan Bowden on the Internet!”

Lol wow this guy I mean, I used to listen to his speeches, and I take a DVD home with the speeches. I’d listen to it 20 times! It was an education. I was amazed! And he’s still under-rated now. He still needs to be promoted more.

Horus: You’ve got any speeches that people haven’t seen already? You could publicize them, like people are gagging for more Bowden material. There’s speeches that people rumor about, that seemed not to have been recorded. And people are like:

“If we could only get this one!”

So if you’ve got any that aren’t already on YouTube.

Paul: There’s a guy in Wigan called Dr. Charles Martha, who sort of led the BNP in the northwest of England. Ex Labour guy but a [word unclear], but a great man. And Jonathan Bowden would just turn up at a meeting in a pub in St. Helens, or in Wigan and give one of his speeches, you know! And Charles Martha would actually film it. So he made DVDs of all these speeches. You know, he’s got quite a collection. I think someone needs to connect with them, you know, and release them. Because they are amazing speeches!

[54:04]

Horus: That would be gold dust! If there’s more you could put out there, that’d be amazing!

Paul: . I don’t think there’s been anybody in modern British politics who can touch Jonathan Bowden. For, you know, the way he would open up the cultural nature of conservativism. The way he’d talk about the glory of Britain. And his insight into actual politics, world politics, was unique!

Horus: I realized one one step when I realized how brilliant he was when I listened to his speech about Punch and Judy! Which I’ve never, you know, it’s a topic I never cared about whatsoever! And suddenly Punch and Judy’s really interesting! He’s brilliant! Because he I think he used to perform Punch and Judy shows sometimes as well.

Paul: [laughter] He was a very eccentric character Jonathan Bowden! You wondered where he came from! He was like a visitor from another planet! [chuckling]

Horus: I think many people, …

Paul: I think he must have had a super intellect. I think he had a Mensa IQ, because his mine was just a treasury, you know. But tragically, 49 he died!

Simon: That kind that kind of brings us on, going through your history really. Because we’ve done the Tory Party, Conservative Party. Then you were a BNP member weren’t you? Obviously this is where you coincided with Jonathan Bowden. What year did you join the BMP?

Paul: Well, I had almost given up hope in 2001 after Labour got reelected and the Tories were going nowhere. And suddenly Nick Griffin emerged in Oldham. And had that famous election where he muted his own mouth, you know, he put a thing around his mouth. And then I thought there’s some hope here! That Briton, there’s still some hope.

[55:56]

And then in 2002, they won some council seats in Burnley. I mean, it’s very hard to win elections in Britain, because they’re all first past the post, of course. And that’s when I joined. I thought, I’ve gotta get involved with this. Because I had boxed at Cambridge and so had Nick, so we had that connection. So I thought, I want to get behind him and make what contribution I can. What a fantastic journey that was! I was in it for 10 years. And the BNP was a tragedy when it collapsed! But for 10 years it was rockin, you know.

Simon: And this is the kind of, … I suppose this is really, you mentioned that you are aware of the Islamification of Britain previously. But this is one of the great misnomers isn’t it? That it was the EDL that revealed the grooming gangs and what was happening in the north of England. But, in fact, it was many, perhaps what, 2005, 2006 it was the BNP that were talking about this, even that early on.

Paul: Well the truth is, a lot of people were aware of what these Pakistanis were up to, these Pakistani grooming gangs. And they were basically fishing for our kids! You know, driving around in cars and they’re getting to know the young girls, and grooming them, and turning then into heroin addicts and prostitutes! And people would irate about this! But, the police wouldn’t listen to any complaints! The police were totally doing the Labour Party’s bidding! And the media wouldn’t listen to it. And ordinary people couldn’t make an impact on this situation.

But the BNP, because they were so well organized and so motivated! And so effective as well! They were a very professional party the BNP. They started to rattle the police and the media. And they started to a real campaign against these grooming gangs, especially in places like Keithley in Burnley. And they started to win council seats in these area. So they had political representatives you could speak out on behalf of these girls who were being groomed.

And we got a crescendo going! We got a movement going! And that’s when I saw the anti-democratic nature of the British State. The police came down on us like a ton of bricks! I mean, members of the BNP were beaten up by operatives of the state. People started to have their bank accounts closed, and then the arrests began.

[58:12]

And the arrested both Nick Griffin and Mark Collett. He was there right at the hub of it. And they went to court in Leeds, I think it was, 2005. And it become a big national case! And that was really when the whole nation became aware of what was going on with these grooming gangs. So yeah, I mean, EDL picked it up. But it was the BNP who led the fight back. The BNP were brilliant mobilizing working-class communities in the north of England, and the Midlands. And in London as well. And winning elections! I mean, they won over a hundred council seats! They won county council seats. And then eventually, of course, they won MEPs. [Member of the European Parliament]

But that was a danger then, because the establishment were fully mobilize against us. I mean, with a big organization we had maybe 17, 18 thousand members, official members. We had tens of thousands of non-official members. We would hold up meetings in Liverpool, 150 people would turn up!

I mean, I remember speaking at Lee in Lancashire, and there was over two hundred people in this pub listening to the speech. And this was a heartland of the Labour Party. Labor had held this seat since the First World War. And we were mobilizing the people of Lee behind us. But the Labour Party managed to thwart us from winning that seat. But Lee just voted Tory and I think we put down roots there in our campaigns in that decade between 2000, 2010, which have finally come to fruition now.

And the BNP, the fact that it collapsed so quickly was a tragedy. Because we used to have red White and blue, we’d have this summer fete, you know, where people come from all over the country. And we did can with the English people! It was the first time since 1976 when the National Front swept this nation, that we saw a nationalist movement sweep this nation! Because when Griffin won a seat in 2009 in the European elections, I can remember people coming to Liverpool town centre to party! Ordinary, working-class people. At last we had a voice, but tragically it collapsed very quickly.

[60:17]

Horus: Do you attribute the collapse largely to the activities of the state? Or to several different things, or what?

Paul: The state turned the screw, but Griffin played the wrong game. Instead of bending slightly, … I mean, when a strong wind comes, a tree must bend, or it will break. He should have bent. He refused to allow ethnic minorities into the party. And he actually went to court to defend that. And he wasn’t gonna win that case!

And the British people, I mean, they didn’t want the full board of nationalism. But they were keen on the policies we were offering, and they were keen on a lot of the solutions we were offering. And we had that support! We had we started to touch people’s hearts. It was fantastic to see! I mean, I saw in Liverpool. We got six thousand votes in Liverpool, you know, which had been a Left wing city for a long time.

And we would go round with a trailer, a jeep with a trailer behind, with the BNP on, and we’d blast our music, and the people would come out to the houses to buy newspapers off us and stuff. We were really impacting this nation. Well, I think Obama’s victory in 2008, was very much a check on us, because the Americans wanted us killed off as well. And they had the deep state, the British deep state began to work against us. And, as I say, we don’t live in a democratic society.

I can remember having pub meetings where there’d be 30, 40, 50 people just turned up to hear a few speeches, have a drink, socialize. The police would raid it! Like we were involved in a criminal activity! They would threaten the landlord, who would eject us from the pub! It was criminal activity by the state! And I began to think, the British state was acting like an East European communist state. It was really scary stuff.

[62:11]

And that they saw us as a threat. And. I don’t think the time was quite right for us to achieve much more to be honest. We passed the baton on to UKIP. And they got us out of the EU. But we’ve lost a lot of the nationalist sort of ideology, and we need to rekindle a nationalist movement in Britain. It’s desperate now! We really do.

Simon: Sorry. Go ahead.

Horus: No, go ahead Simon.

Simon: Because then you ended up leaving the BNP, didn’t you? And you joined UKIP, was it with UKIP was that the first time you stood for political office?

Paul: No. I stood for the English Democrats initially. And I did well in Liverpool. And I had a good campaign and UKIP noticed this. And they approached me and said:

“Look, why don’t you stand for us? You can stand there in Liverpool for UKIP. We’ve got a bigger platform than the English Democrats and we will support you.”

But then UKIP began to come under pressure for accepting exBNP people. And Farage panicked. You know, the media were threatening to sort of start to denigrate him and accuse him of being a fascist, and so on. He panicked and said:

“No we’ve got to get the BNP out the party!”

So I was told that I couldn’t stand as mayor for Liverpool for UKIP. So I stood for the English Democrats, instead. And I got 7,000 votes for Police Commissioner, which was quite a decent vote for Liverpool.

Simon: So, how long were you with the English Democrats? A lot of the press you get in Liverpool, is from that period, isn’t, I’m guessing?

Paul: Well I was arrested. I was arrested twice. And they were big court cases. Once I went into a police station and said:

“What’s the flag above the police station? Where’s the Union flag?”

He said:

“Oh. This is a gay flag!”

It was the gay rainbow flag. And I said:

“I don’t think that is right, flying that above a police station!”

But they arrested me and charged me with homophobia! And it become a big case! It got national attention! And Eric Pickles* had to make the gay flag an official police flag, because I counter-attacked, and charged the police flying this flag illegally, which they were.

[* Pickles was the Chairman of the Conservative Party from 2009 to 2010 and is currently the chairman of Conservative Friends of Israel. He is the United Kingdom Special Envoy for post-Holocaust issues, being appointed in 2015.]

[64:20]

You need special permission to fly a non-official flag above a police station. They didn’t have it! And had them on the run, the police. So that become a big case in Liverpool. That got me a lot of attention. But I stood for the mayor twice, and I crossed swords with their Joe Anderson, who’s the Liberal mayor in the debates. And I really put him in his place! And I got a lot of a attention.

Simon: Horus?

Horus: Eric Pickles is, even by Tory standards, an outstandingly contemptible prat! [chuckling] Oh God!

I was just I was quite stirred by what you said about the BNP. Like how well things were going for a while. And you said we need now, like something, I don’t know what was the term you used was, but something to spark off that kind of excitement again. Do you feel, …

Paul: A nationalist revival.

Horus: Yeah. I mean, did you see, …

Paul: Well, it’s happening in Europe! I mean, it’s happening in Italy would Salvini, before, you know, the coronavirus episode. And the brothers of Italy. It’s obviously, it’s had its day in France with Marine Le Pen. And then Simon must know about the Vox Party in Spain. Their recent performance has been astonishing in Spanish elections.

Simon: Yeah, very much.

Paul: I think there’s an appetite there! There’s an appetite there for a patriotic force, you know. But you are going to have to battle against the state!

Horus: Yeah.

Paul: What is really positive at the moment, is that the Left are totally demoralized! They’ve lost so many elections! They’ve been pushed out of power. And they don’t seem to have the will now to resist us.

I think if we moved up a gear. I mean, but I could see what Paul Golding and Britain first, … I mean, Paul Golding is an amazing political activist! He can create big things out to nothing! He have three million followers on Facebook. I mean, he had a campaign in Northern Ireland recently, it’s only exploded out of nowhere! But the state come down on him like a ton of bricks! They persecuted him. This is the problem, the deep state now. They are thwarting democratic activity in Britain. It’s very sinister!

[66:35]

Horus: Simon didn’t you put in the show notes for tonight’s show something saying like when we’re talking about persecution of say Paul Golding, or Tommy Robinson. We need to generally back each other across the dividing lines of our movements. Was that your words, or were you quoting Paul there?

Simon: I can’t remember what I said. When I put these show notes together I kind of cut and paste from lots of places. It’s definitely my sentiment. I think it’s a very important thing. Broadly we need to be supporting people.

Horus: I think the powers will be turning against all of us, obviously.

Simon: Yeah. And one of the important things about speaking to Paul, I think, you know, once we kind of realized that it was a good vibe, then a couple of weeks ago I said to Paul:

“Why don’t we talk about nationalism via email?”

So we’ve exchanged a few emails. And we seem to be more, or less in the same place. So it makes a lot of sense for all of us to know that we are working towards similar objectives. And broadly giving support to people when they come into trouble, I think.

Paul: Well the likes of Tommy and Paul Golding. I mean, Paul Golding’s been arrested more than ten times! And he’s been incarcerated. And he’s been fined. And he’s had this bank account closed so many times. I mean, not being arrested three times. And each time I’ve been vindicated! I’ve turned the tables on the police. I’ve actually prosecuted the police! Because if you get to know the legal system, you begin to realize that they just ride roughshod over the laws of this country! They think they can do what they want, the police.

[68:21]

Now the thing is with my prosecutions of the police, they went a long way, but they weren’t successful. Because when it looks like you’re going to defeat the police, the Crown Prosecution Service takes over the case, and closes it! You cannot defeat the police! It’s Orwellian what they have done to our state!

But yeah, this could be the problem for nationalist parties in the future. That they’ll use legal means to try and thwart us at every turn. I mean, Tony Blair introduced in 1998 “hate crimes”, you know, this novel idea that’s what you think could now be criminalized. And since then there’s been a whole series of laws which have limited how we can express ourselves. And even our freedom of assembly.

I mean, I was prosecuted in Northern Ireland, virtually for nothing! I made a speech which was pretty, you know, it was a very moderate speech, deliberately so. It was outside the City Hall in Belfast. And I realized it was a dangerous place to make the speech. I didn’t want to promote the authorities there. I made a very moderate speech and then three months later my house was raided by the police! And I was dragged to Northern Ireland to face a criminal prosecution! Which went on for two years! They got me involved in a criminal case which lasted two years, just to thwarth my political activity. This is how the State now operates in Britain! It’s deeply disturbing! It’s deeply undemocratic!

I mean, we’ve got Trump taken on the deep state in America. I’m hoping that if he gets reelected and he cleanses that state, and gets rid of all these sort of the globalist operatives. And that would come over here and Trump will say:

“Clean up your act in Britain and let democracy go forth.”

[70:12]

Simon: I think it was just a bit, … Excuse me. But I think you’re a bit optimistic about Trump. I mean, Trump has been in office for four years, and he really hasn’t built the wall. He hasn’t cleaned the swamp. You can see from the Epstein death that the swamp hasn’t been cleaned at all. They’re still, you know, sliming about all over the place.

Really what makes you think that if he gets in again, isn’t he just going to be kind of treading water and running out his term? And a little bit like the Tories. Yes, he dog whistles to nationalism, which is why he’s not liked. But when it really comes down to its he actually doesn’t do very much. And it by the same token Boris Johnson isn’t gonna do very much. Boris Johnson, the Left call him a fascist and a Nazi, but in reality these people are pretty much as globalist as anybody else. They just come out with the nationalist rhetoric.

Paul: I think Johnson’s a comedian like figure. He judges the environment and he fits in with it. If Trump can get reelected and pursue a truly nationalistic agenda in America, I think Johnson will follow that lead. But the thing is with Trump, Trump is a miracle! He came from nowhere! The globalist had taken over America. I mean, John Brennan and Comey, the head of the CIA, and FBI. John Brennan was a communist, an Islamic convert. I mean, Comey is just a liberal Lefty. And the Left had taken over the media in America. It was taking over the State, it was taking over a lot of the State governments, it was controlling Congress. It looked like America was lost!

[72:01]

I remember Jonathan Bowden said:

“America was gonna go down first and we’ll follow!”

But Trump came from nowhere and he mobilized the American patriotic spirit! And he’s faced horrendous opposition! I mean, judicial opposition initially. Everything he tried to do was blocked in the courts. He had to get the Supreme Court appointments, which enabled them to free up a lot of his movements. And then, of course, he lost the House of Representatives in the midterms, which thwarted a lot of his economic agenda.

But he got a big tax cut through. The wall is being built. I don’t know how much of it as being built! I don’t know how much of it is being built but it certainly is being built. He has certainly cut down massively on immigration into America. I mean, it was when these big trains going up through Mexico, in managed to tear them back. It’s almost miraculous! But he’s changed the culture of America’s! He polarized America!

And he’s mobilized the patriots to fight back against the Left. They were demoralized, the patriots. He mobilized them and he’s built up this alternative media. And there’s a big body of people now in America, he’s got maybe 60, 65 million people in the Trump train, who are ready to fight for America, and a patriots in America, against the Left. And it’s the first time in decades that the Left has really been put on the back foot. So given the opposition that he faced, I’m really impressed with what Trump achieved.

Simon: I would say, but he hasn’t turned around the demographics! The demographics are, you know, the original, or the original colonists, the White European colonists of America have been given a little bit of leeway, perhaps a little bit of extra time, but ultimately America is going to fall. This has got to be turned around. The person that we had on last week Gavin Boby, one of the expressions that I’ve always learned from him regarding immigration and demographics, he always used to sayc, or I think he still does say:

“Slow the tide, stop the tide, turn the tide!”

And really with this issue — I don’t know if you were aware — but here in Britain in 2066 the indigenous Britons are no longer going to be a majority in this country. Now these things have significant effects on the culture.

[74:23]

Paul: I think it’s going to be long before 2066! I think we’ve got, at the most, 15 years, realistically. Because the under forties group, it’s almost 25 percent now. I mean, what gives us this big advantage demographically, is the over 70s but the over 70s are going to die off very quickly.

And yeah Trump, … I like that expression of stopping and slowing down and turning around, because we were in a ship that was going the wrong way, we’re heading to the rocks, we were heading for national disaster! And these people at the top — the Merkels, the Clintons — this is exactly what they wanted, which is really disturbing!

But Trump got control of the ship, become the pilot, and he’s slowed it down as it’s heading to the rocks. And I think he started to turn around. It’s a process, it’s gonna take time. But I think Trump’s heart in the right place.

Trump has not come from a globalist perspective. He was in the Reform Party with Ross Perot. He’s always been on the fringe of American politics. Trump’s father was accused to be in a member of the Ku Klux Klan and Trump was a huge admirer of his father. I think Trump’s heart is much more aligned and nationalist than people actually give him credit. Dont know if you agree with that?

Simon: Yeah, Horus? Sorry I was switching my mic on. Any thoughts on this? I’m much less optimistic about Trump. I think Trump is a good optics. Trump looks good but, you know, he had John Bolton in his, … He’s controlled! He’s not free to act. His heart might be in the right place, but I’ve not seen enough action. I’m sorry Paul. Horus. What do you think?

[76:17]

Horus: I like Paul’s optimism. I would love to see Trump do radical, sort of deep state, swamp draining in the second term. But yeah, it doesn’t seem at all likely to me. My impression is that Trump is maybe completely compromised by Israel. I’m not sure, but maybe via Epstein? Epstein. I’m not sure. Like the zionist control of the US to me, just seems almost total! And I reckon Trump might be just one of their instruments. Maybe almost every President candidate is? I’m not sure.

Paul: I think Trump’s boxing very clever with the jewish lobby in America! Because he’s split them. I mean, 80% of the jews vote Democrat, and the left-leaning, the ultra globalist. But there is 20% of them there that are conservative leaning. And he’s managed to bring them on board. Because if Trump had gone totally against the jewish lobby he would have been totally destroyed.

I mean, when Obama was re-elected in 2012, the jews in America was saying:

“We’ve taken over America! We’re the ruling elite now!”

They were actually saying that explicitly. So when Trump won and threw Clinton off in 2016, they were very annoyed about that. And they had the power to bring Trump down

He had to win a slice of their support, and he managed to do that. And the way he’s done it is linking up with Likud and the ultra zionists in Israel. But and putting them against the Liberals in America.

Don’t forget the people who are really opposing Trump — Soros, Schumer, Shiff, [word unclear] — they’re all New York jews, you know. They’re all incredibly wealthy people on Wall Street. And they’ve got a heck of a lot of clout!

[78:02]

So to counteract that, he’s had to bring other jews on board who will defend him. But what really matters to me about Trump is that he is coming in from the West to save Europe. From the East we got Vladamir Putin. And I see Trump and Putin as very, almost like coworkers in throwing off the globalist control of the world. Because Putin, he’s so important to us, because he’s re-Christianized Russia, and he’s revived Russian nationalism, and he’s revived traditionalism in Russia. Russia has got no toleration of the homosexual agenda, they’re stopping abortions now in Russia. Starting to see an increase in the birthrate in Russia for the first time in a long time.

And this is what we need. And this has fed into Poland. It’s fed into Hungary. So it’s coming in from the East. Trump from the West. And we’re seeing the emergence of all these nationalist figures in Europe like Salvini, Thierry Baudet in the Netherlands. Vlaams Belang in Belgium, you know, Santiago Pascal in Spain. Marine Le Pen is going in France.

And so there’s hope! There’s hope! These figures are emerging, and they’re very significant figures. And they’re there and at every point they can challenge the globalists. And we need this international wave, we need this international alliance of nationalists! I mean, you can go extra-Europe, you can go to Abe in Japan, you can go to Duarte in the Philippines. And, of course, very importantly Modi in India! The Indian nationalists, especially in the fight back against Islam.

And there’s a new dialectic in the world now. It used to be Left against Right, freedom against communism. Now it’s nationalism against globalism!

And we’re not coming from a position of weakness. We might be doing so in Britain, itself, although we hope it can come back and change. But globally the nationalist forces are becoming stronger and stronger!

And so we can be optimistic that we can actually win this battle! And that’s really since 2016, since Trump’s election. And I think we can feel that. We can actually overcome globalism!

[80:11]

Horus: Which side is Jerusalem on?

Paul: Jerusalem is always on all sides! [chuckling] [words unclear] there’s a [word unclear] in both camps. [loud laughter]

Simon: Yeah I mean, I think we’re quite optimistic about the future, Horus and I. We’re not directly involved, but we’re kind of loosely associated with Patrick Alternative. And I particularly think that after the last election through the “Red wall” voting Tory leaves a massive opening for nationalists, because that these aren’t loyal Tory voters.

We need to have a nationalist party with a working class ethic that will appeal to people who are patriotic and socially conservative. But also want their concerns dealt with. You know, they want hospitals, they want a decent welfare system. And I think their concerns about the demographics, and things like rape gangs, being taken very seriously. So we’re faced with a massive opportunity now. Which I think to a certain extent has been delayed by Brexit.

I don’t think anybody could think about anything else. Unfortunately now we’ve got the coronavirus. But, assuming Brexit does happen, the fact that Brexit has happened it gives normal politics a chance to kick back in. And it’s an opening for the various nationalist, populist, and patriotic groups that existed in Britain today.

[82:00]

Paul: I think we’ve got to make immigration, the big issue now. And then the consequences of what immigration, … We need to bring up this notion of we’re being replaced. Our cities are being altered out of all recognition. And we are in danger here! It’s happening far too quickly. And since 1997, we’ve allowed 10 million immigrants into Britain! And that’s a threat to our very existence! It’s an existential threat here!

This is [word unclear] of Britain. And we’ve got to rally people around that point. I mean, the hope was that the Conservatives were pickle this issue of immigration, and run with it and start to take action. But they were dragging the feet even before the coronavirus. They were talking good, but they actually done very little! And we’ve got to apply pressure! We’ve got to seize political power, or apply pressure on the Conservatives to stop immigration. Because we’ve got control of our borders again, this what leaving the European Union was all about. It was all about immigration! I know sovereignty is an important issue, but it was people who realized that we were being overrun.

And there is a constituency out there. That is the seventeen and a half million people who voted to leave! The old Labour constituencies which have turned to the Conservatives, the White working-class, know that the Labour Party doesn’t want to represent them! The Labour Party’s become the party of the fringes, the margins, the immigrants, the public sector. And there’s a massive opening there! There’s a gap! There’s a big gap in the political life of Britain that needs to be filled.

Horus: With Brexit it was very, very, annoying that it took three and a half years to actually get done. And we’re still not properly, until the end of this year and then possibly some extension of that, but once we are fully out of Brexit that excuse for the Tories is now stripped away, and they are exposed! It is then clearly them who are replacing us with Somalians, and Afghans, and so on! And they will have no excuse anymore.

[84:01]

So, I agree with what you said. Like we’ve gotta get immigration and demographics on the agenda. And in my opinion the key thing along with that is to emphasize that it is the Tories doing it. Because I think our hope lies in essentially destroying —. And this is just a monumental task — but destroying the Tory Party!

And one good thing is that with Corbyn gone, it’s harder for Tory voters to sort of excuse themselves from switching away from the Tories, because they feel they betrayed them, by threatening themselves, or the rest of us with Corbyn. Because Keir Starmer is simply a less frightening figure. I mean, it’s still bloody awful, but like Corbyn was like a bogey figure! They could tell themselves:

“Now is not the time to switch away from the Tories, because I risk a Corbyn government.”

But whereas a Keir Starmer government sounds so much more moderate, whether it is, or not, fuck knows!

Paul: For me, Labor’s got off the edge of the cliff now! It’s totally anti British, anti-White, anti-Christian. I mean, it’s brought into this “woke” agenda completely! It’s not interested in the ordinary people of Britain anymore. And, because of that, for me, it’s no longer relevant in the situation.

Now the Tory party itself, is a very cagey institution. And it’s all about power! The Conservatives is the oldest political party in the world. It’s being in power most imposed of our last 200 years. And what they doing in the Tories, it’s very clever. They’re splitting the immigrants, bringing the Hindus on board, they’re bringing the jews on board, they’re bringing the Chinese on board. And they’re making the sort of Muslims, and the black inner cities, the black working class, they’re making them Labour’s constituency. And that’s how Boris got elected in Uxbridge. And that’s how they’re working this whole sort of demographic change now. And so, they’re always clever the Conservatives. They always know how to manipulate the situation.

[86:09]

But if we want Britain to survive, and for the true British people, the ethnic British, to prosper in the future, that’s an agenda that we can buy into. We need the British, the ethnic British have a voice again in this country. This is what’s really tragic is that, certainly since Blair, the only time we’ve ever really had a voice is through the BNP. A little bit under UKIP. But we’re almost excluded from the political process, the ethnic British. And we need to rebel against this! We can’t accept I! Because it will lead to disaster!

Simon: Yes, precisely. Sorry Horus.

Horus: It’s just gonna take serious, determined, organization, and a lot of intelligence, some luck, and a lot of [word unclear]. Yeah, like what you said before they’re gonna use all the legal means, you know, lawfare and stuff. Our movement is gonna need lawyers, apart from anything else.

And I had a conversation with a guy from Manchester, called Phil. It’s on my channel if anyone wants to watch it. And one thing that came out of that conversation, we agreed that, yeah, we’re taking on the state, not just, you know, political parties!

And I think attacking this state, has to be a part of our strategy. Taking legal action against them, wherever we can. Because one good thing is that I’ve seen two YouTube channels recently, just in the last couple of weeks, saying, they are going to do exactly that. One’s called Crime Bodge. I don’t think he’s a political guy, I don’t know, he’s always going on about police corruption, police malpractice.

He says he’s gonna start taking legal action against police in Rotherham over the rape scandal. It’s very encouraging and I would encourage people to check that out. Another one’s called Not-So-Obvious. He’s making some big documentary, or series, about the rape gangs, trying to bring all the information together. And this is all about just saying:

“Well we don’t care whether it’s Labour, or whatever, it’s about whoever is allowing these networks of foreign men of rape British children!”

The people allowing that are criminals themselves! And they have to be taken down! And I see some sort of increasing focus and determination on, you know, [words unclear] we are responsible for this, we’re gonna get them! And I think that’s really encouraging, and to be encouraged as well! So I like that.

[88:44]

Simon: Okay, let’s do a few questions and superchats. We’ve only got one superchat so far tonight. It’s from the fantastic Thin Red Line, who sends ten US dollars and says:

“Great stream very interesting! Paul Rimmer, …”

This is a slightly tongue it tongue in cheek question for Paul, but it takes us into interesting territory. The Thin Red Line asks:

“Paul Rimmer, will you join Patriotic Alternative?”

Paul: I believe we need nationalist unity in Britain, I mean, there’s a heck of a lot of talent out there. I mean, Horus has just talked about legal minds. But it needs a leader! Someone’s got to emerge to lead the nationalist movement. Mark Collett’s a very charismatic guy. He’s very intelligent. He’s very capable. If he could just drop his baggage, or turn against, it he could be a very effective leader.

Paul Golding is an immensely capable political activist! He can make things happen! He could be an effective leader. Again, he’s got problems, because he’s a got a criminal record. The state has persecuted him for so long.

But I almost go back to Enoch Powell. Enoch Powell came out of the establishment and created the earthquake. I mean, in 1968 80% of the British people backed Powell. They backed Enoch Powell. But he didn’t have a political party to take power.

[90:14]

When Boris Johnson came out to the establishment and fought for Brexit, it was successful. It’s sort of, I’ve got to believe that there’s somebody there in that mix, in that establishment who is a genuine patriot! A genuine nationalist who wants to preserve the British nation. Who wants the British people to survive. And we’ve got to hope that somebody does emerge as a leader. And the Patriotic Alternative, I mean, Ralph is a fantastic guy! He’s very inspirational. And he’s got great insight. And I’m learning a lot from Ralph from studying his ideas.

And the Patriotic Alternative is going places, it’s dynamic! But it needs to fit in with the nationalist wave, internationally, because you should be inspired by what’s happening across Europe and across the world with the nationalist movements. This is our hope. We get inspiration from that. And we get resources from that as well, and support. So I think we can be optimistic. And the Patriotic Alternative is part of the nationalist sort of resurgence in this country. Why not join it?

Simon: Yeah. I think what’s important is that we don’t counter signal each other. I know you’re pretty close to Britain, First. I’ll put this up on the screen now just to emphasize the point that you’ll be speaking along with Paul Golding and Tommy Robinson. Who we might touch on the issue of Tommy Robinson, who we tend to be more critical of but the good thing about Paul Golding is he doesn’t counter signal.

[91:55]

And yeah, both Horus and I are close to the Patriotic Alternative group, part of the general group. But one of our interests in speaking to you Paul is precisely this. That I felt that you would be the kind of person with whom we can build these kind of bridges. We need to be building bridges between these different groups, because we can’t be running around calling each other fascists, and Nazis, as we’ve been called recently. Because, you know, that’s behaving like the Left in our opinion.

Paul: We will all be called fascists, and Nazis, by the Left, anyway. Doesn’t mean, you know, it doesn’t matter if you are the real McCoy, or you are just an impersonator, or you are just a patriot, they will use these negative terms against you. But I think they’ll losing their power, their potency. Nazism’s a long time ago! Second World War finished in 1945.

For me, it belongs to history, you know, it’s like Cromwell and Napoleon. It’s from the past. And we’ve got to look forward! We’ve got to save our country, for our future generations! And this is what Ralph keeps emphasizing. We’ve got to look to the future now and see the opportunities ahead. Let go of the past and focus on what we can do to save this nation.

Simon: Yeah, the problem is that some of the groups. And this is why I retain my admiration. I think Paul’s style is a little bit different from ours, because he’s often quite confrontational, which is probably the reason why well he gets into trouble, so often. But and Marie waters, for example, recently made a video basically telling lies! Saying that we’re racists. Using using words like “Nazi”, and that we want to round all black and brown people up and throw them out of the country.

[94:03]

Which is a million miles from the truth! And I’m sorry for putting you on the spot here. But obviously I’ve done my research and I’ve seen that you’ve kind of given your support, or certainly did a video at a meeting with Anne Marie. And I find this kind of behavior, speaking honestly, reprehensible, because it’s not getting us anywhere really.

Paul: Well I’ve always regarded Anne Marie as an incredibly courageous woman! And I think her position on Islam is very strong. But I’ve actually pushed this said:

“What’s your ideology? You’ve come out of the Labour party, you’re anti-Islam, what’s your ideas for the future of Britain?”

And she won’t commit herself to anything. And I was very disappointed the way she attacked Patriotic Alternative, the language which she used, homophobic, misogynistic, fascist, racist! It was a tick list from the Social Justice Warriors! And that sort of exposed the heart of it. I was very disappointed in that.

I mean, there’s great people in For Britain. I mean, Eddie Butler was there, a lot of exBNP people. We need really to be part of the nationalist coalition to change this country round.

I mean For Britain, they’re using the electoral road, and they’re trying to create a shield, so they can’t be attacked. But I was really disappointed when she said those things. I just thought:

“No, I can’t buy that, I don’t go along with that. I’m sorry.”

That’s not the language I would use. That’s the language of the Left. That’s destructive! That’s negative! That is how the Left operates. It’s all about negativity and destruction.

We’ve got to recognize positives in all situations. We’ve got to see Patriotic Alternative, there’s a lot of very genuine, very worthwhile people in it. You can offer hope to this country.

Simon: Well this is what we think we are. [chuckling]

[96:02]

Horus: This should probably go for all nationalists, like ninety, ninety-five percent of our time should be spent fighting our real enemies, our mutual enemies. And there are occasions when you’re gonna need to stand up for your movement, because you’ve been attacked by another one. And that Anne Marie Waters attack on PA the other week was one [words unclear] not that significant in my opinion. I mean, it’s just, because For Britain, you know, it’s not that big a deal. And also that actually I think gained us some supporters from For Britain as well. But the other incident was when Tommy Robinson’s channel last summer, just unprovoked, made a really vicious attack on Shazia Hobbs, Dionne Moller and Mark Collett.

And that triggered off a huge surge of people moving from sort of the general Counter Jihad perspective into proper ethnic nationalism. Which videos I’ve made since then have all been in designed to encourage. And I would just say, yeah on those occasions you’ve got to make clear right that we disagree with you there, and we’re not standing for that.

But, I think among PA guysc like some of us, you know, in recent months have got overly focused on the groups just adjacent to us in ideological terms. And like we spent so much time just trying to destroy every little remnant of idiocy among them. Mostly our fight should be against the people actually bringing in foreigners into the country. Which, you know, is not to be blamed on Tommy Robinson, or Britain, First. That’s being done by the politicians and by this civil service, and so on. So I’d say if we’re spending more than five percent of our time attacking other patriot nationalists type people, we’re getting it wrong, I think. There’s a small call for it, but that is about all.

[98:09]

Simon: Yeah, I totally agree.

Paul: We need to campaign to win elections. We need an organization which is ready to fight elections and which can sort of persuade the British people that we are there to represent them. And get the British people involved in that organization. I mean, Britain, First has been thwarted a lot, because of the legal position. They’re not allowed to stand candidates at the moment, they’re trying to overcome that. But we need a political force.

And For Britain to their creditor, they’re the only people that are actually fighting elections from any sort of patriotic perspective. And we desperately need to fight elections, because then you do look outwards. Then you do connect with the people and you start to address people’s hearts. And realize we can’t be ahead of the British people, we’ve got to bring them with us, you know, in this crusade to save our nation.

Now Tommy Robinson is a folk hero in this country! I mean, he’s an incredibly brave guy. He’s been in prison. He’s been attacked and he stayed the course. He’s fought back! Now politically, he tried to get elected for the Northwest, he failed there. He needs to connect with a political party. Because he needs to have a real political ideology, and not just a Counter Jihad approach. So, maybe he is a work in progress, or maybe he’s not, but only time will tell.

Simon: Okay. Let me just do a few more, more superchats have come in this is great. Let’s have a look. We’ve got Jay Radio who says:

“Great show guys! Great to see discussion and cooperation. Collectivise to survive!”

Yes, we agree mate. And Steve Ben Bob, another three US dollars. And thanks very much Steve Ben Bob. Another regular contributor, says:

“Important discussion tonight we need more of them.”

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. And we need to be reaching out. And I really agree with what Horus has just said.

We need to be building bridges, and we need to identify who the real, .., or we need to be fighting against who the real enemy is! Which is primarily the Left and Islam. We can talk about this in broader terms and broader strategies, but the enemy is pretty visible. And we really ought not to be bickering amongst ourselves.

Horus: And find Eric Pickles as well! [laughter].

I was on them I was on a stream with Laura Towler the other night — Hail Laura! And I said on that, whatever differences I’ve got with For Britain, … I mean, I don’t share their zionist support for Israel and stuff, you know, things like that. But all the same, if the next election comes around that I see, you know, fifty For Britain counselors have been elected, I’ll be delighted! Because that’s still progress! That’s still good. So I still see them as sort of brothers in the cause, really. We just got differences. But. We really need to spend very little time on the differences, right? Because we’re the task we face is so monumental anyway!

Paul: There’s so much great talent in the nationalist movement. If we pool our resources and get properly organized, and get a decent leader — it’s all big “ifs”, like. But if that happens, we could really impact this country again like we did during the BNP years.

I mean, we haven’t mentioned Nick Griffin tonight. He’s an interesting character in the background.

Simon: Yeah. Well Nick Griffin, I don’t know if you saw the interview we did with Nick Griffin three weeks ago? Very, very interesting. Quite strong differences of opinion, because Nick thinks and the basis of the difference of opinion is, Nick has given up on the electoral route. And he thinks we’re going to lose the electoral route. If it comes to a civil ethnic civil war, the indigenous people are also going to lose. So we ought to be going off into the country and creating, … Well I suppose this is an unkind and ungenerous summary of what he said. But we ought to be community building. And both Horus and my view of this is, of course, we need to community build!

[102:26]

All the nationalist groups, patriotic groups, that were involved in, community building is part of this. But firstly we shouldn’t give up on the electoral route! And if things did —. And this is in the worst of circumstances — if things did come to violence, I think you need to be very careful about completely giving up on the indigenous people of these islands who are much better rooted much more capable of looking after themselves. Obviously it’s a scenario that we don’t want to play out.

But we’re not finished yet! We’re not finished until we’re finished! And there’s plenty of votes left in it in his first. And if that doesn’t work, there’s plenty of fight left in us, I think. And that was basically Nick’s view. Nick is taking a back seat, I think. I’d like to speak to him again in the future. But. I don’t think we can count on him. Certainly in the kind of projects we’re talking about.

Paul: He did sound very jaundiced and disillusioned Nick. But, I think he probably can be re-inspired again. I mean, hope for me, hope springs eternal. That’s what being a Christian is all about. Even the dead can be resurrected, you know. And I think there’s so much hope out there and optimism. And. I don’t think he’s reading the demographics correctly. We’re not finished yet. We’ve still got a couple of decades to save this country. I mean, Ralph’s emphasized that point. And we need to:

“Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our English dead!”

That’s the cry of old Henry the V*. But we don’t give up! Griffin’s wrong about that. We need to keep fighting and winning this political battle.

[* Henry V, also called Henry of Monmouth, was King of England from 1413 until his death in 1422. Despite his relatively short reign, Henry’s outstanding military successes in the Hundred Years’ War against France made England one of the strongest military powers in Europe. Source: Wikipedia]

[104:14]

Horus: If things descend into violence which I mean, there is likely that there’ll be some sort of communal violence in the decades to come. But I mean, he mentioned that, yeah, obviously like nationalism has in many cases been populated by like fat, drunken, middle-aged, men. And I think he’s leaving aside the fact that they’re also quite a lot of young men, who if things start dividing along such clear lines, you will see that there is talk, like a fighting quality amongst Englishmen. We have made fine warriors over the centuries. And often very fearsome, vicious warriors as well! Psychopathic warriors in some cases, in a good way.

Paul: The Celts and the Saxons have a great heritage of fighting warriors, you know. And that’s what nationalism is about! Reinvigorating that and bringing it back to life! It’s not just about winning elections, it’s about stirring the national spirit again. Reviving the British soul! Oswald Mosely used to talk about that a lot. It’s the soul of Britain! It’s the inner spirit that needs to be revived. And that’s what we’ve got to do! And we’re the only people who are going to do that. We’re the vanguard of that. We’re the people who’ve kept hold of that spirit, or found that again. We might have gone off to the Left but we come back to patriotism. And I believe there’s a lot of young people out there who can be revived again. That spirit can be stirred in them, and we reconnect with our past. The positive things that are our past. The strength of our past.

Simon: This is one of the great things about the atmosphere we’re moving in at the moment. I’ve just turned 60. So I’m definitely the old man of this. But there’s lots of guys moving in our circles. We’ve got a young lad who’s 15, plenty of guys in their early twenties. So it’s really positive. There’s young people who are getting involved in this. And before we move on I don’t want to do another superchat from Johnny Jay, who’s another regular contributor. Thank you very much. He sends 25 US dollars and he says:

“Great show lads! Paul my mum and dad were born in Walton. Ripon Street and Eaton Street. Is there any hope for Walton now? Like what you are saying about the Left being in disarray, they are. The government is too, e.g., the tweet from the health account from ethnicities and genders adversely affected by Covid ridiculed. Time to pounce!”

Did you get that Paul, or do you want me to repeat any of it?

Paul: No I got that, yeah, I mean, Walton, I grew up in Walton as a kid. I used to live in the shadow of Goodison Park, Everton Football Club. And it’s an old traditional scouse working-class community. It voted Tory for most of its history. I mean, the famous Lord Birkenhead, Frederick Smith, he was the MP for Walton. And this is great hope there! There’s great hope for the people. I know people in Walton, and I know even though they’ve sort of voted Labour of late, they are patriotic people. And they are strong people! They are very masculine as well! Very traditional people.

And one way, or another, we’re gonna stir the British people again. We’re not gonna go down without a fight! We’re going to stir the British people! Were not prepared to see this nation Islamized! We’re not prepared for the British people to be pushed aside!

There’s a glory in this nation. That is what Jonathan began used to speak about. The glory of Britain! And it’s there. It went over to the United States in a sense. And this is one of the great things about Donald Trump, his mother is Scottish! She’s got that Scottish grit about her! And we have got to revive that Britishness, that Scottishness, that scouseness! The old Cockneys of the East End, they were pushed out, we can’t allow this to continue!

We’ve got to value our head our heritage! Our working-class heritage! The common people, the yeomanry. You know, the men of oak who fought at the Battle of Trafalgar. The men who fought at Waterloo! The men who built the British Empire! He crossed the five continents and made Britain the supreme nation of the world! And English is the language of the world!

So much glory of this nation. And it comes from the common folk, the common man. Because we’re a great people, we’re a gifted people, and we were in line with God, and we were in line with what was right, and we’ve got to stir that again! We got to awaken the British spirit again!

Simon: Fantastic stuff! And another superchat from Serena JB. Thank you Serena, and that three 3 GB pounds:

“Very interesting show as always.”

And we’ve got a few questions as well that are unpaid, but we’re going to read them out anyway. Chaé Ragnarson has got the top one with two votes:

“How was, or what was the message the NF [National Front] gave to be able to draw in the following they began to amass during those times?”

You know, what was it about the NF that that attracted so many people back in the 1970s?

Paul: Well, it fed on Enoch Powell’s message, that we were bringing about our own downfall. That the funeral pyre was being built! And when it was going to be lit, this great nation is gonna be extinguished. And we all had a duty as Englishmen, as British people, to stop this happening! And people bought into that. People were very patriotic, it wasn’t long after the war. It was only like, 30 years, after the war. And it was that war generation was still around.

[110:04]

But people still love this country! They love this island! I mean, it’s a beautiful place Britain! It’s got a fantastic history! And we’re all privileged to be British! I mean, Cecil Rhodes said:

“To be born British is to win first prize in the lottery of life!”

I mean, we passed the baton to America, and we’ve got the English-speaking world. But it’s still something of real value here. We have to rise for the challenge and defend it, and make Britain prosper again!

Simon: Okay, fantastic! And the second question from Chief Only Son Smith, who is definitely a gritty Scot, says:

“Bearing in mind the only enemy we really have is the White, smug, liberal, Libtard, normie, should we just double down on the bad optics and truth-telling, rather than grovel to these traitorous vermin? Discuss!”

So, I think he’s saying:

“Do we mind being called fascists?”

Paul: Well we don’t need, … These labels, they really should just fall away from us, because what we are is people who love our history, and our traditions, and other people going through the ages! Not just Britain, but part of Christendom. That’s really important. We fought in the Crusades to defeat Islam in the past. And that war against Islam started really in a 7th century and didn’t conclude until very recently! It went on for over a thousand years! You could say it ended at the gates of Vienna.

Simon: I think it still hasn’t concluded actually!

Paul: It’s rekindled hasn’t it. Now and we’ve got to rise to the challenge again. I think we’ve got to revive our churches. I’m really impressed the way Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church is reviving Russia. And you can see like Modi in India, Hinduism. He’s using religion to revive the nation. In Japan, Shintoism with Abe [Prime Minister]. And Viktor Orban, and in Poland, the Catholic Church is very conservative, very nationalistic. We need the churches, because we need the spiritual uplift as well.

We’ve got to realize that this is a spiritual battle were fighting. We’re not just fighting for our race and our history, were fighting for what is right and true! We’re fighting for what is decent, you know what is wholesome!

This is why our fight is against Cultural Marxism, as well as Islam, and as well as this globalist agenda. It’s a fight for what is worthwhile in life. This is about the purpose of our lives, to create a better future for our children. To value what we’ve received in the past, and to actually keep it strong in the present. This is the battle that were fighting. The spiritual battle! And we’ve got to revive the Christian spirit in Britain.

Simon: Yeah. I tend to agree. I’m so close to becoming a full Christian! I go to churches all the time — when the coronavirus doesn’t keep me at home! I’m kind of a massive fan of religious art, and wander around Catalonia, and all over Spain, actually. I love the architecture! I love everything about it! I love the way it makes me feel.

But there’s something very sad, is that religiosity, sadly, and I have to admit it, has been educated out of me! There’s a lot of time I kind of look around and like:

“Please! Please come and save me!”

I would really like it to happen, but it doesn’t seem to happen. But you’re completely right. You need to be fighting! We need to be poet warriors, fighting for a greater cause!

Paul: I like that!

Simon: That comes from the higher good really, I think.

Horus: Something we agreed on, … Oh sorry [interrupting Paul]. Just in the first few weeks of us doing this. I started doing this with Simon, what, last October sort of time. And within the first few weeks we sort of agreed on one particular point. That of a moral principle, I guess. Just that we believe in beauty, truth, and goodness, right? I mean, I’m not, I wouldn’t call myself a Christian. I did pray for the first one since I was a child earlier this year. And it was answered. I don’t know to whom exactly I was praying. But there was something happened, and I felt myself changing since.

So I’m beginning to agree with what you say about the spiritual cause. What never motivates me, is just when people say that we need to be spiritual, because it’s of utility to us. It has to be authentic, otherwise, it just seems like an imposition, if that makes sense. So that’s how it appears to me, anyway. But I’m speaking from a sort of atheist point of view.

But, you know, that has to be nurtured in the most, … I can’t even describe how it can be done! Like the nurturing of the spiritual side of the movement, if it presented to you as a matter of obligation, it’s very off-putting. This is how I find it anyway. But if it’s something that you actually, … I can’t finish off my thoughts, … That’s how I developed my thinking, is I can’t finish my sentence. [chuckling]

Paul: , you know what, we’re going through period of purification! And I see it mostly in Russian, the purifying. I mean, they got rid of communism. I mean, in the Ukraine alone they removed 5,000 statues of Lenin in Ukraine! I mean, millions of streets in Russia have been renamed! Places, artifacts have been removed!

The only thing they’ve left in the communist period it’s the war memorials. So it’s like a purification of the nation, going back to its heart, and it’s soul. Which is Russia, the Christian faith. But we need a purification in the churches as well in the West.

Pope Francis, the Jesuit Order, they were taken over by the Marxist in the 1960s. What should be a source of strength for us and the institution’s we can gather round, the Cultural Marxists have moved in and corrupted them! The Church of England has been really severely damaged! Maybe beyond redemption. Now this as part of the battle as well. Saving our culture, saving our spiritual life, saving our religious heritage! This is all its all part of the battle were fighting. It’s a much bigger battle just fighting for our race and our nation. It’s a battle really to save what is a glorious culture!

This is what Jonathan Bowden used to speak about. Something which it inspires us, and gives our life meaning, and gives us hope for the future. And something, which is worth fighting and dying for! This is what we’re losing in our culture. Now everything is losing it’s meaning, and it’s significance, and people are sort of apathetic.

That spirit that the British people could be stirred to actually fight to the death for something, this is what we had in the past! This is why we survived as a nation. Because don’t forget, Britain, the Spanish Armada came here, the French tried to destroy us, we had to fight across the five continents to establish our Empire. We had that inner zeal in us! You know, it’s really important! It’s like a force of life, and it’s a positive thing, it’s a positive energy! This is what we need in the nationalist movement. We need that vitality!

In the sense the National Front had in the 1970s, and the BNP had it between 2000 and 2010. And when you were part of it was so invigorating!

I remember going to like the Red, White, and Blues of the BNP and the atmosphere was electric! That sense of comradeship! Friendliness! Lifting each other up was amazing! It was like going back to a golden age Britain. And this is what the Left despise. They despise this collectivist spirit!

I mean, Simon talked about the NUM and stuff, they were Marxists and communists, but they did have, the has been lost in a sense, that working class community. That sense of solidarity. And it’s so important to make a nation strong and it came out of the churches in the past, and these are sources of energy for our people. These are sources of life, social reproduction. And they’re so important!

This is what Trump has brought back to America. When you see as rallies, you feel the energy of his rallies! They’re electric! And people are inspired by them! You have to raise people’s horizons! They have to see something beyond themselves, the bigger picture, that were not individuals just going through life, you know, struggling to get through each day, but we belong to a collective and ancient body.

Simon: Well, I think that is a great, … We have just come up to the two hours. I think that’s a great, an inspiring way to finish. It’s about the greater good. We have to collectivize. We talk a lot about collectivizing and re-racinating, about understanding who we are. And I don’t know what you think Paul. But I think this conversation has been really positive. It shows that people in this movement have plenty in common, and any minor differences that we have, can easily be overcome. And I think the audience should take that away as a really positive message.

Paul: Hear, hear! Thanks Simon! Thanks Horus! Appreciate it!

Simon: A pleasure having you on Paul. If you want to check out Paul’s YouTube channel. The link is in the description box.

Thanks for being here folks. I think it’s been a fantastic conversation. Look after yourselves, and we’ll see you all next week!

Paul: Bye!

Horus: Thank you Paul!

[120:14]

END

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Version History

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Simon Harris – EF 21 – Keeping A Political Project On Point with Dangerfield – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

admin — Wed, 29 Apr 2020 07:18:21 +0000

[Simon Harris and Horus talk with Chris Dangerfield. The first half is mainly a very interesting account of Dangerfield’s “adventurous”, event filled, life. Then in the second half they discus the contentious issue of what role, if any, WWII revisionism should play in the Nationalist movement.

Dangerfield says that any association with “Nazism” is harmful to our movement, and says [63:00];

“Very little is gained from any of this stuff. But we sacrifice a hell of a lot.”

Simon and Horus are in partial agreement but counter that it is very important to expose the lies about that era as those lies are used against nationalism. Simon says:

“But there’s a whole whole web of lies about the causes of the Second World War. Churchill is our greatest hero. Hitler is the most evil man in history. And then a particular event that took place in prison camps in concentration camps is the thing that White people have to be guilty of for the rest of the rest of history! Somehow picking away at that myth, at parts of that myth I think is incredibly important.

Because as long as it remains, we will never be able to be free, because Churchill will be rammed in our faces! And the historical event will be rammed in our faces! And will be forced to be guilty again and we won’t be allowed to collectivize. And that will be the reason behind it.”

The difficulty with the approach of trying to distance the nationalist movement from any form of revisionism is that we do not control the narrative. Our (((enemy))) has spent generations now propagandizing the idea that White nationalism leads to Auschwitz, whether that’s British ethno-nationalism, or German. The whole purpose of “anti-racism”, “holocaust education” is to brainwash the public into believing that being for the White race is evil and wicked.

So White ethno-nationalists are caught between an enemy made “rock and a hard place”. The “rock” is the “racism” charge, while the “hard place” is the “Holocaust” myth carried out by the “racist” Germans/Whites.

So how will nationalists wriggle out of being caught between this enemy created “rock and a hard place”?

We can try the methods used by our enemy and simply try to lie our way out of it, by saying we are not “racists” and that we believe the “Holocaust” is true. This merely digs us further into their hole.

Or, we can start the long and arduous, yet powerful, process of telling the public the truth on these topics when they need to be said. We need not wriggle out between the “rock and the hard place”, but rather dissolve those two things by exposing them as the lies that they are.

— KATANA]

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_____________

European Freedom #21

A Conversation with

Dangerfield

Apr 28, 2020

Click here for the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWmuUVmWcP8

Published on Apr 28, 2020

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Programme Notes
EF #21: Keeping A Political Project On Point with Dangerfield
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TRANSCRIPT

(121:02 mins)

[00:07]

Simon: Okay hello everyone and welcome to European Freedom livestream number 21! What is called now? It’s called “Keeping a Political Project on Point”! And this week we’ve got the fantastic Chris Dangerfield. So it’s really great to have him here and as but as usual before introducing him we’re gonna talk to my mate Horus. How’s it going Horus? Any new news on your latest video.

Horus: I still still editing it I keep on failing to get around other work but all right well I’ll be doing this over like an hour here an hour there and I was just got well I’ve got a rerecord a bit, or I’ll go record another section to it so. But I think I’ll get it on this week okay there now I just I had loads of work, you know, my job work last week. So I’m getting on sweat and then I’ve got loads more ideas after that as well but I’ve read two books in between, because it’s about the right gangs fing and a read Maggie Oliver’s book and Jane’s seniors book and that gave me new things to discuss so that’s the bits I’ve got the one add to it as well.

Simon: Good I’ve heard very good things about Maggie Senior particularly.

Horus: You’ve mixed the two together Maggie joins me yes yeah she’s the one she’s lady works in brother room and yeah she was a yeah real whistleblower and making olive as one was better than I expected as well, because it I’ve been led to believe that she was sort of like a self-promoter Sophie but actually in her book he’s really hot hitting I recommend back to them yeah and they’re quite easy reading who they well we’re in it off so I’ve got some stuff to take out in I’m putting more videos.

Simon: Okay well be looking forward to that and okay and finally onto the guest Chris it’s really great to finally speak to you after quite a long time really.

Chris: Mmm certainly I don’t usually like doing streams with people I’ll be honest with you but I like your stuff Simon. So I’m actually looking forward to this and nice to be not on camera I mean, there’s that ridiculous to have me there, but I am actually sort of reclining at the moment and it’s nice not to show my face.

Simon: Yeah it is a relief actually I always used to show my face I still often show my face but just the idea of be able to sit here and pick your nose if you liked this kind he’s kind of relief really it takes a lot of pressure off you and yeah I prefer working with avatars really.

Okay, so let’s get into the I-team I don’t know the best way to introduce you I suppose everybody knows Chris and just be doing a bit of research on you I’ve been watching some of your videos over the last few days and I don’t is it out of order to bring the one that you broadcast the other day about your when you appeared on Channel four TV

Chris: They’re all public so I mean, they’re all public feel free.

Simon: I mean, look what in many respects I mean, I think my background from pretty much stat well reasonably far left as a young man. But then standard left up my I suppose my strange story as I played in reggae bands and African bands for a long time. I was the White guy in a kind of very, very black community and now I’m an ethnos so is it kind of a bit bit odd really, but your background is even heavier going from kind of radical communist through drug addict to Nazi really! Yeah it’s kind of how did you get here?

Chris: You know what I went to I had a seven, or eight years in higher education. I just want it well originally I wanted to be I was a child of the eighties and graphic design was a big thing in the 80s and there’s loads of money in it and my dad was a bricklayer but he was always drawing he was done oil paintings that all wrapped round my mother’s house quite a weird bloke in many ways especially in that working-class community, you know, he stuck out as a bit of an eccentric. And so I was always drawing and he taught me to draw a young age and paint and so with the sort of it was a red Ferraris and funny sort of glasses in the eighties so I wanted to be a graphic designer.

So I went to art college to study that. But then as it’s quite typical with art schools I started taking a lot of drugs and LSD come along. And it affected me quite heavily and I soon sort of rejected earning money basically that’s the simple way of putting it I could dress it up as rejecting capitalism and [05:02] the exploitation and alienation of labor. But just the idea of earning money and working was sort of frowned upon in art schools and my work changed I wasn’t, you know, I my portfolio when I arrived there was lots of nice watercolors of the sort of things you’d expect on chocolate boxes and leaflets at the bank.

After about six months of LSD they would just a mess just throwing paint at the canvas and cutting it and, you know, usual kind of stuff. And so they said to me you’re not really an illustrator we think you should lead this course and gonna study fine art. So when I done that I ended up on a degree doing performance art which is, you know, that’s right out there this is contemporary performance art.

My final piece at that university sorry that art school was a piece named after the Foucault book discipline and punish. Where me and a friend were dressed up in sort body armor and ice hockey hats and gum shields and we had these wooden clubs and anyone who came in the room at to follow rules. And we had lawyers outside we had security guards and people had to sign contracts legal contracts not to involve the law, or the police layer. They probably weren’t binding but they may have been we did have real lawyers excuse me. And so anyone who entered that room and they ain’t had to enter one at a time and the rules were things like you had to pigeon step around the black line without deviating you had to leave the room with one mitt in one minute and not establish eye contact with anyone in the room and everyone did that was the first thing they do they walk in they survey the room and see they broke a rule we kick the shit out of them! And that was my final piece. So I got first for a violent piece of art.

But while I was as soon as I left studying graphic design and illustration I ended up in fine arts alongside that comes the politics and they were all Marxists! There was not a whiff of anything else! They are all hardcore Orthodox to the mainly sort of Rosa Luxemburg Marxists. And I was taught that and after that first degree I went on done a master’s degree in cultural studies. And this is about 94. And cultural studies for anyone who doesn’t know he’s kind of like the birthplace of social justice, you know, I will study in post-colonial theory. I was studied gay and gender theory it was studying feminism.

And we were it was a Marxist indoctrination camp. And as much as I thought I was making my own decisions I look back now and it’s horrifying really they’re sort of a young bright young, a young bright lad full of the joie de vivre, you know, a loved life my father had died when I was quite young. But I was still sort of coping and I was put through this horrible indoctrination process where I came out a Marxist.

And when you’re about it you can’t enjoy life! You’re not allowed to you, because anything anything you achieve, or do someone else is suffering that’s the kind of basics, or maths they work on. And without doubt it cost me the next 30 years of my life! Because that sort of ended up, you know, I became a heroin addict for the majority of my adult life.

Simon: Before we get onto that can we just talk about a bit about the kind of Marxism. I mean, because I really got into radical left politics just for a couple of years. But when you were reading it didn’t you think there was something wrong with it?

Because I kind of loved the term I’ve come to use is once I moved there were out of the far left I just became a default leftist, you know, I was nothing really, but I’ve had this imprinted on my mind. But yeah, I read quite a few I didn’t actually read and read much omit original work but I read synopses and essays and I had lots of mates who were the International Marxist group was based in Notting was founded in Natyam. And I knew lots of people in the IMG some of them were okay some of them were right our souls actually, but to a certain extent I think even in a couple of years I’ve kind of worked out for myself that there was something wrong with this.

And also being we kind of we all joined the Labour Party in the kind of entries in period and I it was very lucky, because I joined the Labour Party where my granddad who was a trade unionist had been a member. And some of his old mates took me under their wing they used to call me Young Harris. And I had to go and sit with them at its party meetings and I think what they were doing subtly they were telling me keep away from these wankers.

Effectively that’s what they did and, because they ‘d obviously been mates with my granddad and lots of mud known since I was a [10:01] little kid. I couldn’t really get out of it but I kind of woke myself up and my stupidness only lasted for what two, three years probably.

But then the unfortunate thing was the rest of my life I was just kind of left with this default leftism where I thought left that the lefties must be the good guys. And I never actually bothered looking at any other alternative theories sorry for going on about too much about myself. But I was just kind of interested to explore how you perceive some of this ideology.

Chris: Well it was a bit strange, because I was a little bit of an outlier anyway I think, because I was studying from an arts background my I was worried I was more into the sort of French scene Foucault Derrida Chris diver who it was all based in Marxism. So I sort of knew there was a, you know, they sort of doff their cap to Marxism and even among the Marxists that was seen as a little bit dodgy, you know, they were a bit more sort of straight-laced.

However, they did the thing that really attracted me to them at Leeds University when I was in my masters was there practical stuff. The Islamic fundamentalist group his Buddha here they got banned from Leeds University. And that was carried all over the country his butter here were not allowed to speak on University campuses, because they were homophobic and sexist and all this. And the Marxists of which I was one then and I was selling liberal Marxism, you know, Brendon O’Neill’s new magazine LM I think it was called by then it didn’t last long I think IT had sowed them out of existence in the end. But the Edition that we were selling was a free speech Edition and it was about free speech absolutism and we actually got the his butter here reinstated on universities we said this is crazy you can’t just silence people.

And that that appealed to me and no one else was doing it, you know, there was a lot of sort of the SWP were very prominent of every university I’ve been to and they didn’t strike me as anything. I wasn’t interested in anything and when they were shutting people up I was totally repelled by them. But the Marxists that was a good thing. Fired in for free speech on universities and doing speeches and do presentations organizing workshops where students would come along and they were talking about free speech absolutism. The next edition of the magazine believed in Marxism it’s funny actually thinking of it now I was like 23 with these magazines on my chests, or at university to celebrate such a cliche.

But and the next edition was what’s wrong with masculinity. And he had a picture of Tyson on the cover. And it was a pro-masculinity thing I mean, you got to put it in context going back to the early nineties the sort of the university left was a very different beast. So I was quite impressed with that kind of stuff.

My actual reading of Marx I thought if I felt this song wrong with it was quite boring. Especially when you’re used to Derrida, or on Foucault which is, you know, for lack of a better word it’s quite sexy theory really. And Das Kapital German ideology you just have to read it.

Simon: Yeah, it was pretty tiresome but it held me I on my own I suppose it was a combination of the people that were involved who I just didn’t like. And that kind of that kind of made, you know, I could smell something fishy, because and it’s interesting that like many, many years later when I finally started my more recent red pill journey it happened much more quickly, because I immediately as I was trying to waking up to what’s wrong with the world I first I went far left and explored the far left again.

And I was kind of reasonably involved with a far left party here in Catalonia. Just for two meetings actually, because we worked out very, very quickly that I thought they were wankers. And they thought I was a dangerous source, because I was asking too many sensible questions. But the fact that I’d gone that I knew already knew what lefties were like when I came back and found a few more of these radical people I realized I didn’t like them 35 years ago. I still don’t like them now.

What about you Horus? Your I don’t think you’ve been involved quite so radically have, you.

Horus: Know, the communism was the first idea that ever excited me though when I was about 15. And I sort of held on to at least remnants of that until early 20s. So yeah, I did have a sympathy for it. I wanted to ask something what’s the I am Ginny the crypt for the Hitchens prophets were.

Simon: No [15:00] it wasn’t it was it might have been not in Nottingham it was I think it was who was it? Was it Talia Callie? And then there was a there was a couple of not seen guys. I didn’t know the bigwigs. But the guy that ran the socialist society at University. I’m not going to name his name. But he was a member and he was a drinking mates. And I was in the social associate Society. So I kind of met these people and occasionally I found them rather obnoxious. But, you know, it’s what when I when you’re that age I was just LARPing as a radical. Mm-hmm, you know, it’s all revolution and, you know, donkey jackets and Doc Martin Lucy boots.

Horus: Did they write articles that cool things like drinking as a revolution reacts and things on that.

Simon: I mean, everything was revolutionary! And there is no.

Chris: And also usually the wrong way around. You’ve hit that now really Horus look then find way but behavior they were doing and then defend it as revolutionary. In they didn’t identify revolutionary act and then do it so if one of them was an alcoholic yeah his next paper would be drinking as a revolutionary act so sure.

Horus: And it wasn’t revolution as a drunken act.

Chris: Well Simon I was just saying about that LARPing thing. I’ve talked on my channel before. Without a doubt I was caught up in the Romance of the Marxist revolution. Which has a huge cultural kind of oath behind it. I can remember we went to seal and Ken Loach’s land and freedom which is incredibly good Marxist propaganda. In some ways is there’s some questionable politics during the movie.

But, you know, we went to lead picture house which sits about hundred people it’s got, it’s lit by little gas lights. And the RCP went along to watch land and freedom. And the there’s like 20 odd movies about Che Guevara and, you know, just the history of it the image is the stories. You don’t really get so much of that on the right. And as a lost kind of someone spiraling into addiction it was certainly something Romantic and kind of wholesome to get hold of but as I got older it became almost just an identity, you know, it become scientist, or single me out of parties, because I was going to talk about communism.

And but I never got the impression any of that lot that I met then any of those lot from the RCP at Leeds University I never actually believed this was gonna affect any change. Not once! And I only realized about six, seven months ago I’m involved in something now which feels like if things are actually happening. And I didn’t have that once in the RCP.

One of the boys it was right at the top of the tree. And again I won’t mention him. We went out one night and I gave him some speed. And it was one of those real mistakes go after about 10 minutes he looked like his head was gonna explode. And he turned to me and he grabbed me by the lapels of my sort of Rik Mayall student sort of cherry shops. He looked me in the eyes and he went he went you’ve got the means of production! You’ve got the means! And I really looked up to him, because man could he talk Marx! And I remember the engine singing are no he’s a bloody idiot!

Horus: But if he is so much so much like you can be wasted on it the dead end theory. But maybe it was just that he was like I mean, he might have been a very smart guy at, but lost in this maze of a sense of the idiocy way, because Marxism. But I don’t know if you guys would agree. But I think a wholly disagree with that statement that so many ordinary people have the it’s a nice idea. But it working in real world it’s. My artistic spirit is that it’s a terrible idea and I obviously won’t work in the real world as well.

But I mean, it does work it functions too great a castle of skulls and bones right. But it the problem is there’s a bad idea in the first place as well. It’s the idea is to destroy it, or private property which is a war against reality. And to destroy everything that can make one person have power over another. Which is everything about this. I mean, taller people are advantaged overfish, or ones where it’s oh except for airplanes.

Chris: Oh I think the thing about, you know, I obsolete Marxism as opposed to communism I understand you’re talking about communism as a sort of economic and social system. But what’s kind of appealing about Marxism to young men I think is there’s a lot more there, you know, there’s a the there is an analysis of capitalism. There is things that stand out that as a young man you almost can’t argue with really alienation from labor, you know, that I think that still goes on today.

Horus: I recognize that concept.

Chris: Yeah, of course, if girls gave them to talk the ears of [20:02] it and me they, but also things like the historical material principle analyzing history, you know, these things stand up. So it’s not just communism and, you know, Marxist of analysis of art and literature is there’s a huge body of work that comes under the umbrella of Marxism. And a huge body of work there’s that it’s influenced. I mentioned it for the likes of Foucault and Derrida that horse, or French thing. So, you know, to say that it’s a bad idea, you know, I understand that communism is a bad idea. But there’s so much more there. And I think it’s a bit more complicated than that.

Horus: And now what we encounter is more mark so Freudianism, or something like that I mean, Marxism that what people call cultural Marxism right it Marx combined with especially sake of psychology and other things like social anthropology as well. But I what, you know, it once it combined with so many other fields it became infinitely more influential. And also you mentioned the cultural studies before, right? If I’m not mistaken is that the field with Stuart Hall was one of the big yeah.

Chris: For sure Stuart Hall from Birmingham he was kinda like the brainchild behind it. Who wrote that ridiculous book Orientalism which is just Sayid sorry no. But yeah, you’re right Hall is behind that yes yes that’s true.

Horus: Hall is a major favorite of Ash Sarkar.

Chris: Yeah.

Horus: She absolutely loved him! But I see a straw I mean, I know this is perhaps of a point of principle the grander sweep of Marxism but why the fuck was that man and that’s who work in a British university? Like it says, you know, I don’t know why a single him at particular this is like a Jim might like Bob Baden, or something like he’s from the Caribbean he’s a Marxist he’s trying overthrow our society. And he’s employed in a British University and made famous, you know,

Chris: It’s full of them! It’s full of them Wars.

Horus: The ranks of them.

Chris: My master’s degree tutors three jews, three Marxists, three people who hate Western society! You’re sure for sure and they never taught me anything critical! They never they never encouraged me to critique Marx, or any others it’s no they paid me information.

Horus: Yeah it’s not what critical theory is its a critical theory is a weapon what was its a way of making people doubt their own society. Well making Western people doubt their own society.

Chris: But about however, you know, oh I also, you know, also the Frankfurt School, you know, they the Frankfurt School we talk about cultural Marxism for the Frankfurt School they looked at the failures of Marxism they tried to work out why. They realize that Marx a totally underestimated the growth of an explosion of pop culture and mass media. They also took on Freud like you said and so they created this, or new Marxism that took into account pop culture and mass media. And the divide itself of the sort 20th century.

However, much like when I talk about the body of work of Marx, some on the Frankfurt School stuff is still relevant and I think brilliant. I think Adorno and Horkheimer analysis of the culture industry which in inner as they called the culture industry is absolutely on point!

And I get in so much trouble for this like it’s so much backlash for daring to say that something the Frankfurt School said was relevant. And yet I study these texts regularly I pop out essays about them and I think to throw the baby out of the bath walk with some of this stuff is a really big mistake. I would encourage everyone to read the culture industry, if you want to get an understanding of how pop culture has got us in the mess. The pop culture’s role in the kind of demoralization and alienation and atomization of our people. I think it’s essential to look at that stuff.

Horus: Who does criticize you for reading and discussing those things?

Chris: Do any avatars in the chat I mean, I don’t get a sustained argument emailed to me. I just get people calling me all sorts of stupid names. But it rarely goes down well.

Horus: There’s no reason oh sorry I was cancer is loads of valuing in reading stuff from the Left is by no means the fact that there’s something wrong about roofing it’s what they’re trying to do is evil. What they’ve identified as the problem is they’ve got half the thing, or a few things right and I’m wrong, you know, by no means a waste of time to read this though.

Chris: But Horus do you think Marx and I asked you this as well Simon. Do you think marks set out to make a better world?

Simon: No I can’t go down a very conspiracy-theory path. I don’t really go down the conspiracy theory the fact that he was Rothschild cousin and he was in London at the same time as what I can’t remember which Rothschild it was [25:01] was MP for the city. I just think it’s yeah it when we talk about this particular tribe of people they crop up so frequently. This is very difficult not to go down the conspiracy theory route. And I don’t really want to get into it.

But yeah, I don’t know I think it’s cynical. I think one of the things about this tribe is they’re capable of producing very intelligent stuff, very intellectually stimulating stuff, for purely cynical reasons! And you spend your whole life doing something that’s gonna bring mmm bring evil to mankind. I think ultimately that’s what Marx does. No I don’t think he was to bring goodness to Manson mankind.

Chris: That conspiracy route you didn’t want to go down!

Horus: No I’ll tell you like a little more sophisticated most what hardly anyone on earth has purely good, or purely evil intentions but I’d say is more towards evil end. But like I do think Marx probably had a genuine belief in communism, because communism was is actually an old idea, right?

It goes back way before the 19th century. Like the story of the guys in Munster, you know, the Anabaptist take over in Munster offing is another example of the idea of communist suddenly making thing with you crazy things. And this thing’s way back in like biblical times as well. But I just think the libertarian theorist Murray rough, but also jewish Missy but a good cheer in my opinion. He put it well when he just said the key thing to understand about Marx is that Marx was a commie, which sounds like a joke and when he says this you’re on tape you can hear the audience laughing but he means it, right? What he said is Marx was a commie when he was like in his early 20s, then he became a theorist those theories were to justify the idea of communism.

So this whole analysis of capital has eventually taken over the world destroying aristocracy and then ultimately destroying itself and then communism what will be the necessary result, was all bullshit! I don’t believe it, right? It may become some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy maybe I mean, obviously capitalism does have its problems right. But I think that all that he wrote was to justify his pre-existing belief in communism. And so I don’t I do you think he probably thought that was socially just in a way. So I don’t Ralph is simply evil but no I do think communism is an evil idea so not going to credit in which one of your good evil.

Simon: But don’t you think to a certain extent it’s a lot of that early communism is the result of being a lapsed jew? Like this, you know, there’s some kind of ticking tikkun olam in it and yes it’s so tell Malik and it’s so hateful.

And I’ve been fiddling around with an idea I was wanting to that’s all I’ll publish it at some point. But I fiddle about with the Communist Manifesto over and over again and it’s full of bile! When you start to look at it I was thinking of just replacing I’ve been going through the text and replacing the word “bourgeois” with White, or some kind of version of “White“. And once I’ve done the text I want to kind of update it for the modern world and call it a “Globalist Manifesto“. I’m giving away an idea!

But a lot of it kind of stands up and it just when you suddenly apply it to yourself this could be me! It comes across is really nasty and it’s kind of yeah the boys were the bourgeoisie it is a reasonable synonym for what Whites have become today. And it seems that it seems to be full of racial hatred to me.

Horus: And like I don’t think anyone should write, because he was Chris marks was kind of raised Christian, right? Like his father was a convert to Christianity so he was thought nominally raised Christian by simon: His — of his grandfather’s were rabbis and his brother became a rabbi.

Horus: You then further back further up from his grandfather’s as well it’s quite a long line of rabbis I think. Plus there was that Moses Hess who was a big time in search of inspiration on him as well, who was very self-consciously a jewish think her, right? jewish.

Simon: He’s the founder of Georgia nation political zionism what I can do I can’t man what it’s exactly cool but is that a precursor to zionism.

Chris: There’s a fair amount of anti-semitism in Marx. I’m struggling to know.

Horus: That’s true that’s true like he’s not I don’t think Marx was trying to serve jewish ethnic interests [30:00]. It’s not that he’s of another kind. These are the kind of like that you see in my Trotsky and Barris people like it’s only cliff like yo your Gluckstein. Another other jew that legit then they don’t see themselves as working for, you know, jewish interests.

But they are of another strain of the way that jews are kind of corrode, or undermine Western societies like. But they yeah they having the mind I think the genuine idea, they’re pursuing some kind of social justice. But also of a devilish edge to it! Restrained but destruction matters, you know,

Chris: A devilish edge!

Horus: I think so I think so I might be wrong I might be wrong, but that’s how it seems to me.

Simon: There’s an interesting member who by but it is a book called Marx and Satan which is a well worth a read? Okay, so we can eat we kind of got on to the post-modernism and that the whole promotion of degeneracy through culture. Which is kind of a story of your life isn’t it Chris?

Chris: Yeah, for sure.

Simon: There’s your is that is it through the politics was it the politics that got you into the degeneracy really.

Chris: I think, you know, I won’t blame I’m not gonna blame anything on its own. I did make decisions as well and other people went through what I went through and didn’t end up like me. So I was also I have to take some responsibility, of course. But I’m just come at the end of finishing a novel which is its an autobiographical novel. And having now written nearly 200,000 words, when I step back from it and try and work out what it’s about.

The sort of major theme is what happens to people who were wrenched from responsibilities, were encouraged to pursue pleasure, we’re told marriage is a bad idea, we’re told families are a bad idea, we’re told to just get out there and have pleasure and accumulate wealth. That’s the story of my life, the failures of that. Without responsibility you have no meaning and my life has been cursed with barbaric meaninglessness!

And that I think that will take people to things like drugs, or certainly to things like addiction, whether that’s drugs, or is manifest in whatever way. And I think it’s one of the real failures of the White culture of the last twenty, thirty years. I think the eighties and nineties really screwed a generation, or two, with that kind of emphasis. Emphasis yeah!

Simon: I also kind of noticed but in the in that clip that you played is going to some parts of that clip but you were it in who was it Rupert Everett’s who you have an interview with? Um but he introduced use of having, or you say yourself that you’d made him you are a businessman who’d made a million in, …

How on earth given given that you’re a commie, a commie drug addict, how does a commie drug this was my question if how does it commie drug-addict become a businessman who makes a million?

Chris: It was weird actually obviously, you know, actually it was weird obviously, but I sold drugs for most of my life, because you justify it, because you’re a communist. And this is all black market. And I don’t I’m dealing in a different market place where everyone’s cool and revolutionary. I’d say I’ve told this story a few times. I used to live in a flat above this Irish man. And in my window I had the communist flag from Vietnam. And an Irish paramilitary flag with the bloke with the AK 47 in the balaclava. And I come out one morning and he went to me — I can’t do the accent — he said:

“Why did you have those flags in your window?”

And in all seriousness I’m so deluded I said to him:

“I’m a revolutionary!”

And he went:

“No, you’re a junkie!”

It’s just like, yeah!

But I got I so I was selling drugs to pay for my own habits and just to add some money obviously. And then I washed up back at my mother’s house when I was about thirty 31 I think maybe. And, you know, every few years I’d end up back at my mother’s house with, you know, no pot to piss in and nothing going on.

And a friend come around my house who I’d known since we were kids. And he just said to me look at this day if you said your yellow you glow in the dark you’re a bright bloke and you’re doing nothing. And he gave me a computer. And I went on and he got me online.

And this was dial-up it was really early days no one it was in the industry so I was quite sort of privy to I didn’t have that sort of technological block to get online. And so I got online and started messing around and found a forum and the idea have been out of talk to people all around the world online was just incredible!

I never forget the first [35:00] bloke I spoke to who was a steelworker in Illinois and it got me I was crying, because I’d spent the weekend on ecstasy and I was all vulnerable and delicate and he sort of drove a truck to this steel mill and made metal, or something, and yeah this will wholesome life. His childhood sweetheart was pregnant.

And I was just sort of disappearing like nine stone Mayor Marva zoth. I found so that forum really struck me. And then may come around the next day and he said what you’ve been doing on the internet. I said well I found a forum and he said well you can have your own forum and I was like alright then let’s do it. And he said what do you want the forum to be about? And I’ve been messing around with a very old lock-picking tool called a bump key. And I said well let’s call it UK Bump Keys. And he said all right and so he’s certainly silly for him up and I put up a few posts about the bump keys I put a few photos of him up. And the next morning I had about 500 members and half of them wanted to buy a bump key off me. And so I was like yeah send a tenner to my mum’s and I’ll send you one.

Simon: Wow!

Chris: And about six months later I had an online business it was turning over between three and five grand a day!

Horus: We can we do another stream where we where we run through the details of that?

Chris: I missed a big chunk out there didn’t know my secrets of online entrepreneurship Noble that book that I released soon.

Horus: I mean, what the fuck is a bump key? But they will go from there.

Chris: Well a bump keys all right. So there’s let’s assume there’s 20 plus 20 brand I’ve always been into lock picking so that’s kind of been in the background all my life. We do helpful for chemists if when the chemist is close you need to help yourself.

Horus: Oh I see right,

Chris: Let’s assume there’s 20 brands of locks in England yeah always the one most people know. But there’s GG there’s ledge there’s vir oh there’s Chavo. I could give you 20 off the top me it. But let’s us use 20. They all have a blank key that will fit most of the ones in that brand, unless lights, or variations so a 1A Yale key is gonna fit probably about a million 1A Yale locks yeah. The blank key will go in it won’t open it but it will go in it, because it’s the same profile that’s a Yale 1A.

Now there’s a pattern called a bump pattern that you can cut onto that key and then, if you put that into any of those million Yale locks, space it correctly, get the right spacing, give it a little tap on the back with — originally it used to be a top in the handle of a screwdriver, but now you can get bump hammers. Give it a little tap it’s gonna open that lock. So one bump key will now open 500,000 locks. So for locksmiths this is a an absolute boon!

Horus: Right.

Simon: No I got it cheap at ten pounds oh so, you know, oh yeah I can see the potential in purchasing that,

Chris: Yeah, I mean, the thing is, I mean, the business is now nearly twenty years old and now there’s loads of stuff. I still work there. I’m not the sole owner anymore, because my head dick jinkin can come back and screw everything up from time to time. But, you know, there’s we have a good relationship with the police and the police I don’t have an issue with lock-picking tools, because they kind of the wrong the wrong tools for the job.

If you’re gonna rob a property you’re not worried about non-destructive entry, which is what lock-picking provides. But there’s a payoff, you know, a set of lock picks you might be down in front of that door for a for now, or trying to individually pick those pins even with a bump key you’ve got to know the lock, you’ve got to know what variation it is. And you if you’re not prepared that you could be hittin that key for 30-40 minutes.

Whereas if you’re a thief a brick through the windows, or foot through the doors far far, you know, you don’t, you know, you’re not looking to not destroy the lock. You’re not looking for non-destructive entry. And you don’t wanna sacrifice time. So they’re not the police we have a good relationship with the police. But we also sell to the police, we sell to fire stations, we sell the Ministry of Defense, we sell to private investigators, and all sorts.

Simon: So okay I’m Nick this is getting really interesting. I was going to talk about politics thing, but this is momentum. So you did all this and then you got into I mean, one of the things that impresses me about your stream is, I mean, I need to prepare my stuff I. You just sit there and talk confidently about any old thing is its amazing.

Chris: So I meant that the trick is not to prepare anything! That’s the I never prepare anything! I might occasionally get a little video if someone sends me something interesting throughout the day. But I’ve met but I [40:00] used to do stand-up I was a stand-up comment for 10 years. I never prepared anything for that either well this is.

Simon: How do you get into stand-up? You it’s communism drugs, a lock picking business, and stand-up! It seems an odd collection of, …

Chris: Well I’ve got to say the lock-picking business did not stay at that, sort of money, because what happen was it was very early days of the internet. So there was a lot of things working for me no one else was really online. And I mean, that mimei and me I knew no one else who was online. Not even libraries were online this is our fireback ongoing so I was in a very I mean, there were people online. But it wasn’t like yesterday and so I was in a very lucky position where you could capitalize on things no one else had. But then you suddenly five years later everyone’s online there’s another 20 lock-picking shop so I didn’t have to deal with when I started. Then ebay. Then Amazon

And so, you know, and then, of course, in those early days it was just me now there’s like I say I don’t own the company outright anymore there’s half a dozen full-time staff half a dozen part-time staff consultants marking consultants SEO agents bookkeepers account and it goes on. So the glory days didn’t last for long but, you know, it’s still a healthy business it employs a lot of people and that’s their jobs.

But what happened was, because of that business I mean, I’ve been to about ten rehab centers before that business and none of them weren’t even touch the size of that. I don’t think I was ready to stop to be honest with you I had nothing going on in my life. I was living over mums. For someone with two degrees to never have worked and to be just doing nothing was quite sad. And so when I turned up at a rehab center I am answering your question, by the way, it’s just a bit of a weird way again. So turn up a rehab center and then say to you right we’re gonna get you clean and then when you leave here you’re gonna be living at your mum’s signing on to the dole. It’s not that appealing. If you think well hang on it sounds to me the only thing I’m doing is taking the something out of my life that gives me any pleasure.

So when I set the business up and the business started doing well, I started, you know, my bank account was going ridiculous and throughout my using in my 20s I always said as most junkies do if only I had access to the drugs I need I could just get on with my life it’s all this running around the Estates all the police hassle that’s what that’s what’s ruining my life! Never the drugs! Is never the drugs! When you’re an addict it’s always outside forces that’s how you recognize it. So suddenly I add like half a kilo of heroin I can remember I used to hold the door open with it. I add about a kilo of skunks in there. I have 50,000 valium that we were bringing in from Thailand so I had all the drugs I could want! Literally all the drugs like one.

And, of course, my life went down hill, or I’d wake up in the chair I fell asleep in there was about two litre bottles of urine surrounding the chair. I just didn’t do anything. I just sat there. I only ate if someone brought me something. I was just disappearing.

And the girlfriend at the time said look you’ve got money now you don’t have to go to one of these shocking NHS detox facilities why don’t you spend a bit of money and go somewhere off this and then come out and you’ve got a job! You’ve got a business you could go on holiday you could live your life. And for the first time in sort of 15 years using I thought well hang on she’s got a very good point there.

So I went to rehab. I thought I really fall and really fall I sort of I don’t do well being told what to do. But at some point during that rehab center. I just put me hands up when all right go on I’m gonna do whatever you say. And I got clean! I got clean for the first time ever! And they told me to hang around for about another six weeks, because they don’t, you know, it’s not a good idea to be turfed out on the street as soon as you’re clean. So I was desperate to leave. I hated the place I hate institutions.

But, you know, like I said I’d put me hands up and said I’ll do I’m told. And during that six weeks a they put me through a lot of therapy group therapy about what you’re gonna do when you get out. Because when you’ve been out you’re nut twenty-four seven, suddenly 24 hours a day is a lot of time! And when you’ve spent your time out of your mind you’re not gonna be sleeping properly for about another year, you know, you’re gonna be getting about two, or three hours a night.

And so you’ll be waking up before the sun comes up, just sitting there going out of you’re nut with boredom and frustration. So they do a lot of work on you about how you’re gonna feel your day. And one of the things they talked about was what sort of skills you’ve got and how you might be able to use those to fill up some of your time.

And so they get you in a group and they ask the group they go around the groups and walk what’s Chris good at? Was what’s Chrissy strongpoints? And everyone was saying telling jokes. Telling stories. Public speaking, all that sort of stuff. And so when they come back to me I said [45:00] well I’ve always quite fancied being a comedian. And they all just went that this is it this is the one obviously! This is perfect for you!

And then it was quite funny actually one of the therapists if all alright let’s assume we get you a gig next week. Wash your washer first joke? And I said to him, I said well it’s not really jokes my stuff, it’s stories. But I did once have sex with a disabled girl on acid, and I think there’s a few laughs there! And, of course, they all laughed, for the wrong reasons!

But weirdly enough that was the first story I told as a stand-up comic, and it was the last story I told as a stand-up comic! So it was actually a good story, but that’s how I got into stand-up it was a question of getting clean and needed to fill time.

Horus: It was the first and last story told by pure coincidence?

Chris: Yeah well obviously I didn’t start on think I know ten years later. Sorry but I made yeah. Just by coming to this and I only realised myself a couple of months after I finished.

Horus: Beautifully executed plan up movie!

Chris: Palin joint career.

Simon: Okay, so from there how did you get to nationalism, because Paul Rimmer’s in the chat oh I need to email Paul probably. Rimmel is saying um nationalism is getting very avant-garde today, which I suppose it is. So oK you’ve got all this background, so how did you get it you’re one of us now.

Chris: Well I think historically most radically political movements require weirdos, outliers, and freaks to form. I mean, it’s I think I’m kind of perhaps clear more clearly a weirdo in a freak but, you know, even Mark [Collett] even yourselves, even Laura [Towler], On the Offensive, Dan, you know, we’re almost the people that haven’t fitted in other groups, or got turfed out of other groups. I think political movements do they, I think the core of a political movement is comprised of outliers, and people who aren’t satisfied with what’s previously been on offer.

But to answer your question, because that’s a slightly different point. To answer your question so I the communism was just like an identity thing after that I had the flags Ram of Rome. I’d the little Soviet submarine on the lapel. But I wasn’t in any way politically active! And of course, at this point, now I’m running an online business. I’m studying online marketing, because I want to do a bit more of that in the business. So I’m not a communist! I’ve not anywhere near a communist! I am out-and-out capitalist! And then so it wasn’t I still said I was a good way getting a bit of attention occasionally the girls like it, you know, they think it’s Romantic and it’s sexy. And that I can I prove that many times!

But um a friend come so I wasn’t really politically active at all. But I was finding a lot of my previous ideas to do the French thinkers wasn’t really holding up it started feeling a little bit sort of airy-fairy. Sort poetic and not really anything to do the real world. And there was a kind of catastrophe going on there with me, because look what is this stuff for? Is this just for sitting around going oh you’re right language is terribly contradictory Tarquin! But not actually doing anything with it.

And then a friend turned up very good friend of comedian Trevor Locke. And he said to me one day when do you know what an Social Justice Warrior is? And this was about 2015. And I was like no I don’t. And he said I’ll send you some links. And so he sent me some links usual suspects, Gamergate kind of stuff that what was that what did they call them at the time? They’re the cynic what was it called gripstic. Yeah we talked about this the other men armored skeptics chew on it, or listen to these people they’re out there but, you know, yes but an entry point of Sargon obviously. Which I think has been an entry point for plenty of people.

Got into that and it was lovely, because I had feminism rammed down my throat! And I went I walked round one of my art colleges with potential rapists written on my forehead on the back of being talked old about. I mean, no big deal but I was only 22 it seemed quite cool at the time.

But to actually hear other people having massive problems of feminism, then multiculturalism, then diversity, inclusion. So I just followed that followed that followed that and, you know, five years later Here I am! In a pursuit for truth as well! I didn’t see coming on the horizon for how do I get there I just followed followed the honestly.

Horus: And I know Simon I know we’re coming towards, or the trial point of a thing, but I just wanted to [50:00] ask briefly danger killed what how company on pen is that was that an accident, or is that you particularly like on pen?

Chris: I was living in Soho. I was paying a fortune for rent for a tiny little place. I realized I have got no family and no children. It was quite weird actually it was one Christmas I remember looking around my bed sit and thinking he you’re 44 where’s where’s your family? What is this Christmas? What you hear on YouTube again?

And I just saw I need to make some changes I’ve got to get out I’ve got to get out Soho. I didn’t want to live somewhere in England that wasn’t going to keep me interested, because if I’m not if I haven’t got things to engage me I know what happens to me. And it’s not good. And so really I mean, it was financial mainly, because my money were four times as much out here, but I’m also old, you know, I’m also I’m also nearly 50. And I just thought I can’t be doing with these winters. I’m gonna go I’m gonna move out to Asia.

Horus: I got arthritis in my foot and I’ve spent a bit of time in Southeast Asia and my arthritis doesn’t bother me.

Chris: Out there no I am completely a different person physically it’s this is just a fact isn’t it.

Horus: Oh just got crimes one more question as well Simon just.

Simon: Okay go on then.

Horus: We mentioned living Marxism earlier and obviously that was a product of what grew out of the RCP?

Chris: Yeah.

Horus: And which was Brendan O’Neal’s group Frank Brady Claire Fox another is right. Just about them, you know, because they hated bother though I think I was left is from they are hated by the left, because they’re like super contrary leftists.

Do you think that the point in doing that is that they believe that the rest of the radical left has forgotten about the importance of class war, or neglected class? And they were actually trying to get everyone to stop focusing on gender, and all these other things that they see as distractions and just refocus on being a class movement? Or do you think that spiders are actually not leftists anymore?

Chris: I don’t think they left us anymore.

Horus: What do you feel they are?

Chris: I think that they still have a lot of time for a lot of the stuff they used to read. Something strange is what you do fed me that and I’m gonna throw it back to you sewing strange. But I don’t think I don’t they’re certainly not Marxist Leninist which they somewhere once. I don’t know I read I know a lot of people don’t like Brendan O’Neill but he’s kind of it kind of gets accepted into the media and he called does call some problems there,

Horus: But he’s right.

Chris: And he must know he must know that he’s keeping his mouth shut he must, or is that just a delusion of what you think is that just what you think, because when you think something.

Horus: I don’t know all right maybe we can’t answer that.

Simon: You see I suspect that he’s a bad actor, you know, I don’t.

Horus: They take money from the Koch brothers.

Simon: Yeah the name spiked, what happens what happens when you spike a drink.

Chris: You’re so suspicious!

Simon: I mean, I published books on the conspiracy theory.

Chris: There you go, there you go!

Simon: So I try I try not to go too far down! I try to maintain some kind of sensibleness. But yeah, um I’m cases of them as well. Yeah I’m very, very, very suspicious.

Chris: I think the likes of Brandon O’Neil would struggle where he took money from I’ll just tell you that mark the Soviet Revolution was funded by JP Morgan, or something. And this is standard service for him. Yeah.

Simon: Okay well this has been a kind of longer introduction to work kind of where I wanted to get to really. Which was we’re talking about what was the title again I can’t remember yeah keeping them keeping your political projects on point with Dangerfield! Keep keeping a keeping a livestream on point with age if they do you feel should be the title really.

But the other day, or we’ve been recently talking about things like optics. It’s kind of very interesting that somebody with your past would have problems with optics. And I suppose that Horus can lay out his position. And this is you’ve I’ve hinted at my slyly suspicious conspiratorial views of not really trusting anybody. But I think that I think there are bad actors moving society and they’ve got to be rooted out. I think we’ve got a false version of a great deal of the history [55:01] which provides which unless we speak about it honestly is always going to be a handicap to people realizing who they are.

I don’t really think the Germans are the enemy. We’ll get onto that later and the picture that I put up on the street is the screen now the picture up on the screen of this bulldog spitfire nationalism with our patriotism and nationalism is trapped in something that’s taking us nowhere. And is built on a lie. I don’t know if you’ve got anything else to add to that Horus?

Horus: Well I think that’s true. Although I think we and other forces are diminishing that facts. Like I mean, bulldog patriotism is not what it was 20, or 30 years ago. I think most people even on the right would have a bit of a smirk if they speak about it, you know. So I think and like ya thought in my I’m over the last since that summer has been to were to try and a sort of tunnel under it or, you know, put a bomb in the middle of it.

Because I think it’s in the way, and it’s a problem. But yeah, I mean, it does it well the idea of the war anyway. And the idea of church it was the greatest Britain ever on that still has quite a significant hold on people.

And as I pointed out to someone else the other day, or was even this show last week, that the person who, you know, the BBC poll with where Churchill was voted Great Britain ever. That was argue for his advocate was my moment who was obviously part of Blair’s government. So it has a hold on the center and center-left as well. And it works for them, it doesn’t work for us.

Simon: Yeah and okay Dangerfield this involves people like Horus and I sometimes appearing to speak favorably of a certain Austrian painter. And I think in many respects this was the point where you were upset about this for a moment and came back. I don’t know. This is not a coherent question.

But can I have your thoughts on why that happened? What do you think about Horrors at horses in my position? And where this might fit into PA and the optics that we’re trying to get together?

Chris: Okay!

Simon: I was gonna get to this.

Chris: Talking about being suspicious. When you mention bad actors who need weeding out. I thought to expose me! This is sure this is gonna be my downfall! What a Monday night! Well.

Horus: I’ll just say one thing that thanks for I would have been dismayed if we lost you that would have been terrible I think you’re yeah I mean,

Simon: We were quite surprised strongly in favor and what one of the reasons why Horus and I said immediately let’s invite him on as soon as possible. That would this was our solution.

Chris: So that’s very kind! The honest with you I was shocked about how many people gave a shit and the depth of their shit giving! I really was I didn’t, you know, I know that a lot of people don’t like me anywhere near this movement.

When Morgoth called me out on his stream I was inundated with abuse from nationalists, telling me that lot of things saying things like don’t know how you ended up in our circles anyway you bleep bleep bleep, you know, wave upon wave of abuse.

So it did it I was good, you know, it was a nice surprise actually for people to consider me relevant. But so there’s two questions that you kind of put two questions to me. The first one is how I if I forgot you right how would someone with my past be able to question optics in such a movement? But I actually think that my past is one of the strengths of my channel.

Because when I are, you know, I grew up in a working-class town and everyone took drugs from about age fourteen! Everyone just took drugs! I’ve lost so many friends to drugs! And it that includes alcohol. Most to alcohol. The ones I haven’t lost to alcohol by dying you in prison for domestic violence, car crashes, whatever, you know, the sort of 30, or 40 people I could probably think of the top my head. And, you know, that the last 30 years in the UK working-class people have been promoted to take drugs! It’s part of the youth culture, probably like never before. I certainly think more than the 60s.

My mom says my mom’s got like a Baudrillard comment about the 60 she says it never happened, you know, she said there’s probably about 20 hippies somewhere that happened to turn up where the film crews were but no one else knew them. But my experience of growing up in working-class communities and what I’ve heard from and seen of them as I’ve got older is this carries on. So many [60:02] people on my channel we email me I’m currently getting about 30 a day. Every stream I sail so if you’re gonna email me keep it short. I just been it. But I’d say I get about five a day at the moment from people saying I’m so glad you talked about drugs. I’m so glad that you haven’t hidden this, because I feel that I can’t be a nationalist, because I smoke weed, or I can’t be in nationalist, because occasionally I do got appeals with the missus.

And all this sort of thing and I think so many people have put off by I think the phrase is “purity spiralling” before I forgot the meaning of that right. That you can’t have done anything ever in your life you kind of made any mistakes. And if you go near an eighth of skunk you’re not allowed in this club. And I think lots of people find it quite refreshing that actually this person is humor and he’s made mistakes he’s got a past. But he still can look at collectivizing and red pill in White working-class communities.

Which is how where I see my role in this. Motivating the collective eyes and the people I’ve been talking about neighborhood watch teams. I’ve been talking about having local barbecues, using scare halls, you know, very basic quite boring on the ground level stuff. So that’s the easy part of the question is the answer.

The Austrian painter business. This is Furcal Ave this isn’t just me, you know,

Simon: I know we know this is kind of widespread.

Chris: Well it’s a probably nearly nearly five hundred, six hundred thousand subscribers worth of YouTube content creators. Big ones that you all know who don’t want to put their head above the parapet, because you get swooped down on like I did. It was like leaving Scientology. But they don’t want to mention it.

But you all know them. Most of you probably watch these people. They don’t know how to approach it. They don’t know how to talk about it. But the main point is very little is gained by these things! Very little is gained by Mark [Collett] saying his favorite three books. Very little is gained from any of this stuff. But we sacrifice a hell of a lot.

Again going back to the emails. I know it’s kind of anecdotal but it’s daily. Every day a handful of emails I’m desperate to get on board I’m disgusted what’s happening in our country, but I cannot sign up to Nazism. I cannot sign up so the Austrian painter! I don’t want anything to do with it!

The British his video the other day. Absolute nonsense! Madness from start to finish. But there was a 10-second bit where I couldn’t argue with him. And it was that stuff. So I my bottom line is I don’t think anything is gained from it, and I think loads is sacrificed. And once this movement becomes big enough to start engaging the media, that is gonna drag us down, and potentially cause the movement to fail.

Simon: I think both Horus and I take your points completely onboard. I think that the I think what is to be gained about my tell you my view is if I couldn’t study research what I research, I’m not a Nazi, I don’t think I don’t think it’s I don’t think it’s feasible in 2020, to relive the politics of the 1930s. I think they’re very time specific but trying to break down the web of lies that have been built around you okay let’s I mean, if the channel gets into trouble for saying hitless then so be it.

But there’s a whole whole web of lies about the causes of the Second World War. Churchill is our greatest hero. Hitler is the most evil man in history. And then a particular event that took place in prison camps in concentration camps is the thing that White people have to be guilty of for the rest of the rest of history! Somehow picking away at that myth, at parts of that myth I think is incredibly important.

Because as long as it remains, we will never be able to be free, because Churchill will be rammed in our faces! And the historical event will be rammed in our faces! And will be forced to be guilty again and we won’t be allowed to collectivize. And that will be the reason behind it.

Chris: Well I it’s reassuring to see a hell of a hell of a lot of your chat agree with me. See it as they’re probably your viewers. I don’t recognize those names. But I agree with what you just said. I’m aware of what happened down in those times mainly from what I’ve learned from Horus, and gone off and looked into afterwards.

But that [65:01] trying to try to involve that retelling of that story at the moment, I just think is crazy! That that can come a long way down the line. At the moment it’s I just think it makes us vulnerable. I just I to try and make that part of the same project of collectivizing, I think his is a terrible strategy! I just think it’s we can do this once you’ve got people collectivizing, once we become powerful, once we’ve got people going to regular meetings, this stuff can be aired, this stuff can be discussed! This stuff can be debated, no problem!

But it doesn’t it pretty much defines us at the moment. When anyone outside of this movement refers to Patriotic Alternative, the next word is Nazis! And we didn’t need to do that. It isn’t helping us and we did not need to do that!

Simon: Horus?

Horus: Yeah, I think so too. It can only make things more difficult. What it’s a way of tried to sort of I don’t know about connects all things up in my mind it’s just that what see a lot of people who are on the more fascist end they’re likely in their own beliefs are saying we’re going to be called Nazis wherever we do. That is absolutely true. On the other end I’m not sure that those people are accounting for the many of us who just aren’t fascists. Like we just we know there’s not the system which want to create. And also black we’re not I mean, a lot of us I mean, in my case. I’ve made this series of revisionist videos.

My aim is to what there’s several things coming once when my aim said the war was a disaster for Britain, you know, for Europe in general. For the West. It’s not to say in my case the Hitler did nothing wrong, because that, because I don’t believe that. And I don’t believe and mine is not to make people believe that and to convince people that actually we should’ve I don’t know exactly what people on the Nazi sort of fascist tender saying are they actually say that we should have National Socialism in Britain? I don’t think we should have anything from the 30s, because that’s the past, right? What we should have is a system that broadly in my opinion that broadly continued our way of life, other than what the traitors and Marxists and leftists have done to us.

Well I like Britain fundamentally. I just think it’s been taken over by awful people. So I don’t have any sort of particularly admiring ideas about the NSDAP, or anything like that. They were sort of just what came in Germany. They said they would saw, you know, cometh the hour cometh the man in Germany and that time. It’s not really that relevant. What I do like the swastika! I will always say that! [chuckling] both what I think we’ve got to sort of address.

I don’t really have the answers this week, or address why well I guess this is a question for people like the fascist end of a movement why are you so admiring of it? But maybe this will begin to help the rest of us deal with it, you know? What I will say though is to those on the outside who and not nationalists that’s all and who come at us with the Nazi angle. I would just say some look right. I said this last week when Dan was on. What I don’t want and I’m not looking to create a National Socialist system. I don’t know whether Mark is, right?

I haven’t at least poked him that, but mark is right on the question that matters most. Should our people be destroyed? Should we become subjugated by foreigners in our land? And he’s, in fact, correct on that! And that’s why I share with him. And that’s why I’m in the same movement as him! And I guess this might sound a bit traitorous to say, but a lot if there was an if 50% of the country was already nationalists, as who may implicitly be, but obviously not overtly. Maybe I wouldn’t be in the same way but. Maybe I’ll be in the same movement as people we were just nationalists but more liberal, or more traditionally British, you know, I don’t know!

But as it stands right we’re fighting to get people to care about the existence of the nation. And I’m very happy to be on the same side as the fascists, and the Nazis, in that sense, right? Because what, because this is the question of this is the number one pressing question.

I’m sorry I’m not really saying if you’re very clear. It’s such a complicated thing to try and deal with. But I just think as it stands I’m absolutely on the same side as Mark, because, you know, and all the people we were sort of admirers of Hitler, and so on, because our very existence is the pressing question!

Simon: My position is slightly different from Horus’s I think. Horus looks at the historical events. What I do is I kind of read what the thinkers of the various I [70:02] call them various kinds of nationalism. And okay let’s have the obligatory mention of Jose Antonio primo de Rivera, for this stream! Chris, in case you don’t know this, this is something we do every week!

Chris: I know!

Simon: Yeah okay you do know. Okay he’s been mentioned now. But like I’ve read reason about a moseley now a reason about of Jose Antonio. I mentioned yesterday in a video made I made that I tweeted outs the NSDAP. 25 points.

Well if you look at all these nationalisms you find how milquetoast and how relatively moderate a lot of the proposals are. And the reason why I think they’re useful to read and obviously not for everyone. Not everybody is like me. But the fact that I’m interested in reading these texts is very much like the Left. The Left can quote marks can quote Trotsky can quote Lenin despite the terrible things they’ve done. And although the modern left bears very little relation to the people that wrote those formative texts. The last example of nationalisms really is 1920s, and 1930s.

And reading them and understanding what people say said at the time and realizing that there were various, very similar, but quite different movements in lots of different countries I’ve actually not got round to look looking at Hitler yet. But it’s all along a similar lines along similar lines. In order to understand the world we’re living in now and formulate a modern a modern point of view, because obviously since 1945 the world has changed a great deal we’ve got immigration to face with now the whole sexual revolution women’s liberation. There’s lots and lots of things that make it completely different.

But a lot of those ticks are relevant. They help youth, or certainly help me focus on the points at hand. And look at the look at the modern situation in a new light. I think that’s what they’re for they’re obviously not for the whole public. I don’t know.

Chris: Well look the thing is I agree with you! Look how could I weave all my railing against the mainstream media, say don’t read those books, because the mainstream media said they’re evil! What why would I suddenly trust them now?

Of course, give those books who read mine can’t give it a read! David Dukes biography give it read! It, of course, I get that! However, this isn’t just about truth. This is has to involve marketing. And we have to play by their rules. And if I was marketing a movement like PA and I was sending out an email 100,000 people, front and foremost, wouldn’t be the interest in Nazism! Because it does it’s terrible! It doesn’t look good!

Those debates that that interest that nolley can come later. It puts people off and when you talk about the Left and they can where they’re Che Guevara T-shirt some wave their hammer and sickles I think luckily that turns a majority of people off them too. They look at them and think I don’t anything to do all that comment nonsense. In much the same way as it does us.

And I’ll tell you now if a movement formed tomorrow that was identical to PA in terms of policy in terms of wishes and requirements but didn’t have any of that stuff. I reckon three-quarters if not more people would migrate over that day.

Horus: Yeah it does seem to go against marketing sense to show admiration for the NSDAP, and so on, right? And yeah it doesn’t really gain us anything. I mean, it shows fidelity among a small section of the movement for their own ideas.

Chris: And those people they’re not going to come to us sorry to interrupt you but they’re not going to come to us and say well I like everything you say, but I’m a bit dubious about this. Can we sit down for two hours and you can explain it all to me? They’re not going to give you that chance. They just in think all fuck that I’ve got a job and I’ve got a family if this gets out that I’m fraternizing with these I’m in big trouble!

You know, when I spoke to Mark. When I sort of rather flippantly said I’ll be separating my tenuous link. I didn’t think I was that significant. I wasn’t trying to be blase. But I honestly didn’t. But he explained it to him it took about 80, 90 minutes. And this is someone talking to someone like me who’s very open, who doesn’t trust the media, who’s very up for understanding. And we haven’t got the luxury of that 90 minute talk with everyone we’re trying to recruit recruit.

If the media wanted to put a five-minute montage together to crush us, they could [75:02] probably put five minutes of pro narts ISM just from start to finish, and it would look awful. Whereas if you took all that stuff out they couldn’t. It would be people saying things about loving their people respecting nations the world over one in one in National Agency for All Nations they’d struggled to find negativity. But at the moment that there they’ll have to chop 90 minutes down to five.

Horus: Well old ass didn’t know you’d like that well that makes me think of his then say right how do how do you take PA forward, because what’s I mean, Mark is the leader right. Say the king this sounds horrible but like say if you carry on and at some point Mark ceases to be the leader, you know, for the sake of some sort of what marketing successful electoral success right. But you’re not going to expel him from the movement, right?

And so they’re just gonna say prominent PA member, or prominent PA activist, Mark Collett, or other people. They’re going to be able to name them. So I mean, and we’re not gonna do that we’re not going to exclude all the people who are sympathetic to fascism from the movement. So how’d it so well so we have to go forward in a quite a combative way anyway as far as I can see.

Chris: I think political movements. I think PA is very, very early days, you know, it said what’s who two conferences. It’s barely germinated from the seed. It might just be the seed even. Not even a plant yet let alone a tree. So it’s very early days. And I think movements move forward, dialectically I think the debates are ongoing their continual and as they get resolved so the movement moves forward.

And I think look as I said, at the beginning this the amount of people and prominent people we’ve got major issues with this stuff, who are starting to say, you know, I’m thinking of pulling back, or I’m gonna say something, or this, or whatever. I think this is important. I think that everyone involved should be humble enough to take it on and put the movement first. And I think it’s actually through that natural kind of dialectic movement it will get sorted out.

Simon: Well I mean, this is it really about this I’m very much welcomed. I didn’t welcome when you said you were leavings but I welcome the fact that you brought the subject out into the open, because it’s definitely something that needs to be talked talked about.

And I’ll repeat once again I have third position. I think I suppose I’m not on a conventional left and what left and right continuum. And strangely some of my old socialist beliefs fit into that third position quite well. But that doesn’t mean all of the stuff surrounding the Second World War that doesn’t mean it applies to me. It’s purely political theory. But the fact that we’re talking about this and recognizing that there are this is a broad church.

And there are many, many different points of view points of view within this group that is foreign forming at the moment. And what unites us is principally the demographic challenge on Western Europe! That’s the uniting point and that’s the point we really need to get behind. But at the same time we need to knock out some of these ideological points, even if any kind of power any kind of real political success is a long way away, because we need to sort out a standard line to take.

Chris: You know, I didn’t actually say at the time I don’t think but the reason I made that was going to make that video we’re in the description I said I will be explaining why I am cutting my tenuous links with PA, was, because I sat down and I thought, you know, first of all I thought about the reality of being a nationalist, you know, Woes made an interest in video I think it went up yesterday. Where he was saying, you know, he was just considering the likelihood of being assassinated. And he’s putting it right out there, but who knows what happens? Worse things have happened and less bad things have happened to political groups in the past.

And I was thinking those sorts of things. I was thinking what are my actual responsibilities? What am I taking, or moving forward in the twilight of my life now that might affect me? And I spent a good few days really trying to think of that and reading stuff that was relevant. And I thought, you know what the meaning, the meaning this movement has given to me through the responsibility is worth that. And in how would me and it made me feel like a man. And it made me feel mature and I was alright with that. But then the next bit [80:00] was what happens if let’s say for instance next week this community gets a media sort of expose, and then I’m associated with Nazism for the rest of my days?

And what am I going to have to make a video ago I didn’t know! I didn’t know that there was about Nazism! I didn’t know that the leader was into Hitler! I didn’t know! And that wouldn’t be believed! And so I wanted to make that point clear, before the event, because you can’t disavow afterwards, because it’s weak. It’s always obviously you’re just when you’ve been caught out you saw like oh I’m sorry I didn’t know.

So that’s why I wanted to make that point and I’m, you know, I’m kind of glad we’ve talked about this now again, because hopefully I’ve made that point clear. I don’t want anything to do with it. I don’t think it helps at the moment.

Simon: Horus?

Horus: I don’t know I’m just I’m thinking as we go along. This is so odd to actually know what’s right, because we’re not just talking about an optics debate are we? Like, because that that seems to tear apart the American alright. If we if it is just an optics debate, I think if both sides are right. As in we can’t join the Left and the centre and the traitor right in saying we’re gonna disavow all fascists, or anyone who’s sympathetic with Nazism, whatever.

On the other end obviously everyone who does work with fascists and Nazis at all just has a much harder task than what they’d have otherwise right. So obviously both sides are writing that and it is irresolvable as far as I can tell. But we’re also talking about well the thing is right in terms of what we actually believe it’s just I don’t give a crap that that Mark likes Hitler! Because I’m convinced that he likes he thinks it’s good for our people, right?

And the core thing there is that he cares what’s good for our people, right? So that doesn’t bother me. So for me I guess I am just talking about, you know how we can win how we can succeed. And that, of course, the thing that we’re all very concerned about if I understand correctly is that we’re just going to struggle to convince people like our families our friends their families their friends, and so on, so join us in this movement, because they’re going to be so alarmed at who we’re working with, right?

Is that what is that mainly what we try to resolve here? That we’re not gonna be able to convert, you know, more than a small percentage of people would you would, you know, that’s the main problem?

Chris: Horus for years always part of Narcotics Anonymous right. And why don’t it not quite yet Anonymous is an offshoot of Alcoholics Anonymous where all the literature was written in 1950s, Bible Belt America. And it’s riddled with God, you know, it’s a 12-step program. And twelve of seven of the 12 steps mentioned God.

And the problem I had with that when I was in NA was when you bring newcomers to NA people who are desperate for help and they’re all that they run a mile! And even according to Narcotics Anonymous is own research and something like 90% of people leave, because they’re not interested in that.

I used to go into Wormwood Scrubs and do NA meetings with the convicts, wherever you want to call them. And the prisoners. And, you know, that stuff they just laughter they laughed that. And at the end of a meet in every one holds hands you say a prayer. And they just laugh it I used to have to pick people up from probation centers and walk them to meetings.

And on the way I’d be like listen you can get clean it without a doubt, but they’re gonna mention God a lot. And these kids who’ve grown up in broken homes, or the mud will give them their first error in injection when they were 10 they just like what, you know, they don’t want to know. Now what I used to say was I get that you need a higher power I get that it doesn’t have to be a Christian God. But that should be saved for a lot later, you know, once people get used to trusting humans which is the first problem that we can start talking to them later about them having faith in something bigger than them.

And it’s much the same with all of this. You know, when I’m talking to people who have shown an interest people who know my channel from the stories and they say to me I mean, like all this nationalism stuff and I just they say what videos can you recommend? And I’m thinking right what ones aren’t gonna mention any of that stuff, because much like the god stuff in NA it will repel them they don’t want to be associated with that. They can’t defend it amongst their friends. Five, or six years down the line they might be able to when they’ve at the time and they’ve been around people and they’ve read the books, or whatever.

I’m not saying that anyone’s wrong about this stuff. I’m just saying in terms of the basics such as how we appear in the media, how the media will represent us, and how newcomers will be repelled, it’s a massive negative. And at this and at this stage I can’t see what we [85:00] benefit from it.

Horus: I do agree. I do agree.

Simon: Yeah yes very marketing isn’t it?

Horus: Um what I would say is that oh well I mean, say saying you’ve had you had gone ahead with what you were gonna say last week and you did, you know, cut your losses hires whatever it was the plan. You would still have a broader nationalist movement?

Chris: Yeah for sure. For sure. I mean, I’ve kind of shaped moved anyway I’m focusing on collectivization, that’s where I’m going at the moment that’s what I think, you know, considered quite boring street-level stuff. I’m really into what Gavin boab is doing as well I think I all.

Horus: Hail Gavin Boby!

Simon: He’ll go in moment going Boby Boby Boby Gavin Boby he was gonna be on this week but Gavin Boby is also concerned about some of the things that I’ve spoken about in the past, you know, because, you know, doesn’t want to come on the show.

Chris: There you go, you know, you know what I’ll have a word of him. But, you know what based on the patron he got off the back of the stream with me he can now boss one bust one mosque a month! And he has an 80% success rate.

Simon: Yes I know I’ve interviewed Gavin twice. I’d yeah really like Gavin. But yeah, he’s concerned about certain certain things.

Chris: What could it be? What are you talking about?

Simon: No it was actually the it was actually my when I came out on the JQ. I don’t know if I’ll go over this again. But when you break through this, or certainly in my case as a result of my conversation with Brian of London. Yeah I did suffer from JQ derangement syndrome for a short! While so you can find some rather unfortunate, unmeasured, not very well thought out comments, from me around that time. That doesn’t mean that’s what I believe, I think.

Once you as you as there as you go through the process the your opinions become a lot more moderate and a lot more balanced. It simply isn’t the fact, it’s not the jews everywhere! It’s much it’s much more complex than that, I can say this openly. But he was worried about what I might have said a couple of years ago.

Chris: Sorry go on Horus.

Horus: I’m just gonna say that the fact that Kevin’s not keen to come on with us that says something about what we’re doing. Because we are like, you know, we’re the Nazis to some people. And I don’t, you know, know I know that I’m not, you know, but I we’re still over the line, you know, I mean, over the line, you know, there’s a line for affirmation for a lot of people. We’re over it we were unacceptable even to Gavin who’s against Islam.

Simon: Yeah.

Chris: And Gavin Gavin is quite amazing he has some very interesting thoughts on the breakdown of the welfare state the NHS dole money and the ghettoization of immigrant communities. He’s got some really interesting and very White pilling stuff to talk about actually. I’ve got a lot of time for Gabby.

Simon: Yeah.

Horus: Everyone listening sugar should watch Chris’s recent chat with Katherine and take some that a chatroom.

Chris: Yeah I’d actually say Jake sees one’s better, because we kind of focus on the most busted stuff which I think has been, you know, he’s got been through the mill a few times out there, but when he talks to Jake’s and lot i.e., that he really goes into that stuff.

And I mean, I don’t want to go to off topic but I’m interest no saw there’s mud there’s multiple things going on. There’s a sort of political cultural changes of things up PA, but also social kind of change is going on. And, you know, many different things happening which actually look quite promising for us.

Simon: You know, one of the reasons why I want to speak to him again is you were you have heard the Nick Griffin interview? But it seems to me that I could have I could have taken advantage of Gavin Boby’s theories, because in the second of my interviews with him what in 2017 he was just beginning to formulate some of those ideas.

And I think they’re a great counter-argument to make Griffin’s kind of hopeless message about when society starts breaking down, all White people are lost. Because I think the ethnic groups aren’t a homogenous homogeneous group and society will break down in very unpredictable ways which won’t necessarily always be that disadvantageous to the indigenous population.

Chris: Yeah.

Horus: If we do speak together and one question I wanted to put to him it’s not sort of those that is quite a [90:00] complicated man but was just he says when welfare begins to become unavailable. Whereas all right my thinking is that’s one of the last things that our governments would allow to happen, because they haven’t imported these people by accident, or by drift by is there’s some element of that. But also I think that they want more and more Muslims flown in. Maybe up to only a point. But we haven’t reached that point.

And they and that they maybe even see them as sort of their moat around their castle that protects our rulers, traitorous rulers, from us. I thought I doubt that they will allow that to happen. Although nobody can foresee exactly, because I mean, in a situation of real chaos icy roads.

Chris: I think the NHS is really looking at imploding and I think that’s on its last legs. And there’s only so much money they can chuck in it and there’s only so many work in White people they can keep taxing for that. And you why you just want to get into this story. Well yeah if.

Horus: We can talk together now I bring these things up with him, or maybe if we talk again Chris.

Chris: I think someone’s giving him a heads up I think he’s here, but maybe not now.

Simon: Okay sorry here Gavin, you know, I’d love to speak to you. And I didn’t you don’t need writing about me then.

Horus: We can stay away from all the topic too doesn’t that’s fine.

Chris: Yeah is it isn’t it funny how this network works someone’s got through to someone who’s emailed someone who’s waiting on someone else’s Telegram and bogeys phone’s gone Horus and Simon are talking about you well through his wife out the bed run to the computer!

Horus: Just if you’ve only just started listening Kevin I think you’re a hero. And I very much admire what you’re doing. And if you would like to be on the show, because we can steer away from any topic you don’t want to talk about.

Chris: Hang on he’s saying he in capitals unless it’s not him he says he’s due on your show tonight at seven? Maybe it’s not him. Maybe it’s not him I mean, he’s already gone seven and it oh.

Simon: Well okay then this will be we’ve had a misunderstanding of emails, because we never.

Horus: Is this a four hour show?

Chris: Well maybe it’s not him but he’s also saying he hasn’t refused to come on. But if you got his email haven’t you?

Simon: I mean, email him after this show.

Chris: Yeah have a quick dinner and then we can through another.

Simon: We heard a complete misunderstanding of emails then.

Chris: It might not be him.

Horus: He’s put in capitals THIS IS GAVIN Boby.

Simon: Perhaps we could have another stream well I’ll set up I’ll set it all up again.

Horus: I just say one more thing about what we were talking about just before and the boba question. Just in terms of my stance on how we relate to the leader of our movement and by people who, you know, sympathetic to fascism, and so on, my stance is that that I have didn’t no question of me stopping working with him, or with them, you know, with that that part of the movement.

And I will argue what, you know, obviously not the whole of the up he’s gonna come to me asking me what I think about it. The more the role of appointed myself is a to break down that taboo. About it which is what my videos waned at. And B to just to anyone who sits why are you working with these people is to say why are you not working for our people?

You don’t have to work with PA specifically, but just why are you not trying to save the country from this disaster visitors that were in the middle? Of so that’s my stance for the moment maybe I can’t was something better, but that’s my approach for now.

Simon: Okay let’s move on to the next topic, because this is another topic that will kind of get as cold all the nasty names. But this was a kind of blue peeling, a White pilling thing that came out the other day. I think Laura posted it originally, but this is a graphic of recent let me look at it more closely. This is a graphic of voluntary enforced and voluntary returns from the UK from 2014 to 2018. And you can see that people will return to their countries of origin of their of their own accord.

So consequently a lot lot of the things that people have been saying on the internet about PA recently is one they’ve got no policies to solve the demographics problem. And anyway, repatriation even suggesting repatriation is something close to [95:01] murder!

But as you can see from this graphic here that’s not the case people are willing to go home. And wither with a staged policy of, for example, getting rid of all illegals and criminals with dual citizenship for a start, you’d get rid of a quite a large chunk of the undesirable immigrants that are here. And by incentivizing people you’d probably end up we’re not talking about a completely hundred percent White ethnostate but getting to an England the Great Britain that is pretty much the Great Britain we grew up with, say ninety-five indigenous 95% indigenous. You’d be left with the immigrants that with the people who have come here that really want to stay and really provide value to the country. But we’re still gonna get called Nazis and fascists for even suggesting it.

Horus: A massive world unto Laura further turning this up and publicizing it, by the way, and massive world until iconic loss for his video in the same vein a few days ago. Everyone should check that out and share that one around. So I was there a question?

Simon: It’s more of a statement. Okay what do you think guys is the question?

Horus: There’s no right this is great for anyone who says repatriations can’t be done and it’s not going to happen it if fucking is! It’s happening already.

Chris: Yes I think is a White pill. I’m sorry to go backwards that was Gavin he’s just emailed me is him he thinks he’s coming on your show at seven o’clock. Simon he said he never said he wasn’t coming on so that was him. So that was him. There you go okay. So I told him I’d tell you.

Oh yeah that graph it was incredible I mean, they I thought Dan’s sorry the Iconoclast video with uh his name not power was it just talking about it and they just this idea that if you can’t do that you can’t do that everyone loves it the progressives like you can’t do that I mean, having millions of these people walk all off way around the world and flood their countries there’s such a bigger deal and everyone was just let it happen while they were in their dinner but what send it back you can’t do that! I mean, it’s absurd! It’s just absurd and I thought it was really great Laura to think that out yeah agreed.

Simon: One of the entry I suppose we need to what I wanted to do now is talk about the kind of practicalities of how this would go about. One of the interesting points that Dan raised I thought, or Enoch Powell raised in the interview that damn played with him in 1976 oh I think it was. Is all you have to do in many respects is to make is to make Britain a less conducive place to be. And not give not make life so easy for people who have just arrived here.

And the example that that Enoch Powell use would was not giving people benefits for dependents that are living in foreign countries. All you need to do is apply UK law and very, very quickly this is the life in the UK isn’t as nice isn’t as cushy and probably if you change that people start to leave.

Chris: Yeah I really I agree I think there’s a few different things there for the money there for the easy ride and with a few few things like what you just talked about a cultural change. Just White people collectivizing I think will make them think will hang on this is slightly more hostile to the easy ride we thought we were coming to.

And this is sorry to come back to it but this is kind of what Gavin’s saying he doesn’t think this stuff is gonna be difficult. He thinks these people start leaving in their droves once they see just the initial changes well, you know, once they see little changes happening where people are collectivizing people are changing their minds pressures being put. They’ll start thinking well I’m not gonna build a life here, because I can see what happens in 5, 10, years and I tend to agree with him. I think it’s really White pilling stuff. We, you know, you’ve kind of been sold this idea that things are set in stone and far from it.

Horus: I think a fair number of people would start leaving even if we just had sort of frequent extra bacon expressions in the media, or from a few politicians seriously! Quite a lot of people to here purely, because of the ridiculously pathetic! Craven state that the country as a whole is in. And if you just had a bit of assertiveness, you would have quite a lot of people quite frightened, and it would some of them would start eating back out of the door right, because if we like actually we’ve ever seen assertive Saxons in our lifetime.

And it’s no joke right, you know, [100:02] people who are the Anglo-Saxons and Celts you and not under the leash of traitors, or not I’m not wholly under the latest traitors, will be quite a fearsome sight! Before like quite a lot of the scumbags you’ve come in. And the people who genuinely loved us, you know, you’re genuinely liked and have adopted our way of life they were happy to go. I’ve got a jewish friend ended happily cause themselves English and I it’s just not in any way antagonistic towards the source, or subversive. And like that’s a sore person at once then you actually, you know, contribute, a good friend like. People who’ve come in it, because they see now easy to exploit we are they can be got rid of quite easily, at relatively little cost stuffing.

Chris: I agree and sorry just quickly so I mean, I also think these things like where criminals get sent home and, because once you send there all the immigrant criminals home then their families go home and again I think that starts the ball rolling. People think we’ll hang on this isn’t what we thought it was. No I think this is all very interesting. A very, very White pilling.

Simon: I think something else you can do and particularly with the Muslim was in question well actually Muslim and jewish question. Is simply apply law on things like, for example, well polygamy with Muslims, you know, a man in Britain can have one wife and one family and one set of benefits for that family if they’re unemployed. You apply English law on halal and kosher on Sharia and birthing courts on gentle music mutilation. And once the environment is geared in such a way that it’s going to be very different difficult for these people to practice with their religions which they sincerely believe in, then they’re going to be look there’s gonna be less propensity for them to stay I’m sure.

Chris: That stuff particularly Royals me, because these laws already in place. Why we’re letting people have multiple wives and claim benefits for all of a man their kids this is just insane! These laws already exist! Just implement them, shocking.

Simon: Yeah totally! And also I’ve kind of thought about this quite a lot other things that you can do with this yeah simply stopping the favorable treatment. I think it’s pretty clear that this positive discrimination I don’t think that’s the term they use now and in this century but positive justice discrimination in terms of benefits housing jobs, you know, we’ve seen the cases in the BBC. As soon as that stopped and you and you give you put people on an even playing field then that’s also going to make life much more difficult for them. At the moment we’ve got a society that’s completely geared to making the immigrants triumph above the interests of the indigenous population.

Chris: Well it’s absurd that these people have become protected groups, because it’s a really it’s a very weird little language sort of linguistic trick that, because they’re protected groups. Of what actually that means is they’re first-class citizens, because we’re not protected we then become second-class.

I remember when I first saw mark say about us being second-class citizens in their own country I didn’t kind of buy it. But when you think of it from that angle that these other groups are protected and, you know, look at Rotherham look at all that lot, the media the authorities the social services the police that they all turn their backs! Just crazy! Absolutely crazy!

And yet all that’s got to change! And actually that stuff has got a change in line with our laws that are already there it hasn’t got it we I’m going to change our laws people have just got to enforce them. I find this side of things particularly infuriating, because the other things should be on top of those things. But they that’s not even being done. I mean, what, how much do our governments hate us?

Horus: I think that’s a crucial point our Lords should actually not only not change they should be restored to what they will were they were like a lot of the laws have been added, you know, the powers have been added to state over the last 20 years, specifically to deal with problems mostly caused by Muslims. All the new powers and the consi intelligence services saw the ability to lock people up without trial for 28 days.

That’s all coming to deal with problems that have been imported all of that should be repealed! Like it got rid of! All the new all the new bodies set up so ever to us make sure we closed! Christen our engines should be restored and the people who supposedly caused the need to override those things should be expelled [105:00] obviously! Obviously! Right it does shouldn’t even be the same she expelled from the country. So in this moment sorry here I was just going to say Kevin seems quite intent on you looking at your emails.

Simon: Yeah I’ve seen I can’t do the show and right at the same time.

Chris: Simon and Horus I don’t know where but this is the direction you want to take things in but it’s kind of relevant to the direction we’ve gone in what do you make of Kai Murros and his angle and what’s going to happen? Because I ain’t Irv you dim and he says that there’s going to be not a revolution of such but a violent uprising. His kind of angle is, because we haven’t got the privilege of White flight he says you move out of London you’re in Birmingham in a couple of hours. And he says when you chase animals into corners us when they’re at the most ferocious. And he’s completely sold on this. He says that Europe is going to explode in the next few years.

Horus: Yeah I have a litte whirlwind right he’s saying we will win.

Chris: Because we got the numbers and also we’ve got nowhere else to go this is our only homeland, you know, it’s not like it’s not like America where you can drive for five hours and move to another White community. We’re running out of them.

And that’s his whole angle he gave a great speech in London a few years ago. No one’s seen it’s worth checking out. But I do I listen to him sometimes I think it’s kind of rousing for the sake of rails. It’s kinda like nationalist propaganda you listen to one of his speech you listen to him talk and you all get sort of fired up. And then you that slowly sort of dissipates and you become a nationalist, rather than support me.

Mark doesn’t buy it at all. Mark mark says if the White people haven’t haven’t done that on the back of all the child rapes they’re not going to do it at all, which is also a good point.

Simon: I think we need to rest and they think well collectivise a lot we need to be aware of who we are and yeah simply who the who the enemy is who the invaders are. And before that kicks off we need to be aware of that and once the rasa Nation starts, once the collectivization starts and the awareness of our identity begins, then I think there’s still a political solution.

And if well before things get really violent I think the environment is gonna become more hostile and with more hostility whilst we’re still a voting majority and bring in things like repatriation in a more hostile environment where they’ve got less benefits I think that’s the thing to be focusing on now, rather than some kind that pie-in-the-sky idea of a of an ethnic civil war, because nobody wants it really.

Horus: Seems you Chris that Kai Murros seems between two things at once. Is like spot prediction and part I don’t want to I’ll choose a better word, because what were the word that comes to my mind plus something illegal but, electrifying, you know, it’s part yeah and the election electrification at the same time which I think is how reality is, you know, in things can become true, because you expect them.

So he is so more that we believe that we will fight. And I think he’s employing, you know, it’s horrific violence for more than we believe that we are at least capable of that and destined for that if not something before that. Then we will eventually fully turn and face the enemy and we will demonstrate that, in fact, they were wrong to her to have tried to chase us down.

I like to imagine that we, you know, if nothing else we will at least manage that. And he betrays it as though it will be glorious, right? That we will eventually take back everything that it’s asked yeah it’s a crazy thing to imagine. But obviously I don’t want it to come through all that killing so I hope that actually we achieve something before.

That mom is well I don’t have any predictions but my expectation is that if we are to win it will be by, in fact, fracturing and breaking apart and taking down in pieces the current ruling class. Which I think can happen without violent Wars. Well there is violence already fought without a great explosion of violence. But as to what will happen I really have no idea is this oh it’s all kind of in our hands if anything.

Chris: I might my faith is in the White work why ethnic English people realize in they [110:00] are a class getting that class consciousness sort we’d saw it for the Marxist little bit yeah getting that consciousness together, collective eyes in and, you know, we’re only we’re only vulnerable, because we’re not, because we’re totally atomized.

We’re being attacked by collectives, by Islam by the government, by the polices and there’s such a huge number of us so much more than all of them if we were actually to collective eyes I think politics will change that will be downstream of that kind of cultural and social change. And that’s when it all starts, because no political party is going to sit there and try and do what they’re doing now if they see the ethnic English as a collective, because they’ll be thinking, you know, we have to have beat these people. At the moment they go.

Horus: I think no Morgoth says I’ve been last year that struck me was that if you look at things from the point of view of that rulers I’m wrong probably very mangling what he said. But if you look at things from the point of view of rulers they may already be terrified of us! They the things that they’re doing these awful outrageous things that they’re doing to constrain our freedom then much worse than destroy us, could actually be interpreted as acts of desperation already.

I don’t know whether this is right. But it may be the case, because they realize that they’ve done such bad things already that they’re already destined for the gallows! Which I’m not threatening anyone but I’m saying there are people angry enough that should their power break down, if it breaks down quite suddenly and so they don’t have it they don’t have a chance to fly out the country, you know, before they got before they got hold of by revolutionaries of some kind there’s this intense anger and hatred towards them! And so maybe Pollak.

Chris: No I think you’re absolutely right! I thought I totally agree with that! I think that all these draconian censorship measures these aren’t things I put in place worried about the future, these are a response to things they’re seeing they’re trying to tame the beast that’s looking to get out of this cage! Okay one of the things cause anyway.

Horus: I’d like to think that.

Chris: No I think most certainly I think that the more draconian the more fear that you can measure. Kai’s got these ideas where he says that come the revolution there there’ll be there be teams of teenage nationalists going into the universities and tearing the professor’s off of the stage and making a walk around the towns with little balls around their neck just explaining their treachery!

Horus: And that’s a lovely image, because they are some of the worst most malevolent people against a Fisher some remind us all in case, you know, it’s Entropy if we got any only got a few minutes left. They might be.

Simon: No no questions have no donations so not a very significant.

Chris: People were too engaged to dare tear themselves away from the screen.

Horus: All right that’s good yeah I retract my.

Simon: I’ve got I’ve just refreshed it yes I’ve just refreshed it I was gonna make an interesting point now. Okay as you can see I refresh Entropy. We’ve got 5 GB pounds from George who says thank you George. Dangerfield was right recent optics are horrendous if we follow this path we’re done pushing anything relating to the JQ, or World War Two is suicide to any, nor me look at how people reacted to the labor anti-semitism scandal.

So people are I’ll say you’re right there Chris. Okay this the next super chair is from Steve Ben Bob who says three sends three US dollars. Chris I still get three about three letters per year from Scientology even though I told them not to contact me some 20 years ago. Interesting points I don’t know.

Chris: I think it was, because I said when I look when I release that video about wild cut tires it was like I was swooped down on like I was leaving Scientology I think that’s what I mentioned that,

Simon: Yeah, and we probably got no got that much time for questions do Matias got there’s got the top question it’s not about adopting, or promoting National Socialism it’s how you will respond without lying and cooking nonsense when Emily Emily Maitlis says we fought a war against these evil ideas such as homogeneous policies. We yes some what’s it disingenuously uses it [115:01] uses the wish but she would.

This is one of the things I think that there’s difficult there’s a clip of Nick Griffin kind of denying his beliefs. I think he comes out worse and comes out as weak. I think it’s in the hard talk interview that he does perhaps he comes out as weak because, you know, this isn’t what he thinks we’re in a very difficult situation on this.

Chris: Yeah mark mark said that to me he said it’s important to be honest, because you’ll get called out otherwise and so that again complicates things.

Simon: Yeah. I the last what we were talking about previously I think yeah I mean, obviously people are increasingly dissatisfied with the powers that be and they’re introducing draconian laws. But we’re in an international situation. It’s not just Great Britain something very similar happened is happening in lots and lots and lots of different countries.

And I was gonna get onto this at the end of the stream but we’ve only got three minutes so it’s probably not worth it. But the example of what’s happening with coronavirus now. They’re succeeding in bringing the lock down. They’re succeeding in introducing elements of a police state relatively easily. What on earth can we do about it?

Horus: Keep working on this such a bland answer I guess but keep raping people yeah.

Simon: I mean, yeah I find it very difficult to believe yeah I don’t know I think we’re in a good situation.

Chris: Simon can you repeat that questions their apologies it went funny for me.

Simon: I was saying that in the perhaps it may be true that people the powers that be are introducing draconian measures, because they’re scared of us. But it’s there’s an international network of countries it’s much bigger than just Great Britain and very, very sadly what we’ve seen through the corona virus is how successfully this international operation works, because they’ve managed to introduce even more draconian measures in many, many countries and no, or hardly anybody is complaining. And is pathetic here people are clapping like seals at 8 o’clock every night yeah. In 30 seconds everybody’s going to come out on their butt on the balcony and clap like idiots. Sometimes I give up there’s this times when I get kind of very depressed by this.

Chris: Oh no no I mean, that I think the pandemic thing is excuse me something on this scale is relatively new I mean, if this fades out say August November try again next year. I think the novelty edge excuse me and people have had a bit more time to get bit more information but I am I couldn’t be more optimistic about things like, you know, I my channel didn’t start up as a nationalist channel. It kind of became sort of a sort of a classic liberal channel. Then it got a bit more red pilled and it slowly got to around today. But even about a year ago when I was talking about these things looking at the difference in the numbers, the amount of new channels popping up the amount of newbies coming over I just see something happening.

And I just see something growing. And again like I say I’m getting 30 odd emails a day and so many of them are saying things like two years ago I started tentatively looking at this stuff but now these are the conversations I’m having in the pubs with all my friends these what my fair family are talking about get-togethers. And this is coming all the time! I think this stuff is pretty like wildflower fire!

And I also think that 30, 40 years of multicultural propaganda, well that was all very well before the internet, but now the Internet’s changed that power. And also it’s got to the point now where the internal contradictions of multiculturalism are exploding in people’s daily lives and no amount of propaganda can do anything about that.

And people are looking for solutions people are looking for answers and people are scared and that’s when people get busy. I think the next five years are gonna be incredible! And in five years time you see where we are I think it’s going to be amazing!

Simon: Well on that note I think we should finish. As you can see that the people are clapping and hooting the horns here in Barcelona. So perhaps perhaps everybody apart for the bloody catalogs are gonna break free, because they cooked as fuck to be perfectly honest. Anyway Chris it’s been really great talking to you it’s but it’s been great getting to know you actually it was long overdue and thanks for a great show. Everybody to say [120:00] information,

Chris: You know, though give well I didn’t scream tonight, because my stream was a bit high-energy and I was worried I’d be too tired for this but now I’ve done this I’ll be doing a stream on my channel in about 20 minutes and thanks for having me on Simon and you Horus it’s been an absolute pleasure I feel like we talked about some relevant topics. And thanks for the chat I’ve been following that lots of very interesting stuff. So I’m glad I came.

Simon: Well thanks for coming. Horus only a final thought.

Horus: I just hear a plug to my friend history bro who was on Chris who did a video with Chris recently and I think they might do another one soon but they did an interesting chat about Angkor Wat which you can see on history post channel. And Chris I would just say to you I am very glad that you didn’t stop at the armored skeptic stage!

Chris: Me too!

Horus: But thanks for coming on.

Chris: Nice one thank you.

Simon: Thanks everyone! Good night. See you next week.

Horus: Cheers all.

[121:02]

END

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Simon Harris – EF 21 – Keeping A Political Project On Point with Dangerfield – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript – Ver 1

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Version 3: May 24, 2020 — Added See Also links.

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Version 1: Apr 29, 2020 — Published post. Transcript fully proofed =5/121 mins.

Horus – katana17

Horus – Discussing the ‘Russian Pogroms’ with Andrew Joyce – Jan 20, 2021 — Transcript

Horus

Discussing the ‘Russian Pogroms’

with Andrew Joyce

Jan 20, 2021

https://www.bitchute.com/video/NwijxJcZzOY2/

Bitchute Description

TRANSCRIPT

“With extreme caution.”

“Well, why did it happen?”

“This circumstance not only increased jewish influence and visibility, it also added to the concerns of those who feared that the province’s economy, especially in the cities, was coming increasingly under jewish control.”

“Let’s be honest about the real causes of friction here.”

“Look, it is clear that anti-semitism is simply a social friction. And we need to understand and be honest about the causes of this social friction.”

“That is the cause of everything! This is where it begins!”

“It has nothing to do with what jews are doing! It’s entirely self-generated!”

“One danger about not addressing this issue, …”

“One danger of not addressing this properly is that it leads to, …”

“Leads to a rise in a sort of White racial consciousness. And we know where that leads! We know the dark places that leads!”

“A racist chud! Who believes that Braveheart was a documentary.”

“You get what you fucking deserve!”

“The language has changed since Trump came to office, in terms of describing our politics. We used to be bigots, and racists, and just horrible, nasty people. But now we’re terrorists, …!”

“This is a German import! You’re acting on behalf of the Germans!”

“You’re acting on behalf of the Germans.”

“Ah! This anti-semitic stuff is British propaganda!”

“Would Hitler have come to power without the Russian pogroms?”

“You’re going too far! You are going too far there! You’re getting too brazen! If you carry on like that you’ll [chuckling] cause yourself problems.”

“Yeah it is possible to resolve all this peacefully, but we don’t see how yet, there’s no obvious way at the moment.”

END

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Laura Towler – Are We The Bad Guys? Featuring Mark Collett, The Ayatollah and Horus – Aug 24, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler

Are We the Bad Guys?

Mark Collett, the Ayatollah

and Horus

Aug 24, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uznm5-3xowE

TRANSCRIPT

“WARNING: NEW FASCIST GROUP IS TRYING TO REVIVE RACE SUPREMACY IN THE UK

Read our report on Patriotic Alternative, a fascist, anti-semitic, White nationalist organization trying to unite the British far-right.

READ IT NOW”

“It’s founder is Mark Collett, formerly Director of Publicity for the British National Party, one of the UK’s most notorious fascist figures.”

“What is Patriotic Alternative?”

“Well our nation is going to be destroyed by natural disasters, so we need to invade another country and take it over.”

“We want the land our ancestors lived on, we want it for us! And we want to survive! And we want to take our destiny into our own hands!”

“If we have to bear the burden of being villains, then so be it.”

“Call me whatever you want, I do not care!”

“Yeah, well Collett was right wasn’t he Russell? He was right, wasn’t he?”

“Well, this isn’t very good for us!”

“No!”

“Oh they’re making them more racist!”

“How did this happen? It seems as though it’s radicalized people! It seems as though it’s polarized opinion! And it seems as though it’s cultivating a greater sense of racial consciousness, and racial awareness among White people.”

“Well, I keep getting attacked for being White! I keep being brow beaten for it on the television, and on the internet, and in the media, and I keep seeing these riots and people pulling down statues and burning our flag.”

“What does ‘MSM’ mean? What does ‘mainstream media’ mean and what’s ‘virtue signaling’ Laura?”

“Oh but they’re going to unite the fascist Right, and we need to keep an eye on them, because they’re dangerous!”

“No. Let’s all agree not to report on this.”

“You need to hate this!”

“We’re not sorry! And we’re not gonna change our view, so keep it coming.”

“No you can’t say that!”

“Yeah and what? Yeah sharp nerd.”

“Liberalism is moral syphilis!”

“Playing fake clapping sounds over our speeches?”

“Hey! We stand up for the White people!”

“So what? We’re not backing down!”

“Oh! There’s a group called the Israel Advocacy Movement.”

“Well it wasn’t the based blacks, it was White antifa, and whatever.”

“Shall not speak ill of the non-Whites under any circumstances!”

“Well, what even is English? What even is British? What is White?”

“These people are the real racists, maybe we should report them to Hope Not Hate?”

“Well we’ve battled with the counter.”

“We battled with the Islamophobes and the EDL types, and whatever, for years!”

“Because we’ve got a bigger problem now! We’ve got racinated White people, collectivising as White people!”

“Those are the good old days, because those people they did our heads in, but they weren’t that bad! Now we’ve really got a problem, because look at it now, we’ve got this situation!”

“Gerard, if that’s not about race, what on earth are you referring to?”

“Do we want to, …?”

“Race is hard to pin down.”

“Sharpen up your arguments and I will move more in your direction.”

“Well we’ve asked everyone to go out and do this. We’re still quite a nebulous organization. We don’t have a head office. We don’t have branches in every city, and town, in the UK. And we’re not funding this centrally.”