John Mearsheimer – Why is Ukraine the West’s Fault? – Sep 26, 2015 – Transcript


[Professor John Mearsheimer, co-author of “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy” gave a now very relevant talk at the University of Chicago in 2015 on why the situation in Ukraine is  the result of (((Western meddling))).  

Professor Kevin MacDonald of The Occidental Observer recently wrote:

“This video, despite being from 2015, provides clarity on the current Ukraine crisis. Putin quite clearly will not stand for NATO being on Russian’s border. Mearsheimer advocates a neutral Ukraine – a buffer state between Western Europe and Russia and argues that Putin will try to bring Ukraine to its knees rather than let it be in NATO.

— KATANA]

John Mearsheimer

 

Why is Ukraine the West’s Fault?

 

Sep 26, 2015

 


 

 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4

 

 

Published on Sep 26, 2015

 

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Why is Ukraine the West’s Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer

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UnCommon Core: The Causes and Consequences of the Ukraine Crisis

John J. Mearsheimer, the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor in Political Science and Co-director of the Program on International Security Policy at the University of Chicago, assesses the causes of the present Ukraine crisis, the best way to end it, and its consequences for all of the main actors. A key assumption is that in order to come up with the optimum plan for ending the crisis, it is essential to know what caused the crisis. Regarding the all-important question of causes, the key issue is whether Russia or the West bears primary responsibility.

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TRANSCRIPT

(74:15 mins)

 

 

 

 

 

Michael Volchok: Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the Uncommon Core Lecture, the causes and consequences of the Ukraine crisis. My name is Michael Volchok. I attended the university from 1986 to 1991. I got a Bachelor’s in Political Science and a Masters in International Relations.

 

 

Professor Mearsheimer was a tremendous influence on my life! Completely revolutionizing my worldview! Changed how I looked at international relations, politics, just everything. In fact, he was such a big influence on my life that when I went home for the summer between one of the school years leaving my college girlfriend here, she gave me a little keepsake, picture book. And she said:

 

“Here, to remember the people you love.”

 

And inside was a picture of her on the Right and a picture of Professor Mearsheimer on the Left [laughter]! That’s true story! When I was here the two biggest things that for me were military affairs, and the model United Nations of the University of Chicago, the student organization that I co-founded in 1988. And at that time I discovered that you need a faculty advisor in order to have a registered student organization. So, of course, I thought for about two seconds. And then I went to see Professor Mearsheimer And I’m not sure if he remembers this. But I asked him:

 

“Will you be our faculty advisor?”

 

And he said:

 

“I will sign the piece of paper if I never have to do anything else after that!”

 

[Laughter] So I had found my faculty advisor!

 

So, without further ado, I would like to introduce the R Wendell Harrison Distinguished Professor of Political Science, Professor John J. Mearsheimer!

 

[02:04]

 

John Mearsheimer: Thank you very much for that kind introduction. Thanks all for coming out to hear me talk.

 

 

The subject I want to talk about is the causes and consequences of the Ukraine crisis, which, of course, has been in the news in a really big way since February 2014. And indeed there was a big story on the civil war in Eastern Ukraine in the newspapers this morning.

 

 

The outline I’d like to follow is, … I’d just like to make a number of preliminary comments to give you some background on this crisis. Then I’d like to give you my thinking on what caused the crisis! Then tell you why I think the conventional wisdom is wrong. Talk a little bit about the West’s response so far to the crisis. Which is just, in my opinion, making a bad situation worse. And tell you what I think should be done. And then finally wrap up with some discussion of the consequences.

 

So let me start with some preliminary comments. First with regard to America’s core strategic interests. For me core strategic interests are areas of the world where you’re willing to fight and die. And, in my opinion, outside of the Western hemisphere which is of enormous strategic importance to us, there are only three areas of the world that really matter. One is Europe. Two is northeast Asia. And three is the Persian Gulf.

 

 

And it’s very important to understand that since this country got it’s independence in 1783, Europe has been the most important area of the world. Even though the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor we had a Europe first policy going into the war. And we had a Europe first policy throughout the war. And it’s in large part because the great powers in Europe are more important than the great powers in northeast Asia, over time.

 

Of course, the Persian Gulf was an important area. Because that’s where the oil is. And oil is a critical resource that matters greatly in the international system.

 

So those are the three most important areas outside the Western hemisphere. And again since the beginning of this country, Europe has been number one! You want to understand that we’re undergoing a fundamental shift, a shift of great importance.

 

 

Asia, because of the rise of China, is going to be the most important area of the world for the United States. The Persian Gulf, because it’s inextricably linked with Asia – oil flowing to India, oil flowing to China – the Persian Gulf will be number two. And Europe will be a distant three. We’re basically leaving Europe in the rear view mirror. And, of course, you want to keep this in mind, because the Ukraine crisis is in Europe, and it involves NATO.

 

[05:01]

 

Just had to think about the geography of Europe. This is a simple if not simplistic way of thinking about it.

 

 

But here’s a map. You can see where Ukraine is. See where Poland is. You can see where Russia is.

 

The way I think about European security is there’s France, Germany, Poland, Ukraine, and Russia. Of course, we’re moving from west to east. These are the big kahunas. These are the big countries that matter. And, of course, the two countries that matter the most historically are Germany and Russia, or for most of the 20th century Germany and the Soviet Union.

 

 

And I put them in red, because as you well know, both Germany and the Soviet Union fought bitter wars in Poland in Ukraine. And we could add in Belarus as well, if need be.

 

But as we go along here you want to keep in mind that Ukraine is right next to Russia. And Poland is right next to Ukraine. And then out further west is Germany and France.

 

Take this a step further this is the ethnic breakdown of Ukraine.

 

 

I’m going to show you a number of maps all of which are designed to show you that Ukraine is a badly divided country. And what’s taking place inside Ukraine today is in good part a civil war. And to that extent it doesn’t have that much to do with what the Russians, or the West are doing there.

 

And as you can see in red are mostly Ukrainian-speaking people. And then, as you move further east, you’re talking about lots of Russians. And certainly lots of Russian speakers.

 

 

This is the Ukraine election of 2004. This is the election in the wake of the famous “Orange Revolution”, which I’ll talk more about. As you can see the country is badly divided between the east and the west. The Russian speakers in the east and Ukrainian speakers in the west.

 

 

This is the 2010 election. Which resulted in Janukovych getting elected. I’ll talk about President Janukovych as we go along. He was elected in 2010. And you can see there, the voting patterns in the 2010 election look a lot like the voting patterns in the 2004 election.

 

And then these are two recent surveys that came out from the International Republican Institute.

 

 

That’s here in the United States. This one says:

 

“If Ukraine could enter only one international economic union, which of the following should it be?”

 

And, of course, the blue is the EU, and the light blue is the Customs Union, … Or actually, the red is the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. And the cities up at the top are in western Ukraine, and the cities down the bottom are in eastern Ukraine. So you can see very clearly that people in the west would like to join the EU. People in the east have little interest in joining the EU. Those are the EU numbers. Here are the NATO numbers. I mean, these two charts look virtually the same.

 

 

But all of this tells you that you have a badly divided country. And the conflict between the West and Russia over Ukraine is played out in the context of this situation.

 

 

This is a simple little view graph that shows Europe’s dependence on Russian gas. It’s quite clear from that view graph that many of the countries in Eastern Europe, and even countries like Germany, are heavily dependent on Russian natural gas. And, of course, that gives the Russians lots of political leverage in this crisis. And it makes it very difficult for us to put pressure on the Russians.

 

Okay. Those are just a number of preliminary comments I wanted to throw out just to set this up.

 

 

Let’s talk about the causes of the conflict. I think if you’re going to talk about the causes of the conflict you have to come at it from three different perspectives. First of all you have to ask; what are the deep causes of the crisis? What are the structural factors that underpin this conflict?

 

 

Then you have to talk about the precipitating causes. Because the crisis broke out on February 22nd, 2014. Things were not terrible until February 22nd, 2014. And that’s when everything went to hell in a hand basket! And the question is, what caused it then? If you focus on deep causes it can’t tell you why something happened in February 2014. But the precipitating causes are designed to get at that.

 

[10:02]

 

And then what we want to talk about is the Russian reaction. Why the Russians did what they did with regard to Crimea, with regard to eastern Ukraine? We want to talk about exactly what they did, and then why they did it!

 

 

So let’s start with the deep causes. My argument is that the West is principally responsible for this mess. Not the Russians.

 

This, of course, is not the conventional wisdom in the United States. And, in fact, except for Steve Cohen who’s now at Princeton, … I mean, now at NYU – he used to be at Princeton. Henry Kissinger, and maybe a handful of other people, there are not many people who agree with me. But I think the facts are quite clear on this, that the West is responsible.

 

And my aim is that the main deep causes, the aim of the United States, and it’s European allies, to peel Ukraine away from Russia’s orbit and incorporate it into the West. Our basic goal has been to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia’s border. And Russia says:

 

“This ain’t happening! Period! End the story. And we will do everything we can to make sure it does not happen!”

 

That’s the deep cause.

 

 

Now take it a step further. There are three key elements in our strategy. The first is NATO expansion. And in many ways the most important. And I’ll talk in some detail about that in a second. But, as you all know, since the Cold War ended, starting with the Clinton administration, we have been moving NATO eastward toward Russia’s border. And the Russians have said:

 

“This is an absolute no-no!”

 

And I’ll walk you through the story in a minute.

 

Second, is EU expansion. EU expansion is all about integrating Ukraine economically into the West. The way we are in the process of integrating Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, the Baltic states, into the West. And, of course, we’re doing that with NATO as well. These are two sets of institutions, NATO military institution, the EU an economic institution. And the idea, again, is to take Ukraine, peel it away from Russia, and make it part of the West.

 

The third part of the story is fostering an Orange Revolution. This is all about promoting “democracy” in Ukraine, and in other places. As you all know, the United States runs around the world trying to topple regimes and put in their place “democratically” elected regimes. And for almost all of you, me included, it’s hard to be against promoting “democracy”. We all love “democracy”!

 

But if you’re Vladimir Putin, or if you’re part of the leadership in Beijing, when the United States talks about “democracy promotion”, that means toppling your regime! And you won’t be surprised to hear this; they don’t like that in Beijing! [laughter] And they don’t like that in Moscow! Right? They do not like that!

 

The Chinese believe that we’re behind the protests in Hong Kong. You go to Beijing you talk to Chinese elites, the idea that we’re promoting democracy around the world and especially in East Asia, just drives them crazy! Because they think they’re in the crosshairs!

 

And, you know what? They are in the crosshairs! Because our basic strategy is to topple regimes all over the world! Not simply, because we like democracy, but, because we believe that whoever gets elected will be pro-Western.

 

So we’re killing two birds with one stone. We’re promoting democracy, and getting leaders who are pro-American. But again you can see the strategy here. NATO expansion, EU expansion, and promoting democracy.

 

I’ll say a bit more about NATO expansion, because it’s so important. NATO expansion took place in two tranches. The first one was in 1999. That’s when you get Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary, incorporated into NATO.

 

 

The second big tranche was in 2004. And that’s when the Baltic states, … You can see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania up top, Romania, Bulgaria. These are the light brown countries. That’s the second tranche of NATO expansion.

 

Now the Soviets made it clear from the mid-1990s they were adamantly opposed to NATO expansion. But number one, they were too weak to do anything about it. And two, it didn’t involve the States that were right on their border.

 

I mean, there’s no question. As you can see from the map that Latvia, and Estonia, are on Russia’s border. And Lithuania as well, if you want to include that little enclave between Poland and Lithuania. But the fact is these were very small states. It was early in the game, and the Russians were willing to live with it.

 

[15:23]

 

 

But then the big trouble starts. And it comes in the famous Bucharest summit. NATO’s Bucharest summit in April 2008. Where at the end of the summit a declaration is issued which says:

 

“NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO.”

 

 

So the Russians made this perfectly clear this was unacceptable. Russia’s deputy Foreign Minister said:

 

“Georgia’s and Ukraine’s membership in the alliance is a huge strategic mistake which will have most serious consequences for pan-European security.”

 

 

 

 

Putin himself said:

 

“Georgia and Ukraine becoming part of NATO is a direct threat to Russia!”

 

You all remember that there was a war between Russia and Georgia in August 2008. That war was a consequence of this. Because the Georgians thought we were sending them a signal that they could get uppity with the Russians. And we would back them, because they were going to become part of NATO.

 

That’s not what happened. And, you know what happened? The Russians clobbered the Georgians! And Georgia is in deep trouble today, because it thought it could become part of NATO.

 

So you want to remember that April 2008 summit. Very important! That declaration, very important! And then what happens is you have a war.

 

So those are the deep causes, those three strategies. NATO expansion, EU expansion, and promoting democracy.

 

 

What about the precipitating cause? Key events leading up to the coup. It’s the coup of February 22nd, 2014 that’s of enormous importance! That’s what really throws the crisis into gear! Just think about that word “coup”. Orange Revolution, promoting democracy. The coup, February 22nd, 2014.

 

So the question is, what causes the coup? ! It all starts in November of 2013. At that point, Yanukovych, President Yanukovych, who’s the head of Ukraine, is negotiating with the EU to form an association agreement that brings the EU and Ukraine much closer together. It’s a step in the direction of incorporating Ukraine into the European Union. Or to put it in slightly different terms, incorporating Ukraine into the West.

 

The Russians make it clear that this is unacceptable. Russians are willing to do a deal that involves the EU, Russia, the IMF, and Ukraine.

 

But the idea that Ukraine is going to do a deal exclusively with the EU, and the Russians are going to be left out in the cold, it’s not something that Putin is willing to countenance. He puts significant pressure on the Ukrainians. He offers them a terrific deal. And as you can imagine the EU is not offering Ukraine a particularly good deal because, you know how much corruption there is in Ukraine. And the EU wants Ukraine to eliminate that corruption, which the Ukrainians really don’t want to do.

 

So what Putin does is not only make it clear that that deal is not going to happen, but he often just offers a sweetheart deal of his own. So Yanukovych, on November 21st, says “no” to the EU. This leads to a series of protests. The Ukrainian government, truth be told, under Yanukovych overreacts to the protests, which causes them to spiral out of control.

 

And in January of 2014, you can see there January 22nd, 2014, you have your first two deaths in the protest. These are the Maidan protests.

 

And then in the February 18th, through February 20th time period, lots of people die! It’s really messy! And what happens is that a number of European Foreign Ministers, the German Foreign Minister, French Foreign Minister, they fly to Kiev and a deal is worked out to have elections that will in effect remove Yanukovych from power. But the protesters refuse to accept the deal. And there are significant fascist elements among the protesters who were armed, right? There’s killing on the Maidan.

 

And as a result Yanukovych flees for his life to Russia. And this all happens on February 22nd.

 

And, oh! Did I not have that slide on? I’m sorry. One of the problems with this lectern is you can’t see. I’m sorry, there is that’s the slide that has all the key events. Oh gosh! Sorry! I have two slides up here, so I lost track of the fact.

 

 

So here are the key events after the coup. On February 23rd Parliament votes to repeal minority language laws in the east. This is basically the Russian language. And then on February 27th Russian units begin seizing checkpoints in the Crimea. On the 28th, additional Russian forces begin moving into the Crimea.

 

The Russians didn’t conquer, or invade Crimea. Actually the Russians didn’t invade Crimea, they were already there, because they had a leasing agreement. There’s a naval base at Sevastopol. And the Russians were leasing that naval base from Ukraine. So they had military forces there. So when it says Russian units begin seizing checkpoints on the 27th. Those were Russian units that were already there. Then additional Russian forces begin moving on the 28th. And then on the 6th, the 16th, and the 18th, you have a handful of events that lead to Russia incorporating Crimea.

 

And then, of course, shortly after that, conflict breaks out in Eastern Ukraine. And although we do not have a lot of hard evidence that the Russians are physically involved in Eastern Ukraine, I think it’s quite clear that they are physically involved. That there are Russian troops there. How many is very hard to tell from the outside. And I think it’s very clear that the Russian government is going to great lengths to make sure that those pro-Russian forces in Eastern Ukraine are capable of maintaining a certain amount of independence. And I’ll talk more about this in a second.

 

Okay. Understanding the Russian response. What is the Russian response? Two parts.

 

 

First is, they took Crimea. And they’re not giving it back. Crimea is gone!

 

Second is what they’re doing is not trying to conquer Ukraine. There are many people who say the Russians are going to go on a rampage, they’re going to try and reestablish the Soviet Union, or a greater Russia. And so forth, and so on. That’s not going to happen. Putin is much too smart for that.

 

You remember what happened when the Russians invaded Afghanistan? You remember what happened when we invaded Afghanistan? You remember what happened when we invaded Iraq? You remember what happened when the Israelis invaded southern Lebanon? You want to stay out of these places!

 

In fact, if you really want to wreck Russia what you should do is encourage it to try and conquer Ukraine! Putin again is much too smart to do that.

 

What Putin is doing is he’s basically in the process of wrecking Ukraine. And he’s telling the West in very simple terms:

 

“You have two choices. You either back off, right? And we go back to the status quo ante before February 22, 2014, where Ukraine is a buffer state. Or you continue to play these games, where you try and take Ukraine and make it a Western bastion on their doorstep. In which case we will wreck the country!”

 

And they are of course, now, in the process of wrecking it, right? And they’re going to keep this conflict going for as long as they have to.

 

That’s the basic game here. Again, two steps. One, took Crimea. No way they’re going to ever let Crimea become a NATO base! And remember the name of the game here is to make Ukraine part of NATO. Not happening! And they’re not getting Crimea!:

 

“We’ve taken Crimea, we’re keeping it!”

 

Number one. And number two, you want a frozen conflict, or you want to wreck Ukraine, so that it can’t become part of the West.

 

Question number two here is, what motivates this? What motivates this is that Russia is a great power, and it has absolutely no interest in allowing the United States and it’s allies to take a big piece of real estate of great strategic importance on its Western border and incorporate it in to the West!

 

This should be hardly surprising to the United States of America. As all of, you know, we have a Monroe Doctrine. The Monroe Doctrine basically says that the Western hemisphere is our backyard, and nobody from a distant region is allowed to move military forces into the Western hemisphere!

 

[25:26]

 

I can tell from looking at the audience that most of you are old enough to remember the Cuban missile crisis, like I am! You remember how we went stark raving crazy at the idea of the Soviets putting military forces in Cuba?:

 

“This is unacceptable! Nobody puts military forces in the Western hemisphere!”

 

That’s what the Monroe Doctrine is all about. Can you imagine 20 years from now a powerful China forming a military alliance with Canada and Mexico, and moving Chinese military forces onto Canadian and Mexican soil? And us just standing there and saying:

 

“This is no problem! We’re all 21st century people, and worrying about Chinese forces there is with 19th century people like Vladimir Putin worry about!”

 

Of course, [laughter] that’s not going to happen! We’re going to maintain the Monroe Doctrine with regard to China, just as we did with the Soviet Union during the Cold War. So nobody should be surprised that the Russians were apoplectic about the idea of us putting Ukraine on the Western side of the ledger.!

 

And, by the way, they told us, I gave you the quote, in the wake of the Bucharest summit. I told you what happened in August 2008 with the Georgia war! The precedents were there! The rhetoric was there! They told us!

 

But we did not stop our efforts to make Ukraine part of the West! And the Russians responded. Was it surprising?

 

For some reason President Obama and virtually all of the elites in the West were surprised! I guess this is, because they’re 21st century people, right? [laughter] And they think that balance of power politics doesn’t matter anymore! If you think these people in Washington, and most Americans, are having trouble dealing with the Russians, you can’t believe how much trouble we’re going to have with the Chinese.

 

I’m very popular in China! I go to China quite often. And I usually start my talks by saying:

 

“It’s good to be back among my people.”

 

Because [laughter] when I’m in China, I’m intellectually much more at home there, than I am in Washington. Because in Beijing, much like in Moscow, you’re dealing with 19th century people, like me! [laughter] Whereas in Washington you’re dealing with 21st century people! I think the Chinese are going to eat our lunch!

 

 

I’ll talk about the conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom is that Putin is the main cause of the crisis. Some say he’s either crazy, or irrational. Angela Merkel was making this argument for a while:

 

“He’s bent on creating a greater Russia, and he bears marked resemblance to Adolf Hitler.”

 

Say a few words about each of these. I know a great deal about Adolf Hitler. I’ve written and I teach extensively on Nazi Germany’s behavior in the 30s, and during World War II. The idea that he bears any resemblance to Adolf Hitler is laughable in the extreme! It’s hard to believe that serious people make that argument.

 

The idea that he’s bent on creating a greater Russia, I think if he could do it, he’d do it! He can’t do it! Russia is a declining great power. And, as I said to you before, if they were to try and create a greater Russia by invading Ukraine, and by invading the Baltic states, they’d be jumping into the briar patch!

 

In fact, again, if you want to wreck Russia, what you should do is tell them to try and create a “Greater Russia”. It will lead to no end of trouble. I think Putin is much too smart for that. And he is in the process of wrecking Ukraine, I want to make that clear. And he’s wrecking Ukraine, because he’s basically saying to the West:

 

“You can’t have it! And I’ll wreck it before you take it!”

 

Is he crazy, or irrational? I don’t think so. I think he’s very strategic. And I don’t think he’s the main cause of the crisis, as I said to you.

 

 

Another set of arguments associated with the conventional wisdom. This is that the United States is a benign hegemon seeking to promote European stability, seeking to promote stability in Asia, all over the globe. And so forth, and so on.

 

There are some countries like Japan and Germany – for sure Poland – who view the United States as a benign hegemon.

 

There are many countries out there who do not. Iran is one. China is another. And Russia is a third! They just don’t see it that way. And, because they don’t see it that way you should understand that when you take measures – “you” meaning the United States – that you think are going to be interpreted as benign, the other side will not see them that way. They will see them as threatening.

 

[30:019]

 

This gets back to my point about “democracy” promotion. We believe democracy promotion is an unalloyed good. And we can’t understand why people like Putin and the leaders in Beijing don’t understand this. But they don’t understand it. And if you don’t recognize what other people think, you’re incapable of putting yourself in their shoes, you’re going to get yourself into a heck of a lot of trouble. And, of course, that’s exactly what happened here.

 

And then another argument is that Putin’s behavior proves that it was wise to expand NATO eastward, to try to include Ukraine and Georgia, right?

 

What’s very interesting is that there is no evidence that we thought Putin was aggressive before the crisis. There’s no evidence that we thought that! There’s no evidence that we were talking about expanding NATO, because we had to contain the Russians! Because again, NATO expansion was driven by 21st century men and women! They believe balance of power politics is dead. That’s what happened here! Do you understand?

 

Putin is a 19th century man, right! He does view the world in terms of balanced power politics. As do we when it comes to the Monroe Doctrine in the Western hemisphere! But in this case, in the case of Europe we were thinking like 21st century men and women. And we thought that we could just drive right up to his doorstep and it wouldn’t matter! Right? We did not think that Russia was aggressive!

 

What happened here is that after the crisis broke out on February 22nd, we then decided that Russia was aggressive! We then decided that Russia was bent on creating a greater Russia, was after the fact!

 

By the way, this is why President Obama, and virtually all of Washington, was caught with their pants down when this crisis broke out after February 22nd. Because they did not see it coming!

 

 

Talk a little bit about our response. We’re basically doubling down. We’re getting tougher and tougher with the Russians. That’s our strategy! And that’s exactly what you’d expect if you’re going to blame them, given that we’re incapable of blaming ourselves. Because we never do anything wrong! You all know that! All the problems in the world are caused by everybody else, never by the United States. Because we’re a benign hegemon!

 

Well, if we’re the good guys and they’re the bad guys, and they’re misbehaving, they’re bent on creating a greater Russia:

 

“Oh my god! This is the 1930s all over again! Any sort of concession to Putin is Munich, October 1938!”

 

Can’t do that! So what you do is you double down. You get tougher and tougher.

 

Then this brings us to the question of whether we can succeed, or not? My argument is you’re playing a losing hand! And the reason you’re playing a losing hand, is because this is a competition between economic considerations and security considerations. The basic mindset of people in the West is that you can punish the Russians economically, and they’ll throw their hands up.

 

My argument is when security considerations are at stake, when core strategic interests are at stake – and there’s no question, ladies and gentlemen, in Russia’s case this is a core strategic interest – countries will suffer enormously before they throw their hands up! Right? So you can inflict a lot of pain on the Russians. And they’re not going to quit. And they’re not going to quit, because Ukraine matters to them!

 

And, by the way, Ukraine doesn’t matter to us. You understand, there’s nobody calling for us to fight in Ukraine. Even John McCain, who, up until recently, has never seen a war he didn’t want to fight, okay, [laughter] is not calling for using military force in Ukraine! What John McCain is saying is that Ukraine is not a vital strategic interest for the West. That’s what he’s saying! It is a vital strategic interest for the Russians! They’ve made that perfectly clear. And not just Putin, right.

 

So in terms of the balance of resolve, it’s all on their side. And I showed you that slide up there that depicted how much economic leverage the Russians have, because of all that natural gas going westward. So we’re playing a losing hand here.

 

But let’s assume that I’m wrong. Let’s assume that we’re playing a winning hand, and that we are capable of backing Putin into a corner. And we’re getting close to pushing them off a cliff. Is this good? You’re talking about a country that’s got thousands of nuclear weapons. And the only circumstance, really, under which states use nuclear weapons, is when they’re desperate. When they think their survival is at stake.

 

So what you’re talking about is putting Putin in a situation where he’s desperate. And if you go home and Google “Putin and nuclear brinksmanship”, you’ll be reading all the articles that come up for the next two years! Right? Because he’s making it clear that you’re fooling around with his core strategic interests! And again he’s got thousands of nuclear weapons!

 

[35:25]

 

So you’re putting yourself in a position where you’re willing to risk a possible nuclear war over a piece of real estate, Ukraine, that is not of vital strategic interest to the United States! Again it’s not a vital strategic interest to us!

 

By the way, this will be my final point on this. What’s truly amazing about all of this, is that we were talking about incorporating Ukraine into NATO when we have now acknowledged by not taking military action over Ukraine, that it’s not a vital strategic interest! You understand that when you incorporate Ukraine into NATO you’re giving them an Article 5 guarantee, which says you’ll come to their defense if they’re attacked.

 

You only give Article 5 guarantees to countries that are a vital strategic interest, like Germany during the Cold War. What were we doing giving an thinking about giving an article 5 guarantee to a country that’s not a vital strategic interest? It just shows you how discombobulated American foreign policy is these days.

 

And, of course, the Ukraine crisis is just one of many messes that we’ve made. As, you know, we have the Midas touch in reverse! [laughter] There’s nothing that we do that doesn’t go south! Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Ukraine! I could go on.

 

So the point I’m making to you is, I do not think that this is going to work. But if it does work, I’m not sure it’s a good thing. I had some quotes from the New York Times that really capture what we’re doing. I won’t leave them up there. But they make it very clear that we’re playing hardball with the Russians. This was a Times piece last year that gave a good synoptic version of the Obama administration’s thinking on how to deal with this crisis.

 

 

 

Now what should be done? My view is we should create a neutral Ukraine, which is a buffer state between NATO and Russia. Basically what I’m talking about is going back to the status quo ante, before we got this foolish idea in our head that we could peel Ukraine away from Russia and make it part of NATO, make it part of the EU, make it more generally part of the West.

 

 

We should work to create a situation where Ukraine is neutral. And it’s a buffer state.

 

 

Just to go back to my simple, or simplistic graphic depending on your views, right. This is how I think about European security. This is what you want. NATO to include France, Germany, and Poland. You want Ukraine as a buffer state. And then you want Russia on the eastern flank of that border state. And this is not what you want.

 

 

You do not want a divided Ukraine where western Ukraine is in NATO, eastern Ukraine is in Russia. And the Russians and the Americans who hate each other at that point, are eyeball to eyeball, on the Dnieper River. Not a good idea!

 

 

How do you get to this end? Very simple! Explicitly abandon NATO expansion. By the way, NATO expansion is dead! I’ve talked to countless policy makers who say this. It’s dead! But what we have to do is explicitly abandon it. Say:

 

“It is not happening!”

 

We have to fashion an economic rescue plan for Ukraine that includes Russia, the IMF, and the EU. This, of course, is what Putin wanted to do in 2013, and the EU said “no”, foolishly. We want to go to great lengths to guarantee minority rights, especially language rights in Ukraine.

 

This gets back to those maps that I was putting up that show that this is in very important ways of civil war. And what we have to do is dampen down the conflict inside Ukraine. We have to give the people in Eastern Ukraine a lot of autonomy. And we definitely have to protect minority rights.

 

Are we going to do any of this? No! And I’ll talk more about that in a second.

 

 

Consequences. And this is my last slide. Will there be a new Cold War? No! Russia is not the Soviet Union. And, as I said, to you before, we have a potential pure competitor on the horizon who could be of proportions we’ve never seen before. The Chinese threat, once it materializes, is going to be something like we’ve never seen. We’re going to have our hands full in Asia. Europe is not going to matter! And Russia is going to be with us.

 

The balancing coalition against China is going to be South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Taiwan, Singapore, India, and Russia! The Russians will be with us!

 

And that’s another reason this whole policy is so stupid! What we’re effectively doing is driving the Russians into the arms of the Chinese. There’s a great strategy! We need the Russians on Iran.

 

We need the Russians on Iran? We drive the Russians close to the Iranians! So they just sold the Iranians 300 anti-aircraft missiles. We need the Russians on Syria! We need the Russians on all sorts of issues! We don’t need to have a fight with the Russians now!

 

 

We’re not gonna have a Cold War. Will the United States still pivot to Asia? Yes. All we need is one big crisis out there. It’s coming, probably in the South China Sea, sooner, rather than later, if you’ve been reading the newspapers. And once that happens we will focus laser-like on Asia. Because that’s a pure competitor. Russia is not a pure competitor.

 

[41:20]

 

What are the implications for NATO? This gets back to the previous question. I think that NATO is in serious trouble and will disappear as a functioning alliance over time, in large part. Because I think we’re going to pivot to Asia.

 

What are the implications of all this for our Asian allies? It’s a very interesting question. I was in Japan in December of 2014. And the Japanese. Like a lot of people in Asia, number one, wonder whether we’re going to be there for them, right? Because they see us causing trouble over Ukraine. They see us picking a fight with ISIS. And they say if the United States is fighting ISIS, dealing with the Russians over Ukraine, are they’re going to be able to pivot to Asia? And then furthermore they say:

 

“Even if the United States does pivot, can we trust them? If you look at how this gang operates in Washington, it does look like the gang that can’t shoot straight! Do we want to depend on them?”

 

If you’re Japanese and you’re depending on the American security umbrella, especially the American nuclear umbrella, don’t you scratch your head and say:

 

“Can I rely on Washington, in a crunch with the Chinese, over the Senkaku, or Diaoyu Islands?”

 

Not clear. So I think this has not been good for our relations with our Asian allies.

 

What are the implications for Iran and Syria? As I said, before remains to be seen. We need the Russians on Iran. We need the Russians on Syria. And you take a stick and you poke the Russians in the eye, and you continue to poke them in the eye, they’re going to look for ways to retaliate. And I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere down the road, they don’t play ball with us on Iran. We don’t get a deal with the Iranians, it’ll be interesting to see what the Russians then do. See if they’re interested in maintaining a sanctions regime.

 

And Syria is a total mess, as you know. And if there’s any hope of resolving that the Russians are going to have to be involved. And again it’s going to be hard to get a lot of co-operation given what’s going on over Ukraine.

 

Is Crimea lost to Russia for good? Yep! It’s gone! Gone!

 

What are the implications for Ukraine? This is in many ways the most important part of my talk and I’ll just take two, or three minutes, then we can go to Q&A. When I give this talk many people, in the West, think that there’s sort of a deep-seated immoral dimension to my position, because I’m blaming the West, and not Putin, who certainly has authoritarian, or thuggish tendencies. There’s no question about that.

 

But I actually think that what’s going on here, is that the West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path. And the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked!

 

And I believe that the policy that I’m advocating, which is neutralizing Ukraine, and then building it up economically, and getting it out of the competition between Russia on one side and NATO on the other side, is the best thing that could happen to the Ukrainians.

 

What we’re doing is encouraging the Ukrainians to play tough with the Russians! We’re encouraging the Ukrainians to think that they will ultimately become part of the West, because we will ultimately defeat Putin! And we will ultimately get our way! Time is on our side. And, of course, the Ukrainians are playing along with this. And the Ukrainians are almost completely unwilling to compromise with the Russians. And instead want to pursue a hardline policy.

 

Well, as I said to you before, if they do that, the end result is that their country is going to be wrecked! And what we’re doing is, in effect, encouraging that outcome!

 

[45:23]

 

I think it would make much more sense for us to work to create a neutral Ukraine. It would be in our interest to bury this crisis as quickly as possible. It certainly would be in Russia’s interest to do so. And most importantly it would be in Ukraine’s interest to put an end to the crisis!

 

Thank you. [applause]

 

I’ll be happy to take questions. I’ll just ask people if you would stand up and just identify yourself quickly.

 

Ma’am. Why don’t we get this woman right here with the peach colored coat on. They have a microphone for you.

 

 

Audience (female): And there stood Hands Morgenthal, right before you, for those of us who knew. Okay so many questions, or points. First point of information. When you talk about the “gang in Washington”, you need to make it clear hopefully that you don’t mean only the “present gang”. You mean from at least 2008 forward, right?

 

John Mearsheimer: Yeah. I mean, the whole Washington – Republicans, Democrats. As far as I’m concerned the Republicans and the Democrats on foreign policy are like Tweedledee and Tweedledum. [laughter]

 

Audience (female): Right.

 

John Mearsheimer: I mean, for anybody who thinks it matters whether you get Hillary Clinton, or some Republican, you’re living in a dream world. There’s just no meaningful difference between them they both have the Midas Touch in reverse [laughter]

 

Audience (female): That leads to my second question. Is anybody listening to you, and Stephen Cohen, and partial, … What’s the one I want, … Partial Kissinger, Stephen Cohen, and you. Is anybody listening that we could hope to vote for, or support?

 

John Mearsheimer: No.

 

Audience (female): No one. [laughter] And I’m gonna give this up in a moment. So there’s no one. So we’re really doomed, that’s it, right? Okay. [laughter] I mean, there’s no enlightenment in store, …

 

John Mearsheimer: Can I just say something? Just in response to your question. I believe that since 1989 the United States has been by far the most powerful state on the planet.

 

 

And for those of you who believe we live in a unipolar world, you’re effectively saying that we are the only great power in the system. And given that tremendous amount of power that we have, we’re really free to go out and do all sorts of foolish things, because it doesn’t blow back on us in any meaningful way. The United States is a remarkably secure great power. So we’re allowed to pursue these foolish policies.

 

And in that context it’s very hard to make arguments against the establishment that carry the day. I think what will happen, if China continues to rise, is that it will force the United States to think more strategically. Because when you live in a serious threat environment, …

 

The point I’m making to you is that the United States does not live in a serious threat environment. We’re an incredibly secure country! We’re the most secure country, most secure great power in the history of the world! And we’re more secure today than we have ever been in our entire history, despite all the rhetoric that you hear from Washington, and in the media about how dangerous the world is. This is just not a serious argument. It’s not a dangerous world, right. We are incredibly secure!

 

We have a pure competitor, it will force us to focus the mind. Much the way happened when the Soviet Union was there, Nazi Germany was there, Imperial Japan, imperial Germany.

 

 

Audience (male): Really enjoyed your lecture. I have two questions, briefly. It’s hard to take issue with the goal of a neutral Ukraine. But some years before the crisis broke out I used to listen to RUI, which was Radio Ukraine, International, on shortwave. And they were fairly open about the cultural crisis within the country leading back a few years before this. As I look at say, the former Czechoslovakia, do you see a possibility of two neutral states formerly known as Ukraine as non-viable? And if so, why?

 

John Mearsheimer: Yeah. If you look at what happened in Europe after World War II, Yugoslavia broke up into a series of remnant states. Czechoslovakia, as you pointed out, broke up into a series of remnant states. And the Soviet Union itself broke up into a series of remnant states. And that’s because inside of those territorial boundaries you had different nations that wanted their own states. Serbs, Croats, in the case of Yugoslavia, Czech, Slovaks, in the case of Czechoslovakia. And we know that there were probably 15, or 16 different groups inside of the former Soviet Union.

 

So the question is inside Ukraine do you have a similar situation between the people in the east, and the people in the west? I think. If you look at the survey data it still shows that the clear majority of Ukrainians in both the west and the east, want to maintain the integrity of Ukraine. They don’t want to split Ukraine in half. I think we should do everything we can to maintain that attitude among the Ukrainian people!

 

My great fear is that as time goes by, and the animosity continues to grow, that you may reach a point where there is a lot of sentiment to just break eastern Ukraine and western Ukraine off from each other, and end up with two Ukraines. But I don’t see that happening now.

 

[51:25]

 

Audience (male): Second and final question. As we look at parts of our recent additions to NATO – Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and look at where their political systems are careening. Has NATO lost the moral imperative for it’s reason to being?

 

John Mearsheimer: Well. I mean, what we tried to do with NATO expansion, and with EU expansion, and with democracy promotion, was to turn all of Europe into one giant security community in which all of the member states were liberal democracies that were hooked on capitalism and deeply embedded in these institutions, and would therefore obey the rules that define the institution. And we would all live happily ever after! That was the goal.

 

And I think everybody understood that Western Europe looked terrific on all of those dimensions. And what we’re going to try and do is extend these institutions eastward and consolidate democracy in countries like Hungary, and Poland. And we were going to make them look more like Western Europe over time. We had some success, and there’s some failures.

 

And if you talk to most people who study Europe today and spend lots of time over, they’re quite pessimistic about where Europe is headed, not only regarding Eastern Europe, but also with regard to Western Europe. And I’m not sure in, you know, 25 years what it’ll all look like.

 

I mean, in my opinion, the biggest issue is demographic. And that Europeans have not been making lots of babies for a long time. And as a result they’re going to have to import lots of people. And these are countries that do not have a rich history of integrating people in a smooth way, much the way the United States does.

 

And it’s no accident I think that you’re now beginning to see the rise of far-Right parties all across Europe, because of all of the immigration. So one could paint a pretty bleak picture about Europe’s future. But the counter to that would be we’ve now got all those countries like Romania, right? Like the Czech Republic, like Slovakia, embedded in these institutions. And these institutions will go to great lengths to combat those tendencies. And in maybe a more incremental way, facilitate the spread of liberal democracy and capitalism. We’ll see whether that happens, or not.

 

But people today are nowhere near as optimistic as they were in the early 1990s when it looked like we had the wind at our back and everything was going to play out over time in favor of the West, and especially in favor of the United States.

 

You all remember Frank Fukuyama’s very famous piece, The End of History, right? Which I think reflected that optimism when the Soviet Union was losing the Cold War and about to collapse. But times have changed.

 

[55:01]

 

Audience (male): You said, quote:

 

“We’re going to have our hands full with China.”

 

And so, just two questions. What kind of a time frame are you thinking things might start to really happen in that direction? And can you just paint a few scenarios of the sort of things that you think might happen when we have our hands full with China? So we know what we can look forward to.

 

John Mearsheimer: Yeah. [laughter] I think when you think about China, at this point in time, there are three situations that stand out. One is Taiwan. Two is the South China Sea, which has been in the newspaper a great deal over the past few months.

 

Chinese basically claim that they control all the South China Sea. And as, you know, they’re building airfields on reefs, in the spratly islands. And we’ve told them that’s unacceptable. And their neighbors the Vietnamese the Philippines think that’s unacceptable. So the South China Sea is a potential flashpoint.

 

Taiwan is a second flashpoint.

 

And the third flashpoint which was in the news earlier this year and for much of 2013, and 2014, are those rocks in the east China sea. The Japanese call them the senkaku islands, the Chinese call them the Diao Islands.

 

And as I was saying to you folks before, I was in Japan in December of last year, December 2014. And it’s really quite amazing how worried the Japanese are about China. And part of it is sort of for realpolitik reasons. But it’s also because the Chinese say those islands, which the Japanese consider to be sacred territory, really belong to China. And the Japanese are greatly fearful that as China gets more powerful it’ll take those islands.

 

So those are the three main flash points at the time. There are other possible scenarios that we worry about. The Korean peninsula is one. Because the Chinese are allied with the North Koreans. We’re allied with the South Koreans.

 

China and India, they have a border conflict. So we go on and on. But those are the big three.

 

Now your question about the time frame is an excellent one. I used to say that it’ll take another 10, 15 years before China becomes powerful enough for this problem to manifest itself. I’m not sure about that. I think it’s possible. It’s not likely – I’m choosing my words carefully – I think it’s possible that you could have a conflict involving the United States and China over the South China Sea, or over the Senkaku slash Diao Islands in the next year, or so.

 

I mean, those problems are on the front burner. And it’s basically a zero-sum game. I mean, either the Chinese owned the Senkaku, Diao Islands, or the Japanese do. So we could have trouble out there much sooner than I have anticipated up to now.

 

Audience (male): You talked about this from the point of view of illogical international relations. What do you think of the internal pressures on these countries? Putin has a historically restive population, highly nationalistic, and in major economic troubles now. He may be responding to pressure from his own population to deal with this.

 

On a smaller scale we see Netanyahu responding to his population settlers, and so on, and disrupting part of the Middle East. Do you see that happening here, with the radical right, say, and the neocons influencing Washington policy?

 

John Mearsheimer: I think just with regard to the United States and the neoconservatives. I think the neoconservatives have been one of the principal driving forces behind America’s foolish foreign policy since 2001. But as I made, as I said before, when I was talking about the Republican Party looking like the Democratic Party, there’s not a lot of difference between the neoconservatives and the liberal imperialists. The liberal imperialists are the aggressively oriented Democrats, and neoconservatives are the aggressively oriented Republicans. But they look a lot like tweedledee and tweedledum.

 

So the neoconservatives matter for sure! And they mattered during the George White Bush administration, because he was a Republican President. But it’s not just the neo-conservatives, right. And the fact is that you have a foreign policy establishment here that is interested in intervening all over the world. You have a foreign policy establishment that’s filled with people who believe that we have a right, and a responsibility, to intervene all over the planet. And that leads to unending trouble when you don’t have the magic formula for winning the wars that you get into.

 

See, the problem that we have is we have this interventionist foreign policy that leads to us losing all the time! It’s really quite remarkable!

 

[60:28]

 

But just with regard to your point about ideology, I think you do not want to underestimate how important nationalism is both in the Chinese context and in the Russian context. You’re alluding to the Russian case. But let me just say a few words about the Chinese case. And this is why getting back to this gentleman’s previous question, I worry so much now about Japan and China getting into a shooting war over the rocks in the East China Sea.

 

The problem that the Chinese face is that communism, which is the governing ideology, no longer has much legitimacy. And they’ve had to find the substitute ideology. And by almost all accounts the substitute ideology is nationalism, right. And at the core of Chinese nationalism is what’s known as “the century of national humiliation”. Chinese nationalism emphasizes that between roughly 1850 and 1950 – that hundred year period China – was humiliated. And it was humiliated by the European great powers, the United States with the open door policy, and especially by Japan. And the Chinese are really just angry about this.

 

And, because nationalism is so important for legitimizing the rulers in Beijing, this whole theme of national humiliation is front and center. Well if you have a crisis over some islands in the East China Sea, and that crisis involves Japan mainly, but also the United States – and you’re talking about the two countries that have humiliated China during that hundred year period. The potential for trouble is great. And I know a number of scholars in China who are quite dovish! Who really worry about a crisis in the East China Sea spinning out of control, because of the confluence of Chinese nationalism and Japanese nationalism, which I’ve not talked about.

 

So nationalism is a very powerful force not just in the Russian case. But in the Chinese slash Japanese case as well.

 

Audience (male): Hi I’m Adam Chekhov, actually, I just graduated last year and, …

 

John Mearsheimer: Could you talk a little louder.

 

Audience (male): Sorry. Hi, I’m Adam Chekhov. I graduated last year also. Thank you for signing the piece of paper that allowed for Molly One [?] to exist as someone who participated in MUN for all four years. But two questions. One, this is pretty quick. You talked about like Russia offered Ukraine a deal involving Russia, the EU, the IMF, Ukraine. Can you like lay out the specific terms of that deal in 2013, when they offered them the deal. And two, this is a little more in depth, …

 

John Mearsheimer: What’s the first question though?

 

Audience (male): The terms of the deal, exactly. The terms of the deal Russia, …

 

John Mearsheimer: You want me to outline the terms of the deal?

 

Audience (male): Yes, if, …

 

John Mearsheimer: I don’t know. I honestly don’t know what the terms of the deal were.

 

Audience (male): Okay. Well, then we’ll just skip that one [laughter]! I guess the impression that I’ve had is that like you do have several well certainly the US is trying to back Russia into a corner. You do have several like people in Germany, especially mostly in Merkel’s coalition partner of the [word unclear], like a in their cabinet. I think [word unclear] Gabriel is one, who is pushing for like a more diplomatic solution towards the Ukraine crisis.

 

So in the long term can you see like potentially Germany which is, at this point, Europe’s, one of their most powerful states, potentially like serving in this crisis metaphorically speaking as the sort of the good cop to US’s bad cop, so to speak?

 

John Mearsheimer: Yeah. This is a great question. As you all know Germany is the most powerful country in Europe. And I showed you the map where I told you that Germany and Russia were of enormous importance for thinking about Ukraine. So the question is how do the Germans think about this.

 

Initially when the crisis first began after the February 22nd coup, I thought the Germans would prevail on the Americans to behave smartly and to slowly, but steadily, just back off and work out some sort of deal. Very importantly, you remember I told you about the famous April 2008 Bucharest Conference, and I told you what was said in the final declaration. That Ukraine and Georgia would become part of NATO.

 

It’s very important to understand that the reason that we did not take concrete steps during the Bucharest crisis to move to include Ukraine and Georgia, was because of German and French, but mainly German resistance. Angela Merkel. Angela Merkel said:

 

“Bringing Ukraine and Georgia into NATO is a prescription for disaster.”

 

The United States, though, prevailed on getting that statement in the final declaration that I read to you. So based on that I thought the Germans would play a key role in tamping down American enthusiasm for doubling down. I proved to be wrong! And if anything Angela Merkel has been a bit more aggressive towards the Russians than President Obama has. It’s really quite striking. And therefore I don’t hold out much hope for the Germans.

 

One final point I would make about this. I’ve actually spoken on this subject in Germany. In early March I was in Germany, I was in Frankfurt. And I was in Berlin, talking to different groups. And my view of the Germans is that as a consequence of World War II, the Germans don’t want to be out front on any issue. The Germans to put it rather crudely are afraid to look at themselves in the Mirror, right. And the idea of them taking the lead, it horrifies them, across the entire political spectrum!

 

So my message to the Germans, when I talked to them, was they should be more Bolshie when they talk to the Americans! They should tell the Americans more emphatically that they’re wrong! And we should be doing this instead of that and that! That line of argument gets remarkably little traction, because again the Germans just don’t want to get too far out front on this. So I don’t see much hope that things will change.

 

Final point I’d make on this. I find very striking about this whole situation. As I was saying before I think Steve Cohen, Henry Kissinger, me, and there are a handful of other people. My friend Steve Walt who’ve kind of been arguing the position that I laid out for you here today. But we’re definitely in the minority! A tiny minority!

 

And what I find very interesting is the extent to which the media here and the media in Europe parrot the conventional wisdom. And the extent to which it’s very difficult for people who represent the position I’ve staked out, to be heard, right! So in Europe you have this situation, it’s especially true in Germany – I don’t read German – but just talking to people when I was there about how the media is dealing with this. The conventional wisdom that I laid out for you is omnipresent in the media. And that makes it very hard to turn this one around.

 

So I’m not optimistic that there’s any chance this is going to change. Our policy is going to change. Which I think is a tragedy, as I said, before. And also it contradicts my earlier enthusiasm about Angela Merkel, which is what you were getting.

 

[69:05]

 

Audience (female): I’m Nell Smith, class of 85. College, Hey Julius, see you later! About the Bucharest directly I have a friend that was teaching in Russia this summer and said that people were just, for those, … I speak Russian and have been to Soviet Union, and then, post, … I mean, suddenly you’re no longer a rock star now apparently, if you’re American and you’re on the streets of Moscow, like we’re used to, people my age. She said people were coming up to her saying:

 

“What are you doing? Why? You and the Germans have caused all of this! You got all these rebels and Ukraine! You organized them secretly in Kiev!”

 

And it was kind of shit! But now listening to you, it’s like:

 

“That’s actually not that far off, it sounds like.”

 

I mean, we didn’t organize them. But basically we kind of told them:

 

“Yeah! Go ahead! Because we’re going to help you!”

 

John Mearsheimer: Well, let me make a couple points. Very important points. With regard to my response to the gentleman who’s directly behind you, about nationalism. This is Russian nationalism coming to the fore. And a lot of what you see in the American case is American nationalism coming to the fore. You’ve all heard the famous saying, or infamous saying:

 

“My country right, or wrong!”

 

And they’re just all sorts of Russians, you know, who are furious at the West and they’re rallying around Putin.

 

One of the reasons that many. People think that Putin started this whole thing was, because it so improved his standings in the polls, or with the Russian public, because people behaved the way you said. So people said:

 

“He started this crisis for that reason!”

 

But my point to you is we should be hardly surprised! And this gets back to the China, Japan example. And this is a very scary dimension to a lot of these conflicts.

 

But I just want to say one other thing. I teach, I’ve done all the research for a book on the German killing machine in World War II. I know a great deal about who the Germans killed, how they killed them. And so forth, and so on.

 

Some of you here have probably taken my course “War on the Nation State”, where I talk about the origins of the “Holocaust”, the origins of the war on the Eastern front, killing of Soviet POWs. And so forth, and so on. [If he dares to, Mearsheimer should study the revisionist texts on the “Holocaust” – Kat.]

 

But my estimate is that Hitler murdered – this is not killed in combat – Hitler murdered 22 million people. And if you look at how that war played itself out in places like Ukraine, there were people in Ukraine who sided with the Germans. And the vast majority of people, of course, fought against the Germans.

 

But the consequences of that war are inextricably bound up with what’s going on now. And the mere fact that there are some, reasonably small number, but nevertheless, some fascists, real fascists, involved in Kiev just spooks the Russians, like you would not believe!

 

And a lot of those fascists, and people on the far-Right, hate the Soviet Union for all the obvious reasons. See the Soviet Union, slash Russia is largely responsible for all the killings that took place in Ukraine on the part of the Soviet Union, not the Germans, right. War history coming in! So what’s going on inside Ukraine is inextricably bound up with World War II!

 

And then the point that I tried to make to you, although I didn’t develop it at length, is that NATO – which is a Cold War institution – is inextricably bound up with the Cold War. And from a Russian point of view, this military alliance moving up to its doorstep which was a mortal foe for 45 years, is gonna spook you!

 

And if you have a coup in Kiev, and some of the people who come to power have fascist tendencies, or are fascists – however you want to find that term – it’s going to have really huge consequences! So this is an incredibly messy situation! And in the context of all this what we’ve done is doubled down! And we do not pay much attention to history, because it was not a history that concerned us in any meaningful way. Because it was on the Eastern half of the European continent but the potential for trouble here is just very, very great.

 

One more. No more? I can’t take any more questions, so you’ll have to ask me afterwards. I’ll answer your question afterwards. Mike told me that.

 

[Applause]

 

 

[74:15]

 

 

END

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15,649 Comments (some)

 

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Alaide Gio Mendes
Pinned by The University of Chicago
Alaide Gio Mendes
5 years ago
Amazing explanation……..simple and clear.
3.1K
The University of Chicago

Hide 495 replies

Paul Zx
1 year ago (edited)
@shyva “russians are sack of potatoes” – подавишься картошечкой, урод.
44

Brian Pompei
10 months ago
Simple and clear from a bozo.
90

Janez Jonsa
6 months ago
Idiotic and manipulative, trying to keep cia away from its inevitable bankrupcy.
Snowden floxed you up
54

Roman Roman
3 months ago
@Sergei Saltan looks like a bunch of ruslandversteher is working hard for huilo (
94

Troller
2 months ago
@Sergei Saltan you are to blame, Russia to blame, USA to blame. You missed the whole point of this lection.
40

Troller
2 months ago
@Roman Roman ahh Ukrainians and their refined sense of humour.
18

Roman Roman
2 months ago
@Troller there is little to humorize about and ansonsten a war
11

jim carrington
2 months ago
Really? Did he explain the happiness of the Ukrainian protesters when they found the horde of treasures inside the presidential palace? If those Ukrainians would have been American spies, those treasures would be gone.
NO, Ukrainians will still tell you today, they started the revolt & they took the bullets in the streets of Kiev.
Those protesting Ukrainians were drawing inspiration from occupy protesters in America, not gov. employees.
Fox & cheato would love for you to believe the nonsense coming from this speaker, as Murdoch hated occupy.
Putin’s pee tapes on cheato are likely real.
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73

Edward Taiaroa
2 months ago
@Paul Zx iuo
1

Troller
2 months ago
@jim carrington No one said that the protest wasnt real. It was real and Yanukovich got what he deserved. But in the end this protest does not achieved its main purpose and was used by other corrupt politics to obtain power. The same politics americans have been talking with during protests. And in the end, people were used just for power grab.
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50

jim carrington
2 months ago
@Troller agreed, but most are saying (in the least) our government fomented the protest there
this university speaker included (they were not part of occupy, so they assume the same of their listeners)
it goes along with the hunter biden story etc,,,
our wealthiest 1% spread more dishonesty than our government these days
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19

Troller
2 months ago
@jim carrington regardless, he is correct about Russian reason’s being so aggresive. Sadly, this whole situation so far only keeps lingering, and until Russia and USA would come to certain agreements, region won’t see any peace.
15

jim carrington
2 months ago
@Troller America needs to get money out of politics & cut the ‘defense’ budget first.
Then we can stop trying to police the world, simply for justification of spending so much on ‘defense’.
If you were a homeless disabled veteran, this would make a lot more sense.
Unfortunately, its much more convenient to let Fox news & the 1% to do the thinking for society.
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19

Troller
2 months ago
@jim carrington yeah, that would have made a difference i suppose.
2

Susan Winter
2 months ago
@Paul Zx I’ll
1

a frickin american
2 months ago (edited)
in the first 22 minutes, I have identified a couple of false anti-Russia statements he makes. It may be that at the time he gave the talk, certain facts were not known. But certainly, by 9/25/ 2015 when this talk was given, he should have known that Russia did not “take” Crimea – as in, take it by force – Crimeans voted overwhelmingly in a referendum to annex to Russia rather than continue paying taxes to the Western puppet regime that was trying to kill them.
This referendum was done in the open with International observers and was openly reported at that time, although Western media also lied about it.
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36

jim carrington
2 months ago
@a frickin american you really believe that?
Who are these observers you have created?
Ever notice that Russia won’t allow OBJECTIVE observers in their elections?
Who were those ‘men in black’ that invaded Ukraine, if they were not Russian?
You never saw them taking over every police station in the areas they wanted?
BELIEVE what you want, I saw what I needed to see.
Enjoy!
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47

jim carrington
2 months ago
@a frickin american After cheoto & his gaslighting, in every disagreement, neither side is searching for truth.
Americans only want what strengthens their position.
Both sides of this disagreement are currently acting in this way.
I am not on either “side” but I have seen for myself how this disagreement began, and it is not what either “side” pretends, & I include this professor’s speech given in 2015, that some are trying to use today.
The Ukrainian people today, do not credit any outside force with starting this trouble, except Russia.
The pro-russian ukrainians put the blame on ukrainians, without addressing prior corruption.
THAT is how you are getting your opinion, pretending that the changed consideration to enter the EU was the cause, when it was not.
Personally, I do not believe it was ever a possibility, until after he was removed from office. It was a ploy.
It backfired because the citizens were sick & tired of all the corruption & any spark would have set this off.
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15

Troller
2 months ago
@a frickin american russian military was still there, in the background during Crimean secession.
13

a frickin american
2 months ago (edited)
@Troller as mearsheimer himself explained, Russia was already there, leasing military bases in Crimea.
Anyway, Crimea was historically a part of Russia for more than a century, and filled with ethnic Russians who apparently did not want to be dominated and used as cannon fodder by foreign powers.
For my own part, I don’t appreciate my tax dollars being taken for foreign aggression against people I have no quarrel with — nor does any normal American citizen.
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32

Troller
2 months ago
@a frickin american iam perfectly aware of russian navy being stationed in Crimea, as much as i aware that Russian soldiers were busy with Ukraine military. And also i am aware of Crimean history being part of Russia since imperial days. Does not remove the fact that Russia interfered in Ukraine because of the coup in Kiev.
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18

Paul Zx
2 months ago
@Troller Crimea case is an annexation, pure and simple.
When Hitler annex Austria – austrians were happiest people on the globe. How exactly such annexation was arranged – who cares. Never understand why my fellow Russians so angry about it. Putin annexed Crimea and its OK.. Period.
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22

FirstName LastName
2 months ago
👉I could make this lecture significantly shorter.
US is “promoting democracy” in some countries. After that everyone can see the MILLIONS of refugees FROM those countries TO Europe.
Russia is “aggressively annexed” Crimea. After that everyone can see exactly ZERO of refugees FROM Crimea TO Europe.
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36

Владимир Сергеевич
2 months ago (edited)
@jim carrington how many OBJECTIVE observers are present on US elections? Russians, europeans, chinese? What? Zero? Why? Shut up then!
24

jim carrington
2 months ago (edited)
@Владимир Сергеевич good point X excellent point!
Not that they are not needed in US, they are. I would be the last person ‘they’ would trust, though I would love to do that, here there or anywhere, because I cannot be bribed, & I know nobody else like me.
Any ideas on how we can be sure? I will not shut up because we all need the truth more than money.
I have been homeless for 30 years, & I can do 30 more years. Can you, or can they?
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3

Lam rof
2 months ago
The man in this video is bubbly and talks too much. It is 2021 and there has been no war b/n the US and China over those Islands. In 2015 is predicted there will be ware in a year. Been 6 years and have not seen nada !
5

Lam rof
2 months ago
and he is a war monger who things in a 0 sum game. People like that are driving the US to the cliff.
8

Mr. Gray
2 months ago
This man has no idea what drives Russians. It is not some mysterious thread from NATO. It’s their pure desire to occupy neighbors. Simple.
If county, even weakest one like Estonia, is in NATO – they unable to occupy it. So they demanding their victims stay helpless.
So NATO isn’t a thread to Russia, it is an obstruction for their plans.
And this man basically said that US should “respect” those plans and let Russians occupy whoever they want because it is in “their sphere of interest”. Wise man. Like people who said the same about Hitler and Germany in 1938
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36

qwer
2 months ago
Cool. Did you know that the US rehearsed a nuclear strike against Russia last month? Warmongering does require sophistication, but you shouldn’t buy it.
13

Paul Zx
2 months ago (edited)
@qwer Cmon, any armed forces have plans and preparations for any possible scenario. Russians trained to bomb Baltic states – its official agenda for last year exercises, so what? Nobody should pay attention to such developments, even if media go histerical about it.
US Army officially have plans to repel alien invasion, btw.
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9

Paul Zx
2 months ago (edited)
@Mr. Gray Why then Russians sitting idle for so long. Only take Crimea so far – not exactly against will of crimeans, btw. Russia use force very sparingly, while US carpetbombing whoever they wants. I tired to hear about Russian agression for so many years. I mean – we all know how agressive Russia really looks. Russian tanks in Berlin, Russian cossacks in Paris, Russian nukes in Cuba – thats agression. Border conflict with Ukraine is not. We talk about nuclear power with first class superior military who able to wipe literally anything 300 miles from Russian border and almost anything on the rest of the globe. Russians able to rearrange stones in Brussels with conventional weapons, no nukes.
Show me one historical example of state with comparable might – and so peaceful as modern Russia is.
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13

Slave
2 months ago
@Paul Zx potatoes came from the Incas in south america. Thank you south american Incas from a proud Russian American. That had to grow them every year.
2

Paul Zx
2 months ago
@Slave “potatoes” here – poor, uneducated, one track minded people. Putin’ slaves.
and we call Ukrainians “ukrops” – a dill. Not because Ukraine and ukrop sound similar – because dill have such strong aroma you cannot hide in any dish. So is Ukrainian internet warriors – easily recognizable everywhere they appears. Cheers.
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4

Slave
2 months ago (edited)
@Paul Zx ukrop is good on fish too.
3

Paul Zx
2 months ago
@Slave in Russia – ukrop is good anywhere. foreigners scared as hell by omnipresence of ukrop in Russia. its like a chili in Mexico – you always get some even if you hate it.
2

I K
2 months ago
What you call Eastern Ukraine, it was part of Russia before the 1917 Revolution. Lenin and his comrades Bolsheviks took that territory from Russia and declared it part of Ukraine. Here is why Bolsheviks did that: in 1917, Ukraine was 100 percent agrarian. According to Marxist theory, revolutions were done by proletariat, not farmers. Russia’s territory east of Ukraine was heavily industrialized then. So, Lenin “transferred” it to Ukraine, along with all the Russians who lived there – so that Lenin could say that there was proletariat in Ukraine. In 2014, the new authorities in Ukraine declared collaborators of Nazi Germany as Ukrainian heroes. They even named a street in Kiev after Stepan Bandera, a Ukrainian who served in German Army in WW2 and was in charge of Ukrainian nationalists, who were executing Jewish, Russian, Belarus and Polish civilians. Naturally, native Russians of what you call “Eastern Ukraine” do not want to be part of that. It is very educational how the US banks and corporations supported German Nazis in WW2 and now support Ukrainians, who praise war criminals who collaborated with German Nazis in WW2. The circle of history closing – returning to where it started, revealing true identities behind the masks.
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14

icenine135
2 months ago
@jim carrington those treasures were then given to US by Yatsenuk in person with pomp and circumstance.
1

icenine135
2 months ago
@jim carrington I don’t have to believe. I’m an American citizen with Russian/Ukrainian roots who grew up in Ukraine – my relatives in Crimea did not want to remain in Ukraine, and are called Crimean not Ukrainian. Go call Texans, Canadian and see how well that works for you.
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6

icenine135
2 months ago
@Paul Zx because Paul Crimeans never were Ukrainian, didn’t consider themselves Ukrainian and when they had a the chance they left. I’m Eastern Ukrainian and my relatives in Crimea never called themselves Ukrainian.
5

jim carrington
2 months ago
@icenine135 believe what?
yes, I’m sure some Crimeans want to stay & some don’t & there are probably some who have changed their minds. I am not the one counting votes.
My whole point is that Americans did not start this, as imperialism.
I am not trying to say America does no wrong, just a disagreement with the title, US is not responsible.
Crimeans, Ukrainians, & Russians should be able to determine for themselves. (as your relatives have done)
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10

Slave
2 months ago (edited)
@jim carrington are yah blind boy. Whos running bombing drills on the ukraine border. Whoes bringing there war ships into the black sea. America is. America is definatly picking a fight. Democrats are just racist russia phobes that start fights.
6

Brendon O’Connell III
2 months ago
This is a terrible, one sided and partisan lecture from a supposed academic. I hope he’s changed his tune now. Russia is in bed with China and Israel on The Belt and Road. Putin needs to be contained and slapped back into his Oligarch dictator hole. Kssinger & associates put Putin in…now he must go. General Lebed was the real Russian nationalist.
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13

Millie HaTule
2 months ago
@Mr. Gray Cuba. We are still nutty about it. PTSD.
Ukraine on Russia border. Making Russia insecure is madness.
9

Millie HaTule
2 months ago
@Paul Zx The US is the war mongering nation. Fortunately China and Russia will counter this. Hopefully they succeed.
8

Seb. S.
1 month ago
The fact that the EU and NATO are aggressively expanding to the east is a very simplified illustration. These extensions were voluntary additions. Even Turkey stood in line for many years as a new member of the EU. Many ex-members of the Warsaw Pact are afraid of Russia and therefore seek protection in the West.
Putin’s problem is less the EU than NATO, namely the possibility that American weapons and troops could be stationed directly in front of the Russian border. (In addition, there are regular elections in the USA and a sane person does not always end up in the White House who acts in foreign policy as if he were an adult, for example by suddenly terminating military agreements.) Russia trades successfully and quite harmoniously with the EU.
Establishing Ukraine as a buffer between East and West would be a violation of the right to self-determination. In view of the geographic and ethnic conditions in Ukraine, splitting the country would be the most sustainable solution.
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11

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Slave Both parties are war hawks, & if either is worse. it is definitely the red team. Always has been.
You must be young to no know the history. Either way you want to spin it, makes no difference to me.
I am not, & never have been, red or blue team. They both take massive bribes from MIC lobbyists.
Lobbying by the MIC AND the various corporations is the whole problem.
What in the world makes you think a disabled or elderly homeless person would want all the money going to wealthy defense contractors? Must you go blind to see? Have your own team of lobbyists?
How do you not identify the real problem? You really think they fight wars without taxpayer money?
You think politicians would give our taxpayer money without being bribed by lobbyists?
Where are the lobbyists for the poor? The disabled? The homeless this Christmas?
You are cruel, kid! CRUEL! I will be homeless, in my vehicle tomorrow, happy holidays!
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4

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Slave You must be hard headed. Go ask those democrats, if nobody voted republican, then nobody would vote democrat. Both parties say the same thing. Both parties are bribed by the wealthy.
4

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Slave When you rail against the libs, you are the problem. You are excusing the lobbyists on your own team, who give all the tax breaks & all the corporate welfare away. STOP voting for evil 1%, as there is no such thing as less evil.
2

heavenly777 protector
1 month ago
Simple? no but clear YES.
it’s not always Simple.
2

Toby Webb
1 month ago
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
H. L. Mencken
5

Toby Webb
1 month ago
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
H. L. Mencken
4

Sorry Wrong Planet
1 month ago
@Troller everyone except Russian aggression is to blame then? Pftt!
6

Sorry Wrong Planet
1 month ago
@Mr. Gray Exactly!
1

Troller
1 month ago
@Sorry Wrong Planet are you blind? Or you just didn’t read what i wrote? Russia is to blame too, just as US, just as Ukrainian politicians, who took power.
1

Troller
1 month ago
@I K Bandera didn’t exactly served in german military. He wanted to work with Nazi, that is true, but they never used him. He was more of a hostage. Does not make him any better though, fact that he tried to work with nazi speaks volumes about him.
2

Troller
1 month ago
@Mr. Gray if Russia wanted to occupy, why they didn’t occupied Georgia then? Because by your logic, Russians should have done it, and yet they didn’t. Russians are not the good guys, but you clearly don’t understand russian politics.
7

Anthony Gregory
1 month ago
@Paul Zx
This is a pro Satanist socialist double speak garbage.
Stinking deep state.
2

Paul Zx
1 month ago
@Seb. S. Repeating CNN propaganda didn’t help. We (Russians) are well aware about brain content of average westernite.
3

Vadim Tokarchuk
1 month ago (edited)
“Ukraine is going to be wrecked”… I wish to see how the speaker would say this to widows, mothers and children of soldiers who gave their life for Ukraine in Donbass and Crimea.
11

Slave
1 month ago
@jim carrington you think the dumbocrats dont give the uber rich tax breaks and exclusive deals. You are mistaken.
3

Slave
1 month ago
The corporations made billions under democrat control in this pandemic. Phizer is litterally rolling around in new capitol. Did they make a efective vaccine. No they didn’t. But they got paid. Fast food giants like McDonald’s were the only ones allowed to opperate. You walk into mega grocery stores and its business as usual. But most of the mom and pop stores were forced and treatened to shut down. Dimbocrats are narcisist hypocrits.
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4

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Slave Both political parties are pretty much the same, in the way they accept bribery.
The republicans give the big tax breaks to the wealthy, & the democrats have made the biggest cut to the food stamp program in its history. You have only strengthened my opinion that extinction would be best.
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Slave
1 month ago
@jim carrington the left just pushes regulations and control. These regulations get taken out of workers paychecks wether they are aware of it or not. The tax breaks are pretty much for small business. But the left just bastardasises it and says the mega corporations get all the breaks.
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4

icenine135
1 month ago
@Troller nah just your average uneducated, Nazi loving Western Ukrainian, thinking he’s funny because we all know that a single man runs the all politics in government, in every single country on the planet. (Sarcasm)
1

icenine135
1 month ago
@Vadim Tokarchuk Crimeans didn’t for Ukraine. Stop selling the nonsense.
1

icenine135
1 month ago
@jim carrington Crimeans did decide for themselves. It’s entertaining to listen to you talk about places you’ve never been to, didn’t talk to the population, have no idea about the culture, yet here you are giving your opinion from thousands of miles away.
6

jim carrington
1 month ago
@icenine135 you have an agenda, so you are unable to read my words accurately
i see no point in further communication with a brainwashed agent of some kind
5

jim carrington
1 month ago
@icenine135 that is the reason you have russian soldiers on your border?
return to your russian troll farm & bring somebody smarter than you – flunked
6

Ross Smith
1 month ago
@Sergei Saltan hi Craig. Go for it. Ross

Senior-Frontend-Developer
1 month ago
Sorry, I could watch only the first 30 minutes. West is evil, and it’s all their fault. All this talk is a big piece of Russian propaganda. Vladimir Putin is bright, and he is not the leading cause of the conflict. And nobody cares about Ukrainians as a nation and what do they want! Inferior analysis, missing a lot of KEY POINTS ON PURPOSE, twisted facts, manipulative talk. I wouldn’t be surprised if the professor is a KGB agent of China or Russia.
First of all, the professor is making one big mistake here. He never brought up Ukrainian interests here. Yanukovich came to power through a democratic election, promising to head to the West. It’s not what the West wants, and it’s not what Russia wants – IT’S WHAT UKRAINIANS WANTS! People are willing to be independent and live normal democratic life. When Yanukovich suddenly changed his mind, people pushed him away. The majority of the nation was supporting the Revolution of Dignity. Even Doneck and Lugansk! With all propaganda and pro-Russian people living there, they couldn’t find anyone to start “separation from Ukraine”.If you don’t believe it, here are some facts.
First taken city Slavyanks was by Russian army colonel Igor Girkin. The first president of DNR was Alexander Borodai, a Russian citizen and the right hand of Vladislav Surkov! Vladislav Surkov was assistant to the President of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin. He has direct contact with the President of Russia. Many facts show that the Russian army started these conflicts in the south. Every Ukrainian know this.
17:48
Coup? Are you kidding? It was Revolution of Dignity, professor. You are using the Russian propaganda dictionary, and only they use coup definition.
19:45
“Yanukovich overreact to the protest”? OMG, professor! It was the KEY POINT!!! On the night of November 29-30, 2013, Berkut riot police brutally attacked dozens of activists, primarily youths, after which hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians took to the streets of Ukrainian cities.
19:53
And again, the professor missed KEY POINT! Special Representative of the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Lukin, who participated in the negotiations, refused to put his signature under the agreement. The agreement provided a return to the 2004 Constitution, that is, to a parliamentary-presidential form of government, holding early presidential elections before the end of 2014 and forming a “government of national trust”.
20:17
“…significant fascist elements among the protestors…” such nonsense. It is just lies, filthy, unacceptable lies.
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14

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Senior-Frontend-Developer I agree completely!
The government began shooting & killing the protesters with snipers on rooftops, using live rounds.
This professor must be paid by russians.
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10

footy vids
1 month ago
@jim carrington bro the government didn’t use snipers it was the the new government and the usa, there was a leaked video of foreign ministers or Estonia and eu saying the snipers were due to the new government. To this day there has been no investigation, on who shot the police and protesters
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3

footy vids
1 month ago
@Senior-Frontend-Developer odessa massacre
2

footy vids
1 month ago
@jim carrington there has been no investigation into who used snipers, just think about that
3

Senior-Frontend-Developer
1 month ago
@footy vids Yes, Odessa 1941 massacre was terrible.
4

footy vids
1 month ago
@Senior-Frontend-Developer it happened in 2014 genuis
3

Senior-Frontend-Developer
1 month ago
@footy vids Buddy, do you even realise what’s the massacre is? Grow up a little bit boy.
3

jim carrington
1 month ago
@footy vids I saw it myself, & this was before the old president left, so before there was a new government
while the shooting was taking place occupy was streaming their video live
you should forget those sources of yours with their agendas
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6

jim carrington
1 month ago
@footy vids next, you will be telling the US government did not have snipers on the roof here
I saw them myself too, just no shots fired
1

jim carrington
1 month ago
@footy vids you can rely on the warren commission too, but I don’t

jim carrington
1 month ago
@footy vids has their been an investigation of those men in black uniforms & no insignia who took over all of the police stations been investigated?
has that election afterward in Crimea been investigated to see if it was legit?
5

jim carrington
1 month ago
read the title to this video again – why is Ukraine the west’s fault?
It is not the west’s fault! The US gov. had no involvement in the early stages.
Your sources are dishonest, along with this professor.
8

Paul Zx
1 month ago (edited)
@Senior-Frontend-Developer US need allies to project power offshore. This is how you expand your empire. Occupy country, change govt to pro-US, defend. Rinse and repeat. Nothing wrong with this policy. Good old imperialism. You are same imperialistic shark as Russia. We both swimming in blood of our victims.
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Paul Zx
1 month ago
@jim carrington US govt are PRIDE about his involvement, wtf? You not deny it.
2

Realpolitik Santa
1 month ago
I understand Russia’s stance. We almost fought a world war over nuclear missiles in Cuba. 90 miles away from the US. Now the US is expanding NATO towards Russia’s borders. We need to chill and relax.
6

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Realpolitik Santa I agree.
I also see how those countries, like Ukraine, may want protection.
Would NATO protect them right now? Can’t that be arranged without any arms race? or costs?
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1

Paul Zx
1 month ago (edited)
@jim carrington why NATO should protect Ukraine who not in NATO? I’m deadly serious on this and eager for your response.
2

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Paul Zx why should the police protect you, from me? you are not part of the police
1

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Paul Zx who decides if ukraine joins nato? who makes the rules anywhere? the strongest?
4

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Paul Zx you are the one trying to decide for others, not me
3

Realpolitik Santa
1 month ago
@jim carrington Huh? Ukraine seeking “protection” from NATO is pretty much the reason this crisis started. NATO expansion to former USSR republics was denied by America after the fall of the USSR. Now they are expanding…
This crisis is 100% the west’s fault.
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5

Paul Zx
1 month ago (edited)
@jim carrington Please, answer my question. NATO supposedly a defensive alliance created to protect NATO members from external attack. Ukraine not a NATO member. Why should NATO protect Ukraine? Or, by your means – why should US po!ice officer protect citizens of say Namibia or Norway?
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jim carrington
1 month ago
@Realpolitik Santa you are flat wrong about the way this began (so is this professor)
if you were not in occupy, you probably did not see & hear from the protesters who began this
4

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Realpolitik Santa stop listening to cheato, who did not know what NATO was when taking office
4

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Paul Zx i can see you have your mind made up, twisting & ignoring anything I write
let me know when you seek the truth, goodbye
4

jim carrington
1 month ago (edited)
@Paul Zx Like Putin, you should quit pretending you decide for others, as you & Putin can get yourself & your loved ones hurt &/or killed. You decide nothing for anyone but yourself.
6

jim carrington
1 month ago
cheato & his lawyer have made a mess, by teaching the opposite of what hunter biden tried to teach
cheato has taught that corruption at the highest levels is wonderful & pretend hunter’s job was corrupt
Corruption of Russian puppets is what started all this, not NATO or the west.
Hunter was qualified, in Ukrainian officials opinion, to identify & root out corruption.
I think they should have chosen somebody like me, but you & they do not know me or my qualifications.
I’m not the one who is trying to dictate from an agenda, but I’m pretty good at finding truth.
Each and every time that any human speaks, (like YOU) their thoughts are simultaneously BROADCAST
in a much richer way than can be fit into words.
If you think that is based upon belief, that is your problem & I understand your reasons.
I simply remember before they taught me verbal language. (bet you do not, if you disagree)
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2

Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@Janez Jonsa ye better take your medicine

Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@jim carrington yes Jim, the first sensible voice I have heard. Both parties are totally corrupt, they sell Capotalism so that the rich get richer, and the American Dream is to keep everyone’s back to the wheel and workibg hard for the shareholders

Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@jim carrington don’t believe everything you see James.
1

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Liam Oconlocha yes, they show us division while working together behind the scenes, & always for the 1%
1

Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@FirstName LastName promoting democracy coming from the U
S. very hypocritical
2

Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@Lam rof oh man, look at the weapons crossing the borders daily. And not many from the so called democracy

Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
You.missed the main point, they are promoting democracy so that the markets can be extended for the 1%, imagine if Russia fell, there’s a huge uptapped market for the greedy 1p.c. Cuba is not bad, Cuba is not Capitalist and so it is an enemy, and so lots of propaganda about how bad Cuba is Venezuela, lots of pil for the greedy, the same as Irak and Libya. This is not democracy, it’s government by the rich and powerful
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3

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Liam Oconlocha If only occupy in usa would have been as serious as Ukrainians,
we may have never seen cheato in politics.
Before the election, media could have told us that he was a millionaire at 8 years old,
or that his uncle was one of the first federal agents in Tesla’s apartment when he died.
They could have told us that 5 hours after the “rusher if you’re listening” speech, the
Russians had hacked the DNC computers. No, we learn so much later, that nobody hears it.
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4

FirstName LastName
1 month ago
@Liam Oconlocha >”promoting democracy coming from the US very hypocritical”
That is why this phrase is in a double quotes. 🙂
1

Piete Koo
1 month ago
Funny thing, but Putin is “pro_American. He consistenly have expressed a sincere wish to have dialogue and cooperation with USA. It is clear that USA is the one who does not want any cooperation.
7

Phil Mathieu
1 month ago
Yes, having lived and worked in the former USSR this is an excellent presentation of the Russian perspective. So, given that this is NOT complicated to understand, either the US has a history of electing idiots into positions of power OR we need to ask whose interests are all those provocative NATO policies serving?
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3

Seb. S.
1 month ago
@Paul Zx You have a huge amount of opinion based on so little amount of arguments
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Tatyana Polikarpova
1 month ago
@Paul Zx хххххххххх

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Piete Koo nonsense, no real reply needed here, so let me know when you are ready to search for TRUTH

Piete Koo
1 month ago
@jim carrington Thanks. Please give me a concise factual account of your opinion. I want to weigh input of all sides. I do not want patriotism to make decisions. Only clear facts.

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Piete Koo The west, or USA did not start this.
Ukrainians threw their leader out, without help from the US.
The protesters were fed up with the corruption of their pro-russian government.
(joining the EU or not, was not their primary issue, same with NATO)
Trump has made a mess, by teaching the same kind of dishonest corruption that Ukraine has fought against, but it doesn’t make usa responsible, as this professor contends, for other false reasons.
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Vadim Tokarchuk
1 month ago
@icenine135 those who voted for Russia are brainwashed and deceived. Actually the whole of nation of RF are deceived and live in most profound illusion.
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kofferfischii
1 month ago
@jim carrington And now we have clowns. Potemkins villages. The golden girl. Germany did support corruption. We should close this pipeline. This is not about attitude.

kofferfischii
1 month ago
@jim carrington He is a serious prof. Dont try to make him bad.

jim carrington
1 month ago
@kofferfischii agreed, but the 99% will just wait & see what the wealthiest 1% do, as always

jim carrington
1 month ago
@kofferfischii Agreed!
I give him credit for speaking out against the lobbyists of the jews, in another video, which very few will do.
I guess he is just misinformed by corporate media, with their agenda. Its far too common in USA today.
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Peter MacLean
1 month ago
@Brian Pompei ??

kofferfischii
1 month ago
@jim carrington You are completely confused. Read Isaac Babel if you want to dig the Ukraine. Or a short history of Russia. From the beginning.

jim carrington
1 month ago
@kofferfischii I’m familiar with the history. I simply disagree with blaming this mess on the west.
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kofferfischii
1 month ago
@jim carrington You have not listened to him. His theory is that Russia was peacefull after the end of the Soviet Union and that the West started to expand his empire. Your idea is freedom of choice. But this is just another name for empire.
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Mindaugas
1 month ago
Thank god i nreality nobody listens to such useful idiots like this professor.
5

kofferfischii
1 month ago
@Mindaugas There are a lot of realists around. Ask Kissinger.
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taylorjmark
1 month ago
@Roman Roman Putin’s puppet
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taylorjmark
1 month ago
@Troller This is true. It may take three generations to rid Ukraine of the corruption.

Mindaugas
1 month ago
@kofferfischii Fuck Kissinger. That piece shit has bring us where we are now.
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kofferfischii
1 month ago
@Mindaugas You cant change the world.

Roman Roman
1 month ago
Ukraine needs protection from russia as this country is an aggressor and owns nukes. That is as true as we are human beings
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Mindaugas
1 month ago
@kofferfischii Yes, and the world is rules based. You can’t change the world just because some dictator wants.
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kofferfischii
1 month ago
@Mindaugas My rule, your rule.

GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
Actually it is just russian propaganda. Otherwise Hitler is also a victim right? Jews is guilty for what he did to them right? Not him, but them right?
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller no, we got what we protested for, but russians attacked us and russians killed 15000 people, thats the only thing all of you miss. Actually if you ask anyone who was at revolution(because it was an actual revolution mostly cultural), he would say “i will do it again”
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito wasn’t there for some reason but would be if needed again
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@a frickin american annex – look at the definition in soviet dictionary
“Annexation – is an occupation and integration of foreign lands, also holds false referendums in order to maintain borgoise rules”. So called referendum is a joke, also look at medals “for liberation of crimea” in russian federation, date on this medals starts even before Yanukovitch flee the country. Also Putin himself called occupation (or annexation) a special forces operation in crimea. All you said is a russian propaganda, this has nothing to do with reality.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Roman Roman thats also true. My father and uncle was at maidan, i know other people who was, and they will do it again if needed, i was not old enough for protests, but if state will do what i exactly do not want them to do i will go for protests, as always happens in Ukraine, even just walking by in Kyiv i often see the protests. Even recently against Zelenskiy there was protests, because ukrainians wants to be free especially from russia, thats the main reason why maidan happened
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito right. I am actually in Kyiv and can only say that yanukovych started the coup with shooting at peaceful protests
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito really? You still got corruption, oligarchy and your country dependent on outside support. Your “revolution” is nothing but empty promises. And this is sad, truly. You were screwed by your own politics, by russians and by the west. Truly, a sad story.
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito and there is nothing cultutal in your “revolution”. Sorry, but it was more rapid development of nationalism.

Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito even with Hitler’s rise to power you can see, that West Entente partially responsible for creating this monster. Case with Ukraine is even more gray, because Russia is not Third Reich and Putin is not a second Hitler. But your bias on this topic limits your ability to understand situation correctly.
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Troller
1 month ago
@taylorjmark i doubt this is a good idea to even try to estimate how long it would take to lessen corruption (you cannot completely remove corruption, especially if you are talking about former USSR territories).
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller russia is exactly third reich and putin is exactly hitler. He several times attacked other countries, burned grozniy to the ground, repressions in russia, even ethnical. It is very clearly not only the thing that russia is responsible for war because they started it without any reason (ukrainians never attacked or provoked russia), but the thing that you are cremlin bot or useful dummie :3
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller go back to russia ivan
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Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago (edited)
@Piete Koo not funny the Democrats want you to believe there are Reds under your bed, it keeps you scared
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Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@Paul Zx great argument, well discussed

Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@Brendon O’Connell III spoken like a true believer in this nonsense about Putin, look at who started the last 9 wars
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Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@Millie HaTule the same insecurity that gave you the Bat of Pigs
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito many leaders attacked different countries, and many countries for variety of reasons. Yet you compare Russia (country with no national idea, ruled by oligarchy with no war economy and dependant on a world economy) with Third Reich and Putin (a man with no plans or grand ideas) with Hitler (a fanatic who actually had plans and “grand ideas). You clearly prove my point about you being biased and too blind to the simple truth. And i am not holding that agaisnt you, you are victim, as your country is a victim. Sucks in my opinion.
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito iam half ukrainian Mr. Victim.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller you can not being half pregnant
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller no war economy…. just do your research or whatsoever. No grand plans lol, but there it is USSR 2.0. I did proper research of this topic, russian economy gives everything it has to army, taxes and such a things is increasing while internal problems is ignored, war economy do not necessary means everyone works at military factories 24/7, but there is frozen pensions, taxes, “we have no money but you should get over this”, militarization of society (junior army which is like hitler jugend), continious non stop propaganda about ukraine being “fascist and evil” and so on. Clear fascist regime which treats any country nearby. I can give you hundreds of evidence or facts and you always will be “this is not true, your evidence is not evidence” in any case because this is how you work
You also prove my point of view that you are russian
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Piete Koo
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito Just to start off you are not accurate with your facts. Russia is but nr 7 on the list of percentage budget spend on defense. Russia has brought healthcare to a new level. People don’t need to bankrupt themselves to obtain decent medical care unlike USA. Unemployment is down etc etc. Why are people vilifying Putin? He has not come close to invading a country under false pretenses and threw it in a turmoil like USA has done in Iraq .
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito this is not war economy pal, and there is no USSR 2.0. Closest thing was Eurasian Union, but it is dead, and while internal problems are ignored, they are not ignored in favour of military. They are ignored because of corruption. If anything, this issues started from 2008 and so on. If you would have been correct about Russia being equal of the Reich, Ukraine already would have been either heavy fighting on all fronts, or occupied. Same with Georgia (which would have been easier to occupy unlike Ukraine). About Chechen, you are wrong. Grozny was destroyed during rule of the first president of Russia, Yeltsin.
Second bit, i never called Ukraine “fascist and evil”, your country are ruled by the same corrupt officials, just like in Russia. And this whole war, a tragedy in my opinion – result not of the “dreams of restoration of USSR”, but simple bickering between several “clans” of oligarchs, with West being involved too. And little peope like yourself are nothing but potential meatbags for this stupid conflict. Russia is not a good guy in that, this fact i achnowledge. But neither do yours politics, or western. And origin of this conflict is more than just Putin being Hitler.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
​ @Piete Koo you are so delusional. Idk where you saw decent medical care in russia, only in moscow, sometimes. In USA is much much better healthcare that russia, you have never been in russia, probably watched those “putin come to hospital and there is hypertech things which actually not”. 7 number in percentage for military is more than any country which matters in that case. Why do you think russian army is on top 2 in the world best armies. 24% of budget is going for military. I am very accurate, you just do not see the whole picture. 24% of budget in 2016. And it grows even bigger. What is this? clearly not a war economy right? USA is 15%, Germany 11%. Ok then, now it is like about 20% +- but there is one big problem, 15% of budget is in secret, why do you think this happened?)))
so totally not a war economy right?
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller russian propaganda always say ukraine is fascist and evil, you misinterped what i say. No, modern wars is different, if hitler was in 2021 there would be militants in danzig which wants to join germany, and we all know where their weapons comes from.
war economy is not when people work 24/7 at factories, it is when spending on military is increasing during to preparing/or existing war, 24% is somewhat inadequate when you always have lack of money in regions, when schools do not have warm toilets or there is not proper roads so it really hard to get into any city/village so people dying because 102 is not going, or no money for forest fires. This is what exactly happens
ignoring problems because of corruption, it is side reason not the main, they simply increase military spending with no reason, why should they? who wants to invade russia?
grozniy was destroyed by prime minister putin, did you know anything about “sugar” in houses and “trainings”?)))) i do not claim like he did it, but it could happened
ussr 2.0 is not the plan for putin himself but the plan as national idea of russia. Ask anyone in russia you will get your answer. They treatens any latvian(i do not remember how) ukrainian(hohols), belarusian(bylbash) kazahs, chechen(churka) as inner people. Russian have literally no respect for other countries, because they think that this is their country and they rule here, they have to be treatened like bosses here. This is what russian idea is, about russian superiority, russian world in other words. Of course they wont tell you it directly, you have to believe russians more they never lie about anything
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
Today russian supreme court took decision on dissolvement of Memorial – organization that cared of repressed and oppressed. Congrats to comrad putin
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito i did not misinterped nothing, i’ll addressed your points about me, being Ivan and etc. And truth be told, there is no way we know, what would Hitler done if he lived in our time, admit it, you just projecting. Reality is, Putin is not Hitler. You may hate him, call him names, but you cannot compare one with another.
No, this means that your resources are limited, your control of the regions are limited and as it othen happens, priorities shifts. Also this is kinda goes for all countries, military budgets growing for many countries. And you asking about invasion of Russia, but this is not about invsion in Russia itself, it is about invasion in theirs supposed (from Russian perspective) sphere of influence. And considering NATO remained, despite USSR fall, and it expanded. Plus considering US agressive politics, that only fuels paranoia.
Grozny was in ruins long before Putin rise to power. Do you remember when it was the first war?
USSR 2.0 is non-existent, no one among current political elite would really consider that. Whatever they say one thing is clear, modern Russia lack ideology and any resemblance of direction. And the things you speaking about – simple populism, something Ukraine and Russia have in common. Just look at every conflict Russia participated, alsmot none of it planned, Russia usualy reacted. 2008 in Georgia – reaction towards invasion, 2014 – reaction towards coup and “revolution”. In both cases attempts to use ongoing conflict to weaken country, but never fully occupy. Crimea being exeption for obvious reason – military bases are there.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller putin is well russian hitler. killings of litvinenko, politkovskaya, nemtsov are signs of his ruling as was Hakenkreuz that of nazi
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman do you know how many rulers killed their opposition and had no ties with nazi? Be more creative lmao
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Jack Jones
1 month ago
@Sergei Saltan I don’t agree with the speaker but believe it’s important to listen to him. He seems to be influential so needs to be understood. How do you refute ideas which you don’t understand? I don’t say to agree with them but learn his argument to counter it.
What is your view of the situation and what should be done? Please, I’d like to have an intelligent discussion.
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Dunja Ivanovna
1 month ago
American propaganda and lies. All information is available on the Internet. There is no Ukrainian nation. These are the Russians who were forcibly Ukrainianized by the Austro-Hungarians and Germany, and then by Stalin and the Bolsheviks.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago (edited)
Neither politkovskaya nor litvinenko were opposition. They just did their jobs in press and security services respectively until they were murdered (( that’s what russia is about
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Dunja Ivanovna and you are just crazy person. That is as true as what you have written
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Dunja Ivanovna
1 month ago
​ @Roman Roman is it is all your arguments

Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Dunja Ivanovna I am living here in Kyiv and you tell me that I do not exist))) what more can be my argument?
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman Litvinenko was not in oppsition? The guy who litteraly betrayed his superiors? Regardless, you dont need to be a part of any party to be in oppostion. And you think press workers and members of security services only murdered by russians? And this is why you compare them with nazi? How many press workers had been murdered in Ukraine? Or in any other countrie?
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller litvinenko is like a Windman, but russia isn’t rule of law state
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Laqueefa Steinberg
1 month ago
The west is controlled by ISRAEL, so really its israel’s fault. Same for JFK, seo11th, and the current pandemic.
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Victor Zed Wings
1 month ago (edited)
@Paul Zx , you don’t uderstand what are you talking about.
Read laws of your own country.
You’re nothing and you own nothing. Just read this carefully:
According to Russian law, land belongs to those who can civilize it.
And that was the Hrushev who said: “In the south there are southern people needed for land to prosper”, and he invited Ukrainian people to Crimea.
They built houses and roads. So according to Russian law this land now belongs to Ukrainians.
In Russian law says: land of the Russia is the property of Gosudar’. – Not of the Russian people.
And Russian have to buy land from “Gosudarstvo”. But they also can rent it. And if they have developed civilization on that land, they can privatize it or buy for 1% or so, of cadastr cost.
This is what Ukrainians actually did – they had been invited by “Gosudarstvo”, and developed the land.
So Russia now can get lost from there. Because it has given Crimea to Ukraine by its own hands.
Besides Russia reaps the land of Russian people exterminating forests and resources. Leaving people to live in enslavery, with miserable salaries.
Russian people are very ineducated about their rights. Actually they’ve been robbed of their rights by russian Gosudar at the first place, then by Soviet Union, And they by criminal government. Ignorance and madness are going to thrive all over Russian land very soon, because there is no hope for this nation to wake up and power up their brains.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman does not make it Third Reich pal. Opposition silenced in many countries even today, your country in this list too.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller medvedchuk is collaborating with russia so his silencing is not free speech assault. All the other are broadcasting, esp. Inter etc.

Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman first, don’t be a hypocrite, just accept that as simple fact, that your country got this trait too. Second – only one name? Are you sure? You fighting a lost cause here, just accept that comparison between modern Russia and Third Reich are stupid.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller oh absolutely no! As of brutality russians are surely in the rear but there are several fascism features where russian bear is far ahead of 3rd Reich, just look carefully

Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman majority of countries could show this features. You know why? Let me spoil it for ya, but keep it to yourself, its a secret. So, the great secret is – they are universal for many countries despite their regime or ideology. Just fookin admit it, you are projecting. You can hate Russia, call Putin funny names, but comparing Russia to Reich is stupid. If Russia were resembling Reich at least in half, Ukraine would be in real war or occupied already. Nothing like that happened, yet.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller it is in progress now with alarmingly accelerating speed. Seemingly knowing russia you just should widely close own eyes to not acknowledging the facts

Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman it is not about facts pal, it is about understanding a difference and interpretation. Your bias and dislike makes you believe that Russia is like Third Reich, which is stupid. Iam not arguing about Russia being innocent, we both know they are not. I am arguing about your delusional view on it.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller you present even less facts than I do. And sure there is actually no unbiased 3rd party to make informed judgement. But to my despair I see little chance for at least europe to not to be forced into those mire again. The only thing is putin cannot fight like an ordinary war, he must do covert actions what simply backfires under new information realities
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kofferfischii
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito ÖPure nonsense. This is not about victims, but about agresssion and the question who did start it. It is about power.

kofferfischii
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito You are a kid.

GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@kofferfischii i do not say about victims, putin invaded ukraine like hitler invaded poland. If putin is innocent for this then hitler is also?
My messages gets deleted because i mention hitler lol.
Also i am a kid, wow nice argumentation, you are so based man.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller hitler invaded poland, putin invaded ukraine. Both because they wanted influence, all the story is the same. Also about russians, look up there is one claiming like ukrainians do not exist.
Also all my replies to you gets deleted because i mention hitler lol, youtube is so nice that i can not send any link, or mention hitler lol, i love youtube
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kofferfischii
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito This is old history. Like — hopefully — Isaac Babel. What matters is the history after the breakdown of the Soviet Union. And IMHO Mearsheimer is right. Thanks.

GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller russian military budget should be counted in ppp, because entire army is self made, by their own technoligies, so their military budget is far higher than 70 billions, like by 3 times. There are concerns about it, read something in internet about this, because it is clearly imposible for such corrupted state have such a big and modernized army. Where do money came from? From frozen pensions, and so on also.
They is focusing on military.
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Anant Kulkarni
1 month ago
@Paul Zx as ko no ji ji

Paul Zx
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito WTF??? Six millions Poles murdered by Nazi.

GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
​ @Paul Zx and 15000 ukrainians murdered by russia so what? Both of them is guilty for what they did and they have to get punishment for this, dont you understand that crime is still a crime no matter who did this
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito Influence? Hitler wanted influence? That’s funny, considering he wanted entire nations destroyed and replaced with his true arian folk. You are out of your mind if you compare two entirely different nations. About Ukrainians not existing, i know about that opinion, and i know it is not common. For all i know, once where were one Rus, but during all the historical events, three main branches were formed. I doubt that i need elaborate further.
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Paul Zx
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito By Russia? Wtf again… We not fight Ukrainians.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller actually russia is formed by finno-ugric tribes and during all of the history they were doing to ukraine exactly what germans did… russia already pushed 600 000 russians into crimea, they want ukraine to be populated by russians. Yes totally different to east europe populated by aryans…
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
​ @Troller What is kiev and what the coup? Because i lived in Kyiv and dont understand why this is ok for russia invading ukraine…

GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Paul Zx ahahaha ихтамнет. Thats why people should never believe russians. There was no russian military on Donbass, Moscow is third Rome, Monomah hat is real, Crimea referendum is not a fake and so on
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Paul Zx
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito you know the drill, good boy
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Paul Zx go back to russia ivan

Paul Zx
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito already there
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Dunja Ivanovna
1 month ago
@Roman Roman я ученый и меня не интересуют эмоции или проблемы с воспитанием или чувство злости то на евреев, то на русских, то на Малороссиян.

Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Dunja Ivanovna a scientist unable to communicate in English isn’t one at all (

Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller as right now russians start thinking of go back to death penal. Right the way to overrun nazi

aj
1 month ago
@Troller you say “people were used just for power grab”, but there were elections just few months later, and Yanukovych party collected much less only because of Yanukovychs’ crime and due to the fact that Crimea couldn’t vote.
So Putin who took Crimea away is to be blamed for the fall of the pro-Russian parties, that’s all.
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Roman Vasylenko
1 month ago
“Amazing explanation……..simple and clear.” except it’s lies mixed with truth

Dunja Ivanovna
1 month ago
@Roman Roman why not. Vulgarian Latin (English) is not my credo cause I neednt it for a long time.
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Embassy Lievskoi
1 month ago
You actually watched that all the way through?

Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Dunja Ivanovna no, lingua latina is just a dream. I can communicate in German and Chinese but not that ((. So what is your field of expertise?

Paul Zx
1 month ago (edited)
@aj No. Ukraine oligarch system create disposable parties. I mean every prominent politician/oligarch have its own party he funds. And this party dissolved if/when politician for some reason leave system. It was not pro-Russian party, a Yanukovich’ one. Once he flee to Russia – party was doomed.
Check parties who won previous election cycles. They not exist anymore as well.
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito ohh, finno-ugric tribes now i see what iam dealing with. Russians are freaking slavs in their majority lmao. Deal with it pal. Also, at this point i see no difference between you, and people who claims that Ukrainians are not existing. Your types worth each other, and basically the same, just change the narrative and you got it.
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito your old government were couped under pretence of “revolution”. And Russia invading Ukraine is not ok, i agree on that, but fooling entire nation into the belief, that everything changed, not good either. But, if your believe that your cause is just, and revolution was true, well iam not here to persuade you, and stick to your guns. But back to Third Reich and Russia, cases are different, situations are different, people are different.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman death penalty exist in USA, so what? Also your “facts” does not support your point, because they suit many examples beyond nazi. You just choose to compare russians with germans because this all situation is personal to you and you are biased. That’s a fact you cannot deny, everything else is irrelevant.
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Troller
1 month ago (edited)
@aj Yanukovich party would have lost regardless of the russian actions, also one point does not contradict the other one. People were used, whole “revolution” is just a beautiful word for patriots who cannot see the truth, and they won’t, because Russia made it easier for people in power to channel crowd energy against obvious enemy. Russians do the same thing towards USA and vice versa.
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Dunja Ivanovna
1 month ago
@Roman Roman я вас искренне поздравляю. И буду стараться исправится.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller they well use “Gleichschaltung”, they oppress opposition, they proclaim opposition foreign agents (short of “Volksfeinde”), they collect serious property under state umbrella, they command business, they manipulate the youngest… facts are plenty…. the only thing that makes them irresponsible are nukes. tschüss ciao arrivederci((
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Vancouver BC
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito ask your neighbours what they think about Ukraine. Ask Hungarians, ask Rumanians. How you respect the rights of different ethnic minorities in Ukraine.
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Vancouver BC
1 month ago
@Dunja Ivanovna A part of Ukraine is Romanian territory taken by force and occupy by Ukraine today. Another part is Hungarian.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
​ @Troller i was talking about times where rus was existing and princedom of moscow was clearly finno-ugric, such a blame for you to not know this simple fact. Russian language is church slavic, but their people, the way they speak, etc – it is not slavic, this is scientific fact. The only difference between ukrianians and russians, we know that we are not just slavic but even sarmatian, scythian and so on, but russians do not want to know their own history they want to think like they came from great slavs which controlled half of the world and was so smart that even god was not so. The difference is i want to know my history
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
​ @Troller what do you call coup? There was democratic elections after president flee the country, nobody forced him to. Protests were for elections, if there is elections how the hell it could be a coup? you are so delusional, if you do not know what happens in others countries please do not talk about it, because you fool other people.
Again – not a coup in any matter, there was democratic elections, Yanukovitch could even participate in them again, funny right?
Of course he flee the country, because he was corrupted and would be imprisoned for corruption, if he was not there will be no reasons to flee because protesters do not demand to imprison Yanukovitch, but to hold new elections.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Vancouver BC only 150 thousand of people speaks hungrian, and there IS 72 schools with ONLY hungrian language for education. In russia there IS 2 million of ukrainians, and in russia there is no, not even one ukrainian school. What the hell are you talking about? Not only ukrainian schools, there are only russian schools, no tatar schools (some claims like there is, but look into details and you will realize, even in russia everyone knows it), only russian.
What a cheap propaganda
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Vancouver BC thats not all, in Ukraine there is 72 hungrian schools while in Hungary there is zero ukrainian schools, so funny right?))
what a cheap propaganda
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Vancouver BC
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito you Ukrainians took and occupied Romanian land.
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Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@jim carrington funny thing is, that every time something big is promised to the American People, there are always puppets paid to vote against it, this make it looks like there were good intentions. What a joke!
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Vancouver BC we signed papers with Romania that we have no territorial claims to each others, so we are not. Most of Romanians will disagree with you

Troller
1 month ago (edited)
@Roman Roman opposition oppression – goes for many type of governments, propaganda among children too (USA included), though there are no strong propaganda among children in Russia (it not even close to what it was in USSR with pioneer movement, not even close to Hitler’ youths), business controlled – every socialist authorian country, and some right-ish goverments. If anything you want to get closer example – even Mussolini Italy would be better (still stretching though). My point is – you pick the worst possible option as example and compare it with country, that is mediocre in being a great evil. Russia is a corrupt oligarchy with authoritarian tendencies, that weak economy and modern feudalist elements (like Chechen region). Nothing close to what Third Reich was.
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito Muscovy that were formed by Rurikovich dynasty being finno-ugric? You are clearly speaking bullshit with that, and one that benefits propaganda of your country. It is not a scientific fact – it is a wishful thinking of people, that want their history being turned in such way to prove how independent they were and that Russians are entirely different from them. This is politics, not history. And you sir, suck at both
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito you are the only one who is fooling people lol, protests that ended up with blood and dead people, stops being just a protests, and they were used by opposition to take power. Also, you might wanna check out the examples of true revolutions, that actually changed everything, look at freakin october revolution, or check with USSR dissolution. This is revolutions, not yours attempts at it.
Also, Yanukovich participating in elections? Are that naive? After what happened in February, Yanukovich would have been lucky to be alive if he stayed. People have died for less in your country, and we both know, that Yanukovich deserved way more.
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jim carrington
1 month ago
@Liam Oconlocha yes, this time was i think more obvious than ever
Go back & look at the debate between obama & romney. The healthcare plan Romney offers was being used in Massachusetts, with Obama debating against, exactly what he offered after getting elected.
Obamacare ends up being his signature legislation, but was Republican Romney’s plan, already in use.
Then, the red ream pretends to fight it, while cheato is in office, but the whole time obamacare was just a way to prevent universal healthcare, or medicare4all, which is the worst nightmare of the wealthiest 1% & the real reason for all the shenanigans. The insurance industry pays & we lose once again.
The bailouts of ‘too big to fail’ was planned & signed by Bush, but they split it into 2, so Obama could share in the burden, & now the red team blames him for the debt & debacle, when it was all theirs.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller oh no! it had authoritarian features before they started “Gleichschaltung” in the media, but after they dissolved Memorial – it is clearly ideological rectification and only those rainfalls of money (and surely vast territory with relatively small population) preserve putinocracy of becoming pure totalitarianism of our time (look they have even Jews – now called Ukrainians)
the only prices of commodities halt them on the level where they can engage only with themselves. but that will last not for long
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller Dynasty is dynasty, russians even claims that their dynasty is paleogius (from Byzantium) not rurikovich. But whatever. People in Muscovy is finno-ugric, Germans ruled over russian empire, french over jerusalem, and so on, this means what? Russia is Germany? Habsburg Dynasty ruled in Spain, so Spain is austria? You are sooo delusional, you do not know even basics of history. How to talk with you when you do not know the basics?
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman half Ukrainian with ukraine surname, no one, i repeat no one dares to even bring this up when iam visiting Russia. You clearly don’t understand what is going on in Russia, and what is the nature of this Ukraine – Russian conflict. Ukrainians in Russia are not treated poorly based on their race. Unlike jews in Third Reich.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller Well Yanukovitch with Berkut shoot at peaceful people to provoke them, and so on. Every protests is such, what does it change? This just does not make any sense! Yanukovitch is a dictator who flee in russia, if he do not shoot people and was not corrupted, he could participate in elections thats exactly. And the revolution was very successful, most of Ukrainians changes their minds, it is called “The revolution of dignity”)
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller as long as they do not claim national rights. there are no national rights for all, not only for Ukrainians, that is right ß remember Albert Rasin. but i must admit never was there and my perception is formed of what i hear in the media. i have close relatives there – but on the other side (in Chabarovsk) and they are true wata(((
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito lmao, and you speak to me about being delusional. Most of the russians are slavic, Muscovy could not be finno-ugric considering slavs being major population of Rus and that this population had been moving around. Even if you read fookin wiki, you won’t see a support for your idiocity. I have no doubts, that some of the finno-ugric genetics are present in russian ethnic pool, but majority of it are slavic.
You know what is the most funny thing, i’ve expected you saying that russians are not slavic. Damn, it is like speaking to some bot. Predictable…
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
​ @Troller where all of those finno-ugric tribes disapeared?

Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito revolution is more than just changing minds, it is about changing whole system. Compare your revolution with October one. Compare french Revolution with yours. In the essence, the only thing that changed is your opinion of russians and war. Remove that, what will remain?
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman means you know jack shit and let others to form your opinion for you. You are basically “wata”(and i l know the meaning), just with mirror.

Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito and where all slav tribes disappeared then, considering that somehow Muscovy is finno-ugric? There is no scientific consensus on your point, that alone is a fact, and majority russian being slav – is a common line of thought. Argument on that further is a waste of time.
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito even if we go by your logic, hoe can Muscovy remain pure finno-ugric, and made others who claim being russian today being mostly finno-ugric? This theory is a defiance of how every nation had been formed.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller one mustn´t eat shit to know the taste. the smell is more than enough))), but you may have another opinion, that for sure not prohibited
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman considering you said yourself that your opinion formed by media – and media nowadays overall is shit, well i guess you can see where it goes. And truthfully, considering the state of Russian and Ukrainian media, both are shite.

GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
​ @Troller so where all the tribes disappeared?) I will tell you – they still present here. North and south of russia is two different worlds, because south of russia was mostly populated by ukrainians/belarusians, so they are closer to slavs, but the core – moscow and stuff is clearly finno-ugric, even river names and other things is in finno-ugric language. There is scientifical consensus about that, so big quantity of studies, just type and read.
Cuban, Slobozanshchina, Habarovsk and other – was populated by ukrainians, thats why south of russia is closer to slavs, but north is closer to finns. Two different worlds.
What to talk with you if you do not understand even the basics. Finno-ugric people was assimilated, but mainly their culture still present in culture of russia today, they are not slavs.
When i say “russian” i mean russian, muscovite. I do not call chechen as russian for obvious reasons.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller oh no。friends, media, relatives, neighbors, literature, legislation (some time ago I watched their legislative developments, but stopped after war, just sporadic inside) social media… It cannot substitute direct impressions but now it has no sense at all)
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito you also forgot Tatars
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito sorry, but archaeology and genetics disagree with you. You are correct about finno-ugric being there and playing some role. But you are wrong in their role. Even central and northern Russia majority are slavs. Which debunk your ideas. Also, i saw this “works”. “Surprisingly” most of them are ukranian in origin.
Assimilation would ment mixing existing finno-ugric traditions with slavic ones,same with race. And that would mean that Muscovy won’t be finno-ugric, it would be mix of both, which would contradict your point. And considering it have been slavs, who were in charge, and considering that Muscovy haven’t been around from the start, i would presume that majority of Moscow population were slavs. Plus mongol invasion that would literally destroy majority of local culture and craft. See? Even if we start from your theory, there too many obstacles.
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito also, i never ment chechen or bashkir or whatever it is that lives within Russian Federation.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller you both somehow forgot Tatar and all the turk people around starting with Uighurs in the southeast and down to the Crimea tatars))

Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman our discussion concerns russian ethnogenesis, and tatars and Uighurs have never been biggest contribute in that.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller IMHO it’s wrong. Look every sharapov))), dzhaparov, abiyev, ageyev, I think every 3rd name in russia is of that descent)

Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman very funny. as far as i know, it is not the case. Plus, you do remember that 20% of Russian Federation population are national minorities.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller no fun. Pure facts. One just has to ask the namings of villages (smaller – better), but there are also larger examples :like krym and kreml and kyrymly…

Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller russians say of themselves :”potri russkogo – poluchish tatarina”

taylorjmark
1 month ago
@Troller When I taught in the University in Kyiv, I felt that my students would be the future of the country and it was only them who would drive corruption from Ukraine.

taylorjmark
1 month ago
@Roman Roman This guy misses the point of NATO. The Baltics joined NATO because they don;t trust Russia, Poland and the other countries are the same. Nobody trusts Putin and so they want protection from his aggression. That’s why NATO spread East.
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@taylorjmark jawohl! 👍 As simple as that))

Troller
1 month ago
@taylorjmark mby, but current events may hurt that. Regardless, i hope that you are correct. Happy new year!
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman this is wrong, simple as that and i am not elaborating.

Troller
1 month ago
@taylorjmark iam not missing the point, you are. NATO was created against USSR. When USSR dissolved, NATO purpose became obsolete. And by the simple fact, that they not only NATO continue to exist and even expanded towards now even more weaker Russia, well some might see that as provocation. And they saw it for what it was. Bottom line – world changed since cold war, but for some people out in the west it didn’t. And from Russia that had been opened to the west, we now received “revanchist” country.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings are you out of your mind? Territory, that was given to Ukrainian Soviet Republic, had been received from Russian Federal Soviet Republic, that no longer followed by the laws of the old empire. So your example sucks, because ignores logic and the fact that Krushev didn’t followed the laws of the Union.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings also Ukrainians did same with their own country, considering how many have been lost since dissolution of the Union. Also, you are wrong about economic part.

Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller it is your good choice

Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller NATO is a security alliance. There were times that future of this alliance seemed purposeless. But only for a few years with low energy prices. As soon as russia swollen with money it started to dictate around. Until now, but it broke some theeth on Ukraine 🇺🇦)))
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman Naive, considering NATO is an extension of US military complex in Europe. And unlike NATO, US military budget and their aggressive foreign policy only kept growing. NATO is just a relic of a Cold War, that holds us back from peace in Europe.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman sorry, but responding about that theme to somebody, whose opinion had been formed by media – is a waste of time.

Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller after “US … aggressive foreign policy” i think i will stop reading you. have a nice day

Troller
1 month ago
@Roman Roman aggressive does not mean good or bad, it means that USA military had been busy. Yugoslavia, Middle East, North Africa, Afghanistan. And this if you only count what happened after USSR dissolution. Also biggest military spending in a world and biggest military complex in a world with biggest military infrastructure in a world. Or what, all that is Kremlin propaganda?
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Roman Roman
1 month ago
@Troller and the highest prosperity, the spread of trade, unprecedented achievements in literally every aspect of life. And russia which you try to pretend to not protecting and justify… If not transnistria then Abchasia or even homs or deir-az-zor)))
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Troller
1 month ago (edited)
@Roman Roman are you blind? Or have a short memory? I only debated russian motives being different from the Third Reich (and Russia not being Third Reich essentially), not the subject of russian aggression. Seriously, have you paid any attention to what i wrote?
About USA, so you would be ok with aggressive policy if it would benefit your country economically, even though some others would not be as beneficial as you?
Also, economic success does not affect my point in any way. Both come hand to hand.
From my point, both Russia and USA is the same with one main difference – USA way more powerful, in both military and economic part.
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de caesaris
1 month ago
@Sergei Saltan
Yep bro, this “professor” is a new karl marx, supporting the xi and putin;s position. According to his name, we can see his roots, the same ones wich brought the comunism in Europe enslaving us the eastern europeans. (I’m romanian) Theese “comunist professors” wouldn’t survive a month under the regime they promote, they only talk from outside getting payed a lot by putin and xi. First of all, this neocomunist should came in earlier ’89 socialist Romania to feel the taste of what he sustains, in the “enlighted” era with electricity 5 hours /day, no food in markets, no warmth in the radiators, only 2 hours of tv/day etc. Funny thing that theese guys praising the socialism flew to Israel out of socialist gubernia Romania after they brought in the soviet russian comunism and destroyed the country. This guy is a kgb man. I’m gonna vomit after listening his well build aberations
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
​ @Troller todays russia is different because of internal migrations, but even today north is mostly finno-ugric, south is mostly slavic(ukrainian/belarussian). Core of russia is finno-ugric, culturally slavs and russians is very different. Yes, archeology and genetics agree with me)
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito this is absurd, and so far you got only your own words with no major international scientific to back you up. The same pattern of thoughts and logic like those russians who believe that Ukrainians are non-existent nation. You two are worthy of each other lmao.
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Victor Zed Wings
1 month ago
@Troller you seem to be not reading well at all what I told here.
I’m talking about actual law. Soviet Union law, and today’s Russia’s law tell you the same thing. Just open it and read it. For God sake! And stop talking nonsence!

Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings there no mentioning of “Gosudar” in either of USSR constitution and Russian federation one, Crimea example is a poor one of you want to prove your strange point. Simple as that.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings basically, you are not talking about laws here, just strange logic with very confusing examples that have nothing to do with real situation.

Victor Zed Wings
1 month ago
@Troller I’m not going to enter economic discussion here, because I’m absolutely sure you are no match to me.
You are saying nonsense, which is not even supported by meaningful argumentation.
What Ukrainians did to their land, setting it for a rent, same thing Russia did to Russian land. Exhausting resources, sending all for USD, since internal economy is undeveloped and dependent from outer world productions. Because of the reasons I mention above. In case of Ukraine it is happened because of the same mental setting they got from Russia. People have been robbed of their land, and lost practical knowledge how to use it. Recovery from such mental loss will take very long time.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller youtube blocks any external links, otherwise there would be about ten which proves my opinion.
Actually you have not proven anything you say neither, but at least everything i say is easy to check just by googling it.
I want to know my history, but russians want to believe in nonsense about their. Like moscow is third rome, romanov dynasty(hohenzolern) is actually paleogius relatives, about monomah hat, csar(cesar), they actually believe that groznyi never killed anyone and he is a good guy who beaten tatars ahaha, standing at river ugri, almost everything has fakes… if you were in 1900s russia and say like “Romanov is not roman dynasty” you would be imprisoned and beaten…
What to talk with you if you do not understand even basics of eastern europe history?)
Tell me like Kyiv was founded by vikings) it is so funny
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Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings might be so, might not. But let me counter you first on simple basis of understanding how things were during Gosudar. Imperial economy was certainly less advanced, but by saying that people there didn’t knew how to handle land is mistake at best. This aspect was rapidly developing and if not for the WW1 and subsequent revolution with civil war, people would have had a rapidly developing sector of private economy.
After that, we cone to Krushev, who have gave Crimea not operating on any of existing laws, and your reasoning with that is makab. It was a political move first.
You may argue about modern Russia and Ukraine having the same issue with handling land and market economy, and yeah, this is true. But the issue here goes way deeper, at least for Russia. And your populist approach “when in doubt blame russians” at very least only partially correct.
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito poor excuse, you can simply give me names, or better yet names of the studies. I can Google them myself. Though i suspect your source is mainly Ukrainian.

Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito Karamzin, Grushevsky etc, and this is me not bothering.

Victor Zed Wings
1 month ago
@Troller Stop showing ignorance publicly!
If there is no “Gosudar”, then there can’t by “Gosudar-stvo” too. But EVERYONE KNOWS that in Russian law you see EVERYWHERE word “Gosudar-stvo”.

Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito Moscow being Third Rome was an idea after the fall of Constantinople, to which some religious folk with political support came up because Russian Tsardom and Byzantine both had same religion, Rurikovich were intermarried with Byzantium dynasty. Also Romanovs originally are russian boyars that were tied with Rurikovich, which is why they later were able to laid claim to the throne. And even if we come to Hohenzollern part, Romanov blood os still there at least officially. And sorry but when you say that entire russian history is fake, you sound like Alex Jones. Your history and russian are tied to each other no matter how hard you try to fight or deny it. Both starts from one source and intertwined through generations. And at this point, what you trying to pull off is nothing more but a political move in order to set you apart from Russia and made them in your history books only one thing – an enemy.
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito nope, Kiev existed before Rurikovich dynasty, but neither it was a first capital. Everything started from Novgorod, then Kiev became a political center (though mainly symbolic, considering early feudalism), which ended after Mongol arrival.
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Victor Zed Wings
1 month ago
@Troller the real situation is that I see daily, talking to principals and their affiliates.
Government trashes resources, they can’t even sell them anymore. Wood if rotting right on the place where it has been sawed off, because nobody has money to buy it. And people can’t build their houses from this wood, because it officially do not belong to them. No resources, no land. And people for to bank agreeing to become debt slaves. This is ENSLAVERY by “Gosudarstvo”.
And this is very real. Seen daily. And endless other things that happen according to Russian law.
Russian people work hard, same hard as people in other countries. But this is not going to take em anyway far.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings meh, try harder mister CAPS LOCK. Won’t make your point stronger but pick your own poison lol.

Victor Zed Wings
1 month ago
@Troller Land is the property of the public – the public property. Every one has rights to one’s part. Don’t you agree?
This is how it done around the world except for dictatorships.
Russia is very cold country.
But the more literally severe environment, the more equality and even distribution of land and resources needed.
The more intelligent handling of it all by every single person is required. Just for bare survival.
Look from satellite on the Russian North.
You’ll have no more questions.
Regarding political decision – dictatorships don’t need law to make their decisions.
Their decisions is the law for their people.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings while i might agree about modern situation, i’ve already stated why i disagree on historical examples and your interpretation of them. You ignored development of private economy in Empire, which happend regardless of your view, Krushev giving Crimea had nothing to do with your point either. You would have been correct if you said that because of the Soviet planned economy we are unequipped with dealing with market laws, but you chose to use populist rhetorics in your comment which i originally addressed.
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Victor Zed Wings
1 month ago (edited)
@Troller caps lock is the last hope. I don’t have 3 years or so, to educate every one. Hope it helps.

Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings except you need to be more coherent with the point you want to make. You could be the smartest cookie on a planet with vastest pool of knowledge, and yet no one will understand you because of how you present your point. And sorry, but you trying to operate within one comment laws of imperial era, soviets and modern ones, tying it to Krushev and mistakenly using imperial age overall, well not the best example IMHO.
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Victor Zed Wings
1 month ago
@Troller But what Krushev said actually is true. On the south there are southern people demanded. On the north – northern people.
First of all decode word Empire.
What is Em-Pire? Em-Pirator? The Pirator? Pirat? This sounds funny.
Economy of Empire was sucking socks!
Because it has no vision of development.
At least I never saw any documents that tell me otherwise.
There was no equal payment – the parity among employer and employee.
In every democratic country government understood long ago and well enough that there must by parity for country to function. Min allowed salary per hour, retribution of resources, concurrency, insurances…
Dictatorships don’t have it. They do manual control. And if it can work in countries with rich soil and warm clime, – it will definitely catastrophe impact into a debris in northern countries. That might be the reason why true democracy took place in Norway long ago, before the others.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings for as long as person are able to pay his taxes, yeah. Land must be his. But with post-soviet there is an obvious issue for us all, and it has nothing to do with sole russian existence being not able to rule the land. Kulaks are perfect example that at very least it was on a right way. Our modern issue comes from corruption of the goverments, people living in an era where everything is tied to authrorian/oligarchy rule with laws being optional at best. But with certain development of social institutions, that predicament can be dealt with at very least partially, with possibility to move on to a better model.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
​ @Troller i do not want to continue arguing with people who never read a book about eastern europe history… moscow literally claimed they are roman empire(csar – cesar)
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito basically meaning you have no proof. Because i litteraly repeated history school books and you know it.
Also they never claimed being litteraly Romans. Whole thing were addressed on such way because religiously Moscow was the biggest spiritual place for Orthodoxy. Also, if anything many rulers back then claimed themselves being a successor to the Roman Empire. Holy Roman Empire was especially striking example, despite them not being even in Italy.
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Troller
1 month ago
@Victor Zed Wings they had visions and programs. Vitte, Stolipyn etc. Economy was rapid developing in Europe with war ruining it all. And Krushev said many things and did many things. Many among them were wrong.
Even in dictatorship total control is almost impossible, especially with large countries. Only red khmer movement were able to have total control and only for a brief time. Also sorry to break it for ya, but democracies became more worker oriented only after they got shit scared of revolution in Russia. Before that workers rights sucked, big time, as well as minimum wage. It took a bloody revolution for them to figure everything out, so don’t give too much of a credit on that.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Troller also about “just want to see them as enemies”
OF COURSE this is totally ukrainian fault for betrayals and massacres from russians, of course we did it to ourselves didn’t we? Also we asimilated ourselves not because our language and other stuff was forbidden and ukrainians were forced to call themselves as “russians” in fear of repressions nono. Totally innocent russia invaded Ukraine….
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Troller
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito and here we go with crying. Yawn, boring.
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Victor Zed Wings
1 month ago
@Troller yeah, that is exactly the problem.
People break simple rules of the Universe, begin to invent schemes actively, relying on their intellect. This is how any kind of monstrosity gets born.
And in the end everyone realizes – just distribute natural resources equally and pay according to the hardness of the work. And you’ll be fine.
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random dude
1 month ago
@jim carrington “Those protesting Ukrainians were drawing inspiration from occupy protesters in America, not gov. employees.”
not really, there was victoria nuland giving cookies at the protests, there’s also an audio of her deciding the new government after the coup.
“Putin’s pee tapes on cheato are likely real.

that’s proven a false narrative started by the clinton campaign.
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jim carrington
1 month ago
@random dude just a false narrative, but i have nothing to prove
when it came to deciding the new government, you nor I were there, so no wonder its back to corruption

random dude
1 month ago
@jim carrington “when it came to deciding the new government, you nor I were there”
true, but there are pictures and audio of victoria nuland interfering.
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jim carrington
1 month ago
@random dude lol thats pretty flimsy to try & say the west is at fault
i wasn’t there, i am in the west
the professor may speak to or for the 1%, but he sure isn’t speaking for me

random dude
1 month ago
@jim carrington “the professor may speak to or for the 1%, but he sure isn’t speaking for me”
true, but the 1% do speak for you, or at least their actions will affect you the same.
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jim carrington
1 month ago
@random dude america needs to provide housing & healthcare for all our citizens FIRST
then treat snowden & assange better before dictating a message from the 1%

random dude
1 month ago
@jim carrington “america needs to provide housing & healthcare for all our citizens FIRST
then treat snowden & assange better before dictating a message from the 1%”
I agree, but I doubt it’ll happen, so I guess the 1% will be dictating conditions, and sadly that extends to a big part of the world, including ukraine.
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Liam Oconlocha
1 month ago
@jim carrington totally agree Jim you hit the nail exactly where it needs hitting, people are constantly being stolen by big business, and these idiots keep fooling everyone by saying nonsense stuff like unAmerican or ‘the American People’. It has become totalitarian and big business has way too.much power
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Vancouver BC
1 month ago
@GuyduIncognito 99.9% they agree with me. Romanians give and finance the small Ukrainian community. Ukrainians are represented in Romanian Parliament. You do not do enough for Romanians from BUCOVINA. It is a fact.

Roman Dawydiak
1 month ago
@Sergei Saltan Interestingly enough, Vladimir Lenin as the founder of the Russian Soviet State had a perfect 2 word description of individuals such as John Mearsheimer: USEFUL IDIOT!!
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Roman Dawydiak
1 month ago
@jim carrington The late former “Soviet” Ukrainian dissident Valentyn Moroz had a very short but perfect description of Russo-Ukrainian relations: “There is no love lost between a fox and a hound”.
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GuyduIncognito
1 month ago
@Vancouver BC with hungarians didnt go well so now ukrainians is oppressing romanians… There are 89 romanian schools but only one in Romania, but even then there are few people learning in that school because government of Romania is telling people not to learn ukrainian. Also idk what you mean do for romanians, we have not as much money and are at war with russia what do you expect us to do? They have freedom of expression and are free to do what they want, just like everyone in Ukraine. They can start protesting if something is wrong(like everyone do), if you mean just give them money we dont have money, but they can ask for it maybe something will be funded
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jim carrington
1 month ago
@Roman Dawydiak I like that quote, & it sure applies here.

jim carrington
1 month ago
@Yaroslav Verbitski agreed, thanks! i love your professor dipshit LOL

Troller
1 month ago
@Yaroslav Verbitski letting you keep nuclear weapons would be gravest mistake in a history of world, considering how unstable and unpredictable your country.

Ольга Бендзар
1 month ago
you know nothing about the history…because the history of your country presented by Russian government – is fake ….so do not try to look smart
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Troller
1 month ago
@Ольга Бендзар because it is russian, all of it is a fake. Nice logic darlin, nice logic.

Ольга Бендзар
1 month ago
@Troller I am not your darling babe

Troller
1 month ago
@Ольга Бендзар untill you understand, that you just can’t fake entire history darlin, i’ll stick to my guns. You can argue opponent version of history in certain aspects, but not the whole thing. Plus, what made you think, that you have the right version of history? Moral high ground? Or you got time travel machine and have all the proof?
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Ольга Бендзар
1 month ago
@Troller all the reasons you’ve mentioned suit us

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Pete F.
3 weeks ago
I would never have watched this video when it first came out, but now that events are getting serious, I am so thankful I found this because now it makes sense why things are happening the way they are, and where we are headed, and it scares me because I feel there’s nothing I personally can do about it.
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Crazy Guy
Crazy Guy
4 weeks ago
I am Ukrainian myself and it is truly sad of how my country struggles to clean itself up. Just leave it alone. we need time to build up.
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Elle Ren
Elle Ren
2 weeks ago
Thank you, excellent presentation! I am watching this video on February 5, 2022, 8 years after the fact.
The history and present conditions, all make sense of what is happening in Ukraine, Russia, Europe and the United States. In addition, John made a statement that he gave China 10 to 15 years before we would say problems he’s right on target
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the deeliciousplum
the deeliciousplum
2 weeks ago
Recently stumbled upon this talk. Prof John J. Mearsheimer’s thoughts on Ukraine, on the West, and on the East are as relevant now as they were when this talk was given. A valuable and enlightening talk. Thank you for sharing this.
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Stephen Carroll
2 weeks ago
Excellent lecture. The world never needs war, let alone another one.
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A. Michael Uhlmann
A. Michael Uhlmann
3 weeks ago
Not only where his predictions about Ukraine right on the spot (six years ago), but in some extra remarks, he mentioned that it would be really bad if Russia and China would cooperate again – and yes these two nations found each other again, Russia helping China advancing it’s Belt & Road policy.
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Алексей Косарчук
Алексей Косарчук
1 month ago
It is very interesting to watch in 2022, knowing how events played out.
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Eamon Brennan
Eamon Brennan
4 weeks ago
It’s extraordinary how (at the time of the gulf war) it was repeatedly stated that this conflict was NOT ABOUT OIL. But 20 years later an academic can casually drop the fact that it was all about oil into a lecture.
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William Nhamo
William Nhamo
3 weeks ago
‘Conventional wisdom’ is the easiest way to obtain information and it surely misleads. One really needs to understand issues on a fundamental level before simply believing ‘conventional wisdom’ Great lecture Prof John J. Mearsheimer!
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Robert Finn
Robert Finn
2 weeks ago
Prophetic! Thank you so much for such a clear, informative and insightful talk. I learnt a lot from it.
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razzjaxx
3 weeks ago
What a wonderful lecture! It is a shame that mainstream media does not give more publicity to such intelligent, rational perspectives instead of emphasizing what Prof. Mearsheimer calls the ‘conventional wisdom’ and its shallow sensationalism (and that statement fully applies to my country – France – as well).
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exploiteddna
exploiteddna
3 weeks ago
good lecture with some good points, and certainly provides context for current events. At the same time, it would be interesting to hear a similar lecture from the majority of academics who dont agree with this guy (as he noted in the first half of the talk, he is in the minority with his opinions here)
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Chris Redding
Chris Redding
4 weeks ago (edited)
As many below have said: You have to keep reminding yourself that this lecture happened over six years ago.
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Pravda
Pravda
2 weeks ago (edited)
12:48 Tremendous lecture, and particularly relevant given recent events, but it really has to be said whenever this conversation is being had- if for no other reason than in the interest of pursuing the truth of the matter- that America’s geo-political strategies and rationale have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the proliferation of democracy. If they can manage to cobble together an election with their boys in one corner and controlled opposition of some sort in the other, fine- it’s good press after all and can serve as further justification for expansion down the road- but that isn’t the principal motive. What they are installing are not democracies, but allies. Whether those allies take the form of liberal democrats or an outright, unapologetic military dictatorship is immaterial. Furthermore wether or not the people being overthrown arrived at their position democratically is of equal unimportance.They want places to extract vast quantities of wealth, strictly on their terms, with no fight back of any kind. It’s truly that simple. Any attempt to obfuscate that basic truth only serves to muddy the water and allows for broad support of a fundamentally imperialistic foreign policy under the mistaken impression that they are acting in service of the liberation of mankind from the thralls of despotism.
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oceanbnd
oceanbnd
3 weeks ago
Very interesting lecture. I’ve never heard of John Mearsheimer before this. Sounds like a wise man here. I wonder if he’d still be saying these same things now? I’d like to hear him now. He’s only 74 and I’m sure still with it enough for at least a discussion. Love to hear from him now.
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Lee Lee
Lee Lee
4 weeks ago
What an absolutely insightful and fascinating video. Very relevant to the current crisis in Ukraine
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CainIwakura Ch. カイン岩倉
3 weeks ago
Crazy to think this lecture was 6 year ago and it’s accurate.
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Shoumojit Banerjee
Shoumojit Banerjee
3 weeks ago
An effortlessly brilliant exposition by the Dean of International Relations! Mr. Mearsheimer, whose ‘Tragedy of Great Power Politics’ and the ‘Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy’ are masterworks (and must-reads), is one of the splendidly provocative IR theorists at work, whose books force you to think hard.
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Christopher Kuffel
Christopher Kuffel
4 weeks ago
As an American living in Asia for the majority of my life, I often hear US congressmen speak on Asia. I cannot express my compete sense of bewilderment and horror when one of them gets on a soapbox and demonstrates profound ignorance of even the basics. I often puzzle whether it is true deep ignorance or they are speaking to a domestic audience so they need to appear ignorant. Perhaps they are playing game I do not understand, but starting from statements that are easily challenged creates another set of questions. The lack of any real understanding is often so remarkable that it perfectly aims them at some sort of geopolitical car crash without offering a map to a perceivable goal.
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toshkris
toshkris
1 month ago
If you review lectures by other eminents, one frequently encounters contradictions after a period of say 5 years. But this Professor is consistent in his remarks with regards to events unfolding. I find him to be relatively intellectually honest as well, a rare trait in these times.
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Maggie Kri
Maggie Kri
4 weeks ago
Thanks for laying it out so clearly – more people need to see this.
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FalconXE302
FalconXE302
3 weeks ago
Even after only 3 minutes of Mr Mearsheimer’s intro… he has hit the nail on the head and shows juts how easy it is to tell us all what is going on.
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Cook! with Cel
2 weeks ago
wish i knew about this at that time period but its never to late to learn . Now i have a better understanding about that situation. I enjoyed this presentation
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Cryptic
2 weeks ago
37:58 What should be done
39:50 Consequences
44:02 Ukraine
1:07:20 Germany
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Graeme Glen
2 weeks ago
Wow !! I was watching this without checking the date (6 years ago) and thought he was talking about current events. Things that pertain to this week. Which essentially he is. It’s a shame Governments are controlled by politicians and not clear thinking smart people like John here.
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Lemon Party
1 month ago (edited)
Six years later and what this man has been saying has come to pass, such as the US/Nato influence in Ukraine and the China threat. The truth of what he says is obvious even to a layman like myself.
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busyrand
2 weeks ago
This was a joy to watch. This professor is a great presenter.
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D S
3 weeks ago
My take away from this (about 40 minutes in while writing this) is that this was always going to happen, and was a matter of “when”, not “if”. Dire times ahead for this region.
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KoSh Films
3 weeks ago
i hope Ukraine lives in peace and prosperity and does not have a conflict….Russia and the west should have a diplomatic solution..attacking Ukraine is not a solution. it will bring misery to so many innocent people
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Tim Dickinson
2 weeks ago (edited)
This lecture is particularly interesting given recent events along the Russian –Ukrainian border. Events in that area seem always to occur in the month of February. I wonder why. Therefore, I would strongly advise Ukrainian leaders to watch this lecture ASAP, wake up, and get off the primrose path that the “benign hegemon” in the West is leading them up.
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George P
George P
2 weeks ago
I wasn’t watching but listened with my headphones while working around the house. When I saw it was the article was published in 2015 I couldn’t believe it. I had the feeling it was posted if not yesterday, then not more a month ago. This man is a genius! Period.
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Mr Pangy
Mr Pangy
1 month ago
Very interesting that this is coming up again after many years. One of the most interesting points is that Mearsheimer brings in an ethical point that leads into “strategic interest,” when the point of leaving unchecked behavior is more the point that I would like to hear more about.
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Jill Featherman
Jill Featherman
4 weeks ago
I see that I’m not the only one here refreshing their history. It’s amazing how well he predicted the current situation.
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Jerry Cutler
2 weeks ago
As always, Dr. Mearsheimer, thank you so much for your wisdom.👏
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Asylum
2 weeks ago
“Driving Russians into Chinese arms” – this happened today. This was the final push towards complete Russia-China alliance.
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Stuart Platt
Stuart Platt
3 weeks ago
Love this speech and thank god he has the freedom to speak openly and sometimes even negatively about his own country. He definitely changed my mind about this conflict.
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Chris Fox
Chris Fox
3 weeks ago
One of the most interesting videos I have watched … ever. What a superbly informed man.
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Garrus Vakarian
4 weeks ago
I do love his explanation of core strategic interests versus economic interests, and of the balance of resolve. As this guy says “we don’t actually care that much about Ukraine, but the Russians really care”.
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MrFischvogel
MrFischvogel
4 weeks ago
Thank you very much, Sir, for this clear and very convincing argument against the majority opinion ! =)
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Tim Mulrenan
1 month ago
Well thought out discussion of the Ukraine situation, 8 years before our current predicament. He saw it coming. Certainly a different perspective from what we’re being fed today, but it is very credible.
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Amit Kant
Amit Kant
3 weeks ago
Even in 2022, Professor Mearsheimer’s thoughts hold as much value as they did in 2015. Americans must abandon their Cold War obsession with Russia because if they do not then they shall not be able to check the rise of China- a country which seriously has the economic scale, potential scientific capability and ambition to replace the U.S. as the pre-dominant economic and military power of the world. Russia lacks the economic scale to challenge the U.S.
I don’t know… but if Almighty has already willed China’s rise then perhaps this is how He intends to do it i.e. by making American politicians and policymakers obsess over unimportant matters and lose focus on China.
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Joanna K
Joanna K
4 weeks ago
Well thank you so much! This was amazing, something has not sat right with me when it came to the issue of Ukraine and I’m so glad I came across this video has really helped me to understand and confirm in my heart what I’ve been sensing and feeling this whole time.
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Kerry Summers
Kerry Summers
3 weeks ago
I really enjoyed watching this. Logic and history come to a clear understanding of what is going on.
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Simon Oxley
Simon Oxley
2 weeks ago (edited)
What a super presentation and how utterly depressing that most of Professor Mearsheimer’s predictions have come true.
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Alex G
3 weeks ago (edited)
Excellent comprehensive analysis and Q&A session. The only parameter missing is the dollar hegemony vs. the search for an alternative currency supported by China, Russia and other states, who are fed up with the dollar endless printing detached from economic fundamentals, precious metals bashing, and US unilateral economy sanctions. Currencies wars is a big part of the geo-strategic rivalry today.
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OZ GBA
OZ GBA
1 month ago (edited)
It is refreshing to know we still have a few political science scholars, who are able to look deep into US-Russia relations and are willing to say things so different from what we keep hearing from the talking heads on our major networks TV and our politicians, void of intelligent foresight.
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therealrockguy
therealrockguy
3 weeks ago
Thank you for sharing. You made your points very clear and easy to understand.
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ayhan colak
2 weeks ago
watching on February 9, 2022. All points are much clearer.
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dj darksideJungle
3 weeks ago
John Mearsheimer is spot on as usual and lot of people would say oh hes another conspiracy guy if you played him people and said listen to what John Mearsheimer got to say and its anything but a conspiracy i would say leaning more towards counter intelligence then a conspiracy but a lot of people would associate what hes saying with that but hes spot on and to the point
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Aviation and Evades
Aviation and Evades
3 weeks ago
Amazing! America still has smart people like him!
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Samuel Culper
3 weeks ago
Love his analysis, some of which is quite contrary to my conventional understanding. Also loved the QandA on China. Already we have seen lively tension between China and India.
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Alenas Kvasninas
Alenas Kvasninas
1 month ago
Very interesting. When he said the US is pro regime change to promote democracy he is somewhat off the mark. The US only does that with countries that are opposed to the US, the US is happy to support the Saudi regime and other brutal authoritarian governments, if they are useful
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Kathi Alfsen
Kathi Alfsen
3 weeks ago
I just came across this prescient video from 6 and 1/2 years ago. It is amazing that we’re still having the same conversation and still making the same mistakes. Thank you Professor Mearsheimer. United States is a wonderful country, but we surely suck at trying to export liberal democracy and capitalism.
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Stephen williams
Stephen williams
2 weeks ago
Is this guy still lecturing or has he been cancelled because he drew his responses from all sources instead of the approved list. I found his depth and insightful conclusions amazingly accurate considering they were almost 7 years ago
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Paris in ‘68 was probably the best it ever got..
2 weeks ago
Everything Dr. Mearsheimer says makes sense to me.
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naeem shaukat
4 weeks ago
This guy’s analysis is very accurate about Americans strategy of toppling all those governments which are no pro democracy. Looks like it’s a payback time for the USA and it’s allies. It is level playing field after a long time as so far Americans were just messing up with weaker nations.
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James Parker
James Parker
2 weeks ago
This guy nailed it. History proved him to be correct, over 6 years later. The “Washington Gang” should have listened.
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tom paj
1 month ago
smart guy, first time hearing him however I am very impressed with his level of understanding of that particular situation and connotations with WWII
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Magnus Adolfsson
Magnus Adolfsson
3 weeks ago
Great lecture. There is somehow a super-power perspective, should we look the other way for nations to decide their own alliance?
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Styx
Styx
1 month ago
I always say to people who don’t understand why Russia is, or would be against the expansion of NATO to it’s borders to ask themselves how they would’ve felt if Canada joined the Warsaw Pact during the Cold War.
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Peter Hopp
Peter Hopp
2 weeks ago
Maybe we should start listening to this guy now since he got it all right 6 years ago
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Denis Polyakov
4 weeks ago
This was amazing. I would love to just be able to sit in and listen at one of the lectures.
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