[00:00]

Emma Webb: Hello everyone. How am I supposed to follow that? I don’t have a Powerpoint presentation, or any videos. But I do want to start by saying that I am extremely honoured to be speaking in between Konstantin [Konstantin Kisin] and Eric [Eric Kaufmann]. So I’m going to begin by telling a short story.

In 793, when England wasn’t England yet, and was still made up of a series of kingdoms, it was invaded by the Danes. Starting in Northumbria, one by one, the Kingdoms fell, until just one was left. Wessex. Ruled by Alfred the Great.

When the Danes suddenly attacked the royal stronghold at Chippenham in 1878 [878], Alfred was forced to flee with a tiny band of men, hiding in the marshes of Somerset. All was lost! Alfred had imagined an England. An England united under one crown. And now, he was in a boggy marsh, a king without a kingdom. And it was during this time that he had a dream, or a vision, apparently, of Saint Cuspert of the Northumbrian Saint, encouraging him not to give up.

And from that position of almost total defeat, he did what Alfred did best. He organized! From the marshes he planned the retaking of Wessex, and ultimately of England. He raised the fears [?] of the shires. And in the seventh week after Easter – so not long from now – he won a decisive battle at Eddington in Wiltshire.

Alfred was not a physically strong man. In fact, he was plagued by debilitating illness. But he thought not in terms of his own lifetime, but in generations, even centuries. The system of [word unclear] he established still Mark the geography of our landscape today, as “boroughs”. His grandson Athelstan was crowned Rex Anglorum, king of England.

England could have been extinguished ingloriously that day, in those marshes. Instead one man’s imagination, ingenuity, organization, and courage, and the willingness of those who rallied to his call, snatched England away from a very different fate.

Well over a millennia later in 1945, a man was arrested in the Soviet Union for writing derogatory comments about Joseph Stalin in private letters to a friend. He was accused of founding a hostile organization and was taken to Lubyanka prison in Moscow. And eventually hauled off to the gulag. Between 1958 and 1967 he wrote The Gulag Archipelago. And a year later it was smuggled out of the USSR and went on to sell more than 30 million copies, in 35 languages!

Now, in the 2020s another of Solzhenitsyn’s works [Two hundred Years Together] has struck a chord in our own time. And it’s no wonder why. His short essay, Live Not By Lies [1974] in which he urges fellow Soviets not to comply with the lies of the regime.

People supported the lies to protect their families and livelihoods. And who could blame them?:

“They put whoever they want on trial.”

He wrote:

“And brand the healthy as mentally ill. The people feel helpless. They ask themselves, ‘but what can we do to stop it? We haven’t the strength’.”

Solzhenitsyn, in his wisdom and experience, tells us that the simplest and most accessible key to our liberation is the personal non-participation in lies:

“The personal non-participation in lies!”

That’s his instruction. Never knowingly support lies! Why am I telling you these stories? And I’ve been asked today to speak about resisting “woke”. And, in my opinion, it’s deserving of a better description. And Eric Kaufman has a much better description and term for it.

Some have suggested that there’s an element of “mass formation psychosis” in what we’ve been seeing. That it’s a form of collectivist hysteria, like that was seen in 17th century Salem, or in 1930s Germany, perhaps?

David Clews: , … he has to say potentially about that young girl. Mark did you see that young girl there talking about herself?

Mark Collett: I don’t think that’s a girl.

David Clews: What? Why not?

Mark Collett: I don’t think that’s a girl. Looks like a man to me.

David Clews: [laughter] No! No! Not, …

Mark Collett: I thought that’s a man.

David Clews: That’s a young, that’s just a young [word unclear] explorer.

Mark Collett: That is a man.

David Clews: Mr Collett, come on! Come on! Isn’t that a far-Right thing to say, sir?

Mark Collett: No. I think that’s a man. That’s definitely a man! I’m not buying into this. I’m not buying into this! That is a man! That’s a man and nothing’s gonna change that. [laughter]

David Clews: Well, first of all, Mark pleasure to have you on the show. Thanks very much for coming over. Is Laura going to be joining us as well?

Mark Collett: I believe she should be. Yes, yes, she should be joining very soon. I’ve sent her the link. So she should be over in a couple of minutes.

David Clews: Great. Well I’ll make a wee bit of space for her in the show Mark. For people that aren’t familiar with yourself and your work can you give us a brief introduction please?

Mark Collett: Well I am, in fact, a man, as in a real man! So [laughter] that’s the start there. No nonsense for me on that.

Now I’ve been involved in nationalist politics for 20 plus years now. I lead a group called Patriotic Alternative. I have been a content creator since 2016. I used to have a YouTube channel with about 100,000 subscribers, many videos with hundreds of thousands of views. Some videos with over a million views on them. I was very popular on that platform. But I was deplatformed. I also have a channel now on Odysee, on Dlive. I have a channel on BitChute. And I’m also on Telegram and GAB..

Because I’ve been de-platformed on Facebook. I’ve been deplatformed on Twitter. I’ve been deplatformed on Instagram. I’m actually banned from having social media accounts now. And we are living in this sort of draconian, tyrannical, world where unfortunately if you say anything regardless of whether it’s factual, or not, if it is not in lockstep with the current moronic, liberal, thinking, then unfortunately you lose your right to free speech.

And this affects everyone, from people down at my lowly level, right up to people who used to be President. So this is a wide reaching problem, and it’s only going to get worse.

And the fact is if people don’t do something about it now. And we’re also we’re already quite far down this road. But if people are just talking about this now we’re going to face real issues.

I’m just going to make sure Laura, …

David Clews: Laura is Mark.

Mark Collett: Excellent.

David Clews: Good evening Laura. How are you?

Laura Towler: Hi! Good evening! Am I muted? Can you hear me?

David Clews: No I could hear you loud and clear.

Laura Towler: Very good. Thanks for having me.

David Clews: My pleasure. Mark was just giving us an introduction to himself and his work. As well Laura, the floor is yours. For people that don’t know you, do you want to tell us a bit about your background, as well, please?

Laura Towler: Yeah. I just need to say something before we begin. I do have a newborn baby. And she’s going through a growth spot at the moment and she’s wanting feeding all the time. So if she cries, there’s a good chance that I might have to just nip off, or turn my camera off to feed her. I hope that’s okay.

David Clews: I was actually going to say to you congratulations on your baby. What’s her name?

Laura Towler: It’s Catherine. Yeah, she’s three months, three months last week.

David Clews: Catherine the Great! A good Russophile name then! You’re showing your true colours there, aren’t you?

Laura Towler: Yeah [laughter] yeah, I am. So introductions I guess, for people that don’t know me. I work with Mark at Patriotic Alternative. I’m the deputy leader of PA. And we’ve been going since September 2019. We’re a nationalist organization based in the United Kingdom. And we currently have around 16,000 supporters. We’re a community building and activism group.

So it means that we obviously have the community building side of things, where we’re creating a network of people. And then we also have the activism side, which is raising awareness of the issues that we think are really important.

And the biggest issue that we think is the most important issue is demographics. And the fact that British people are on track to becoming a minority in our own country.

So yeah, I guess I’m kind of Mark’s right-hand man, or right-hand woman [Mark laughs]!

David Clews: Right-hand person I think will work.

Laura Towler: Yeah [laughter]! We’ve got to use the correct language in today’s culture lol!

David Clews: Mark was talking about the issue of deplatforming and censorship. We started UNN four years ago. When we started UNN there really wasn’t anything called deplatforming. There really wasn’t. The first big one was Andrew Anglin. What was it, Stormfront?

[05:21]

Mark Collett: Daily Stormer.

David Clews: Yeah. The Daily Stormer a that that was the first big one, like the first big deplatforming. And what they said was:

“Well look, we’ll get rid of the real extremists with the real vile stuff.”

But a lot of people said at the time:

“Well, it’s a slippery slope.”

And then Britain First were huge on Facebook. And I remember at the time, … Testing. Yep. Sorry my mic is going in and out! [Mark chuckles] First got deplatformed. And they did say:

“We didn’t want to do it.”

And then there was Tommy Robinson as well, was a huge deplatforming. And now, here we are in 2022. And it’s open season on everything! Like no one’s safe on any major social media platform at all.

And if you look at the trajectory, where are we to be in say five years, Laura, in terms of deplatforming?

Laura Towler: I’d dread to think. Yeah. I mean, I’ve had pretty much everything shut down. I’ve been suspended from YouTube. I had around 60,000 followers on there. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, PayPal.

When I set up my business, Grandma Towler’s, which is a tea and coffee shop, I had a landing page on Shopify. They suspended me. I sent out an email to my subscriber list on Mailchimp. They suspended me.

I’ve had two bank accounts shut down, personal bank accounts. Don’t use them for any political stuff at all. It’s just my personal account which I used to pay my rent and, you know, pay my bills and that kind of stuff. Santander and Monza have shut my accounts down.

Mark had five bank accounts shut down. My husband, Sam, has had his Monza bank account shut down. So it’s just relentless.

I mean, I worry that it’s gonna be utilities in the future? You know, is your gas and electric company gonna say:

“No, sorry, we’re not working with you. We’re a private business.”

But the issue is the fact that they seem to be trying to push us towards a cashless society. And I think that with the Covid-19 stuff that really did sort of push us in that direction, because there were a lot of businesses that were saying:

“No. You can’t use cash.”

And if they shut down your bank account and they take away your ability to operate as a citizen in Britain, if you can’t use cash, how are you going to function? Do, you know what I mean? So. It’s a really scary prospect. And I think it’s something that we need to continue raising awareness about. But Mark might have something to say about it, because he’s had it even worse than me.

Mark Collett – Patriotic Alternative Autumn Update with Laura – Oct 2, 2020 — Transcript

[Mark Collett, Leader of Patriotic Alternative, and Laura Towler, Deputy Leader, gives us an Autumn update. Laura and Mark start with a brief chat about the tragic-comedy debate that Mark had the previous night with a rambling, can’t sit still, juggling, African-American guy in Florida.

Laura then describes in detail the harassment from the “State” through its proxies, for her pro-White, pro-British nationalism. About a month ago, without warning, her bank card stopped functioning and her bank, Santander, eventually informed her that her account had been terminated. Mark also had his bank account made inactive.

He then describes how the Electoral Commission has been dragging the chain, using one excuse after the other, in permitting PA from being registered as a political party.

— KATANA]

Mark Collett: Well I’ve lost a lot of things. I’ve obviously lost all my social media accounts. And people will say with your social media accounts:

“Oh well, boohoo! It’s only Facebook, Twitter, etc.”

But losing your social media not only stops you getting your message out, … I mean, my Twitter account was huge I had 60,000 followers on Twitter. And I would get around 12 million Twitter impressions every month. So I’m reaching 12 million people. That disappears!

Now that not only affects my ability to reach people. But it also affects my ability to connect with other people, with other content creators. Losing your Facebook not only affects your ability to reach people politically, but you lose all your photos, you lose all your connections. You lose contact with people that you’ve known from years, people you might be to school with, old friends, people you don’t have their phone number. They’re all gone to you. You’re basically cut out.

These services also connect you to a variety of other things. Everywhere asks you to sign in with Facebook. Everywhere asks you to sign in with an existing social network. Every place you’ve done that is then cut off from you! Your progress is lost in a number of different ventures, or other apps that you used Facebook to sign in with. This affects your life in a number of ways.

But it goes on to affect your life even worse when you start to lose bank accounts. I’ve lost five actual bank accounts and been kicked off one crypto-currency exchange.

And the crypto-currency exchange was particularly galling, because they froze my assets for months, and months, and months! Meaning that I couldn’t trade, I couldn’t sell them when they’re at a high.

And then, when you finally do get them back they might not even be worth half of what the original investment was. Now, all of this presents real real problems.

But after having lost five bank accounts – one business account, and four personal accounts – you start to realize that you’re running out of options. You’re opening bank accounts. But they’re shutting them down as quickly as you can open them. In an increasingly cashless society, there is nothing you can do.

But that also disrupts your mortgage payment. It disrupts your ability to go and buy shopping. It disrupts your ability to buy food for your family. It disrupts your ability to do things like go to the gym.

[10:03]

I remember when my first bank account was frozen, before they closed it. It stopped all my direct debits going out so I couldn’t go to the gym. I was getting letters from the bank. I was getting notifications. My phone got cut off, because obviously my direct debit for my phone went. I got bills for my broadband saying, you’ve not paid your broadband now. So you have to basically pay a fine now. You have to pay an additional sum, on top of this.

And this all puts huge amounts of pressure on you. And after five a bank account is being closed, you probably think you get used to it. But it’s still a real pain! You have to migrate everything. You have to speak to your bank. You have to move over your direct debits. And then you’re sat there wondering:

“Well, when will the next time, when will it be?”

And as Laura said, it won’t end with bank accounts. It will then move to utilities. When does your broadband company say:

“Well, we don’t like the messages you use our broadband to spread. We don’t think that’s appropriate.”

When’s it your phone company, when do they say:

“Well, we don’t like the conversations you have on our telephone network.”

This will only get worse, and worse, it will only affect more, and more, people. And people who aren’t screaming and shouting about this now, people who are sitting in silence maybe want to rethink their strategy. Because it will trickle down. It will start with people like myself and Laura.

I’ve lost more bank accounts than any other political activist in the UK. But, this will trickle down to other people.

And eventually if you do something as meaningless, and sort of innocuous, as misgendering someone on a social network, what’s the future for you? Maybe a knock on the door from the thought police? Maybe the loss of your bank accounts? Maybe your broadband being taken away? Who knows? This is a slippery slope to something that would make the Soviet Commissars blush!

[11:55]

David Clews: Yeah. And I mean, don’t take this the wrong way, but the argument for why it was kind of done to you guys, … Look I’m not saying I agree with this, but your opponents would say that:

“There is no place for fascism. There is no place for hate!”

And they are going out of their way to destroy you, to give you no platform. So are they not being successful at doing that, then?

Mark Collett: Well, anyone who says that, but equally supported Covid lockdown restrictions, which saw people not being able to say goodbye to loved ones that they’d lived with for decades. People not being able to invite grandma around to Christmas. People being arrested for going for walks in the park with their partner.

People who call us “fascists” are complete morons! Because the real threat here is not fascism. People who use the word “fascism” throw it around so liberally, probably don’t even understand what it means.

The real threat here is kind of a “technocratic communism”, which is closing on all sides. And basically the Covid lockdown laws granted Boris Johnson and the Conservatives more powers than any British monarch has ever enjoyed! These powers were unprecedented, when you look at British history!

Even people like William the Conqueror didn’t have the powers to control the conquered people of the land that he had just been victorious over. He had less power than Boris Johnson granted himself during Covid.

And that tells you exactly where we’re going. And this is going to be enforced on multiple levels. And people who throw around terms like fascism use it, not because it’s an actual genuine argument. But because the term “fascism” is just a silencing tactic, in the same way as the word “racism”, …

David Clews: Yeah.

Mark Collett: … Or racist, homophobe, homophobic, Islamophobic, you’re an Islamophobe! All these things are used to silence people and to prevent genuine debate.

David Clews: I mean, obviously I’m asking that as a leading question, because you look at Canada. You look what Justin Trudeau did. Single mothers, people who donated to a peaceful protest had their bank accounts removed from them. So it will come for everyone eventually. And that’s what people need to really waken up to.

And it is really that technocratic nightmare where people will be banned! They’ll be removed. But why Laura. Why do you think it’s speeded up, you know, especially within the last two, or three years?

Because as I said before that, there was an ability for people to have a debate. There was ability for people to, … And I don’t necessarily think this is all, … I mean, it’s mostly on the Right of the political spectrum, but it goes always, now like the Left is eating itself.

There was a woman’s event the other night that was being picketed. You know, it seems to just be a culture across everywhere. That if anybody steps slightly out of the acceptable Overton window, it just has to be crushed!

Laura Towler: Yeah it does seem to be accelerating really, faster. I mean, it was only a few years ago that we were allowed YouTube channels, and we were allowed to talk about demographics, and race, and stuff on YouTube. And then all of a sudden, of the last few years it’s gone so fast.

I mean, is it, because we’re a threat? Do they silence us and stop us, because we’re a threat? Is it because we’re making ground? And I mean that’s the only thing I can think of really. If we were irrelevant and we weren’t actually making any progress in real life, wouldn’t they just let us continue? Because they lie about us so much! And they have to misrepresent us in order to present a certain image of us to the public.

I mean, they’ll write an article about us and it will include something that Mark said 20 years ago. And then it will say something like:

“Laura once wrote an article where she said she didn’t like Winston Churchill.”

You know, something like that. They just recycle these same arguments about us again, and again, and again! But they don’t actually have anything genuinely bad to say about us, because we don’t do anything bad.

And I think do they misrepresent us and attack us so much, because they see us as a threat? And that’s the only reason that I can think of really. I mean, there is this big sort of like woke culture push, as well, isn’t there? If you’re getting attacked for, I don’t know, misgendering someone, or clapping too loud instead of, what is it, the Jazz Hands that you’re supposed to do now, instead of clapping, all that stuff. I mean, that is just ridiculous! I do think that is just a big push of woke culture.

Laura Towler – We Were Never Asked – Oct 24, 2019 — Transcript

[Laura Towler and a team of volunteers recently conducted a survey of over 2,000 White British on their opinion on the non-White invasion of Britain that has been occurring in ever greater numbers since the arrival of blacks on the SS Empire Windrush in 1948. The vast majority of White British have always been against this invasion and remain so today, as this survey confirms.

The British people have never been asked whether they wanted this invasion, for the simple reason that they would have rejected it out of hand. Instead, it has been imposed top-down by traitorous “political elite” scum that does the bidding of the (((Money Power))) with the agenda of “genociding” Whites — turning them into despised minorities in their countries — in order to bring about  a jewish “New World Order“.

— KATANA.]

But when it comes to demographics and race. I do think they are trying to silence genuine opposition to the system. And they want immigration. And then those of us that are publicizing the negative effects of immigration, it seems to be us that are getting attacked the most. So I think they just want to silence any criticism, really.

David Clews: I talk about this a lot. Someone like David Ike, for example, you know, who has throughout the last two years been proven pretty accurate.

When I was growing up David Ike was seen as a bit of a joke figure, almost. People would kind of laugh. But go and try and find David Ike on YouTube now. Go and try and find David Ike on Twitter. He likewise, he’s been banned everywhere as well.

And for me I think the two big catalysts were the Brexit vote and the election of Trump. I mean, obviously they didn’t turn out exactly how many intended. But what they did was they were a shock to the system. The establishment didn’t want them. And they said after that:

“Well we can’t allow these things to happen ever again.”

And, because that people aware through alternative media, through social media, they where they were winning the battle. So I think you’re right about that, Laura.

Laura Towler: Yeah, it’s interesting. Because, I mean, I’m personally not a fan of David. But I do wonder if certain people get banned, because they are a gateway to other people as well. And then when you look at some of the people who are maybe not necessarily talking about race and demographics in the way that we are, we often get told that people start off watching their content and then pass over to us.

So I wonder if they get banned, because they’re an effective gateway to other ideas which maybe the State don’t want people listening to, or adopting.

David Clews: Okay. Moving on slightly, I’ve got a question then for you Mark.

So you obviously you talk about race, demographics, and White people. Now over the last two years I’ve been very outspoken on Covid, on everything that happened. When I went to more ethnically homogeneous areas, … Again, I’m not seeing merits of this predominantly White areas. [chuckles] Unfortunately they were the most in love with the whole Covid scam, you know. They loved the masking. I would go up to Inverness.

So, and I’m being controversial here. Is the White race in this country even worth saving? [What a deplorable question! – Kat]

Mark Collett: Well that all depends, doesn’t it? You can be glib and say:

“Is the White race worth saving?”

But you’ve got to ask yourself:

“Would this country exist if it wasn’t for the White race?”

If you think that this country has any merits historically, or in the here and now, then you have to want the White race to survive. Because ultimately everything that made this country notable, everything that made this country great, everything that made this country what it was, was the fruit of people of European descent. It was the fruit of White Britons.

And to say:

“Is it worth saving?”

Well, that’s like saying:

“Is the country completely worthless? Is your country something you just want to throw away?”

Because a country really is defined by the people who built it. And if you want to get rid of the people who built this country, well you’re getting rid of what made this country what it is. And I personally think that White British people deserve a right to survive.

And I don’t really think that White British people are suicidal. I don’t think White British people have got to this point where they are going to become a minority in their own homeland by accident. This isn’t something that just came about by a series of unfortunate coincidences.

This is an absolutely structured and plotted attack on our people! Which has been led by the mainstream media, and those who have infiltrated our establishment who have completely reoriented our minds. Made us hate ourselves! Made us despise traditionalism! Forced a wedge between men and women!

And at the same time flooded this country with millions, upon millions, of non-White immigrants that the people of Britain never asked for, never wanted, and have repeatedly said at every opportunity they’ve had, that not only don’t they want this migration but they’d like to reverse it!

But that has never been presented to them as an option by either side of the illusory political divide.

[21:20]

David Clews: But again though. And I mean, you could argue there are nefarious elements. A lot of that is being done by other White people specifically White liberals. So this has been cs.

Mark Collett: Actually the media is overwhelmingly owned by jews. But you can say it’s White liberals if you want to hide from the issue.

David Clews: Well, in the UK, I mean, I understand in terms of America, …

Mark Collett: All the media in the world flows down from Hollywood, and the zionist elite who runs it. That’s the one I think. Look who owns Hollywood! Look who owns the American media! Look at the people who have been warping people’s minds since the 1960s! Look at the people behind the sexual revolution! Just type into Google list of jewish feminists. People behind Marxism, the people behind the Soviet death camps, the people behind the Holodomor, the people behind the Frankfurt School!

And you can keep hiding from this, you can keep saying:

“Oh well! But what if?”

There’s no:

“Oh wells, or what ifs.”

There is a problem here of an ethnic group being disproportionately over represented in these, what are fundamentally anti-White endeavours.

David Clews: Laura? Do you agree with that?

Laura Towler: Yeah, jews are nought point five [0.5] percent of the electorate in the United Kingdom, which is such a tiny amount. But if you look in the government they’re much more than nought point five percent.

If you look in the media. If you look in banking. If you look in Hollywood. If you look in charities and NGOs. NGOs which are ferrying refugees. Refugees over to the United Kingdom. Jews are much, much higher than 0.5 of the population.

So there is a huge over-representation there. But it’s “anti-semitic” to say that, isn’t it? It’s just a fact. There is a huge over-representation. And I think that we should be able to discuss these facts openly and honestly, without being scared away from them.

David Clews: What would, we’ve had people on, of course, I’ve had someone on Covid. He was from Israel. And what he would maybe argue. And a lot of jewish people argue though is, …

That you’re saying that jewish people would think with one homogenous brain, when if you look at a country like Israel, there’s hundreds of political parties. Do they all have the same political persuasion? Are all these people in positions of media and power, are they all politically aligned on everything?

Mark Collett: No! No one’s saying that. That’d be a ridiculous point to make.

The jews are not all one hive mind, they don’t all think alike. And they often have disputes amongst themselves. But what makes them unique, and what makes them stand out from every other ethnic group on the planet, is they have the most extreme form of in-group preference, the world has ever known.

But not only do they advocate for their own in-group preference, and their own people, not only do they have an explicit ethnostate in the Middle East, they are the people who push for multiculturalism in every Western nation!

Not only do they push for multiculturalism in every Western nation, they also push for hate speech laws, they also push for a range of anti-free speech laws, which stops people speaking out against their own racial demise, while strengthening their own racial group in the Middle East.

And whilst they’re not all one homogenous group to the point where they all think exactly the same thing, what they do is they defend themselves from criticism. And whilst they have disagreements within their own family, so to speak, they are very, very opposed to anyone outside of their family criticizing anyone within the family!

So whilst you will find different jewish persuasions, if you criticize any particular jewish group, other jewish groups whether they agree with that group, or not, will come to their defense. And that is the key here. They do treat themselves like family. They do look after one another. And they do, at the same time, wish for other racial groups not to do the same.

So you have people like the British Board of Deputies here in the UK, which is an extremely powerful jewish group, and they advocate for the State of Israel. They think the state of Israel is an important thing. And they advocate for the British government to support the State of Israel.

Now that’s very interesting. Because the State of Israel is explicitly an ethnostate. It is for the jewish people! They have an ethno-state law. They have a nation-state law enshrining that in law! Yet at the same time the British Board of Deputies wants to welcome refugees, non-Whites, people from the Middle East, people from sub-Saharan Africa, here to the UK..

So why would a group of people on one hand advocate for themselves to get an ethnostate, but want the people of Britain to have the very opposite! Why indeed?

[26:18]

David Clews: Would they not argue that, because of the experiences they’ve faced in history, being around the world, persecution, etc., that they’re looking out for themselves? I mean, should, …

Patrick Grimm – Poor-Little-Meees!

[Patrick Grimm wrote extensively during 2007 to 2009 exposing and warning the world about the dangers and machinations of organized jewry and its nation wrecking activities.

Here he explores the unbelievable deceit and hypocrisy of organized jewry as it projects, through its control over the media, the image of being a paragon of virtue and innocence, unjustly persecuted, when organized jewry is, in actual fact, the very opposite, the greatest mass murderer of the 20th century, and now beyond — KATANA.]

Mark Collett: They haven’t really been persecuted have they? I mean, they haven’t really been persecuted have they?

[Added Image] Major expulsions of jews since 250 AD. Note that jews were expelled from England for about 350 years, from 1290 onwards. (click image to enlarge)

They’ve been thrown out of 109 different countries. But if you get thrown out of 109 different pubs, is it because all of the pubs are big nasty meanie heads that don’t like you, or is it, because you probably went round causing lots of trouble in different pubs?

Yeah, it’s probably not the fault of the pubs is it? It’s probably that you’re a little bit of a problem.

David Clews: But then, what they are doing not the right thing to do? Which is to collectivise, which is to look out for each other, …

Mark Collett: Well, should we collectivise then? Should we collectivise along racial lines?

David Clews: Well that’s your perspective.

Mark Collett: No! No! I’m asking you a question. I’m asking you a question. Should we collectivise?

David Clews: I personally, I’m not ashamed to be White. [Even to say such a thing shows how deep the brainwashing agenda has gotten – Kat] And I think that homogenous societies work better. And I think, …

Mark Collett: So yes, we should?

David Clews: Umm.

Mark Collett: Or are you going to get a sore bottom sitting on that fence all night?

David Clews: No, I’m not. I mean, I’m not ideologically rigid with my politics. I mean, my politics have changed quite a lot. But I just, whilst we are still a majority in a majority White country will people think that way?

Mark Collett: No! You’re not answering the question! I’m saying should we organize, like other racial groups do, and basically defend our own interests and stop our culture and our heritage being replaced? Do you think, does David Clews think it would be a good thing for White Britons to become a minority in Britain?

David Clews: No. I don’t think it would be a good thing. I don’t think it would, …

Mark Collett: So then we should collectivize and stand together to prevent ourselves attaining minority status? Because you and I both well know that if we attain minority status here in the UK, we’re not going to get one of those special plaques to put on our doors that say:

“Oh! We’re a minority! So we get special treatment now!”

We’ll be a hated minority. We will be people who will be victimized, we will be beaten, we will be treated even worse than we’re treated now! We’re treated as second-class citizens when we’re a majority!

So what’s going to happen when we’re a minority? It’s going to be hell on earth for us! And if anyone doubts that, just look at how White people are already treated in cities where they have become an ethnic minority. They’re treated terribly!

David Clews: Yeah. And look, I get the whole argument of differences between ethnic nationalism, civic nationalism. As I said, I don’t particularly see myself on either side. I understand both arguments.

But, you know what you guys are arguing and talking about, whilst in the community that we have, how would these arguments play out amongst Joe normie?

I mean, I know you’ve produced graphics. I think most people would agree that they don’t want to see Britain becoming a non-majority White country. But when you dig a bit deeper are people actually prepared, as Laura says, to make a stand on that?

[30:04]

Laura Towler: Well the majority of people do agree with us with regards to demographics. We carried out a piece of activism in August 2019 called “We Were Never Asked”. And we surveyed a couple of thousand people asking them how they felt about White British people becoming a minority in the United Kingdom by 2066.

And only 4.8 percent of people said that they thought it was a good thing. 7 out of 10 people said that they thought it was a bad thing. And then it was 26.26% of people who said “no strong feelings”. But, because we did the survey face-to-face in the public some of those people were scared to answer the question, or some people just said that they didn’t believe us. So they ticked “no strong feelings”..

So we know that the majority of people, 7 out of 10 people, do not want to become a minority in their own homeland, in their own country. And that means that seven out of ten people do not have a single politician representing their views at all.

So I think that our ideas are very palatable to the British public. And what we need to do is present solutions which we have done through Patriotic Alternative. We have a 20-Point Plan which has a voluntary repatriation scheme.

I actually spoke about that at the second PA conference. I gave a 30-minute speech on how we would implement voluntary repatriation in a completely humane way. I can’t see how anybody could disagree with it on an ethical line, because there’s nothing extreme, we’re not forcing anybody to do anything.

Laura Towler – My Patriotic Alternative Spring 2020 Conference Speech – Mar 22, 2020 — Transcript

[Laura Towler, Deputy Leader of Patriotic Alternative gives a very informative  speech at the spring 2020 Conference, on the need for repatriation, forced and voluntary, of non-Whites in Britain, to eventually bring White British people back to being the overwhelming majority of people in Britain.

— KATANA]

But I think. What we need to do really is change the culture within Britain, because we have a culture at the moment where we’re taught to hate ourselves.

One of my YouTube videos before I got suspended was when I interviewed a 15 year old school boy. And he told me some horrible things that they’ve been taught in the education system. On Saint George’s Day their headmaster gave them an assembly on reasons why they should feel ashamed to be English. I mean, this is the kind of stuff that we need to stop. We need to instil a sense of pride in our people again.

And then I think once we change the culture the rest of the solutions will fit into place. But we do have solutions at PA. We have political solutions and then we also have community-based solutions as well, which would include stepping back from the system and becoming as self-sufficient as possible.

David Clews: But again I’m just trying to get my head around though. But how would you deal with a significant amount of people in this country who are White and who are highly liberal? And they tend to infest Twitter with FBPE on their bio and remain Flagsmart. And now you create, …

Mark Collett: So I can answer this very easily.

David Clews: How would you deal with this?

Mark Collett: What we’ll do, is we’ll say London is a wonderful, diverse, multicultural, utopia. And all people who like multiculturalism can go and live among them. And they can go and live in that utopia and surely they’ll be better off and happy for it.

And then what we’ll say is, people who don’t like multicultural utopias can go to a nice White area. Now obviously I’m being facetious.

But the point I’m making is quite clear. That most of these White liberals who claim multiculturalism is the best thing since sliced bread, don’t live in multicultural areas. And when they do live in a multicultural city like London, they live in a gated community. The people who are enforcing this, the people who are pushing this upon us, and the people who are its biggest cheerleaders, are those who never experience it! And that should be a clue to the actual workability of this system, when it’s biggest cheerleaders don’t actually indulge in the poison that they are promoting!

And we talk about people living in ivory towers. And that is where most White liberals actually do live. They live in places where they don’t experience the fruits of the diversity that they claim to love so much.

Laura Towler: Yeah, but what these people do, if I might just jump in, is they tend to vote for refugees and immigration. And then an area becomes really diverse. And then they operate White flight and move away from the area. And they usually give an example like:

“I wanted to move somewhere that had good schools.”

But it just basically means a Whiter area. And then they moved to a White area where there’s no immigration and no crime and it’s absolutely lovely. And then they start advocating for refugees in that area as well.

And just to give an example I live in Yorkshire. And the most woke sort of Left-wing, pro-open borders, pro-LGBT, place in Yorkshire is York. And York is actually 95% White, or it was at the last census. So it’s these really White areas that are incredibly, you know, they want the refugees and they want the immigration. But they don’t have to experience any of it themselves.

David Clews: But again though, like, up until about 1997 like, … Okay here’s a question. I’m just interested. Do you believe in any non-White immigration to the UK? Should that be allowed?

[35:02]

Laura Towler: Are we talking new people or the people who are here staying?

David Clews: People who are here staying. Because like obviously, … And I mean, I know this was a big issue in the 1980s with like the BNP, and John Tyndall, that said that people from Europe would be welcome here. I mean, would you be open to people coming from Europe based on their skin colour?

Mark Collett: Look! The fact is, …

Laura Towler: We should be as self-sufficient as possible as a country. So we shouldn’t be saying like:

“Oh, we need to fill these jobs in the NHS, or these fruit pickers. Let’s ship in a load of immigrants!”

We should be as self-sufficient as possible. But if it turns out that there is somebody who can benefit the country greatly, I don’t know if there’s some brain surgeon, or something that can perform some activity that no one else can do, then it’s a benefit for us for that person to move to the country. But we believe that immigration should be so small. And it shouldn’t be shipping people over to do stuff that we should do. We should be putting our people first.

With regards to the people who are already here, we don’t support forcibly deporting anybody from the United Kingdom, apart from two groups of people. The first is illegals. And the second is foreign criminals. We only believe in voluntary repatriation.

David Clews: Okay.

Mark Collett: Let me further this.

David Clews: Yeah.

Mark Collett: Let me further Laura’s point. There are people who are distinct and different from the English, the Irish, the Scots, and the Welsh, but are much closer to us than other groups.

So, for example, French, Germans, Swedes these people have very similar cultures to us, similar religions, their language is similar, they have a similar history to us. Yet you have people then from say Somalia, Nigeria, Iraq, Syria. These people are very different to us. Not just on a racial level, but on a cultural level, on the way they view the world.

So if you have say a Swedish family you’re obviously White. And they come and live here. After a couple of generations they will have completely assimilated into our way of life, and you wouldn’t be able to look at them and say:

“Oh look! They’re Swedes! They’re different to us!”

However, what we are doing here is we are importing people from all over the world who have the greatest numbers of differences with us possible! Who are never going to assimilate. Then bringing them in the numbers where they can create their own little version of wherever they came from, import their culture to the exclusion of ours, and effectively completely terraform an area.

This creates a situation where you go to parts of Britain. And they don’t resemble Britain. They don’t resemble Britain racially, ethnically, culturally, religiously! They have no relation to what this country actually is meant to be. Actually what it was. And this creates a complete transformation of our society!

So essentially what we are saying is we would like White Britons to remain a super majority. Illegal immigrants must go! Criminals who have come here and settled, they must go, because they’ve committed crimes in our country.

And we want to ensure that anyone who did come to our country after that was somebody who was more compatible with our way of life. But even if we did allow people in, you still wouldn’t want swamping numbers of people coming here.

Even if you did let Swedes come into the country you wouldn’t want 10 million Swedes coming here and setting up a new city, or taking over an entire city for themselves. And, you know, pushing out British people, or erasing our culture.

It’s got to be about ensuring that we remain dominant in our ancestral homelands. And our culture, our heritage, our way of life, our traditions, also remain dominant. And that our children, that our grandchildren, learn those culture, learn that history, learn those traditions, and that we pass down the things that made us strong and the things that made us great. We don’t want to be severed from our roots.

David Clews: And again, I’m just making this point I’m not saying I necessarily agree with this. But is it not just the situation in 2022 there is a karmic rebalance taking place? Because if this had been 150 years ago people from our country would have been going all around the world and importing our values, creating our own places. Is this just not ying and yang that happens over society? Are we just not in a, …

[39:51]

Mark Collett: So basically you’re saying multiculturalism is terrible then. Because what you’re saying is we’re being punished for the sins of our fathers.

David Clews: Well could that not be what it is? Because look at the Right, …

Mark Collett: So you are saying multiculturalism is terrible and a punishment, then?

David Clews: I don’t think multiculturalism has been a success. I don’t think, …

Mark Collett: I’m just making sure we’re on the right page. So are we being punished for the sins of our fathers? Now the answer to that is very interesting. Because firstly, as I said, that takes the point that multiculturalism is terrible, and is a punishment.

But what you have to remember is I’m no big fan of the British Empire. I think the British Empire was greatly flawed. I don’t believe in it. I think it was historically a mistake. However, the British Empire gave far more than it ever took. That is a fact!

Wake Up UK: Okay. Jeremy and Mark, you both hear me okay? All right. So we’ve got Mark Collett from Patriotic Alternative. Jeremy Poole who streams once a week on Wake Up UK and has his own channel on YouTube. Are you on your third channel now Jeremy?

Jeremy Poole: I haven’t got a channel on YouTube anymore. [chuckling]

Wake Up UK: There’s something you’ve got in common already you and Mark!

Jeremy Poole: Yeah!

Wake Up UK: Starting with YouTube!

Jeremy Poole: Yeah.

Wake Up UK: You [word unclear] to play. So we’ve come together tonight have a little bit of a debate discussion regarding ethno-nationalism. I know you two has spoken during the week to hammer out what you’re going to be discussing and talking about. So I’m going to hand over to you two. And I’ll stay muted to the very end.

And we haven’t got a moderator tonight. I don’t think we need a moderator. You’re both very gentlemanly in the way that you handling yourselves. So, I’m sure you won’t be screaming and shouting at each other, not like some people do. And if there’s any blood on the dance floor we’ll mop it up.

Over to you two. I think we’re gonna do opening speeches, aren’t we? And as Mark’s our guest, we invite Mark to go first if he’d like to.

Mark Collett: Well. Thank you very much. Are you sure the stream’s working?

Wake Up UK: Let me just double check it. It should be, …

Mark Collett: Because I don’t see any video on the stream.

Wake Up UK: There’s a delay. But it is working. But it’s a long, long, delay. But I’m looking at YouTube now. We are going out here delay between OBS and YouTube.

Mark Collett: Okay. So you can hear me loud and clear?

Wake Up UK: Yeah. Are you looking in the side chat? Let’s get a thumbs up in the side chat to make sure they can hear. So if you’re in YouTube in the side chat give us a thumbs up, or just say yes if you can hear.

Mark Collett: I think we’re live. I think we are live.

Wake Up UK: Yeah.

Mark Collett: So would you like me to begin then?

Wake Up UK: Over to you. I’m going to be muted. To the end.

Mark Collett: Well firstly before I give my opening statement, thank you to Jason and Jeremy for inviting me on. And thank you to everyone who’s joined us tonight. My name is Mark Collett. And I am about to make the case for ethno-nationalism.

A nation is not just a patch of land. A nation is a community of people formed on the basis of a common ethnicity culture, common traditions, and a shared history. A nationalist is someone who identifies with one’s own nation and supports its interests. In simple terms nations are made up of ethnically similar people. And nationalists by their correct definition are those who support their nation, and by extension put the interests of their own ethnic group first.

The idea of civic nationalism is in itself contradictory, because civic nationalists fundamentally reject the idea that a nation is a community of people whose characteristics include a shared ethnicity.

Nationalism is ethno-nationalism. It is a love for one’s own people. It is a sense of in-group preference. It is the belief in that we, as a distinct and individual group of people, have the right to exist, and the right to control our own destiny within our own ancestral homelands.

[05:01]

And the primary influence that threatens the existence of people of European descent today – and that includes the indigenous people of the British Isles – is multiculturalism! Multiculturalism is the belief that a number of distinct cultural, or ethnic groups, can coexist within one society. The belief that multicultural societies can function effectively and achieve long-term stability is at best misguided, and at worst this belief is a genocidal lie pushed upon people of European descent in order to destroy historic European nations and replace White people in their ancestral homelands!

Multiculturalism has never worked! But not only have multicultural societies always broken down, and ended in violence, bloodshed, and war. These multicultural societies have never existed naturally. They have always been created as social experiments by those with vested interests. And critical to this debate, multicultural Britain is not a natural state! It has been engineered!

In 1950 there were fewer than 20,000 non-Whites in Britain. The vast majority of whom were first generation immigrants. In other words, they weren’t even born here. These people made up just 0.04 percent of the population. By 2011, the time of the last census, the non-White population of Britain had risen to over 8 million, and accounted for around 13 of the population. To put this into perspective in just over 60 years the non-White population of Britain has grown over 400 fold!

This is a social experiment on an unprecedented level! And to put it into historical perspective, more people arrive in Britain each year under the current government, than arrived here between 1066 – the last time we were successfully invaded – and 1939, the beginning of the Second World War.

Mass immigration – which is the means by which this multicultural society has been artificially created – is not natural. It is a post-war phenomenon that was completely manufactured, managed, and accelerated, by the establishment for political purposes.

And the result of this mass immigration and multiculturalism is that White Britons – the ethnic people of these islands – will be a minority by 2066, if these trends are not reversed! This means that the indigenous people of these islands are being systematically replaced, and displaced, in a managed fashion. Something that under the UN definition amounts to genocide!

If this continues and our people become a scattered, atomized, and isolated, minority, our nation will cease to exist! Our culture will be erased, our traditions will be lost. And the people who made these lands their home since the end of the last Ice Age will ultimately cease to exist!

The British Isles, as a cluster of islands that lay between the Atlantic Ocean and the North Sea, will indeed endure. But if that is all you care about then you’re not a nationalist! Our nation is more than a collection of rocks in the sea. We are a distinct and individual people. And as nationalists we must secure an existence for our people and a future for our children!

Thank you.

Jeremy Poole: Hello. Thank you Mark! Pleasure to hear from you. Yeah. Now I’m Jeremy Poole. Those who were on Wake Up UK will know what I stand for, and where I come from, because I say it. And those who follow me on BitChute, other channels, also know it.

I do not believe in ethnic-nationalism! I believe in civic-nationalism, as opposed to ethnic-nationalism. And I’m going to explain why here.

The main reason is civic-nationalism can act as a shared aspiration for all of the community. Civic-nationalism has a political, rather than ethnic base. A nation of equal rights. And I mean, equal rights for everyone. Patriotism and common citizenship for all those who prescribe to the nation.

And for all those who aspire to be part of that nation. Britain has to be aspirational! We need people to aspire to be British! British people and people who want to come and make the nation greater. The people we allow in need to come, because they want to be part of a great nation. Not, because they want to change. Because they want to, in the words of John F Kennedy:

“Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!”

[10:01]

And sovereignty is with the people in civic-nationalism. Whereas in ethno-nationalism it’s against a lot of the people. It’s for the totalitarian elite that control. I don’t want apartheid! I don’t want exclusion for Britain! Britain has to be a country that people aspire to in the long term, believe in it. And the Britishness will grow. It’ll grow and get back into the top position in the world. Quote, not a great person, but Mussolini said about race:

“It’s a feeling. Not a reality!”

95% at least, nothing will ever make me believe that biologically pure races can be shown to exist today. National pride has no need of the delirium of race!

Today I hope to open a few minds and win a few hearts as well. Ethno-nationalism is motivated by, us as Mark just said, from the last Ice Age, by primordial feelings, and civic nationalism, more rational and universal principles. Civic-nationalism can take us to a far, far, better place.

Ethnic-nationalism and any mass group; communism, fascism, neoliberalism, Black Lives Matter, they all aim to divide people by groups, and create in-groups and out-groups. And to have an in-group you have to have an out-group. And the out-groups will always come back and fight back. Division, hate, and killing! However well-intentioned. And I know from Mark’s speech it’s the opposite of what he wants. We both want peace and happiness.

But what I do not want for my kids is division! What I want for my kids is a good life where they can be brought up in peace around them. And we start by discussing this today, I’m in no way agreeing with Mark’s position. But that’s the point of civic nationality, that we can discuss things. And we can debate, rather than exclude. And that’s me for today. Mark, back to you. Thank you for listening.

Mark Collett: Well, [chuckling] ethnicity and nationalism are tied. And a distinct individual people isn’t an idea. If you bring millions, … What you’re basically saying is that being British, … And being British you can be a British citizen, but only a small group of people can be indigenous to these islands. And they are, …

Jeremy Poole: Britishness and indigenous Britain, that’s two two separate things for me.

Mark Collett: So let me ask you a simple question. Would you be happy for the indigenous people of these islands to become a minority and be replaced by, let’s say Zulus? If all the Zulus coming here – who were replacing the indigenous people – all wave little plastic flags, drank English Breakfast tea, sang God Save the Queen, and wore three-piece suits and bowler hats, would you be happy with that?

Jeremy Poole: Well, one, that’s not going to happen. But secondly if people come, …

Mark Collett: No, no, that is happening! That is happening! A minority by 2066.

Jeremy Poole: I could completely disagree on that. That, following the overpopulation and demographic models that you look at. And I could quite easily look at those and take:

“Lies, damn lies, and statistics.”

And say:

“Okay, there are other solutions to that apart from stopping people.”

I think we should stop the boats, slow the people coming in and only have people that are necessary coming in. No question on that, Mark. I’ve got no question on that.

You have to give people something to lose! People in this country, give them the feelings of being British. And when they start to feel more British, they have less children. History teaches us this.

You just take the United States of America when the Irish went over, they had massive families, and people hated them. They didn’t want them. No Irish in the bars. And then when they got accepted in the society, their population growth went down and they became part of society.

When the Italians went over the same thing happened. And it happens over, and over, again. It takes time. Everything takes time. Populations grow, they expand, they go down. But, populations change. We cannot just ring fence that and say:

“I want my family to continue and my country to continue.”

But I think. The best way to do it is not just to box us all up and pretend this world is not getting smaller, and there’s not more people on it.

We have to go out there and be part of the world. And that’s the only way Britishness is going to grow! Not by hiding away and trying to just protect ourselves in a little section for ourselves. No! That’s not how the Celts, … You talk about from the Ice Age that’s not true. Because the Celts came from Turkey, from central Asia, well before that.

Mark Collett: Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! [chuckling] You’re doing what every liberal does. You’re not giving an answer, you’re talking a lot of emotive nonsense.

Jeremy Poole: I did give an answer!

Mark Collett: You’ve not made a single salient point. And you’re also denying one of the most fundamental things that’s happening. In the past there has been small amounts of immigration into the British Isles.

And the last time we were successfully invaded was 1066. But all of these people were very, very similar to us. They were of the same racial group, overwhelmingly the same racial group! They had a culture which was very similar to ours. They had a very similar, or the same religion, or were coming here, because they have the same religious beliefs.

Jeremy Poole: It’s not true though, is it? The Vikings came with the Norse gods.

Mark Collett: Are you more similar to someone who is indigenous to Sweden, France, or Germany, or are you more similar to someone who is indigenous from Somalia?

Jeremy Poole: Just taking your point that they came with the same religion. No, they didn’t! The religion of the islands of Britain then, was not Christianity. It was not Viking gods. They came with different religions, completely different religions! And the world was much smaller then.

Mark Collett: I thought you said the world was getting smaller now?

Jeremy Poole: It is smaller now, but in smaller sections then. You lived in much smaller communities. So they came from, in terms of relativity, much further away to travel from Norway to Britain then, was much more difficult than traveling from Spain.

Mark Collett: Look! I’ve asked you two simple questions Jeremy! Would you be happy for the indigenous people of these islands to ultimately be a minority, and Africans to be a majority, if they all wore their bowler hats and sang, …

Jeremy Poole: I don’t think that is a question. I think you’re framing an argument! You’re framing an argument.

Mark Collett: Would you be happy?

Jeremy Poole: Well I wouldn’t be happy, because it’s not going to happen! It’s not happening.

Mark Collett: [chuckling] You think demographers, leading demographers, say that the indigenous people of these islands, White Britons – the people on the census who are defined as White Britons – will be a minority by 2066, if current demographics continue!

Jeremy Poole: If! It’s a big “if”! There’s an “if”! Take the “if” out and tell me the facts! Without “if” there’s no “facts”.

Mark Collett: You’re not answering [chuckling] the question! This is typical, …

Jeremy Poole: I am!

Mark Collett: This is typical of somebody who is either a fraud, or a coward! And you are being cowardly! You won’t answer the question.

Jeremy Poole: Right. Yeah, so you’re now going into personal attacks, … If, you said if!

Mark Collett: If demographics continue at the current rate, …

Jeremy Poole: Well I say demographics won’t continue! If demographics don’t continue, then it won’t happen. Am I right?

Mark Collett: If they continue, …

Jeremy Poole: And if they don’t?

Mark Collett: , … Would you be happy, … If they don’t continue I’ll be happy!

Jeremy Poole: I said I’ll, …

Mark Collett: If Britons remain a majority in Britain, the indigenous people remain a majority, …

Jeremy Poole: I’ve answered that question if you listen. I said I won’t. I said I won’t. But I don’t think it would happen. I did answer the question.

Mark Collett: You didn’t answer the question!

Jeremy Poole: I think you can go back and say, I said I won’t be very happy, but it won’t happen! I did answer that question.

Mark Collett: So you wouldn’t be happy for White people to be a minority in Britain?

Jeremy Poole: I think “Britishness” will be in a majority, but White people won’t be in a minority. But I wouldn’t be happy if that happened, but it won’t happen.

Mark Collett: So why wouldn’t you be happy if White people, … So if White people were to become a minority, why wouldn’t you be happy?

Jeremy Poole: Because that is the Britain. And I don’t believe it will! My belief is that Britain can be with all nations! It can be with all colours! And Britishness can grow like that. It can grow.

So Mark, you can push along this line as much as you want. But, …

Mark Collett: I’m not going to push along this line, because that was the first thing, the first thing, …

Jeremy Poole: Wait! Wait!

Mark Collett: You didn’t answer that question.

Jeremy Poole: No, I would like to say to you, so you ignore history! You ignore the fact that demographics don’t follow. Once people settle and become richer demographics don’t follow the same line. So that “if”, it’s just pushing a situation that is near impossible to happen. Because demographics, when people get richer, when people get settled, they don’t have the big families. It’s been shown in almost every country in the Western world!

Mark Collett: That isn’t true!

Jeremy Poole: You’re just throwing out, …

Mark Collett: That isn’t true at all.

Jeremy Poole: No? So what happened in America?

Mark Collett: If you look at Muslims in the UK, Muslims come to the UK, they bring their wives over from other parts of the world. And they have absolutely huge families! You go to Juesberry [sp], you go to Rotherham, you go to Telford, you go to Bradford. These people have huge families! They are growing very, very rapidly. And their societies are basically societies, …

[20:00]

Jeremy Poole: So you won’t answer what I said now? I said, look at history. I said look at history and say when they become richer and become part of the society they move to, …

Mark Collett: I have answered, …

Jeremy Poole: When they become richer, they have smaller families.

Mark Collett: I answered that question.

Jeremy Poole: No you didn’t! You were talking 10 years. You’re talking 20 years! I’m talking hundred years!

Mark Collett: Yeah, I’m answering what you’ve said. People who came, …

Jeremy Poole: In America, …

Mark Collett: People who came to the UK historically, were people who were racially and culturally similar to us. And they assimilated, because they were similar. And my second question to you is; are White Britons, are the indigenous people of Britain, more similar to the indigenous people of France and Germany, than they are to people from Somalia, or to people from Pakistan?

Jeremy Poole: Of course they are, Mark!

Mark Collett: This is the basis of nationalism.

Jeremy Poole: But that doesn’t mean that we’re not humans and we can’t behave in the way of other countries. I live over here in Catalonia [Spain], I speak the language, I go on the streets, I talk to all the locals, wherever they’re from! Wherever they’re from! We can assimilate! Humans have learned to do that and the world is changing. We can put up our barriers and close our doors. But it’s changing. If we can make it a positive change, …

How do you? So, how do you, … I’m for limiting migration on a points basis. How would you want to get rid of these people from Britain, then? So how do we get rid of them?

Mark Collett: So, I have questions on something else as well here.

Jeremy Poole: You don’t want to answer?

Mark Collett: No. I’m going to answer that. But you keep saying the same thing again, and again:

“The world is changing, the world is changing, everything’s changing. You can’t ignore the changes.”

The changes are completely manufactured by a group of people who are bringing about these changes, because they want to bring about a multicultural society, in order to destroy primarily European nations! And once they’ve destroyed European nations, they’ll do the same with nations like Japan as well. This is a plan that is being orchestrated all over the Western world.

So when you keep saying these changes are happening, again it’s not addressing my point that I made in my initial opening comments. This isn’t a natural change. This isn’t something that’s happened organically.

This is something that has happened, because there is massive amounts of money. And we’re talking billions, if not trillions, each year being spent on attracting people from the developing world and the Third World into Western nations. And when they come here they are not assimilating! They are not becoming like us! They are turning our cities and towns into hell holes!

And often the primary victims in those cities and towns are White people! Rotherham, Telford! Look at the knife crime and the machete crime in places like Birmingham and London! Look at the terrorism! This isn’t working.

And all of the money that the government has poured in to trying to get to these people to be “British”, hasn’t worked. Because it’s never going to work! It never did.

Jeremy Poole: We agree on one thing, Mark it’s been a failure to have “mass” immigration! And I’ve said from the start “mass” immigration is a bad idea. I’ve said “limited” migration has always been part of the [word unclear] and always will. And we need to keep it going. There are people, … I’m all for the points based system. That people come and they assimilate into the UK.

Mass migration, I’ve never argued for it, ever! So that’s something that we do have in common. But you suggest is to get rid of people from the UK who don’t want to go necessarily. And that’s where, …

Mark Collett: No, I’ve never said that. That’s a mis-characterization of what I’ve said.

Jeremy Poole: So how would you get rid of people? If, and it’s an if, because you use the “if”. If this demographic argument, which I would say is falsely based, is true, you have to get rid of them. So how would you do it?

Mark Collett: Well, [chuckling] first it’s not falsely based. It’s based on cenus results. The results of censuses which gives us the, …

Jeremy Poole: The censuses don’t give you the future today, you said “if”. And if is a conditional sentence. And it means it’s not true, it’s a possibility. So sorry, carry on.

Mark Collett: It shows trends! It shows trends. And trends do predict the future. That’s how people, …

Jeremy Poole: And trends in the past?

Mark Collett: So that’s trends in the past, yeah, …

Jeremy Poole: Which I said in America, as people get rich, the demographics, …

Mark Collett: What’s happening in America, White people in America are going to be a minority even sooner than White people in the UK. We know that! So how do we get people to go back?

Jeremy Poole: White people, why would that bother you if White people are minority, or not in America? America was, is never an openly White country. It was a country that was empty, and filled with people. Why is, ….

[25:00]

Mark Collett: America was founded by people of European descent. It was uniquely European it was founded by people who wanted to basically found what was essentially an ethno state. It was White European Christians that wanted to found a state in their image.

Jeremy Poole: But the American idea is a civic nationalist idea built around the flag, and around their ideas.

Mark Collett: It was never a civic nationalist idea until they changed the immigration laws there! The immigration laws in America up until, …

Jeremy Poole: America can only have White people, …

Mark Collett: The immigration laws into America were “European men and women of good standing”. And then they were changed! They were changed!

Jeremy Poole: Why?

Mark Collett: Why have they been changed all over the Western world? There is an orchestrated plan.

Jeremy Poole: When was this changed?

Mark Collett: I believe it was in the 1960s. Somebody will give the exact date in the chat, I’m sure. Now this was changed, is something that is widely known that it was changed. And ultimately this same problem of demographic change is happening in every European nation! These people are coming in. And they are being incentivized to come here.

And the way to stop them coming here and the way to make them go back, is firstly, close the borders. Secondly, Institute actual equality, real equality. That means everyone plays by the same rules. That means if you walk into a hospital and you can’t speak English, you don’t get a translator at 30 quid an hour. It means if you go into a council office and you need to claim benefits, if you can’t speak English you don’t get them. It means if your children don’t speak English when they just visit the school, …

Jeremy Poole: This is America. This is why they changed the laws in America. I’m not following.

Mark Collett: I’m telling you how we get people out of Britain.

Jeremy Poole: Right.

Mark Collett: We Institute genuine equality! So everybody living here operates under the same law and under the same rules. So if you don’t teach your kids English, you don’t get state education. If you walk into a hospital and you’ve not bothered learning the language, you don’t get free medical care. If you don’t speak the language, …

Jeremy Poole: This is not equality. That is straight out of the South Africa, and you sit at the back of the bus, because you are not one of us.

Mark Collett: I thought you said you weren’t a multiculturalist? I thought you said you were all about integration?

Jeremy Poole: Yeah I am! You were saying separate people. I learned the language. But you have to give people, when they come in, yes, give them time, effort! Over here like I know I live in a place that this happens, more than Britain. And in the schools it’s difficult. But every single child in the school’s, after the first year, they speak Catalan and Spanish. They come over and they do. And it works. It’s difficult, it’s not easy. But these kids in one generation, two generations, become part of the community. And lots of them straight away.

Mark Collett: You’re just a multiculturalist, aren’t you, really? Because what I’m saying here is the essence of nationalism! People come here. And they come here, and they learn the language, they try to fit in. Those that don’t are no longer eligible for state benefits, for free goodies, etcetera.

Once those people no longer get all the free goodies, once they can’t have their halal meat, their kosher meat, once they can’t cover their face in public, these are all perfectly sensible suggestions for our safety, for the safety of animals, they would no longer want to live here. Then they would be offered generous benefits to leave.

That would mean that the few immigrants that were here, that wanted to live by our way of life, would actually show that on a daily basis by adhering to our rules. Once they did that, once they adopted our culture, a small number of people who would come here would stay. And they’d stay by their own volition and we wouldn’t force them to leave.

We’ve never said we wanted a 100% White nation. What we have said, and it is quite clear, is that all these people that have come here are being incentivized to do. So those incentives, …

Jeremy Poole: When you say “come here”, what do you mean? Like only European people? Anybody else? Is it African people, Chinese, American? These people that have come here.

Mark Collett: Anybody that comes to Britain needs to speak the language. That is a number one. And we’ve got a problem here in that large numbers, especially in the Pakistani-Muslim communities, fewer and few of them are speaking English now, because they have their own schools where English isn’t spoken as a first language. You are basically endorsing the creation of several parallel societies! And I’m saying all that needs to be walked back.

Jeremy Poole: Well, I’m not, because I wouldn’t agree with that. I wouldn’t agree with any of that. What I would agree with, …

Mark Collett: You just did!

Jeremy Poole: No I didn’t.

Mark Collett: You just said:

“Let them speak their language.”

[30:00]

Jeremy Poole: I never said that! I didn’t say that! I said when they come in, they learn, … I explained what happened over here. I said they learned onwards. I never said that! I said, when they come in they learn the language and they fit in the schools. They learn the language here in the schools. They separate them in separate schools, they learn the language and they begin to fit in. It takes time. I didn’t say they don’t have to learn the language. Of course, you’ve got to learn the language!

Mark Collett: Your words exactly, were, you said:

“I would create a society, like South Africa, where some people were sitting at the back of the bus.”

I literally just said, …

Jeremy Poole: That wasn’t my words, … That was my words, yes. [chuckling]

Mark Collett: People have to learn English.

Jeremy Poole: And they do. Sometimes people come here and it takes a time. And you are excluding people.

Mark Collett: I am excluding ppl.

Jeremy Poole: I want to be, … People want to come and make an effort. People go to all countries and they learn when they get there! They don’t always learn a language before they get there. So they have to be part of that country, and learn to be part of that, and love that country. And if you were creating something that doesn’t allow them to do that and says:

“We are this lot, you are not, go away!”

You’re creating a negative effect. You’re pushing people away!

And I want good for the country. And I don’t think that will work. I think what you will have then is as in Myanmar. They tried it there, and they ended up with 45 years of ethnic cleansing, because we’re not talking about Whites.

Ethnonationalism has ruined lots of parts of the world, when it’s killed people. Not just Europe. And now they’ve gone to civic nationalism there, to try and come back from the ethnic cleansing, from the pushing people they don’t want out into different areas. And trying to bring things back to a civilized society.

And I don’t think going back to before 1945, is a civilized society. We need to start controlling our borders. The people who are here turning them into British, helping them be British citizens.

Mark Collett: We are an overpopulated country, …

Jeremy Poole: Why are we overpopulated? Give me a reason why. Please tell me.

Mark Collett: How do you want me to define “overpopulated”?

Jeremy Poole: Well you said the word, so you obviously know what it is.

Mark Collett: In England there’s only 14.9% of undeveloped land left. By the fact that if you go to many of our major cities people are sat in hours of traffic jams every day just to get to work. The fact class sizes now are, …

Jeremy Poole: Well all this is investment in infrastructure, not about overpopulation.

Mark Collett: You’re only going to be happy when this country doesn’t have a single scrap of green space! Everyone can come here and they should be given a couple of years to adjust. And if they don’t adjust we still can’t be mean to them. Because then it’s South African apartheid!

You’re basically running a channel called “Wake Up UK”, and you’re putting the people to sleep, with the same kind of arguments that David Lammy would make!

Jeremy Poole: Whatever. Not what I’m saying at all. I’m for, … I’ve been called, I’ve been called far-Right. Because I believe in Britain and tight borders.

What I do not believe is that people with different colour skins, different ethnicities, different religions, cannot be part of Britain! They can be part of Britain. They have to be. Plenty of other countries, …

You say “overpopulation”. Where there’s plenty of other countries, Macau, Monaco, Singapore, just lots of other countries with much higher populations and densities. Israel, Netherlands, Japan. And they’re all doing rather well.

Mark Collett: So what you’re saying is basically:

“We’re up to our chest in manure, but some other people are up to their neck in manure, so pour some more manure in!”

Jeremy Poole: What I’m saying is, Britain is great, we’ve coped, we can use technology, we can use all kinds of things to make the country greater. I’m saying the population, … If you want to look at demographics, the population of Britain is coming towards a problem without youngsters. We need more children in Britain, not less children.

Mark Collett: We need more White children.

Jeremy Poole: Well, you go by color. I don’t go by color. Because I think that’s just purely wrong! Children of all.

Mark Collett: Why is it wrong, …

Jeremy Poole: Because you said we need more White children, …

Mark Collett: We need more English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh children. We need our people to breed! And they are being disincentivized to breed. They are being worked longer and longer and harder. And we are constantly told we need to bring in “virile ethnic minorities” to replace us. And your idea, …

Jeremy Poole: There’s something I agree with you on. I agree with you on our population, especially the women, have been told that there’s more important things than children. And that’s one of the things I stand strong on. That we’ve made big mistakes in the past, that we’ve put careers before children. And now we’ve got ourselves in a bad position. We’ve got an ageing population. That is the reason why the hospitals are full! That is the reason why there’s not enough doctors!

[35:06]

It’s because we’ve got an ageing population. We’ve got this gap of people that have had not enough children being born for 30, 40 years. That is the problems with the hospital. Not the fact that this foreigner is coming in! Not the fact that people don’t speak English! That’s not the problem! It’s that we have not produced enough children in the UK. So you cannot blame these the foreigners for that, who have come in now and are producing children.

They will go along the same route, I suggest, as they become more British, they’ll produce less children. So then another minority will come in, as it did in America. First you had the Irish, then the Italians, then yeah, because they keep doing the same thing. As they become richer they produce less children. That is the demographic problem, not that they’re going to produce more. Because they stop producing more, as I said, history shows as people become richer they produce less children. And that’s just the way it is. Become richer and you produce best children.

Mark Collett: That’s really [chuckling] got nothing to do with what we’re saying.

Jeremy Poole: It’s not?

Mark Collett: You sound like a typical Labour party MP justifying why White people have to essentially be genocided in their own homeland!

Jeremy Poole: No!

Mark Collett: And I’m here saying, …

Jeremy Poole: I say we need more children.

Mark Collett: We are a distinct and individual people. We gave birth to our own culture And I want to suggest an interesting analogy to you here. You see, once you are happy to say that anybody can come here and sort of be just.

Jeremy Poole: I didn’t say that! I said control borders! I said control borders with a point system for people come in. Not anyone.

Mark Collett: But you think that anyone can come here and basically be British, correct?

Jeremy Poole: Can be British, but not ethnic British. Two different things.

Mark Collett: Can’t be ethnic British?

Jeremy Poole: No. Of course they can’t be ethnic British! They can’t be ethnic British, because you I can’t be ethnic Chinese. I can’t be ethnic Ghanaian! That can’t be the case. But I can be Ghanaian if I move there. I can’t, my children can, when they start to become part of the community, learn to live there, and learn their ways, …

Mark Collett: Your children! Is your partner White?

Jeremy Poole: Yes.

Mark Collett: So if you went to, … Let’s say you went to the Zulu, …

Jeremy Poole: I don’t know whether you consider her White, actually! She’s Spanish.

Mark Collett: So if you took your Spanish wife to the Zulu nation. And you had children that were biologically yours in the Zulu nation, would you say your children were ethnically Zulus?

Jeremy Poole: Not ethnically. No, that’s what I just said. They could never be ethnically. But they could be from, … But this is a problem isn’t it? South Africa is turned into an ethnostate, where they get rid of Whites. And that’s exactly the problem! They turn into an ethnostate for blacks, where they throw Whites out. And that is exactly what I’m fighting against! Exactly what I don’t want!

Mark Collett: The fact is, South Africa is dying, because White people have left! And I can tell you this now. If the people who are indigenous to these islands do become a minority, and these islands are populated by people from sub-Saharan Africa, from the Indian subcontinent, not only will it be a crime that we are a minority, but every part of our culture, and every part of what we’ve built will be lost as well! Just as every wonderful thing that White’s gifted South Africa is now being destroyed and lost to the sounds of, …

Jeremy Poole: By ethno-nationalism! It’s been destroyed by ethno-nationalism!

Mark Collett: Not being destroyed by ethnic nationalism!

Jeremy Poole: Ethno-nationalism!

Mark Collett: It’s not ethno-nationalism. The people who brought blacks to power in South Africa were jewish communists.

Jeremy Poole: Jewish communists? Okay. I wasn’t going to [chuckling] bring that up! You brought that up! You seem to put a lot down the jewish communists! And why? I’m going to ask you a simple question, because I’m not going to, …

Mark Collett: I just noticed patterns. I noticed patterns. And I’m not suggesting that all jews are involved in some global conspiracy.

But what I am saying is that jews are disproportionately over represented in anti-Western activities. And they have a strange, hypocritical, stance whereby they support an ethno state in Israel, but do not support any European nation in its endeavors to become an ethnostate, or retain its ethnic identity, and White majority status. Which is a bizarre hypocrisy!

And if you look at what’s happened in South Africa, this hasn’t been turning South Africa into an ethnostate. This has been communism. And if you look into the history of Nelson Mandela, if you look into the people who supported him.There’s even a speech by George Galloway, who openly praises jewish communists for being the force that supported and kept the ANC in government, …

[40:08]

Jeremy Poole: Communism and jews, it’s quite the reverse, isn’t it? Jews are pure capitalists! They are what, … The reason they get at the top in business is, because of the capitalism. You might say Marx, you might say Trotsky, or those. But they came up with a theory. They weren’t the ones, they were, … I don’t believe there was a Russian leader was a jew I don’t believe the jews have been looked on very kindly in communist China, or by Pol Pot, or North and South Korea, or any of these. They are not!

Mark Collett: Eighty percent of the Bolshevik government, …

Jeremy Poole: That is not, …

Mark Collett: That is completely true!

Jeremy Poole: No! Because I knew you’d say that, and I looked it up. It’s not true! The government at the time, there was one! One!

Mark Collett: No. And that’s, because they always change their names to hide in plain sight!

Jeremy Poole: You know, they’re hiding! You know, they change their names and they hide!

Mark Collett: But the vast majority of people don’t, do they? The vast majority of people don’t know which ethnic group Margaret Hodge, or Michael Howard, come from. Because they’ve changed their names. The vast majority of people don’t understand why all of these Hollywood elites change their names.

And you can sit there giggling about it. But it’s a fact they change their names. And they don’t change their names, because they’re not trying to hide. They change their names, because they try to hide, in plain sight. And when you go through lists of names of people who are influential in the Bolshevik government, you will find that many of them appear to have Russian names. And when you dig a little deeper, you find out they changed their names.

Jeremy Poole: So what happened to the jews in Russia?

Mark Collett: The jews in Russia did some terrible things! They killed between eight and ten million ethnic Ukrainians.

Jeremy Poole: That was the jews? But I thought that the Russians.

Mark Collett: They were instrumental, …

Jeremy Poole: Stalin was a jew? Stalin was a jew?

Mark Collett: His wife was a jew. Lenin was part jew. And they ethnically cleansed tens of millions of Russian Christians, …

Jeremy Poole: So you see jews everywhere! Everywhere there’s jews! It’s like, any company in the UK you’d probably find I’ve got Christians on it. Any company! So you could say that it’s all run by Christians. In America you could say, …

Mark Collett: No, no. You either didn’t hear what I said, or you’re deliberately misinterpreting it. I said, …

Jeremy Poole: No, no, I heard. You’re seeing one swallow and you’re saying it’s spring.

Mark Collett: When two percent of the population are so vastly over represented in certain businesses, certain endeavors, certain industries, you can quickly see a pattern forming. And I’m not here with, this isn’t the actual topic of the debate, …

Jeremy Poole: No, no, it’s not. But you said “part jew”. You said, sorry I think you said Lennin was part jew. Which part? You said Lenin was part jew. I don’t understand that.

Mark Collett: Yeah, he had jewish ancestry.

Jeremy Poole: But how do you know, it? Okay let’s just talk about ancestry. How do you know? How far back do you go? I know my ancestry back, well four, or five, generations. And they’re all from Wales. But how do I know I’m not a jew? If you check me, I could be a jew. Couldn’t I?

Mark Collett: So really when you’re saying this, you’re now saying that you do believe something to do with ethnonationalism. Because earlier on when I said that, …

Jeremy Poole: No, no. I’m just saying that if you check. If we’re looking for a drop of jewish blood in anybody, …

Mark Collett: I’m not looking for a drop of jewish blood.

Jeremy Poole: Why was Lennin a jew?

Mark Collett: I’m going back through historical records and pointing out facts which make you feel uncomfortable, …

Jeremy Poole: I don’t feel uncomfortrable, …

Mark Collett: Because everything exactly is based on facts, …

Jeremy Poole: But you will find a one drop, one swallow, and you say:

“Oh look! It’s spring!”

And it’s not! You’re finding one drop of rain. And you think:

“Oh. It’s going to be a flood.”

The jews have been pushed around the world. They’re great businessmen. Nobody will deny that. Perhaps we should try, … Instead of attacking them perhaps we should try and copy them, and be like them! And work as a community and do well in business. Not knock people who are doing well. Do what they do!

Mark Collett: I don’t believe in genociding the Palestinian people. I don’t think, I’m going to be, …

Jeremy Poole: No, neither do I. Ethno states are wrong! Ethnonationalism is wrong in that thing. To genocide the White in South Africa, ethnic nationalism! Genocide in Myanmar, ethnic nationalism! In Germany, ethnonationalism.

Mark Collett: No, no! The biggest genocides going on at the moment are in Europe! People of European descent are becoming minorities in their ancestral homeland. And that could, …

Jeremy Poole: Becoming a minority is not genocide! Genocide is the killing of people!

Mark Collett: No it’s not.

Jeremy Poole: It’s not one group of people [Mark laughing], population growing. Genocide is getting rid of people.

Mark Collett: No it is not! And that just shows you how uneducated, … You can have the biggest bookshelf in the world Jeremy. But if you’ve not read any of the books, unfortunately it’s not going to help you.

[45:01]

Jeremy Poole: If you don’t listen to anybody else, it’s not going to help you either. And, in fact, I’ve read those books. And I’ve read all the books. So it was a genocide when they kill millions of people. It’s not democide when governments do it. Genocide is when people have children! Wow! Well done Mark! Genocide is having children! That’s what you said.

Mark Collett: I’m actually bringing up the UN definition of genocide. I’m actually looking for it now online. Because the UN definition of genocide includes:

“Bringing about conditions that will result in a distinct ethnic group basically becoming a minority.”

It doesn’t have to be via violent means. It can be by:

“Preventing births within the group, moving large numbers of people into an area which basically forces a group to be displaced, or replaced.”

All of those things under the UN definition count as genocide. I’ve done whole videos on this.

Jeremy Poole: Well, I don’t agree with the UN on a lot of things. And I don’t agree with that as genocide. If you’re forcing people in and forcing people out, possibly. But genocide is killing people, Mark! That’s what it is. It’s wiping out populations through killing people. It’s not one population having more children, than another. That’s called population growth! It’s a very different agenda.

Mark Collett: No, no. That is genocide under the UN definition.

Jeremy Poole: Very different. Come on! Okay, I got six children. So I’m committing genocide q well done! Nice one! That’s what you believe. I got six children. So I’m committing genocide on people in Catalonia, because I’m, …

Mark Collett: What I’ve said. And let me be very clear about this. If you manufacture a situation where an indigenous group of people are replaced, or displaced, within their ancestral homeland by other groups who are being incentivized to come there, that under the UN definition, counts as genocide.

I didn’t say you were genociding anyone. I said that the people who are bringing about, and what I call this from the very beginning, this wholly unnatural state when we are seeing mass immigration on an unprecedented level – I gave you all the facts and figures earlier – bringing that about, bringing about those conditions, is genocide! I have never blamed individual immigrants.

And if you want to know who to blame, it’s the people bringing it about.

And that is why I am trying to bring about political change, so that we can get rid of the people in power who have repeatedly – against the wishes of the British public who overwhelmingly in every single poll say that they don’t want any more immigrants – are told that they have to accept more immigrants by people like you who think they’re going to be, in some way, enriched by them!

Jeremy Poole: People like me? No! I have said since the start of this, I’m all for tight regulation and a points based system. So it’s not people like me. I’ve said all along I’ve been anti-mass immigration. I believe, …

Mark Collett: You don’t want a tight system. You already said people can come here and not even know the language, and they get to adapt and they get, …

Jeremy Poole: That was in response to your question. At the start of this I said I want a points based system, same as Australia, which allows, or similar to Australia, not quite the same, which cuts the immigration to an absolute minimum on jobs that are necessary.

Mark Collett: The Conservatives have a points based system now. Yet they’re breaking all the records for letting in numbers of migrants.

Jeremy Poole: They’re doing it wrong then! They’re doing it wrong! Simple as that.

Mark Collett: So what would you do with all these people then you’ve just flooded in?

Jeremy Poole: Illegal migrants have to return, because they’re illegal! That’s the law of the country. They come in illegal, return. Quite simple.

Mark Collett: So can I ask you another question?

Jeremy Poole: Legal and illegal, are two different things. Sorry Mark, yeah.

Mark Collett: So if you’ve got somebody who comes here. And they don’t speak the language, they’re coming here with their wife and children, they’ve got very few skills, and they arrive as an illegal immigrant. That’s right?

Jeremy Poole: Well I say that wouldn’t happen. In my system that wouldn’t happen.

Mark Collett: Okay. So if tomorrow a boatload of people turned up in the UK, they didn’t speak the language, they’ve got lots of dependents, they want benefits, they want free medical care, they want free education. Because they’re here illegally, that is incorrect, yes?

Jeremy Poole: Yes. And I would say that they need to be returned. And this is illegal, and illegal immigration, … If you go through legal channels like I have, then it’s correct.

Mark Collett: So if that boat, full of people that you’ve just sent back across the channel, if that boat that you just sent back across the channel is intercepted by Boris Johnson in a speedboat and he gives them all passports, all of a sudden they’re welcome, because they’ve got a piece of paper and that’s all sorted out.

[50:01]

Jeremy Poole: No. They have to come through the system properly. And I can’t be clearer than that.

Mark Collett: But they have just come through the system. They’ve just been given a passport. And what I’m saying is a piece of paper doesn’t make you the same as us.

Jeremy Poole: No.

Mark Collett: A piece of paper. If I go to Zululand with Mrs Mark and Sophia next week. And we all put on grass skirts, pick up spears, and shields, and run around singing their songs, I’m not a Zulu.

Jeremy Poole: No. It doesn’t matter what piece of paper, …

You could be a positive part to the, …

Mark Collett: These people don’t get pieces of paper and become us.

Jeremy Poole: No.

Mark Collett: They get pieces of paper and they remain what they are.

Jeremy Poole: But you couldn’t be a positive part to the Zulu community? You couldn’t go there and be positive there, and do positive things, and fit in and add to the community? You couldn’t do that?

Mark Collett: Do you think I could bring something positive to the Zulu community? Well that’s an interesting point. And I’m going to answer it this way. Everywhere that people of European descent go, we take with us medical advancement, we take with us technology, we take with us farming advancements.

When we arrived in sub-Saharan Africa they haven’t even invented the wheel. What you are drawing on here is what’s known as a false equivalence. You are saying that people of European descent, you’re comparing people of European descent going to places that have nothing, and taking with them everything, to people coming to a state that has everything, and bringing with them nothing! But, …

Jeremy Poole: That’s exactly the worst of what I’m saying! Thank you Mark. What I’m saying is we control immigration. And if there are some places that have got excellent doctors that we need, we invite them if there’s some Chinese scientists that are exceptional, because they’ve worked on certain things. And they want to come here, we invite them.

If there’s some Israeli scientists have worked on some nuclear reactor they’re good at, we invite them. And we bring the best! And we allow them to come in. And if we need people to work on this thing, we get them. And that’s what we do.

We control our immigration to make Britain great. And if the people who are here then see the great Britishness, they become part of that. And people who are illegal leave. Simple as that! And there’s no question about that I said all along, …

Mark Collett: Well you see that doesn’t work. What we need to do here, is we need to educate and invest in our own people. And we need to raise them up, mass immigration, people coming into this nation, all it’s ever done is drive down wages, and make life worse.

Jeremy Poole: When you say:

“Educating our people.”

How many generations they’ve got to be here to be “our people”?

Mark Collett: People have got, for a start, the number one set of people we need to look after are people who on that census go under the definition of “White Britons”. We need in-group preference.

Charity begins at home. We put our own ethnic groups first! We invest in them, we educate them, we make sure they are in employment, and we make sure they are enumerated fairly. And what’s more, we don’t participate in some global brain drain.

Africa is in a mess! And Africa could do with people who are doctors. It could do with people who are nurses. It could do with people who are scientists.

And the last thing that anyone with any form of global social conscience would do, is go around to places in Africa, places in the developing world, and attempt to bring their best and brightest to Britain, which would not only harm those countries, but would harm the indigenous people of this country by driving down wages and taking away their opportunity.

Jeremy Poole: Mark, I would agree with you 100%! I’m talking about short-term, why are we investing in our country. And I agree with you 100%. We need to invest in our own country. That’s what we need to do. British need to invest in Britain, we need to build Britain.

But when you say there are people in Britain who are not “ethnic British”, that have been in Britain and been part of Britain for a long time. And you were suggesting some kind of two tier system. We invest in those we don’t give it to the others. But that can only create problems between the two groups! If you treat them as an in an out group, then you, …

Mark Collett: The out group was created by multiculturalists like you Jeremy, because you brought people to this country that have, …

Jeremy Poole: I’ve never brought anybody to the country, Mark! Never brought anybody.

Mark Collett: You’ve said tonight that you want to bring people here. You want people to come to Britain. You said:

“Britain has to be an open nation.”

Jeremy Poole: Nope! Never said that. Not an open nation. Britain needs to be a strong nation, needs to be a powerful nation. Not an open nation!

I’ve said about controlling borders all along! All along I’ve said about controlling borders. So how would you do that then? So you take ethnic White people and you take people who perhaps been here since 1970s, what would you do with those? Would you say you can’t be educated then? You can’t, … I don’t understand. How would you force people to have more children? And force other people to have less children?

[55:19]

Mark Collett: You don’t force people to have more children, Jeremy. What you do is you take away the horrible capitalist system which at the moment does everything it can to turn people into units of labour.

So women are told that it is better for them to go out and work. People are told that it’s better to go and spend money on consumer goods and enjoy themselves in the short term, so we can boost GDP, than it is to have children.

People are constantly incentivized in the West not to have children. And then they are then told that they’re not having enough children. So they have to bring in migrants!

Jeremy Poole: Mark, you’re repeating what I think there. But how would the ethnicity come into this? I don’t get it. If there’s people who’ve been in since the 70s. I agree with you that we need to incentivize people to have more children. I don’t understand how that would work. You split them by ethnicity and say:

“You have to have more children, because you’re ethnic British. You cannot, because you’re not ethnic British. Your father was black, your mother was White. Nah, you can’t have more children.”

I don’t understand it.

Mark Collett: This is beautiful you see, because what you’re doing here again is another one of these strange liberal talking points. You seem to be incredibly concerned, you’ve used this several times, because you’re aware that mass immigration really ramped up at a certain point. And you I think it was, …

Jeremy Poole: I think mass immigration was bad for Britain.

Mark Collett: You think it was?

Jeremy Poole: No I know it was!

Mark Collett: But you keep saying, and you’ve said this again, and again:

“What would we do about these people who’ve been here since the 1970s?”

But not once tonight have you said:

“What are we gonna do about these people who have been living in these islands since the last Ice Age?”

The fact is I’m concerned about people that have been here thousands of years. I’m concerned about a group of people that actually built everything that we see around us. And you’re more concerned about these people who have turned up on the last boat.

Jeremy Poole: No! I am concerned about them. Very concerned, very concerned. Because I believe that to build a great Britain is the best for them, and to do that we cannot have an ethnostate with different levels of society depending on your DNA!

We have to close down now, people coming in, just the ones we want. And then build the people who are there. Investment in the country, investment in the people. Encouraging people to stay at home mothers, or fathers, whoever wants to stay at home. One working parent looking after children. Less government interference to be honest with you.

But you seem to say only that for the White people. And that’s almost a eugenicist kind of argument where you’re saying that a certain group of people are having too many kids but are a lower class than us. So they can’t have their kids. We’ll stop those having kids, but we’ll encourage us to have more kids. And it’s an in-group, … You talk about in-group preference, you’re saying.

Okay, I agree that people in the UK have stopped having kids for the wrong reasons, because they want to be more capitalist, a stronger capitalist. And I agree 100 percent with it!

We went down a bad road! We should have gone family friendly. Families! Families! Families, all along. And we didn’t. Now we’re in a certain situation where we have to turn things around. And the answer is not to close everything down and say:

“Right, White people have more kids, the other people, you can’t have more kids, because you’ve already got plenty.”

Mark Collett: Wait! Wait! So this is another interesting point you keep saying. You seem to be really upset when I keep pointing out that White people, the indigenous people of these islands, the English, the Irish, the Scots, and the Welsh, they need to develop their in-group preference, or they need to rediscover it. This seems to bother you.

Jeremy Poole: Not at all! I love White women! [chuckling], …

Mark Collett: That’s my preferential group. Don’t you find it strange? Doesn’t it sort of trigger something in your brain, when you see that White people aren’t allowed in-group preference? And today you’ve been really arguing against White in-group preference quite heavily. But every other racial and ethnic group in Britain are incentivized to having in-group preference.

Jeremy Poole: Now, I agree with you on that. And that’s something like black lives matter, and I disagree with that. I think each group can have their in-group reference, agreed, 100 percent.

But try not to make one group higher than the other. Because this is what happened when the Vikings came to Britain, I don’t know if, you know this, but when Knute came, he decided to be British and he sent his armies home and became British. And this is what happens. We have to make them want to be British, part of our community. And then Britain will be great.

[60:08]

Mark Collett: But why do you keep saying:

“Then Britain will be great.”

Look, this is a really this is really bizarre what you’re saying. Ultimately things have got worse, and worse, and worse!

Jeremy Poole: How do you stop them having families?

Mark Collett: Things have got worse, and worse, and worse, the more multicultural Britain’s been. And it seems that your solution to that problem is to ultimately say:

“Well we need to bring more people in but just make them, …”

Jeremy Poole: Never said that Mark! That’s not even close to what I said! I’ve said at least five, or six times:

“No! We stop. We use a system and limit very tightly who comes in!”

I’ve said that all along! So Mark you’re not even, …

Mark Collett: Why don’t we just stop? Why don’t we just stop people coming in? And why don’t we say to those who don’t want to be like us, and there are many of them in this country who actively don’t want to be like this and us, and they’ve imported their culture to the exclusion of ours. Why don’t we be big enough just to say to those people:

“You’re not fitting in and we don’t need you here?”

Why do you want to push a round peg into a square hole, right? Why do you want to make people be something they don’t want to be? The people who’ve come here, …

Jeremy Poole: Because the suggestion for me is that they’ve come here. So they do want to. Perhaps they don’t know how to? A lot of them don’t want to be. And if they don’t want to be, perhaps they should think about leaving.

But the ones who come here, have come here, because perhaps they want, they’ve got an aspiration. And perhaps when they’ve come here that aspiration hasn’t been realized through education, through whatever. And perhaps, if we can help these become part of the community, and help them be part, and realize:

“Wow! I really want to try and be British!”

And then we can make it better. It’s not up to us necessarily to make, change their feelings. But they are here. There’s people here. We either got to say:

“Right, go go back to the country you came from! Goodbye!”

Mark Collett: That’s the correct course.

Jeremy Poole: No, no! Or we have to say:

“How can we make things better here?”

We can stop them coming in, we can encourage better behavior for the ones who are not. We can apply our rules fairly to the whole population! Fair rules to the whole population. And go along that road of giving people shared aspirations of a nation. And make a shared aspiration.

What is your suggestion then? Because there’s, what, millions, two million, three million, eight million, people here, that you would just want to get rid off. How would we, …

Mark Collett: Yes I do. And let me, this might blow your mind, but, …

Jeremy Poole: No, no, I know you do. When you say you do, and all kudos to you. You actually say it.

Mark Collett: This might blow your mind. But when you go to places like Juwsbury, what do you see? You see people wearing their clothes, you see people practicing their religions, you see people speaking their language, you see people eating meat that has been prepared in a way that would appall the average British person, if they knew how it was prepared. You see people importing their culture to the absolute exclusion of our culture, the indigenous culture! They do this and they create mini ethnostates.

Now this may shock you, but what is different about that little community in Juwsbury, and a community in Pakistan? There’s only one thing different. And that is that the British government are giving the community in Juwsbury, free healthcare, free housing, generous benefits, giving them all manner of little perks for being here.

These people, and this is why this is an engineered genocide. These people are not coming here as you, if you don’t mind me saying, naively suggested, because they want to be British, or they’re looking to become like us. They come here, because they are being allowed to come here, bringing everything about them, bringing their nation with them, but doing so at our financial expense!

And what I am saying to get these people to go away, is institute true equality. Take away their financial incentives. And actually say to them:

“Look, here’s some money, and a one-way plane ticket. If you don’t like it, if you don’t like living by our rules, if you don’t like speaking that language, if you don’t like not abusing animals, if you don’t like not abusing little girls, and forcing them to mutilate their genitals, if you don’t like showing your face, ….”

[65:13]

Jeremy Poole: Those things are illegal and they have to be stopped! Those things are illegal.

Mark Collett: But they’re going on.

Jeremy Poole: And they are going on and they need to be stopped!

Mark Collett: But why are they going on, Jeremy?

Jeremy Poole: Because people are not standing up and saying:

“This is illegal!

 

Mark Collett: No, no! …

Jeremy Poole: Force the laws! That is illegal. It’s illegal and has to be stopped. And treat people equally by the laws. People come into the country they obey the laws of the country they come in. Now we can pick these people. And I’ve talked about this many times! I’ve criticized this, that the different treatment under the law, of different groups. I say:

“One law for all!”

Mark Collett: Well, when I said that earlier, you said that was going to force people to the back of the bus.

Jeremy Poole: No! One law for all, not one law depending on the color of your skin, depending on where you’re from. One law for all!

Mark Collett: I didn’t say:

“One law depending on your colour of your skin.”

When I said earlier that everyone has to operate under our laws, and there has to be true equality. So we all speak the same language, we all agree that we’re not chopping up little girls genitals, we all agree that we’re eating meat that is responsibly slaughtered. When I said those things you said:

“I was putting [word unclear] on the back of the bus.”

Jeremy Poole: I said about the learning of English when you come here, and it takes time. And you can’t separate people instantly.

Mark Collett: It takes time. And if they genuinely want to come here, they should take the time to learn English before they come here!

Jeremy Poole: It’s not always possible. It’s not always possible.

Mark Collett: But why is it not always possible, Jeremy? Again you sound like David Lammy!

Jeremy Poole: It’s not always possible. People immigrant for all different kinds of reasons. And when they get to a country they learn. I’ve seen it here [Spain]. People come and they learn. And it’s not always good that people come here. But you talk about giving them money to go away. Hasn’t history taught us that, that just doesn’t work! That just attracts more people. If you give people money to go away, …

Mark Collett: No [chuckling]! Look, we could secure our borders tomorrow if we wanted to. We could secure our borders with little, or no effort. And if our police actually wanted to they could have stopped the grooming gangs. They could stop female genital mutilation.

Jeremy Poole: I agree.

Mark Collett: They could stop illegal halal slaughter factories. They could do anything. They don’t do it, because there actually is a two-tier system in this country. And Whites are already second-class citizens. And by the time people like you are done with your multicultural nonsense, we won’t just be second-class citizens we’ll be a hated minority an ancestral homeland.

Jeremy Poole: Well, I think if we try to drive people out, instead of saying stop people coming in and treat the people here with respect to the same laws, the same laws, which you said, we need to do. I believe that they the vast majority, …

There’s always bad people. And if you point out the bad eggs, you miss the good eggs! You miss the good things.

I worked for a long time – you see my dog here earlier barking – in dog rescue centers. Always, all my life I’ve worked rescuing dogs. And I could give you a story every single day of a British person that’s abused a dog. And I could make British people sound terrible! White, ethno-British people, if you want.

But if you concentrate only on the bad stories, we have to stop those. But if you keep telling bad story, after bad story, it’s what happens on the TV over here every day. They say how men abuse women. To say that women are abused every day. And they find one story every day, every other day, and push it out. And that’s what you do! You push the bad stories all the time. I’m with you! These things have to stop.

The police have to stand up, have some balls, and go in there and sort these things out! And apply the laws equally to everybody.

What I’m saying is by every day only looking at the, … There’s a jew here, so it must be the jews! There’s 20 Christians, but there’s one jew, it must be the jews! We need to look at the bigger picture. And that’s what I want to do.

I don’t want Britain to have mass immigration! I’ve said that since the start of this conversation. What I’m saying is, if you divide people. If you push an in-group and an out-group, the out-group is going to get worse, not better.

Mark Collett: The divisions were created by bringing people here! The divisions were created by mass immigration and multiculturalism! The divisions are inevitable, when you mix different people! The mixing of people is what is causing the problem.

The mixing needs to stop. And there needs to be reversal of that before we become a minority! And the fact of the matter is, you keep saying about:

“Oh. Well, if we bring people here we can get benefits out of them.”

Where are the benefits? We’re not seeing benefits from any of this! And if we are seeing small benefits, … If you really like your chicken tikka masala, absolutely fantastic!

[70:00]

But I would say hundreds of thousands of White British girls being raped, I would say machete crime, knife crime, moped crime. I would say female circumcision! I would say the mass abuse of animals! I would say the almost complete destruction of the English countryside. There’s less than 15% of it left now! I would say all of those negatives, and there’s many, many more, vastly vastly outweigh a chicken tikka masala on a Saturday evening!

Jeremy Poole: And when have I agreed with mass immigration, Mark? Which point of this conversation did I say I agree with mass immigration?

Mark Collett: You’ve repeatedly said in this conversation that the people here, we need to make them British, that you would bring more people here, because we need them.

You have repeatedly said that Britain needs to be open, and welcoming, and accept change, because we live in a changing world. All of those slogans that you said – whether you want to accept it, or not – are David Lammy, Labour, globalist, …

Jeremy Poole: Not at all what I’ve said. What you were talking about is creating two levels of citizens in Britain. First class citizens, ethno-citizens, that I don’t know how you tell as in the quote that I started with by Mussolini. He says:

“How do you know, who’s an ethno-citizen? How would you tell?”

Would everybody have to have DNA samples? And if you found that your grandfather is a jew, would that make you a jew? And you have to leave. How would you know?

Mark Collett: The fact of the matter is. And I always really love this, I always really love this, there’s always the snarking argument:

“What is White? Who is ethnically British, ha, ha, ha?”

Well, you know what, when the census goes out everyone knows what ethnic group they are! Everyone knows, because you just fill it in, don’t you. You fill in White British, or you fill in mixed ethnicity. Everyone knows what ethnic group they are, unless they’re a civic nationalist who’s trying to, “what is” an ethnonationalist.

Jeremy Poole: So, how do you know, then? You know it from them. So you would say:

“Fill in the form, and we trust what you fill in the form.”

And if you fill it in wrong, then you’re a second class citizen. And we’re gonna sort of give you 15 grand to leave. Is that the system?

Mark Collett: The system is this. And I’ve already explained this. People who have come here – regardless, we are not going to force anybody to leave via violent means, no one wants violence. But if you have come here and you haven’t learned the language, you haven’t adopted the culture, if you have imported your culture to the exclusion of ours, and you are on a myriad of state benefits, yet you haven’t even done what we consider to be the acceptable minimum for being a British citizen, then you will have those benefits and incentives withdrawn. And you will be offered money to leave!

So if you’ve been living here with your family for the past five years, the vast majority of them don’t speak English, you speak broken English, because you’re a taxi driver, …

Well I’m telling you this now, you’re not buying your halal food, you’re not having your wife and your daughters walk down the street with their faces covered. Because that’s a threat to our safety.

You’re not getting free interpreters on the NHS, because that costs us 30, 40, 50 quid an hour, depending on the time of day. And we’ve got better things to spend our money on than interpreters.

You’re not getting every booklet that the council print, printed in your language. What we are doing is saying:

“This is Britain! This is our culture! And if you have come here and you’ve adapted to all of that, you would not see any changes, or any adverse effects under an ethno-nationalist government.”

If however, you’ve been here importing your culture to the exclusion of ours, and at the end of all of that, the only reason you’re really here is for the money, that money’s drying up, and you are not going to want to stay! And that is fair enough!

And if I ever went to live in another country, I would learn to speak the language, I would make sure I was ready to go there. And when I went there, I certainly wouldn’t do things that were alien, or offensive, to the indigenous people, because that is common sense, and it’s called “politeness”.

Jeremy Poole: You would keep your own culture. You could not be, …

Like I live here, you know, where I live, and I speak the language, but I’m still British. I still have my own culture. And I mix in with the other people, and I mix in with all the people here, but I’m still British. It’s something you can’t change overnight is the culture. But what they can do is, like I do, make an effort to fit in. And that is where, again, where we agree.

And I think when you look at now from the 70s, the people coming, they are beginning to fit in. They are fitting in. They are being part of the community. They are being British. And eventually this is where we have to go.

And stop the mass immigration, and bring on the integration. I agree with you on the benefits. But where do we go from there then?

You’re creating a mass poverty group, and perhaps they don’t want to leave. What do we do then? Once you stopped all this. And they don’t want to leave, you’re creating a massive two-tier society then. What happens then when they don’t want to leave? When there’s certain groups that don’t want to leave.

[75:57]

Mark Collett: What do you mean when there’s certain groups? So certain groups, you’re saying, …

Jeremy Poole: Well jews don’t want to leave, because jews have got enough money anyway. The jews that you dislike so much, they don’t claim benefits.

Mark Collett: As I said, jews are welcome to stay. But they’re not having their kosher slaughter.

Jeremy Poole: So the jews, as long as they don’t kosher slaughter, they’re welcome to stay? You are happy to have jews in the UK?

Mark Collett: We would not force anybody out of the country! We would only deport illegal immigrants, or people who are here and have recently settled but committed serious criminal acts.

The fact of the matter is when we fashioned a system, the system would be fair. And the system would adhere by our ways. And if people come here, and they want to do things that we find abhorrent, then they either stop doing them, or they go! It’s as simple as that!

We shouldn’t be the ones changing our culture to suit people coming here! If somebody comes into my house. And I don’t like smoking, they don’t smoke in my house. I don’t like smoking, so if somebody comes to my house, and they want to smoke, they don’t smoke in my house. I don’t invite somebody over and they say:

“Well, I like smoking Mark. So you better start smoking, at the very least, put up with my smoking.”

That’s not how it works. These are our islands. This is our home. And if people are coming here, then they adhere by the rules.

Jeremy Poole: And that’s exactly what I said Mark. That’s exactly what I’ve said all along! That’s exactly what I said! They can have their own cultures, they have to obey by the rules. And that’s the way it is.

Mark Collett: But because the thing is, you keep parroting “integration”.

But one of the things you’re missing, is the vast majority of these young blacks who are part of these violent gangs in inner cities, are second, or third generation immigrants. The vast majority of the Islamic terrorists committing terrorist offences here in the UK, were actually born here. They are second, or third generation, immigrants.

Everything you’ve said about integration, actually points in the direction of me being correct. Because these people aren’t actually integrating. They’re not learning to be like us. In fact, when mass immigration began, it could be argued those people tried to be more like us, because they were fewer in number. And they were more isolated. But as their communities have grown, they have become more, and more, of a problem, not less, and less, of a problem.

And I can tell you this now. Over the next 20, 30, 40 years, as these communities grow, as our cities and towns change, you will see greater clashes between the indigenous people and those of immigrant descent. And you will see those, because integration doesn’t occur over a timeline. In fact, integration only occurs when you’re dealing with such minute numbers of immigrants, that they are forced to integrate.

So if you’ve got a thousand, … Say you’ve got a town with a thousand White families, and one Muslim family moves in, that Muslim family has to integrate, or they can’t talk, or do anything with anyone. They have to be like us.

But the fact is, there are now thousands of those families. So all of a sudden they don’t even need to talk to the White people. And that’s what’s happened. These people are not going to become like us now, Jeremy. They are not going to become like us, because they have the numbers!

Which means there needs to be some kind of serious incentivization – which is what I’m talking about – to either get them to leave, or make them see that adopting our ways is the way forward.

And only by a serious, serious, change in policy will that occur. Otherwise, 10, 15 years down the line things are going to be exponentially worse!

[80:00]

Jeremy Poole: Education! Education! Education! Applying the laws and education! We have schools that can educate these people. These people, all people, people need education. That’s what brings people into a society. And we need to work on the education system in Britain, and work on applying the laws we have.

Because everything you’ve said about knife crime, about female genital mutilation, is illegal! It’s illegal! It’s quite simple as that! So apply the laws.

And as I’ve said all along, same laws for everybody. I don’t want to create a two-tier system. So apply the same laws. You talk about the two-tier system, and I agree with you.

Mark Collett: Well, the two-tiered system was created by multiculturalists, not by ethno-nationals.

Jeremy Poole: Yeah, so don’t create another. And you think that’s bad, so don’t create another.

Mark Collett: Oh man! [exasperated] But I’m not creating a two-tier system Jeremy! I’m saying everyone adheres to the same system! I’ve said all night, consistently.

Jeremy Poole: Yep.

Mark Collett: You have one set of rules that everybody adheres to! How is that a two tier system?

Jeremy Poole: But a set of rules that that outs a group, not a set of rules that that no everybody can agree, …

Mark Collett: No! Rules that is based around the indigenous culture! That is based around the indigenous people! That is what the rules are fashioned about. The rules are fashioned around the people who own the house! Not around the guests!

Jeremy Poole: Right. But then you create an out-group. And the out-group then creates problems. And that’s what is happening now. We have to create one in-group! We’re all in it together. We have to create Britishness for everybody.

Mark Collett: And now it’s David Lammy again! He’s back! Look chat, he’s back on David Lammy!

Jeremy Poole: Well [chuckling] this is what it’s about. It’s not working dividing us. We have to join together. I agree, you’re gonna have sections in the community.

It’s like making a stew isn’t it? You have bits in it, and they’re different bits. But all together we have to make something that we all like. And a lot like it, or not – and I don’t like a lot of it – but there’s people in this country that are never going to leave.

So, we have to then think how are we going to make the best of this, not the worst of it. And the best of it is not by creating something that’s like all the other states that have come and said:

“This is our state, you out!”

We need to make the best of those British people. You say I don’t live in Britain anymore. I don’t, but my family does. And I feel for those in Britain. And they live in a Britain, still like, I think, about 80% White British, or 90%. I don’t know the exact figures.

Mark Collett: I think it was about 81% in 2011. It’s not going to be that. Demographics, as I said, are going in a very, very dark way. But you don’t think that’s happening, you think that, …

Jeremy Poole: No, I didn’t say, I didn’t think that.

Mark Collett: At the beginning of this chat you said you don’t believe that will happen.

Jeremy Poole: I don’t believe it will happen! I didn’t say I don’t believe what’s happening now, that the minorities are having more children now. I believe that as they get richer, as they become part of society, they stop having more children! They start to become part of the community. They stop having more children.

And then, as I told you, history shows that’s true. Every country that’s got richer, the amount of the birth rate has dropped massively. Massively! And that, whether that’s good, we need to encourage births to go up amongst people in Britain. Because, if we have another drop in birth rates, …

Mark Collett: We need to incentivize the indigenous people to breed. So they don’t become a minority. That’s what we need to do.

Jeremy Poole: But a minority? It changes, doesn’t it? Everything changes. And we have to go, sometimes you have to go with the changes and make them positive!

Mark Collett: What!

Jeremy Poole: If we make every change negative, if we make every change negative, … I don’t agree with, …

Mark Collett: We have to just make the best out of things? So basically what you’re saying is, if you’re on your knees and somebody’s saying, you know, it’s time you gave me some pleasure Jeremy, you’ve just got to make the best out of it, have you?

Jeremy Poole: No. We’re in the position we’re in now! We have to make the most of it! We have to do what we can to make it as good as we can. I stand up and I say these “peaceful grooming gangs”, sort them out! I said from day one:

“Sort this out! Don’t sit back and let it happen!”

Also you’ve got like, …

Mark Collett: You’re the kind of guy that when the Titanic’s sinking, you’re running around enjoying the buffet and telling everyone, you know:

“Do a little bit of paddling in the sea water, it’s all going to be great!”

What I’m saying is we shouldn’t be making the best of our own destruction!

We shouldn’t be talking about going as peacefully, and quietly, and pleasantly, into the night as we can!

We should be fighting back against our own ethnic destruction!

We should be fighting back against becoming a minority!

We should be doing something now before our children are completely on the chopping block!

Because it’s not just gonna be a hundred thousand, or two hundred thousand White girls, is it? It’s gonna be many, many, more, as we become more multicultural.

How many, Jeremy, how many White girls have to be the victims of grooming before people like you say:

“It’s time to end multiculturalism?”

[85:23]

Jeremy Poole: I have not, I’ve stood up against this since day one! And I’ve stood up and said:

“The law has to be followed!”

And these people have for me, castration, or worse for these people! I’ve said that since day one. But I don’t think that rests on culture! That resists on people! On people that are bad! And they are bad people.

Mark Collett: No! You see, you are being viciously disingenuous now. So you’re saying that the Muslim grooming gangs, that this has nothing to do with their culture, they’re just bad people! They’re just naughty boys!

Jeremy Poole: It has to do with where they’re from. They’re from a different background. They’ve not learned how to come into our society and behave properly. They’ve not been corrected by the law! They’ve not been corrected by the law when they’ve done it! The law has turned a blind eye to them! If they’d been from day one, …

Mark Collett: You are unbelievable!

Jeremy Poole: The law turned a blind eye to them! If the law hadn’t turned a blind eye, and that since day one the first ones had been expelled from the country, or castrated, it would have stopped like that. It would have stopped! But the law didn’t.

Mark Collett: You’re unbelievable! You’re finding any excuse to let people off the hook for their own actions.

Jeremy Poole: I didn’t say that! I said:

“Catch them! Castrate them! Throw them out!”

How was I letting them off the hook?

Mark Collett: You said, initially, that it hasn’t got to do with them, or their culture, it’s got to do with the fact they’re just innately bad people. And then you tried to claim that if we’d have educated them properly and, you know, give them a good smacked bottom when they did it the first time, they wouldn’t have done it again. This is not how it works, …

Jeremy Poole: When they come in, they have to obey the laws. Anybody who doesn’t obey the laws, … You look back in our own history, the amount of rape and pillage that went on until we came to understand it was wrong. And we were taught it was wrong. It happened. And now the same thing.

Get anybody who doesn’t believe our laws, gets out! Anybody who does these things remove them. There’s no question about that. That’s wrong!

Mark Collett: Is it their culture, or is it not their culture?

Jeremy Poole: What do you mean “their culture”?

Mark Collett: When these people, who are part of these groups, come here, is the grooming part of their culture?

Jeremy Poole: When you say “culture”, you mean Pakistani culture? You mean Muslim? You mean, …

Mark Collett: The people grooming White British girls. Is this a cultural problem? Is this part of their culture?

Jeremy Poole: I don’t believe it’s part of their culture. I don’t think their culture says:

“Okay, let’s go and rape girls!”

I believe it’s part of groups of bad people that get together and are allowed to get away with it, and they keep doing it! And they pass it around. They need to be stopped.

Mark Collett: It could have been anyone then? The grooming gangs, they could have been White, they could have been, …

Jeremy Poole: Well, I don’t believe Jimmy Savile, and the BBC, were Muslim.

Mark Collett: What you’re saying is, …

Jeremy Poole: I don’t believe they were! I don’t believe the Catholic priests. Catholic priests did the same thing.

Mark Collett: You’re gonna go away with a lot fewer viewers after this, Jeremy. Because what you basically saying, …

Jeremy Poole: I disagree with all of the grooming gangs, full stop!

Mark Collett: When this gets played back to you, you have just said that you don’t believe it is the culture of the Muslim, …

Jeremy Poole: What do you mean by culture? If I say, is this Pakistani culture? Is this Moroccan culture? Is it Islam? Is it, … What do you mean when you say “culture”? Because all these are different parts of the world, thousands of miles apart.

Mark Collett: Pakistani Muslims are involved in these grooming gangs. It is their culture! Their group, not just the men involved, but their entire communities covered it up, knew it was happening, and often the wives of the men involved blamed the girls, and thought their husbands did nothing wrong!

What you are trying to say here, is you are trying to basically write this off, that these people were just bad, bad people, that all ended up together. And it was just some quirk of bad luck that they were Muslims. It’s not a cultural issue.

Jeremy Poole: Well I’m trying to say, no, no, no. What I’m saying is, the minute they came into this country, one of them stepped over a line, they have to be taken. The problem is that it happens in the Catholic church when they did it. And they weren’t taken out first of all. But when they were taken out, it stopped. These people have to be taken out, and have to be sent away, castrated, whatever needs to be done. Whatever needs to be done!

Mark Collett: I’ve seen enough White British girls groomed by these monsters!

[90:03]

Jeremy Poole: Monsters, exactly!

Mark Collett: And we don’t want anyone else coming here! We don’t want any more Pakistani Muslims coming here! They’ve done enough damage to our society! And there’s one of us in this chat tonight that’s got big enough balls just to say:

“We’ve had enough! We don’t want these people coming here! They cause enough problems!”

But you still want to see people coming here, you want to make excuses, …

Jeremy Poole: I didn’t say that!

Mark Collett: That’s exactly what you’re saying.

Jeremy Poole: Never said that. Never said that. Never said I want them to come more, never said I want mass migration. What I said is that we need a peaceful society, we need to educate people, we need to remove people who are being bad. I said castrate them. I said control the borders very tightly. I said remove illegal people.

Because I don’t agree with separating people who were in your legally by their colour, it seems that I’m against, …

Mark Collett: Well, you’re against White British girls going about their business from not being raped, aren’t you?

Jeremy Poole: That’s quite disgusting to say that, because I’m not! And I have never have been. I’ve got three White British daughters, and I am not against them being here. That is quite, … You said against White British, I said castrate them! That’s what I said.

Mark Collett: You said, …

Jeremy Poole: I said, I know what I said.

Mark Collett: You said it wasn’t a cultural thing.

Jeremy Poole: Bad people. Evil people.

Mark Collett: You can’t make any excuses for these people.

Jeremy Poole: I’m not making excuses. I said they are evil people who need to be, … What excuses are there then? If I see Jimmy Savile raping people, he’s an evil bastard, he deserves worse than he got. I wouldn’t defend him. Never would! If I see these people, I’ve never defend.

Mark Collett: The difference Jeremy, there are people like Jimmy Savile, and they largely operate alone. And within White society, within indigenous societies, when they are caught, they are ostracized, beaten. And they are so hated they have to go on protection wings in prison.

Jeremy Poole: Like Jim Saville?

Mark Collett: Between our society and the Muslim society, the Pakistani Muslim society, it’s nearly every leader in those communities knew it was happening. The wives, and the families of the men who were doing it, knew they were doing it, and the whole community believed it was actually okay. Because the girls were White British, and not Pakistani Muslims.

Jeremy Poole: And they would never defend that, never defend T

Mark Collett: But that’s cultural, is it not?

Jeremy Poole: I would never defend that ever!

Mark Collett: Is it cultural?

Jeremy Poole: Well, it’s not culture. It is something they need to learn. That’s not their culture. There’s plenty of people in those societies I’m sure that would stand up. And I would stand up against it. And so this means that all of them, whether they are guilty, or not, they all have to leave. Is this the kind of argument? I suggest no more. I suggest lower it right down.

But we need to put this right and there’s plenty of people who will stand up and say like me, the answer is not just to get rid of people. The answer is get rid of some people. I don’t deny that!

But the answer is not just to create another ethnostate, another ethnostate that destroys everything around it!

Mark Collett: Yeah, wouldn’t it be so terrible for young White girls to be brought up in a almost completely White British society, where they weren’t being preyed upon by these gangs? What a nightmare world that would have been, Jeremy!

I mean, can you imagine, can you imagine how terrible Britain was in the 1920s, and 30s, before mass immigration? It’s a good job we’ll never go back to those wonderful days, isn’t it?

Jeremy Poole: Yeah the 1920s, and 30s, the great recession, the end of the First World War, the start of the Second World War, yeah! And what started the Second World War? Ethnostates! Ethnostates! Ethnostates!

Mark Collett: Our children weren’t being raped.

Jeremy Poole: Well I think there was plenty of people killed in the Second World War.

Mark Collett: If you can’t understand the simple fact that a lot of people [words unclear] I’m not going to begin, …

Jeremy Poole: The Pakistani Muslim problem is one that we’re in almost complete, … I think you have to come down hard and stop it! And I agree with you on that. And they need to understand that’s not acceptable. If you want to do that, you want to do these things, go back, go back to Pakistan and do it. It’s not allowed in Britain, simple as that!

Arranged marriages? I’ve had problems here with people doing that here. These things are not acceptable. And they have to be called out and removed from society. And I agree. And that is part of the, …

Mark Collett: These marriages again are purely, …

Jeremy Poole: Part of their culture, like honour killings.

Mark Collett: But I mean, I suppose they’re just bad people!

Jeremy Poole: No, no! They’re part of their culture, that they have to leave behind.

Mark Collett: It’s part of their culture.

[95:01]

Jeremy Poole: Yeah, yeah. And they have to leave them behind. And this is the way it works. And when we go to their countries we have to our culture. We still obey our own culture. But we have to accept their laws. And when they come to ours, our laws are over the top. How do you decide though? You’re talking, you’re taking these examples which are obviously gonna get people upset about women being raped, because it’s wrong.

Girls! Girls! Not women! Young girls being raped by scum, by people, and lots of people knowing about it from both sides of the communities. The police, the politicians, and allowing it to happen. Now these people all need to be taken, … I don’t know how strong you want me to say. But for me, hanging for all of them is too good! Simple as that! No question about that.

Mark Collett: You can keep saying “hanging” but you denied the important point. Which is why people are here. People were here for a debate about ethno-national, …

Jeremy Poole: Let’s go back, yeah, …

Mark Collett: You can keep saying “hanging”, but you denied the fact it was cultural, several times.

And the point is, that we are facing this problem, because we are increasingly a multicultural state, rather than an ethnostate.

And, at this point. And this is really the crux of this matter. You ultimately do believe that multiculturalism can work.

I believe multiculturalism isn’t working! I believe multiculturalism has been brought around about in unnatural way. I believe multiculturalism is engineered to bring about our demise. And I don’t believe it’ll ever work. And I believe that we need to get rid of it, if we intend to survive!

You however believe that multiculturalism can work in some ways. And you do believe in a multicultural society. And I don’t think either of us are going to change our minds.

Jeremy Poole: In some ways, but so you want another Israel. You want another South Africa. You want another Russia. Get rid of them, …

Mark Collett: I want England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales for their indigenous people. I want our people to take our destiny in our own hands. I want us to have a homeland.

Jeremy Poole: Okay, fine! So you want it just for the indigenous people. And the other people, get rid of them?

Mark Collett: No, I said we have to accept, and I’ve said this repeatedly throughout the night, the people that have come here. And those that have done their best to fit in and have met our standards would not be discriminated against.

But the fact of the matter is, the vast majority of discrimination in all of these multicultural societies, is anti-White discrimination.

Jeremy Poole: So they will not be discriminated against. So they’ll be treated exactly the same as White people, whatever?

Mark Collett: Yep! Got to speak English! Got to abide by our rules! Don’t cover your face. You’ve gotta basically do as we do! When in Rome, …

Jeremy Poole: What happened to Rome? It died!

Mark Collett: Multiculturalism!

Jeremy Poole: Yeah, Rome died, …

Mark Collett: Thanks to multiculturalism.

Jeremy Poole: Well, thanks to lots of other internal problems. Yeah.

Mark Collett: I think when Romans were no longer Romans, Rome ceased to exist.

Jeremy Poole: Well, Italy has come back though. But it created itself quite recently, didn’t it? But Rome gave up and became Constantinople. And the last Roman empire, … I do like the history of Constantinople, … Quite into that.

And Mark, just so we can finish on, … But what else? Let’s see if we can change the subject a little bit. What about free speech? You and I, I think this is something we can agree on, free speech.

What about Mr Assange? What do you think about him? Just to completely change a little bit before we sign off. Just something I ask, …

Mark Collett: I think he deserves the right to speak freely.

Jeremy Poole: Thank you Mark so we can finish on something that we both agree on [chuckling]. Just so that we don’t end up on such a conflictive note, yeah. Me, as well. What about, should he be in prison? Because he’s in imprisoned.

Mark Collett: I don’t think he should be in prison. I don’t believe that he’s done anything wrong other than upset the global elite. But I am not an expert on his case.

Jeremy Poole: I ask everybody about that, because I’m a big supporter of Assange. And I think you should be allowed to speak as well. He should be out of prison, speaking.

And so anyway, that’s about it Mark. I think would you like to wrap up there. Because I think we’ve gone quite a long time now.

Mark Collett: I’ll just say this. I think people understand where I’m coming from. We are a distinct and individual people. We have been in these islands for thousands of years. The changes to demographics in these islands have only taken place relatively recently. And they’ve all been completely stage managed.

And they haven’t been stage managed for our benefit. They’ve been stage managed for our destruction.

If we don’t do something now, there won’t be a tomorrow for our people! The British Isles will always exist. But if things carry on as they are doing, they won’t be English, Irish, Scottish, or Welsh! They will be inhabited by people from all over the world, who will bring their own cultures here, bring their own ways of life, bring their own religions.

And ultimately our people, their accomplishments and their memories will be lost to history!

And some people will say they’ll be confined to the history books. But I can assure you of one thing, if we meet a terrible fate where we are genocided in our own homeland, where we are bred out of existence, we won’t even be remembered in history books!

Because any books that are still being printed will never, ever, mention us! Because what is being done to us is being driven by hatred!

You can see this in the current political agenda, in the social agenda, in the media agenda.

This is a pivotal point in history. And if people don’t act now, if our people don’t act now, there won’t be a tomorrow!

Please listen to what I’ve said tonight, follow anything I’ve set up. Everything I’ve said is based on facts, not feelings!

We have to do something now! Because if they don’t, if we don’t, there really is no tomorrow!

Jeremy Poole: Thank you Mark. For myself bit shorter than that.

What do I really want? Well, for me, more than a symbolic flag, I want a society that can feel British and everybody in our society can work towards one goal of making Britain great! I’m working towards a society that instead of seeing the fall of the greatness of Britain, can increase it again. It can work for everyone. Not on the part, like judging people the colour of this skin, but on the beliefs, on our beliefs, and our inner goodness.

We want people of goodness to come to Britain! I want Britain to succeed in the future! I want Britain to be great! It is great! It will be great! And it will remain great!

What we have to do that is be positive about it. Start selling Britain, start working, start having children, start having a family life, start being what being British is! A good honest family person, family men, family women, with children, getting out to work.

And not putting other people down, bringing yourselves up, and saying:

“Yes! We can be British! We are great I know we are great. And we can all make it great in Britain!”

And anybody who doesn’t want to be part of the Great Britain, you can go, goodbye! Because what we all want in the end is a Great Britain that can be safe for everybody!

Thank you. Mr Jason. I think that’s the end of it, Mark?

Wake Up UK: Okay. Thank you Jeremy, and thank you Mark. I want to congratulate you both from being able to have a debate without needing a moderator to hold you apart and stop you tearing into each other.

And I think we’ve proved the point here that two people that aren’t on the same page can come together and have a conversation. And even when you don’t agree, you have different viewpoints, you can come into the conversation, and have the conversation and leave without tearing chunks out of each other.

Mark would you be would you agree that you’ve had a fair air time tonight, and you’ve been treated politely and respected?

Mark Collett: Oh yeah. So I’ve got to say I’ve got to fly in a minute, because unfortunately I have been a bit ill today. And I was nearly late, because I basically went out for a walk just after dinner. And I found an injured hedgehog and he’s sat downstairs in the box.

I’ve got to, I’ve got an agreement with the hedgehog sanctuary staying open tonight. And I’ve got to go and take the hedgehog to the sanctuary, before midnight. So I’ve got to get off in a second.

Wake Up UK: Sure.

Mark Collett: But, with all of this you have been very fair to me. You’ve allowed me a fair time. We’ve had back and forth both of us have argued. No one has sworn. No one has used vulgar language. And thank you for having me on and doing this. And also, thank you to basically everyone who is in the chat, whether they support me, or whether they don’t. I’ve not seen anyone in the chat insulting anyone, or using vulgar language. And I think that’s really good.

Jeremy Poole: That’s all we want! Mark, thank you. I agree. I agree 100% with Mark. We agreed that we were going to be fair to each other. And we have been. And this is what is going to get people forward. Making things happen like this and not this nonsense of name calling and all this shit that goes on. Because that’s not gonna get anybody anywhere. So thank you for coming Mark I’ve enjoyed having you on you here. And I’ve enjoyed being here. But thank you for having me, as well.

Mark Collett: Thank you. It was a robust debate. And I think everyone’s enjoyed it for Saturday night. But I do I really have to fly now.

Wake Up UK: Sure.

Jeremy Poole: Good night.

Wake Up UK: Cheers Mark and thank you Jeremy.

Mark Collett: Thank you and good night everyone.

[105:09]

END

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YOUTUBE COMMENTS

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Sovereign Eire
3 weeks ago (edited)
I believe Mark Collett won the debate, fair play to everyone who took part let’s keep open dialogue going and debate and not insults or ignorance.
249
REPLY

Hide reply
Based Redpill boycott coke products
3 weeks ago
100%
30
REPLY

Panzergrenadier
3 weeks ago
well it was a fair debate and Jeremy comes across as a good guy, however mark wins debate. fair play to both for a reasoned stream and keeping it civil. well done gentlemen
67
REPLY

藍色 龍安
3 weeks ago
This debate really made me rethink some things. I’m not sure who I agree with now.. Mark certainly made some excellent points though I don’t think civic nationalism has to be such a mess, it’s just unfortunate it’s gotten completely out of hand with all the recent events. I do agree that everyone deserves their own homeland though, it’s hard to disagree with that. I also have to say Britain’s a much safer and nicer place when it’s majority ethnically British. I say this as a person of Chinese decent who greatly appreciates and respects British culture. I can feel Mark is a very genuine man. Read more
86
REPLY

Dylan Shulgi
3 weeks ago
Nice debate, I miss this on YouTube. Good job to all, but I believe mark came out the victor on this one.
71
REPLY

TheJack4000111
3 weeks ago (edited)
Great Job Mark Collette For battling on during your cold. Fair play to everyone for having a fair debate.
52
REPLY

J. Link VII
3 weeks ago
Finally I found this. YouTube is censoring it I believe, “Mark Collett” filtered to within the last day or hour gives no results.
73
REPLY

Ste
3 weeks ago
3:36 Mark’s opening statement
8:45 Jeremy’s opening statement
62
REPLY

James Heyworth
3 weeks ago
Well semi-moderated and thanks to Jeremy Poole and Mark Collett for their contribution. Good debate. There is only one nationalism and that should be adopted by every nation and its people across the globe.
33
REPLY

Alternicity
3 weeks ago
A complete ban on circumcision (for both genders) might be a good policy.
27
REPLY

john morton
3 weeks ago
That was a good debate very interesting.
48
REPLY

Hide reply
D D Jay
3 weeks ago
Aye.
6
REPLY

LadyOfShalott
3 weeks ago
Excellent debate, thank you Jeremy and Mark. It was great to hear both sides put so clearly. Hope Mark is feeling better soon, bless him.
30
REPLY

v bee
3 weeks ago
Enjoyable, thanks all
30
REPLY

Unstoppable Man
3 weeks ago
Overall it was a good discussion. We need more of these.
6
REPLY

Haywood Jablomi
3 weeks ago
Thank you brother
32
REPLY

James Slayson
3 weeks ago
Based
68
REPLY

Spencer Green
3 weeks ago
Awesome
9
REPLY

Paulie
3 weeks ago
So you don’t want forced repatriation out of fear of violence, Mark. Well I can tell you, that attitude will make it fail
11
REPLY

ByeUK
3 weeks ago
Good debate. Mark was too rude though. Takes away from his arguments.
11
REPLY

LOQUDM
3 weeks ago
Mark is so immature.
4
REPLY

Hide 2 replies
Brian Damage
3 weeks ago
He was a bit rude but he utterly smashed the debate.
18
REPLY

Szájer
3 weeks ago
How so?
8
REPLY

Nomadic Hermit
3 weeks ago (edited)
I agree with most things Mark Collett said and Anne Marie Waters talks about many of the solutions he suggests and are in the For Britain Movement’s Manifesto… but look in the chat and you’ll see the Patriotic Alternative supporters writing the Ku Klux Klan’s 14 Words, ‘Heil Collette’ and promoting Hitler paraphernalia etc… and therein lies the problem, you instantly become un-electable – FACT!! Read more
14
REPLY

Phoenix Rise
3 weeks ago
Civic nationalists are the more rational ones. Ethnats are just angry and resentful racists. I love how Mark says Jeremy is arguing feelings when that is exactly what Mark is doing too, because he doesn’t like people who aren’t white.
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Version 1: Jul 5, 2021 — Published post.

Simon: Okay, hello everyone. We’re live once again this evening with European Freedom livestream 22. I didn’t know whether to call it 21b, or 22. I’ll call it 22.

And we’ve got Gavin Boby here. And it’s really great to have Gavin back. Gavin, you and I spoke for the first time in September, October, 2017, I think it was. And then we had another stream a little while after. And in many respects what we could do today is we could run over some of that background.

But I think, as I was saying to Chris Dangerfield just a few minutes ago, what interests us particularly at the moment is not just the mosque-busting, it’s really the strategy for facing the future we’ve got at the moment. Anyway.

Gavin Boby: Yeah.

Simon: How are you my friend?

Gavin Boby: Very well, thank you! Very well. What’s great is suddenly I don’t know if when I was on your stream last I was complaining and moaning in you about how I wasn’t getting much, people weren’t being as supportive as they should be about what I was doing. That has changed! People suddenly have an interest and they’re keen to do something. They came to support it. And that it’s just fantastic! It’s so much better, makes everything so much easier, morale, and just the ability to take on the cases. To go after these places and yeah it’s not just about moss busting it’s not just about disliking Muslims, Muslims are bad, it’s we are good. We want to survive.

Simon: Yeah I mean, Chris said that as a result of your stream with him and then later the one with Jake’s and I hope this continues, that you’ve heard an increase in the very necessary funding. Unfortunately folks Gavin I have put this together, or partly mainly through a fault of mine. I’ve just got to switch that stream off. So I haven’t had a chance to put the links in. Obviously when we finish this stream I’ll put all the necessary links to Gavin’s contact in the description box, and spread around social media. You really ought to be contributing to the stellar work that Gavin does. Can you give us a little bit of an outline of what you do in case people don’t already know?

Gavin Boby: Well yes. And I’m very flattered that people refer to me as the “mosque buster”! That’s a very flattering nickname that people give me. I stopped, I help local neighborhoods stop planning permissions for mosques getting planning permission. So if there’s a planning application for a mosque in your area and you want to resist it then I’ll help you resist it. And it’s probably necessary probably going to suffer if you don’t. Even if you resisting you lose, you’ll get up better if you’ve put up a bit of a fight. That’s what I do. So that’s, I think, how you knew me initially. I have views about what’s going to happen to Western society. How we reverse the problems that we’re in. We’re in pretty deep problems, and they’ve got to be reversed! And that’s not going to be easy. But. I think it will be easy, but it could go wrong.

Simon: Okay. Before we continue I know we’ve talked about this on email. There’s a slight elephant in the room that we need to discuss. So I’m completely willing to, I’m happy to discuss. I think that I have great respect for you. I think the feeling is mutual and yeah, so if we can have a gentlemen disagreements, or meeting of minds, I don’t know. But can you can you introduce the slight disagreement that we had a couple of years ago?

Gavin Boby: Yes. The disagreement is over the perception of the influence that jewish people have. In general. I don’t think, my view, if I set up my view and we can talk to and fro about it. And my view is that I think it is, at best, a blind alley for us. At worst actually a dead rabbit hole! I think you’ve referred to as being a bit of a rabbit hole. I think that’s probably a good a good image for it.

But also think it’s some unjust, again at best unjust, and potentially very cruel! I think it can be jew hating and jew bashing as I’ll call it, ends up, it has a very low flash point. It quickly ends up in a pile of dead jewish bodies. And. I don’t think there is any upside to it. I think it is in general a way to avoid looking at where the problems come from, which is from ourselves.

[05:02]

That’s where our current problems, our current problems don’t come from jews, don’t come from jewish influence! They come from ourselves! But I think it’s possible to pick this apart in detail at the things that jews, jewish people are blamed for.z Things like either the Frankfurt School and such. I just don’t think it is the influence that the people say is. Personally I think the jewish people are a beneficial influence. A good influence. If anything a slightly reinforcing influence on Western civilization. Which I realize might provoke some people to hear.

Simon: I mean, I do have a slightly different view, as we were saying before the stream. And as I’ve said to many other people. When you’ve been on the receiving end of an attack it’s very, very difficult. And when my relationship was Brian of London broke down, this did happen. And I also said on the previous stream that I suffered briefly from what I often refused it refer to as the “JQ derangement syndrome”!

Because what tends to happen, is that you, because you’ve often when you come to what appears to be a great revelation then all of a sudden for a very short period of time until you’ve integrated it into your general worldview it seems to be the explanation for everything. I want to state very clearly and I think probably we do have a difference of opinion.

I do think that jewish people are over represented in positions of power, both on the Left and right, and they do tend to be have an ethnocentric view of jewish people. They tend to stick together in a way to a much greater extent than we Gentiles do. And this is why I think you’re right to say in part the problem is with us. What I would like us to do is to develop a sense of community, of collectivization, quite similar to what the jewish people are capable of doing. I also think that communism, historical events that occurred at the start of the century such as the Bolshevik Revolution and the Frankfurt School they did have an over-representation of jews. But the current problems we’re facing, I also concur with you that primarily our own decadence, our own degradation, to a certain extent. What we need to do is recuperate our own moral values and our sense of ourselves. I think we probably do differ on to a certain extent in certain aspects.

Gavin Boby: Yes. Yes. I think I would agree with you. I would say the jewish people are disproportionately represented in senior positions. I would say that’s, because jewish people I would say are, in general, disproportionately successful, or able. I would go along with the view that European jews, Ashkenazi jews have in general higher IQs. The figure that I’ve heard is about one standard deviation higher than a Western European. A Western European would have an IQ of about a 100 and the European jew, an Ashkenazi jewish guy, would have an IQ of about 114, 115. And on top of that I would see a tendency towards things like stable family structures, and education effort, work ethic, probably a self-confident morality. Not a moral tradition, I’m not jewish, it’s not my moral tradition, but it’s a self-confident, an ethical base.

All of those things I think are very useful if you want to achieve something, if you want to accomplish something. Now I think that probably I would say, in general, that probably means that those things, I mean, the jewish people will be successful at what they do. So for instance if I had to have an operation I found out I had a jewish surgeon operating on me, I’d be really relieved, I’ll breathe a sigh of relief.

But maybe that’s a racist prejudice, or pro-semitic prejudice. And I think that is, if I’m right on that, I think that explains how people can get a crossed-wire about jewish people and jewish influence. Because if people are successful and accomplish things, you notice them, they become noticeable. And that then makes it very easy for people to do what I think some people in Patriotic Alternative will do, which is to make the mistake, a historic mistake that is made in respect of jews. And that is to say:

“This person is jewish! Look at that person! That person that person jewish! They’re prominent in this and this, therefore there is something jewish about this. Because jewish individuals get noticed.

[10:38]

And is that people fall for, I think the two mistakes that people make which are first of all. what I call the:

 

“Is he? Isn’t he?”

Game. That is, is this person jewish, isn’t he? Therefore he’s representative of other jews, which is not the case.

And secondly, singling out jewish people for criticism for doing what non-jews do just as much of so if I give two examples. The first example I’d give of this happening of that process. In World War One, in think in 2016 [1916] German politicians, they were convinced, because they saw jewish businessman perhaps running munitions factories, or uniform factories, or supply companies, not going to the front. And they were convinced jewish men we’re not pulling their weight at the battlefront.

And to prove it they said we’re gonna get a jewish census done to prove this. When that census came back it showed that jewish people were volunteering, or going to war at about twice the rate of non-jewish Germans. And eighty percent were in battlefront roles with bullets flying past. Which I think was nearly twice as much as was true for the German army in general. And these German politicians, they were so convinced that the survey must be wrong, they suppressed it, but allowed some massage, or false data to get leaked to the press.

And that was, you could say that these were raging anti-semites. My guess is they probably saw well this “he’s a jew! He’s a jew! He’s a jew!” and said that means jews are doing this. And not take into account that maybe jewish people will tend to be disproportionately successful, clearly is that a problem? I don’t think that’s a problem.

That’s the first example. It was wrong, it was just flat wrong then. And the tragedy of it was that is often seen as the source of this the split between Germany and German jews. It sort of started, some historians say, that’s where when it started.

The other example I give you is the Frankfurt School. From what I’ve researched, that the little research that I’ve done on Wikipedia and tooled around on Google. I would say there were lots of jewish academics and thinkers in the Frankfurt School. But the Frankfurt School was one of many slow-motion socialists organizations it was trivial! It was pathetic, if you compare it to the Fabian’s.

The Fabian’s are massively successful, very English. It appears pretty much, from what I can tell, to have been a “jew free zone”! I think the only guy who appears of any correspondence with them was a fellow called Harold Laski. I suspect, I speculate he might have just got frozen out. Really, the Fabians were incredibly English! I think, I probably would have loved it, would have fit right in! I would have loved to gone to one of their country house weekends, with all these tough, clipped, sort of humorous, slightly Bohemian individuals. It would have been great! I’d have loved it! But there were no jews involved!

And just you know, that the Fabian School, … Fabian was a [Roman] general. He said:

“I achieve victory through slow motion methods. Slow marches. That’s how I achieve victory.”

Fabians saw revolution hadn’t come, we will achieve socialism slowly. Their logo was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Every leader of the Labour Party has been a member of the Fabian Society. Tory cabinet ministers have been members of the Fabian society. There are probably not many Labour MPs are not members of the Fabian Society. It there ever were an organization that whispers in Prime Minister’s ears, it is the Fabian Society.

Now, if that was made up of jewish people, it would, I can just hear what people would say. But it’s not! It’s so English, incredibly English!

[15:02]

You know, the Italian Marxist again they sought revolution come we want to go for cultural Marxism cultural Marxism that phrase came from grounding the Italian Marx’s appear to have consisted of Italians from the provinces and, rather than from very Catholic backgrounds from what I can tell again no jewish people involved in them, or you look at that phrase the long march through the institutions that came from the German students movement in the late sixties. The German students movement is pretty much defined as being made up of German students who were born between 1940 and 1945. Now there weren’t many German students born in nineteen between 40 and 45 for obvious reasons and in rudi dutschke the leader he came up with that phrase the long march through the institution’s you look at the postmodernist there were jewish post modernist I think Derrida was one of the leading lights but most of them appear to have been French perhaps Rhenish, or Eastern Germans again it took on its own ethnic characteristics Fabian the Fabian Society was very English the ground is the Italian Marx is from Italian and the postmodern is very French Precog feel very elegant looking at culture sticking ray-ban sunglasses on the Statue of David as a that is cultural Marxism undermining again much more influential than the Frankfurt School I would guess if you stop people in the streets and said who are the post modernists they’ll know if you say who are the Franklin school probably as an economics called something to do with Frankfurt banks, or you might assume if something to do with sausages okay they were if you say whose grandsheikh people will know, or the Fabian’s people might know the Frankfurt school I had to look it up I’m not aware of having ever been influenced in any way by the Frankfurt School. And I think that is again that’s an example I’m not trying to say the Frankfurt School didn’t contain a lot of it seems to me that it did contain hot jewish thinkers in it what I’m saying is it is unfair it is unjust and potentially really cruel to single out jews for doing what non jews do moral and in those times in terms of culture and slow motion Marxism non-jews do far more of it and far more effectively it’s just unfair it’s a blind alley to say okay you get rid of the Frankfurt School you won’t stop all those other schools you won’t stop the fading society dominating the Labour party the Labour politicians so know what those are the examples are given figure me I’m not getting air rated at you I dislike the I find it unfair I find unjust that’s why I’m if I’m getting a bit Sun I under the collar about.

Simon: Yes I take the points the frankly. And I think it’s an important point to make that it’s not only jews the Frankfurt School definitely what and some of the big names of the Frankfurt School is its definitely jewish thinking Adorno hoc I’m mark Uzi Eric from Reich Villa is it vill hammerite Reich and it’s the combination of two jewish ideologies Marxism and you we can argue tweet with Chris we just argued a little bit about the jewishness of Marxism I don’t really want to go there and Freudianism. But I think you are correct in pointing out and as I said, earlier once you get out of the JQ derangement syndrome you begin to look at the world and see it see it a little bit more broadly as we are talking about before the stream increasingly coming to think that some of the important roles in society are a result of the system often they’re often I think four out of the last five presidents the Federal Reserve have been jews. But the current one isn’t it is a Gentile and well any person that occupies that role has to occupy that role irrespective of their ethnicity.

Gavin Boby: Yes what you could sell the other side is named the head of any central bank right now it was jewish Jerome Powell in the States I began his Carney still head of the Bank of England, I think he’s just about to leave you have the guard head of the IMF it was and the Pollack walk the policies have got worse I mean, all of the mmm massive money printing has happened you haven’t needed jews too to get that going it just it strikes me as a little unfair I think [20:01] the one the other one this were the other two arrays Dharam the Bolshevik Revolution from again from my reading of history they were quite a few jewish people revolutionaries.

Simon: Four out of seven of the original the first Politburo.

Gavin Boby: Yeah involved originally, but they quickly seem to have got really sick of it so by the end of Lenin’s rule a lot of them were drawing back and by the time styling got into power very few but by the end of starlings rule Starling was saying the reverse he was saying to himself he was very really outright anti-semitic I think Golda Meir visited Moscow and fifty thousand jewish people turned out to welcome her and he said these damn jews I can’t swallow them I can’t spit them out and he created what looks suspiciously like a southern Siberian ghetto to ship all the jews to and killed off and killed off all his jewish doctors and his issue seems to be these jews will not fit in with Bolshevism they will not fit in. So I’m gonna give it to them and luckily he died just before you got on with her so it’s I think I can understand I think I can I think Trotsky was a nasty real nasty son of a bitch probably the only guy I think you could have been worse than Starling, which is a bit like saying there’s a temperature worth lower than absolute zero ri why can I think it’s forgivable that a lot of jewish thinkers a lot of jewish activists coming out of the pogroms and the discrimination of Czarist Russia we use just as a rather big for the right to breathe some of the time but they would be attracted to Marxism and see. This is a way of solving anti-semitism and it’s also where the way of solving through that lens we can see so that will benefit the whole of humankind by getting rid of the class war and create creating a utopia for everyone I can see how people would think that I can see how intelligent people would have the means to dismiss contrary evidence so, or maybe we’ll be able to say as a meta crap no rubbish but smart intelligent educated thinkers could rationalize away all the country evidence so I think there’s. I don’t think it’s quite the way say I think Mark Collett I think he talks about that quite a bit and I think that’s unfair given the way history panned out there, the thing with Freud and why when I could talk about the supposed jewish influence on Freudianism we’re queer either jewish Freud was conscious of that which is why he took on young as a prototype partly, because you young wasn’t jewish but how much harm has been done by that I remember when my mum died I went he spoke to someone and we were when I was talking to this person wasn’t jewish, or not jewish but the model was the psychotherapeutic model where you go you said Danny you talk to someone in and you talk to some that apparently was the psychotherapeutic model established by Freud I’m not aware I was undermining Western civilization by doing that quite the reverse.

Simon: I mean, and I mean, my degrees I’m not a fan of I think the Oedipus complex and that there are various things about Freud that I find very, very subversive. But to a certain extent I’ll be honest with you I accept many of your points I think the standard version of what is known as the JQ is over simplistic I agree with you that the Fabian’s many, many non-jews, or non jews are as involved in the destruction of the West as jews Oh I think we’re gonna have to agree to disagree on certain aspects I kind of really don’t want to get back there was 13th century, because. I don’t think it. I don’t think it’s gonna gonna lead the conversation was it positively I-Iing I accept that that people tend to over simplify the jewish Question but one of the reasons why it’s interesting to talk about is, because it is a question I would prefer to consider it a question, rather than a problem there was a jewish that there’s a German Texas there’s often translated as the jewish [25:00] problem if you actually look at the original translation in German it should be the jewish Question. I think the question is its acceptable to ask the question tarring people with the same brush always is probably an over simplistic idea.

Gavin Boby: Well that will let will that is that acceptable together yeah you don’t have to agree with me but the reason the reason I’m raising I think as, you know, and some of your viewers listeners, you know, I think we’re heading for some pretty tough chaotic violent times in tough chaotic violent times very often the first people yet I’m done over in personal persecuted, or caught in the crossfire are jews and that’s why I want to be mindful of it in what’s coming which might be a nice way for us to lead into what’s coming it’s.

Simon: Okay that’s great. But let’s introduce Horus who’s just had his tea, because we had a short break between this stream of the last stream you’re right Horus how’s it going mate?

Horus: Oh yeah good to me given and thanks for comin off bit of confusion that.

Gavin Boby: No thank you for embody your chat.

Horus: Yeah I’ll try it was hard to I’ve tried to represent you but I couldn’t fully, you know, I for my part demand that we spend the next hour resolving fully and finally the jewish Question and the basically the entire relationship between jews and Western civilization he’s blowing the last two thousand years no I’m sorry I know that there’s the topic of many days of conversation even then you’re probably still wouldn’t resolve it. But yeah, are we moving on, or they do you don’t me together a take on that yeah, sorry cut out Margaret Kevin sir tell.

Gavin Boby: You a few consignment on the home comfortable giving you one if you wanted.

Simon: I think we can let’s move on to the question in hand and what has brought Gavin here really.

Horus: Well just one thing Gavin just them until last summer I was sort broadly in the Counter Jihad what sympathetic to the Counter Jihad movement. But there was a video that that well I won’t go through all the history of it but basically I started making videos last summer and this with one called against Brian avi at some point maybe if you want to watch that and let me know what you think just I’d be interested to know your thoughts that’s all. But I saw what I’ll say.

Gavin Boby: Yes yeah that’s Brian of London and I don’t know a V an O’Brien in London. I think Brian and I would say we’re just not friends in any in any sense of what the horus: Simon’s not friends of you mean for anymore the video is not the video is not actually about them except for a few minutes at the star in the end there were just sort of a title to give it. But it’s about other things related to Islam and the relationship between jews and Islam in Britain. Sorry if you’re interested but no worries if you’re not.

Gavin Boby: Yeah I’ll watch T

Simon: Okay okay as this isn’t a completely prepared stream but fortunately we know each other so it’s oh I know what you want to talk about. Um okay we were gonna move on to the question of the troubled times ahead. I know you and I have spoken this about this in the past about how society is likely to break down. Can you give us a quick overview of your thinking on this? It’s a long in.

Gavin Boby: Hmm yeah big cavity I think that our society is likely to break down. I think that people will think that means we’ve lost I think that’s the point at which we will have won if we want to win. Which is just a question it’s in ourselves do we want to deal with these problems I’ve got the motivation to do so if we do we can do and we can do it easily. What I would say is if we look at the current problems the problems are, because the politicians are doing it and we are letting the politicians do it. I think the politicians are doing it, because it creates it gives them more power by making us more manageable, easy to rule, grinding us down, denying us a sense of identity. I think we let the politicians do that, because we think they’re going to take care of us. Think of the manage the economy, manage the welfare state. Actually, you’ve seen Simon you’ve commented on them I’m perfectly people out in the streets clapping like seals for the NHS! Yes banging this I think it is embarrassing it and people that is what I think that [30:01] is born of anxiety people can feel it slipping away. Now I think that the economics are likely to break down go into quite some depression. I thought that for I don’t decade 15 years and as a result of that the welfare state will cease to function you won’t get the freebies. Suddenly the dole check won’t land on your mat, the housing office won’t send you the rent checks you’ll go into the council to give them out full of abuse to the housing officer and you’ll find there are no employees in the council offices. And they’re not going to tell you that I’m going to tell you it’s broken that we can’t pay you a welfare check, or you’ll find you can’t get on an operating table in the NHS. Again they won’t tell you about that you just turn up where your operation will be cancelled. And at that point I think people will get angry! People will riot. They will say the deal’s off we’ve put up with you politician for you’d be able to give us food for your promise to look after us you’ve stopped looking after us the deal’s off you just get a chaotic society that will break down! In those circumstances I think this has already happening I can go through thatism in those circumstances I think Society will settle out along ethnic lines. As it did very briefly during the rites the London riots of 2011. And you will see de facto Muslim immigrant third-world ghettos in our country becoming official Islamic immigrants further world enclaves. Declaring independence. Basically saying we’re no longer part of England anymore we got our own door get out you need our permission to come in. And those places will become wretched fast. I don’t mean a simply a question of them being denied welfare I needs a question of being high every service under the Sun the question I pose is how long do you live in an area like that that produces nothing! And once it’s drainage is cut off and vaster. I don’t think it will work simply to walk up to a Muslim Enclave and offer 15,000 pounds to go. I think that will fail I’d like to talk about that, but that that already that does fail there’s abundant evidence for that. I think it is not working it is not going to work. But I think when societies separated out and you have a loss of the what i’ma call invaders invaders in self segregated in on the unsurvivable helble’s of their own making. And when they have to stew in their own juice they will be amenable to taking an airplane ticket. And that is not genocide that is not ethnic cleansing that is not the Warsaw Ghetto. The jews of the Warsaw Ghetto didn’t wall themselves up in it. If you’d offer the jews of the Warsaw Ghetto and had plane ticket up they would have taken it! It was not that was not self segregation. That was not jews stewing in their own juice! That was mass murder this is people self segregating and then they will be amenable I think we would accomplish it and it would be quite easy to accomplish it. I think this is likely to happen whatever I do. If I got run of like bus tomorrow I think this scenario is like likely to play out. The reason I do what I did the ultimate motivation is I want to preserve our moral authority! I want us to do this without massacre! Without the kind of eye watering massacre that I would expect to see in France, or the multicultural heaven of Belgium and Brussels. So where you just need to wear wellies to wade through it. And I want us to achieve it so that the towering moral authority that we possess and having had inherited and continued to have, higher than any other country in the world, that that continues that that goes down to future generations. And it’s difficult to do that if you’ve got a lot of massacre on your hands. So that’s why I think it’s going to.

Simon: Do you think there’s a difference between the Muslim community, obviously there’s a difference in the communities and their ethics, but the Muslim communities and the black communities, do you think they’ll they will break down in similar ways, or, … There are other ethnic communities that do tend to separate to a certain certain extent already. Are we just talking about Muslims, or are we talking about immigrants in a broader sense?

Gavin Boby: I think it will work out in a broader sense. And I think for two reasons I think people want and will want the [35:01] sense of belonging that comes from having people around you who look and think and speak like you do. I think there’s a very strong evolved an ethnic element to that. So I suspect quite a lot of this would apply to sub-saharan Africa as well. Whatever indeed so what I think is likely to happen what I would predict on here it could be wrong. I suspect that the state systems are going to break down I don’t see how that can be avoided. I think it’s probably just starting now in those circumstances the question is how do people then satisfy their fundamental need for law and order, or insecurity. I think people will say to themselves the states no longer here to provide for, nor for me so I will provide for it. People will provide for it to privately. It’s almost like a club. You join a club where you each agree to observe laws in your dealings with each other. So that you can live safely with each other so you can continue to trade. Now if I’m right on that the question that I had asked perhaps the question I think it’s an interesting little sort of conundrum off and after-dinner gain but in those situations would you join a system and an area that allowed Islam and the followers of Islam in it I think you’re I think most English people will say no, of course, not no way there’s no reason there’s no incentive so what Islam me. And people know everything they need to know about Islam and people with young children would record in horror. No wait no wait I don’t want any Islam, or the practition of the followers of Islam anywhere in this area why would there is it the right games the parasitism the hatred what is it and then okay. And then the next question. What about some sub-saharan Africans you look at the stab fest in London you look at the crime rates tendency for lower economic achievement. What will people say then I suspect what people’s what English in English people like a little bit of a little bit of difference almost like spice in the society where the Scandinavians don’t. So an English people might say well maybe, you know, a few maybe a few like many Henry that kind of I’m trivializing. But in journal I think people will say you look at the massive numbers of sub-saharan Africans arriving starting to right now I suspect was the authorities to started to rotate out of Islam into sub-saharan Africa this is recruit recruiting ground. What will people say they I wonder I suspect is well you can tell me what are people going to same what is I suspect given it is simply when eventually start saying to themselves I don’t hate you don’t had any one but we have the right to continue we have the right to our own sense of home and a right to a sense of belonging that’s what we want, you know, don’t take offense of this but we want our land we wanna have no it’s the only one we’ve got you have one in Afghanistan you have one in Gambia, or Nigeria Oman, or Iraq we want out here and I think people have every right to do that and I suspect that will apply to a lot of different groups. Again the interesting question is, if you apply that to jewish people I suspect most people would say not uncomfortable with having an English jewish guy as a next-door neighbor into Deer Island I would say that. I said so I suspect that practically speaking when the divine will come.

Simon: Like in many respect going I think it’s probably simpler than that I think if this scenario scenario that you’re suggesting plays out the world would become the society would become a lot more hostile place. And a White guy walking in what would quickly develop into a mainly black area, or a mainly Muslim area is going to be a target. Simple as that. And what will happen there will be and there are nice Muslims in the Muslims at area areas your friendly Larry Henry for your to repeat your example your the nice black guy that we go further down the pub with. But when at once things break down on ethnic lines the only key you’ve got is color. And quite simply a White guy won’t want to be in a mainly black area. And equally once this sense of hostility Rises once that once [40:00] though tension increases black guys and Muslims well what’s it going into why stick White areas, because there might be a number. And this to a certain extent is that would be the way to nullify the effect of the Left there may be plenty of lefties within the White areas who would want to be sympathetic but they won’t be allowed to be simply, because they’re the same color of skin as everyone else and they won’t anybody who stubbornly insists on multiculturalism will be wiped out pretty damn quickly I think. So people will run away and escape to these homogeneous areas. That’s what occurs to me immediately. Have you got any thoughts on this Horus?

Horus: Yeah quite a few. It’s no wish to mention first just what my I would like to believe this, because it suggests that the problems will essentially sort themselves out right I mean, albeit with some pain and some, you know, some losses on all sides. But what my big doubt is that the state, or the ruling class will allow this to happen. Say if it’s, you know, the loss of welfare and others notice a sewerage provisions, and so on, that would ultimately make these different enclaves or, you know, not get those but your enclaves say begin to re migrate themselves away from Britain and away from the West. And if that’s what it will take for them to leave of their own accord I suspect that our rulers will prioritize keeping those things going, because I see it I guess in a more conspiratorial, or malevolent at least a malevolent sense that our rulers have done this quite deliberately. Have brought these people here oh well you’ve said that yourself actually haven’t you, you know, that it helps them to control us — yeah — divided and fractures in terms against each other, and so on, yeah and so make us and so alienate us from other parts of our land, and so on, and I was putting on my words there. But I think I doubt that they’re gonna lose control to that extent. And I think that they’ll exactly, because they want these people here they will put keeping those services going so they’re almost the highest priority other than their own personal security. What do you think about that?

Gavin Boby: I think you’re exactly right, except for one point. Well the question I asked why do you think the politicians can’t lose control?

Horus: And well I mean, I’m all right in thinking that you’re saying that the currency that this will ultimately the debt problems will be what drives this?