Ernst Zundel: Ernst Christoph Friedrich Zundel being interviewed by John Reynolds, former Member of Parliament of Canada, on CJOR radio in Vancouver, August, 78.

Radio Host: Oh, hello, it’s John Reynolds, CJOR. Yes, standby please.

Hello?

Ernst Zundel: Hello.

Radio Host: Yes, we’ll be going on in about one minute. What is samizdat?

Ernst Zundel: Samizdat is a Russian word and it means to be self published in the underground.

Radio Host: Okay, I’ll ask you that.

Ernst Zundel: Thank you.

Radio Host: Do you also call yourself. Is that the only name you use? Or you call yourself the Nazi Party of Canada or anything?

Ernst Zundel: No, no, no, no! We are strictly only publishing books.

Radio Host: Okay. You don’t have any organization, political movement at all?

Ernst Zundel: No.

Radio Host: Okay.

Ernst Zundel: However, I’m German and I was responsible for leading the demonstrations against the movie Holocaust.

Radio Host: Okay.

Ernst Zundel: It is not that we are political, Mr. Reynolds.

Radio Host: Okay, hang on a second. I’ll do an introduction, then we come back about a minute after this. You’ll hear it on this tape. Beep.

02 Some Commentary by Zundel on the Nature of Commercial Radio and Its Effects on Listeners

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Ernst Zundel: At this stage, it is important for our European listeners to understand that in North America, radio stations, most radio stations are privately owned and that they live off radio commercial advertisements. So every once in a while the announcer will be interjecting and stopping for exactly such commercials. And it is during those commercials that I might come in with some explanations of what was being said, the importance of it and so on. And it might be interesting just to leave a few words of those commercials in there for our European listeners so that they can get an idea of the mentality and what shapes the mentality of the North American and what the North American psyche is constantly being subjected to and why Americans and Canadians maybe think the way that they think.

Radio Host: Hi.

Ernst Zundel: Hello.

Radio Host: If suddenly you don’t hear the feed on the line, hang up, we’ll call you right back. Okay? Just in case something happens.

Ernst Zundel: Okay. If I do not hear the feedback, then I’ll hang up.

Radio Host: Yeah, if you don’t when you’re on hold, if you don’t hear the show right, then hang up right away and we’ll call you back.

Ernst Zundel: Thank you very much.

03 Zundel’s Pamphlet Promoting Books and Tapes About UFOs, the Third Reich

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Radio Host: Okay. The present airport temperature 14 degrees. At 8:31 it’s 18 degrees at CJR in the Grosvenor Hot Morning Report. I’m Maury Heskit. Have a good day!

Next to Reynolds Reports.

Good morning. The other day I received a pamphlet in the mail called What’s New at Samizat? It’s got pictures of Nazi swastikas on it. It’s got UFOs that asks questions about UFOs, are they real? It talks about were Hitler and Eva Braun on board, they may be still alive? It tells you can get tapes that you can listen to on the way to work in the morning. Battle songs and marches of the Third Reich. Very strange pamphlet. The gentleman who is an author of a book called UFO and Nazis A Secret Weapon, Christoph Friedrich is with us this morning. He’s on the phone line from Toronto. We’re going to talk to him about this pamphlet and some of the other books he publishes right after these messages.

Ernst Zundel: Again, please pay attention to what Mr. Reynolds has been saying.

The one thing that immediately grabbed his attention were the Nazi swastikas, as he calls them, and also some of the things that we are advertising in conjunction with UFOs. Therein lies the secret. He would never have called me if our advertisement had looked any different. Had it been a straightforward UFO advertisement, I doubt whether he would have called. But it was the combination of swastika and UFOs that got him to call us and we continue to listen to him now.

04 The Toronto Sun Calls Zundel a Fanatic, a Neo-Nazi

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Radio Host: Okay, what is Samizdat all about? The Toronto Sun calls you a fanatic, a neo-Nazi.

Ernst Zundel: Well, one of the writers of the Toronto Sun does, yes, in a kind of a slanderous article that is kind of slippery that you can hardly sue him, or you would spend about $12,000 to sue him.

However, as to your question, what samizdat is or what samizdat means. Samistat is a Russian word and it simply means that all the material by samizdat is self produced, self written and published in the underground.

In other words, Sharansky, Solzhenitsyn, they are Russian samizdat authors. And I found to my complete surprise, in Canada, in the United States, in Western Europe, in the Western world, we have our Sharanski and our Solzhenitsyns. And I happen to believe that I am a Canadian Solzhenitsyn!

Radio Host: You really believe that?

06 Demand for Zundel’s Publications, Including the Book, the Secret Nazi Polar Expeditions

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Ernst Zundel: I certainly do and I can prove it to you. We have suppression of new software, all kinds of intellectual thoughts in this country. We have censorship, not by a government censor, but by self-chosen and self imposed censorship in newspapers due to pressures from advertisers, certain business groups, ethnic groups, labor groups and so on. And I have been in the media field and lecturing, writing for the last, 20 years in my life in Canada. And I can assure you that we have a very definite system of censorship in this country.

Radio Host: Okay, you were born in Germany.

Ernst Zundel: I was born in Germany, lived half my life over there, and now I have lived exactly half my life over here. I came here when I was 19.

[06:27]

Radio Host:

“And restricted by government agencies to a small group of special authorized listeners. Samizdat that now makes these vital moments of history available to you.”

Are you back there?

Ernst Zundel: Yes.

Radio Host: Okay. How did you get all these documents that you tell us that our allied governments are not allowing the rest of the people to hear? How did you get them? Why are you being allowed to publish them and nobody else?

Ernst Zundel: Well, it’s not a matter of being allowed. So far I have had several visits by threatening people that I should stop this stuff. I’ve been kicked out of magazines because I advertise our books. But why am I allowed? Because I go back to the original German sources. I have made a fairly good amount of money in Canada and I’m independently well off. I have traveled the world and I have searched out the Germans who were involved in World War II on these projects. I’ve got original blueprints.

Radio Host: But doesn’t that prove that your case? You’re saying there’s censorship and this stuff is not being allowed to be shown. Isn’t it really a case of who really cares? Who wants to hear this stuff?

06 Demand for Zundel’s Publications, Including the Book, the Secret Nazi Polar Expeditions

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Ernst Zundel: Well, the 12,000 people, after they were able, through some circuitous means, in fact out through my advertising efforts, underground advertising efforts, hand bills and so on, they were very much in favor of reading it. And I have got several hundred letters by people totally unsolicited who said they just love to read this stuff. They’re waiting for my next books. I put out a second book called The Secret Nazi Polar Expeditions that has sold already in the second edition. And there’s the German translation out of it. That’s selling briskly. The first book is the German edition that’s selling briskly. There’s a Spanish edition in the works and an Italian edition and the French edition.

08 The Holocaust Movie and Anti-German Programs Are Hate Propaganda

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Radio Host: Surely there’s probably always some people that might want to buy some radical material on one end of the spectrum or the other. But aren’t you really creating, it really looks to me here like you’re creating a whole company based on a hatred. A hatred of jews!

Ernst Zundel: A hatred of what? Where do I hate jews? The jews don’t figure. You see, Mr. Reynolds, that’s the problem with you Anglos. You know, you accuse the Germans of having a hangup over the jews. In our thinking, …

Radio Host: I don’t accuse the Germans of having a hangup with jews. I accused you of it.

Ernst Zundel: Okay, basing on what? Is there one word about jews in my pamphlet?

Radio Host: No, he’s very careful that there aren’t any.

Ernst Zundel: Well, that’s the point. Because you people, maybe when you were MP up in Ottawa had to stifle freedom of expression through a Bill called Hate Bill.

Radio Host: Oh, I never stifled anybody. Why did you pick at the movie, Holocaust?

08 The Holocaust Movie and Anti-German Programs Are Hate Propaganda

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Ernst Zundel: Because it’s nothing but lies! Zionist propaganda for profit. It’s that hate propaganda!

If you want to see hate propaganda piped into people’s homes, that was hate propaganda on a massive scale! And Mr. Reynolds, I am very sad to say that not one single nice noble Canadian came to our defense. No official government body. That after all, we Germans do enjoy, I think, some citizenship privileges which is equality in front of the law. We don’t get it! Every single night you can get anti-German programs on television or radio. What is this?

Radio Host: Well, certainly you would be allowed to your own movies if you wanted to and put that on.

Ernst Zundel: But then I’m saying to you, then the censorship comes in that we can’t advertise them, that movie houses won’t carry it. That’s the freedom. That’s what I mean to you. In the Soviet Union we have got the KGB putting Sharansky into jail. In Canada, what do we have? We have the self imposed censorship of certain ethnic groups who wield a tremendous amount of power here!

Radio Host: Are you saying that most of the things that were in the movie Holocaust didn’t happen?

Ernst Zundel: They were lies, outright lies! And that’s why they didn’t make it a documentary, but they called it a “docudrama” therein lies legalistic tricks!

Radio Host: What parts of it were lies? Are you trying to tell me that there were not a bunch of, millions of jews killed?

Ernst Zundel: No 6 million jews! That’s the basic point. Were ever murdered in Germany just for being jews.

Radio Host: Say that again.

09 No Six Million Jews – the Red Cross Report

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Ernst Zundel: No 6 million jews were ever murdered in Germany!

Radio Host: How many?

Ernst Zundel: Murdered? Very few. Died? Maybe 350,000 maximum. I have in front of me the Red Cross Report put out by the International Red Cross in Geneva in 1947. Now you can write to the Red Cross in Geneva and get that same report. It’s an official report of the Red Cross, into the concentration camps of World War II on the German side. There is not one single gas chamber that they found.

Radio Host: What about Poland, some of the other countries?

Ernst Zundel: Well, are you asking about Auschwitz, for instance? Because Auschwitz was in Poland.

Radio Host: Yeah.

Ernst Zundel: The United States, Air Force overflew the concentration camp of Auschwitz dozens of time. Now we know that today from released Air Force documents. They never found one single thing resembling a gas chamber. The United States, Air Force never bombed any gas chambers. You know, World War II aerial photography was so good that the British were able to take out the German V1 bases before they were even built and operational.

Now, if they found gas chambers and the American jewish community was always very strong in favor with President Roosevelt, they could have wiped out those gas chambers. Nothing flat! But they didn’t do it because they were not there. It is Zionist propaganda to blackmail the German people and to cow the rest of the world into their voracious demands!

Germany is not the way it is portrayed in the world. I am German. I was raised in Germany. I didn’t see one single proper German in that [word unclear] Holocaust!

[11:45]

10 There Were No Gas Chambers Anywhere in Germany!

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Radio Host: Are you trying to tell us that there were no gas chambers?

Ernst Zundel: There were no gas chambers anywhere in Germany!

Radio Host: What about anywhere where the German people, where the Nazis controlled the power?

Ernst Zundel: No such thing! When you, if you know the gas chambers, what they were delousing things, but they were certainly not used to gas people.

Radio Host: [words unclear]

Ernst Zundel: No, they were not. There’s a large body of evidence, suppressed again and censored in the usual Canadian and North American way, that states very clearly that there were no gas chmbers. We have a Professor of Northwestern University, Professor Butz has just written a 600 page study in which he comes to the very same conclusion. They have trials in Israel in which Adolf Eichmann was tried. The entire testimony of Adolf Eichmann, not one single time mentions a specific number of jews killed. Mr. Reynolds, we have had stories out of Europe of 11 million jews killed! Nine million jews killed! Six million jews killed!

The Red Cross says they never saw any gas chambers. The Germans statistically have a Red Cross report that talks about all the people died in World War II on all sides. And for the German nation there is 9 million people, including its 358,000 jews who died in German concentration camps.

Radio Host: Gotta go for a break. 685-9181’s our number. 685-9181. If you’d like to speak to Christoph Friedrich from Toronto, the head of Samizdat, give us a call, 685-9181. We’ll be right back with him after these messages. Hang on. I won’t put you on hold this time. I don’t know what happened last night.

Ernst Zundel: Well, I thought we were through.

Radio Host: Oh, did you? You hung up?

Ernst Zundel: Yes, I did. I’m sorry, I had no idea what the format of the show was going to be.

Radio Host: Oh, no, thank you. Hang on, we’ll get back and we’ll take a couple of calls. I’ll put you on hold here.

Ernst Zundel: Okay, thank you.

11 Zundel’s Commentary on the Conversation So Far

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Ernst Zundel: We’re hardly into the program and what do we see? This man, a former Member of Parliament, Federal Parliament, obviously not a stupid man and certainly above average in intelligence. Otherwise he wouldn’t do the kind of work that he is doing. This Canadian called 5,000 km across the continent to a guy called Ernst Zundel to talk to him about flying saucers. Fascinated, attracted like a moth to the light by this combination of swastika, flying saucers, Third Reich, speeches of the Third Reich leaders which we advertise in our pamphlet. He only was cursorily interested in the flying saucer issue. Once in a while he comes back to it, touches upon it.

But basically what irks and bothers this man is all the stuff that I’m bringing out on this topic. Let’s return to him and listen to what he has to say.

Radio Host: Okay, John Reynolds back with Christoph Friedrich from Toronto. Are you still there?

Ernst Zundel: Yes, I am.

Radio Host: Okay, we’ve got some callers that want to speak to you. We’ll get to them in just a second. I just want to warn everybody because I’m sure, Mr. Friedrich, there’s going to be some people who want to yell and scream at you, but we won’t put up with that if you want to talk sensibly, talk to Mr. Friedrich. If you agree or disagree with, and I hope nobody will yell at either side of us, have to cut you off because nobody can understand people yelling, go ahead.

12 Female Caller Tells Zundel to “Lay Down and Die!”

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Caller 1 (female): I couldn’t hear what he’s been saying recently. However, I have a statement here and I’d like to continue with it. It’ll take about 10 minutes.

Radio Host: You have to be quick because we’re going for the news. Go ahead.

Caller 1 (female): How dare do the [words unclear] come in now and [words unclear] this very many times? Do they think we’ve forgotten the horrors committed against the European continent and their plans to conquer the world?

Ernst Zundel: Oh dear!

Caller 1 (female): Who was the top spy in the USA, Reinhard Heindrich [sp], working with the American First Ambassador Hotel in New York with ITT, General Motors, Ford Company, Texas Oil, Standard Oil and defied the Neutrality Act by shipping supplies to South America and on to Germany. The then President Roosevelt, drafting his [word unclear], fearing impeachment, dared not make public firsthand information from William Stevenson, a Winnipeg born Canadian who headed the Secret Service in Britain. He’s the man called Intrepid. Germany was close to producing the A bomb and thousands of men and women sacrificed their lives to gather information that later helped to change all. If it had not been for Churchill, Roosevelt and Hitler, plus the Russian invasion, you might have won, but you didn’t! Lay down and die!

Ernst Zundel: [chuckling] Talking about hate. Was that love, Mr. Reynolds?

Radio Host: Well, you see, that’s what I was trying to tell you. I think what you do sometimes generates that kind of hate when you try to bring back some of the things the Nazis did during the Second World War.

Ernst Zundel: Mr. Reynolds, I want to tell you something that’s entirely the typical Canadian and North American attitude. You people think that you have a monopoly of what is truth and what is history. What you in effect have is your own World War II propaganda parading as history!

Now, when we Germans stand up and ever so mildly and meekly ask for equal time, never get number one, equal time. I have to send out a flamboyant pamphlet and I have to demonstrate, to denigrate myself, to demonstrate in front of newspaper offices, human rights commissions and so on, because we are not even getting equal rights and equal treatment in front of the law.

[17:48]

Radio Host: Well, it will be interesting to see if any of our German friends in Vancouver fall out because I’ve talked to a number of them who don’t feel exactly the way you do. Go ahead.

Caller 2 (female): Oh, good morning. This is the first time I’ve done this. I’m a little nervous, but I am so angry because listening to that voice in the radio, it brings it all back. And this is a tragedy of the German people. This man is talking in arrogance. He is talking from a prideful position, saying that we should tolerate him, that we should put up with him when he’s caused millions of people to [word unclear]. This whole thing is going to continue. The German people, unfortunately, are going to have to suffer for several generations, as long as my generation is alive. Who can remember being bombed in the UK you can remember the first pictures of the concentration camps being opened when there were children. You can remember everything about the war.

13 Camps for Japanese, Germans and Italians in Canada, America and Britain

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Ernst Zundel: Okay, may I come in here, please? For equal time.

First of all, the United States, England and Canada bombed the living daylights out of Germany, killing 3 million Germans! 30,000 Englishmen were hurt, didn’t die, but were hurt in World War II bombing of England. So the score is certainly far out of proportion. That’s number one.

Number two, you had concentration camps in Canada in which you put innocent Japanese, robbed them of their property. And you also put Germans in concentration camps and Italians in concentration camps. You had the same in the United States.

Now we were in Germany. We are a dictatorship. You were a Democratic country. What did you, madam, do in England when you were in England at that time about those imprisoned in English concentration camps under the 18B regulation.

Radio Host: Okay, listen, let’s go for the 9 o’ clock news. We’re right back with Christoph Friedrich after the 9 o’ clock news. CJOR. Thanks for your call.

Caller 2 (female): Thank you. I was just child at the time. I couldn’t do anything.

Ernst Zundel: Well, so was I. But now we can do something.

Caller 2 (female): No, we’re not.

Ernst Zundel: Yes, we can prevent the same thing from happening again by speaking the truth!

Radio Host: Okay, thanks. Listen, we’ll call you back in five minutes, okay?

Ernst Zundel: Okay, thank you.

Radio Host: Make sure you don’t use your line.

Ernst Zundel: No. Okay, I can’t help incoming calls.

[break]

Ernst Zundel: Hello.

Radio Host: Yes, I got you. Okay, I’ll come back in about 30 seconds.

Ernst Zundel: It is interesting that during the next 30 seconds I could not monitor what he was saying. So I have absolutely no idea if he was going to give me some kind of a bad introduction or bad mouthing me or telling the listeners I was some kind of a nut case. That’s a very interesting point. Let’s return to the program.

[break]

14 Why Don’t You Use Your Real Name?

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Radio Host: Tom Reynolds back and on the phone lines Ronald Christoph Friedrich out of Samizda. Are you the president of Samizda?

Ernst Zundel: Yes, I own it lock stock and barrel.

Radio Host: You own it. It’s no shareholders. It’s one man. Listen, somebody phoned me yesterday and told me that your real name is Ernst Zundel, that Christoph Friedrich are your two middle names.

Ernst Zundel: That’s right.

Radio Host: Why do you use those as your name for publishing?

Ernst Zundel: Well, because I run a fairly successful two other businesses. And when I started out, this Samizda thing, it was not flying saucer strictly. And you have to admit it’s a somewhat [word unclear] subject and people are leery of dealing with nuts. So I thought I might get myself a little protection. It’s nothing illegal. Everybody in the arts and in writing has nom de plumes, you know. It’s a perfectly natural and normal occurrence.

Radio Host: Let me ask you another question before we go back to the callers. You talk about censorship in Canada and the United States. Would you be allowed to do what you’re doing with your talking about your UFOs about Hitler, about the Nazis, if you were living in Germany today?

15 West Germany and East Germany Are Dictatorships

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Ernst Zundel: No, because West Germany and East Germany are the most horrific dictatorships. They make Hitler pale into insignificance!

Radio Host: Why would you say West Germany is a dictatorship? They have elections. The German people elect all the people that go into their legislature.

Ernst Zundel: Because, number one, it’s a matter of having no choice. In West Germany, the Allies have riddled Germany with spy networks and we have a strictly political police and a political judiciary in Germany. The nation’s element which carries the German State for 13 years, is completely outlawed, has been killed, is rotting in jails.

Consequently, what we have in Germany are quislings. We have in West Germany, West German, pro-American, pro-British, pro-French, pro-Canadian quislings. And in East Germany we have pro-communist, pro-Russian quislings. Germany is occupied country! It is not independent. The people who have been speaking for Germany are executive organs of the occupying powers.

16 Do You Believe in the White Superiority?

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Radio Host: One final question before we go back to the calls. Do you believe in the White superiority?

Ernst Zundel: No. No.

Radio Host: You are not [word unclear] with leader of the Nazi party in the United States then?

Ernst Zundel: He’s a jew!

Radio Host: Yes, I know that.

[22:43]

Ernst Zundel: Okay, fine. Now if you have a jewish agent, he might be a jewish hero in Nazi uniform if he brings out lines like that that conform with the Hollywood image which Hollywood has created about National Socialism and about Germany, that’s one thing. Hitler in all of the 800 pages of Mein Kunk not once mentioned the word Aryan “superiority” or “master race” or stuff like that! This is strictly Anglo-jewish propaganda! It is not true.

Radio Host: Go ahead.

Caller 1 (female): Hi John. I was born after the war, so this is really all history thinking, but I don’t feel any angry towards this guest. But I am kind of fascinated with him. Fascinated in the sense that I think he’s really taking us for a really good ride. I think he’s really capitalizing on our ignorance, on all these things and all that. But it kind of frightens me too in the other sense because people are angry and not these kind of things get stirred up.

Radio Host: That’s a very good question though. Christoph Friedrich, are you just really capitalizing on the Holocaust and other things that are happening to make yourself some more money?

Ernst Zundel: Mr. Reynolds? I don’t need to make more money. What I’m telling you is that I am now 39 years old. I’ve got children born by a Canadian mother going through the Canadian school system that are being brainwashed with lies and nothing but lies which will disarm them in any future conflict that we are seeing coming up on the horizon! The western world is in a life and death struggle and doesn’t realize it, because it is looking constantly over its shoulder flailing a dead horse called Nazism while there are Marxists in the highest places in government, the military, the media in this lovely land! That is my point!

Caller 1 (female): But sir, you must think we’re really fools because all these things have been past for so many years.

17 Problems with Canada and Its Immigration Policy

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Ernst Zundel: You are asses because you allow non-subversives and certainly incapable people of running the affairs of this nation. Canada is a paradise, and it could be a paradise. And it was almost a paradise when I came to these shores. What we have now is our old people robbed of their pensions. We have got riots in jails, we have got kidnappings, we have got muggings. We have got murders on a scale that is unprecedented before. If you were such intelligent people and exercising your duties of citizenship properly, we could not get the kind of rotten leadership we are getting!

Ernst Zundel: Well, sir, I just don’t take you very seriously.

Ernst Zundel: Well, that’s okay. I don’t take you very seriously either.

Radio Host: Christoph Friedrich one of the reasons we’ve got these problems because of our immigration policy.

Ernst Zundel: Certainly, yes!

Radio Host: What should we do about our immigration policy?

Ernst Zundel: I was the only person in 1968 that appeared in front of the Parliamentary committee and the Senate committee on immigration and said:

“For God’s sake, do not change the immigration policy in this country or your children will curse you!”

Mr. Reynolds, what has happened is not the children are cursing the politicians of that 1968 Parliament. Their wives, their mothers, their grandmothers, their uncles and their hands are cursing them!

Radio Host: What should we do with our immigration policy in Canada?

Ernst Zundel: Don’t import problems!

Radio Host: Are you saying what types of people are the problem and what countries do they come from?

Ernst Zundel: Ask any police official. Who are being picked up for, numerically speaking, for dope peddling, pimping, distribution sniffing and stuff like that.

Radio Host: Are you talking about the blacks and the yellow people that are coming in?

Ernst Zundel: You know, that’s a loaded question.

Radio Host: I’m sure it is.

Ernst Zundel: Mr. Reynolds, I’m saying to you that we didn’t have it before, but certainly we now have it. Does that answer the question fairly?

Radio Host: More White immigration from England, Germany and the other such as that?

Ernst Zundel: Certainly.

Radio Host: Okay, go ahead.

Caller 4 (male): Mr. Frederick?

Ernst Zundel: Yeah?

18 Have You Ever Been to Auschwitz?

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Radio Host: Have you ever been to Auschwitz?

Ernst Zundel: Pardon me?

Radio Host: Have you ever visited Auschwitz concentration camp?

Ernst Zundel: No, but I’ve entered Dahau. I don’t need to go to have a piece of fictitious history paraded in front of my eyes.

Radio Host: I have visited Auschwitz and the place where it is said that the gas chambers were, which is right beside the incinerators.

Ernst Zundel: Yes.

Caller 4 (male): Is right in the middle of the camp. You say, if the British believed there were gas chambers, they would have bombed them.

Ernst Zundel: Yes.

Caller 4 (male): With all the tens of thousands of inmates in Auschwitz, it would have been another “Holocaust”. Tens of thousands of prisoners who would have died through the bombing.

19 Red Cross Report on German Concentration Camps

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Ernst Zundel: Okay, may I respond to that? I have in front of me the Red Cross Report, page 92. That’s an official document. No Germans participated in writing it. It is strictly based on the work done by the International Committee of the Red Cross, which by the way went to see every concentration camp in Germany and had even delegates living within some concentration camps. Now I put it to you, if the Germans had something to hide, they would certainly not allow number one to visit, number two, allow delegates to live there.

Now, the Russians don’t allow Red Cross delegates to go and visit their concentration camps, but the Germans did!

Now, on page 92 it says that the confidence man, the man of Kofiyas [sp], is the French reporter that I’m looking at was a British commando who was captured by the Germans and he was in Auschwitz. The Red Cross delegate asks him:

“What are these rumors about Sal Didush, meaning shower bars?”

And he said:

“They are nothing but rumors. We have been unable to verify that there were such things.”

Now, the concentration camp of was in September 44. Shortly thereafter, the concentration camp of Auschwitz was closed and the German razed it to the ground! Every single German concentration camp in the east that the Germans abandoned was razed to the ground! So any structure that you see there, built today was built after the war! So much for your historical accuracy.

[28:34]

20 Belsen and the Typhus Epidemic and the Germans Told to Protect the Camp Until the British Arrived

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Radio Host: And you say the same for Belsen?

Ernst Zundel: No, I can explain to you Belsen very easily.

Radio Host: That was raised to the ground also?

Ernst Zundel: No. That was not in the East. If you were to listen and hear what I’m saying, you could get someplace in the story. Belsen is in central Germany.

Now, the commander of Belsen was forced to take up, because of the situation of the war, 20,000 more prisoners than the camp was designed for. Now typhus broke out because Medicines and food couldn’t get to the camp because England and America destroyed the entire German railroad system in Operation Thunderclap, which knocked out 9,000 German railroads stations and railroad junctions. Now the system of transportation and food supply broke down. Food rations had to be cut. Belsen suffered a typhus epidemic. And the German commander said in radioing to the International Red Cross in Geneva:

“We have this situation here. If the war comes to our camp and these prisoners go out into the land, they will infect the occupying army, namely Montgomery’s army, and also the whole population of Europe. What should we do?”

And the British commander and the German commander agreed that the German SS guards were to go and protect the camp and keep it while the war raged around it. And when the war was just about over in this area, the British came and they took over the camp. And in typical English, World War II fashion, they grabbed the guys who had agreed to stay behind and they, number one, had them beaten up and the torture of the guards and the story of how you Anglos at the end of World War II got your lovely show trials and stuff like that. That’s another kettle of fish.

Radio Host: Now you saying, … Gotta go for a break. I have to let some other callers. Thanks for your call. 685-9181’s number. We’ll be right back after these messages. Back in about a minute. I won’t put you on hold just in case we get cut off.

Ernst Zundel: Okay. Fine, thank you.

Radio Host: How’s the weather in Toronto?

Ernst Zundel: It’s a beautiful day, Mr. Reynolds. It’s a beautiful day. I wish I could talk to you about something simple like flying saucers. But I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity, believe me. I do appreciate it, believe me. There are far too few people in the Western world today like yourself.

21 Zundel’s Advice Re Dealing with Radio Station Hosts

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[Zundel’s commentary]

Ernst Zundel: Now a very important lesson to be learned. Always congratulate your host. Always be deferential to him and be kind to him. Never bully him and never embarrass him! Always leave him a way out, because he too has a boss. He too has a station owner, station manager, program manager, advertisers. Don’t burn the bridges behind him unless you want to destroy him. And those cases ought to be very few. Always behave in such a way, even if you have to give a point or two, that you are the nice person, that you are the friendly one and a well mannered one. You don’t have to be mealy mouthed. Be hard and be soft. [chuckling] What I mean is be gentle and be kind. It has paid for me tremendous dividends. And time and again I’ve been told by moderators of radio and TV, the reason why they had me back on was because I always allowed them a way out with their station managers.

Now let us rejoin the program and carry on with the interview.

[Interview continues]

22 Germans Innocent of the Alleged Crime of Killing Six Million Jews

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Radio Host: John Reynolds back with Christoph Friedrich, the head of Samizdat out of Toronto. Mr. Friedrich, let me ask you a question. You mainly deal in other than things with the records and the tapes about German music and so forth, but UFOs, why would [n’t] you stick to UFOs, and stay away from the Nazi angle?

Ernst Zundel: Because it’s a matter upon which our civilization fails or survives!

Radio Host: Explain that.

Ernst Zundel: The German, supposed German guilt for World War II has taken the militarily, economically, politically strongest nation in the heart of Europe which after all is the heart of our culture and has made it the [word unclear]. We are the outcast today. You have had no German input of any significance since the end of World War II.

Mr. Reynolds, we have had 138 wars since 1945.

Radio Host: In British Columbia the largest ethnic group is German.

Ernst Zundel: Of course.

Radio Host: They’re top citizens. They’re leaders in business. This situation with the “Holocaust”, and what you’re trying to promote is passe with a lot of people. Jewish families involved in the war. German families involved in war that maybe have some guilt, have some hard feelings. But the young people today don’t have those types of feelings.

Ernst Zundel: Mr. Reynolds. That’s exactly my point. Why can we not discuss it sensibly? And why can we only judge it from the Jewish-Anglo, jewish angle?

Radio Host: What talk about it all?

Ernst Zundel: No, we can’t do that, Mr. Reynolds. Why should German people collectively bear the [word unclear] and individually the stigma of coming from a group of people that have murdered 6 million people, if they are innocent of the crime, why should we? We are not, …

Radio Host: Number one, that I don’t think is a stigma. The German people living in this country. Number two, there was a crime there.

Ernst Zundel: Okay, was Dresden not a crime? Was Hamburg not a crime? Was Nagasaki not a crime?

[34:48]

Radio Host: That’s a crime.

23 Was the Canadian Concentration Camps Not a Crime?

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Ernst Zundel: Was the Canadian concentration camps not a crime? You see, even, …

Radio Host: I agree with you. The way we treated the Japanese in the Second World War was a crime.

But it’s well talked about.

Ernst Zundel: Mr. Reynolds, but no restitution has been made, and to put it in proper perspective. You see, we have to first heal the wounds of the old before we can start anew. Humanity is like an organic body. If you have a cancer growing in one area, the body is sick, you see? And I’m saying to you, I want the wounds of World War II healed properly, not festering. And all those people who put on the Holocaust movie that was seen in 70 million American homes at one and the same time. And it was full of lies! ! Mr. Reynolds, they are the hatemongers! I tried to have that movie stop before it started. I am the nice guy! The others are the aggressors in this thing.

Radio Host: Go ahead.

Caller (male): Mr. Friedrich. How old are you?

Ernst Zundel: I’m 39.

Caller (male): So you were what? About six years old when the war ended?

Ernst Zundel: That’s right.

Caller (male): Do you really have no firsthand knowledge of what went on?

Ernst Zundel: My dear man, I have firsthand knowledge of being frightened like a dog by bombs falling on our head, by our house collapsing around us. By my mother being chased by American and Algerian invading troops. By the cruelty of your occupation, by the starvation. Don’t come unto me with honeyed words and say I have no recollection of the war. I do!

Caller (male): I happen to be German too. I came from there.

Ernst Zundel: Hey, that’s nice.

Caller (male): And I happen to be a lot older than you are.

Ernst Zundel: Good.

Caller (male): I saw it was, …

Ernst Zundel: It doesn’t make you necessarily wiser or more knowledgeable, though.

Caller (male): I’m not saying that I’m wiser, but you know, when I’m listening to you, I can understand, you profess to represent what German people think or say.

Ernst Zundel: I never did. I never did!

Caller (male): You don’t?

Ernst Zundel: I say what some German people think, those who think and not those who think they think.

Caller (male): I’m glad to hear that. Because, …

Ernst Zundel: You see, you don’t think, you just think you think.

Caller (male): I can quite see if somebody listens to you, then you just get turned off. If that is what comes out of Germany. Good God! You know, you’re a nut!

Ernst Zundel: What would you like to come out of Germany? Tell me! More reparations for crimes we didn’t commit? More flagellating, more self incriminating for things we didn’t do?

24 Caller Recounts Seeing Ss Shot People

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Caller (male): All right. I happened to be in Germany and outside of Germany during those years and I have seen what was going on.

Ernst Zundel: You were outside those years in Germany, is that it?

Caller (male): Let me finish, please. Just don’t butt in all the time!

Ernst Zundel: No, look, get your story straight. Were you in Germany at that time or out of Germany?

Caller (male): Yes, I was in Germany. I was in Poland. Let me tell you. I have seen how the jews were rounded up. I have seen them running around in droves being driven by SS people. I’ve seen them being shot. Shot! Just because somebody was straggling, couldn’t follow the rest.

Ernst Zundel: And what did you do about it?

Caller (male): What I did about it? Nothing! I couldn’t do anything.

Ernst Zundel: Exactly!

In other words, you were a coward then and you are a coward now!

Caller (male): Let me tell you something right now. I may have been a coward! I probably was. I was at the time, 15 years of age.

Ernst Zundel: Well, if you saw somebody shot and didn’t do something about it, you were a coward!

Caller (male): I probably was.

But I can tell you one thing, it certainly has weighed very heavily on my conscience. Because what was going on, that was not right. And I don’t give a damn how much you rant and rave.

Ernst Zundel: I’m not ranting or raving.

Caller (male): You will never be able to obliterate the darkest period in German history. Okay?

Ernst Zundel: Well, if the Canadians are doing as well, and the British and the Americans and the jews in obliterating their dark parts in their history, we’d have a beautiful world. But as long as it’s only one sided, I Intend to speak the other side as long as good God gives me a breath to do it.

Caller (male): I just hope that people don’t regard you as representative of Germany.

Radio Host: 685 918 was the number. We’ll be right back after these messages.

[break]

You get any interference from the RCMP coming in to look at your membership list?

Ernst Zundel: Not anymore. Not anymore.

Radio Host: They did it one time?

Ernst Zundel: I used to be [word unclear] two or three times a week. Yeah, but not anymore. The main problem now comes from the Canadian jewish Congress and their agents.

25 There is Always an Uncle Tom.

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[Zundel’s commentary on the caller]

Ernst Zundel: It never fails. There is always an Uncle Tom! The blacks have him, the jews have him and the Germans have him. That is if the caller indeed was a German as he claimed to be. He did have some strange accent, that’s for sure.

However, I practically smelled him coming from left field and decided early on that here was one guy that was going to be nailed. And he certainly was! And I’m happy that that is now. There is no way that you can allow people like that to dominate the program by trying to be overly kind to them. People like that who mess into their own bed, you have to be short and swift! Back to the program.

[39:59]

Radio Host: John Reynolds back with Christoph Friedrich in Toronto. 685-9181 the number go ahead please.

Hello?

Caller (male): Hello.

Radio Host: Go ahead.

26 Caller on Japanese in Concentration Camps

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Caller (male): What he says about immigration coming in this country. Well, I’m in agreement what he said about only the White race, that White people should immigrate here. But I wasn’t in agreement with what he said about the Japanese being innocent because it was myself I think it was a good thing that they were put in concentration camps because if the Japanese had landed here the ones that were in the country would have helped the Japanese invading forces.

And one of Japanese was educated in Vancouver here went to school and had his education here. He went over to Japan during the war and he was one of the worst ones over there. He beat the Canadian soldiers with whips in the camps there and [word unclear] for it.

Radio Host: Does that mean that all the rest of them would have been the same?

Caller (male): Pardon?

Radio Host: Does that mean that all the rest of them would have been the same? Why would a Japanese Canadian be any lesser Canadian than you were?

Caller (male): Well, I mean I don’t have any agreement with it. It wasn’t very innocent. You didn’t know what’s behind it. They [word unclear] truckloads of rifles and war stuff and short waves receivers and everything.

Ernst Zundel: And Mr. Reynolds.

Radio Host: I don’t know believe that gives us the right to take away people’s property.

Ernst Zundel: Mr. Reynolds, if I may interject here. I have read the story of the tragedy of the American Japanese and the Canadian Japanese. I am not aware of one single instance where truckloads of Japanese rifles were taken away. That is a red herring of wartime propaganda. Now in the calmer days 30 years after. That’s simply not true.

Number one, I’d like to say on principle Japan did not declare war on Canada. Number two, Canada meddled in Japanese affairs 10,000 miles away from home in Hong Kong. Number three, the Japanese people who were in this country were legally admitted immigrants, had an excellent work record, were frugal, thrifty, pillars of society. They were robbed in the most sneaky, slimy way of their hard earned property. Proper restitution has not been done. When Premier Kuro went over to Japan and apologized to the people of Japan, the columns and the radio stations in the Toronto area were so full of hate towards our own Prime Minister. Just apologizing, that I am telling you Canadians have some skeletons in the crossing and their skeletons are intolerance and hate! And I am bringing those out. And if I speak forcefully, I speak with the eloquence of emergency. Because I can assure you if you Canadians are going to let this thing get done to the Germans today and you were allowing it yesterday to the Japanese, tomorrow you will allow it to another ethnic group. I’m telling you, if we don’t come to grips with this cancer in Canadian society tomorrow, it might be you!

Caller (male): Why don’t you speak to some of the Canadians that was taken Christmas day, prisoners in places there, and they were tortured.

Ernst Zundel: Sir, my question to you is, what business did they have to do over in Hong Kong? Did Canada have no problems in their own country?

So you see, if you meddle in a fight between two bullies, if you meddle in that and you get a black eye, it’s not like, don’t come back, complaining!

Caller (male): Well, they landed here, they came here by the submarine. They were just about pretty close to taking over the Aleutian islands. They had places dug in rock there and they confixated all their supplies. Don’t worry my friend, they were just about right to our doorstep here.

Ernst Zundel: This was after the war was on.

Anyway. Listen, this is a very fruitless discussion. I frankly think that the Japanese were maltreated and Canadians cannot make any excuses and cannot treat it under the rug. Justice is what we want. Justice for all the people, including jews, Pakistanis and Indians. What I’m saying to you is that I was the only one in 1968 to prevent problems from happening. Don’t you see? 1968, the United States was experiencing civil war on a massive scale where blacks were burning down practically every large city. You know, Watts and Detroit and so on. And I said at that time to the special Commission sitting in Montreal:

“Gentlemen, please learn from what is happening. We don’t owe these people anything!”

Canada didn’t have empire, you see I can see England having to import these people, but Canada should have a policy that is best for Canadians.

Caller (male): Well, the Black Panthers are stirring up the Indians here in Canada. And the Indians didn’t have enough sense to fight for themselves. But until another outfit came in here called the Black Panthers and they just stir these Indians up and it’s just making trouble for the Indians. And the Canadian government is surprised that they let these leaders come in from the United States.

Ernst Zundel: No, afraid I have to once again put it in the proper historical perspective. You Canadians in World War II allied yourself with Marxism, international Communism!

Now, because they were your allies then, you feel kind of uneasy about cracking down on them now because it would mean you made a mistake then. So what are you doing? You are allowing all kinds of Marxist infiltrators into your university, into your news media, and into the book publishing business and into education. And what they turn out are young commies. And these young commies then go out agitating minorities. Naturally, they’re not going to actually agitate the mass of Canadians because they are so lethargic. So they go after the Indians and other minorities.

[45:47]

27 Zundel’s Commentary on the Typical Canadian Man in the Street on Race

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Radio Host: Okay, thanks for your call. 685-918 was the number. We’ll be right back after these messages.

[Zundel’s commentary]

Ernst Zundel: What you have just heard is the typical average Canadian man in the street, World War II veteran speaking. A simple man with a bigoted viewpoint. Basically what he is a racist, but afraid to say it.

Now, here in me, he had found somebody who was very seldom on Canadian airwaves these days, willing to put in the good word for the Whites and point out their desperate situation. And the poor devil called up and couldn’t really make his point coherently.

Yet he had lived this kind of viewpoint for all his life and ended up trying to defend the indefensible. Interesting also is that the moderator, former Member of Parliament, all he could think about was the Japanese property being taken away. It didn’t occur to him that that’s not the main beef. It was not that the property was taken away. It was the fact that in a Democratic country that was not under immediate attack, was not being invaded, the dignity of human beings was being insulted that they were being herded into concentration camps. Men, women, children, father, mother, grandfather, grandparents and so on. They were robbed of their fortunes. They were robbed of their fishing boats and their fishing gears, their farms and so on. And Canadians can make no excuses. And he tried to make an excuse with World War II propaganda. What he pulled on the Japanese, they’re trying to pull on the Germans. Back to the program.

Radio Host: Okay, John Reynolds back. My guest is Chris Christoph Friedrich, head of Samizdat. 6859181 is the number. Go ahead.

28 Caller on the Suppressed Book ‘All Honorable Men’

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Caller (male): Yes, hello, Mr. Reynolds.

Radio Host: Yes.

Caller (male): I know you’re first, please. Thank God from your political deal. Is the other gentleman on the line too? Have either of you people ever read the first publication of a book called All Honorable Men? All Honorable Men.

Radio Host: Christoph Friedrich, have you read the book All Honorable Men?

Ernst Zundel: Is that by the English writer Douglas Reed?

Radio Host: English writer who was in Germany after the war. The book was suppressed. A new version came out which is completely different from the original publication of the book called All Our Men. Unfortunately, I loaned it out to somebody. I never got it back. There is a book out All Honorable Men, but it’s not the same version.

But in the original publication of the book, All Our Men showed how the Second World War was perpetrated!

Now, you realize that IG Farben was never bombed in Germany. IG Farben had a subsidiary in the United States. They made their deal and in United States manufactured and it said on there, it documented made in Germany was sent to South America. The money came back to Germany.

By the way, I’m a disabled war veteran.

And when I read that book, the original publication, which was the suppressed, showed how Schrader [sp], who was a companion of Roosevelt went to Germany and became the financial expert in Germany. I am in complete agreement. And I fought against you people. I speak German fluently. I’m a disabled war veteran.

Radio Host: Make your point, please.

Caller (male): Pardon?

Radio Host: Make your point.

Caller (male): Yeah, but what I’m saying is this. If you could, any of you, Mr. Reynolds and the gentleman there, could get the original edition of All Honorable Men, there is documentation after documentation. And I happen to agree. And Mr. Reynolds, but the other gentleman there were that not many jews were that. Now I don’t agree with all of them.

Radio Host: Okay, thanks for your comment.

29 World War II was Above All a Battle for World Markets

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Ernst Zundel: Mr. Reynolds. May I say something to that, please?

Radio Host: Go ahead.

Ernst Zundel: There’s no doubt that World War II was above all a battle for world markets. You see, and it is clearly expressed in the British Foreign Office documents which have been recently released after the 30 year time is up and American Foreign Office or Secretary of State offices and documents which are now being declassified after 35 years.

The fact is that Japan and Germany being geographically in a small area, being devoid of raw materials, these two nations must export in order to live. So they were in effect disturbing the international trading pattern. And high finance and international multinational corporations got together the way this fellow describes out of this book, All Honorable Men, got together and they decided:

“Well, if we can wipe out the competition, we will have the world markets to ourselves!”

You see?

Radio Host: Let me ask you a question. What about a gentleman by the name of Speers? You know him?

Ernst Zundel: No.

20 Belsen and the Typhus Epidemic and the Germans Told to Protect the Camp Until the British Arrived

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Radio Host: You haven’t read his book? He was one of the German officers who was tried in Nuremberg.

Ernst Zundel: Oh, Speer. Well, okay, I’ll be happy to respond to this. I’ve corresponded with him. Mr. Reynolds, that man was in allied custody for 20 years! He was only allowed to read what four different nations censored for him.

Now, if you and I can put on commercials in advertising and sell cars with 1 minute exposure over the radio or television, then a man whom I have for a 20 year captive audience is brainwashed so beyond recognition that he is a totally altered, different personality! The Albert Speer who came out of Spandau is an allied zombie!

Radio Host: So you’re saying the books he wrote about the atrocities are things that have been planted in his head by the Allies?

Ernst Zundel: After 20 years of confinement under sole allied tutelage, where only allied approved psychologists took his head apart and his brain apart, they only supplied him with the books that they allowed him to. Every newspaper is cut out meticulously as to articles which you’re not supposed to read, I ask you in all honesty, can that man be balanced?

[53:02]

Radio Host: May not be balanced. I don’t think he was balanced to do what he did in the first place.

Ernst Zundel: What did he do in the first place? He was our ministry of war production. You see, Mr. Reynolds, that’s my point. How can a grown up man like yourself, a Member of Parliament, say that he shouldn’t have done what he did in the first place? Nations in war, always find men who run the war machine for them. Canadians did. Americans did. Churchill did. Why should we not have very capable ministers of war? He was a very capable technocrat.

Radio Host: He also knew the atrocities that were being committed.

Ernst Zundel: He says he didn’t. He said he should have thought about it. But you see, the point is, if he says he didn’t, then I put it to you, if a guy in that kind of elevated office doesn’t know about it, maybe it is because they didn’t exist.

Radio Host: Oh, you heard the previous caller say he was a German from Poland and they did exist.

Ernst Zundel: Well, a 15 year old kid who was too cowardly to protect somebody from being shot, then to take his word, believe me, he doesn’t stand up against hard evidence.

31 Caller Claims Innocent Children Put in Gas Chambers

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Caller (male): Hello?

Radio Host: Yes, go ahead.

Caller (male): Yes, I would like to know what business this German fellow has to criticize Canada and United States. I mean, listen. They have killed babies in pregnant women and send them the gas chamber. He’s lying! He’s a nobody! He was a little child at the time the war was on. What he know about it? How many innocent children was put in the gas chamber? And I lost myself 40 people for my family! He has a face, he has a nerve to come on the radio and talk lies like this. And people have to listen this. Not ashamed! You let him go on the radio station. You should send him to Germany. He wouldn’t talk like this in Germany. He don’t know nothing about the whole history!

There was not killed Japanese children. There was not food to give them. They let the people work till he died. Until he got killed in heavy stones. And he telling stories for the people. They wasn’t killing the jews and they don’t killing. They want to kill the whole world! There was the whole song made up from the Germans. Germany is small, the whole world is ours! What do you think men like this you let go on the radio. This is a shame! I can’t understand how can a person talk on the radio to the public like that? There’s nobody to give him the answer on it. How everything he is saying is lying. What mixing up Japanese and other nations in this program? They talk about Germany. Did Germany know that there was only 6 million jews only killed?

Ernst Zundel: I’m afraid you have had the, …

Radio Host: He’s allowed to say is a free country, whether we want to believe or not. 685918 was the number. We’ll be right back after the event.

32 Zundel’s Commentary on the Jewish Caller and Their Emotionalism and Lies

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Ernst Zundel: Well, finally here we had it. I was waiting for that call for the very first part of the program. Usually, in the olden days, or certainly in Eastern Canada and in the Eastern United States where there is a far greater concentration of jewish people, we get this type of call by the dozens! Monopolizing the airwaves with their emotionalism. Trying to once again cry, moan, whine about all the things that have been done to them, offering no evidence. But for the gullible public, they certainly talk a good persecution and a good crime.

Now, is it interesting that the moderator did not allow me to get back at that man and to nail him. He just cut him off. And then, of course, went conveniently to some commercial announcements which gave me no chance to respond to this man’s accusations.

However, for the European listeners, this can serve as the typical call. This is why it is so very important that this issue of anti-German propaganda and of this monstrous, horrific lie about Germans killing 6 million jews must be exposed wherever we can! This is the pivotal question! Once this lie has been exposed as a propaganda lie, the world will change upside down, inside out! And our people who have been hated and maligned will become the angels of the world!

And this is what those who peddle the lie are afraid of they have gambled wildly and recklessly that they can can control all the channels of communications for all time. If it is possible for us to break through that curtain the way I have broken through with this interview, for instance, on this Canadian radio station, which was the largest radio station on the east coast in Canada, large enough so that they have two private helicopters looking after traffic reports, their own reporters, roving reporters, large enough that they not shy the expense of paying for a long distance call from Vancouver to Toronto over a distance of 5,000 miles for an hour and a half.

[58:44]

33 The Need for All Those Who Believe in the Rightness of the Cause to Help Spread the Message

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Now, when we can break through day in, day out, year after year, through this media curtain with our facts, our figures, our proof, then a new age will be dawning. This is why it is so absolutely crucial that the people who believe in the same things that I believe in, who are unable because of age, lack of faith in themselves or talent in the media, maybe because they speak English with even more of an accent than I do, that they help us in financing my work. Because the proof certainly is given in this interview again that we can make breakthroughs and we can reach the public. And you can see there were all kinds of people out there who are willing to agree with us and who are willing to listen to us.

We have all kinds of allies. But right now they are isolated and we are isolated. We cannot reach them for lack of funds. If we had the money, we could buy radio time on every radio station, we could buy TV time on every TV station. Within a very few short years, we could change the German image in the world, the image of National Socialism, which, after all, was an attempt by White Europe to save itself at the end of a cultural cycle and to start and Make a glorious new beginning.

If people would only realize the importance of this, we could change the world together. I cannot do it alone. Obviously, some of the members of the jewish community made their usual quick phone calls to rustle up support and to get their fellow racial comrades to get under the airwaves and to give this German, of all people, a piece of their mind and to give them a hard time. Because it is so seldom that Germans speak out in public, and especially even more seldom that they speak out on the airwaves as frankly and as freely as I did in this particular interview. The reaction was equal. Just as we heard by the previous caller every old propaganda lie rehashed, even the canard of “Deutschland ueber alles” or the “tomorrow the world” business. So often has this story been told in Heideggerd UN Deutschland Und Morgen die ganze Welt, that I’m so sick and tired of trying to even explain it. If all the songs that every army in the world had ever sung was broadcast, I think that there would be some pretty red faces and embarrassed politicians.

34 Jews and Their Claims of Having Lost Untold Family Members!

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And the fact that he lost 40 members of his family, well, gee, it is incredible! Everyone that I meet of these people lost 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 80 members of their family. Some 200 members of their family! Hell, I can’t even remember 20 members of my family. But these people, they can remember 200! And they all lost them. And yet they’re all here!

35 Anti-Semitism as a Natural Self-Defence Reaction

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The next caller is a female, and she also brings out the old war horse of jewish propaganda, namely that the German people had to suffer and have to suffer because of the world retaliating against us. Nobody ever bothers to reflect or give meditation or to think about why the Germans turned against the jews in the first place! Ours was a reaction of self defense. This is why the word anti-semitism or anti-Judaism was coined and created. It is inherent in the very word itself that ours was a natural reaction of a body politic, of a nation, of a state, of a culture, of a race, if you want, against intruders. If we had been for the jews, it would mean pro-semitism. But because of the way these people behaved, it was anti-semitism. If they had behaved beautifully, it could have been becoming philo-semitism. Or if they hadn’t been there would have been no anti, no pro, no nothing. You see, nobody bothers to think about those things.

36 As a War Measure, the Concentration Camps Can Be Justified

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And it is once again important that we make this point again and again to the people of the world, that our reaction was natural, that as a war measure, the concentration camps can be justified. However ugly they are and however little we like them. Nobody likes to be deprived of their freedom. Neither do I. But the fact is we do not have to be forever bow our heads in shame because there were concentration camps and there were people in concentration camps. Because just about every country involved in World War II had people rotting in jail, forgot about their so-called human rights and civil rights. Imprisoned men, women and children. And in many countries, notably the glorious Democratic ally Joseph Stalin killed people by the millions and nobody cared and nobody squawked! So we should forget about defending ourselves but to take the initiative.

Back to the program.

37 Female Caller Supporting the Holocaust Movie

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Radio Host: Hello, Good morning.

Caller (female): Yes, I would like to say a few words to your guest too. He seem to be awfully upset about a story that we saw on Holocaust. That story should have been told long time ago. You shouldn’t be upset because that’s a crime that was done and it should be told. Same like all other wars when they’re on TV, nobody’s upset.

But now when that story is told, he seems to be awfully upset because it’s something to be upset about. Because seeing something like that really is unbelievable!

Ernst Zundel: Madam. Has the mass murder of the civilian German population ever been shown in an eight hour television special all over North American television? Have the rapes of the 100,000 women in Berlin by the Soviets and Mongolian troops, ever been featured played? Have the rapes of the Viennese? Have the murders, the tortures in allied concentration camps after the war, have they ever been shown? No!

Caller (female): They might not be. But after the things that they did, they might be understandable why the people wanted to retaliate because of that you should understand that that story should be told a long time ago to remind us all the time what was going on.

Ernst Zundel: I’ve been in Canada for 20 years and I’ve heard nothing but this story from one side. Until finally after 20 years, …

Caller (female): [word unclear] not have got enough guts to [word unclear]

Ernst Zundel: You know something lady? I have enough guts, … Grant me enough guts from my side to speak up for our side.

Look. Grant me the guts from my side to speak up to our side. There is no not only your side. There’s always two sides to a story.

Caller (female): There is many nation sides and they all agree. Except you!

Ernst Zundel: They don’t all agree, my dear. They don’t all agree, my dear.

Caller (female): They do!

Ernst Zundel: In Tokyo during the war crimes trial., …

Caller (female): They do agree on this story, except you!

Ernst Zundel: Because you, my dear woman, there are thousands of books, there are thousands of books written in the world about the jewish lies about Holocaust, the blackmail that it is, and so on. It has nothing to do with fact at all! It is a money making racket employed internationally. Just the fact that a thousand guys tell a lie does make the original lie, not the truth! It is a lie!

[1:07:53]

38 Male Caller Somewhat Supportive of Zundel’s Position

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Radio Host: Thanks for your call. Go ahead.

Caller (male): Hello. Good morning, John. First of all, let me put the record straight. This Holocaust business, this is a drama which has backfired completely. It has been produced by the jews themselves. Secondly, we are they always talking about the 6 million jews, but they never mention that there are 22 million during the Second World War who are gentile, Canadian, British, Russians, Germans as well, they have been killed as well.

Thirdly, those 6 million jews they have been smuggled into the United States. And quite a bit of them, they went into Palestine itself. To legitimize their claim in Israel.

Ernst Zundel: Absolutely!

Radio Host: All these facts they have not been told to the people!

Ernst Zundel: Absolutely!

Radio Host: [word unclear] can look for one side and neglect the other.

Ernst Zundel: Absolutely!

Radio Host: And two wrongs do not make right!

Ernst Zundel: Absolutely!

Radio Host: Exactly what has been practiced by the Germans on the jews and the victims of the jews by the Germans they are by Eichmann himself, who was a jew.

And finally the jews they have been compensated for all the damages. They got $35 billion out of West Germany for this so-called story of the 6 million jews. People better go to library and start to read and look to the two sides. I do not believe in killing, but two wrongs do not make right because exactly the jews are doing it in Palestine on the 3.5 million Arab Palestinians. And this is all that I have to say. John. Okay.

39 Israel Has Got Terror Squads Going out into the World Assassinating Diplomats, Etc.

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Ernst Zundel: Mr. Reynolds. The week that Holocaust was being shown in the Western world, Israel invaded southern Lebanon.

Now, Israel has had three wars in the last generation. Germany has had none. Israel has got terror squads going out into the world assassinating diplomats and those whom they suspect of being terrorists. And there have been several mishaps reported where they got the wrong man.

In other words, we have hit squads roaming the planet, abducting people, kidnapping people, assassinating people, silencing people, burning people’s homes down like they did to this German in France, Jochen Pieper and so on.

Now there is an international gang of terrorists loose on the planet and they are camouflaging their international power by stuff like that. And we don’t like it. And the world should be grateful for a guy like John Reynolds and for a guy like Christoph Friedrich Zundel to get on the telephone and to alert them to the fact of what is happening! We are a planet in the grip of a gang of terrorists who are using this emotional propaganda to camouflage not their bygone deeds, nobody’s ever talked about them, but their current deeds!

Radio Host: Don’t thank me, Christopher. I’ve only got you on because you’re, …

Ernst Zundel: Controversial!

Radio Host: Controversial.

And I think people should know that you’re around because I think you’re, …

Ernst Zundel: What?

[Call cut out]

40 Male Caller Denies Gas Chambers and Disputes the Number of Jews Who Died

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Radio Host: Hello? Hello, you’re there, Go ahead, go ahead Conor, go ahead.

Caller (female): The war was over. Hello?

Radio Host: Yes, go ahead again.

Caller (female): When the war was over I was 15 years old. When I’ve been around in Eastern Europe and then in Western Europe. When I hear this story it’s been told over the Holocaust, you know all the murdering goes on. It’s unbelievable what kind of lies! Because I’ve been down after war and around Bavaria with how concentration camp used to be. There was nothing! There was no gas chamber whatsoever! The gas chamber been built 1948!

Ernst Zundel: A Hollywood movie.

Caller (female): American supervision.

Ernst Zundel: A Hollywood movie.

Caller (female): In a little chamber, supposed to burn 6 million jews. Like in Canada, anybody who you listen to in the radio television he’s always:

“I was lucky I survived!”

How could he survive in Europe, in only 3 million jews? When you go back to Russia now and count the population the jewish in Poland how many immigrants to South America, to Palestine, the United States, Canada, you know how many are left who got killed? One million, two hundred thousand. That’s proven from the Swiss Red Cross. But that story they never told, people died of starvation. It was from 1944-45 because there was no transportation, no food! The food rationing was anyway. I mean there was no way to get the food to the people.

Ernst Zundel: In other words, …

Caller (female): Other people died. I saw him laying on the road as we marched from Poland to [word unclear] in front of the Russians, you know. And I thought he been shot down, you know from bombs and everything. But after the war when we stayed in Bavaria, so after you went to north German plain there, when his story’s been told [words unclear] brainwashed. The older people over there, they’re dying out. They forget, you know. It’s unbelievable, …

Radio Host: Anything that happened at the Nuremberg trials was true?

[1:12:59]

41 Zundel Talks About the Nuremberg Trials and the Dissenting Opinion of an Indian Judge

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Ernst Zundel: Let me tell you about the Nuremberg trials.

Radio Host: I haven’t read them all but I’ve looked, …

Caller (female): Yeah, that’s the trouble, you know you only read the one side of it, you know.

Radio Host: Hey, thanks for your call.

Ernst Zundel: Mr Reynolds.

Radio Host: Go ahead.

Ernst Zundel: Mr. Reynolds I have in front of me a book put out by the British trial lawyer who defends Field Marshal Manstein in a war crimes trial in Germany after the war. And he quotes in there an Indian judge. He refers to him as “the great Indian judge Rahabino de Pal”, who wrote the dissenting judgment which he delivered as one of the judges of the International Court at Tokyo. Now he would have never been chosen number one as a judge had he been pro-German. He was completely neutral, an Indian judge, one of India’s great judges. Here is what the judge said as a dissenting opinion in Tokyo. And the same holds true for Germany:

“The so-called trial held according to the definition of crime now given by the victors obliterates the centuries of civilization which stretch between us and the summary slaying of a defeated in war. A trial with law thus prescribed would only be a sham employment of the legal process for the satisfaction of the thirst for revenge. It does not correspond to any idea of justice and may justly create the feeling that it is much more a political than a legal affair. To say that the Victor can define a crime at his will and then punish would be to revert back to those days when he was allowed to devastate an occupied country, appropriate all public and private property therein and kill the inhabitants or take them away into captivity.”

Mr. Reynolds, I will tell you that the United States, that the Soviet Union, that England, Canada, Belgium and France behave in exactly this manner!

In other words, the Indian judge calls them barbarians!

Radio Host: Okay, 685-9181. We’ll be right back after these messages.

42 Zundel’s Commentary on the Radio Host’s Willingness to Let Him Speak Freely

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Ernst Zundel: Well, I have to admit to our listeners that in all the TV shows and in all the public debates and so on that I’ve ever made in North America, this one is turning out to be something else. This moderator is allowing me to say things unopposed. I can’t believe it! This has really in all honesty never happened to me before, that I would have been able to so openly state the German case and also to so openly and continuously attack the Allies. There is very little opposition from the callers that come in. We have had an Arab for the first time, an Arab coming to our defense. The reason why I am stressing the Arab is that I used to fight for the Arabic and Palestine Palestinian cause versus the Israelis with great vehemence and never received any support at all Over The Airwaves. And I was completely disgusted by it.

However, that was in Montreal. It does seem that the population composition of Vancouver is different and that this is why we can say more and be on the air.

43 Female Caller on the Amount of Hate Mongering That is Going On.

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Radio Host: Yes caller.

Caller (male): I really, I can’t understand this program this morning. It just seems to be made up of hate!

But what I want to say is that can you tell me any country in the world that has not done, you know, terrible things to other nations, like even right today, right in Ireland, look what’s going on. And because a madman, Hitler, and he was proven mad! I mean, because he did these things, why blame the German people? The German are well educated. They’re one of the smartest people in the world. And not saying there’s lots of other smart people, but just because one madman did it, why is it all this hate perpetuated?

Radio Host: Because of Mr. Friedrich, I think, and what he’s doing.

Caller (male): Jewish people, too, seem to have a heck of a lot of resentment.

44 Zundel’s Run for the Post of Leader of the Liberal Party in 1968

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Ernst Zundel: You see, it’s interesting, Mr. Reynolds, that I am supposed to be the hate monger. You can say about German people the most foul lies and the most horrible things. And you can say it over Canadian radio, over Canadian television. You can say it in Canadian newspapers and you can say it in our Canadian university textbooks. Mr. Reynolds, I went through your school system here and through your university system. I ran for the post of leader of the Liberal Party in 1968. I know what Canadians think, and I know what they do you know! You are the people, in effect, who have love on your lap and hate in your heart when it comes to Germans! It’s as simple as that!

Radio Host: How much did you get when you ran against Trudeau for the Liberal leadership?

Ernst Zundel: Pardon me?

Radio Host: How many votes did you get?

Ernst Zundel: I purposely dropped out five minutes before the balloting.

Radio Host: Why?

Ernst Zundel: Because I wanted to make the statement that a man with his own money, totally independent, could run and arrive in Ottawa and make it to the same podium, speak to the Canadian people. And I spoke to them strictly about anti-German hate propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less! I’m not a megalomaniac. I know exactly the limits of my personality. But I use that as a platform to say:

“Canadians, look in the mirror, stop hating us, number one, we don’t deserve it, number one. Number two, it doesn’t make you look any better for kicking around on us!”

You know, it’s okay to kick around a defeated enemy, but after 30 years, it reflects on the guy that does the kicking.

Radio Host: Why didn’t you continue and see how many votes you’d get?

[1:18:47]

Ernst Zundel: I had no misconception that Trudeau was going to win the election because I understand my fellow Canadians. You know, they were swept up by Trudeau mania. The media manufactured it.

And since I didn’t have the media behind me, thanks to my infiltrated cronies in the press, I certainly had no chance, just as little as Robert Winders or Paul Helio or anybody else. But if I had made it.

Radio Host: Thank you very much for being with us this morning. I don’t wish you any success because I think what you do, …

Ernst Zundel: Really, Mr. Reynolds, if I had made it, the country would be in much better shape, believe me.

Radio Host: Okay, well, that’s how you feel, I guess you’ve got the right in this country to do what you want to do.

Ernst Zundel: The results are obvious. Thank you.

Radio Host: Thank you very much.

45 Zundel’s Commentary on the Whole Program and Practical Advice to Callers

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Ernst Zundel: Little remarkable remains to be said about this interview. On the whole, it is one of the most remarkable ones that I have done because of the length and because of the truth that I was able to say. Believe me, in 90% of the cases I couldn’t have been on that radio station for five minutes, and I would have been cut off.

But it seems that either the mood of the population is changing, or that the mood of the men in the media is changing, or that this man in particular doesn’t like what is happening and is using me as a mouthpiece. I do not know. I don’t understand it.

But as they say in English, why should I look a gift horse in the mouth? The program cost me nothing. The radio station paid for the telephone call. And my cause and my German people’s cause has been once again well defended and well served.

For those who are about to get into the media field, I think that this tape could serve as a good training tape, if I may say so, with all modesty, if you pardon the pun. But I have done so many of these radio shows that I’m beginning to consider myself somewhat of an expert.

Look at some of the callers that call in. They are amateurs and you can tell that they are amateurs. They are wandering all over the landscape. And again and again the moderator has to remind them:

“Make your point. Make your point! What’s your point? Come to your point!”

In other words, if you’re going to call in a program like that, write down what you want to say point for point, Rehearse it a little, say it out loud. Nobody’s around anyways. Most people are at work. And then state your case clearly, succinctly and carefully.

I learned my lessons and worked hard in polishing my media stance. I just wish I could have more opportunities like this one to make use of my 10 years of training, my 20 years of training, actually. And naturally, more than anything else, I wish I could do it back home in Germany.

However, there must be people who have to do it over here in North America. And as long as we are here, working here, living here, it is our duty to speak out and to stand up for what is right and for what is true. Naturally, I appeal, since this is in English, to all our many English speaking friends across this land, the United States and around the world.

This problem is not a German problem. It is your problem. It is our problem. It is a world problem. The German people didn’t create it, you helped create it. If you are too young, your father or your grandfather helped to create it. Now it’s your responsibility and my responsibility, our responsibility to change it. Because we live in this world together. It is up to you and I to pass on to our children and to future generations a better world, a healthier world, an honest world, a clean world and an unpolluted world. Not only unpolluted, that we have clear streams, clear oceans, clean air, but also clean brains! And thoroughly cleaned souls! Because we without those two, the other will, number one, not matter, and number two cannot be achieved.

Therefore, it is almost ironic that this problem of undetermined propaganda, of hate programs against Germans drag down those who do the hating and inhibit them in growing, because hate makes blind. And throughout this program you will have noticed that I speak very firmly and very quickly and very much to the point, but never with hate.

When in my early years and younger years I was so full of pain as to why and what had happened to Germany, and when I first discovered the horrendousness of this lie, I used to get so distraught that I suppose I hated, and I lost every radio program.

As a consequence I would say to check one’s emotions, to make sure one is relaxed, not tired, not agitated, and to try very hard to keep one’s emotions under control because the public airwaves are no medium for sounding like some raving lunatic. Speak by all means with feeling, but never with hate. Otherwise you will lose your audience, you will not be understood, and many people won’t be able to follow you. Therefore, try to state your case without hesitation, without humming and hawing, and rather be short and to the point than try to be long winded. And always keep in mind to whom you are speaking. If you are speaking to Canadians, address them on Canadian topics such as Canadian concentration camps, Canadian war crimes and Canadian skeletons in their closets. Don’t roam around the world about the 1918 revolution and this control and that stuff. Nobody’s interested.

[1:27:06]

Another thing to remember, stay away from figures. Nothing is more deadly and more boring than to discuss statistics and figures on radio. The counting of dead bodies is stupid and lurid and sad enough on paper, but it has absolutely no place on radio and not on television. I have seen how people have lost audiences left, right, front and center because they try to impress them with their knowledge of figures. Believe me, you can use it as a tactic to throw your opponent, of course, but don’t ever think you can score points. It’s a waste of time and it’s a waste of airtime. Stick to simple things that people can relate to, like stealing somebody’s property, beating, raping, mugging, torture, prison, stuff like that. Now that they can see every now night on television, they can relate to that. And if you relate that to them in our case, your point will be well made. Otherwise you’re going to get bogged down in 6 million and 9 million, minus 472,000 and so on. So many jews in Poland and all this, it is useless! Nobody cares. Nobody cares!

People basically think what the Germans did was monstrous because all they can relate to is that they might know a jew who is nice, or a jewish woman or jewish kid whom they like. And of course we murdered in effect the people whom they liked. So what we have to say is exactly what I said in this program. It is not our fault. We didn’t start this whole mess, somebody else did. It could have been solved differently if people had been willing.

Now, we don’t want to shoulder all the blame.

[01:29:13]

END

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See Also

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Monika Schaefer – The Flipside with Monika – Ep 15 with Jürgen Neumann on Ernst Zündel – Oct 12, 2024 – Transcript

The Flipside with Monika – Ep 18 with Jürgen Neumann – Nov 2, 2024 – Transcript

The Flipside with Monika – Ep 36 with Jürgen Neumann on Ernst Zundel – Mar 22, 2025 – Transcript

Ernst Zundel – Another Voice of Freedom Radio – Why World War II Started – 1994 – Transcript

Ernst Zundel – 1967-68 Radio Shows in Montreal Discussing Israel and Jewish Topics 1 – Transcript

Ernst Zundel – 1967-68 Radio Shows in Montreal Discussing Israel and Jewish Topics 2 – Transcript

Joel Davis – WWII Revisionism Re-enters the Mainstream – Sep 6, 2024 – Transcript

Woes: Hello. And welcome back to Millenniyule 2021. This is the second night. And there are going to be four streams tonight. Let me see. In two hours it will be Survive the Jive, and then Mark Gullick, and then Charles Robertson.

But first it’s UK Column. Now, I have three representatives from the UK Column here. This is Brian Garrish, David Scott, and Alex Thompson. Now I last had UK Column on in 2017. There have been various reasons why they haven’t been on since. But I wanted to have them on since then. But unfortunately it just wasn’t possible for various reasons.

But I’m a big fan of UK Column. I’ll introduce you this way. A lot of people might have once thought UK Column is a conspiracy based thing. It goes into that sort of territory.

And a lot of people have been skeptical of that whole area until the last maybe five years, and then especially the last two years. I think a lot of people are now much more amenable to the notion of things being orchestrated behind the scenes. And sometimes openly, shamelessly, than they once were.

So we’re going to talk about the last two years.

So welcome UK Column! Thank you for agreeing to appear.

David Scott: Thank you.

Woes: Yeah that’s Alex there. That’s Brian and David.

David Scott: It’s lovely to be here. It’s been a while since 2017.

Woes: Yes.

David Scott: In 2017 we’re sitting in, I think Brian Garrish’s kitchen, the three of us!

Brian Garrish: Yes.

David Scott: Squeezed in quite narrowly. And we were talking about how dire 2017 had been compared to 2016, which was an absolute hoot!

Woes: Yes. Yeah, it’s strange, because in different years have different pluses and minuses. And 2016 had been a hoot. But 2017 was a big year for dissidence. It was a very good year for that kind of thing. But the world was clearly getting darker. I mean, Trump had got elected, and the Syria stuff had started. Which had immediately ended the honeymoon period for Trump.

But anyway, I would like to ask you, … I mean, clearly the world has transformed since then. It feels like a different age. When I think about 2017, I was doing very well on YouTube. Since then everything has darkened [chuckling] in terms of the online world! The online world, social media, has become a system for control, rather than a system for freedom of speech.

So would any of you like to talk about that.

Brian Garrish: Well, if I may, I’ll respond to that straight away and say that if you’re still on YouTube you’re doing well. Because, of course, the UK Column was banned from YouTube a few months ago.

Woes: And I was banned in February [chuckling]

Brian Garrish: Okay. Well you beat us to it. Then well done! But perhaps I’m allowed to just add. And if your viewers and listeners would like to know why we were banned, it’s, because we put up a audio testimony of a lady whose husband had suffered from neurological damage after having the vaccine. Guillain-Barre syndrome. And he’d ultimately been paralyzed from the neck down. So we just simply broadcast her testimony. Which was very quiet, very measured, but very emotional. And that produced us a ban on YouTube. And then I think it was sees.

David Scott: A little wrinkle to that story, actually, was we didn’t get immediately banned. The video was up, the offended video was up for about three weeks. It was then picked up by Conservative Woman, who we suspect is read by Tory Central Office. They did a transcript of the piece and linked to our video. Then we got banned.

Brian Garrish: Then we got banned. And then a few weeks later the Daily Mail ran exactly the same story. And the key the key part of the story was that when this unfortunate gentleman suffered the vaccine adverse reactions, he went on to a ward where the doctors diagnosed it as a adverse vaccine reaction. It was diagnosed as Guillain-Barre syndrome. And there were at least six other men on the ward all with similar neurological damage. When the Daily Mail printed the story it was acceptable, but the UK Column having broadcast that story months, well month and a bit, weeks earlier, we were banned.

Alex Thompson: There was a time Brian when we were actually, I think a year and a half ahead of The Daily Telegraph on one of the Covid stories. I forget which one.

[05:10]

Brian Garrish: Yes. Well there’s been a number.

David Scott: That was Sage. And the Sage minutes that described how they were going to increase people’s sense of personal risk in order to control their behaviour. I think that was it.

Brian Garrish: Yeah.

Alex Thompson: And at that point, of course, The Daily Telegraph had to come out with it, because Laura Dodsworth had written a whole book on this theme, State of Fear. In which she never gives attribution to UK Column. But I think clearly she’d read us quite thoroughly, because she was in every UK Column talking point in that book.

Woes: This is quite remarkable that you could get punished. How many subscribers did the YouTube channel have?

Alex Thompson: We were just shy of a hundred grand so we didn’t quite get our silver album! I think perhaps they were minded not to give us that.

Woes: Yeah. I think a lot of people get frozen at about 90, 95, 96, 98, and mysteriously never make it to one hundred thousand! That’s happened to a lot of people, that I remember. Yeah, that’s a big loss. I’m sorry for that. My own channel I think had 57,000, I think it was at the end. But what’s incredible about all of this is that there is no way to put it to YouTube that what they banned you for is something that, did you say the Daily Mail?

Brian Garrish: Daily Mail, yeah.

Woes: Daily Mail reported a few weeks later. There’s no way to reason with them and say:

“Can’t you see that you’ve done something irrational, and unfair?”

This is something that as a feature of this age is these massive, monolithic, corporations that you cannot reason with. I think that’s a big characteristic of this, I think.

David Scott: Like UK Column, we’ve also had run-ins with Twitter [Woes laughs]. I’m a Twitter refugee as well. I got banned from Twitter.

And the first strike I got, I was actually doing it in real time. Because I was on the UK Column news and Mike had organized, … There’s a database that the government put out, called the Yellow Card System, which reports on vaccine adverse reactions. And it was basically, if it was a pencil written ledger faxed to somebody, and then scanned, and then put up, it would have it wouldn’t have been any more crude! It was basically an Excel spreadsheet. And it was almost impossible to find anything!

So we got all the information out of this, and put a front end on. So you could search for things that you could understand. You could say, okay, headaches, or pains, or leg pain, or problems with eyes, or whatever it was.

Alex Thompson: It had manufacturers.

David Scott: Yeah!

Brian Garrish: Well should we just focus a bit on this. One thing I’d like to say is the other member of the team is Mike Robinson, who’s not here. And I’d like to give him a mention, because it was Mike Robinson and his team that actually built the database, the searchable database for the Yellow Card data.

But I think your audience would want to know that the official figures from the MHRA that’s the UK’s Medicines and Health Products Regulatory Agency. It collects data on vaccine adverse reactions. And the total to date is one million, fourteen thousand, six hundred and thirty nine [1,014,639] recorded adverse reactions. And total fatalities one thousand eight hundred and twenty two [1,822].

And those figures should be considered, bearing in mind that the MHRA was prepared to admit that probably less than 10 percent of adverse reactions got recorded. And probably down to about two to four percent of serious adverse effects. So that isn’t the UK Column’s data. That is the Government, the UK Government’s official data!

But the MHRA provided that data in a very clumsy system that was very difficult to search. And so Mike Robinson and the team built this amazing front end to allow people to search the government’s own data. But this is where we are, with vaccine adverse effects in UK.

[10:15]

David Scott: And so my Twitter ban, my first Twitter strike, suspension, came. Mike had created this website. It took nothing but the government’s own data and simply made it searchable. I thought that’s fantastic! And I tweeted it out, whilst we were live on air. And whilst we’re live on there, about five minutes later, I got a message to say my Twitter account been closed down.

Brian Garrish: For medical misinformation, was it David? I can’t remember what they viewed.

David Scott: They came up with a few explanations as to why they cancelled me. But yeah, that was the main one.

Woes: Yeah, it’s just so incredible! The medical misinformation from the UK Government’s own data! [chuckling]

Brian Garrish: Yeah. But it actually makes sense, because I’m going to be very direct here, and say. If people want to know how the scam works. The scam is very simple. The MHRA collects data which is recorded on vaccine adverse reactions. So it sucks all that data in. It does print it on sheets which are very difficult to view and analyze. But it does produce that data.

But there’s then no risk assessment, no analysis, done on the data which it has collected. So the MHRA – and June Raine [sp] is the chief executive, who’s usually the spokesperson. She’s the one who constantly says:

“Well, the vaccines are working! They’re safe! Benefits outweigh the risks!”

But the scam is that they’ve never investigated their own data on the risks! Even though we’ve got over 1, 800 people dead! And over a million adverse effects!

Alex Thompson: We better tell the audience that the buck doesn’t stop there, because we like to use our research skills in which Mike, who’s not with us this evening, is supreme on the statistical side. But we all have our contributions to make.

We have found that the MHRA only poses as the data owner. Actually, the decisions clinically have to be made – as far as we now understand – by a doctor Pierre Mohammed. Perhaps you might want to add something about him Brian?

Brian Garrish: Well yes this is the Commission on Human Medicines, which is another part of this soup of organizations which the UK government claims are looking after our health and well-being and safety, as far as vaccinations are concerned.

So that gentleman is the head of the commission on Human Medicines. And that organization holds ultimate responsibility for vaccine safety. But they never speak out. You never hear them say anything it’s always, I’ll say, delegated back down the line to June Raine from MHRA. So there’s a little system.

And it works by the fact that there’s lots of good words about who is working hard to protect us from any possible vaccine damage. But the reality is that they never act on any of the information that they’ve got! What they are doing on a hour-by-hour, day-by-day basis, is working with the pharmaceutical companies.

And this is to such an extent that, if you look at the MHRA board meetings which you can find on YouTube, listed as MHRA board meetings. I’m afraid I’ve forgotten her name. But one of the members of the board has allegiance to Bill and Melinda Gates and their organization. So there is no independence in the MHRA whatsoever! !

And it’s primary function is to help develop the pharmaceutical industry world-wide, and to increase their profits.

Alex Thompson: I think what we’re getting at is there are some surprising, maybe not so surprising, similarities between how this scam is operated and how in previous events, or reporting that we’re known for, establishment complicity in child abuse is covered up. A lot of buck passing! And a lot of leaving local, or better known faces, to face the music. To leaving councils, in that case, to sink, or swim.

And in this case, as Brian describes, there is a line right up to the Secretaries of State, who never seem to take responsibility for anything. I think one of the best quotable quotes from last year’s Millennial, Colin, was Godfrey Bloom, when he came on.

And he was speaking about Britain’s then Secretary of State for Health before his fandango with his assistant. Which, of course, may have been me on sen, in order to shuffle him off to his next technocratic post. But anyway, he was Health Secretary at that point as you recall. And Godfrey Bloom memorably told you in Millenniyule 2020:

“At the investment bank I used to work for, Hancock wouldn’t even got in to clean the bloody cars. And it doesn’t help that he looks like a child molester!”

So again [chuckling] people are noticing, comparisons, between different establishment scandals.

[15:43]

Woes: Yeah, indeed! I think that when I first discovered UK Column it was, if I recall correctly, it was to do with, … You see. This is an interesting historical comparison. I think I’d like to bring Brian in here on this. There was the world of the 2000s, in the late 2000s. I think that that was when and the smoking ban came in. And there was that the climate change thing was going on. They were trying to sell it then.

And then I became aware of UK Column, or Brian Garrish, as an individual, at that time, because of the Common Purpose phenomenon.

Brian could you sort of draw a line between Common Purpose and that culture in the late 2000s, to Covid now?

Brian Garrish: Well. I’m going to say for me this is a very easy thing to do. Let’s deal with what we’re up against at the moment. Of course, a lot of people are focused on the, we’ll call it, the hard facts of vaccines whatever you think about Covid.

Let’s assume that there is some form of fluid type virus around. And it’s severe enough that if you’re vulnerable and elderly you can die. And the response of the government is to say that we’re all going to be injected with a pharmaceutical product. That’s hard reality.

But there’s something else that’s going on. And we can call it “propaganda”, because there is a massive, massive, propaganda exercise, control of the media, going on in order to facilitate everything around Covid-19 and lockdown vaccinations.

But alongside the propaganda that we can see as the adverts in the paper or, for example, that absolutely disgraceful broadcast that Boris Johnson gave to the nation last night. Pitiful broadcast!

Alongside that type of propaganda, we’ve got something much deeper. And that is the use of applied behavioural psychology to change the way people think and behave. And the track for that psychology, if viewers, listeners want somewhere easy to start, they should simply search online for a document called Mindspace that’s M-I-N-D-S-P-A-C-E, all one word, mindspace dot PDF.

And if you search for that you’ll find the British Cabinet Office document, dated 2010. And if you go, I suggest you read it all, you should, because it’s important. But if you go to the bottom of page 66, there is a paragraph which says:

“That we the British government can change the way people think and behave, and they will not even know this has happened, or if they realize their behaviour has changed, they will not know how it was done.”

Now this is very dangerous applied psychology, which is now fully in the hands of the British government, via essentially the Behavioural Insights Team which was an integral part of the cabinet office. But this was the type of a plate behavioural psychology which Common Purpose was using in order to reframe it’s so-called “future leaders”..

So when I look back to the work that I did in the very, very early 2000s, and a little bit before when I was aware of Common Purpose, and I was tracking what was happening with them, they were choosing people in all sectors of society, … Could be public sector schools, businesses, police, military, NHS, even within Parliament. And those people were being gently “reframed” to hold new values.

So Common Purpose was effectively the Trojan horse that was putting it’s people in positions apparent influence across the whole fabric of government and our society.

And. So when we march through the 2000s, let’s take ourselves into somewhere like 2010, 2012, what you can see is these chosen leaders are the people who are the ones helping to facilitate all of the policy that we can now see is being used to enact everything to do with Covid and the vaccines.

[20:37]

Woes: I could I just interrupt? I should have explained for the audience that Common Purpose was ostensibly a management training organization. When was it founded? I think it was, …

Brian Garrish:1985. Is when Julia Middleton the then chief executive, said. That it was formed. And her story is that she’d been over in America, and previously she’d worked for The Industrial Society, which is a so-called “think tank”.

But she’d then been in America. I believe she was in Chicago and working with the “Chicago Set”, i.e., Barack Obama’s roots. And she discovered this wonderful system. And then she came back to UK.

And she said she was able to raise a large sum of money through a number of banks. She would never disclose which banks. But we know Deutsche Bank was one of them. And then all of a sudden Common Purpose popped up everywhere in the country! To train thousands, and thousands, of these future leaders.

So it called itself a charity. But it’s whole basis was political. And indeed at one stage they were actually operating out of the office of the Deputy Prime Minister when John preScott was having his dalliances in Westminster.

Woes: You see, this is, … Sorry I muted you Alex just because there’s background noise. But you can unmute yourself. But let me get into, …

Alex Thompson: Thank you. Thanks for that. Just, at this point, in the narrative, she came back in 85. But I have her pamphlet from 1981 published in Britain entitled “Quality Circles” and published under her maiden name. And the point of that was she doesn’t give details on which American industrialists and Chicago satanists gave her orders. But it basically says:

“The plebs produce poor work in Britain. And in order to get them to do as they’re told, they’re going to have to engage in struggle sessions. Sit in circles and tell each other what they did wrong this week.”

That was the founding idea.

Brian Garrish: That’s reframing. Doing that is starting to get people to talk in that way in front of other people, is reframing.

Woes: Yeah. And so I think. One of the reasons this is significant is there’s one theory of what’s going on? Now. Is that it’s a decentralized, just sort of amorphous, social force, social consensus, that has a thousand ways of reinforcing itself.

But I think Common Purpose indicates that actually this is quite top-down. It’s quite coordinated. I mean, it results in a social consensus, well whatever, a managerial consensus. But it’s created in the first place, generated, in a very deliberated way. A very conscious way! And, of course, there’s a lot of effort and a huge amount of funding that goes into make making that happen.

And in the case of Common Purpose you’ve got an organization that, … I should have said this at the start. In the 2000s it became apparent. And I think this was, because of New Labour largely, but maybe it pre-existed that. There was a lot of movement between large corporations, government, charities, NGOs, people would show up, …

I mean, a good example since then would be Nick Clegg, who was first in I think in the EU, then he was a British national politician. And now he’s working at Facebook. He’s very high up at Facebook. I mean, that’s a perfect career!

Alex Thompson: Actually, what happened in Scotland in the same time frame was a bit the other way around. But with the same results in the end. Because people came in from US-based globalist think tanks. And a few I think from big tech. David might know more than I do.

But then with the sudden and unexpected collapse of the Labour vote in Scotland, and the SNP forming a government in 2007 with an ideological vacuum, other than blaming the English, this created the perfect opportunity for people to be brought in.

Many of them were actually from Mandarin lives south of the border. Sir David Elvich [sp] who became the top civil servant in ScotGov, the Scottish government in the early SNP period.

Bill Alexander, the Englishman who ended up running the Child Department at Highland Council, pioneering the Named Person Scheme. And some of these people if I’m not mistaken, David, have gone into financial situations after their time in government, thus being exactly the opposite of what was happening in England at the time.

[25:34]

David Scott: I mean, Sir John Elvich was, of course, Common Purpose to the core! He was a Common Purpose supremo! He was taken by Common Purpose to take the message of the charity to Hong Kong, once he was finished running Scotland.

And his big innovation was the Scottish model of government, which had been running for about seven years by the time I found out it existed. And that was no departmental boundaries. It’s one organization.

And when you factor in the Common Purpose approach, which is networks of informal influence. And people operating beyond their authority, you end up with a very dangerous situation where you can see what’s being done.

But there’s no clarity to as to who is actually responsible for anything. And there’s no clarity as to who makes the decisions, and who sets the policy. It becomes this iceberg-like mass moving slowly across society, and taking all before it! That’s what they’re trying to achieve.

Woes: That’s an excellent point. Thank you for because that’s a very good summary of what this actually does. And I think the phrase “leading beyond authority”, was that not the title of her book, Julia Middleton’s book?

Alex Thompson: Right.

Woes: Could either any of you give a summary of what that actually implies, “leading beyond authority”? Because obviously it’s going to cause a lot of fuzziness about, as you just said David, about who did what, who’s responsible for this, who should be appealed to, who should be persuaded, top down, leading beyond it.

Alex Thompson: That is probably one for Brian. But Brian in your answer don’t forget to mention, the unification of Cornwall Council. Because that’s a good nutshell example of how even elected councillors are told we have cabinet responsibility, which has the same effect. Nobody’s responsible for anything, just as in the Scottish model of government. All the ministers act as one.

Brian Garrish: Well yeah, that’s certainly part of it. I think I might just come in a little bit below that, if you like. And say what Common Purpose did, is that once it got itself established in a city, it would seek out people of influence, people that it thought were worthy of coming into its courses. And then it would mix groups of people.

So in a Common Purpose course you might have somebody from the local police, somebody from a couple of schools, somebody from the local council. And they would all be invited to talk on various subjects about their own job, in the first instance. And the other members, of course, would find this interesting. And they would learn from that. But what they were doing with the people is saying:

“Well here you are as a group of people. You’ve come together. You’re not in your normal professional role. And we can now throw problems at you. And ask you how you would solve them.”

So, what is happening very subtly is that you’re taking people outside the boundaries of their own expertise and their own professional limitations.

If we focused on a police officer that would make life quite simple for us. But now in this new group of people they start to have a look at how they would solve problems of crime in the city, or how they would deal with problems of health within the city. And with the addition of some nice evenings out, and people being able to sit down eat together, and have a drink together, teamwork forms amongst this group of people.

And they form the view that they now have the ability to work – I’m deliberately going to use this phrase – “outside their existing professional silos”. This is the expression by Julia Middleton. They’re going to come outside their “silos” and work with other people they don’t usually work with, in order to solve problems.

And then Common Purpose stirs the pot and helps this process by linking together people that have been trained with Common Purpose courses, so that they continue to work unseen across the city.

And the best example I can give of this was that in Plymouth at one stage I’d never heard of Common Purpose, then I discover it. Then I discover it’s prevalent in a lot of organizations and professions in Plymouth. But I then discovered that people who were sat alongside me in the chamber of commerce were Common Purpose trained. But they never mentioned it. But what they were doing unseen.

And the Daily Mail when it printed its 11 pages on Common Purpose, described it as a quasi-Masonic organization. And what they were getting at was the Common Purpose people liaised with each other unseen! So you’ve created a group of people who believe they’ve been selected as future leaders. And that they are now going to be working to solve problems outside of the limitations of their normal professional job.

It’s a very clever, very devious, system!

[31:28]

Woes: Hold on a second David. I just want to get this clarified. Because some people would say that actually sounds like a good idea to blend different people’s expertise, their experience, the attitude that each one has adopted in his profession. He can give in fresh insights to someone else in some other profession. So it’s new ways of thinking about problems. Some people would say that sounds good.

Brian Garrish: Well they could say that. And I could go so far as to say:

“Yep! There are some positive elements in doing that.”

However, when you start to see the Common Purpose documents showing, for example, that where they set up Advisory Boards, and in a city when they’d got people that they knew they’d got them as Common Purpose graduates as for future leaders.

And these people had some gravitas in their position. Maybe they were the chief executive of the local council. Maybe they were quite a senior policeman in the local police force. They put these people on what they called Common Purpose Advisory Boards.

And those Advisory Boards would then seek out the next people to be trained. But the point I really want to make is that we were able to show documentation where Common Purpose was telling the local police Common Purpose advisory board member what they were to do.

And they were also, particularly in local authorities, telling the Common Purpose graduate, that they’d obtained, to help them seek funding from the council in order to train more people.

Why can I be very confident about this? Because I have a very old website, but the data is still exactly absolutely correct. The website is called cpexposed.com. And if you go onto that website there’s a database system where you can search for documents. And you can read the actual documents that we were able to obtain, now many years ago. But they still show the evidence where Common Purpose was absolutely using people in very important positions, chief executives in local authorities, in the NHS, police.

They were even getting into military camps to do training. Which I found astonishing! And Common Purpose was instructing their graduate within the police, or the NHS, or the local authority, to do their bidding.

Woes: In other words, these graduates, these members of Common Purpose, are, regardless of their profession, in some sense they are working for Common Purpose, even in their day-to-day lives.

Brian Garrish: Yes.

Alex Thompson: Yes! Yes! Absolutely! I looked up the string “GCHQ”, my former employer, Britain’s signals intelligence agency, on Brian’s website cpxposed.com. And I found three names to my astonishment where two were people that I knew. Well, one personally, and one by repute on the staff news groups.

And both of these two had been initially on message with the thinking of most of the staff. And sometime in the mid 2000s which I think correlated with when Brian had records of them being trained and becoming a graduate of Common Purpose, they became under a bit relentingly hostile to the old ethos of GCHQ!

[35:08]

Woes: That’s incredible! So did you actually witness that?

Alex Thompson: Yes! And it wasn’t just my personal impression. In one of the cases the person who had taken this course at GCHQ and become a Common Purpose graduate, was described by at least two of my other very solid older colleagues as a “changed person”. As not the person they were before. A new set of values attacking their old person, their old self.

Woes: Wow. That’s so sinister. David can I bring you back into ask to answer the question of what is meant by leading beyond authority? And you can talk about Scotland though.

David Scott: Yeah yes this is sort of putting in there a moment ago. This is what I was going to say is. You raised the issue about the link between Common Purpose and the Covid policy.

Woes: Yes.

David Scott: And this is the link in my view is the whole concept of leading beyond authority. Because we have well in Scotland we’ve got Devi Sridhar. And I understand that Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t, or at least, wouldn’t do a thing on Covid policy without Devi Sridhar.

Devi Sridhar is 37 years old. She is an Indian-American. She’s a Rhodes scholar. And she’s written a book called Governing Global Health with Chelsea Clinton.

But she’s making decisions that alter society! She’s deciding when the economy closes down! She’s deciding when children can see faces of adults! She’s deciding when people can go to school, children could go to school. She’s deciding when you can go to a hospital to see your elderly relative. She’s deciding everything about how we operate! Based on what? Where’s the authority? It’s so far beyond the authority you can’t see it!

And there is a requirement for an almost unbelievable amount of arrogance to think that you can organize society, based on either a niche bit of information, because you’ve done some work in epidemiology, or you’ve done perhaps some rather badly executed computer programming. And you have a model that’s predicting the future course of pandemics. And that makes you somehow qualified to instruct the world, or the nation, on everything!

Alex Thompson: And I have a nice update on this. I have a nice update on this, David. Because when you were on UK Column news today, as you always are on Mondays, one of the segments was about Boris Johnson getting at Number 10 Downing Street an equivalent of Devi Sridhar. Someone to tell him what to do.

And it’s a chap called Dan Rosenfield. Who had an incredible and improbable rise from being a German graduate, or a graduate in the German language, to being a Treasury bod. And here’s the link. The New Statesman, as we quoted today, is tapping up former colleagues for what this Dan Rosenfield is going to be “The Enforcer”, as he’s called, at Downing Street. The man without whom Boris Johnson:

“Will not sleep, yea will not wake.”

And this is it.:

“The former treasury colleague says the truth is that Number 10 has not yet recovered from the tragic early death of Sir Jeremy Hayward, the last enforcer. Dan Rosenfield is potentially a worthy successor to Jeremy. He is somebody who understands morale, maths, markets, M16, and M15. If you’re looking for somebody who can operate well in the deep centre, Dan Rosenfield has got the full package.”

End of quote. I’ve never heard of the “deep centre” before. I thought we were supposed to be on top of these things. But that shows you something. And then in the next paragraph in their own rubric the new statesmen add that what the deep centre means is:

“The most important decision-making across the institutions of government.”

And The New Statesman says that:

“Rosenfield’s knowledge of this deep centre is considered his greatest asset.”

Woes: Would one way to characterize this be that it’s the sort of clandestine implementation of a technocracy?

Alex Thompson: Yes!

Woes: All right! [chuckling] Okay.

David Scott: A managerial state. The idea that democracy for all of its flaws means you have some control, has been, that’s gone! But it’s been removed very subtly.

[40:00]

Alex Thompson: So yeah, you’ve done a lot of reading David of the golden, well not, anti-golden period around 1948. One of the many books that came out this year. And it’s been touted in the Dutch Parliaments – I live in the Netherlands here now, so I know this – is a book by James Burnham in the US called The Managerial State, just about this. And the subtitle when it was first published is What is Happening in the World Today.

So Burnham, who is no sloucher, thought. This was a key thing about the post-war world. And the institutions were many of them especially in Britain forged in that year 1948. It was the go ahead for technocracy.

Woes: And so it’s almost embarrassing that we’re only catching up with it, and defining it.

Alex Thompson: We were the first. We were the first two, or three years ago to discover a memorandum from I think the third, or fourth of January, 1948. Have I got the date, right? Just after the New Year break, or during it, Prime Minister Clement Atlee dictated a memo:

“Saying Britain is going to invent something called European Military Union.”

Nobody reported on that, for decades! Until we did in 2018, 2019, I think gentlemen.

Brian Garrish: Yeah.

Woes: European Military Union, would that be the start of the EU?

Alex Thompson: Well yes, that’s the whole point. It was these guys need military union therefore we’re going to have to invent a political pretext for it.

So we’re going to in the first instance tell Benelux to start existing. Because the Belgians and Dutch had been often former foes. But the Belgians, Dutch, and Luxembourgers were told once their government in exile returned, at end of the war:

“If you want any Marshall Plan money you’re going to have to become a quasi-unified state with no customs borders between you.”

And then that was then spun out to the whole EU

Woes: Right? So there’s the sort of artificial merging of States. So that they’re more managerially convenient.

Alex Thompson: That’s exactly it. Yeah. Sorry about the clock chiming in the background I’ve just muted most of that. But that’s exactly what it is. Well the long history of technocracy preferring to work at a European level.

But the key thing is, it came out of Manhattan, and the City of London. There’s no aspects of European unification after the war, that –. And I’ve been burying my nose in continental documents as long as I’ve been over here. Like I’ve never found anything in French, German, Italian, or Dutch, which suggests that the original six members of the EEC. Well, let’s remove Germany and Italy, because they were the foes, right?

But let’s say the continental allies, right? So France and Benelux, there’s no evidence that they innately and genuinely wished for any kind of union on any level!

That Jean Monet was, as reported widely in books such as The Great Deception by Booker and North, was widely – and including by De Gaul – correctly understood to be an Anglo-American stooge with bad debts to, should we say Deep State companies. In his case, the Hudson’s Bay company. But it’s just one of the many tentacles of the old money in the City.

Woes: Gosh! There’s so much to know isn’t there’s? So much to find out! And I can just imagine a dense fabric of deals, and organizations, and bribery, blackmail.

Alex Thompson: Yeah. The Italians were co-opted pretty soon. There wasn’t much bribery needed they just took old unreformed commies like Alberto Spinelli who has rooms in his honour at the European Parliament these days.

And Antonio Gramsci. He hasn’t got any suite of rooms named after him in Brussels. But he was of the same era. And down at the Italian end they were just openly writing:

“We need to do this to overturn the Patriarchy.”

But in France and Benelux, it was a bit more dressed up as:

“We won’t be able to suck the teat of Anglo-American investment. If we don’t do this.”

Woes: Right. So what? And this is a very sort of open question. What is the top level of this web, as it were? I mean,

Alex Thompson: Brian. And I have answered this enough times in our own words in previous interviews. I’ve never heard David go for that one. So I’m very intrigued what he might say!

Woes: Because obviously just to introduce this. You can talk about the manager of a leisure centre in Nottingham. That would be the bottom level. But then you go up through the echelons. And do we end at the EU? Do we end at the British national level? Do we end at the UN? What? How high [chuckling] does it go?

Alex Thompson: We can’t enter the UN. I’ll say this before I hand over to David. We can’t enter the UN, because we know who created the UN. It was created on privately owned land in San Francisco, in an irregularly and not according to international law, in an irregularly called meeting.

And it was not really the diplomatic envoys that got it going. It was a wartime slogan that the allies had become the United Nations as of 1943. Which Roosevelt was already talking about. So, well, over to David. He’s looked into this more deeply.

[45:12]

David Scott: Well, I don’t know about that! I find this one of the hardest questions. I think the Column finds this one of the hardest questions. Where does the instructions actually come from? Because it’s manifestly not the people you’re seeing.

At a low level I had the pleasure of going along to an SNP Yes Movement meeting in Perth. At the Salutation Hotel some years ago. And I went there just to ask some questions and see what would happen. And it was remarkable, because it was all tactics, they were getting people geed up for the next independence referendum. This would be about 2016, 17, I think.

So they thought we’re going to go again, and clearly there was a tactic. The tactic was we’re going to do just what we did the last time, but the Labour Party is collapsing so we’ll win this time. That was it. They didn’t go any further than that.

And all the discussion was mobilizing the troops, who would go where, how would get people out in the street, how would get little shops set up, and street stalls, and badges, and things. But there was no ideas. And I found this very funny. So I asked them, you know:

“What’s the policy relating to Scottish independence? And where does the policy come from?”

And there was a kind of embarrassed silence in the top table. And they said:

“Well you might try common [word unclear].”

Really? So they actually had no idea where the policies were coming from. And that problem is visible at national cabinet level, as well. So it doesn’t reside there.

So when you go to the World Bank, the World Economic Forum, the World Health Organization, some of the UN bodies time trying to get closer to it. But it’s not quite there either.

Alex Thompson: When you get it to the Bank for International Settlements, you’re getting perhaps closer.

David Scott: A wee bit closer.

Alex Thompson: But then above them, because they own the central banks, that own the banks, and et cetera, et cetera. And, of course, the level above that is what’s interesting. Hedge funds, and private investors.

The same people who set up the world’s first Central Banks, the Bank of Sweden, the Bank of England, the Bank of Scotland, the Bank of France, the same clubs around 1700.

These people turn out to be closely guarded lists of shareholders, right? So they are both acting above and below the level of the banks. And they are signaling often in their dummy run exercises and their think pieces and their think tanks, what is going to be the policy at the level David just mentioned, like the World Health Organization.

But there’s clearly capture of many of these organizations. Anything like that calls itself the World Health Organization, or the American Medical Association, sounds like it is a conclave of the best minds. In that case, the discipline of medicine. But they are bought and paid for. We know the date and format, for example, in which David Rockefeller bought up, or the Rockefeller clan of his age, of that time, brought up the AMA. In fact, called it into existence.

And likewise Gates have played that role with regard to the WHO and got it diplomatic status in Switzerland.

So you’re looking to a small number of old money families.

David Scott: When you say Gates and you say Rockefeller, you’re immediately talking about the tax exempt foundations, right? And the Dodds Report that gives you information about that.

So that level of control of big money, where the people who actually made the money, are long gone. But there are people who control it. And who have agendas. And the agendas are very difficult to get at.

And then you’ve got the question what makes the agenda? And then you’re getting into criminality, sometimes satanism, sometimes various forms of belief, you’re getting into the spiritual war.

And ultimately, my view is that’s ultimately the battle you’re fighting. It’s principalities and powers. It’s not any easily identified human organization.

Woes: Thank you. That is a very interesting answer. Brian, would you like to have a go at this question?

[50:00]

Brian Garrish: Well I’m gonna say I fully support where we’ve just got to. But I just like to put in an intermediate step. And that if we saw, if we’re happy with the concept, the Common Purpose established itself in order to choose future leaders, which it recruited, it trained, it then let loose in order to seed and propagate its own agenda, we can move up the ladder to somewhere like the World Economic Forum. Where we’ve got Klaus Schwab running an organization that is selecting global leaders.

And today on the UK Column news we mentioned a website which has got a very good list of names which I took the trouble just to call up the website. It’s called Tara Blue which is that-A-R-A-B-L-U-E Tara blue, dot com. And you will find on that website very nice list of all the world leaders who have actually been recruited and trained through Klaus Schwab’s World Economic Forum system.

So we can now show that across the world in all sorts of different countries, we’ve got leaders, political leaders, or leaders within corporations, or foundations, who have been trained through the World Economic Forum system.

So we can see Klaus Schwab, we can understand a bit about him, because we can read what he is happy to declare about himself. But really we have to ask a question. Who put Klaus Schwab in the position he’s in? Who provides him with the money to enable him to do what he’s doing?

And very quickly we’ve moved from the World Economic Forum, global leaders, through to the fact that the people who control that must be people who also control money.

And it’s the same with Bill Gates. You can look at Bill Gates and say:

“Well Bill Gates is a very powerful man.”

Well he is by what he does on the ground. But actually if he’s got billions squirreled away in bank accounts, the people who own Bill Gates are the people who control his bank accounts.

So it’s very easy to climb up the pyramid. And it has to be the people that control the money who are at the top.

But I think the weakness that, I’ll say many of us, because I used to fall into the same trap. What happens with people is they then just focus on the money people that we know. So they will talk about Rothschilds, or the Rockefellers.

But I’m going to say that the trouble with that, is that they are people we see. I think the people for really inventing the policy and driving it through, are people who have immense financial control within these private banking systems.

But we don’t even know who their names are.

Alex Thompson: I’ll give a stab. I’ll tell you in general terms. And I said this in. One of my most popular talks at Alternative View, when I talked about the bloodlines, and the history of the world. There’s said to be 13 families, often called satanic bloodlines. And Rothschild and Rockefeller are often called number one. And number two on that list.

But every time I’ve mentioned that. And I think the authors of the concept, as well Robin [word unclear] and Fritz Springmeier would be quick to add this. I always add these other visible guys, as Brian was just saying. Above and beyond them, you have got basically in the part of the world I’m in now. From about the North Sea down to northern Italy, which has always been the linchpin of European and world economic progress. And where the monopolies and the cabals hang out.

That’s where you’ve got the really old families that shun publicity. They tend to have French, or Italian names although some of them migrated to what’s now Germany, during the Middle Ages. And some of the names that keep popping up there are Orcini, Alavichini, Hazer, Breakspear, an English name, as a family that supplied England’s one and only Pope in history. And also some of the minor, now minor seeming, Bavaria in princely dynasties. That area of the world. Switzerland and Austria is right in the middle of it too. But Belgium and southern Netherlands as well.

Those families are to this day where you find the de facto monopoly. For example, there’s a big five set of companies that control most of the primary food supply in the world, certainly grain. And to this day, even though the US and Canada and Russia supply far, far more grain in other parts of the world, obviously. Look at the map. The companies that make sure that food gets sold, ultimate ownership of those companies, is still in the continent of Europe.

Not even the City of London. So we’re looking a bit more closely there.

And with regard to that, I don’t want to get into the debate about the Jesuits. But it’s interesting that some of the people who were at the very top of Britain’s, let’s have war with Russia agenda, a couple of years ago. People who were as I found out pulling the strings of the top foreign office experts on Russia and neighbouring countries at the time I was in service.

David did some personal digging, because some of them turned out to be registered to a disused mill just down the road from him. And we found an undue prevalence didn’t we David of Irish-Catholic priests, and strange things going on in the leadership of the thought of what of these groups.

Like the Integrity Initiative. And again, I’m quick to add, I’m not saying the Roman Catholic Church is the top layer. But this is again, old money, Vatican area, Central, or Western Europe. That seems to be where all the nodes come together before we lose track of them.

[56:12]

David Scott: Well the Integrity Initiative was an interesting diversion over the last, what 2019, 2020, sort of area? Just before Covid. And it was an organization with very little substance and a great deal of influence. And it was made up of a former NATO official. A businessman with a very interesting past, and the ability to get spirited out of places like Beirut quite quickly, who was probably some sort of spook, secret service. And a former Roman Catholic priest who was then running a charity to bring peace, love, and harmony to the Middle East.

And they decided that what they were going to do was sort out the narrative with respect to Russia. And get involved in all forms of communication and shaping the narrative. And whether they originated, or whether they were repeating, they were going over ideas which we were finding were being pirated in the top of the British army, the top of United States, Air Force, Navy.

Alex Thompson: They got in one day, in one day, they got Major Pedro Banos, a very fine Spanish officer, sacked, just at the time his candidacy was announced, or his selection was announced to be Spain’s new National Security Advisor. Simply through pulling strings with their own people and the press. But go on David.

David Scott: And what they were saying was concepts like:

“Peace and war is not a binary.”

You could never be entirely at peace, or entirely at war. That’s old-fashioned thinking! Like men women, I suppose. But that’s old-fashioned thinking! Everything, you’re always at war in a funny kind of way! And everything that your country does and is, is part of that war. So your industry, okay. Your culture, your churches, your belief system, your education system, everything! The degree to which your population will be obedient to the state, that’s a weapon of war!

Everything is a weapon of war! And it’s live and it’s active. And we have to be aggressive. And we have to be going out. And we have to be defeating these pesky Russians in this battle of ideas.

And it looks like the sort of tactics that the Soviet Union were running to destabilize the West. We were running to destabilize Russia.

Alex Thompson: And there’s a closer link than that actually. Because the very successful and little talked about German equivalent of GCHQ in the Third Reich. It was the [word unclear], literally the Research Bureau. And all it’s best tricks such as plotting what the population was thinking, and shifting the Overton window, went hook line and sinker over to a private corporation, the Mitre Corporation on the West coast of the US. Which is a big NSA data holder, and contractor.

And one of the GCHQ heroes of the war, Golden Welchman. And we know this is genuine, because he unexpectedly got prosecuted for it by the FBI in the States, with the Brits leaning on him. So genuine disclosure. He, in all innocence, at the end of his career in the late 70s, wrote it, The Hutt Six Story, is the name of his book, on my part in deciphering Nazi codes.

[60:12]

And the last chapter which is probably what he really got persecuted for, because when the book was reissued it was taken out. Is one in which he gayly says:

“Yes well from now on the enemy is the domestic population. There’s going to be this thing called domestic extremists. And that’s where the enemy is going to pop up. So we have to be ever vigilant and monitor the totality of telecoms.”

So that that thinking comes right from both totalitarian models of the early 20th century. Which is yet one more indication that the thinking behind those models, I think, was neither German, nor Russian. But more at home in the City of London, and in Wall Street.

David Scott: And when you go around to, … What I said earlier on, that ultimately it’s a spiritual battle. If you view life as an extension of warfare. If you view there’s no possibility of peace with your fellow man, it’s just a different way of dominating him. If your view is that it’s ultimately a great big survival of the fittest Darwinist world, then that generates a certain society. That generates a certain way of treating your fellow man.

And it generates an atmosphere and the background where organizations like Common Purpose can thrive, because there is no alternative spiritual viewpoint to push back against them. Because It’s all just about survival, and competition, and some sort of social Darwinist process.

So:

“Where’s my advantage this week?”

There’s nothing, the finer points of life, the nobler ideals, these are viewed as irrelevant, or old-fashioned, or out of date, or.

Brian Garrish: Weak! Viewed as weak!

David Scott: Weak, yeah.

Alex Thompson: But a lot of them are British thinkers, because it’s Malthusianism. A lot of the best dissidents these days from clergymen, through to former bankers, are saying we’re up against Malthusianism, right?

But Thomas Malthus has a direct line through to Francis Galton, the cousin who basically ghost wrote, or whispered ideas to Darwin. Particularly on his less scientifically based social Darwinism site. Galton lived rather longer than Darwin, right until the eve of the First World War. And was a mate of the Huxley brothers! Whose father was quite a dodgy character in himself.

But Julian who wrote the charter for the World Health Organization, the only so-called UN body which has a constitution, by the way. Another example of how private money put things into operation and gave them the mandates.

And, of course, Aldous, who did it more in fiction, through Brave New World. They’re both saying:

“This is going to be the way of the world, from now on.”

So again, we’re back with a few rather disproportionately British, as well, old money families, saying that:

“Nature will be read in tooth and claw.”

Basically.

Woes: Well I suppose that brings us to Covid and the present era. I don’t even know how to approach this. Because there are so many things that have been said that could link to it. Let’s say that there is a programme to subdue the general public, and condition them for a certain future, in which. They will be much less numerous. Would that be accurate?

Brian Garrish: For me it would be. There’s a cull! There’s no question of the fact that very large numbers of people, certainly in UK but in other countries. But we can talk with confidence in UK. Large numbers of particularly elderly, vulnerable people have already been killed off.

[64:57]

Woes: And that’s even before we get to the vaccine. Because a lot of elderly people were killed off. Well. Let’s say that they died in 2020 through being stuffed into care homes. And so on.

[Transcript Quality from here 2/5 Stars]

Brian Garrish: Go just interject there? Sorry to do that. But I’m going to say no, actually well before that. Because the one of the key clues we got to what the real agenda was, is if we go to the Staff’s Hospital in UK, where it emerged that supposedly thousands of elderly people had died unnecessarily as a result of hospital procedures. But some time ago I was able to speak to a key individual who’d been part of the government’s initial investigation team into the Mid-Staff Hospital crisis. And they said to me. I was sat in their own home. They said to me that actually the investigation revealed that the numbers were not fifteen hundred two and a half thousand people who died in Mid-Staff. They were up in the 10, 11, 12, 13, 14,000 people! And similar levels of death were actually occurring in at least quote:

“10, or 11 hospitals.”

Alex Thompson: And. This was a good five, or six years before Covid.

Brian Garrish: Yeah, so this individual was talking up towards hundred thousand of elderly people who were dispatched.

Alex Thompson: And we were getting undertakers from various parts of Britain as well. Yeah I don’t understand your thunder. But this was also at the same time frame but go on.

Brian Garrish: Just before you go in that direction Alex. So this was happening in mid-staff’s hospital there was an inquiry team put together and they submitted a report exposing that this was the level of deaths which was much, much higher than the level being reported publicly. What then happened was a new team was brought in which subsequently Whitewashed the original report. And the reason that the particular individual got in contact with me was. Because the name of the new team that the government brought in to do that Whitewash was called the Common Purpose team. And that’s rather telling that was one incident but also, of course, we had the Liverpool care pathway running which was sold as being a way of giving people the so-called good death. But then it emerged that, of course, people were being killed via that system. And the reality that we see as a result of our own research and many good and detailed reports from people in the NHS is that the Liverpool care pathway never stopped. It continued although it was continuing undeclared as to what it was by name. So they didn’t use Liverpool care pathway. But they were definitely killing people. And then we arrived at the situation where we had the start of the Covid crisis where they knowingly discharged elderly people who had Covid who were in hospital beds they discharged them into care homes residential homes and locked them down with the other vulnerable elderly people. And, of course, the deaths, tens of thousands reported in the paper but the reality papers. But the reality is hundreds of thousands. Those deaths have been noted and recorded the Independent the express the Mirror even the Daily Mail has talked about this but nobody’s followed it through.

Alex Thompson: It’s so evident that Scotland’s corrupt crown office the monopoly prosecutor had to open a case against a care home on the isle of skye and poultry for that very culpability and in most cases the Crown office and similar continental monopoly state prosecutors will simply ditch the nearly half of their caseload that they don’t think is going to be easy to prove, or not politically opportune. But it was so blaringly obvious that they’ve run with it for quite a while at the Crown office other things that happened well before Covid mid — 2010s besides the things Brian mentioned were a string of undertakers from various parts of Britain talking to us about distressingly large numbers of elderly and children deceased coming to them in an emaciated state and we and a number of other free media outlets were broadcasting with face and voice unaltered at that time as well people who had left care homes talking about the deliberate dehydration whether it was called care pathway, or not, or just a bunch of thuggish carers within a local care home there was a deliberate withholding of water from people in care homes. And then by horrible things like giving the elderly foul water to drink and then saying ah you see she doesn’t want to drink. And we then went a step further and spoke to a gentleman in Chester Dr Mark Jones very well qualified and he’s never given up on his mother’s case who is speaking in quite lurid terms but without with the evidence about a bunch of bent lawyers [70:00] in towns like Chester no doubt up and down the country. But there’s a particular concentration there who managed to be in league with certain staff in their care homes to such an extent that the smothering by a pillow, or the dehydration magically happens just in the same time window of certain weeks when the legacy runs out. When there’s no more money to be milked from the system. So this was all in place well before Covid. And very similar things I can tell you have been going on for 20 years here in the Netherlands which is famous for being pioneers of things like euthanasia and Dr killing the doctor killing you. It’s just that there’s less speaking out over here. And I have to say even more fear of the doctor among the elderly over here, because there’s no they don’t make any bones about it over there it’s just okay time for your death chat.

Brian Garrish: Now David you’ve done some interviews with nurses who’ve been aware of these sorts of things happening.

David Scott: Well yes the nurses are, you know, they’re astonished for what with what actually went down. Some aspects of it you have what one very bizarre thing and I was speaking to a senior consultant in a Scottish hospital on this subject just to check that I had interpreted this correctly he confirmed it that what happened when Covid came in. You had maybe 150 years worth of medical practice building experience on experience refining safety Protocols and developing the most effective way so that you could cut someone open take a bit out stitch them back together. And they live without infection and without any more distress that is necessary. And all of these processes have been had been improved since the days where it was a literally a theatrical performance where speed was everything, because there was no anesthesia. And there was no antiseptic. And after all, this improvement they had all of these procedures to how you treat people who are ill whether it’s operations, or whether it’s ill with other things. And Covid came along. And there was panic. And all of the processes got bend and they started changing the most fundamental parts of how people were handled where they where they’re prepared for surgery where they come around after surgery how they’re monitored how with all the fundamentals got changed in what looked like a moment of blind panic, because they were so convinced that Covid was this unbelievable killer! This is so deadly this is at the end of the end of the world type scenario.

Woes: Well there was the footage coming out of China of people just sort of slouching around zombie-like and dropping dead in the street.

David Scott: And statistics coming out of Italy which later proved to be not true. But the initial message was this is terrifying and the medical profession dropped all of its protective procedures and tried to rewrite them all on the hoof. And that really happened. So that caused a lot of problems. You had lots of just bad practice was introduced. And this is what the nurses were speaking at you can’t do that’s not safe and you’re not allowed to speak out in the society in which we currently live if you work particularly if you work for an arm of the state your comments and criticisms are not required if we want you to have an opinion we’ll give it to you.

Alex Thompson: So shall not bless theme the name of the NHS thy god.

David Scott: Yeah, they got pressured. And then you had things like the vaccination programme was being run out and we picked this up very quickly and asked questions to the Scottish government you’re running a vaccination programme into the care homes, because it’s the elderly they got it first. And as soon as you run that out there was a doubling, or tripling of the death rate there was a huge spike in death when did that lasted for three weeks.

Woes: When did that happen? Was that in like at the start of this year.

David Scott: Yes yes from December through to February this year yeah. So there’s a huge spike in deaths, because what and the mechanism is known. Because the vaccines the jabs cause a collapse, or a certainly a huge [75:02] reduction in the natural immune system yeah.

Alex Thompson: If you want to see the pictures we have a bit of a coup. As of last night sorry as of Friday night anyway go to ukcollum.org and look for the recent doctors for covered ethics symposium. And the first presentation given in that video you’ll find there is the almost the only pathologist in the world that has bothered to report to the world about cutting open patients who had died after Covid jabs and finding the be lymphocytes sorry the yes it is lymphocytes and various other types of cells clustered right inside the organs. It’s yeah I’ve probably got the name of the cells wrong there Brian you must correct me.

Brian Garrish: Well the main thing they were pointing out was what they were talking about the spiked proteins. But they were showing.

Alex Thompson: The response to them that is done by these, you know, I always hate getting medical details wrong. But it’s a certain kind of leukocyte the killer cells cluster inside the organs, because they see that every organ is producing expressing the spike protein that’s there that’s triggered as a result of getting the genetic jabs.

Brian Garrish: Yeah. So these were actually shown on screen are the tissue slides with a qualified professional describing what you can see slides around the heart, or the heart membranes kidneys skin. And there was also another professional showing computer images of people’s eyes retinas and showing the damage that had occurred to those from vaccines. So as Alex has said if people go to that symposium they instead of listening to us they can listen to the qualified medical professionals describing the damage they’re seeing inside bodies as a people’s bodies as a result of vaccination.

David Scott: And the three week spike in death rate that was replicated as the vaccination programme ran through the population doing cohort by cohort so, you know, started off with over the 80s and then went in roughly decades by decade down through the population, the same spike in death rate was visible in each age interval and turn. And it’s quite the it’s quite clearly visible in the starts. And there’s a professor of professor fenton a risk analysis expert who’s speaking out on this. Just a few days ago so this has happened and that’s. If you like in addition to the blood clots. And the other more direct causes of death, because you’re talking there about a reduction in the immune system and therefore anything that happens to be floating around might kill you. So it solves particular concern. When you see what’s happened over the last four to eight hours where. We’ve been told that essentially the whole of the adult population of the British Isles is going to be is going to be vaccinated by the third booster job. Inside of three weeks. 80 days 20 million vaccinations nothing like this has ever been happened. But it’s never happened before. And I’m curious as to what will happen if you reduce simultaneously the immune system of basically your entire population all at the one time.

Woes: And in the middle of winter.

David Scott: In the middle.

Alex Thompson: Actually, it puts me in mind when you put it like that of a line in John bunyan’s pilgrim’s progress when one of the ogres in the book. I think it’s giant Pope, or giant pagan well that’s probably giant Pope says to our hero there’ll be no mending of you till more of you be burned!

Woes: Ominous. So if we speak in very general terms then what has happened over the last two years what is Covid what is going on? Alex you take that first. I’ll ask each of you in turn, because I want this like just speak in general terms. And I’d like your each a summary of that from each of you.

Alex Thompson: What is going on right now that we’re not noticing so much with Covid.

Woes: What is Covid? What is the is, …

Alex Thompson: I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about this recently from as many strands as I can. Covid is the seizing upon a genuinely [80:01] novel respiratory illness I’m not sure to what extent being a layman in medicine it’s respiratory borne. But anyway an illness that’s clearly novel and has respiratory symptoms the greatly inflating of that genuine novel problem in medicine in order to bring about a plan which as we’ve been talking about all evening. Well I plan sounds sinister and gets laughed at as a conspiracy theory. So I say a determination a change to society a weaponization of society that was clearly so advanced by 10, or 15 years ago in the English-speaking countries that the people were being lined up ready for it. And the manifestations that this change will particularly have as we now see from the economic side I think Catherine Austin fitz is by far the best commentator on this. The economic repercussion of this is that within two, or three years the sooner if they can get their programming sorted out, genuine crypto-currency will have been replaced by something that looks the same masquerades as the same. But isn’t which is a controlled currency. The link, of course, being digital identity within people’s bodies the tracking of people through not just face facial recognition but their digital their biometric fingerprint wherever they go and whatever they do this is. Again, if you listen to the Bill pawlek from this an interview talking about what’s going on in the 70s. This would this was something that was waiting for the technology to catch up with a plan that the families we’ve been talking about had back then to track their cattle. So that’s the big thing. And then the other big manifestation that’s going to be obvious I don’t mean in the new age sense manifestation just the popping up of it is. That there’s going to be ice I fear war and in very general terms our Deep State wants the war, to begin this side of 2025, because we will might just about still outgun Russia and China and Iran and their Deep State would rather hang back until the latter half of the decade. Because then they think they will comprehensively outclass in every domain including cyber and space. But as with the previous World Wars standing above and behind both sides are the gentlemen who. And a lot of ladies these days who are profit from the arms sales and particularly from the chance to remake the world and it’s institutions the day the ceasefire is signed. That is the big plan. And if you want a really singing sort of one-liner from me at the end which I don’t tend to do but you ask for it is I have I’m fairly confident now that the cabal will pull out as rabbit like from its hat at some point what you can call alien 9/11. A mixture of exotic weapons and psychographic and holographic technology to tell us that the world’s been invaded by so-called aliens, and therefore we must unite under global government to advance said agenda.

Woes: Well okay! I will all right let’s go to David. Covid the last two years, the Great Reset, lockdowns, the vaccine, what does it all mean? What does it all represent? What has actually been going on here?

David Scott: Yeah Covid for this control it’s the actual disease. I don’t think it was manufactured. I think it’s real I think that the people who are saying that the germ theory of illnesses flawed have a point. But I don’t know exactly what the correction to the current theory should be. But I think the illness is real. It’s not particularly threatening for anyone who’s healthy. But it had a very, very good PR consultant. And it was elevated to be a major threat that it never was. And that’s given the government’s control unbelievable control we’ve seen it in Australia we’ve seen it in New Zealand the Anglo-Saxon countries the last bastions of liberty that we are have been amongst the worst not quite the worst but certainly amongst the worst for closing down their own populations the populations have mostly accepted it so far. And it’s given the it’s given the state a great deal of control and they will now do something with that control I’m not quite sure what. And it’s been clear to me that the spiritual aspect of this fight [85:01] is to get people to realize that their compliance is not virtue their compliance is cowardice.

Woes: Yeah. I would I’m not going to comment on that. But I would certainly agree with that last part. Brian would you like to give a summary of Covid in the last two years? What it represents? What it signifies?

Brian Garrish: Okay. Well, I also believe that the virus exists. I believe that the actual virus that we encountered had been interfered with by the human hand so I don’t regard it as being totally natural. I know there’s a lot of discussion about this and I’m also going to say there are some people who say well. Because the virus has never been what’s the term the correct term.

Alex Thompson: It’s never been isolated. Although the virologists say we can’t speak of isolation with viruses. But it’s all rough terms.

Brian Garrish: Well all I wanted to say is that there are some people who say:

“Well, you can’t even call it virus.”

I’m just gonna say I can accept I can see people get ill and I’m old enough to know that in the past people have got ill in a particular way and they feel really bad and they say they’ve got flu. And some vulnerable people elderly people with other underlying conditions can easily die if they get the thing called flu. So I’m going to say for me I accept this thing called flu exists. But I would agree with the comments that we’ve then seen this normal natural winter phenomena has been ramped up to literally frighten the pants off people. And on the back of that fear where we can show that the British government used a group of individuals trained in psychology the spy B team operate operating alongside it’s Covid sage team that spy B team were producing documents saying that the British government should ramp up fear in order to make people better, or dear to the policies that they wanted the lockdown policies. So that’s what I see with the background. But then what’s been the result of this. Well, we’ve seen people killed in very large numbers there is no doubt about this at all we have seen. I’m going to say hundreds of thousands of mainly elderly people, but not exclusively have died. And we’ve seen our society completely changed in that we have been locked in our own homes we’ve seen families divided against each other’s. We’ve seen families denied the opportunity to mix and carry on normal family loving family interactions and we’ve also seen society divided in a particularly callous and vicious way. And that is continuing under this latest scam that we’ve now got the moronic the omicon virus. We are back on this division of society so the vaccinated are frightened of the unvaccinated people. And we’re being told that if you’re not vaccinated you are a threat to society. So in the matter of a couple of years we’ve seen the most draconian lockdown of society in a way that I think back now to 20 years ago 30 years ago unbelievable! Where we’ve come to. People frightened to go out to the house you can’t go to the pub you can’t go to a gym you can’t go to a club. The government is controlling our lives down to who comes into our house.

So this is a huge, huge power grab but the bit that goes with it is the other policies that we see coming out of these globalistic think tanks such as the World Economic Forum, because alongside AI where AI and the AI algorithms the smart technology are going to run our lives. They’re also talking about the trans humanism agenda where they are working to change us from being human beings into Cyborgs, or the equivalent. And there’s no question that they’re doing it in the labs. This is reality so we’ll call it the hidden hand has now taken away basic freedoms it’s locked us down in a way which has made the majority of the country absolutely powerless through fear.

And then we can already see where this goes next the AI is coming in where [90:02] everybody is to be tracked and face scanned and fingerprinted wherever they move. Some people are saying the mark of the beast. And I think they’re not far off it. And then we are going to be denied the opportunity to be human beings in its true sense. We’ve even got an attack on men and women now it’s not right to say that there are men and there are women. So the agenda as you get into these larger policy areas I think is clearly demonic, or we could call it satanic. But whatever the mind is that’s created this situation in the world to me is utter evil. And we need to think about it in these terms. And we need to deal with it in these terms, because it is not just political policy this is not conservative policy, or Labour policy, or even global policy. This is so bad it must come from a mind which is demonic.

Woes: Yeah. I would echo that. I think that there is a sense of evil permeating all of this. When you see various examples various manifestations of what’s going on? Families being split apart families being artificially separated children not being allowed to cuddle their grandparents children being raised to be accustomed to distance between them and other people being paranoid about other people as a biological threat to you there are so many manifestations here. Yeah, I agree it is evil. You see the thing is I do I’m not against hierarchy. And I’m not even against the I’m not against the concept of authority. But I think that we need, you know, society and human beings deserve and need an elite that is humane and sane and kind kind-hearted. And I think that what we’re seeing here is an elite that is there’s anything but those things.

Just to end I think that people like us tend to be very good at finding problems and analyzing problems. But I think it would be good to end on some kind of positive advice. And David said earlier that compliance is not virtue it is cowardice. David I’ll ask you to expand on that. And then I’ll ask Brian and Alex to give their own just something of advice for people in the coming in the coming years.

David Scott: I think what this has done is this made resistance easy, because anything normal is resistant resistance anything that is not ruled by fear is resistance you go and you smile a neighbour you’re resisting you ask a question you resisted they don’t like questions they can’t answer them it’s very funny how things suddenly get reversed when well-placed questions start getting get in place. So much of what they do relies on their consent. The little bit at the end of the UK Column and silencers consent the so speaking out what we’ve got to do is going to learn learn to resist. And this is don’t accept lies don’t accept half truths. Question what’s been told to you have the confidence to use your own intelligence to see what appears right. And if it doesn’t keep asking questions the system doesn’t really cope well with that at all. So the ability to resist is much broader than it ever was. Because the tyranny is much more obvious than it ever was. We are planning on doing a lot of development in the UK Column in the next year since the Covid thing started we’ve gone from being what would you say I as a little organization run by dedication and not much else to organization that’s starting to look [95:01] like it’s reasonably well founded and looking to expand and looking to put a lot more content on so it’s enabled us to be followed lots of other people who are resisting this tyranny will be finding the same thing the new voices will be emerging support people who you’ve considered are telling the truth encourage them subscribe to them and remove your support from. Those who are lying to you. Don’t subscribe to the BBC! Don’t subscribe to the Guardian! Don’t do these things! And I’ll keep asking questions and the fight is out there. And it’s not far away you’ll find it quite quickly.

And if you can lose the fear and enjoy the process of resisting it becomes the world becomes a lot less frightening for a start very quickly and it becomes I wouldn’t quite say fun. But there’s certainly an element of comedy in it for sure. And you also find that you make an awful lot of very good friends you might lose some friends but you’ll make better ones than the ones you’ve lost right.

Alex Thompson: Our Russian lesson for the evening which means don’t believe! Don’t fear! And don’t request. Right that is the distilled wisdom of all the Soviet dissidents. And, in fact, it was quoted by an old mate of mine give orgratz when he appeared on UK Column from odessa recently and David went into detail on the communist injunction in the Bible fear not he just did. So in that little speech and he did so equally well in a blog you’ll find on UK Column.org if you search for it called fear not. Fear is pretty obvious to people of all religious persuasions and none as to why it’s a bad thing, because well in the Christian understanding it’s blocks out all the things that there should be such as fear of even of your creator and of your of those who really have authority over you. But the remedy in the Bible is that perfect love which means mature love by the way, rather than naive love the kind of love that says I must get jabby jaby to protect gran that’s naive love perfect love adult love casts out fear, or drives out fear. So people are aware of that it’s even in the culture through Frank Herbert’s dune, you know, fear is the mind killer it switches the mind off it turns you back to the reptilian brain. And all these things so that’s been well covered.

The other two which I’m astonished how regularly feature in all the best philosophical and religious writing from around the world from antiquity onwards is the other two should we see sources of problems that you can switch off, at this point, by constantly working on them are greed and pride! Pride, of course, is often referred to by the Greek word hubris Latin superbia. And both of these words express more than English pride does that’s the problem is not being genuinely proud of what you and your people have achieved but rather the problem is thinking of yourself more highly than you ought and this sets you up for a full pride goes before a fall. So if there’s any unexamined assumptions within yourself that I will just do fine, or I need to be in the lead and whatever then let that be knocked out of you, you know, we have a great time in sort of the fraternal atmosphere of UK Column, because without any kind of confrontation we managed to smooth each other’s rough edges by saying. You don’t want to be doing it that way my good fellow and that works just fine. So wherever you are. You need to be in a small team of people.

And as I was saying to some young Dutch people I was sitting around a table on Saturday with a dozen Dutch dissidents schooling them in this. And I said. Well, the first thing you do is go out in skirmishes together as we did when we were a small organization and enjoy your acquiring your battle scars and your wounds limp back home and have a post match confab with each other and say:

“Well, that was fun wasn’t it guys if it isn’t fun then you shouldn’t be in dissident work. Because the enemy can never enjoy what he does he doesn’t have any fun.”

So that’s you’ve always got one up on the enemy there. So engage in skirmishes see what worked well as a team what didn’t and tighten your game so that’s get rid of prize just be, you know, humble and the third one is pretty obvious to greed get rid of it in every sense that many traditions say you are a slave as many times as you have passions, or greeds, or desires so cut out the obvious ones the ones that plague modern life like porn addiction like addiction to the wrong kinds of food examine what it is that makes [100:00] you weak for these things the feeling of helplessness and emotional damage that comes before indulging in any habit. Turn that into a moment of meditation instead and say I can live without that if you’re a Christian but express say it with Paul in the words of colossians 3 for ye are dead and your life is hid with Christ in god. So if you can get that sorted out then the attitude is well they can have whatever that they can take off me. Because that’s not the real me. And if it comes to it if. It really does come to being carried off the camps god forbid. Learn from Solzhenitsyn and many others who lived through the totalitarianism that as he said. In one of his purple passages in the Gulag Archipelago how we burned in the camps that we hadn’t kicked and screamed when they came for us right. I am not advocating violence in any situation short of people coming to cart you away obviously not. But think of it this way anywhere you take your last stand, or live out your last date is going to be less comfortable than doing it on your own doorstep yeah. I’ll just put it that way but don’t let it come to that so don’t fear, or I’ll repeat the Russian phrase right believe not! Fear not! Request not.

Woes: Okay. Thank you. Brian would you like to give some closing thoughts.

Brian Garrish: Well, thank you for that it’s fascinating isn’t it when we get to this point. What’s in my mind is that just a little while ago we were trying to pin down who was causing the trouble. So we went up through the structure to the people we thought could be controlling the policy and we were looking up certainly at international banker level, but above that. And then we come to a little bit of a smoky area, because we realize that we can’t actually see the individuals that are really controlling this global totalitarian policy. We can’t see them and we can’t name them. And on one hand this makes the battle difficult, because you can’t easily fight an enemy that you can’t see, or you can’t detect.

But we get told something else why are they hidden. And the answer is very simply that they albeit that they’re extremely powerful extremely powerful they’re actually frightened of us, because if they weren’t frightened of us why would they need to be hidden? So the enemy we’re up against is very powerful, very strong in many ways. But ultimately we’re being told. And we can see very clearly that this enemy is frightened of ordinary people, because it hides it’s face.

And. So I think that the way we can fight back is so easy, because what do people like to do people love to talk. This is why mobile phones are so successful why social media is so successful people like to talk. But if we’re going to use that system to fight. Then we’ve got to focus on some simple things we’ve got to focus on truth. We’ve got to make sure that what we’re saying is true that that helps with personal relationships as it does with putting across perhaps a more political answer.

We’ve got a deal, in fact. And we’ve got a deal in evidence. So as long as we’re talking and interfacing with our fellow human being men and women. Then we’ve got to be accurate in what we talk about. But if we want to bring down this very powerful, very evil totalitarian regime we’ve got to be warning other people about it. And we’ve got to be showing them what’s happening. And we’ve got to be supporting and winning people over helping and comforting them.

So that’s a communication war and without mentioning any names there’s a channel which calls itself information wars and whatever you think of the individual running that. I’ve always thought what a brilliant name it was, because we are in an information war. And we can win that war, because we have the millions and billions of people world-wide on our side. And we easily easily outnumber the bad people that we can’t see.

So my advice is to talk. But when you talk and exchange ideas with other people you’ve got to be truthful you’ve got to deal with facts and evidence. And you’ve got to put across your ideas in a way that’s loving.

And. I’m going to say to the audience I’m still quite surprised to hear myself say [105:01] this, because if I’d gone back 20 plus years ago to my military time I would have imagined then I’d be talking more in terms of how many rounds we had, rather than saying we’ve actually got to use truth. And we’ve got to love one another. But we’re up against utter evil. If you want to fight evil then you’re going to have to turn to scriptures. And you’re going to have to deal in truth. And you’re going to have to treat your fellow man and fellow woman with due love and respect.

Woes: Okay. Thank you very much for that there was actually a question posted which is related to the military and I wasn’t sure how to fit it in but you’ve just mentioned the military. So I’ll bring it in here. And this is a quick question before we end. Is using the 77th brigade to propagandize Covid a ripping up of the principle of not turning the army against the British public.

Alex Thompson: Yes! Yes! America has the doctrine codified possible comitatus, but all common law countries have the same actually you cannot use troops in any common law constitution any English-speaking country’s constitution then they all the countries have them the government lies when it says they don’t. You cannot use the troops against the people. You’ve already forfeited your right to rule that way.

Woes: Oh that’s something for us all to bear in mind [Laughter] okay. Well thank you very much. I think this has been a really interesting and useful stream. So thank you very much UK Column.

Brian Garrish: Okay. Thank you.

David Scott: You’re very welcome.

Woes: Thank you very much. It’s been a real pleasure excellent. Well, thank you very much and i’ll be back in about 10 minutes with Survive the Jive in the meantime bye bye for now.

Brian Garrish: Okay bye-bye.

[106:55]

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