Greg Johnson – The Ayatollah on Counter-Currents Radio – Sep 10, 2022 – Transcript


[Greg Johnson at Counter-Currents talks with The Ayatollah about his recent doxxing by The Times Investigations Editor, Dominic Kennedy.

The Ayatollah, aka, James Owens, is a witty, talented, pro-White activist, who tirelessly fights, via his talk shows, against the (((regime))) that is intent on destroying the UK through ongoing mass non-White invasions.


In an email reply to Kennedy, James, quite rightly stands his ground and rebuffs his tormentor’s accusations, saying:

I reject the concept of racism outright! And I view it with nothing but contempt! The concept of racism is simply an anti-White libel, and a weapon of mass psychological abuse, devised and wielded to keep White people from thinking and acting in our own interests, while our sovereignty, and our homelands, are taken from us! I refuse to be gaslit, and victimized, in this way, as all people should!




NOTE: Here’s Ayatollah’s Odysee channel –




Greg Johnson


The Ayatollah on Counter-Currents Radio


Doxed & Defiant


Sep 11, 2022



Click here for the audio:


September 12, 2022

Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 483 
The Ayatollah: Doxed & Defiant

Counter-Currents Radio

173 words / 1:17:26
Recently-doxed British commentator The Ayatollah (Odysee, Telegram) was Greg Johnson‘s special guest on the latest broadcast of Counter-Currents Radio, and it is now available for download and online listening.
Topics discussed include:

00:02:41 Who is “The Ayatollah”?

00:05:39 On British accents

00:07:45 The Ayatollah explains his avatar (Derrick Day)

00:11:49 How would you characterize your message?

00:15:45 Why “rage porn” is counter-productive

00:21:35 “Politics has to be more than just therapy”

00:28:40 How cities breed weak social networks

00:34:12 Does the Ayatollah have an archive of all of his content?

00:36:41 Is doxing an effective deterrent against White Nationalists?

00:45:42 On the meaning of laughter

00:48:50 The attack piece on The Ayatollah

00:50:02 The Ayatollah’s response to being called a “racist”

00:55:12 How would Derek Day respond to the Queen’s death?

01:03:59 Is there a difference in being the subject of a king versus a queen?

01:09:42 The Ayatollah’s impression of Millennial Woes

01:10:37 Impression of Mark Collett

01:12:13 Impression of Tyson Fury

01:13:20 Conclusion

01:15:44 How can people follow and support your work?






Greg Johnson: Greg Johnson. Welcome to Counter-Currents Radio. In the first hour of today’s live stream we have a special guest, the Ayatollah. Okay. Let me just deal with my technical ineptitude here. All of this will be lost, like tears in the stream of time, once the post-production people get, … Good god! [chuckling]


Okay folks, I apologize for that. We’re just gonna start over again, and through the magic of post-production it will all disappear, and I will seem professional, and indeed flawless.


I’m Greg Johnson. Welcome to Counter-Currents Radio. I have a special guest today in the first hour. It is the Ayatollah. The Ayatollah is a commentator from the UK who was recently doxxed. And he is now defiant. And I thought that this would be a great story to tell, because whenever somebody gets doxed, I love to see them standing up for themselves.


So Ayatollah, welcome to the show.


The Ayatollah: Well, thanks very much for having me. Yeah, I was delighted to be asked on. Good to be here.


Greg Johnson: Well, I have shared in the Dlive comments and at Odysee your links. And they are also creeping across the bottom of the screen in a ticker tape type fashion. So folks, if you would like to follow his work, these are his various platforms. Also on the screen you’ll notice our Entropy link. Entropy stream dot live forward slash Counter-Currents.


If you would like to send a question, or a comment, the ones that get noticed first and are most welcome are the ones that are connected with donations. We do use this platform as a way of raising funds. We have been cut off from the global credit card processing industry for more than three years now.


But there is a platform called Entropy, that allows people to use credit cards to send money to Counter-Currents. And so we very much appreciate them. And it’s great if you can use their platform and help them out as well. They are staunch defenders of freedom of speech on the internet. And those are precious few.


Also if you’d just like to send Dlive tokens, or tips through Odysee, we welcome those as well. And in the course of today’s show. I’m going to be talking about the Ayatollah, about his recent doxing, and also his broader work. But if you have questions for him, definitely send those in. Help me out here. I really want to hear your questions, as well.


So Ayatollah, I guess the first question I’ve got is, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself without doxing yourself any further? And especially the kind of work you do and why you chose the name “Ayatollah”? That’s an interesting one.


The Ayatollah: Right. [chuckling] Well, should probably go back to the beginning. I suppose I received what I would call the final red pills in like 2016, 2017, as was the case for so many people, probably including a lot of people watching and listening.


It was kind of a New Year’s resolution for 2019, to kind of actually start participating offline, in the real world in the nationalist community. Which was a good year for it in this country, because like later that year Patriotic Alternative was established. Then I got on Telegram at the beginning of that year.


A few of the people I talked to in April of that year established a podcast, a weekly podcast, called the Absolute State of Britain podcast that actually got picked up by TRS in about I think late May, early June. However one of the original founders, there were three founders, one of them was leaving the show at the end of June. And basically I was next cab off the rank. I got asked if I would join. I decided I needed a nom de guerre, if I’m not totally butchering that borrowed term from French. I probably am, philistine that I am. But there we are, and we discussed a few things. And this was the subject of intense over-analysis in the recent Times doxxing.


But I settled on the Ayatollah, because just Euro, one of my former co-hosts in our sort of preliminary call before the first episode I participated in, said it. And I thought:


“Yeah, I like that!”


It’s quite an exotic sounding word. It’s got what you’d call the definite article at the start, which I like. It’s sort of funny and obviously, you know, Ayatollahs traditionally in our lifetime, they’ve not exactly been great friends of the global order! [chuckling] And you probably [word unclear] that if you wanted this podcast in Britain! And it was. I mean, more than anything it was funny! This is one of the things The Times grossly over analyzed, saying:


“Oh Ayatollah is quite an intimidating figure! And they’re also kind of like arbiters of divine truth. So maybe he thinks he’s that, as well?”


No! We’re having a bit of a laugh. And one of the reasons we’re having to laugh is you get to the dissident understanding of the world. And you understand actually there are an awful lot of unpleasant things going on. You don’t have a lot of immediate power to do anything about them. And one of your kind of coping mechanisms, to keep each of us sane, is a little bit of humor.


And they have an extraordinary tone deafness and inability to understand this, as well as much else. And then a lot of the things they pretend not to understand for the sake of manipulating their, … Excuse me. Their audience. Bit of a wobble. But yeah, … That was it.


I joined The Absolute State of Britain. Then I was on that podcast for a bit over a year. Started my own YouTube channel. We did the odd live stream and we guested on the other live stream. And I kind of got the streaming bug and decided I’d start streaming. That funnily enough coincided with me leaving TASOB, for quite controversial reasons. I ended up meeting a nationalist, a girl through the nationalist community, who was half Indian, which given that we were quite hard-line, was seen as a bit of a difficult thing to abide.


But I started streaming on my own and literally just over two years ago. I’ve been doing that kind of well, it was kind of once a week, generally on a Friday. And then, as of this year in April, sort of twice a week.


But while a lot of that was going on there was a big investigation to try and establish who I was. But I actually did this. I mean, one of the funniest things about this is, I did this from the outset with a slightly different accent which I’ve gone into now, which I’ve now abandoned, because my ruse has been exposed.


I sort of try to sound like I was from the southeast of England, when I’m actually from the Midlands. And I’m back into my normal accent now. They don’t actually sound that different. I listened back to a bit of my stream from last night. And there are almost no differences even to my ear. So it probably didn’t fool anybody. It was probably a waste of my time all these years. But there we are.


Greg Johnson: So say that last sentence in your fake accent, and then your real accent. I just want to see if I can hear the difference.


The Ayatollah: Right! So if I go into the accent I used to use, there are sort of southern vowel sounds. Like I could sound a bit. Like I was from the southeast of England, or something like that. And it did convince one, or two people even from that part of the world. And then like, if I go back into my own voice. Now, if I said the accent I used to use it got sort of southeastern vowel sounds. It’s probably not that different to American listeners, to be honest. Like a lot of British listeners couldn’t tell which difference last night either.


Greg Johnson: No, I can tell the difference. That’s very, very interesting. I am not a connoisseur of British accents, because I just haven’t spent enough time in Great Britain. I’ve always wanted to ask a Briton who’s got an ear for this. Do you ever watch Absolutely Fabulous? It was a show from the 90s.


The Ayatollah: I never really watched it. I do remember it. I mean, I know Joanna Lumley was in it.


Greg Johnson: Yeah.


The Ayatollah: I never watched it. No. Why? What was the, … I may have sort of fallen short on that already. What was the question?


Greg Johnson: There’s a character in there who goes by the name “Bubble”, played by this actress Jane Horrocks. And she has the strangest accent! And I wonder if it was just made up, or is that some sort of regional British accent that I’d never encountered anywhere?


The Ayatollah: Honestly. I mean, in this country anything is possible! Because even where I grew up there’s, … I grew up grew up in a bit of a no-man’s land for accents. So the accents are not massively strong where I am. But go 15 minutes one way it gets very strong. Go 15 minutes the other it gets very strong in a completely different way.


So, Britain’s a mad place for accents. I mean, I know the actress. I don’t know whether she was using her own accent. But she’s from a place called Rawtenstall in Lancashire. Was it a sort of accent where she would say like “Burnley”, like very pronounced “r’s” like that, by any chance?


Greg Johnson: I do recall her doing some sort of pronounced “r’s”, yeah. I’m trying to recall some of those, …


The Ayatollah: Kind of a Lancashirian accent. Yeah, she’s sort of from up near Burnley, sort of Burnley, Blackburn, Preston way. So you do get that in Lancashire. I’d have to go back and listen to the character. But there we are. So I mean, to say, all kinds of weird and wonderful, and not so wonderful things, happen with accents in this country. It’s a bit mad actually!


Greg Johnson: So one more thing. This is trivial, but explain your avatar please. Who is this angry guy in your avatar? People want to know.


The Ayatollah: And they should want to know, because it’s Derrek Day. Now Derrek Day was a organizer and security man for the National Front in the East End of London in the 1970s, and 80s. Now the avatar itself, is a screenshot like a kind of an upgraded screenshot from a video, like camera footage taken outside his flat on Hyde road in Hoxton, in 1977, in the midst of, … I think the National Front that had an event that day, that had been ambushed by communists, and whatever.


And there were some journalists like hovering outside Derrek Day’s flat. Derrek Day had enough of it at some point. He could handle himself. I think he boxed a bit. And then I had one anecdote of him pointing a gun at some communists once. But he jumped out of a window. He jumped out the front room window was flat on the ground floor. Basically charged at a journalist. And then asked them if they wanted something on how many people had been mugged.


Now obviously this guy was involved in the National Front, because there were loads of foreigners being flooded into London. And would you believe it, loads of people started getting mugged. In the video he then goes on and explains basically why he is in his own words a racist. And it’s basically, because of the powers that be, and the way they stick up for foreigners, at every level.


So it’s not a new problem. And, of course, as if to vindicate him, you know, Hoxton where he was from, as well, it’s actually quite a gentrified area now I think. But the area all around there is basically colonized by like Bangladeshis and people like that, and has been for a very long time. Like Brick Lane, and all of that. I mean, that even a lot of non-British listeners will probably know of Brick Lane, and how it’s associated with like Bengali street signs and everything.


And so that, yeah, that’s Derrick Day. Derrek actually died in October 1995, during protests against the export of live veal calves from Brightlingsea, Essex, where I think he then lived. But he was very influential in leading those protests. But he died of a heart attack. But yeah, Derrek Day definitely a character.


He’s in a documentary about the Clash called Rude Boy, as well. And excerpts of this feature in the intro track to my solo streams. One of which I did last night. And normally the midweek ones. He’s talking into a megaphone at some kind of National Front protest in London, again in the late 70s. And that’s featured in a documentary about the Clash called Rude Boy.


I just like the aggression of the man. I like the fire of him. And that’s the story basically. That’s Derrek Day.


Greg Johnson: That’s great! That’s great! So have you had to charge out, leap out of windows and charge at anybody recently, given the negative publicity that’s come your way?


The Ayatollah: I haven’t. And I’ve generally taken it as a compliment for reasons I suppose we might get into, which is the fact that I’m really a nobody. Like my live audiences were barely breaking triple figures. And I was happy with that, because we were a little community keeping each other sane.


But it turns out that the oldest newspaper of record of the English speaking world, deemed that worthy of a massive investigation which even involved their investigations editor listening to all of my streams, in his free time, for no pay! I mean, talk about posting your own “ells”, I think the young folks say. I mean, he turned up at the home going back, getting on just over four weeks. And so obviously I knew the doxxing was imminent.


But it’s sort of a compliment to us in a way. I mean, it’s certainly not a sign. Because what I will say about Dominic Kennedy, the journalist, is he’s been investigations editor with The Times for 18 years. He’s got fairly sort of well documented, alleged ties with kind of, … There’s something called the Institute for Statecraft. And they’ve got something called the Integrity Initiative. Which is basically an arm’s length thing that works hand in hand with the Foreign Office, supposedly. And he’s alleged to sort of have some ties with that.


So he’s fairly well credentialed in terms of operating on behalf of the powers-to-be. There’s certainly no mistake about that. He’s been investigating Patriotic Alternative, of which I’m a supporter for a long time. And that’s basically that.


So I think the fact that they would scrutinize somebody like me, and treat it like they found Shugar [?], or whatever. Or got into the sphinx’s left paw. But by unmasking me, it’s not a sign of a regime which is terribly confident in its own legitimacy. That’s what I would say about that. But I’ve not had to climb out of any windows yet! No.


Greg Johnson: Well, that is interesting let’s just talk very briefly about your work. How would you characterize your message, and your interests, and the internet community, that had grown up around your streams? Just briefly.


The Ayatollah: Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously I came from the Absolute State of Britain. And we, being a weekly show, we tended to discuss the news stories. But sometimes as it went on we tried not to do that. Because, I mean, what you kind of end up doing. And I imagine you probably sympathize with this a although funny enough it’s one of the things I always remember Morgoth talking about how when he discovered Counter-Currents, it’s a revelation, because:


“Like I wasn’t just wallowing in this misery porn anymore! I could read about the dark web [?] from a dissident Right perspective!”


So you had that kind of thing. But with the Absolute State of Britain people say:


“Oh, it’s good. But it gets a bit black pilling.”


And it’s like, well yeah it would, because you’re just talking about the news.


So one of the things I wanted to do with my streams, I would generally always do what I’m doing on Friday night and have a guest on it, first. And we would just have a chat. And a lot of it wouldn’t be political. I mean, I’ve spent hours before, like half an hour before answering a question, you know:


“What’s your favorite Hall and Oats song?”


And things like that. I’ll take almost any question. I get asked a lot for impressions. I’ve been asked to sing on streams. And yeah, it becomes, to be honest, the audience numbers steadily went down probably, because it came very sort of self-referential, and kind of insular and consumed with its own lore. Just weird little kind of quips and in jokes from viral videos and stuff. And a lot of it, in the end, I think we were all just trying to keep each other sane.


Like obviously I would talk to a certain degree about news and current affairs. But I tried not to do it where it was just like:


“Well, look at what this Afghan did in Milan! Isn’t that appalling?”


It’s like we know these things are happening. And we can’t actually directly do anything about it. We try to encourage people to sort of do the proactive things in the real world, like actually participate in it. You know, get involved with things like Patriotic Alternative, and that. But it was just a laid-back chat really. And this is what’s all the more remarkable about it.


And it’s very revealing that this wasn’t discussed in The Times expose of me, at all! Is that honestly, a lot of my streams it’s just nonsense! It’s just people having a laugh! Like me interacting with the chat. A lot of whom I know in the real world, because I see them at events and things.




So funnily enough, I do a stream at the end of every month with an Irish fellow goes by the moniker Bleeding Holograms, and an American who goes by the moniker, Homa Tawk. And we call it the Friend Simulator. Because It’s just like it can be four, or five hours of us just having a chat and cracking jokes, and just being lads. There’s not a lot to it.


I’m not a cultured person. I’m not a reader. I’m not a great sort of provider of original insight. I’ll do a psychoanalysis of the semantics of what’s in a Guardian article now and again and things like that. And I’ll do read-throughs of articles, and whatever. And say:


“Well, this is what they’re saying. This is what they really mean.”


And I enjoy that kind of thing sometimes. But honestly, it’s a bit of a laugh, it’s a bit of a laugh a it’s just kind of, I get a lot of impression requests. People have taken to asking like:


“Do this impression. But in such and such a person’s voice.”


Some of its people from the dissident Right time some of its not. And I’d be kind of dignifying it too much if I went into it any more than that really. We kind of turn up for a laugh. And, as I said, it’s just a community. Like I get told a lot:


“Your streams sort of keep me sane.”


Really. Because we live in a very hostile world. I mean, this actually got into the main Times article about me. One of the things I said, because their first question was:


“Why do you run a quote ‘racist’, end quote YouTube channel?”


Now I got asked 35 questions by the investigations editor from The Times. Certainly nine and a half thousand words. And I’m probably going to do a stream maybe this Monday going through my answers. Obviously very little of that made it into the article. But some of the most important words I gave him actually did. They did this thing they so often do, of like doing the:


“Oh my god! Wow! Just wow!”


Pointing and sputtering at that. And then putting in some of our most incited critiques. But the first thing I said in answer to that question was, not that I’m on there now. But I was.:


“At the time. I use YouTube to communicate and entertain, and hopefully lift the spirits of other non-compliant White people. By which, I mean, White people who reject the psychological abuse, dispossession, and humiliation of the present anti-White order. I’m trying to provide myself and the audience with a bit of relief in a very hostile alienating world.”


I then did a bit of a dissection of the concept of racism. But that can probably wait. But I mean, that’s what I do. I tried to get away from just rage porn, rage fuel. Because look, as I’m very fond of saying as anyone who listens to me, and is listening tonight will know, or this afternoon, if you’re in America, or whatever. I’ve often said:


“Look if rage was fuel, I’ve had a full tank for years! I don’t need anymore.”


It does you no good. After a certain point you understand what the problems are. You understand where we are. And you want to try and carve out the best life for yourself that you can, while sort of spreading the word.


Greg Johnson: Absolutely! I think that’s very, very constructive. I don’t like doom scrolling on social media, that kind of stuff.


The Ayatollah: I have to tell people off, … Yeah, I have to tell people off sometimes for sending me like just rage fuel. I’m like:


“Look! Do you think I don’t know this stuff’s happening? I don’t need it.”


Greg Johnson: Yeah I put something up on Twitter. And I also put the same thing up on Gab and Telegram about the Queen’s death. And I made a slight change in the formulation for the Twitter post. Just basically doing a little AB testing for click bait. And it reads:


“As long as Queen Elizabeth was alive Britain’s enjoyed a real but superficial sense of continuity, while their country was changed beyond all recognition, by hostile aliens. Now that she is gone, many will reflect on the dramatic decline of the UK and summon the will to reverse it.”


So I made that last sentence to be a categorical, certain statement. Whereas in the other forms I said:


“Some may reflect on this, the dramatic decline, and summon the will to reverse it.”


But by putting it in a very, very forceful way, I got a lot of reactions! It’s now got 61 comments. It’s been retweeted nearly 200 times, nearly 1500 likes. And a lot of the comments take the form of absolute, aggressive, dogmatic, black-pilling! Just:


“No they won’t. That’s impossible! Oh! Wishful thinking! Ha! Ha! Ha!”


And I put it that way, because it was indefensible. And I thought if I make something slightly indefensible, it’ll get more reactions. And it got a lot of reactions. But looking at these people with their aggressively dogmatic black-pilling, it really is just self-indulgent, the way that they engage in this. I know I was being provocative by being very cock-sure about that some people are actually gonna open their eyes, because of the Queen’s death, and the reflection it’s going to entail.


But they’re much more categorically dismissive of this. And it just strikes me as a kind of self-indulgence, sort of embracing the worst possible outcomes. Believing the worst, rather than fearing the worst, they’re just believing it. And I think that’s very, very unhealthy. And I wish there was some way to shake people out of that. Because it’s very, very widespread. And they really come at you with knives if you are dogmatically optimistic, in the opposite direction to them.




The Ayatollah: Yeah, you do see this sort of thing. I mean, I’ve had the odd run in with people on Telegram before. And I’d just like had the admin for the page have to say:


“Sorry, we try and humor that guy, but he’s really black-pilled.”


And it can lead to people being yeah quite sort of I mean, destructive is probably putting it a bit strong. But like unconstructive, certainly [chuckling]! For whatever the difference is there. Unfortunately. I think it’s something which you could get kind of tin foil, or probably not entirely tinfoil about how stuff like that can be kind of used by bad actors for demoralization purposes, you know, concern trolling, or whatever.


But I think also you do get people who are just sad sacks. I’ll say that you see this a great deal. There’s a cohort of people on the internet in Britain who do this with regard to Patriotic Alternative and their efforts, which have been excellent particularly of late actually. To do with stuff like Drag Queen Story Hour and the relocation of foreign men in hotels and university halls of residence over here. They’ve had some notable sort of contributions to successes on that.


But you just get people who a lot of the time they’re finding copes for doing nothing. They don’t want to do anything! What they’re actually doing is trying to sort of provide themselves with rationalizations for just doing nothing:


“Oh, they’ll get prescribed anyway! Oh. No. You can’t do this, you can’t do that!”


And it’s a very prevalent thing, a lot of the time people are just trying to justify their own laziness. And if they had a more constructive attitude toward it then we would be able to get more done. But by the same measure there’s one thing I’ve found I’ve learned, as I’ve got older in life, it’s just that [chuckling] there’s always going to be a certain proportion of any population where, … As I say, there’ll be a certain proportion who are just more negative than positive. And what they contribute they don’t really offer a lot. They are defective personalities in one way, or other. And you certainly get a lot of those congregating on the internet.


And sometimes they’re people actually they tried to participate a bit and they have fragile egos. They didn’t get the kind of recognition and status they felt they deserved. And so they developed a grudge. I mean, an individual’s ability to harbor a grudge is extraordinary. I mean, I’ve seen people that have held grudges against people involved with say PA, because they got blocked in a chat once for just being idiots.


And a lot of the time, yeah again, they don’t get the status they feel they deserve, because they’re just poorly adjusted. And yeah, you end up having to marshal a lot of this sort of stuff on the internet, and just learn to take it with a pinch of salt, I suppose. But yeah, you certainly see this a lot in comments.


Sometimes people just want an outlet, because they’ve got a real sense of anger and disarray about what’s going in their country, and it’s understandable. But it can become a bit poisonous when it’s so unproductive.


Greg Johnson: Yeah. A lot of people just use the internet as like primal scream therapy, or something like that.


The Ayatollah: Yeah.


Greg Johnson: They’re just venting into the void, spewing bile into the internet void. And nothing really constructive comes out of it. Maybe it feels good for them to get it out of their system. But I think that politics has to be more than just therapy! Maybe that’s the start for some people.


Maybe the start for political movement would be something like what you see in Fight Club, where people are going to 12-step meetings and encounter groups, and things like that. But it’s got to go beyond that I think.


The Ayatollah: Yeah. Another thing that occurred to me when we talk about this, is people also when they operate purely online, it’s amazing the things people will say, and the positions they will take, and the abrasiveness with which they will say it when all that they’re just, … This is funny for a bloke who just got doxxed, who’s got Derrek Days as avatar. But when they can just hide behind an avatar.


Like obviously in the national community in Britain, I’m part of it in the real world, when you’re just an avatar, if you’ve even got one, you can just shoot your mouth off you’re not gonna have to deal with it. You’re not gonna have to answer to anybody in real life. You’re not gonna have to form real world relationships. You’re not going to have to get things done! And that’s the biggest difference.


One thing that I mentioned being on the Absolute State of Britain podcast previously. And one of our antidotes to just talking about horrendous news stories, and we’d say:


“Well, what can you do about it?”


Well, you can’t immediately go out and do anything about it. What you can do is actually start participating in the nationalist community. And start contributing towards something over the long term where White people can actually advocate for their interests and stand up for themselves. And we would always advocate for that. And I mean, I always sort of evangelized on that.


Because I will say that, and I’ve kind of been a broken record on this for three years. Like starting to participate in the real world was a bit of a revelatory thing for me. Because it’s like you find yourself. Because I don’t sound too kind of like 1960s. But I think even as a nationalist I think until you actually engage with other nationalists in the real world you don’t realize quite how much you’re having to put on an act. Maybe in the workplace, even with your family.


As a White person, non-compliant White person, there are very few contexts in which you can be yourself. Even White people that comply are living the lie, to a large degree. They having to suppress their instincts and not believe their lying eyes. And, you know what happens is you can’t be yourself.


So you can’t be anything that’s actually worth being. To actually join the community is to actually be somebody, not in some sort of grand elaborate way, but being somebody in the way that one of your ancestors 700 years ago would have been somebody in the village. If they were the blacksmith, or if they were this, that, the other, you’re just part of an actual community. Makes all the difference in the world.


I think there are many reasons why there’s so much depression and alienation in the world today. One of them is the fact that people aren’t part of communities in any meaningful sense. They kind of argue with people who support the same football team as them on Twitter and things like that.


And a girl I know started coming to sort of little nationalist social get togethers recently, and hadn’t really done it before. And was saying:


“I wondered what you were all gonna be like. I wondered sort of how much you’d have to filter myself.”


Because you’re so used to doing it. You assume you’ll have to do it everywhere. Like are they not going to be hardcore enough for me, or whatever? And she was like:


“I quickly learned I could just be myself.”


And it’s such a relief for people to have that outlet. And that was another thing actually with doing the streams is like, okay, now that was remote, it’s virtual. But it just gives people a bit of relief listening to somebody else talk honestly. And then just everybody having a bit of engagement via the chat and everything. It just keeps people saying in a really unnatural, really hostile, world.




Greg Johnson: Yeah, accountability is incredibly important for psychological health. Years ago I met a psychiatrist who basically only prescribed drugs. He said talk therapy doesn’t help. If you want to talk about your problems talk to your bartender, talk to your priest. He would just prescribe medicine. However, he said that he discovered that there was another factor that you had to have for the medicine to work. And that was the people had to be accountable to other people, to keep promises to other people, as a regular feature of their lives. And therefore he did not treat people who were unemployed, retired, or independently wealthy.


And the reason why is that if you’re unemployed, retired, or independently wealthy, you just don’t have the context of obligations and accountability that normal people have, that is essential for mental health. And without which even the best calibrated antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs will not restore you to a healthy state of mind. You’ve got to be accountable to other people.


Well, think about people who are depressive, and black-pilled, and paranoid, and alienated, and their only community is the internet, behind the avatar. That is a state of unaccountability, detachedness. They’re interacting with people. But they’re interacting in such ways that they’re not really accountable. And they’re not really real. They’re not really there as a flesh and blood person in meat space. There’s no danger of them being decked for being a total arsehole! [chuckling] And it just allows them to vent and be anti-social. And it doesn’t allow them to overcome the alienation that’s driving them in the first place.


The Ayatollah: Yeah. I think there’s a lot now. And we’ll probably see that, … I think as a sort of a Millennial you kind of perceive a bit of this in Zoomers actually. That people just don’t seem socialized. And again not having to face the prospect of look if I take too many liberties here, I’m just going to get my lip busted! That that counts for a lot with some people. Some people do need that it’s just the way it is.


But it’s funny what you were saying about like the psychotherapist you mentioned. People without obligations that are disconnected. It’s like:


“Well, there’s only so much I can do for you.”


And it made me think of something, that you kind of started to hear stories over here, going back probably in the past sort of seven, eight ten years of footballers, you know, soccer players, footballers who have retired. And these are usually lads who’ve been part of a group, they’ve been part of football squad since they were probably anywhere between about six years old, and about 12, or 13. And they’ve always been part of teams. And particularly if they’ve gone through the academy system from a young age, they’ve trained more, or less, every day. Training with a group of lads, had a laugh with them, gone out, win, drawn, and lost with them. Sweated for each other. And they’ve got a purpose. And they’ve also got adulation.


And then one day they wake up. They’re 34 35, 36, 37. And a lot of these are people that were quite wealthy. But they got no purpose anymore. What’d you do with yourself? And that’s a big thing that’s lacking in the world in which we live today. I mean, is Blair Cottrell on tonight? I saw Blair Cottrell in the sort of promo for this.


Greg Johnson: That’ll be tomorrow.


The Ayatollah: Tomorrow. Sorry, right. Yeah. I mean, it’s something I’d like to look into more. But I saw something Blair Cottrell posted a long time ago about life in the modern city where you’re surrounded by massive numbers of people that you don’t know. And you’ve got kind of no kind of, … I mean, this would be the case even in a racially homogeneous society.


But it’s obviously far worse in the kind of dystopian hellscapes that have been cultivated over recent generations. And where you’ve got all the racial diversity and incompatibilities, therein. There’s something incredibly lonely and alienating about being surrounded by such large numbers of people where you don’t know each other. You’ve kind of got nothing to do with each other. And it’s just kind of not making a point that well here.


But it kind of goes back again to some of the Robert Putnam stuff, where, I mean, he was enough of a naive true believer apparently to believe that his study was going to find:


“Yeah! Diverse communities are way better!”


And, of course, it didn’t. People engaged less, they stayed in more, they were less happy. Because there’s something so unnatural about it all. It’s like the Dunbar principle, I think, of like we’re sort of geared for kind of tight-knit communities of about 150 people.


Greg Johnson: Right.




The Ayatollah: And get beyond that. And it’s a bit much for us. Now, I’m not saying let’s try and reverse the industrial revolution, or whatever. But I think we could obviously make it a far better fist of where we’ve ended up, with a completely different sort of global order than the one we’ve got.


Because, if you were to gear it around people and the well-being of communities, rather than trying to atomize communities, so that people are very, very easily managed. And so that you can ultimately just socially engineer them and siphon them into whatever you want to them, and whatever conditions you want to create for your own convenience, then, yeah, we’d have a much better world.


And certainly it goes without saying that racial and ethnic diversity would not really be a part of that. There’s something that could be managed in certain cases. But managed it would have to be. I mean, both, you know, online and the way the internet works, and then also just in the real world, there’s a lot about society now which is very alienating. And people that don’t even always end up being socialized very well for it.


Greg Johnson: One factor that I think leads to alienation in very large scale societies that doesn’t have to do with diversity, is simply the illusion of choice. Because it’s very interesting to note. I noticed this when I lived in New York. New York, you know, city like 10 million people in New York, and millions more within a short drive. You’d think that New Yorkers would have rich circles of friends, because they have so many people to choose from to form relationships with. You’d think that they would find people who really suit them! They could find the perfect set, right. The perfect group of people.


But no. They tend to be among the loneliest people on the planet. And I wondered, well, maybe it’s, because they have so much choice. Because, if you have a lot of choices, you can be perfectionistic. You can think:


“Yeah, well, there’s another one, a better one, that’s going to come along. I just wait. I don’t have to ever see this person again.”


And it leads to, I think an unwillingness to just try and commit to being nice to people, and living with people. Because you don’t really have to commit to living with anybody if there’s so many choices around. This is why I think dating apps have created so much loneliness. Because there are so many choices available, nobody has a pressure to just say:


“I’m gonna make this one work!”


This is why people in small towns have better, larger, circles of friends, and better marriages and closer relationships, than people who live in large cities. Even though in the large city you can think:


“I can hold out and find that one perfect person.”


Well, chances are, no, that’s not going to happen. And chances are you don’t need to find that one perfect person, because we’re not all that different, when you get right down to it. Unless you’re a really unusual person.


And I do think that that is one of the things that sort of modern liberal society and modern mass society, liberalism, because it puts so much emphasis on choice, makes a fetish of choice, and being a chooser. And then mass society giving us so many apparent choices, I think it leads people to again just sort of not settle down and be fully real and fully accountable, and try and make relationships with work with the actual people around you. Even in large cities in the past there used to be very compact neighborhoods, where people knew one another.




The Ayatollah: And there were concerted efforts to break that up. As well.


Greg Johnson: Absolutely!


The Ayatollah: Because it was a problem for the powers that be. But I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with what you’re saying. Just to say quickly, I think you could summarize it as “ignorance is bliss”. And then also yeah, as you say, liberalism with its fetishization of choice, it leads to, everything’s commodified. And then relationships and everything else are commodified. Heaven forbid, you just make something work, you know.


Greg Johnson: Right.


The Ayatollah: And also, because people construct these identities which revolves so much not around well having a common community. Because that’s something that’s just been decimated massively, undersells it. But it’s been their identities are constructed around like their cultural choices, their consumer choices, their political views, as opposed to just being kind of thrown into the same community in a more natural way. I mean, even as you said, this was also present in cities. And there’s been great efforts to sort of break that up. But yeah.


Greg Johnson: So I have some questions here for you. And folks, if you want to get on the questions go to Entropy stream dot live forward slash Counter-Currents. Hit the green button. Leave your donation. Leave your question. Leave your comment. We will definitely get to those first. And then we will also deal with some in the Dlive and Odysee chat.


So Gaddius Maximus writes in with 10 US dollars. Thank you:


“Apologies if Tollah has already addressed this. But please tell us if you have an archive of all your stuff and will re-upload sometime, especially your excellent conversations like the one you had recently with a certain convenience store enthusiast?”


Oh, I know who you’re talking about there.


The Ayatollah: Yeah, I’ve got everything. It’s kind of been retired temporarily. I think I may bring some of it back. What I would say is Gaddius Maximus, yeah, you’re a gentleman. If you get in touch with me, I possibly can’t right away. But if you get in touch with me, I can give you any of the shows you want.


But yeah, he references Rich Hauck there. Whose excellent work on who owns the advertising industry, was actually referenced in my email response to Dominic Kennedy from The Times. I had Rich on my channel in June. And despite his excellent work, I was aware that there were going to be some members of my audience who weren’t familiar with him. So I felt like I was really doing him a turn by getting Rich on, because he’s just a lovely bloke to listen to. Really nice bloke.


I think there’s something quite unique about a lot of his writing. And there’s a lot of research and detail that goes into it. But it’s driven so much by kind of feeling and about the little, just the little kind of almost mundane things, that it’s very often focused on the things that are lost in the kind of process of the societies that are kind of being created. And the way that the direction in which society is being led basically from the top. He can look at the ice cream machines at fast food restaurants as an indicator of the decline of social capital, or the decor in Pizza Huts in America, and things like that. I just think there’s something wonderful about that. I can’t speak highly enough for Rich’s writing.


I loved having him on and again yeah if you want that one, or any other Gaddius, get in touch with me. They’re on the back burner for the time being, because I’ve had the Ayatollah [chuckling] on me! I’m generally very careful in what I say. And I’m very diplomatic.


But the laws in Britain are some of the worst in the world, when it comes to, if you’re a non-compliant White person! It’s just extraordinary! I’ve got friends who’ve like had their door smashed in and the house is raided, because they dared to talk back to some entitled African spewing bile against White people on the internet! It’s, we live in a real anti-White Police State here!


So yeah. But I mean, yeah Gaddius, thanks for generosity as well recently Gaddius. But if you get in touch with me mate, and nice to meet you in there. Yeah I can send anything over to you as when I get the opportunity. But yeah, I’ve still got everything.


Greg Johnson: That’s good to know. That’s great. So Lothrop Evola has written in with 60 US dollars. Thank you:


“I’ve always enjoyed your work Ayatollah. A lot of British nationalists have been doxed in recent years. Do you think this is slowing the growth of the movement, or do you think young people will continue to join despite the doxing risks?”


The Ayatollah: I don’t know. I mean, it’s hard to say. I mean, I will say that when I got doxxed. I mean, mine in terms of the scale of it, like I said this on my stream last night, I’ve already said at the outset that I get like about 100 live viewers on my streams. So really you’ve heard of the expression “trying to swat a fly with a 10-pound hammer”, this was more like trying to take out a nationalist with an intercontinental ballistic missile, really. And they still missed!


The scale of it was phenomenal. Two Times articles, 80 minutes worth of podcasts, a YouTube video, the Guardian picked it up, The jewish Times, whatever picked it up. The Jerusalem Post, or, no something, or some Israeli paper picked it up.


The way the nationalist community responded to it was incredible. I mean, Dominic Kennedy was the lead journalist. If you go and look at The Times YouTube video talking about how they:


“Unmasked Britain’s most racist YouTuber!”


Who like:


“Oh, he’s full of vitriol, but trust me, he’s really bad, but he speaks in euphemisms! But trust me, he’s really awful!”


It’s like, all right most of its not even political, but fine.


But if you look at the comments on that, it’s basically it’s like another Kennedy assassination! [chuckling] It’s horrendous! In terms of Dominick Kennedy, it’s pretty brutal!


But just in terms of all the offers of help I had, I could have gone on ten holidays by now, if I wanted to. All the support I had from the nationalist community was incredible! I think necessity is a mother of invention. And there’s a real community there now with the nationalists in Britain. And anyone who’s been through the same thing would tell you the same, by and large.


And once you’re in it, you kind of understand that. And I think this is a bit of a problem for the enemy, is that we’re not just people talking on the internet anymore. There’s an actual community. And they don’t think, have quite the same thing, because they don’t have the same incentive too. We understand the stakes of the situation we’re in, and have a fundamental level of opposition to the present order, that’s not really within their comprehension.


So a lot of these are armchair people. And yeah, probably does deter people. What I would say is like realistically if you’re not like somebody who does what I do, and have done, and goes on podcasts and streams, and you get doxxed. Like what are they going to dox you for? Like going on a walk and having the wrong views? Who gives a shit? If I can be graphic about it, you know, forgive my language.


But that’s one of the problems they come up against. And also the more the community grow grows the more sort of anti-fragile it is. And I think that’s a difficult thing for the enemy to contend with if I’m honest.


Greg Johnson: Right. One thing that I like to see when people get doxxed is for them to make the doxxers regret it! And by that I simply mean, well, you don’t have to slink around in the shadows so much anymore. You’re getting all kinds of free publicity. And it’s wonderful if people who are doxxed, instead of doing less, end up doing more. Because that means that the enemies are multiplying the forces against them by doxing! They’re not taking us out! They’re making us bigger, and stronger, and more focused.


They’re not rational enough to maybe be able to control themselves. In the end they probably can’t help it. They’re just going to keep doing this kind of stuff. But it’s good, if we make them regret it. And it’s bad if we let them win.


So you’ve gotten a whole bunch more publicity. You’re standing in the movement has grown a great deal. Do you think these people are going to regret doxing you?


The Ayatollah: Well, I’ve not gone anywhere! And you’re right in what you’re saying. I mean, one of the first things I got on the day I was doxxed, is you were contacting me, asking me if I wanted to come on. And here we are. And like I own the White Nationalist Manifesto. It’s one of the few sort of dissident books I actually own. And you were quite a formative influence in a lot of my thinking via like appearances on Millennial, and things like that. And writing on Counter Currents, and so on and so forth.


So my Telegram subscriber count has gone up about 55%. I get way more engagement now. My audience was probably, given that it was only on Odysee, my audience relative to the one Odysee exclusive I had done previously last night, was up about threefold. Some of that will drop off I suppose. Some of its just people tuning in to sort of:


“Oh! How’s he doing?”


But yeah, I’m certainly not going to be doing any less. And if I’m totally honest I’ve kind of had quite a bit of fun at the expense of the people that doxxed me. I mean, if anyone wants to go back, my last stream is on my Odysee channel now. I had a bit of fun with the intro in that.


And, you know, Dominic Kennedy and David Aaronovitch have got pride of place in there with some of their sound bites about my singing, and my impressions, and different things like that.


So again, I think a lot of it in my case as well, comes down to subversive humor. I think that’s been one of the defining traits of this iteration of the dissident Right really, has just been, we can’t take this regime on head-on. But one respect in which it’s incredibly vulnerable is its sensitivity to mockery.




Greg Johnson: Absolutely!


The Ayatollah: Oh, it’s a massive thing. Because again, it’s kind of The Power of the Powerlessness. But it is also real power. It’s got extraordinary sensitivity to mockery. And the reason for that is because the agenda they’re pursuing, and the things they have to enforce as part of that, becomes increasingly ridiculous! I’ve made the point so many times before.


Do, you know what? If you find yourself in sort of an exchange with some of the human astroturf on social media that cheer this stuff on, don’t waste your time on them. Literally go and get a photograph of Ellen Paige, now Elliott Paige, dressed like he’s, she’s going to holy communion, and say:


“Yeah, but your ideology is that this is a man!”


Like you haven’t got to do anything else. And the sensitivity to mockery is extraordinary. And it’s a massive weak point. And I mean, that’s one of the things that I do. And again, in the way they sort of questioned me, The Times, they still don’t seem to sort of understand this. How much of what we do is just like, it’s nudge, nudge, wink, wink! It’s transgressive humor.


My intro, Derrek Day, is about to say a word that ends with a hard R, and he gets cut off by a sort of a cliched comedy needle scratch. It’s all just a bit like all implied transgression, and typical British humor actually, a lot of it. But I mean, as to sort of yeah doing more, and kind of making them regret it, I’ll say this. I saw a lot of, again armchair types on Twitter, when I sort of browse Twitter a little bit after the doxxing. And a lot of people like:


“Oh yeah! He’s really in for it now! His life’s gonna be ruined!”


All of that sort of thing is kind of quieting down, because like again I’ve not gone anywhere. What are you gonna do at this stage? Like stick your tail between your legs and go:


“Oh yeah! I’m sorry! I’m sorry! I’m sorry! I was transgressive! I’m sorry I was non-compliant while being White! Yeah, I’m sorry!”


It’s a church of no salvation, isn’t it? So no. You just crack on and you say:


“Yeah, like I have heretical views in the eyes of the present order!”


Well, this is the present order that’s created the most atomized, alienated, debt-ridden, depressed, overweight, unhealthy, degenerate, societies in history! So I think if I’m getting the wrong side of them I’m doing something right. So I’ll take that as the endorsement. And I ain’t taking any backward steps. That’s all you’ve got to do. It’s as simple as that.


Greg Johnson: Absolutely! That’s wonderful news. I’m really glad to hear that! I’m very impressed. You’ve got a huge personality! And these people are going to regret bringing the spotlight to bear upon you. One of the weaknesses of the Left is they’re so incredibly smug! That they think they can just repeat our ideas. And by repeating our ideas, it refutes them.


And so they’re constantly quoting things from us that are actually very based, and very well stated, and very, very seductive. And they think that this is obviously wrong and that no sane person can take it seriously. And they’re constantly undermining themselves! Because rational people who don’t live in their little feverish bubble, when they read this they think:


“Yes! This sounds good to me. It doesn’t seem unreasonable at all.”


And they start tuning in. So it’s free publicity. Just the other day we got a phone call at the Counter-Currents office phone. It was somebody saying that they had read about us on this Southern Poverty Law Center website. And it said that we were a hate group. And they wondered if we had a youth wing that they could get involved with! [chuckling] And I just thought:


“This is hilarious! This is free advertising from the SPLC!”


The SPLC is like Yelp for haters, or dissidents. And people [chuckling] are calling our number wanting to join the youth movement, if we’ve got one. So this is how we grow. This is how we grow. They throw stuff at us and we turn it into an opportunity. And I think that ability is akin to the ability to laugh.


The Ayatollah: Yeah.


Greg Johnson: Ludovici has this little book The Secret of Laughter, which is an attempt to explain what laughter is. And I think it’s the most convincing theory about laughter that’s been put forward. Basically he says that laughter is an exhibition of one’s feeling of superiority, of fitness. It’s glorying in one’s fitness. In one’s mastery of a situation, and one’s superiority to the situation that one’s in.


And for years, and years – and I’ve been involved in the right for more than 20 years. And when I first got involved, it was full of grim, sneering, po-faced, angry, people who were psychologically in the equivalent posture of protesters who were crouched down as the police rain blows on them with their Billy clubs! They were certainly not masters of the situation by any means! They felt totally besieged! And they couldn’t laugh! Psychologically was just impossible.


And I think a huge sea change took place when – and this sort of dates from the rise of the Alt-Right as an internet movement – a huge sea change took place. I think starting in I don’t know, maybe 2011, 2012. I started seeing the two-paneled meme start circulating on social media. And some of these things are brilliant propaganda! Brilliantly humorous! There was a spirit of mockery that was coming in. And you can’t mock your enemies without feeling psychologically superior to them.


And so it was a sign that there was an underlying strength that was gathering behind dissident ideas, that we could look down on these people. They have all the power. And all the money in the world. But they’re disgusting people! They’re ridiculous people! And we could laugh at them, because they richly deserve it. They were so entitled! They didn’t take well to this at all.


It was a beautiful thing in 2015 watching libs on Twitter finally getting some talkback and some pretty brutal mockery from Unwashed, unwashed Right-wingers with strange names, and avatars. And they’ve never forgiven that, and they’ve never gotten over it. And they’re on the back foot now, psychologically. And that’s a beautiful thing.


The Ayatollah: I still don’t think, … Again look in this kind of iteration of the dissident Right, they still don’t know how to deal with other than censorship and deplatform. And we know how that can work. But it’s also bred a lot of anti-fragility. Because for all that we laugh and joke we kind of have an understanding of the stakes that the average person doesn’t.


Because again, one thing that this past sort of nine, ten, days has taught me again is the difference between actual like community participants, and activists, and just like idiot cheerleaders. Like human astro surfers I have referenced already.


But like it’s a point you’ve made often. And I just wanted to pick up on the point you made about the enemy, the regime media will publish our most incisive critiques of the present order which will resonate with normal people, or they’ll resonate with the right normal people. And they’ll just do that wholesale, because they’re tone deaf and insulated enough to think that that, on its face, is condemnation enough.


And when I was kind of drafting my responses to – he asked me about 35 questions, this bloke from The Times – I was fairly confident they would end up doing that with me.


So like obviously – the way journalism works – what you’ve got to do is try and make sure that whichever bits you read through of what you’ve read when you’re drafting it which appear like they could be the most easily kind of seized upon and used to subject you to damnation, you’ve got to bolster them as much as possible. Because they’ll try and use whichever he thinks is weakest.


On the other hand I also expected them, I did kind of expect them to use some of the most incisive critique, because of the:


“Oh my god! Wow! Just wow!”


Sort of fact. And that’s exactly what they did. I mean, this even featured in the podcast. They went to the trouble in the podcast of having the journalist read it out, put some ominous music underneath it and apply a bit of reverb to his voice. And I wonder if I could just actually read some of that out. Yeah, what they read out was, and a variation of this featured twice in my answers. And then I also provided a similar quote to the Guardian, when the Guardian picked up on it. And they said, well rather what I said. And this got read out on the podcast is:


“I reject the concept of, quote ‘racism’, end quote, outright. And I view it with nothing but contempt. The concept of, quote ‘racism’ end quote, is simply an anti-White libel and a weapon of mass psychological abuse devised and wielded to keep White people from thinking and acting in our own interests while our sovereignty, and our homelands are taken from us. I refuse to be gaslit and victimized in this way, as all people should.”


There are other things I said, I won’t get into those. But that they went with and they put similar things in their article, as well. And I mean, look I think that speaks for itself. But it’s also just the fact that like I talked about this at length on my stream last night responding to some of this. The way the present order works in terms of kind of maintaining it’s stranglehold and minimizing dissent is, I think, there three measures.


One of its first measures is, if you look at the kind of interest groups that sort of are dominant in it. One of the first things they do is try, to as great extent as possible, to make people at large oblivious to the fact that it’s them calling the shots. And it’s their agenda which is being pursued and which is implemented. That’s the first thing is to have that invisibility.


The second thing is obviously in order to mitigate the backlash against the effects of their agendas. If you look at like immigration and demographic atrocities and all the consequences of the immigration agenda. They have to induce a kind of demoralization, and guilt, and kind of like a state of paralysis among White people. And obviously central to that is the whole canard of racism. It’s the pathologization of just normal behavior among White people where race is concerned, in group preference, pattern recognition, bias toward one’s own people. And so on and so forth. And the desire for homogeneous communities and all the rest of it.




However, as successful as those two measures are with the vast majority of people, they’re never gonna work entirely. And if they’re never gonna work entirely, you’ve got a problem. Because what comes from the people on whom they aren’t effective is very contagious! Because that ultimately is basically, what you’re dealing with there is people that have returned to their instincts. It’s people that have deprogrammed themselves, or just never particularly kind of compliant in the first place.


And what they then have to do there is to manipulate the population at large into perceiving a threat to the present order, as a threat to them. So they’ll present, … I mean, Jonathan Greenblatt was on something recently over there where he was sort of saying like:


“White supremacist hate is the tornado that’s going to tear through your house, tear through your community, …!”


And whatever you think, no! It’s not! It’s going to be a problem for people like the ADL, that’s what it is. Of course, what they’re going to do is then sort of imbue that, … You’ve got a maniacal contingent who are small in number. What they then have to do is that the population under their yoke have to be imbued with the threat recognition triggers. And so on. And the threat perception of the people ruling over them. So that they will kind of police themselves.


So that you get a White person stick their head above the parapet and say heretical things about race as far as the present order is concerned, then it’s like:


“Oh! All hands on deck to deal with this person!”


And the Agent Smith effect kicks in. That’s what they have to do. And when you look at The Times, for example, they’re obviously quite confident that reading out my words with a bit of ominous music over them is gonna have the desired effect with most of their readers. I’m all right with that, because there’ll be a cohort of them you think:


“This is ridiculous! Because everything he’s saying is absolutely right!”


And the ones that don’t, they’re like:


“Oh yeah! Scary! We’ve got to stamp these people out! They need to go to jail!”


Those people, look they’ve not got a lot of agency anyway. So they can stay on the sidelines. And they can cheer, and whoop, and boo. There’s going to be another cohort of people who are increasingly fed up with the conditions they’re forced to live in. And they will look at that kind of thing and think:


“That’s exactly right. That’s exactly what they’re doing to us. And I’m sick of this! And I’m not putting up with it anymore!”


So, I’m fine with them doing what they do. There you are! And, as you say, they will do that time and again.:


“Oh my god! Wow! Just wow! Isn’t this outrageous!”


No. It’s exactly how White people would feel, if they’d not been psychologically abused for generations! That’s all it is! That’s what we are.




Greg Johnson: That particular quote was something that I encountered in the discussion of your dox. And I said:


“This is great! This is excellent!”


So yeah, they definitely work like plague rats sometimes to spread our viruses around, our virulent ideas! And they don’t realize what they’re doing. They can’t help themselves. And I think that’s one of the things that is going to help us win. Ultimately rational self-interest is not something you can really count on.


It was counting on rational self-interest that led the frog to let the scorpion crawl on his back. There’s a more powerful force than that, rational self-interest, and that’s identity. And ultimately these people can’t help being who they are. And being who they are, I’m afraid entails, self-destructive behavior. They’ll harm many other people before they’re destroyed themselves. But they are behaving self-destructively, at this point. And that plays into our hands.


I have another question here. It is from Phil. Phil sends 10 US dollars. Thank you:


“The response to the Queen’s death seems to have exposed persistent class divisions within England. How does Tollah think Derrek Day would respond to the Queen’s death?”


There’s also a lot of interesting responses to the Queen’s death from communities of color. And I think that’s an enormously teachable moment for our movement. But what are your thoughts on the Queen’s death? Condolences, by the way, for the loss of your Queen.


The Ayatollah: Yeah. I mean, as to what Derrek Day would think of the Queen’s death, it’s a hard question to answer. I mean, I’ve got to be honest. I don’t know enough about Derrek Day. I would imagine he was probably quite sort of traditional in that regard. But that’s entirely speculative on my part. I mean, the National Front were obviously they kind of had some sort of more Left positions on economics. But that again that wouldn’t have precluded them from kind of being traditionalists, or from any kind of like just innate Right leaning tendency towards tradition. And so on, and so forth.


I mean, I as to what I’ve kind of made of it. I mean, certainly what you say about basically privileged foreigners shooting their mouths off, and kind of basically airing what is really racial grievance, that can only be a good thing for us.


Look, honestly as British nationalists, we’ve got our own reasons. And this has been expressed, you know, by various people. I mean, there’s been some criticism of it being done with a lack of tact given the circumstances. But we’ve got our own reasons to, how do I put it? I have certain resentments towards the inaction and the complicity of the Monarchy as an institution.


Because ultimately, have they spoken up while these kind of atrocities have been inflicted upon us? No. They’ve generally towed the line. Like, did I expect Queen Elizabeth II to kind of lead [chuckling] the military against the government? Like possibly not. But I mean, by the same measure, the military swear allegiance to the monarch. They do swear allegiance to the monarch.


But it’s far beyond that. I mean if you look at monarchy as an institution. I mean, what we’ve got now, you’re kind of going back to what we had with the Glorious Revolution, which was bankrolled from Amsterdam, pretty much. By people who weren’t actually Dutch. I’ll leave that there. You can probably figure out the rest yourself. If you don’t already know it. But with William and Mary, and whatever.


But I talked about this on my stream last night. And I have to be honest, and this may disappoint some people. But I suppose I’m a bit of a philistine. But I didn’t feel a lot in the wake of the passing of Queen Elizabeth the II. Just on the basis that like in all of my life, and I’m 37. But in all of my life I’ve never felt much sort of in affinity with monarchy, and with sort of traditional institutions in that way.


Like my sort of, I’ve never been an innately kind of wildly patriotic person. I’ve just been increasingly angered by the encroachments and attacks against us as White people, in our own countries I wasn’t like massively traditionalist, or patriotic, if I’m totally honest about it.


However, to the extent that I was, the things that took greatest pride in as a Briton, was kind of like our humor, and things like the SAS, [chuckling] or whatever! Being autistic literally, that sort of stuff fascinated me.


But when it comes to the Monarchy. I mean, my overwhelming thoughts on it are, … Just there’s something quite dystopian about seeing all of this kind of protocol and ceremony now for the passing of Queen Elizabeth II, and the crowning of Charles III, as he’s gonna be known. I mean, I remember reading something years ago where Charles was possibly gonna take a different title as king in the way that Joseph Ratzinger was Benedict the 16th when he was Pope, and whatever. But like not so he’s Charles III.


But I felt a certain emptiness and kind of like there’s something, yeah kind of anachronistic, which is no reflection on the ceremony. And all that the old, centuries-old kind of protocols and traditions. It’s just that this society around it has changed so much! There’s something quite jarring about it.


You’ve got all this ceremony and protocol and everything else that we’re seeing now. The BBC web page has changed it’s color scheme and everything. And look at how much has changed since. I mean, the last time, it’s not in live in memory for very many people at all. The last time we went through all of this was 1952. But and it’s been an era of such change.


Tucker Carlson had it right in his segment of the night. It ended up being a bit of a eulogy for the British Empire. But he kind of said, it’s such an obvious thing to say. But she was born into one world and she died in another world. She was coronated in one world, and died in another.


It’s also that kind of indifference I have. It’s also a natural consequence of the dissident world view. Because we can’t really look at it and say that the Monarchy have kind of been there, and kept our end up, and spoke up for us, I’m sorry to say it.


And I suppose they’re a neutered institution in that regard in our system. But they’ve made a lot of the wrong noises. And Queen Elizabeth II wasn’t an exception in that regard. And, as I said. I think it’s a natural consequence of when you live under the [word unclear] of what is fundamentally a hostile regime, which denigrates everything that matters, and inflicts humiliation on your society, everything gets spoiled!


I mean, I’m a bit of a prole! I think an example of it for me was I used to support the England football team, even as recently as 2018, when a lot of the players, like half the players in the team were like black, or half black. But they most of them seem like all right enough lads, so I could still support them.


That just was ruined forever for me when after all the George Floyd stuff in the European championships that took place last summer, they became weaponized for very aggressive anti-White, propaganda and taking the knee, and regurgitating loads of anti-White platitudes, and making all the right noises! And I just turned completely against it!


The Times wrote about that extensively in my case actually. The second article they did focused in no small part upon how like:


“Oh! Look at this! Look at how he rejoiced when the diverse England team were beaten!”


When they lost the European championship final, when the three black players missed penalties in the penalty shootout against Italy.


But it’s that there’s something really jarring, and kind of anachronistic about the whole thing when the society around us, like the way people present themselves. I mean, the demographics being the main thing. The fact that we’re a minority in most of the major cities, the way people present themselves, the way people live, is just so odds with the kind of tradition that we’re seeing enacted.


Sorry, a bit of a meandering answer.




Greg Johnson: No. I think it’s a good answer. And I do think that things are really jarring.


The Ayatollah: Yeah.


Greg Johnson: And in that tweet I said it is an occasion I think for people to reflect on what’s happened during the course of her life. And if you think about it for five minutes, it’s an astonishing decline of the British Empire, and the homeland itself. And you have to think what’s happened here? Why did this happen? How did this happen? Maybe this can be changed? I do hope it’s an occasion for that kind of reflection.


Because one of the things that monarchy does is it creates a sense of continuity. A sort of superficial but quite apparent continuity. The Queen has literally been the Queen my entire life. And I’ve always been sort of an Anglophile American, sort of culturally half Canadian. So I remember being a lot of time in Canada and seeing her on the currency, [chuckling] and she being the head of state, and things like that.


And so she’s literally been the Queen my entire life. And the entire lifetimes of many, many people who are alive today. And it is a kind of extraordinary thing when somebody who’s been around that long dies, and you take stock of the changes that have happened.


The Ayatollah: Another thing that occurs to me in that. I mean, as you say, first of all, that’s one of these things which can only be a net win, is the fact that people have that kind of almost, it’s not an opportunity that there’s an inclination perhaps to actually reflect on:


“Look at how different the world was 70 years ago, when she sort of acceded to the throne.”


But it’s also the fact that you’ve got to understand the base psychology of average people. Elizabeth II like kowtowed to the anti-White agenda, which she did in certain instances, saying how wonderful diversity was, and condemning that the BNP for being divisive, or whatever – the British National Party for any non-domestic listeners. People kind of would overlook it, because, well, that’s just the way it is.


The same way that they kind of do with the Conservative Party, the nominally Right-wing party, they kind of get away with a lot. Because well, that’s what Right-wing politics is. It’s like:


“Oh, wasn’t it wonderful we’ve got no White men in the cabinet now!”


But with it being Charles coming in now, who divides opinion a little bit. It’s like there will actually be more scrutiny among people at large, if, as he has extensively, if he’s kowtowing to, some people would call it the woke agenda, or just anti-Whiteness, or whatever. That will get more scrutiny, because there’s not that just normality bias and the continuity. He’s a new monarch, isn’t he? So yeah. We’ll see on that, I suppose.


Greg Johnson: We have a question here from Pure Nomad in the chat. He’s got the Oswald Mosley lightning bolt [chuckling] in his avatar:


“Greg, I’d be curious what Tollah thinks about being under a king now. And should we try to keep the old school BUF [British Union of Fascists] mantra for ‘King and Country’?”


So what do you think it’s going to be like? Do you think there’s going to be a slight psychological change having a King, rather than a Queen?


The Ayatollah: Not nearly as much as there would be in a healthier age, because just the way that masculinity’s been denigrated. I mean, I did comment upon this briefly on my stream last night, saying that:


“Like it is nice now that it will be ‘God Save the King’.”


I mean, I’ve never been a fan of our national anthem. I’ve never been that much of a monarchist, if I’m totally honest. I’ve not re-examined that in any great detail, because it’s like, well, in the world in which we live, again, it’s another institution which ultimately at best does nothing for us, to be totally honest about it.


In that regard, I mean, like for King and Country, no. I don’t think we could do that with any sincerity, because I can’t imagine Charles III is gonna kind of speak up for us. He’s unlikely to be working on our behalf.


So ultimately really the greater thing we actually need to do in terms of how we sort of outreach, is make it clear to people that like, yeah all of your institutions. I mean, assuming this continues to be the case with monarchy, it’s much more aggressively the case with the government, of course. And our actual kind of institutions of governance and all the rest of it, and media and that. Make it clear just how hostile all this is to the interests of people at large. Making that clear to them.


So I actually, I take the view of well, we don’t own monarchy, or anything else, anything! Ultimately we’re a group of people with interest. And a lot of the processes which have put us in the plight we’re in that’s come from fecklessness at the top.


Go back far enough and a lot of it comes from, obviously it’s subversion from outside. But it’s a weak attitude toward that, and it’s fecklessness from the top. And it’s a willingness to sort of throw people, to throw the actual backbone of the country under the bus! It’s a tale as old as time unfortunately.


You could go and listen to like Dr Andrew Joyce, or whoever, talking about the history of well a certain foreign group in Europe. And it’s not a new thing to sort of have people with a certain obligation to those with less power, ultimately betray them. So I don’t know about bringing back “For King and Country”, not any time soon really.


We’ve got to make it about our interests as a people. And have a certain healthy level of selfishness I would say. But I mean, psychologically the thing of having a King, I prefer it in that regard. But I would prefer it a lot more if we had somebody who was kind of actually masculine and would speak up for our interest. I think we’re a long way off that. I think other things have got to happen before we get to that. And I think a lot of that is beyond our control!


Greg Johnson: I think monarchies are at best sort of simulacra of something that’s a healthy social order. That they do cultivate this idea of noblesse oblige. And the British aristocracy, for a very long time, really was a warrior aristocracy. They really did believe in public service, and risking their lives for the commonweal, and things like. That it was astonishing how these people rushed off in the First World War too defend the nation, and died in huge numbers.


There are certain things that are caught up with monarchy and aristocracy that are of objective value. But for the most part, they’re just sort of an empty symbol of that, those values, and that social hierarchy. And I think that, I guess I would rather have the substance with the symbols. But I certainly don’t want to do away with the symbolism altogether.


Sam Dixon is a friend of mine. And he was talking about how his father said that:


“One of the best arguments for monarchy is that you have the same person who is born, born for the job, as the head of state, and they’re on the currency, and their pictures are in their post office, and they’re receiving ambassadors, and receiving their credentials, and all this other stuff, instead of some greasy, slimy, politician, doing the same thing!”


And the monarchs keep out the politicians from the very top offices in society, the head of state. And it’s actually good, I think it’s actually good to keep those bastards down at least in one position in a society, which is head of state. Which is hereditary.


Which is not elected, and which, at least potentially, can have a person who, you know, inherit the office who does not go along with the whole establishment. Or is not spending their time pressing the flesh and glad handling, and making dirty back room deals, and stuff like that, like politicians definitely do. But I do like the idea. But at least it keeps the politicians off the currency! And from the most important ceremonial roles in a society.


We’re over our time. But I’m enjoying this. I want to see if there are any more questions from Entropy also folks, if you want to throw your Dlive tokens our way, I would very much appreciate that you can send diamonds, lemons, ninja genies, etc.


Serena JB is just donated three ice creams. Thank you very much. Some people would like to hear you do some impressions. I asked what sort of impressions they would like. I’m gonna begin with my own preferred impression. Can you do a Millennial Woes for us?


The Ayatollah: Yes.


“I think the thing I have to integrate is just a drag on a cigarette. So I believe he’s actually given up. I think he vapes now.”


Greg Johnson: He vapes, yeah.


The Ayatollah:


“I mean, it’s amazing. It’s been a wee while since I’ve seen Woes, but you go back to about 2015 and there’d be a lot of videos on the channel beginning with thunder and lightning.” And then:


“Hello! I wanted to follow up for a wee while on the Rotherham scandal.”


55 minutes later. And then it’s like:


“And where does that leave us, the White British? Atomized, fucking individuals! I’ll leave it at that.”


Greg Johnson: Yeah, that’s good, very good.


The Ayatollah: Yeah, it’s a difficult one, because he’s Scottish. But yeah.


Greg Johnson: I know but you got the cadence right, and the vocabulary, and everything. That’s great.


N-word Snowden writes in with three US dollars. And just the comment:


“The dreaded n-word!”


Well, welcome N-word. Thank you very much.


JR has written in with 15 Great Britain pounds, which is still significant:


“What does Greg think of me getting a month’s detention for lip noticing when I was eight? And can we hear Kermit do body form please?”


Okay. Well, this is inside stuff. But maybe you can help me out on this. What is “Kermit do body form”?


The Ayatollah: These people really, they never fail to let me down. Kermit doing body form is basically, … And again this exposes how ridiculous The Times unmasking of me was.


There became a phenomenon of asking me to sing advert jingles in the style of Kermit, in the voice of Kermit the Frog, which it doesn’t even do particularly well. And one of them was there was a very famous, I think in the late 80s, early 90s, at Body Form, who make sanitary products for women, of all things, in this country. They had like a real kind of 80s rock advert jingle. It was almost like, imagine rock set, but way more aggressive, that kind of thing. So like:


“Whoa Body Form for you!”


And then the lip noticing thing, basically, yeah JR is somebody I do talk to quite a bit. I think he’s autistic like me. And I think basically was a little bit too fascinated by the lips of a melanated classmate as a young man, and got detention for it.


Greg Johnson: Ahhh, okay. Now, I understand.


The Ayatollah: You get an idea of the sort of rabble that turn up for my streams now, don’t you? But there we are.


Greg Johnson: Well, we have a very good audience tonight and I very much appreciate it. I like bringing you to my audience. And I know that your audience is coming over here. Maybe for the first time. And so I feel like this is the rising tide is floating both of our boats here. And I think that’s the way that we win. That’s a good model.


So Gaddius writes in again with 10 US dollars. Thank you. AMA, oh this is for the later part of the show, on the Great Replacement. So let’s do a couple more impressions if you don’t mind! Somebody wants you to do Mark Collett. And another person wants to hear your Nigel Farage.


The Ayatollah: I’m gonna have to decline on Farage. I can’t do Farage, I’m afraid I just can’t. If I can’t do an impression, I will tell you. I mean. So I’m very sorry about that.


Regarding regarding Collett:


“You see, I get asked for this one a lot. And the thing with doing an impression of Mark Collett, is that essentially what you’ve got to understand, is that there are certain vowel sounds that he really emphasizes! Let me give you an example. If Mark Collett talks about these people, these people are really in for it! Because I will tell you something now! Believe me! These people, if they think they’re going to scare us away by doxing us, … Let me tell you something my friend, they’ve got another thing coming?”


Something like that. It wasn’t one of the better ones,


Greg Johnson: No, the Collett one is good!


The Ayatollah: The Collett impression’s not as good as people think it is, if I’m honest. But that’s my view of it anyway.


Greg Johnson: No, no. I think that’s very, very good. I very much appreciate that.


So folks, we’re gonna wrap up here. But if there are any more last-minute questions, comments. And, of course, impressions, that you would like to do, that would be great. I’m just going to hit refresh at Entropy, and see if anybody else has chimed in.


The Ayatollah: Top tip, by the way, the best impressions of that I do are generally Tyson Fury, the heavyweight champion, and Big John Fury, his dad. Those are my best two, in my opinion, anyway. But there we go.


Greg Johnson: Well, let’s end with those, then. I would very much enjoy those. I wish Jim Goad were in the chat. Because I think he would very much appreciate these.


The Ayatollah: Is he a Fury fan, is he?


Greg Johnson: I think he’s a Fury fan. Yeah.


The Ayatollah: :


“Well, the funny thing with Tyson Fury is he actually sounded quite different when he was younger. And I think eventually he got hit in the throat in sparing, so goes the story, or more likely he abused his body for that long quuqu eventually when he made his comeback he basically sounded like this. But, because he’s a traveler, the accent’s quite niche. And there’s not that many people that can do it very well. But there’s a very amusing video online of Tyson, well there’s one where he said some things that he got in a lot of trouble for. But there’s another, where he’s obviously on a strict training diet and he’s talking about all his favorite chocolate bars. It was before he fought Deontay Wilder the second time, the big tosser. And he’s just sat there saying, ‘who remembers the Cadbury’s Fuse? You don’t remember that? Purple wrapper with yellow writing. Tell you what I like, I like chicken Kiev sandwich, with mayonnaise, and what’s its [word unclear] in it. What would you rather have two Chumps, or a Fredo?’.”


And it’s just two minutes of Tyson Fury, just with like food tourettes! He’s a hell of a character. I mean, for basically for a fat bald bloke to be heavyweight champion of the world. A guy who’s been in trouble for kind of like naming certain interest groups. He features in one of my intros as well. Yeah he’s incredible! He’s incredible!


Greg Johnson: Well, I’ve really enjoyed this. And I know why people enjoy your streams. And I know why people come to you for, a I don’t know, just a good feeling, and enhanced mental health in a crazed society. And I really would love to have you come back. So thank you so much for coming on. And thank you so much for doing what you’re doing and continuing to do what you’re doing. And making these bastards regret what they’ve done to you, or they’ve tried to you!


The more people who bounce back from this and become bigger, stronger, forces, the sooner we’re going to win. And I’m certain that we’re going to win!


The Ayatollah: Well, thank you very much. It’s very kind of you to say all that. I mean, I was honored to be asked on. As I say you were quite a formative influence on me, sort of 2017, 2018. So when I got the invitation I was delighted. So yeah, thanks for that doxxing, because I wouldn’t have had it otherwise. So yeah, that’s the first win.


But I mean, ultimately look, I’ve got a community behind me. These people I think by and large, they kind of haven’t. And they define themselves in a very negative way. So they don’t have the same impetus that we have. And that honestly makes all the difference. I owe a great deal to the British nationalist community really. Because when you’re in the eye the storm and the subject of massive scrutiny, when you’ve got literally hundreds of people offering you their support, it makes all the difference.


And also, you know, internationally. People like yourself, like Frodi, people all over. Like Rich, like Gladius makes all the difference in the world. And particularly again, when you get invited onto the big shows like this. So yeah, I’d love to come on again, certainly. Thank you.


Greg Johnson: Oh yeah. Well, we will definitely have you back. You have a much bigger audience than we do, honestly. We’re kind of niche. We more have an audience of readers, than live streamers, and podcast listeners. Although some thousands of people do listen to a podcast during it’s lifetime.


Because this will come up on Counter-Currents as a podcast next week. And I think we have a older school group of people who download and listen to things, and don’t do the live streaming as much. So anyway. It’s been a real pleasure. We’ll definitely have you back. Thank you for everything that you’re doing. And I want to switch now to doing a AMA..


But is there anything you’d like just to say at the very end, to wrap up? How do people follow your work? How do people support your work?


The Ayatollah: Well, thank you once again for having me on. Thank you to the audience, for your hospitality, and for your kind words. I’ve been trying to keep an eye on the chat. I’ve not got the ideal set up at the moment. So it’s been difficult for me to switch between the chats and everything. But I mean.


Yeah, obviously my links, … Greg’s very generously put my links across the sort of bar at the bottom. So I mean, I can still put him in the chat on Odysee. But definitely follow me on Odysee. That’s the place for it. And otherwise Telegram. Those are my main two platforms. I have got Gab. I don’t use a great deal. I’ve got Dlive, as well. I’ve never actually used Dlive.


And I’ve got BitChute but sadly BitChute was a great idea in the wrong country. And was ultimately neutered by pressure from a certain group of people, via Ofcom. Great idea in the worst possible country! Which just happens to be the one that I live in!


But necessity is the mother invention. So we crack on. But yeah. Thank you very much for having me. My links have gone in the chat on YouTube. I’ll put them on Dlive as well.


Greg Johnson: Good. Right now I’m looking at the Ayatollah’s Telegram. And there are 2,042 subscribers. Let’s get that number up people! Let’s boost that number considerably! He’s producing great commentary. And everybody should be making making a space in their Telegram feed for the Ayatollah. So thank you so much. And we will definitely have you back in the future.


The Ayatollah: Thank you. Good night. Well, good afternoon in your case, cheers.


Greg Johnson: Okay bye-bye.










Counter Current Comments



(As of Sep 16, 2022)


James KirkpatrickSeptember 12, 2022 at 8:47 am
This was a highly enjoyable episode, and The Ayatolla’s impressions of Morgoth, Woes, and Collett were uncanny!

Dr ExCathedraSeptember 12, 2022 at 11:21 am
Impressive and articulate guy.

BernieSeptember 12, 2022 at 6:07 pm
Seems like a solid guy. We should all give him a follow at least.

PapinianSeptember 12, 2022 at 11:24 pm
I listened to this on the podcast yesterday. As others have said, he’s very impressive.
Despite being British and living in the UK, I wasn’t aware of him and I had missed the doxxing because I gave up reading the mainstream media years ago. I will definitely make the effort to check out his material.

Spam HoustonSeptember 14, 2022 at 10:05 pm
Is he still dating the Indian girl?




See Also









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Dionne Moller – My Patriotic Alternative Conference Speech — Spring 2020 — Transcript



Laura Towler – We Were Never Asked – Oct 24, 2019 — Transcript

Laura Towler – The Fate of English Schools – Jul 26, 2020 — Transcript

Rikki Doolan vs Laura Towler – British Lives Matter Live Debate – Aug 6, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – Pathological Altruism and the Invasion of Britain – Aug 16, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – Are We The Bad Guys? Featuring Mark Collett, The Ayatollah and Horus – Aug 24, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – Khan’s Plans to Diversify London – Sep 20, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – A Personal Update – Sep 27, 2020 — Transcript

Mark Collett – Patriotic Alternative Autumn Update with Laura – Oct 2, 2020 — Transcript

Laura Towler – When the Mask Slips – Feb 17, 2021 — Transcript




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