Mark Collett: But we do have another speaker now. And this speaker is somebody who has really lit up the dissident Right! She is somebody who brings a real kind of positive energy to this movement. And she’s very different to the sort of person that people typically associate with the dissident Right.

 

She is somebody from a very liberal background, who had a very, very sudden conversion to our movement, when she became the victim of the “Black Lives Matter” movement! When people that she held dear told her in a very brutal and unkind way, exactly what “Black Lives Matter” really meant! It wasn’t about bringing people together. It wasn’t about equality. It was about making her feel guilty for merely existing!

 

And she is someone that didn’t crumble under that pressure she is someone who didn’t crumble under the pressure she has received from the press, and from her church, and from former friends who have condemned her. Instead she has stood strong! She has stood proud! And we are so happy to have somebody with that kind of strength, again, with us here today.

 

Please give a warm round of applause for Jody Kay!

 

[Applause].

 

Jody Kay: My speech isn’t political, because I’m the least political person I probably know. And I probably wouldn’t know what to say! When Mark said:

 

“You’ve had quite a liberal background.”

 

I was like:

 

“I don’t know what you mean?”

 

Never really heard the term “liberalism” even.

 

But before I want to do that, when Mark was introducing Sam, the most amazing thing about Sam’s introduction was not the glorious words of Sam, it was Sam and Laura’s response to Mark’s words. And I just want to give my love to Sam and Laura, because you are the epitome of loving relationships that our children should strive to. And I love them! [applause].

 

There’s a note here:

 

“Try not to cry!”

 

Okay! I meant that!

 

So I am here to tell my journey from an apolitical liberal to a woman standing at the fastest rising nationalist movement, I think the UK has ever seen, and one that got Keir Starmer slightly embarrassed. And got the Great Replacement trending. And got Israel’s Nation State Law out to millions of people!

 

Just a glimpse into my non-political world this is an absolute true story. In 2012 my dear friend Vaughn, said something about Karl Marx. I was like:

 

“I’ve read Karl Marx and I haven’t seen the film! Like oh no! It was Howard Marks, wasn’t it?”

 

And that was a true story! Howard Marks, the infamous infamous weed dealer! So that’s my political background there. I had mistaken Karl Marx for Howard Marks. And I’ve seen, … No I saw the film? No. So that’s where I am.

 

So my journey began, … My enemy wasn’t multiculturalism, or diversity. I didn’t grow up around that. I grew up in a very broken society. So my speech today is, as Mark referred to them as, “the enemy of the West”. Because my upbringing was broken. And it wasn’t broken due to diversity, or multiculturalism.

 

It was broken, because of those in power. And here’s a fun game! Here’s a fun game you can all try! I tried this the other day.

 

Google, or whatever you want duckduckgo, every single Prime Minister, just pick one randomly, and just check their connection with Israel. It’s a fun game! I tried it the other day. Someone I was with and I said:

 

“Okay, try this one!”

 

Fun game! So I do recommend you try that.

 

[05:00]

 

But when I read Mark’s book, and I heard of “the enemy of the West”, my pain at reading that book, could have been that Mark had written it about me. I was a victim of that system! I was a victim of that certain society. And I’m lucky and privileged to be here today. But I’m actually lucky to have got out of my, where I grew up, alive.

 

Because many of my, call them friends, associates, they didn’t! There were many suicides where I grew up. There were teenage mums, there were drug overdoses.

 

And this is the system that we’re living in. It’s broken!

 

And so to read Mark’s book, it was a real pain in my heart! Like Mark – I’m assuming Mark wrote that book as an observer of how life was – and I read it as someone that had lived that life. And so I am definitely lucky to be here alive.

 

But I also wanted to base this speech on courage. Which we need!

 

And I want to base this speech on conviction. Which we need!

 

And I want to base this speech on truth. Which we need!

 

And. I also want to base this speech on faith.

 

Because as someone mentioned earlier, I think it was Sam, this is an existential battle! This is beyond us, and this the enemy of the West has been our enemy for thousands and thousands of years. So this it really is an existential battle.

 

And my apologies to Scotland, if some things I say, you’ve already heard, because this is speech number two! For me! I had the privilege to speak in Scotland beginning of the month, I believe it was. And huge shout out to Scotland. Because the cohesion I saw in Scotland, the group. And I’ve always been in this mindset of, it’s quantity over quality. This is a numbers game! This is a numbers game!

 

And then I went to Scotland and saw the group, and it’s no accident, I don’t think, that 300 Spartans is a certain man’s avatar, because it’s Spartans up there! It’s Spartans up there! So, … [Applause].

 

But I do happen to be in the best region in England! [Applause] So it’s surreal I’m here, if I’m honest. It’s very surreal! And I was an apolitical liberal. That’s how I entered nationalism, somehow.

 

But also I am lucky to be here I had a very traumatic birth. So when I was born, I was what’s called “blue baby”. I wasn’t breathing. I wasn’t moving. I was blue. And I do believe that God kept me alive. And I believe that God kept me alive for a reason.

 

I discovered from a very young age that I had a gift of music. God blessed me with a gift of empathy. God bless me with a gift of compassion. To be able to listen to people. To be able to make people feel relaxed, and calm, and happy.

 

So my life really is in honour of God. And I choose to serve as God’s servant. Because I think when God gives you life, the least you could do is serve God.

 

And I’ve always wanted to help people. It’s been my innate nature, forever! I was told when I was in a play group, it was like I would spot those that didn’t have the good home life, and I’d run over to them and hold their hands and want to be their friends!

 

And that was just a nature I always had. And it was like I was magnetized towards them.

 

And my mum told me, again, the area I was brought up in, the very broken society. And there was one particular boy and he would swear! Even as a three, or four-year-old. And I said:

 

“Swearing’s not very nice!”

 

And he would swear whilst he was kind of playing out. But as soon as he came into my house, he knew swearing was wrong. And my mum reminded me of that. And it’s like:

 

“We don’t swear here!”

 

So he tried to be a better person in my company, as well.

 

[10:01]

 

But, as I said, I didn’t grow up amongst diversity. And when I did, they were my friends. They were my peers. But it was the enemy of the West! And, as I reading Mark’s book, it had me in tears at the pain that I’ve lived that life! And I’m lucky that I got out! There are so many that didn’t.

 

And, as I said, in Scotland, there are thousands of me still there! There are thousands of me still living this world of liberalism. And I didn’t know what liberalism meant. And when Mark said it, it was this strange reaction, like:

 

“I really have no idea what you mean!”

 

And now seeing it and knowing that I was part of that. And I’ve got out. It would be too much for me to say that PA has saved my life. But it certainly is steering me in a better path. I want to live my life better! I want to help other people live their life better. And I have just the utmost love and thanks for Mark and Laura and PA for welcoming me from this world of debauchery and filth, and, you know, free love, and everything that comes with that. And being in there, like everyone I wanted to rebel!

 

So I went out and got my nose pierced. And my uncle said to me:

 

“You’re so pretty! Why have you got your nose pierced?”

 

Fine! I’m gonna get my lip pierced as well! And it was like as soon as someone would say to me:

 

“Why have you done that then?”

 

I’d think:

 

“It’s my body. Do I like!”

 

So I had a face full of piercings and tattoos, … I didn’t do the dyed hair, thank goodness!

 

But I did go through the:

 

“I want to rebel!”

 

But rebelling was actually being led down this road, that seemed like rebellion. And as my dear friend said to me:

 

“I was sold a false sense of freedom.”

 

To be this:

 

“Be free!”

 

You know, it wasn’t! I was trapped in liberalism. I was trapped in this world of acceptance and tolerance! And these words that are thrown out so often. And I said this in Scotland as well. I would be holding the rainbow flag thinking:

 

“This is how we can make the world a better place. So I’m going to hold this flag. Because that’s the right thing to do.”

 

And there are many, many people still there with their flags and supporting this, genuinely believing this is how we make the world a better place.

 

But it’s a false sense of freedom! It’s a false sense of love! I feel the Western woman has been attacked more than anyone, because our very nature is to love! Our very nature is to nurture and want to care. But that has been guided over here:

 

“Give your care to these people! Give your love to these people.”

 

Well I stand here, childless! But Laura, I’m doing what I’m doing for your baby. I’m doing what I’m doing for everyone in here that has children! I’m doing what I’m doing for everyone in here that has grandchildren! Because this is the drive that it needs to happen! I was given a Bible by a very dear friend of mine. And I’m not going to say the full sentence. But it was given to me on day 14 of a month. So I’ll just say the numbers 14. That’s what we need to strive for. And although I stand here, childless, doesn’t make my drive, or my passion any less. In fact, it makes it more!

 

Because there are thousands of me still in that place. I was sold:

 

“Just think. You don’t have to worry about nappies. You don’t have to worry about sleepless nights. You don’t have to worry!”

 

I used to look at my friends and think:

 

“I’m off to the beach! You know, enjoy that screaming baby! I’m off!”

 

That’s what I was sold! That’s what I was sold. And there are thousands, like Wesley said:

 

“Time to take my pill! The killing the baby pill, for liberalism!”

 

I’ve been there! I’ve been there! So, as I said, Mark’s book, it could have been written about me. Try not to cry, she says! Try not to cry!

 

[15:00]

 

 

So, with the Western woman’s heart, feeling like I didn’t really fit in, in my area, because I was this shining light. And it was a very dark place where I lived. And I was wanted to be this lovely woman and smiling and making everyone feel better. But that was so difficult to do. So the weight of depression kicked in, alcohol kicked in from an early age, drugs kicked in from an early age.

 

So I fled England, my home, my people, that I didn’t really have much love for, much thought for. Headed to Ibiza to have a little bit of hedonistic time. But I found myself! And through my journey of yoga, extreme yoga, and through my journey of wanting to find truth, and through my journey of wanting to love and honour, came the day when my friend handed me a pen drive. And he said:

 

“I can’t believe I’m giving you this. Watch it!”

 

He used to be in the BNP. And my first reaction was, it repelled me! BNP bad! BNP bad! BNP scary! BNP bad! But I watched the debate of Mark and the Israel Advocacy Movement [audience laughs], and fell in love! Right, sign me up! The fact the way he held himself against that panel, and it opened my eyes!

 

So then I started watching PWR, started seeing some names in the chat. And the more, … I remember Mark once said on the stream long, long, ago:

 

“Those of you that living abroad, come home!”

 

And I had that in my head. I was like:

 

“I live here. Now this is my home.”

 

The Sun this time this time last year I was still in Ibiza. We got the Sun here. But I lived 10 minutes from the beach. And this:

 

“If you live abroad, come home.”

 

And that was ringing in my ears! I’m watching more PWR, watching more streams.

 

And I thought:

 

“Am I going to start streaming?”

 

Surely that’s absurd! I don’t know anything about politics. I thought Karl Marx was a weed dealer! I’m not, who can I talk about politics too? But I don’t have to talk about politics. I can talk about life. I can talk about my journey. I can talk about love. I can talk about what makes us who we are.

 

And so I started streaming. But I was given a very difficult ultimatum by someone I love dearly, dearly, dearly!:

 

“Please don’t do this. Please do not go public with that man. If you do I will have to cut you out my life!”

 

I already knew what my answer had to be! I could not keep my mouth shut! When and you’ve seen the truth, how can you not want to do something! How can you keep quiet about that? And I said:

 

“Well the sad thing is that, I don’t have a choice in this. I have to be a voice! I’ve always gone for those that needed help. I’ve gone for those that needed something that they lacked.”

 

And I realized, I’m the underdog! We’re the underdogs! How can I keep quiet about that? Why would I want to keep quiet about that? I don’t want to keep quiet about that. And despite the attempts to keep me quiet despite, despite the attempts to think:

 

“She’s a weak link. We’ll get rid of her first.”

 

I’m still here. And I’m not going anywhere. All I’m talking is the truth!

 

[Applause]

 

And we shouldn’t fear that:

 

“Truth is hate speech to those that hate the truth!”

 

[Applause].

 

So keep speaking the truth! It’s not hateful! It’s really not hateful. But I do want to touch on something that Mark said, that was my real journey that got me here.

 

[20:00]

 

So after watching PWR, I read one of Mark’s favourite books. It’s not Mrs Bear [chuckling]! So, I started reading a certain book and had my eyes opened even more. But it was the “Black Lives Matter” movement. It was George Floyd’s death that got me to where I am. Because one of Mark’s videos was talking about the truth behind the death, and how he was intoxicated with drugs, how this man was a criminal, how he had held a gun to a pregnant woman.

 

And yet he has been elevated to a Saint! And I knew I had to speak up. And my stomach was really going, churning, because I didn’t want to speak up. I didn’t want to be the one that said:

 

“Well actually, have you looked into this? Have you done your own research?”

 

But despite my stomach going I thought:

 

“God I don’t want to do this!”

 

But I had to do it. So I did. And I spoke up and I told the truth. I was ostracized, very, very quickly.

 

But one of my friends wanted to share his experience. As a person of mixed race wanted to talk about his hardship. And I said:

 

“Well, let’s talk about it. I’ll give my point of view, you can give your point of view.”

 

And so he offered me a chart of “Intersectionality”, that he had heard about from university.

 

And if you haven’t heard of “Intersectionality”, I’m sure there’s an (((early life))) section on the person that invented it. [chuckling] And in the chart of intersectionality is basically “White man bad. The enemy of the West, oppressed”. And there’s varying levels. And so he gave me this chart. And I said to him about what happens to England if immigration keeps in the pace that it is. And he said:

 

“Well, you’ll become the minority!”

 

And I said:

 

“Is that okay?”

 

He said:

 

“This is your karma! You deserve this! Is what you’ve done from generations and generations. This is your karma!”

 

And from someone that is so loving and caring, to be told that I’m the bad one, how have I not seen? And I remember physically shaking. I thought how have I been so blind? How could I listen to Mark, and believe that? How could I have listened to all these streams and not seen, it’s us? And I experienced “White guilt” for the first time in my life!

 

But it got me so much, I felt like a demon in White skin, that didn’t have the right to live anymore. And I even contemplated taking my life, because of my White guilt. All I want to do is make people feel good. And we’re the bad guys! And we’re the ones, you know, doing all these bad things! But it wasn’t my friend telling me this, because of my research, and because of what I had discovered through a certain book, and researching. And my dear friend Von.

 

It wasn’t his words coming out of his mouth, it was their words coming out through him! So I had this pill! This pill! All at once. And here I am! It was a very difficult journey.

 

So before too long, I returned to England. Here’s to England! And I came back. And in true Jody force, started groyping, and I got into LBC, which was my call.

 

Like it was, … I can’t even remember his name. But I spoke about the booing at Millwall. Gemma from Cambridge was my Alt character. And I spoke to a certain man about booing from Millwall. And then one Sunday evening, I got a phone call from LBC, saying:

 

“Gemma from Cambridge? Would you like, …”

 

“Oh, yes, yes.”

 

“Kier Starmer is coming on LBC tomorrow morning. We’d like you to speak to him.”

 

“What do I say?”

 

And they had given me a script. Well not a script. They said:

 

“You mentioned the booing at Millwall, so throw that one on him.”

 

[25:00]

 

But I think the reason that they got me back, … This is speculation, I can’t actually say. But when I spoke to the first presenter I did say that the knee on the neck, was actually brought to America from Israel. Because this is how the Palestinians are treated, with the knee on the neck.

 

[Applause]

 

And how this had made its way to America. And I said:

 

“It’s not actually an American technique. It’s from Israel.”

 

And I think, they wanted to speak to Gemma from Cambridge, so that they had their script to belittle that idea. Little did they know – and I thank Nativist for this. Because we were in a little group and I was like:

 

“What do I say!”

 

And I had all these:

 

“Say this! Say this!”

 

Oh, what do I say? So I chose one question. And with me being a very, I’m very competitive. And I just saw a Nativist say:

 

“Ask a liberal question, get a liberal answer.”

 

I was like:

 

“All right then! Here’s the Israel nation state law, Kier.”

 

And he didn’t know what to say. He didn’t know what to say. Other than:

 

“Well, Gemma. We all have that right.”

 

And if you didn’t catch what I said:

 

“The Israel nation state law has been passed that those in Israel, the jews, are the only people that have the right to self-determination in that land.”

 

And I said:

 

“As a White, British, English female, why don’t I have that right?”

 

And Keir Starmer said.:

 

“Well, you do!”

 

“Do I? I don’t think. So I’m not seeing it. I’m being told I’m the bad guy. I’m being told it’s my ancestors that did the wrong!”

 

Well, my grandad was in the war he was a very, very, … I didn’t get to meet him. I was six months when he passed. But the stories I’ve heard of him when he was in the war, he was injured through shrapnel. Shrapnel went into his spine. And they actually signed him off and said:

 

“You’ve been amazing! Thanks. Go home and heal. Thanks for your time. Thanks for your service.”

 

And as soon as he could walk, he said:

 

“Send me back!”

 

And they thought:

 

“But, we’ve just signed you off!”

 

He said:

“Send me back! This is for my country! This is my people there!”

 

And his blood flows through my veins. Courage!

 

I can only imagine what it must have been like in the trenches. I can only imagine what it must have been like, the noise, and not sleeping, and the wet feet, and the war! They haven’t trained for this. He was a worker! He was a he had his privilege of having to work, however many hours a day to raise his family! That was his privilege! But he went back.

 

And his blood is in my veins. And, as I whatever I’m able to do with my voice, with my singing, with my streams. I’m also writing a book!

 

So I’ll be the next best-selling author! [chuckling] I’m here to do what I can. And they will not silence me! Because I found something that I didn’t even know existed. And it’s you guys! It’s my country! It’s why we have the history we do. The architecture, the art, the people, the history, the beauty! We are so creative! We’re innovators! We’re powerful! We’re beautiful people! I’m sure all the women, … The staff in here like:

 

“Please don’t send me in there! I don’t want to go in there!”

 

What are they seeing? Nice soap, buy some slips, nice soap, nice tea, candles!

 

But look, we know we’re dressed smart. We’re being respectful to them. We’re not kicking them on the way in. Getting rid of us! No. Because that’s who we are. And that’s what we are.

 

I just got here:

 

“Mark was amazing!”

 

Don’t know why I’ve got that on my notes [laughter]. Why would I, why Mark, it’s not my writing [laughter]. Mark was amazing! And Mark is amazing! Because during my red pill, during my time, he just said to me one day:

 

“So are you okay?”

 

I said:

 

“I’m not actually. No. I’ve had this really difficult conversation with my friend.”

 

And he said:

 

“You want to talk about it?”

 

[30:00]

 

I was like:

 

“You’re a busy man! You’re a busy man!”

 

He said:

 

“Do you want to talk about it?”

 

I said:

 

“I think I need to talk to someone. Because I don’t know how I feel. I don’t know how to move beyond this.”

 

And he took the time out to email me, speak to me, phone me. He put me in touch with an amazing woman, who I still haven’t met yet. But I will. And he did that for someone he didn’t know. Someone was living thousands of miles away. But he helped me through one of the most difficult times.

 

My whole life that as I knew it, the roots had been lifted. And you put your glasses on from “They Live”, and you see, and it’s everywhere. And he was there! So maybe that was my writing, “Mark’s amazing”.

 

I’m just gonna come to my other notes. So as I say, there are thousands of me, still there! Are thousands of me with the timer on their phone. There are thousands of me thinking that having children is a trap! Having children is, it will ruin your life! Don’t do it!

 

Yes! Do it! So 14, 14, 14, 14, 14 times! Yeah! 14!

 

[Applause]

 

So we do have one enemy. And this enemy has been our enemy for as long as the books go back. They don’t like us very much! And they don’t hide the fact that they don’t like us very much. As I say, just go through a certain online streams and find out all those that have been in charge of our country, for the last, however many decades. I was shocked when I looked at that, and discovered that. Because I didn’t know. I thought maybe one, or two. But, enjoy the game! Keep searching! Because it’ll be hard to find one that hasn’t been connected with Israel, in one way shape, or form.

 

And this is an existential battle, as I’ve said. And I think that’s what keeps me smiling. I think that’s what, … Because I do, I call myself a Christian. I pray morning and night. I read my Bible, morning and night. And I’m learning so much that I didn’t know. And I just, … What I want to say, being doxed, being someone that doesn’t, I don’t want people thinking bad things about me, because I know what’s in my heart. And just the thought of one person! I mean, we’re all human.

 

But it’s like, oh! It doesn’t make sense! I know what I’m like! But to have hit the mainstream media, to have been made out as this “extreme hater”!:

 

“She spoke to Mark Collett, so she must be a really bad person!”

 

They made me look amazing! They’re which I think was the grace of God. You know, they try and attack and the attacks still keep coming. But we have to have courage! And I don’t know if you know, but in wartime, those that didn’t go to war, I do believe the women would offer them a white feather, as a sign of cowardice.

 

And I say, bring back the white feather!

 

[Applause]

 

It takes fear to find courage. I get scared! I am scared I’m here to stand in front of so many people and speak. It’s scary to have your name in the mainstream is scary! To have people writing about you in a very nasty way, it’s scary! The fact you could lose your job, that’s scary! But what’s more scary, is the thought of doing nothing and losing what our ancestors built, and what our future generations will continue. That’s more scary!

 

So I say, bring back the white feather of cowardice! And let’s start distributing that. Because we’re all, … I feel fearful. But then that’s when the courage comes! That’s when you get to stand in your courage, and your strength! Take the fear, alchemize it, be courageous have and win! We are going to win! Because that’s who we are, that’s what we do. History has shown us that’s what we do! We are victorious! We are triumphant! So don’t stop speaking the truth! Don’t stop looking for the truth!

 

And I just want to share something from my Bible. I stand here as a Christian. I have a wonderful cross around my neck. I know not everyone in here likes to hear the word God, or wants to think about God, or Christianity. So I’m not here to preach. But this passage, when I heard this, it did something to me, because I really feel this is where we are. So it’s from Ephesians Chapter 6 Verse 10. And it is called “Exhortations for Spiritual Warfare”.

 

“Finally, be strengthened in the Lord. And in the strength of his power. Clothe yourselves with the full armour of god, so that you will be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens. For this reason take up the full armour of god so that you may be able to stand your ground on the evil day, and having done everything to stand! Stand firm therefore by fastening the belt of truth around your waist. By putting on the breastplate of righteousness. By fitting your feet with the preparation that comes from the good news of peace. And in all this, by taking up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one, and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God!”

 

This is a battle beyond us. And we are not alone!

 

I’d like to thank you very much for your time. Thank you for having me.

 

[Applause]

 

[37:45]

 

[Outro music]

 

[38:27]

 

 

END

 

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See Also

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Mark Collett — It’s Okay To Be White — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Christmas Adverts – Multicultural Propaganda — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — What We Must Do To Win — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Assad Didn’t Do It – Faked Syrian Gas Attack — TRANSCRIPT

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Version 2:Nov 6, 2021 — Transcript now complete!

 

Version 1: Nov 4, 2021 — Published post. The first 9/37 mins of transcript complete.

Mark Collett: On Thursday the 23rd of September, myself and Laura Towler met with Dominic Kennedy in a conference room in a hotel in Leeds. Dominic Kennedy is an investigative reporter working for The Times, Britain’s paper of record. Dominic Kennedy and The Times had spent six months investigating myself and Patriotic Alternative, with a view to publishing an expose.

 

Before this article was published we were given an opportunity to answer a series of questions. And we did. We not only answered those questions, but we asked a number of questions of our own. And we also recorded the entire exchange. Many people listening will have read the article.

 

But now, you can hear the full uncut interview with Dominic Kennedy, and come to your own conclusions about the way in which we were portrayed in the article that The Times chose to publish.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I’m just [words unclear] Okay? Now what I’m going to do. I’m going to do it deliberately, so you can see it. Is, I’m going to switch on audio.

 

 

Mark Collett: Okay. So you’ll be recording this meeting?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes. And the real reason to record the meeting is well, I’m not going to record this, so …

 

Mark Collett: Is this audio, or visual and audio?

 

Dominic Kennedy: No, it’s not. So okay, this is my iPhone.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah, that’s fine. We consent on recording, do you consent on recording.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And just to be clear I wanted to make sure that you’re aware that there’s an audio recording on.

 

Mark Collett: Yes,

 

Dominic Kennedy: Because I am aware that you have been both bugged, and also had experience of audio being recorded without you necessarily realizing it’s happening.

 

Mark Collett: Okay.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I don’t want that to be a misunderstanding.

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I’m going to also put on a different backup audio device.

 

Mark Collett: Yep.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And this is really, because, actually I’ll take shorter notes. But really this is to.

 

Mark Collett: No, we completely understand.

 

Dominic Kennedy: This is just so that if we can’t remember what was said or don’t agree.

 

Mark Collett: No, no. I have also brought some notes of my own, and a copy of my book as well.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I’ve got your, …

 

Mark Collett: You’ve got my book!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah!

 

 

Mark Collett: Well that’s really interesting, because I maybe I could ask you a question?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: You sent Laura an email yesterday with a quote from my book.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: Now have you actually read my book in its entirety?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: So why did you choose to take one part of the book and misrepresent it in a defamatory manner?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, well, I’m putting a suggestion to both of you. I’m not publishing anything, certainly at this stage. And the point of that was to put the point to you, and give you the opportunity to come back, …

 

Mark Collett: No, but you’ve read the book.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And the book, … You must acknowledge that in this book – and I bought it with me. So you can see it in print.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And it’s available for free, so anyone can check it.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: In this book I make a big point, that firstly I don’t believe there will ever be a race war.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yep.

 

Mark Collett: I secondly make a point that those who claim there is going to be a race war are doing something and saying something that harms the nationalist cause.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And I take a dim view of that. And I’m just interested to know why you took a small section of this book, which is actually beneath a paragraph, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: Where I am saying that the people doing this are bad for the cause, shouldn’t be doing it, put the public off. And are actually spreading something that isn’t true. I don’t know why you do that Dominic. Because I think it, … It didn’t throw me. But I felt to cherry-pick something like that when you say you read the book. Now if you said you hadn’t read the book. And that was presented to you, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Then it might be misleading in some way and somebody could, … But for somebody who’d read the book – and I’ve seen the response Laura sent you – there are copy and paste paragraphs where I lay out in depth, that the whole idea of a race war is nonsensical and damaging to our cause, the nationalist cause. Not your cause, our cause.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mmm.

 

Mark Collett: And I also believe that the book clearly states that the only way forward is community action, and self-betterment. And community action and self-betterment is completely legal! That is a political aim! And I’m just a bit surprised. I didn’t know whether you had anything to say about that, why you chose to misleadingly pull that one bit out, and pretend I was saying something I wasn’t.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Is that like what you’re trying to do with this article?

 

Dominic Kennedy: No. It’s not. And also, I’m not sure I entirely accept your representation of that. Thank you for your robust email exchange which I appreciated. And I’ve taken the points that you’re making as well.

 

[05:03]

 

Now the, … If you go from that quotation, which is the quotation that I put, which is about what would be necessary if you were preparing for a race war, those appear to be some of the things that Patriotic Alternative is doing, with its fitness groups. Okay? Now, I think it’s reasonable to ask, is that what’s happening? Is that, …

 

Mark Collett: Can I answer that?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Absolutely not! Would it be reasonable to say that meeting in parks, we’re not meeting in secret gyms, we’re meeting outdoors in parks. We’re doing things like bleak [sp] tests, star jumps, general fitness. Would it be reasonable to say that health and fitness groups are part of legal, aboveboard, active communities, that care about the health and well-being of their members? Yes, they are.

 

Obviously physical and mental health is something that we are interested in. You know, because you’ve been investigating me for six months, I spend a lot of time at the gym. I used to be an avid mountain biker – I haven’t done it for a while. I’m an avid runner. I take part in assault courses and things like that.

 

 

None of that has anything to do with violence. It is to do with my personal fitness and well-being. And you are probably a few years older than me?

 

Dominic Kennedy: I am.

 

Mark Collett: So I’m 41 this year. And you will know yourself when you hit that age it is very easy to get out of shape. It’s very easy to lose your fitness. And I am very, very active in ensuring that I don’t lose my fitness. Because I think when people do, it often leads to a worse state of not only physical well-being, but mental well-being.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mmm.

 

Mark Collett: And team building between groups of people, … And this is very interesting as well, you focused on our fitness groups.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mmm.

 

Mark Collett: But that is again taking something very much out of context. We have baking competitions.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mmm.

 

Mark Collett: We have artistic events where people paint, produce music. We have gaming events. We have book clubs. We have all manner of different activities.

 

We go running together. These things when contextualized are part of a wider community approach that we have, that brings people together. Because we want people who are our supporters to come together, make friends, form a community. Because we are committed to community-based activity.

 

And one of the key points. And I’m sure you have been furnished with one of these. If you haven’t I can get Laura to send you one, or I will send you one, straight after this meeting. But you must have been furnished, and please tell me if you haven’t.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mmm.

 

Mark Collett: With one, or more copies of our code of conduct?

 

Dominic Kennedy: No.

 

Mark Collett: Okay we will furnish you that. Our code of conduct clearly states – and we will send you this from previous events. The codes of conduct differ slightly each time. And I will tell you why they differ. So there is no misunderstanding. If we hold outdoor events such as hikes, we have parts of our code of conduct which are about keeping your dog on a lead.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mmm.

 

Mark Collett: We also have parts about picking up litter and respecting the environment. If we have a code of conduct at, that is written specifically for an indoor conference, where members of staff will be serving tea and coffee, we have sections about being polite to the hotel staff, which is understandable.

 

But the core of our code of conduct is that anyone coming to our events, that either A) uses racial slurs, B) endorses, or calls for any form of violence, or C) endorses, or calls for any form of terrorism, is asked to leave! We do not tolerate that kind of behavior at our events.

 

And if somebody comes to me and says somebody has done that, we will look at the severity of the situation, and those people will be warned, or asked to leave. We have a code of conduct dealing with that. Because we are an absolutely peaceful organization that seeks political change through community building.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mmm.

 

Mark Collett: And if you look at our website, you will see that everything on there is about litter picks – that’s another thing we do. We’ve got a Harvest Festival coming up. We’ve gone out and fed the homeless. We do activities like that all over the country on a weekly, or monthly basis, depending on the location. Those things are clearly – I think you’ll agree – they’re not violent activities are they?

 

Dominic Kennedy: No, I agree.

 

[10:00]

 

Mark Collett: And if you take a fitness group and you put it in the context of everything else that’s happening, and you contextualize it correctly, as I am doing now, it is not sinister! It would be sinister, if it was attached to another group that was calling for things that we are not calling for. But it would be unfair and there are hours of recordings of me saying, that I do not believe in violence.

 

I do not, I totally dispute the idea of the being some kind of great conflict. That is in my book. And there is enough copies of that out there! I am committed to doing things in a peaceful manner. And that’s why I’m here talking to you today.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, thank you very much.

 

Laura Towler: In addition, if I might add something.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Laura Towler: I find it bizarre that there’s an accusation that people exercising must be, because of violence. I mean one of the reasons why I decided to get fit and healthy is, because my husband and I wanted a child.

 

So we began trying to conceive. And I wanted to be as physically fit and healthy as I could for my daughter. We also have a charity run [coughing], excuse me, coming up within the next month. Lots of people are training for the charity run. So we can raise some money for that.

 

They’re not training for something that we advocate against. That’s bizarre to me.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Now thank you and I am here to listen, and I’m listening to everything that you say, and taking note of what you’re saying. Okay? I’ll still put questions to you.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: So, because otherwise, …

 

Mark Collett: I think that’s the most important, that’s the most important thing I wanted to get over. That I feel that you have misrepresented me. You have put things in a way that paints my words in a defamatory manner. That’s not the way they’re intended and the proof is all there. That’s why I bought a copy of the book [chuckling]. And I am very eager to ensure, … That’s why I came today, that I am represented exactly as I wish to be intended.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: Because misrepresentation is something that can damage my reputation! It can damage the reputation of the group that I represent. And it can damage the reputation of people associated with that group.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: And I am very clear to make sure, I’m here to make sure that that doesn’t happen.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Good. Now what you said in the book is that a race war is highly unlikely. And even if there was, Western man would not fare favorably.

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Is that still your opinion?

 

Mark Collett: What, that a race war would be highly unlikely?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: The book was written in 2016

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Quite a lot has happened since 2016, especially in the United States to do with racial conflict and racial tensions, …

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Leading to violence.

 

Mark Collett: There will be, there may well be flare-ups in terms of violence between groups on smaller levels. But there will not be a race war! We have seen things like riots, and you have seen riots, you’ve seen anti-White racist attacks in America. We have seen anti-White racist attacks here in the UK.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: You have seen vicious anti-White racism in countries like South Africa, where rule has been transferred away from people of European descent to people who aren’t of European descent. We have seen land seizures, we have seen rapes, we have seen murders. And we are not saying there is going to be conflict on a gigantic scale.

 

But we are saying that we believe, due to the narrative that the establishment and the media pushes, that White people will increasingly become victims of these kind of attacks. And White people, as an ethnic group – so White Britons in this country, or White Anglo-Saxon Protestants in America – are the most atomized and isolated people. They are people who do not come together for their own ethnic interests.

 

Whereas almost every other group not only does that, but are encouraged by the establishment and the media to do that. And we simply want to advocate peacefully for our rights as every other racial group is encouraged to do!

 

So I’ll give you an example. When people march through London with “Black Lives Matter” banners, it is cheered on by the media. When there are Covid restrictions in place, which prevents large gatherings, and “Black Lives Matter” march through London these people are given a free pass, despite everyone else being told they can’t gather.

 

Yet when somebody goes on a hike and holds up a White Lives Matter banner, everyone is gasping! Well we are allowed to say that the lives of people from our ethnic group matter! That is surely not something that is objectionable.

 

And we are also allowed to advocate for the rights of our people when horrific crimes are perpetrated against our people, then ignored by the media, or by the establishment, or are played down in a way that minimizes the suffering of people who have suffered greatly.

 

Whereas if the races were reversed in those crimes, the suffering of the victim would be maximized and everyone would hear about it. We are really calling for nothing more than equal treatment for people of European descent.

 

[15:47]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And we’re doing so peacefully.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Now, you know, Al-Muhajiroun, don’t you?

 

Mark Collett: I have heard of them, yes. I’m aware of them as a group. I have never looked into them I haven’t got, yeah, extensive knowledge of them.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. I mean, they, … I think you might have staged a protest against them a very long time ago. Which was about the 9/11 attack, celebrating 9/11.

 

Mark Collett: I believe the protest you’re talking about was outside a mosque in London.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Probably the Finsbury Park Mosque.

 

Mark Collett: The Finsbury Park Mosque.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And if I remember correctly, because this was a long time ago! I think this was about the year 2000, or 2001. I don’t believe the leaflets were specifically about the group you’ve mentioned.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: To the best of my recollection. And this is a long time ago, so normally people aren’t meant to remember the wording of a leaflet that came out 20 years ago. Would you think that’s reasonable, that I would not necessarily remember what was on it?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: My recollection of that night is we went down there and we were protesting about what was being preached in that particular mosque. I cannot remember the name of the group on the leaflet.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Or even if a name of a group was on, said leaflets.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, okay. Now thank you. Al-Muhajiroun was a group. But when I first encountered them they had a Sheikh called Sheikh Bakri Muhammad based at the Finsbury Park Mosque.

 

 

And at that time they were kind of basically doing exercises like running around in fields, getting guys to be fit, getting young men to go and do all that kind of thing. Which didn’t, doesn’t look completely different from the fitness groups that you’ve got. And I remember saying at the time to people who were concerned about this:

 

“This is just Muslim Boy Scouts. There’s nothing to worry about here.”

 

That was very naive of me. Because over the next 20 years they became the main source of terror plots in Britain. And they’re responsible for the killers of Lee Rigby, the London bombings, and the aeroplane plot, as well.

 

Now I spoke to a security expert, who is familiar with Al-Muhajiroun. He’s just concerned that this type of activity, physical training, with a political purpose, …

 

Mark Collett: There isn’t a political purpose to the physical training. The physical training, as I said,

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yep.

 

Mark Collett: Is for people’s health and fitness. And it’s to build community bonds. And I think comparing us to a completely different group, run by completely different people, with completely different objectives, is very, very tenuous! I think this is a very, very tenuous point you’re making here!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: Now, I’d be very interested to hear what this security expert says. And I’d also be very interested to hear if the group that you are very misleadingly trying to connect us, or compare us to, also did all the other community activities we did, and were above board in the way we were, or where we are.

 

The fact of the matter is, I don’t think that, because one group holds fitness events, then becomes something unconscionable. You can say that every group that holds fitness events will also become what that terrible group became. That would be very unfair.

 

Laura Towler: Yeah, that’s a very strange argument. That’s like saying:

 

“This mass murderer was a vegetarian. You’re also a vegetarian. You’re going to do what he did.”

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Laura Towler: I mean, we only advocate for peaceful community building. We have a applications they’ve made with the Electoral Commission so that we can carry out our democratic right as a political party. That’s all we advocate for. And we like to stay fit and healthy.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Laura Towler: That’s it.

 

[20:02]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Are you saying that the fitness groups in Patriotic Alternative, are not political?

 

Mark Collett: Can you qualify that? Because, what do you mean by “not political”? Because this is very strange! Because obviously we are a group of people that come together with a shared interest in politics.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: People then make friends. And then they do things together as friends. They might play games, they might bake cakes, they might do community outreach things, they might keep fit.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: So obviously, the people do have things in common.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: But to say the fitness groups are political, I’m not even sure what that means. So leafleting would be something that was definitely political.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: A book review may be political, depending on the book you’re reviewing. A baking competition, even though it is being done by a political organization, is it truly political? Is doing star jumps in a field, political? I’m asking you that Dominic. Because I think it’s a very strange and leading question to ask.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: Which really doesn’t have any sensible, or qualifiable answer.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Okay. I’ll take your point. Now, what started us off was, looking at Patriotic Alternative was the Sarah Khan Report. Now, one of my colleagues reported on the Sarah Khan Report. And I know you take exception to it.

 

Mark Collett: No. We’ve issued a full response. Have you got a copy of that?

 

Mark Collett – Criticism of Demographic Change to Be Made Illegal – Mar 5, 2021 — Transcript

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, I’ve read that, yeah. And I believe that you didn’t get a response.

 

Mark Collett: We’ve not got any response! We’ve not got a meeting, …

 

Laura Towler: She’s retired, …

 

Mark Collett: Yep, she’s retired. But we didn’t even get a response from her. We were told it would be forwarded to the people who authored the report. They haven’t issued a response. We made it clear, numerous times in our response, what our aims and objectives were.

 

We pointed out that we were committed to peaceful change! And we also pointed out that taking away Avenues for peaceful change and political discourse, is actually very dangerous.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: And it almost also must be pointed out in the Sara Khan Report, that Sarah Khan said:

 

“We were operating within the law.”

 

And I find it. And I don’t know what you think about this, but when a government says:

 

“This group is operating within the law. So we want to change the law to make sure they’re operating outside of the law.”

 

Does that not sound somewhat tyrannical to you Dominic?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Well, I’m not going to express an opinion. But I can see that is your opinion.

 

Mark Collett: No. But what I’m saying is, if somebody isn’t breaking a law. And they are doing everything within the legal system, and legal parameters. And then the government don’t like what they’re saying, so choose to shift those parameters, is that not somewhat unfair?

 

And I know you’re going to say you can’t express an opinion. But that is what’s called, in any reasonable terminology, moving the goal posts.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. I mean, the whole point of this was that she said that the law was inadequate to deal with what she saw was a problem. So she wanted to change the law. And introduce a new law which appeared to kind of have you pretty much in the frame.

 

Mark Collett: But that’s what I’m saying. So she doesn’t like what we’re saying. She acknowledges what we’re saying is completely legal. She then states that, because she doesn’t like it, and because it’s legal, the government has changed the law, and make what we’re doing illegal!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: So what happens then Dominic, so we say:

 

“Right, we are going to alter what we say. And we are going to abide by the new laws.”

 

What happens then? Do they change the law again? Do you change the law every year to chase people who you disagree with? Because that isn’t a democracy! That isn’t freedom of speech! That’s a tyranny!

 

And then you are walking down the road of heading towards the Soviet Union! Heading towards a system whereby anybody that speaks outside the law, disappears, because they change the law to deal with that person.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Laura Towler: One of the examples that she gave in her report were part of, quote, unquote, “hateful extremism”, was us talking about the White British, the current trajectory that we’re on, being that we’ll be a minority within the United Kingdom by the year 2066.

 

So it was actually sharing the statistics, which are from the government’s own website, she said was an example of quote, unquote “hateful extremism”. So we’re in a situation now where she wants to, and her colleague, I think Mark Rowley?

 

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Laura Towler: Mark Rowley, want to make sharing facts from the Conservative Party’s own website, illegal!

 

[25:00]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. So what my editor said to me was, they’d be interested to know where you get your money from, and how you stay within the law. They were the two initial questions I was, …

 

Mark Collett: Okay. What else would you like me to say about staying within the law?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And I just said, then going on from that. Starting to look at you and Patriotic Alternative. There’s clearly, I would say you were probably, on your part of the political spectrum, the most chronicled person there’s been since Mosley. You’ve had three TV documentaries about yourself. So there’s been a lot of stuff, …

 

Mark Collett: Should I take that as a compliment?

 

Laura Towler: [words unclear] as a compliment [chuckling].

 

Dominic Kennedy: You can take it which way you like [chuckling]. But I was a bit overwhelmed by the amount of material there already is.

 

Mark Collett: There’s a huge amount of material about me. But going back to the legal things. Is there anything else you want to add to that section of the interview?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah this is a bit of an introduction, because we didn’t do the introduction because you wanted to raise a point about the email yesterday, which is fine. So this has been an interruption. So there’s a lot of other matters I have looked into. And I’ll raise points about those that are open to inquiry still.

 

Mark Collett: Okay.

 

Dominic Kennedy: But also some things have been closed down very much. So to go, … Are you able to get help with the money at all? Where the money comes from? How much money you have?

 

Mark Collett: Oh! I’m very open about this. Patriotic Alternative is registered with Companies House as a company that is limited by guarantee.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Limited by guarantee is the way that charities and non-profit organizations are set up. We do not exist for profit.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: We will have to give accounts to companies house of anyone who has made a donation to Patriotic Alternative that has gone through Patriotic Alternative’s bank account. We keep the accounts. They are fully up to date. We are very open about that.

 

Nobody, other than Laura, has taken a wage from Patriotic Alternative, which she did for just four months. And those wages were 500 pounds a month. Now I’m not going to ask you how much you earn a month.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: But I am guessing – you can you tell me if I’m right, or wrong – it’s significantly more than 500 pounds a month.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah. Everything that myself and Laura get, other than that, to support our costs of living are done very openly, via donations made during live streams. I have never taken away from Patriotic Alternatives. You can see exactly what I take in donations from live streams. And every month it amounts to a dollar value of when the processor takes their cut, and all the other things are done, I think it amounts to about 1,400 to 1,500 [US] dollars. Now, at a conversion rate that is not a huge amount of money.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: I think you can agree with that. And I am being very honest.

 

Now, neither of myself, nor Laura, are paid by the public purse. We are not people who are paid out of taxpayers money. I do not believe the Avenue of questioning you’re going down is particularly fair.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: Based on the fact that we are not paid for out of the public purse. And what we have done here – I hope you will agree – is that we have been extremely honest! I have come forth and I’ve given you figures. I’ve explained that donations that go to Patriotic Alternative will be made public through companies house, which they will have to be, because everyone has to submit accounts will be struck off.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And the way I take donations can be seen.

 

So, if somebody gives a $20 Superchat, of that $20 Superchat, I would get 85% of that. At which point that then has to be converted from dollar value into British pounds, which obviously reduces it. And then there is a small currency conversion fee. This does not leave me making the kind of money that detractors like to claim that I am making! And I am sure as you’ve been investigating me, for the past six months, you have watched some of my streams, yes?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Oh yes.

 

Mark Collett: And you will see that I am not, and you must have also seen other streamers, other well-known streamers who make serious amounts of money through YouTube, or their own proprietary platforms. We do not have our own platform like that. Patriotic Alternative has been denied money processing payment facilities. We have made that public.

 

So Patriotic Alternative, as a group, has not even been allowed to take payments for a number of months! Something that we made public some time ago.

 

And on top of that, because of my opinions, both myself and Laura, actually have been denied banking facilities with two major banks, despite the fact both of us have never, ever, committed fraud, or have been in arrears with any form of payments to the banks.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: Again, this is political repression.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

[30:54]

 

 

And so to clarify then, if you are doing a show and people are making donations during the live stream, which you kind of read out with the messages, and so on, at the end, is that to Patriotic Alternative the limited company, or is that for the presenter? Which is likely, …

 

Mark Collett: We always make clear at the beginning of the show what the money goes towards. Now with my show I will say at the beginning, those donations go towards either what I see as good causes, or towards my cost of living. Because I think we have to agree Dominic, I do have to eat!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Now, the fact is I will sometimes purchase leaflets and banners to help with events, out of that money, but the money, it states on the stream where it goes. And Laura states on of all of her donation platforms where the money goes. We are very, very honest about that. And we say:

 

“If you want to support us in that way you can.”

 

And at one point we used to say:

 

“If you want to support, send money directly to Patriotic Alternative.”

 

We will not take out of that. And other than when Laura was taken a wage for just a short number of months, they can do that. People can’t donate there anymore, because of the oppression that we face!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Why can’t, sorry why can’t they donate to Patriotic Alternative?

 

Mark Collett: Because we’ve been denied payment processing.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Right!

 

Laura Towler: We’ve been suspended from everywhere.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah! We’ve been denied payment processing through Stripe. And because of that, we cannot attain a payment processor in this country!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: We have not, … This is a situation we face. So there isn’t huge funding. And I can assure you the money, … How much money do you think we’ve got in our Patriotic Alternative bank account?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Well, not very much.

 

Mark Collett: Exactly! Exactly! Not very much! Because we can’t take payments.

 

Dominic Kennedy: But also, do people want to donate to that company, or do they want to donate to support you, …

 

Mark Collett: Wait a second. When you say “that company”

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah [words unclear].

 

Mark Collett: I want to qualify this too. Do you understand why we set up as a company limited by guarantee?

 

Dominic Kennedy: No.

 

Mark Collett: And I don’t want this to be mixed up in any way. And I don’t want you to misinform your readers if you do choose to write an article.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: The British National Party was constituted as what is known as an “unincorporated association”

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Do, you know how unincorporated associations work?

 

Dominic Kennedy: I’m not as a lawyer.

 

Mark Collett: Would you like me to explain it?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Please do.

 

Mark Collett: An “unincorporated association” is essentially a “loose affiliation of people”. And as a legal entity it doesn’t strictly exist. It is a gray area.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: That means that anybody who is a registered office holder, anybody who signs an agreement on behalf of that unincorporated association, or any member, thereof, can be liable for it’s debts.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Now in reality, to say that any member can be liable for it’s debts, technically that’s true. But there has never been a case whereby an unincorporated association has been sued. And all of its members have been brought before the court and asked to chip in to pay a debt. But, there have been cases – several of them with the British National Party – where people who signed agreements on the party’s behalf were taken to court.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: Nick Griffin was made bankrupt a second time, because he initiated numerous legal actions on the party’s behalf, but he signed the paperwork. He then refused to pay his legal fees. He was made bankrupt for a second time.

 

And a man called Adam Walker signed an agreement on the party’s behalf with me. The agreement was not met. And I successfully sued him in a court of law. And it was him who had to bear the burden of those costs. Just as Nick Griffin had to bear the burden of the legal costs, even though those people signed on behalf of the unincorporated association.

 

By setting up an organization as a company that’s either limited, or limited by guarantee, you protect your office holders, signatories, and ultimately anybody who is a registered member.

 

We do not have members. We do not charge a membership fee. But it is a legal protection for people.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And this is not something that is irregular. Nigel Farage constituted the Brexit Party in exactly the same way. And so do numerous other parties. And if you look behind organizations like the Conservative Party, or the Labour Party, they will have limited companies set up to deal with things like wages, etcetera.

 

So if there are legal fallouts, office holders themselves don’t put up their own property as collateral. So is that clear?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Thank you, yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And, by the way, we were advised on that by a practicing legal professional in this country. This isn’t something that we’ve just pulled up. This is legal precedent.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And, if I wrote a cheque now to Patriotic Alternative could, …

 

Mark Collett: We’d have to destroy that.

 

Laura Towler: We couldn’t, …

 

Mark Collett: We can’t cash cheques.

 

Dominic Kennedy: So, yeah? You have no, … Patriotic Alternative has no, …

 

Mark Collett: At the moment, the only people we could get to open account with, can’t deal with cheques.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: The only way we could take things is via payments via Stripe, by credit card processing. When that was denied to us that was the end of it.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Leaving us as you said, not very much in the bank account!

 

[36:56]

 

Dominic Kennedy: What happened before you were denied the Stripe?

 

Mark Collett: Well we took, we had a donation button on the website. However, and I want to make this absolutely clear Dominic.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: We have not once sent out a “begging letter”. Do you understand what a begging letter is?

 

Dominic Kennedy: I can well imagine.

 

Mark Collett: Are you frequented with groups like Britain First?

 

Dominic Kennedy: I think I know the point you’re making.

 

Mark Collett: Yes. They send out on average, three to four emails – sometimes more – per week, asking for funds. We have never sent out an email asking for funds. The only thing we have ever sent out emails for, is if there is an activity, or a particular event that people should be looking out for.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Okay. So you used to have a donation button on the website, …

 

Mark Collett: But we never sent out emails.

 

Dominic Kennedy: But someone could read the website and say I want to give, …

 

Mark Collett: 10, 20 pounds. Whatever they wanted!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Whatever they wanted.

 

Dominic Kennedy: To this group, …

 

Mark Collett: These were usually small sums.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And you could receive those?

 

Mark Collett: Yes. But we can no longer do that.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Where does it sort of go to?

 

Mark Collett: It goes into the bank account?

 

Dominic Kennedy: But, do you have a bank account, then?

 

Mark Collett: I’ve just said. We have an account.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: We are not able to process checks with that particular account.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: But we have a bank account. It goes into a bank account in the name of Patriotic Alternative.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: The money sits in there and it is used very sparingly. The biggest outgoing that we have ever paid is quite simply – and Laura can back this up – on web hosting. It is just maintaining the website. That is our one recurring thing per month.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And occasionally if something needs to be purchased, such as PO Box, or something like that. It goes towards that.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And did Laura’s salary come from that at one point?

 

Mark Collett: For four months.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Okay.

 

Mark Collett: And that salary was 500 pounds.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Five hundred pounds a month, yeah. So you have a bank account, but the bank cannot process checks, and you cannot receive money online, because you have no online facilities.

 

Mark Collett: Yes!

 

Laura Towler: You need a payment processor on the website to be able to take donations.

 

Mark Collett: Can I ask something? Where this is leading? So obviously you’ve got something. Have you been informed that we’re somehow taking vast sums of money, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: No.

 

Mark Collett: Or that there’s some, … Because we’re being more transparent with you now, I hope you can agree, than any other political party would be asked to be, with anybody. Even with their own members.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Well, you’re being transparent certainly. I can’t compare. But you’re being transparent, …

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: By answering questions. And thank you.

 

Mark Collett: Okay.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And, no the reason I’m returning to this, is simply that the first question was asked was, where does the money come from?

 

Mark Collett: To anybody who chooses to donate based on either coming to the website, seeing someone we like, going to the website, that’s where it came from. It doesn’t come from anywhere, anymore, because people who go and wish to make a donation cannot!

 

[40:00]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. So how did you lose the payment processing facility?

 

Mark Collett: People complained! People complained to Stripe. There was a campaign by our political opponents, by people who want to silence freedom of speech! And they had it taken away from us. There is nothing we can do to rectify that. So, unfortunately we are in the position we are in. And we run things on a shoestring.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Laura Towler: We lose everything! We lose YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, personal bank accounts, payment processes, anything that we use, we’re then harassed by the far Left, who gets us suspended from things.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. So you do have a small amount of money in the Patriotic Alternative.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: But you can’t increase that at the moment. Is that correct?

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: So you’re just stuck with what you’ve got?

 

Mark Collett: Yeah. Until we get another payment process, which we’re working on. But, because of what’s happened with Stripe, that makes it very difficult. Because, if you are rejected for whatever reason by the biggest, it gets increasingly harder to get anyone else to do it!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And bear in mind, as I said, both myself and Laura have clean criminal records. We’ve never been committed of any offense to do with fraud, or banking malpractice. Yet, we have to face this.

 

Dominic Kennedy: With the Amazon book, what money does that make? Is that making much money? Does that, …

 

Mark Collett: No! No [chuckling]! You don’t make much money off a self-published book [laughing]!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: I’m not [laughing], I’ve not written Harry Potter!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, yeah. And you do, and I just want to point this out Dominic, I also feel it’s a bit naughty asking that question, because you’ve been investigating me!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: You’ve been to my website the fall of westerman.com.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: What is the biggest point on that website, other than the book itself?

 

Dominic Kennedy: It’s free download.

 

Mark Collett: It’s free!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: So when you can get something for free, are many people are going to come and pay for it? Now, it’s had a lot of downloads. It’s had over 30,000 downloads. But I can tell you [chuckling] it has had nowhere near that number of sales I don’t know how many it is actually sold in total. But I can tell you it’s nowhere near that.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And how much does Amazon keep?

 

Mark Collett: The vast majority! The vast majority!

 

Dominic Kennedy: I went on Amazon to look for what they keep, and they seem to keep 85%. Would that sound about right?

 

Mark Collett: Umm, I would say, probably about right. I mean, I to be honest, it’s very small sums each month. It’s not something you could live off. I mean, if you totalled it up, throughout the year, and put it in a little pot, you might have enough for a holiday, or a treat, or something. But it’s not a vast sum of money!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Do, you know how many sales it’s had on Amazon?

 

Mark Collett: I don’t. If you’d have asked me to bring the sales data, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: But you’ve got to remember as well this book launched on the, I think it was the first of January, 2017. So it’s been in circulation for quite a while. So when I give you figures of downloads I’m not even sure how many times it has been downloaded.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: But it was over, the last time I checked it was over 30,000 downloads.

 

Dominic Kennedy: But, because it’s free, … I mean, that the point, … Is the purpose of the book propaganda, basically? That’s the point isn’t it?

 

Mark Collett: No! No! The purpose of the book, is that I wrote a book that I thought was an interesting analysis of the current situation we’re in. The book actually helps people to understand how they are being misled and undermined, by what I see as negative influences. And it educates people into how to make something better of their own lives. That is the point of the book.

 

It’s about a rebirth of individuals. And a lot of people have read this book, and have sent me very, very kind emails, saying:

 

“I read the book. I didn’t understand where I was going wrong. I had many negative lifestyle traits which I thought were fun, enjoyable. But they were leading me down a dark route. They were damaging me as a person. Thank you for writing the book. And thank you for making it free.”

 

But the book certainly wasn’t written as a propaganda. I mean, you’ve read!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: It’s not really propaganda is it? It’s not really, you must join a movement, or you must do this, or you must do that. I’m sure you must agree when you actually look at the chapter headings. I mean, the last chapter heading is all about how to make something better of your life. Surely you took that from it?

 

Dominic Kennedy: So would you basically say the purpose of the book was education?

 

Mark Collett: Education and self-improvement.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Thank you. Then, how have you stayed within the law? [Lol! Dominic, have you stopped beating your wife, yet? Yes, or no!].

 

[45:00]

 

Mark Collett: How have we stayed in the law? Well the law is very clear on things such as incitement. And we don’t incite anybody to do anything illegal. We don’t incite people to hate. We don’t speak hatefully about others.

 

You must be well aware that there are a number of people who attend Patriotic Alternative events and support us both, by attending events and support us with donations through our streams, who are not of European descent.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: You must be aware of those, because you’ve watched the streams. You must see the names coming up. There are people who support us and attend our events, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Who are, some of them are, actually of African descent. Some of them are mixed race, some of them are a number of Arabs, Indian, Japanese, all manner of people from all corners of the world have supported us on these streams. You must see that! You must see the names!

 

There’s a guy who regularly donates he calls himself “Glenn the Chinaman”. He has said he is of Taiwanese descent. He lives in Japan. He’s been honest about this on the streams. He supports us.

 

Now this isn’t, … Our group advocates for the interests of people of European descent. But we are very, very happy to work with people of different racial, or ethnic backgrounds. And people like that have never been excluded.

 

You must have seen pictures from some of our events, where there are women who are half Pakistani, there have been women there who are half Indian. We have had people there who are Egyptian. And there are pictures of me with them.

 

I have a guy who regularly writes to me, and he is of African descent, and he’s very concerned about mass immigration, about demographic change, in European countries. And he’s overwhelmingly supportive of us.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. But are there certain triggers that you’ve been told about and aware of, which might put you onto the wrong side of the law?

 

Mark Collett: We just act in a proper manner. So we know, for example, from my experience with the British National Party and their wrangle with the Equalities Commission, about excluding people based on protected characteristics, which is something that we have never done!

 

And again, this may shock you. But if you came to one of our one of our camps, one of our dinner meetings, one of our fitness meetings, you would see people there of different ethnic groups. We haven’t excluded anyone.

 

I’ll take it a step further. You have been watching my streams, you must be aware of the service I carry out whereby I help young people with professional CVs. Are you aware of that?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Not really, to be honest, no.

 

Mark Collett: Well I do. If there are young people who are attached in any way to our movement, they are struggling getting the job, I coach them. I do what’s called a professional CV for them. And I coach them with their interview techniques.

 

Now it might shock you. But I have done several CVs for people who are not of European descent, who have then gone on and got jobs, because of it.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yep.

 

Mark Collett: So again we do not discriminate against people. We say we stand up, as I said, earlier, peacefully and politically for our ethnic group. And if there are other people from other ethnic groups that say:

 

“Well that aligns with my thinking. And I want to come and get involved. I want to help. I want to attend events.”

 

We let them attend events.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Does Robin Tilbrook advise you on [word unclear]

 

Mark Collett: People know about my relationship with Robin Tilbrook, but he’s not a criminal solicitor. You must be aware he deals with civil law.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And obviously Dominic we are on the same page. I’m just wanting this to clarify this. You do understand the difference between, you obviously understand the difference between civil and criminal law?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: He’s not a criminal solicitor. But we do not do anything that is illegal.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And we are very open to being helped by anybody, and holding out the hand of friendship, to all those who are concerned about the well-being of European descent. Whether they are of European descent, or not.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. What happened leading to your arrest for threats to kill?

 

Mark Collett: Look! I want to be very clear about that. This was 11 years ago.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: People fell out in the British National Party. The matter was dealt with by the police. The police arrested me. That is true. They did not charge me. No evidence was presented to the police to corroborate the claim. The police released me without charge. As such, I never even went to court, let alone got a criminal record.

 

Now, whilst I was being investigated for the alleged threats to kill, … And I want to ask you this, because I want to be completely [word unclear]. Do, you know how a “threats to kill” case works?

 

[50:01]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Not specifically.

 

Mark Collett: Not specifically. Well “threats to kill” case is interesting, because it is somewhat of an anomaly within the British criminal justice system. And not only does the accused, not only does it have to be proved that the accused said what they are accused of saying, but also the accuser has to prove that they themselves were genuinely in fear of their lives. Is that clear?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Okay.

 

Mark Collett: Do you understand the implications of that?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: The implications are that if you were sat with a friend and you were enjoying yourselves one night and you kept winding him up, or saying something, and he made an off-the-cuff comment. And it was said in jest, you would not be able to prosecute him, because even though he said it, you were not taking it seriously and in fear of your life. So it makes a big difference between off the cuff comments. Now when somebody is being investigated for threats to kill, the accusers are not allowed in any way to make contact with the person they’ve accused. Do you know, why that is?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Well, that would be perversion of justice.

 

Mark Collett: No. It’s because it would show that they were not actually in fear of their lives. Because, if you thought somebody was hunting you.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: With the intention of killing you, would you be phoning them and having chats with them?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Good point.

 

Mark Collett: Both of the men that accused me, made contact with me numerous times. One of them made contact directly on multiple occasions by a telephone. And at the time I actually recorded those interactions for my own safety. The other one made contact numerous times through a third party, because he believed it didn’t count if you passed little notes to another person. It absolutely counts!

 

The police called me. They said the case was being completely dropped and dismissed. The officer who called me. I do not remember his name, it was a long time ago. Said:

 

“He felt that time had been wasted.”

 

And he felt the whole thing was just a nonsense.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yep.

 

Mark Collett: It was never taken any further. And there was never any credible evidence presented to them. And, as I say, I want to underline this. Both of my accusers have had contacted me, undermining the case. And since then one of my accusers has regularly contacted me! Regularly contacted me! And even come to me and repeatedly offered me paid work.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Now if somebody had seriously threatened to murder you Dominic and you’re in position to offer somebody paid work whatever that may be, would you have offered the person who had actually threatened to kill you paid work?

 

Mark Collett: Yeah, it’s unlikely, isn’t it.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Very unlikely!

 

Mark Collett: Well, is it a no, or a yes?

 

Dominic Kennedy: No I wouldn’t.

 

Mark Collett: No.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Was their a tape? Did you ever hear a tape?

 

Mark Collett: If somebody has cobbled together something that sounds like a tape of me allegedly saying things, as far as I’m concerned, I dismiss that. I have answered this question to the [chuckling] best of my ability.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And the fact of the matter is, it was dealt with by the police. And I think I have fully made clear, that not only did the police dismiss it. Not only do they think it was farcical. But both of my accusers broke all of the protocols when dealing with that case. And one has since repeatedly offered me paid work.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And so, I won’t ask you again. I won’t bother with this again, but did you ever, was that tape ever presented to you? Was it, do you ever, …

 

Mark Collett: As I said, I’ve never had, no evidence has been presented to me.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And I have said clearly, no evidence was presented to the police.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Now around that time there was obviously an extraordinary thing for one of the senior people in a political party to be arrested on suspicion of threatening to kill somebody else in the political party, in the run up to a general election campaign. That’s quite unusual.

 

Mark Collett: It is extraordinary, it is.

 

Dominic Kennedy: So there was obviously feuding and disputes going on within the BNP at that time.

 

Mark Collett: Indeed there was.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And one of the things that was being said was that you were taking a mark-up on the print works that you were ordering, for things like, …

 

Mark Collett: That is absolutely untrue!

 

Dominic Kennedy: But it was being said, was it?

 

[55:02]

 

Mark Collett: Nick Griffin, … This is something that needs quite a bit of explanation. Because there’s, … I think it’s very unfair you’re asking me about this, … Because again before I go and give you an answer, which I possibly shouldn’t even bother doing. Because firstly I have never been arrested. No information has ever been passed to the police. I have never been charged. And I have never been found guilty of anything!

 

And I certainly have never misappropriated any funds like that. However I was carrying out work on behalf of the British National Party. And when you print large quantities of leaflets, sometimes you put different groups of printing together to reduce overall costs.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: Do, you know how print runs work? You don’t? Okay. Let’s say you have one leaflet you’re printing one leaflet, 5,000 copies of said leaflet. If you go to what is known as a lithographic press. And you get one set of 5,000 leaflets printed, that will cost you quite a bit of money. And the reason it costs you quite a bit of money is to set up lifographic presses. There is a setup cost of what is known as plates. Are you aware of that?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Right.

 

Mark Collett: And the setting up of the press is the largest cost. The paper in the ink is the cheap bit. So what we used to do, is we used to say:

 

“If you are standing an election, and you want 5,000 leaflets, try to find three other people who also want five thousand leaflets.”

 

Because four leaflets can be printed on the press at the same time. Then you get what is known as economics of scale. You are familiar with that?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Economics of scale mean that that large setup cost is split between the four different people who are having their leaflets printed. Now sometimes you end up with three people who want five thousand leaflets and your fourth only wants four thousand.

 

Now if you were to print the three five thousands together, they would split the setup costs. Which let’s say the setup cost of 250 pounds. They’re split three ways. But then you would have to set up a completely different set of plates, films, and set up the press for the one set of four thousand. Or you can put the one set of four thousand in with the five thousand, so the press is completely full. But you then say to the people:

 

“You’re all getting your leaflets cheaper. But Mr Four Thousand has actually got 5,000 leaflets and has to pay the same amount as the five 5,000 guys.”

 

But that’s still significantly cheaper than if he’d had the press on his own.

 

Now this led to a misunderstanding with a couple of guys, who ended up with a thousand extra leaflets. Nick Griffin came to me and said these two guys have complained. He said:

 

“I want to look over all the accounts and how this was set up.”

 

I presented him fully with every single one of the print bills, the leaflets that were set up in groups of four.

 

And he stood up in front of a National Conference and stated, unequivocally, that he had seen all of the way that the printing was set up. That it was done in the most efficient way. And although a small number of people, because of the way print runs are set up, had received maybe a thousand extra leaflets. Those people had still made a substantial saving. Do you understand that is that all completely clear?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And after that, at a later date, he then said:

 

“Oh! Well actually none of that happened. And there was dodgy things about the printing.”

 

He never elaborated, he never laid out any facts. It was merely a smear campaign.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Now, I will also ask you this Dominic. I worked with Nick Griffin for 10 years.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: If in that time I had been up to something like that, which I absolutely was not! How come he only said it – and after he looked through all my accounts, all the printing setups, the way the printing was done. Why did he only mention something when we’d fallen out?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yep.

 

Mark Collett: Because that would implicate him somewhat.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: But he gave everything I did a full Bill of health. And not only, not only did he looks over that, the party had a Treasury Department. And the Treasury Department had to check everything as well. So they saw all copies of all printing bills. This was a complete fabrication on his behalf! That was fabricated based on a simple misunderstanding, because a couple of guys didn’t understand the economics of scale within the print industry.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And I can even send you documents that the party used to send out saying:

 

“Please group your leaflets into sets of four to make the maximum saving on your leaflet.”

 

So that even went out.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: With all information at each election time.

 

[60:36]

 

Dominic Kennedy: You said you’ve never misappropriated any funds. And this was a smear campaign.

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I have no reason to doubt.

 

Mark Collett: Okay.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Fine, thank you. Now what was your involvement with Western Spring and how it’s ideas and methods affected Patriotic Alternative?

 

Mark Collett: Western Spring used to hold camping events. I attended, was it two Western Spring camping events? And they didn’t hold any more. Western Spring camping events aren’t something that we have followed. We do not follow their methodology. They are a legal group. They, to my knowledge, unless, you know, something different, they have never broken the law, or ever been in any trouble with the law. We have a cordial relationship with those involved. But that is all.

 

They don’t have any involvement, or role, in Patriotic Alternative. And as you will know at Western Spring camps there was some martial arts, as well as hiking. We do not replicate that in any way. None of our, or our annual PA camp does not feature martial arts.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: It is simply hiking, food, and getting bitten by numerous insects!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Is there a particular reason why you don’t do martial arts?

 

Mark Collett: As a family camp, … Western Spring was more based around physical activity and youngsters, whereas when we hold camps they’re family events. So it wouldn’t have any fit with our community building.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And now can we try to nail National Action, please?

 

Mark Collett: Yes! I’m open to any questions on this!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Great! So, how close was your involvement with Alex Davis, Ben Raymond, and National Action?

 

Mark Collett: I have had no real interactions, other than maybe Facebook with Benjamin Raymond. There’s no love lost between us. I think the guy was a liability. I think the guy did many, many stupid things. And I think he’s put people at risk.

 

I have met Alex Davis, on one occasion. Alex Davis seems to be somebody who wanted to pull away from Ben Raymond. This was a long time ago when I met Alex Davis. I think it was in 20, … I think it would be 2016. So good five years ago.

 

Alex Davis is somebody who since National Action has, I don’t know anything about Ben Raymond, but I’m assured that since the fall of National Action, Alex Davis is somebody who’s tried to distance himself from it and get on with his life. And I know it’s negatively affected his health – the stress that it’s put him under.

 

But I have no and never have had a relationship with Ben Raymond.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: The closest I’ve ever been with him is years, and years ago, somebody might have commented on somebody’s Facebook wall and he might have, … And I might have added something, or made a comment, or a joke. And then he might have been in some thread. That is the most contact. I’ve had with him.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And what about National Action?

 

Mark Collett: I have never attended a National Action event. I have obviously met people who have in some way, or another, attended one of their events, or have been linked to them. But I have not attended a National Action event.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And I had a very dim view of them.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Now Wayne Bell. He was involved in National Action I believe.

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And you were pictured leafleting for Brexit with Wayne Bell in Leeds. And you’ve explained about your husband being pictured marching with Wayne Bell. And that you’ve been pretty strong, …

 

Laura Towler: Can I clarify? I don’t know who Wayne Bell is.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Okay.

 

Laura Towler: I’ve never met of this person.

 

Dominic Kennedy: That’s fine. This was on, … I think it’s Hope not Hate picture. But you’ve made the point that you’ve been pictured with Prince Charles, and you’re not member of the Royal Family.

 

Mark Collett: You’ve been pictured with Prince Charles!

 

Laura Towler: When I was in the Army Cadets.

 

[65:08]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. You were pictured [Mark chuckles]. And the Yorkshire fitness organizer, Jacob Buick, was Wayne Bell’s driver. Are you quite close to these people around, …

 

Mark Collett: Am I close to Wayne Bell? I can answer that straight away.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: I haven’t spoken, or had any contact with Wayne Bell, since 2016.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: I have not seen him, I have not contacted him. And he, … Well, I think I’ve actually made a video about this. About the dissolution of National Action, my thoughts about it, at the time. My thoughts about the damage they caused. Their immaturity. And also the fact that I think they did more, or less, everything the wrong way.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: Wayne Bell attended our Brexit stalls. That was to obviously leaflet and to promote the Vote Leave campaign. That was completely separate to anything to do with National Action. There were multiple people at those events. And I got people out doing things like the Vote Leave campaigns, because I said to people:

 

“Look, rather than sitting online, saying edgy things, rather than doing foolish things, you can actually make a change in society by going out and getting involved in what is effectively community based politics. Talking to the public and making a positive change. This is a better way to do things.”

 

I would have hoped after seeing the wonderful response we got on those stalls, that young people viewing that would have gone down a more positive route. It seems very clear that Wayne Bell didn’t go down that positive route. He chose to go down a negative route. Which has no doubt damaged him. Damaged his partner. And damaged their children.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Wayne Bell is an example of what happens when people take a very, very dark route. And I think he is paying for that now. But I have not seen him, spoke to him, or had any contact with him for a very long time.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And Jacob Buick, do you know, whether he was involved in National Action?

 

Mark Collett: I, … Jacob Buick?

 

Laura Towler: Jacob helps us with fitness events?

 

Mark Collett: I don’t know. I don’t speak to, I know, I don’t know who he is now, … He came to the demonstration?

 

Laura Towler: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Came to the demonstration on Saturday. I think I know who you’re talking about. I don’t know, of his involvement with that. But what I will say Dominic. And this has to be made very, very clear.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: National Action held some events which were exclusively National Action events. National Action also attended numerous large protests all over Yorkshire in the north, where there were multiple groups and other people turned up and may have been pictured next to banners, or individuals, involved. And there has to be a very clear demarcation between those two events.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Laura Towler: Yeah. Such as the event that Sam was photographed at.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Laura Towler: This was a public march against grooming gangs. National Action were. There were also the EDL, the last remnants of the BNP. And just concerned citizens who had no political affiliation. The event was circulated by various groups and various individuals. And some went and matched against grooming gangs.

 

He’s never even had a conversation with anyone in National Action. So with regards to Jacob, I don’t know if it was something similar to that.

 

Mark Collett: You’d have to ask him. I think, again Dominic that’s a little unfair to ask that question, because Jacob isn’t here to defend himself. And you have to be aware that when people come along to our events, I don’t speak to everybody in depth about their life history.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Okay. Kris Kearns has said that he was involved in National Action. Is that a matter of concern to you? Because he runs your fitness movement. And also this Fascist Fitness.

 

Mark Collett: The Fascist Fitness, he does not run that anymore.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Oh, right.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: He founded it didn’t he?

 

Mark Collett: Originally he set up the page. And we have spoken to Kris and said:

 

“That is not within our accepted boundaries of what we would want anyone, who was having anything to do with us, being involved in.”

 

He no longer does that. And he may, or may not have been involved with National Action, at some point. He doesn’t have any criminal record.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: He has never, to my knowledge, broken the law. He lives in Spain. He does not live in the UK. Obviously, young people sometimes do things that they are later not proud of.

 

I believe that unless somebody has broken the law, or done something, which is absolutely unconscionable, people generally deserve a second chance. And if people were misled into being involved with a group that then later on went sour. And they didn’t have anything to do with the souring themselves. They should not necessarily be counted out of any other group in society for the rest of their lives. There has to be reasonable boundaries.

 

[70:44]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Now obviously, somebody such as Wayne Bell, they would not be welcome.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, sure.

 

Mark Collett: And we do ensure that our people who are very active, are vetted in our organization. So we do try to ensure, to the best of our knowledge, that the people we have on board that are doing things are the Right people.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And the last one is Fenek Solere, whose writings used to be on National Action’s website. And he’s now blogging for Patriotic Alternative.

 

Mark Collett: I personally, I have interviewed him. And this is the first I’ve known about that this is the first I’ve known about that. So I can’t, again, I haven’t spoken to him. He’s not here to answer that. But I don’t know what he’s written.

 

Now I would say if an article is published on a website, I would be more interested in the content of the article and what it’s calling for as much as I would be and where it’s published.

 

So I don’t know if you’ve read the articles that you’re alleging were published on that website were written by him. But if they were, I would obviously be interested in reading them, if they say anything objectionable. I know that he has written a number of books. He has sent me copies of those books. But I have not read them.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Laura Towler: I spoke to, … The first time I heard about this was when you emailed us yesterday, as well. And I spoke to Fenek this morning and he said:

 

“That he’s never met National Action.”

 

And when they were active he wasn’t even in Britain.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Thank you. That’s really helpful.

 

Mark Collett: So did he, or did he not, have that article?

 

Laura Towler: He said they published some of his articles on the website. Not he wrote for them. So they took some of these articles and published them, …

 

Mark Collett: So that is very different! So to make that clear, Laura has spoken to the man in question.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: He claims he did not submit articles to them. But they republished articles he had wrote and published elsewhere.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Thank you. Now, some of [word unclear] that I’ve spoken to have been critical of the influence that you have on young people and children.

 

Mark Collett: I don’t have any influence on children!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Let’s say young people, and people who are still at school.

 

Mark Collett: We have a very clear rule on this Dominic. People over the age of 16.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Are allowed to join the army, am I correct?

 

Dominic Kennedy: They were, I don’t know if they still are.

 

Mark Collett: They are allowed to join the Labour Party, and the Conservative Party, and the Liberal Democrats. We only allow people over the age of 16 to attend our events, if they have parental consent.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: When people have come to our events, around that age, they either have to be brought by a parent, or they have to have parental consent.

 

But I must point out that 16 year olds are now legally able to vote in Scotland and Wales. And they are legally able to join all of the major Parliamentary parties in the UK. We are not acting outside of any accepted boundary in the way that we deal with people of that age group.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And when you say that they have to have parental consent, or be brought by their parents, is there an age limit that, …

 

Mark Collett: Anybody under the age of 16, … So if they’re under 16.

 

Mark Collett: Under 16 they have to be brought by a parent. And if a parent is concerned, … I have spoken to parents in the past if their parents are concerned. And I have said to those parents, clearly and completely transparently, that if a parent rings me and says:

 

“I don’t want my kid coming to your event.”

 

I would honour that. I’ve said that to them.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Some of these young people are getting arrested, and getting police records, …

 

Mark Collett: No, no! They’re not!

 

Dominic Kennedy: They’re not children?

 

Mark Collett: No they’re not!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Okay.

 

Mark Collett: That is misinformation.

 

[75:00]

 

Dominic Kennedy: But Barclay Walsh, …

 

Mark Collett: Whoa! Barclay Walsh has been arrested.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: He was arrested. He does not have a criminal record!

 

Dominic Kennedy: No! A police record. But it is important, because you’re going to have to, at some point in life you have to say, to get certain visas, and so on, that you have been arrested. You have to make that an admission.

 

Mark Collett: I don’t think you do! I don’t think you do. I’ve been into countries. I’ve been to America. And you have to state if you have been, if you have a criminal record. And it’s criminal records that carry a sentence of a certain length.

 

Now he was arrested, he was not charged, he was given all of his stuff back. And he was given a complete clean bill of health with that. That was a mistake!

 

Dominic Kennedy: But there are enhanced criminal record checks and police intelligence, and so on.

 

Mark Collett: Well, if that is the case, then that is the case. But he was wrongfully arrested.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, but he was arrested!

 

Mark Collett: He was arrested. You could be arrested walking out of here, in a case of mistaken identity. That happens.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, it does. But that another guy is this Zoomer, Wesley. He’s been arrested. Wesley Russell. Wesley Russell was nothing to do with Patriotic Alternative. And I believe that was something that actually was a tweet, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: It was tweet.

 

Mark Collett: Was that actually pre-dating Patriotic Alternative? It predated Patriotic Alternative.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Right.

 

Mark Collett: So that was nothing to do with us. The only person that has been arrested for anything to do with a Patriotic Alternative was Barkley Walsh. And he was released, given all his stuff back, and given a complete clean bill of health by the police.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yep. Can you see that an adult might not want to be caught with a leaflet which might be seen by the authorities, and obviously was seen by some people as being racially offensive, …

 

Mark Collett: Whoa, wait! I want to discuss that leaflet, because you’ve just said a very serious allegation there! That it was racially offensive.

 

Dominic Kennedy: No, I’m not going to say it’s racially offensive. I’m going to say it could be seen, …

 

Mark Collett: No! No. How could it be seen as racially offensive? It was a leaflet that quoted the Daily Mail on demographics! It did not mention race! It mentioned demographic change! There was no single race in that leaflet that was targeted in any way! It was talking about demographic change. It quoted a Daily Mail article, which was based on a learned paper. All of this is in the public field.

 

These leaflets are not, in any way hateful. They do not target any minority with any slurs, or any accusations! This was an informational piece. Somebody might wish to go out and say to people:

 

“I feel that White Britons becoming a minority in their ancestral homeland is a bad thing! Do you share my opinion.”

 

Now you might not share that. You might think White Britain’s becoming a minority is wonderful! I don’t know what you think. But if somebody shares that opinion, they are allowed to collectivise and campaign against that. There are many people in Britain, UKIP, ….

 

Well look! Let’s go even further to the Left than UKIP. The Conservative Party recently got elected via landslide on the basis that they were A) going to bring in a points-based, Australian-style, immigration system that was vastly going to reduce immigration.

 

Secondly they stated that immigrants coming here to do low-paid jobs would essentially be blocked. Now they lied about those things. They also claimed numerous times that they were going to deport both illegal immigrants and people who were here legally, but were not born here, who had committed serious criminal offences. Okay? Those issues are issues that people were bothered about in the country.

 

And the Conservatives campaigned about those. UKIP have campaigned about those. The Brexit Party have campaigned about those issues. There are a wealth of parties that campaign on those issues. And we put out a leaflet that was extremely tame, backed up all it’s sources, was factual, and was simply saying:

 

“If you are concerned about demographic change, join like-minded people who are also concerned about that.”

 

People voted Tory, people voted Brexit. And people have voted UKIP. People are voting for Farage’s other parties. All based around fears to do with immigration, or concerns about immigration.

 

We have simply spoken about that is not targetting anybody. That is talking about people who are concerned for one reason, or another, about White Britain’s becoming a minority. And that is a legitimate political concern.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. But, it is the case that he was arrested.

 

Mark Collett: Yes. And I’ve admitted that.

 

Dominic Kennedy: A very unpleasant experiences.

 

Mark Collett: It is a very unpleasant experience. But you shouldn’t be interviewing me about this! You should be interviewing the police! You should be saying:

 

“Why was a young lad arrested for putting out a leaflet that is completely legal, that carries information directly lifted from the Daily Mail?”

 

But you’re a journalist, right Dominic? Correct?

 

[80:18]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Correct.

 

Mark Collett: So let’s say you wrote an article about demographics. How would you feel if you were pulled out of your house, held in a police cell for presenting facts to the public, as a journalist.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, it’s very unpleasant, …

 

Mark Collett: Very worrying.

 

Dominic Kennedy: But if you, knowing, you that this is the environment in which you’re operating, that people around you being arrested all the time, unfortunately.

 

Mark Collett: If the environment we are operating in is draconian and tyrannical, then it is the environment that should change! People should be granted their freedoms! People who wish to exercise their freedoms shouldn’t curtail what they are doing to kowtow to a tyrannical system! That only gives the tyrannical system more power.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: We are legally allowed to talk about that. That was proved by the fact that he has not been charged.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: So why should we stop talking about things we are legally allowed to talk about, we’re concerned about, and are committed to dealing with, in a peaceful way, if the police are being heavy-handed? You must have seen videos of police brutality. So if the police brutalize somebody, should everyone stop exercising their rights, because the police are brutalizing people?

 

Dominic Kennedy: But would you say, …

 

Mark Collett: No, that’s a question. Should they?

 

Dominic Kennedy: No. But would you see, or say, that there was a difference between a schoolboy and getting involved in this activity, bearing in mind that there is this atmosphere out there. And there are these policies that people seem to be implementing against your group. That for a schoolboy to get involved in it is different from a 30 year old man getting involved in it, …

 

Mark Collett: I’ve already said, Barclay Walsh is over the age of 16. Would he be able to join the Tory party?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Would he be able to join the Labour Party?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Would he be able to join one of the multitude of political groups, like “Black Lives Matter”, Insulate Britain? He could join any of those.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: And some of those groups commit actual offences! Some of them attack the police! Some of them blockade motorways, and there would be no bar on him joining them.

 

We are committed to peaceful political activity. He was carrying out peaceful political activity.

 

The police were in the wrong! Just in the same way that they are in the wrong when they wrongfully arrest, or brutalize people for a variety of reasons. And the press regularly carries stories – you will be aware of this, because you work for the press – of the police overreaching, and doing terrible things to people.

 

Dominic Kennedy: All right. The point that you would make to people who say 16 year old school boys, and so on, school children, are in a different position to older adults. The point you would make is that at 16, you are allowed to be politically active. That’s allowed in this country.

 

Mark Collett: You are allowed to be politically active. And that is a norm across all the mainstream parties. And what’s more Dominic, I want to make this very clear! I want to ask you if you understand what I’m saying, at the end of this.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Okay.

 

Mark Collett: If young people between the ages of 16 and 18 are concerned about a political issue, is it better that they get involved with a group that are above board legal, community-based, and wanting to carry out legitimate political activity, or is it better that those people are alienated, and forced into the arms of a group that wants to do things in a less legitimate manner?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: So it’s better that they go down a political route?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. I see your point.

 

Mark Collett: So we are saying to people. If you want to do something legitimate, we will give you a legitimate, above board, political way to vent your frustrations, talk about the things that concern you.

 

We do not think that closing that avenue of legitimate political discourse, would do young people, or any other people for that matter, any good!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, okay I very much take your point. I’ve took the time of it, as well, because I wasn’t making a note.

 

Mark Collett: Do, you know how much longer this is going to go on for? Because I do need the toilet.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Oh, it’s at the end of the corridor.

 

Mark Collett: Okay.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Is that, …

 

Mark Collett: Yeah, it’s fine, yeah. How long after, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: About half an hour, ….

 

[85:02]

 

Mark Collett: If it’s half an hour, then I would definitely need, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: It’s at the end of the corridor.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah on the Left! How are you?

 

Laura Towler: Not bad. A bit of morning sickness has come back, in the third trimester, indigestion. But other than that things are good.

 

Dominic Kennedy: My first newspaper was the Pudsey Times.

 

Laura Towler: Pardon?

 

Dominic Kennedy: My first newspaper was the Pudsey Times.

 

Laura Towler: Ah, okay.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And is [word unclear] still going on.

 

Laura Towler: I’ve never heard of that.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Oh, really.

 

Laura Towler: I think it’s the Yorkshire Post, it’s a big one.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. No we used to have like a, I mean, there was a whole newspaper office with about three reporters, and advertising staff, a receptionist, just opposite the Magistrates Court. And it had been called the [word unclear] News. And it was about 100 years old. Well, a lot of local newspapers are closed down.

 

Laura Towler: Well maybe, because of the internet?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Definitely! Yeah, because it relied on them advertising [word unclear] income, basically. So once that’s detached from sales of newspapers, or free distribution newspapers, then it’s all gone. It’s a kind of an economic model.

 

Laura Towler: Well a lot of newspapers are struggling nowadays. People are [word unclear] traditional media.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, there’s a lot of competition.

 

Mark Collett: Sorry about that.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Thank you. To clarify. You said that they don’t do, you don’t do martial arts in the fitness clubs. Western Springs martial arts. You don’t do martial arts.

 

Mark Collett: No, we don’t do. I think some of our lads do in their own time, box.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: I used to box. But at our camps we don’t do martial arts.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: I’ve attended, obviously I’ve attended every single national camp we’ve done. And there’s been no martial arts at those camps.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And the you’ve mentioned that there may be flare-ups. There may be violent flare-ups over, from time to time, there’s not be a race war. But there may be violent [word unclear] from time to time.

 

Mark Collett: Well, we’ve seen violent flares groups like “Black Lives Matter”. And we’ve seen riots and things like that. That’s not some kind of incredible prediction. That’s based on, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: Observation.

 

Mark Collett: That’s an observation that no one could disagree with.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And are your fitness club members readying themselves, preparing yourselves, for self-defense?

 

Mark Collett: No! Of course not! Dominic, … Right have you seen those “Black Lives Matter” events?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Well, I’ve seen different sort of things, …

 

Mark Collett: How many people are at those events?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Some of them have got enormous sums.

 

Mark Collett: Enormous sums! And when you’ve seen those turn nasty in places like America, which they have, and they’re burning down stores, looting.

 

Do you think any person in their right mind, would even think they could ready themselves on a personal basis, for something like that? If you were faced with that, the only thing you could do is run! To suggest that young men are preparing themselves to single-handedly take on something like that, it’s just nonsense!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: So no, we’re not. And it wouldn’t even be possible.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Is Max Musson supporting you? He is able able to give like financial support?

 

Mark Collett: I have not, …

 

Dominic Kennedy: He’s always portrayed as a financier, …

 

Mark Collett: I have not spoken to Max Musson for quite a while. The last time I saw him was at an event in Leeds. It wasn’t a PA event. He has not spoken to me since then. At the event he announced that I had won a, I think it was an award for Speaker of the Year, that they give out. I’m sure that will be on his website. But I haven’t spoken to him since then. And I couldn’t even tell you the date of the event.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. That could be some years ago, could it?

 

Mark Collett: I couldn’t tell you.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Okay. Do you have any idea what age your followers are, on average, or generally, or, ….

 

[90:00]

 

Mark Collett: The average, I think at our last camp the youngest person there was one, wasn’t she?

 

Laura Towler: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: She was one. And the oldest person there was in his 80s.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: So it is a very wide range and, because they’re family events, you get that kind of wide range.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Fine. Some of the messaging that you use. You talk about White genocide.

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: There’s a clock ticking down on the website.

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Is there a possibility that some of the people who are listening to your messages may feel that they need to take violent action, because this is, … When there’s a genocide, what are you supposed to do? You’re supposed to stop it, aren’t you?

 

Mark Collett: Absolutely not! There is absolutely no way that people could misinterpret what we’re saying. On our website there is a clear 20 point Political Plan! There is a very timely reminder that White Britons are headed to becoming a minority! That is true! Demographics is one of our central points.

 

But every single thing on that website is geared towards community politics, leafleting, and other such community-based issues, …

 

Laura Towler: And self-improvement.

 

Mark Collett: And self-improvement. You could make that very disingenuous argument toward anything. You could say:

 

“Well, this website here which is a completely different website, run by people with completely different opinions and views to us, talks about climate change, talks about mass extinction of species, talks about melting of the polar like ice caps, talks about flooding, talks about starvation!”

 

Well this according to certain people is imminent! Well that sounds pretty bleak as well. Could that inspire violence? Would you say that would inspire violence, Dominic?

 

Dominic Kennedy: I’ll take your point.

 

Laura Towler: And the media are terrible for portraying immigrants and their descendants as victims and sufferers of certain things. That could encourage them to go out and do something terrible.

 

Mark Collett: And what about the Covid narrative? I mean, recently there have been many articles in newspapers, such as the Daily Mail. And I read one of these excerpts last night on my show, where people are saying:

 

“Can I even be friends with somebody who chooses not to take the vaccine?”

 

Could that cause attacks upon people? The press are saying that those who choose not to take the vaccine, are putting others at risk. Now that is a whole debate in itself. But if somebody making a choice over their bodies, putting other people at risk, does that incite violence against them? Would you say it does?

 

Dominic Kennedy: I take your point. Yeah. And, …

 

Mark Collett: I think what you have to do Dominic, … Let’s be completely fair and open here. You have to look at two things. First, is obviously what our core principles are. And secondly, how we aim to spread our message and what our core activities are.

 

And our core activities are community-based activism. And the way we spread our message is peaceful. Down to the fact we even have a stringent code of conduct – which I will email you as soon as I get home – about ensuring that, well deterring anybody, … We don’t want anyone at our events who would do things that we disagree with. And we are very clear about that.

 

So no. I don’t think our website in any way would lead to what you suggested.

 

And if you went down a route of saying that, I think we both agree that could then be applied to the press, the media, and any website that talked about certain future occurrences.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Why do you discourage young people to work with Prevent? Why do I discourage young people to work with Prevent?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Prevent turn up and say:

 

“We want to help you, because you’re getting involved in extremists.”

 

And so on.

 

Mark Collett: Because we’re not extremists. We’re not extremists! What we’re doing [chuckling], I’ve said this many times, we are above board, political activists. I would encourage anybody who has a strong feeling about politics, or social change, to get on board with an aboveboard, legal, group that is calling for political change and community-based activism.

 

If Prevent is going to peoples, or going to people’s houses, trying to discourage young people from getting on board with community-based activism, then they’re the problem!

 

[95:07]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And I will say this to any young person. And I have made numerous videos that you must have seen saying this. I tell all young people:

 

“You are now laying the foundations for the rest of your lives!”

 

I tell people:

 

“Study hard, go to university, get a good career, stay fit!”

 

I tell people:

 

“Don’t smoke! Don’t drink! Don’t take drugs! Don’t fill your face with junk food. Be healthy. Do good.”

 

And that will put you in a good position for the rest of your lives.

 

Laura Towler: Sorry, Prevent have been harassing our supporters, including, just to give you one example, an elderly lady who had a public Twitter profile, who got involved with our baking competition. She’s been contacted by Prevent to talk about her “extremism”, because she took part in a baking competition.

 

So I would say in this situation it’s actually Prevent that are the extremists. Not us.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Thank you. And are you a National Socialist? Because the book does, it appears to praise National Socialism.

 

Mark Collett: What it actually does, if you look at it, is it makes a big distinction between what I call “national”, … And again this is, I think you’re being a little bit disingenuous there, Dominic. You say you’ve read the book.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: But there was an entire chapter called, … And I want to get this exactly correct, “False Salvation, the Hollywood Nazi”

Dominic Kennedy: Yes!

 

Mark Collett: And it criticizes people who go down a, what I call the “Hollywood Nazi route”. It criticizes people who wear swastika patches, it criticizes people who idolize protagonists in films like romper stomper, or American History X. That’s all clear in the book, yes?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: What I did in the book was I compared National Socialism to skinhead, or Hollywood Nazi culture. I never said I was a National Socialist. I said National Socialism was disciplined. I said it was ordered. I said they dress smartly. And I said they marched in lines. Are those things correct? Did they? Were they disciplined and ordered, Dominic?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Umm.

 

Mark Collett: Would you say the Nuremberg rallies were disciplined and orderly?

 

Dominic Kennedy: I’m really not an expert on the Nuremberg rallies. So I’m not going to, …

 

Mark Collett: Look! You’re not going to say that. But you’re smiling. And I know that, you know what I’m saying is correct!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, I’m smiling, but what I’m saying, … Lots of other things happened around that time.

 

Mark Collett: No! No.

 

Dominic Kennedy: More than just walking down a line [chuckling].

 

Mark Collett: Wait a second Dominic. We’re not talking about the other things.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yep.

 

Mark Collett: In my book, I point out that those people who call themselves National Socialists, but cloak themselves in Hollywood Nazi style imagery, regalia, and lifestyles, are nothing like the people they claim to admire. They are not disciplined, they are not ordered. And they are almost a bizarre parody of what they claim to stand for.

 

That is what the book says. I never say that I’m a National Socialist. Throughout the book I say that I am a nationalist! And in the book, at the end, I say the following. There is a chapter, “True Salvation Nationalism”. Not National Socialism, nationalism!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. So you make the point very well in your book comparison. But are you saying you’re not a National Socialist?

 

Mark Collett: I’m not a National Socialist. I wasn’t around in 1930s Germany. National Socialism was a product of its time.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Okay. You’ve now been rejected four times as a political party.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: By the Electoral Commission. What are you going to do?

 

Mark Collett: We’re going to apply again!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Try again?

 

Mark Collett: We’re going to apply again with a completely different tactic.

 

Laura Towler: And we’re also going to ask them if we can perhaps have a conversation.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah. We’re going to ask if we can have a meeting with them. We can work with them. So we can work with this body, to ensure that we comply with their strict guidelines. We want to do that. And if needs be we will go down there and we will have a full and Frank conversation we will present evidence to them, as we have done with you today, and answer any questions they have.

 

Laura Towler: And it would also be helpful if they could just tell us in one go everything that they want us to change, rather than them feeding them one thing at a time, in order to delay the process, which is what they’re actually trying to do.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Laura Towler: Because the fourth time problem was relevant the first time as well. But they didn’t feel the need to mention it then.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And I have repeatedly emailed them and said, … They have said:

 

“You need to change this. You need to change the other.”

 

And every time I have changed those things, I have written back and say:

 

“I am more than happy to change that particular item. Is that all I need to change?”

 

And they refuse to answer that. So I believe they’re playing a game. They have a number of things they have stacked up against us, and they feed those objections to us piecemeal. Which is very unfair! It wastes our time, and it wastes our money. And we do not deserve to be treated like that.

 

Laura Towler: And it’s worth noting that they’ve also let other parties through with things that they’ve rejected us on.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Laura Towler: Such as text in the logo.

 

[100:37]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And that you say the rejection, the fourth time, was issues that they could have raised before? Is that true also the third time?

 

Mark Collett: Yes!

 

Laura Towler: I can’t remember the exact, …

 

Mark Collett: Yes! The third and fourth time was spurious, to say the least. And were not actually based on any ruling they made, but on a ruling they said may be made by the equality commission. So when I contacted a legal representative about that, I was told that was spurious at best.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, they could have said it the first time.

 

Mark Collett: Yes, of course!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Right.

 

Mark Collett: Nothing has changed.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I’m looking at your program for how you would, it’s not a manifesto, but what you would like to see happen. The way that I’m trying to interpret that, is if you were to come to power. And if you were to have your way, there would be a 95% super majority of White people who are European people, or something like that, in the UK. Is that basically correct?

 

Mark Collett: Yes! We’d aim for a super majority. We’ve said 95%. But if a little fairy landed on my shoulder today and said, you know, stick, or twist, you can have 90% and you win. I would take 90 percent.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And the only way that I think that is going to be achievable, bearing around your other principles that you put in, is to have a system of voluntary repatriation.

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: That’s correct? Which would be also with incentives to repatriate.

 

Mark Collett: Yes. It would be financial incentives to repatriate those who felt they could maybe live a better life elsewhere. It would not be something that was coercive. It would be something that would be obviously considered by individuals, or families. And can be very generous.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. And I can see that, for example, if you are the grandchild of some Jamaican immigrants, then I’m assuming that the suggestion would be:

 

“You might want to go and live in Jamaica.”

 

Mark Collett: Well, they might.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: If they were offered a generous resettlement scheme.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Where would jewish people go? Have you thought about that?

 

Mark Collett: Well, jewish people would go to Israel, if they wished to go to Israel. We aren’t, as I said, it’s a completely voluntary scheme! It’s a voluntary scheme, so where people went was up to them. I mean, you might have somebody who was of Pakistani descent. But they had family in Bangladesh, and chose to go to Bangladesh.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: It would be up to them.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Are jewish people not counted in that 95 percent?

 

Mark Collett: The jewish people are their own ethnic group. They actually categorize, … I’m going on their categorization, and not my own. They class themselves an ethnic group. They have an ethnostate in the Middle East with a nation state law.

 

And leading rabbis in Israel have called for DNA tests for citizenship. So they believe themselves to be a racial group.

 

As such, they would be dealt with just like anyone else, in a fair and reasonable manner. And if they wished to take a grant, to go to Israel, they could. And if they were productive members of society, they would be welcome to stay and carry on living here. And they would experience all the same freedoms that British citizens experienced. Because that’s what they would be.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Okay. Now I sent on the email yesterday questions about that show with, that Patriotic Talk episode.

 

Mark Collett: Oh, I want to answer that.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Oh, go on then.

 

Mark Collett: Chris Mitchell was obviously a supporter, activist, and at one time somebody who would have been seen as a leading part of Patriotic Alternative. We’re not denying that. That’s out in the open. He was Eastern Region Organizer.

 

However, Chris Mitchell has repeatedly, and I’m being very honest with you here Dominic, said things on shows that I find appalling! The Thomas Sewell show was absolutely terrible! Midway through that show – and Laura can attest to this – I rang you Laura, didn’t I?

 

[105:08]

 

Laura Towler: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: And we removed all reference to the Patriotic Talk show from our website. It was never again promoted by Patriotic Alternative. Chris Mitchell, at later dates, went on to say other things himself which were completely against what we believe in.

 

As such, I had a very difficult conversation with Chris Mitchell. He was sacked as Eastern Regional Organizer. He was told, in the end, that he must take a minimum break of three months, whereby he used to sort out his personal problems, and assess his behavior.

 

He was going through very difficult times. That’s why he wasn’t booted outright. He had a nasty breakup with his partner, who he harassed. He also had broken off their wedding. Their wedding had been broken off. And at the time, he was in somewhat of a state.

 

So we tried to deal with him as kindly as we could. Because we didn’t want him to do anything foolish. But he was told. And I have made a public statement, because we’re very open about these things. I’ve made a public statement to this end, that he was told he needed to take three months off. And his show would not be anything to do with us.

 

What Thomas Sewell said on that show was disgusting! I made two, at least two, public rebuttals of that the next day on public facing shows. I have completely disavowed what Thomas Sewell has said. And on that show, Kris Kearns was also present. Kris Kearns, at several points, said this man does not represent Patriotic Alternative, or myself. The only person who didn’t disavow what Thomas Sewell said was Chris Mitchell, who was the host of the show.

 

I am somewhat perplexed as to why Dlive still platforms Chris Mitchell. I lost my Dlive account despite the fact I have never once used a racial slur, or advocated for anything to do with violence, or terrorism.

 

Chris Mitchell has repeatedly had guests on his show, post him leaving and being told he’s not welcome within PA, who have said things which are equally unconscionable. Yet his channel still remains.

 

I want to make this absolutely clear! When I want you to understand this. And I want you, if there’s any unclarity on this, please tell me. He’s not welcome our events what was said on that show by Thomas Sewell – he was an Australian – and has never had anything to do with PA. And we would never have anything to do with him. He was completely beyond the pale!

 

He is now awaiting trial in Australia for activities, that again, we completely disavow! And as far as I am concerned, we drew a line under that. And we want to make it very clear, as I have done publicly on numerous shows, that this is exactly what we don’t stand for!

 

And that any host of a show that is connected to PA that allows a guest to get out of line, or to say things like that, will be stood down, as Chris Mitchell was.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Now I want to ask you is that completely clear?

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Is there anything else we could do to make that point clear. Or is there anything else we could have done at the time that you feel, we could have done?

 

Dominic Kennedy: I think you’ve made your point clearly.

 

Laura Towler: There is one more thing. Kris Kearns left the show.

 

Mark Collett: Chris Kearns left the show after that stream. So did the other co-host. A guy who went by the name of Nattie. And the show then went completely off the rails. And that is why it was never featured on our website again after that.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Now it was a very unfortunate thing. But I also must stress, Thomas Sewell lives in Australia. He was never part of PA. He was never connected to PA. And what he said was obviously no reflection on PA as an organization, because he did not speak for PA!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Is that also clear.

 

Dominic Kennedy: It is.

 

Mark Collett: And as a final point to this. As a final point to this. I am not sure where those recordings are. But I want to ask have you seen the recordings that were made after that where I publicly distanced myself from this? And I said it was complete, … You haven’t seen those? I don’t know where those are. But if I can dig them out, I would be happy to transfer those. So we want to draw a complete line under this.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Thank you. And somebody told me who has been your friend, that you don’t have a filter. And you said that, for example, you would say:

 

“My favorite book is Mein Kampf.”

 

Mark Collett: I didn’t say my favorite book was Mein Kampf.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Have you ever said that?

 

Mark Collett: I didn’t say my favorite book was Mein Kampf. What I said, and this can be seen, is people said:

 

“If you should read three books.”

 

And I suggested three very politically incorrect books. The reason I said that is because I don’t believe in working within the establishment’s narrative. And I don’t believe that people should be closed-minded in what they should read.

 

Ultimately, I suggest people should read things out of the bounds of establishment norms. I don’t apologize that. And sometimes I do try to be provocative.

 

[110:31]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. So what you were saying was not “my favorite book is Mein Kampf”.

 

Mark Collett: No.

 

Dominic Kennedy: You said was, if you read three books, here’s a book list you should read. And these are three very, to put it mildly, politically incorrect books.

 

Mark Collett: They’re politically incorrect book. But that was said, and people could see me laughing at the time. It was obviously said in a provocative, and slightly tongue-in-cheek manner. If you are to read three books, I’m probably not the best guy to ask what books you should read, because I’m not an avid reader myself.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Was this on a live stream, was it?

 

Mark Collett: Yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah, okay. And are you scared now? Because people around you, …

 

Mark Collett: Scared of what?

 

Dominic Kennedy: People around you are being arrested, and having their homes raided, and that’s includes obviously your family. Are you worried that this is going to happen to you?

 

Mark Collett: There is always that worry. There is always that worry. There’s always a concern that the State will act in a heavy-handed manner against anyone that criticizes the State. But that threat of heavy-handedness, is what the State use to silence dissident voices!

 

Laura Towler: We know that the State is hostile towards us. And that includes the government, the media, and the police. But every time they attack us it confirms for us that we need to fight for freedoms for our people, because it’s unacceptable! So really I think it strengthens our beliefs, doesn’t it?

 

Mark Collett: It strengthens your resolve. And one of the small points I would like to point out, about, … Because I noticed you were smiling when I said I sometimes like to be provocative.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: Leading Labour politicians – I think Tony benn was one – had busts of people like Stalin, Lenin, Chairman Mao, on their desks. Now those were men who did absolutely horrific things! They oversaw the murder of millions of people. Yet those individuals are never, ever, pulled up for their rather provocative, or sincere, I don’t know, I’ve never spoken to people like, … I’ve never spoken to Tony Benn, I’ve never spoken to Ken Livingston.

 

But people like that do cloak themselves in the flags of very extreme communist regimes. I mean, I’ve seen pictures of Jeremy Corbyn stood under Soviet flags.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: Well the Soviet Union murdered somewhere around 40 million people!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: And all I am saying is in a situation like that, people have to be held to the same standards. And what I think is happening here is if I make a provocative comment, I am held to a completely different standard to, let’s say, an elected politician like Tony Benn, or like Ken Livingston.

 

However really, in many ways that should be the other way around. That if we have elected politicians who do things like that, and they’re given a free pass by the media, or the State, that shows again some kind of collusion, or airbrushing of wrongdoing, by people who actually take a wage from the public purse.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. So there’s double standards you’re pointing out as well.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Well, can I show you a video? Now, this is from the, I think it’s Western Spring. And people certainly they think, …

 

Mark Collett: That’s me, yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Is it you?

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I just want to make sure it’s the Right one.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah. You don’t have to show me. I know the one you mean. It’s me!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. That’s you.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah, there’s me and, … I’m not actually in that shot. But I was there.

 

Dominic Kennedy: You were sitting down.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: But what, …

 

Mark Collett: But that wasn’t, what says there, on the screen, it said something about, that is a meeting.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I’m not adopting, …

 

Mark Collett: I thought that was a Western Spring meeting. I was there. It was the last Western Spring meeting I attended. I think it was. Yeah, it was the last Western Spring camp I attended. I might have spoken at one of their events after that, at a dining event. But that was a completely legal meeting.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah.

 

Mark Collett: As I said, that, I think that was in 20, it was 2017.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I think it was 2017.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: And Garron Helm is boxing with you, or sparring with you, or doing something with you.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Do you know, him at all?

 

[115:02]

 

Mark Collett: I know Garron Helm, yes.

 

Dominic Kennedy: What’s, …

 

Mark Collett: What’s my relationship with him? Not spoken to him for years. I met him on a couple of occasions. He was a young lad that got swept up in National Action. But I believe he was one of the few people who was actually arrested and found not guilty on all charges of actual involvement with them, in court. Is that correct?

 

Dominic Kennedy: He was, yeah, basically all right.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah. So he actually never did anything illegal. And post them being shut down, he had no involvement with them. And got on with his life.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. ITV News have explained this in a particular way as being National Action members still meeting, …

 

Mark Collett: No!

 

Dominic Kennedy: Things like that.

 

Mark Collett: No!

 

Dominic Kennedy: You tell me what was happening there. What is that a video of? What is it showing?

 

Mark Collett: It’s a Western Spring camp which was for young men, primarily, who wanted to get together, do some camping, do some hiking, do some fitness training. It wasn’t run by me. It was run by Western Spring. And that’s about the long and short of it.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Why were they doing, why were you all doing the gym stuff, the sort of self-defense, …

 

Mark Collett: You’d have to ask the organizers og the event. It’s generally a fitness, self-defense, and general a bit male bonding. Nothing more to it than that.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Fine. And this is going to be a bit personal. It might be a bit personal from me.

 

Mark Collett: Go on.

 

Dominic Kennedy: But I just find it, I just don’t understand why you have these opinions. Because you are a you are a gifted, well-educated, man of 40 years old. And you’ve grown up in a multi-racial society. And I don’t understand why you would think that people who are from different racial, or ethnic backgrounds, are different, or why it’s an issue. But briefly, … Yeah, what’s, …

 

Mark Collett: Well if you look at history, every single multicultural society has descended into strife on some level. And generally people who live around their own, who are part of homogeneous groups, who surround themselves by their own cultures and traditions, are happier!

 

And you must note in Britain today, when small numbers of immigrants initially came over. And they were probably quite isolated amongst the indigenous population, there was a pressure for them to fit in. There was a pressure for those people to get along.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yep.

 

Mark Collett: However, we have now experienced mass immigration on a scale that this country has never seen before! Every year more people come to this country than arrived here between 1066 and 1939.

 

So since the last time we were successfully invaded, till the outbreak of the Second World War, fewer people in total came to Britain, than arrive here every year under the Conservative government. That is wholly manufactured! It is wholly sponsored by the State, largely supported by the mainstream media.

 

And when those people do come here in such numbers, they are not isolated. They are not forced to get along with the indigenous people. But, in fact, they gather together, they import their culture to the exclusion of the indigenous culture. And they create their own little versions of wherever they came from. With the great difference being, free healthcare, free education, generous benefits. And all the financial incentives offered to them by the UK government.

 

Once they have created those, some people call them “ghettos”, I’ll be more polite and call them “enclaves”, once they have created those enclaves which are based around their beliefs, their religious buildings, their language, their practices, their shops, their clothing, their customs, there is often then a clash between the people living there and the indigenous people living on the edge of those enclaves.

 

And when those clashes occur you see things like anti-White racist attacks! You see things like the grooming scandal! And when White people come off second best, which they do. And by the media’s own admission there have been over a hundred thousand White British girls “groomed”, sexually abused, raped, trafficked, even murdered by people who are largely from immigrant descent, these crimes are covered up and nothing’s done about them!

 

And that is a great concern for me as a person! And you may be right Dominic. You may look at me and say:

 

“You’re intelligent, you are physically active, you could do anything with your life, why do this Mark?”

 

It’s because I care! Because I felt there was something wrong that wasn’t being addressed in the mainstream. And I wasn’t willing to sit on the sidelines and do nothing about it! I wanted to get involved. And I wanted to make a positive change. And that is something I strive to do.

 

And yes, I probably could have earned more money elsewhere. I probably could have lived a very different life. But that would have meant that I would have had something weighing on my conscience. And that something would have been inaction, that something would have been saying nothing about the injustices that we’ve just spoken about.

 

So yes I might have sacrificed a lot doing this. But it’s a sacrifice I’m happy to make. And that’s why I don’t live in fear of State abuse of power. Because I know that I’m doing the right thing! I think people who live in fear of going to jail, are people who know that they’re doing the wrong thing.

 

People who know that they’re doing the right thing, would shoulder those burdens, because they’d have a clear conscience, which I do.

 

[121:35]

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Is there anything else you’d like to say.

 

Mark Collett: No.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Anything I should know?

 

Mark Collett: No. No. I want to be honest with you though. I have made a recording of this.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yes.

 

Mark Collett: For my own safety. I will not be publishing this. But it is there for my safety.

 

Dominic Kennedy: I just said you’re right to do it.

 

Mark Collett: Yeah. So if you were to ever print anything that I have said, I want to be able to say to people this is a recording where this is how it played out. Because I want to be safe.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Mm.

 

Mark Collett: And I feel that you may feel I was slightly honest [? dishonest]. I didn’t tell you I was recording you from the start. But I will say this Dominic. That is for my safety. And although I wasn’t completely honest about that recording, I have been completely honest with you today. I hope you agree that I’ve answered all your questions. That I’ve been polite. That I’ve been open. That I’ve been honest. That I’ve been very, very forthcoming with full and lengthy explanations.

 

And if you feel that I have held anything back, or been disingenuous, I would like you to say now. Because I want us to walk away from this with a handshake and happy that you have everything you need to make an unbiased report.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. I really appreciate you giving your time, both of you and I appreciate the way that you’ve answered the questions. Thank you Mark. I’m also, I’m not surprised that you’ve made a recording. And I think that was completely reasonable to do, to ensure that the you’re satisfied that the reporting is fair and accurate.

 

But, and I’ve come to you with everything that I’ve got at the moment just about. There may be other matters that come to light. If I’m able to email you, is that okay?

 

Mark Collett: Yeah you can email me. You can follow anything up. And if you wish for another meeting, I’d be happy to meet you again. We’ve met in this neutral location, because it is both neutral and controlled. So you’ve got peace of mind. And I’ve got peace of mind. So that everything’s being done in an aboveboard manner.

 

And what I hope to achieve from this Dominic, is I’m not trying to recruit you, I’m not trying to win you over. I know you’re not going to be on my side of the political fence. But what I am trying to do is show you that we are not monsters! That we are above board. That we are open, honest.

 

And we are open to scrutiny from the press, or anyone else. We are willing to answer questions. And we will do so in the most open and reasonable manner. Because we don’t have anything to hide. We are very honest about what we believe. And we are very honest about the way we operate.

 

And we wish to continue to operate in this legal, and aboveboard manner. And we wish to continue to exercise our democratic rights and our freedoms.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Yeah. Okay.

 

Mark Collett: So, are you happy with all that?

 

Laura Towler: Yeah.

 

Dominic Kennedy: Thank you.

 

Mark Collett: I’ll do mine.

 

[124:53]

 

[End of interview]

 

Mark Collett: Thank you for taking the time to listen to the interview in full. If you enjoyed the video please consider giving it a like, or sharing it on social media.

 

You can also visit our website at www.patrioticalternative.org.uk. And you can download my book “The Fall of Western Man” for free, from www.thefallofwesternman.com.

 

[125:20]

END

 

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See Also

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Mark Collett — It’s Okay To Be White — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Christmas Adverts – Multicultural Propaganda — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — What We Must Do To Win — TRANSCRIPT

Mark Collett — Assad Didn’t Do It – Faked Syrian Gas Attack — TRANSCRIPT

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Version History

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Version 5: Oct 23, 2021 — Added link to Times article.

 

Version 4: Oct 19, 2021 — Completed transcript.

 

Version 3: Oct 18, 2021 — Completed 110/125 mins of transcript.

 

Version 2: Oct 17, 2021 — Added 6 images. Minor corrections to text. Completed 60/125 mins of transcript.

 

Version 1: Oct 16, 2021 — Published post. Completed 25/125 mins of transcript.

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Rikki Doolan’s Introduction of the Moderator and Laura Towler

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Rikki: Hello everybody. And welcome to this live broadcast! My name is Ricky Doolin. And this is the British Lives Matter live broadcast. The first ever live debate in the history of British Lives Matter! So it’s a great honor to be here. And a great honor to be here with you!

 

And, without further ado, I’m going to first introduce the moderator for today. And we’re live right now on YouTube. And we’re live right now on Periscope and Twitter. So, if you’re on them platforms just share the broadcast. Let’s get some more people engaged in this debate.

 

And this is an important debate. It’s a debate that many people have run away from. It’s a debate that people did not want to see happen. And it’s happening! They’re not doing this type of debate on the MSM, but they’re doing it right here, live and direct!

 

So I’m gonna first bring in the moderator for today. Of course, today the debate is between myself and Laura Towler of Patriotic Alternative. And we have a moderator. I’m going to bring in right now. And he’s going to make sure that everything flows well, and he’s got a structure that he’s going to explain to you how it’s going to work. And I want to introduce a YouTuber. His name is Simon Paul Evans! Welcome to the broadcast Simon!

 

Simon: How you doing mate?

 

Rikki: Very good. Thank you first of all for moderating tonight’s debate. We appreciate you’re coming in and, you know, spending your time, using your time to moderate this. And hope it’s going to be a really good debate. And can you tell the people let the people know the structure of how we are going to [word unclear] this.

 

Simon: The structure is basically a free talk between you and Laura. I’ll get involved in as little as possible. If basically you start shouting at each other, I’d [word unclear] stop you. If you’re being disingenuous, and you’d have to be particularly disingenuous, I’ll stop you, because it’s all about everybody here listening to what you two say, and how well you do. And I’ve never actually spoken to you before. I think it was last night you said:

“Hello.”

That was it for two minutes, right? And Laura said:

“Hi.”

To me before. But as for that, that’s about as much as I know about the pair of you. So this is why I’ve been asked in.

I know nothing about what you’re gonna be talking about tonight. And that’s better that way. You two have your own topic of conversation, what you particularly want to do. I’m there to make sure that you do it fairly. That is it! That is what I’m here for. And basically may the best person win.

 

Rikki: Thank you. So now, without further ado, let me introduce from Patriotic Alternative, Laura Towler!

 

Laura: Hey! Oh wow, I’m really close to the camera! [laughter] how’s it going?

 

Rikki: Very good. Well, thank you as well to you Laura for accepting this debate. There was a lot of debate going on Twitter and in the comments and a lot was said over the last kind of seven days. And I think it was the right thing to do to have this debate. So I’m really happy that you accepted. And, you know much respect to you, and I know many people didn’t want this to happen. I was even getting messages yesterday from people trying to dissuade this to happen. And, you know what can be bad about a healthy discussion over other ideology and all sorts? So thank you Laura for coming here.

 

Laura: No problem. Well, thank you for inviting me. Not many people are willing to talk to people with different views. And also thank you to you Simon, because I know you’ve been working really hard. And you’re really busy lately. Thank you.

Simon: No worries! [laughter]

Rikki: All right, so I think we’ll hand over to you Simon. Say whatever you want to say and how you want to get this thing started.

 

 

First Question — What’s Your Views on Immigration?

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Simon: Right. Well okay, I mean, everybody the first question people are going to say is, what’s your views on immigration? Now this goes to both of you. So what would do, as you’re the host, you can wait, because she’s a lady. You go first Laura!

Well, how do you feel about immigration? What would you do to change immigration? Would you stop it? Would you curtail it? How would you deal with it?

 

 

PA — Laura’s Opening Statement — on Nationalism

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Laura: Well, I’ve wrote an initial statement, if that’s okay? Which does cover immigration. It details what my concerns are. And then what I think the country would be like. Would it be okay to read my statement?

 

Simon: Yep.

 

Laura: Yeah? Okay. So I just wanted to introduce myself to the audience, and say that my name is Laura Towler. And I am the Deputy Leader of an organization called Patriotic Alternative. And I know that Rikki pitted this debate as being “inclusive patriotism versus exclusive patriotism”, which is something I’ve never heard before.

 

But basically I’m here today representing nationalism.

 

So nationalism is the belief that all groups of people have the right to their own home. So this is a home where their people can flourish, and then their culture can flourish as an extension of that. A home where their children can be away from harm and conflict. And a home where they can govern themselves and have self-determination.

 

So I believe that the British have a right to that, just as every other group has a right to that. This does not mean that Britain has to be 100% White, it simply means that we, the British, should be the majority in our own country.

 

 

So at the moment Britain is around 75% White British. So this is a figure which has dropped from 82% in 2011, and from 86% in 2001. So the share of British people in Britain continues to fall at a rate of around five to ten percent per decade.

 

And if we look at England, then the figures are actually much worse! British people are already a minority, so less than 50% of the population, in our capital city, London, in Leicester, Luton, Slough, Birmingham, etc., etc. Cities all over the country. And these are cities which are high in crime, and low in community cohesion and social trust.

 

 

PA — If Trends Continue the British People Will Be a Minority by 2060

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So basically if things continue as they are doing, with regards to immigration figures and fertility rates, then by the year 2060 British people will be a minority in the whole of the United Kingdom.

 

By 2037 British children will be a minority in English schools.

 

 

 

And by 2027 more than half of the babies which are born in England and Wales will be non-British. That’s only seven years away, until more than half of the babies born in England and Wales are non-British!

 

So anybody who tells you that this does not matter is ignoring reality, science, evolution, and nature!

 

If there’s one thing that the recent BLM riots taught us, it’s that many black people living in Britain relate more to a black man in America, than they do to the British people that they live among.

 

Studies show that every single group of people, apart from White people, have a strong ethnic identity and in-group preference. So blacks Chinese, Muslims, jews, etc., all encourage each other to collectivize, and they defend themselves, and progress themselves, as a group. They are allowed to be proud of who they are. Yet White people are told to act as individuals.

 

The idea that a Pakistani man could be Japanese, is rightly ludicrous, but we are told that anybody can be British. You just have to have a piece of paper issued by the government!

 

As our share of the population continues to drop, and as non-British people are lifted into positions of power through diversity quotas, and inclusion policies, things will continue to worsen for us. More, and more, of our people will continue to feel like a stranger in their own home. Crime will continue to rise, more statues will be torn down. There will be further demands for reparations, and for us to “take the knee”. Our history will be continued to be rewritten. The censorship of dissident voices will continue. And our children will continue to be overlooked at best, and indoctrinated, or abused, at worse!

 

If this is how bad things already are, when we are only 75% of the population, then what will things be like when we are 50% of the population, or less?

 

 

PA — “Inclusive Patriotism”, is a Naive and Infantile  — BRLM Have Wrapped Globalism in a Union Flag and Called It “Patriotism”

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Suggesting that all the different races and ethnic groups living in Britain will suddenly just forget who they are and will come together under liberalism, and “inclusive patriotism”, is a naive and infantile thought!

 

We all know decent individuals from different races, but we are not talking about individuals here. We are talking about millions of people. And we have to look at the trends, and the behavior, of the overall group.

 

Inclusive patriotism endorses the demographic replacement of my people, the British. Inclusive patriotism does not care about the British, because it attempts to dismantle our identity, our communities, and it puts our people at risk!

 

 

PA — Patriotic Alternative is Unapologetically on the Side of the British People

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Ten days after the BRLM Facebook page was launched on the 28th of June, Rickki’s organization posted this:

 

“At BRLM we stand firmly with Israel as they move to reclaim the land that is rightly theirs.”

 

Yet BRLM do not share the same enthusiasm for the British, and our right to claim our land. I believe that BRLM have wrapped globalism in a union flag and called it “patriotism”. If anybody can be British, then being British means absolutely nothing! And nothing is exactly what “inclusive patriotism” stands for!

 

Organizations like BRLM will pretend to care about you.

 

They will present an issue to you such as three criminals not being deported, and they will allow you to get angry about that issue. They will act as a pressure valve directing your concern and anger towards that one issue, while at the same time, telling you to ignore that you are being demographically replaced in your own home!

 

BRLM care more about selling T-shirts and not being called racist, than they do about the future of Britain.

 

 

PA — Patriotic Alternative is Unapologetically on the Side of the British People

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For those of you who want to address the serious issues that our nation faces, there is an alternative. An alternative that genuinely cares about the British and our right to self-determination in our own country. I am unapologetically on the side of the British people. And if you are too, then you are welcome to join us at Patriotic Alternative. Thank you.

 

Simon: Excellent! Right. Somebody’s echoing. So we’ve got to go to you and ask you how would you deal with immigration? And how do you feel about immigration? And then also give you the chance to answer what Laura’s just said there. Because that was quite a bit! [chuckling] So, over to you.

 

 

BRLM — Sees a Problem Only with Illegal Immigration

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Rikki: All right. Let me first address what you said which is immigration. So there’s no question and my position with BRLM that we have a problem! Everybody knows we have a problem with illegal immigration! They’re coming, 200,000 a year, according to the records. It’s more than likely more. And it’s something that is not good. And it’s not good, because it’s not controlled! So people are coming in as we see every single day on boats, arriving at Dover with no IDs. In fact, we saw videos today, throwing identification into the ocean! Right? So they’re coming in no ID, no background checks! And there is no way that we know what their intentions are, what their skill levels are, what their past education, criminal records are! So we — and I think Laura will agree — that we have a problem with illegal immigration!

 

Now! Where I have a problem with the stance of Laura and Patriotic Alternative, is they’re not just interested in illegal immigration! They’re interested in immigration as a total! And not just immigration as in new immigrants that are coming in. People that are in this country, that have immigrated maybe this generation, or second generation, or third generation!

 

 

BRLM — PA is Dangerous to the Fabric of Society in Britain!

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In fact, Patriotic Alternative want to knock on people’s doors and tell people to leave, simply because according to Patriotic Alternative they are not ethnically British! I mean, it’s a ludicrous idea! It’s a sensationalist idea! And it’s an idea that is dangerous to the fabric of society in Britain!

 

In fact, I would say that “Black Lives Matter” and the extremists on the “Black Lives Matter” side, such as the FF Fast, I mean, the FF Force, are just as dangerous as Patriotic Alternative! In fact, they’re two polar opposites of dangerous movements and groups in the country of Britain. And they both should be treated and viewed as dangerous organizations!

 

 

BRLM — We Have a Problem with Immigration But Not with Immigrants

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So yes, we have a problem with immigration, but definitely we don’t have a problem with immigrants!

 

Simon: So. Okay, so you view Patriotic Alternative as a “dangerous organization”? The what you are saying?

 

Rikki: Very, very, dangerous!

 

Simon: Right. Okay.

 

 

BRLM — PA is Dangerous Because They Believe in an “Ethnically White Britain”!

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Rikki: And the reason why they’re so dangerous, is because they believe in an “ethnically White Britain”! Now, they’re painting their picture very, very, clean, and very nice! But if you really look into their rhetoric, if you really look into their manifesto that they’ve put on their website, they believe in a White Britain! Because they talk about “indigenous” people!

 

 

BRLM — How Do PA Clarify Indigenous People? 

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So, what, how do they clarify indigenous people? They do it by skin color! So anybody who hasn’t got a skin color of White, or is not White British, is in danger to the manifesto and the policies that Patriotic Alternative are presenting! They’re in danger in one way, because they’ll be asked to leave!

 

Simon: Okay, right. Laura how do you answer that?

 

Laura: Well first of all, not all White people are British. So there are people who exist, such as the Polish, the Spanish, the Italians, the Swedish, etc. We want a Britain that is British! Not just to Britain that is White.

 

Rikki: How do you define “British?” [over-speaking]

 

 

BRLM — There Will Have to Be a Knock, or Letter, on the Door

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Laura: Can you please provide me with your thoughts? I’m not wanting to knock on people’s doors and ask every single non-White person to leave. Where did you get that from?

 

Rikki: How would you do it?

 

Laura: No, you’ve made that up! Rikki,

 

Rikki: No. I’ve not made it up!

 

Laura: Yes you have! You’ve made that up!

 

Simon: Hang on. Rikki is there a source?

 

Laura: Where did you get it from?

 

 

PA — We Are Talking About Voluntary Repatriation with Incentives

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Rikki: Your website says, right? That there will be a financial package that’s offered to anybody who’s not ethnically White British, or indigenous, or can prove a link to indigenous British people. So how are you going to do it? How are you going to do it? There will have to be a knock, or letter, on the door.

 

Laura: What part of that is knocking on people’s doors and saying that if you’re not White you have to leave? What we’re talking about here is voluntary repatriation. Why do you think you have the right to stop somebody from leaving the country, if they want to leave the country? If we’re offering generous financial incentives for people to leave, and somebody says:

 

“Do, you know what? I don’t like the way that you’ve changed Britain anymore, I’ll accept some money and I’ll leave!”

 

Why do you think you have the right to tell people who want to leave that they’re not allowed to leave?

 

Rikki: Who are you going to select to choose to offer to?

 

Laura: Anybody who’s not British, that wants to leave the country, if PA were in power, is allowed voluntary repatriation.

 

 

BRLM — How Do You Establish Who’s Not British?

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Rikki: How do you establish who’s not British?

 

Laura: What do you mean? So now you’re pretending that the British don’t exist?

 

Rikki: No, I’m asking you a very simple question, how do you establish who’s not British?

 

Laura: The British are a northwest European ethnic group. So it’s the English, the Scottish, the Welsh, etc.

 

Rikki: Okay. And what about myself? All right, my grandparents, grandparents came from the Republic of Ireland. Do I need to go back to Ireland?

 

Laura: Okay. So what ethnicity are your mom and your dad?

 

Rikki: They’re British!

 

Laura: Well, if they’re British then you wouldn’t be offered voluntary repatriation now. If you were non-British then you could take it, if you wanted to. But you wouldn’t have to.

 

Rikki: So what about two young British children, let’s say 16 year olds. Two 16 year olds, their parents have came here from Africa, they were born and raised here, they only know Britain, they don’t know anything about Africa, they don’t know anything about the language, are they allowed to stay here?

 

Laura: Anyone who wants to stay is allowed to stay. It’s voluntary repatriation!

 

Rikki: But will they be asked to leave?

 

Laura: No. If they wanted to take volunteer repatriation they could take the offer, but they would not be asked to leave.

 

Rikki: Okay. But would they be offered the voluntary repatriation?

 

 

PA — Every Non-British, Would Be Offered Voluntary Repatriation

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Laura: Every single person in the country who’s non-British, would be offered voluntary repatriation.

 

Rikki: What I’m trying to get to the bottom of, is how are you establishing a non-British? Are them two people, I’ve just talked about, the two kids that were born and raised here, with parents who came from Africa, are they British?

 

Laura: No! They’re African!

 

Rikki: How are they African?

 

Laura: What do you mean, “How are they African”? If I was born in China, would I be Chinese?

 

Rikki: Yeah, but I told you they’re born in Britain.

 

Laura: Yeah. But if I was, … So I’m saying if I was born in China, would I be Chinese?

 

Rikki: Well, what’s that got to do with these two kids, that are born here?

 

Laura: Because these Africans, who were born in Britain, and you’re saying that they’re British, because their mum gave birth to them here!

 

Rikki: Okay, so they’re African?

 

Laura: They’re African.

 

Rikki: They’ve never been to Africa. They don’t know anything about the language, the food, the culture. They only know Britain! They were born here, they were raised here, they went through school here, they only know Britain! But they’re, but you’re saying they’re African and they potentially should go back to Africa?

 

Laura: I’m saying that they’re African. And if they want to go back to Africa they can. I know people who are Pakistani who live in Britain, because I lived in Bradford for two years, they don’t call themselves British. They say:

 

“I’m a Pakistani! And I have a British passport.”

 

 

BRLM — What About Pakistanis Born in Britain?

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Rikki: What about Pakistanis that do call themselves British?

 

Laura: If you called them British, they’d be offended! Because they’re not British, they’re Pakistani.

 

Rikki: What about those that do call themselves British?

 

Laura: Well, it doesn’t matter, they’re not! They’re British citizens, they’ve got British passports, but they’re not British.

 

Rikki: Well they’re not British?

 

Laura: No. They’re not British.

 

Rikki: What if, … Okay, let’s put it this way. What if the parents came from Pakistan, they gave birth to children. Them children grew up. They had kids. Are their kids British?

 

Laura: You can’t “become” British! You’re either British, because your parents are British, or you’re not.

 

Rikki: Okay. But I’ve just explained how their parents are British.

 

Laura: Their parents aren’t British! Their parents are Pakistani.

 

Rikki: Ohh! So no matter how many generations of children they have, they can’t be British?

 

Laura: Yeah. That’s right.

 

Rikki: So that means that over 11 million people in this country are not British at all!

 

Laura: That is right.

 

Rikki: Even though they were born here, their parents were born here, their parents, parents were born here, they’re not British?

 

Laura: That is right.

 

 

BRLM — Not Only a Divisive Ideology, but It’s Absolutely Bat Crazy!

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Rikki: I think that’s a, it’s not only a divisive ideology! But it’s absolutely bat crazy!

 

Laura: Why is it bat crazy?

 

Rikki: How can you say that? Why would, how could you, …

 

Laura: I think you calling a Japanese, …

 

Rikki: [word unclear] like that.

 

Laura: I think you calling a Japanese person British is mental!

 

Rikki: It is divisive! Any of the BLM movements, of any of the identity politics that we see in the modern day, it’s a really dangerous rhetoric!

 

 

PA — What’s Dangerous is You Dismantling My Identity

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Laura: I think what’s dangerous is you dismantling my identity and saying that being British is just being born somewhere.

 

Rikki: You are dismantling 11 million people’s identity!

 

Laura: Or having a passport. You think that being British is just having a piece of paper from the government! It’s so much more than that. We’re a distinct group of people.

 

 

PA — If I Wear a Grass Skirt, and Dance Around in New Zealand Am I a Maori?

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If I was born in New Zealand. And I had a New Zealand passport, and I liked to wear a grass skirt, and dance around, and I was like:

 

“Oh, you know what? I’m just as Maori as you lot!”

 

That would be so offensive! Because they’re a distinct group of people, and I respect them as a distinct group of people.

 

And the British, my people, are a distinct group of people too. And that doesn’t mean that we can’t be respectful of other people. But it just means that they’re not British. Because if anyone can be British, then being British means absolutely nothing! If all it takes is a piece of paper from the government, then it’s a worthless identity, isn’t it?

 

Rikki: Yeah, I mean, you mentioned this piece of paper thing. And you keep mentioning New Zealand, Japan. So if you were born in, if you immigrated to New Zealand right now, and you had children in New Zealand, they’d be seen as New Zealanders! And I’m very sure, ..

 

Laura: My children would be British!

 

Rikki: They would identify as New Zealanders.

 

Laura: No children would be British!

 

Rikki: And their children would identify as New Zealanders, they wouldn’t try and identify as Maori. So you’re twisting things up there, to try and fit your narrative.

 

Laura: I’ll tell what Rikki, can you explain to me what it means to be British? Is it just if you’re born here?

 

 

BRLM — You Are British If You Live in and Respect This Country

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Rikki: What it means to be British is, if you’re born here. But not only if you’re born here, if you live here, if you respect this country, if you’ve moved to this country, if you’ve committed this country, …

 

Laura: Okay. So, …

 

Rikki: And you’ve been given British citizenship, you have every single right, just as much as you!

 

Laura: Right!

 

Rikki: To claim to be British!

 

Laura: So Salman Abedi, who murdered 22 people in the Manchester Arena bombing, he was born in Manchester and he lived here all his life. Is he British?

 

Rikki: He was British!

 

Laura: Right. So I just want your audience to confirm the fact that you think, … Your idea of patriotism, ..

 

Rikki: I don’t think, ..

 

Laura: Includes terrorists, ..

 

Rikki: No! No! We’re talking about nationality!

 

Simon: Hang on! Hang on there. No, no. The fact that he was a terrorist, the fact that he was born over here, right? He wasn’t a terrorist when he was born. Anybody can turn into a complete wankery turd, right? However I don’t agree, that wasn’t a fair thing what you just said Laura, there. I’m just saying.

 

Laura: I’m just making a point that according to Rikki’s definition of what it means to be British, this includes people who hate us! This includes people who aren’t even British, who hate everything about our country and want to attack us!

 

Rikki: So Britishness is defined whether somebody hates or not?

 

Simon: Hang on! Here’s a question. Can you renounce your Britishness? Is there people here, that were born and bred here, that their family have been here for three generations, that now believe now, that they’re not British, and that they’re from, …

Say for instance their family is from Pakistan. Do they now believe, even though their mum was born here, and they were born here, that they’re now Pakistani, and they hate Britain? Because personally, I believe that’s the case. But I mean, I’ll put it to you sir. How do you feel about that? Do you believe that’s the case?

 

 

BRLM — Even Terrorists, If Born Here, Are Still British

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Rikki: Well first of all, I mean, Laura went for the extreme example. And let’s just first of all address that, right?

 

No matter how much that Manchester bomber hated this country, no matter how much Salman Abedi hated this country, they were born and raised here, they were British citizens. They are British! Unless they say otherwise! What they’re doing, their acts are against Britain! Against the British people! It is against the thread of this nation! It’s an evil against this country! In fact, they’re enemies to this country. But you can’t take away the fact that they were born here! It’s simple as that!

 

 

BLRM — Laura Envisions a 95% White British Population!

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Now, what Laura is trying to do, is trying to say that it’s only indigenous British people that have the rights that she’s talking about here. And she talks about a majority, where if you watch Laura’s speech that she did at the Patriotic Alternative annual get together. She actually says, she envisions a 95% White British population! That means millions of people need to leave this country!

 

Now the question is, after you’ve offered your incentives, and every single one of them says “no!”, what are you going to do?

 

Laura: Well, when you’re a movement, or a political party, you put forward a strategy that you think is going to work. So the strategy that we’ve put, and I’m assuming you’ve done your research and read our 25 point plan, ..

 

Rikki: And I’m telling you, your strategy doesn’t work!

 

 

PA — PA’s Plan Is  About Changing the Culture Within Britain

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Laura: Well I’m answering your question.

 

What you do is you put forward a strategy. We’ve got 25 points in our plan, and only one of them is about repatriation. The other 24 are about changing the culture within Britain. So we envision that when we offer voluntary repatriation, the people who will take it will be those who either don’t speak English, sponge off the system, hate our country, demand reparations, attack us, all that kind of stuff. And the ones who choose to stay will be the ones who love Britain and the British.

 

So we envision that our plan will work. That’s why we put put forward our plan. But did you want me to answer a question Simon about the Pakistanis?

 

Simon: I did, but we’ve moved on a bit since then. So, …

 

Laura: Can I just ask Rickki a question?

 

Simon: Yeah.

Laura: So Rikki, all those people who were in the BLM riots, who were like pulling down statues and setting fire to the flag, and that. Just to clarify, they’re British to you, is that right?

 

Rikki: I don’t know if they’re British, or not. I don’t know where they’re from.

 

Laura: You don’t know. Okay. So say if they had British passports, those people to you were British?

 

Rikki: If they were born here and they have British passports, of course, they’re British. What else are they?

 

Laura: So when you say “British lives matter” your patriotism also includes people like that?

 

Rikki: All lives matter! Their actions are wrong. And their actions are against the thread of this nation and society. But are they British is your question? And the answer is yes, they are!

 

Laura: Yeah, and I’m asking when are say British lives matter, ..

 

Rikki: Listen. You’re trying to paint a different picture here.

 

Laura: But this is who you’re talking about.

 

 

BRLM — Inclusive Patriotism Is  Patriotism That is Accessible to All Skin Colors, Religions, and Backgrounds

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Rikki: Now let me tell you the truth about inclusive patriotism, all right? It’s a patriotism that is accessible to all skin colors, religions, and backgrounds, of people that live in this country, that we can be proud together of this nation, of the flag, of this culture! And it’s a united force, rather than a dividing force, which is what you are proposing! Which is that patriotism is only accessible to native White British people!

 

Do you not see the racism in that? Do you not see the divisive nature of that type of statement?

 

Laura: There’s no such thing as “inclusive patriotism”.

 

Rikki: Absolutely there is!

 

 

PA — If Your Patriotism Extends to People from the Whole World, Then It’s Not Patriotism

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Laura: If your patriotism extends to people from the whole world, then it’s not patriotism, is it?

 

Rikki: I said people of Britain!

 

Laura: If your flag represents a nation which includes anybody and everybody — bearing in mind that around two-thirds of a million people are coming to this country every single year — then you actually stand for absolutely nothing at all!

 

Rikki: I stand for Britain, and I stand for, ..

 

Laura: And that’s why I’m glad that I’m part of Patriotic Alternative, because we stand for the indigenous people of these islands!

 

Rikki: Only stand for indigenous people?

 

Laura: Yes I do! May I ask you another question?

 

Rikki: Who are these indigenous people? [over-talking each other]

 

Simon: Hang on! One at a time.

 

 

BRLM — Are the Indigenous People Only White People?

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Rikki: Who are the indigenous people? Are they the White people?

 

Laura: The British, yeah.

 

Rikki: Do you stand for black people?

 

Laura: British people are White!

 

Rikki: Do you stand for black people?

 

Laura: I wish all other people well, but my people are the British. And PA stands for them.

 

Rikki: You stand for Asian people in this country?

 

Laura: What do you mean:

“Do I stand for them?”

 

Rikki: Like, do you stand for them?

 

Laura: A small amount of immigrants is okay, but they’re not my people. I put my people first.

 

Rikki: Okay. All right.

 

Simon: To clarify that. You stand for your people and your people are White British. That’s what you are saying.

 

Laura: Hmm.

 

Simon: Right, okay. And what you’re saying here is you stand for anybody who perceives, or thinks, or feels, or are, as the “legal” says, are British? Is that correct?

 

Rikki: No I didn’t say that, I said, ..

 

Simon: No, but I’m asking you but putting that, …

 

Rikki: I’m going to tell you. I stand for the people of Britain! All right? The people of Britain!

 

Simon: Now, do you believe that a black person born in Great Britain, or that comes to Great Britain, could be more patriotic than a White person that’s been here for years, who’s an absolute tosser?

Laura: Is this to me?

 

Simon: Well, I’m going to put it in both you actually, because this is a reasonable question. So I’ll put it to you Laura first.

 

 

PA — You Have Your People, and You Should Be Loyal to Your People

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Laura: Yeah, I think if we’re looking at individuals they’re a good and bad in all races. And some White people are assholes, but you can’t look at individuals, you have to look at the trends of the overall group. And, you know what you also can’t just pick the best people from each country, because that’s not fair. That’s not how this works. You have your people, and you should be loyal to your people.

 

Rikki: Yeah, 100%. I would rather stand with somebody who is patriotic, without looking at their skin color! The thing that matters is does somebody care about this nation? Does somebody care about this nation progressing? This nation prospering? If they do, then that’s the person I want to stand with.

 

I don’t want to stand with somebody who wants to divide this nation, who wants to racially segregate this nation! Who wants to discriminate against people, because of race! Which actually is the definition of racism!

 

So if you look at what Laura is talking about, and Patriotic Alternative, they are the definition of racism! And I can’t stand that word being thrown around as much as it is, in the modern day. And it really loses a lot of its value. But if anybody in this country of Great Britain wants to see racism, they just need to look at Laura and Patriotic Alternative. They’ll find it.

 

 

PA — It’s More About the Individual, Than the Collective?

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Laura: So Ricky, do you support “individualism”? Is that right? It’s more about the individual, than the collective?

 

Rikki: It’s more, … I’ll judge individuals on their merits.

 

Laura: Yeah, so, ..

 

Rikki: Listen, I haven’t finished. The “collective” is the people of Britain.

 

Laura: Yeah.

 

Rikki: That is the collective. And we need to reinstall patriotism in this country! What you’re doing, is you’re removing the accessibility of patriotism to anybody who’s not White! That is wrong! And that’s what’s destroying this country!

 

 

PA — Your Go Fund Me Page Says That You Support “Individualism”

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Laura: Yeah. So on your GoFundMe page, where you’re trying to raise ten thousand pounds, it says that you support “individualism”. So it matters who an individual person is, and other groups shouldn’t collectivize as a group.

 

So how would you break up groups from acting together? Because black people, Muslims, jews, etc., have a very strong ethnic identity, and in-group preference. So how would you break that up, and tell them to act as individuals? Because you’re saying White people can’t collectivize. So what about other groups? How would you break that up?

 

 

BRLM — Promote Patriotism Through Education in the Schools

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Rikki: Well I’ve just told you the unifying factor of all people of Britain, and that is patriotism, that is pride in this nation, that is passion for this country!

 

And the way that we do it, is we do it through education. The way that we do it is we go back to the schools. We go back to the universities. We introduce patriotism again. We fly the flag, we teach the anthem, we make patriotism something to be proud of! Something to be valued!

 

What’s happened in the last 10, 20, years, and maybe even further, is that they have disintegrated patriotism, and they have moved it into subgroups, and subcultures.

 

Yes! Their mass immigration was part of that. And yes, they did have immigration with a bad strategy, with too many people at once, in too many batches. And they need to stop this illegal immigration that’s happening now!

 

But what needs to happen for the future of this country is patriotism needs to be installed back in the country! Back in the education system! Back on our mainstream medias! And stop this focus on groups, minority groups, segregation of people into LGBTQ, into feminism, into religious groups, into this, into that! And we need to stand together and be united and proud to be British!

 

Laura: Yeah, these are just empty words that mean nothing!

 

Rikki: They’re not empty words, how do you, …

 

 

PA — Jews, for Example, They Have a Very Strong In-Group Preference

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Laura: If you look at jews, for example, they have a very, very, very strong in-group preference. And you suddenly think by sending them to university, or watching something on TV, that they’re going to forget their in-group preference and just be like:

 

“Yeah guys! We’re all individuals! Let’s unite under the flag!”

 

Why does White flight exist?

 

Rikki: White what?

 

 

PA — Why Does White Flight Exist?

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Laura: Why does White flight exist?

 

Rikki: White flight?

 

Laura: White flight, yeah. So when a town becomes more urban, and more multicultural, why do White people move away? And move to a more White place.

 

Simon: Can we put slow mode on the chat, because it’s going so quick that they can’t, they’ve asked me to put slow mode on the chat. Can you do that?

 

Rikki: On which chat? On the YouTube, or?

 

Simon: Yeah on YouTube chat.

 

Rikki: Yeah, there’s a moderator who’s doing it.

 

Simon: Cool! Lovely! Okay I just thought I’d ask this. At the moment I can’t keep up with it! They’ve got questions, okay.

 

Rikki: Now Laura, hang on a minute. You haven’t even told me, … Oh, White flight. Okay.

 

Laura: Why does White flight exist?

 

 

BRLM — Where’s Your Evidence That White Flight Exists? 

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Rikki: Where’s your evidence that White flight exists? I haven’t seen anything about White flight.

 

Laura: Well assume for one moment that it does. And I’ll send you some evidence after the debate.

 

Simon: White flight from where? From Great Britain? Or from cities?

 

Laura: From cities that become diverse, White people tend to move out to more quiet villages and places which are less diverse. Why does that exist?

 

Rikki: You tell me! You’re the one who’s making that claim. And listen, the brunt of evidence, …

 

Laura: It’s, because people don’t mix naturally and they prefer their own people. Can you tell me what incentives an ethnic minority living in Britain have to adopt your form of patriotism? What incentive have they got? Why would they do that?

 

Rikki: Like I said it starts in the school! Why would they not do it?

 

Laura: Because there’s no reason for them to do it!

 

Simon: Hang on!

 

Rikki: What they’re doing right now is they’re indoctrinating children in school, right? They’re indoctrinating them with ideas of 100 genders, ideas of activism, ideas of reducing masculinity, a lot of different things that are coming from political groups, right? Which I believe is wrong! Well not just me, the law believes it’s wrong! 1996 Education Act, they’re not supposed to indoctrinate children. But they are!

 

Why are they doing it, and how are they achieving it? Because children can be taught things! So children need to be taught patriotism! They need to be taught to be proud of this nation. And they can be.

 

Laura: So what you’re talking about here, is just dismantling thousands, and thousands, of years of in-group preference for certain races and ethnic groups, and just saying we’re going to dismantle that in some universities. There’s no incentive for you to do it, but you will support our flag in our country even though that means absolutely nothing. I think it’s incredibly naive for you to think that, ..

 

Rikki: Who does it mean nothing to? Who does it mean nothing to?

 

 

PA — 19,000 British Children, Boys and Girls, Were Groomed, Tortured, and Raped, Last Year!

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Laura: It means nothing to people who already have their own identity. They’re not going to start going:

 

“You know what, yeah Ricky, let’s just support the British flag, and I won’t identify as a jew anymore, or as a Chinese person anymore. I’m just going to adopt the flag!”

 

We had 19,000 British children, boys and girls, were groomed, tortured, and raped, last year! And many of the abusers said that they did this, because they saw White girls as “easy meat”.

 

So how long do we have to wait until this colorblind society that you promote kicks in? Because it’s not kicking in any time soon.

 

Rikki: First of all. First of all, the grooming gangs, right? They are child rapists! All right? They’re child rapists! And they’re also racists! Because they target White girls. They don’t target children of the Asian communities, …

 

Simon: Sikh girls, as well.

 

 

BRLM — You’re Trying to Use Identity Politics to Prove a Point!

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Rikki: And the reason why, is they said they will get in trouble by their communities, all right.

 

But that doesn’t take anything away from the White person, the Asian person, the black person, that’s committing rape, that’s committing trafficking, that’s committing any other heinous crime!

 

What you’re trying to do, is you’re trying to use identity politics to prove a point that all black and brown people are wrong to be in this country! I tell you who’s wrong to be in this country. You! And I don’t care about your how you want to go about your DNA, or how you want to go about anything! But you and your organization Patriotic Alternative, you’re a danger to this country, and this society!

 

And I’m telling you now your ideology is not going to work. But anyway, I’ve already heard that you guys are crumbling from the inside. So that’s okay.

 

Laura: Well, that’s not true at all! We’re actually growing. We are going from strength to strength. So just to confirm, ..

 

Rikki: So the bulldog nationalists agree with you?

 

Laura: What do you mean? So people disagree on certain things, but it doesn’t mean that PA is crumbling.

 

So can I just confirm, you do not care if the ethnic British become a minority in Britain. Is that right?

 

Rikki: I don’t think I’ve said that. You’re being disingenuous.

 

 

PA — If Native British People Became 50% of the Population by 2060, Would You Care?

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Laura: Well I’m asking you can you confirm, if British people, native British people became 50% of the population, or less in Britain, would you care about that, or would you not care?

 

Rikki: Let me address that. Let me address that, right? Because according to you, your manifesto, and your rhetoric, at 2060 is around the period when you say that the British, …

 

Laura: Not me, professor David Coleman from the University of Oxford.

 

 

Rikki: All right, so professor David Coleman said it, right? Let me just tell you something about that first. That is an estimation. It’s no fact! You presented it like it’s a fact. It’s not a fact! It’s an estimation!

 

Laura: It’s an estimation based on current treads.

 

Rikki: It’s an estimation!

 

Laura: It’s a prediction.

 

Rikki: I’ll tell you why is it an estimation. Because it hasn’t come to pass. And it’s more than likely not going to come to pass, if we do something about it now! And what we have to do is stop illegal immigration! We have to encourage birth rates to go up.

 

And listen, if you even look at the model in in Iran, all right? The Persian people for thousands of years, even all the way back to the Old Testament, and them times, have been attacked with real invasions! I mean, invasions with weapons! No, I’ve a point, …

 

Laura: Can you answer the question?

 

Rikki: Let me finish my point.

 

Simon: Hang, hang on! Rikki I’m not going to stop you, …

 

Rikki: For thousands of years the Persian people have not stopped being the majority in Iran! So for you to predict that in 2060 White British will be a minority.

 

Simon: Rikki, no. You’ve got to listen to this, right? What you’ve just said is that his estimations were wrong, but you said that.

 

Rikki: No! No! no! I said they’re an estimation, right?

 

Simon: Okay. His estimations would be correct if things continue, …

 

Rikki: How can they be correct?

 

Simon: Hang on! You’ve just said if we change them, they won’t be correct. All right? You said, if we change them they won’t be correct. And and you’re correct in saying that, if we change them. But if things stay the same, then they will be correct. I’ve got to pull you up on that.

 

Rikki: Well listen, no, no, she threw a hypothesis out, and I threw one back!

 

Laura: No. It’s a prediction based on current trends.

 

Rikki: All right, well I also throw out a prediction.

 

Laura: Okay, well let’s just for a moment forget whether it will, or will not happen. If it did happen, would you think that that was a bad thing, or a good thing? The British becoming a minority in Britain.

 

 

BRLM — If It Happens, It Happens! I Don’t Believe the British People Are Just White People!

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Rikki: I think that if it happens, it happens! Because I believe the British people are the British people! I don’t believe the British people are just White people!

 

Laura: Okay, we’re talking about the native British! The English, Scottish Welsh, et cetera. If they became a minority in their country would you think that was a good thing, or a bad thing?

 

 

BRLM — Oh! So We’re Germans?

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Rikki: Laura, who were the first British people?

 

Laura: Why can’t you answer the question?

 

Rikki: Who were the first British people?

 

Laura: British people are northwest European. So it was the Celts, who were here first, and then we had invasions, …

 

Rikki: You mean from Germany? From Germany?

 

Laura: That’s who we are, yeah.

 

Rikki: Oh! So we’re Germans?

 

Laura: We’re northwest Europeans, yeah. We came from Europe.

 

Rikki: So we are Germans?

 

Simon: But they weren’t called German then, were they?

 

Laura: As an English person, …

 

Rikki: Are you a moderator? Are you in this debate?

 

Simon: Sorry Shack! I’ll shut up!

 

Laura: Can you answer the question, Rikki? If the British became a minority in Britain — I’ve asked you four times now, …

 

Rikki: I already answered your question! I’ve answered the question! I don’t believe, and I know that British is not just White people! All right?

 

We are a country with many different skin colours, that have came from many different lineages! And I’ll tell you what! Some of them are way more British than you!

 

Laura: There are not different levels to being British. You’re either British are you not. So the audience wants to know if you think the British becoming a minority in Britain is a good thing, or not? You don’t seem, ..

 

Rikki: I’ve already answered the question, but, you, ..

 

Laura: If it happens, ..

 

Rikki: You talk like you have some great points that you’re trying to prove.

 

Laura: Why won’t you answer the question?

 

Rikki: Let me tell you something! Let me tell you something!

 

I am passionate about this nation! And I want the best for this nation! And I know many people with black skin, with different shades of skin, that want the same type of prosperity and good future for their children, and even their children’s, children in this country!

 

Laura: Okay, that is nice.

 

Rikki: No! Listen! That makes them just as much patriotic as you are, or me, ..

 

Laura: Okay. This was the last conversation. I’m now asking you about the actual, you know, the English, the Scottish, the Welsh, etc., the native British. If they became a minority in Britain, despite whether you believe it’s going to happen, or not, would you think that that was a good thing, or a bad thing?

Rikki: But I’ve just told you they can’t become a minority!

 

Laura: No I’m asking you, …

 

Rikki: How can they become a minority?

 

Laura: Simon! Do you understand the question? I’m saying if it happens, if we become less than, …

 

Rikki: No, I understand, …

 

Simon: Hang on. Ask the question again to me.

 

BRLM — The “British” People Can’t Become a “Minority” in 2060, Because the British People Are Made up of People of All Colors, Backgrounds, Religions!

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Laura: So the native British, so the English, Scottish, Welsh, et cetera, the ethnically British, if we became less than 50% of the population in the future, so if we became a minority in Britain, would Rikki think that that was a good thing, or a bad thing?

 

Simon: And Rikki said as long as they think they’re British, or they’re happy, …

Rikki: I never said that!

 

Simon: Hang on! Hang on!

Rikki: You said that you are neutral!

 

Simon: I am neutral. But what you said is, :

“As long as they’re happy to be British, and they’re British, you don’t care what colour they are.”

 

Rikki: I didn’t say that.

 

Simon: Yeah, all right. Can you reword it then?

 

Rikki: I’m gonna do it, all right? I said that the British people won’t become a minority, because the British people are made up of people of all colors, backgrounds, religions! So how can they become a minority! It’s impossible! You’re talking about White people!

 

Laura: I’m asking you about the native people, …

 

Rikki: You’re talking about White people!

 

Laura: I’m asking you about the native British, you know, people who are ethnically British.

 

Rikki: You are talking about White people!

 

Laura: Yeah, ethnically British.

 

Rikki: Guess what? Britain is not just White anymore! Britain is not just White anymore!

 

Laura: Why don’t you answer the question? It’s actually like you want to hide this from your supporters, because you don’t want to admit that you don’t, …

 

Rikki: I’m not hiding anything!

 

Laura: So answer the question, then!

 

Rikki: I’ve told you the answer!

 

Laura: No you haven’t!

 

Rikki: I’ve told you the answer!

 

Laura: I’m talking about ethnically British! Would you care about, ..

 

Rikki: What your classification of what is ethnically British, is not British to me! British is many different skin colors, many different backgrounds!

 

Laura: So you don’t even recognize that there is ethnically British people? Is that where we are now?

 

Rikki: You’re talking about skin color!

 

Laura: I’m talking about ethnicity.

 

Rikki: You can wrap it up, you can wrap it up in ethnicity, and indigenous, as much as you want, you’re talking about people then.

 

Laura: If you think that the ethnicity is just people, …

 

Rikki: If you think that people can’t be British, … All right. Let me ask you this question. Can a black person be English?

 

Laura: No. English is an ethnicity!

 

Rikki: Is Rahem still English?

 

Laura: No.

 

Rikki: Is Reo Ferdinand?

 

Laura: No.

 

Rikki: [chuckling]

 

 

PA — Are British Are an Ethnic Group?

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Laura: Do you not admit that the British are an ethnic group? I know you think everyone’s British. But do you think that you can be ethnically British.

 

Rikki: No, I don’t. I just think the people of Britain are British.

 

 

On DNA Tests

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Laura: Do you do not agree that there is an ethnicity called British, as well? So when I took my DNA test, it said that I was British. Can you admit that’s a thing?

 

Rikki: Your DNA test said what?

 

Laura: That I was British. Can you admit that’s a thing?

 

Rikki: Your DNA test said what?

 

Laura: That I was British. Can you admit the that is a thing?

 

Rikki: How far does your DNA test go?

 

Laura: Why can’t you answer the question?

 

Rikki: And should everybody take a DNA test to prove that they’re British, in your Patriotic Alternative world?

 

Laura: No! People know what ethnicity they are.

 

Why can’t you answer the question? So you won’t answer! You won’t answer about the British becoming a minority in Britain, and you won’t even admit that the ethnically British exist! That we are an ethnic group! That’s how, …

 

And you call yourself a patriot? Do you have any political views?

 

 

BRLM — The British People No Matter Their Skin Colour Are British!

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Rikki: … British people. No matter if they’re White, no matter if they’re black, no matter if they’re Asian, the British people are the British people! You’re trying to stand for a skin color! You can wrap it up in ethnicity as much as you want. And look, let me just say this, yeah?

 

 

BRLM — PA’s Leader Mark Collett Admires Hitler and NS

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So Patriotic Alternative leader, Mark Collett, young Nazi and proud! That we all saw the channel for documentary of him, not only showing admiration for Adolf Hitler, but even showing admiration for Nazi Germany in 1930! And saying that, that was something that can be admired! That when you see them do the “Seig Heil”, that it’s admirable.

 

And before you tell me that that was years ago, well I’ve I’ve read his book “Fall of the Western Man”. He mentions 15 times National Socialism! He hasn’t changed his opinion! That’s your leader! Do you agree with that position?

 

 

Laura: In this debate Rikki, you do not get to throw the scary N-word, “Nazi”! You think that you have won the argument.

 

Rikki: Do you agree with Mark’s position?

 

Laura: Because it won’t wash with me.

 

If you have a problem with National Socialism, then it’s now your responsibility to dismantle why you disagree with Mark’s ideology. You don’t just get to go “Nazis”!

 

Rikki: Do you agree with the ideology?

 

Laura: Or “Fascist” and think you have [word unclear] because you haven’t.

 

Rikki: Do you agree with the ideology?

 

 

PA — Patriotic Alternative is Not a National Socialist Organization

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Laura: Mark is a National Socialist, Patriotic Alternative is not a National Socialist organization. He’s somebody who loves Britain a lot more than you do. And he’s a real patriot.

 

Rikki: So you don’t believe in National Socialism? Can you denounce National Socialism?

 

 

BRLM — The Nazis Murdered Eight Million Jews! 

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Laura: I mean, you can’t even admit that the British are an ethnic group. And you don’t care about British people becoming a minority in our own country!

 

Rikki: Okay, you are trying to brush this under the carpet, right? You are Nazis!

 

Laura: This is a single [word unclear] issue that we face today.

 

Rikki: The Nazis murdered eight million jews! And your leader of your group, is sympathizing with them, admiring them! That’s dangerous! Do you not see that as dangerous?

 

 

PA — The Jews Murdered up to 20 Million People in the Holodomor

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Laura: What I see is dangerous, you support Israel as being the home of the jewish people. Jews murdered more people with the Holodomor. They murdered up to 20 million people. But that doesn’t stop you, because it’s not in existence today, so it doesn’t matter. So instead of throwing up, ..

 

Rikki: Don’t forget the Six Day War! The Six Day War! Israel won the Six Day War! And they gave land to [word unclear] people around.

 

Laura: Why do [word unclear] for a homeland for Jews in Israel, but you don’t for British people in Britain?

 

Rikki: Because Britain’s not occupied by foreign forces, or foreign nations.

 

Laura: Well, some might disagree with that!

 

Rikki: Yeah, but listen! You are not answering the question about your leader Mark Collett, and his Nazi sympathizing, right?

 

Laura: You haven’t answered any of my questions.

 

Rikki: Now, if you pair the fact that he’s got a history of Nazi sympathizing, with the fact that you guys are pushing an agenda of a White Britain, alarm bells are ringing! Red flags are out! You don’t see that?

 

Laura, you seem like a sensible girl! I don’t know if you’ve been brainwashed into this nonsense, or what. But it is nonsense! You guys are just as dangerous as the far Left! You guys are the far Right! You are dangerous!

 

Laura: So, you’re just throwing labels about you. Sound like you belong in Hope Not Hate.

 

Rikki: But these are real labels. No, no, these are real labels!

 

Laura: You’ve called us Nazis, you’ve called us fascists, you’ve called us racists, you’ve called us far Right.

 

Rikki: No! I never called you a Nazi!

 

Laura: Rikki, it’s pathetic!

 

Rikki: I haven’t called you a Nazi!

 

Laura: It’s absolutely pathetic.

 

Rikki: Simon, I never called them a Nazi. She’s putting words in my mouth. I told her, her leader is a Nazi sympathizer and that’s a fact! There’s evidence for it!

 

Laura: He’s not a Nazi! “Nazi” for start, is an anti-White slur.

 

Rikki: National Socialism is Nazism! Look it up!

 

Laura: National Socialism is just an ideology. If you have a problem with it.

 

Rikki: Which is Nazism and anti-semitism!

 

Laura: You don’t have to [word unclear] now. Its an ideology then Ricky. Dismantle it.

 

Rikki: Isn’t it funny, … All right I’ll dismantle it! I’ll dismantle it, all right? I’ll dismantle it!

 

Eight million jews dead in Europe! Dismantled! Finished!

 

Laura: That is not the ideology.

 

Rikki: It is the ideology. It’s been proven.

 

Simon: National Socialism was a political, … Nazi party, National Socialism is a political ideology. But anyway, right, …

 

Rikki: That caused millions of jews to die.

 

Simon: Yep, right, okay. Now, ..

 

Rikki: No, no! You can’t just say ah, ah [hand waving]

 

Simon: No, no, no, no! I’ve not, … I’m going, …

 

Rikki: Are we moving away from that truth?

 

Simon: Have I said that? I was just listening to you and going, hey, yeah, fair enough, because I can’t be going to go:

“You’re right, you’re wrong.”

Can I? As much as I can, right?

But you want to know, does Mark Collett, like “worship Adolf Hitler”? Now you’re saying that he doesn’t, is that correct?

 

Laura: Mark Collett does not worship Adolf Hitler.

 

Patriotic Alternative has put forward a plan, and you can read the plan, and it’s not National Socialism. If we were a National Socialist pair of people, then PA’s plan would be National Socialism.

 

What Ricky’s trying to do is bring up the “Holocaust” which is, you know, the “scariest” event from history to shut down the debate. But he doesn’t care about the fact that jews murdered 20 million people in the Holodomor! In fact, he actually supports a homeland for the jews in Israel.

 

Rikki: The jews were not responsible for the Holodomor!

 

Laura: He won’t do that for the British people in Britain.

 

Rikki: What Laura has just done, you might have missed it, but what Laura just did is an anti-semitic slur right there.

 

Laura: So now I’m anti-semitic as well!

 

 

PA — Mark Collett Isn’t Responsible for the “Holocaust”

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Rikki: The jews were not responsible for the Holodomor! You are just throwing things out there.

 

Laura: Mark Collett isn’t responsible for the “Holocaust” but it doesn’t stop you bringing it up.

 

Rikki: Yeah and I didn’t say that he was. I just said that he supports the regime that caused, and enacted, the murder of millions of jews. And that is a fact! You can’t deny it.

 

Simon: All right, let’s, …

 

Rikki: It’s on video, channel Four, and and you can read his book, it’s right there, National Socialism.

 

Laura: That documentary is from 20 years ago!

 

Rikki: Maybe you know him better than me.

 

Simon: Do you want to get on, …

 

Laura: I do know him better than you.

 

 

The Benefit System

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Simon: How would you deal with a benefit system for people coming into this country? Each of you. Right, I’ll go to you Ricky. How would you deal with the benefits system?

 

Rikki: A benefit system for people coming into this country?

 

Simon: How would you deal with it?

 

Rikki: If they’re coming in illegally, they need to be returned! No benefits.

 

Simon: But we’ve got a problem. We have a problem as well with the UN agreement in 1951, which says we’ve got to give him all that shit. That’s a problem.

 

Rikki: Yeah, it’s a problem. But listen when it comes down to December the 31st, and when we Brexit, we are going to have more power. And we’re going to have the chance for to put the Maritime Power Act in, and turn the boats around on the water if they’re deemed to be illegal immigrants.

 

 

PA — Illegal Immigration is Just a Drop in the Water Compared to Legal Immigration

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Simon: Laura. What do you think?

 

Laura: Well first of all, illegal immigration is just a drop in the water compared to legal immigration.

 

When it comes to legal immigration we talk we’re talking about two-thirds of a million people who are coming into the country every single year. So the figures of illegal immigrants is actually completely insignificant.

 

But what I would do is change the benefits system completely, so that, rather than it being a hammock that people can lie in and sponge off of their whole lives, it would be a safety net for people in times of need.

 

You would have no benefits if you don’t speak English. You would have no benefits unless you’re an actual British citizen, and you can prove that you’re a functioning member of society.

 

But just the concept that illegal immigration, if we stop illegal immigration we’re suddenly going to save the country, it’s ridiculous!

 

For a start we have people in the country already, a quarter of the population who have very high fertility rates compared to British people. We’re talking 2.5 children per woman for black families. And 3.5 children per woman for Pakistani families. And you somehow seem to think that that can just stay. And if we stop illegal immigration all the problems will be fixed. It’s just an incredibly infantile, and childish way of thinking!

 

 

 

Rikki: Can I respond?

 

Laura: I honestly feel like I’m talking to a ten-year-old.

Simon: Right.

 

Rikki: Throw some insults!

 

Simon: Okay. Can I have one minute out of here, just for two seconds? I’ll come back. Can you answer that question in a second Ricky? I literally, … Bathroom, sorry.

 

 

BRLM — PA Has the Same Type of Ideology That Led to the “Holocaust”

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Rikki: All right. So look, this is the thing. You never you never answered me about your leader. Like I said, you seem smart, I don’t know how you got into all this stuff.

 

But your leader has proven that he’s a sympathizer with the Nazis, with Adolf Hitler. And you guys are pushing an agenda that is a against anybody who’s not White. That’s kind of the same type of ideology in the “Holocaust”, wasn’t it? It was ethnic cleansing.

 

Laura: Oh the the “Holocaust” again! Let’s bring up the “Holocaust” if you are losing the argument.

 

Rikki: No, but you guys are promoting an agenda that is a political ethnic cleansing. Do you not see that?

 

Rikki: Because you want to clean all ethnicities out of the country who are not White!

 

Laura: Ricky, what is the difference between your views and somebody like Ash Sarkar, or David Lammy? Because they also think that they are British. So what is the difference between your views and theirs?

 

Rikki: My views are very different.

 

Laura: How?

 

Rikki: They’re not against illegal immigration. They’re not, ..

 

Laura: Okay. So let’s just forget about illegal immigration. But their entire world view.

 

Rikki: They are also for remaining [in the EU] I’m a Brexiteer!

 

Listen, this is how I differentiate. I believe in a Britain with secure borders, with a points-based immigration system. I believe in a Britain that takes back foreign aid and invests in Britain. I believe in the Britain that does everything to make British manufacturing come back, and British jobs to increase. And I believe in a Britain that’s very difficult to immigrate to. That only accepts people that are going to benefit this country. That’s what I believe. That is how I’m different to Ash Sakar.

 

Laura: Benefit who? Is it benefiting the native population if Chinese, you know, high IQ immigrants are coming over and taking their jobs? Is that benefiting the native population?

 

Rikki: I tell you it’s benefiting, the people of Britain.

 

Laura: The new people who are coming over from China, because they’re just as British as us right? So yeah, it does benefit them, I’m guessing. But it doesn’t actually benefit the British, does it? And I’m talking about the actual British, not just people with British passports.

 

How does the British people becoming a minority in their own country and feeling like a stranger in their own town, and crime increasing, and then and their kids being the only English kid in the classroom, how does that benefit them at all? It doesn’t!

 

Rikki: Listen. That’s a problem with immigration. And I’ve agreed with you Laura on immigration.

 

 

PA — You Support a Points-Based System That Won’t Slow Immigration Down

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Laura: You’ve just said that you support a points-based system that won’t slow immigration down. It will just be a different class of immigrants.

 

Rikki: It will.

 

Laura: No it won’t.

 

Rikki: It will slow it down.

 

Laura: Well that tells me that you don’t understand the new plan, because it won’t.

 

Rikki: It will be because it will be hard to get into the country.

 

Laura: The required salary is just above minimum wage. It will not slow it down!

 

Rikki: I mean, you keep talking about indigenous British, indigenous British. So I challenge you to a DNA test, and you publicly post your results so we can see how British you are.

 

Laura: Yeah, okay it’s already on YouTube. I’m 100% northwest European.

 

Rikki: Okay. So then we need to see it. Can you retweet it tonight, so we can see how British you are.

 

Laura: Just go to my YouTube channel and see it.

 

Rikki: You are so indigenous British that you have the right to tell many other British people in this country, who don’t share the same DNA as you, that they need, that they shouldn’t be living here! You couldn’t write it!

 

Laura: Well again, I haven’t said that they shouldn’t be living here, I’ve said that they can have voluntary repatriation.

 

 

BRLM — PA’s Repatriation Plan Will Cost 165 Billion Pounds!

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Rikki: Let me talk about your repatriation plan, all right?

 

So your repatriation plan is to offer incentives of around 15,000 pounds to people who are not “indigenous”, who are not White British in their DNA, in their history and background.

 

Now, you’re looking at around 11 million people that are not “White British”, or indigenous, as you say. So let’s just put your 15,000 into 11 million. And guess what you get, 165 billion! That’s the exact amount of money that Jeff Bezos is worth! Where are you getting your 165 billion from?

 

Laura: Well for a start International Aid is around 14 billion per year.

 

Rikki: That’s not 165.

 

Laura: And we haven’t suggested that they all have to leave in the same year. There’s all sorts of places where we can take the money from.

 

I’m actually not concerned about the economic side of it at all.

 

For an example, NHS translators cost us 64,000 pounds per day. Even things like that would be four people a day. But International Aid is not 0.7 of profit. So that’s around, I mean, we could cover it in maybe 10 years just from International Aid alone. We’re not saying that everybody has to leave in the first year, we’re saying over time.

 

That’s how it would go on. So the financial side is not a problem at all.

 

Rikki: Everybody has to leave over time?

 

Laura: Not everybody. But anybody who wants to.

 

Rikki: Everyone not White? Oh okay, I missed that point.

 

Laura: You mean British.

 

Rikki: Sorry I missed that point. So you’re saying that they don’t have to leave. So if everybody refuses, it’s fine?

 

Laura: We’re offering volunteer repatriation. If people want to take it. We’ve been through this quite a few times.

 

Rikki: It needs to be clear. If everyone says no, then the country will remain as it?

 

Laura: I actually did a speech at the last conference, so it’s already very clear. So feel free to go and watch that.

 

Rikki: So on your DNA test, you said it’s its northern European.

 

Laura: It’s northwest European.

 

Rikki: That doesn’t mean it’s British, right?

 

Laura: That’s who we are. Who do you think we are? Where do you think we came from?

 

 

PA — We’re Now Doing That the British People Don’t Exist Argument

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Rikki: So that means every everybody is not really truly, truly, British, right? If you’re not northwestern European, it could be Holland?

 

Laura: So now, just for the audience to listen to this, we’re now doing that the British people don’t exist argument.

 

Rikki: Of course they do.

 

Laura: You have the same arguments that people like Hope Not Hate.

 

Rikki: No! The British people do exist.

 

Laura: You’re saying that British people don’t exist.

 

Rikki: The British people are here! And some of them are black!

 

Laura: You’re saying that British people don’t exist!

 

Rikki: Some British people are black!

 

Laura: This is what people with FPE in their Twitter names do! You have the same arguments as them.

 

Rikki: No, no, no! Listen.

 

You refuse to accept that British people can be black, that British people can be Asian, and that they can have different skin colors. You reject that. That means you isolate a huge percentage of this country with that ideology.

 

And in such a divisive time when these different groups are happening, and black people, and White people, are battling with each other, because of the BLM thing. Everyone’s identifying as this, and identifying as that, and, ..

 

 

BRLM — The Whole Ideology Lines up with Adolf Hitler, and Nazis!

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Laura: Yeah, because that’s natural, because that’s how they do identify.

 

Rikki: … In this country there’s so much division. You want to create more division. And that’s why I say that you’re dangerous! You are dangerous to the people of Britain! The whole ideology you’re presenting, it lines up with the same Adolf Hitler, and Nazis!

 

Laura: Oh! Here we go!

 

Rikki: That is your guy, Mark Collett, has admitted that he loves, ..

 

Laura: You have no argument so, ..

 

Rikki: You can try and laugh it off, ..

 

Laura: You have no argument, so you call “Nazi”!

 

Rikki: No, it’s not.

 

Laura: Rikki, it’s pathetic.

 

Rikki: I haven’t called anyone a Nazi.

 

Laura: You are!

 

Rikki: I haven’t called anyone a Nazi!

 

Laura: I can only hope that your audience are listening to this and they’ve heard you say that British people don’t exist, that it doesn’t matter if they become a minority in their own country!

 

Rikki: I haven’t said that. You’re being disingenuous!

 

Laura: And I’ve heard you call me a Nazi, far-Right racist.

 

Simon: Right, yeah, yeah. Hang on a second. What you need to clear up here Laura, is when you were saying British people, in your view it’s White British people?

 

Laura: Yeah, it’s ethnically British people.

 

Simon: Okay, if we say that, hang on a second, what you’re saying is White British people, right. That that clears up a lot.

And then Ricky can say I believe that the British people are people who believe they’re British, who are legally British, or that kind of thing, yeah?

 

Laura: Yeah.

 

Simon: And then when we’re on that, you know exactly where you are here, right. So yours White British, yours is mixed British, but British. Correct?

 

 

PA — Well I Identify as Chinese Now!

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Laura: Well I identify as Chinese now! So I want to be called Chinese! Because you just have to say that you identify and that makes it true, apparently [Simon begins to drink some water]

 

Rikki: Then go back to China! [with a serious expression]

 

Laura: What?

 

 

The Moderator Gets Kicked Off

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Simon: [after chocking on his water, exclaims] Twat! Sorry!

 

Rikki: Oh! [he instantly cuts Simon from stream]

 

Laura: Oh! What happened?

 

Rikki: I took him out!

 

Laura: Why did you take him out?

 

Rikki: He wants to call me a “twat”, when he’s supposed to be the moderator!

 

Laura: He was laughing at what you said!

 

Rikki: It’s just me and you now.

 

Laura: He was laughing at what you said!

 

Rikki: It’s just me and you.

 

So look, point two and three in your manifesto talks about exempting those who share cultural, ethnic, backgrounds, and allowing migration of such people. So how do you define them, ..

 

Laura: Actually Rickki, I don’t want to continue speaking to you about a moderator. I thought that was very rude. He was actually laughing at your joke. And you just kicked him out, and he’s given up his free time to talk to you.

 

Rikki: What was rude was him calling me a name.

 

Laura: He was laughing at your joke because you said “Go back to China”. He laughed when he said it and you booted him out.

 

Rikki: He never laughed.

 

Laura: And, you know what you also get very offended at certain memes on Twitter. People have just been posting funny videos and stuff and you’ve been DMing [Direct Messaging] me saying:

 

“Oh my god this is what you guys [word unclear]!”

 

But it’s just a joke. If you’re going to be involved in politics you’re really going to have to learn to toughen up, because you’re not going to last two minutes.

 

 

 

BRLM — You Guys Are on the Wrong Side of History

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Rikki: I’m not going to last two minutes? Listen I’ve already said your ideology is not a sticker. You’ve not came here, you’ve shown me, all the people watching, nothing in terms of proof, or evidence that your ideology is good.

 

All you’ve done is show that you guys are led by a Nazi sympathizer and your ideology lines up with that of the Nazis! So I think it’s very fair to say that you guys are really on the wrong side of history!

 

Laura: You’ve not done well in this debate, at all! You just call me a Nazi, because you have no arguments.

 

Rikki: And I still haven’t called anybody a Nazi.

 

Laura: That’s literally what you’re doing. You’ve brought up the “Holocaust” about 15 times and you’ve called people Nazis. You don’t have any arguments. But are we going to finish this then, because you’ve [word unclear] time, and I don’t want to talk to you without a moderator?

 

Rikki: Yeah. No problem. So thank you for being here. I appreciate it. And even though I don’t agree with your stance, and obviously you don’t agree with mine.

 

Laura: Yeah.

 

Rikki: You know, debate’s important. And there’s certainly no hatred from my side towards you, or anything. It’s just a difference of ideas. And I hope that you can come around and see sense! And see that you’re pushing an evil ideology.

 

 

PA — My Ideology is Non-Negotiable!

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Laura: My ideology is non-negotiable! I’m never going to say that it’s fine for the British to become a minority in Britain. I don’t think that you will ever change your mind. But I hope that your audience, ..

 

Rikki: The British won’t become a minority.

 

Laura: Listens to some of the things I said today. And I hope that if any of your audience do think that the British exist, and that we should be the majority in our own country, I would hope that they joined us at Patriotic Alternative, because Rikki, can’t even answer that question about whether we deserve our own homeland. But it’s different for the jews, in Israel.

 

Rikki: Who’s we? Who’s we, that’s the thing?

 

Laura: I’m going to go now Rikki. Are we done?

 

Rikki: People need to run away from Patriotic Alternatives as quick as they can.

 

Laura: Are we done?

 

Rikki: British Lives Matter, is the movement for all British people, not just White people! It’s not a racist movement as you’ve proven Patriotic Alternative is!

 

Laura: Are evil Nazis! We’re evil Nazis! But all right thank you everyone in the audience for listening. I hope you guys have been listening.

 

Rikki: Thanks for being racists.

 

Laura: And I’ll see you again soon.

 

Rikki: You’ve proven it.

 

 

Laura Leaves the Stream

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[Laura leaves]

 

So there it is! The first ever British Lives Matter live debate

 

 

BRLM — Summary of His Position

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Yeah the moderator, you know, we gave him the chance to be neutral, but he certainly wasn’t neutral. And we knew at the beginning that he’s a Patriotic Alternative sympathizer, or even a member, maybe. But I thought he was just gonna be neutral, but he kept slipping in comments. And when he slipped in a comment to call me a name. Yeah, it was time for him to go. And Laura doesn’t want to do it without a friend, without her ally, so that’s fine.

 

We’ll get on with life, we’ll be pushing for a new live debate program very soon. So we’ll let, you know, who it’s going to be and when it’s going to be.

 

But look, all British lives matter! It doesn’t matter about the skin color! It doesn’t matter about the background, the religion of a person! If you are living in this country, if you have set up your home in this country, your life, your future, in this country, then you deserve, just as much as anybody else! Just as much respect!

 

And guess what? The British people in this country are of all colors!

 

Britishness is not determined by skin color! It’s not! It’s a wicked ideology that they’re pushing. And it’s one that is not only divisive, but it’s destructive! And it’ll never come to pass. And like I said, the infighting will finish them off anyway.

 

But thanks for watching. And we’ll see you very soon. Bye bye.

 

 

[62:10]

 

 

[END]

 

 

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See Also

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White Lives Matter” Banner Day — Sun, Aug 9, 2020

 

Dionne Moller – My Patriotic Alternative Conference Speech — Spring 2020 — Transcript