Mark Collett – Patriotic Alternative Autumn Update with Laura – Oct 2, 2020 — Transcript

[Mark Collett, Leader of Patriotic Alternative, and Laura Towler, Deputy Leader, gives us an Autumn update. Laura and Mark start with a brief chat about the tragic-comedy debate that Mark had the previous night with a rambling, can’t sit still, juggling, African-American guy in Florida.

Laura then describes in detail the harassment from the “State” through its proxies, for her pro-White, pro-British nationalism. About a month ago, without warning, her bank card stopped functioning and her bank, Santander, eventually informed her that her account had been terminated. Mark also had his bank account made inactive.

He then describes how the Electoral Commission has been dragging the chain, using one excuse after the other, in permitting PA from being registered as a political party.

(To be continued)






Mark Collett

Patriotic Alternative Autumn Update

with Laura


Oct 2, 2020





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Published on Oct 2, 2020

Patriotic Alternative Autumn Update
•Streamed live 2 hours ago

Mark Collett
97.4K subscribers
We give an update on Patriotic Alternative’s progress and new developments that cover both the organisation’s growing resources, home schooling project and much more.

You can now donate to me via Bitcoin:



Laura Towler












Mark: Hello everybody! And welcome to tonight’s stream. We are live on both YouTube and Dlive as well. That is something new. We haven’t been live on YouTube for quite some time. And for anyone that had the thought that I might have disappeared or thrown in the towel, or haven’t been around for a while, it’s because PWR [Patriotic Weekly Review], our regular show on Wednesday has moved to Dlive.


Now tonight, as I said, we are live on both Dlive and on YouTube. So you can catch us at either of those locations. And again anyone that erroneously thought that I wasn’t streaming anymore or wasn’t around, or wasn’t producing content, I am! And if you want to catch my regular weekly video which also aren’t non YouTube anymore they are all on BitChute.


So just to reiterate the regular weekly show Patriotic Weekly Review, that is now on Dlive every week on Wednesday at the same time it has always been. And my entire back catalog of weekly videos and all previous episode of PWR, and all of these streams as well, they can all be found on my BitChute account. So if you haven’t been up to date, or you thought I had disappeared that is where I am! We certainly haven’t given up, we just found a different home for most of my live streams. Tonight we are indeed back on YouTube.

Now, if you would like to contribute to this stream, be that financially or by asking questions, you can use Entropy. Now the Entropy link is on my Twitter, it’s on my Telegram, and it is in both the Dlive chat and the YouTube chat now. Entropy allows you to send superchats, which are paid donations. You can ask questions and make statements or paid statements slash questions that will be read out live, and myself and Laura will be answering them.


And if you want to ask non-paid questions they can also be asked. The best questions are voted up and all good questions, or all good non-paid questions will also be dealt with tonight. This is my way and Laura’s way of reaching out to PA supporters and talking to you guys here live. So this is the chance, or your chance to ask us questions.


Now as I said those links are in the live chat. Those links are also on my Twitter and my Telegram. So if you want to ask questions please use Entropy. Now you can also email me if you have any questions about PA. And the best place to get hold of me is: Mark at the fall of western man dot com. And you can also email Laura. What’s the best place to get hold of you Laura? What’s your email address?


Laura: So you can either use: hello at we were never asked dot co dot uk, or if you just send a message to the contact form on the PA website. I check them once a day as well. So either of those two.


Mark: Wonderful! Now some of you might have seen last night, I had a little debate! It was a little debate because it didn’t last very long! With a guy called “Gazi Kodzo”. Now that debate you can see in it’s, in all it’s glory over on my aforementioned BitChute channel.



The debate was very, very strange. It was very amusing and I think a lot of people found it quite amusing. Obviously as we are on YouTube I’m not going to go into the subject of the debate, or how it went. But please do go and check it out. That was myself debating a guy called Gazi Kodzo. It over on my BitChute. Do you think I won Laura? Is that fair to say?


Laura: It wasn’t even, it would be undermining it I think to say that you won because it wasn’t even a fair playing field. It was like talking to a child. I actually thought Rikki Doolan was bad, but that was just, … I couldn’t believe what I was watching! It was just mental!



Mark: So what do you think the chances are for the ultimate face off? And when I say the ultimate face-off, you know what I mean. I’m talking Doolan vs Kodzo! “Gazi Kodzo vs Rikki Doolan — The Battle of the Micro-Brains“! What do you think? Can we make it happen? Would that be, amongst all this Covid madness would that be a treat for everybody?


Laura: We should do it like, what are those wrestling competitions like the two losers debate each other [laughter] [words unclear]


Mark: What do we have to debate?


Laura: And they should debate each other. But yeah, at least Rikki Doolan could, … I mean his arguments were mental but at least he could string a sentence to get here. And at least he pretended to care for something. The guy you debated yesterday was, … I liked it halfway through he just stopped and started juggling [laughter]! Like what? It was honestly like talking to a child. And he had all these really sort of, these arguments, you know, White people haven’t, you have done nothing! You stole everything from us. It’s like:


“God! Do you people actually believe this?”


Mark: And the answer to that question is “Yes, he does!”


Now there. An important update about last nights debate. Gazi Kodzo and his friend from the Black Hammer organize are starting their own city. It called “Hammer City”. It’s going to be based in Florida. And they are currently fund raising to build “Hammer City”.


Now, I don’t suggest any of us donate to Hammer City, but I do want to see Hammer City be funded just to see chaos and the ensuing laughter when it goes wrong. So I looked up how people could contribute to Hammer City. Now these people are trying to build an entire city in Florida in America. And they are asking for five hundred thousand dollars to do it.



Now I’m not sure in Florida if that buys you a house, let alone a city. This has to be possibly the worst costed project I’ve ever seen! But if by some miracle they do manage to raise half a million, I will eagerly watching and waiting to see what they get up to.


But anyway, enough of that, enough of the fun and games, because we do have serious things to talk about tonight. And I’m not actually going to start the discussion because I’m going to throw it over to Laura because believe it or not, despite our detractors saying:


“That we are going nowhere, we haven’t got a chance! There is no way PA will ever take off. No threat to anyone. We’ve already blown it by being too hardline!”


Both myself and Laura have been under relentless attack by the system, and I’m going to throw it over to Laura because she’s had it worse than me, believe it or not. So over to you Laura. Please explain what has happened.




Laura: Yeah, so for the last month, or so, Mark and I have been dealing with something behind the scenes that we’ve not made public yet. And it’s kind of come to an end now, so we’ve decided to make it public. Anyone who watched the video that I uploaded on my channel last Sunday will know that I mentioned it. And I said once it’s finished I will make it public.


And the reason why we’ve decided to make it public is, because we want to warn other people that this could happen to you as well. And we’ll let, you know how you can be prepared for it if it does happen.


So, I guess I should start at the beginning of the story. About a month ago I went into the shop and I tried to, I was buying some shopping and I tried to pay on my card, and my bank card declined. And I had money in my bank. I’d actually been paid that day. So I said:


“I’m really sorry about that. I’ll go to the cash point outside and I’ll draw some money out and I’ll come back in and pay for my shopping.”


So I went to the cash point outside and it wouldn’t work. It just said:


“Unable to process.”


So I was like:


“Oh for god’s sake!”


So I went to another cash point and that wouldn’t work either. And I tried to open the a on my phone and it just said “error” and closed.


So I went back into the shop and I’m like:


“I’m really sorry about this. There’s something wrong with my bank account.”


Luckily I was in Leeds city center. So I went into the branch, and I queued up for about an hour. And the guy behind the counter was like:


“I’ve never experienced anything like this before. I don’t know what’s going on.”


And so I waited for an hour for them to sort it out. And then the manager of the branch came out and he took me into this little room around the side and he said:


“I’m going to read this statement here. After I’ve read this statement here, I can’t have a discussion with you. And I can’t tell you anything else. And you need to leave.”


So he read this statement out, and it said:


“We have locked your bank account. We do not have to give you a reason why we’ve locked your bank account. We’ll be in touch with you in the future, if we want to be in touch with you in the future. But we don’t know when that will be.”


So I was like:


“Okay. Well I don’t know why you’ve locked my bank account, because I haven’t done anything wrong.”


I have the most uninteresting bank account in the world. I basically get paid once a month, and then my rent, and bills come out, and maybe like I’ll buy a dress on the internet, or something. And that’s it.


So I knew that there was nothing dodgy on this, you know, no dodgy reason for them to do this. So I was trying to get more information out of him. And he just wouldn’t give me any more information at all. But I did get it out of him that it wasn’t fraud. He said:


“It’s not fraud, it’s something else. But I can’t give you any more information.”


So I said:


“Well can I have my money out of my bank account, then?”


Because I didn’t have any cash on me and I was in the city centre which is like, I think it’s about 10 miles from where I live. And he was like:


“No. We’re not giving you any of your money.”


So I had to walk home, because I didn’t have any cash on me. My fiance could have come and picked me up, but he was at work, so he couldn’t.




And basically this went on for three weeks where they wouldn’t give me access to any of my money, and they wouldn’t give me any further information. They basically treated me like a criminal. And every time I phoned up to get further information, they just either cut me off, or they just said I’m not telling you anything. I put in a complaint. They rejected my complaint and basically said:


“We don’t accept it. And we don’t care.”


And then over the course of those three weeks I couldn’t pay my rent, because my account was totally locked! None of my direct debits were going out. Luckily, I live with my fiancee, so he was able to buy food, and stuff like that for us. But if I lived by myself, I wouldn’t have been able to buy food, or travel anywhere, or anything! I was basically un-personed for about three weeks.


[Image] Leeds Santander City Centre branch.


After these three weeks, I went into the branch to talk to them, because they wouldn’t talk to me on the phone. And basically they alerted me that they’re going to close my bank account down. And I’m not allowed a bank account with them. I sat with the lady in the branch for about 30 minutes, and we went through every single transaction on my bank account statement for the last two years. And she said to me:


“There’s absolutely nothing dodgy on this statement at all! And you’re managing your account really well. You’ve never even been in any overdraft, or anything like that. It’s nothing to do with fraud, or anything like that.”


So they basically shut my bank account down. And they sent me this letter which says:


“Very important! We’ve closed our account. We want to let, you know, that we can’t offer you banking facilities anymore. So we’ve closed your account today, under the terms and conditions of the account. We can withdraw banking facilities at any time. And in line with our company policy, we don’t give further information about how we’ve made our decision. What we’ve done, we’ve enclosed a check for.”



And then it’s for the amount that was in my bank account. That’s no good, because I haven’t got a bank account so I can’t do anything with it. And then it just says:


“Thank you for your cooperation.”


And so basically, I did some research, and there’s three reasons why they can lock your bank account without you committing a crime, or anything like that. The first one is fraud. But I know that it wasn’t fraud with me, because he told me that it wasn’t fraud with me. The second reason is if you’re cashing bad cheques so, for example, if I’m writing a cheque knowing that there’s no money in my bank account, and then it bounces. But I know it’s not that, because I’ve never written a cheque in my entire life! I don’t even have a chequebook. And the third reason is funding terrorism. So [nervous chuckle] I guess it must be that one!


But yeah, they basically shut my bank account down. And I’ll pass over to Mark in a moment. But the reason why we wanted to alert people to this is two reasons. First of all, this could happen to anyone! And they don’t need to give a reason why they do it. I was basically “un-personed” for about three weeks. And luckily I had my fiance that I could rely on. But if you live by yourself and they do this to you, then I want everyone to be aware that make sure that you either keep cash in the house, so that you can still buy food and stuff, or make sure that you’ve got another bank account where you can pay your bills and things. Because if you end up in the situation that I was in, and then you don’t have someone that you can rely on, basically you’re screwed!


And then the second point to make is that we do seem to be edging closer and closer towards a cashless society, nowadays. And with coronavirus this has really been amplified recently. And it seems like they want to get rid of cash totally, and do everything cashless. I don’t know if you guys have been out for a drink, or out for some food while we’ve been on under lockdown, but you can’t pay for your food with cash in most places at the moment. It’s totally cashless!


If we do go cashless in Britain, and then get rid of cash. And then they do to you what they’ve just done to me you’re absolutely screwed! Because the government have the power to totally control what you’re able to do. But then they also have the power to totally monitor everything that you do, as well! And that is a really big worry for me. And this whole situation has just been a massive wake-up call for me.


I mean, luckily I did keep some cash in my house. Not loads but enough to buy food over the last few weeks and that. And when I had to buy something online, I’d give a bit of money to my fiance and use his card to do it. But it’s just been a total nightmare over the last, it’s been about a month, that we’ve had to put up with this. And it’s happened to Mark as well. But his story is a little bit different. So, I actually spoke to Mark when I was in the bank. He phoned me. And it was to do with something completely different, and I just found out that my account had been locked. And I said to Mark:


“Mark, have you ever had one of your accounts being locked?”


Because obviously, straight away, I was thinking is this political. And Mark said to me on the phone:


“It happened to me a few days ago, as well.”


So I guess you can tell your own story Mark.




Mark: Well obviously something similar happened to me. It happened to me and I thought it was just an error. Now I’ve had problems before with errors like that. When you receive payments from things like Kindle publishing, etc., payments from America. Occasionally they query payments like that. And I thought:


“Oh, it’s just one of these things, where they’ve locked the card.”


And also, I had some problems earlier in the year with a card being locked, because I bought some software for, … I’ve got a new PC and I wanted to get the latest Microsoft Office suite. And I bought the full thing. But there’s a site I think it’s called — this is a really good tip actually — it’s called “CJS CD Keys” and they basically sell full software. You don’t get a disk, or anything, but you get a CD key and the Right to download the software onto your computer. And I got the whole Microsoft Office suite for about 13, or 14 quid, when usually it’s priced at around 400.


And using this site caused the bank to call me. And they were like:


“Oh, we’ve locked your card and temporarily limited your account.”


And I’m like, :




And they’re like:


“Oh, well this site uses a strange payment process which is often associated with fraud?”


And I thought:


“It’s just going to be one of these things again. I must have just bought something like that. Maybe I was making a, …”


And I was making a card payment at the time actually to a printer that prints my books. Because I actually had to order a couple of books for people I was sending them out. And I thought that’s all it was. They refused to tell me why my account was under review.


Now this has obviously happened to myself and Laura now, and at the same time. And I believe, as Laura does, that this is completely politically motivated! This is being done to scare us, and trying to force us out of doing what we’re doing. And at the time I thought mine was completely innocent. I obviously spoke to my solicitor. He actually thought it was innocent at the time, because he said:


“Did this happen when I was making a card payment?”


Yes. And that was when I was ordering the books. He said:


“Oh, that can be easily resolved, and I’m sure it will be in a couple of days.”


Now obviously Laura’s wasn’t resolved in any way. Laura, did you mention, the name of your bank?


Laura: I didn’t mention it. And everybody is asking me in the chat to mention it. I’m actually happy to say who it is, but can they, ..


Mark: I’m happy for you to mention who it is. Go ahead and do that!


Laura: Can I get into trouble?


Mark: No. Tell them it’s what happened.


Laura: Okay. So I banked with Santander. And they were the ones who sent me the letter saying that they’ve shut my account down, and they don’t need to give me a reason why.


Mark: So yeah. Now we don’t really want to give huge amounts of personal details on this. But it is worth letting, you know, that this is the kind of persecution that we will face! And we have faced other persecution!


Now, this leads into our next point, which is again about persecution we face. Now when we applied to the Electoral Commission to start a political party, I went to great lengths to ensure that the constitution we submitted was legal! In fact, we used a constitution from an existing political party, whose constitution has already been accepted by the Electoral Commission. Obviously we changed the names and we changed other key parts to ensure it complied with us, and our aims, etc.


But we used an existing constitution, because we were advised to do so by a solicitor. And the solicitor stated if you use one that’s, … Because a constitution doesn’t have to be completely unique and written from scratch. You can obviously use a skeleton of someone else’s.


Now we were rejected for our constitution, which as I said, was very, very, similar to another constitution which was accepted. And it took them months, and months, to reject ours. And at the time they also rejected our party submission, because of the “tick” in the Patriotic Alternative logo. So I said:




We’ll remove the tick and change the little bit they suggested in the constitution, and sent it back to them. It was months, and months, again. And they rejected it for another spurious reason! We, at the time, said, … And some bad actors said that:


“Oh, we messed it up on purpose! That it wasn’t persecution!”


Some people even, who claim to be nationalists, were trying to state that the Electoral Commission are somehow fair and impartial. This is absolutely nonsense!


It took them months to look at our application. When the “Black Lives Matter” party applied, it took them two weeks to rub a stamp it. I’d love to see their constitution. And if anyone wants to join that party just for information gathering, and request a copy of the constitution, please do. So because wouldn’t it be amazing if we took their constitution, and just changed the names of Patriotic Alternative where needed, and submitted that. And then saw how we were treated. Because I am sure we are being treated with exceptional circumstances to derail us!


But anyway, we resubmitted our application. We changed the logo for use on the ballot paper. And they rejected us again, after taking months. [20:01] We have now resubmitted our application to the electoral commission. And we have made every single change to our constitution that they told us we needed to make. We’ll see how they come back, how long it takes them to come back. And we will go from there.


But I believe that the oppression we’re facing, the scrutiny we’re under, and the electoral commission rejecting us, and taking so long to reject us, are all part of a concerted effort to prevent any proper ethno-nationalist party from forming, or registering through legal means!


However, as I said, the submission is back in, and we will see where it goes. Now, if I was a betting man, I would probably bet on the side of them frustrating us, by keeping it for ages, and then turning us down again.


But if it comes to it, quite simply, we will stand candidates as Independents. And those Independents will have very flashy Patriotic Alternative leaflets, which will support their cause. The only difference this would make is, whilst the candidate’s name will be on the ballot paper, the Patriotic Alternative logo would not appear on the ballot paper.


And that’s about the long and short of it really. We are doing our best! We are facing extreme persecution. But I think I speak for both myself and Laura, and Laura can always correct me if I don’t speak for her. But there’s no way we’re going to give in! And we’re not going to bow our heads. And it doesn’t matter how many bank accounts they close, or how many times the electoral commission frustrate us. We are going to keep doing this. And they aren’t going to stop us!


And despite everything that we’ve faced over the last few weeks and months, we’re in pretty high spirits. We’re pretty happy with the way things are going. And we have now, thankfully, got through the negatives.


Because we wanted to do the negatives first. We don’t want this show to just be myself and Laura complaining. We want this show to be upbeat. And we do have lots of positives to talk about.


So I am going to start by talking about the first positive. And remember if you want please use the Entropy link. You can ask paid questions. But you can also ask unpaid questions. So if you have any questions for myself and Laura, please use the Entropy link, ask non-paid questions. You don’t have to give a donation if you don’t want to.


Obviously any donation is very much appreciated. Those donations go towards PA and making sure myself and Laura keep our heads above water. But the fact of the matter is you can ask non-paid questions as well. So any questions you wish to ask do so through the course of the show and we’ll answer them at the end.


But let’s get on to, …


Laura: Sorry Mark. So do you mind if just before we go on to the next topic if I just really quickly reiterate the piece of advice I gave a moment ago about the bank accounts, because this can happen to anybody and they don’t need to give a reason for doing it.


So I just, I really want everyone to make sure that they either have cash stored in their house, or they have another bank account, because Mark and I have basically been un-personed over the last month.


And you don’t realize how difficult it is to function in society in 2020, until you get everything taken off you. So just please make sure that you start, even if it’s just a hundred pounds, and it can buy you food for a couple of weeks, because I don’t want anyone else to end up going through what we just went through.






Mark: That is a very good point. But now let’s hit people with some positives. Because people have been asking for something. They’ve been asking for it for a long time. And we are delivering! Now what are we delivering on? That is the Patriotic Alternative website! And we have some new developments!


If you go to the Leaflets and Resources section, we now have three leaflets. We have “White Britons to be a Minority”. We have “Covid 19: End the Lockdown”. We have “White Lives Matter”. And we have a very stylish Patriotic Alternative business card! These items can all be downloaded from the Patriotic Alternative website.


[Image] Patriotic Alternative Leaflets and Business Card — available at:


If you download them, they are what is known as “Print Ready”. And that means they are in the correct color profile, CMYK. They have two millimeters of bleed to each outer edge. And you can upload them to multiple “Print On Demand” websites. All you have to do is do a web search for “A5 leaflet” printing, or business card printing. Upload these designs. You can print them very cheaply, professionally, that way. They will be delivered to your house and you can start doing activism in your own area!




These things are just the beginning, these leaflets are just the beginning. We have more planned. More will be added when major events happen. I will add them to this, and it will become an archive of leaflets and resources! This is, … The chat seem to like them! The chat seem to like them, that is good. And I’m sure they will be very popular.


We worked very hard on them. And specifically the Covid leaflet. We understand that some people have been affected by Covid, and we worked very, very, hard to ensure that these leaflets are sensitive to people who may have been medically affected by Covid, whilst at the same time calling for an end to this absolutely scandalous lockdown! And for British people to be returned their rights!


Because at the moment what is actually happening is completely disgusting! And the fact that we are being told this might go on well into next year. We’re not allowed to meet even with family members, it looks like, at Christmas. Absolutely shocking! Laura, what are your thoughts on the new leaflets? What’s the response been like?


Laura: Yeah, so we already have regional groups across the country who have been getting them printed off. And they’ve been meeting up for activism days, and going around and handing them out and delivering them.


So as you guys probably are aware we have national events at Patriotic Alternative. But we also have the regional ones. So we currently have regional groups in Yorkshire, the West Mids, the East Mids, London, and the South East. And we will have a few more regional groups very, very, close to a couple more regional groups as well. And our guys sometimes for their regional mates, you know, rather than going on a hike and doing a banner, or just going and having a few drinks together, they’ve actually been leafleting now, instead.


And the Yorkshire group have a leafleting day, I think in a couple of weeks? I’m not exactly sure what date it is. But we have a leafleting day coming up. So we’re going to go and deliver some leaflets through some doors. But yeah, it’s exciting, because it gives people a way to spread our message away from the internet. So yeah, it’s only positive really! And I absolutely love the 2White Minority” one. I think that’s my favorite one.


Mark: Well, thank you. And we have other good news! Laura talked about regional groups. Well we have appointed a new regional organizer. There are multiple regional PA groups, and the latest is Scotland! Scotland obviously did amazing work when it came to the Indigenous People’s Day. They now have their own regional organizer.


So if you’re Scottish, if you want to get involved, if you want to be active, if you want to set up a group in your town, or city, email: Scotland at Patriotic UK. That is: Scotland at Patriotic dot UK. And you can get involved in Scotland on the ground level, and you can start putting out leaflets and business cards today. There’s gonna be plenty of stuff going on up there.


And another great morale boost, is people who are heavily involved in running the Scottish region for PA, are ex-BNP. There’s many ex-BNP people involved up there. That is fantastic news! I’ve known these people for years. They’re absolute stalwarts! They’ve done amazing work in the past for nationalism. And it’s wonderful to get people of that quality back on board, back active, and doing fantastic nationalist work! So thank you so much to everyone who has made Scottish PA happen.


And again, if you want to get involved in Scottish PA, it is: Scotland at Patriotic Alternative dot org dot UK. If you’re in the area, fill their inbox with good wishes, and tell them to get in get in touch with you and you can be active too!


And hopefully, as new regions are set up, these will be followed by local branches. So soon cities will have their own PA branches. We’ll have regional organizers, followed by branch organizers, and our aim is to eventually have a branch organizer in every town, and city, all over the United Kingdom!


Now, you know, the Scottish organizer, Laura. You’ll be particularly happy about his appointment.


Laura: Yes, I’m very happy about it! And when you messaged me, and you was like:


“What do you think of this guy?”


I was just like, yes! I love him! So, he’s a really great guy very committed. Lots of experience and I think everyone will love him. I actually love all of the regional organizers. You know, sometimes in political organizations, you see that people don’t get on with each other. I genuinely really love all our regional organizers. I think we’ve got six really great men. I’m not sure if we’ll ever have a female regional organizer? Maybe.


But yes, the groups are just going really well. They’re getting larger and larger. I think the Yorkshire group now, must be, we must have about 50 regular people that come to events. So yeah we just keep growing.





Mark: And talking of growth, we’ve got nearly 900 watching on DLive, and nearly a 1,000 watching on YouTube. So what a phenomenal number of people turning out to watch this broadcast tonight! Absolutely brilliant! And obviously there’s also over 30 people watching on Entropy. So we’re pushing 2,000 viewers tonight over the two platforms, which is fantastic!


And just a small reminder for those who are watching on YouTube. If you’ve been wondering where my content is, it is on BitChute. And PWR’s new home is DLive. So make sure you have my BitChute account subbed. And make sure you are subscribed to me on DLive as well. We are back on YouTube tonight, because hopefully this is a safe stream, so it won’t be interrupted as previous streams have been on this platform.


Now, we’ve talked about leaflets, we have talked about the new regional organizer. But something else that we do need to talk about — and I’m going to share my screen again — is our home-schooling group. As you can see, we have an alternative curriculum. And that is filling out more, and more, all the time. And we are adding to it at the moment with our early years. We have early years, great books for under seven. How to teach your children how to write. And we also have early years maths, which Laura will be uploading soon. That’s finished and ready to go on the site. We have history, literature, computer science, maths, music, photography, recommended reading. But we also have “early years”.


So if you are teaching your children how to read, how to write, if you want book suggestions, or if you’re teaching them early mathematics, we have now got those bases covered. And the wonderful lady who is dealing with the “early years” material is busy working on a number of other illustrated works. She has an illustrator working with her. And she is producing original works with original illustrations!


So that is something to look forward to and I’m always really proud of what everyone in the home-schooling group is doing. They’re all fabulous, fabulous people! This is something that is so important! It pushes back against the brainwashing going on in school.


Do you have anything to add about the home-schooling Laura, because I know you work very closely with those in the group?


Laura: Just it’s a really nice project to work on. And I just want to say thank you to everyone who volunteers their time for us. We’ve got obviously the main lady who runs the project. But then there are a team of other teachers, male and female, who give up their free time to create content for us and we call it the “Alternative Curriculum”. But obviously it’s not a full curriculum yet, because we haven’t done every subject for every age group, a full year of content. It’s a work in progress.


But at the moment it’s at the stage where you can just pull off a lesson, here and there. They’re all categorized by age group. So you can go to Key Stage Three, or Key Stage Four, and you can take a maths lesson, or a history lesson. And just do a bit of extra work with your child at home.


And it’s just really nice, wholesome content. I did actually notice that Mike Stutchbury had a bit of a meltdown and wrote a massive thread about it on Twitter. And he was just saying that it was really extreme and all that stuff! And then he got to the end of his thread, and he went something about:


“Not being able to find something. They’ve obviously played it safe. They’ve obviously held back a lot and played it safe.”


And it was like:


“Yes! So basically you couldn’t find anything wrong with it.”


But it’s just had an entirely positive response so far. And lots of parents have been in touch with me through the contact form on the website saying that they’ve been doing activities with their children. And yeah, it’s just something that we’re going to continue working on over time. I think for as long as Patriotic Alternative is around, the Alternative Curriculum will also be around.


And I know when I have children it’s something that I’d like to use as well. So it’s all available for free as well. We don’t charge anyone to be able to download any content. You can download it and save it on your computer and use it whenever you want. But yeah, I hope you all like it, because we’ve worked really hard on it.


Mark: We certainly have! Well I haven’t! I mean, the home-schooling group have. I have to take my hat off to all these people.


This is the importance of PA! PA isn’t just myself, it’s not just Laura. There is such a talented team working behind the scenes on so many different aspects of the organization! Whether it’s the regional organizers, whether it is the home-schooling group, whether it’s the team who does the website. And the website is phenomenal! The website has at least one article, or opinion piece, posted per day. So if you’re not going on the website every day, you are missing out! There is always something there to share to social media. There’s always something there to read, and it is paying off.





Now I said earlier that the establishment is scared of us. I said earlier that we have a huge amount of support. And this can be backed up not just by anecdotal evidence. Not just, because we get lots of emails, not, because people are generally enthusiastic about what we’re doing. But this can be backed up with facts and statistics.


And the best way to do this is to talk about the traffic going to our website and to compare it with other nationalist groups, or so-called nationalist groups.


And let’s start at the bottom of the pile with today’s losers. And they are UKIP. UKIP is currently not even ranking it’s so low down it’s searched so few times, it doesn’t actually turn up in the Alexa data, or didn’t today. The next is Hearts of Oak. Hearts of Oak have the six millionth [magic number] most popular website. They are ranked six million obviously with one being ranked the best, they are ranked six million. That is Hearts of Oak. So not too good there for Sargon and the boys. He sank UKIP’s ship and they don’t even show up on the radar anymore. But he isn’t doing too much better with Hearts of Oak.


The next are Britain, First. Their website is ranked a lowly for million! Better than Hearts of Oak. But I think we can do better. Now For Britain, they are higher than Britain, First. They have a website ranking of 1.4 million. Not too bad. But I think PA can do better.


And, in fact, we have done better! Our exact rank is 624, 758! We are massively above For Britain! We are massively above Britain, First! Who are languishing somewhere at over for million. Much, much better than UKIP and Hearts of Oak.


Now to put this into perspective to put this into perspective our rank being 624, 758. The Conservative’s website, that is, the party of governance, theirs is ranked 609, 175. So not only are we eclipsing all of the other nationalist parties in the UK, not only are we blowing For Britain, Britain, First, and Hearts of Oak, right out of the water, but we are knocking on the Conservative’s door! With a little bit of an extra push, next time we do one of these live streams where we discuss PA, we could well be above the Conservatives!


Now again, I can’t take any credit for this is. This is largely Laura’s doing. Laura is a complete whiz with the website. She does excellent editing work. She’s prepared a team of people who write amazing articles. And, of course, she’s assisted by some very, very talented coders.


Now I’m not going to give their names out. But I just want to thank both of them. They know who they are. One, his name begins with “in”, and the other one’s name begins with “Jew”. You guys have done amazing work! Thank you so much for everything you’ve done! And it gives me great pleasure to know that the website is being read that much, and that we’re so close to the Conservatives already. Fantastic!


But Laura please take some of the credit for this, because your editing and your work arranging the team of writers has been tireless.


Laura: Well, thank you. But as always it’s a team effort. Obviously we’ve got Mark leading PA. Then we’ve got the technical guys that Mark just mentioned. We’ve got a team of writers who volunteer for us.


So I have a writer’s chat on Telegram. And they just basically suggest article ideas and then write an article. And I log into the website. What’s it called? Like, “Interface”, maybe? I think that’s the correct word. I look into that once a day and I edit and publish any articles that are ready to go. So it’s a team of volunteers really that help us fill it with articles.


Obviously we’ve got the other tabs on there as well. Like we’ve got “Our Plan”, we’ve got the “About” page, ways to “Get Involved”, some information about “Demographics”. We’ve got “PATV” as well, if you want to watch some videos.


And we also have the “In Memoriam” page. I can never say that I don’t know why! Which is a very sad page. But it’s basically a page of White victims who have died, because of multiculturalism. So they’ve been killed in terror attacks, or they’ve been, I don’t know, knocked over by illegal immigrants who have been driving cars, and things like that. And it’s just a way to remember our people. Because everyone’s always like, you know, Stephen Lawrence and George Floyd and stuff. But nobody pays attention to Emily Jones, or Rebecca Kane, or Chris Donald, or any of these people.


So the website is just doing really well! And I can’t believe that we’re just behind the Conservative Party! That’s the current government in Britain and we’re getting about the same amount of traffic as them. So it’s just such a White pill! And once again I hope everyone’s happy with the work that we’re doing on there.


And I think we should set ourselves a challenge, Mark! I think we should try to overtake the Tories by our next update stream! Do you think we can do it in a month?





I think we’d need a lot of help from the audience. I think a lot of people would need to be sharing the links and everything. But if the audience will help out we’ll certainly do our best.


Laura: Yeah, well that was it. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who helps out with the website, and onwards and upwards! Hopefully we can just keep it going.


And by the way, if anyone does want to write an article for us, if you just want to send me an email at: Hello at we where never asked dot company dot UK. And I can read your article and see what it’s like. And if it’s any good we can get it up on the website as well.


Mark: Thank you. Now before we go to the questions, because this isn’t going to be a long stream tonight we realize people probably got better things to do than just sit up all night watching us on YouTube and Dlive. But before we do the questions, I’m going to throw this over to Laura again. How is the tea going? I’ve seen the logo, it’s amazing! I know you’ve been doing great work, but give everyone an update, because I’m sure everyone is very excited about the prospect of having their first cup of Grandma Towler’s Tea.


Laura: Yes. So we’re launching in November. And you can actually go to Grandma dot UK [ /] now. And you can type in your email address and then you’ll get a notification when the website does go live. Because the website’s not live at the moment. It’s just like a little template where you can put your email address in. I have actually finished the website but you can’t see it yet.



But yeah, we’re gonna go live in November. And basically I’m just waiting for the packaging to be confirmed and making sure all the sizes are right, and stuff like that. And then I can get that printed. And then I can get the tea sent to me. And we can go live with the website. So everything’s done really. All the design work, the website’s built, we’ve got the logo, we’ve got the blend of the tea. It’s just a few sort of like little technicalities that I’m waiting on now for people to fulfill from it. And then we’re ready to go.


But yeah, we’re gonna launch in November. And we sell the tea in packs of 80 tea bags. So you can buy like one pack, or you can buy like a multiple bundle where it’s a little bit cheaper. But yeah, once again I hope everyone likes it. We’ve worked really hard on Grandma Towler’s as well.


And I’ve said this before, but it’s a separate company to Patriotic Alternative, so if you look at Patriotic Alternatives books you’re not going to see a load of tea going through the records. But any profits from Grandma Towler’s are going to be donated to Patriotic Alternative. And obviously if someone’s sat packing tea all day, they’ll have to be paid a salary. But any profits after that are going to be invested straight back into nationalism, because that’s what we started it for.


Mark: Well I think that is good news. We’ve had a lot of White pills tonight. We had a bit of a pressure early on. A bit of discussion about the oppression. But I think we’ve got past that, and we’ve certainly brightened people’s spirits up. So let’s do the, we’ll do the Superchats first. Then we’ll do the questions.


Daniel Lewis gave 20 pounds. Thank you very much my friend. And he said:




Gas head gave five pounds. Thank you very much. Said:


“No question. Just wanted to bung you a fiver.”


Thank you very much.


Gareth Thompson gave five US dollars and said:


“Hi Mark? Do those of us who donate to you need to reset our standing order?”


I don’t think you do. I don’t think you do. I will check. But at the moment I do not think you do. But thank you for asking.


Steph Dev gave three US dollars. Thank you very much. And he said:


“You guys should talk to Ryan Dawson about how many times he has been bank denied.”


I’m definitely open to talking to other people like this. I know it’s happened to Martin Sellner before, and it has happened to others.


The Thin Red Line gave five US dollars and said:


“PA for the future!”


Thank you very much my friend.


Marty Morozzi gave five pounds. Thank you very much. He said:


“Can a legal challenge be mounted against the EC [Electoral Commission] if they continue to dither and turn PA’s application down?”


It can. But as I said, we have other ways around it and we will soldier on.


Bailiff Bashar gave three US dollars. Thank you very much. He said:


“Mark at what time are PA going to be on the ballot box?”


Well we’ve said, the applications in with the Electoral Commission. And we are going from there. Thank you very much. Serena JB gave five pounds. Thank you very much Serena. She said:


“Very sorry to hear about this latest form of real oppression. We really live in a dystopian hell where White people are targeted for standing up for their own group.”


Well, thank you very much.


Disappear Forever gave 20 US dollars. Thank you very much. He said:


“We need a ‘favor and bargain system’. Earlier there was a discussion about big ten no standards in movement, or purity spiraling. I myself think we need a pure core with standards, but not excessive purity spiraling. Where do you guys stand on that?”


Well that’s a good question. I’ll go first. I think that our movement should be a movement of redemption! Everybody alive today has been brought up in a society that is poisoned!


Now that means we’ve all drank from the (((poisoned well))). We’ve all gone to the river to drink, and we’ve all ingested some of the poison. And it affects us differently. I have people writing to me on a daily basis with problems they may have been addicted to drink, to drugs. They may struggle with addictions to computer games. They may have different social anxieties where they don’t want to leave the house and they’ve just sat on benefits, and they don’t want to do anything with their life.


And now they want a way out. I speak to people who have been addicted to sex, to pornography. I’ve spoken to people who have engaged in homosexual lesbian relationships, only to realize it was a mistake, and they were conned into doing that. Convinced that that was progressive, and good.


And, because of this, because of the fact that everyone’s been affected somehow by this poison, we have to be a movement of redemption. We have to say to people:


“We are a home for everybody who has seen that there is a better way and wants to change!”


We have to be a clean movement! But we also have to be open to people who have in the past engaged in things that we wouldn’t want to endorse. And I believe that if we hold that line, that we are about redemption, we are about improving our people, and ourselves, and that we welcome people who have made mistakes, as long as they acknowledge those mistakes and wish to change, I think we can build a really positive movement!


And if anyone comes to me with purity spiraling. If anyone says:


“Well this particular guy, he shouldn’t be allowed in! This particular woman, oh she did something a few years ago!”


Well, my question to that person would be:


“Have you never fallen from grace? Have you never engaged in anything that would be immoral? Have you had any addictions? Have you done anything that you would say would be negative?”


And I think if everyone was honest — and I’m not going to sit here and ask everyone to name their particular vice, or the things they’ve done wrong. But we all know if we’re being honest with ourselves, that we’ve all done things that aren’t perfect. And I believe that we have to acknowledge that. We have to be honest. We have to be welcoming.


And I think PA is striking the Right balance. We will never endorse degeneracy! We will never endorse anti-western activities. But at the same time we understand that everyone who comes and knocks on our door has been affected by degeneracy and anti-western activities, in one way, or another.


What would you have to say about this Laura? Are you a purity spiraler, or is it anything goes policy. What do you think?





Laura: Somewhere in the middle I think, because a lot of people come over to nationalism later in the life. Obviously not everyone, you know, we have lots of zoomers that support us up here. But a lot of the people who have joined PA didn’t realize that they were a nationalist until they were in their 30s, or their 40s, or I have people who watch my YouTube videos who are in their 70s and 80s! And they’re only just waking up!


So a lot of our people are victims of this broken society, and they’ve done things in their youth that maybe they wish they didn’t do. Like maybe I don’t know, maybe there’s someone who went around and had a load of promiscuous sex, or something, and now that man, or woman is older, they’re thinking like:


“Wow! That really didn’t satisfy me. I shouldn’t have done that.”


And we need to offer people an incentive to change. Because I’m not one of these people who wants nationalism to be a little fringe movement that only one percent of people can join. I want nationalism to go mainstream. And if there’s no incentive for people to improve, then why would anyone ever change and become a nationalist?




So we have to offer people that redemption arc. And I think the best thing that we can do is, all of us, not just me and Mark, everyone listening to this, is try and lead by example. And try and say to people like:


“Look don’t do this, because it will make you unhappy. Have you tried doing this instead.”


So, I get bored of the purity spiraling. I think it’s boring! I don’t respond to it. Because usually the people who are pushing it at you are even worse to be honest. The stuff that they get up to. But we have to give people a second chance.


And as Mark said, if they’re still doing it then, you know, fair enough, we don’t want them. But if people say:


“Yeah, I made some mistakes but I’ve learned the error of my ways.”


Then I think that we should accept them. And like I said, I want nationalism to go mainstream. I want 100 percent of the people in this country to be nationalists, not just one percent. So, we have to allow people to grow and change.


Mark: That’s an excellent answer. I think we’re united on what we’re saying there. So I hope that was a comprehensive answer.


A Full Natty Bro gave 10 US dollars. Thank you very much. He said:


“Appreciate the hard work and determination you and Laura do for the movement.”


Thank you very much my friend.


A Vocal Pelican gave 10 US dollars and said:


“I wish there was a PA USA. Anyone you’re talking to lead a branch?”


Well I would suggest anyone wanting to get involved in something similar to PA in America should contact Mike Enoch and get involved with the National Justice Party. They seem to be doing very similar work to what we’re doing. We’re on very good terms with them and we wish them all the best. Thank you for the superchat.


Disappear Forever said:


“You should still announce things and link to BitChute from here before you upload. I didn’t know you guys left the site.”


Oh, he gave three US dollars. Thank you very much Disappear Forever! Yes. We should potentially do that and that has been something we’ve overlooked. I will use YouTube more to inform my subscriber base here what we’re up to that’s a very good point thank you for the suggestion and the superchat.


David Peterson gave 20 pounds. Thank you very much my friend he says:


“Thanks for all your hard work. It’s very much appreciated.”


Thank you.


The Thin Red Line gave five US dollars and said:


“Best wishes.”


Thank you very much my friend.


The Vile Delinquent gave three US dollars. Thank you very much. He said:


“Good to hear from you again Mark. You may have spoken of this before. I missed it. What are your thoughts on the National Justice Party?”


Well I think we’ve answered that. We did a long stream with Mike Enoch. He was on PWR a few weeks back. It’s on BitChute. I give my full thoughts there. We spoke to Mike, we asked questions to him. We think they’re doing great work. And we support their aims and objectives. Thank you for the superchat.


Jordan Ambrose gave five pounds. Thank you very much. He said:


“When is the next meet Mark, Laura? I’m down in Kent and new to PA. I’d love to meet you guys.”


Well Kent is in the South East. You have your own regional organizer South East at Patriotic UK. They do regular activities. The regional organizer, Theo, is a fantastic guy! Get in touch with him. Absolutely superb! As for large meetings we can’t comment yet, because of the Covid legislation.


Revoltron gave 10 US dollars. Thank you very much my friend. He said:


“Thank you both for everything you’re doing for our people.”


Thank you for the superchat.


Ordo Nature gave 25 pounds. Thank you very much, generous donation. He said:


“You guys are an inspiration! Thanks for the work you do and the White pills. Hoping Grandma Towler’s has ‘rui bus’.”


Do, you know what that means? I don’t know what that means. Maybe I’ve read something I shouldn’t have. That a joke? Am I missing the joke? Either way, thank you very much for the superchat!


Lord Aragorn says:


“Does Grandma Towler’s tea ship?”


He gave five US dollars. Thank you very much. He says:


“Does Grandma Towler’s tea ship to the States? I’ll buy it! Much support from the US!”


Laura, shipping?


Laura: Yes. Worldwide shipping [chuckling]. Yeah.


Mark: Superb!


Jacketeerio gave three US dollars and said:


“Great debate you had Mark. Unfortunately it’s hard to convince Kodzo though, when he had a preconceived bias of not wanting to be convinced. Also when you will appear on Andy’s stream again? Andy Warski’s.”


Well, thank you for the three dollar superchat. And whenever Andy wants me I will be there. Love working with him. We’ve got plans when he moves to Portugal of him coming to visit and taking part in one of our hardcore assault courses. Thank you for the superchat.


Now we will do the questions. There’s been quite a few people ask this question in the chat tonight. So if you’ve asked this question, or a similar question I’m deleting them all. So to get them out, I’ve just deleted them all.


Chris from Patriotic Talk said:


“Great news! Britain First has now adopted the voluntary repatriation approach. What are your thoughts on that?”


Well, Britain First, definitely one of the most grifty parties out there. I don’t like their approach. I don’t like the endless begging letters. I don’t like the confrontation. But I think it’s very suspicious.



What do you think Laura? Is it suspicious that they’ve existed for over 10 years, but only now only now with PA on the scene have they started talking about demographics, and suggested a repatriation policy that’s almost identical to the one that is front and center within our PA 20 Point Plan. Are you suspicious? Do you think they might be copying from our playbook, Laura? Do you think Britain First would be that shameless?





Laura: Obviously they’ve copied it, because we’re pushing it. They did a stream a few months ago about demographics, where they gave their solutions to fix Britain. And they didn’t mention repatriation in that stream at all. They just said, you know, close the borders, and a few other things. So for them to be going for so long and to only just start talking about repatriation, obviously they’ve got it from us.


And I’m not saying that we “invented” repatriation, because it’s something that’s happened across the whole world for centuries. But in Britain we were the only organization who were talking about repatriation. And now they are. And I’m not complaining about it, I think it’s good that more people are talking about repatriation.


But let’s be very clear, they’re talking about it, because we’re talking about it. And if you actually go on their website they have a page called “Race, Immigration and Demographics”. And if you scroll down to the middle of the page it says something like:


“It’s about space, not race.”


Which I find strange! I mean, you’re not a nationalist if it’s not about race are you? So I’m not really sure if they are nationalists and what they believe. But yeah, obviously they copied this from us. But it’s fine, because we want more people to be discussing repatriation.


Mark: We certainly don’t. And I want to echo what Laura said. When you see the Britain First site — not many people are reading it clearly we went through that earlier — but those who do read it, and read it carefully, can see they have a section which says:


“It’s not about race, it’s about space.”


Well I’m sorry Britain First, it has everything to do with race! We are here, Patriotic Alternative are here to defend the indigenous people. Britain First are there to make people a little, well two people, a little bit wealthier. And the particularly gobby one of that couple who has obviously got her position, because of who she’s sleeping with. Because apparently in Britain First the only way to be appointed as deputy leader is to sleep with the leader, henceforth that’s why Jayda and the rather gobby Ashley got their positions.


But this woman refuses to debate Laura. She keeps taking her policies and talking about why Britain First, are the only ones talking about repatriation. They’re not! Why won’t she debate Laura? Laura offered her a debate and she’s running. Britain First are very good at sending begging letters. But they’re not so good when it comes to open debate. And I think we all know why.


The fact of the matter is, Patriotic Alternative have been in existence for just over a year. And in just over a year we have forced Britain First and For Britain, two organizations that predated us, one of them that’s been going for a decade, to change their manifestos, to change their policy, to change their outlook, and forced both of them to start talking about demographics and streaming about issues to do with demographic change! None of this would have happened without this amazing Patriotic Alternative community.


And that is another reason why we are winning! We are winning, because we are shifting the Overton Window in our direction! We are making all of these grifter civilization at parties start to talk about ethno-nationalist talking points! And that is another real result!


And the fact none of them will debate us. They can send out endless begging letters, and those begging letters are absolutely disgusting, I saw the one that they sent to Laura’s grandma. And if anyone ever suggested PA should send out coercive, begging letters like that I’d be disgusted! You want to say a few words about that Laura? Because that was absolutely horrific!


Laura: Yeah, I don’t like to get into kind of like bitchy stuff with other movements, but the emails that they send out are absolutely disgusting! And my Grandma was signed up for their newsletter. She received five emails in a week, and two of them were asking for money. And the second one said something like, let’s pretend my grandma’s called Barbara. It was like:


“Hi Barbara. I think you’ve made a mistake. I look down at my list of people who have donated to our new minibus, and your name wasn’t on it Barbara. Is this a mistake Barbara?”


Something like that. And then it’s like:


“If you want to correct this, you need to do it fast!”


It’s just horrible, horrible, begging emails! And if Mark ever suggested that he was going to do something like that with PA I would have to call shot, and say:


“Mark you are not doing that!”


Because I find it incredibly manipulative. So I don’t like to get into these like beef sessions with other nationalist organizations. But I am going to take a stand on this, because their begging emails are just absolutely disgusting!


And they will be watching this debate so, they will be watching this stream as well. So I would just like to say that if Ashley, or Paul, do want to debate me I’m happy to debate both of them. But I’m not jumping through hoops, and going and doing activism and stuff with them first, which is what they’re expecting me to do. But if you do want to debate me let’s do it!





Mark: Yeah we offered them a debate, but their silly response, or Ashley’s silly response, was that she would only debate Laura if it was on the cobbles somewhere, in the streets. You know, when they do these silly activities where they go to a heavily enriched area start handing out leaflets. And then she struts down the street pointing her fingers at people whilst gobbing off with two sort of portly men behind her in case it all goes a bit pear-shaped.


There’s absolutely no way that Laura and myself are engaging in that kind of troublesome activity that gets nationalism a bad name. And the last thing we’re going to do is turn up in a place like Telford and debate, in the middle of the high street in something that would not look out of place on the Jeremy Kyle show! This isn’t Jeremy Carl nationalism. And if Britain First want to engage in Jeremy Carl nationalism, I am very, very happy to leave them to do that!


Just as I’m happy to allow them to keep taking points from our 20-point plan. I can imagine it now, they’re sat there in their HQ literally going through our point by point scheme looking at what they can crib from it in a desperate attempt to try and take a few of our supporters.


But I think that’s enough of them. We’ve answered all those questions I say. I’m deleting any further questions in the chat about those. But it seems that that answers a lot of the chat that’s been going around.


But just to reiterate if they want to stop being chicken and debate us, we are more than willing to let them do that in a formal debate. I am more than happy.


Right we had some more paid superchats.


Blue Four 4014 gave five pounds. Thank you very much. And he said:


“This one’s for Laura.”


I’ll get first to Laura. He says.:


“Why do you think that there’s a massive under-representation of women in the movement? Wish there were more people like Laura.”


Laura: I’m not sure really. I mean, I think that women have had their empathy manipulated in a way so, rather than just showing that to our own people, we’re now expected to show that to the entire world. And maybe a lot of women see it as being a bad person if you don’t, you know, agree with opening up the borders and allowing all these poor refugees in and stuff like that. I think maybe women are a little bit more sensitive, and they struggle to sort of like say:


“I will reserve my love for this group, but not for this group.”


Whereas men tend to be a little bit more analytic and they can actually say:


“Well actually no. This is bad for us. So we’ll just stick with this one.”


But I think that a couple of ways to reach women, ways I’ve had success with, is number one, talking about education. And number two talking about the environment. Because on my videos I’ve made about those two topics I have a larger female audience than usual. So you just have to find things that relate to women really, I think, and try and say like:


“Look this is happening to you. It’s happening to your country. It’s happening to your kids! Do you care about it?”


And then the other thing that we can do as well is lead by example. And like I’m not exactly, you know, the perfect sort of, I’m not a mother yet, or anything like that. I am getting married soon. But I think if we can put sort of like, you know, women like Leslie Lynn? Who else have we got that’s, … Lana Lokteff [Red Ice]. Fantastic women who are nationalists and they’re also married and they also have kids. If we can put them on a platform as well, and say like:


“You could be happy if you did this.”


I think that’s a good way to entice women as well.


Mark: Thank you. We’ve got a another superchat here from Disappeared Forever, 20 US dollars. Thank you very much. You’ve been very generous tonight. He said:


“Good answer.”


He asked about the standards. He said:


“My question though, is what’s the base standards though? I’d like people to value themselves. Do some basic exercises daily. Train to fight in whatever capacity they can. Focus on having children and raising them in safe communities.”


Well, I don’t think we can say to people that if they want to play a role in PA, that they have to sign up to some kind of training regime, or, you know, healthy smoothies, or they must have children. Obviously we are a community and we want the best for people in that community.


When people join PA we do our best when, … They don’t join PA. When people come to PA events, or they get involved as a supporter of PA, we don’t have membership at the moment, we do our best to get those people to improve their lives. We do our best to help those people improve their lives. Whether it be in our health and fitness groups. Whether it be suggesting good reading, or educational material. And we already have numerous couples who met at PA events. Laura, you met your fiancee at a PA event!





Laura: Yeah, it was actually kind of pre-PA. So it was like before we launched PA, we all kind of hung out a little bit anyway, and had our own meetings, but it wasn’t under the Patriotic Alternative name. And him and I met at one of those events.


And we’re actually getting married! We might be getting married next month. I’ve not told anyone this yet. But, you know, in the last video that I did where I was saying like my wedding keeps being delayed again, and again, and again, and again! And it’s annoying me, because of the coronavirus!


We’re at the point now where it’s like how long are we going to be waiting? Do you know, I mean? If they said to us you can get married in January, we’d be like:


“Okay let’s get married in January.”


But, because they keep saying:


“We don’t know when it will be.”


We’ve got to the point now where we just like screw it! Let’s just go get married at a registry office. And then when the lockdown lifts we can go and get, you know, like a church ceremony, and a party and have all our family there and stuff like that.


So I think we’re getting married next month. We’ve actually submitted the paperwork. Hopefully we got it in on time. But it’ll just be a registry office wedding, which I’m kind of disappointed about, but I’m still looking forward to marrying him and then trying for a family. And then we’ll have the big party in that next year.


But I’ve gone off in a tangent there, haven’t I? But yeah, we met at a PA event, and we have quite a lot of people who meet at PA events. And we also have people who come along and they’re very shy, and they’re very nervous, and they come along by themselves. And they spend time — if it’s a guy they spend time with some men, or if it’s a woman they spend time with me, or some other women — and they really start to come out of their shell!


And we have some people, who now go to regular exercise sessions with guys in Yorkshire. And they’re starting to become physically stronger and mentally stronger. And it’s just really nice to see people become healthy and transform!


And me, myself, you know, I’m eating keto, I’m getting in shape. And I can see my fitness improving and the way I feel and the way I look, improving. And it’s just nice to be able to do that and to be able to do it with my fellow nationalists.


Mark: Look I think that’s an amazing thing what Laura said. And my summation on this is we don’t expect people to be perfect when they join PA. But, when they get involved we will try and help them improve themselves. And I think that’s the important thing! I think for many people PA is the first step on a journey of self-improvement. And it is great when you’re in shape. I mean, I am 40 this week. I was at the gym today I was lifting really good numbers in a couple of the groups. I was saying to people:


“How’s this for somebody who’s almost 40?”


And yeah, it is great to be fit and to be healthy. But if you’ve never done that before, you need a helping hand going into the gym for the first time can be quite daunting for people, who’ve never done it.


And I can honestly say that for a lot of guys who are a bit out of shape, I wouldn’t turn them away from PA. If they wanted to get fit, I’d welcome them, and help them out. That’s what we need to be doing to people. We don’t need to be scaring people off and beating them away with a stick if they don’t meet some arbitrary standard. We need to be saying to people:


“Come on! Jump on board and we’ll help you achieve something better!”


That is what community is all about.


Walter White gave 25 pounds. Thank you for the generous donation. He said:


“Mark and Laura you’re heroes to me and my family! Thank you for the laughs last night, Mark! That clown was beyond stupid! I can’t wait for this tea.”


Well, thank you very much Walter [chuckling]. I am pleased you were entertained.


Blue for 40 14 gave another five pounds. Thank you very much. And he said:


“Thoughts on Styx and Richard Spencer debate recently? Do you advocate voting Trump for accelerationist reasons?”


Well there’s two reasons you should vote Trump. Either, because you want accelerationism which will happen under Trump. Or, because you want a man that isn’t going to take away the first and second amendment rights of Americans. Either way there is no good reason to vote for Biden.


I think Styx was better in that debate. I think his logic was better. And I think in line with many people in this community that Trump is certainly not our savior. He certainly has far too much interest in what happens in a certain Middle Eastern nation. But as it stands he has done a lot for nationalism. He has done a lot to mainstream talk about demographics and immigration. And he also isn’t as anti-American as Biden and Harris will be.


And also if you do want to see the Left go berserk and burn down half of America, Trump winning a second term would see that happening! Do you want to add anything to that Laura? Did you watch the debate?





Laura: I didn’t actually watch it. Yeah I’ve streamed with Richard Spencer before and him and I get on. But I didn’t see the debate unfortunately.


Mark: Thank you.


For Camaraderie gave five US dollars. Thank you very much. He said:


“Good evening Mark and Laura. Operation protective edge red pilled me in 2014, and I have never looked back. Thank you for fighting for us brother.”


Thank you very much.


Jonathan Hannah gave 20 pounds. Thank you very much. He said:


“Hi Mark and Laura. I’m here in Northern Ireland. Just to let, you know, you have much support here. Thanks to you and the whole team. If there’s ever a branch here I’m in.”


Well, thank you Jonathan. And we do want to set up a regional organizer in Northern Ireland. It’d be amazing to have something happening over there. We do support those in Ulster who support us. And we want to get out and meet you as soon as possible and get things moving.


And Fascist Cat gave three pounds. He said:


“Genuine question, why are so many civnat organizations filled with low IQ, middle-aged, overweight people? Where are the young people in these movements?”


The young people in the movement are all in PA [chuckling]! That’s the simple answer to that. Yes I think we know why. I think the civnat thing is, its just all around cringe. Do you have anything to add to that Laura? Do you want to put the boot in further?


Laura: No I think we’ve been quite bitchy tonight, actually. So let’s just leave the civilization at thing too [chuckling]


Mark: It’s like stop [chuckling] kicking them they’re on the floor already.


Right let’s answer some more of these unpaid questions, and then let’s wrap this up before it gets to 8:30, and everyone’s thoroughly had enough of the sound of our voices!


Winston Churchill asked:


“Has Laura lodged a complaint with the financial ombudsman service?”


Laura: I did actually phone them. And I think they told me to speak to some government department, or something sand they were like:


“We can’t help you. You need to speak to, …”


I can’t remember what it’s called. It’s like a government department that you go to for advice about certain things. But basically no one would help me. So my bank said that they weren’t interested in my complaint. And then when I went to complain to the government department they said they weren’t interested. So that’s why I said they can do this to anyone, and they’re allowed to do it, because it comes from the government. So just make sure you’ve got your own back covered in case it happens to you.


Mark: That’s very good answer.


Natcom said:


“Is there any news on formal membership of PA?”


We will open up membership. We will have membership cards, numbers, all the rest and privileges for members however we’re at a point at the moment where we have to walk before we can run.


Now being part of a membership organization in the past I understand how labor-intensive it is to service actual membership. And when I say “service membership”, we don’t want to be a membership organization that sells people a membership card and doesn’t offer them anything. If you do that, people join, they leave after 12 months. You never hear from them again.


We want to do membership, but we want to get it right. And when we’re ready and when we’re sure we’re going to get it right we will do it. Trust us! With PA we have possibly taken a little bit more time than we should with certain things.


But when we do things, we get it, right? Like Indigenous People’s Day. That wasn’t rushed. It turned out perfectly. Like the tea, it’s gonna be fantastic! There’s so many things we’ve done and we’ve done them right. Like the Dover stunt. We didn’t just rush down there with a 10 meter long banner and five of us stand there on the White cliffs never to be seen.


The things that we do we plan them meticulously, because we want to get them right. Not for us. But for the organization and for you people. It will happen, but just when the time is right.


VM said:


“If slash when PA get approved as a party, do you have a political roadmap planned, or in discussion?”


We have lots of things planned. And when the time is right we will let you know, those plans.


300 Spartans says:


“Please name our man in Scotland! He deserves to be recognized for stepping up to the plate, and he’s a great guy as Laura said.”


Can we name him? Does he want to be named?


Laura: I mean, if he’s the organizer he’s gonna, ..


Mark: Yeah! Cyborg. It’s Cyborg! Many of you will have seen his streams. He’s an excellent content producer. He’s a fabulous guy. He works tirelessly. And he’s a real community man. He’s a great guy! Thank you my friend! Look forward to working with you.


VM said:


“Any news on the next conference?”


We can’t say anything about that yet. Covid legislation and all that.


Rob Dee said:


“Any developments on the Welsh regional group?”


Again, we were hoping to set up South Western Wales over one long weekend where me and Laura were going to host two meetings, back to back. One on the Saturday, one on the Sunday. One in the South West and one in Wales. Unfortunately, again Covid legislation, the whole of Wales is in a big lockdown. But we cannot go down there and have a meeting with 30, or 40 of us, which is what it would be. But rest assured we want to have somebody in Wales. We’ve got loads of good people in Wales. It’s just a matter of formalizing it.





Arab Social Nationalists said:


“PA’s message is crucial. But in my view the migration crisis cannot be addressed seriously without an honest discussion about (((UK))) foreign policy — UK in triple parentheses — and how it creates migrants a what say you?”


Well, Arab Social Nationalist, it is good that you raise that point, because if you go back to my BitChute account — which I advertised earlier — there is an excellent video on there that added years ago about how conflicts for a certain Middle Eastern country create streams of migrants into the West and that our foreign policy needs to change. It’s about a 20-something minute video. Please go and watch it. It lays out very good points on that. We are with you on that. The same guy asked:


“The naysayers are scared of you. I know that by the verbal gymnastics employed by the press in order not to name you. Take the compliment guys thank you very much.


Cruella said:


“I sent an email to the London email but I’ve not heard anything back. Could you ask the London organizer to get back to us?”


I will Cruella. And sorry that he hasn’t got back to you. He must be very busy.


Muktuk said:


“Is there someone who has oversight of the EC [Electoral Commission] you can contact about the delays? This is clear political bias.”


We have contacted them they fobbed us off!


VM said:


“Would it be worth taking the bank problem to court?”


I think that’d be very expensive. And in my experience these court actions just run up expenses! And the last thing we want to do is start begging people for money to go after a court case that we probably wouldn’t win. We would rather not send out begging letters. And if we need money we would rather spend it on something for the good of our community, that would actually do something for everyone.


Alex May said:


“I can’t seem to pay through Entropy. Keeps coming up with developer error.”


Sorry Alex. Please keep trying. I’m not sure that is, but I’ll report that problem.


And Alexander said:


“Are there any particular home-schooling topics you need contributors for?”


Well, write to Laura at hello we where never ask dot company dot UK, and she’ll get back to you.


Disappear Forever gave another 10 US dollars. Thank you very much. He said:


“I want people to be attractive, safe, and have friends and family. Those base standards help foster that in my opinion. You don’t need to be perfect, but so many groups get screwed by allowing people who fail those requirements.”


Well, look, if you come to a PA event there is a strict code of conduct to avoid bad eggs, misfits, social oddities, weirdos, attending! We have strict rules on the way you have to behave at these events, to make our events places that foster the right kind of atmosphere and attract the right people.


Now Laura, somebody asked you earlier about women in the movement. Well PA meetings tend to have 30 percent women, which is higher than most nationalist meetings. We do have a code of standards at our meetings. Do you think that’s something that helps women to attend our events?


Laura: Yeah, definitely! And I think also just talking about the events as well, like we have done on this stream. We’ve had Yorkshire events where women have turned up by themselves. And sometimes they turn up with their husbands, or their boyfriends as well. But sometimes they just turn up by themselves and, you know, sometimes they’re really shy and quite timid. But sometimes they’re a bit more confident.


But yeah, I think, because we’ve always been very welcoming. And we’ve always tried to put ourselves as a family orientated movement, rather than just a male orientated movement, we attract men, we attract women, and we attract younger people as well. We even get people bringing the kids, don’t we Mark, to events?


Mark: We attract everyone! And when people come to our events they are generally quite surprised, not just by the quality of people, but by the cross-section of society that ends up at our events. There are people there, … You can turn up on our events, … What’s the youngest? Was it nine? Did we did we break that?


Laura: Six now. Yeah.


Mark: Yeah. The youngest attendee at one of our events is six. And the oldest was a gentleman in his 90s! Who was a war veteran from the Second World War and came in his medals. We have a, this massive cross-section of different people. And the way our events are structured, it keeps the cranks out! And I have actually sent out our code of conduct which says:


“You can’t advocate for this. You can’t use this kind of language. We don’t tolerate excessive swearing. We don’t tolerate vulgarities at our events. You do need to abide by this dress code.”


And I’ve had people write back to me saying:


“I no longer want to come. Give my ticket to somebody else. I’m not coming! I’m not coming. I’m not sticking by that code of conduct!”


Great! Brilliant! If you feel you can’t come to an event and sit there for a day and be polite and reasonable with everyone else in the room, do not come! That is why we have the code of conduct. And if that code of conduct is enough to scare you away, it is doing it’s job!


So we do have standards on who can attend, and the way they behave but we’re never going to set standards like, you must be able to do 50 push-ups before you attend a PA event! That would be intrusive and self-defeating.





We are a movement of redemption, of self-improvement. But we are also a movement that demands behavioral standards and a dress code at our events. And I think those things, even from our first meetings in Leeds, where we started meeting for lunches in nice wine bars and restaurants, it always attracted the best quality people. And that’s what we intend to do.


You know, we have to stop “that guy” from showing up. And yes, if it was a 50 push-up minimum to get in, I would definitely get in! [laughting] People in the chat there are now satisfied with that answer, and that was a free one.


The Pepper Peter, the Pepper Peter Pippa, the Pepper, … This is awful! This guy’s got the worst name ever! This has got to be a troll! I do appreciate the superchat and I’m going to have one last go at it. The Pepper Peter Piper Pickled. Thank you for having the hardest name to read of the night! He gave 14 pounds. Thank you very much! Gonna do that again, see if I can get it a second time. The Pepper Peter Piper Pickled. Thank you very much. He said:


“Keep up the great work team! I can’t wait for the meetups. I’d recommend anyone looking into getting into shape to take up boxing and, or BJJ.”


I suggest anybody who wants to get fit, boxing is absolutely fantastic! It not only teaches you how to look after yourself, but there are two — I’ve been fit most of my life — there are two different sports that have completely broken me with the amount of effort you have to put in to compete. One of them is boxing. The other is mountain biking. When I say mountain biking, I don’t mean trails, I mean, proper mountain biking. Red Root, like the Dalby Forest Red Route. Those things are absolutely, they’ll absolutely take it out of! You really have to have some energy to do them. And I definitely recommend that.



Do you have any, … You’re in the middle of getting fit Laura, so what’s your secret to your newfound love for fitness?


Laura: Yeah, well I’ve, … So last year my BMI was overweight. And now my BMI is healthy. And I’m still not at the end of where I want to be. I’m a work in progress. But I am a lot closer to my target than I once was.


And so I’ve been eating keto food. And then exercise, I have been going on one really long hike every single week. And then otherwise I do, … So it’s kind of weird at the moment, because I’m not allowed in the gym.


But before when I was allowed in the gym I was trying to do a little bit of cardio and a little bit of weights. But now I’m not allowed in the gym, it’s still closed. It’s basically just a lot of walking and just trying to be more active. So, rather than, I don’t know, getting the bus somewhere just walking somewhere, or like if I’m at my grandma’s and she’s gonna send my sister down to the shop I’ll go instead and burn like 100, 200 calories doing that kind of thing.


But I’m not an expert at all. So I can’t advise anyone on healthy eating, or exercising, but I’m starting to learn what works for me. And it is nice to see yourself make positive progress.


And actually my wedding dress when I bought it. It was actually a little bit too tight on me, and it didn’t zip up at the back! And I actually tried it on two days ago and it fit me perfectly [chuckling]! So just little things like that it’s like really nice seeing improvements. But my fiance exercises a lot. And he does boxing. And he also does a lot of like pull-ups, and press-ups, and things like that, so yeah.


Mark: Well, thank you and we have one last superchat. The Pepper Peter Piper Pickled gave another three pounds [laughter] and said:


“Here’s another three pounds to say sorry for the name!”


Well, thank you The Pepper Peter Piper Pickled! You didn’t need to give another three pounds! If you turn up an event I will happily happily buy you a drink! It is I think it made me chuckle and I think it made everyone else chuckle. People talking about mountain biking saying:


“Is it safe?”


I’ve not really had, I’ve never really had an injury mountain biking. I really enjoy it. And somebody said:


“Downhill mountain biking is best!”


It is, surprisingly. It’s easier going downhill. It’s that uphill bit that gets you fit though, you know, you have to take the ups with the downs but it is something that I recommend people give a try too.





Well, thank you so much to everyone who superchatted tonight, who asked questions. I think we’ve had a good stream. It’s closing in on 90 minutes. We’ve asked all the questions that have been voted up. One last question from somebody called Calder. He said:


“How can someone in high school sixth form make effective change in such a liberal school system, plagued with LGBTQ and BLM propaganda?”


Okay. Very quickly. If you’re in high school, or at sixth form, or university, do not go into campus and start shouting your mouth off about nationalism and your beliefs! Keep your head down. Get your degree. Get your qualifications. There are plenty of things you can do in safer places. Do not ruin your education to try and turn a load of pink-haired, insane, feminists, who are never going to join us! Internationalists, you can’t! Keep your head down and set yourself up for life. Don’t mess up your education. Is there anything you’d add to that Laura?


Laura: Yeah, you just have to grin and bear it sometimes. Don’t ruin your education, or don’t get yourself fired just, because you can’t bite your tongue. Sometimes if we’re working under their watch we have to just keep quiet and get on with it.


I mean, I would advise if you do want to go public with nationalism to get yourself into a position where you’re maybe self-employed, or where you work for a company where you’re allowed to have these views. Come and work for Grandma Towler’s Tea business! You can practice for me and I won’t fire you for being a nationalist.


But yeah, on a serious note, just don’t risk your education by saying something stupid. I went to university and I just stayed quiet for three years. And then I started talking about things afterwards.


Mark: Thank you. We’ve got two more superchats. St Harrison gave three US dollars. Thank you very much my friend. He’s a great guy. I met him multiple times. He said:


“Keep up the good work! Just here to plug my channel. Go subscribe to St Harrison.”


And Netlux TV said:


“Hey Mark just want to let, you know, that the PA website is incorrectly set up. The SSL certificate is broken, and gives an error.”


Well, we will look into that. And I will speak to the web team about that as soon as this show finishes. He also gave his email address if he needs help. Well, thank you for the kind offer of help. I’ve not noticed that any of my browsers. But I will check it out.


But I think it’s been a real high energy stream. It’s picked up. We’ve had a lot of people watching, nearly 2,000 watching over two platforms. The replay will be on BitChute. Laura anything to add before we finish up and before I look forward to the bell finally tolling, and me being 40! Which is only just a few hours away now! [laughter]


Laura: Well you actually came on my birthday stream and told everybody that I was 40! So I feel like I need to get you back somehow for doing that. [laughter] But yeah, I hope you have a lovely birthday. And obviously I’ll be able to talk to you when the day comes. But I really enjoyed the stream. And I feel really optimistic and positive about being part of the Patriotic Alternative community. And I hope everyone who’s listened feels really positive and optimistic as well. And I hope that we’re doing you proud.


But, you know, if you ever do have any constructive feedback, or anything that you want to say really, Mark and I are completely accessible. And we respond to our emails every single day, so just get in touch. And if you haven’t yet registered, register on the Patriotic Alternative website. And then you will get emails about all of our events and you can join your regional group as well.


Mark: Thank you very much. Well, I’ve just got to say a huge thank you, first and foremost to Laura., she’s been through so much, she does so much! She is, I would say, PA’s greatest asset!


We’ve got another superchat from Jacketerio, who gave three US dollars and says:


“Thank you for another great stream.”


Well. Thank you for the superchat my friend. Laura is fantastic! She’s been fantastic tonight. And I absolutely adore working with her! We have a real winning team here at PA. Not least, because of her fantastic effort with our website. Which is smashing all the records at the moment.


But thank you so much also to everybody who has donated so generously tonight. It really does mean a lot it! It will go to a good cause. And thank you, as always, the biggest thank you is to everybody in the chat! Everyone who is part of this community. Everyone who comes out here to support us. The people who made the atmosphere so great.


It’s nice to be back on YouTube! It’s great to have so many people watching especially after breaking all those records last night with nearly three and a half thousand people watching on DLive! Which made us the most watched stream on the platform last night!


Things are going from good to even better! And I am so proud to be a part of this. But I do have one slight confession. I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again, I do suffer from a certain form of privilege. And that is the privilege of being able to serve this amazing community! It is an honor and a privilege to be able to do this! We are really going in the right direction guys!


I hope you all have a great weekend. I hope I manage to have a weekend where I don’t get too sad about hitting the big 40, and realizing it’s all downhill for me now! But I’m sure my wonderful little girl and my family will manage to cheer me up through those dark hours! [laughter].


And on that bombshell, have a great weekend. Stay safe! And I will speak to you all again soon. We’ll be back on Wednesday night on Dlive for PWR with Styxhexenhammer. Thank you so much see you all soon and stay safe.










See Also


White Lives Matter” Banner Day — Sun, Aug 9, 2020



Dionne Moller – My Patriotic Alternative Conference Speech — Spring 2020 — Transcript



Laura Towler – We Were Never Asked – Oct 24, 2019 — Transcript

Laura Towler – The Fate of English Schools – Jul 26, 2020 — Transcript

Rikki Doolan vs Laura Towler – British Lives Matter Live Debate – Aug 6, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – Pathological Altruism and the Invasion of Britain – Aug 16, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – Are We The Bad Guys? Featuring Mark Collett, The Ayatollah and Horus – Aug 24, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – Khan’s Plans to Diversify London – Sep 20, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – A Personal Update – Sep 27, 2020 — Transcript

Mark Collett – Patriotic Alternative Autumn Update with Laura – Oct 2, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – When the Mask Slips – Feb 17, 2021 — Transcript










PDF Notes

* Total words = 17,070

* Total images = 15

* Total A4 pages = xx

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Version History


Version 8: Mar 2, 2021 – Added See Also image and 9 links.


Version 7: Oct 9, 2020 — Added last 10 minutes of transcript. Added 1 image. Transcript now complete.


Version 6: Oct 8, 2020 — Added 10 more minutes of transcript. Total transcript so far = 80/90 mins.


Version 5: Oct 7, 2020 — Added 10 more minutes of transcript. Total transcript so far = 70/90 mins.


Version 4: Oct 6, 2020 — Added 2 more images. Added 10 more minutes of transcript. Total transcript so far = 60/90 mins.


Version 3: Oct 5, 2020 — Added 19 more minutes of transcript. Added 2 more images. Total transcript so far = 49/90 mins.


Version 2: Oct 4, 2020 — Added 6 more minutes of transcript. Added more images. Total transcript so far = 30/90 mins.


Version 1: Oct 4, 2020 — Published post. Total transcript so far = 24/90 mins.


This entry was posted in Britain, Britain First Party, Laura Towler, Mark Collett, Nationalism, Patriotic Alternative, Patriotic Weekly Review, Rikki Doolan, Third World Immigration, Third World Invasion, Traitors - Journalists, Traitors - Politicians, Transcript, Uncategorized, We Were Never Asked, Western Civilization, White genocide, White Nationalism. Bookmark the permalink.

One Response to Mark Collett – Patriotic Alternative Autumn Update with Laura – Oct 2, 2020 — Transcript

  1. Pingback: UnityNewsNetwork – David Clews is Joined by Mark Collett & Laura Towler of Patriotic Alternative – Mar 26, 2022 – Transcript | katana17

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