Simon: Okay hello everyone and welcome to European Freedom livestream number 21! What is called now? It’s called “Keeping a Political Project on Point”! And this week we’ve got the fantastic Chris Dangerfield. So it’s really great to have him here and as but as usual before introducing him we’re gonna talk to my mate Horus. How’s it going Horus? Any new news on your latest video.

Horus: I still still editing it I keep on failing to get around other work but all right well I’ll be doing this over like an hour here an hour there and I was just got well I’ve got a rerecord a bit, or I’ll go record another section to it so. But I think I’ll get it on this week okay there now I just I had loads of work, you know, my job work last week. So I’m getting on sweat and then I’ve got loads more ideas after that as well but I’ve read two books in between, because it’s about the right gangs fing and a read Maggie Oliver’s book and Jane’s seniors book and that gave me new things to discuss so that’s the bits I’ve got the one add to it as well.

Simon: Good I’ve heard very good things about Maggie Senior particularly.

Horus: You’ve mixed the two together Maggie joins me yes yeah she’s the one she’s lady works in brother room and yeah she was a yeah real whistleblower and making olive as one was better than I expected as well, because it I’ve been led to believe that she was sort of like a self-promoter Sophie but actually in her book he’s really hot hitting I recommend back to them yeah and they’re quite easy reading who they well we’re in it off so I’ve got some stuff to take out in I’m putting more videos.

Simon: Okay well be looking forward to that and okay and finally onto the guest Chris it’s really great to finally speak to you after quite a long time really.

Chris: Mmm certainly I don’t usually like doing streams with people I’ll be honest with you but I like your stuff Simon. So I’m actually looking forward to this and nice to be not on camera I mean, there’s that ridiculous to have me there, but I am actually sort of reclining at the moment and it’s nice not to show my face.

Simon: Yeah it is a relief actually I always used to show my face I still often show my face but just the idea of be able to sit here and pick your nose if you liked this kind he’s kind of relief really it takes a lot of pressure off you and yeah I prefer working with avatars really.

Okay, so let’s get into the I-team I don’t know the best way to introduce you I suppose everybody knows Chris and just be doing a bit of research on you I’ve been watching some of your videos over the last few days and I don’t is it out of order to bring the one that you broadcast the other day about your when you appeared on Channel four TV

Chris: They’re all public so I mean, they’re all public feel free.

Simon: I mean, look what in many respects I mean, I think my background from pretty much stat well reasonably far left as a young man. But then standard left up my I suppose my strange story as I played in reggae bands and African bands for a long time. I was the White guy in a kind of very, very black community and now I’m an ethnos so is it kind of a bit bit odd really, but your background is even heavier going from kind of radical communist through drug addict to Nazi really! Yeah it’s kind of how did you get here?

Chris: You know what I went to I had a seven, or eight years in higher education. I just want it well originally I wanted to be I was a child of the eighties and graphic design was a big thing in the 80s and there’s loads of money in it and my dad was a bricklayer but he was always drawing he was done oil paintings that all wrapped round my mother’s house quite a weird bloke in many ways especially in that working-class community, you know, he stuck out as a bit of an eccentric. And so I was always drawing and he taught me to draw a young age and paint and so with the sort of it was a red Ferraris and funny sort of glasses in the eighties so I wanted to be a graphic designer.

So I went to art college to study that. But then as it’s quite typical with art schools I started taking a lot of drugs and LSD come along. And it affected me quite heavily and I soon sort of rejected earning money basically that’s the simple way of putting it I could dress it up as rejecting capitalism and [05:02] the exploitation and alienation of labor. But just the idea of earning money and working was sort of frowned upon in art schools and my work changed I wasn’t, you know, I my portfolio when I arrived there was lots of nice watercolors of the sort of things you’d expect on chocolate boxes and leaflets at the bank.

After about six months of LSD they would just a mess just throwing paint at the canvas and cutting it and, you know, usual kind of stuff. And so they said to me you’re not really an illustrator we think you should lead this course and gonna study fine art. So when I done that I ended up on a degree doing performance art which is, you know, that’s right out there this is contemporary performance art.

My final piece at that university sorry that art school was a piece named after the Foucault book discipline and punish. Where me and a friend were dressed up in sort body armor and ice hockey hats and gum shields and we had these wooden clubs and anyone who came in the room at to follow rules. And we had lawyers outside we had security guards and people had to sign contracts legal contracts not to involve the law, or the police layer. They probably weren’t binding but they may have been we did have real lawyers excuse me. And so anyone who entered that room and they ain’t had to enter one at a time and the rules were things like you had to pigeon step around the black line without deviating you had to leave the room with one mitt in one minute and not establish eye contact with anyone in the room and everyone did that was the first thing they do they walk in they survey the room and see they broke a rule we kick the shit out of them! And that was my final piece. So I got first for a violent piece of art.

But while I was as soon as I left studying graphic design and illustration I ended up in fine arts alongside that comes the politics and they were all Marxists! There was not a whiff of anything else! They are all hardcore Orthodox to the mainly sort of Rosa Luxemburg Marxists. And I was taught that and after that first degree I went on done a master’s degree in cultural studies. And this is about 94. And cultural studies for anyone who doesn’t know he’s kind of like the birthplace of social justice, you know, I will study in post-colonial theory. I was studied gay and gender theory it was studying feminism.

And we were it was a Marxist indoctrination camp. And as much as I thought I was making my own decisions I look back now and it’s horrifying really they’re sort of a young bright young, a young bright lad full of the joie de vivre, you know, a loved life my father had died when I was quite young. But I was still sort of coping and I was put through this horrible indoctrination process where I came out a Marxist.

And when you’re about it you can’t enjoy life! You’re not allowed to you, because anything anything you achieve, or do someone else is suffering that’s the kind of basics, or maths they work on. And without doubt it cost me the next 30 years of my life! Because that sort of ended up, you know, I became a heroin addict for the majority of my adult life.

Simon: Before we get onto that can we just talk about a bit about the kind of Marxism. I mean, because I really got into radical left politics just for a couple of years. But when you were reading it didn’t you think there was something wrong with it?

Because I kind of loved the term I’ve come to use is once I moved there were out of the far left I just became a default leftist, you know, I was nothing really, but I’ve had this imprinted on my mind. But yeah, I read quite a few I didn’t actually read and read much omit original work but I read synopses and essays and I had lots of mates who were the International Marxist group was based in Notting was founded in Natyam. And I knew lots of people in the IMG some of them were okay some of them were right our souls actually, but to a certain extent I think even in a couple of years I’ve kind of worked out for myself that there was something wrong with this.

And also being we kind of we all joined the Labour Party in the kind of entries in period and I it was very lucky, because I joined the Labour Party where my granddad who was a trade unionist had been a member. And some of his old mates took me under their wing they used to call me Young Harris. And I had to go and sit with them at its party meetings and I think what they were doing subtly they were telling me keep away from these wankers.

Effectively that’s what they did and, because they ‘d obviously been mates with my granddad and lots of mud known since I was a [10:01] little kid. I couldn’t really get out of it but I kind of woke myself up and my stupidness only lasted for what two, three years probably.

But then the unfortunate thing was the rest of my life I was just kind of left with this default leftism where I thought left that the lefties must be the good guys. And I never actually bothered looking at any other alternative theories sorry for going on about too much about myself. But I was just kind of interested to explore how you perceive some of this ideology.

Chris: Well it was a bit strange, because I was a little bit of an outlier anyway I think, because I was studying from an arts background my I was worried I was more into the sort of French scene Foucault Derrida Chris diver who it was all based in Marxism. So I sort of knew there was a, you know, they sort of doff their cap to Marxism and even among the Marxists that was seen as a little bit dodgy, you know, they were a bit more sort of straight-laced.

However, they did the thing that really attracted me to them at Leeds University when I was in my masters was there practical stuff. The Islamic fundamentalist group his Buddha here they got banned from Leeds University. And that was carried all over the country his butter here were not allowed to speak on University campuses, because they were homophobic and sexist and all this. And the Marxists of which I was one then and I was selling liberal Marxism, you know, Brendon O’Neill’s new magazine LM I think it was called by then it didn’t last long I think IT had sowed them out of existence in the end. But the Edition that we were selling was a free speech Edition and it was about free speech absolutism and we actually got the his butter here reinstated on universities we said this is crazy you can’t just silence people.

And that that appealed to me and no one else was doing it, you know, there was a lot of sort of the SWP were very prominent of every university I’ve been to and they didn’t strike me as anything. I wasn’t interested in anything and when they were shutting people up I was totally repelled by them. But the Marxists that was a good thing. Fired in for free speech on universities and doing speeches and do presentations organizing workshops where students would come along and they were talking about free speech absolutism. The next edition of the magazine believed in Marxism it’s funny actually thinking of it now I was like 23 with these magazines on my chests, or at university to celebrate such a cliche.

But and the next edition was what’s wrong with masculinity. And he had a picture of Tyson on the cover. And it was a pro-masculinity thing I mean, you got to put it in context going back to the early nineties the sort of the university left was a very different beast. So I was quite impressed with that kind of stuff.

My actual reading of Marx I thought if I felt this song wrong with it was quite boring. Especially when you’re used to Derrida, or on Foucault which is, you know, for lack of a better word it’s quite sexy theory really. And Das Kapital German ideology you just have to read it.

Simon: Yeah, it was pretty tiresome but it held me I on my own I suppose it was a combination of the people that were involved who I just didn’t like. And that kind of that kind of made, you know, I could smell something fishy, because and it’s interesting that like many, many years later when I finally started my more recent red pill journey it happened much more quickly, because I immediately as I was trying to waking up to what’s wrong with the world I first I went far left and explored the far left again.

And I was kind of reasonably involved with a far left party here in Catalonia. Just for two meetings actually, because we worked out very, very quickly that I thought they were wankers. And they thought I was a dangerous source, because I was asking too many sensible questions. But the fact that I’d gone that I knew already knew what lefties were like when I came back and found a few more of these radical people I realized I didn’t like them 35 years ago. I still don’t like them now.

What about you Horus? Your I don’t think you’ve been involved quite so radically have, you.

Horus: Know, the communism was the first idea that ever excited me though when I was about 15. And I sort of held on to at least remnants of that until early 20s. So yeah, I did have a sympathy for it. I wanted to ask something what’s the I am Ginny the crypt for the Hitchens prophets were.

Simon: No [15:00] it wasn’t it was it might have been not in Nottingham it was I think it was who was it? Was it Talia Callie? And then there was a there was a couple of not seen guys. I didn’t know the bigwigs. But the guy that ran the socialist society at University. I’m not going to name his name. But he was a member and he was a drinking mates. And I was in the social associate Society. So I kind of met these people and occasionally I found them rather obnoxious. But, you know, it’s what when I when you’re that age I was just LARPing as a radical. Mm-hmm, you know, it’s all revolution and, you know, donkey jackets and Doc Martin Lucy boots.

Horus: Did they write articles that cool things like drinking as a revolution reacts and things on that.

Simon: I mean, everything was revolutionary! And there is no.

Chris: And also usually the wrong way around. You’ve hit that now really Horus look then find way but behavior they were doing and then defend it as revolutionary. In they didn’t identify revolutionary act and then do it so if one of them was an alcoholic yeah his next paper would be drinking as a revolutionary act so sure.

Horus: And it wasn’t revolution as a drunken act.

Chris: Well Simon I was just saying about that LARPing thing. I’ve talked on my channel before. Without a doubt I was caught up in the Romance of the Marxist revolution. Which has a huge cultural kind of oath behind it. I can remember we went to seal and Ken Loach’s land and freedom which is incredibly good Marxist propaganda. In some ways is there’s some questionable politics during the movie.

But, you know, we went to lead picture house which sits about hundred people it’s got, it’s lit by little gas lights. And the RCP went along to watch land and freedom. And the there’s like 20 odd movies about Che Guevara and, you know, just the history of it the image is the stories. You don’t really get so much of that on the right. And as a lost kind of someone spiraling into addiction it was certainly something Romantic and kind of wholesome to get hold of but as I got older it became almost just an identity, you know, it become scientist, or single me out of parties, because I was going to talk about communism.

And but I never got the impression any of that lot that I met then any of those lot from the RCP at Leeds University I never actually believed this was gonna affect any change. Not once! And I only realized about six, seven months ago I’m involved in something now which feels like if things are actually happening. And I didn’t have that once in the RCP.

One of the boys it was right at the top of the tree. And again I won’t mention him. We went out one night and I gave him some speed. And it was one of those real mistakes go after about 10 minutes he looked like his head was gonna explode. And he turned to me and he grabbed me by the lapels of my sort of Rik Mayall student sort of cherry shops. He looked me in the eyes and he went he went you’ve got the means of production! You’ve got the means! And I really looked up to him, because man could he talk Marx! And I remember the engine singing are no he’s a bloody idiot!

Horus: But if he is so much so much like you can be wasted on it the dead end theory. But maybe it was just that he was like I mean, he might have been a very smart guy at, but lost in this maze of a sense of the idiocy way, because Marxism. But I don’t know if you guys would agree. But I think a wholly disagree with that statement that so many ordinary people have the it’s a nice idea. But it working in real world it’s. My artistic spirit is that it’s a terrible idea and I obviously won’t work in the real world as well.

But I mean, it does work it functions too great a castle of skulls and bones right. But it the problem is there’s a bad idea in the first place as well. It’s the idea is to destroy it, or private property which is a war against reality. And to destroy everything that can make one person have power over another. Which is everything about this. I mean, taller people are advantaged overfish, or ones where it’s oh except for airplanes.

Chris: Oh I think the thing about, you know, I obsolete Marxism as opposed to communism I understand you’re talking about communism as a sort of economic and social system. But what’s kind of appealing about Marxism to young men I think is there’s a lot more there, you know, there’s a the there is an analysis of capitalism. There is things that stand out that as a young man you almost can’t argue with really alienation from labor, you know, that I think that still goes on today.

Horus: I recognize that concept.

Chris: Yeah, of course, if girls gave them to talk the ears of [20:02] it and me they, but also things like the historical material principle analyzing history, you know, these things stand up. So it’s not just communism and, you know, Marxist of analysis of art and literature is there’s a huge body of work that comes under the umbrella of Marxism. And a huge body of work there’s that it’s influenced. I mentioned it for the likes of Foucault and Derrida that horse, or French thing. So, you know, to say that it’s a bad idea, you know, I understand that communism is a bad idea. But there’s so much more there. And I think it’s a bit more complicated than that.

Horus: And now what we encounter is more mark so Freudianism, or something like that I mean, Marxism that what people call cultural Marxism right it Marx combined with especially sake of psychology and other things like social anthropology as well. But I what, you know, it once it combined with so many other fields it became infinitely more influential. And also you mentioned the cultural studies before, right? If I’m not mistaken is that the field with Stuart Hall was one of the big yeah.

Chris: For sure Stuart Hall from Birmingham he was kinda like the brainchild behind it. Who wrote that ridiculous book Orientalism which is just Sayid sorry no. But yeah, you’re right Hall is behind that yes yes that’s true.

Horus: Hall is a major favorite of Ash Sarkar.

Chris: Yeah.

Horus: She absolutely loved him! But I see a straw I mean, I know this is perhaps of a point of principle the grander sweep of Marxism but why the fuck was that man and that’s who work in a British university? Like it says, you know, I don’t know why a single him at particular this is like a Jim might like Bob Baden, or something like he’s from the Caribbean he’s a Marxist he’s trying overthrow our society. And he’s employed in a British University and made famous, you know,

Chris: It’s full of them! It’s full of them Wars.

Horus: The ranks of them.

Chris: My master’s degree tutors three jews, three Marxists, three people who hate Western society! You’re sure for sure and they never taught me anything critical! They never they never encouraged me to critique Marx, or any others it’s no they paid me information.

Horus: Yeah it’s not what critical theory is its a critical theory is a weapon what was its a way of making people doubt their own society. Well making Western people doubt their own society.

Chris: But about however, you know, oh I also, you know, also the Frankfurt School, you know, they the Frankfurt School we talk about cultural Marxism for the Frankfurt School they looked at the failures of Marxism they tried to work out why. They realize that Marx a totally underestimated the growth of an explosion of pop culture and mass media. They also took on Freud like you said and so they created this, or new Marxism that took into account pop culture and mass media. And the divide itself of the sort 20th century.

However, much like when I talk about the body of work of Marx, some on the Frankfurt School stuff is still relevant and I think brilliant. I think Adorno and Horkheimer analysis of the culture industry which in inner as they called the culture industry is absolutely on point!

And I get in so much trouble for this like it’s so much backlash for daring to say that something the Frankfurt School said was relevant. And yet I study these texts regularly I pop out essays about them and I think to throw the baby out of the bath walk with some of this stuff is a really big mistake. I would encourage everyone to read the culture industry, if you want to get an understanding of how pop culture has got us in the mess. The pop culture’s role in the kind of demoralization and alienation and atomization of our people. I think it’s essential to look at that stuff.

Horus: Who does criticize you for reading and discussing those things?

Chris: Do any avatars in the chat I mean, I don’t get a sustained argument emailed to me. I just get people calling me all sorts of stupid names. But it rarely goes down well.

Horus: There’s no reason oh sorry I was cancer is loads of valuing in reading stuff from the Left is by no means the fact that there’s something wrong about roofing it’s what they’re trying to do is evil. What they’ve identified as the problem is they’ve got half the thing, or a few things right and I’m wrong, you know, by no means a waste of time to read this though.

Chris: But Horus do you think Marx and I asked you this as well Simon. Do you think marks set out to make a better world?

Simon: No I can’t go down a very conspiracy-theory path. I don’t really go down the conspiracy theory the fact that he was Rothschild cousin and he was in London at the same time as what I can’t remember which Rothschild it was [25:01] was MP for the city. I just think it’s yeah it when we talk about this particular tribe of people they crop up so frequently. This is very difficult not to go down the conspiracy theory route. And I don’t really want to get into it.

But yeah, I don’t know I think it’s cynical. I think one of the things about this tribe is they’re capable of producing very intelligent stuff, very intellectually stimulating stuff, for purely cynical reasons! And you spend your whole life doing something that’s gonna bring mmm bring evil to mankind. I think ultimately that’s what Marx does. No I don’t think he was to bring goodness to Manson mankind.

Chris: That conspiracy route you didn’t want to go down!

Horus: No I’ll tell you like a little more sophisticated most what hardly anyone on earth has purely good, or purely evil intentions but I’d say is more towards evil end. But like I do think Marx probably had a genuine belief in communism, because communism was is actually an old idea, right?

It goes back way before the 19th century. Like the story of the guys in Munster, you know, the Anabaptist take over in Munster offing is another example of the idea of communist suddenly making thing with you crazy things. And this thing’s way back in like biblical times as well. But I just think the libertarian theorist Murray rough, but also jewish Missy but a good cheer in my opinion. He put it well when he just said the key thing to understand about Marx is that Marx was a commie, which sounds like a joke and when he says this you’re on tape you can hear the audience laughing but he means it, right? What he said is Marx was a commie when he was like in his early 20s, then he became a theorist those theories were to justify the idea of communism.

So this whole analysis of capital has eventually taken over the world destroying aristocracy and then ultimately destroying itself and then communism what will be the necessary result, was all bullshit! I don’t believe it, right? It may become some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy maybe I mean, obviously capitalism does have its problems right. But I think that all that he wrote was to justify his pre-existing belief in communism. And so I don’t I do you think he probably thought that was socially just in a way. So I don’t Ralph is simply evil but no I do think communism is an evil idea so not going to credit in which one of your good evil.

Simon: But don’t you think to a certain extent it’s a lot of that early communism is the result of being a lapsed jew? Like this, you know, there’s some kind of ticking tikkun olam in it and yes it’s so tell Malik and it’s so hateful.

And I’ve been fiddling around with an idea I was wanting to that’s all I’ll publish it at some point. But I fiddle about with the Communist Manifesto over and over again and it’s full of bile! When you start to look at it I was thinking of just replacing I’ve been going through the text and replacing the word “bourgeois” with White, or some kind of version of “White“. And once I’ve done the text I want to kind of update it for the modern world and call it a “Globalist Manifesto“. I’m giving away an idea!

But a lot of it kind of stands up and it just when you suddenly apply it to yourself this could be me! It comes across is really nasty and it’s kind of yeah the boys were the bourgeoisie it is a reasonable synonym for what Whites have become today. And it seems that it seems to be full of racial hatred to me.

Horus: And like I don’t think anyone should write, because he was Chris marks was kind of raised Christian, right? Like his father was a convert to Christianity so he was thought nominally raised Christian by simon: His — of his grandfather’s were rabbis and his brother became a rabbi.

Horus: You then further back further up from his grandfather’s as well it’s quite a long line of rabbis I think. Plus there was that Moses Hess who was a big time in search of inspiration on him as well, who was very self-consciously a jewish think her, right? jewish.

Simon: He’s the founder of Georgia nation political zionism what I can do I can’t man what it’s exactly cool but is that a precursor to zionism.

Chris: There’s a fair amount of anti-semitism in Marx. I’m struggling to know.

Horus: That’s true that’s true like he’s not I don’t think Marx was trying to serve jewish ethnic interests [30:00]. It’s not that he’s of another kind. These are the kind of like that you see in my Trotsky and Barris people like it’s only cliff like yo your Gluckstein. Another other jew that legit then they don’t see themselves as working for, you know, jewish interests.

But they are of another strain of the way that jews are kind of corrode, or undermine Western societies like. But they yeah they having the mind I think the genuine idea, they’re pursuing some kind of social justice. But also of a devilish edge to it! Restrained but destruction matters, you know,

Chris: A devilish edge!

Horus: I think so I think so I might be wrong I might be wrong, but that’s how it seems to me.

Simon: There’s an interesting member who by but it is a book called Marx and Satan which is a well worth a read? Okay, so we can eat we kind of got on to the post-modernism and that the whole promotion of degeneracy through culture. Which is kind of a story of your life isn’t it Chris?

Chris: Yeah, for sure.

Simon: There’s your is that is it through the politics was it the politics that got you into the degeneracy really.

Chris: I think, you know, I won’t blame I’m not gonna blame anything on its own. I did make decisions as well and other people went through what I went through and didn’t end up like me. So I was also I have to take some responsibility, of course. But I’m just come at the end of finishing a novel which is its an autobiographical novel. And having now written nearly 200,000 words, when I step back from it and try and work out what it’s about.

The sort of major theme is what happens to people who were wrenched from responsibilities, were encouraged to pursue pleasure, we’re told marriage is a bad idea, we’re told families are a bad idea, we’re told to just get out there and have pleasure and accumulate wealth. That’s the story of my life, the failures of that. Without responsibility you have no meaning and my life has been cursed with barbaric meaninglessness!

And that I think that will take people to things like drugs, or certainly to things like addiction, whether that’s drugs, or is manifest in whatever way. And I think it’s one of the real failures of the White culture of the last twenty, thirty years. I think the eighties and nineties really screwed a generation, or two, with that kind of emphasis. Emphasis yeah!

Simon: I also kind of noticed but in the in that clip that you played is going to some parts of that clip but you were it in who was it Rupert Everett’s who you have an interview with? Um but he introduced use of having, or you say yourself that you’d made him you are a businessman who’d made a million in, …

How on earth given given that you’re a commie, a commie drug addict, how does a commie drug this was my question if how does it commie drug-addict become a businessman who makes a million?

Chris: It was weird actually obviously, you know, actually it was weird obviously, but I sold drugs for most of my life, because you justify it, because you’re a communist. And this is all black market. And I don’t I’m dealing in a different market place where everyone’s cool and revolutionary. I’d say I’ve told this story a few times. I used to live in a flat above this Irish man. And in my window I had the communist flag from Vietnam. And an Irish paramilitary flag with the bloke with the AK 47 in the balaclava. And I come out one morning and he went to me — I can’t do the accent — he said:

“Why did you have those flags in your window?”

And in all seriousness I’m so deluded I said to him:

“I’m a revolutionary!”

And he went:

“No, you’re a junkie!”

It’s just like, yeah!

But I got I so I was selling drugs to pay for my own habits and just to add some money obviously. And then I washed up back at my mother’s house when I was about thirty 31 I think maybe. And, you know, every few years I’d end up back at my mother’s house with, you know, no pot to piss in and nothing going on.

And a friend come around my house who I’d known since we were kids. And he just said to me look at this day if you said your yellow you glow in the dark you’re a bright bloke and you’re doing nothing. And he gave me a computer. And I went on and he got me online.

And this was dial-up it was really early days no one it was in the industry so I was quite sort of privy to I didn’t have that sort of technological block to get online. And so I got online and started messing around and found a forum and the idea have been out of talk to people all around the world online was just incredible!

I never forget the first [35:00] bloke I spoke to who was a steelworker in Illinois and it got me I was crying, because I’d spent the weekend on ecstasy and I was all vulnerable and delicate and he sort of drove a truck to this steel mill and made metal, or something, and yeah this will wholesome life. His childhood sweetheart was pregnant.

And I was just sort of disappearing like nine stone Mayor Marva zoth. I found so that forum really struck me. And then may come around the next day and he said what you’ve been doing on the internet. I said well I found a forum and he said well you can have your own forum and I was like alright then let’s do it. And he said what do you want the forum to be about? And I’ve been messing around with a very old lock-picking tool called a bump key. And I said well let’s call it UK Bump Keys. And he said all right and so he’s certainly silly for him up and I put up a few posts about the bump keys I put a few photos of him up. And the next morning I had about 500 members and half of them wanted to buy a bump key off me. And so I was like yeah send a tenner to my mum’s and I’ll send you one.

Simon: Wow!

Chris: And about six months later I had an online business it was turning over between three and five grand a day!

Horus: We can we do another stream where we where we run through the details of that?

Chris: I missed a big chunk out there didn’t know my secrets of online entrepreneurship Noble that book that I released soon.

Horus: I mean, what the fuck is a bump key? But they will go from there.

Chris: Well a bump keys all right. So there’s let’s assume there’s 20 plus 20 brand I’ve always been into lock picking so that’s kind of been in the background all my life. We do helpful for chemists if when the chemist is close you need to help yourself.

Horus: Oh I see right,

Chris: Let’s assume there’s 20 brands of locks in England yeah always the one most people know. But there’s GG there’s ledge there’s vir oh there’s Chavo. I could give you 20 off the top me it. But let’s us use 20. They all have a blank key that will fit most of the ones in that brand, unless lights, or variations so a 1A Yale key is gonna fit probably about a million 1A Yale locks yeah. The blank key will go in it won’t open it but it will go in it, because it’s the same profile that’s a Yale 1A.

Now there’s a pattern called a bump pattern that you can cut onto that key and then, if you put that into any of those million Yale locks, space it correctly, get the right spacing, give it a little tap on the back with — originally it used to be a top in the handle of a screwdriver, but now you can get bump hammers. Give it a little tap it’s gonna open that lock. So one bump key will now open 500,000 locks. So for locksmiths this is a an absolute boon!

Horus: Right.

Simon: No I got it cheap at ten pounds oh so, you know, oh yeah I can see the potential in purchasing that,

Chris: Yeah, I mean, the thing is, I mean, the business is now nearly twenty years old and now there’s loads of stuff. I still work there. I’m not the sole owner anymore, because my head dick jinkin can come back and screw everything up from time to time. But, you know, there’s we have a good relationship with the police and the police I don’t have an issue with lock-picking tools, because they kind of the wrong the wrong tools for the job.

If you’re gonna rob a property you’re not worried about non-destructive entry, which is what lock-picking provides. But there’s a payoff, you know, a set of lock picks you might be down in front of that door for a for now, or trying to individually pick those pins even with a bump key you’ve got to know the lock, you’ve got to know what variation it is. And you if you’re not prepared that you could be hittin that key for 30-40 minutes.

Whereas if you’re a thief a brick through the windows, or foot through the doors far far, you know, you don’t, you know, you’re not looking to not destroy the lock. You’re not looking for non-destructive entry. And you don’t wanna sacrifice time. So they’re not the police we have a good relationship with the police. But we also sell to the police, we sell to fire stations, we sell the Ministry of Defense, we sell to private investigators, and all sorts.

Simon: So okay I’m Nick this is getting really interesting. I was going to talk about politics thing, but this is momentum. So you did all this and then you got into I mean, one of the things that impresses me about your stream is, I mean, I need to prepare my stuff I. You just sit there and talk confidently about any old thing is its amazing.

Chris: So I meant that the trick is not to prepare anything! That’s the I never prepare anything! I might occasionally get a little video if someone sends me something interesting throughout the day. But I’ve met but I [40:00] used to do stand-up I was a stand-up comment for 10 years. I never prepared anything for that either well this is.

Simon: How do you get into stand-up? You it’s communism drugs, a lock picking business, and stand-up! It seems an odd collection of, …

Chris: Well I’ve got to say the lock-picking business did not stay at that, sort of money, because what happen was it was very early days of the internet. So there was a lot of things working for me no one else was really online. And I mean, that mimei and me I knew no one else who was online. Not even libraries were online this is our fireback ongoing so I was in a very I mean, there were people online. But it wasn’t like yesterday and so I was in a very lucky position where you could capitalize on things no one else had. But then you suddenly five years later everyone’s online there’s another 20 lock-picking shop so I didn’t have to deal with when I started. Then ebay. Then Amazon

And so, you know, and then, of course, in those early days it was just me now there’s like I say I don’t own the company outright anymore there’s half a dozen full-time staff half a dozen part-time staff consultants marking consultants SEO agents bookkeepers account and it goes on. So the glory days didn’t last for long but, you know, it’s still a healthy business it employs a lot of people and that’s their jobs.

But what happened was, because of that business I mean, I’ve been to about ten rehab centers before that business and none of them weren’t even touch the size of that. I don’t think I was ready to stop to be honest with you I had nothing going on in my life. I was living over mums. For someone with two degrees to never have worked and to be just doing nothing was quite sad. And so when I turned up at a rehab center I am answering your question, by the way, it’s just a bit of a weird way again. So turn up a rehab center and then say to you right we’re gonna get you clean and then when you leave here you’re gonna be living at your mum’s signing on to the dole. It’s not that appealing. If you think well hang on it sounds to me the only thing I’m doing is taking the something out of my life that gives me any pleasure.

So when I set the business up and the business started doing well, I started, you know, my bank account was going ridiculous and throughout my using in my 20s I always said as most junkies do if only I had access to the drugs I need I could just get on with my life it’s all this running around the Estates all the police hassle that’s what that’s what’s ruining my life! Never the drugs! Is never the drugs! When you’re an addict it’s always outside forces that’s how you recognize it. So suddenly I add like half a kilo of heroin I can remember I used to hold the door open with it. I add about a kilo of skunks in there. I have 50,000 valium that we were bringing in from Thailand so I had all the drugs I could want! Literally all the drugs like one.

And, of course, my life went down hill, or I’d wake up in the chair I fell asleep in there was about two litre bottles of urine surrounding the chair. I just didn’t do anything. I just sat there. I only ate if someone brought me something. I was just disappearing.

And the girlfriend at the time said look you’ve got money now you don’t have to go to one of these shocking NHS detox facilities why don’t you spend a bit of money and go somewhere off this and then come out and you’ve got a job! You’ve got a business you could go on holiday you could live your life. And for the first time in sort of 15 years using I thought well hang on she’s got a very good point there.

So I went to rehab. I thought I really fall and really fall I sort of I don’t do well being told what to do. But at some point during that rehab center. I just put me hands up when all right go on I’m gonna do whatever you say. And I got clean! I got clean for the first time ever! And they told me to hang around for about another six weeks, because they don’t, you know, it’s not a good idea to be turfed out on the street as soon as you’re clean. So I was desperate to leave. I hated the place I hate institutions.

But, you know, like I said I’d put me hands up and said I’ll do I’m told. And during that six weeks a they put me through a lot of therapy group therapy about what you’re gonna do when you get out. Because when you’ve been out you’re nut twenty-four seven, suddenly 24 hours a day is a lot of time! And when you’ve spent your time out of your mind you’re not gonna be sleeping properly for about another year, you know, you’re gonna be getting about two, or three hours a night.

And so you’ll be waking up before the sun comes up, just sitting there going out of you’re nut with boredom and frustration. So they do a lot of work on you about how you’re gonna feel your day. And one of the things they talked about was what sort of skills you’ve got and how you might be able to use those to fill up some of your time.

And so they get you in a group and they ask the group they go around the groups and walk what’s Chris good at? Was what’s Chrissy strongpoints? And everyone was saying telling jokes. Telling stories. Public speaking, all that sort of stuff. And so when they come back to me I said [45:00] well I’ve always quite fancied being a comedian. And they all just went that this is it this is the one obviously! This is perfect for you!

And then it was quite funny actually one of the therapists if all alright let’s assume we get you a gig next week. Wash your washer first joke? And I said to him, I said well it’s not really jokes my stuff, it’s stories. But I did once have sex with a disabled girl on acid, and I think there’s a few laughs there! And, of course, they all laughed, for the wrong reasons!

But weirdly enough that was the first story I told as a stand-up comic, and it was the last story I told as a stand-up comic! So it was actually a good story, but that’s how I got into stand-up it was a question of getting clean and needed to fill time.

Horus: It was the first and last story told by pure coincidence?

Chris: Yeah well obviously I didn’t start on think I know ten years later. Sorry but I made yeah. Just by coming to this and I only realised myself a couple of months after I finished.

Horus: Beautifully executed plan up movie!

Chris: Palin joint career.

Simon: Okay, so from there how did you get to nationalism, because Paul Rimmer’s in the chat oh I need to email Paul probably. Rimmel is saying um nationalism is getting very avant-garde today, which I suppose it is. So oK you’ve got all this background, so how did you get it you’re one of us now.

Chris: Well I think historically most radically political movements require weirdos, outliers, and freaks to form. I mean, it’s I think I’m kind of perhaps clear more clearly a weirdo in a freak but, you know, even Mark [Collett] even yourselves, even Laura [Towler], On the Offensive, Dan, you know, we’re almost the people that haven’t fitted in other groups, or got turfed out of other groups. I think political movements do they, I think the core of a political movement is comprised of outliers, and people who aren’t satisfied with what’s previously been on offer.

But to answer your question, because that’s a slightly different point. To answer your question so I the communism was just like an identity thing after that I had the flags Ram of Rome. I’d the little Soviet submarine on the lapel. But I wasn’t in any way politically active! And of course, at this point, now I’m running an online business. I’m studying online marketing, because I want to do a bit more of that in the business. So I’m not a communist! I’ve not anywhere near a communist! I am out-and-out capitalist! And then so it wasn’t I still said I was a good way getting a bit of attention occasionally the girls like it, you know, they think it’s Romantic and it’s sexy. And that I can I prove that many times!

But um a friend come so I wasn’t really politically active at all. But I was finding a lot of my previous ideas to do the French thinkers wasn’t really holding up it started feeling a little bit sort of airy-fairy. Sort poetic and not really anything to do the real world. And there was a kind of catastrophe going on there with me, because look what is this stuff for? Is this just for sitting around going oh you’re right language is terribly contradictory Tarquin! But not actually doing anything with it.

And then a friend turned up very good friend of comedian Trevor Locke. And he said to me one day when do you know what an Social Justice Warrior is? And this was about 2015. And I was like no I don’t. And he said I’ll send you some links. And so he sent me some links usual suspects, Gamergate kind of stuff that what was that what did they call them at the time? They’re the cynic what was it called gripstic. Yeah we talked about this the other men armored skeptics chew on it, or listen to these people they’re out there but, you know, yes but an entry point of Sargon obviously. Which I think has been an entry point for plenty of people.

Got into that and it was lovely, because I had feminism rammed down my throat! And I went I walked round one of my art colleges with potential rapists written on my forehead on the back of being talked old about. I mean, no big deal but I was only 22 it seemed quite cool at the time.

But to actually hear other people having massive problems of feminism, then multiculturalism, then diversity, inclusion. So I just followed that followed that followed that and, you know, five years later Here I am! In a pursuit for truth as well! I didn’t see coming on the horizon for how do I get there I just followed followed the honestly.

Horus: And I know Simon I know we’re coming towards, or the trial point of a thing, but I just wanted to [50:00] ask briefly danger killed what how company on pen is that was that an accident, or is that you particularly like on pen?

Chris: I was living in Soho. I was paying a fortune for rent for a tiny little place. I realized I have got no family and no children. It was quite weird actually it was one Christmas I remember looking around my bed sit and thinking he you’re 44 where’s where’s your family? What is this Christmas? What you hear on YouTube again?

And I just saw I need to make some changes I’ve got to get out I’ve got to get out Soho. I didn’t want to live somewhere in England that wasn’t going to keep me interested, because if I’m not if I haven’t got things to engage me I know what happens to me. And it’s not good. And so really I mean, it was financial mainly, because my money were four times as much out here, but I’m also old, you know, I’m also I’m also nearly 50. And I just thought I can’t be doing with these winters. I’m gonna go I’m gonna move out to Asia.

Horus: I got arthritis in my foot and I’ve spent a bit of time in Southeast Asia and my arthritis doesn’t bother me.

Chris: Out there no I am completely a different person physically it’s this is just a fact isn’t it.

Horus: Oh just got crimes one more question as well Simon just.

Simon: Okay go on then.

Horus: We mentioned living Marxism earlier and obviously that was a product of what grew out of the RCP?

Chris: Yeah.

Horus: And which was Brendan O’Neal’s group Frank Brady Claire Fox another is right. Just about them, you know, because they hated bother though I think I was left is from they are hated by the left, because they’re like super contrary leftists.

Do you think that the point in doing that is that they believe that the rest of the radical left has forgotten about the importance of class war, or neglected class? And they were actually trying to get everyone to stop focusing on gender, and all these other things that they see as distractions and just refocus on being a class movement? Or do you think that spiders are actually not leftists anymore?

Chris: I don’t think they left us anymore.

Horus: What do you feel they are?

Chris: I think that they still have a lot of time for a lot of the stuff they used to read. Something strange is what you do fed me that and I’m gonna throw it back to you sewing strange. But I don’t think I don’t they’re certainly not Marxist Leninist which they somewhere once. I don’t know I read I know a lot of people don’t like Brendan O’Neill but he’s kind of it kind of gets accepted into the media and he called does call some problems there,

Horus: But he’s right.

Chris: And he must know he must know that he’s keeping his mouth shut he must, or is that just a delusion of what you think is that just what you think, because when you think something.

Horus: I don’t know all right maybe we can’t answer that.

Simon: You see I suspect that he’s a bad actor, you know, I don’t.

Horus: They take money from the Koch brothers.

Simon: Yeah the name spiked, what happens what happens when you spike a drink.

Chris: You’re so suspicious!

Simon: I mean, I published books on the conspiracy theory.

Chris: There you go, there you go!

Simon: So I try I try not to go too far down! I try to maintain some kind of sensibleness. But yeah, um I’m cases of them as well. Yeah I’m very, very, very suspicious.

Chris: I think the likes of Brandon O’Neil would struggle where he took money from I’ll just tell you that mark the Soviet Revolution was funded by JP Morgan, or something. And this is standard service for him. Yeah.

Simon: Okay well this has been a kind of longer introduction to work kind of where I wanted to get to really. Which was we’re talking about what was the title again I can’t remember yeah keeping them keeping your political projects on point with Dangerfield! Keep keeping a keeping a livestream on point with age if they do you feel should be the title really.

But the other day, or we’ve been recently talking about things like optics. It’s kind of very interesting that somebody with your past would have problems with optics. And I suppose that Horus can lay out his position. And this is you’ve I’ve hinted at my slyly suspicious conspiratorial views of not really trusting anybody. But I think that I think there are bad actors moving society and they’ve got to be rooted out. I think we’ve got a false version of a great deal of the history [55:01] which provides which unless we speak about it honestly is always going to be a handicap to people realizing who they are.

I don’t really think the Germans are the enemy. We’ll get onto that later and the picture that I put up on the street is the screen now the picture up on the screen of this bulldog spitfire nationalism with our patriotism and nationalism is trapped in something that’s taking us nowhere. And is built on a lie. I don’t know if you’ve got anything else to add to that Horus?

Horus: Well I think that’s true. Although I think we and other forces are diminishing that facts. Like I mean, bulldog patriotism is not what it was 20, or 30 years ago. I think most people even on the right would have a bit of a smirk if they speak about it, you know. So I think and like ya thought in my I’m over the last since that summer has been to were to try and a sort of tunnel under it or, you know, put a bomb in the middle of it.

Because I think it’s in the way, and it’s a problem. But yeah, I mean, it does it well the idea of the war anyway. And the idea of church it was the greatest Britain ever on that still has quite a significant hold on people.

And as I pointed out to someone else the other day, or was even this show last week, that the person who, you know, the BBC poll with where Churchill was voted Great Britain ever. That was argue for his advocate was my moment who was obviously part of Blair’s government. So it has a hold on the center and center-left as well. And it works for them, it doesn’t work for us.

Simon: Yeah and okay Dangerfield this involves people like Horus and I sometimes appearing to speak favorably of a certain Austrian painter. And I think in many respects this was the point where you were upset about this for a moment and came back. I don’t know. This is not a coherent question.

But can I have your thoughts on why that happened? What do you think about Horrors at horses in my position? And where this might fit into PA and the optics that we’re trying to get together?

Chris: Okay!

Simon: I was gonna get to this.

Chris: Talking about being suspicious. When you mention bad actors who need weeding out. I thought to expose me! This is sure this is gonna be my downfall! What a Monday night! Well.

Horus: I’ll just say one thing that thanks for I would have been dismayed if we lost you that would have been terrible I think you’re yeah I mean,

Simon: We were quite surprised strongly in favor and what one of the reasons why Horus and I said immediately let’s invite him on as soon as possible. That would this was our solution.

Chris: So that’s very kind! The honest with you I was shocked about how many people gave a shit and the depth of their shit giving! I really was I didn’t, you know, I know that a lot of people don’t like me anywhere near this movement.

When Morgoth called me out on his stream I was inundated with abuse from nationalists, telling me that lot of things saying things like don’t know how you ended up in our circles anyway you bleep bleep bleep, you know, wave upon wave of abuse.

So it did it I was good, you know, it was a nice surprise actually for people to consider me relevant. But so there’s two questions that you kind of put two questions to me. The first one is how I if I forgot you right how would someone with my past be able to question optics in such a movement? But I actually think that my past is one of the strengths of my channel.

Because when I are, you know, I grew up in a working-class town and everyone took drugs from about age fourteen! Everyone just took drugs! I’ve lost so many friends to drugs! And it that includes alcohol. Most to alcohol. The ones I haven’t lost to alcohol by dying you in prison for domestic violence, car crashes, whatever, you know, the sort of 30, or 40 people I could probably think of the top my head. And, you know, that the last 30 years in the UK working-class people have been promoted to take drugs! It’s part of the youth culture, probably like never before. I certainly think more than the 60s.

My mom says my mom’s got like a Baudrillard comment about the 60 she says it never happened, you know, she said there’s probably about 20 hippies somewhere that happened to turn up where the film crews were but no one else knew them. But my experience of growing up in working-class communities and what I’ve heard from and seen of them as I’ve got older is this carries on. So many [60:02] people on my channel we email me I’m currently getting about 30 a day. Every stream I sail so if you’re gonna email me keep it short. I just been it. But I’d say I get about five a day at the moment from people saying I’m so glad you talked about drugs. I’m so glad that you haven’t hidden this, because I feel that I can’t be a nationalist, because I smoke weed, or I can’t be in nationalist, because occasionally I do got appeals with the missus.

And all this sort of thing and I think so many people have put off by I think the phrase is “purity spiralling” before I forgot the meaning of that right. That you can’t have done anything ever in your life you kind of made any mistakes. And if you go near an eighth of skunk you’re not allowed in this club. And I think lots of people find it quite refreshing that actually this person is humor and he’s made mistakes he’s got a past. But he still can look at collectivizing and red pill in White working-class communities.

Which is how where I see my role in this. Motivating the collective eyes and the people I’ve been talking about neighborhood watch teams. I’ve been talking about having local barbecues, using scare halls, you know, very basic quite boring on the ground level stuff. So that’s the easy part of the question is the answer.

The Austrian painter business. This is Furcal Ave this isn’t just me, you know,

Simon: I know we know this is kind of widespread.

Chris: Well it’s a probably nearly nearly five hundred, six hundred thousand subscribers worth of YouTube content creators. Big ones that you all know who don’t want to put their head above the parapet, because you get swooped down on like I did. It was like leaving Scientology. But they don’t want to mention it.

But you all know them. Most of you probably watch these people. They don’t know how to approach it. They don’t know how to talk about it. But the main point is very little is gained by these things! Very little is gained by Mark [Collett] saying his favorite three books. Very little is gained from any of this stuff. But we sacrifice a hell of a lot.

Again going back to the emails. I know it’s kind of anecdotal but it’s daily. Every day a handful of emails I’m desperate to get on board I’m disgusted what’s happening in our country, but I cannot sign up to Nazism. I cannot sign up so the Austrian painter! I don’t want anything to do with it!

The British his video the other day. Absolute nonsense! Madness from start to finish. But there was a 10-second bit where I couldn’t argue with him. And it was that stuff. So I my bottom line is I don’t think anything is gained from it, and I think loads is sacrificed. And once this movement becomes big enough to start engaging the media, that is gonna drag us down, and potentially cause the movement to fail.

Simon: I think both Horus and I take your points completely onboard. I think that the I think what is to be gained about my tell you my view is if I couldn’t study research what I research, I’m not a Nazi, I don’t think I don’t think it’s I don’t think it’s feasible in 2020, to relive the politics of the 1930s. I think they’re very time specific but trying to break down the web of lies that have been built around you okay let’s I mean, if the channel gets into trouble for saying hitless then so be it.

But there’s a whole whole web of lies about the causes of the Second World War. Churchill is our greatest hero. Hitler is the most evil man in history. And then a particular event that took place in prison camps in concentration camps is the thing that White people have to be guilty of for the rest of the rest of history! Somehow picking away at that myth, at parts of that myth I think is incredibly important.

Because as long as it remains, we will never be able to be free, because Churchill will be rammed in our faces! And the historical event will be rammed in our faces! And will be forced to be guilty again and we won’t be allowed to collectivize. And that will be the reason behind it.

Chris: Well I it’s reassuring to see a hell of a hell of a lot of your chat agree with me. See it as they’re probably your viewers. I don’t recognize those names. But I agree with what you just said. I’m aware of what happened down in those times mainly from what I’ve learned from Horus, and gone off and looked into afterwards.

But that [65:01] trying to try to involve that retelling of that story at the moment, I just think is crazy! That that can come a long way down the line. At the moment it’s I just think it makes us vulnerable. I just I to try and make that part of the same project of collectivizing, I think his is a terrible strategy! I just think it’s we can do this once you’ve got people collectivizing, once we become powerful, once we’ve got people going to regular meetings, this stuff can be aired, this stuff can be discussed! This stuff can be debated, no problem!

But it doesn’t it pretty much defines us at the moment. When anyone outside of this movement refers to Patriotic Alternative, the next word is Nazis! And we didn’t need to do that. It isn’t helping us and we did not need to do that!

Simon: Horus?

Horus: Yeah, I think so too. It can only make things more difficult. What it’s a way of tried to sort of I don’t know about connects all things up in my mind it’s just that what see a lot of people who are on the more fascist end they’re likely in their own beliefs are saying we’re going to be called Nazis wherever we do. That is absolutely true. On the other end I’m not sure that those people are accounting for the many of us who just aren’t fascists. Like we just we know there’s not the system which want to create. And also black we’re not I mean, a lot of us I mean, in my case. I’ve made this series of revisionist videos.

My aim is to what there’s several things coming once when my aim said the war was a disaster for Britain, you know, for Europe in general. For the West. It’s not to say in my case the Hitler did nothing wrong, because that, because I don’t believe that. And I don’t believe and mine is not to make people believe that and to convince people that actually we should’ve I don’t know exactly what people on the Nazi sort of fascist tender saying are they actually say that we should have National Socialism in Britain? I don’t think we should have anything from the 30s, because that’s the past, right? What we should have is a system that broadly in my opinion that broadly continued our way of life, other than what the traitors and Marxists and leftists have done to us.

Well I like Britain fundamentally. I just think it’s been taken over by awful people. So I don’t have any sort of particularly admiring ideas about the NSDAP, or anything like that. They were sort of just what came in Germany. They said they would saw, you know, cometh the hour cometh the man in Germany and that time. It’s not really that relevant. What I do like the swastika! I will always say that! [chuckling] both what I think we’ve got to sort of address.

I don’t really have the answers this week, or address why well I guess this is a question for people like the fascist end of a movement why are you so admiring of it? But maybe this will begin to help the rest of us deal with it, you know? What I will say though is to those on the outside who and not nationalists that’s all and who come at us with the Nazi angle. I would just say some look right. I said this last week when Dan was on. What I don’t want and I’m not looking to create a National Socialist system. I don’t know whether Mark is, right?

I haven’t at least poked him that, but mark is right on the question that matters most. Should our people be destroyed? Should we become subjugated by foreigners in our land? And he’s, in fact, correct on that! And that’s why I share with him. And that’s why I’m in the same movement as him! And I guess this might sound a bit traitorous to say, but a lot if there was an if 50% of the country was already nationalists, as who may implicitly be, but obviously not overtly. Maybe I wouldn’t be in the same way but. Maybe I’ll be in the same movement as people we were just nationalists but more liberal, or more traditionally British, you know, I don’t know!

But as it stands right we’re fighting to get people to care about the existence of the nation. And I’m very happy to be on the same side as the fascists, and the Nazis, in that sense, right? Because what, because this is the question of this is the number one pressing question.

I’m sorry I’m not really saying if you’re very clear. It’s such a complicated thing to try and deal with. But I just think as it stands I’m absolutely on the same side as Mark, because, you know, and all the people we were sort of admirers of Hitler, and so on, because our very existence is the pressing question!

Simon: My position is slightly different from Horus’s I think. Horus looks at the historical events. What I do is I kind of read what the thinkers of the various I [70:02] call them various kinds of nationalism. And okay let’s have the obligatory mention of Jose Antonio primo de Rivera, for this stream! Chris, in case you don’t know this, this is something we do every week!

Chris: I know!

Simon: Yeah okay you do know. Okay he’s been mentioned now. But like I’ve read reason about a moseley now a reason about of Jose Antonio. I mentioned yesterday in a video made I made that I tweeted outs the NSDAP. 25 points.

Well if you look at all these nationalisms you find how milquetoast and how relatively moderate a lot of the proposals are. And the reason why I think they’re useful to read and obviously not for everyone. Not everybody is like me. But the fact that I’m interested in reading these texts is very much like the Left. The Left can quote marks can quote Trotsky can quote Lenin despite the terrible things they’ve done. And although the modern left bears very little relation to the people that wrote those formative texts. The last example of nationalisms really is 1920s, and 1930s.

And reading them and understanding what people say said at the time and realizing that there were various, very similar, but quite different movements in lots of different countries I’ve actually not got round to look looking at Hitler yet. But it’s all along a similar lines along similar lines. In order to understand the world we’re living in now and formulate a modern a modern point of view, because obviously since 1945 the world has changed a great deal we’ve got immigration to face with now the whole sexual revolution women’s liberation. There’s lots and lots of things that make it completely different.

But a lot of those ticks are relevant. They help youth, or certainly help me focus on the points at hand. And look at the look at the modern situation in a new light. I think that’s what they’re for they’re obviously not for the whole public. I don’t know.

Chris: Well look the thing is I agree with you! Look how could I weave all my railing against the mainstream media, say don’t read those books, because the mainstream media said they’re evil! What why would I suddenly trust them now?

Of course, give those books who read mine can’t give it a read! David Dukes biography give it read! It, of course, I get that! However, this isn’t just about truth. This is has to involve marketing. And we have to play by their rules. And if I was marketing a movement like PA and I was sending out an email 100,000 people, front and foremost, wouldn’t be the interest in Nazism! Because it does it’s terrible! It doesn’t look good!

Those debates that that interest that nolley can come later. It puts people off and when you talk about the Left and they can where they’re Che Guevara T-shirt some wave their hammer and sickles I think luckily that turns a majority of people off them too. They look at them and think I don’t anything to do all that comment nonsense. In much the same way as it does us.

And I’ll tell you now if a movement formed tomorrow that was identical to PA in terms of policy in terms of wishes and requirements but didn’t have any of that stuff. I reckon three-quarters if not more people would migrate over that day.

Horus: Yeah it does seem to go against marketing sense to show admiration for the NSDAP, and so on, right? And yeah it doesn’t really gain us anything. I mean, it shows fidelity among a small section of the movement for their own ideas.

Chris: And those people they’re not going to come to us sorry to interrupt you but they’re not going to come to us and say well I like everything you say, but I’m a bit dubious about this. Can we sit down for two hours and you can explain it all to me? They’re not going to give you that chance. They just in think all fuck that I’ve got a job and I’ve got a family if this gets out that I’m fraternizing with these I’m in big trouble!

You know, when I spoke to Mark. When I sort of rather flippantly said I’ll be separating my tenuous link. I didn’t think I was that significant. I wasn’t trying to be blase. But I honestly didn’t. But he explained it to him it took about 80, 90 minutes. And this is someone talking to someone like me who’s very open, who doesn’t trust the media, who’s very up for understanding. And we haven’t got the luxury of that 90 minute talk with everyone we’re trying to recruit recruit.

If the media wanted to put a five-minute montage together to crush us, they could [75:02] probably put five minutes of pro narts ISM just from start to finish, and it would look awful. Whereas if you took all that stuff out they couldn’t. It would be people saying things about loving their people respecting nations the world over one in one in National Agency for All Nations they’d struggled to find negativity. But at the moment that there they’ll have to chop 90 minutes down to five.

Horus: Well old ass didn’t know you’d like that well that makes me think of his then say right how do how do you take PA forward, because what’s I mean, Mark is the leader right. Say the king this sounds horrible but like say if you carry on and at some point Mark ceases to be the leader, you know, for the sake of some sort of what marketing successful electoral success right. But you’re not going to expel him from the movement, right?

And so they’re just gonna say prominent PA member, or prominent PA activist, Mark Collett, or other people. They’re going to be able to name them. So I mean, and we’re not gonna do that we’re not going to exclude all the people who are sympathetic to fascism from the movement. So how’d it so well so we have to go forward in a quite a combative way anyway as far as I can see.

Chris: I think political movements. I think PA is very, very early days, you know, it said what’s who two conferences. It’s barely germinated from the seed. It might just be the seed even. Not even a plant yet let alone a tree. So it’s very early days. And I think movements move forward, dialectically I think the debates are ongoing their continual and as they get resolved so the movement moves forward.

And I think look as I said, at the beginning this the amount of people and prominent people we’ve got major issues with this stuff, who are starting to say, you know, I’m thinking of pulling back, or I’m gonna say something, or this, or whatever. I think this is important. I think that everyone involved should be humble enough to take it on and put the movement first. And I think it’s actually through that natural kind of dialectic movement it will get sorted out.

Simon: Well I mean, this is it really about this I’m very much welcomed. I didn’t welcome when you said you were leavings but I welcome the fact that you brought the subject out into the open, because it’s definitely something that needs to be talked talked about.

And I’ll repeat once again I have third position. I think I suppose I’m not on a conventional left and what left and right continuum. And strangely some of my old socialist beliefs fit into that third position quite well. But that doesn’t mean all of the stuff surrounding the Second World War that doesn’t mean it applies to me. It’s purely political theory. But the fact that we’re talking about this and recognizing that there are this is a broad church.

And there are many, many different points of view points of view within this group that is foreign forming at the moment. And what unites us is principally the demographic challenge on Western Europe! That’s the uniting point and that’s the point we really need to get behind. But at the same time we need to knock out some of these ideological points, even if any kind of power any kind of real political success is a long way away, because we need to sort out a standard line to take.

Chris: You know, I didn’t actually say at the time I don’t think but the reason I made that was going to make that video we’re in the description I said I will be explaining why I am cutting my tenuous links with PA, was, because I sat down and I thought, you know, first of all I thought about the reality of being a nationalist, you know, Woes made an interest in video I think it went up yesterday. Where he was saying, you know, he was just considering the likelihood of being assassinated. And he’s putting it right out there, but who knows what happens? Worse things have happened and less bad things have happened to political groups in the past.

And I was thinking those sorts of things. I was thinking what are my actual responsibilities? What am I taking, or moving forward in the twilight of my life now that might affect me? And I spent a good few days really trying to think of that and reading stuff that was relevant. And I thought, you know what the meaning, the meaning this movement has given to me through the responsibility is worth that. And in how would me and it made me feel like a man. And it made me feel mature and I was alright with that. But then the next bit [80:00] was what happens if let’s say for instance next week this community gets a media sort of expose, and then I’m associated with Nazism for the rest of my days?

And what am I going to have to make a video ago I didn’t know! I didn’t know that there was about Nazism! I didn’t know that the leader was into Hitler! I didn’t know! And that wouldn’t be believed! And so I wanted to make that point clear, before the event, because you can’t disavow afterwards, because it’s weak. It’s always obviously you’re just when you’ve been caught out you saw like oh I’m sorry I didn’t know.

So that’s why I wanted to make that point and I’m, you know, I’m kind of glad we’ve talked about this now again, because hopefully I’ve made that point clear. I don’t want anything to do with it. I don’t think it helps at the moment.

Simon: Horus?

Horus: I don’t know I’m just I’m thinking as we go along. This is so odd to actually know what’s right, because we’re not just talking about an optics debate are we? Like, because that that seems to tear apart the American alright. If we if it is just an optics debate, I think if both sides are right. As in we can’t join the Left and the centre and the traitor right in saying we’re gonna disavow all fascists, or anyone who’s sympathetic with Nazism, whatever.

On the other end obviously everyone who does work with fascists and Nazis at all just has a much harder task than what they’d have otherwise right. So obviously both sides are writing that and it is irresolvable as far as I can tell. But we’re also talking about well the thing is right in terms of what we actually believe it’s just I don’t give a crap that that Mark likes Hitler! Because I’m convinced that he likes he thinks it’s good for our people, right?

And the core thing there is that he cares what’s good for our people, right? So that doesn’t bother me. So for me I guess I am just talking about, you know how we can win how we can succeed. And that, of course, the thing that we’re all very concerned about if I understand correctly is that we’re just going to struggle to convince people like our families our friends their families their friends, and so on, so join us in this movement, because they’re going to be so alarmed at who we’re working with, right?

Is that what is that mainly what we try to resolve here? That we’re not gonna be able to convert, you know, more than a small percentage of people would you would, you know, that’s the main problem?

Chris: Horus for years always part of Narcotics Anonymous right. And why don’t it not quite yet Anonymous is an offshoot of Alcoholics Anonymous where all the literature was written in 1950s, Bible Belt America. And it’s riddled with God, you know, it’s a 12-step program. And twelve of seven of the 12 steps mentioned God.

And the problem I had with that when I was in NA was when you bring newcomers to NA people who are desperate for help and they’re all that they run a mile! And even according to Narcotics Anonymous is own research and something like 90% of people leave, because they’re not interested in that.

I used to go into Wormwood Scrubs and do NA meetings with the convicts, wherever you want to call them. And the prisoners. And, you know, that stuff they just laughter they laughed that. And at the end of a meet in every one holds hands you say a prayer. And they just laugh it I used to have to pick people up from probation centers and walk them to meetings.

And on the way I’d be like listen you can get clean it without a doubt, but they’re gonna mention God a lot. And these kids who’ve grown up in broken homes, or the mud will give them their first error in injection when they were 10 they just like what, you know, they don’t want to know. Now what I used to say was I get that you need a higher power I get that it doesn’t have to be a Christian God. But that should be saved for a lot later, you know, once people get used to trusting humans which is the first problem that we can start talking to them later about them having faith in something bigger than them.

And it’s much the same with all of this. You know, when I’m talking to people who have shown an interest people who know my channel from the stories and they say to me I mean, like all this nationalism stuff and I just they say what videos can you recommend? And I’m thinking right what ones aren’t gonna mention any of that stuff, because much like the god stuff in NA it will repel them they don’t want to be associated with that. They can’t defend it amongst their friends. Five, or six years down the line they might be able to when they’ve at the time and they’ve been around people and they’ve read the books, or whatever.

I’m not saying that anyone’s wrong about this stuff. I’m just saying in terms of the basics such as how we appear in the media, how the media will represent us, and how newcomers will be repelled, it’s a massive negative. And at this and at this stage I can’t see what we [85:00] benefit from it.

Horus: I do agree. I do agree.

Simon: Yeah yes very marketing isn’t it?

Horus: Um what I would say is that oh well I mean, say saying you’ve had you had gone ahead with what you were gonna say last week and you did, you know, cut your losses hires whatever it was the plan. You would still have a broader nationalist movement?

Chris: Yeah for sure. For sure. I mean, I’ve kind of shaped moved anyway I’m focusing on collectivization, that’s where I’m going at the moment that’s what I think, you know, considered quite boring street-level stuff. I’m really into what Gavin boab is doing as well I think I all.

Horus: Hail Gavin Boby!

Simon: He’ll go in moment going Boby Boby Boby Gavin Boby he was gonna be on this week but Gavin Boby is also concerned about some of the things that I’ve spoken about in the past, you know, because, you know, doesn’t want to come on the show.

Chris: There you go, you know, you know what I’ll have a word of him. But, you know what based on the patron he got off the back of the stream with me he can now boss one bust one mosque a month! And he has an 80% success rate.

Simon: Yes I know I’ve interviewed Gavin twice. I’d yeah really like Gavin. But yeah, he’s concerned about certain certain things.

Chris: What could it be? What are you talking about?

Simon: No it was actually the it was actually my when I came out on the JQ. I don’t know if I’ll go over this again. But when you break through this, or certainly in my case as a result of my conversation with Brian of London. Yeah I did suffer from JQ derangement syndrome for a short! While so you can find some rather unfortunate, unmeasured, not very well thought out comments, from me around that time. That doesn’t mean that’s what I believe, I think.

Once you as you as there as you go through the process the your opinions become a lot more moderate and a lot more balanced. It simply isn’t the fact, it’s not the jews everywhere! It’s much it’s much more complex than that, I can say this openly. But he was worried about what I might have said a couple of years ago.

Chris: Sorry go on Horus.

Horus: I’m just gonna say that the fact that Kevin’s not keen to come on with us that says something about what we’re doing. Because we are like, you know, we’re the Nazis to some people. And I don’t, you know, know I know that I’m not, you know, but I we’re still over the line, you know, I mean, over the line, you know, there’s a line for affirmation for a lot of people. We’re over it we were unacceptable even to Gavin who’s against Islam.

Simon: Yeah.

Chris: And Gavin Gavin is quite amazing he has some very interesting thoughts on the breakdown of the welfare state the NHS dole money and the ghettoization of immigrant communities. He’s got some really interesting and very White pilling stuff to talk about actually. I’ve got a lot of time for Gabby.

Simon: Yeah.

Horus: Everyone listening sugar should watch Chris’s recent chat with Katherine and take some that a chatroom.

Chris: Yeah I’d actually say Jake sees one’s better, because we kind of focus on the most busted stuff which I think has been, you know, he’s got been through the mill a few times out there, but when he talks to Jake’s and lot i.e., that he really goes into that stuff.

And I mean, I don’t want to go to off topic but I’m interest no saw there’s mud there’s multiple things going on. There’s a sort of political cultural changes of things up PA, but also social kind of change is going on. And, you know, many different things happening which actually look quite promising for us.

Simon: You know, one of the reasons why I want to speak to him again is you were you have heard the Nick Griffin interview? But it seems to me that I could have I could have taken advantage of Gavin Boby’s theories, because in the second of my interviews with him what in 2017 he was just beginning to formulate some of those ideas.

And I think they’re a great counter-argument to make Griffin’s kind of hopeless message about when society starts breaking down, all White people are lost. Because I think the ethnic groups aren’t a homogenous homogeneous group and society will break down in very unpredictable ways which won’t necessarily always be that disadvantageous to the indigenous population.

Chris: Yeah.

Horus: If we do speak together and one question I wanted to put to him it’s not sort of those that is quite a [90:00] complicated man but was just he says when welfare begins to become unavailable. Whereas all right my thinking is that’s one of the last things that our governments would allow to happen, because they haven’t imported these people by accident, or by drift by is there’s some element of that. But also I think that they want more and more Muslims flown in. Maybe up to only a point. But we haven’t reached that point.

And they and that they maybe even see them as sort of their moat around their castle that protects our rulers, traitorous rulers, from us. I thought I doubt that they will allow that to happen. Although nobody can foresee exactly, because I mean, in a situation of real chaos icy roads.

Chris: I think the NHS is really looking at imploding and I think that’s on its last legs. And there’s only so much money they can chuck in it and there’s only so many work in White people they can keep taxing for that. And you why you just want to get into this story. Well yeah if.

Horus: We can talk together now I bring these things up with him, or maybe if we talk again Chris.

Chris: I think someone’s giving him a heads up I think he’s here, but maybe not now.

Simon: Okay sorry here Gavin, you know, I’d love to speak to you. And I didn’t you don’t need writing about me then.

Horus: We can stay away from all the topic too doesn’t that’s fine.

Chris: Yeah is it isn’t it funny how this network works someone’s got through to someone who’s emailed someone who’s waiting on someone else’s Telegram and bogeys phone’s gone Horus and Simon are talking about you well through his wife out the bed run to the computer!

Horus: Just if you’ve only just started listening Kevin I think you’re a hero. And I very much admire what you’re doing. And if you would like to be on the show, because we can steer away from any topic you don’t want to talk about.

Chris: Hang on he’s saying he in capitals unless it’s not him he says he’s due on your show tonight at seven? Maybe it’s not him. Maybe it’s not him I mean, he’s already gone seven and it oh.

Simon: Well okay then this will be we’ve had a misunderstanding of emails, because we never.

Horus: Is this a four hour show?

Chris: Well maybe it’s not him but he’s also saying he hasn’t refused to come on. But if you got his email haven’t you?

Simon: I mean, email him after this show.

Chris: Yeah have a quick dinner and then we can through another.

Simon: We heard a complete misunderstanding of emails then.

Chris: It might not be him.

Horus: He’s put in capitals THIS IS GAVIN Boby.

Simon: Perhaps we could have another stream well I’ll set up I’ll set it all up again.

Horus: I just say one more thing about what we were talking about just before and the boba question. Just in terms of my stance on how we relate to the leader of our movement and by people who, you know, sympathetic to fascism, and so on, my stance is that that I have didn’t no question of me stopping working with him, or with them, you know, with that that part of the movement.

And I will argue what, you know, obviously not the whole of the up he’s gonna come to me asking me what I think about it. The more the role of appointed myself is a to break down that taboo. About it which is what my videos waned at. And B to just to anyone who sits why are you working with these people is to say why are you not working for our people?

You don’t have to work with PA specifically, but just why are you not trying to save the country from this disaster visitors that were in the middle? Of so that’s my stance for the moment maybe I can’t was something better, but that’s my approach for now.

Simon: Okay let’s move on to the next topic, because this is another topic that will kind of get as cold all the nasty names. But this was a kind of blue peeling, a White pilling thing that came out the other day. I think Laura posted it originally, but this is a graphic of recent let me look at it more closely. This is a graphic of voluntary enforced and voluntary returns from the UK from 2014 to 2018. And you can see that people will return to their countries of origin of their of their own accord.

So consequently a lot lot of the things that people have been saying on the internet about PA recently is one they’ve got no policies to solve the demographics problem. And anyway, repatriation even suggesting repatriation is something close to [95:01] murder!

But as you can see from this graphic here that’s not the case people are willing to go home. And wither with a staged policy of, for example, getting rid of all illegals and criminals with dual citizenship for a start, you’d get rid of a quite a large chunk of the undesirable immigrants that are here. And by incentivizing people you’d probably end up we’re not talking about a completely hundred percent White ethnostate but getting to an England the Great Britain that is pretty much the Great Britain we grew up with, say ninety-five indigenous 95% indigenous. You’d be left with the immigrants that with the people who have come here that really want to stay and really provide value to the country. But we’re still gonna get called Nazis and fascists for even suggesting it.

Horus: A massive world unto Laura further turning this up and publicizing it, by the way, and massive world until iconic loss for his video in the same vein a few days ago. Everyone should check that out and share that one around. So I was there a question?

Simon: It’s more of a statement. Okay what do you think guys is the question?

Horus: There’s no right this is great for anyone who says repatriations can’t be done and it’s not going to happen it if fucking is! It’s happening already.

Chris: Yes I think is a White pill. I’m sorry to go backwards that was Gavin he’s just emailed me is him he thinks he’s coming on your show at seven o’clock. Simon he said he never said he wasn’t coming on so that was him. So that was him. There you go okay. So I told him I’d tell you.

Oh yeah that graph it was incredible I mean, they I thought Dan’s sorry the Iconoclast video with uh his name not power was it just talking about it and they just this idea that if you can’t do that you can’t do that everyone loves it the progressives like you can’t do that I mean, having millions of these people walk all off way around the world and flood their countries there’s such a bigger deal and everyone was just let it happen while they were in their dinner but what send it back you can’t do that! I mean, it’s absurd! It’s just absurd and I thought it was really great Laura to think that out yeah agreed.

Simon: One of the entry I suppose we need to what I wanted to do now is talk about the kind of practicalities of how this would go about. One of the interesting points that Dan raised I thought, or Enoch Powell raised in the interview that damn played with him in 1976 oh I think it was. Is all you have to do in many respects is to make is to make Britain a less conducive place to be. And not give not make life so easy for people who have just arrived here.

And the example that that Enoch Powell use would was not giving people benefits for dependents that are living in foreign countries. All you need to do is apply UK law and very, very quickly this is the life in the UK isn’t as nice isn’t as cushy and probably if you change that people start to leave.

Chris: Yeah I really I agree I think there’s a few different things there for the money there for the easy ride and with a few few things like what you just talked about a cultural change. Just White people collectivizing I think will make them think will hang on this is slightly more hostile to the easy ride we thought we were coming to.

And this is sorry to come back to it but this is kind of what Gavin’s saying he doesn’t think this stuff is gonna be difficult. He thinks these people start leaving in their droves once they see just the initial changes well, you know, once they see little changes happening where people are collectivizing people are changing their minds pressures being put. They’ll start thinking well I’m not gonna build a life here, because I can see what happens in 5, 10, years and I tend to agree with him. I think it’s really White pilling stuff. We, you know, you’ve kind of been sold this idea that things are set in stone and far from it.

Horus: I think a fair number of people would start leaving even if we just had sort of frequent extra bacon expressions in the media, or from a few politicians seriously! Quite a lot of people to here purely, because of the ridiculously pathetic! Craven state that the country as a whole is in. And if you just had a bit of assertiveness, you would have quite a lot of people quite frightened, and it would some of them would start eating back out of the door right, because if we like actually we’ve ever seen assertive Saxons in our lifetime.

And it’s no joke right, you know, [100:02] people who are the Anglo-Saxons and Celts you and not under the leash of traitors, or not I’m not wholly under the latest traitors, will be quite a fearsome sight! Before like quite a lot of the scumbags you’ve come in. And the people who genuinely loved us, you know, you’re genuinely liked and have adopted our way of life they were happy to go. I’ve got a jewish friend ended happily cause themselves English and I it’s just not in any way antagonistic towards the source, or subversive. And like that’s a sore person at once then you actually, you know, contribute, a good friend like. People who’ve come in it, because they see now easy to exploit we are they can be got rid of quite easily, at relatively little cost stuffing.

Chris: I agree and sorry just quickly so I mean, I also think these things like where criminals get sent home and, because once you send there all the immigrant criminals home then their families go home and again I think that starts the ball rolling. People think we’ll hang on this isn’t what we thought it was. No I think this is all very interesting. A very, very White pilling.

Simon: I think something else you can do and particularly with the Muslim was in question well actually Muslim and jewish question. Is simply apply law on things like, for example, well polygamy with Muslims, you know, a man in Britain can have one wife and one family and one set of benefits for that family if they’re unemployed. You apply English law on halal and kosher on Sharia and birthing courts on gentle music mutilation. And once the environment is geared in such a way that it’s going to be very different difficult for these people to practice with their religions which they sincerely believe in, then they’re going to be look there’s gonna be less propensity for them to stay I’m sure.

Chris: That stuff particularly Royals me, because these laws already in place. Why we’re letting people have multiple wives and claim benefits for all of a man their kids this is just insane! These laws already exist! Just implement them, shocking.

Simon: Yeah totally! And also I’ve kind of thought about this quite a lot other things that you can do with this yeah simply stopping the favorable treatment. I think it’s pretty clear that this positive discrimination I don’t think that’s the term they use now and in this century but positive justice discrimination in terms of benefits housing jobs, you know, we’ve seen the cases in the BBC. As soon as that stopped and you and you give you put people on an even playing field then that’s also going to make life much more difficult for them. At the moment we’ve got a society that’s completely geared to making the immigrants triumph above the interests of the indigenous population.

Chris: Well it’s absurd that these people have become protected groups, because it’s a really it’s a very weird little language sort of linguistic trick that, because they’re protected groups. Of what actually that means is they’re first-class citizens, because we’re not protected we then become second-class.

I remember when I first saw mark say about us being second-class citizens in their own country I didn’t kind of buy it. But when you think of it from that angle that these other groups are protected and, you know, look at Rotherham look at all that lot, the media the authorities the social services the police that they all turn their backs! Just crazy! Absolutely crazy!

And yet all that’s got to change! And actually that stuff has got a change in line with our laws that are already there it hasn’t got it we I’m going to change our laws people have just got to enforce them. I find this side of things particularly infuriating, because the other things should be on top of those things. But they that’s not even being done. I mean, what, how much do our governments hate us?

Horus: I think that’s a crucial point our Lords should actually not only not change they should be restored to what they will were they were like a lot of the laws have been added, you know, the powers have been added to state over the last 20 years, specifically to deal with problems mostly caused by Muslims. All the new powers and the consi intelligence services saw the ability to lock people up without trial for 28 days.

That’s all coming to deal with problems that have been imported all of that should be repealed! Like it got rid of! All the new all the new bodies set up so ever to us make sure we closed! Christen our engines should be restored and the people who supposedly caused the need to override those things should be expelled [105:00] obviously! Obviously! Right it does shouldn’t even be the same she expelled from the country. So in this moment sorry here I was just going to say Kevin seems quite intent on you looking at your emails.

Simon: Yeah I’ve seen I can’t do the show and right at the same time.

Chris: Simon and Horus I don’t know where but this is the direction you want to take things in but it’s kind of relevant to the direction we’ve gone in what do you make of Kai Murros and his angle and what’s going to happen? Because I ain’t Irv you dim and he says that there’s going to be not a revolution of such but a violent uprising. His kind of angle is, because we haven’t got the privilege of White flight he says you move out of London you’re in Birmingham in a couple of hours. And he says when you chase animals into corners us when they’re at the most ferocious. And he’s completely sold on this. He says that Europe is going to explode in the next few years.

Horus: Yeah I have a litte whirlwind right he’s saying we will win.

Chris: Because we got the numbers and also we’ve got nowhere else to go this is our only homeland, you know, it’s not like it’s not like America where you can drive for five hours and move to another White community. We’re running out of them.

And that’s his whole angle he gave a great speech in London a few years ago. No one’s seen it’s worth checking out. But I do I listen to him sometimes I think it’s kind of rousing for the sake of rails. It’s kinda like nationalist propaganda you listen to one of his speech you listen to him talk and you all get sort of fired up. And then you that slowly sort of dissipates and you become a nationalist, rather than support me.

Mark doesn’t buy it at all. Mark mark says if the White people haven’t haven’t done that on the back of all the child rapes they’re not going to do it at all, which is also a good point.

Simon: I think we need to rest and they think well collectivise a lot we need to be aware of who we are and yeah simply who the who the enemy is who the invaders are. And before that kicks off we need to be aware of that and once the rasa Nation starts, once the collectivization starts and the awareness of our identity begins, then I think there’s still a political solution.

And if well before things get really violent I think the environment is gonna become more hostile and with more hostility whilst we’re still a voting majority and bring in things like repatriation in a more hostile environment where they’ve got less benefits I think that’s the thing to be focusing on now, rather than some kind that pie-in-the-sky idea of a of an ethnic civil war, because nobody wants it really.

Horus: Seems you Chris that Kai Murros seems between two things at once. Is like spot prediction and part I don’t want to I’ll choose a better word, because what were the word that comes to my mind plus something illegal but, electrifying, you know, it’s part yeah and the election electrification at the same time which I think is how reality is, you know, in things can become true, because you expect them.

So he is so more that we believe that we will fight. And I think he’s employing, you know, it’s horrific violence for more than we believe that we are at least capable of that and destined for that if not something before that. Then we will eventually fully turn and face the enemy and we will demonstrate that, in fact, they were wrong to her to have tried to chase us down.

I like to imagine that we, you know, if nothing else we will at least manage that. And he betrays it as though it will be glorious, right? That we will eventually take back everything that it’s asked yeah it’s a crazy thing to imagine. But obviously I don’t want it to come through all that killing so I hope that actually we achieve something before.

That mom is well I don’t have any predictions but my expectation is that if we are to win it will be by, in fact, fracturing and breaking apart and taking down in pieces the current ruling class. Which I think can happen without violent Wars. Well there is violence already fought without a great explosion of violence. But as to what will happen I really have no idea is this oh it’s all kind of in our hands if anything.

Chris: I might my faith is in the White work why ethnic English people realize in they [110:00] are a class getting that class consciousness sort we’d saw it for the Marxist little bit yeah getting that consciousness together, collective eyes in and, you know, we’re only we’re only vulnerable, because we’re not, because we’re totally atomized.

We’re being attacked by collectives, by Islam by the government, by the polices and there’s such a huge number of us so much more than all of them if we were actually to collective eyes I think politics will change that will be downstream of that kind of cultural and social change. And that’s when it all starts, because no political party is going to sit there and try and do what they’re doing now if they see the ethnic English as a collective, because they’ll be thinking, you know, we have to have beat these people. At the moment they go.

Horus: I think no Morgoth says I’ve been last year that struck me was that if you look at things from the point of view of that rulers I’m wrong probably very mangling what he said. But if you look at things from the point of view of rulers they may already be terrified of us! They the things that they’re doing these awful outrageous things that they’re doing to constrain our freedom then much worse than destroy us, could actually be interpreted as acts of desperation already.

I don’t know whether this is right. But it may be the case, because they realize that they’ve done such bad things already that they’re already destined for the gallows! Which I’m not threatening anyone but I’m saying there are people angry enough that should their power break down, if it breaks down quite suddenly and so they don’t have it they don’t have a chance to fly out the country, you know, before they got before they got hold of by revolutionaries of some kind there’s this intense anger and hatred towards them! And so maybe Pollak.

Chris: No I think you’re absolutely right! I thought I totally agree with that! I think that all these draconian censorship measures these aren’t things I put in place worried about the future, these are a response to things they’re seeing they’re trying to tame the beast that’s looking to get out of this cage! Okay one of the things cause anyway.

Horus: I’d like to think that.

Chris: No I think most certainly I think that the more draconian the more fear that you can measure. Kai’s got these ideas where he says that come the revolution there there’ll be there be teams of teenage nationalists going into the universities and tearing the professor’s off of the stage and making a walk around the towns with little balls around their neck just explaining their treachery!

Horus: And that’s a lovely image, because they are some of the worst most malevolent people against a Fisher some remind us all in case, you know, it’s Entropy if we got any only got a few minutes left. They might be.

Simon: No no questions have no donations so not a very significant.

Chris: People were too engaged to dare tear themselves away from the screen.

Horus: All right that’s good yeah I retract my.

Simon: I’ve got I’ve just refreshed it yes I’ve just refreshed it I was gonna make an interesting point now. Okay as you can see I refresh Entropy. We’ve got 5 GB pounds from George who says thank you George. Dangerfield was right recent optics are horrendous if we follow this path we’re done pushing anything relating to the JQ, or World War Two is suicide to any, nor me look at how people reacted to the labor anti-semitism scandal.

So people are I’ll say you’re right there Chris. Okay this the next super chair is from Steve Ben Bob who says three sends three US dollars. Chris I still get three about three letters per year from Scientology even though I told them not to contact me some 20 years ago. Interesting points I don’t know.

Chris: I think it was, because I said when I look when I release that video about wild cut tires it was like I was swooped down on like I was leaving Scientology I think that’s what I mentioned that,

Simon: Yeah, and we probably got no got that much time for questions do Matias got there’s got the top question it’s not about adopting, or promoting National Socialism it’s how you will respond without lying and cooking nonsense when Emily Emily Maitlis says we fought a war against these evil ideas such as homogeneous policies. We yes some what’s it disingenuously uses it [115:01] uses the wish but she would.

This is one of the things I think that there’s difficult there’s a clip of Nick Griffin kind of denying his beliefs. I think he comes out worse and comes out as weak. I think it’s in the hard talk interview that he does perhaps he comes out as weak because, you know, this isn’t what he thinks we’re in a very difficult situation on this.

Chris: Yeah mark mark said that to me he said it’s important to be honest, because you’ll get called out otherwise and so that again complicates things.

Simon: Yeah. I the last what we were talking about previously I think yeah I mean, obviously people are increasingly dissatisfied with the powers that be and they’re introducing draconian laws. But we’re in an international situation. It’s not just Great Britain something very similar happened is happening in lots and lots and lots of different countries.

And I was gonna get onto this at the end of the stream but we’ve only got three minutes so it’s probably not worth it. But the example of what’s happening with coronavirus now. They’re succeeding in bringing the lock down. They’re succeeding in introducing elements of a police state relatively easily. What on earth can we do about it?

Horus: Keep working on this such a bland answer I guess but keep raping people yeah.

Simon: I mean, yeah I find it very difficult to believe yeah I don’t know I think we’re in a good situation.

Chris: Simon can you repeat that questions their apologies it went funny for me.

Simon: I was saying that in the perhaps it may be true that people the powers that be are introducing draconian measures, because they’re scared of us. But it’s there’s an international network of countries it’s much bigger than just Great Britain and very, very sadly what we’ve seen through the corona virus is how successfully this international operation works, because they’ve managed to introduce even more draconian measures in many, many countries and no, or hardly anybody is complaining. And is pathetic here people are clapping like seals at 8 o’clock every night yeah. In 30 seconds everybody’s going to come out on their butt on the balcony and clap like idiots. Sometimes I give up there’s this times when I get kind of very depressed by this.

Chris: Oh no no I mean, that I think the pandemic thing is excuse me something on this scale is relatively new I mean, if this fades out say August November try again next year. I think the novelty edge excuse me and people have had a bit more time to get bit more information but I am I couldn’t be more optimistic about things like, you know, I my channel didn’t start up as a nationalist channel. It kind of became sort of a sort of a classic liberal channel. Then it got a bit more red pilled and it slowly got to around today. But even about a year ago when I was talking about these things looking at the difference in the numbers, the amount of new channels popping up the amount of newbies coming over I just see something happening.

And I just see something growing. And again like I say I’m getting 30 odd emails a day and so many of them are saying things like two years ago I started tentatively looking at this stuff but now these are the conversations I’m having in the pubs with all my friends these what my fair family are talking about get-togethers. And this is coming all the time! I think this stuff is pretty like wildflower fire!

And I also think that 30, 40 years of multicultural propaganda, well that was all very well before the internet, but now the Internet’s changed that power. And also it’s got to the point now where the internal contradictions of multiculturalism are exploding in people’s daily lives and no amount of propaganda can do anything about that.

And people are looking for solutions people are looking for answers and people are scared and that’s when people get busy. I think the next five years are gonna be incredible! And in five years time you see where we are I think it’s going to be amazing!

Simon: Well on that note I think we should finish. As you can see that the people are clapping and hooting the horns here in Barcelona. So perhaps perhaps everybody apart for the bloody catalogs are gonna break free, because they cooked as fuck to be perfectly honest. Anyway Chris it’s been really great talking to you it’s but it’s been great getting to know you actually it was long overdue and thanks for a great show. Everybody to say [120:00] information,

Chris: You know, though give well I didn’t scream tonight, because my stream was a bit high-energy and I was worried I’d be too tired for this but now I’ve done this I’ll be doing a stream on my channel in about 20 minutes and thanks for having me on Simon and you Horus it’s been an absolute pleasure I feel like we talked about some relevant topics. And thanks for the chat I’ve been following that lots of very interesting stuff. So I’m glad I came.

Simon: Well thanks for coming. Horus only a final thought.

Horus: I just hear a plug to my friend history bro who was on Chris who did a video with Chris recently and I think they might do another one soon but they did an interesting chat about Angkor Wat which you can see on history post channel. And Chris I would just say to you I am very glad that you didn’t stop at the armored skeptic stage!

Chris: Me too!

Horus: But thanks for coming on.

Chris: Nice one thank you.

Simon: Thanks everyone! Good night. See you next week.

Horus: Cheers all.

[121:02]

END

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See Also

Simon Harris – My Speech to the Patriotic Alternative Conference – Mar 16, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 19 – A Conversation with Nick Griffin – Apr 14, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 21 – Keeping A Political Project On Point with Dangerfield – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 23 – Is Populism and Patriotism Enough? with Paul Rimmer – May 5, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 22 – Gavin Boby on Mosque-busting and the Breakdown of Society – Apr 28, 2020 — Transcript

Simon Harris – EF 25 – The State of the Art with Jeff Winston & Nick Cotton – May 19, 2020 — Transcript

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