[Morgoth talks about the Chinese Social Credit System vs Western Political Correctness system as means of control over their populations.
He describes how the Chinese system of high-tech surveillance currently rewards traditional moral behavior, like being family orientated, socially helpful, patriotism, following the rules, etc., whereas in the West, anti-traditional values are rewarded and encouraged, which is leading to the destruction of the West.
So we have two systems that both reward and punish, yet the dissidents in each, are reversed, whereby holding certain Western conformist views in China would make you a dissident, while holding certain Chinese style conformist views in the West makes you a dissident in the West!
Besides the different values being promoted by each system of control, the Chinese system is up front and in your face, State mandated, while in the West we have a system that promotes “tolerance” while being highly intolerant of dissent, using both State and non-State institutions.
Interestingly, Morgoth briefly mentions the neo-reactionary concept of the “Cathedral” to name the system of real control, that rules even over the “Synagogue“. He rightly expresses doubt over this idea, which I see as an attempt to deflect from orgjew’s central position behind what is happening to us.
Systems of Control
China’s Social Credit vs
Western Political Correctness
Oct 17, 2020
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Published on Oct 16, 2020
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Thanks to Theberton for the intros and outros
[Intro music and imagery by Theberton]
Hello again there folks. So it seems this year since the Covid crisis broke, and then with a lot of other reasons the general direction of the West we hear more, and more, about the Social Credit System in China. And I thought I’d take a look at it and then actually have a look at the situation in the West to a degree. Because I question whether we can still have this liberal chauvinism when we look at other places in the world.
And people, especially now with Covid, they’ll say that we are heading towards this Chinese system of Social Credit, where everything’s going to be tracked. We’re going to get facial recognition and it’s this kind of reason for the elites to bring it in. Which there’s some truth to, of course.
But first of all let’s like just take a look at like what this Chinese Social Credit System actually is. Because it isn’t one system, it’s four systems running at the same time and being tested out around in China. And it’s designed, at least in theory, it’s designed to clamp down on petty behavior, on petty crime, and on anti-social behavior. Which is surprising, because we’ve got this vision now of China as being this kind of hyper technocratic, neon, modern state, where the Chinese people themselves are just like these worker ants. But this isn’t actually the case.
China still has some quite wild regions, and it has a lot of criminality. It has a lot of drug gangs. And so the Social Credit System works by rewarding good behavior and punishing bad behavior, because they do everything through apps on phones now.
And so people have a score which is logged on almost everything they do. And the score will go up depending on if the system which in China is the government, is happy with that and you get deducted points if they’re not happy with that. And so just from the Wikipedia article to get a gist of this, it is:
“In addition to dishonest and fraudulent financial behavior, other behavior that some cities have officially listed as negative factors of credit ratings includes playing loud music, or eating in rapid transits, violating traffic rules, such as jaywalking, and red light violations, making reservations at restaurants, or hotels, but not showing up, failing to correctly sort personal waste, fraudulently using other people’s public transportation ID cards, etc.
On the other hand, behavior listed as positive factors of credit ratings include; donating blood, donating to charity, volunteering for community service, and so on.”
So the incentives are that you will be rewarded with credits, and that opens up more opportunities for you. If you are civic-minded, you are helping the old lady with her shopping, …
A famous example which seems to pop up time and again, when you look into this, is that of the typical Chinese young woman, and she’s married. If she’s married to a bureaucrat in the party, or somebody respectable, she’ll get more credits on her score. But then when she goes to the local supermarket, if she buys like big packages of nappies — diapers to the Americans — then she’ll get rewarded again, because it means she’s doing everything they want.
They want women to have children. They are going to incentivize that through giving her more credits and more points, if you like. And she’ll go higher up the rankings. And it’s actually it’s something to be proud of! You can virtue signal how high your credit score is in China.
So it isn’t just this kind of Orwellian way to crush the Chinese people, because the government’s evil. There is a reasoning and logic behind it. And they’re looking for ways to sort of reduce pretty criminality and especially corruption out in some of the more rural areas by deducting the points. And when that happens you find that your life gets more, and more, difficult through the institutions distancing themselves from you and making your life, they don’t really want to interact with you.
If you’re good then it opens up, you get a higher score, it opens up a lot more opportunities.
And so elsewhere it gets a little bit interesting, because in June 2019 Samantha Hoffman of Australian Strategic Policy Institute argued that:
“There are no genuine protections for the people and entities subject to the system. In China there is no such thing as the rule of law. Regulations can be largely apolitical on the surface can be political when the communist party of China decides to use them for political purposes.”
And this is a funny bit:
“In January 2019, George Soros criticized the Social Credit System saying it would give Xi total control over the people of China.”
So this is where I think it gets a little bit interesting, because George Soros has pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into doing exactly this in the West through a different system, which we’ll come to later. George Soros absolutely does want to regulate the behavior! But he sees himself, or his wider circle, let’s say, as being the people who should dictate that.
And then in the West it’s political correctness. So it isn’t that we have this open and free society in the West. Thought and actions are really regulated. And will come onto that. And a typical story then. You have to ask:
“Well who is the big loser in this system, beyond just the petty criminals?”
And an example which pops up again, and again, is when you have a say, in political terms — which is where we’re gonna go — the liberal blogger who lives in China, who lives in some city in the middle of China. He has a blog, he writes a blog, publishes it on the internet, and he is then really critical of the system, of the Chinese government, of the ideology, of the social fabric of China. Then this is the exact opposite of the young lady who gets extra points for buying nappies, because he is actually undermining the system. And the way the Chinese government are going to approach this is that he’s therefore undermining all of China, and the Chinese people. And his Social Credit rating will drop through the floor!
This is, funny enough, is the exact kind of person who George Soros would fund and help in the West.
But then it happens, is that there was one example where somebody hasn’t left his apartment for seven years, or at least his city, because whenever he tried to log in to go on a train journey, to go to Beijing, or go out to the countryside, he found that he was being rejected. It just wouldn’t allow him to go anywhere. He finds that he cannot get any kind of bank loan. There’s this constant soft pressure on him, because he is a political dissident.
Now the American Conservative says:
“‘China is about to become something new. An AI powered, techno, totalitarian, state.’ writes journalist John Lanchester. ‘The project aims to form not only a new kind of state but a new kind of human being, one who has funny fully internalized the demands of the state and the completeness of its surveillance and control. The internalization is the goal agencies of the state will never need to intervene to correct the citizens behavior, because the citizen has done it for them in advance’.”
So this is interesting, because what they’re trying to do is induce and incentivize, indirectly, behavior in the Chinese people which they don’t actually have to think about. It’ll become habit. And it’ll become a norm.
Now, of course, let’s switch back to the West. And what we can see is that what the Chinese State are doing here is a form of political correctness. But their framework for political correctness, it isn’t actually communism, or anything like that, it’s traditional conservatism, really. It’s you have a big family. They are pro-Han and really repressive.
So the Muslim population in the east feel the brunt of this. Where they are kept firmly in a box by all of these things. They have even a completely different system of Social Credit. Where like a young man from the Uighur province starts off, like at zero, and it’s extremely difficult for him to work his way up the system. And so that means he is like limited in where he can go and what he can do, like drastically so.
But then in the obviously the majority Han population it incentivizes towards a productive middle class with families, who abide by the rules and live a happy life.
Elsewhere, the American Conservative goes on:
“The bottom line: A Chinese citizen cannot participate in the economy, or society, unless he has the Mark of approval from the President, the country’s all-powerful leader. In a cashless society the state has the power to bankrupt citizens instantly by cutting off access to the internet. And in a society in which everyone is connected digitally the state can make anyone an instant pariah when the algorithm turns them radio active, even to their family.”
So the politically incorrect in this Chinese framework have a very hard time with it, indeed! There’s no doubt about that. This isn’t liberal society. The politically incorrect, they find it difficult to get jobs, they find it difficult to travel, they get doxed in public! People with extremely low credit ratings are put on posters and sort of mocked.
So you get this kind of public humiliation of the people who are in this framing. The least productive, and the least law-abiding, because China they don’t have to worry about political correctness in the same way that it exists in the West.
So it creates incentives that push people towards the middle class, essentially. And some women, some young women, especially they actually are fully on board with it, they think it’s fine, because they benefit from it. And in that way they don’t see it as being oppressive.
So this would be the equivalent of say, a social justice warrior, or antifa, or some soy boy bug man in the West then. Because they will think that they are perfectly free in the West. Because they’re never actually running up against the negative sides of the system, of the political incorrectness. They don’t actually know what that is. They would see it as just being a “good person”. So the Social Credit dox is a way which they can humiliate the people who fit in the least in this system.
And you can see the big winners of this system in Western cities today, because there’s always Chinese tourists running around the place. The people who go on holiday at Paris and take selfies before the Eiffel Tower, these young Chinese couples, they are the big winners of this system. They are the new burgeoning middle class which is incentivized through the Social Credit System.
So what we see here is a system which I think reminds me of a video game, where you go around your day-to-day business and how you conduct yourself is rewarded, or punished, depending on what it is. And in the case of the Social Credit System, it’s having a big family, it’s turning up to work, it’s getting your taxes done. It’s not lying in bed, it’s not being an alcoholic, it’s not being a prostitute. And it has to be said, it’s not questioning the status quo!
So again you can see how this is actually equates where the people who are the most successful in this society, and you can see what the Chinese government are trying to do is to create and incentivize the highest, the most productive, to rise up in the society, and they’ve got reason to do it. Because eventually far from it being an oppressive, totalitarian, hellscape, these people can go on holiday to the Alps! They can go and look at the Vatican and all of these things. Because they are the big winners of the system, because they’ve abided by the rules, and they’ve done what the state wants of them. Now in the video game since they’ve done it, they’ve played the game well.
Now I actually think it’s quite soulless, because what they’re trying to do is induce a morality through state power and technology, rather than having something, which is religious, or spiritual. They’re trying to get there using technocratic means. But I do think it’s interesting to compare it to the situation in the West.
So the Chinese Social Credit System is a system of control toward a certain end which the communist party, if you can still call China communist I mean, a system which incentivizes a huge amount of its population towards being hard-working and obedient middle class, that’s debatable. But what we do see is that it’s a system of control which has a certain end in mind.
And there’s a certain mindset in the West, a sort of Western liberal chauvinism, which has a knee-jerk reaction to immediately look down our noses at the country like China, or anywhere else in the world. But is our current situation in the West actually any better? If we compare them, especially the native populations of Europe, or in America, White people, can we still do that? Can we still like look down our noses at a Chinese system in its entirety?
In actual fact, I don’t think. So and at least what we have to get into here, is in China when you’re oppressed, you know why, and you also know who’s done it and why they’ve done it. And it’s the State! The State, the communist party just comes straight out with these proposals and then they’re not going to apologize for it.
Whereas what I find in the West, the method of control in the West is almost always hidden. And it’s because the system is far, far more decentralized. So this is what the term which you see going around now is the “Cathedral” from the neo-reactionary sphere.
But if you just take, to take an example, if somebody loses their bank account, so Mark Collett and Laura Towler of Patriotic Alternative were recently just banned from banks, because their opinions and their activism is politically incorrect!
Now, the question here is, who did that? And why did it happen? Well, we don’t really know. And they were never told. So it is that then the bank? Because the bank is now abiding by its own politically correct protocols? If that’s so, then where did they come from?
Or is it the case that the state put pressure on the bank to do this? We don’t know that either. Was it one of the thousands, upon thousands, of politically and correct enforcement NGOs operating across the Western world? Did they do it? Did they put the pressure on the bank? We don’t know that either!
And, in actual fact, this is the way that the control is enacted over a population of the West.
So if this YouTube channel disappears tomorrow, my YouTube channel, will I know why it’s gone, and who did it? No! In actual fact, you’ll never find out. You never find out that if you’ve over stepped the mark. Even, you can be as careful as you want, they’ll never tell you. You’ll never find out. You’ll never find out that if it was an accident of the algorithm, you’ll never find out that it was this NGO, or the government, or this political party, or anything that you’ve said.
And what we see in the West is that this is mainly the decentralized means of controlling the population. But if the totalitarianism masks itself behind private institutions who are all fully on board with it. And it’s actually quite difficult to get to the root of the problem. The neo-reactionary would say it is just sort of self-reinforcing. I’m not too sure about that, but that’s a different debate.
But what we can see is that it leans towards, which is another interesting term from these circles, “bio-Leninism” where the elites and are in cahoots with the bottom. So this would be something like “Black Lives Matter”. And they are in cahoots against the middle class.
And so what we see is something, which is almost the polar opposite of the system in China. So the system in the West is far more decentralized, so you don’t actually know who, or what, you’re up against for a lot of the time. Unlike China, where it’s the state just coming straight out with its own morals, and it’s own incentives.
In the West you have incentives to be politically correct, which is to say, you don’t ask about gay marriage, or you don’t question demographics, you don’t question the behavior of minority groups, you accept terms such as “White privilege”, and on, and on, and on, it goes! So this is, by and large, decentralized.
The difference with the Covid crisis is that the government have actually come out and laid down the law. Which is actually rare. There’s hate speech laws and things like that but, by and large, the persecution, the incentives, the behavior of the population which has become automatic around the self-policing of the population which has become automatic, didn’t come directly from the government, it came from all of these other institutions. It came from the media, it came from the education, it came from the NGOs, it came from knowing what you can and can’t say in social media.
It came, because you will get fired from your job! And so we could go on, and on. But what we see is that the system of control in the so-called “liberal West” not only does it exist to pretty much the same degree as this Chinese Social Credit score exists, but that it’s much more sophisticated and decentralized.
Now the average sort of liberal, social justice, activist, lefty, would then say:
“Well that’s your choice. You put yourself in this position.”
But this is exactly the same as the big winner in China thinking:
“Well I’m okay. I’ve done all right out of this, because I abided by the rules, and I got the diapers — the nappies — from the supermarket, and I’ve had a family.”
Whereas in the West, again it’s completely the other way around. The incentives of political correctness, are the destruction of what we can think of as a traditional population, and the traditional morality.
And I think what this leads us on to is a contrast between the two systems. So when we talk about the “Cathedral” in the West, which is this decentralized node of power, it leads towards atomization. It runs primarily now on “Critical Theory”, it’s pro-minority, and it’s pro-guilt, for the host populations! So then it breaks down their defenses and they’re psychologically prepared for all of the punishment, and the changing demographics, and everything which comes in.
In China, I’ve made up my own little term here for centralized power of the Chinese state, which is the “Pagoda” which is in contrast to the Western “Cathedral”, and we can see that it’s collectivist, it’s traditionalist, it’s pro-majority, and it’s patriotic.
Now the question is which of these systems is superior, or morally just?
Well it depends on your framework. Neither one of them are liberal. But at least the Chinese government has the honesty to oppress you like, honestly! Whereas in the West we have to pretend that it’s a question of morals, or etiquette, or something like that. All of these coping mechanisms. Because it’s more difficult to pin down where the incentives, where the brainwashing, where all of these things are coming from in a decentralized system.
So the Western one is just more sophisticated, and more dishonest, but the end result is actually much more catastrophic for Western people, than the Chinese system is for the Chinese people.
In the West the system incentivizes towards a “perfect citizen”, which will in the case of the host population, will be a White Western gay bug man who sits in a cubicle all day, and then he watches Netflix and he has all of the right politically correct opinions. He’s a big fan of people like Ash Sarkar, or Owen Jones. And he laps up all of the BLM protests. He does everything that he is incentivized to do.
That same person would be in China, the blogger who hasn’t left his city in seven years, because the system thinks he’s a disaster zone, and he’s destructive to the well-being of the Chinese people. Meanwhile it’s the people who want to have kids, raise a family, and do the right thing, they are the ones who are punished in the West.
And so what we see is two holistic systems here. What I think is interesting about the Covid is that they are actually literally going to bring in this means of control through technology, but you’re still going to have all of the other stuff as well! And I think what we get to, is two holistic systems. But if I’m honest, both of them are completely hollow! But at least in the Chinese system they are trying to replicate an older, religious, or spiritual, meaning in life. But they’re doing it through this technocratic, 21st century way.
In the West, what we have is they can and a complete inversion of all traditional morality, which is being pumped out by, … The reason why it is decentralized is, because if you could vote it out, everybody would! And so it all comes in through myriad different institutions, and power centers, so it’s like fighting tentacles on this giant leviathan in the sea, in the old days. And it’s catastrophic!
So I get tired of this knee-jerk, liberal chauvinism, which automatically assumes that we have it like better here. It isn’t! It’s just that the system of oppression in the West is better at wearing a mask!
And again you can see the how the morality works, whereas the, because the politically incorrect in the West, are essentially unpersoned. Completely unpersoned! And again it’s, because it’s decentralized, private institutions, that people can wash the hands of it. And people can say:
“Well it isn’t outright depression! You can just go to another bank. You can just use another payment processor. You shouldn’t have said that! It’s as simple as that!”
So thanks for listening folks. And I’ll catch you later.
[Outro music and imagery by Theberton]
xx UNFINISHED TRANSCRIPTS — Volunteers Needed
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Morgoth’s Review – Hope Not Hate and the State of Play, Feb 2019 — TRANSCRIPT
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