Woes: Hello. And welcome back to Millenniyule 2021. This is the third night. And I’m going to there will be four streams tonight. In two hours we’ll have Faust from the Netherlands. And then Snorkelblog from Sweden. And then Radical Liberation from America.

But first I have back with me a guest who was very popular last year from Ireland. And it is the columnist John Waters. For anyone who’s not, … Welcome back to Millenniyule, John.

John Waters: Thank you very much.

Woes: And for anyone who’s not familiar with you just briefly introduce yourself.

John Waters: Well I’m not really a columnist anymore. But I used to be. I was for many years. I was with the Irish Times, I was with all kinds of Irish newspapers. I started off in music journalism and Hot Press, an Irish music magazine [word unclear] many years ago. And been in various things mainstream, until about five, six, years ago.

And then I turned my back on the mainstream. It began to grow very, very seedy and nasty. And just in time! I mean, I kind of got out before things really got horrific, as they have now.

And so I’ve written 10 books, mainly about Ireland, about Irish cultural and political and spiritual life. That kind of stuff. Some of the biographic elements in parts.

And currently you can get me on Substack. I’ve been on Substack for the last year and a half, or so. John Waters on Change, JohnWaters.substack.com I do stuff there, which is kind of what I do generally about all of these things; culture, spirituality, religion, music, you know whatever.

But I mean, the last year, of course, the last two years has been kind of Covid all the way. So most of the stuff on there is somewhat Covid related. And probably will be for the rest of my life [chuckling]!

Woes: Well you and I, we talked extensively about Covid last year. I mean, as you say, it dominates everything now! It’s changed the world! It’s changed life. And I think that in the year since then that has only become more ramified. The ways in which it’s affecting different parts of our lives. And is now secured in doing so. It’s sort of run in. It’s integrated in a way.

I just heard about this. I think it’s in Canada, Ontario where they’re keeping the Covid pass that they was that could have been cancelled in the middle of January. But they’re going to keep it beyond that. And they’re going to now make it a QR code, in order to prevent fraud. So that’s further integration into people’s lives. And, of course, it is preparing it for the long term.

John Waters: Yeah.

Woes: Systems are being erected all the time that they’re never, they’re not going to take down voluntarily.

John Waters: That’s right. Well, that’s a strange thing about it. Whereas the people who believe in the Covid thing and, you know, immerse themselves in it, initially we’re the ones who seem to be obsessed with it. Now it’s the people who don’t, who kind of think that it’s the most important thing that ever happened. And is ever going to happen, …

Woes: I know what you mean.

John Waters: Those people are now kind of saying:

“Well why are you always going on about Covid!”

I mean, they’re completely immersed in it. So they don’t even notice that it’s there. They don’t notice that reality has changed, because that is their reality. Whereas our reality is change. And it isn’t our reality.

Woes: It’s like the thing about a fish doesn’t know what water is, kind of thing [chuckling]!

John Waters: Yeah, it’s that kind of vibe. And this year has been very, very strange in that connection, because you can see now that this has been the year when the kind of gloves came off. And those kind of, what I call the unspeakable creeps who run this locally in Ireland, or in Britain, or whatever, they suddenly kind of start announcing that:

“Actually, it’s going to last for about five years.”

They just suddenly pop that out, because they reckon that they’ve prepared their people sufficiently for it. And it turns out they have! And people don’t even blink an eyelid. And so we’re watching this and being absolutely stunned by it! By the effect it’s having on people.

And that’s the thing we’ve come to realize as well in ourselves that the first maybe year, we just thought of it as something weird, something strange, something that was unusual, was problematic, that was, … But we didn’t see what was really happening. And now it’s got really freaky, because you realize they’ve actually changed, they’ve deeply changed the mindset of the vast majority of the people!

[05:08]

Woes: And yes, it’s not a novelty anymore. It’s become the new norm. Which means that they must have changed the human subject, itself.

John Waters: Oh yeah at some levels it’s quite scary, because you see, if you think about something which we vaguely call “civilizational values”, whatever that would be. And I suppose we would all kind of agree no matter what our politics that a certain kind of view of freedom was essential, like fundamental, right?

Liberal values, that we say. Liberal, mock Democratic values. But now this was like a very light veil that was over society. And that has just been blown off in the last couple of years. And it’s gone now! Because nobody believes in the things that they stood for two years ago!

Like people who were liberals, I mean, people who are democrats clearly, that went without saying. That just didn’t agree with discrimination. They were absolutely opposed to it! They never talked about anything else! About how except how terrible discrimination was! That was the most toxic word possibly in the language there for a long time! Discrimination!

I mean, “discrimination” actually isn’t such a toxic word, objectively speaking, because we all discriminate in all kinds of ways. We discriminate between jam and marmalade, and tea and coffee. And so on. But it had become a toxic word. To be accused of “discrimination” was almost the worst thing, before like homophobia, and racism, really came on.

But now it’s like:

“Oh yeah! Discrimination is okay! What do you mean? What’s wrong with discrimination?”

Or what’s wrong with apartheid? You know, they won’t say that. But that’s what they mean. They’re saying that really. They’re, in fact, they’re saying that.

So yeah, …. I mean, this is like at a level, … I saw a guy on YouTube there, Richard Graham, he’s a psychologist. And a few months ago he did a very interesting video where he was talking about the whole idea of a society going through the throes of what will be an individual experience of going into depression and beyond. And he was saying, well okay this is like maybe three, four, five months ago:

“Like we are as societies, we are in a deep depression.”

And he didn’t mean economically, he meant psychically. And he said:

“We’re about to go into really psychic shock!”

And I think we’ve gone into that now. And we’re just like dazed! Because I think we said last year, I’m keep saying, the words are inadequate. We need a new dictionary. Because like words like “bizarre” and “surreal” and “deranged”, they don’t even touch it!

Woes: Yeah [laughing]!

John Waters: And so here we are like struggling for words, looking at this tough stuff. Which is really, I suppose it would be a bad dream. It’s a dream that would make you wake up feeling very queasy, and wanting to forget it very quickly.

Woes: Yeah. You’d be relieved.

John Waters: [word unclear] burning shock. And I really am astonished by that.

And I’ve been watching this very interesting guy called Matthias Desmond. He’s a Belgian psychologist. And he’s been talking very, very consistently and very interestingly about “mass formation”, “crowd formation”, and the connection with hypnosis, mass hypnosis, which is the more or less the same thing.

And when he describes that it’s actually quite scary. As a layman I’ve been grasping to try and understand it. The zone of attention that people have in this situation, under this massive hypnosis – which is what it is as a result of propaganda, and TV, and all that – they’re actually not capable of taking in anything outside that focus. And that they don’t care about other things. And they don’t care about their lives. They don’t care about what they lose.

Like what is amazing about it that people have actually lost the capacity to talk to you in any kind of reasonable way. I find that with my family members. And so on. You’re having a conversation, …

Woes: Yeah, I think quite a lot of us, a lot of people watching will sympathize with that. I think a lot of us have had this thing where it has turned brother against brother, so to speak.

John Waters: Yeah, but what I’ve noticed is its really strange. Because you’re talking to somebody, let’s say a brother, or sister, or somebody like that, you’ve had a reasonably good relationship all your life. And you’re just trying to have a conversation like you had a million times before. And it’s actually impossible. Because you just meet silence. You just meet complete silence.

[10:00]

Woes: Yeah. It’s like they’re living in a different world now.

John Waters: Yeah. And you can actually hear the thoughts that are going on in their heads. So yeah, :

“Everybody’s been saying he’s gone crazy. And he has!”

Woes: Yeah, I see what you mean.

John Waters: I’ll try and get off the phone now:

“Listen. Yeah, I don’t even think any other news? And yeah, listen what time is? I have to go out to the shops before they close. Yeah, okay see you later! Bye! Bye! Bye!”

And it’s quite extraordinary. But I’ve actually noticed it in amazing situations. Like this thing effects highly intelligent people just as much time at least as much as, …

Woes: Absolutely! Intelligence is not a very relevant metric here.

John Waters: No.

Woes: Because I think it affects, yeah, …

John Waters: It may be a disadvantage to the extent that people who are highly educated have gone through an academic process. So they’re used to absorbing information. And once they’ve absorbed that, the science, then they’re kind of converted. And there’re unshakeable in that faith, thereafter.

And I think that’s a big problem as well. I mean, the word is not very positive on this. Dr Desmond says that it’s almost impossible, I gather, to reverse, to unpick, mass formation in an individual, or indeed in the collective. And that there are ways of doing it and it does wear down a bit. And you can, it weakens, the trance, or whatever you would call it.

But it’s not a short-term thing. And it’s not promising in the short term, or even the medium term.

Woes: I mean, some people think that the Omicron variant, and the need for the booster shot. And now the second booster shot that they’re starting to talk about. And I think has actually been mandated in Israel, yeah. So that’s the fourth shot.

John Waters: Yeah.

Woes: Or at least it’s something. I don’t want to give this information here. Something has happened in Israel regarding the fourth shot.

John Waters: Yes.

Woes: And I’ve heard quite a few people saying:

“People are starting to wake up now.”

And I get a feeling about that, as well. I’ve seen people, normie Facebook, I’ve seen people saying:

“I got the two shots. I’m fully vaccinated. That’s what they were testing. I needed to do a year ago. I’ve done it! I wear the mask! I social distance and now, they’re telling me to get a third shot! And they’re telling me that we’re going to have another lockdown!”

And it’s clearly that some people definitely are realizing that the goalposts have been shifted again, and again. And I think the big one was the thing about two shots. Two shots and that’s it! Two shots, and we can start rebuilding something of 2019 normality. But that’s been completely taken away.

John Waters: I think they’re middle ground people though. I think that the real hardcore core, mass formation battalion, which is about I think 30 percent, are not movable. There’s a 40% or so, in the middle, who kind of go which whichever, with the winning side, as it were. And so far the winning side is the side that is doing this.

And yeah, there’s a certain kind of weak thing among that. I picked that up for sure. And that’s very, very positive. But it’s incredible how long it’s taken.

And even now… I mean, this is the amazing thing about it, people do not seem to be able to understand that they’ve been conned! That this thing doesn’t stop the virus, being infected. It doesn’t stop infection. Doesn’t stop you’re spreading the virus. They say you become less ill if you get it. But who knows? Where’s the evidence? Like who can possibly say, like:

“Oh you would have died if you hadn’t had it? See, that’s the proof, right? Well, yeah. It’s crazy stuff like. I mean, people are actually saying really bizarre stuff.

 

Woes: Yeah, I think there was something that came close to:

“Okay, he’s died. But if he hadn’t been vaccinated, it could have been even worse!”

[Laughing]

John Waters: Yeah, that would have been somewhat worse, you know!:

“Oh! He’s paralyzed, and he’s blind. But he didn’t get the Covid, you know!”

It could be a lot worse!

Woes: I mean, it’s very farcical.

John Waters: That sounds funny, but that’s actually what’s happening! Like that is actually the mindset. And that’s the hypnosis. And this is something like we have no knowledge of, we have no experience of, culturally, of this happening.

Because the only time we’ve seen hypnosis is in a kind of a controlled, entertainment, setting, or on TV, where it’s all for fun.

But this is for real. And this is life and death. And the terrible thing is, as I understand it, is that these people can absolutely be set at other people. They’re like literally trained animals. They can be unleashed.

[15:12]

Woes: Well, this is the cliche. I think we might have talked about this last December, I can’t remember. But definitely I’ve talked about this throughout this year.

Quite a lot that I think most of us grew up and lived our early adulthood, and the last 50 years, post-war, it was a liberal and rather nihilistic world. Where there wasn’t a doctrine, there wasn’t an ideology, there wasn’t a prevailing Christian morality anymore. Obviously Ireland might be different in that regard, but in Britain and America that was the way it was.

And in the 90s everyone was encouraged to just be an individual, suit yourself, nothing really matters, you don’t need to believe in anything, just indulge yourself, and find yourself. Do what you want.

And so that’s one of the things that I think has completely changed over the last two years. Because now you’re not expected, you’re not encouraged, to pursue your own interests, your own individuality, your own future. You’re encouraged to devote yourself to the well-being of the collective.

And another side of this is that absence of a prevailing morality, the absence of a prevailing culture, and whatever, religion. Also the absence of conformity. And what you might call him hypnosis of a kind, low level. Whereas now it’s come back.

And another aspect of this – sorry, this is the last thing I’ll say – we’ve seen all of these cliches, … In fact, I’ll bring that in later. So any thoughts on what I just said?

John Waters: Well, yeah. The further point that comes to me now, where I am, because I grew up in, you know, a slightly different kind of society. But nevertheless, that society was there, that culture was present in the mix. It might have been less of a wedge than it was in the UK, or in America. But it was there.

And then the other wedge of the Catholic thing was getting thinner and thinner, and so on. So we lived that, we jockeyed that whole thing as well.

But one of the things that I’m constantly struggling with now, is that for all my life, up to like the last two years, even though when maybe in the last 20 years of journalism I was fighting things which are now very much live in culture, in Marxist terms.

Like feminism, or LGBT, or whatever, all that stuff. I found myself pitted against those forces for all kinds of complicated reasons.

Mainly to do with the fact that I was a father of a child and had a struggle to actually have that, to protect that relationship in a culture that was very hostile, in a legal culture, et cetera, et cetera.

And then I found these people were crowding in trying to actually make things worse for me and my daughter! And try to grab all the rights that natural families were entitled. To steal them for families that were not as, let us say, quote, unquote, “natural” in that sense.

But apart from that, I was kind of a very mainstream kind of person, I think, in terms of my attitude to political and social reality. I just took for granted what was there in front of me. Now, in the last couple of years looking at this and trying to make sense of it. Because it’s, as I say, it’s very difficult to comprehend.

And the analogy I use to try to form a view about it is building a dry stone wall, right? You’ve got a big pile of stones either side of you and you’re building this wall. And so as you get higher you have to be looking for more, and more, rarefied sizes of stone. And they don’t fit, so you leave it back. You don’t throw it away, you just leave it back. And one day, the next day, maybe you pick it up and it fits, right!

And it’s a bit like that, trying to put together this. So you hear what people are calling conspiracy theories. Which is, of course, the wrong way around. Because the theory is not the problem! The conspiracy, whatever it is, is the problem, right? [Woes laughs] And people actually zone on the conspiracy, as if this was the crime. It’s an amazing thing! But I’ve actually started applying that dry stone wall model, to all that. And say:

“Well, does it work?”

And so you’re suddenly in a situation where you’re saying:

“Okay, I absolutely was straight! I didn’t believe in anything weird, or I didn’t believe in, you know, aliens, or spirits, all that kind of stuff. Whatever that might be.”

And I said:

“Okay, well now actually everything’s now, so weird that everything’s on the table! I’m not throwing any stones away now! I may not ever use them. But I’m going to leave them there until I finish the wall!”

And what I’m actually finding is that everything I thought I knew, was pretty much wrong! You know, in terms of how things were put together. And in terms of what you outlined there Colin, you have to kind of then say:

“Well if there are these puppet masters, all the time manipulating reality, whatever, they’re going to be called, the New World Order, or the Illuminati, whatever.”

I don’t even know what they’re called. But I have a fair idea that they’re there! In some way. The Bilderbergers and the Trilateralists. And all these guys party at Davos, and all this sort of stuff. But there’s something there.

And the idea that actually we’ve been manipulated from the beginning. So that’s the thing. The liberal, or era, which you talked about, which we always assumed it was completely spontaneous! An eruption of youthful energy. But what if it wasn’t? What if it was actually created?

Woes: Yes.

John Waters: These thoughts you have to put together now.

Woes: Oh yeah! Yeah! And you see how much money went into rock and roll. And I like, … This is the annoying thing, right? Because [laughing] I like a lot of the popular culture from the second half of the 20th century! And it’s annoying to hear that actually there was a lot of big money that went into it. And some subcultures. Punk even! And the hippy, and Woodstock, and all this.

And these things probably wouldn’t have happened without that funding. And without that expertise, coordination. And so on.

John Waters: Yeah.

Woes: And I think that the function that it would fulfill is to soften us up, and to dissolve the previous strictures of society, to dissolve our connection to tradition. So that we’re just sort of loose individuals.

John Waters: Yeah. We’re addicted to our passions and our instincts!

Woes: Yes! Yes!

John Waters: We start ignoring the cognitive zone, to some extent. And we’re living in our baser instinct, shall we say, for want of a better term. Yeah. I think that’s right.

But, you know, rock and roll. It’s very interesting thing, because now you see, if you flip over. And if, let’s say, that one of the other stones is that the same people, or their successors, they’ve now flipped the model, and they’re now doing the opposite to us. They’re imposing all of this tyranny on us. They’re taking away all the freedom and they’re giving us tyranny instead, right?

Now look at rock and roll in that situation. Look at rock and roll though! Look what it’s doing! Watch what it’s doing! In the 60s it was all for liberalism, and liberation, and Libertarianism! And all of these things, you know, permissiveness, and all that, right?

Woes: And rebelling against the establishment! Against the order!

John Waters: Yeah, you could rely on it! Now where is it? Apart from a tiny few like one Van Morrison, and Eric Clapton, and a few like that, Morrissey. They’re all on the other side! And this is the scary thing!

Woes: Isn’t it? Isn’t it so scary, [chuckling] because I just want to say one thing. The Kaiser Chiefs. Did you see this?

John Waters: No.

Woes: Okay. You go ahead now, then I’ll tell you that anecdote.

John Waters: Well I just wanted to say, I had been a terrible fright there in the last few days, and I haven’t really got over it. Because I’m a huge fan of Bob Dylan. And to me Bob Dylan is the smoldering soul of rock and roll in the modern era. He is the voice of the conscience. Because he’s rooted in tradition. Like all these songs are based on the Bible. If they aren’t, they’re not true, you know, that’s kind of his premise that he starts with. People don’t realize this about him.

But the other night I was going on YouTube and I came across a series of videos that he’s done. Completely new stuff. None of the old songs. But like there’s quite a lot of them there. These keep popping up. And they’re all in black and White. And one of them was Queen Jane or something. Very beautiful! And his voice has changed. His voice is softer and it’s more melodic.

And it’s like he’s lost that rasping kind of sound that he had for 20, 30 years. It’s very soft, very tender. And the videos are very beautiful.

But they’re very dark. So you can’t actually see what’s going on! You just see him and he’s standing at a mic. And the band in the background, or crowded around him, you know, that’s all very shadowy. And I’ve actually had watched I think two songs before I realized something. All the bands are wearing masks! They’re wearing face masks. What? I’m actually totally in shock about that!

Woes: Yeah.

John Waters: Because I can’t actually go and watch them now. I can’t listen to the music anymore. And I’m not even sure I can ever listen to Dylan again. Because it’s that important to me.

[25:31]

John Waters: Yeah. I’ll have to look this up, because I haven’t heard about this before. That is quite sinister I can imagine feeling I can imagine you feeling betrayed there.

John Waters: Yeah. Because I would have thought that, … Now is this more hypnosis, or is it something even more sinister than hypnosis? Which is saying a hell of a lot!

Is this something that he has to do? Because there are these rumours about him and you know, which I don’t believe. People tell me all the time that he’s involved in kind of masons, and satanism and all this stuff.

I mean, he says certain things. That’s what I’ve always believed, he lays false trails. He talks about the chief, the commander of this world. And he talks in this kind of language which could mean one thing, or the other. And he, of course, he wasn’t born [words unclear] for a very strong period in the 70s. And he made some beautiful music out of that.

Like he’s an amazing artist, there’s no question about it. But there are stories! There are stories. I mean, there are people out there who actually can talk for hours about this, that Bob Dylan was basically a creation of other forces.

Woes: Oh yes! Yes! Yes.

John Waters: You know, that one guy, that he went away. And he couldn’t play the guitar. And then he went away somewhere and six weeks later he comes back in Greenwich village. And he was playing like amazingly!

Woes: Right. Okay. That’s another thing altogether. But I want to get back to the general, …

John Waters: But the point is anyway… I mean, this is like the supposed dry stone wall. That you start to actually now mistrust the whole world!

Woes: Yes. I understand. I understand. And I don’t mean to be dismissive. I’m just, I don’t know anything about this. So I can’t converse [chuckling] about it.

John Waters: And to be honest I don’t want to go in there! I honestly don’t want to go in there.

Woes: It’s scary! Because you think okay so what am I going to find myself believing, or entertaining tomorrow [chuckling]! How bad does it get? I understand.

John Waters: What if it’s true? I couldn’t bear it.

Woes: Exactly.

John Waters: Because we’ve lived, as you say, we’ve lived our lives absorbing this! Like it’s meant a hell of a lot to us. Dylan is like really important to me. He’s an important artist to people of my generation.

Woes: Absolutely! And, you know, whenever when I see the hands that I like, I’m not going to name them.

But when I see them and they’re now off a certain age, all of them, whether they were from the 70sc the 80s, the 90s. They’re all older than they were then, obviously. And so they’re susceptible to Covid, or they definitely feel that they are. So they’re very cautious. They’re wearing the masks on tour. That that kind of stuff.

So you see photos of them on their tour. Their first concert in 10 years is great. They’ve got all the old synthesizers:

“Oh! Now, they’re wearing masks!”

And I can even see it being used as a sort of fashion statement. Like:

“Hey! It’s the 2020s, we might be from the 80s. But we’re still up to date!”

We’re with it [laughing]!

John Waters: And it’s just that’s like bondage thing, as well. Especially the black masks and all that kind of stuff. If you like in peace time they could have done this. And it would have that vibe. But it doesn’t now. It has an entirely different and more sinister vibe, altogether.

Woes: Absolutely! But the thing I wanted to tell you about the Kaiser Chiefs was that they did a concert about two, or three months ago. And it was part of a festival. It’s one of these music festivals. And they did us a concert. And in the middle of it, the the lead singer said to the crowd:

“Put your hands up in the air!”

And this was so weird! He said:

“Put your hands up in the air!”

And so they all put their hands up in the air. And he said:

“Yeah! You’ve got clean hands! Nice clean hands! You’ve been washing! Them disinfecting them!”

And then he said, in fact, I can just play the audio. I’ll play the audio, because this is really very strange stuff. And I might as well bring it in this was one of the key things of this year, I think. Let me just see if I can find this.

And the issue here is that there used to be a sense that rock and roll was rebellious. And what you find, in fact, is that they are, … Hold on a second. Let me just see if I can find this for you. Because there’s a sense of it being cult-like.

John Waters: Yeah.

Woes: And I also think there’s a certain, you can imagine it’s come from some Psychological Behavioural Insights Team, or something like that.

John Waters: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we did I think talk last year about this strange ideological template that came with Covid. And very early on it started to manifest itself. That to be against, to be questioning of Covid, or lockdown, was to be Right-wing. And, in fact, far-Right!

Woes: Yeah.

John Waters: And that created this ricochet then, that allowed that anybody who wasn’t against it, was ipso factor, Left-wing. So all Left-wingers converged around the Covid flag, regardless! And that became their tribe, their club.

Woes: Very much. Well, okay. That again plays into this thing. So here’s this clip. This is a modern band, from the 2000s. So they’re not that modern! [chuckling] But that’s another thing! That’s a whole other thing that culture seems to have frozen for the last 20 years!

John Waters: Yes.

Woes: We can get into that later perhaps. So here’s this audio clip.:

“Do you have clean hands? Yess! They’re all clean hands? Washing them! Let me hear it if you’ve had the Pfizer vaccine! [cheering] [Applause] Hear it for Moderna! [Applause] AstraZeneca! [Applause] The anti-vaxxers? [crowd subdued and starting to boo].”

So there you go.

John Waters: That’s absolutely shocking!

Woes: Yeah.

John Waters: But that actually reflects what I’ve experienced. What I thought, picked up, from my former associations in all that culture as a music journalist. And in the bands.

For example, I was down the country a couple of months back. And there was an arts festival on. And there was gigs on. And I looked, and the posters all had “Vaccine pass necessary to enter”.

And these were like kind of guys who had majored in supporting Ireland, we had this thing all 35 years ago. Don Store strikes. Which is the workers of Don Stores, big chain here, groceries and clothes. But they had actually been fired, because they refused to handle South African oranges. And there was a protest went on for over a year. I can’t remember exactly. But it’s a long time, outside, a picket. And all of the Rockers and the Folkies were on their side. They were against South Africa, against apartheid, and all that.

Now they have apartheid and they’re working it!

Woes: Yes.

John Waters: They’re happy to work it! To actually have their name on a poster that demands that an apartheid regime.

John Waters: I think the distinction is from their point of view:

“Well apartheid in South Africa was to do with an immutable characteristic. It was based on something that you couldn’t change about yourself. You couldn’t decide whether you were White, or black. But you can decide whether you’re vaccinated, or unvaccinated. And if you’re making the wrong choice there, then you deserve to be condemned, because it’s a choice you’re making to endanger the rest of us!”

John Waters: Well yeah. But you see in other guys, the very same people, talk of choice as well. They said “choice” is one of those good words. I mean, “discrimination” is a bad word. Choice is actually their corresponding good word, that they use all the time. But suddenly that’s evaporated. No. I don’t think there’s any way of justifying this. I just think that they’re actually, …

Woes: Oh no! I’m not trying to justify! Just saying how they would, …

John Waters: My point is that I know what they say, but like, it’s all for the birds, because this is actually apartheid. I mean, they keep saying:

“Oh, it’s not comparable!”

It is comparable. This is actually discriminating against people on the basis of their choice, of their right to bodily integrity, of their fear of the consequences, of the fact that already the evidence is clear! And is it clear that the media are covering it up, that these are very dangerous substances that are being injected into people’s bodies!

In Ireland here and I think this is pretty true, so far as people have done research everywhere, or anywhere, that the pattern of excess mortality, is very clear for 2021.

Woes: Now this is remarkable! It’s remarkable with the sports stars. And there was another one with airline pilots.

John Waters: Yeah.

Woes: I think it was a particular company. And all the pilots who died it was like five in 2020, five, or six in 2019, and dozens in this year! And I’ve got to check whether it’s real, or not, because it’s just incredible!

[36:13]

John Waters: Let me tell you how real it is, because like just to stay at the beginning at the very start of this it was agreed informally between everybody that the measure of all this in the end would be excess mortality that’s always all-cause mortality that’s how you decide if there was an epidemic, or not, or a pandemic. And in 2020 there wasn’t anywhere. There were those spikes in April 2020. But they were actually old people in nursing homes. And the people who died in April as it were didn’t die in June may June, July, August, September right. So there was a dip afterwards. And that was orchestrated there’s no question about it, or is this created by stress and Midazolam. And all of these kind of and maybe a certain amount of neglect. As well.

Now the pattern in 2021 is really interesting, because it’s actually entirely to do with the vaccines. And you can see this correlation on the graph. Several sets of people have been doing studies of this in Ireland it’s very easy, because there’s one website which contains death notices. And pretty much everybody who dies in Ireland is in there sometimes they’re in twice, or three times sick for different reasons different family members. But if you weed those out then you can get a certain sense of it.

Now there are some differences between the different sets of research I’ve seen on the graph. But broadly it’s saying this that in January, February there was a massive spike. And that was when from the 8th of January the vaccines were rolled out in the nursing homes first. And that’s where that happened. Massive spike!

Then there was a lull a dip in March. And then from April when they were after the vaccine started going moving down the demographics they started to climb inexorably. And has continued to climb up to the last few weeks and I presume it’s still climbing.

And there’s a particular feature of it that the increase from April through to now has been predominantly not among older people but among deaths which are their codeword are there, you know, certain words that you find in the notices sudden suddenly right unexpectedly after a short illness. Those three categories have actually gone up by about 20% in that period.

So what you’re actually looking at now over that over the year there will be something like 20% of an increase of a spike in deaths overall. That’s compared to last year when there was nothing. And that will in Ireland, I mean, Ireland obviously is much smaller country to Britain.

But it’s so we have a population about five million. So we have something like 30,000 deaths a year. That will be an extra four to five thousand deaths. Now in that’s in one year from the from one thing, because there’s a clear correlation. In Northern Ireland in the 30 years between the 70s, 80s, 90s, something like 3,000 people died from the troubles. And there was non-stop coverage of that. Rightly so, of course. There’s been no coverage of this at all.

Woes: And this is one of the really staggering things about you realize how manipulated and manipulative the news is when things are just they just decree whether something is important, or not. And it’s something that clearly is important [40:00] I mean, like vast numbers of deaths that like it’s just not remarked upon. It’s quite incredible to what to witness this.

John Waters: I mean, I that’s a way of putting it. But I mean, it’s like there is a deliberate strategy of avoidance. That’s clear it’s not that they don’t know. I mean, I’ve told them I’ve published this. And I’ve drawn people’s attention to it. It’s clear. It’s no secret! It takes a little bit of work to do the analysis. Because you have to wade in and start counting and then eliminate the various duplications and whatnot. But it’s an amazing story. I mean, it should be a front-page news story instead of some of the.

Woes: Yeah that tedious work is exactly the work that journalists should be doing.

John Waters: Yeah.

Woes: That’s what they used to do, or suppose.

John Waters: The only reason they exist is. The only reason journalism exists, you know, I mean, unless. It’s just an entertainment business which I never thought it was. And it’s not particularly entertaining anymore anyway.

So I mean, this is shocking to me as somebody who was a journalist in the mainstream for like 30 odd years. I just cannot get my head around that there are actually people who sat at meetings and espoused again ethical view values and, you know, principles and codes and all this sort of stuff, are now sort of saying oh well, you know, that’s there’s a pandemic answer we haven’t got time to do that.

Woes: Yeah, I suppose that. I don’t know what to say about this, because it’s so overwhelming when you realize I mean. Recently there was the terror attack in America, Waukesha. Can never remember how to pronounce it. And it’s been completely memory-holed. The media just aren’t talking about it, even though it was clearly a terror attack it was clearly a mass killing. It’s the same with the grooming gangs in Britain, largely Pakistani perpetrators, largely White victims.

So I was accustomed to this stuff but where they just choose what to report and what to bury. And then I was accustomed to them lying about things and twisting things with the Hillary Clinton, Epstein, of course, that sort of thing. Going on about Trump from the four years of his presidency. And I’m not Trump isn’t my kind of guy. I’m not, you know, gonna say he’s I thought he was a wonderful guy but clearly they were lying about him again, and again. And again the Russia narrative.

So the media. I think by the end of the 2010s. I think a lot of people certainly on in the dissident Right had developed a contempt for the media and an assumption that it was rarely honest. But even so, the Covid era has brought, it’s just a quantum leap really!

John Waters: Well. I think one of the things that all these people seem to have figured out. And I mean, I have to confess here something that I think that actually, I overestimated when I was a journalist and I overestimated the value of journalism in that sense, or at least the penetration of journalism. I misunderstood I think, or bigged up in my own head in the significance of journalism in terms of telling people what’s happening.

Kind of assume you write an article, you expose something, people read it. And they’re saying oh that’s terrible why isn’t something being done about that and that starts something. And sometimes it does.

But actually. I think they’ve actually realized now that that actually. You don’t have to do any of that stuff what you just do is. There’s a kind of a mechanism whereby by repetition you kind of build up an impression in the public mind that something is important. It isn’t the facts of the story that suggests it’s important anymore. It’s the number of times it’s repeated and the places it’s repeated and the status is given on the front page of the newspaper, or in the headlines of the news and the radio, or the TV..

And so that they can actually publish something without publishing it in a sense! They can put it in there, but people it actually yeah it count it actually acts counter to the idea of publishing it, because people see it they see it in a significant and insignificant place in the newspaper. And I think it’s not very important they just fill in space with that.

Like if people are listening if somebody’s listening to say the news at six o’clock. And there’s a story on maybe a fourth, or fifth string story. That’s oh that’s very interesting what’s all about did you hear that. And then the wait for the nine o’clock news. And they said well I find out more about [45:01] their thing. And it’s not on the nine o’clock news. And it all kind of just dissolves. And they say oh that must have been very I must have imagined that I got it wrong yeah, sorry no no.

And you see there’s all on the other side of this then there’s this other strange thing whereby these the authorities have figured out, journalists are doing it all the time that, for example, this trope about the far-Right and Covid. I mean, that’s patent nonsense! Everybody who, you know, it’s just complete patent nonsense!

Like there are no neo-Nazis on, you know, fighting against Covid in Britain, or Ireland, or any of those places, as far as I know, I haven’t seen any. They don’t exist! In Ireland there are no, …

In fact, politico did a survey there recently of the far-Right in European countries and their far Left publication, or platform. And they found that they had various amounts in France and Germany.

And so on, in Ireland they found zero! Zero far-Right! But that doesn’t stop our police force. The Guardish yakona from doing articles the head of the Special Branch gives interviews where he talks about the menace of the far-Right. And you read these articles. And there’s actually nothing in them in terms of concrete evidence. Other than him saying there’s nothing whatsoever!

Woes: It’s a similar thing in Britain. The head of counterterrorism said. I think he said that the main threat was from far-Right terrorists.

John Waters: Yeah.

Woes: But you only have to look at the statistics to see that that cannot be the case. I mean, it’s just a ridiculous thing.

John Waters: But by repetition then you get the objective is to get the guy in the street to keep it to say it.

Woes: Yeah, it’s just internalizing it through repetition. I mean, again you could say it’s a kind of hypnosis. I mean, the word Omicron probably nobody knows anything about it! They might have heard contradictory things about the Omicron variant. Is it less severe is it more severe is it more contagious less contagious is indeed is it more transmissible. They might have no real idea about it except that they’ve heard it that the word Omicron again, and again, and again! And it’s being associated with a need for another booster shot! Another lockdown! So it must be serious.

John Waters: Well, hang on that’s really interesting. Because that’s something that’s been striking me now about it. That in this year there has been this strange escalation of the slyness, or the brazenness, of the authorities, in terms of the lies they’re telling. They’re not even bothering to cover up anymore.

In 2020 they were trying to kind of fiddle the figures, in plain sight. But they weren’t really like then they would own up and say oh well we don’t really count to a comment like that we counted a different way if you fall off a roof that’s a Covid. And you test for Covid that’s called. They would sort of say things like that and that’s terrible.

But what they’ve actually done this year is actually much worse, because those statistics of deaths right. You would imagine that the ones that I just thought outlined there a few minutes ago. You would imagine that they present a real problem for the authorities in 2021 right. So you would imagine therefore that they would be trying to claim them. They would be trying to do what they did in 2020 which is fiddle the figures to make it look like well that’s Covid. They’re not doing that! They haven’t been doing that!

So that at the end of the year there’s going to be 5,000 extra deaths, or something like that right. And you would think. Well, they’re going to have an explanation. But they know they’re not. They know that they’ve created a culture that is not going to even focus on that! Isn’t going to think about that. And they’ve got a media that won’t report it. So nobody will know! We wouldn’t you’ll not know that there’s five thousand people that died of the vaccine and everybody says vaccines? What?

Woes: Yeah. And then they’ve got the word anti-vaxxer in their head to oh yeah discredit you. So they don’t need to worry about it they don’t need to think about it he’s just an anti-vaxxer.

John Waters: Oh. Yeah.

Woes: Are you one of the tinfoil hat wearers?

John Waters: Yes that’s a very funny joke, you know, yeah like that’s involved. If you say tin foil, you have to be laughing when you say it. Yeah, it’s a funny joke.

Woes: But the other thing is that they haven’t said the excess deaths. They’re obviously desperate for it not to be associated with the vaccine. So what I’ve seen them do is just associate it with Covid. In fact, I’ve even seen Covid related death right after this poor girl was vaccinated. She died from a Covid related death, because it is technically Covid related, so the words are true. It is related to Covid. And because of the vaccine she got from Covid.

[50:00]

John Waters: There was a big bizarre thing that showed up in the British figures the ONS figures there a couple of weeks ago. And this is again part of the success of the hypnosis. That it was showing like the relative numbers of deaths in the vaccinated as against the unvaccinated right.

And there is this pattern which you can see quite clearly at the peak of vaccination rollout is followed about two to three weeks later by peaking deaths right. That’s kind of more that’s what the relationship is.

But it was showing up this amazing thing whereby that the deaths in the unvaccinated were corresponding exactly to the peaks of the vaccination rollout, right? Immediately. So that immediately after the vaccination at peak in the vaccination rollout there would be a peak in the deaths of the unvaccinated, right.!

Now, can you think what might be the solution to this conundrum? How could this happen? It’s very simple! It’s very simple! The rule is that if you die within 14 days of getting, …

Woes: Ah! Oh my god! That’s why!

John Waters: You’re unvaccinated! You’re treated as unvaccinated! So that peak is actually vaccinated people who are unvaccinated!

Woes: Right! Right. And, of course, that will also happen at the other end as well, because after six months you’re no longer considered vaccinated. So if you then die you’ll be added to the unvaccinated.

John Waters: That’s right, yeah. And so and that’s right you see and, of course, the very fact that all vaccines are have an end date. In other words, they elapse. That means that the deaths from the vaccination will lapse terminally in every situation.

So as soon as they stop the vaccination roll out, if they do, then a few months later, six months later, then anybody who dies after that, they died from something else! Nothing to do with the vaccination! I mean, this is a level of sleight of hand and of three card trickery that is, you know, as I say I keep saying peace time. In a time before this horror show.

Okay like it would be absolutely unthinkable that anybody could get away with it! For the simple reason that journalists would say are you having a laugh?

Woes: Yeah. It would have been seen as actually disgraceful to be this dishonest!

John Waters: And the journalists who would have been saying that, are now, what are they doing? They’re writing articles attacking the unvaccinated! That’s what they’re doing.

Woes: Yeah, I guess one of the big takeaways from all of this is just how malleable people are. And I think that has shocked everyone. I can’t remember if this was said during last year’s Millenniyule. But it’s something I’ve been talking about a lot this year, is that something we have to get used to something we have to accept is that we are the outsiders.

And the majority of people are just not of this mentality. They just don’t have the nature to question authority, because they have a need to believe in the institutions of their society. They have a need to believe that their society is good. And that it has integrity. And those in authority have integrity. And that those in authority care about them.

Because the alternative is terrifying to them! And it’s terrifying to me! And if I were to focus on it for any length of time it would get it’s a scary thought. That those in power really don’t care about you! Are just a bundle of molecules to them. And it doesn’t matter.

John Waters: And that they’re actually a danger to you in certain circumstances, you know what I mean. That if you went into a hospital.

Woes: Clearly, they are a danger to us.

John Waters: Yeah. If you went into hospital. And you had some kind of asthmatic attack, or something they could put you under. They might need to bump up the figures. They wouldn’t care whether you died. Let’s just say like this. They wouldn’t care that much if you died.

Woes: Well we know that they don’t, because they’re continuing with this vaccine roll out when clearly it has the effect of killing a certain percentage of people.

John Waters: This is a real staggering thing. But the fact that someone people are asleep through it and won’t actually when it’s over if it ever is, will not remember it, means that in a certain sense it hasn’t happened. Except for us who are obviously paranoid anti-vaxxers! So that’s easy to deal with.

But I there’s a bigger problem and I as well I know that is. I mean, that sounds weird. But there’s a different problem, which is in the area of personal relationships. And I don’t know how to deal with this in a way, because clearly it has absolutely blighted so many relationships, possibly permanently, or potentially permanently.

[55:01]

And I’m only beginning to struggle with this now. And what I’m trying to do, is to kind of marry these kind of shock, the sense of shock, with the other idea that these people are hypnotized. Therefore they’re in a certain sense as if they’re kind of like inspelled, or entranced. And that’s kind of like almost like a kind of an illness in itself.

So that they deserve to be treated. Even though they’re driving us crazy. And even though they might even be attacking us. That they’re actually not entirely there. It’s not them. And going to have to find some way, not even for their sake, but for our own sake as time goes on to try to come to terms with this in a different way than with anger, or, …

Woes: Oh yeah, because you’re arguing not only with the possession. But you’re also arguing with the aspect of human nature which enables them to be possessed.

John Waters: Yeah.

Woes: Again it’s always a hopeless Endeavor to argue with human nature. You just have to accept it. Because otherwise you’re on a hiding to nothing. So I agree with you and I think that it also absolves you of, frees you from the need to be angry with them. So it’s a there’s the old platitude, forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Which is its a platitude. But it’s also true.

John Waters: Yeah. Another one actually there’s another great one which Elvis said. In one of his movies I can’t remember which one. But it was:

“Hate bites its own tail!”

And that’s really true. That we’re actually we do need that’s our next project in a sense as this develops is to find a way. We have to find a way to be, … I hate words like being more compassionate and all that kind of stuff. It sounds very, very quiet.

Woes: Yeah and I wouldn’t want to get too soft about it either, because a little bit, …

John Waters: Yeah we’ve got to be rigorous as well. It’s kind of tough love in a certain sense. I don’t like that phrase either much. But it’s got to be kind of like okay you’re not well, you know, but no hard feelings. But so I hope you sort yourself out! That vibe. And, you know, I’d help you. I’ll help you.

It’s like you’re dealing with an addict, or an alcoholic, you know, you’ve got to want to stop. And if you do. I’m your best friend. But at the moment I’m not going to enable you in your present situation.

Woes: Exactly! It’s kind of perhaps an analogy would be the friend who is getting over a relationship and he’s obsessed with her and he won’t stop talking about her. And you’re thinking right what this is really boring hearing him endlessly talk about this hopeless relationship that was never going to work out. But I’ve got to tolerate him doing this. And I’m going to be there for him. And hopefully one day he won’t be like this anymore. And I can try to take his mind off it in the meantime. But don’t hold that against him as an intrinsic part of his character that he is like this, because it’s just it is the way he is.

John Waters: Yeah. I think that’s right you’ve got to kind of say the things that will hopefully maybe not immediately he might react against you now. But when he thinks about it. Like a friend once said to a friend of mine, if this is your idea of love I wouldn’t like to see your idea of hate! Like that kind of message is kind of what we need to deliver to people like this.

And it’s hard to kind of know how what realm to couch it in. Like do you stay look it’s the end of the world, by the way. And it’s not a health issue.

Like when you hear that Kaiser Chief’s thing like you’re reminded again that there’s a whole section of the population a very large section including hip and trendy and intelligent beings, who actually think this is completely real. And that there’s some kind of mortal threat to the lives of young people arising from this head cold.

Woes: And a moral threat arising from the anti-vaxxers.

John Waters: Yeah, it’s quite a shocking thing really. And here’s the thing that we’re here struggling for words and I presume like there are people like philosophers and poets and all those who deal with words at that level all the time. I’m a journalist I’m a writer but I’m not, you know, I’m talking about a more elevated sense of the meaning of things in linguistic terms, and in conceptual terms. And they’re all on the wrong side.

Woes: Yes. And this is another aspect of it that we could go into. That it’s [60:00] depressing how the people we rely on to be objective and impartial. And to be able to think out of the box. And the people we always thought could do that, have actually turned out to be very conformist, and unadventurous, in their thinking and doctrinaire.

Yeah, it’s quite remarkable. I mean, off the cuff I don’t want to I can’t think of any examples but throughout the year it’s been like one public commentator after another who I thought would have been a bit more rebellious, a bit more open-minded.

John Waters: But actually, they’re several. I mean, one interesting one is Jordan Peterson. Because I wrote a long essay about him in the middle of the year. Now, you know, it’s complicated, because he had been ill. And I’ve been ill before that, around the same maybe a few months before. But he was very ill. And so he was kind of out of the game.

And then he came back in 2020 somewhere in the middle of the year maybe. And he just didn’t seem to be aware. He was kind of like if he said anything about it he was treating it like it was like literally as they said. And earlier this year he actually said something about the vaccines. And he more, or less, said. Well, I’ve taken the vaccine. And he more, or less, said to people yeah we’ll take the damn vaccine!

And then I noticed that watching his streams that when somebody came up when any of these kind of interviewees would bring it up, he kind of ducked. And let them talk a little bit and then change the subject.

And so, but now he started to harden. He started now to talk, … Now the context of this is that he was like the guy who talked about one of these things. And the Nazi thing. And the Soviet thing and so on. And he couldn’t seem to put it together. And he is now beginning to.

But there’s a strange quirk actually in America. And I can’t figure this out, even though I spent a lot of time over and back to America in recent years. And listening to. I mean, I’m very much influenced by a lot of American kind of voices, like Victor Davis Hanson, and Steve Bannon. People like that. I would listen to.

But there’s a weird kind of thread in their responses by and large, to the whole thing. They don’t see it as we see it over here. They don’t see it as clearly. It’s kind of like [words unclear] to them, or something.

Woes: Yeah. The American experience of Covid seems to have been very different from the European experience. And the Canadian and the Australian experience, because they’re hardcore! I mean, you’ll know about Australia. Canada’s just a bit behind Australia. But America they seem to, I don’t know, I think the libertarian aspect of America seems to have held a bit more than it has. It seems to protected them from the excesses of it a bit. At any rate they don’t see like the commentators on our side don’t seem to be as bothered about it as we are.

John Waters: No! No they’re not! And, or fact well they seem to take it more literally than we do. Now it’s very interesting. Because, I mean, there is one of the best kind of academics are on the whole thing has been Danny Rancor he’s a Canadian scientist.

And he’s done amazing analysis of the thing. And he basically says that this was an international crime, you know. It was basically murder, manslaughter, on a wholesale, on a mass scale! And he can back it up. And he’s done studies in America and all over the world, where he talks about this peak from April 2020.

He talks about what happened in America. And he basically showed in region to region, how you can account for the death figure without actually going anywhere near Covid, or anything like that. And it’s amazing stuff. Like they’re really detailed studies.

But mostly they kind of skirt around it. And they kind of its like oh. Yeah, there’s just pandemic going on and yeah but, you know, Trump is going to be elected in 2024 that’s kind of the vibe you get from a lot of these people.

Woes: Yeah it doesn’t seem to be an existential thing for them. It’s just they seem to see it as a bit of a quirky annoyance.

Woes: Yeah.

Woes: It’s a bit amusing, it is annoying. But it’s also kind of funny. And yeah us, is deadly serious.

John Waters: Yeah, it’s almost just the end of the world like. But not, because Covid is going to kill everybody, because of everything else. And the fact that the vaccine is killing everybody, and what not. I mean, that’s a kind of a general rule.

But there are exceptions obviously. Some great doctors amazing [65:00] doctors actually coming out of America. Peter McCulloch and those guys are really phenomenal. As [word unclear] and, you know, amazing guys. So it comes back to this thing though that for me the world has kind of come to an end in effect, you know, I mean, until it starts again, it has come to an end. I mean, it’s literally stopped on its axis.

Woes: Exactly. I would say it’s nothing short of that. I think I agree with you. That’s the seriousness of the situation it feels like an era has ended! The era that you and I knew has ended! That we spent the rest of our lives that up until this, it was a different era.

John Waters: Well, also it’s like as if to mix the metaphor a little bit it’s like some monster has stretched down from outer space and taking a bite out of our lives like! And is now intent upon eating what’s left of them! These people without any authority whatsoever, without any democratic mandate, without anything that you could call, you know, constitutional, in any context, any meaning that you might attach to it.

They’ve just decided to do this to us. And without mercy, without compassion, without, you know, clemency. With this intense cruelty that they allow people to die! They enforce it! They force people to die alone! This can’t be ever erased from history, in my opinion! There are people, I heard Zelenko talking. And he said:

“This is the greatest crime in history!”

Like there’s a part of me that withdraws from that idea. But did I think about it well actually it’s pretty close now. And it’s only starting from what we know. They’re telling us, it’s only started.

So yeah. This is the biggest crime in history.

Woes: I mean, I wouldn’t, … I’ll not go along with that for now. I wouldn’t agree with that for now. But I wouldn’t be surprised if, you know, this time next year I’m saying the same thing. Because it does seem like the deaths can only rise. And the more shots of the vaccine are administered the more it’s going to damage people’s immune systems, cause blood clots, the myocarditis, etc.,

[67:22]

John Waters: I’m actually afraid to say some of the things I know about from what I’ve heard, from very authoritative sources who have been right every step of the way. Because what they’re saying is so scary, because it encroaches on virtually every family. Virtually every family in the world, maybe, are affected by this. And it’s a time bomb, waiting in that family, of grief.

Woes: Yeah.

John Waters: And it’s happened already. And it can’t be reversed. That’s what the wrinkle means. And that’s what I mean.

Woes: Yeah. And, of course, where your mind naturally goes to upon hearing that is:

“Well the institutions of society will surely punish those responsible.”

But what we’ve seen over the last two years is that actually isn’t very likely. That there’s obviously a deep corruption and deep and wide corruption in our society. Such that people get away with these things if they’re powerful enough.

John Waters: This is the interesting thing Colin. This is something that I’ve talked about a lot, because you see we’ve grown up in kind of Hollywood culture, you know, we went to the cinema and that no matter how horrific the movie is, the ending’s going to be okay. The good guys are going to win. The cavalry is going to arrive. Clint’s going to clean up the town. In history as well. Like the field of World War One, World War Two. Like there were two sides. The cavalry was there as well.

Now we could get into either one of those and start arguing and talking about the true meaning of it in the context of what we were saying earlier about everything we know being wrong. With just assuming that everything, …

Woes: But from the point of view of someone in that situation, yeah.

John Waters: Here, there is no cavalry! Everybody’s on the one side. It’s a Spaghetti Western and everybody’s got those droopy mustaches that has that evil laugh. There’s nobody else! There’s no Clint [Eastwood]! Where are we going to find Clint?

I mean, there are a few, there’s a raggle taggle of anti-vaxxer, far-Right conspiracy theorists. Yeah! And, you know, shake those off if you can. And still be able to stand up and fight these effers! But really unless some magic some, deus ex machina appears, and almost literally, it’s not looking good!

[70:04]

Woes: Yeah. Another part of this that I wanted to something you said a few minutes ago made me think of this. The institutions that we thought, … What’s happened is against various aspects of our culture and our legal systems, our moral systems. And so it’s amazing that it’s happened.

And so what that inspires is well okay maybe the power isn’t where we thought it lay. Maybe the power lies elsewhere and these national institutions, these Democratic institutions are actually really not the real seats of power in this age. And actually it’s something else.

John Waters: Yeah. And there’s a very malign and sinister aspect to that as well, which only occurred to me. I was talking to somebody today, and just came into my head like that because of the pyramid structure of power and the compartmentalization of the layers.

So that there’s a need to know mechanism working its way down. That even though at the very top the intent may be pure evil. And as far as we know it is. By the time it gets down about three-quarters of the way to the level of say national governments, the compartmentalization has actually removed the knowledge of forethought aspect. And they can may very well be literally implementing a rational a programme to stop a pandemic.

Woes: Yeah, they might well be implementing evil. But under the auspices of good. They might think that they’re doing right the right thing.

John Waters: Yeah, that’s a function of the nature of the thing you said. Because that’s happened in our in the last 50 years in power where countries through the globalist model handed power upwards. And with that came that kind of double-edged thing of compartmentalization, need to know, but also plausible deniability.

Woes: Yeah, exactly! They’re ceding authority. But they’re also ceding sovereignty. And that they need to have their own information. They’re giving that responsibility away. So that they are then left in the dark. And progressively more, and more, in the dark.

John Waters: Yeah, because myself, and a colleague Gerald O’Doherty [sp] took a legal action against this at the very start. A constitutional action here in Ireland. And we were kicked back in the High Court, and again in the Court of Appeal.

But the Supreme Court, which we’ve appealed, have now given us the right to a hearing. Which will consider whether we should have been denied this leave to for judicial review.

But the fundamental point here is that we’re basically saying – there’s lots of things we’re saying – but fundamentally it comes down to this idea that what happened was wrong, because we have rights which are given to us as of nature, as of our humanity. And they can only be overturned, or suspended in the most extreme situations, for the shortest possible time, on a completely proportionate basis.

You see the logic that these people have used is the idea that they apply the precautionary principle. They were told it was a terrible pandemic. The experts said it’s terrible, the model said:

“Oh my god! Everybody’s going to die!”

You know, precautionary principle. But the precautionary principle doesn’t, you know, simply go in one direction. That you said, basically you assume the worst, right? But then you have to say:

“Okay in assuming the worst, and applying certain measures what effects will they have? So we measure back from that side as well. And in the middle, or whatever it will be at the mean point you decide, okay that’s where we’re going to go now.”

They didn’t do that. And they know they didn’t do it. But they’re simply saying:

“Well we just took the advice we got. And that’s the end of it.”

And that basically is the end of people’s constitutions, and their domestic laws and domestic protections. Because outsiders can just simply say:

“Oh there’s a terrible tsunami coming. Therefore you have to stay in your houses until we tell you not to leave.”

Woes: Dominic Cummings, I can never remember what his post was in the British government. I think he was an advisor, a government adviser to Boris Johnson. And he was being interrogated earlier this year I think around about May, sometime like that. And he said:

“That in March last year, March 2020, February, March, the government had no idea what to do about Covid. And then the people arrived from the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and had an entire programme already cooked up and ready to just be delivered to the British government. And they were able to say to them here! This here! This is what you’ve got to do. And it was all laid out.”

And so that brought clarity to the British government, and the civil servants, the politicians, whatever the advisers. And suddenly they knew what to do, because it had been delivered to them. I don’t know what the word would be, fait accompli, or something.

[75:39]

John Waters: An off the peg solution.

Woes: Yeah! Off the shelf. [chuckling] Yeah! It was just there, ready, pre-made! And suddenly they had directions. Suddenly they knew what to do. But prior to that they didn’t know what to do. And that was when Boris Johnson was saying:

“Well, let’s just go for hard immunity!”

That was what he was saying. The sensible thing! When they had no idea what to do, they were going with common sense! [laughing]

John Waters: They had a plan already! They had a plan already which was to allow to protect the most vulnerable as they say, and then let the thing work its way through the culture. And children act as a buffer to it more than adults, and it dies down. And that’s what happens. And that would have happened.

Woes: Yes.

John Waters: Everywhere. It happened in Sweden pretty much. It’s just we’ve gone through all this heartache. But, of course, it was never about our health. I have four rules, by the way, about this, which I tell people when you’re listening to politicians. Because sometimes they suck you into their logic, you know what I mean. Even if you don’t believe it, you kind of follow:

“Yeah, so that there might be a lockdown though. Because the cases are going up on you and they say, …”

No! No! First of all the worst rule is every single word that comes out of their mouth is a lie! Second rule is they’re not in charge! Third rule is its not about your health! Fourth rule is they’re trying to kill you! That kind takes care of all the other three as well.

Woes: And a fifth one would be, it’s not about their wealth! It’s not even about the politician’s own betterment, it’s about his superiors betterment.

John Waters: That’s right. I mean, as far as we can tell. I mean, there are there have been a few instances. I mean, there was that woman in New South Wales, …

Woes: Undoubtedly there are some. I mean, I know that Matt Hancock was at Davos a couple of years before all of this happened. And god knows what secret handshake deals he’s getting! I’m not implying anything, I don’t want to say that. I have no evidence of that. I’m just saying it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

I would expect that there are, of course, there will be some politicians who are benefiting from this financially. It would be incredible if that were not the case.

However, I think a mistake that people make, because everyone understands money, everyone understands profit seeking, and the desire for wealth, and greed. Everyone understands financial greed. And so I think a lot of people default to that as an explanation for things. Like:

“Well he did it for the money! He did it for the wealth! He’s selfish! He’s greedy! It’s all about money!”

But I don’t think it really is all about money. And I think that’s a kind of almost a cozy platitude that people tell themselves. I mean, it’s like the “go woke, go broke” thing, is absolutely not true! It’s simply not true!

Partly, because these companies these corporations are just too big to fail. It doesn’t matter if they lose some money. And but also because the power of the media is such that they won’t lose that much money. The media will shape people to receive that product.

John Waters: And sometimes you look at these guys as well. And you think that maybe another, … I mean, because there’s another trope, which is about the idea of blackmail. Because that’s considered to be one of the primary techniques of these elites. And that kind of fits a little bit.

Because, if you actually look at the demeanor of some of these guys, some of the time. They look frantic! They look completely demented sometimes. And they also are exhibiting a kind of an extraordinary zeal for this that doesn’t really seem to fit with what they’re actually describing, or even what, or anything like what happens.

But even the way they’re trying to exaggerate it, doesn’t quite seem to reach their level of intensity of their delivery. That we really have to take this. Like we have in our 96% allegedly vaccination. But they’re still threatening to kind of introduce measures against the unvaccinated. And so on, you know, in order to get the numbers up. Why?

We’re way past any concept of herd immunity. It doesn’t work anyway. Why? Oh, remember the rules. It’s not about your health! And so yeah. I mean, like it’s at this stage we’re looking at these guys, they’re completely strangers to us.

Boris Johnson, you know what is he going to do with the rest of his life if this just stops? I mean, what’s going on? Where is he going to go, that he’s not going to be a villain, in Britain? I don’t know.

I mean, why do people do this? I know the same is true of journalists, radio disc jockeys, all these who’ve been pumping this stuff out. Does it ever occur to them that actually this could be the end of everything? Their reputations in history, in their own time, in the rest of their lives, and after their lives?

So I don’t know, it’s the most shocking. I mean, I don’t hesitate for a moment and say this is actually, it’s literally, like to me it feels like the world has stopped on a axis. And we’re waiting to see will it start moving again. And it may never start moving again.

[80:56]

Woes: Yeah, yeah. And it does feel like an absolutely a pivotal moment in world history. I don’t think we’ll ever see anything as significant as this again. I think that 2020 was just a year, it was awful! It was the worst year that I’ve seen in terms of world events. And now, of course, that is just the start of this era. And I do think it’s an era.

It always amazes me how some people seem to think that this will just blow over.:

“Oh a year from now no one will be talking about Covid!”

John Waters: I get that from some of my readers on my Substack platform. They unsubscribe, or they treaten to unsubscribe saying:

“Oh, you’re always going on, it’s not all that significant about Covid. Why don’t you write about something?”

And then they mention something that is genuinely insignificant.

Woes: Yeah. Exactly! I’m the same. Like some people, not manyc but some of my viewers have said:

“Oh! You’re talking about Covid again!”

Yeah and I’m thinking:

“But there’s nothing else that is worth talking about. In the face of there’s everything else is irrelevant!”

John Waters: With that if we don’t come out of this intact, it’s all over! Like unless we win this war – it is a war – unless we win it, it’s the end of everything that we have ever known, and ever needed, and ever desired about human existence.

Woes: Yeah.

John Waters: This is the reality.

Woes: Exactly. I had UK Column on last night. And they said:

“It’s basically a war against evil.”

And it’s funny, because one of the aspects of 90s nihilism. And you see it now with Game of Thrones, it’s this idea that there’s no good and evil. But really there is. And there simply is! And I think this is why that nihilism has always offended me. Some people think it’s sophisticated to not believe in good and evil. Like these are childish concepts! And I understand that.

But I also just think that well there’s something in the fabric of reality that does require the presence, at least the concepts, of good and evil. And yeah, sorry.

John Waters: I totally agree. I mean, and I would have to say that I’ve been struggling with that, as well. Because I had a deficiency I realized, in that area. Like where I had a kind of an abstract understanding of evil. And a capacity to accept it in an abstract way. That I was balking at the implications of it. And actually genuinely think.

So I noticed that it’s almost like there’s some part of me that’s holding back and hoping that I’m going to be all wrong about everything here. That I’m going to be wrong. And there’s one day we wake up, and then:

“Ah!”

There’ll be somebody on the TV, or I’ll hear if something let’s say somebody was on the news at nine o’clock last night and they explained what it was. And it’s all very simple, because they had to do it, because ABCD. I said:

“Oh, thank god! I knew there was something! I knew there had to be! That it couldn’t be this dark, it couldn’t be this evil! It couldn’t be this horrific!”

Because I can’t imagine that. I’m not able to imagine it even when it’s happening. I can’t imagine the war. I can’t imagine my life has not told me anything in my direct experience that could end in this.

And yet objectively I look and I hear the things. Like I say, when I hear, when I know the things I think about the things I know, about what the vaccine has already done to people. And this comes from, he’s a very authoritative scientist. Oh my god! There’s no way out of this!

[85:07]

Woes: Yeah. I think that just to return to what I was saying a minute ago, I think that when you’re a child you believe in good and evil. It’s easy. And it is a childlike notion of binary. And then, as a teenager you sort of you rebel against that. And you rebel against black and White notions of things. And you tell yourself you’re clever and sophisticated for understanding that everything is in shades of grey.

But I think actually part of growing up beyond teenagehood and developing a genuinely mature attitude and worldview, is understanding that there actually are, for all intents and purposes, that there is good and evil in the world. And you really weren’t that sophisticated when you were a teenager and you thought you were so clever. More perceptive to acknowledge, in some sense, the presence of these things in the world.

John Waters: Yeah. And that that each of us has the potential for good, or for evil. And that is, as Solzhenitsyn said, the line goes right down through the human heart, one side is good, one side is evil. And it’s a question of how you manage to calibrate that in your life, and in your ethical outcome. And all of those things that you have to develop that.

But that’s what we thought civilization was! That it was making us all of one mind. And now as I say we find that it was a very thin ghost that was lying very lightly on the tops of our heads, barely touching, not even pressing down the hair, and whatever, other people’s heads. And now it’s blown away, and it’s gone.

And we’re trying to kind of find sentences to describe what we’re seeing and how it feels and what it might mean. And everybody’s telling us that we’re the bad guys! This is the shocking thing! That we’re the guys with the droopy mustaches!

Woes: Yeah. I mean, yeah. And I wouldn’t believe that for a second! The worst I would believe about us, is that we are addicted to being rebels, right. I think that’s the worst that I can imagine us being guilty of, is that we just have to be different! We just can’t, that there’s some silly aspect of our nature that causes us to just question any consensus.

John Waters: No. I don’t agree with that, …

Woes: Exactly. That’s how they would characterize, some of us, would be, …

John Waters: Oh. I see.

Woes: Yeah, I agree with you, that is not the case.

John Waters: No.

Woes: Because frankly I was well past that sort of rebellious phase!

John Waters: No, it’s your life! I mean, in my experiences you were prepared to believe anything, other than that the system is terrible, that it is corrupt, that it is unjust. And it’s only after experience, after experience, after experience, with me, that I finally have come to this point.

I mean, if you read the things I was writing 30 years ago. Like they’re pretty mainstream. I mean, slightly rebellious in a certain sense, culturally. But insofar as the system was, I was believing in the Democratic system. I was believing in the political system. I was talking about it seriously. I wrote books which took it very seriously. I believed in justice. And so on.

But then I had a series of experiences that said to me, I couldn’t equate it. It didn’t compute! And gradually I started to kind of move to more what you might call eccentric, in the literal objective senses, just outside the centre positions. And this is where I ended up. And ultimately like that seems right! Insofar as that everything I see now in there, is so rotten! That I am relieved that I got out when I did.

I would hate to be in there and have to kind of equivocate in any way. What would you do? Like well, I don’t know! I can’t say for sure what I would do if I was still in there. Like I would hope that I would just put on my coat one day, and just walk away from all this. And start throwing things in, back into the tent. I hope so.

Well I’m glad that I didn’t have to make that choice.

Woes: Yeah. I think that’s a nice point to end on that, yeah, the situation is very frightening. But at least we have the dignity of intellectual freedom. The intellectual liberty that enables us to judge this as human beings. And there might be some advantages to being hypnotized. And part of that mass. But there are some indignities in it too.

And certainly it seems to lead to very practical misfortunes, as well.

John Waters: It does. Yeah it does. I do think that in the coming year now that we’ve kind of moved to the second year. We have to now maybe change our approach, to try and shake off the strong emotions, particularly the anger. Because that’s going to kill us! Because the injustice of this is so phenomenal! That whatever that mechanism within us that calibrates justice, and fairness, and rightness, and wrongness, it’s kind of overheating massively as a result of the outrage we feel at this.

And I think we’ve got to try and find a way of winding that back down, that spring. To unwind it, sort of loosen it up a little bit. Otherwise it’ll just go on a crack. And we’re going to explode.

So I think that’s the next phase, because it’s quite clear, they’re saying it now quite openly. This is going to go on for several more years, like this, probably worse. And they could well, come the spring, or the early summer, try to mandate vaccines. We don’t know. They’re going to do it in Austria. They want to possibly do it in Germany. They may do it in Ireland. We don’t know.

And if they will do it for four percent of the population, like allegedly. That’s what’s left. Like what sense does that make? What is that about?

Well, we know what it’s about, because It’s not about your health! It’s about what we haven’t gone into. But it’s about one of those stones, which fitted perfectly, and it’s over here on my wall. And we know what it is. It’s surveillance! And it’s ID! And the global grade and all that.

But we where we have to pull back. Not in a sense of retreating. But for our own sake. And for the sake of the people that we love, or loved, or grew up with, or that we’re now estranged from, to try to find some way to them. Because that’s to rescue them. It’s like literally that they’re on a ledge. And we’ve got to get up there without frightening them, so they jump. It’s a bit like that.

And so it’s a heavy one. It’s a really heavy one. I lost you there.

[92:20]

Woes: Oh sorry! I was muted. Yeah, I agree it is a heavy one. And I think it would be a good idea for us to try to be calm about it. Because it is very easy to feel irate, and angry, and scared, and outraged, at the injustice of it all.

But that hasn’t helped us to reach the public, or at least there’s a limit to how much it will help us. I think in ultimately we need to be as cool-headed as possible in order to seem credible to them. But also just in order for us to stay safe.

John Waters: To survive. I mean, no no. I mean, that anger has been legitimate up to now, I think, and natural. And it would still be further for a while. But I think we should begin to think about finding another way that will allow us to approach people in a different way. To kind of send out a different energy, you know what I mean?

It’s like when I was a young guy, you know, we used to be going out and chasing women, and all that. If you were trying too hard [Woes breaks out in loud laughter], like they could sniff desperation at 150 yards! And it’s a little bit like that. Like, if you’re sending out that angry vibe, you’re not going to be very good at talking people off that ledge.

Woes: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I hope that next year you’ll come back on. And we can review what’s happened. But then even as I say that I think.:

“Well, what are you talking about? It might be a year of horrible things that we end up talking about!”

But at least we can talk about them in a nice civilized way.

John Waters: We can, yeah. But also there’s a possibility, you know, I mean, any time that the cavalry will come over, that there is a cavalry somewhere. And they’re going to come over the hill, you know. In some sense.

Woes: Well, that is important to bear in mind. It is very easy to think that this is just a juggernaut, a behemoth. And that there is no alternative power centre to the one that’s currently orchestrating things. Who knows?

You know, history is replete, history is the story of one elite supplanting another elite, over, and over, again. It does happen! And it might take in our age, it might take something this massive, this momentous, to trigger that, to start happening. I’m not sure. But that’s certainly something that could happen.

But anyway let’s leave it at that, because this has been a fascinating discussion. I’ve really enjoyed it. And I think, … Oh, actually, there are, … I should check for the questions!

[95:01]

Hold on a second, hold on. Sorry, I should have gone through this before now:

“All Irish mainstream media benefit from the pandemic. They are even selling books on the pandemic for Christmas!”

Yeah.

John Waters: That’s right. Yeah. The national broadcaster is a disgrace! They’re taking money from all kinds of chemical industries, advertising, all that. I mean, Ireland is owned essentially by Big Pharma. We had a massive pharmaceutical conference here. So this is, in a sense, inevitable, that a medical dictatorship, if it were to start anywhere, it would start here.

Woes: Yes! Yeah. And there is a lot that could be said about that. About the unique condition of Ireland in all of this.

John Waters: Yes. There’s a lot. A lot of things, history continues.

Woes: And someone says:

“Merry Christmas! You are the best in the business thank you. I don’t know whether he’s referring to you, or me. [chuckling] But either way, thank you.

 

John Waters: Definitely sounds like Yukon. I mean, it’s, … No, no. I think [chuckling] he’s probably talking about you. You’ve been working hard these days, I know.

Woes: Yes.

John Waters: Very few in the mainstream media are doing that.

Woes: Probably [chuckling] I’m working harder than most of them, yeah! I would think. So so thank you very much for that Superchat and that donation. Very kind.

Soccer City asks:

“Does John think that the vaccine affects fertility?”

And I should apologize to Soccer City, because they asked the same question of a previous guest, and I didn’t see it in time. I apologize for that.:

“Do you think that the vaccine affects fertility? And if so by how much?”

John Waters: Well I’m not a medical person. So I wouldn’t know. But what I do know is people I trust, say that it absolutely does! People like Dr Peter McCullough.

If you want to go into that, he’s done several videos and he talks about that in detail. And he talks about it effects both on males and females. That is actually that it has elements in it that attack the fertility of males and females. Very, very radically. And I mean, we’ve seen already that the numbers of stillbirths that have risen from the vaccine. And so on.

Woes: I’ve heard about that. Apparently the spike protein, if I’ve heard it correctly, the spike proteins are concentrated in the testes and the ovaries.

John Waters: That’s correct.

Woes: So that is rather scary. But again this is to do with the corruption that we’re living with. That this is the kind of thing that absolutely should be investigated. And what’s the word? Quantified. But it doesn’t. No one seems to be doing it.

John Waters: Nobody. Yeah, this is the shocking thing about it. To put it in a very kind of basic way that there’s no authority. There is no good authority!

Actually Robert Bly, the American poet and writer died there a few weeks ago. And he wrote a book back 25 years ago called, The Sibling Society. In which he predicted that in the time to come, which is kind of now, that there would be a society which would have no adults. And that it would be kind of a mob of rivalrous siblings, squabbling with each other, and pounding the chests of their fathers and calling them fascists! Well! Here we are!

Woes: Yeah.

John Waters: And there are no adults! There are no grey-suited men, or grey-suited women to rap on the counter and say, or on the desk, or on the window, and say:

“No!”

Woes: Yeah. Indeed there don’t seem to be serious people on it. Well if there are, they’re certainly not in the mainstream media. And they’re banned from YouTube!

John Waters: They’re not very serious!

Woes: Yeah. It’s a ridiculous situation. And again one that I never thought, … In the 90s, and the 2000s we had this idea that freedom of speech was an essential, it was a given. And that was a protection against society going down a bad path. And so freedom of speech has been shut down on social media. So that society can go down this bad path.

John Waters: Yeah. And nobody understands anymore that concept. The right to dispute and to argue. That actually keeps our freedoms secure. Nobody gets that anymore! And, if you try to explain to them, the concepts are alien to them.

[100:02]

Woes: Yeah.

John Waters: So this is again an education problem. Of course, this has been in preparation going back to the puppet masters.

Woes: Yeah. And they’ve created the concept of “hate speech”. So, you don’t need freedom, the only people who need freedom of speech are the people who want to spew out “hate speech”. So, it’s only “bad people” who would want us. Therefore we don’t need it!

John Waters: But curiously the concept of hate speech doesn’t cover the kind of journalists who have been spewing out hatred against people who are unvaccinated, for the past few months!

Woes: Yeah, or demonizing people like you and me.

John Waters: Yeah.

Woes: I mean, it’s disgusting!

John Waters: This is part of what we need to do, we need to stop tying our brains in knots, trying to figure out how people can be so unreasonable.

Woes: Yeah, yes! We need to just get used to it, and accept, …

John Waters: What could I possibly say to straighten out their cognitive wiring? Well, actually nothing! Just go home to bed [Woes laughs loudly]. Don’t even think about it!

Woes: All right. The final, it’s not a question, it’s just a comment. And this is from Garlic Farmer. And he says:

“Important conversation with Mr Waters. Thank you for putting this together.”

So yeah. Well, thank you very much. And I’ve enjoyed it. And I think a lot of people will have enjoyed this. So John Waters. Thank you for appearing on Millenniyule!

John Waters: Real pleasure! Thank you very much. I look forward to next year, already. And I hope we don’t have to have the same conversation again. I hope that next year will be a celebratory conversation about how we won the war.

Woes: That [laughing] would be wonderful! Okay. I’ll be back soon with the next one. I’ll need a wee bit of our rest just to get something to eat. But I’ll be back soon, about 15 minutes. In the meantime, thank you John Waters. It’s been a real pleasure! And bye bye, for now.

John Waters: Merry Christmas everybody!

[102:14]

[102:15]

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[103:15]